Cavs and Knicks Summer Summit with Andrew Claudio

Justin is joined by Andrew Claudio of Knicks Film School to discuss how the Cavs and Knicks stack up after their offseason moves. Discussing some of their biggest questions for one another, thoughts on additions, and where both teams fit within the Eastern Conference and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what carl slam it
oh arle left wing reball perfect, arlop beg to have
it block the shot at the rim? How with the
left hand and a fowl. Welcome to the Chase Doown Podcast,
part of the kaz Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rohan.
The Chasedown is presented by Fubo TV. Watch over one

(00:21):
hundred channels of live sports and TV for alf. The
cost of cable is no contract and no commitment. Try
for free at FuboTV dot com. No contract, no commitment,
and no Carter Rodriguez on today's episode, he's away for work.
But you know what we bring in the heat. We
were bringing in a special guest for today's podcast, but
before I get to him, I guess we have to
do a little bit of housekeeping first. A little bit

(00:43):
of Calves news. Ricky Rubio is taking an indefinite leave
from his professional basketball career to focus on his mental health.
I'm blown away by how long Ricky's been in the league.
He's been playing, obviously in the NBA for a long time.
He's been playing professionally since he was a teenager. I
think him stepping away to focus on his mental health

(01:04):
is incredibly brave, and obviously we'll find out more details
when the time comes, but I'm wishing him all the
best in his recovery and hopefully this time gives him
the clarity that he's looking for, and we'll see what
happens what that means for the Cavs next season. But
right now, his mental health is by far the most

(01:25):
important thing. Other little bit of housekeeping, no Carter means
no sixty seconds of Sea Bears. He's not here to
produce it, and unfortunately that season is over. The Sea
Bears lost at home versus Edmonton. No more sixty seconds
of Sea Bears. My heart's a little bit broken, my
voice is still a little bit sore as we're doing
the housekeeping because at back to back Bomber and Sea

(01:45):
Bears games Winnipeg, for some reason, they went one in
three versus Edmonton this year, a team that they were
better than all season, they just seem to struggle against
them for some reason. And on a related note, Andrew
Claudio is here from Nick's Film School to talk about
the New York Knicks. Andrew, how you doing, buddy?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Something about you and I collaborating for podcasts and your
team's being eliminated from playoff contention justin I'm sorry that
it keeps happening, but I'm honored to be joining you
on this fine summer afternoon afternoon evening, we'll call it.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
We got to stop meeting like this. This is absolutely unacceptable.
Neither of our teams want to ring last year, but
you yourself added a ring. My friend, congratulations on getting married.
We talked a little bit before we started recording, but
I'm stoked for you. We also talked a little bit
about how the word fiance is just the worst way
to introduce people. I hated that kind of lingering In

(02:40):
between period, I just said girlfriend because fiance opens up
too many questions. So congratulations on being able to say wife.
That's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you. My wife and I are both happy we
don't have to say fiance anymore. And like again, there's
no uniqueness to saying fiance because we're both fiance. It always,
like you said, opens up. The question is the follow
up is like, oh, fiance, how's wedding planning going? It's awful.
I'm asking everybody, please, I've asking about I Thank you
for the well wishes. We are very happy and very

(03:10):
excited and to bring this back to basketball. Donovan not
Donovan Mitchell. Jalen Brunson got married this offseason, so he
also got himself a ring. Isaiah Hartenstein on the Knicks
got a ring with his wedding.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
So got engaged.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Congratulated a someone a ring, So congrat Jared Allen. So
the love is in the air, even if it doesn't
translate to the NBA playoffs, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Absolutely, So I skipped over where you're from, uh, just
to get that punch line in. But just in case
people don't know, Next Film School part of the Blue
Wire Network. You guys do terrific work. You were big
help as we were doing our preview podcast for the
next Calve series, which obviously didn't go the Calves way.

(03:56):
It's probably fitting that Carter isn't here to go live
where we're just kind of sweeping this one under the
rug as we do the team previous. But I'm excited
to talk about this with you and I want to
know how do you feel about the next run in totality,
because obviously that winning over the Calves was a big,
big win, I think in my eyes at least from
an outsider, that seemed like it made the entire postseason

(04:20):
a win. But I'm a little bit curious just because
I didn't talk to you after the heat loss and
just want to know it as time has passed, kind
of how do you feel about how the next season
wrapped up?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, first of all, I gotta ask a question that's
Carter related. So you said out he's out of town
for work. When will he be back?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
He's out of the country, man the country. Yoh yeah,
he's on the other side of the world.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
So he won't be back in five Because I heard
he was a big fan of being done in five.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I've heard that as well. It might actually be five days.
You might have landed that perfectly. If not, you know what,
he deserves a little bit of slander.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
They let him have love you, Carter. So it's funny.
There's multiple perspective and how the Knicks playoff season playoff
run went. I lean more positive in how I was.
We talked about it during the preview pods, how respectful
I was of the Cavs and how great they were

(05:16):
during the regular season. How I was cautiously picking Knicks
in six that I thought Nixon seven, that like, the
only way I could see them winning was them getting
it back to a game seven Nixon six, because I'm
remembering they at home court. They'd have to win it
at home at MSG in game six, and then the
way the series went, it was like, Oh my gosh,

(05:36):
Mitche Robinson's a monster. This this possession battle that they won,
that they've been this this game that they've been playing
all season. It's working, and Josh Hart is a force,
and you know, Jalen Brunson is once again having his
way in a in an offense or I guess the
defense that has schemed against him with with Donovan Mitchell.
We could talk about the Isaac Accorro thing, which is

(05:57):
one of my questions that I have. But I I
look at those those five games against the Cavs, specifically
the four that they won as an overall positive look.
I it might sound weird to say this, but just
being happy that you're there is a real thing that
Knicks fans have to at least I personally have. And

(06:18):
I look at the fact that they hadn't made it
to the second round since Carmelo Anthony, And when I
said Carmelo Anthony, I mean twenty thirteen Carmelo Anthony, and
for a CALVS fan that has seen Lebron in multiple
trips to the finals and playoff series wins are may
or may not be taken for granted. I personally chose

(06:38):
not to take the Cavs series for granted that for
half the playoffs it was outstanding and it should be
all gravy no matter what happened. You come into the
Miami Heat Series, where some lineup decisions were made, some
poor performances from Julius Randall, as well as a missed
game from Julius Randall, him getting hurt against the Calves

(06:58):
in Game five, the falling on landing on Karaslavert's ankle,
I think had a lingering effect and he still played
through it. There's been more. There's been more that's come
out about Randall and his ankle, that it prevented him
from maybe being one hundred percent, which as a result,
prevented him from giving one hundred percent. So I don't
want to say that the Heat Series is it doesn't

(07:22):
sting that I thought there's like a version of that
series that the Knicks could have won. Having said that,
I can't I personally cannot look at the way the
playoffs went for the Knicks, especially where I was when
the season started, and say that they didn't exceed my
expectations and get to a point where I'm just grateful
that they made into the second round. But now that

(07:42):
you've had a little bit of success, you have to
to move forward. So that's where that's where I went
into this offseason and where I'll probably going into next
season as well.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I feel like in a lot of ways, the
nixt basically stole the postseason that we expected for the Cavs.
Like we we thought, you know, you'd go out, you'd
win the first round, and then the second round would
that series where maybe the inexperience, not being ready for
the physicality of the playoffs, that sort of stuff, that's
where it would really kind of come through, and that's

(08:11):
where a lot of the weaknesses would be exposed with
this roster and we'd have to kind of re evaluate.
But obviously that came around early. I think obviously the
Knicks deserve a lot of credit. I know in our
post series pod, we were giving them credit for just
you know, playing like the better team throughout. They had
an identity and a plan of attack and didn't deviate

(08:32):
from that. And I still feel like, even though they
didn't the casting get as far as we expected, we're
still I still ramp up the expectations the same way
that I would if they made the second round and
came up short, if the shortcomings came in that round.
I think what the loss to the next showed is

(08:53):
that the floors maybe a little bit lower than we expected,
that there might be more of a growing learning curve
for Evan Mobley in the young guys on this roster
then we would have anticipated, because the drop off in
their play was just so staggering from even where they
were at in the regular season and Mobile in particular.
But I really do think that you still have to

(09:16):
keep those expectations high. You still have to really hold
yourself to that kind of championship standard, because that's why
you went out and you made that move for Donovan
Mitchell not to win last year and I don't think
even to win this year, but to show that you
are on that path, and that's going to be their
best path to you know, convincing Donovd Mitchell to sign
an extension when that day comes is by showing them

(09:38):
that hey, this is your best chance to win a
championship or we are on a valid championship path. And
I'm really happy with how the Kavs offseason has gone
as well. I think they've taken a lot of the
right lessons from that postseason. But before we get into that,
I'm curious how you feel about the Knicks offseason because
I personally love the and Dante DiVincenzo for the Knicks.

(10:01):
I thought that was a really, really savvy mood. I
think the Knicks are still which is one of the
things we talked about before the series. I think the
Knicks are really well primed for both sustainable success and
to make a consolidation trade at some point in the
near future. But the one part of the off season
I was a little surprised about was, you know, letting
Obie Topping go basically as kind of a salary dump.

(10:25):
How do you feel overall and what's kind of the
mood for Knicks fans of how they've approached the off
season at this point.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Oh, the mood, the vibes, as many would call it.
Let's start with Obie because there is a portion of
the Knicks fan base and maybe part of it that
thinks that he was not not necessarily treated unfairly but
just got a raw deal from the time he got drafted.

(10:52):
Part of it was kind of out of his control
in the sense that he was brought here to replace
Julius Randall beyond the team be his backup until Julius
Randall got traded and Julius Randall turned into an All
NBA player and the Knicks had to ride that success.
I don't blame them for choosing to ride the Julius
Randall train. Will the postseason be damned? I I understand

(11:16):
why the Knicks chose Randall over Obi, especially when just
the fit with the head coach. You would also then
have to choose Obi over the head coach. And I
hadn't seen enough from Obi to warrant the like throw
out the entire philosophy that Jalen Brunson seems to thrive with,
Josh Hart seems to thrive with, all these other players

(11:37):
seem to thrive with. To make it work with this
player like Obi Toppin that thrives in transition and you know,
a faster paced offense, So I think it's perfect for Indiana.
I hinted at this one time when I was with
you that the CIA influence is strong with the Knicks.
Obi Toppins agent Sam Rose is Leon Rose's son, and

(12:01):
I think they did him a favor and said, listen,
you're you got one year left before you hit restricted
free agency or a qualifying offer. Uh, go to Indiana.
You'll get minutes there. They found a good landing spot
for him. You could be in transition with Tyrese Haliburton,
and Haliburton spoke glowingly at Team USA, apparently that he's

(12:21):
looking forward to seeing what Obi Topping is. I'm not
a believer that the Knicks traded an all star, which
there is a portion of right like there's a portion
of the next world that thinks, oh no, it's please.
I'm glad someone else sees it that. I do think
they traded like a quality rotation piece. I do think
there's more that he can offer than what was warranted

(12:43):
in the Tibbs system. However, I'm not not a hater
of the TIBs system completely, and I think that's where
to transition into de Vincenzo. What they were asking of
Obi Topping, Dante DiVincenzo will do perfectly. You know, you
shift Josh Hart to the backup four minutes, which if
Julius Randall is healthy, is like twelve to thirteen minutes

(13:03):
a game. Maybe maybe less than that if Randa wants
to play thirty thirty thirty nine to forty minutes a
certain night. And then Devincenzo is just he spaces the
floor perfectly, which is that's what they were using Oba
as a corner to corner floor spacer. You look at
some of his numbers and where he was a consistent

(13:23):
three point shooter from he's lights out in the bottom
right corner, which it's funny the Nicks had the league
leader in three point percentage from the opposite corner in
Quinton Grimes, and then they have Devincenzo on the other side,
which I think that could actually be a deadly weapon
if you have the best possible three point shooter from
both corners on your team. So I think it's a

(13:45):
win for the Knicks what they did in upgrading as
far as that specific skill set of a shooter, and
I think Obi Toapin is gonna flourish in Indiana. I
think this actually is a win win for both sides.
It stinks that it didn't work out here. I am
with any Knicks fan that's sad that got invested in
Obi topping in some of his highlight reel plays. But

(14:07):
I do think in the long run, the Knicks got
better as a result of those specific two moves. You know.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I always felt like the Knicks we're kind of
misusing Obi, like they miscast him as just kind of
a spot up shooter instead of someone that can get
downhill right. And I think that I agree with you.
I think the fit with the Indiana is fantastic. It
just it surprised me a little bit. But you know,
sometimes you do those type of moves right where there's

(14:32):
a bit of a roster crunch, you do a favor
you expected to pay dividends down the road. As you said,
it opens up opportunities. The one point, I don't know
if pushbacks even the right word, But the one thing
I want to get clarification on is as much as
I love the addition to Dante DiVincenzo, I don't know
if you can just say, Okay, well, Josh Hart is
going to take Obi's minutes. I think you can certainly

(14:55):
do that, but it does feel like there's a little
bit of a crunch when it comes to the guard
minutes overall, and I'm I'm interested to see how you
shake out. Get a little bit of research here. So
obviously you have ninety six minutes between the two guard positions.
Last year, Brunson played one hundred percent of his minutes
there thirty five minutes per game Manual Quickly, which I
think part of their second half run was giving him

(15:18):
more minutes because he played so well down the stretch. Obviously,
adding Josh Hart helped a lot, but he played ninety
two minutes per game. Ninety nine percent of those minutes
came at the guard position. Thirty two post All Star Break,
Grimes played about sixty five percent of his minutes at
shooting guard, which was twenty minutes. That leaves about twelve
guard minutes, assuming that Quickly's playing his pre All Star

(15:41):
Break twenty nine minutes per game and Grimes is kind
of staying there, and that doesn't even factor in the
ten per game that RJ played there. How do you
kind of foresee that shaking out? Do you think Grimes
might shift a little bit more to the small forward position.
Even if he does that, I feel like that puts
a little bit of crunch on RJ. Like where do
you see kind of that minute battle shaking out and

(16:03):
what does this mean for em manual quickly in particular.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, so the quickly thing is its own separate conversation,
which I'll get to in a second. But I actually
thought they were finding something in the second half of
the season at specifically post Josh Hart trade that like
Josh Hart or RJ can be your backup four. Like
there was a couple of times when when when Randal

(16:25):
got hurt and they went to lineups down the stretch
with RJ at the four or Josh Hart at the four,
but both of them were on the court together as
you're three and four, then you went either quickly or
Rimes at the two, most likely quickly, and then you
go to Brunton at the one. There's actually a game
against Miami that clinched at least a five seed really

(16:47):
for the Knicks at home. It's the game that Randal
got hurt, and they not only didn't have Randall on
the court down the stretch, they didn't go back to
Jalen Brunson down the stretch. They just went with those
those four quote unquote smaller play, and it's this smaller
lineup in a center that I think the Knicks actually
found something there and I think that was actually the game.
But that's actually the game that I came back to

(17:09):
I first came on with you. I was like, I
think they actually found something with this small with Josh
Hard at the four or RJ at the four. I
don't look at to the minute distribution that you're talking
about as much of a crunch because I think that
I think again that I want to put in bold letters,
think that they also believe RJ can play your backup

(17:32):
four minutes Josh Hart player back, Like who's the backup
four that you're afraid of? That is like, oh no,
Like like they had to be top in playing it
and never really had him.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Like, but how many backup four minutes are available? If
we're assuming Julius Randall's playing thirty five, Like that leads
me thirteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
So if it's six and a half or six or
seven and a half, you know, and you just have
RJ play, you have hard play five, Like if Randall's
going to continue to play the entire your first quarter
and the entire third, third quarter, you're talking the first
five to six minutes of each second and fourth quarter. Yeah,
you know, Like that's the thing about the Obi trade

(18:12):
that it's like it opens up twelve minutes, which then
leads to Emmanuel quickly, because I don't think Dante di
Vincenzo came here to play twelve minutes so quickly it's
extension eligible, and I personally think quickly is a Swiss
army knife that should be extended and kept it all cost.
I think as a starter, if he like you saw,

(18:33):
like you mentioned what he did when he got more minutes,
I've seen what he looks like when he's a primary
ball handler. I think he's an elite offensive player that
could do multiple things.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Do you still think he's better than Garland?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
No better thing. I never said better than Garland. I
said better than I said better than Alan, And the conversation,
the conversation didn't bear out my way, but I did it.
The conversation was I think he's the fifth best player
in the series, which then led to mobiley or quickly,
which I will can see as far as that series

(19:05):
is concerned, it was Evan Mobley, Josh Hart. Then, So
that's the funny part is that I think to give
you an inside look at how Knicks fans are feeling
Josh Hart, it's impossible to say like he's bad, but
because he's not like your primary ball handler or someone
that impacts the game in the same way that Quickly does,

(19:27):
as like he'll like lead your offense or or be
the person that's responsible for good things happening, but he's
a complimentary piece and then gonna be the primary ball
defender on the other end, their impact actually works out
to be the same when you look at all those metrics. Yeah,
so it's like this push and pull of Look, I

(19:47):
think Emmanuel Quickly is awesome and with more responsibility and
more usage could be even better. But like Tibbs loves
Josh Hart and all the things Josh Hart can do.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
So but you feel like Tim's comfortable playing smaller next
year because oh yeah, that seems to be the conclusion here, right, Like,
I think there's going to be a bit of a crunch,
you know when it comes to like you said, there's
the thirteen backup power forward minutes, but then you know
you still have the forty eight small four minutes. So
if Grimes is shifting more to the three because Dante

(20:20):
DiVincenzo is eating up some of those shooting guard minutes.
That leaves Grimes, R J. Barrett, and Josh Hart competing
for minutes to some extent, right.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
If.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
To an extent.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
The Quickly part of it is where I'm a little old,
So you think.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
He might be the one that short changed in this
just because like, is that kind of Nick's forecasting? It's
going to be tough for us to give this extension
or we're not all the way comfortable with it, so
therefore playing time might be affected as a result of that, Like,
is that a fair characterization of the situation.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Because Quickly's extension eligible, and from what I've heard now,
we have heard all of our beat guys say that
the report actually that they think it'll get done before
the season starts. Okay, but if he's extension eligible, and
like he's having to compete with the backup two minutes
as well as the backup one minutes, and you've got

(21:18):
a manual Quickly playing seventeen to eighteen minutes a game,
and he's like, I got a new contract. I don't
want that to mess up chemistry. That's where I'm worried that,
and worried might not even be the right word, but
just like concerned that he's he's potentially a trade piece.
That happens when this becomes a buyer's market again. So

(21:40):
right now, look, right now, he's the backup point guard.
Right now, he's also Jalen Brunson insurance. I think Jalen
Brunton's elite. I think there's a gap between the two offensively,
but I don't think there's as much of a gap
or a drop off when you go from Brunton to
quickly overall impact, like you don't you don't have an
elite point guard anymore. You just have a really good
point guard if a mania quickly starts for him. So

(22:04):
I I go to that with that opinion. In keeping
a Manua quickly around at least for one more season,
look and.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Depth is important. Yeah, Like Knicks were one of the
healthiest teams last season. Obviously, every team plays for injuries,
but it's nice to have that level of insurance, right that, Okay,
we do have options and it's not going to overtax guys,
right because even though the Knicks didn't have a lot
of injured games, necessarily you still had guys that were
dealing with nagging injuries, and I think there were still

(22:33):
stretches where a lot was put on guys, right like
when Randall is out, you do have to play a
lot smaller as a result of that. So I think
having that kind of depthy is obviously helpful.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Well to your point about the health of the team,
Like Jalen Brunson, it was a nagging it was a
game here, a game there, two games. But that's where
Manuo quickly became such a tool that like Brunson's out tonight,
but like this high impact player can step in. That's
the only place where the OBI trade can scare you.

(23:05):
And if like you remember the conversation we have when
I first showed up last year about Julius Randall, like
this is an iron man. The guy had not missed
a game until he hurt his ankle against the Miami Heat,
and like that was his case for all NBA that
he's putting up this production and is on his way
to eighty two games this season. Now we'll see what

(23:25):
this ankle looks like. We'll see if the like can
they survive if he does have another injury coming off
this this ankle that got hurt twice and then required
surgery to clean it up. Can they survive if he
like busts it again and is out for two weeks
with starter RJ at the four starter Josh Hart right

(23:46):
before you know. So that's the only place I go
to and say can they survive that? If he's back
to being an iron Man, then I think they'll be
a really good regular season team. That's That's That's where
I'm at, And like, I think there'll be nights where
Grimes will close with the starting unit. Grimes will be
the starting two Knights that quickly would be the starting too.

(24:07):
There may Knights that Stevencenzo is the starting too, in
in in closed in closing minutes that I think can
can be a good formula. The biggest thing is just
I thought they needed shooting, and they upgraded that shooting
spot for that Obie spot with a better three point shooter.
So I'm okay with it.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
You feel like Dante is an upgrade when it comes
to three point shooting from.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Over Obi yes, overby yes?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Okay. Interesting specifically for what the.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Knicks we're asking Obie to do, what they'll then ask
Evencenzo to do. There's also the Villanova of it all,
which I have no idea how to feel if it's
a good thing or a bad thing that the Knicks
are just putting together those Villanova teams that won those titles.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know what I think, chemistry and those type of
connections that that definitely pays dividends I know for the Cavs. Uh,
there's the Team USA connection, right like Garland, Mitchell, mobile Alan,
all all these guys, even Okoro, you have some of
those connections, right And obviously Kobe Altman has been involved
with TMUSA Basketball in the past. And yeah, I was

(25:09):
just curious about because obviously we were looking at, Okay,
who are the shooters available in free agency because shooting
is one of the biggest needs for the Cavs. I've
unfortunately over the last week, I've been rewatching a lot
of clips and and segments and quarters from that next
series and even some of the regular season ones as
well well. And you could just tell right like, you

(25:30):
need to have that shooting context around these guys. And
Dante was a guy we talked about because there wasn't
shooting at the small forward position available in free agency,
especially for you know, the mid level exception or what
the Cats had to offer. So Dante DiVincenzo was a
guy that we looked at but just didn't feel great
about his volume right that the shooting volume wasn't really there.

(25:52):
And Max Strus was very clearly at the top of
our list. He was at top of our list, I
think even before we to the free agency portion, before
the playoffs had come. That was kind of the guy
that we had circled. So we're related to get him.
And fortunately Max Scrus was a guy that went the
hell off against the Knicks. That was his best series

(26:13):
last year, averaging nearly fifteen points per game.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, I remember, believe me. I remember. Guy was an
inconsistent shooter most of the season and then he and
Caleb Martin decided that this was the series that they
were gonna remember how good they were the year earlier,
and it was so frustrating. Apologies to the Celtics fans
out there. We got them going over in New York.
Which is funny you look at all their their rating stats,

(26:37):
like their offensive rating was the lowest outside of the
Nugget series, but like the lowest of the East series.
The heat struggled the most against the Knicks, and it's like,
it's why a lot of Knicks fans go to like
the one or two margins, whether it's a Tibbs margin,
whether it's a Julius Randall margin, whether it's a manual
Quickly margin that they're like, mayn we could have won

(26:58):
this series. And I'm like, the Knicks actually did their
part to limit a team that was surging and refining
itself to make a run to the finals. They we
were their toughest fight until they've been into one of
the best players ever in the finals.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
You know what do you think it was about the
next defense that gave the Calves so many troubles because
even looking at the regular season, like Game one that
the Cavs and Knicks played in the regular season, Garland
wasn't playing that game. That was one where Mitchell, Kevin Love,
all these guys kind of went off from three in
the Calves won. But looking at offensive rating versus the

(27:37):
Knicks last season, the Calves were fourth lowest, and obviously
in the playoffs that was the biggest thing. Like people
will talk about, oh, you know, defense on Jalen Bronson
rebounding Obviously the rebounding was frustrating, but even when you
look at that series, the Knicks put up an offensive
rating of one oh seven point three. Yeah, that would
be the best de rating in the league. And so

(27:58):
like people will talk about the Caves, they're like, oh,
where is that regular season defensive rating? Well, it was
actually better than their defensive rating. And the worst offensive
rating in the league last season was one oh eight
point four, which was the Charlotte Hornets. If the Cavs
just did that, that would have been sufficient. Right. You
even look at like the Jalen Brunson stats, right like,

(28:19):
because they lost that series against the Heat, everybody feels like, Okay, well,
you know, Brunson was dominant against the Calves, didn't really
get it going against the Heat. Brunson is twenty four
points per game against the Calves, and his efficiency was terrible.
Like he had a true shooting percentage of fifty three
point two. Darius Garland had a true shooting percentage of
fifty eight point seven, and that's despite going like zero

(28:42):
for thirty in that one game at Madison Square Garden,
right like versus you know, Jalen Brunson against the Heat
was very efficient thirty one points per game, shot well
from the floor, and was you know, the elite version
of Jalen Brunston that were accustomed to scene. What is
it about the next defense? In your eyes? They gave
the cast so much trouble?

Speaker 2 (29:03):
So the Calves how how not the heat specifically?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
You want to know what I yeah, yeah, I don't
you know Miami they do their own thing, the little
culture or whatever. Yeah, that's fine, Yes, yes, Steroites will
call it. I'm self involved. I want to know what
you think is specifically about this matchup that gave the
cast so much trouble offensively.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
So there's two things that I thought stood out that
have come that. One happened during the series that I noticed,
and then one is really more words from Donovan Mitchell
since then. And I see this is where I give
you credit or your team credit. That I thought after

(29:46):
Game two we were headed toward Carter's prediction. Like I
joke around at the beginning, but I had a ton
of respect for what the Calves were during the regular
season overall, and I was like, okay, like this will
be a tall task because the offensive the Knicks had
during the series didn't surprise me, I thought if they
were gonna, like I knew the shooting problems that existed
during the season, I knew they were gonna have to

(30:07):
win the possession battle. And while they won it in
game one, I thought the drop coverage and the rim
protection that Tibbs believes in was starting to hurt them
in game two. So then you go to games three
and four, and I thought they did a good job
of specifically winning that possession battle. That the Calves only

(30:28):
get one shot, it's got to be a jump shot
because they'd taken away everything at the rim. And you
add in what Donovan Mitchell said about Madison Square Garden,
I thought playing a playoff game in the Garden might
have shook some of the younger Calves players that hadn't
been in a situation like that before. And I'm not
someone that, like I believe in the in the New

(30:50):
York Bravado of like the Garden and it's awesome and
you come in it's the world's most famous arena, the Mecca,
like I talked that up, but I'm also just voting
what every single athlete says about that building, that it
is just a different experience coming in there to try
and win a game, which is why it took a
battle tested team like the Heat, with all of these

(31:11):
veterans Kyle Lowry, Kevin Love like Jimmy Butler, all these
guys that have been in huge games to come in
game one and to steal one and steal home court
advantage from the Knicks. I thought Game three was to
tell what was the wow there shook game for the Calves.
And then Game four and this is I think you'll
like the details here because I'm wondering if this is

(31:32):
something Calves fans have said. I thought the Calves got
back into the game in the second half, and then
Evan Mobley got in foul trouble and that just opened
up the rim for the next That opened up Barj
Barrett for trips of the rim in the second half.
I thought Tibbs going to the lineup that he did
in the fourth quarter was important. Julius Randall didn't play
the entire fourth quarter. Shoutout over Topping for the most

(31:54):
important quarter you played in a uniform. And then by
game five, Mitchell Robinson just having his way that anything
that your centers wanted to do, Jared Allen, Evan Mobley
on offense. They were exerting so much energy on defense
just to get a rebound that it was like, this
is this is pointless, like that they they've officially outmuscled them,

(32:17):
which I think that has that where that wears on you,
especially when you're not shooting it well, then you don't
have another gear to go to. So it's weird. So
me basically saying their offensive philosophy of winning the possession
battle almost wore them down that when the Cavs tried
to run their offense, they weren't able to. And this

(32:38):
is where I actually want to turn it on get
to get your your opinion on this. So all the
things I just said, I do think the Knicks did
well in that series. If Donovan Mitchell is elite from
games three on, none of that matters because Donovan Mitchell
would have been able to all the things that the
Knicks took away from everybody else. They weren't able to

(32:58):
stop Donovan Mitchell. But he also didn't play that all
that well from Games three, four, and five. So is
that like, is that also a sentiment that Cavs fans
feel that, Yeah, the Knicks like took took that series.
They won that series, but also like we get more
from Donovan and we win that series, like we're it's
not it's not Nickson five.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
You know, I want to be careful here not to generalize,
because I'm so in the weeds right Like I'm sitting here,
I'm talking Cavs every single day in Chase down discord,
I'm on Twitter right Like, I don't want to generalize
the entire fan base based on my personal experience, but
if we're talking about kind of the way that we

(33:41):
see it, I feel like KZ fans in general have
done the thing that all sports fans do. When you
come to a series loss, you pin it on whoever
you feel to be the most replaceable, And in sports,
I think often they'll come down to coaching, because you know,
it's easier to change up the coach than it is

(34:03):
to admit, Hey, the players that were really invested in
that we think are going to be part of the
future had some shortcomings in this specific series that they
need to address. I think it's also been put on
Jared Allen unfairly because you know, he had the lights
were too bright quote, which to your point, Donough Mitchell
has essentially said the same thing Darius Garland has essentially

(34:24):
said the same thing Jared Allen, you know, being self
assured enough to kind of admit, yeah, you know what
it shook us. So last time I was in the
playoffs was in the bubble and we were playing in
front of zoom cameras with people that look like me
just sitting there watching, right, Like, that's a totally different
environment or the weird COVID season right where there was

(34:45):
limited capacity. It's different than you know, a season where
you have real expectations, you're in an amazing atmosphere and
Madison Square Garden. You've got to give you guys credit
for that. They were definitely a little bit rattled from that.
So I haven't seen a lot of kind of criticism
for Donovan Mitchell, but it has been something that we
don't shy away from on the pod, right, Like, I

(35:07):
think it's fair to say if he played even up
to kind of a regular season standard for himself, that
could have changed things. If Evan Mobley would have played
up to a regular season standard offensively, I think that
really would have changed things because we talked all season
about how he's going to need to be that front
court playmaker in order for the calves to counter what

(35:29):
playoff defenses are going to do to the guards, And
I think you're right that they got worn down and
the actions were just slower nicks. Obviously, we're not respecting
the cave shooters no matter who is out there, and
we're really focused on taking away Mobley, taking away Garland,
and taken away Mitchell. And I think a lot of
the quotes that you hear this offseasons, we needed to

(35:51):
get in better shape, we need to get stronger, we
needed to be ready to take that kind of a beating. Obviously,
they needed to add shooting, which is something that I
think they've done a good job of doing.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Do you like the So I'm not even specifically just
talking about the Struce acquisition, but like the George Yang acquisition,
he was a guy I was thinking of because I
didn't I didn't buy that Tom Thibodau was gonna be
okay with going small, and we're far enough into the
offseason that I almost have to accept that that's the
direction they're going with their backup for But George Diang

(36:23):
was the type of player, especially with what he shot
from three last year, that I was hoping the Knicks
would consider, and then when I saw the Calves got
him remembering how that series went, and it's like, oh,
that's actually if Like I hate doing this where you
go back to the most recent series that the team
played and it's like they only have to improve on
what went wrong in that series. And it's like, no,

(36:44):
because you don't know what the Knicks will be like
next year, you don't know who you're going to face
in the upcoming postseason the year from now. You know,
you want to just get better overall and hope the
Margins land in your in your favor. I like the
shooting acquisitions that the Calves made and obviously, like I
don't know how much occuput in the Summer League, but
a moony Bates looked, Okay.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I don't think. I think he's playing with the charge.
I think with the charge, I don't. I don't think.
I think the only one from the Summer League team
that might get some burn is Isaiah Mobley, just as
a backup big obviously adding Damian Jones. I think he's
going to be kind of that third center with Jared
Allen and Evan Mobley sharing the primary center responsibilities.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Random question, Isaiah Mobley any relation to Evan Yeah, really, Okay,
the Knicks did that too. They signed Jacob Toppin to
be the to be out like on a I don't
know if he's officially their two way. That's why the
Knicks had to have the chance to do the funniest
thing ever and either actually play Obie's little brother as
the backup four or have him come on the team

(37:49):
show flashes of a human highlight reel, and also not
play him the way they did it to it that
whole family will hate the New York Knicks scoring for
which is funny because they're right here over. I think
either Brooklet or the so yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah. Isaiah was the Cavs draft second round draft pick
last year and played awesome in the charge. I really
like what he can do. I know some of the
draft Twitter people that we talked to Sam Vassini, I'm
drawing plains right now, but like they liked him and
kind of had that high second round grade. And I

(38:25):
still think that he's someone that could be a backup
big in the future. But obviously you're going to go
mostly Alan and Mobley at the five. But I obviously
I really liked the George Nangsig, and Carter was really
really enamored with him more so than myself. My personal
kind of off season hopes was Max Strus option number one,

(38:47):
Kelly Ubray number two, because I thought volume shooting mattered
so much, even though the percentage wasn't great, that he
would have that gravity and you needed someone that was
actually going to be defended out there, Whereas Carter was like,
if we missed out on Struce, split them, let's go
get George Nang and someone else and then we can
figure it out from there. And even Ty Jerome, you know,
Ty Jerome is a six to five guard that you

(39:08):
can play with either Garland and Mitchell. He can shoot well,
he can handle some pick and roll. Max Druce gives
you some secondary playmaking too. So I'm really happy with
the additions that the Cavs made, and it is fun
to hear that, Hey, George Nang was someone that I
really liked and would have liked on the Knicks. And
we've seen reports as well that Max Dreuce was among

(39:29):
the Knicks kind of pop targets as well in the
free agency. So anytime you can do that with the
team you're competing against, feels a little fun.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, that's the thing that also gives me encouragement that
the Knicks recognized everybody strategy against them in the playoffs,
where while the Calves weren't able to take away the
possession battle and the rebounding that both Mitchell at heart
and honestly a hobble Julius Randall was able to take
advantage of. In the series against the Calves, it was

(40:01):
like two. It was two things. They saw the Nicks
crashing the boards, so anytime Kevin Love got the rebound,
he just looked for Jimmy Butlet outlet, and they were
able to turn it into two points easily. Like that
first first Game one, it was like four different possessions
that Kevin Love gets the rebound, just looks down court
and it's a wide open touchdown to Jimmy Butler whomever's

(40:22):
leaking out.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
And then admit them how disrespectful they were to Josh
Hart at the three point line killed me because they
left him so wide open. And I can't help but
think back to that step back in Game one, because
obviously the Cavs got in their own head. Josh Hart
doesn't hit that shot, maybe they go up two oh
and oh yeah, the series. The complexion of that is
totally different, because, like I think, if you played that

(40:47):
series out one hundred times, it goes longer than five games,
the majority of them. Even though the Cass shortcomings I
think were really real. And I'm happy that both in
their internal approach in terms of guys really you know,
taking it to heart, working on adding muscle and that
sort of thing. I'm glad that they're taking it serious,
and I'm glad that the front office took it seriously.

(41:10):
But I still think that, like their are outcomes of
that series, if you played it over again, that it
could have gone a whole lot longer, as do I.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
And that's why it's funny. I guess we could start
to not wrap up here because I love talking to you.
I just don't know how long you want.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
To to go. No, we're going long, We're long even better.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, I'm here, I'm here.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Good.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I hear a lot of Knicks fans because it's funny
you brought up you point the blame at people who
are mostly replaceable. A lot of Knicks fans pointing to
Tibbs after the Miami series and said, like, because they
had this starting lineup that worked for about thirty games
and led to a first round playoff series that had

(41:50):
Quinn Grimes at the starting two and then Josh Hard
playing with the bench, and then they went to this
quote unquote death lineup in the third and the late
second and then close the game with Josh Hart at
the three and Mano Quickly at the two. Quentin Grimes
gets hurt. In the Cavs series, Josh Hart starts the
last two games and Knicks obviously win them, and it

(42:12):
takes until Game four for Tips to go back to
that starting lineup. Knicks fall down to one, and there's
a belief amongst the Knicks fan base that's like, man,
if you had just stuck with the Quinton Grimes, because
Grimes was healthy for Game one against the Calves, against
against the Heat, if you had just gone back to
the starting lineup that works, maybe we're up to one
in that series. Maybe the bench doesn't look as bad

(42:34):
as it did. Maybe Mayo Quickly doesn't get hurt because
he's playing a different role next to guys, but next
to Quinton Grimes, who would have looked better if he
was playing in the lineup and with the guys he
had been with fall season, and I know there was
a hint of that sentiment from the Calves or Calves fans.
I was going to say, the Isa Korro lineup that
a lot of you guys wanted to go back.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
To, it is horrifically similar everything from hey, we have
the start lineup that worked, why did we go away
from it? A quote unquote death lineup, and like the
Kariselverts starting five or the Core four with Karaslavert that
was their best lineup throughout the year and going into
Game five that lineup had been in that positive as well.

(43:16):
But I agree, like I think there were times in
the series, like I think the blame What I love
about that series and it's not many things, but if
it's going to go wrong, I liked that there were
so many points of failure that you know it wasn't. Oh,
Donovan Mitchell is going twenty eighteen Lebron where he's just
carrying this team. He's playing at such a high level

(43:36):
and he's being let down. He's been let down by
you know, all his teammates. You could make an argument
like organization that put him the guys together.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Though, when guys forgetting the score.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
People really really forget just how injured that twenty eighteen
supporting cast was. But that would that would be another
hour long episode for me to go down. But I think,
you know, getting away from the identity, like the Cavs
should have been the ones setting the tone in that series,
and they didn't do that right, Like they changed. I
thought they got a little too out of their defensive philosophy,
even for someone like Jalen Brunson, which he was scoring

(44:11):
well individually, but like when even when Darius Garland went
on him, he was scoring well individually. But I didn't
think that was worth jeopardizing your rebounding position by having
Jared Allen come that far beyond the three point line
to you know, blitz the ball handler in that way,
took him completely out rebounding position. I think it gassed
him and it reminded me of Tristan Thompson in the

(44:34):
Finals in twenty seventeen, where he was out rebounded by
Steph Curry primarily because he was so far away from
the basket, whereas in Games one and two Jared Allen
first game fourteen and fourteen Game two had big impact.
I think he had like three steals three blocks was
really out there, and I thought they got a little too.

(44:54):
It almost showed too much reverence for Jalen Brunson where
they should have been. Let's stick with our kind of
core to defensive philosophy here. Let's assuming Isaac o Cora
was healthy enough to go, which we still don't have
real details there playing him more. But I like the
minutes that he got, and it's it's kind of funny
looking at it that the only person with a positive

(45:15):
net rating in that series was Isaacacorra Kra.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, Yeah, it's so funny you're talking about too much
reverence for Jalen Brunson, because that was the outcry that
there's too much reverence for Jimmy Butler, that Jimmy Butler
went off against Milwaukee, and Tibbs was like, the one
person that's not beating us in the series is Jimmy Butler.
And Jimmy Butler had his his five lowest shooting games
that up until Game four against the against the Celtics

(45:41):
when they started their comeback. But for a while it
was like he went off against the Cavs and then
the Knicks doubled him for six games. Then he went
off against the Celtics and like his strategy largely largely worked.
He was like, if anyone's gonna beat me, Max Strus
and Gabe Vincent and Caleb Martin are going to do.
So what happened, Max Drews, Caleb Martin gave Vincent largely

(46:03):
beat the Knicks in that series. But as far as
the Cavs are concerned, it's why I was curious to see.
I guess how you feel, like, is there is the
is that could criticism warranted? Because I feel some of
that with with like, I do think they should have
went back to the quint and Grime starting five so
that way everything's back in its place. I can't say
that's why they lost the series. I think a lot

(46:26):
of things went wrong. Yeah, so it's a it's a
it's a criticism of TIBs. But I also think his
defensive philosophy gave the Heat a lot of problems for
six games. And the Heat also had some guys step
up that you know that that that hadn't throughout the
season and decided to step up in the playoffs. Also,
just as far as coaches are concerned, what Spoe was

(46:46):
willing to do, like playing Duncan Robinson the minutes that
he did and basically was like, if the Knicks shoot well,
they'll beat us. But we're gonna trust Duncan Robinson to
play well and to shoot well, and on nights he
has it going, we'll feature him and we'll just play
and if the Knicks, the Knicks are gonna beat us,
then then they'll beat us with their three point shooting.
And the two games the next one or the two
games that they shot well from three and the four

(47:09):
games that they lost they didn't shoot well from three.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, I think a very similar thing would have happened
if if the Cavs did advance and play the heat
right like, I think they would be that same approach,
and I feel better about the cass possible how they
would match up against that kind of philosophy given the
shooting that they've added.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
So that was actually gonna be my my big question
for you, because knowing how you felt about the Korro
the Core four plus a Korro lineup, and as well
as what the what the lineup data said about that
that lineup during the season. Now you add Stus into
the mix, Now you add the ink to the mix,
you know LeVert obviously like played important minutes during the playoffs,

(47:47):
So what's the what's the closing lineup now? Do you
go back to does a Choro still have priority or
do you have other options that you hope to feature
throughout the season.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I think it's going to be matchup dependent. I think
especially you know now that there's an unknown with Ricky Rubial,
but even if he was, you know, with the team
healthy and willing to play, I think you're probably having
a lot of the guard minutes with Garland Mitchell. I
think LeVert can handle a lot of that ball handling
responsibility as well. Some nights maybe you do close with

(48:20):
one big right and you have if you're trailing, you
might want George Niang playing at the four right like.
I think he's going to play a lot of kind
of that backup power forward minutes and really help the
spacing there. Maybe sometimes you do want to have Isaac
Okoro out there. I'm I'm interested to see. I'm assuming
that he's going to come in off the bench. I
think that's actually going to be really beneficial for him

(48:42):
because there's going to be more space around him. I
think it's going to highlight some of his feel for
the game, and I'm interested to see how his game
grows overall, but you could still close with him. The
interesting thing for me is going to be how their
defensive philosophy changes if Mac Streuce is starting, Because if
Isaaca Coral was your primary defender or the defending the

(49:06):
primary ball handler in all these situations, probably not going
to do that with Max Strus. You're probably going to
have to trust Garland and Mitchell to guard their men
straight up. Maybe you have Struce side over to shooting
Garden and you hide Mitchell a little bit at times,
but you're really going to be counting on the depth
behind you, obviously Mobile and Allen, and you're going to

(49:28):
have to trust those guys to defend straight up. And
I'm hopeful that with more depth, Mitchell will have more
energy to exert on the defensive end. Daris Garland two
straight years of him being by all metrics a plus defender,
not a great defender, but you know, a plus defender.
I think his issues have come down to, you know,
when he's losing the size matchup and hopefully him adding

(49:50):
strength he is going to help with that. But I
feel comfortable enough with him just giving the defensive infrastructure
defending primary ball handlers, and did that quite a bit
last season as well because o'corol didn't start all season.
But I am interested to see how that goes. But
in terms of the closing lineup, I really think it's
going to be matchup dependent. I think the three you

(50:11):
can count on at all times is going to be Garland,
Mitchell MOBILEI, I would say Alan. In most instances that
lineup has been so damn good. Those four are so
good together, and I expect with a year of internal
growth that they would continue. And then it's going to
come down to, Okay, what do we need? How much growth?
Has a Chorol shown right? Like it's hard to say

(50:33):
people forget like he is the same age as Evan Mobley,
Like that really gets overlooked when you talk about, Okay,
what is the growth curve? How much room is there
for him to grow offensively? What can you get out
of that. I do worry just because I think he's
more of a two three than a three to two.
I worry that there's just not going to be the

(50:54):
opportunity available given the number of ball handlers they have
with LeVert, with Ty Jerome with Garland and Mitchell, but
I do think that this there is still a path
to him kind of having a bit of a breakout
season himself as well.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Well, I'm I'm curious to see what the Calves do,
because they're obviously gonna be on my radar. And I'm
curious how you feel if Nicks fans should feel that
we're all in the same tier as far as the
middle of the middle of the top half of the
Eastern Conference.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
And until the Calves prove themselves like that, any skepticism
is well founded.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Okay, So then I I like, I'm looking at if
the Knicks are battling it out for the with the Calves,
with the I'm so curious what the heat are going
to look like this year.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
But it's that that very shortly the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And look, we have no idea what
Philly is going to look like and and like you said,
we'll transition to that. But as far as the Calves
are concerned, Like, I looked at what they did and
I thought they addressed some of the needs that show
up during that Knick series.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
But how much do you think it changes that series
if they had strus Nyang Ty Jerome, even Damien Jones
to throw in as a big because as you said,
in that game where we're mobily gone in foul trouble,
that was a major part of it. And the one
part of that game I really loved was, you know,
Garland's coming off that awful performance. It's still amazing to
me that he had in that series, had a true

(52:23):
shooting percentage of almost fifty nine. But he's coming off
an awful performance and not a great start to that
game either in an incredibly hostile environment, and then just
takes over right like he was kind of that one
man run and after game one, really he was the
best player on the Cavs for the remaining game. Well,
not the one he shoot shot poorly, but three on average. Yeah,

(52:44):
you look, he averaged over the last four games like
two more points per game than Mitchell, much more efficient,
and I thought he acquitted himself well there. And I
think that's one of those indicators that, Okay, this is
a big time performer. He's someone that's able to play.
But as you said, like Mobile getting in foul trouble,
if they had you know, even Damien Jones to go

(53:04):
to you know, a room, protecting big that can eat
some minutes. Maybe that changes things. So how do you
how different do you feel that series goes If the
Calves had the players they now have available to them
to support the Core four.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Well, look, if you had the Max Strews that the
Knicks played against the Heat in the series against the Calves,
the Calves might win in five. Because that's how good
Strews was. It's how frustrated I got by all of
these undrafted players that just showed up and decided they
were going to beat the Knicks in six games. My
biggest takeaway from the Cavs series, as far as the

(53:41):
series that our team's played in the first round was
so much less like Yes, I think the Knicks won
the possession battle and it helped them. I thought Mitchell
didn't play up to superstar standards that I have for him,
but that may my standards may be too high for him.
I thought he had an on and off series. I
think thought, like you said, the Core four had some good,

(54:02):
some bad, and they're My biggest takeaway is that they
the Calves depth did like the concerns I had at
the beginning of the series is that the Calves might
have four of the seven or four of the six
best players, but the Knicks will have eight of the
best thirteen or fourteen in the series. And I think,
now it's a conversation when you add playoff rotation pieces

(54:24):
like a George Niying, like a Max Strus to the
mix to where the Calves are going not five or
six deep that I'm afraid of at least, but now
it's like seven, eight, nine deep, that I could be like,
all right, now you actually have the game plan for
George Kying, especially if he's gonna shoot what he did
from three last season. So that's that's my biggest takeaway

(54:45):
is that I thought the Calves added depth on a
team that consolidated to get Donovan Mitchell and then spent
the year succeeding in the regular season. But then come postseason,
you realize, oh, you need like seven eight guys in
order to win a playoff series.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
And you know, if you guys are probably want to
go through that too, right, Like you guys are probably
going to go through a consolidation trade. I know Low
and Begley we're talking about, you know, which was obviously
interesting for the Calves. Hearing Oh, you know, I've kind
of moved on. They're targeting wings and bigs with those
consolidation trades because obviously, you know there's always going to
be those Mitchell rumors. I think those will just continue.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Can we just start there? How do you feel? Because
I like, the the only time I saw it come
up where I saw Calves and I recognize Calves Twitter
is not all Calves fans. I do recognize that. But
it's the only time I actually it crept into my
life was when the Mets played the Guardians this season,
had a big comeback win and Mitchell was like, LGM,

(55:40):
like we did it, and Calves Twitter was like like,
I'm I'm a Guardians fan too, and our best player
is celebrating on New York.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Win over Cleveland, like and my dad works for the Mets.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Oh right, So like that connection is still going to
be there. And that's the first time I saw Calves
fance being like all right, I've had enough, Like yeah,
you might as well.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
And it's been a major topic. It's been a major topic.
It doesn't Yeah, yeah, it's been a major topic. And
like for me, what I've said is no matter how
bout in the players on your roster are you're always selling.
Like the modern NBA, it's all about a partnership between
the organization and the players to show, Hey, this is

(56:20):
our goals are aligned. We believe that we can provide
you with you know, your best opportunity for winning or
whatever your goals are, we can help you achieve that.
And Kobe's talked about that too, right, which is, Hey,
we're hopeful that next summer we'll be able to get
a deal done, but we have to prove ourselves to Mitchell,
And honestly, Mitchell has to, you know, prove himself to
the organization too, right, It's a two way street. And

(56:44):
like to me, it makes sense like your Cavs are
going to have to show that this is going to
be their best chance to go out and win, and if,
for whatever reason, they come up short again next offseason,
there's going to have to be an evaluation on both
sides both, Hey, do we want to commit extension if
the postseason outcome is similar? And for Mitchell it's okay,

(57:05):
what are my options available? Do I want to play
this out a little bit longer? But I don't worry
about it because to me, Donovan Mitchell has always been
very bought in. He's always been committed to the community.
He's said all the right things. I've never questioned his
effort on the court. And even in today's interview Chris
fiedor did with JB. Bickerstaff that was one of the

(57:27):
things they asked about, right like, this isn't a question
that the organization has really hid from either and Jabi's
I'll pull up the quote right now as I stall
for time here, but he said I went to visit
with him in Connecticut. We worked out together for a
few days, talked about how things were going and what
we're going to implement in this upcoming season. Is with
us in Las Vegas and stayed longer than most. He

(57:49):
worked out with the guys and went to dinners. The
things we asked him to work on over the summer.
We watched him do those things, and I've seen improvement
in those areas. I continue to watch how he brings
teammates in and build relationships with them. There were conversations
we had during free agency about trying to get people
we needed here. Those conversations he had with guys we
were able to bring in. So he was part of

(58:11):
the recruiting process talked about how Mitchell is always there,
He's always bought in, he's always engaged, and that's what
I expect. So I think if the Calves do their
part and this team is as good as I think
they can be, it's going to be a no brainer,
right And if they're not, it's going to be an
evaluation that both sides need to make. So I'm especially

(58:33):
after you know, going through I think there's lebron PTSD.
I think we need I think we need as Calve fans,
we actually and I'm talking to myself too here, we
need to develop a little bit of tougher skin because
this team's probably, if it's as good as I think
it's going to be, given the age of this team,
it's going to be in the contending mix for a while.

(58:53):
And when you're in that mix, any sign of slippage,
you're going to have the national conversation going to be,
how are is this guy going to stay here? Is
Darius Garland going to stay here? Is Evan Mobley? Is
Donovan Mitchell. That happens to every single team. It's happening
with Joel Embiid and he's in kind of you know,
a good market in Philadelphia, Right, it happens to Giannis

(59:15):
even though he won a championship, and they're both connected
to your team in trade rumors. Right, it happens to
every single major market, every single start. It's just the
way today's NBA works. And as long as I'm seeing
buy in from the guys on the court, it's going
to come down to whether or not the organization does
its part. And if the organization doesn't do its part,

(59:35):
or we're not as far along the development curve as
we thought and we have to pivot, then you know
you're going to make adjustments at that time. So I
don't stress about it. And like I said, the most
important thing to me is that donnod Mitchell has been
bought in, and I couldn't be happier with kind of
how he's approached things on and off court.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Well good, because I look, I just personally wonder sometimes
how much is how much of any of the conversation
that happens on Twitter actually reflects what's going on behind
the scenes. Yeah, And I have no idea, man like Yeah, Well,
so like we experienced it with Julius Randall that he
had a poor series against the Heat and honestly a

(01:00:16):
poor series against the Calves, and all of Knicks fans
on the night that they were eliminated were like, all right,
gotta gotta fire TIBs, gotta trade Julius. And I think
the Knicks behind the scenes doubled down on their commitment
to Julius by trading his backup their commitment to TIBs
by signing another Villanova guy that's a CIA client. That

(01:00:36):
and again, I think they actually care what we think.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
You know. I think it's natural for fans too, where
if they think someone's not there for long term or
might be on the way out, all of a sudden,
how they start talking about that player, how they start
viewing that player, how they view their actions. It changes,
right Like if you think it's almost like you know,
you're you're in a relationship, you and you don't have
the security, so you blow it up early kind of
thing like that's I I really think that it's unfair

(01:01:04):
that people do that with Mitchell because I think when
you actually look at the actions and you remove yourself
from the online discourse, I I don't see where you
would have any gripes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Well, so let's remove the online discourse your response that
you just gave, I think is a better response to
the Bontemps McMahon Windhorse pods that have gone around where
they've But.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
But even Bontemps latantly said like he said him now
you know, yeah, well Bonteps, what he said at the
start of that was, I think the Cavs are going
to be another first round out and if that happens,
I don't see Mitchell signing an extension. And if he
doesn't sign an extension, Cavs don't want to be sitting
there with an unrestricted free agent. Yeah, if the Caws

(01:01:48):
massively underachieved, that's going to re That's going to cause
everybody to re evaluate, right, Like, if that's the way
you're approaching it, that's that's one thing. But I think
you look at what went wrong in Utah versus the Cavs,
which the Cats have been so aggressive in bringing in
that support the guys that can make a difference, Like

(01:02:10):
you said, guys that you feel add relevant depth to
this team and address the issues. That's one of the
biggest things. And you're going to have upward mobility with
the internal growth because Evan Mobley's twenty two Garrius Garland's
twenty three and Jared Allen just turned twenty five, Isaaca
Goros twenty two, Max Truce is young a right, like,
these guys are all going to get better and that

(01:02:31):
factors into those that future projecting. So I don't think
anyone said anything out landish, but you know, if people
are going to be skeptical of the Calves and don't
think that they're going to perform well in the postseason,
that comes with the territory because this is a team
that's earned expectations that came up short and we'll see
how they approach next summer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yeah, I agree, And I'm curious if you want to
transition into the rest of the East because them coming
up short, if they have expectations contending expectations like you said,
if they play a competitive first round but lose to
a team that's clearly better than them, but it's just
because the East the middle is so flat. Like the

(01:03:10):
Knixt series I think was more eye opening. It's like,
oh my gosh, less than five to the team that
didn't trade for Donovan Mitchell. If you lose a hard
fought series to Joel Embiid or to the Heat who
had the same record as you you know that I
think is more acceptable. Like you said, like even if
it's a three six like that one weird season where
three through six had the same record or was separated

(01:03:31):
by a couple of games. But like if you lose
a close series in that sense, I think it's easier
to stomach. But like you said, how you lose still right,
it's still a step back if you don't advance to
the second round again after doing doing all these things,
I would consider I'd.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Be more receptive to that argument last year. I think
they have now they have to get. They have to
I think this team is good enough. I think they
underachieved in the postseason. I think that the talent is
at a level where the expectations should be that they
events the second round. I think the support is good enough.
I think the support is almost as good as the
support we get from Zoom. Support for this podcast and
the following message comes from Zoom. Half a million businesses

(01:04:11):
connect using Zoom, a single platform for phone, chat, workspaces, events, apps,
and video. Zoom enables real time collaboration for teams around
the globe. Zoom how the world connects. Let's let's before
we get out of here. Let's let's talk about the
rest of the Eastern Conference, because we've already done the
Bucks preview, and I'm going to continue this tradition of
asking our guests to rank their top six in the

(01:04:34):
Eastern Conference how they think they'll finish in the regular season.
Where do you see the East shaking.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Out Boston one? Okay, this is as currently constructed as
currently No, let's assume it's assumed Dame.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
For fun, for fun of this exercise, just because the
NBA is predictable in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Miami too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
In the regular season. Okay, oh yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
That team that all those pieces fit so perfectly together.
And knowing Miami, they'll find somebody that was backing groceries
to be like, hey, you want to you want to
be the backup point guard and he ends up shooting
forty percent from three.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Okay, you you got heat, reverence, and you know what
that's uh? They have?

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
I have heat PTSD is what I have right now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I don't so I will say this. I think the
Celtics are the best team in the East. I think
even with Dame, the the fact that they can go
to like a porzingis lineup now is Yeah, I think
they got worse. You think they got worse with that,
really worse. I think Smart was shooting one through eight.
You think you don't, You don't think that the shooting.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
I think for the regular need, I think their biggest
need was playmaking, and they got rid of their organizer
on the court and Marcus Smart and like, I don't
think he was sufficient, and they took a step back
in that category. I think Porzingis had a lot of
fun kind of being a lead option on a bad team,
but has struggled in a complimentary role. I think he

(01:06:02):
struggled in Dallas and I'm curious to see how that
looks as a third And I think losing Grant Williams hurts,
Like I don't think Porzingis is going to be healthy
throughout the regular season, and you know, the step back
that they took in playmaking, I think they got worse.
I think on average, they got worse.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
So I put a lot of stock in their shooting.
I think basically because Horford's still there, right, yeah, yeah,
like they the fact that they can on nights that
because who knows what you're getting out of Robert Williams
and now you're gonna go to what Porzingis can give you. Yeah,
I just put a lot of stock in the fact

(01:06:41):
that they can go one through six with like sharp
shooting and the way that their offense ran last season.
While you're right, there wasn't it's not a playmaking and
while smart had a lot to do with a lot
of the ball movement that you saw, it still led
to like twenty four to threes in a game often
last season. That's how the game that the Knicks them
last year was in that way. I hear you on

(01:07:03):
a health concerns like if Porzingis is going to be
a fifty five game player, maybe this is the three seed. Again,
I think talent wise, I just put a lot of
stock in their shooting. Okay, So then so I think
this is in Miami, Boston, Miami, My Boston, Miami and
Milwaukee would be my top three. Okay, I think out
of respect, you have to put the m v P there.

(01:07:25):
You have to put Phil Again, I have no idea
we're assuming Harden goes back for one season. Uh for
fun putting him in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
I think you have to look at the context of
that situation, which is what happened last time James Harden
or the last couple of times he's requested a trade,
and how he's performed if he did stay, So then all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Right, I'll put I'll put Cleveland for the Knicks five, Philly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Six, Okay, So I agree with that. You your four,
five six, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
I Actually.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I would put Miami below them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Though, like Miami below all three of them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
I think even even even with them, because I think
they lost a lot of shooting around them. I think
that is a much better playoff team than they are
a regular season team. And Dame, Bam, Jimmy, all those
guys missed time. I don't think that's going to change
with age, and I think there's going to be a

(01:08:28):
gelling process as well, just because both Jimmy and Dame
haven't really spent much time playing off ball, especially Dame,
and I think there there's going to be a feeling
out process there, and that's going to be a team
that's going to take the postseason more seriously than the
regular season. So I actually think Nick's getting better. I
would put them above Miami with or without Dame. In

(01:08:48):
the regular season.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I love it because that means the Knicks are hosting
are hosting Philly in the first round, maybe maybe or.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Your scenario maybe maybe you're hosting Miami Philly might slide
to say, who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
So your one two is is Milwaukee Boston.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah, I'm Milwaukee, Boston. I think I have Cleveland third
and Knicks fourth would be my top four. Carter has
Cavs all the way up to two, So that's exciting
for me, right Boston. I can see it in the
regular season, I think, because the thing to keep in
mind is last year the teams with like the most
injured games, like Miami was up there, Cleveland was really

(01:09:27):
high up there. And I think adding depth, adding the shooting,
projecting internal growth, like they can go from fifty one
to fifty six pretty easily. Like, I think this could
be a regular season team that kicks ass, and then
we're going to have to see how that translates to
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Especially if from like the six worst team up is
all thirty five win teams. You know, like if you
have the same amount of parody, then if the Calves
winning three or four more games is not a crazy jump,
the NIXT winning three to get to fifty is not
a crazy jump, especially since they punted the last two
during the regular season, so I'm not Look the Knicks,

(01:10:07):
I don't think what this sample size that I keep
going to from the time of the Josh Hart trade
when they went nineteen and seven and then won five
playoff games. Six playoff games is like a full sample size.
But that's a fifty six win pace is what they
went on. I don't think that they're gonna win fifty
six games this year. I do think a jump to
the four seed in a fifty win season is reasonable.

(01:10:29):
And then it's funny you say that, how.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Does your regular season rankings differentiate from where you believe,
like if you were doing a postseason power rankings to
those teams in them to this is this is the
so this is just the East, so just as top
six of the East.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
I don't think so. Based on my top six, I
would have Boston advancing against wohomever, Miami advancing against him. Ever,
so the three six in my world is Cleveland and Milwaukee.
You're right, so wow, I have Calves Knicks again, so

(01:11:09):
it'd be Milwaukee against Philly. That's actually a fun series.
I would have Milwaukee advancing. Man, I have to I
have to be treated to myself and say I would
pick the Knicks in that series. I think it would
go deeper than in that series, but I think it
would have to be I'd have to go with the
team that that last time they played, and I'd have

(01:11:30):
to go with like Donovan Mitchell against Jalen Brunson. It's
too oh then the last two times they played each other,
So now that might not matter, Like Mitchell wins once
and we forget about those other two times. But I
would have to go just, oh, so I'm the Knicks guy.
I have to say that, you know, you do?

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Yeah, I I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
New York. If I if I don't say that, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
And also, like my lot in life right now is
if anyone is to doubt the Cavs in the playoffs,
I just nod my head quietly and be like, you
know what that comes with the territory, That comes with
expectations and coming up short. It is what it is.
I've got. I've got the little smirk, I've got the
quiet confidence. I think I think everyone talks about a

(01:12:11):
mobile leap. I think we got a Garland leap coming
next year.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Even better. Look, I've we talked for like ninety minutes. Now,
you see, I do project the Calves being better. I
don't think Nixon five is a thing anymore. Like if
the Knicks and the Cavs are to meet, I would
pick that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
I think. I think, I think we have the foundation
of a genuinely great rivalry here. I think I think
that these are teams that I think are going to
be around for a while. I think Philly's probably going
to age out of it. I think Milwaukee's probably going
to age out. I think these are two teams that
are probably going to have stain power in the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
So then I have to ask the we're putting Dame
in Philly and we're putting Miami. We're putting Dame. Well,
so here's my hot take. I think dam ends up
in Philly. But that's whoa, that's just my two cents.
I just there you go with the reggae horns out there.
I just okay, I haven't seen a trade that I

(01:13:08):
think he'll look up and see Joel Embiat under contract
and be like, all right, so I did move to
another team and I'm under contract, and the league will
just be like that memo that got sent out, I
thought that was a warning like we're not having this, Like,
we're not having you just dictate when you have four
more you got your extension, Yeah, we're not having you

(01:13:31):
dictate after an extension where you get to play. Heat.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Fans got to be better, he media heat. Fancy, you
gotta be a little bit better. Like the false equivalencies
are driving me nuts, Like I saw even like the
Siakam thing where he's not willing to sign an extension
with any other team. They're like, how is this different
than Dame. I'm like, well, one, he's not saying he's
not going to play for a team if he's traded.
He's saying he intends to test free agency at the

(01:13:58):
end of his deal, no, no matter where the outcome is.
So the incoming team kind of knows the risk there,
and you know you're going to weigh out that situation.
And you know, people can say it's a bluff as well,
just because Toronto has the ability to pay more, pay
him more. And I think if I was a team
that felt good about my future and had the assets

(01:14:18):
to go get Siakam, that's a gamble I would take.
I would absolutely take that. That's very different than reportedly
not being willing to play for any other team but
one that's a totally different thing. Hey, fans, you know this,
you know this. You know it's different than what you're saying.
You are better than this, you are smarter than this.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
Don't be silly, however, in not in Dame's defense, but
to explain the behavior like this is what you have
to do in his situation, Like if you want to
be in Miami, you have to make such a mess.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I'm glad you said that because that's the part that
drives me nuts, because that has been what Miami fans.
I listened a laboratory show a lot. Oh yeah, yeah,
like that has been the thing throughout history. We don't
have the assets. A star's going to have to make
a mess to get themselves to Miami.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
That's what they're getting right now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
And then when people say their assets are great, all
of a sudden, it's oh my god, this anti Miami bias,
Like I can't, I can't get my head around this.
How how is this even occurring? You know, this never
happens before. It's totally different. And you guys know it.
You're you're better than that, be better well, so as

(01:15:29):
I'm Lebron picking up my briefcase and telling them to
be better right now. When leaving the room, I.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Would have to say, there's awesome. I'm sure some some
left over feelings. Cleveland, Miami there from from twenty ten.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Honestly, no, ok, honestly no, I actually like Miami. I
like the heat Beat. Guys. I was happy when Lebron
won the championship in Miami. I I didn't think I
would be, but I felt joy. I was happy that
he got that one. There's none of that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Good God.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
I just find it funny that Miami fans look at
how the looked at the Lebron hate and thought it
was about them, and they've carried that forward post Lebron.
They really thought the backlash to the decision was about
Miami and it's not. Guys. You're like, no, everyone loves Miami.
Stephen A will lose his mind if an NBA finals

(01:16:19):
is anywhere but Miami, Like, come on, what are we
doing here?

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
And just quick shout out you said, shout out to
the Miami heat Beat. I want to just make it
known the Miami heat Beat is the different than the
Levatar Show because they actually watched the heat Yeah. They
actually watched games, so they actually haven't informed opinion. Shout
out to Dan just in general, shout out to Dan
and the whole crew down there. Regardless, where I was

(01:16:44):
going with this was like, we're we're projecting teams getting
superstars potentially yep, And we did mention the Nicks are
looking to make a consolidation trade, the conversation you brought
up about quickly because it's not a buyer's market right now.
I have no idea who, but I think the Knicks
are saving the Emmanuel quickly chip to potentially put him

(01:17:05):
in an og Anobi trade or a Paul George trade.
Notice I mentioned two CIA clients, or you're saving him
for another one that just won the MVP last season,
which I think is getting closer to a pipe dream.
But I recognize that every big name or big national
guy keeps bringing up like, well, the MDMB to the

(01:17:25):
next thing is always going to be there if Philly
doesn't get it stuff together. So like, if you were
to project what the consolidation trade the Knicks go through
might be, who would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Oh God, I have no idea. Like I think the
Toronto guys are interesting just because I think Toronto has
to rebuild, probably regretting trading.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
I mean they had to do that for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Yeah, but I think now it's kind of really come
to that point, right, like, because they could have got
a bigger return for Lowry at the deadline, they didn't.
I know Michael Scotto, who does terrific work and you
know great dude, he had reported that they turned out
Maxi because they wanted Thiable. That's probably something they regret.

(01:18:10):
Fred VanVleet just left for nothing. You hear how the
Veterans haven't really connected with Scottie Barnes and have had
issues with his work, ethic and stuff like that. I
don't think they can strale the two timelines, like they
were already a lot of team as this and they
just lost Fred van Vleet. And I like the Grady
Dick pic, but I think those OG and Siakama, I

(01:18:31):
think are definitely two names to keep an eye on.
But we'll see. I don't like doing transaction talk. It's
probably good, yeah, it's it's probably part of why like
our podcast was a nice fit for the cast podcast
family because we like to talk about what's on the
corner whatnot. But I think this, even this conversation is
illustrative of every single team their stars are getting targeted

(01:18:55):
by other fan bases. That poaching is always going to
be there the national discourse. That's what moves the needle,
that's the that's what gets engagement. It's going to happen.
Kavs have operated with kind of a quiet confidence for
a while here, and we'll see. I really like the
moves that they've done this off season. I really like
what this core can be and I think Donald Mitchell
is a great fit in it. And we'll see. But

(01:19:19):
the most important thing is that buy an aspect, like
I said earlier, and I think that's definitely there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Well good as far as Toronto's concerned. The only transaction
thought I have on them is that they could have
been Utah if they wanted to be and decided to
sell sooner. But instead the assets aren't going to be
as great when you know they decide to finally sell
off because these guys are closer and closer to free
agency rather than what the Calves ended up giving them.

(01:19:46):
Mitchell and obviously what they got for Rudy Gobert.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Yeah, focus on development again, right, Like that's that was
something they used to do really well prior to Nick Nurse,
and I think post Nick Nurse there they're going to
have a shot to reastate aablished that kind of identity.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
So I do hope this is a rivalry by the
way that Knicks Calves becomes a thing that we're that
we're doing this again sometime in April and the four
of us sitting down and projecting a series, and I hope,
I hope Carter is is loud wrong too. Again when
when they have that type of type of playoff matchup.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I always root for Carter to be wrong, except for
except so we'll see. My hope for this. My hope
is this that the next time we get a Calf
next series, it's at least in the second round. Let's
let's go toe to toe in the second round conference finals,
birth on the line. That'd be a lot of fun,
just like it's been a lot of fun having you

(01:20:39):
here on the podcast, Andrew, thank you so much. Plug away.
Let the people know where they can find you. What
you guys got going on. I saw Knicks Film School
did an under twenty five draft. We didn't even get
into my outrage over where Garland and mobiley we're picked by.
That's fine, is what it is. Let the people know
what you got going on.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
So the Knicks Film School podcast podcast network that we've
got going on can be found anywhere podcasts are available.
We also have a YouTube channel at Nick's Film School.
You can search for us there. We are in evergreen
season until something happens, which potentially is a Josh Hart
extension that's gonna happen soon, which we're all in favor for,
But that will be the only non evergreen thing that

(01:21:19):
we do. Justin just mentioned the under twenty five draft
that we now we're doing in thirty and over draft
this upcoming week.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
So geezer draft.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
I love it, as you can say. See, we're just
picking a topic and then drafting around it. We've got
a bunch of those lined up over the next couple weeks,
as well as some fun interviews. Howard Beck coming on
the pod in a couple of weeks, so that should
be a fun thing. But yeah, we've got a lot
of evergreen off season stuff that, as you as you heard,

(01:21:48):
is gonna involve not just the Knicks. We'll talk about
the NBA at large and do some fun concept shows
around it so you can check all us out over there.
And then, of course during the season, when there's a
pregame pod that I host, I'll be reaching out to
the gentlemen across from me to link up again and
we'll actually have some basketball to talk about. It's going
to be great, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Can't we We're just under two months from training camp
and media Day and all that good stuff. Though you
guys don't do media day.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
But yeah, what's that? What's that Media Day?

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
I can't wait for basketball to be back, and we'll
continue doing our evergreen content interviewing the people with relevant
teams in the Eastern Conference. We're going off my bias
with the guest book and of who I think is
going to be at the top of these Who knows,
maybe there's a surprise team, maybe you know, Orland or
someone plucky and sneaky gets in there. Love Pallo, Bank, Carol,

(01:22:42):
a lot of fun. Big thanks again Andrew for coming on,
Big thanks to all our listeners. Sorry that we weren't
able to go live. Carter will be back next week.
I believe I should probably double check that if you're
listening via podcasting, you want supports, leave us a rating
late review, subscribe, unsubscribed, resubscribe and help cook those books.
If you want to be part of chase On exclusive
discord chat, Sunday screensch other review to Chase down Poto

(01:23:03):
gmail dot com. However you choose the supports, we really
do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying safe
out there until next time, Yo, Gass