July 19, 2023 • 54 mins
Justin and Carter react to the Cavaliers perfect run at the NBA 2K24 Las Vegas Summer League and discuss what contributors might be able to help the Cavaliers in the future!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, Carl left wing rere ball perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Then he block the shot at the rim how with
the left hand and a fowl.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Twenty twenty three NBA Summer League champs, the Cleveland Cavaliers
have done the damn thing, going undefeated in Vegas. Welcome
to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the cas Media family.
I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented
by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels of live
sports and TV for half the cost of cable. There's
no contract and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV
(00:39):
dot com. Joining me today to discuss this latest championship
for the Cleveland Cavaliers is my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Carter Hey doing Buddy.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
The Boys of Summer the champions Uh what a run
for your Summer League Cavaliers going undefeated through Summer League play,
defeating uh nay, destroying the Houston Rockets in the championship game,
and destroying pretty much everyone else en route to what
I would call the most impressive Summer League run in
(01:11):
the history of the league.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And here's why. Justin.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It was all pretty fun to watch, and that is
a miracle, and your whole argument, I was really I
was expecting bullet pop.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I was expecting fun. It was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It was good, real honest basketball, A team of players
who actually like ran at os and tried to help
each other play better. It was It was really fun.
It was a It was a really nice I felt
like it was in a way and this is like
asking it to be too much, but like, you know,
(01:50):
like the way the season ended was such a bomber and.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You're already going to go too far with this.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
No no free agency, free agency. It was nice and
this was just a nice palate cleanser, Like I'm fully
refreshed and ready ready to long for the season that
is still forever away. So a very very fun summer
league for the boys. And yeah, a lot of good stuff,
(02:18):
a lot of interesting stuff to actually take away, which
is nice.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, I was worried you were going to say, you know,
this makes up for all of it. This exercises all
the demons. I got demons that we're going to be
exercising all year. I'm going to be taking it out
on random teams throughout the eighty two game regular season
and actually, you know what, let's call it eighty three
because the Cavs are going to win the NBA Cup
as well. This was just step one of the Revenge Tour.
(02:44):
Twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. I'm all in. You're smiling, Carter.
You like this, you like this enters here right now.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, man, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It was fun to have a team that was just
really good and like the people who I was really
invested in playing well all well, and like, you know,
you just left with a lot of a lot of
good takeaways. And you know, we often say that, you know,
summer league doesn't prove that you belong in the league,
(03:13):
but it it often can be kind of exclusionary, Like
like if it's a year two or year three for
you as a pro, it's your second or third time
in Vegas and it's still not looking so good, then
you know it's it's a rough sign.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I know, Bulls fans are miserable that our pre draft ull,
really your pre draft favorite Dalen Terry had a really
rough summer league, and it's like, yeah, well it's pretty
concerning when your when your top picks aren't doing well.
But when when your second round picks that you know,
as I've said multiple times, you're just looking for one
to hit. That's all you want. And for the fact
(03:48):
that you know you had three or four guys really
flash some stuff. And that's not to say only four
guys played well, but I'm talking like really, like I
had games where they were dominant. To have that in
your back pocket was really fun. It just kind of
feels like those chances of finding a rotation player in
this group, in this kind of morass of Summer League
(04:12):
second rounders and two way players, like felt a little
more possible than I think maybe I thought it would
coming in.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, And one of the reasons we said prior to
Summer League that this is the kind of team that
could go out and win a Summer League championship is
it's just the right mix of guys, right, Like, you
don't have any of those high lottery picks that are
going to get shut down after two games, which we
saw even Houston, you know, shut down some of their guys.
Prior to this game.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You had not Cam Whitmore though that was done by
Luke Travers, very well played.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You also have guys that have played together. Right, Like
we said, this is going to be an environment that's
more conducive to Isaiah Mobley looking good because he's playing
for Mike Garrity, right, he's playing with Shariff Cooper, who
he had a lot of success with throughout the G
League season. Sam Merrill was a guy that played together,
So you have that continuity. You have guys that have
played together, that have run actions together, and I think
(05:08):
that experience really showed through. And also some of these
guys are older, right, like Sam Merril, you would definitely
hope that he looks good. He's twenty seven years old,
he's on a pro contract. We know this is a
guy that moves around, has a lot of savvy and
can shoot the hell out of the ball.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And she shows a little unfair.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
You know what, Garter, maybe we could say this, the
Cavs have really learned how important spacing is and in
the NBA, and they applied that even to the G League.
They took out the secret weapon, the nuclear bomb that
is Sam Merril, and.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That was a camp counselor playing with the camper's energy
at times in terms of his like know how, even
when he wasn't playing well. I was like, Yeah, this
guy's just clearly older and more experienced and just knows
what Ellie's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, and having him and Emoni both just in a
way shooting well from three that made a big difference.
Opened up the passing lanes for Craig Porter Junior Isaiah Mobley.
I was really impressed. I thought early on in that
final game against Houston you could tell he was going
to get the MVP for that game because everything was
running through him and they were getting consistently good looks
(06:19):
throughout that game. He was dominating guys. I love that
he's out there talking trash, like I'm sure ninety percent
of the times that they muted the basket mics in
that game, which was a lot. I think that had
to do with Isaiah because he's just talking trash out there.
He's leading by example, and most of the players for
(06:40):
Houston were just a little too small to guard him.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I do think you have to start summer any summer
league discussion with Mobley because I just thought he was,
you know, far and away the best player for the team.
You know, I think Merrill obviously had, you know, his
volcanic moments merrill isn't wasn't the hub. They weren't operating
through him really on both ends of the ball. After Khalifa,
(07:06):
Jopp left the team to go fulfill some obligations with
his pro club. I see it's your boy in chat
asking about what happened with him. He had to go
back and do his other job. But yeah, I thought
he really was. He helped anchor them on the defensive
end by just being a great talker, great communicator, always
being the right spot.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Game.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, he led, led the team and assists.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I believe maybe overstay. Yeah, he overtook him in the
last game, averaging game.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I believe it if you can believe it. Pretty hard
to sort summer league stats on NBA dot Com. But
uh but yeah, so like I thought that, you know,
he he operated the hub. He attacked after some early
summer league kind of adventurous post ups where you know,
he was starting some games like four of four of
(07:57):
twelve on all bunnies, you know, where he wasn't finishing.
I thought the last two games he kind of saved
his best for last as a finisher, really displayed a
great touch and footwork, you know, was doing kind of
these you know, mini euro steps on the way to
the rim with a with a smaller guy kind of
on his chest almost using his elbows to protect his
shot on on those euro steps towards the rim, so
(08:18):
he could just kind of float it up. A ton
of craft is a score, A ton of craft is
a foul drawer hit a few step back threes. I
think the three remains the one thing that you really
want to see, like feel really good, and it just
didn't feel really good, you know. Uh, you know it
was still a bit of an adventure for him on
that front. Uh, but yeah, I mean ultimately just an awesome,
(08:40):
awesome summer league for Isaah Mobley. And I don't know,
justin like you know, you we've talked about this and
we're gonna have to have this discussion quite a bit
with MOBILEI Porter Jr. And maybe baits with that with
that last roster spot or two is you know, I
think there are going to be some folks that say,
why aren't why aren't we calling them up the big club?
(09:00):
Why aren't they why aren't they going up to main contracts?
And you know it's one of those things where you
I think you've really made a smart point that if
you do, if you're not planning on any of those
three being in your playoff rotation, you might be better
off keeping them as two ways for the year and
giving yourself that flexibility to go fill that roster elsewhere,
(09:21):
knowing that you know, you can always convert them in
a pinch if you really need to, you know, prior
to that deadline at the end of the year. So
but what I'll say about mobilely for me, and I'm
curious what you think, Like, I just think this was
a real reassurance that he can probably be a pro.
(09:41):
He could be a fourth big and acquit himself well
on a good team.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I went into the Summer League still a little curious
because frankly, his summer league last year was not very good.
And you know, he had a nice year in the
G League, but a lot of guys can have nice
years in the league, and I really wanted to see, like,
does he feel like he's taking taking a meaningful step forward?
And I do feel like he has, And I am
a lot more confident than I was beginning of Summer
(10:09):
League that this is a guy that could be you know,
maybe not in your everyday of rotation, but be a
guy like Lamar was last year that could come in,
keep you afloat, have some give you good minutes, and
contribute to a winning team.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
On and off the floor. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I think the important thing to keep in mind
with these two way contracts is they are eligible to
play NBA games, right, Like, there is a cap on that.
But if you are in need, you can have Craig
Porter Junior come in. You can have a Mony Baits play,
you can have Isaiah Mobley come in. Two years ago.
It's easy to forget that we had Brandon Goodwin playing
so many games for US just because of how many
(10:46):
injuries we had to the point guard position.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
So he really does come down to kind of two questions,
which is one, do you expect these guys to play
playoff minutes because if they're not, having them on the
two way contract doesn't burn up any other eligibility. This
is kind of a more common thing with NHL MLB,
you know, leagues that have more of a kind of
refined minor league system. Is sometimes you do kind of
(11:11):
have those call ups, but when you start that rookie
contract is really important, and I think it's going to
be important with the new CBA. But there is a
flip side of this too, right, which is you only
have control over three guys when it comes to those
two way contracts, and if you really do like someone
like Shreef Cooper, you may want to promote someone like
Isaiah Mobley saying, hey, we need a big man in
(11:33):
this rotation. We think he can be that fourth or
fifth big for us. Depending on how you want to
view and use Nang, maybe that's the direction you go
to give Shereef Cooper a two way contract, because I
still I really like his vision as a pastor. I
think he's got a lot of talent. I actually just
saw him the other day share kind of a splits
(11:54):
of him prior to an injury he suffered last year
in the G League's season, And you know, that's the
type of context that we don't have, right, Like I
can talk about, well, you know, Darius was playing in
January with a shooting hand injury, and like, we're aware
of all the nuances throughout a cast season, but when
we're just looking at G League stats, that's the type
of stuff that can get missed. And I just really
(12:15):
like kind of his feeling as a passer. So I
wouldn't say having his rights is so important that you
have to promote one of these guys. But that's an
option or that's a consideration that may go into this process.
And maybe it might come down to are we able
to add one more guy in free agency?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Like are does the mid level exception market dry up
to the extent where all of a sudden, someone like
Bismack Biyondbo, as an example, is willing to sign for
the minimum on a one year deal. And you have
that depth at the big man position, and you don't
want to use that on mobile, right. So there's a
lot of things that will go into it. But I
agree with you. I think what we saw last year
(12:53):
in the G League, he was clearly the best player
on the charge. He took a big step forward I
think from last year in Summer League, and I just
really like his feel he can give you. It reminds
me of Al Horford as a guy that you can
kind of run offense through a little undersize, but just
has a lot of craft, great footwork, and I don't
(13:13):
think you're going to see seven eight second post ups
for him when he's playing with the Cavs. But I
do think that the passing and some of the other
things that you see from him can translate it and
would work well within that team concept.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I was just kind of looking at the Cavs minutes
last year because you know, you kind of look at
the fact that he really didn't get any run last year.
He only played eighty four minutes total, and most of
those were at the end of the year. He was
playing like thirty minutes a game down the stretch. But
like you look at Robin Lopez played three hundred minutes
(13:46):
last year, Momity d T played one hundred and seventy five.
That's just under five hundred minutes, And like, I do
feel like those are you know, some of those minutes
are going to go to Damian Jones. Like it's going
to be harder to find the Mamity dues in this
year's iteration of the Cavaliers, probably just because there's so
(14:06):
much deeper. I mean, Lamar played eleven hundred minutes last year.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, and he wasn't even in the rotation to start
the year.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, a non planned rotation player, Uh, you know, twenty minutes.
I don't think that's gonna be the case, barring some
pretty major injuries and some pretty major surprises for your
ninth tenth man. Uh And you know, obviously if you're
on A two A, you're certainly not that. So you know,
(14:34):
I think Mobiley is going to get a chance to
get some run. I think there's gonna be some matchups
where they go, actually, we'd prefer you to Danmian Jones,
and you're active tonight, so why not. But like it
is gonna be a h it's gonna be an unlikely
road for consistent minutes there, which means we're just gonna
like we're gonna have He's probably gonna spend another year
(14:55):
mostly with the Charge, and like that's the flexibility you
buy yourself while you're giving in these guys time to
develop and trying to win a championship, Like I do think.
You know, if I wonder, justin if this for the
Cavs of three and a half four years ago, if
he would be a full time player right now.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I think so. I think so, because yeah, you're looking
to develop any under twenty five talent at that point,
right And I think it's very clear that the minutes
he got last year were really beneficial to him, and
I remember years ago we were talking to Dave two
four and he was crediting Mike Gerrity of just how
good of a developmental coach this guy is. And I
(15:34):
think you really saw, even in this small glimpse in
Summer League, in terms of just how prepared everybody was
on such a short turnaround time, the buying you got
from guys like a Moony Baits, and how much better
he got throughout just six games working with him, right Like,
this is not far removed from the draft, and I
just got everybody settled into their role as well. And
(15:56):
I think you can see the skill development for someone
like Isaiah Moulble how much he's benefited from that year
with Garrity. So I think he needs to deserve a
shout out here one. And I think this is part
of what makes the Charges move back to Cleveland so important.
That you do have easier connections, You have that continuity,
(16:17):
you can practice with one another, right you can. It's
easier for the coaches to communicate. You can have someone
like Garrity there working with these guys and developing kind
of that next round of talent, because I mean it's
really encouraging that the one guy we had on an
NBA contract, and the three two way guys all looked
very good in this setting, and you can see the
(16:39):
path that each of them contributing in some way at
an NBA level. Right, That's what you really really want
to see. And honestly, I feel good about our guest booking,
even like having Adam Spanella on. I feel like everything
he said was kind of on the money that Isaiah
Moble is the guy that I see as most ready
to get an NBA contract at some point here. And
(17:00):
the other thing that he pointed out was regarding Amoni
Baits that you know, in you know, hearing what his
camp is saying and everything, that this is a guy
that's eager to kind of push aside some of the
misconceptions about his game. He really wants to round out
his game. He knows what the criticisms are and he's
willing to work at it. And that was my big
impression from Summer League. But more than even Isaiah and
(17:24):
how he improved, it was just how much growth Emoney
had over those six games and the way that his
style of played as he got more comfortable with these guys.
Obviously there's still warts there. He's got a ways to go.
I think he is going to need time in the
G League, probably a season or two there, but I
can see the path to him being a rotation player
(17:46):
in the NBA much clearer than I did after watching
him one game in Summer League.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, that was a tough one game was that he
opened up with and you know, all your if you
were a doubt or all your worst fears were kind
of coming true from Jump Street. But you know, he
flashed the stuff that you know when we add at
him on and Adam did not have Baits highly ranked
on his big board. It's not like he was, you know,
a huge a money Baits fan, but he kind of
talked about did the true upside, which was He's like,
(18:14):
I think the joke not joke he made was like
Michael Porter junior cross with Jordan Poole, uh as his
like truest up up up at the upside. You know,
I'm not I'm still not so sure about that, but
like he does, there is value in a six '
nine player with a high quick release that is not
(18:35):
afraid to shoot it, that has shooting talent, you know,
like that that is that is hard for teams to
deal with especially at the summer league level, where you know,
there were guys who were closing out pretty well, but
he just had a cleaner sight line en route to
being able to to make a make a shot. You know,
I was really pleased to see him have some efficient nights.
(18:57):
I was really pleased to see him make some nice aids,
showing a little bit more passing. I don't think anyone
will ever mistake this guy for a point guard. But
unless you're Memphis, unless you're Penny Hardaway. Uh, But like,
like I think that, you know, he showed enough playmaking
juice that like, maybe not that I would ever say,
(19:19):
like I'm gonna project him as a really good playmaker,
because I'm not sure that's who he's gonna be. I
really do think he's going to be a you know,
try and get get buckets when they're there, if they're
not there, drive and kick. I think that's his first
step as as a as an NBA rotation player, if
he's going to get there. However, it shows a a
an ability to value the right play enough, you know, uh,
(19:43):
finding finding Meryll and semi transition with Merrill is scorching
the nets instead of taking the pull up for himself
finding Craig Porter Junior cutting down the middle of the
lane like these are these are not you know, these
are not Steve Steve Nashian plays, but they're they They
belie a little bit more basketball IQ than frankly he
showed in college. And you know, it kind of goes
(20:06):
to show to some extent, like what operating in the
healthy ecosystem, like with four other players on the floor
most of the time that like to pass like that,
like to move like that, how that can have an
infectious impact on the way you play.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, And honestly, it made me just think of, you know,
how context dependent a lot of players performances are, right Like,
obviously he was miscast in Memphis and was dealing with
a back injury, and you look at Eastern Michigan and
that's not typically a spot where you see NBA prospects
come out of And whether it was you know, just
(20:41):
falling to forty nine and that's when the buying clicked,
or maybe it was just you know, not getting the
proper coaching prior to then, just seeing the growth and
how coachable he appeared to be in this setting is
really encouraging, and I think It's important that we don't
really kind of just dismiss people as you know, two
dimensional caricatures of who they are, Like these are real
(21:04):
human beings with depth and they can learn from their experiences.
And you know, what Adams said was bang on right,
Like this is a guy that's willing to put in
the work. And what I like about Adam too is
his evaluation of players never feels like it's justifying the
ranking he has because having him lower would be like, okay,
(21:24):
I need to you know, this is a guy that
has a lot of hypiea, has a lot of people
that are in his corner and whatnot. He didn't do that.
It was okay, this is where I have him. But
this is the upside, Like I still believe in his
talent that he's talking about it, you know, objectively and
disconnected from his rankings. And after the Summer League Championship,
(21:45):
I was reading in an article from Mike Curtis of
the Detroit News. He did a great interview with a
Emoni and he I just want to read a couple
of little excerpts from it because I'm now all the
way in on this guy in rooting for him to
you know, overcome the obstacle and become.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
A rotation player.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So the first quote is people from my basketball experience
feel I'm a hype guy when I play. I talk
stuff and things like that, so people take my on
the court and put as my off the court. He's
a kid with a bad attitude, So I'm just trying
to show people the other side of Amoni. And the
other thing he mentioned was that therapy has been big
for him in kind of overcoming things. Therapy has helped
me a lot. Talk to my therapist, you know, got
(22:23):
me through a lot of hurdles. I feel like that's
why I'm as stable as I am today, being able
to get off things. There's a lot of stuff going
on in my mind, just little stuff, but with therapy
you can have someone you can talk to and it's confidential,
it's not going to get out. And that was a
blessing for me for sure. Like this seems like a
really kind of self aware kid, and I'm really excited
to see what a year with the Charge is going
(22:46):
to do for him like it did for Isaiah. Like
there's just such a clear path to someone with this
basketball skill set making it to the NBA level, Like
you said he's a six ' nine shooter six nine
wings fan shot forty in summer league. I'm I'm not.
I don't care about percentages in summer league at all, Carter,
(23:06):
I don't know how you evaluate it. I don't care
scam sample size, Yeah, I don't. I don't care one
way or another whether it's good or bad. I'm just
looking for the flashes. I'm looking for things, skill sets
that I say that can translate to a team context.
And I think I think he flashed that. I think
the playmaking as a connector is encouraging. But that's never
going to be what you count on him for, right
(23:27):
Like you want him to go out there and get buckets,
and honestly, I want him to do enough of the
little things that justifies him taking some tough shots, because
you know me, Carter, I love a heat check player.
I can live you like I can live with tough shots.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Maker. You can't.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
You can't help yourself with it, you know, I think
I would if i'm If I'm coaching Imani, I am
showing a lot of Michael Porter junior tape, watching the
way he's learned to with a similarly limited frame athletically,
especially post injuries. You know, Porter doesn't move crazy, but
he's a big, tall guy that can use his length
(24:03):
to not die on the defensive end. At this point
in his career. He you know, two years ago, everyone
was crapping on Mike Malone for not playing him enough,
and I think it was well deserved. You know, he
was a guy who would space out and really hurt
the team on that end, and he got good enough
to stay on the court. And then on offense, he
really doesn't do that much besides shoot. You know, like
(24:25):
he shoots and he cuts, he and he takes point
blank layups. But because he's such a gifted shooter and
is playing with the best playmaker in the league in
Nicole Jokic, he gets a really steady diet of great looks.
Also because of his size that you know, you can
waltz your way to twenty points in a game pretty
(24:46):
easy when you're him. So I would be watching a
lot of Porter junior tape if I'm Bates, especially since
he's also a guy who kind of was this valley
hued prospect fell in the draft, not as far as
the money did, obviously, but you know, and then had
had to figure out how to get his coach to
let him play, you know. And I hope jb on
(25:10):
the nights where Amani is up on the main roster
and the Caps have this luxury that even the Nuggets
didn't have with with Porter Jr. Which is that unless
he does everything right, he's not going to get to play,
you know, and he's gonna have to. And so I
think Porter Jr. In a lot of ways is a
really nice role model for Bates to model his game after,
(25:30):
because you know, I think the best version of Bates
looks a lot like that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, No, I think you're on the money there, And
you know, it helps that, you know, Donovan Mitchell appears
to have reached down and taken him under his wing
as well, that they have a relationship going back the
last couple of years, like you know, just another example
of Donnie being kind of the consummate professional and someone
that's been really bought in, like you hear Max Struce.
George Nianing. George Niang had an interview with Carmen and
(25:58):
Lima today. He was a lot of fun on there.
He says when when the NBA Cup, He's gonna buy
Happy Hour for whatever bar he's out of downtown Cleveland,
so we got to hold him to that. And maybe
I'll even come down for that. But you know, like
they talk about how you know, don and Mitchell is recruiting,
he's he wants people to be here, and I think
(26:19):
it's really encouraging foreremony to have someone like Mitchell, you know,
take him under his wings. And I'm just excited to
see where this can go. And I'm excited that, you know,
none of these guys are high picked, like even Sam Merrill,
like sixtieth pick in the draft, Isaiah Mobley, late pick,
Luke Travers late pick, do you second round pick? All
(26:39):
of these guys have skill sets that I say, okay,
that can translate to the NBA. I'm not counting on
all these guys to hit, but this is the type
of value in the margins you need to find, especially
after you made a consolidation trade. And it's just encouraging
that even you know, someone like Craig Porter Junior, that
guy I'm pretty sure is going to be an NBA
(26:59):
player at some point. Like as much as I'm convinced
that Isaiah Mobley is a pro, at this point, I
think Craig Porter Junior has a very clear path to
be that at some point within the next two years.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You love your boy.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I'm so your kind of player, and you know, I think,
obviously I'm going to start actually with the stuff that's
limiting right now because I'm trying to talk myself down.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
You need to bounce me, uf. This is the dynamic
of the podcast. Go for it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, I am, I am. I'm a little disappointed in
the jumper. It looked like he was a lot more
confident at the college range right now, because he took
a decent volume at Wichita State last year, both catch
and shoot and off the bounce, and right now it's
like you can kind of see him trying to find
his range, Like you can kind of see him loading up.
(27:52):
And he also does a bit of a weird thing
with this point. I don't know if you noticed, this
kind of fades away as he rides rises, And I
think that's hard when you go out.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
To NBA range to do that. And I wonder if
that's just.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
A you know, maybe an evolutionary trait of being a
small guard often being guarded by bigger players. But like
you know, especially on catching shoots, you just gotta go
straight up and you got to you gotta get it
up there with with impunity. So I don't think as
much as I love Porter right now, I don't think
he's like there's some folks that are like, you know,
he should be an active roster player right now. He
(28:24):
should be challenging Ty Jerome for third guard mans right now,
And I don't think that's true, because if you're gonna
be a role player, you have to shoot, you know.
I think, you know, we talk about good role players
for Amoni Bates. You know, what I think would be
a great role model for Porter Junior would be Javon Carter,
(28:44):
a similarly undersized point guard, uh with a defensive reputation.
It has more on ball juice and more jump shooting
juice than people understood.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But like Carter had to turn himself into a guy
who can open three every time he had it and
showed that he had that shot making skill in order
to really earn himself a rotation spot in the league.
Similarly an older player as well. I think he was
a four year player at West Virginia. So, like, I
think there's some really good analogs for these guys that
that these players can look to and say, oh, that
(29:19):
guy is not that different from me, and he's going
to have a ten year career, and so can I.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
No, I completely agree, and I think obviously it's easy
to get excited about this group. There were a lot
of fun playing together. Obviously, you know, winning the championship
on this stage, it's all very encouraging. But there's no
substitute for playing time. And the Cavs are a team
with a lot of depth, especially when it comes to
(29:45):
the guard pa they are yeah, yeah, but like Garland, Mitchell, Lavert,
Rubio Tije Rome, even Sam Merrill as a guard on
this team, Max Drews can play some guard minutes there,
Isaaca Kor can obviously play it as a shoe and guard.
Getting minutes is really really important, and we've seen, you know,
(30:06):
being in the charge system, being around the Cavs coaches
and whatnot like that can really benefit guys and as
much as it can be annoying and it's obnoxious when
you listen to Heat fans talk about you know, Heat
culture and their player development and.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
They use the sky Force incredibly.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Well, like Orlando Robinson.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Man, my god, they use the sky Force incredibly well,
and that's how they're able to develop these undrafted guys
and second round picks. They find guys with a certain
skill set and they develop the hell out of them.
They say, Okay, this is something we think can translate
to the NBA level. Let's round them out a little
bit as rotation players. Let's get them in the system,
and let's develop them in the G League with the
(30:48):
expectation that they can move their way up to be
rotation guys that can come in and fill the gaps.
I think the Calves have an opportunity to do that.
With Craig Porter Jr. I agree with you. I think,
you know, beating up the jump shot, changing a couple
of things when it comes to the form, you know,
getting the consistency, getting a more confident with the pull up,
working with Isaiah and everyone else that's going to be
(31:11):
there in the G League. I think that can do
him a lot of good. And I think it's going
to help him be a better pro when that day
does come where you promote him to the NBA level,
because I do think that that day is going to come,
I think, but I think giving him the best chance
possible to get off his career on the right foot
really is really beneficial. And we went out and got depth,
(31:35):
We got veterans, we got NBA level players at those positions,
and I just think that, you know that it's the
right kind of approach that you need to take with
these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, and now that I got the skepticism stuff out
of the way, what a cool player. What a player
that so vibes with my aesthetic, you know, hit ahead
passes in transition. Every time a big ran the floor,
he made sure that they caught the ball in stride
with a good chance to finish. Really crafty stop and
(32:08):
go attacks at the rim when he got switches, even
sometimes when they weren't so well spaced above the rim,
or rebounding.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Three rebounds Carter, he was behind only Mobley and jop
as a rebounder for the Cavs.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I mean, like, it was just really cool to
see him be a guy who attacked boards and then
used that as an advantage to go push and run
and get the team easy buckets, you know. And I
think that that is something that the team was just
so clearly missing last year. They were not a good
(32:50):
non big rebounding team, and it's part of the reason
why the Knicks did what they did to them on
the offensive glass. So seeing a guy that is that
is going to leap, grab and go and really attack
that into the basketball was really really encouraging to see.
(33:10):
I thought, the finishing and also finishing above the rim
when he got a step. You know, sometimes you see
these athletic, smaller guards and you know it'll remain to
be seen be seen as he keeps jumping up different levels.
But you know, he dunked a lot in his highlight
tapes at which is a state like you saw a
lot of those, and I was like, okay, but is
(33:31):
this going to work with bigger, stronger, you know, non
witch state competition bigs around the rim. And yeah, he's
so explosive and such a smart cutter that he generated
really clean angles for himself to do so, especially as
an off ball player, which you don't normally see from
these kind of dominantly guards. We'll see what it looks
(33:52):
like at the next next level, you know, once he's
playing against NBA competition. But I do think the fact
that he can get such explosion vertically really bodes well
for his ability to finish at the next level, because
you know, that's that's going to be a challenge, especially
if the jumper is an elite. If the jumper just
(34:13):
kind of caps out as okay, he can't be you know,
a forty percent at the rim guy. He's going to
have to be a guy who scores well from two
point range. And I think he's got a chance to
do that.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, I think he does as well. I liked his
shot creation in the mid range was a little better
than I expected. He had some big shots in particularly
that game against the Nets. I just really really like
his all around game. I think he's got great, great
feel as a floor general as well, and that's that's
the most important thing. Like, that's the thing that I
think really translates along with his defense and man like,
(34:48):
if you can run a good offense and you play defense,
I think you have a spot on an NBA bench
at the very least. And the ability to shoot would
really you know, keep the defenses honest and bring it
all home.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Here's an unconventional comp or a guy that you know,
managed to never got a great jumper but has lasted
forever in the league.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Russ doing those things hilarious. Is Smith great handle?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Not a big guy probably Porters, probably bigger than him.
I don't hate it, but like just a guy who
found a way to stick with craft and an explosiveness.
So you know, I really liked what he gave us.
One little note about his defense, one little nitpick. You
can tell he doesn't He kind of likes getting on
(35:38):
someone's back hip so we can kind of challenge from behind.
That is not going to work in the NVA. The
guys are too big, too strong, probably, and he's going
to have to find a way to stay in front
and just uses in.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
The shot blocking is going to have to come on
on weak side stuff, not not on ball.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
See, this is why it's important that we keep you around,
because when when I when I fall for a prospect,
I fall hard, and I'm all the way sold on him.
I'm as sold on Craig Porter Jr. As I am
on the video conference. Thing we get from Zoom support
for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom.
Half a million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform
for phone, chat, workspaces, events, apps, and video. Zoom enables
(36:17):
real time collaboration for teams around the globe Zoom, how
the world can act Carter. I guess we don't have
to spend too too much time on sam Merril and
Luke Travers. I liked obviously what sam Merril was doing.
It's fun to see him shoot the hell out of
the ball. I don't think he's going to be part
of the regular rotation for the Cavs, but I do
think it's nice. One of the things you want to
(36:38):
have when it comes to team building is redundancy, and
I think he gives you a little bit of that.
He's not as well round as Max Druce, and I
think any situation where you would play sam Merril, he's
where he'd probably play Max Rus. But just having this
option at you know, the Calves were one of the
league leaders when it came to blowout wins last year.
I think they're going to be really good again next here.
(37:01):
You're gonna have opportunities to play him there. Injuries obviously
come up, you know, situations where you just want to
give him some burn to go out there. I think
all of that's important. Having a guard that can go
in there, that you know, relocates really well, finds those
passing lanes and can space the floor. I think it's
nice to have someone like zam Meryl out there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I think with your eleventh, twelve thirteenth men, you either
want you kind of want one of three archetypes. You
want the wily vet that's there just to teach and
you're not really expecting to ever get to play. You
want the prospect that you're kind of given burn to
and when you can and developing them in the background
and all that stuff. And then the third thing you
(37:44):
want is just a replication of what you already have.
You want to if if Max Truce missus you know,
five games because he turns his ankle. It's nice to
be able to run the same stuff. Yeah, for at
least part of the minutes that he's being replaced with.
I think this was something they had a hard time with.
(38:04):
I talked about it like a month ago whenever Robin
Lopez came in. Not only you know, obviously, I do
think Lopez was a little bit limited with what he
had left, but it was all of a sudden, but
whenever he played, it was like all of a sudden, like, wait,
how do we use a guy like this? What are
we supposed to do with you? I guess you can
post up, We'll give you the ball, like they didn't.
(38:26):
It just felt like they kind of had to change
a lot of what they did schematically to figure out
how to play, you know, an older plotting center that
was more of a bruiser. So I think Merrill. I
think meryll spot long term is going to remain in jeopardy.
I think, you know, if the Cavs had gone out
and signed someone else that was, you know, a different
(38:48):
archetype of player with their free agency money other than
Ty Jerome, George Knihangen, Max Strus, I think Sam Meryl
would feel a little bit more secure about his long
term future. Just editorializing a little bit there, but I
do think there is value in having that redundancy. I
think you're spot on with that. I think he's shown
that he can do that. I do think he's an
(39:10):
NBA level shooter, and against Ben Chewing it's I think
he's okay on defense. He's not gonna be great, but
you kind of hope. I think what you kind of
hope there is like you have the they the other
team just starts breaking their offense trying to iso. You know,
you get some tangential benefits there with with guys in
(39:30):
that archetype. So I think he can play at the
NBA level.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I think.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
He would be best served like if he could play
next to like a bigger point guard, you know, where
he could you know, maybe hide, he could hide a
little bit more, uh when he does get if he
were to become a rotation player somewhere. But like you know,
ultimately I think he's a good fit here. He's a
good culture fit, even like you know, I don't know
(39:57):
what happened behind the scenes to to have Sam I'll
go to Summer League at his age because he's certainly
one of the older players there.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Like I said, they were valuing shooting baby.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Calves are all about, you know, I do think there's
value in having a guy that one wants to go still,
that's on your main roster at that at that level,
at that point in his career, and also that you
can ask to go. That's like, hey, Sam, go help
coach Garretty install some stuff, help make things easier for
everyone developmentally. And I definitely was very very pleased. I
(40:29):
think he acquitted himself literally as well as he could
have in a summer league setting, just to show that
he was, you know, he was a little.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Too good for the setting, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
He definitely was, And yeah, I just I like that
there is redundancy right now when it comes to the
Cow's roster, Like you're going to have guys miss time
throughout the year, and we can get into kind of
what we expect the rotation to be going into next year.
But like Evan's going to miss a couple of games,
Jared's going to a couple of games. Right when one
(41:02):
of them is out, you can probably maybe start Nyang
at the four. You're going to have Jones come in
as the big. You're probably going to have Dean Wade
coming off the bench in those situations. I don't know
if weight it's going to be part of the regular rotation,
but automatically you have two options there, and you can
go to someone like Isaiah two right on the two
way contract. If you do have Strews miss some time, yeah,
(41:25):
you're probably going to have a little more Carousel verb
and probably a little more Isaaco Coral. But I think
those might be spots where you do have maybe Sam
Merrill fit in right in play some minutes or Ti
Jerome play a few minutes as a bigger guard that
you can have out there, right Like, It's just something
that they haven't had a lot of in the past,
and the team just seems that it's such a healthier
(41:46):
place when it comes to a depth standpoint, both in
the quality of these prospects that we're seeing go through
the Charge and overseas systems and also just you know,
with the moves they made in free agency. This is
one of the things we had talked about, which is
after making consult nation trade, usually it takes an offseason
cycle to kind of restock the deck. I think the
Cavs have done that really really well here. There's a
(42:07):
lot of prospects that I feel good about being rotation
level players. They're below the luxury tax right now, which
is going to be meaningful if they're able to stay
below that, both in avoiding the repeater tax and in
terms of what they can afford to pay with next
year's mid level exception to add, you know, more depth
to this team. There's just a lot of optionality, and
(42:28):
I think there are more versatile roster as well.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Absolutely, again, I think in a lot of ways they
have just it doesn't feel like an empty cupboard. It
doesn't feel like a shallow team that doesn't have a
lot of avenues to get better. I got a first
round pick next year, Yeah, they do. Before we wrap
on the summer league prospects, I did want to talk
about Travers, who I just adore. I just like it's
(42:55):
one of those things where it's like, man, he's having
an awesome game that I checked the box score, it's
like eight full two and two, and it's like, well,
that's probably not gonna get you over here, But like,
I just love I love the savvy. I think he
is really really I think he's the kind of guy
that whenever he wasn't on the floor, the cows kind.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
Of missed him.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I think his defense on Whitmore was legitimately great. He's
just got sneaky long arms. They're like go go gadget
arms where the guys are just never expecting them to
be as close as they are to contesting a shot.
So I think, you know, he's certainly not a this
year kind of player. And the three point jumper was
(43:36):
not where it needed to be. It still needs to
be faster. Still a little tribute Shaggy in terms of
the load up, But like man is that guy tough.
Does he know how to play basketball?
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Some of it?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I mean for a guy that only averaged two assists,
he've had like two of the best like five passes
of Summer League that I saw, So like just a
fun player. I don't know if it's ever gonna I
don't know if it's gonna work out him being a
rotation player. I think him having the size he has
on the wing is very, very helpful on that road
(44:09):
to being able to get there. But like you know,
he's a guy that even if he never comes over,
like I totally see the vision. I totally see why
a team would take a shot on a guy like
this draft and Stash because I just really like the
way he plays. He just he is my kind of
basketball player.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Man.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah, he's going to have a long, successful pro career.
He just might not be in the NBA. I think
speeding up the jump shot is going to be a
big part of it. But he does so many good
things as a connector, right like it. I really like
his overall game. And I can't remember if I made
this comparison on the last podcast or just in messaging you,
but he kind of reminds me of an Aussie Kyle Anderson,
(44:51):
right like, not a lot of foot speed, but still
a very impactful defender out there, you know, can make
those sneaky blocks and really just has a lot of
impact on the game. And I definitely see the vision
with him. I can see him being that kind of guy.
And I know I make this comp for for Korro
and other guys, but he can be kind of the
wing Tristan Thompson right where he's just a lineup completer.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
For that wing Tristan Thompson.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Right, right, Like, he's just someone that plays better when
there's more talent around him. And I just think he's
a really smart team basketball player. I really like him.
I'm going to continue following what he's doing in the NBL,
and even he hasn't played since we last talked, but
I see the vision there at least of you know,
someone with that size that can really move up and
(45:40):
down the court. These seem like the type of gambles
you want to take in the second round, right And
maybe it's even just you know, the type of you know,
NBA rights that end up getting thrown into a trade
just because the player is interesting enough, right, Like obviously
we want these guys to pan out, but not everybody's
going to pan out. There's not going to be opportunity
for everybody. And I think when you scout well and
(46:03):
you get guys that at least flash these type of skills,
it's a very very encouraging sign when it comes to
the Cavs scouting and player development.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
Absolutely, Buddy, very very fun Summer League.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Anyone else that I call your eye that you wanted
to shout out before before the Summer League adventure wraps up.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
I want to give another shout out to Sharif Cooper.
I just I like his game. He's someone you know
watching clips of mobile in the G League, and anytime
I try to tune in there, he also popped off
the screen. I just I like his overall game. I'd
love to be able to have rights to more players
(46:42):
than we can. This is one of my rants of
I think my rant initially started as I'd like to
have twelve two way spots, and I think I've settled
to a more reasonable keep the three two way. But
it'd be nice if you had a couple like G
League contracts right, like really make the G League more
of a minor league system where you can keep the
rights to guys and and focus on the development, because
(47:03):
I'd love to be able to, you know, extend an opportunity,
uh to Sharif Cooper. Pete Nantz was fun at times.
I think he moves a.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Little more or a little less fluidly.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Than I expected. Maybe that's just you know, he's a
longer player than Larry was, and I'm unfairly comparing him
to him, but he just wasn't as fluid of an athlete.
But you know, someone at that size that can kind
of shoot the ball, there's obviously an appeal in that.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, I liked Nance's minutes. I thought defensively, he showed
a lot.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
You know, you really noticed that this is a big guy.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
You know, you see the the Nance name of the
jersey and you kind of assume he's six seven six eight,
just like his brother and dad. But nope, this guy
is a true six ten six eleven legit, big with
with a good vert. You know, I think some of
the touch was there was not there, you know, I
think there were some that he smoked in transition where
(48:03):
he was catching on lobs or on hard runouts that
by the way, you get credit for that, because you know,
if you don't run hard, you're not getting these great looks.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
But you know, he didn't. He wasn't able to finish.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
And like, if he had finished all the ones that
I thought were like should finishes, I'm probably even the
Summer League going. Man, Pete Nance is just almost as
good as anyone else here. But there was there's just
that slight lack of polish.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Especially when you start getting to like NBA level rim protection.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
You've got to finish. You have to finish. But I
liked that. I liked the willingness to jump shoot. I
liked that he you know, he's got that uh he's
got the same kind of passing instincts of his brother
that I really appreciated and thought he was a nice player.
The last person I think needs a shout out is
(48:53):
Mike Garrity. I thought, I thought, not only you know,
we know Garritty has a reputation as a player development guy.
That's why you know he's coached the Charge and and
why he's been working with these guys for you know,
the past couple of years. But man, some of these
at os just eric easy buckets in frunch time.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
That chemistry that chemistry is awesome with those guys. Yeah,
he did a great job.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
It was nice, you know, it was uh, you know,
I I think like, obviously I don't know which which
member of the Cavs summer league coaching staff drew up
every out of bounds play, but I thought they played
really good team basketball and we're playing more connected than anybody.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
Else out there. M hmm, Yeah, I completely.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
And that's why they didn't lose a game and killed everyone.
Speaker 4 (49:45):
Man.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Not only that, they survived injuries, just like the big Cavs. Man,
like they they they overcame some injuries and you know what,
I'm I'm proud of I'm proud of the Fellas, the
Fellaws Junior. It was it was a lot of fun
and honestly, like my level of investment in this really
kind of solidified for me that I'm going to be
all in on the NBA tournament as well. Like, just
(50:08):
give me steaks. It doesn't even really have to matter,
it doesn't have to have a massive impact. But you
put cows on a jersey and you give me a
little bit of steaks, I want to win and I
get really really invested.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Absolutely, man, I was really rooting for him, it was
a blast legitimately the most entertaining summer league ball where
I mean even you know, we're sick ohs every year,
but most of the time I'm not looking at the score.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
No, So it was fun to actually give a damn
about what whether they won or lost, because the players
clearly did.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, and this jersey behind me twenty one, I'm going
to pretend that it's Baits and nobody asked who it
actually is. I think those that know me could make
a pretty educated guest there.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
But yeah, if you're watching live and YouTube, take a
guess as who Justin's got back there. I think it's
one of my favorite it justin shame jerseys.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Oh no, that's that's not even a shame jersey, man.
I will rock that proudly. But yeah, that's that's definitely
a fun one. Doctor Claude guesses buying them and no
it is not. No, no, God bless you, doctor Claude.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Once you get once you get through your wrap up,
I'll name it right before I cut the stream.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Well, I mean, forget being invested in calf Summer League Carter,
because there's another team that's captured my heart over the
last couple of months, and we need to talk about
them before we wrap this thing up. It's time for
sixty seconds of Sea Bears, Baby and No Carter. Winnipeg
is coming off a three game home stand since we
last recorded. The first one was an exhilarating game against
the Saskatchewan Rattlers Battle of the Prairies Carter Prairie showdown
(51:45):
between the two leagues leading scorers Teddy Allen and Justin
Wright Foreman. Winnipeg came back to take the lead in
target time, but right Foreman got the last laugh, hitting
a pull up three over Glen Yang to win ninety
eight ninety five with a target score set and ninety six.
Winnipeg and Saskatchewan split the season series, with both teams
winning on the road, but Winnipeg responded in a big way,
shooting fifty from three on their Friday night matchup against Montreal.
(52:07):
Teddy Allen put it up his usual dominant performance with
thirty three points and Winnipeger Simon Hildebrant hit the game
winning shot to seal the game. Ninety six eighty eight
and finally, a Birthday showdown for you boy between the
top two seeds in the West Play Sunday, but it
ended in the most lopsided of all the matchups, thirty
seven point thirty seven points in a game winning layup
for Allen, sealed though one hundred and seventy five victory
(52:28):
over Calgary, giving the Good Guys a two and a
half game lead for the top seed in the Western Conference.
Oh God, I got it in.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
God, I'm good. Very well done, sir. Long live Teddy Buckets,
Long lived Teddy Buckets.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
And long live my obsession with just absurd shot takers,
Teddy Allen's shot brand, my friend, I have a brand,
I have multiple. I love my shotchuckers, and I love
players like Craig Porter Junior that just got you know,
just got that nice feel at the point.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
A few another guests we have in the chat from
from Ben as JJ Hickson.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Oh I wish I wish I had a JJ Hickson jersey.
If anyone could track one down for me, I would
gladly rock that. It's Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 4 (53:15):
Oh, getting wiggy with it.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
You're getting wiggy with it, Big. Thanks to everyone the
tune in live on YouTube. We appreciate you guys hanging
out with us. Big shout out to the twenty twenty
three NBA Summer League Champs. Can you even Cavaliers? If
you're listening on YouTube and you want to support us,
like subscribe, click notification bells you know when we're going live.
You're listening via podcast and you want to support us,
leave us ratingly, review, subscribe, unsubscribe to you, subscripment, help
(53:37):
cook those books. If you want to be part of
Chasdown's exclusive discord chats and a screenshotther review to Chase
down potgmail dot com. However you choose to support us,
we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are
staying safe out there. Until next time, Go.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Castor Doctors SA
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, Carl left wing rere ball perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Then he block the shot at the rim how with
the left hand and a fowl.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Twenty twenty three NBA Summer League champs, the Cleveland Cavaliers
have done the damn thing, going undefeated in Vegas. Welcome
to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the cas Media family.
I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented
by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels of live
sports and TV for half the cost of cable. There's
no contract and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV
(00:39):
dot com. Joining me today to discuss this latest championship
for the Cleveland Cavaliers is my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Carter Hey doing Buddy.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
The Boys of Summer the champions Uh what a run
for your Summer League Cavaliers going undefeated through Summer League play,
defeating uh nay, destroying the Houston Rockets in the championship game,
and destroying pretty much everyone else en route to what
I would call the most impressive Summer League run in
(01:11):
the history of the league.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And here's why. Justin.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It was all pretty fun to watch, and that is
a miracle, and your whole argument, I was really I
was expecting bullet pop.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I was expecting fun. It was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It was good, real honest basketball, A team of players
who actually like ran at os and tried to help
each other play better. It was It was really fun.
It was a It was a really nice I felt
like it was in a way and this is like
asking it to be too much, but like, you know,
(01:50):
like the way the season ended was such a bomber and.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You're already going to go too far with this.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
No no free agency, free agency. It was nice and
this was just a nice palate cleanser, Like I'm fully
refreshed and ready ready to long for the season that
is still forever away. So a very very fun summer
league for the boys. And yeah, a lot of good stuff,
(02:18):
a lot of interesting stuff to actually take away, which
is nice.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, I was worried you were going to say, you know,
this makes up for all of it. This exercises all
the demons. I got demons that we're going to be
exercising all year. I'm going to be taking it out
on random teams throughout the eighty two game regular season
and actually, you know what, let's call it eighty three
because the Cavs are going to win the NBA Cup
as well. This was just step one of the Revenge Tour.
(02:44):
Twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. I'm all in. You're smiling, Carter.
You like this, you like this enters here right now.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, man, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It was fun to have a team that was just
really good and like the people who I was really
invested in playing well all well, and like, you know,
you just left with a lot of a lot of
good takeaways. And you know, we often say that, you know,
summer league doesn't prove that you belong in the league,
(03:13):
but it it often can be kind of exclusionary, Like
like if it's a year two or year three for
you as a pro, it's your second or third time
in Vegas and it's still not looking so good, then
you know it's it's a rough sign.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I know, Bulls fans are miserable that our pre draft ull,
really your pre draft favorite Dalen Terry had a really
rough summer league, and it's like, yeah, well it's pretty
concerning when your when your top picks aren't doing well.
But when when your second round picks that you know,
as I've said multiple times, you're just looking for one
to hit. That's all you want. And for the fact
(03:48):
that you know you had three or four guys really
flash some stuff. And that's not to say only four
guys played well, but I'm talking like really, like I
had games where they were dominant. To have that in
your back pocket was really fun. It just kind of
feels like those chances of finding a rotation player in
this group, in this kind of morass of Summer League
(04:12):
second rounders and two way players, like felt a little
more possible than I think maybe I thought it would
coming in.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, And one of the reasons we said prior to
Summer League that this is the kind of team that
could go out and win a Summer League championship is
it's just the right mix of guys, right, Like, you
don't have any of those high lottery picks that are
going to get shut down after two games, which we
saw even Houston, you know, shut down some of their guys.
Prior to this game.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You had not Cam Whitmore though that was done by
Luke Travers, very well played.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You also have guys that have played together. Right, Like
we said, this is going to be an environment that's
more conducive to Isaiah Mobley looking good because he's playing
for Mike Garrity, right, he's playing with Shariff Cooper, who
he had a lot of success with throughout the G
League season. Sam Merrill was a guy that played together,
So you have that continuity. You have guys that have
played together, that have run actions together, and I think
(05:08):
that experience really showed through. And also some of these
guys are older, right, like Sam Merril, you would definitely
hope that he looks good. He's twenty seven years old,
he's on a pro contract. We know this is a
guy that moves around, has a lot of savvy and
can shoot the hell out of the ball.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And she shows a little unfair.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
You know what, Garter, maybe we could say this, the
Cavs have really learned how important spacing is and in
the NBA, and they applied that even to the G League.
They took out the secret weapon, the nuclear bomb that
is Sam Merril, and.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That was a camp counselor playing with the camper's energy
at times in terms of his like know how, even
when he wasn't playing well. I was like, Yeah, this
guy's just clearly older and more experienced and just knows
what Ellie's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, and having him and Emoni both just in a
way shooting well from three that made a big difference.
Opened up the passing lanes for Craig Porter Junior Isaiah Mobley.
I was really impressed. I thought early on in that
final game against Houston you could tell he was going
to get the MVP for that game because everything was
running through him and they were getting consistently good looks
(06:19):
throughout that game. He was dominating guys. I love that
he's out there talking trash, like I'm sure ninety percent
of the times that they muted the basket mics in
that game, which was a lot. I think that had
to do with Isaiah because he's just talking trash out there.
He's leading by example, and most of the players for
(06:40):
Houston were just a little too small to guard him.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I do think you have to start summer any summer
league discussion with Mobley because I just thought he was,
you know, far and away the best player for the team.
You know, I think Merrill obviously had, you know, his
volcanic moments merrill isn't wasn't the hub. They weren't operating
through him really on both ends of the ball. After Khalifa,
(07:06):
Jopp left the team to go fulfill some obligations with
his pro club. I see it's your boy in chat
asking about what happened with him. He had to go
back and do his other job. But yeah, I thought
he really was. He helped anchor them on the defensive
end by just being a great talker, great communicator, always
being the right spot.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Game.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, he led, led the team and assists.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I believe maybe overstay. Yeah, he overtook him in the
last game, averaging game.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I believe it if you can believe it. Pretty hard
to sort summer league stats on NBA dot Com. But
uh but yeah, so like I thought that, you know,
he he operated the hub. He attacked after some early
summer league kind of adventurous post ups where you know,
he was starting some games like four of four of
(07:57):
twelve on all bunnies, you know, where he wasn't finishing.
I thought the last two games he kind of saved
his best for last as a finisher, really displayed a
great touch and footwork, you know, was doing kind of
these you know, mini euro steps on the way to
the rim with a with a smaller guy kind of
on his chest almost using his elbows to protect his
shot on on those euro steps towards the rim, so
(08:18):
he could just kind of float it up. A ton
of craft is a score, A ton of craft is
a foul drawer hit a few step back threes. I
think the three remains the one thing that you really
want to see, like feel really good, and it just
didn't feel really good, you know. Uh, you know it
was still a bit of an adventure for him on
that front. Uh, but yeah, I mean ultimately just an awesome,
(08:40):
awesome summer league for Isaah Mobley. And I don't know,
justin like you know, you we've talked about this and
we're gonna have to have this discussion quite a bit
with MOBILEI Porter Jr. And maybe baits with that with
that last roster spot or two is you know, I
think there are going to be some folks that say,
why aren't why aren't we calling them up the big club?
(09:00):
Why aren't they why aren't they going up to main contracts?
And you know it's one of those things where you
I think you've really made a smart point that if
you do, if you're not planning on any of those
three being in your playoff rotation, you might be better
off keeping them as two ways for the year and
giving yourself that flexibility to go fill that roster elsewhere,
(09:21):
knowing that you know, you can always convert them in
a pinch if you really need to, you know, prior
to that deadline at the end of the year. So
but what I'll say about mobilely for me, and I'm
curious what you think, Like, I just think this was
a real reassurance that he can probably be a pro.
(09:41):
He could be a fourth big and acquit himself well
on a good team.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I went into the Summer League still a little curious
because frankly, his summer league last year was not very good.
And you know, he had a nice year in the
G League, but a lot of guys can have nice
years in the league, and I really wanted to see, like,
does he feel like he's taking taking a meaningful step forward?
And I do feel like he has, And I am
a lot more confident than I was beginning of Summer
(10:09):
League that this is a guy that could be you know,
maybe not in your everyday of rotation, but be a
guy like Lamar was last year that could come in,
keep you afloat, have some give you good minutes, and
contribute to a winning team.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
On and off the floor. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I think the important thing to keep in mind
with these two way contracts is they are eligible to
play NBA games, right, Like, there is a cap on that.
But if you are in need, you can have Craig
Porter Junior come in. You can have a Mony Baits play,
you can have Isaiah Mobley come in. Two years ago.
It's easy to forget that we had Brandon Goodwin playing
so many games for US just because of how many
(10:46):
injuries we had to the point guard position.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
So he really does come down to kind of two questions,
which is one, do you expect these guys to play
playoff minutes because if they're not, having them on the
two way contract doesn't burn up any other eligibility. This
is kind of a more common thing with NHL MLB,
you know, leagues that have more of a kind of
refined minor league system. Is sometimes you do kind of
(11:11):
have those call ups, but when you start that rookie
contract is really important, and I think it's going to
be important with the new CBA. But there is a
flip side of this too, right, which is you only
have control over three guys when it comes to those
two way contracts, and if you really do like someone
like Shreef Cooper, you may want to promote someone like
Isaiah Mobley saying, hey, we need a big man in
(11:33):
this rotation. We think he can be that fourth or
fifth big for us. Depending on how you want to
view and use Nang, maybe that's the direction you go
to give Shereef Cooper a two way contract, because I
still I really like his vision as a pastor. I
think he's got a lot of talent. I actually just
saw him the other day share kind of a splits
(11:54):
of him prior to an injury he suffered last year
in the G League's season, And you know, that's the
type of context that we don't have, right, Like I
can talk about, well, you know, Darius was playing in
January with a shooting hand injury, and like, we're aware
of all the nuances throughout a cast season, but when
we're just looking at G League stats, that's the type
of stuff that can get missed. And I just really
(12:15):
like kind of his feeling as a passer. So I
wouldn't say having his rights is so important that you
have to promote one of these guys. But that's an
option or that's a consideration that may go into this process.
And maybe it might come down to are we able
to add one more guy in free agency?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Like are does the mid level exception market dry up
to the extent where all of a sudden, someone like
Bismack Biyondbo, as an example, is willing to sign for
the minimum on a one year deal. And you have
that depth at the big man position, and you don't
want to use that on mobile, right. So there's a
lot of things that will go into it. But I
agree with you. I think what we saw last year
(12:53):
in the G League, he was clearly the best player
on the charge. He took a big step forward I
think from last year in Summer League, and I just
really like his feel he can give you. It reminds
me of Al Horford as a guy that you can
kind of run offense through a little undersize, but just
has a lot of craft, great footwork, and I don't
(13:13):
think you're going to see seven eight second post ups
for him when he's playing with the Cavs. But I
do think that the passing and some of the other
things that you see from him can translate it and
would work well within that team concept.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I was just kind of looking at the Cavs minutes
last year because you know, you kind of look at
the fact that he really didn't get any run last year.
He only played eighty four minutes total, and most of
those were at the end of the year. He was
playing like thirty minutes a game down the stretch. But
like you look at Robin Lopez played three hundred minutes
(13:46):
last year, Momity d T played one hundred and seventy five.
That's just under five hundred minutes, And like, I do
feel like those are you know, some of those minutes
are going to go to Damian Jones. Like it's going
to be harder to find the Mamity dues in this
year's iteration of the Cavaliers, probably just because there's so
(14:06):
much deeper. I mean, Lamar played eleven hundred minutes last year.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, and he wasn't even in the rotation to start
the year.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, a non planned rotation player, Uh, you know, twenty minutes.
I don't think that's gonna be the case, barring some
pretty major injuries and some pretty major surprises for your
ninth tenth man. Uh And you know, obviously if you're
on A two A, you're certainly not that. So you know,
(14:34):
I think Mobiley is going to get a chance to
get some run. I think there's gonna be some matchups
where they go, actually, we'd prefer you to Danmian Jones,
and you're active tonight, so why not. But like it
is gonna be a h it's gonna be an unlikely
road for consistent minutes there, which means we're just gonna
like we're gonna have He's probably gonna spend another year
(14:55):
mostly with the Charge, and like that's the flexibility you
buy yourself while you're giving in these guys time to
develop and trying to win a championship, Like I do think.
You know, if I wonder, justin if this for the
Cavs of three and a half four years ago, if
he would be a full time player right now.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I think so. I think so, because yeah, you're looking
to develop any under twenty five talent at that point,
right And I think it's very clear that the minutes
he got last year were really beneficial to him, and
I remember years ago we were talking to Dave two
four and he was crediting Mike Gerrity of just how
good of a developmental coach this guy is. And I
(15:34):
think you really saw, even in this small glimpse in
Summer League, in terms of just how prepared everybody was
on such a short turnaround time, the buying you got
from guys like a Moony Baits, and how much better
he got throughout just six games working with him, right Like,
this is not far removed from the draft, and I
just got everybody settled into their role as well. And
(15:56):
I think you can see the skill development for someone
like Isaiah Moulble how much he's benefited from that year
with Garrity. So I think he needs to deserve a
shout out here one. And I think this is part
of what makes the Charges move back to Cleveland so important.
That you do have easier connections, You have that continuity,
(16:17):
you can practice with one another, right you can. It's
easier for the coaches to communicate. You can have someone
like Garrity there working with these guys and developing kind
of that next round of talent, because I mean it's
really encouraging that the one guy we had on an
NBA contract, and the three two way guys all looked
very good in this setting, and you can see the
(16:39):
path that each of them contributing in some way at
an NBA level. Right, That's what you really really want
to see. And honestly, I feel good about our guest booking,
even like having Adam Spanella on. I feel like everything
he said was kind of on the money that Isaiah
Moble is the guy that I see as most ready
to get an NBA contract at some point here. And
(17:00):
the other thing that he pointed out was regarding Amoni
Baits that you know, in you know, hearing what his
camp is saying and everything, that this is a guy
that's eager to kind of push aside some of the
misconceptions about his game. He really wants to round out
his game. He knows what the criticisms are and he's
willing to work at it. And that was my big
impression from Summer League. But more than even Isaiah and
(17:24):
how he improved, it was just how much growth Emoney
had over those six games and the way that his
style of played as he got more comfortable with these guys.
Obviously there's still warts there. He's got a ways to go.
I think he is going to need time in the
G League, probably a season or two there, but I
can see the path to him being a rotation player
(17:46):
in the NBA much clearer than I did after watching
him one game in Summer League.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, that was a tough one game was that he
opened up with and you know, all your if you
were a doubt or all your worst fears were kind
of coming true from Jump Street. But you know, he
flashed the stuff that you know when we add at
him on and Adam did not have Baits highly ranked
on his big board. It's not like he was, you know,
a huge a money Baits fan, but he kind of
talked about did the true upside, which was He's like,
(18:14):
I think the joke not joke he made was like
Michael Porter junior cross with Jordan Poole, uh as his
like truest up up up at the upside. You know,
I'm not I'm still not so sure about that, but
like he does, there is value in a six '
nine player with a high quick release that is not
(18:35):
afraid to shoot it, that has shooting talent, you know,
like that that is that is hard for teams to
deal with especially at the summer league level, where you know,
there were guys who were closing out pretty well, but
he just had a cleaner sight line en route to
being able to to make a make a shot. You know,
I was really pleased to see him have some efficient nights.
(18:57):
I was really pleased to see him make some nice aids,
showing a little bit more passing. I don't think anyone
will ever mistake this guy for a point guard. But
unless you're Memphis, unless you're Penny Hardaway. Uh, But like,
like I think that, you know, he showed enough playmaking
juice that like, maybe not that I would ever say,
(19:19):
like I'm gonna project him as a really good playmaker,
because I'm not sure that's who he's gonna be. I
really do think he's going to be a you know,
try and get get buckets when they're there, if they're
not there, drive and kick. I think that's his first
step as as a as an NBA rotation player, if
he's going to get there. However, it shows a a
an ability to value the right play enough, you know, uh,
(19:43):
finding finding Meryll and semi transition with Merrill is scorching
the nets instead of taking the pull up for himself
finding Craig Porter Junior cutting down the middle of the
lane like these are these are not you know, these
are not Steve Steve Nashian plays, but they're they They
belie a little bit more basketball IQ than frankly he
showed in college. And you know, it kind of goes
(20:06):
to show to some extent, like what operating in the
healthy ecosystem, like with four other players on the floor
most of the time that like to pass like that,
like to move like that, how that can have an
infectious impact on the way you play.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, And honestly, it made me just think of, you know,
how context dependent a lot of players performances are, right Like,
obviously he was miscast in Memphis and was dealing with
a back injury, and you look at Eastern Michigan and
that's not typically a spot where you see NBA prospects
come out of And whether it was you know, just
(20:41):
falling to forty nine and that's when the buying clicked,
or maybe it was just you know, not getting the
proper coaching prior to then, just seeing the growth and
how coachable he appeared to be in this setting is
really encouraging, and I think It's important that we don't
really kind of just dismiss people as you know, two
dimensional caricatures of who they are, Like these are real
(21:04):
human beings with depth and they can learn from their experiences.
And you know, what Adams said was bang on right,
Like this is a guy that's willing to put in
the work. And what I like about Adam too is
his evaluation of players never feels like it's justifying the
ranking he has because having him lower would be like, okay,
(21:24):
I need to you know, this is a guy that
has a lot of hypiea, has a lot of people
that are in his corner and whatnot. He didn't do that.
It was okay, this is where I have him. But
this is the upside, Like I still believe in his
talent that he's talking about it, you know, objectively and
disconnected from his rankings. And after the Summer League Championship,
(21:45):
I was reading in an article from Mike Curtis of
the Detroit News. He did a great interview with a
Emoni and he I just want to read a couple
of little excerpts from it because I'm now all the
way in on this guy in rooting for him to
you know, overcome the obstacle and become.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
A rotation player.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So the first quote is people from my basketball experience
feel I'm a hype guy when I play. I talk
stuff and things like that, so people take my on
the court and put as my off the court. He's
a kid with a bad attitude, So I'm just trying
to show people the other side of Amoni. And the
other thing he mentioned was that therapy has been big
for him in kind of overcoming things. Therapy has helped
me a lot. Talk to my therapist, you know, got
(22:23):
me through a lot of hurdles. I feel like that's
why I'm as stable as I am today, being able
to get off things. There's a lot of stuff going
on in my mind, just little stuff, but with therapy
you can have someone you can talk to and it's confidential,
it's not going to get out. And that was a
blessing for me for sure. Like this seems like a
really kind of self aware kid, and I'm really excited
to see what a year with the Charge is going
(22:46):
to do for him like it did for Isaiah. Like
there's just such a clear path to someone with this
basketball skill set making it to the NBA level, Like
you said he's a six ' nine shooter six nine
wings fan shot forty in summer league. I'm I'm not.
I don't care about percentages in summer league at all, Carter,
(23:06):
I don't know how you evaluate it. I don't care
scam sample size, Yeah, I don't. I don't care one
way or another whether it's good or bad. I'm just
looking for the flashes. I'm looking for things, skill sets
that I say that can translate to a team context.
And I think I think he flashed that. I think
the playmaking as a connector is encouraging. But that's never
going to be what you count on him for, right
(23:27):
Like you want him to go out there and get buckets,
and honestly, I want him to do enough of the
little things that justifies him taking some tough shots, because
you know me, Carter, I love a heat check player.
I can live you like I can live with tough shots.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Maker. You can't.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
You can't help yourself with it, you know, I think
I would if i'm If I'm coaching Imani, I am
showing a lot of Michael Porter junior tape, watching the
way he's learned to with a similarly limited frame athletically,
especially post injuries. You know, Porter doesn't move crazy, but
he's a big, tall guy that can use his length
(24:03):
to not die on the defensive end. At this point
in his career. He you know, two years ago, everyone
was crapping on Mike Malone for not playing him enough,
and I think it was well deserved. You know, he
was a guy who would space out and really hurt
the team on that end, and he got good enough
to stay on the court. And then on offense, he
really doesn't do that much besides shoot. You know, like
(24:25):
he shoots and he cuts, he and he takes point
blank layups. But because he's such a gifted shooter and
is playing with the best playmaker in the league in
Nicole Jokic, he gets a really steady diet of great looks.
Also because of his size that you know, you can
waltz your way to twenty points in a game pretty
(24:46):
easy when you're him. So I would be watching a
lot of Porter junior tape if I'm Bates, especially since
he's also a guy who kind of was this valley
hued prospect fell in the draft, not as far as
the money did, obviously, but you know, and then had
had to figure out how to get his coach to
let him play, you know. And I hope jb on
(25:10):
the nights where Amani is up on the main roster
and the Caps have this luxury that even the Nuggets
didn't have with with Porter Jr. Which is that unless
he does everything right, he's not going to get to play,
you know, and he's gonna have to. And so I
think Porter Jr. In a lot of ways is a
really nice role model for Bates to model his game after,
(25:30):
because you know, I think the best version of Bates
looks a lot like that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, No, I think you're on the money there, And
you know, it helps that, you know, Donovan Mitchell appears
to have reached down and taken him under his wing
as well, that they have a relationship going back the
last couple of years, like you know, just another example
of Donnie being kind of the consummate professional and someone
that's been really bought in, like you hear Max Struce.
George Nianing. George Niang had an interview with Carmen and
(25:58):
Lima today. He was a lot of fun on there.
He says when when the NBA Cup, He's gonna buy
Happy Hour for whatever bar he's out of downtown Cleveland,
so we got to hold him to that. And maybe
I'll even come down for that. But you know, like
they talk about how you know, don and Mitchell is recruiting,
he's he wants people to be here, and I think
(26:19):
it's really encouraging foreremony to have someone like Mitchell, you know,
take him under his wings. And I'm just excited to
see where this can go. And I'm excited that, you know,
none of these guys are high picked, like even Sam Merrill,
like sixtieth pick in the draft, Isaiah Mobley, late pick,
Luke Travers late pick, do you second round pick? All
(26:39):
of these guys have skill sets that I say, okay,
that can translate to the NBA. I'm not counting on
all these guys to hit, but this is the type
of value in the margins you need to find, especially
after you made a consolidation trade. And it's just encouraging
that even you know, someone like Craig Porter Junior, that
guy I'm pretty sure is going to be an NBA
(26:59):
player at some point. Like as much as I'm convinced
that Isaiah Mobley is a pro, at this point, I
think Craig Porter Junior has a very clear path to
be that at some point within the next two years.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You love your boy.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I'm so your kind of player, and you know, I think,
obviously I'm going to start actually with the stuff that's
limiting right now because I'm trying to talk myself down.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
You need to bounce me, uf. This is the dynamic
of the podcast. Go for it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, I am, I am. I'm a little disappointed in
the jumper. It looked like he was a lot more
confident at the college range right now, because he took
a decent volume at Wichita State last year, both catch
and shoot and off the bounce, and right now it's
like you can kind of see him trying to find
his range, Like you can kind of see him loading up.
(27:52):
And he also does a bit of a weird thing
with this point. I don't know if you noticed, this
kind of fades away as he rides rises, And I
think that's hard when you go out.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
To NBA range to do that. And I wonder if
that's just.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
A you know, maybe an evolutionary trait of being a
small guard often being guarded by bigger players. But like
you know, especially on catching shoots, you just gotta go
straight up and you got to you gotta get it
up there with with impunity. So I don't think as
much as I love Porter right now, I don't think
he's like there's some folks that are like, you know,
he should be an active roster player right now. He
(28:24):
should be challenging Ty Jerome for third guard mans right now,
And I don't think that's true, because if you're gonna
be a role player, you have to shoot, you know.
I think, you know, we talk about good role players
for Amoni Bates. You know, what I think would be
a great role model for Porter Junior would be Javon Carter,
(28:44):
a similarly undersized point guard, uh with a defensive reputation.
It has more on ball juice and more jump shooting
juice than people understood.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But like Carter had to turn himself into a guy
who can open three every time he had it and
showed that he had that shot making skill in order
to really earn himself a rotation spot in the league.
Similarly an older player as well. I think he was
a four year player at West Virginia. So, like, I
think there's some really good analogs for these guys that
that these players can look to and say, oh, that
(29:19):
guy is not that different from me, and he's going
to have a ten year career, and so can I.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
No, I completely agree, and I think obviously it's easy
to get excited about this group. There were a lot
of fun playing together. Obviously, you know, winning the championship
on this stage, it's all very encouraging. But there's no
substitute for playing time. And the Cavs are a team
with a lot of depth, especially when it comes to
(29:45):
the guard pa they are yeah, yeah, but like Garland, Mitchell, Lavert,
Rubio Tije Rome, even Sam Merrill as a guard on
this team, Max Drews can play some guard minutes there,
Isaaca Kor can obviously play it as a shoe and guard.
Getting minutes is really really important, and we've seen, you know,
(30:06):
being in the charge system, being around the Cavs coaches
and whatnot like that can really benefit guys and as
much as it can be annoying and it's obnoxious when
you listen to Heat fans talk about you know, Heat
culture and their player development and.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
They use the sky Force incredibly.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Well, like Orlando Robinson.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Man, my god, they use the sky Force incredibly well,
and that's how they're able to develop these undrafted guys
and second round picks. They find guys with a certain
skill set and they develop the hell out of them.
They say, Okay, this is something we think can translate
to the NBA level. Let's round them out a little
bit as rotation players. Let's get them in the system,
and let's develop them in the G League with the
(30:48):
expectation that they can move their way up to be
rotation guys that can come in and fill the gaps.
I think the Calves have an opportunity to do that.
With Craig Porter Jr. I agree with you. I think,
you know, beating up the jump shot, changing a couple
of things when it comes to the form, you know,
getting the consistency, getting a more confident with the pull up,
working with Isaiah and everyone else that's going to be
(31:11):
there in the G League. I think that can do
him a lot of good. And I think it's going
to help him be a better pro when that day
does come where you promote him to the NBA level,
because I do think that that day is going to come,
I think, but I think giving him the best chance
possible to get off his career on the right foot
really is really beneficial. And we went out and got depth,
(31:35):
We got veterans, we got NBA level players at those positions,
and I just think that, you know that it's the
right kind of approach that you need to take with
these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, and now that I got the skepticism stuff out
of the way, what a cool player. What a player
that so vibes with my aesthetic, you know, hit ahead
passes in transition. Every time a big ran the floor,
he made sure that they caught the ball in stride
with a good chance to finish. Really crafty stop and
(32:08):
go attacks at the rim when he got switches, even
sometimes when they weren't so well spaced above the rim,
or rebounding.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Three rebounds Carter, he was behind only Mobley and jop
as a rebounder for the Cavs.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I mean, like, it was just really cool to
see him be a guy who attacked boards and then
used that as an advantage to go push and run
and get the team easy buckets, you know. And I
think that that is something that the team was just
so clearly missing last year. They were not a good
(32:50):
non big rebounding team, and it's part of the reason
why the Knicks did what they did to them on
the offensive glass. So seeing a guy that is that
is going to leap, grab and go and really attack
that into the basketball was really really encouraging to see.
(33:10):
I thought, the finishing and also finishing above the rim
when he got a step. You know, sometimes you see
these athletic, smaller guards and you know it'll remain to
be seen be seen as he keeps jumping up different levels.
But you know, he dunked a lot in his highlight
tapes at which is a state like you saw a
lot of those, and I was like, okay, but is
(33:31):
this going to work with bigger, stronger, you know, non
witch state competition bigs around the rim. And yeah, he's
so explosive and such a smart cutter that he generated
really clean angles for himself to do so, especially as
an off ball player, which you don't normally see from
these kind of dominantly guards. We'll see what it looks
(33:52):
like at the next next level, you know, once he's
playing against NBA competition. But I do think the fact
that he can get such explosion vertically really bodes well
for his ability to finish at the next level, because
you know, that's that's going to be a challenge, especially
if the jumper is an elite. If the jumper just
(34:13):
kind of caps out as okay, he can't be you know,
a forty percent at the rim guy. He's going to
have to be a guy who scores well from two
point range. And I think he's got a chance to
do that.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, I think he does as well. I liked his
shot creation in the mid range was a little better
than I expected. He had some big shots in particularly
that game against the Nets. I just really really like
his all around game. I think he's got great, great
feel as a floor general as well, and that's that's
the most important thing. Like, that's the thing that I
think really translates along with his defense and man like,
(34:48):
if you can run a good offense and you play defense,
I think you have a spot on an NBA bench
at the very least. And the ability to shoot would
really you know, keep the defenses honest and bring it
all home.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Here's an unconventional comp or a guy that you know,
managed to never got a great jumper but has lasted
forever in the league.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Russ doing those things hilarious. Is Smith great handle?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Not a big guy probably Porters, probably bigger than him.
I don't hate it, but like just a guy who
found a way to stick with craft and an explosiveness.
So you know, I really liked what he gave us.
One little note about his defense, one little nitpick. You
can tell he doesn't He kind of likes getting on
(35:38):
someone's back hip so we can kind of challenge from behind.
That is not going to work in the NVA. The
guys are too big, too strong, probably, and he's going
to have to find a way to stay in front
and just uses in.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
The shot blocking is going to have to come on
on weak side stuff, not not on ball.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
See, this is why it's important that we keep you around,
because when when I when I fall for a prospect,
I fall hard, and I'm all the way sold on him.
I'm as sold on Craig Porter Jr. As I am
on the video conference. Thing we get from Zoom support
for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom.
Half a million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform
for phone, chat, workspaces, events, apps, and video. Zoom enables
(36:17):
real time collaboration for teams around the globe Zoom, how
the world can act Carter. I guess we don't have
to spend too too much time on sam Merril and
Luke Travers. I liked obviously what sam Merril was doing.
It's fun to see him shoot the hell out of
the ball. I don't think he's going to be part
of the regular rotation for the Cavs, but I do
think it's nice. One of the things you want to
(36:38):
have when it comes to team building is redundancy, and
I think he gives you a little bit of that.
He's not as well round as Max Druce, and I
think any situation where you would play sam Merril, he's
where he'd probably play Max Rus. But just having this
option at you know, the Calves were one of the
league leaders when it came to blowout wins last year.
I think they're going to be really good again next here.
(37:01):
You're gonna have opportunities to play him there. Injuries obviously
come up, you know, situations where you just want to
give him some burn to go out there. I think
all of that's important. Having a guard that can go
in there, that you know, relocates really well, finds those
passing lanes and can space the floor. I think it's
nice to have someone like zam Meryl out there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I think with your eleventh, twelve thirteenth men, you either
want you kind of want one of three archetypes. You
want the wily vet that's there just to teach and
you're not really expecting to ever get to play. You
want the prospect that you're kind of given burn to
and when you can and developing them in the background
and all that stuff. And then the third thing you
(37:44):
want is just a replication of what you already have.
You want to if if Max Truce missus you know,
five games because he turns his ankle. It's nice to
be able to run the same stuff. Yeah, for at
least part of the minutes that he's being replaced with.
I think this was something they had a hard time with.
(38:04):
I talked about it like a month ago whenever Robin
Lopez came in. Not only you know, obviously, I do
think Lopez was a little bit limited with what he
had left, but it was all of a sudden, but
whenever he played, it was like all of a sudden, like, wait,
how do we use a guy like this? What are
we supposed to do with you? I guess you can
post up, We'll give you the ball, like they didn't.
(38:26):
It just felt like they kind of had to change
a lot of what they did schematically to figure out
how to play, you know, an older plotting center that
was more of a bruiser. So I think Merrill. I
think meryll spot long term is going to remain in jeopardy.
I think, you know, if the Cavs had gone out
and signed someone else that was, you know, a different
(38:48):
archetype of player with their free agency money other than
Ty Jerome, George Knihangen, Max Strus, I think Sam Meryl
would feel a little bit more secure about his long
term future. Just editorializing a little bit there, but I
do think there is value in having that redundancy. I
think you're spot on with that. I think he's shown
that he can do that. I do think he's an
(39:10):
NBA level shooter, and against Ben Chewing it's I think
he's okay on defense. He's not gonna be great, but
you kind of hope. I think what you kind of
hope there is like you have the they the other
team just starts breaking their offense trying to iso. You know,
you get some tangential benefits there with with guys in
(39:30):
that archetype. So I think he can play at the
NBA level.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I think.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
He would be best served like if he could play
next to like a bigger point guard, you know, where
he could you know, maybe hide, he could hide a
little bit more, uh when he does get if he
were to become a rotation player somewhere. But like you know,
ultimately I think he's a good fit here. He's a
good culture fit, even like you know, I don't know
(39:57):
what happened behind the scenes to to have Sam I'll
go to Summer League at his age because he's certainly
one of the older players there.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Like I said, they were valuing shooting baby.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Calves are all about, you know, I do think there's
value in having a guy that one wants to go still,
that's on your main roster at that at that level,
at that point in his career, and also that you
can ask to go. That's like, hey, Sam, go help
coach Garretty install some stuff, help make things easier for
everyone developmentally. And I definitely was very very pleased. I
(40:29):
think he acquitted himself literally as well as he could
have in a summer league setting, just to show that
he was, you know, he was a little.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Too good for the setting, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
He definitely was, And yeah, I just I like that
there is redundancy right now when it comes to the
Cow's roster, Like you're going to have guys miss time
throughout the year, and we can get into kind of
what we expect the rotation to be going into next year.
But like Evan's going to miss a couple of games,
Jared's going to a couple of games. Right when one
(41:02):
of them is out, you can probably maybe start Nyang
at the four. You're going to have Jones come in
as the big. You're probably going to have Dean Wade
coming off the bench in those situations. I don't know
if weight it's going to be part of the regular rotation,
but automatically you have two options there, and you can
go to someone like Isaiah two right on the two
way contract. If you do have Strews miss some time, yeah,
(41:25):
you're probably going to have a little more Carousel verb
and probably a little more Isaaco Coral. But I think
those might be spots where you do have maybe Sam
Merrill fit in right in play some minutes or Ti
Jerome play a few minutes as a bigger guard that
you can have out there, right Like, It's just something
that they haven't had a lot of in the past,
and the team just seems that it's such a healthier
(41:46):
place when it comes to a depth standpoint, both in
the quality of these prospects that we're seeing go through
the Charge and overseas systems and also just you know,
with the moves they made in free agency. This is
one of the things we had talked about, which is
after making consult nation trade, usually it takes an offseason
cycle to kind of restock the deck. I think the
Cavs have done that really really well here. There's a
(42:07):
lot of prospects that I feel good about being rotation
level players. They're below the luxury tax right now, which
is going to be meaningful if they're able to stay
below that, both in avoiding the repeater tax and in
terms of what they can afford to pay with next
year's mid level exception to add, you know, more depth
to this team. There's just a lot of optionality, and
(42:28):
I think there are more versatile roster as well.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Absolutely, again, I think in a lot of ways they
have just it doesn't feel like an empty cupboard. It
doesn't feel like a shallow team that doesn't have a
lot of avenues to get better. I got a first
round pick next year, Yeah, they do. Before we wrap
on the summer league prospects, I did want to talk
about Travers, who I just adore. I just like it's
(42:55):
one of those things where it's like, man, he's having
an awesome game that I checked the box score, it's
like eight full two and two, and it's like, well,
that's probably not gonna get you over here, But like,
I just love I love the savvy. I think he
is really really I think he's the kind of guy
that whenever he wasn't on the floor, the cows kind.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
Of missed him.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I think his defense on Whitmore was legitimately great. He's
just got sneaky long arms. They're like go go gadget
arms where the guys are just never expecting them to
be as close as they are to contesting a shot.
So I think, you know, he's certainly not a this
year kind of player. And the three point jumper was
(43:36):
not where it needed to be. It still needs to
be faster. Still a little tribute Shaggy in terms of
the load up, But like man is that guy tough.
Does he know how to play basketball?
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Some of it?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I mean for a guy that only averaged two assists,
he've had like two of the best like five passes
of Summer League that I saw, So like just a
fun player. I don't know if it's ever gonna I
don't know if it's gonna work out him being a
rotation player. I think him having the size he has
on the wing is very, very helpful on that road
(44:09):
to being able to get there. But like you know,
he's a guy that even if he never comes over,
like I totally see the vision. I totally see why
a team would take a shot on a guy like
this draft and Stash because I just really like the
way he plays. He just he is my kind of
basketball player.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Man.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah, he's going to have a long, successful pro career.
He just might not be in the NBA. I think
speeding up the jump shot is going to be a
big part of it. But he does so many good
things as a connector, right like it. I really like
his overall game. And I can't remember if I made
this comparison on the last podcast or just in messaging you,
but he kind of reminds me of an Aussie Kyle Anderson,
(44:51):
right like, not a lot of foot speed, but still
a very impactful defender out there, you know, can make
those sneaky blocks and really just has a lot of
impact on the game. And I definitely see the vision
with him. I can see him being that kind of guy.
And I know I make this comp for for Korro
and other guys, but he can be kind of the
wing Tristan Thompson right where he's just a lineup completer.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
For that wing Tristan Thompson.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Right, right, Like, he's just someone that plays better when
there's more talent around him. And I just think he's
a really smart team basketball player. I really like him.
I'm going to continue following what he's doing in the NBL,
and even he hasn't played since we last talked, but
I see the vision there at least of you know,
someone with that size that can really move up and
(45:40):
down the court. These seem like the type of gambles
you want to take in the second round, right And
maybe it's even just you know, the type of you know,
NBA rights that end up getting thrown into a trade
just because the player is interesting enough, right, Like obviously
we want these guys to pan out, but not everybody's
going to pan out. There's not going to be opportunity
for everybody. And I think when you scout well and
(46:03):
you get guys that at least flash these type of skills,
it's a very very encouraging sign when it comes to
the Cavs scouting and player development.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
Absolutely, Buddy, very very fun Summer League.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Anyone else that I call your eye that you wanted
to shout out before before the Summer League adventure wraps up.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
I want to give another shout out to Sharif Cooper.
I just I like his game. He's someone you know
watching clips of mobile in the G League, and anytime
I try to tune in there, he also popped off
the screen. I just I like his overall game. I'd
love to be able to have rights to more players
(46:42):
than we can. This is one of my rants of
I think my rant initially started as I'd like to
have twelve two way spots, and I think I've settled
to a more reasonable keep the three two way. But
it'd be nice if you had a couple like G
League contracts right, like really make the G League more
of a minor league system where you can keep the
rights to guys and and focus on the development, because
(47:03):
I'd love to be able to, you know, extend an opportunity,
uh to Sharif Cooper. Pete Nantz was fun at times.
I think he moves a.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Little more or a little less fluidly.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Than I expected. Maybe that's just you know, he's a
longer player than Larry was, and I'm unfairly comparing him
to him, but he just wasn't as fluid of an athlete.
But you know, someone at that size that can kind
of shoot the ball, there's obviously an appeal in that.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, I liked Nance's minutes. I thought defensively, he showed
a lot.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
You know, you really noticed that this is a big guy.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
You know, you see the the Nance name of the
jersey and you kind of assume he's six seven six eight,
just like his brother and dad. But nope, this guy
is a true six ten six eleven legit, big with
with a good vert. You know, I think some of
the touch was there was not there, you know, I
think there were some that he smoked in transition where
(48:03):
he was catching on lobs or on hard runouts that
by the way, you get credit for that, because you know,
if you don't run hard, you're not getting these great looks.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
But you know, he didn't. He wasn't able to finish.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
And like, if he had finished all the ones that
I thought were like should finishes, I'm probably even the
Summer League going. Man, Pete Nance is just almost as
good as anyone else here. But there was there's just
that slight lack of polish.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Especially when you start getting to like NBA level rim protection.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
You've got to finish. You have to finish. But I
liked that. I liked the willingness to jump shoot. I
liked that he you know, he's got that uh he's
got the same kind of passing instincts of his brother
that I really appreciated and thought he was a nice player.
The last person I think needs a shout out is
(48:53):
Mike Garrity. I thought, I thought, not only you know,
we know Garritty has a reputation as a player development guy.
That's why you know he's coached the Charge and and
why he's been working with these guys for you know,
the past couple of years. But man, some of these
at os just eric easy buckets in frunch time.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
That chemistry that chemistry is awesome with those guys. Yeah,
he did a great job.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
It was nice, you know, it was uh, you know,
I I think like, obviously I don't know which which
member of the Cavs summer league coaching staff drew up
every out of bounds play, but I thought they played
really good team basketball and we're playing more connected than anybody.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
Else out there. M hmm, Yeah, I completely.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
And that's why they didn't lose a game and killed everyone.
Speaker 4 (49:45):
Man.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Not only that, they survived injuries, just like the big Cavs. Man,
like they they they overcame some injuries and you know what,
I'm I'm proud of I'm proud of the Fellas, the
Fellaws Junior. It was it was a lot of fun
and honestly, like my level of investment in this really
kind of solidified for me that I'm going to be
all in on the NBA tournament as well. Like, just
(50:08):
give me steaks. It doesn't even really have to matter,
it doesn't have to have a massive impact. But you
put cows on a jersey and you give me a
little bit of steaks, I want to win and I
get really really invested.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Absolutely, man, I was really rooting for him, it was
a blast legitimately the most entertaining summer league ball where
I mean even you know, we're sick ohs every year,
but most of the time I'm not looking at the score.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
No, So it was fun to actually give a damn
about what whether they won or lost, because the players
clearly did.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, and this jersey behind me twenty one, I'm going
to pretend that it's Baits and nobody asked who it
actually is. I think those that know me could make
a pretty educated guest there.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
But yeah, if you're watching live and YouTube, take a
guess as who Justin's got back there. I think it's
one of my favorite it justin shame jerseys.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Oh no, that's that's not even a shame jersey, man.
I will rock that proudly. But yeah, that's that's definitely
a fun one. Doctor Claude guesses buying them and no
it is not. No, no, God bless you, doctor Claude.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Once you get once you get through your wrap up,
I'll name it right before I cut the stream.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Well, I mean, forget being invested in calf Summer League Carter,
because there's another team that's captured my heart over the
last couple of months, and we need to talk about
them before we wrap this thing up. It's time for
sixty seconds of Sea Bears, Baby and No Carter. Winnipeg
is coming off a three game home stand since we
last recorded. The first one was an exhilarating game against
the Saskatchewan Rattlers Battle of the Prairies Carter Prairie showdown
(51:45):
between the two leagues leading scorers Teddy Allen and Justin
Wright Foreman. Winnipeg came back to take the lead in
target time, but right Foreman got the last laugh, hitting
a pull up three over Glen Yang to win ninety
eight ninety five with a target score set and ninety six.
Winnipeg and Saskatchewan split the season series, with both teams
winning on the road, but Winnipeg responded in a big way,
shooting fifty from three on their Friday night matchup against Montreal.
(52:07):
Teddy Allen put it up his usual dominant performance with
thirty three points and Winnipeger Simon Hildebrant hit the game
winning shot to seal the game. Ninety six eighty eight
and finally, a Birthday showdown for you boy between the
top two seeds in the West Play Sunday, but it
ended in the most lopsided of all the matchups, thirty
seven point thirty seven points in a game winning layup
for Allen, sealed though one hundred and seventy five victory
(52:28):
over Calgary, giving the Good Guys a two and a
half game lead for the top seed in the Western Conference.
Oh God, I got it in.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
God, I'm good. Very well done, sir. Long live Teddy Buckets,
Long lived Teddy Buckets.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
And long live my obsession with just absurd shot takers,
Teddy Allen's shot brand, my friend, I have a brand,
I have multiple. I love my shotchuckers, and I love
players like Craig Porter Junior that just got you know,
just got that nice feel at the point.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
A few another guests we have in the chat from
from Ben as JJ Hickson.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Oh I wish I wish I had a JJ Hickson jersey.
If anyone could track one down for me, I would
gladly rock that. It's Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 4 (53:15):
Oh, getting wiggy with it.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
You're getting wiggy with it, Big. Thanks to everyone the
tune in live on YouTube. We appreciate you guys hanging
out with us. Big shout out to the twenty twenty
three NBA Summer League Champs. Can you even Cavaliers? If
you're listening on YouTube and you want to support us,
like subscribe, click notification bells you know when we're going live.
You're listening via podcast and you want to support us,
leave us ratingly, review, subscribe, unsubscribe to you, subscripment, help
(53:37):
cook those books. If you want to be part of
Chasdown's exclusive discord chats and a screenshotther review to Chase
down potgmail dot com. However you choose to support us,
we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are
staying safe out there. Until next time, Go.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Castor Doctors SA
Hosts And Creators
Carter Rodriguez
Justin Rowan
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