Offseason Report Card: Bigs

Justin and Carter conclude their 2022-23 positional review by discussing the big man play from the Cavs this past season. What worked, what can improve and what opportunities exist this summer. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, Carl left wing free ball perfect, Darl comb pot
then he left block the shot at the rim, how
in the left hand and a fowl.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the kas
Media family. I'm your hostessin Rohan. The Chase Doown is
presented by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels of
live sports and TV for half the cost of cable.
There's no contract and no commitment. Try for free at
FuboTV dot com. Cleveland Cavaliers still in the off season mode. Baby,
We are waiting for the NBA Draft, which is actually
coming up a lot sooner than I realized. Just seventeen

(00:37):
days until the NBA Draft, twenty five days until teams
can start negotiating with free agents. But today we are
finishing up our positional recaps for the Cleveland Cavaliers by
talking about the caaz big men. And joining me today
to do so is my co host Carter Rodriguez. Carter,
how are you doing, Buddy?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Doing well? For those tuning into the livestream, sorry the
intro didn't have any audio. That's what happens when you completely,
get a new desk and rewire your computer, and don't
test anything for the stream before you start.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
You are just the model of professionalism.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
My friend at least our buddy Rafa is going to
be thrilled that you are facing the camera right now.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Look at us, brother, two collared shirts in this economy
though you got quite a bit of lettus out. I'm
gonna have to, you know, open it up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
We're getting spicy today on the chase down. You can
tell it's June. It's hot as hell.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
It got up to one hundred degrees fahrenheit here, which
I think everybody everybody knows how cold it gets up here.
Both seasons, both seasons are trying to kill me Carteret
all times.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Listen, man, you just chose a very intemperate place to live.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Just no other way around it. Yeah, you're not wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Before we get into the cass, big man, I do
want to talk just a little bit of NBA Finals.
Are you surprised that it's one one? Because right now,
like I kind of expected Miami to maybe get one
at some point this series.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
They have such a gift of.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Getting teams out of their rhythm, dragging them down into
their kind of style of play. But after that first
game from Denver, I really thought that they were going
to at least win those first two at home, and
maybe Miami would get one at home. Now I'm starting
to I still feel good about my Nuggets prediction. I
just feel like there's something about this Miami team that's

(02:24):
terrifying and I'm not even playing them well.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I think the nature of this Miami team. I was
thinking about this this afternoon while listening to all my
postgame pods. I think the nature of this Miami team
is that they can win any game, no matter where
it is, no matter what the circumstance, Like if they
just get hot, they're gonna win. So it's kind of

(02:50):
other than like the old fashioned trappings of role players
shoot better at home, which doesn't appear to be the
case for Miami anyway. It's just completely random, Like I
don't know if this is like I feel like historically,
when I see a series tied up one one, I'm like, oh,
we got a real battle here, and maybe the Roads

(03:10):
he might actually be better because they stole one on
the road.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I still kind of think Denver's better. I still think
they should be pretty heavily favored to win, but you know,
Miami might just win a championship with idiots like me
saying the other team should win.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be the first team they
beat in this playoff run that I would say was
the better team. But it's not always about who the
better team is right on paper, it's whoever can perform
the best within kind of a seven game series. And
you know, it's really funny looking back at it. I
forget which podcast I was listening to today. I think
it was actually to Hoop Collective, but Windhorse mentioned that

(03:50):
this Bucks team that we saw this year might be
better than the team that won the championship, and like
knee jerk reaction, I disagreed, but you know what it
could be Like, this Bucks team was really really damn good,
and you know, Joanniscott were at the wrong time. Jokic
has just been ridiculously impressive. I'm happy that people are
finally kind of coming around to just how damn good
that guy is. But that last game where Miami, despite

(04:14):
what was suppose said, took away some of his passing lanes,
tried to make him into more of a score made
it harder for him to make other guys better.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
That reminded me so much of Dirk, the way he
was just hitting timely buckets. And I thought they were
in control of the game the way that he ended
the third quarter. But Miami just again in the fourth quarter,
they're just they're so damn resilient, and I really didn't
think that this was a matchup, Like they're so small.
That's the thing that doesn't get talked about enough is,
you know, Kyle Lowry's six feet. They got two six

(04:45):
y five wings out there a lot of the time
in Caleb Martin and Max Druce. Jimmy has good size,
Bam six ' nine, right, Like, there's not a lot
of size out there when you're dealing with a guy
like Jokichen, Aaron Gordon and all these guys that Denver
can throw at you. That just hasn't really been a
major factor in the series. And that's kind of surprised me.
I disagree with that. I think Game one was all

(05:07):
about positional size. Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I just felt
it wasn't something that was as correctable as it appeared
to be in Game two. Probably would have been a
better way to frame that.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
And really, I think you you know, you look at
what it took for Miami to take this game. I
don't know if Denver's played a good game yet in
this series. I think Jokic has been great. You know,
Murray was just okay in game one, he was just
okay in Game two. Porters just had a terrible shooting
stretch and some regression of decision making in game two

(05:41):
for sure. And yeah, I think this was much more
about Denver blowing it. Personally, I think they didn't play
a good.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Game, but that's also Miami, Like Miami can make it
the game, don't play a good game throughout the entire series.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, they're just kind of like this, you know, they
just kind of just grind you down with execution and
and normally those kind of teams get exposed in the postseason.
But they also have you're, just enough high variant stuff
too that makes it so they can survive it. Big
game for the Max Strue agenda after a pretty dire

(06:14):
Game one. But yeah, I mean it's cool that it's
cool that it's one one. Though if you told me
now it's one in five still, I wouldn't be like
blown away, Like I think they absolutely could win the
next three. I don't know, maybe home court just matters
less than it used to. It just feels like it
used to be like, you know, you hold serve, you win,

(06:38):
you steal one on the road, Holy crap, you're probably
gonna win that series. And now it's just like whatever.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Has a little bit to do with like just shooting variants,
because you can take a crowd out of a game,
out of a series, whereas in the past, you know,
when you're trading twos, you're trading buckets, Like it's harder
for a game to kind of get out a hand
to eat doesn't feel as crushing when someone hits kind
of a mid range jumper. I just feel like shooting
variants in general, Like that's been the story of Miami's run,
is a team that wasn't very good at shooting throughout

(07:05):
the season just got ridiculously hot and had some of
the hottest kind of shooting series that we've seen. If
you're able to hit those shots, you can take a
crowd out of it. You can take another team out
of it where they feel like they need to match that,
maybe they get out of their rhythm a little bit.
I just feel like that could be a major factor here.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I am just kind of of the opinion at this
point that like it's it's shooting variants. Sure, I also
just think it's talent level.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
I just think the league's so darn good that, you know,
it just makes every game kind of a toss up
right now. And I just feel like superiority. I mean,
even look at that Nuggets Lakers series. I was, you know,
that's going to be remembered as an ass kicking and
the Lakers were in every single game pretty much.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah, twenty seventeen Finals vibes.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, So, like, I just feel like the league's talent
is so darn good right now that it's kind of
immatere in a home court like matters. Sure, and I
still think Denver has an advantage on that front, but
like it's just not what it used to be, that's all.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And you know, before we continue talking about the NBA,
we probably should, you know, get what everybody came for
out of the way, which is, of course, sixty seconds
of Sea Bears. Carter get the clock ready, Oh crap,
hold on, I don't know if I saved the profile.
Give me a second. Let's go. Okay, I'm not even
hearing it is this clock running.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Hold on, hold on, I had the music bed still going.
Give me a second, all right, Sea Bears, Let's go.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
The Sea Bears went out on the road last week
to southern Ontario to take on two of the top
three teams from last season. Burst up the defending champion
Brampton Honey Badgers. Fun Fact Carter. The Honey Badgers are
coached by former Cast player development coach Antoine Broxy shout
out to him less fun fact. The Sea Bears led
going sixty six sixty two going into the target score time,
but the offense went cold and they ultimately lost seventy

(08:59):
five seventy one. Teddy Allen led Winnipeg with eighteen points,
but struggled with the shooting again, going seven of twenty four.
But those struggles wouldn't last for long, as Teddy Buckets
tied the CEBL single game scoring record with forty two
points against Drake's Scarborough Shooting Stars. Teddy Buckets was the
brightest star in the building, making Winnipeg and or Buddy
Matt gold Prow shout out to the West Virginia Mountaineers

(09:20):
Winnipeg two and one on the season.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Buddy, very well done, Pal, very well done. And I'm
sorry I wasn't ready with the que. You just caught
me off guard. I didn't have the rundown open, which
really goes to show you how prepared I was for
this one. You've been with faster. It was a heck
of an evening. Three year olds are no joke. Justin
they are no joke.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I think you find out how who people truly are
with how they perform in June when it comes to
the NBA.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
And you were not acquitting yourself well in this spot.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Let's move on though, Let's get to the actual meat
and potatoes of this year podcast, which is finishing up
our position group breakdowns. Today we will be talking about
the cas big Men for the purposes of this podcast.
That is Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Dean Wade, and Robin Lopez.
And let's just start with the most fun possible way
we could go with this, which is Evan Mobley. What

(10:14):
went well for him the season? Well, he was the
youngest finalist for Defensive Player of the Year in NBA history,
once again proving that he can defend every single position
on the court. I thought this was a lot of fun.
I looked at the positional breakdowns of who he defended
Garter throughout the season courtesee a b Ball Index nine
percent of his possessions guarding point guards, nine percent guarding
shooting guards, seventeen percent on small forwards, twenty seven percent

(10:38):
on power forwards, and thirty eight percent on centers. Even
more interesting, players classified as primary ball handlers by Basketball Index,
Evan Mobley defended them on twenty two percent of his possessions,
which obviously probably had a lot to do with, you know,
switching defense. Primary initiators can come from every single position,

(10:58):
and Mobile is one of those guys that can defend
all of those positions. I just we obviously have to
start with the defense. And he was ridiculously good once
again for the CAZ this year. And you know, like,
like I said, youngest defensive Player of the Year finalist
in NBA history at twenty one years old, Like this
is exactly this isn't exactly who we were hoping for.

(11:20):
We weren't hoping for this high this early on, but
it's great that we have it.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, it was an awesome year for Mobley and kind
of didn't know if it was going to be that.
The first, you know, month of the year, he was
dealing with the ankle injury, missed most of preseason, just
wasn't I don't know, didn't feel like he didn't really
know where to find his shots on offense early on,
and was doing a lot of those bump bump, bump bump,

(11:47):
post fade that's two feet short kind of possessions. And
you know, then he kind of found his way and
really showed a level of offensive dominance that I just
don't think I was ready for. He averaged eighteen points
the last forty games of the year in three assists

(12:09):
on efficient shooting. And you know then, of course, on
the defensive end, I feel like this year was the
year where JB kind of just let him go. I
don't feel like he guarded on the perimeter that much
last season, at least guarding like main guys. I feel
like he was almost always the help guy.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Last year.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
He was playing a lot of free safety, and this
year they said, hey, go guard Jimmy Butler down the stretch,
go figure out how to screen navigate as an on
ball defender, and you know he learned a lot, I
think over the course of the year, and on that
end of the ball, he culminated by completely ruining Julius
Randall's life and playing him off the floor. Now, obviously

(12:54):
the offensive success did not continue on the other side
of the ball, but you know, you gotta remember age,
she got to remember where we thought he'd be going
into year two. And man, I feel like he passed
this year with flying colors.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
For me, yeah, I was really impressed as the season progressed,
just how well his offensive emergence really fit in with
the rest of the team, right Like it didn't take
away from Donald Mitchell, didn't take away from Darius Carland.
Jared Allen's scoring even went up when Mobley's scoring went up,
and his passing has been really good too. Basketball Index

(13:32):
has a metric that judges passing creation quality, So looking
at how many bad pass turnovers do you have, how
many how long are you holding the ball, where are
you getting guys the ball, what do they convert? And
he last as a rookie, he was very good. He
was in the eighty eight percentile. He's up to ninety
six percentile in pass creation quality and a lot of

(13:52):
those playmaking stats, even though the volume isn't super high,
they're good, right, Like, he's got really good instincts. The
two man chemistry with he and Jared Allen, he is
really good and I definitely feel like, you know, that
didn't completely translate to the postseason. The Calv's ability to
beat kind of the defenses, the trapping defenses that you

(14:13):
would see Garrius Garland and Donovan Mitchell face throughout the
regular season was always broken by Evan Mobley or Jared
Allen in the short role, that initiation from the high post,
and those were just possessions that they didn't get value
out of in the postseason, but over the course of
a regular season, for him to show growth in those
areas I thought was really really important. And obviously the

(14:34):
pressure of the postseason something he was facing for the
first time, same with a lot of guys on this team.
You know, it was funny I was listening to Feodor's
podcast and he was mentioning how despite the Miami Heat,
three of the last four years they've gone to the
conference finals. There's also that one year where they got
swept by the Bucks and Jimmy Butler averaged fourteen points
for a series and was outscored by Brent Forbes. Right, Like,

(14:56):
sometimes this stuff happens, even though we know these guys
are good playoff perform and I don't look at what
happened with the Cavs as something that is a reflection
of who they truly are. I do think that this
is a group that can kind of rise above it.
And Evan Mobley, he's such a competitor and the way
that he's responded to challenges even in season, I'm excited

(15:19):
to see what he does with those playoff struggles.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Absolutely. Let's move on to Jared Allen, who I think
had an interesting year. You know, I feel like it
was not I don't feel like he quite hit the
heights of his All Star season last year, but I
do think he made meaningful jumps. I think he was
a better defender this year, a better communicator and leader

(15:43):
on that side of the ball this year by all reports,
you know, And yeah, it was an interesting year, I
would say. I think the fact of the matter is
he was kind of going to be the statistical odd
man out with this addition of volume, with the addition
of Evan's game continue to expand. But I still thought

(16:04):
he had a solid season.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
What do you think.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah, I thought he had a good season as well.
I think his passing out of the short role was
a lot better. The only real spot that you see
a drop off in percentage is finishing at the rim,
which isn't a big I felt that, Yeah, it was
only about two percent, which is actually less than I
would have guessed saying. But you know, I do think

(16:28):
that it kind of correlates with the drop in free
throw rate. I thought he got a really bad whistle
and there was a lot of contact allowed on him,
and the free throw rate went down by seven percent
from the previous year. And I don't feel like he
was playing any differently, Like I feel like he was
still attacking the rim a fair amount. It was Actually
the free throw rate is twelve percent below his career average.

(16:49):
I don't know what happens there. Sometimes I felt this
with Kevin Love when Lebron came back, where he just
wasn't getting as many calls because last year Jared Allen
was the number two on the Cavs. So I feel
like REFF some times slot you in as the number
two player on a team, You're going to get calls accordingly,
whereas now it's Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley and
now Jared Allen. Right, like, Mobley really did kind of

(17:11):
take the torch from him. But as I mentioned, when
Mobley was having that stretch where he was averaging over
eighteen points per game for the last forty games, Jared
Allen's production went up as well. He started averaging fifteen
and ten whereas before he was averaging thirteen and a
half in ten. Right, it's not massive, but I really
do think that he did a great job overall this year.
And even though the mobiley guarding primary ball handlers for

(17:35):
twenty two percent of possessions is impressive, Jared Allen actually
did more this year. Twenty six percent of his possessions
came defending primary ball handlers. He's a versatile defender too,
and honestly, I feel like he got overlooked far too
much in the all defensive conversations. I get the Cavs
are and probably going to get two. There's a lot
of word the candidates out there. I just feel like

(17:56):
his name didn't come up enough because I I really
do feel like he was, you know, the anchor of
the defense still in a lot of ways, whereas Devin Moldley,
like you said, is that jack of all trade, something
that you can give so many different assignments and is
free to kind of play that versatile defense. Because of
the presence of Jared out.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
A couple of games, I think you want to shout
out Jarrett on the defense end of the ball this year.
I think the winning against the MAVs when he was
switched on to Luca five six times in a quarter
and just Luca was just barfing up bad shots trying
to get a good look. I thought he did a
really nice job against these kind of burlier wings, the
Jason Tatums of the world, the crafty guys who aren't

(18:38):
crazy explosive. I think that was he really found a
niche guarding those guys on the perimeter on switches. So
definitely gets a lot of credit there. And you know,
to your point about him at the rim, It's funny
how you know sometimes you're just wrong. You know, we
watch these games so close, and you know we think
that we are observing trends, and you know your brain trick,

(19:00):
so you know, you got you that's why you have
to go check things out and you know I was
getting ready to say, oh, yeah, well he was wasn't
a huge drop off at the rim, but it was
the kind of the floater range where I felt like
the touch was worse. He shot better from three to
ten year over year. He was forty seven percent from
three to ten feet last year. He was fifty one

(19:21):
this year.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
So he actually had the second best mid range field
goal percentage on the team behind Donovan Mitchell.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Surprisingly, and I was about to say, jumped up to
fifty one percent from ten to sixteen feet. Obviously only
seven percent of his shots there, but still, so you know,
I it's one of those things, and you know that
is one spot where you can look at it just
looking at the Basketball Reference page. Last year he shot
sixty two percent of his shots right at the rim

(19:49):
zero to three feet away. This year fifty seven and
a half percent. So he did take a higher percent
of his shots away from the rim. So even though
so he's I had a slightly worse percentage and just
kind of moved his shot profile out a little bit,
And believe it or not, it makes you a little
bit less efficient when your guy like Jared Allen, So

(20:10):
I think he had a really nice year, though I
think that obviously the postseason will get to the stuff
that didn't go so well. But yeah, I definitely thought
he had a good year, deserved a lot more credit
for the defense. I think mobilely, you know, it was
either going to be Mobile and Allen split attention forever

(20:30):
and no one ever gets awarded, or one was going
to get more attention than the other. And I think,
thank goodness, Jared is like the nicest guy in the league,
because I think he is probably getting a little bit
short shrift compared to MOBILEI in terms of how big
of a factor he was in them having you know,
the top defense in the league. Yeah, I completely agree
with that, and it goes to show you just how

(20:51):
important personalities can be to team building, right that, Like
this is definitely a situation where you could have seen
someone like Jared Allen get very disgruntled after being an
All Star last year, and you know, consummate professional, continued
playing hard, got better as the season went on. And
you know, the encouraging thing too, is last year the
Mobley and Allen pairing was really good. The numbers were

(21:13):
great when they were together, but a lot of that
was really carried on the defensive end, and this year
we saw real progress with how good they were together
on the offensive end and how good the team was
around them. According to Cleaning the Glass, when Mobley and
Allen were together as a duo, they had a plus
eight point nine net rating together and a one to
nineteen point three offensive rating that's in the eighty seven

(21:34):
percentile of all lineups in the NBA. Really really damn good.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Carter and another one of those things that's kind of counterintuitive,
you would have assumed Mobiley with no Allen was a
more potent offensive lineup. Nope, it was Mobley with no
Allen one fifteen point one offensive rating, so about a
drop off of four points per one hundred possessions, still
plus three point eight net rating on the year, and
Alan with no Mobiley again one fifteen point eight offensive

(22:01):
rating plus six point seven. So they were great with
every single combination of these two. But it just is
interesting that those two played together and the offense was
better when they were together. And obviously some of that
has to do with playing with Darius Garland and Donna
and Mitchell, but that's the whole thesis of this team building,
is that those two together can work when you pair

(22:22):
them with offensively talented guards like Darius Garland and Donna
and Mitchell. So I thought that this was a really
really encouraging season. And as much as that Knick series
gets in your head and it was so frustrated to
see how the team played, this is again, why you
don't break this up. This is why you try to
get the talent around them, because a core that works

(22:43):
this well together is something that's really really hard to
put together. And when you have Evan Mowley on a
rookie deal and Jared Allen on a value contract, it
does make team building a lot easier as well.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, absolutely, I thought they played really well together. I
did like that you noted that, yeah, a lot of
those mens aren't to come with the two best offensive
players in the team in Garland and Mitchell. But yeah,
I continue to think this works. I continue to feel
like this is a pairing that I want to see
continue to bear fruit. I think their failures had a
lot more to do with execution and spacing around them

(23:20):
and scheme than it did with anything archetypal. I don't
think that the Knicks shut the Calves water off because
they played two Bigs. Yeah, I think the Calves. I
think the Knicks shut the Calves water off because the
Calves played really, really bad and did not have enough
threats off the ball to keep things from getting too

(23:40):
crunchy alongside those two.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, I completely agree. I think this pairing is awesome.
This pairing is almost as good as a Chase Down
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Zoom how the world connect harder. Before we get into

(24:04):
what they can improve, because I actually think of all
the position groups we've discussed a couple folks still.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
Just I know.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
That's what I'm saying before we get there, because I
think that the discussion about where Mobile and Allen can
improve is the most interesting for this offseason. We do
need to touch on our guys, Dean Wade and Robin
Lopez Rollo. I don't even know how to like seriously
do this. You know, veteran presence out there. Vibes were
great hit one of the most memorable shots I've seen

(24:33):
in person where he was sitting on his butt against
the Wizards and threw the ball up. I mean, you
were high five and having fun there. The hook shots
were fun. Didn't have as much juice left as we
expected coming into the off season, but this team was
also in a different position than we expected. And you know,
one of the things that Feedor mentioned on his podcast
again just having listened to that, was the thinking with

(24:56):
bringing in Robin Lopez was, you know, someone for Mobile
and Al to go up against, to push them in practice,
to help them get to another level, to toughen them up,
a big body that they have to deal with. And
those are stuff behind the scenes that we can't really
speak to. But given the fact that Mobley did improve
throughout this season and we like what we saw from
Jared Allen, I guess you got to get some credit

(25:17):
to Rollo to some extent as well as the coaching staff.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
I think you said very well, buddy, guy like Robin Lopez,
like the stuff that wasn't so good. I think it's
going to be pretty easy for us to evaluate analyzed.
But you know the stuff that I think the reason
you half the reason you bring him stuff we're never
gonna know, not being directly in the organization. Yeah, no,
let's talk about Dean, and I want to talk about

(25:42):
Dean's November in terms of what went well her thirty
six minutes. In Dean Wade's November, you only played six
games before getting bounced due to some injury. This man
averaged fifteen points on sixty two threes on five point

(26:04):
eight three point attempts per thirty six the average, five boards,
two assists, only half a turnover. This was the guy
we thought, Okay, you know, maybe this is the guy
that you think, Hey, Kevin, it's not going so well,
we're going to start trying to give Dean some minutes.

(26:28):
And it's just so disappointing that he gets hurt and
this stretch of play that looked so encouraging just kind
of goes away, you.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Know, and it gets forgotten the history pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
And yeah, and you know what it probably should. You know, like,
you don't make careers out of, you know, eight to
ten game stretches, you make careers.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Out of, Hey, Jeremy Lynd disagrees.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Jeremy Lynd disagrees, and so is Jeremy Pargo. But yeah,
but then you go to his per thirty six for
the year, and it's not it's a bad year. Eight
point three points on forty one percent from the field
and thirty five percent from three. He did average five
threes per thirty six, which is okay. Six boards. He

(27:15):
was solid on the boards, if not in his actual
rebounding numbers, but in terms of how the calves rebound
when he was on the floor. But yeah, I think
it was just a bit of a I think this
was a big missed opportunity for Dean, which stinks because
it's not even his fault he got hurt. Of course,
we'll never know how much that it was impacting him

(27:36):
down the stretch, but you know, he went from being
showing those signs as a movement shooter and taking some
some really tough threes very confidently and lacing him to
you know, some of the ugliest misses you'll see. So
can't help but feel like the injuries were a big factor.
But you know, it's one of those things where we're
not going to know.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, and it's unfortunate because this is now back to
back year where we sit here and we're like, man,
that Dean Wade injury really had a lot of ripple
effects that hurt the calves, which I mean is probably
more of a statement on the depth than anything else.
But he did start the year looking very good, right Like.
He looked like a more mobile, willing shooter. And I

(28:17):
know you alluded to the Kevin Love decision, where to me,
like it was almost more he was filling in for
Lowry market and like giving us like a discount version
of what we got from Lowry the previous year because
that had been his role, right is, he was filling
in for Lowry Lowry. When Lowry got hurt, he was
out there spacing the floor. We wanted to see him
come off a screens. We wanted to see more of

(28:39):
that movement shooting. Can he get his volume up? And
I remember early in the season we were talking about, Hey,
that gamble looks to be paying off. He looks more confident.
He's giving us a version of what Boston has with
Grant Williams, right Like. That was one of those things
that we talked about in those two early games against Boston,
And it just is unfortunate that it went this way.

(28:59):
And it's hard for me, like, as we look at
where we'd like to see improvement assuming Dean's back on
the team, it's can he stay healthy. I understand these
are totally unrelated injuries when it comes to the meniscus
injury he had two years ago, as well as the
shoulder collarbone injury that he had this year, But you know,
you got to stay on the floor. Can he stay

(29:21):
healthy and can he continue to get back to where
he was and build upon kind of those strides as
a movement shooter, because without that, he's kind of more
again in that power forward role, that big man role
where he did play a lot of his minutes this year,
and for the simplicity of this podcast, we stuck him
in with the biggs. But really he's someone that can

(29:42):
play that four to three role, and I think ideally
you'd want him playing more at the three.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, well maybe, you know, I think there's a lot
of to be said for his ability to guard up
and play the floor and be a stretch big, but
you know, you do lose a little bit, and I
think it really depends on the personnel around him. You know,
I think when Isaac Okora was playing the two, it's

(30:09):
a lot easier to justify him as the three. Defensively
because you had Isaac to chase around these guards, it's
it's harder to justify offense, and we did see the
offense kind of fall off, and you know, I think
Dean kind of found himself a little bit no man's
land at certain points this year on that front with
regard to Roll, you know, because when Darius and Donnie

(30:30):
are out there, it's like, are you gonna have Dean
chasing around the best perimeter player. Sometimes that works when
it's like a Jason Tatum. Sometimes it's a little bit
too much to ask. So I'm really hoping for a
bounce back year. But I do think, you know, like
we've spent the end of these podcasts kind of talking
about what the Cavs should do looking forward, and like

(30:52):
I do think after two years in a row, you
probably can't just pencil him in as your third big
that's fair. I think they're going to have to look
really hard at bringing in some competition for him. And
if he wins the competition, awesome, You've got a costumetrolled
guy who won, who won the spot. But I don't

(31:13):
think you can you can pencil him in because they're
probably gonna have to try out some different skill sets,
some different players, and and I think he's really gonna
have to earn his keep, which Dean Wade is no
stranger to doing that.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah, I completely agree. I think you hit the nail
on the head. Now.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
I'm really excited to spend the next fifteen man's really
getting into where Robin Lopez can improve, assuming that he's back.
I know that's not a guarantee, but let's let's really
dive deep into Robin Lopez.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Carter.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh yeah, Robin, you know, I just I just feel like,
you know, I'm not gonna go where he can improve,
but I do think we can just kind of talk
about no hold on, we could die about where where
expectations were misaligned. I thought you hoped that he would
be a great vibes guy. Check you hope that he
could play if a big got hurt or buy you

(32:04):
minutes against the bigger dudes in the league.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
Not check.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
He really wasn't a rotation guy. You know, you want
your your kind of fourth fifth big to be a
guy who you can trust to throw out there. And
they were thrown out de Tech. They were just playing
small instead of giving Robin minutes. So in that sense.
I think it is a disappointment that he just had
a little less juice than I certainly thought he did.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Do you think that has to do with kind of
grading on a curve, because I don't know how different
he looked from last season in Orlando, But given that
Orlando didn't have expectations. You see him go out there
and you know, get a contested rebound, hit, a hook
shot every now and then. Teammates get excited playing with him.
But when there isn't the expectations, you almost you have

(32:53):
to be a little more critical on how that's going
to translate when you're going to a team that has
serious playoff aspirations. Well, I think there's that justin and
I also think the reality is I think he was
a real tough schematic fit for this team. You know,
I talked a lot about mid season about how the
Cows kind of had to change a lot of their

(33:13):
identity to accommodate Kevin Love. Defensively, this was not a
hard hedging team like during the regular season, But when
Love's out there, you got to put two on the
ball sometimes and scramble around to cover him. And I
don't think this is a deep deep deep drop team.
Either this is a team that can play drop, but
they're playing like a little closer to the level with

(33:35):
these bigs or switching a lot of the time, and
that really worked for them. So, like I think when
Robin came in, it was like, wait, how do we
accommodate this? You know, because like if he was in
the space, he did an okay job. But I just
feel like they I just feel like there was a
bit of a stylistic incongruity there, and I think a

(33:55):
more spry back up five that's a bit more of
a mover and a shaker might might be a better
fit moving forward.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
Imply agree, And I'm surprised I was. I was just joking.
I was doing a bit about Robin Olpez and you
found some meat on that bone. Look at you.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
You you you are unprepared, but you're still prepared because
you're You're.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
Just a natural buddy.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Let's move on to Evan Mobley though, because I I
want to start off on where I'd like to see
improvement with the mid range game. I would like to
see one him improved from the free throw line. I
think that's one of the few areas where we really
saw stagnation from him. Shot sixty six percent as a rookie,
shot sixty seven percent as a sophomore, and you know, like, honestly,

(34:40):
like that's free points. They're they're called free throws for
a reason. It can make a big difference. Cavs lost
some tight games, especially in the on the road. You
don't want this to be a situation where he doesn't
feel confident going to the line drawing contact and I
didn't really get a sense of that, But just having
a higher level of confidence that he's going to convert

(35:00):
on those would be nice, And honestly, I think that
translates to the in between game. I know everybody talks
about the three point shooting when it comes to Devin
Mobley and trying to get that to improve and make
it work. But even if he's hitting a better percentage,
I don't think that volume is going to be at
a level where it's really kind of changing defenses. I

(35:21):
think where you can get the most bang for your
buck when you're talking about improvement to next year is
that mid range game. If he's able to adopt some
of what we're seeing from bam Adebayo, where he is
a threat from that kind of free throw line extended.
That's going to open up his ability as a passer.
That's going to make defenses respect him more. The Knicks
were really, really really playing him to attack the rim

(35:43):
on those short rules. They weren't coming up, they weren't
challenging him in those spaces. And if he had a
confident mid range jumper and he was able to hit
those shots, that starts to open up more opportunities. And
I really do think that the Knicks kind of not
not believing that he's going to convert those shots. It
got in his head a little bit, and you saw
some poor decision making the short role. And I probably

(36:06):
don't have to remind you of this, but again, one
point in the pick and Roll All series for Evan
Mobley right like that, that's a really, really, really big
part of getting this offense to work at a playoff
level is teams are going to do things to the
guards and Evan Mobley and even Jared Allen need to
capitalize in those areas to make the defense play them

(36:28):
a little more.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Honestly, Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm actually gonna take
it up a notch to go full m rolla gassy here.
I'm worried about Evan Mobley's jump shooting. Okay, I think
this is I think last year you look at it,
you look at the free throw percentage, you look at
some of those historical predictors for being a good jump shooter,

(36:54):
and he wasn't hitting those. But you look at the
touch on the floaters, and you go, he'll probably figure
it out. Two years makes a pattern justin and and
the fact of the matter is he got worse as
a shooter this year. He got way way better at
the rim. He was about six percentage points better at

(37:14):
the rim and took more at the rim, so his
overall efficiency went up, but the jumpers were not where
they were last year. The free throw percentage plateaued, and
he is the king of you know, missing too in
a row, which tells you that he's searching out there
a little bit. It's not like he misses one and
then you know, gets himself reset and calmly drains the other.

(37:39):
I think there is some some legitimate concerns there. Obviously,
he's still reworking his form, so you always have to
kind of grain assault some of this stuff. With the
player this young and to the band out of bio point.
His rookie year, he shot let's see here, he shot
seventy two percent of the line. Next year he shot

(38:02):
seventy three. Next year he shot sixty nine. So you go,
uh oh, maybe maybe he doesn't got the juice. Then
he shoots eighty, seventy five and eighty the last three
years while really working on that mid range game. So like,
I think sometimes we view free throw shooting as this
very like static thing, like you either have touch you don't.

(38:23):
So you're either gonna be a good free throw shooter
you're not. This is something you can work on, especially
at the end between game. And I do think Mobley
has the touch, but like he is going to have
to start showing some of those signs of consistency. Because
you can have all the touch in the world, the
SHOT's got to go in now to your point, your

(38:44):
other point. I think the in between game, the floater game,
the short roll still matters more. That's where his gravity's
gonna lie. Much like Bam in this series against Denver,
where Hey Jogic is going to play a drop on Bam.
It's just the way it's gonna happen, and Bam is

(39:04):
going to have to hit floaters. He's gonna have to
hit pull up jumpers with a few feet of airspace
in front of him, seven to eight feet away from
the rim. And he's doing that at a very high level,
and it's why Miami's in the series right now. So
I think that's the more important part of clear and
I'm very confident he can clear that one. But the jumper,

(39:25):
it's time to be a little concerned. I think, yeah,
I think that's fair. The one thing I'd push back
on is I think he was attempting tougher shots this
year when it came to the mid range, Like there
was more turnarounds, there was more self creation this year
than there was the previous year. Even if that came
off of a pass, he was catching it quick move

(39:45):
and attempting a jump shot. And I still think that
the touch looks like it's there. But I do think
overall you're correct to kind of point that out as
something that needs to improve, and people they just focus
on the three point shot, right like people have reduced
the game to rimen three pointers in their minds. That
fifteen foot range, to me, if he could get more
confident from that range, if defenses had to respect him

(40:08):
from that range, and he improved there and improved his handle.
I really think that that would open up his offensive game,
because this is a guy that was averaging for half
the season forty games eighteen points per game on nearly
sixty percent true shooting percentage. That is not something to
sneeze at, like that's impressive, and little improvements like that

(40:30):
are going to make him a more versatile score It's
going to open up his playmaking, it's going to open
up what JB can do offensively as well, which I
thought was one of the most encouraging things that I
saw with JB's offense, which was as Mobile got better,
more was put on his plate than the offense adapted
around it. That's where I'd really like to see improvement.
And the other thing I'd like to point out is

(40:52):
the rebounding. I would like to see IV and Mobile
improve as a rebounder. And it's funny because his rebounding
numbers aren't bad, the percentiles are all kind of up there.
He's eighty eighth in defensive overall defensive rebounding percentage, so
he's got the skill for it. But then you look
a little deeper, and you look at the numbers on
Basketball Index, forty fifth percentile in adjusted box out rate defensively,

(41:17):
like he's getting rebounds without really boxing out. He's seventy
six percentile in contested defensive rebound percentage, so you know strength,
and sixty ninth in offensive rebound percentage. So some of
that can be fixed by him getting a little bit stronger,
but he also needs to, you know, put a body
on guys, give himself a better chance, because when you

(41:37):
are letting guys get a free run to the ball
and you're not putting your butt into them, you're going
to give them more balance to win those contested rebounds.
You're going to lose some of those fights. And we
saw that against some of these more physical teams. We
saw Toronto go out and take the ball from him,
we saw New York take the ball from him. I

(41:57):
think as much as the attention and went on on
Jared Allen, I think Mobiley's boxing out throughout that series
kind of looking back at those games was worse than Allen's.
Some of that had to do with positioning again, defending
Julius Randall out of the three point line, but that's
something that I'd like to see him improve at because
as he gets stronger, he can do little things like

(42:18):
boxing out more and be more attentive with that to
capitalize on his natural skill as a rebounder. YEP, absolutely
agree with that. Let's talk about Jarrett. What does Jarrett
need to get better at? I know everyone is going
to holler about rebounding after how the postseason went.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, let's let's just get Let's let's start there. Yeah,
let's start there. Because overall he was this better rebounder
than Evan Mobley. He was ninety second percentile on offensive
rebound percentage, ninetieth and defensive rebound percentage. I compared this
to the Denver Nuggets in Miami Heat to see how
many players on their roster are better at defensive rebounding.

(42:57):
Kevin Love and Nicola Yoch are the only ones ahead.
Allen's just a little bit ahead of bam Adebayo in
that category, so there's still it's a major strength for him.
But similar to Evan Mobley, he could be better when
it comes to boxing out fiftieth percentile in adjusted box
out rate, seventy eight percentile in contested defensive rebound percentage,

(43:18):
but ninety third on offensive rebounds, which I found to
be really really interesting that you saw such a discrepancy,
whereas with MOBILEI, he just wasn't winning contested boards on
either end. So again, I don't know if this is
something that has to do with, you know, adding strength,
boxing out just a little more attentively to disrupt guys
from being able to kind of crash the glass in

(43:39):
the ways that they were. Maybe some of that has
to do with improving the defensive rebounding around them. That
was something that you smartly pointed out when we were
talking about Wings. I don't know what exactly it is,
but he is a good rebounder. I think some of
the issues against the Knicks had a lot more to
do with scheme and where they put him, and even

(44:00):
early in that series, like fourteen and fourteen in Game one,
I just feel like there was too much adjusting and
getting away from what the Cavs do defensively, and that
impacted his ability to be effective on the defensive glass.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, I just feel like in general, you know, I
just want to keep seeing his game, like he's got
to learn. I feel like the biggest thing for him, actually,
much like MOBILEI, is finishing over length. I feel like
when Jarrett has a size advantage or he's facing a
destabilized defense, like a very destabilized defense, he feasts. Like

(44:37):
I've always said, his big scoring nights are much more
symptomatic of things flowing really well for the Cavaliers otherwise,
more than him like self creating a ton and I
think against the Knicks, that was one thing I was
worried about, is Mischel Robinson's a big dude. He's going
to be playing drop and he's going to be in
the way is Jared How much does Jarrett belie? Even

(45:00):
his touch and turns out didn't seem like very much.
He was darn near invisible often in that series. I
don't know if he's ever gonna be like a self
creation god, but like fins would be the opportunity for
that on this team. No, But like finding finding ways
to sneak buckets in over length I think could be

(45:23):
a nice thing to work on, if not the main thing.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
To work on.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, I'd like to see him work on that in
between Game two, right, because what makes the Cavs dangerous
is the ability to go from Donovan being the ballhandler
to Darius or Jared Allen playing one role offensively and
Evan Mobley being able to do that. And just like
we said earlier, the fact that he is, you know,
a good, pretty decent mid range shooter on reasonable volume,

(45:50):
you know, experiment with that a little bit more to
develop that in between game, make defenses come out to you,
and then you can do that big to big passing
with Evan Mobley in the dunker spot. Right Like, if
if your man is coming out and creating those passing lines,
that's going to open up an opportunity for someone like
Isaaco Kor to come back door. That's going to give
you lobs to Evin Mobley. That's and vice versa, right.

(46:11):
I think that's something that both of them can work on.
And he is a better free throw shooter than Evan Mobley.
I'd obviously like to see a little bit of growth there.
And he's talked about how adding strength he is one
of his big focuses. And I don't want Jared Allen
to go out there and add twenty pounds. I don't
think that's ever like something smart for a seven foot

(46:34):
guy to do. It's tough on the joints, but I'd
like to see him and MOBILEI get stronger, right strength,
functional strength. Look at like rookie Tyson Chandler to where
he was in Dallas, right Like, that's the type of
body transformation I'd love to see as these guys get older.
And it's important to remember he just turned twenty five
years old. He is the exact same age that Tristan

(46:57):
Thompson was backing up timofay Mosgov on that first Finals run,
right like, tt was the backup in that series, and
of course when Kevin Love got hurt, eventually they went
to that two big lineup. But it was the following
year that Tristan had that physical maturity where he made
that leap in the margins that really really made him
such a focal point and such an important part of

(47:19):
that championship team. And I know when we look at
centers that don't have the three point shooting and the
passing of Jokic, we think we just kind of bottle
them up and we put them in a box as
they're never going to improve. There's no real routes to
them improving. When the improvement in the margins, the improvements
of understanding your role on the offensive and defensive end,

(47:41):
can make such a big difference. So I really do
think that there is a lot of room for growth
for Jared Allen.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
I wanted to call out a quick chat in the
in the YouTube live watershed, just talked about how he
feels like Mobiley kind of ran out of gas in
the playoffs and that the Cavs need to work on
pacing themselves next year. And here's a macro thing I
think we should put on the coaching staff is the

(48:08):
minutes for those two bigs were pretty darn high. Mobilely
played thirty four and a half minutes, Jarrett played just
under thirty three, and like, I feel like a lot
of that was a result of the Lopez thing not
really hitting as a reliable option, Love being in out
of the lineup, not playing super well, Wade out of

(48:29):
the lineup, but like giving those guys like I you know,
and this is something our buddy David Zavac talked about
a lot, is like because when we were looking at
this postseason, we're like, well, the core four are all
going to play like forty minutes, and like forty minutes
is a lot for bigs and they pretty much had
to play that. And I think if there's one thing
that this team can do. It's finding more players at

(48:53):
the end of the rotation that can, you know, help
them win games where they're only playing thirty You know,
he won thirty two now, MOBILEI he's a freak. I
feel like he's always going to be in the mid
thirties at the Calbary's going to be. But having nights
where he plays twenty eight, nights where Jerry only has
to play twenty six because other players have it going

(49:15):
so well. And I think they had that at the
beginning of the season. I thought it was a nice
call out and something we haven't talked about yet.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, I think that's a smart point. I don't I
agree with his conclusion where you want to manage the
minutes you want to.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
I don't really agree with the mobile looking guest in
the postseason, but I.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Just thought it was nowhere they Yeah, I was just
going to address that part because the Cavs did get
ten days off basically before the playoffs, right, And I
think that MOBILEI was trying a lot of things in
Game one and it wasn't working, and he started to,
you know, be less decisive and assertive out there.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
I think that was the biggest thing. But overall, I
really do agree with that conclusion.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
I think, you know, you want to manage the minutes
as much as possible. You don't want to wear these
guys out. Carter, Let's get to the greats and then
we'll talk about what the camera real.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Quick, real quick, we didn't hit Dean Wade improvements, and
I got.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
One I want.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
We did on the front end, I said health and
work on improving as a movement shooter.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
That that wasn't enough for me. I just wanted to
call it one stat Dean Wade when he was wide
open shot forty from three thirty nine point five to
be exact, very very respectable number. When he wasn't wide
open four to six feet guarded twenty eight percent, two

(50:33):
to four feet guarded sixteen percent. I want him to
work on his contested three point shooting. That was a thing.
That's a thing where the you watch these other teams
in the finals, and their role players can fire with
very very little space, and the Cavs just didn't have

(50:54):
a lot of that last year. He was twenty two
percent closely guarded. You know, I think I think that's
something that I just want to note with him moving
forward as a like, it's not just that you can
make wide open threes. You gotta draw gravity. You got
to hit with folks a little bit closer to you,
because those are the real backbreakers.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Yeah, it's great, shout out. That's not a set that
I realized in all my research for this, So good job, buddy.
Going through the grades, I get Mobley an A minus.
I would have given him an A for the regular season,
but I do bump him down just a little bit
for how he played in the postseason. And this is
again me grading on a curve based on expectations. I

(51:38):
hold MOBILEI at kind of Darius Garland level, where I
have really really high expectations for these guys and I
expect him to bounce back well from it. But I
bumped him down a little bit there. Dean Wade C plus.
I liked what I saw at the start of the season,
but everything after that was disappointing. Obviously, the injury Covey
out there, Alan, I give a B. I thought he

(52:01):
was overall very solid throughout the season. Stretches that were
better than that and stretches that were a little bit
worse again postseason bumps him down. A little bit and
Robin Lopez. See, I just I don't know how to
greet him again. His value to the team, A lot
of it came in ways that we just aren't going
to know, so I'll probably should have given it an incomplete,

(52:23):
but see feels fine based on what we saw on court.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I wanted to give Mobile an a minus because of
how the postseason went, but I just think you got
to zoom out and look at the leap he made
as a year two player on either side of the ball.
I mean, if I had told you he would be
the youngest finalist in deep Way history in his second
season the day after we drafted him, and you'd be

(52:49):
like a minus, I would you probably would slap yourself silly,
and I'd be.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Wondering if I was doing a bit. I would definitely
be wondering that.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, So I decided that I needed to get out
of my own feelings and just give him an A wade.
I gave a C minus. I think this was a
year where he had a real chance. I remember we're
talking about him as like the long term three at
the beginning of the year, and you know, again, it's
not fair. He got hurt things didn't were out of

(53:19):
his control, but you know, he certainly did not lock
down that spot, nor did he lock down a spot
in the rotation next year as far as I'm concerned.
So I got to give him a C minus based
on that same reasons I gave you gave Alan Abe,
I gave him a bee. Just a very solid season
from a very solid player I'm quite fond of, and
I think he's gonna bounce back from a rough postseason appearance.

(53:43):
And then finally Lopez, I gave a C minus. You
could you could talk me into worse, but you know,
he don't know what. Yeah, he was the Yeah, he
was the fifth big, and I do feel like he
got a dging him because he wasn't able to do
the thing that you hoped he would do, which is
guard big centers and play if guys got hurt and

(54:07):
be helpful.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
But you know, yeah, if your season breaks there, what
are you gonna do? I got a big question for you, man,
when we're talking about how this position group can be
addressed this offseason. I've seen some people talk about this,
like looking at free agents and saying, I'd love to
see the EML be used on someone like Nasreied, can
you bring yourself to see a scenario where you'd be

(54:31):
okay with the seeing the emily being used on a
big I think.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
We talked about this on the wings pod. But like,
I think you only go there if you've struck out
everywhere else. And it's between giving a guy who just
don't like that much that money or a guy you
really like at a position that's not a huge need
like that center that money. But that's not how free
agency works like that normally. Like like if nas Reid

(54:58):
is your like eighth the option for the mid level
by the time you sure sure, sure, But like just hypothetically,
if he's your eighth option, because of all the fit
reasons we already know about, by the time you've cycled
through options one through seven, most of the time, he's
gonna have already found work. Most guys don't like to
be the eighth option when they're a someone who can

(55:19):
command twelve million dollars a year.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
So for the record, I would love to be someone's
eighth option if it meant getting.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Twelve million a year. Yeah, I know, but you know
I think that is that is definitely the case. Uh
and uh so, yeah, sure I could foresee it, but
I just think the I think the confluence of events
that would lead us there are pretty long and winding.
So like depress, I would love to, you know, add

(55:48):
another shooter. I love Nazreith though, like if he right,
you know, if he if Like if that is our
worst case scenario, that's a pretty good worst case scenario,
even though they'd have to get creative on the on
the parameter.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Yeah, some smart team is going to be more than that,
but I would confident that to be a starter. I
thought he did a great job filling in for Cat.
Now this is an interesting one as well. Is power
forward or a traditional center a bigger need in your eyes?
Like would you rather have a four that can maybe
play some five or do you want to get that

(56:24):
traditional big out there that's going to be disruptive that
can be kind of that Isaiah Hartenstein type presence out there,
Like is that the direction you'd rather see if we
are bringing in another big man?

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I want a player who the Calves are pretty sure
can help can play that you know they have you know,
we've talked about this a lot about how when you're
a really young team and you're rebuilding. You need to
bring in these veterans like Ed Davis to help set
the culture and help teach the kids. But now the

(56:56):
Calves are at a point and they're rebuild where they're
or needs to set the culture. So I think that's
priority number one, getting someone who's got some some juice
left in those legs. And you know, I think talent
wins out ultimately. I do think this team, especially if
they add some, if they're chasing someone like Grant Williams

(57:18):
or someone like that with the mid level, they've got
enough three fours at that point. So I imagine whoever,
whatever big is being added, is going to be a
bi annual exception or a minimum guy. And to that end,
I think you kind of just have to look at talent.
I think a four or five, a four or five
hybrid would be nice. But also I get why you
might want, you know, someone who's a little bit larger

(57:43):
just to help, you know, absorb some blows, but like
space the floor a little bit too like that, like
you know, like I know, some folks have thrown out
like Mobimba as an interesting name, though I think he'll
be too expensive. But you know, like a guy like
that is interesting archetypically, but like I just think they
should find the best player they can get and kind

(58:07):
of worry about fit later because the reality is, sure
you might say, hey, we need someone to throw out
Joel Embiid, but like the reality is, if you're benching
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley so you can guard Joel
Embiid better, you're probably not. You've probably lost your way. Yeah,
So get good players that should matter much more than

(58:27):
the archetype when when you're talking about you're eleventh, twelve, thirteenth,
fourteenth men.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
I mean, this is the analysis that people come to
the Chase Down podcast for. You get good players. Well,
sometimes people forget and you know, like Kobe Altman, throughout
his tenure has been incredibly aggressive and he's been incredibly
creative with kind of the ways that he's gone out
and found guys. Right, Like, maybe there is an unforeseen

(58:53):
possibility on the trade market right where you can get
someone in like that seven million range that can be
the third big because you use the mid level exception
on a wing that you feel good about and maybe
you did another trade with with non guaranteed contracts to
bring in another wing and you feel good about those
two with let's say Caro and Okoro as well as

(59:15):
your wing rotation. And you're saying, man, I got some
non guaranteed contracts, maybe I can use these second round
picks and bring in a guy that can help us.
They're big, right, Like, I really do feel like he's
going to explore all options because that's the way it's gone, right, Like,
and you.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Have to based on how the postseason went, you can't.
I feel like nobody on this team, including a couple
members of the core, for though they inherently have more security,
but no one played well enough for years to go.
We're probably fine there, Right, You're going to investigate every
position group. You just have to.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
And that wasn't the messaging on me are the exit
interviews either, right, it was, Hey, we're prioritizing shooting where
we're going to look to improve this bench?

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (59:56):
And I know some people again, memories get short, and
people weren't thrilled that no moves were made at the
trade deadline, and you know, you and I both were like, yeah,
we would have liked to see something there, but you
look at Okay, the biggest chip that they had was
Karris Lavert and Karslivert played really well down the stretch,
and he played very well against the Knicks, right, Like,

(01:00:19):
there could have been options that take him off the table,
Like I don't think swapping him for any player that
was moved at the deadline that was realistic, Like Josh
Hart not realistic because he moved forward first. Every single
player that was moved at the deadline, if you swap
Karris LeVert for them, I don't think it changes the
outcome of that series. So I think when you're looking

(01:00:40):
forward at what the Cavs can do to get better,
a lot of it's coming to come internally. They're going
to explore options to round out the roster and supplement
that talent. But you look at the NBA Finals right now,
what does it tell you continuity really matters? You see
that across the NBA continuity really really matters. This is
like you're five of that Denver core together and they

(01:01:01):
didn't make massive tweaks, right Like bringing Aaron Gordon in
was really really smart, But then you know smart signing
in Bruce Brown, bringing in Contavious Caldwell, Pulp, little moves
in the margins like that really moved the needle for them,
and that could be the difference between a four game
series where the Nuggets one in four against the Lakers,
but the margins were thin. If you didn't have Bruce

(01:01:23):
Brown and you didn't have Kntavious Caldwell Pulp in there,
that could have gone completely differently. And as much as
we talk about the stars and being a star driven league,
that continuity and these moves in the margins can really
really make a big difference.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Yeah, it kind of goes back to the idea that
while you had, like, on one hand, you have to
sit you have to understand where the cows are in
terms of how big their piggy bank is to make moves,
you know, like and so far as like they had,
they are asset poor by comparison to some teams. They
did trade quite a bit to go get Donovan Mitchell

(01:01:58):
and Kars Slavert for that matter. However, on the other hand,
you still like Kobe Oltman has a job to do,
and there is just so much evidence of these teams
finding super help, Like look at the finals and look
at how cash strapped these teams were to fill out

(01:02:20):
their rosters. Bruce Brown for like six million Christian Brown
at the end of the first round. Uh, the entire
heat roster. Like like if you're good, if you're a
good organization, uh, you know, you reap what you sell.
And and so the Calves need to value these these
opportunities and and and too. They can find helpful players

(01:02:44):
to help this team take take another jump. It's just
gonna be hard, but that's why they make the big bucks.
And we are podcasters.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Yeah, and we just try our best.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
No accountability, baby, Well we're.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Accountable to each other because we'll just roast each other
every single time that we're wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
But yeah, I honestly, I'm glad we talked a little
free agency here because next couple weeks are spoken for. Man,
we're going to do crash course of the NBA Draft
next week, learn about some second round sleepers. That's you know,
that's going to be us learning about the draft as
well as our listeners. They probably our listeners probably know

(01:03:24):
more about the draft than we do.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Bo.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
We'll bring on someone smart that'll help us out, and
then we'll do a draft recap the week after and
after that we're already a free agency. Man, this is
going to happen very, very quickly. I'm excited. Obviously, as
you mentioned, the Cavs don't have a lot of money
to offer in free agency, they don't have a ton
of trade assets. But this is an organization that has
gone creative and like you said, man like teams are

(01:03:48):
going to go for those top tier free agents first
we can go in, We can sneak in and go
make compelling pitches to those tier three and four guys.
So hopefully, as much as I hate the transaction time
and I just like watching and talking about basketball, it
makes me nervous now that it's here, because now we're

(01:04:11):
eventually going to get definitive answers, and I like the
hypotheticals and the potential more than actually opening the mystery box.
But we'll be here for all of that. Big thanks
to all our listeners that have been here for us
and listening to us live on YouTube. Make sure you
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(01:04:32):
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Make sure you guys are staying safe out there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
Until next time, Go.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Cass stas set st