Offseason Report Card: Wings

Justin and Carter continue their 2022-23 positional review by taking a closer look at the Cavaliers wing play from the past season. What worked, what can improve and what opportunities exist this summer. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
What Carl slamming it out?

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Carl left wing reball perfect Arl, there have block the shot.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
At the rim?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
How with the left hand and a fowl.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Chase Down Podcast, part of the cas Media family.
I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented
by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels of live
sports and TV for half the cost of cable. There's
no contract and no commitment to try for free at
FuboTV dot com. We are continuing our off season recap
of the year that was with the Wings Position group.
But before we get into that, I got to introduced

(00:37):
my co host, Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how are you doing, buddy?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm doing good, Bun, got dinner with a good buddy,
and uh, last night I was you know, you know,
I'll always enjoy a Celtics loss, perhaps almost as much
as any Cavalier win. So seeing them being sent home
unceremoniously brought some warmth to this cold heart.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
It really did. I was feeling like I was about
to be loud wrong on this here podcast for maybe
what the hundredth time in the last calendar year where
last podcast I was talking about how every top seed
in the Eastern Conference has this bad loss, their season
is ending on a sour note, and for Boston to
come all the way back force the game seven, I

(01:26):
got nervous. I got nervous that my take was going
to age horribly. But really that's just about the most
painful way to lose. I actually have like a little
bit of sympathy. Would you rather get swept or come
back in that fashion and then lose that way at
home in Game seven?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I think the answer three months from now would be
you'd rather have what the Celtics had immediately, Maybe you'd
rather get swept. I don't know. It was such a
weird series because I was thinking about it and it
was the well, if anyone's going to do it would
be them, But like six different times, like if any
eight seed was ever going to go up three to

(02:05):
oh on a on a on a two seed in
the conference finals, it would be the Heat. If any
if any upper seed was going to mess around and
get run out of the playoffs, it would be the Celtics.
If any team was ever going to come back from
three to oh, it was going to be a two
seed going up against an eight seed. If there's ever
going to be a team that was not going to
be deferred by a heartbreaking Game six loss at home,

(02:28):
it would be the Heat. And it turned out the Heats.
If any team was going to outweigh the outweigh Boston's,
they ended up taking the win. And man, they've just
got to be the toughest, the mentally toughest team I've
seen in some time. They it didn't even seem like
it bothered them that much that they lost Game six,

(02:51):
Like I think anyone would have forgiven them for getting
you know, for coming out flat in game saven or
maybe only surviving up to the first Boston run. But
they just kind of play their game. They're they're even
Steven man. You can't take them out of what they do.
And you know there's so yeah and Jose the Lunatic too. Yeah,

(03:11):
that's true. The match made in Heaven. Yeah, and uh,
you know, I just think there's so many lessons for
the Calves to take away from this Heat run in
terms of from the front office, finding finding underappreciator or
underutilized players and turning them into great players. Creating a
system from a coaching perspective that allows different players to

(03:35):
thrive every night or for entire series that had you know,
previously never done. So it is uh for the players.
A guy like Bam out of Bayo as a role
model for Evan Mobley and and for Mobiley to watch
his game kind of expand there's just so many good

(03:56):
lessons I think from this Heat team for this calves
Steve to learn and also it and then also from
a from a team building perspective, it is a bank
on shooting talent and even if it's not consistent, if
you bank on it and you have a high variant
stretch where you're where you're hitting above your average, you

(04:19):
can make any finals run. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, It's like it's funny because they weren't a good
shooting team throughout the year, but so many of their
guys for their career were better shooters than the numbers.
And I guess that's one of the advantages of when
you do have a good defense, you can kind of
have that high baseline. And I guess we saw the
opposite of that with the Cavs right where the defense
kept them in that series with the Knicks, but the

(04:42):
shooting just wasn't there for them, and I guess that
to some extent that's the modern NBA. But on the
other hand, they just they had more options to go to.
Right Like Kevin loved didn't didn't play in this, I
did love Kevin Victory lapping over every single season he's
been in the playoffs, he's made the NBA Finals.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I like that. I enjoyed thirty three playoff appearance rate.
But never mind that I did enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Before we get into the kas Wings Carter, I do
want to touch on a couple other updates. At the
top of the Eastern Conference, Nick Nurse to Philly, I
like to see the concentration of all all of my
basketball gripes in one spot of Nick Nurse, Daryl Morey,
Joel Embian and possibly James Harden. That it just makes

(05:31):
it simpler from a scheduling standpoint, just a.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Body and hard goood to only have to deal with
it a few times a year instead of like eight times.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I also I liked the hiring of Adrian Griffin for
the Bucks. I thought, you know, even though there were
a lot of coaches on the market with championship experience,
you look at kind of how the vibes were around
those teams, you know, the complaints about not making adjustments,
rotations and all that. I kind of like going the
new Blood route.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So I give this. Still wouldn't have fired. I still
wouldn't have fired Bud. But that's that's me and we
don't need to religate that right now.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, And I mean I had the tweet from the
twenty twenty playoff run or twenty twenty one title win
where I said, even if they win the championship, by Firebud,
which is basically the only time I've wighed in on
a coaching debate like that.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
But it was a little tongue in cheek.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
But Carter, before we get into the position groups, I've
been dying to talk about the mail, I need to
talk about my Winnipeg Sea Bears. And what I ask
is that you grant me sixty seconds of Sea Bears Carter.
I feel like that's fair. It is the off season.
We are star for content. We don't have a first
round pick. I demand sixty seconds of Sea Bears talk.
Will you grant it to me?

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Justin I would grant you an hour, But I know
that what we want isn't necessarily what the listeners want,
side will I will throw sixty seconds on the clock
and justin your time starts now.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
The Sea Bears kicked off their inaugural season with the
largest crowd in CEBL history at a sold out Canada
Life Center. Glen Yang hit the first basket in franchise history,
a deep three off a deflected dribble to beat the
shot clock Splashy signing Teddy Allen didn't live up to
the Teddy Buckets nickname, shooting four of twenty three to
get his thirteen points on the night, but it was
made up for by MIAMVP on the night. E J

(07:22):
n Oseke, the man who spent last year in the
G League for Texas and Salt Lake City, put up
twenty one points, eleven rebounds and was the clear cut
most composed player on the court, along with twenty two
points from Gelaney Watson Gale off the bench. But we
can't have a Sea Bear segment without shouting out the
Winnipeg Boys U Sport Rookie of the Year Simon Hillebrand
shook off some first half ginners in front of his
home crowd and finished with thirteen points off the bench

(07:44):
and shows some impressive body control attacking the rim, and
finally hometown hero Trod Posthumus overcame foul trouble by getting
the game winning put back to secure the ninety eighty
five elam ending win. Sea Bears beat the Vancouver bandits usin.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
You got it all in with time to spare. How
about that. I am so proud of you. Heck of
a Sea Bear Sunday update on a Tuesday. You know,
I think we're still going to call it Sea Bear Sundays,
even though we almost never record on Sundays. I just
like the vibe and you can have a minute of
Sea Bear talk whenever you want now, justin. I haven't

(08:23):
watched yet, but it does look like there is a
streaming option, and I think I'm gonna have to purchase
in solidarity.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
There is free streaming, even gosh free online streaming, you know,
my gosh, make it accessible. It's for the children. I
gotta say, Carter, the first time really experiencing in person
like a well thought out elam ending. I loved it
so the way that they do it is the first
stoppage under four minutes in the fourth quarter. They add

(08:51):
nine points to whoever's in the lead and that becomes
the target score. So Winnipeg was up eighty sixty seven
normally you know, under four minutes, no problem at all.
They blow that lead, it is eighty five. All I
am stressed out as hell. Winnipeg hits a three put
back for the win. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I really like going out there.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Now, where are the seats? Where are the seats? Justin
it's it's right in line with the free throw line.
I'm always looking at that Winnipeg bench or that Winnipeg basket.
So any game winner I'm going to see that.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Love that. But I really I like the elam ending.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
It's FEBA rules, so they allow a little more physicality
to I thought it was a lot of fun. And
I also got to give out a shadow Carter listener
and fan of the pod, Jeff, who came up to
me after the game season ticket holder rate by me
and said that he is a massive Cab fan and
listens to the pod and actually recognized me, which blew
my mind.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
That was there are one more Caps fans in Winnipeg
than I thought there were.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I think it might just be us two And like
that was just the universe giving me that moment that
made my entire day. So I needed to shout him
out because that that really was a lot of fun. Yeah,
I've seen our winnipick down little numbers, Carter. They're they're
not They're not great.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Go Sea Bears, man, And I love the merch. You know,
if if there's any road to me ordering some, I'm
certainly gonna do so. Yeah, if you were really a friend,
you'd send me some. But it's fine, it's fine. I'm
collecting my own right now. I'm Carter. I'm not made
of money here, but yeah, I understand that I would.
I would PayPal. You come on anyway, I figure this

(10:32):
is not what people are here for. Even though I
would highly recommend some folks check out check out the
next Sea Bears game. It's gonna be a fun season
and we're certainly going to do it whether you like
it or not. The Chase Down podcast.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, here's the thing, Carter's like, I'm a man that
consumes way too many basketball podcasts, and so many of
them are self indulgent. You have, like the thirty minutes
of banter before any of the basketball talk starts.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I think a minute's okay. I think indulgent in what
about five minutes after the minute, because that's what we
just got.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
No, No, that's that's separate. That's talking about e la mande,
and that's something the NBA is experimenting with. I can
justify that. I can justify that guarter.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, I love let's just get into it. Let's just
get into the way. I love our bears. But let's
jump right into our cavaliers. All right, So.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
We're going to start things off position group for the Wings.
I arbitrarily kind of picked this to be Kroslovert Isaaca, Corrol,
Jetty Osmond, Lamar, Stevens, Danny Green, Dean Wade. I think
you could make an argument could be included in this group.
But we're doing three episodes and I wanted to stretch
them ount and put them with the big so, you know, to.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Put Lamar with the biggs. But I think you're probably
right to put them with the wings.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
I was going to, but it turned out that sixty
seven percent of his minutes came at either shooting guard
or small forward.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
This listen, guard your guard as many point guards as
Lamar guarded this season. You're a wing buddy. There you go.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I want to kick things off with what went
well this season, and I would say one of the
more divisive players between you and I has been Karis Lavert.
I really enjoyed the season. I think he got a
lot better after the trade deadline, after the pressure of
kind of having his name and all those rumors was
removed from him. But overall, I thought it was a

(12:16):
great season and what you would want from Karris Lavert. Realistically,
his three point shooting numbers were strong across the board,
thirty nine point two percent on the year. He shot
thirty eight point nine percent on pull ups, thirty nine
point three percent on catch and shoot, thirty eight point
seven above the break, forty one point three percent from

(12:36):
the corner, and Basketball Index has this handy number for
how your your openness rating on three point attempts only
thirty fourth percentile for openness rating, And I think a
lot of that comes over to those contested pull ups
that he took. But this was one of those areas
that he really worked on in the offseason and it
really paid dividends.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, he really shot the ball quite well well, I'm
all told, he still went through stretches of inconsistency. I
still don't think he's a crazy gravity player, but more
often than not he was a good enough shooter out there,
and if anything, he should have taken maybe some more

(13:17):
from from a volume perspective. So yes, I absolutely think
the jumper from three very specifically, and we'll talk about
what didn't go so well later, but in terms of
you know, I do feel like he was a guy
that when he was when he was taking them with confidence,
it felt good. And there weren't a lot of wings
who you could really say that about consistently, or that

(13:39):
you didn't want holding your breath a little bit. And
he had games where he caught fire from three and
won them games. So I thought that was certainly a strength.
And obviously your next note, I think his playmaking was
quite good, especially the first half of the year with
no Ricky Rubio. I think part of the reason they
weathered that so well alongside some strong min's from howlinetto

(14:01):
is that Kris did a really nice job as a
primary pick and roll ball handler. Yeah, he really didn't.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
That was one of the things that we talked about
before the season was how much of a need is
a backup point guard? Because you did have strong playmaking
numbers or secondary play making numbers from Karroslavert as well
as at the time Colin Sexton. So I thought that
the playmaking was really good. He made a lot of
passes to Jared Allen and Evan Mobley that really.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Kind of jump out.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
I still think kind of his playmaking, he doesn't see
the entire corek like I don't think you see him
running a pick and roll and then spraying it to
the far corner or anything like that. But I think
what you want from a secondary playmaker you get from
Karas Lavern. I also thought his defense was strong. Again,
this is something that's subjective, but the metrics that we
do have are positive. He was eighty six percentile in

(14:52):
defensive EPM and again using Basketball Index, which a great site.
You guys should support it, nine percentile for on ball
perimeter defense, which I think matches the eye test. I
think sometimes he was a little overeager. We can certainly
point out at instances where he fouled three point shooters
and kind of possessions on the perimeter that you like

(15:14):
to have back, but I think it was all in
the service of trying to play hard, and I thought
his defense overall was really good. I think for what
you wanted from Karris Lavert this this was pretty a
pretty damn good season for him, even though as you said,
there were some rough patches in there.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I think certainly it was solid. You know, this is
a spot where we are going to disagree a little bit,
but before I disagree, and we have plenty of room
to talk about where we want to see improvement, where
I can kind of levy some of my concerns. He
was very good on ball this season, especially on ball,

(15:55):
in my opinion, I think off ball more to equipval
with Still, but on but on ball, I thought he
was the second most capable perimeter defender on the team
in terms of, you know, at least especially against guards.
You know, I thought he did as good as as Oquarrel.

(16:17):
Really over the course of the next series. On Brunson,
maybe not quite as well, but like he certainly held
his own. It was not a layup line. He shut
off angles. He played more physically than I've seen him play.
He was especially good in that game too. Yeah, And
I think in terms of just noting well in a

(16:38):
playoff series that went so so wrong, I thought Carris
was okay, you know, like I think, especially as a
scorer in that next series, you know, he averaged fifteen
five and three forty three percent from the field, thirty
six from three in the series. You know, not great,

(16:59):
but like just a lot better than everyone else, and
that kind of matters.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is it fair to say that if you were going
into that series and I told you that line, you
would be happy with it because you were assuming you
were getting more from the Core four.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yes, I think that would be the way I would say.
I think there's plenty to quibal with even with this
postseason run. I don't want to just like give Carte
Blanche praise because I don't think he was awesome in
the postseason, but I thought he was good enough for
to be the team's fifth or sixth man, and the
lineup Dada mostly bore that out that win. Those five
were on the floor together, the Core four plus Chris,

(17:37):
they were okay against the next It was every other
minute that wasn't so okay. So you know, I still
think he was over text. You know, he played thirty
four minutes a game in the postseason. You know, I
really do think he's more of a twenty five to
twenty six minute a game postseason player for kind of
max Carris output. But you know, thirteen assists only five

(17:59):
turnovers in this series. I think even that, you know,
fifteen five and three in that series goes a pretty
darn long way, and he helped them win a game.
He helped them win their only win in the postseason.
So as a staunch Karris criticizer and someone who's always

(18:22):
been concerned about the FED, I think he needs to
get some love for his postseason play.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Definitely agree there. Moving on Jeddy Osmond, kind of the
notes that I had that what I enjoyed from JEDDI season,
but do you moved well off ball and he was
a willing shooter. I think that's one of the biggest
things that he brings to the lineup. You look at
the early season lineup data, and I think that was
a big part of why those lineups were so successful.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
The Cosney shooting.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
They have a lot of talented players and Jeddy just
kind of made sense as that fifth guy. I thought
he had nice moments against the Knicks as well. You know,
there were moments that didn't go as well, but again
that kind of goes back to maybe being asked to
do a little more than he should. And I also
think that it's worth noting that he improved his finishing

(19:10):
at the rim this season. Last year he was at
sixty one percent. That went up to sixty six percent.
I think to start the year it was even better,
and he had a little bit of a lull in
the middle of the year. But I thought overall, Jeddy
had a pretty solid year. What kind of stood out
to you as his strength this season?

Speaker 1 (19:30):
He continued in his role as the Cavaliers accelerant in
the regular season. He was the cause of many a
Cavalanche this season. He was the plus minus god that
could be that high variance player that sparked big runs.
I thought, is you know, I think he had his

(19:50):
best season as a scorer. He you know, per thirty six,
he didn't have a career high in per thirty six,
but from an efficiency standpoint, he shot thirty seven percent
from three on seven threes per thirty six, forty five
percent overall career best from two point and three point

(20:10):
percentages without a crazy drop off in his other stats.
I just thought he I thought, he really is a
guy who the more you need from him, the worse
he looks. You know in terms of the but when
he gets just thrive in the cracks, in the in
the in the empty spaces and be his chaotic self,

(20:32):
he really does his best. And the Cabs were more
talented this year at the top, and that allowed Jetty
to look really, really good in the regular season. So
I think that's where I just kind of, you know,
put a button on the on the Jetti discussion and
just saying, like, he did what he did last year,
but even better at his best.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, And I think some of that what we were
hoping for was there's probably going to be more playmaking
this season, right that they you know, you have Donovan
out there, you might not see that post Ricky Rubio
drop off that he had the prior year. And I
think for the most part that basically bore out. It
was really just kind of that January lull where you know,

(21:12):
Kevin Love wasn't playing well, Jety wasn't playing well, and
just the that was the worst month, right like that.
That was the month where the Kasmon five hundred. Eventually
they switched to Okoro being in the starting lineup and
things turned around. From that point that it was basically
the end of Kevin love playing as well for this team,
which I guess ties in nicely too. Isaac Ocoro, who

(21:35):
I think the biggest improvements that I saw from him
this year was I thought he was more impactful as
a defender and really kind of blossomed into being more
of an event defender rather than someone that's, you know,
just kind of in position doing his job, which you
really need to be in today's NBA because the offensive
talent is so high and the rules are in such

(21:56):
a way that simply just contesting the shots isn't going
to really cut it. When you're a defender, You need
to get into guys. You need to disrupt the rhythm.
You need to generate those steels, you need to generate
those blocks, and I thought he did a great job
of that. His steel percentage went up to the seventieth
percentile from forty eighth the prior year, sixtieth percentile, in

(22:17):
block percentage up from twenty ninth, that's a massive jump.
And then utilizing again those B Ball Index stats on
ball defense, he was in the eighty eight percentile and
screen navigation ninety fourth percentile, which all matches the eye test.
This is a guy that sticks to his man navigates
screens very intelligently, and obviously the remade jump shot got

(22:39):
a lot of the conversation going into this year. Started off,
oh of twelve from three, but after that point shot
thirty nine percent from three. So again, the volumes low.
We'll get into that when we'd like to see improvement.
But is there anything that I didn't touch on, Carter
that kind of stood out to you that you liked
from acor this year?

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it was nice to see his shooting splits kind
of improve everywhere at the rim. Last year he was
sixty five percent. This year is sixty eight and a
half three from the three to ten feet range where
he didn't take a ton of shots. To be clear,
he went from twenty six percent to forty three percent,

(23:18):
and then from three he went to thirty five. From
thirty five to thirty six. And you know, it didn't
feel like a year where all of his percentages got better,
but they did. Even even though he shot a greater
percentage of his shots from three, his field goal percentage
still went up, you know, one point four points. Uh,

(23:41):
you know, and I think to your point, on the
defensive end, he did he is starting to become a
bigger event defender. I think some of that came at
the cost of fouling. He felt three and a half
times p thirty six, and that got him in some
hot water. I think he had a rough whistle this year,

(24:03):
a whole sale.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
That's yeah. I completely agree with Adie. I thought he
got a flat out terrible whistle, to be honest. But again,
I'm a big old, big old homework.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, you know what's kind of wild. I was looking
at his basketball reference page. You know, he's averaged ten
point seven points per thirty six all three years. I know,
it's crazy, it's really incredible. That's crazy. But his efficiency
went up, so you know, like there there is you know,
like I think there is probably a class of people

(24:34):
who would say Isaac has not gotten better on the
offensive of the ball. And I certainly have criticized him
for not getting better enough on the offensive end of
the ball. But his rookie year, he he shot forty
two percent from the field and twenty nine percent from three.
You know, like those are enormous jumps at seven point

(24:55):
four percentage points better from the field, and again the
fielder percentage in three point percent. Because I don't think
we've said it on yet forty nine point four from
the field this season and thirty six from three, So
those are those are meaningful jumps from his rookie year. Now,
obviously his shot diet is much better then, you know,

(25:17):
in terms of he's got a lot more help, so
they should be better. But like I do think you're
seeing small dividends. It's just a matter of are those
dividends enough to continue, you know, investing in him at
that spot.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, and when the volumes that low to again kind
of play Devil's advocate there, when the volumes that low,
like swings in percentages can occur, right. I think that
the consensus on three point shots normalizing is seven hundred attempts.
It's going to take them a while to get up
to those numbers, right, And we've seen years from guys

(25:52):
like Jay Crowder the year before he came over to
the CAAZ where he had that outlier year shooting from three,
and sometimes that happened, right, So everything about a Korol
hit has always kind of centered around can he up
that volume?

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Right? And I think before we.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Move on from him, the other thing I'd like to
point out is I do think he got better at
moving off ball, like I thought, they started to use
him more as a screener. He was starting to be
more active, not just standing in the corner. I still
think that that's a major area of growth, and we'll
get into that shortly, but I do think that there
was some growth in that area as well.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Absolutely, let's move on to Lamar, who had a weird season,
I would say, because he kind of, in my opinion,
he kind of functioned as JB's like, well, at least
I know what Lamar is going to give me, guy
like he was. He he is like he is. I think,

(26:48):
you know, from the outside looking in, it seems like
he's a coaching staff favorite. His time in the starting
lineup coincide with a lot of wins, so he get
credit for that, even if the lineup Tata didn't show
that the starting line up was functioning that well with
him at the at the three. But I know that

(27:10):
you wanted to talk about him as a power for
it because I really, even though he's in the wing group,
I thought he I will agree with you that his
best man's were at the four this year.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, it kind of is a funny inclusion and you're right.
Lamar was the guy where when the intensity didn't seem
to be at the level that it needed to be,
he was put in. Which is kind of funny because
I do agree with your assessment, But then you look
at the start of the year, and he did play
to start the year. He wasn't in the initial rotation

(27:40):
coming out of camp. It really was that stretch where
they were in a bit of a funk there looking
for some life.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Isaac was lost.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Isaac was lost. Caris had asked JB to come off
the bench. He thought that was the best way he
could contribute. So Lamar was the option that they went to,
and eventually Isaac did find his groove and took that
starting spot and played well within it. But Lamar did
give them some life. As he said, even though that
lineup data wasn't great with the five of them, he

(28:10):
still helped kind of breathe some life into the lineup
and he really did find his niche. And I think
the biggest takeaway is he did play well as a
power forward. I think that's when you can get him
the ball moving downhill. He moves well in those instances.
He has those couple kind of quick post moves, turn
around mid range jumpers, that that kind of thing that

(28:31):
he can really get you in those spots and actually
kind of played well as a big two in some
instances too, where they use him as a screener, although
I don't think that's the best use of him defensively,
but his lineup data at power forward that was easily
the best because that small forward is break even at
shooting guardy in brief minutes I think seventeen percent of

(28:52):
his minutes it was about plus three, but his plus
six point nine with him at power forward, which was
thirty three percent of his total minutes, thought that that
was kind of the best usage of him. You know,
he's a guy that depending on what the Cavs do
this offseason, I would kind of anticipate if he's still
on the roster that it would be similar to last year,

(29:12):
where I don't think he would be in the initial
starting lineup or in starting rotation, I should say, but
I do think, you know, as a kind of break
glass in case of emergency. I thought they they found
a little bit of something with him at power forward.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, I would agree. Let's move on to Danny Green,
who I don't think we have to spend much time
because he didn't play much. Yeah, if you only know
what I have is he still has a shooting touch,
still can shoot. He can still shoot, and he still
thinks the game at an unbelievably high level. He relocates
better than any other Cavalier wing and that just comes

(29:49):
from being a really, really smart and one of the
best VAT wings of his generation. He just knows basketball
better than any of these dudes. He just does. And
I think he still showed that.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Uh yeah, let's just let's just knock out area for improvement.
So he's a free agent. We don't know if he's back,
but if he is back with the Calves, I just
have improved mobility, so it's easier to keep him on
the court, you know, a little more removed from that injury.
As he said, I think the IQ is there, I
think the shooting's there. If he were to return to
the Calves, I just want to see him move a

(30:23):
little bit better, so it's easier to keep him on
the court. Yeah, I have no other notes. Yeah, he
didn't he didn't move super well. I think everyone knew it.
You know, it's hard coming back from catastrophic the injury
when you're thirty five, so very much hoping that, you know,
if he is back with the team next year, that
he gets a you know that he's looking and feeling

(30:45):
really good in that knee. And but yeah, I mean
he's I still have quite the soft spot for Danny Green.
It's one of my favorite role players ever. Yeah, he's awesome.
I think we touched on that when and he's signed.
We're both big fans of him. Let's knock out the
other kind of quick area for improvement because I do
want to kind of get into it with laver De

(31:07):
Koro and Jetty Lamar. The rebounding needs to improve. If
he's going to be a small ball power forward for
the Cavs, he needs to get better as a rebounder.
I'm not saying he's necessarily a bad rebounder, but the
lineup data was awful in terms of offensive rebounds given up.
It's amazing that they were plus six point nine in

(31:29):
those minutes per cleaning the glass when opponents rebounding thirty
three point six percent of their misses with him at
power forward Carter on the year, Like, that's over a
third of missshots resulted in an offensive rebound with Lamar
at power forward, and I guess you know, that goes
to show kind of the second effort from the Cavs

(31:49):
defense to rally after giving up those rebounds. But I
do think if he's going to get minutes, if he's
still in the roster next year, that would be an
area of growth, just to kind of get more juice
out of those small ball four minutes from him.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
I couldn't agree more In general, I just kind of
feel like this is almost a Kobe Altman front office
note of like I just think right now, they I
think last season they just asked too much Olamar, you know,
I mean, he really is kind of their break class
in case for emergency first choice right now if if

(32:26):
someone gets hurt and then all of a sudden, he's
starting games. Like I just feel like.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Which is funny because that was Wade, That was Wade
last year, and then Wade had had his injury too, right, so.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
They needed a more because they traded three roll three
rotation players for one. But like, I just feel like
it was asking a lot of him to to go
be that guy for them, to be a starter for
them this season. I think that kind of reflects on
where their death was and where the rest of the

(33:01):
players in around those minutes were playing. And yeah, I
just think like he was probably a spot or two
in the rotation too high for my liking, but not
because I thought there was amazing options that should have
been getting those minutes. So you know, I think that
you know, some more competition for him would be wise.
I do want to keep stay on the rebounding note

(33:24):
for Isaac. That's interesting because listen, I understand he's not
gonna have gravity on offense right now and maybe not ever.
You know, people still ignore PJ. Tucker and he's turned
himself into a pretty darn good three point shooter in
the corner. But if you're going to be a low

(33:44):
volume offensive player that hangs his hat on you know,
iso defense, on ball defense, you got to bring other
stuff to the court more consistently. And as much as
you know, we've argued in the discord about his role
and his use his role within the offense and how

(34:08):
sometimes that can limit him. You know what, Neil is
not capped by his role or anything. It's his rebounding man.
He averaged per thirty six, He averaged four point one
rebounds playing almost primarily small forward, Like you can't be

(34:30):
like at the three, and like that's part of the
reason why the Cavs defensive rebounding isn't where it is,
because they're not getting a lot of rebounding help anywhere
other than Mobile or Allen right now. Yeah, because Wade
is not a particularly good rebounder. Stevens is not a
particularly good rebounder, okorro I would say is below average. Yeah,

(34:51):
And the funny thing, and you just can't be being
as athletic as he is, as strong as he is
with good instincts, and I know you're not getting to
get as many defensive rebounds when you guarding the guy
on the other side, Like there is a probably a
pretty direct correlation there. But even on the offensive board,
its only won a game. Like I'm just I'm not

(35:12):
seeing it. I'm not seeing I want him to be
a little He's strong enough and athletic enough to be
chaotic and annoying. Why can't he Josh Hart doesn't have
a hard time grab took it from me. He took
it from me. I was he doesn't have a hard
time grabbing rebounds while guarding Donovan Mitchell.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, and he's short of it O korl right, like
he's only six four, And really that's the biggest difference
because you know Josh Hart at times he has been
three point shooter, low volume, very similar kind of offensive
out but the biggest difference is kind of those you know,
hustle plays and Kral you it jumps out like sometimes
he does get incredibly impressive offensive rebounds and you're like,

(35:51):
I want more of that, right, Like, do you think
to some extent it's a team mentality thing where they
need to be more aware of it and that's something
that they can take away from the nixt season where
there was just kind of an assumption that, hey, we
have Jared Allen, we have it of mobile out there.
We don't need to kind of team rebound at the
same level because we have two seven footers. Do you
think that might be part of it here or is

(36:13):
this just kind of you know, individual skill sets and
not something that's going to change unless personnel changes. If
it is philosophical, I sure hope it changes, because their
philosophy gave them the worst defensive rebounding team, UH affles
All Star Break and UH the by a country mile

(36:34):
worst defensive rebounding team in the postseason. Yeah, I completely
agree with you. I think that this is a really
smart point.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I just I like, listen, like, I'm not gonna ask
Isaac to be something he's not, Like I don't think
it's fair, Like I'm not like, why aren't you running
pick and roll? Because I don't really know if that's
part of who he's gonna be, but like, if you're
gonna be a low usage offensive guy from a from
a shooting perspective, I just got notice yet, and you

(37:01):
can choose that, you can choose to be noticed, you know.
And I just feel like he is too capable of
fading into the background, like I thought. I want to
say it's Game four against the Knicks where Isaac was
a little out of control, but in a way that
was kind of fun, Like I kind of liked it,
even though I was like, oh okay, reel it back

(37:22):
a little bit, buddy, but like he came in and
was like a breath of like of energy, Like he
brought that Jetty Osmond chaos, and that's what I want
to see. And he's got a body in an athletic
profile that should allow him to thrive being a chaos
generator and he just hasn't been that so far in
his career.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
And honestly, I think he has good rebounding instincts because
when he is moving around it and he's you know,
not behind the three point arc, I think he crashes
in and gets some really contested rebounds, like he got
some offensive rebounds that were noteworthy against the Knicks, And
I think it all kind of ties into even though
his off ball movement has improved, I think he needs
to be more consistently active. I think that's one of

(38:03):
our big takeaways, right, like just how we say he
became more of an event defender. He's generating blocks, he's
generating steals, generate those second chance opportunities. Be that guy
that's forcing the defense to account for you. Because if
you're moving around and you're looking to crash the offensive rebounds,
you were going to have gravity as a result of
that too. So I think you're right. I think him

(38:24):
being a more active player would really help him because
he is a smart finisher around the rim. He is
a good cutter, and when you're dealing with passers, when
you're dealing with NBA players that have good vision, there
I see movement. If you're looking like you're moving with
a purpose and you're getting into those passing lanes, guys
are going to find you. And I think that that

(38:46):
is where I'd really like to see some growth because
even though the three point shooting improved again, the volume
is very low. We talked about how Kris's openness rating
on Castball Index was thirty four percent thirty fourth percentile,
which you know is low. For Isaac it was the
one hundred percent stile. Nobody was more open than him,

(39:09):
and he was only fifty eight percent for fifty eight
percentile in catch and shoot three, which was thirty.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Volume was in the in the upper fiftieth percentile.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right right, So that it's an area of an improvement.
I feel better about his jump shot. I think the
form has improved. I think he did take some contested looks.
I think the willingness to shoot was better. But he's
going to need to improve in these other areas, and
I think that's how you start to get more juice
out of him overall, because as much as I'd like
to see him more involved in the offense, and we've

(39:42):
had our disagreements about that as well, or how you
can use him, I should say, I do think that
the ways like, there's only so many possessions, there's so
much talent at the top end of this roster. There's
only so much possessions and being that guy that is
a chaos generary that generates the sex or opportunities. That's

(40:02):
you know, the small Ford Tressan Thompson as I called
them in the past. That's what you want for Icycle
Coral and that's where I think the biggest area of
improvement is for him.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I completely agree. Let's move on to Uh did Jeddie Okay?
You want to go first? Uh? Yeah, I would go first.
And you know, and you're gonna hear me loud and
clear on this one, justin because we're all one of
the best video conferencing softwares out there. Support for this
podcast and the following message come from Zoom. Half million
businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform for a phone, chat, workspaces, events, apps,

(40:35):
and video. Zoom enables real time collaboration for teams around
the globe. Zoom how the world connects. I thought we
were gonna forget it. I was one hundred percent going
and forget it. Like I'm I put my head in
my hands because one he stole it from me. Two
I was kicking myself because I one forgot it. Yeah.
We were at the forty minute mark and I was like, oh, oh, anyway, anyway,

(40:57):
uh Jetty, I just this is this is a hard
criticism because it's hard for him to address. I just
still feel like, at on a possession to possession basis,
he does not think the game at a high enough
level right now, at the highest levels that you need,

(41:22):
you know, and in terms of spacing out off ball
on defense, in terms of you know, I praise Danny
Green's relocation skills, I'm going to criticize Jetties. You know,
there were you know, there were a lot of really
good threads during that next series of plays where Jetty
is guarded in a corner. But if all he does

(41:45):
is slide up five feet to the wing, he's a
wide open for three. You know. And like, you just
don't get to get away with not being super savvy
in the postseason. You know, there's a reason, and I'm
so biased towards all these basketball geniuses that just read
the game at a high at the highest level, and

(42:06):
I index on that much more than I index on
skill set and toolkit is because it's stuff like that,
you know, it's so hard to teach that, and I
just feel like rint large, he still has to get
better at reading the small intricacies of the game. There's
plenty to quibble with on a from a skill set, possession,

(42:28):
you know, standpoint. But I still think it's just that
macro like are you making like are you making eighty
percent of the right decision but not getting all the
way to one hundred. I still think that's Jetty's problem.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I'm glad I heard you out because my knee jerk
when you first said that about thinking the game was
to disagree, because I actually thought his decision making on
fast breaks and some of the half court sets even
was better than it was the previous year. But I
do think in terms of the points you raised about
relocation finding those passing lanes, I think think that there's

(43:00):
really something to that. Again, going back to this openness
or rating eighty seven percentile, and he's a good shooter,
right like he's a movement shooter. He's someone that you
would think would would have some gravity. But overall, you know,
eighty seven percentile and openness rating, but sixty first percentile
and catch and shoot threes right like, he's getting great

(43:23):
looks and he's hitting enough of them. But I do
think you're right, and maybe this gets back to even
what we were saying about a QUORL, which is better
off ball movement. Finding those spots on the court can
manipulate the defense. And I think Carris's activity, and it's
certainly some of it's, you know, playing on ball more
that's going to generate more attention from the defense, but

(43:45):
just think his intent, his activity overall generates more attention
from from the defense than either of these guys, even
though they shoot a decent percentage. So I think you're
right to point that out. And obviously defense is always
going to be the number one thing when you talk
about where you'd like to see improvement from Jetty. Out
of the top ten in minutes played, he had the

(44:08):
worst in defensive EPM on the team, was in the
fifty first percentile. Sometimes gets lost off ball, and I
think when you see inconsistent minutes from him, it's usually
generated from you know, extended rough play on the defensive end.
I thought he had some moments. I thought, you know,
he can dig in, he can make a defensive play.

(44:29):
He can go out and get a chase down block.
He's got some tools. It's funny looking back at the
analysis of him coming over to the NBA, it was, ah,
this is a defense first guy that might be able
to add a three, and that hasn't been how it's
shaken out. But yeah, that's obviously the biggest area of growth.
I think I'm starting to think we're not scouts justin Hey,

(44:51):
that wasn't enough, That wasn't us.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
We we aggregate scouts. Yeah, we just aggregate scouts. We
aggregated the wrong ones either way. You know, I think
that you're right the defense is there, and then we're
regarding the shooting. I just think if the Calves are
able to add a bona fide capital S shooter at

(45:16):
the wing this offseason, you'll feel the difference between like, oh,
we thought Jetty was like this accelerant to runs by
bombing away from three. We didn't even realize, like what
you could have if you get a real volume shooter
that really can hit at a high volume a high

(45:38):
percentile with the open shots that everyone else on this
team gets them. That's the way.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Even the glimpses we got of Danny Green when he
started playing at the end of the year, like he
could barely move out there, and just he was still
just knocking down and taking kind of crazy threes, and
just that kind of quick trigger presidency is something that
they haven't had.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Like Jety's the closest thing we've had to that in
a role player in the past cupt couple of years.
But like like a guy like you know, a guy
like Max Streus or someone like that, Like, I think
you'll really feel that difference if someone like that joins
the roster because and.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
I don't think he's even a capital less shooter.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
But I think I do. I don't think. I think
if you I think if you can hit forty eight
percent from any part of the three point arc, you're
a capital S shooter.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I'm not all the way there, but he's still top
of my my wish list for free agents. But I
always kind of reserve that for kind of like a JR.
Corp For you know, Danny Green.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Sure, but those are I mean, those are they're not
going to shooters in the history of the league.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, they're not. And there's no free agents that match
that kind of pedigree. So moving on Kari's slavert. I
would like to see him kind of maintain that post
deadline assertive this. I thought there were times where he
deferred a little too and it took out his rhythm.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
As a score.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
He needs touches, He needs to be active, and if
he is just playing kind of that twenty five to
twenty minute per night role that you were talking about earlier, Carter,
I think you want to maximize the ball handling he
has in those minutes. I think you want to see
if he has it on a given game and if
you're getting kind of one of those nuclear Caros knights.
I'd also like to see him get to the rim

(47:25):
a little more, because I thought he relied a little.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Bit too much on the in between game.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
And maybe some of this has to do with the
spacing with the Cavs, but I thought post deadline he
attacked the rim more than he had earlier in the season.
He improved his season long rim numbers, which the first
half of the year is awful. Is going up and
dunking on guys, which was surprising to see. I think
that he is someone especially if there is improved spacing,
which we obviously hope for next year. I think he's

(47:52):
someone that can kind of put some pressure on the rim.
He can get to the free throw line, and I
would like to see that aspect of his game grow.
But for the most part, like when you're talking about
a Karros Laverta or Jetty Osmond, these are guys later
on in their careers, you're not going to see massive changes.
So I think those are kind of things, kind of
in the margins that can make a difference without asking

(48:14):
them to be someone different than who they are.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, I just feel like you have to talk about
how bad the mid range shooting was. From three to
ten feet he was thirty seven percent. The year prior
with Indy he was They're the year prior, who's forty
four From ten to sixteen feet he was thirty percent.

(48:38):
From sixteen feet to three point to the three point
arc he was twenty four percent. I mean this, I
mean he was unbalanced. Probably I don't have the you know,
percentiles in front of me. You know, volume do efficiency
on balance. He was probably the worst mid range player

(48:58):
in the league from a shooting perspective, in terms of
as a player who actually shot shots from there consistently
on a team that was trying to win games.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, those and threes has him eleven percent dial thirty
two point three percent for mid range. Only player on
the team that was worse was Jetti at twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah. I mean, I mean, just a disaster because this
this is a team that needs that they need late,
late shot clock shot generation, and he was horrible at it.
And you know, I don't even know what to say
other than I hope it gets better, and the numbers
suggest it will get better.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I think that's I think you would be justified questioning
if the three point numbers are going to regress a
little bit, But I think it's safe to say that
the mid range is also due for regression and should improve.
You know, I think he should get credit to for
putting in a lot of work on his body, right,

(50:06):
Like he came into the season saying, I worked all
off season on trying to stay healthy and improving my
three point shot. And he stayed healthy and he improved
his three point shots. So maybe, you know, it's an
adjustment to the role or whatever the case may be,
but you just have to imagine that the mid range
is better. Carter, do you want to guess who the
best mid range shooter was on the team by percentage
last year.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
By percentage, not including volume or anything, not even factoring
volume at all, not a little bit. I'm gonna just say,
Darius Rollo, baby, oh man, I knew it was gonna
be silly. Yeah, So like I thought, you know, the
shooting obvious is obvious. I think Kris would probably tell
you that his mid range game was very bad this

(50:48):
year and just for whatever reason, the touch was just
not there, I mean, and more rim out than seems possible.
So I'm really hoping for just a straight up progression.
I even think I doubt that Karris wasn't working on
his mid range game all year. You know, like I'm
not even gonna I'm not gonna be like one of
those idiots. It's like, get in the gym work on that,

(51:08):
you know, because I know he does if you missed two. Yeah,
So you know, I just I'm just hoping for some
regression there to you know, even slightly below average would
be nice because it was just that was bad. And
then just on the defensive end, I and just again,

(51:29):
I feel like I feel very obligated to continue to
bang the gang ring rebounding drum there were so many
plays where Josh Hart or Quinton Grimes or RJ. Barrett
just snaked in behind him while he ball watched as
a shot went up and got aboard. And you know,

(51:52):
like the reality is, just like Isaac, you're not gonna
be able to play the full time three averaging four
and a half, you know, four to four and a
half rebounds for thirty six. Yeah, like you just that
you had my rebound the ball. You say, my favorite
thing in the playoffs was out rebounding teams, just like

(52:13):
the Cavs had such a devastating offense, and it was
so fun that a few times they'd mess, Tristan would
go out and get a second chance opportunities. And that's
as much as I want shooting, I do want to
kind of get back to that identity because the Cavs
defense is so good that if they're ending possessions, if
they're not giving up second chance opportunities at the rate
that they did, this is easily going to be the

(52:35):
best defense in the league, assuming that, you know, you
improve that kind of personnel. So I do think that
there is kind of internal changes, and you're you're correct
and highlighting that guys, like okorro and LeVert can have
a role in improving that without even making roster changes. Yeah.

(52:56):
I mean you look at a guy like Caleb Martin
who obviously, like I don't think you go into this
offseason or any player expecting like saying like we're gonna
get Caleb Martin or we're gonna find our Caleb Martin
who averaged nine points in the regular season and then
averages twenty in the Eastern Commerce Finals. Obviously you're not
gonna find that. But over the last two games he

(53:18):
grabbed fifteen boards and then ten boards playing on the
wing exclusively. Yep, Like the Cavs didn't have any players
who would go get them ten boards other than Sharrett
or Evan pretty much all year. Sometimes Donnie would get
up there. And that I think, more than anything, they

(53:39):
need to have a collect I hope that this offseason
is a collective come to Jesus for that roster to say, Hey,
if we're gonna have a team that's small that requires
us that we that we think we need to send
it extra help and shade strong side at the RAM

(54:00):
because we're small in the perimeter, we damn well better
help our bigs out because we didn't. We let him down,
We let Jared Allen get punked on national TV because
it was just him trying to make up ground to
help to both help cover us at the point of
attack and go carve out Mitchell Robinson when he had position.

(54:23):
Like the everyone on this roster has to come with
a gang rebounding mentality next year, because it's not like
we were leaking out to run justin like you can't
have your cake and eat it too, Like you can't
play slow and not gang rebound. And I really hope
to see them across the board take that challenge. And

(54:46):
of course I'm going to spend the Wing podcast talking
about rebound in the whole way because it was a
huge problem. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
No, I completely agree. And you look at the season
long numbers. The only players on the cass that were
above the seventy percentile and defensive rebound percentage Jared Allen ninetieth,
Evan Mobile eighty eighth, Isaiah Mobiley who qualified apparently at
seventy ninth, and then after that everyone's below the seventieth
and a lot of the teams below the fiftieth, right

(55:15):
like Dean Wade. What was the next at the sixty
ninth percentile, and obviously, you know, dealing with.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Dean's that good of a rebound.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yeah, he's not great, but like he'd help right like,
And we had talked about that going into the Knick series,
right where we're hoping that if he was healthy enough
to play, he was a guy that could be that
third big And potentially, you know, when we're talking doing
our big Man portion of the recap, talking about the
kind of whether or not allocating resources to get a

(55:45):
third big to help mitigate that issue, He's certainly going
to be something that comes up. But let's just rifle
through our grades here. Carter I went B plus for
Karis laverd be for Jetty, be minus for Coro. I
thought he finished the year strong, but you can't over
look the start of the year definitely turned around post January.
Lamar C plus and then Danny Green incomplete.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Just can't give him a grade. Uh Yeah, I think
given the way that the season went and the way
the postseason went, I did not feel comfortable giving anyone
better than a bee. Uh And my grade kind of
reflected that LeVert I gave a B and you know,
maybe for what you expect from Caroselvert. Because I always

(56:30):
graded on that curve, I thought it would be plus worthy.
I think I think if you get the Carosel Avert,
especially the one we got at the end of the season,
if you get that as your six man and we'll
talk right away about bringing him back, I'm very happy
with that. I think that's a high quality. That's all.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
That's a luxury from a team billing standpoint, assuming you
can fill the hole at small forward some other way.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I think some of the fit concerns remain there for me.
And then I just you know, I just said I
think he was perhaps the worst mid range shooter in
the league based on rolling volume. So if I believe that,
I cannot give him a B plus. But I thought
he impressed me in all the peripheral waste. I never
expected to be impressed, So you know, I think it'd

(57:16):
be is fair for him. Jetty. I also gave a
be just relative to role rotation, and he wasn't even
supposed to be in the rotation to start the year.
And then Darius got hurt and he found his way
back in. Uh carved fought his way back in and
ended up playing you know more minutes than just about
anyone off the bench in the postseason. It says some

(57:38):
up and down results, but I think it be relative
to his expected role. Well, Cora, I gave a C plus.
I don't think you can wipe out the fact that
and you know, and part of this, you know, this
is an ecosystem, right, It's not necessarily his choice to
have gotten benched for a huge stretches of postseason, but
he got benched. He wasn't able to he was not

(58:00):
able to instill the trust in JB to keep him
on the floor for big stretches of that postseason. And
then obviously he just had a disaster first stretch of
the year. So I think you have to account for
the whole year. And even though he had a really
strong middle and I'll remember that game winner fondly forever,

(58:22):
I still think it was a C plus relatives to
where I wanted to see a third year leap from
our guy. And then Danny Green also in complete, and
he barely got to play and clearly was on you know,
one and a half legs when he was out there.
From my advantage point.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
So given the fact that the Cavs do have limited resources,
they have the mid level exception, they have the bi
annual you know, some second round picks to play around with,
one that they could potentially use this year. Are you
down with bringing back Harrislavern and Danny Green? I feel
like Lavert you have to just because you can't lose
the asset, like just to begin with, and I think

(59:00):
he still makes sense obviously. I like him as the
sixth man. You down from bringing back Danny Green?

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, I'll address Lvert first. You have to or you
have to find a trade, give a sign in trade,
like you can't. You can't where the Calves are just
be like, well, we'll see you. You know, they're in
a between a rock and a hard place there. So
even if they were kind of ready to move on
and explore something else, they're not going to be able
to find an equivalent quality player without you know, burning

(59:30):
their mid level exception spot. So I think if I'm
the Cavs front office, I'm trying to bring LeVert back
and I'm just trying to get him down to that
twenty five minutes twenty to twenty five minutes in the postseason,
so on the nights he doesn't have it. You aren't
like well, we just got to play him, yeah and
figure it out because that's where they were. He was

(59:52):
just so important for this team. It was their fifth
best player I think on balance over the regular season.
So yes, I would bring him back. I probably would.
It depends what other options are available for Vetman. But yeah,
but you know, with Vatman's like, I think it's so
it's kind of fungible and so far as if he's

(01:00:13):
back and you're in camp and he's still running really
poorly and you're like, maybe we move on, you know,
but I think like the thesis of bringing in a
championship level that that might still have enough juice. I
get that, and I would be certainly down to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, so talked about it earlier. Unlikely to get an
S tear shooter, will disagree a little bit about Max Terrus.
But you're comfortable with with an A tier shooter, Okay, okay,
we're unlikely to get a true to a wing. Like,
just looking at the options, I don't think that that's

(01:00:54):
something that you can really guarantee in terms of like
high volume shooter that also plays defense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Can I challenge that real quick? Okay, yeah, go ahead.
I just feel like we have, we have warped three
and D to this idea that you have to be
like an hier shooter and an hier defender to like
earn that label, or you're not a true two way Okay,
Like like I would say, guys like Max Struce, guys

(01:01:22):
like Grant Williams are two way enough. That's fair. Like
you know, like how I mean how many players qualify
for it? Like true three and d if our standards
are this high, it's like five and most of them
are superstars. So like I just feel like I'm pushing
back on the idea that you can't get a two
way wing Max truth I back.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I will push back on Max being a two way
even though I've said I I really like him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
He's not a good defenders, really really not a good defender. Here,
here's what I will say. I think what two way
means is you are not so bad on they're into
the floor that you cannot be played in a postseason series. Yeah,
that is what two way means to me. And to
that end, I think the Caps are very capable of
adding a two way way. Do you want to guess

(01:02:12):
what percentile Max Strius is defensively peripium. I can. I
don't need to because I can watch him play playoff
minutes for a team that's going to the finals, so
I know that he can stay on the floor.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
It's sixth. By the way, I don't care. I just
don't care. Okay, So what is your biggest priority? So
let's go from there to let's say you're not able
to land a high volume shooter, or would you be
okay with someone that maybe takes five the game, Like
let's say Josh Richardson, who I think there's some overlap

(01:02:46):
with Keris, Like I think they both make a similar,
similar quality brisket, but they get there in different ways.
Like are you okay with a guy like Josh Richardson
that brings some playmaking and brings some defense? And like
IVE three is a game.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I think m watching that playoff series. The Cabs needed
first shooting, a second rebounding, and third more dudes they
could try that they could that they knew were playoff
quality players that they knew were playoff quality players. So

(01:03:27):
if that first option fails and you're in, you're in.
You're in a rock and a hard place, and it's like, okay,
Struce doesn't want to come here, and you know, uh,
you know, like, I think you just look to add
good players from there. You know, if you can't find
the archetype you're looking for, you can't just be like,
well we tried, let's run it back. Uh. So I

(01:03:49):
think you just try to add more good players your
roster and then explore adding those skill sets through other avenues,
whether it's trades, whether it's draft, whether it's taken a
shot on a few minimum or bi annual guys that
you know, like guys like I'm not saying that they
should sign this guy because I know you're gonna you're
gonna hold your nose when I say it. But guys

(01:04:10):
like Malik Beasley, whose value have really dropped over the
course of this postseason, I won't hold my nose at that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I thought you might say, Dylan Brooks, which even even
as a Canadian, I've got some limits here, man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Uh. You know, but you you take cracks at guys
who have that skill set or have demonstrated in the past,
even if maybe they have recent things that have affected
their stock that make them not mid level. Except for players.
Because I think this, I think two months ago we
would have said Malik Beasley is going to be mid level,
exception worthy free agent, and then he his time with

(01:04:47):
the Lakers went very very very very poorly in a
high leverage situation, pit hit the broad side of a
barn uh and you know all his other weaknesses are
exacerbated as a result of that. So, like, I think
that's where you start. That would be a skill set
up for sure. So if so, if you're if your
plan A fails, which is, you know, use your biggest chip,
your mid level to go acquire some shooting, then you

(01:05:08):
have to go start trying to chase it on the margins.
And it's a good team. Good teams have ABCD plans.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
That's fair. That's that's fair. I think we're on the
same page there. It's funny how much of a prisoner
or the moment I am like three months ago, I
remember sitting here on this podcast being like, man, we
just I'd love a Dylan Brooks, you know, like just
you know, an agitator. I know he's not a great
three point shooter, but just gets under people. Skinny is
such a good defender. And now looking at the playoff run,

(01:05:37):
I'm like, no, no, I can't I can't do that.
I would one hundred person talking myself in the Dylan
Brooks Who am I kidding? But but I also I
just I don't want to have to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I don't want to. I would still talk myself onto
him with relatives, maybe maybe an off season of Humble Pie.
It gets you, gets you where you need to go.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah, I'm I'm self aware enough to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Not remember these are humans, guys. These are humans and
to change and grow and learn and some some don't,
but some do. Uh and uh and you know, uh,
I mean talk about the Memphis Grizzlies. They built an
entire era of their team on a player that everyone

(01:06:17):
had just decided was a selfish loser in Zach Randolph.
So you know, just don't forget that that humans change
and are different and uh and so even if the
player that even if the Cabs ended up signing a
player you don't really care for, Hi, Carter Rodriguez with
lowry market and last year. Uh, those guys can are

(01:06:39):
the masters of their own fate a lot of the time.
So whatever direction they go, you know, I think, like
we joke about being able to talk to ourselves as anything,
but I will try because I want these guys to succeed,
and even if I don't necessarily love whoever whatever they
end up doing, you know, I think I'm gonna look
to find, you know, every out, not just the ones

(01:07:01):
that match my very limited perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Yeah, and if you want to listen to people that
don't learn from their mistakes and don't improve, you can
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(01:07:26):
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Make sure you guys are staying safe out there. Until
next time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Joe gets six