Philly Special with Jackson Frank

Jackson Frank of Dime Uproxx and Liberty Ballers joins Justin and Carter to discuss what Georges Niang can bring to the Cavs, his assessment of Cleveland's offseason, as well as discuss what to make of the Philadelphia 76ers next season. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what Carlos slammed it?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh Carlo left wing free ball perfect, darg.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hell block the shot at the rim, pow with the
left hand and of fowl.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome to Chase Doown Podcast, part of the kas Media family.
I'm your host, Justin Rohan. The Chase Doown is presented
by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels of live
sports and TV. We're off the cost of cable. There's
no contract and no commitment. Try for free at foobotv
dot com. The offseason keeps rolling on. We got more
team previews for you, and I'm very excited for our
guest today. But before we get to that, I got
introduced by co host Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, buddy.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm doing well, man. We podcasted yesterday. I'm not in
in season form. I gotta get I gotta get up there,
you know, I gotta get the energy where it needs
to be. Thank god we have a guest because I
can just kind of bail.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
I can tell you're winded, man, like you, You've got
to you gotta start firing off some takes. When you
go take the dog for a walk, or whatever, like
just get that cardio up. Get here takes.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Me like running with ankle weight. So I'll just be
I'll just be firing off takes to the neighbors.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, the good news is we got one of our
favorite guests back on the podcast, ready to carry the load,
ready to help us through this podcast from dime on
op Rocks as well as Liberty Bawlers. It's Jackson. Frank Jackson,
how you doing, buddy.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
I'm doing well. I'm I'm glad that I'm on the
second hand of the first back to back of the year.
It sounds like two of you are kind of getting
your wits about you. You know. It's the You're in
Indiana on a cold October night and you're not ready
for that second back to back. So I'm happy to
carry a load for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, every time the Cows play the Sixers, it's usually
some sort of schedule loss or weird thing like that.
So this is a little bit fitting to have you
on for it.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
I was searching your name just to see you know,
with Cleveland Cavaliers, just to see you know when last
time we had you on the podcast was and one
of the first links that came up was IMDb. Apparently
there's an IMDb thread for every time we post a
podcast and chase down with Jackson, Yeah, it's on IMDb.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, you making this up. I'm not.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
And that was one of the first things that came up,
so that that kind of excited me. Our names aren't
one there, but yours is.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Jackson.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
I didn't know I was on IMDb, but now I
am one of the compeg Well.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
I just wanted to brighten your day. You know, it's Tuesday,
We're still in the off season. We're waiting for NBA action.
What is this that there is the potential for moves
in the NBA but there is really any actual news
outside of what's going on in the World Cup. As
Carter continues to scan IMDb for the.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Next quarter, why what is this happening? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
I don't know, but it's not great audio for our audio.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Only something special. I'll tell you what. There you go.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
But Jackson, I want to start things off by talking
about the Caves, which we do often on this podcast.
I want to know what you made of the cas
off season, because I know you've been high on this core.
When we've had you on in the past, you know
you've sung the praises of Darius Garland, Evan Mobley and
what they got going on. But I really want to
get kind of what your read is on the moves

(03:10):
that casts made this summer.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, I think you know, everyone who watched the playoff
that playoffs years against Nicks, even casually could tell that
they needed more shooting, I think, particularly in the front
court on the wings, and because of that lack of shooting,
it made life really hard for their their core four.
And that's not to say that the only reason is
you know, Garland or Mitchill or Mobile are allant have
their struggles against the nicktro because of that shooting, but

(03:33):
it certainly exacerbated them. So you know, on the first
day Afraidency here, the first couple of days, they clearly
tried to address those those issues and signed a couple
of really good shooters. You know, obviously Maxtrusi's numbers ebbed
and flowed, but he's a guy, He's with a lot
of versatility, a lot of volume. And then the Yang's
a guy who's basically been forty forty percent all four

(03:56):
or five years throughout his career in the NBA, and
I always has a big high three point right, even
though it was more of a bench guy. So I
think that'll help a lot. And I know the goal
would be between the added spacing there and some more
development from the core of four, particularly Evan Mobley, maybe
Darius Brown as the focus of the development there, you
can you can get over that hump and you can

(04:17):
become a team that is, you know, making second, third
round and beyond. I think there's there's kind of a
it's the classic ones expectation to happen. You kind of
get restless, right like the Cavs two years ago at
this point, you know, we're we're in the play on,
we're really fun team, and then they made the big
move for Donoald Mitchell. I think everyone kind of expected
them to be really good, and because of how good

(04:39):
they were in the regular season, how good some of
their advanced metrics were. You get restless after after a
pretty ugly playoffs doing, but it takes time. It's really
hard to win the playoffs though. I think they've made
some good moves, but it's still going to come down
to how good can you know Evan Mobley get offensively,
how good can Darius Garland be, Like what kind of
scoring vong can he handle? I think that was kind

(05:00):
of the biggest thing in that first round series. I
don't think his numbers were bad, but he wasn't able
to do and produce as many opportunities as the Cavs needed,
And that's kind of the big thing there. And obviously,
you know Jared Allen struggles and kind of Jonathan Mitchell's
shot making struggles a conjunction at this point of attack
defense that that regressed. So I like the off season
a lot, But I do think it's it's going to

(05:20):
come down to that core force Phil. But the hope,
like I said, is that those those two big offices
editions plus Ty Jerome can make life easier for the
core group there.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
I saw a friend of the podcast, Mac Perry, posted
today every single Maxter's made three from last season and
it was over forty one minutes, and that just made
me so happy. I'm like, volume three point shooting, That's
what we've needed for a while. Like that, that's a
lot of fun. Yeah, I think it's going to come
down to how good the core plays. But I just

(05:53):
feel like they're in a better position to, you know,
kind of explore the space, right like you, Mobley's playmaking
is going to be better with more space, Garland being
able to get where he wants to on the court
and make others better, that's going to be easier. And
obviously one part of that offseason is the addition of
George Niang, who came over from the Sixers after spending

(06:14):
the last two years there. I want to know what
you think kas fans should expect from Niang. How do
you kind of envision his role with the team or
what do you think the best possible use of his
talents would be with this roster.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
I think he's a really good seventh or eighth man.
You know, the you know, the Sixers and the Jazz
have had their own struggs last couple of years, but
last three years in the playoffs, but Niang's been a
part of some really good teams in both those organizations.
You know, as much as you can criticize and can
should criticize the Jazz and six Ers for their failures
making the second round, is it tough thing to do?

(06:51):
Only eight teams in every year, So for Niang to
be a key part of both of those teams. Are
both those those groups or appearances is testing to him.
He's a guy that I think certain matchups can close.
He definitely did that at times for the Sixers. He
think he was I think he was really important to
when they did have success offensively in the second round
against Celtics this past year. He was usually kind of

(07:12):
the hardest of those lineup, just his ability to shoot
quick trigger threes. I added a little more on the
move stuff this past year then get a little bit quicker.
We're not looking at a guy who's gonna be the
Duncan Robinson type necessarily flying around screens, but I can
do a little bit of that stuff. I thought he
improved putting the ball in the deck this past year,
somewhat got a little quicker. The rebounding, I do think

(07:33):
is a big issue. Obviously, the Cavs had their issues
on that that fast and the Sixers have their own
issues and so means isn't a very explosive guys not
much of a traditional athlete of course, so that hurts.
But I thought he also improved some of those off
the bounce game. One thing I'm really looking forward to
with came Anne Strews. Is kind of how the coaching
staff leverages they're shooting with guys like Mitchell and Garland

(07:56):
because there wasn't a lot of front court shooting last year,
and so if you're not really able to which those actions,
because you know, a guy like Screars can maybe flow
into a pick and roller. Niyang kind of likes you
do this weird post up into a hook shot that
doesn't always look pretty but kind of went down at
a semi regular rate last year. That helps a lot.
I think part of the issue, you know, with trying
to involve Garland Mitch a lot of actions. You can

(08:17):
just switch that right and put more length on them.
But if you have a bigger guy who could be
a front court shooter and kind of involve them together
in actions, it makes it tougher for defenses. So I like,
I like Nyang a lot of the seventh eighth guy,
who I think will close certain games. If you know,
let's say, maybe you don't want to have both you know,
Mobile and Allen out there you know for you at
the same time, just because space and issues or one

(08:37):
of them is you know, resting or in foul trouble
things like that, you can put the kneang at the
floor pretty comfortably, and you know, I think you have
and I think at the same time I see some
parallel and not in the same way at all necessarily
that's how I phrases out contracts. I see some parallels
in the way that when marketing came over Tears, they

(09:00):
tried to use the three. And obviously he turned out
be a pretty dang good wooden defender, but the idea
initially was Okay, let's have mobile now and kind of
cover or I'm closed down the space he has to
you know, addressed. I think that's totally similar to the
aang at time to play the three, and maybe not
great the three, but because you have two backline and
forcers that it doesn't have to have as much responsibility

(09:20):
on the games played. So that could be kind of
the goal there. And I really am curious to kind
of see what the tradeoff is defensively, because for all
of maybe some of the weird decisions the Calves made
and Jared Allen made with his help positioning and stuff,
the Calves still ended up with the best defensive raid
in the playoffs. No, it's kind of a weird thing

(09:41):
to talk about, But the defense was not the issue
at all. It was the fact they couldn't drop a
ball in the ocean from a boat and so.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
With and for those that don't know how those metrics work,
that accounts for defensive rebounding. So like, even though they
got descimined on the boards, they still had the best defense.
So I do you think that, like even accounting for that, like,
they were still amazing.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
On that end.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
So I'm fascinated to kind of see if you're playing
a Coorro in less less time because you because you
worry about the lack of the fact that he gets
ignored even though he is a very good, you know,
point of the attact defender and has improved you know,
his numbers as a shooter. What's kind of trade off
there with a Kniyang maybe the three or it Struce
are much lesser defenders, especially at the point of attack

(10:25):
where the Cavs don't have much, you know, beyond a Corro,
especially now Lamar Stevens has gone kind of what the
trade off is there? I think it's a worthwhile trade out.
I think both of those guys are better players at
this stage of their career than a Korro. But I
am kind of I am curious to what degree, like
can you just bank on allan and mobile covering enough?
Maybe if like, can you just be content to have

(10:47):
guys like Tatum or Trey or Brunts and Crushy from
mid range but they're not getting anything at the rim
and that's enough for your offense, your defense team to
survive with a much better offense around around them. So
that's kind of what I'm curious. But I do think
the Cavs that a really good options And I think
Meang is a guy that got a lot of flack
from fixers people even some riders at times because because

(11:09):
of his some his liability as a defender in space
and rebounding issues and whatnot. But just was a guy
who I thought always made things a lot easier on
the abrogate for key players like a Hard and an
MB and a Macfie, And so I think he's gonna
do the same thing for the Calves. And I just
think he's a really constant role player, but also a
guy that I think gives you an edge, you know,

(11:29):
loves the trash tag, doesn't back down from stuff. I
think I'm not saying that's something the cabss are lacked,
but I don't think it's anything you don't ever want you.
I don't think you never really nice young men, Jackson,
and I think the a the guy that gives you
a bit of an edge and has that playoff experience,
even if he's not gone super deep, he's played in
a lot of playoffs series at this point in his
career already, So I really like that signing. It's a

(11:50):
guy that I think the Sixers are going to miss
a lot, and the Calves will benefit a lot from
having around and being on even the rotation.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Something I'm interested to hear because you know, obviously we
have a year to tox Sixers, but like you are
really an astute observer of the league, and you know,
you've written some of some of my favorite pieces about
the Calves over the last couple of years, and you know,
so much that I find interesting about the Donovan Mitchell
experience was, you know, in Utah, they started out playing

(12:17):
two bigs and they kind of just kept down shifting, down, shifting,
down shifting to the point where you know, they became
this regular season juggernaut that in the postseason kind of
they just said, Rudy solve everything, and like to some extent,
like with the addition of Yang, with the addition of Strus,
the Calves are kind of doing the same, except they're
saying Jarrett and Evan, please solve everything, Like.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Do you think that? Like that?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Just the fact that the Calves have that generational defender
at the four in mobile next to Allen kind of
like how much do you think they can payper over
do you think that or do you think they'll kind
of run into the same problems in miniature that the
Jazz ran into defensively in the postseason.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
This beer is really big for engaging the long term
viability of the Mobile Allen connection. I think there's a
lot of people who understandably, you know, talk about moving
Allen and kind of see where it opens up for
Mobili and giving him more space. But yeah, as you mentioned,
it does put a lot of bonus on Mobile. I
think the benefit that Mobiley has over Gobert is even

(13:23):
already there's a lot more to his game offensively. I
don't know necessarily if he's like a more impactful player
than Gobert was at his peak offensively, yet because of
the screening and how good of a finisher MOBILEI was.
But you see more flashes of the scoring from the elbow,
the driving. You saw a lot of it. I think
one of the things that people kind of ignore last

(13:43):
year because of how much struggled in the postseason was
how much Barry got as a regular season offensive player.
You know, we got much better as a finisher. I
think he improved his screening a little bit, more self creation,
and the numbers all bear that out. And so that
that's kind of the thing for me, is when teams
want small against the Jazz to kind of go offense

(14:03):
first all the time, Gobert couldn't counter that because he
doesn't have the back of the basket. He doesn't have
the face up game, whereas Mobili maybe does. Right, maybe
he can playing sixt eight guy at that center and
go and go five out. I'll just crush it on
the inside, like all around pick and rolls with Donovan
and Darius and all that. We'll have the space around
them and really punish you for that. So that's that's

(14:25):
where I'm curious, and that's the route that that that
Cleveland takes. But I really am I really do think
this is a huge year because Garrett's a great player,
and it's nothing against him, He's just not the long
term prospect of Mobile and and probably won't have the
same peak obviously as an ulstar, you know, appearance and
under spell on like Mobili. But I really am curious
to kind of see what they can do with this

(14:47):
core because you know, as I was mentioning earlier, like
what what is that trade off of having a core
maybe play less and giving more Minister Scroos and me Yang?
So uh yeah, do you see the parallels for sure?

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:59):
To me, kind of like like if you're starting Max
Struce and you're saying, like, on our you know, we
kind of think this is going to be our best lineup.
Like obviously Strews might not finish every single night, maybe
some maybe we're in a postseason series and Okoro is finishing.
We don't know, but you know, I think in some
way this is kind of the stress test of like

(15:20):
how hard can we push this that big man pairing
on defense? Like how like cold can we still be
a top five defense in the league with these two
bigs that are elite defenders at their positions, even if
we're running Darius Garland, Donovan, Mitchell and Max Struce for
heavy minutes alongside them, And I'm going to be real

(15:43):
interested in that lineup data as it pours in over
the course of the year because like, you know, like
that's one if you did have a criticism for this
Cavs team right now, I would say that I don't
really know what they're like, no doubt killer five lineup
is still like we didn't leave the post the off
season with that answer, like maybe it's trus but like

(16:06):
you know that that's quite a dearth of perimeter defense
out there. So I'm super interested to kind of see
how far that that pairing can take them on the
defensive end.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
And I think too, the question here is like is
what and this isn't to put all the pressure by
any means on Donavan, but also like what what defender
in version of him? Do we Do we get the
one that we thought for to really open last year,
when I thought he was pretty dang good and fallowd overall,
or do we get the one that we saw in
the postseason the last couple of years where he's getting

(16:37):
you know, he's get his buck cased by Jalen Brunson
can't really offer any sort of resistance at the point
of attack. And and then also too, like what does
playing with such size behind Max Strews to him? Right
like ban Adebayo is a great defender, but there's no
mistaking effect. They never really had a four in Miami,
right that rangey four to kind of you know, close
down more space.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
So I think about Strew has played about thirty percent
of his minutes at the four, So yeah, kind.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Of the point either rotating through Kevin Love or Hayward
Hyatmith or to mean, but they are all guys that
like aren't really known for, you know, playing the four
being really effective defenders before in the stage of their career.
In the case of of uh, you know, Kevin Love
and I guess, hey, what has been This is a
pretty good defender, but he's more of a two slash
three I think than a four ideally, So that's where
I'm kind of curious as well. But yeah, I by

(17:26):
no reason I wanted to say this is a make
or break year for the Cavs, but I do think
it will be a really informative year for them because
it is hard for me. So it's a make or
break year when you have this much talent that's still
you know, under contract and uh and it is fairly
young re entering their prime. But I think it is
a really informive year for what the vision of what
the Calves tried to build around and really you know,

(17:48):
get back to the mountaintop, you know, or close to
the mountaintop.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Being in the NBA playoffs, Yeah, I just feel like
they have more options to go to, right Like, I
think that was one of the biggest issues in the
playoffs was they just didn't have lineup versatility like the
Core four with a coral that worked really well with
Karris la Vernon there. That was their best lineup from
a net rating perspective throughout the year, but they didn't
have a lot of other looks you can go to.
And I think having someone like George Niang that you

(18:13):
can play at the four, I think that's going to
be interesting because you look at it, even from an
offensive rating standpoint, Mobile and Allen together that was the
best offensive rating out of all the kind of versions
or combinations that you can play, Like when it was
just MOBILEI the offensive rating was worse than one of
the two of them were together. Same goes for when
Allen was on his own, and I think some of

(18:34):
that was we just didn't have a lot of options
to go to when you kind of shift down to
those smaller lineups. So do they end up pairing Niang
with a coor so that you have better point of
attack defense when you might not have as much back
line help with Niang there? Right, Like, there's so many
questions like that that I'm really interested to see kind

(18:54):
of how they're deployed. But with Niang in particular, do
you think kind of the best use of him is
to have him as like the third big that stretch
for just kind of playing more small ball, or do
you envision using him more kind of as the lowry
market and large small forward. Even even though he's not
a seven footer uh more traditional height, he doesn't necessarily

(19:19):
move like a six to seven wing.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, he certainly lacks the size and fluidity of Lowry
and you know, also much much lesser gifted as a
wind defender. But the idea that not that you guys
are confuted, but if any anyone's trying to like stand parally,
just the idea that, like, you know that you have
a back you have to backline and forcer to kind
of cover up with mistake mistakes that you know either
one would make. Was kind of where I was from
the similarities, but they end there. But I see him

(19:44):
mostly as a four. But I, like I said, I
do see world where you can play the three. You know,
where he can run some of those slide screen actions
for a Garland, I'm sure to let them get downhill
or or just or even you know, maybe they're running
stagger actions with with a mobile or now and rolling
or both memorial and things like that. So uh yeah,
I think he's best as a four, and i'd imagine,

(20:06):
you know, the numbers reflect that as well. I know
clean you've lost is a good job of tracking, like
your net rating or team's netwriting, depending on the position
you play. Haven't looked at him, but just having watched
basically every game Yang played for the Sixers, I think
they're generally better with him with the four. I don't
know how often they played him with the three, but
they're also kind of had that weird wing group lashed
with Tobias, Tucker, and Nyang who were all kind of fours,

(20:27):
but somebody had the mass greatest three, so it was
a weird, weird group on their own, right, But yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
We're used to that. Between and Wade Lamar Stevens, there's
a lot of fours.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Three sixers, and Cavs are using a bunch of fours
as three as they're kind of part I guess it's
part of the creative the franchise these days for them.
But yeah, he's best as a four. But I do
think the prowess of Mobley and Allen and the playmaking
talent and shot making talent of Garland and Mitchell gives
you a little more leeway than then. Maybe we saw

(21:00):
in Philly that it's also never much like Mamma never
really had that that roaming for alongside embiid right. I think,
you know, they kind of did, I guess, if you
want to say, Simmons offered that size for a few
years but in a different type of position, but the
last the last couple of years at least, they haven't
had that roaming force seeing's been there. So I am
really excited to kind of see what Niean can do
in a different context. He's just kind of playing a

(21:23):
similar role to what he's done most of his career.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Something we've you know we talked about with this Cavs
offseason is that even though they addressed their biggest weakness,
which in you know, our opinion was three point shooting,
they really didn't address the rebounding. And you know, you
go look at Niang, who's probably going to play a
lot of mints at the four for them, the rebounding
numbers are not good. You know, I think some hopeful

(21:45):
among us have have pointed out that he's played almost
his entire career next to Rudy Gobert and Joel Embiid
and it's kind of hard to get. You know, those
guys eat a lot of boards. You know, what should
Cash fans expect from him?

Speaker 4 (21:59):
There?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Is he do your job kind of guy you'll box out,
But he's got he's kind of famously got that body
type where you know he should be a good box
out guy. But like, is he or is he? Is
this going to be a thing where the Calves already were,
you know, they finished after the All Star breaking obviously
in the playoffs, Dad last in defensive rebound rate. Is

(22:21):
it going to be more of the same in the
minute kneeings on.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
The floor, I think you're looking at more of the dam.
I mean, he's he's a six seven to four who
can't jump very well. I mean, it's just I think
that was the biggest gripe to a lot of stickers folks,
for the Riders, fans, analysts, and I think it's a
it's a totally justified gripe for sure, criticismever you want
to frame it. But uh, yeah, but as we mentioned before,

(22:44):
even for all the offensive rebounds the Calves handed the
Sure Robinson last, they still didn't really have true issues
on the defensive side of the floor. So the help
would be even if those persist that they're not sinking
the ship and you're kind of the offense is working
a lot better. So yeah, I wouldn't expect me Yang

(23:04):
to quell any rebounding issues, but I do think it
can help a lot in the ways that we've already discussed.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, and I think you can get the help in
other areas, right like if Alan and Mobile get a
little bit stronger, get a little bit better on the glass.
Not like they're not good rebounders. Mitchell is a pretty
good rebounder for his size as well, you know, just
kind of chip in team effort. And I still kind
of get a little bit of a feeling that we're
in a position where we've been the last couple of years,

(23:30):
which is, Cavs need Dean Wade to play well, because
when Wade is out there, all of a sudden, you know,
all the rebounding numbers are great, like he's just this
net rating god for them, And you don't want to
be in a position where you're like, Okay, the Cavs,
you know, they got all these guys, but you need
Dean Wade to be healthy. But I still kind of
feel like the backup for just the lack of options,

(23:53):
there is something that I have my eye on. Obviously,
you can't fill every single one of your holes in
an offseason, especially when you don't have a lot of
resources to work with. But whether it's you know, Dean
Wade as that third string power forward or maybe having
a look of Isaiah Mobiley playing a little bit at
the four as well, maybe they're able to smooth that

(24:15):
over and get the support they need. But hopefully the
support they get from those guys is as good as
the support we get from Zoom support for this podcast,
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Speaker 1 (24:30):
Zoom enables real.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Time collaboration for teams around the globe. Zoom how the
world connects? All right, Jackson, we got to talk about
the Sixers. Things are a little bit weird for you guys,
and I'm going to start with a really general question,
can this season be salvaged?

Speaker 4 (24:47):
I have a tough time seeing that. I think, uh
just for all of hard alt on the playoffs, the
struggles there make the Sixers pretty dang good. He made
life for MB a lot of easier, offensively, made life
user for Tyrese Maxey. Uh it just, I mean, he's

(25:08):
just a really good player on the court, and he
was a borderline All Star, borderland All NBA candidate. I
think to intent, uh just, you know, one of the
ten best you know pastors in the NBA probably conservatively there,
but I think so, I think that loss is pretty tough.
I think that the loss is tough. I guess I
don't know, like I don't think theaning was like one
of the three or four best players, but the way
he opened up lineups in a way that PJ. Tucker

(25:30):
didn't and That's why I say he didn't offer good things.
Just he's not a guy that team tended to guard
a lot in that corner where's kneeing, you had to
shoot above the break and things like that. And then
you look at, you know, the loss of the Jalen McDaniels,
who gave you some kind of much needed athleticism in
range at the three and four, and you lose a
guy like Jake Milton who could offer you some some
ball handling depth, and they replaced him with Patrick Beverley.

(25:52):
But Patrick bed really is a different type of reserve
guard than Shake Milton in a lot of ways. So
I just I think the really good last year. They
had a chance to make a deep run and obviously fell. Sure,
I just had a tough time seeing them be anywhere
close to the statute they were last year with hardened
out of the full, with Kneeing providing them with Kneeing's

(26:13):
apsence not providing much less flexibility and lineups. I think
there's a lot of pressure on, you know, Tyrius Maxie developed,
there's a lot of pressure on to can Nick Nurse
really provides you a huge step up from Doc Rivers,
who I thought honestly was pretty dang good last year. People.
You know, he has his faults, and I was never
wanted to necessarily, you know, shy away from critiquing some
of my you know, my my fault, my frustrating with

(26:35):
the way he he did things. But I thought he
was really good last year. But I think he pushed
a lot of good buttons. Uh, And so I am
schedule that Nurves provide some major boost that closes the
gap from Harden's absence, King being gone, left ball handling
in depth, and Peter Tucker a year older, things like that.
So I do think maybe the the argument could be Okay,

(26:56):
Like Tobias Harris has always been a guy who's better
when he has more room to kind of operate and
more chance to touch the ball. I don't know if
that nestsarily worked, but that could be an argument in
their favor. I'm skeptical, but yeah, I think you know,
this team once hard and get back from injury. I
think in early December played it like a fifty eight
to fifty nine one pace, and I think they won

(27:17):
fifty four to fifty five on the year. I think
they would probably be lucky to get fifty this year
and fifty is hard, Like it's just I don't want
to say, like, I don't want to downplay that, but
when you're trying to win a tie and you've got
a top five seven player whatever you called Joel Embiid,
you're looking for more than just being a fifty one
team as you're stealing for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Uh you know in terms of you know, you listed
all the reasons why things are not looking so good
for Philly if if they were to salvage their season
and they were to have a really strong year, Like,
is there a road that doesn't involve Tyrese Maxi becoming

(27:56):
a full blown star level guard.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, I struggle to see one at all. I think
like somehow the only way is like they there's some
weird way world where at Harden has a turn of
heart because it maybe he doesn't make guys a little
thicker in terms of his his convictions and whatnot. The
athoonic criticism, it just seems to kind of be the
reality of the last few years. I'm not saying it's
gonna happened, but like, if we're looking at a world

(28:20):
where some of the Sixers are really good, that's gotta
be one of the light possibilities, I suppose, But yeah,
I think there's there's a lot of I don't want
to use the word pressure, but yes, there's a lot
of eggs in the basket of tyres MAXI helping keep
the sixers. I guess you can say title window. It
feels hard to call anything in title window when you

(28:41):
haven't made it out of the second round, like you're
just not close to it, Like you're just not that
close to the title contention, I think. But yeah, I think
if they're going to be anywhere, because they were last year,
and again, I do think despite that Game seven flame out,
that was a really good team last year to push
a really good Celtics team to seven, that pushed Heat
team that was really really good in the playoffs and

(29:03):
was a year removed from its own Eastern Conference appearance
finals appearance is a testament all three of those teams,
of course, So yeah, I think it's got to be
can MAXI become more of that legit primary initiator Kype
of guy right, I think he's really really good playing
off of Harden with his blend of speed and shooting,
but the playmaking hasn't been there. He's not super comfortable

(29:25):
kind of probing in that mid range. I think one
of the things that I've learned the last couple of
years watching the playoffs so in depth, is how important
that mid range area is. You don't have to necessarly
be a killer there, but you have to be super
comfortable operating from there. I think you look at a
guy like Jamal Murray, a guy like Jalen Brunson, obviously,
Chris Paul for the Lover of those years, Devin Booker,
these sorts of guys are really comfortable operating there. That's

(29:47):
something that Tyres Maxley hasn't nestly developed yet, and so
I think that would be the big key for him.
So I don't really see his growth from above average
starter to someone in the All Star conversation. I think
that's kind of where you're trying to go, and that
where you would like him to go, and that's how
you would be able to maybe mitigate the loss of
Harden in the Yang and Milton and whatnot, and having PJ.

(30:10):
Tucker your older and b two year older things like that.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, it's hard to go from you know, banging your
head against a second round ceiling to saying, Okay, you
know a little bit of internal growth as we lose
James Harden.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
If they do, in fact lose James Harden.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
That's going to get us over the hump, right Like,
But I am curious with Max because he he is
someone that I really do like. I like him as
a player, but I've always seen him him. Yeah, he
plays great against the Cavs, but I've always kind of
seen him more in like the ant Simon's call him
sexton off guard role, right Like, I don't know if

(30:48):
he necessarily has the playmaking chops to you know, be
that league guard. Do you think that that's something that
he can add to his game, that that he has
that type of upside when it comes to playmaking or
is his best role maybe you know, continuing to play
off guard, secondary playmaking and running more of the offense
through like Joel Embiid as a central hob.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, I think his.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Current best role is certainly that offball scored kind of
a wonder kin as a secondary scorer. I mean, his
his efficiency the last couple of years has been pretty ridiculous.
I think, like I think Poe Fince Harden arrived, He's
averaging something like twenty two on sixty one sixty percent
crew shooting, with pretty good playoff numbers as well. But

(31:32):
you did start to see some pretty noticeable growth as
a playmaker and decision maker before Harden arrived. Obviously, because
he was their their primary point guard, him and Seth
Curry handled a ton of ball handling duties, which is
a pretty strange we're going to say looking back now,
Seth Curry is nice player, but him and second year
Tyris Max is your best ball handlers. Is probably not
a great place to be as a team. But you

(31:55):
did see some some good stuff. I think there were
a lot of people that tended to praise the turnover
ratio is first couple of years, but I think that
kind of belied how good he was as a playmaker.
I think it kind of underscored his risk aversion. But
you've seen him at times get better about trying to
try some more stuff things like that. So I'm excited

(32:16):
to watch him this year. I think he's really good,
Like because we can let's just assume that Hardens you
is gone, he said to himself, So I don't think
it's even assumption, But I'm excited to watch him play
that starting point guard role, assuming they don't get some
really really good starting point card, you know, in place
of Harden, which doesn't seem likely. I want to see
continue to grow. I want to seem to get more
comfortable probe in that mid range area, keeping mister bowl alive,

(32:38):
you know, mid pressure, stunt at the nail, things like that.
So I think it's it's kind of the his optimal role,
like you said, justin like is right now that off
ball guy, but I can see a world where he's like,
he's not a superstar initiator, but the blend of his
ability to work on and off the ball very comfortably
does put him in that star status. On top of this,

(32:59):
continue defensive growth. I think he definitely got issues defensively
and isn't necessarily a positive, but I think he's a
fine guard defender. I think he's definitely gotten better in
certain respects. But you know, it's not super long. He's
not super tall, of course, so always can be limited
in certain ways. But yeah, I'm really encouraged by him,
and I think this could be a big year for him,

(33:22):
for better or for worse. Maybe just maybe he just
not turns out, doesn't turn out to be a guy
who you want handling the ball at time. But his
shooting off the rouble does steem pretty great, especially from deep,
so that can kind of mitigate a lot of maybe
mid range just comfort their just cordance and playmaking limitations.
But I do think if he does handle that starting
point guard role, you'll see a lot of growth as

(33:43):
a playmaker, even if he's not like the level of
even a guy like Donovan Mitchfields, a playmaker who is
below a Garland or a Tray or a Harden, but
is still very good in his own right. But I
think you could, let's say he could be like a
B minus B type of playmaker amongst starting point guards.
That would be pretty good thing, be a step up
from the ste minus plus range and probably have him
in now.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
So you I think it's probably time to rip ye
old band aid off because you know, you you mentioned
a hardened return and kind of what it looks like,
and you know this isn't like the other hardened exits
where his value was very high around the league, even
even when he uh was traded to Philly. You know,

(34:27):
Ben Simmons was considered, you know, a worthwhile piece and
and Philly sent value to go get him. It kind
of feels like the lead the entire league has kind
of collectively decided, like, are we sure we want to
be in the James Harden business, given you know, all
the baggage that comes with it, and like not that
much success in the in the biggest moments, especially as

(34:49):
he's you know, entering the twilight period of his career,
what's the best case for a return here? Like, you know,
like Morey held his card with Ben Simmons, He and
and he laughed his way to the bank. He had
he made a great deal so hard for you know,
even even considering what's happened now, I still think it

(35:10):
was a good deal, especially given how poorly the Ben
Simmons era has gone. Do you expect the same and like, like,
do you think he's gonna get the same level of return?

Speaker 4 (35:22):
No? I I don't think at all. I think especially
just like because as you mentioned, you know, the playoff
issues are what really I hold on to, and I
think hardening his prime and his peak, some of that
stuff was overblown, Like he's had he had a lot
of really really impressive playoff moments, but the way he
approached and just kind of his like his style of

(35:45):
gamesick against the Heat two years ago, in Game seven
against the Celtics this past year, it's hard to have
a lot of faith in him being a guy who's
so central to what you do and rely on him
so much in these moments. So I think he's lost
all the value there. I think the best case, and
you never want to root for injuries, but I think
the best case is like, is a Clippers stumble out
of the gate PG or Kawhi misses in time, uh,

(36:07):
and they're off to like a six and twelve start,
and these roll these cast role players that are best
kind of around stars aren't really be able to fill
in the gaps. And so you know, Balmber and Lawrence
Spring get kind of ansty and they maybe move off
of their position. They won't trade, you know, a pick
or Terrence Mann or all that, and so you get
some you know Schmorgas board of man Powell maybe at Covington,

(36:33):
maybe that first round pick, and I think it's twenty
thirty they have available. It's way out there. It's it's
it's maybe even a pick that you know for a
year that won't even exist. But but I think that's
your best case scenario, right like, just just kind of
some of those Clippers role players at some depth. Hope
that you know, like you said, Tarris Mexican can become
a pretty good primary ball handler. Then you've got a

(36:54):
Norm Powell who could kind of fill Maxi's role to
an extent. I think they're different players at Norman Powell
is is very similar that he's really good getting downhill
uh and really good shooting the three ball, but prelimited
as a playmaker and defender because of his size. But
that would kind of be similar to Terrence Man would
give you some nice physicality and downhill scoring. They definitely
need more range and athletic on the wing coming to

(37:16):
in Even though he's much you know, declined a lot
from his peak, is still a pretty useful defender, especially
off the ball. Maybe he get back to thirty six
three rather than I think you had a down year
last couple of seasons from three. But I don't think
that would necessarily vault you into back into that that
tier with Boston Milwaukee where I thought the Sixers were
last year. But it's certainly a better reality than where

(37:37):
they look to be right now, with probably starting Max
and Melton, and then you have a Harris Tucker and
m B and then you've got like I guess, Beverly
House and Read off the bench, and I think those
are all pretty useful guys in certain regards. But if
that's the kind of all the depth you have, you're
in a pretty tough spot. So, uh, adding some depth

(38:01):
and maybe hoping that EMBI can finally stay healthy for
a playoff run and maybe learned, you know, from some
of his own struggles this past year in the playoffs.
The really kind of be an MVP level player, you know,
into the playoffs as well on both ends. That would
be kind of the goal for sure. But that's kind
of the tippy top. I think, uh, shake out for

(38:22):
the Sixers, But I don't think that's probably what's mappen.
It seems like maybe Man and you know, maybe not
even Man's but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's just yeah, it's hard, man, It's hard to find
because like the market seems so cool. It does seem
like if I'm if I'm Darryl Moury, I think all
I can do is let this drag into the season,
wait for a market to develop, because it's not like
because you know, with the Ben Simmons deal, it was
like he had offers and those offers weren't like horrible

(38:51):
in the off season, it doesn't really seem like there
is even on market right now. I mean with what
if Terrence Man is a maybe in some of these
reported negotiations, Like, that's a tough starting spot. Like and
do you see any other teams like you look at
you just kind of look up and down the association
and who would kind of take a crack? It's the
Clippers and like you know, maybe the Lakers get reckless

(39:14):
because they do have some tradable salary, but like, is
there anyone else that you even see that like even
logically makes sense, even if they were feeling a little frisky.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Yeah, I just I mean, I'm probably getting prelimber here,
but just based on the fact that like Limber, Yeah,
I can do what I have a title, I can't
do in reality. But I think like something involving Lavine
and the Bulls, and you know, it seems like he's available.
Maybe the Bulls want to, I mean, their team that
could use more playmaking. Maybe they're like, you know, Tomorrow's

(39:48):
a free agent after this year. It's it's all the
Bulls are very weird franchise, because I could see them
want to restart.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Sank on the Bulls being bullsy.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah, it's because I can see them wing let's let's
kind of start freshman. They just signed Voosh to a
not a bad deal necessarily, but it's a lot of
money tied up still, But I can see that. Maybe
I think that would be pretty good. But I still
think you're looking at a weird bit where like both
Levine and max you're better as off ball scores some
playmaking limitations. I think Levine's limitations are much less pronounced

(40:17):
than Maxi's hiss pastory, but certainly not guys who can
set up and be the same way Harden could. Maybe
somehow you're able to get like maybe it doesn't seem
likely at all, but like is the horrible Like they
end up with Dame somehow they move Maxi somewhere else
and they recoup some picks for that, Like I don't know,
this is all like very very like would you'd be

(40:39):
happy with that?

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Like you think like going all in on Dame, would
that be the type of thing that would get them
over the hump? Just kind of considering that they wouldn't
have a lot, like they don't have a lot.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Of depth to begin with, and they.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Kind of cash in what they had for Dame, like
for a long term health. Do you think the upside
is there, like even in the short term.

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Yeah, I think it's tough because you know, you never
want to necessarily assumer speculator. But does seem like maybe
they're starting to have to face the mb wandering eye
clock a little bit, and so like maybe maybe that's
even worse. Maybe, like I mean, Dan was great laughter,
but what if what if he starts to follow the
cliff all of a sudden then and be it makes

(41:22):
it even easier because there's no Maxie and there's no
Picks things like that. So I don't know, it's it's
not a situation I want to be in. Obviously, Mouri
has his own culpability and putting himself in this situation,
but that's not just saying that. You know, Harden hasn't
exacerbated on his own.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
But like anything, there's there's always multiple points of failers.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
And the situation, Yeah, the responsibilit contains multitudes. So yeah,
I think that's a fair point that maybe you don't
want to go to the route. But it is also
it's hard to necessarily fault Morgan this while the possibility
of pairing, you know, Dame Lillard and Joel Embids like
our pretty best be the best pick and roll you know,

(42:01):
I mean, I guess, let's say, Steph, I don't want
to downplay that the second best pick and role player
in the league with a guy in Bido. I think
was like the highest volume pick and role player last
year as a role man and had one of the
best points for possession as a roller. So uh and
he's a much better score than hard to at the
stage of lesser playmaker. But I think you could you
could survive that trade off for sure, So uh yeah,

(42:25):
I think it's a fair point in all regards big
and this is we're talking pieing this guy hypotheticals. I think,
you know, the even the slightest of realities would be
the one involving being maybe a three teamer that sends
you know, routes leaving to the sixers and you know
some stuff and a pick to the balls from the
Clippers and then hard and the Clippers. So but who knows.

(42:46):
I think the most likely outcome is something involving the
Clippers and Sixers where both sides get a little desperate
and maybe concee a little bit, or once I gets
desperate in Concedes, you know, three four weeks into the season,
a month into the season.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Well as taking this leisurely strolled down a hypothetical lane,
let's get your take. We we've been doing this throughout
the team previews. I want to get your rankings for
regular season rankings for what you think the top six
in the Eastern Conferences. Who are the six teams you
think will avoid the play in this season?

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Yeah? So I think Celtics, Celtics and Bucks are right there.
I think I think the Calves is gonna make a
pretty good bet. For all the stuff we talked about
with their their playoff woes, I think they are going
to be really good in the regular team again to
get to be seen if that translates to the postseason
like they would, they intend, but I would expect them

(43:39):
to miss it, you know, or miss the play in.
It's weird just saying miss the plan as yeah, as
a as a compliment, but that's their avoid the plan
I think is probably the best way to frame it.
I think the next the next have been a team
that seems to have a lot of durability. Brunton and
Randall don't really miss time, and they're really good volume players.
I think honestly, Brunton is more than just a volume pla.

(44:00):
But Randall is a very good kind of floor razor
at the very least. I'm kind of curious. Yeah, yeah,
I am curious to see kind of he you know,
if he can be if he can get enter the
post heason healthy. Know he had toss the Hawks tears
ago Randall, but maybe, you know, not playing on a
bum ankle might might help him a little bit. But
who's to say it wasn't that that was his only
issue in the playoffs. But I think they're there, so

(44:23):
that'll be four and then other than that, like it's
it's tough to see. Like I mean, the Heat are
such a like even if they get Dame, they're a
team that kind of seems to prioritize long term health.
Even though Jimmy's great when he does play, he's a
guy that likes to take some time off, not like
in game, but just take some games off. And their

(44:44):
depth would be great if they got They'm not saying
they shouldn't get damed by any means, but you would
be pretty low on depth for one injury. Might hear
Achieven more than it did the last couple of years.
I think the Hawks are I think I like the
Hawks a lot, to relatively speak, and I think Quinn
Sneyder's a much better offensive mine and naming Millen. I
like kind of the development, maybe the young guys and
Congo and Jalen Johnson a J. Griffin.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
I think maybe a harbor far harbor fear of the Hawks.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Yeah, weird way.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
They just kind of feel like that that team that
everyone's bored with, and their vibes have not been so
good the last couple of years. But it's like you
look up and down the rosters, like a lot of
pretty good players, like they should be pretty good.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yeah, And then I'm trying to think, like I'm not
a Nets guy, like I think they could have a
pretty interrom in defense. Offense was atrocious.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
And easy and I don't know why.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
They just they just weren't good, like good post trade
trades last year, that makes sense. I traded away Kevin
Durant and Kyrie Irving, But like the offense was terrible,
and like they don't really have a lead ball and
they're like I think the Cupboards is a very good
player who could maybe be in the running for All
Star consideration next year, but he's not like a primary initiator.
He's very limited as a patcher. They're just not like

(45:58):
they're just I don't really think they were playoff team
next year. So I mean, like I think I'm I'm like,
I like Indy. I think Indy is a team that
should compete for a playoff spot, but it's hard for
me to put them in that top six I put
the sixers, Yeah, I just I don't know, like I
would put them in that tier with like the Hawks

(46:20):
where I could see it and maybe like I'd bank
on it over the Hawks. But like, I expect this
to be a forty seven forty six win team, which
is where I think the Hawks could be. I think
the Magic could be up there to the Magic played
five hundred ball. I think when Marco Folts came back,
you know that it's a it's a good Eastern Conference.

(46:41):
The Pistoner trying to be better. I think some of
the moves they've made should help Unham, and he's Obviously,
a great player's own writer is going to be a
great player. I think he's good already. I like people,
I don't, I don't want. I don't want to. People
are sleep on the Hornets, But I do think the
Hornets could be okay, Like LaMelo must a lot of
time last year. Uh, Like, obviously, Miles Bridges seems like

(47:03):
a pretty wretched human, but he is a good basketball player,
and if he's playing, he's gonna help them. Like that's
that's just the reality of it. Unfortunately, I think Mark
Williams could take a step if they're playing. Yeah, I don't.
I've actually watched a lot of stuff on him last
few days to write something. But yeah, he's impressive too.
You know, if the every team PJ Washington, that would

(47:23):
be pretty nice as well. So it could be derailed
a bit by maybe they're trying to kind of really
explore what Brandon Mellers is a creator. That could hurt
them somewhat, But like that's not me saying I think
they're gonna be a top six team. But like, I
don't think they're going to be a pushover. They won
twenty seven games last year and they didn't have Miles
Bridges then and then half of them all the ball
were probably their two best players. And so again I'm

(47:44):
not this isn't you know, Like I don't like Miles
Bridges as a person, but he is good at basketball
and it is going to help them win games, assuming
he is of the caliber he was two years ago.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, they were in the play in two straight years, right, Yeah,
so they added good young talent like Mark Williams.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
I think that there's a pretty much yeah, there should.
I don't think it's like there should. It's tough for
me to look at like the Eastern Conference and like
see a lot of teams that are tanking, and I
think there's a pretty big middle class. But I think
for now I will go with the five teams that
avoided last year, the top five seas last year, and
then put in Atlanta in place of Brooklyn. But that

(48:22):
could be sub to change. If Miami gets damed, I
think they'd be very good. But as of now, I'll
throw the top five seeds last year plus Atlanta. But
I wouldn't be surprised, like if anyone is basically is
set for Washington stuck in there. I don't think Washington's
gonna be terrible. I don't think it'll be good. But
they have a lot of NBA players in their roster.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
You're now, now you're getting into you know what. I
just appreciate every single team, and you know what, I
appreciate them so much that I can talk myself and them.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
No, no, no, I can't talk about something to them
being good. But I think they have too many competent
media players. Usually when you're tanking, you have a lot
of like fringe guys or bad players get a lot
of minutes. Maybe they go that right with their young guys,
but I just don't think it's really going to be
any big rollovers next year in the Eastern College, which
kind of goes back to my point, But it's hard
to project maybe beyond even three or four deep in

(49:09):
this conference.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
We respect Denny in this household. I like his game.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
So you have Milwaukee and Boston at the top, right,
like those were your top two. I think it's fair
to say those are the teams you have most confidence
in for the postseason, and probably Miami as well, just
given the success they've had. Is there anyone else? Yeah, mix,
if we're talking like postseason confidence power, rankings.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Yeah, Miami is a tough one because I think one
of the strengths of their roster last years they had
a lot of ball handing in depth, whether it was
Vincent Jimmy, I guess they did were Miss Tyler Hero
but Jimmy, Vincent Trucendle, Candle the ball someboy. He's not
a guy you want. We're in a seven pick and
rolls a game, but he's a guy in a pinch
on the second side. I can do some stuff for you.

(49:56):
And then the lost. Obviously, two of those guys Lowry's
year older. I don't want them to over like extend.
Lowry was really good to Ventro left at twenty two
to twenty three minutes per game, where as in the
thirty thirty two he was playing when he first came
to Miami. But obviously if they got Dame that would
change the caucus considerably.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
But yeah, I was in those top two. It's it's
tough to have a lot of conference and anyone I think,
like Cleveland, New York probably aren a lot of respect there.
Like Miami. I want to put up there as well,
because Jimmy is really good and Bam is really good
and maybe they like, do they get a better shooting
year from Duncan Robinston, because a lot of their struggles

(50:32):
last year was just the fact that they went from
like the best three point shooting team in the league
to one of the worst and then like kind of
leveled itself out in the playoffs. So if they're more
of like a thirty seven percent three point shooting team,
they're probably pretty good. Again, if they were the thirty
three to thirty four that weren't a regular season, they're
probably going to be, you know, jockeying for a playing
spot and needing the Max Truce explosion to overcome the

(50:54):
Bowls in the elimination game.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Not happening anymore. He's ours ours, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Maybe it's it's probably Duncan Robinson this time or Tyler Heroes.
I guess how I heard it playing with in that
those games. But still yeah, so, like I guess if
I had to rank, go Boston, Milwaukee, Cleveland, New York, Miami,
Like I think those top two in a tier and
then the next three year and a tier, and then
probably the sixers in that tier as well, but kind

(51:21):
of in a like the second half of that tier.
Almost like I like Cleveland more than the Sixers headed
into the year, just kind of based on what we
know about both teams currently, Chicago it just doesn't really
inspire me much. I think, like there's all their their
defense is really impressive. I love watching Caruso Levigne's are
really impressive verstutal score. But I think they're just they're

(51:41):
just very much cap and they're one of their best
players is can't play because he's going through a ton
of really disappointing injuries and Lonzo Ball. So uh yeah,
that's kind of where I'm I think there's like a
top sticks roughly, i'd say, But then you know, like
I mentioned, I think any of Indiana Detroit to Chicago
to run was no weird spot. I don't know. So

(52:02):
that's that's where I'm at it. There's a lot of
kind of middling teams that I think it all jockey
for some of those spots. But like like that top
six of Boston, Milwaukee break a tier, Cleveland, New York,
we break it here, then Stixers in Miami a break
half a teer between you know, New York and Philly.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Right now, Yeah, I mean it's exciting for me, because
the kas are still going to have to prove that
they're not going to beat themselves in the postseason, right Like,
I think a lot of what happened in that series was,
you know, he inexperienced guys, you know, the processing beat
him of it mobiley, which has always been kind of
one of his calling cards since he's come into Like,
just wasn't there, right Like, there were plenty of opportunities

(52:40):
where like, even just in the short role where he'd
normally find Jared Allen for a lob, it's I'm thinking
about this a little too much, and it's half lob,
half shot, and it's going off the rim.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Right Like, really, no one played well.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
If you would have told me two years ago that
when I was watching Mobley is a Prospect that my
biggest takeaway of his fers first playoff show was that
he's improven a short role, I would have been very,
very surprised. But that's what happened. Yeah, he just got
sped up.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
As our listeners are going to be absolutely sick of
me bringing up this fact, but I just love watching
people's face. Have you seen on NBA dot com what
is points per Possession?

Speaker 4 (53:16):
Was?

Speaker 1 (53:16):
As a roleman in that series.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Gay, I'm going to say like zero point four to seven.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
I don't even know it was zero point zero nine.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Yeah, that's that's not where you want to be. I think.
I think it's shooting was like forty seven or something too.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
It was a really, really rough I think, like That's
that's what gets me so excited because I'm like, I
don't think that's going to happen again forever mobile, right Like,
I think these are all guys that are going to
respond to that sort of thing, and it's just exciting that. Yeah,
Boston and Milwaukee are really good, but you know both
of them have questions as well, right Like, it's a
good Eastern Conference, but there's no like tried tested one

(53:57):
every single year.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
We're going to be a contender.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
We're juggernaut and you're gonna have to knock us off
like the Warriors were during the running in the Western Conference,
and that doesn't exist, right Like, there's an opportunity in
my eyes for the Calves that if they catch fire
and everything starts to click, you don't know how far
this thing can go.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Yeah, And I think, just just on the mobiley topic,
one I wrote about his short roll stuff at dim
up Rocks. When anyone listening wants to read that, I
think you can just start like playoff lessons Mobile Din
up Rocks, maybe toss my name in there. You'll find it.
But I really just think like getting that floater from
about ten feet would open up a ton because like
a lot of times with the guys in the short role,

(54:36):
you talk about the path is the issue, but I
think kind of his lack of scoring was the bigger
issue in the short role. So just getting that little
push shot down would do wonder to think it would
really kind of slow blow his decision making, kind of
quell some of the anxieties to go through his head.
Maybe when he used on that shirt roll, I would
make things a lot easier. And then also just like
I have, like I have a tough time seeing Jared
Allen Botch positioning as much as he did. Again, like

(55:00):
he's usually guys so technically sounds usually the right spotches.
He was constantly overhelping us to this Randall a guy
who like is completely content to take tough shots. He
was like even Jalen Bronston who'd like to take tough shots.
He was letting them create advantages before they'd created them.
It was as a very weird serious not to say
that the Knicks didn't have a great strategy in the Capital,
I have faults, but there's a lot of stuff that

(55:21):
it was just like they they were clearly not responding
well to advirgity, which is maybe an indictment in his
own way that you have to address. But definitely some
stuff you can address that isn't just oh like as
a Choro somehow get like great shooting gravity like you
can uh you know, which doesn't say I gu it's
gonna happen, but that's okay. They got George Nag and
Max Trus and maybe can be more of a selective

(55:43):
rotation guy with with his uh versatile defense and cutting
it all.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Yeah, fun fact, I believe Isaac led the team in
plus minus and this he did.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
He was the only one that was a positive department.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
But you know, anyway, so something I did want to
just ask you to kind of take it, you know
back before you know, we start wrapping this thing up.
The last two years, Justin and I have kind of
felt like it's our obligation to like remond as this
team's kind of been on a trajectory to remind everyone

(56:15):
how young they are. You know, hey, this team's young.
They're gonna lose stupid games they shouldn't lose. They're gonna
they're gonna blow fourth quarters, they're gonna they're gonna build
big leads.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Then they're gonna give them up. They're gonna do young
team things.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
They're gonna lose a series that's going to just annoy
the hell out of you.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
And uh and my question really to both of you,
uh at this point is is that still the case.
They're not going to be playing a single player in
their rotation that is in their first or second year.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Their their youngest guy will be a third year player.
That's that's playing for them.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
In evan, most of their most of their players have
been in the league three to seven years. Should we
still view this team as a young team that we
have to be patient with or are they at the
level of seasoning that we should start raising those expectations
on a night to night basis for you know, them

(57:12):
to start exercising some of that young team's stuff.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
I would say patients should still be adhered to, but
it needs to be a company with progress, right like
you they can't bow out in the first round, even
if it goes better than I did this year, and
you can't still say, oh, look, you know, nobody's in
the year three, darros Carlin's in year five. You know,
Don Mitchell just is entering his prime, and same with
Jared Allen like that, like they have to Like I

(57:37):
think obviously the goal was to at least one the
playoffs series last year, but you know, after your reflect
on things, you can see why they maybe weren't prepared
to do that last season. But this year, I think
you have to make the second round. You have to
be a competitive in the second round, and if you don't,
then yeah, you're going to have some pretty big questions
to answer about about the roster, right, Like you know, im,

(57:57):
it's tough to know necessarily why this team might fail
or say why they why they failed this hypothetical second round,
but you can you can see a world where maybe
the Evan Mobile year at Alan pairing just doesn't have
enough facing and offensive utility, so maybe you have to
you have to reflect upon that. And so yeah, I
think patients is still something you should adhere with to
and practice. But the caves will also have to show progress.

(58:19):
So it's been two straight years of progress, right. You
think about they went from one of the worst teams
and then they because that's how they got out of Mobile,
and then they nearly made the playoffs, and then they
made the playoffs pretty easily, won fifty one games. And
now the next step is like, can you show that,
like like, it's not just making the playoffs, it's it's
it's being a team that you know, people are talking
about individually and and things like that. So uh yeah,

(58:40):
patients with progress is how I would how I would
frame it. And it's like, like I said it way earlier,
It's just it's a big year for this team, and
I'm optimistic about them, maybe to a fault because I've
kind of always liked this core, but I do think
this team is going to be really good and not
just a team that is a regular season you know.
Analytical darling, they wanted to do one game. They had

(59:01):
some net rating indicators that had people really optimistic about them.
Beyond that it certainly didn't prove true, Yeah, and prove
indicative would be the proper Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
And I remember even last season when people are like, well,
you know, like most teams with this net rating, they're
they're contender. I'm like, they're not like the experience, Like
you have to have reverence for the teams ahead of
them that have way more playoff experience that didn't excuse
what happened against the next Right, But I agree with you,
like you need have patients, but there needs to be

(59:33):
higher expectations. You need to see that progress. They need
to win around, Like, there's going to be times in
the future, even if they get this together, even if
they had a conference finals run, there's probably going to
be times that are frustrating, right, Like even you look
at Tatum and Brown first two years conference finals, but
then you know, first round exit, you have some mistakes.

(59:54):
Lebron James, who's one of the greatest playoff performers ever
two thousand and seven, didn't look great in the finals,
right like pop not a lot of answers around him.
Four years later, shows up in twenty eleven and you know,
there's still some mental hurdles there. There's still mistakes because
he was just so young and had so much success
so early on. Guys aren't even right, like they're humans.

(01:00:17):
You're going to make mistakes, and especially when you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Guys that's young.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
You're going to have times where it's frustrating and they
just don't play up to their own standards. But you
need to see that forward progress. You need to be
at least executing at a level where you can kind
of make better assessments of Okay, well, is it process,
is it execution? Is it fits? Like so many things

(01:00:42):
went wrong in that series that it's just like, Okay,
we've got to you know, improve the context around them
and give them another chance at this to really figure
out what we have. But I definitely think there's still
going to be growing pains. But I do think it's
fair to expect more of this team.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
Yeah, absolutely, I just I just think like, and this
is such a cliche, but uh like winning is really
really hard. Like I think, of course the Cavs in
this cores want to uh win a Tyler or make
make an NBA Finals appearance, but it also might just
top out a couple of conference finals appearances or four

(01:01:19):
or five series wins. Like that's that's not to like,
you know, throw you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Can draft an m v P and and still like
pop out as a second round team, Right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
It's not to throw to throw water on the kind
of this this enjoyable flame that they have going. But
it's just the reality of things. I mean, you look
at you know, you've mentioned the game a couple of
years ago when the you know, when the Celto's had
the injuries to Kemba and Angelem Brown that kind of
derailed their seasons to an extent. But even last year
was disappointment for them, Like they they were trying to
turn to be on a revenge tour and they they

(01:01:49):
bout out in the second and the third round. Excuse me,
we're to call the third it's called the East Fronts Finals.
I don't know why I said that, but but it's
just it's just how it goes. Like it the reality
they might sit with Cows might just end up as
a team that makes a couple of COVERORGCE finals. And
it doesn't mean fans can't be frustrated. You can't call
it necessarily like a letdown from what they wanted. But like,

(01:02:10):
that's just how it might end up. And I'm not
trying to have anyone braced for that reality, but it's
it's one that might just come to fruition.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
So I think it's just a reminder to like enjoy
the regular season and enjoy what you have right now,
because yeah, for sure, that's what Carter and I said
after Lebron left, was we just want to have like
a grid and grinder, like that's that would be great
if you had the staying success over like a seventy
year period where we have, because like I always compartmentalize

(01:02:42):
regular season in playoffs because there's this eighty two game
stretch of multiple months where I'm spending three four nights
watching my favorite team, And are they making me have
fun over four or five months. I think that's an
important thing. Like I think for a fan, like it's
great when your team makes you have a really nice
time a lot of the time, and there's a real

(01:03:04):
value to that. And I think this is a team
that can get over the hump, and I think this
is a core that can do some really special things.
But I just plan on trying to enjoy the hell
out of what we have in the present, because we've
seen teams that look like they have massive runways not
have runway, and weird things happen. So just cross our

(01:03:24):
fingers and try to enjoy every moment we get.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Yeah, I would say too, Like, I think maybe some
of the like fans might say, out, we did that
last ye and then you know, so now we're always
going to be apprehensive for this next year. We who
win fifty two games again? I think maybe the way
it can be shifted ton't like look for things throughout
the regards season that you think could prove why this
year is different, why they could be a better team
in the in the playoffs. Right. I think that's like

(01:03:49):
as someone who understands that, like the pro seasons is
not incredibly correlate all the time with the playoffs. That's
what I'm always look if I'm looking for, like, Okay,
why is this team maybe prepared well to thrive in
the playoffs? Why is this seem to be have some
weak points? And so if you're a cast fan say okay,
well one to fifty one games last but then look
what happened. I don't really care about that again, just
look for, like for games, moments, possession sequences that say, okay,

(01:04:11):
this is why I think they're going to be better
prepared in the spring this year against whoever they play,
and why they should be you know, actually a team
that reached the second round and beyond, or why should
I have hope and I don't just want to kind
of treat this as a redo of last season.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
I completely agree.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I mean, if you're a CAS fan, or if you're
an NBA fan, you should absolutely be reading everything Jackson does,
following all of his work, because I think nobody does
a better job of breaking down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Those nuances and whatnot than you do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
As Carter said, you've ridden some of my favorite cast
features over the last couple of years. So we really
appreciate you taking the time to sit here and talk
with us. And before we let you out of here,
anything you got coming up that you want to plug.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I'll have something
on Mark Williams, I think over an espianation this week.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
I got Dynasty's docks on him.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
Let's go if you're not familiar with this game, He's
a pretty fun young center, some defensive talents and a
little bit offensive versatility. I think you should be pretty
fun nextually with Lamello ball back in the fold. So
other than that, I think I actually will have another
Cavs thing this week, and we're doing this playoff lessons.
Playoff lessons thing. I think this one's going to be
on Darius Garland, so I'm going to rewatch the games

(01:05:20):
this week and kind of see what I can find there. Obviously,
earlier I wrote about they have mobilely struggles at Dimod
Brox two. The Garland thing about Dimod box Mark Williamshich
is probably less relevant to these listeners espanation. But that's
all I have done with pipeline, I think in the
coming days. But yeah, I appreciate you to have me
on and I always enjoy talking about this cave group.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Thank you so much, man, I really appreciate it and
really appreciate everyone to tune in live on YouTube. Make
sure you like and subscribe. Click notification bells you know
when we're going live. If you're listening via podcast and
you want to support, leave us a reading the review,
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really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying

(01:06:01):
safe out there. Until next time, Go cats, MHM