September 2023 Mailbag

Justin and Carter answer listener questions regarding the ceilings for Evan Mobley and Isaac Okoro, what changes may come to the offense, how big of a concern team rebounding is and much more.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
What Carl slamming it?

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh Darl, left wing reball.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Perfect Darlin both pop there, Halift block the shot at
the rim? How with the left head and a fowl.
Welcome to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the KAS
Media family. I'm your host, Justin Browen. The Chase Down
is presented by Fubo TV. Watch over one hundred channels
of live sports and TV for half the cost. Cable is,
no contract and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV

(00:28):
dot com. September is finally here. Training camp is just
weeks away. I can just taste it. KAS basketball is
just around the corner. The leaves are starting to turn,
and that just normally that's a sad time. Normally the
weather gets a little bit worse, but for me, it
just means sports are about to kick off. And joining
me today is my co host Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how

(00:49):
you doing, Buddy.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'm doing okay.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
It was.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
It was a challenging bedtime. Milly was both obstinate and
had the giggles, which is a cute, challenging thing to
hope with because you don't want to suppress their internal joy.
But you also have a lot to get done, so
you know. Uh it was also it was also a
vaccine day for the little one. Uh he you know,

(01:13):
got all his his six month shots, so he was
not in the best of mood either. So you know,
we're we're we're surviving over here in the Rodriguez household.
I've almost missed taking us full because Kylie was texting
about how the baby now won't eat his bottle. So
you know, things are going well. But this, this will
be a welcome reprieve from the day to day uh uh,

(01:37):
you know, your day to day things of of parenthood.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I was really expecting you to transition into and I
have to deal with that same situation with you when
it comes to nobody. We need to get this thing
going forward. You're not giggling, You're too difficult. That's that's
usually the way this goes. But we have a.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Final love it when you get the giggles, buddy. I
try to I do, and I do what Millie does too.
Sometimes it's just a little bit of work.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Sometimes, you know, it just gets in the way of
accomplishing your goals. But I want to thank all of
our listeners for submitting questions to this mail bag episode.
We've got a mix of questions here, both from Twitter
as well as our discord. Just a little reminder on
the front end, if anybody wants to join the Chase
Down Discord, just send a screenshot of a review, whether
it's five stars on Spotify or an Apple review. Give

(02:28):
us five stars there as well. Then that screenshot that
Chase doownpod at gmail dot com and we will send
you an invite link to that. It's the best way
to support the podcast, and we really really do appreciate
when you guys do that. But we'll kick things off
with our good buddy DH from the discord. He asks
what should the backup one minutes look like this season?
Who should inhabit that role, whether Ricky is back or not?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Carter, So, I think what Dh is actually asking an
a roundabout way, is who's going to be the ninth
man in the rotation? Because if you look at it,
it's kind to me the top eight are pretty darn clear.
It's gonna be your core four, it's gonna be your
Max Struce and george' niang. That's that gets you to seven.

(03:11):
I think Okoro absolutely needs to be in the rotation.
Every every team has a wing stopper in their rotation.
So so now you're kind of looking at Ty Jerome
or Dean Wade for those for those ninth man minutes,
and it's kind of a matter of do you want
to play big or do you want to or do

(03:32):
you want to have more you know, playmaking on the floor.
And you know, I think there's a lot of there's
cases for both, and but the more I've been thinking
about it, I think if if you know, you might
just need to go case by case on a night
to night basis, because in both of those guys spot

(03:54):
you know, prospective spots in the rotation, there's guys ahead
of them in the rotation that should be able to
play the roles really well. Karas Lavert can play a
mean backup one. Donovan Mitchell can play a mean backup one.
You know, George Niang is a four, Evan Mobley is
a four. You know that you can slide Okoro up there.
Max Struce has been a helpful for so it's really

(04:18):
you know, gonna be I think slightly matchup dependent, slightly
formed dependent. So the real answer to me there is
whoever's playing better and that'll kind of drive who gets
the backup one minutes. But for now, I can't help
but lean towards tide your own. Maybe it's just because
he's a shiny new toy, and you know, I'm still

(04:39):
worried about Dean's shoulder, but I think if Ty is
gonna play, he's gonna get those backup one minutes. And
I just don't think there's more than ten or so
a game, but you know, it's nice to have ten
reliable minutes in there.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, it's really hard to kind of predict how many
minutes per games certain guys are going to get and whatnot,
because we don't know how this is going to look
in camp. I'm going to say that whether Ricky is
with the team or not, and again, we wish Ricky
all the best, and you know, we're hoping that we
do get to see him in a CA's uniform, but
mental health definitely comes first. But whether he's back or not,

(05:18):
I think I just want the regard rotation to be
Garland and Mitchell, and I think I want I've come
to the place, Carter where I think I want Isaac
Okorrol to be the other guard. If even if he's
playing with kerisel Vert kind of functionally playing, you know,
at small forward and providing some alternate playmaking. I really
think it's important to prioritize a choral minutes, especially early

(05:41):
in this season, because you're going to have a contract
extension decision to make. Now. The Cavs could still sign
him to an extension prior to the season this year,
and if that's the case, you want to showcase him right.
You want it to be clear whether or not, or
basically make it clear why you made that invest and
if you do choose to make that investment, or you

(06:02):
might want more information to make that investment in the
future right, and maybe even find out if you need
to make a decision at the All Star break. And
for me, getting Isaacle coral minutes at the two, you're
assuming he's coming off the bench in these spots, and
I think that's the best way to kind of get
him going downhill, kind of use some of that screen
setting with the guards that we saw later in the

(06:24):
season and frankly stealing a page on the Knicks playbook,
because they did a lot of that kind of guard
to guard screening in that series, and that was part
of what jeopardized kind of the cav's rebounding position and
made things a little bit complicated for them, and that's
something that I think Isaac can do. So because you
need to make a decision about Isaacle coorol, and because

(06:45):
he's one of those guys where you're going to like,
he's one of the few routes to upside really on
this roster outside of the corps, I would prioritize him,
And to me, that means not playing a traditional backup
point guard because they're there's only so many minutes to
go around, and I'm pretty comfortable with Karslavert, Max Druce,
George Niang kind of playing those forward minutes and having

(07:09):
Isaac being there as a point of attack defender.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Sure, sure, you know, I think it makes perfect sense.
And I think you answered the question a little more
directly than I did. You know, I think if Isaac
is the eighth to man in this rotation, there's gonna
be plenty of minutes for him, you know, to get in. Like,
I actually don't think the two versus the three. I

(07:33):
just don't think it matters in a bench player context
because of the fact that I think so many more
of his minutes will be on the floor of just
one of Darius or Donovan. You know, the distinction between
the two and the three. If you're Carousel, if you're
playing next to Karaslovert or Max Druce, it kind of
is like who cares, you know, You're just out there.

(07:56):
Uh and uh. And ultimately, I think that I'm warming
on Jerome quite a bit the more I kind of
look at all the things he does, so I'm interested
to see. But really, I think what I want more
than anything is for it to be a meritocracy, whether
Ricky is there or not. I want the best players
that help the team the most within the context of

(08:18):
the team to get on the floor. So and I
think that latter part is important because I don't want
you know, let's say Jerome is better than Dean Wade
in camp. Well, if we're if the lineups are shaking
out and the rotations are shaking out, where we need
what Dean does more than what Tie does, then you
know that matters. So but like you know, I don't.

(08:40):
I don't think anyone should get their get us get
minutes off of reputation.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the depth on
this team is now an asset, right. I like that
it's a big, big transformation that we saw this offseason
what we hoped for last year. When when we were
podcasting at the beginning of September linelast year and the
Donovan Mitchell trade just became official, we said, it's probably
going to take another transaction cycle. It's going to take

(09:07):
another offseason to get the right around a mount of
depth around this team. They have that now, So I
really agree with you that it's going to need to
be based off of Meriden. I'm just I'd like to
see Isaac o'corro in that role. I'm interested to see
what we get from him this year. You know, he's
not spending the entire offseason reconstructing his jumper like he

(09:27):
was last year. He said in the past how he's
kind of felt more comfortable with the ball in his hands.
And you're not going to have a primary ball handling
role in this offense. But I do think that there's
going to be opportunities available. I think with the amount
of movement that the Cavs had in their offense last year,
getting more movement shooters, compromising the defense, attacking destabilized defenses

(09:52):
with advantage. That's going to be something that o'korral is
going to be able to do more of coming in
off the bench, playing with just one of Garland or
Mitchell and just want to mobile and Allen. I just
think there's gonna be a lot more space to work
and I think it's worth investing in that. But we'll
speaking of leaps, LSD eight thirty one asks which leap
do you believe is more crucial for the Calves this

(10:13):
upcoming season? Darius Garland or Evan Mobley. I'm on record
of saying that I think the Garland leap is the
one that I'm the most confident in. But when you're
talking about what's most crucial for the Calves, I think
it's Evan Mobley.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, I mean from Jump Street, Evan has been the
you know, when we drafted him, when we got to
see his first stretch of games, I think everyone watched
Emily went like, Oh, that's how they'll become a title contender,
and like that's still true today. Like yeah, So like

(10:50):
I think even on both in the long term, it's
definitely Evan. I think even in the short term, it's
Evan because of the fact that I think Areas didn't
have a particularly good series against the next, and he
was still our best player against the next. I think
his floor is so high right now that even if

(11:12):
the players around him are playing well, the Cavs are
going to do well. And I think Evan's floor, at
least on the offensive end, is still quite low. I mean,
I mean, don't make me say point zero eight again.
So I think if.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I say one more time, that's going to be my
blood alcohol level.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
So I think, like Evan, Evan's a leap for Evan
on the offensive end. I don't see how a leap
on the defensive end is possible. He's just so good
already that, you know, I think that would be sacrilegio,
just suggests he's got like another thirty to grow to.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Learn Kevin Looney's defensive instincts.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Come on, seth.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I couldn't resist that one.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
I know, Wow, he won't listen. It's fine, you know, ultimately,
I think, I mean, I think the answer is tope Evan.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, I think it does too. I mean, we said
it all last year, right like, he needs to be
kind of that offensive hub. And that's something that I
think when you look back even at last season, that
was something that it seems like by the decisions JB.
Bickerstaff and the coaching staff made, that's something they recognize,
right Like, you look at the progression throughout the year.

(12:27):
His rookie season, he was averaging about forty one passes
made a game pre All Star break last year is
only forty one point eight, but then post All Star
break that jumped up to forty six point nine. As
kind of context there, Garland led the team during that
stretch of forty nine point five and Mitchell averaged twelve
fewer per game thirty four point five. So Evan Mobley

(12:49):
was being used a lot for his playmaking and it
just wasn't there against the next And there's a variety
of factors for that, and that's something we're going to
get into with his next question, which is from Toby
who asks DG became an All Star in his third year?
Ken ev reached that as well, and if he doesn't,
how can we still say that he took a step

(13:11):
forward this year? So basically, what indicators outside of whether
or not he's named to an All Star team next
year would you be looking for to say that he
took a step forward next year, Carter, You.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Know it was I thought this question was interesting because
I hadn't. I'm mostly passed All Star concerns. You know,
I'm just like, not a big Awards guy. I'm not
a big All Star guy. But it was interesting to
me that if he were to take a leap as
an All Star, that would mean he is really taking
a jump because a lot of the things he does

(13:44):
are not things that are awarded in All Star Game voting.
You know, he is a flashy player on the wrong
side of the floor for that. So you see that
highlight video NBA tweeted out, yes, and the entire video
was his blocks and the cat retained possession on every
single one of those blocks.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
It was ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, so he he is an amazing player. I think
if he became an All Star. There's if he if
he gets an All Star, not especially with you know,
it's not like Cavs buzz is super high after that
Knicks series loss. I think that means he really did
take a leap. So it was a fun little thing
to even consider. If he doesn't make that kind of

(14:28):
if he's not named an All Star or you know,
or maybe like more aptletely. We're not like pounding the
table demanding he's an all star. How will we know
he took a leap? I think you look at a
couple things. You look at assists per game, You look
at jump shooting, field goal percentage. I want to see
how that jumper is progressing as he continues to refine

(14:50):
his form, and you know, is he going to show
that he's gotten more of a jumper than is the
numbers say he does. And then defensive rebound rate. Those
are my three things that I am really looking forward
to kind of tracking over the course of the year
to see if there's a meaningful difference there, because, as

(15:13):
we've noted, if this team's going to get better on
the boards, it's going to have to come from in
the house and Mobiley I think is the best candidate
to be that to grow in that capacity. Just you know,
he's got room on the frame to get stronger, He's
he's got an extra year of savvy, got some hard
knocks lessons to learn from. So those are my three indicators.

(15:36):
How about you justin.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, I think the reboundings are a great thing to
point out. I think it's worth noting that that was
a major area of growth for him. You look at
kind of percentiles when it comes to defensive rebounding and
Jared Allen it's been steady. Last year was his lowest
actually with the three years with the Cavs, but he
was at the ninetieth percentile last year. His first year

(15:58):
with the Cavs ninety first, second year ninety third, So
you know, if he's around that ninety third percentile, I'm
pretty comfortable with it. Evan Mobley as a rookie was
in the seventy eighth percentile when it comes to defensive
rebounding and he was up to eighty eighth last year,
so you know, that's a pretty kind of seismic jump

(16:19):
up the standings. And if he can kind of get
into that, you know, low nineties range where Jared Allen's at,
I think the tandem of them could make a really
big difference. As a point of reference, Jared Jackson Junior
is in the seventy fifth percentile when it comes to
defensive rebounding, and Tristan Thompson in their first year going
to the finals was in the seventy ninth. He jumped

(16:40):
up in twenty sixteen, the year one they won to
the eighty nine percentile. So we've seen, you know, how
big of an impact he had and how you can
kind of have that internal growth even you know, in
your mid twenties and when you start to reach physical maturity.
So that's something that I would expect to see from
Evan Mobley. But I really like where I would like

(17:01):
to see growth, and I don't think it necessarily needs
to be captured in an All Star appearance. Like one
of the biggest barriers to Evan Mobley making an All
Star team is his teammates just how good they are,
right like Darius Garland and Donn and Mitchell are going
to get a lot of attention. Dono Mitchell was in
the MVP voting and rightfully so, I think Evan Mobley

(17:22):
is probably their best chance on this roster of a
player that can become an MVP. But when you look
at offensive archetypes of where we'd like to see Mobiley
get to, like you said, it's roles that aren't normally
rewarded in that way, like even bam at a Bayo. Yes,
he's had some injury issues, but he's been in the
league for six years and he has two All star

(17:44):
appearances like and that's a hell of a player that's
been a big part of finals runs for them and
deep playoff runs for Miami. But I would like to
see them take pages out of kind of that Bam
playbook because you look at the Cavs last year and
the cut numbers that we talked about, where the Cavs
were second most frequent in terms of plays that involved

(18:08):
kind of a cut being like the final end of
that play, and they were the most efficient team when
it came to cuts. That was all kind of taken
out of the Golden State and Miami Heat playbook, right
with those split cuts, using the big man in those spots.
And what really kind of made it harder for those
possessions to be effective in the playoffs was Mobile just
wasn't as much of a viable threat when he's keeping

(18:30):
the ball in those spots. He needs to be better
both with that mid range jumper, with the floater when
he's driving the basket and stronger when he takes it
all the way to the rim. And I'm interested to
see what the addition of Max Drews does for that
because something we haven't talked about on this podcast is
Max Drew's playing with Bam Antebaio and being someone that's

(18:50):
involved in kind of those movement sets, those split cuts
and those kind of actions. He knows what to do
when you're primarily involved. Because most of the times with
the Cavs, it's Garland and Mitchell with either Mobley and
Allen in those kind of actions, right, we don't have
a lot of spacing around them. So we're going to
generate spacing in creative ways with those three guys. Max Struz,

(19:11):
whether he's playing off ball or if he's involved in
those actions, has a lot of experience playing in those
type of sets and can give guidance to Havin Mobley there.
So he needs to improve his playmaking in those spots,
and he needs to become more of a viable scoring
threats in those situations. And I think elevating his offensive
game in those ways is so much more important than

(19:32):
whether or not he develops a reliable three point shot,
because that's not a big part of BAM's game. But
they're able to blend movement shooters and non shooters and
cutters because of how good he is as a hub.
And that's where the casts need to get to because
You're probably going to have multiple non shooters on the court,
whether it's you know, Jared Allen and Evan Mobley or
mixing in Isaacle Corra or guys that want to slash

(19:54):
so mobiley being effective in these spots I think is
the most important thing, whether or not it's for with
an All Star.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Appearance, absolutely, buddy, Let's keep it moving to let's see here,
let's go to Kyle. Can you go over your honest
thoughts about the Darius Garland tier? Why does the NBA
criminally underrate him compared to his counterparts?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Just now, I will say I don't think the I
don't know if he's criminally underrated overall. I think, you know,
you can find spots where he hasn't got enough credit.
But you listen to some podcasts like people are enamored
with Darius Garland. Right listening to our boy Adam Spinella
and Sam Vessini doing kind of their season preview. They

(20:41):
were talking. Adam in particular, was talking about just how
good Darius Garland is as an on and off ball player,
as a playmaker, just thinking he's one of the more
underrated overall guards in the game. I my honest thoughts
on kind of the tier is the same thing I
said to Seth, which is, I just don't see enough
that separates him from kind of like the Jalen Bruns

(21:01):
and Trey Young type tier. You know, I just I
didn't completely agree with the assessment of who he is.
I understand some of the hesitations intrepidation you have when
playing with a smaller guard, but that then didn't seem
to hold back other players on the list, And I
just I didn't see enough to put them in the

(21:23):
role player tier rather than kind of that third tier
with those other point guards.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, I think that. I think that's really our gripe.
And you know, if you feel like Darius is disrespected nationally,
I think that's really a byproduct of, you know, just
the embarrassment of riches at the point guard position. Like
you know, if someone if someone looks at you, goes
Darius is the thirteenth best point guard in the league.
Like my first blush instinct is go you idiot. And

(21:51):
then you start naming names and depending on how you
classify as like Luca or you know, guys like Harden
like and I would take Darius over Harlan Hard in
a billion times in a round. I'm just saying, like,
guys like that that have all handling duties even though
they're bigger dudes, I think, all of a sudden it

(22:12):
gets it's easy to make a defensible case. That's what
I would say. So like, and it's not like the
Cavs have a huge track record of success. You know,
Darius really has two seasons of very very good point
guard play under his belt. So guys with bigger track

(22:33):
records or frankly with like NBA Twitter type of bodies.
You know, Haliburn's an easy guy for an NBA Twitter
to fall in love with. He's six or five and
does a lot of the thing things we love about Darius.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
And Frankly, Haliburn's an easy player for me to fall
in love with. I love are too, like probably my
two favorite young point guards in the league.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, I think that's totally a fair take. So like,
I just think ultimately, like I think you can certainly
make the case for Darius to be above those guys,
and I would for a lot of them, but like
they're so close to each other, you know, I think
as long as you have most of those guys in
the same tier, like I don't think you can really
be that wrong. I just think I think in that

(23:14):
particular case, Stuth was wrong by putting Darius away from
that group, who I think he is at least in
their class.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, I totally agree, like runs in absolutely that guy
elevates in the playoffs. But you know, the Knicks one
basically as many games as the Cavs did two years ago,
and Darius was the clear best player on that team,
whereas Jaylen Brunson had an All NBA teammate in Julius
Randall right, and I think Darius has done enough to

(23:41):
show that he can be the straw that stirs the
drink when it comes to winning. You look at the
on off numbers last year, and Darius was that kind
of primary guy. So I think he definitely belongs in
that tier. Man Carter, This this next one kind of
breaks my heart because I hate fact checking our listeners.
But kaz Lick asks name three and stars who have
the highest chance of being lifers with one team, like Kobe,

(24:04):
Dirk and d Wade. Now, I know Dwayne Wade had
a beautiful sixteen year run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, but
there was that brief Miami heat tenure at the end,
people forget.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
About it wasn't coffee with the Bulls as well, it
wasn't just Cavaliers.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Ah, you're right, there was that. Yeah, you know, I
just I just always associate them with the Cleveland Cavaliers,
which again, congratulations to another former Cavalier of making the
Hall of Fame. But who do you think, Carterie, in
today's game has the highest chance of being a lifer.
Like my biased ass wants to immediately jump out, Oh yeah,

(24:42):
Darius Garland and Evan Mobley because you know, they're drafted
to a great situation. They're playing with one another. I'm
wearing the NBA jam shirt with the two of them
right now. I want to think that way you your
mind goes to, Okay, who's in a great spot where
there's not going to be a lot of incentive to
leave and go to their spots. Johannest came to mind,
but already he's kind of publicly toying with, you know,

(25:05):
the idea of maybe I might leave, maybe I'll go
to another team. So it's tough. There's just the thing
that makes this so hard, Carter is that players are
effective so much later in their careers, their third and
fourth contracts, you're still getting such productive years out of them.
That and they're going to you know, warrant sizeable contracts

(25:27):
in a league with punitive contract measures when you get
into those expensive kind of ranges, So teams are going
to have to say, okay, am I going to really
invest They're still productive, but he's thirty six years old.
Am I going to give him forty million dollars? I
think players being so productive so late into their careers
makes this a whole lot harder to accomplish.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
It does, so, you know, I think ultimately you're going
to have to find I think the reality is that
just means only a certain class of player is going
is really a candidate for this, because if you're not
at least a star level player, you're just gonna move
because you're eventually going to be you know, flatsome that
gets tossed into a deal. So I have two candidates.

(26:13):
Candidate one is a very obvious one. It's jokic talk
about a guy who does not care about glamor markets,
cares about winning, but isn't like so obsessed with it.
He doesn't like follow like you know this Kobe blueprint
where it's like basketball is the only thing he cares
about and if it's not going perfectly, then he's miserable.

(26:36):
Like it just doesn't seem like he's that kind of guy.
Seems like it's a job that he likes, that he
works hard at and he's you know, he's very very
good at, but like it's not the only thing that
brings him peace in life. So like, I feel like
people who are naturally kind of content like that, which
he seems to be. I think it makes a lot
of sense. And the next one is a is a

(26:58):
step below that Bam out of a Uh doesn't that
just feel like a guy Riley just adoors and spo
adores and they'll just never ever let him go, you know,
if he's not available when Kevin Durant pops up, when
Dame Lillard pops up. Uh, you know, like star names
that have Like, at no point has Bam ever been

(27:20):
discussed as a trade guy, and doesn't he couldn't he
kind of age into an Alonzo Morning type of role
for him down Like you can kind of picture just give.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Organization.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, yeah, you can imagine thirty six year old Bam
mentoring the next heat Center of the future. So I
think those are my two picks.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Those those are great picks. And those are two guys
that I can't imagine putting on any other jersey, just
like I can't imagine using any other Zoom, any other
conference software other than Zoom. God, that was a good idea,
and I just botched the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Really, Zoom, The obvious question answer is right there. Steph
Curry is never leaving Golden State.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
He might, I don't really know. He won't. He probably won't.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
It is for the averaging.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Just thank god Zoom captured me flubbing that transition, just
like they capture everything on this podcast. Support for this
podcast and the following message comes from Zoom. Half a
million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform for phone, chat, works, phases, events, apps,
and video. Zoom enables real time collaboration for our teams
around the globe. Zoom how the world can act. That

(28:30):
was a tough one, Carter. I don't feel good about it.
I'll let you answer the next question first, just so
that I get a little bit of time to recover.
David asks with the Cavs deeper lineup, what does this
season hold for Isaac Ocorram. We got a little bit
of a Choro section here, Carter.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, no kidding. I think that Isaac. This what the
season holds for Isaac is an initially small role with
a higher upside for any role player for high minutes.
You know, of the of the seven, eight, nine guys
in the rotation, I would put Isaac as the most

(29:08):
likely player to all of a sudden be playing thirty
on any given night, because you look up and down
the roster, he's the only stopper on that on the perimeter.
So unless you want Evan Mobley to be your primary
shutdown guy, you're gonna need to throw Isaac out there

(29:29):
to help shut guy's water off every now and again.
So I just feel like that is kind of the
road for him to getting a lot of minutes, and
then when he's out there, it's gonna be a matter
of can he earn more? Because even even if you
know a guy like let's say Caris Laverta is waiting

(29:50):
in the wings in the rotation on any given night,
if Isaac goes out and hits to two of his
first three corner threes and JB's gonna be a lot
more incentivized to keep him out there because of all
the other things he brings. So I just think I
think his role doesn't have to be that different. I
think it's really a matter of he just has a

(30:13):
little more he's less vital on a night to night
basis on the nights where he doesn't have it, and
then similarly, he also can be the fourth or fifth
best spacer on the floor at all times, which is
not something you could say for a lot of the
season last year. So I really think that is he

(30:37):
he should have a little bit more room to operate.
You know, we've seen that he's a pretty capable cutter,
even with some congested lineups. So I think that's the
other spot for his role where he can he can
like find a niche just being an athlete attacking the ram.
He's because the only other player on that the cat
that can really check that box of the Cabs is

(30:59):
Donovan Mitchell. You know, like they don't have a lot
of like perimeter like vertical attackers that are you know
that are you know, upper upper percentile athletes, Like that's
not really Carris's game though, I mean he's He's dunked
a few of humbull. I think that that is another
spot that Isaac could fill. I don't think he's gonna

(31:20):
get a lot more on ball reps. I don't think
we're going to see like dhos with him and stuff
like that. I think I think there's just too many
better options to take those reps right now.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, he might not get as many on ball reps,
but I would like to see him because most of
the Kavs actions are kind of three man actions, like
I'd like to see him more involved in those, because honestly,
like a lot of times when he gets stuck in
the corner, he doesn't and this was an issue both
with the Quoro Jetty and even Caris Lavert to some extent,
Like Lavert improved as a spot up shooter, but that's

(31:52):
not ever really been a major part of his game, right, So,
like his relocation and finding those passing lanes, all three
of them really wasn't a real kind of strong suit.
And that's something that I expect both George Niang and
Max Streus to bring. And therefore I'd like to see
Ocoral kind of more in those primary actions because those
guys are going to get into better spots off ball

(32:13):
and I'd like to see Ocoral kind of get the
ball going downhill. I'd like to see him attacking a
destabilized defense. And to mix this in kind of with
the next question which was asked by Storage, who asks
what's a realistic peak for Isaac Ocro? It's tough to say,
but like I look at him, and you look at
Josh Hart, who's smaller than Isaac Ocro and isn't as

(32:37):
good of a shooter, I think even as a Coral,
and if o'coro can go from like two and a
half threes to five a game at the percentages, we're
going to actually get a better idea of whether or
not what I just said about him being a better
shooter is sure or not, because Josh Hart has shown
you know, okay, I can scale up my shooting at
least to that level, and whether or not the percentages
hold true. I think if o'coro can start to pitch

(33:00):
in and contribute in other ways in the box score,
that would be major because even looking at someone like
Josh Hart, like when Hart was twenty three years old
with the Lakers, you know the season whichill Coral's going into,
he had a twelve point six defensive rebound rate, and
since then he got that up there to nineteen point seven.

(33:20):
For his career, he's a lot of seasons over twenty percent.
If a Coral can make even like half as big
of a jump as that and get from like kind
of a ten percent to sixteen seventeen, that's going to
help out the Caves a whole lot when it comes
to some of their defensive rebounding concerns. That's going to
give him a secondary skill set that makes it easier

(33:42):
for him to be on the court. And my biggest
concern I don't know what his peak is going to be.
I'm not going to sit here and act like I know,
but one of my biggest concerns is that he's not
going to be able to reach that on the Cavs,
just because there's only so many developmental reps to go around,
and other guys are just going to get prioritize over him, right,
And the Cavs do have, you know, lofty goals. They

(34:05):
want to be a contending team, and I just don't
know how much room for experimenting they're going to have.
I would like to see room for experimenting. I'd like
to see, you know, taking some lumps in the regular
season because you're trying to do that stuff. But that's
a really tough thing to balance, and sometimes you know,
someone falls short within that hierarchy right where the developmental

(34:27):
reps are just going to let's say, Garland Mobiley and
even Jared Allen, like we talk about we don't talk
about him enough in that way, but he's just turned
twenty five years old, like he can get better. So
I do worry that he's not going to be able
to reach his peak with the Cavs. But that's probably
why I'm coming at this with a sense of urgency
of trying to see more developmental rep from him this season.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
I think what's hard with Isaac is, you know, I
was looking through the last five six years of all
defensive teams while you were, while you were answering there,
and there's just not a lot of corollaries for him,
like on the upside end of it, like there's some
Andre Robertsons, some true you know on bald Batistai Boles,

(35:13):
true defensive specialists that like you never really trusted out there.
There's not a lot of these guys in the history,
you know, looking through the league that are like, hey,
they never got guarded that closely and they were one
of the top guys in the lake or top roll

(35:35):
guys in the league like that. So like, especially in
the modern shooting focus, like I don't want to go
back to like the mid nineties. I'll bet you know,
talk about a guy who probably would have done really
well in the nineties, Isaac Okoro would have done really
well in an eraw like that where some of his
limitations are deprioritized and he could lean more into his strengths.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
So especially that moved in three point line. That thing's
a beauty.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, no kidding, cheat code baby number one, number one
sneaky anti MJ argument and one of my favorites is
the is the cheap three point line? So, like, you know,
I think Josh Hart is a good is a good
kind of pick. I think guy like PJ. Tucker is
an interesting guy as well, though a different kind of

(36:22):
a different position. You know, A guy like Marcus Smart
popped into my brain a little bit, you know, just
being such an elite defensive player and the field was
good enough. The problem I see with Isaac getting to
those like.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I feel like Marcus Smart, Jack.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Well that obviously, and you know, I've never been the
biggest Marcus Smart fan, so maybe that's not that Maybe
that would be damning with faint praise. But like I
do think what's interesting about Isaac is like he kind
of has two roads to hitting. You know, he's got
two hypothetical ceilings here, because I don't think he will
get almost known at this point in their career, just
gets great at everything that they were just okay at.

(37:05):
But it's either the jumper gets good enough that he
is a legitimately reliable three point shooter as a role player,
or the intangibles are so good that that you can
play him anyway. Like I think, like when you bring
up Josh Hart, I'm like, well, Isaac doesn't play the

(37:27):
game as instinctively as Josh Hart does, you know. Like
I think Eric s. Falsterrass said something during TIMU said's
such a coach coach quote, but he was like, the
position Josh Hart plays is winner, you know, and like like,
while Isaac does what he's asked and does that very well,
Like I just don't see him impacting the game beyond

(37:49):
his role a ton the way Josh Hart does.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
So, But how much of that has to do with age, though,
Like you look at Josh Hart.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
I don't know. I feel like Josh Hart was like
that from Jump Street.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, but Josh Hart was twenty two as a rookie,
Like yep, yep. That's a great point. It's a great point.
I'm not saying he can't get there. I just think
he will need to. I think one of those two
things has to happen.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Either has to be a guy you guard, or he
has to be an intangibles guy because like you know,
as much as like our boy DH in the check
and say they need to run dh o's for him, Like,
I just don't think there's a lot of teams that
are that are good, that are trying to do that
for guys like this, yeah, that have shown what he
has shown.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
And for me, Josh Hart, like his first two years
with the Lakers, I don't think like, yeah, there was
Summer League when he was guarding calling Sexton or Sexton
was guarding him and hiking his shorts up, and we
all fell in love with Sexton at that time. But
like those two years with the Lakers, I don't feel
like his impact really came through. I feel like it
was really when he first went to the Pelicans and

(38:54):
then you know Portland and the Knicks that he developed
that reputation. And I do think learning to contribute in
other ways and being someone that gets rebounds and continues
to become more of an event defender, I think finding
more ways to justify being on the court beyond what
he already does really well when it comes to on

(39:15):
ball defense, I think that gives you more leeway to
experiment a bit. And I think, you know, the Cows
are probably going to blow a lot of teams out
this year, and I don't want them to waste those opportunities, right, Like,
you need to have a mindset of Okay, we're up
twenty here, let's start working on some stuff. Let's, you know,

(39:35):
not just stick with what we already do well, because
what the Cows do well and what they did well
last year, like the way that they had a better
regular season offense than the Warriors last year, Like that's
going to be a lot easier to do next year
with the additional spacing, and they can't fall into the
trap of Okay, this stuff's coming easy to us, So

(39:56):
let's just stick with our fastball. Let's just stick with
what we do well. They need to take advantage of
that opportunity and round out their game so they're better
prepared for the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Absolutely, buddy.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Next question comes from our favorite Calves pessimist and discord
user and big Grateful Dead fan Great which we just
call him by his user name. He says, and you'll
probably get an idea why he's a pessimist with the
framing of this question, how do you think the Cavs
get rebounds? Allan is okay at it against his against
guys his size or smaller mobile. It's one of his

(40:30):
weaknesses than replacing keV with Niang who can't rebound at all?
What are the Cavs going to do to ensure we
don't get murdered on the glass?

Speaker 1 (40:40):
You know, I think I've said this. Actually I'm going
to let you answer first. You have some great stats
that I'd like you to run through, and then I
will I will yes handle them because they were all
the things I wanted to say, but not data back.
Not data back.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Okay, So, as you guys probably know, I went back
and rewatched the Nixy or he's recently. It has not
been fun. But I definitely feel like I've learned a
lot from going back at it. You look at the
Knicks and what they did against the Cavs in the
half court. They had a forty one point five offensive
rebound rate, which is just ridiculous. You know, the defensive

(41:16):
rating off of those misses. The Cavs did a pretty
good job defending those second chance opportunities, and the Knicks
averaged eleven second chance points per game. But you know,
given how it felt, that feels low. And you looked
at that as well. With transition opportunities. The Knicks average
eleven points per games in the transition and some offensive
rebound opportunities were created there. Going back and looking at

(41:39):
the film, there were multiple times where you know, RJ.
Barrett goes, he misses the layup and Josh Hart is
there to finish it, right. So those are opportunities that
I don't really worry about as much. And one of
the big things that jumped out to me, Carter was
the Cavs or the Knicks average twenty two point two
points per game off of turnovers, and obviously, you know
some of that's going to lead to those eleven transition

(42:01):
points per game, but that was a major, major part
of where the Cavs went wrong in this series. And
you look at how the series progressed the first two
looking at the Allen Robinson matchup specifically, there was a
lot of times where Allen got out muscled in those
one on one battles in the first two to three
games of that series. And then as the series progressed,

(42:24):
and really as a counter to what the Cavs were
doing blitzing Brunson, the Knicks stopped using Mitchell Robinson to
screen for Jalen bruns and they were using Josh Harden,
they were using RJ. Barrett, And what that allowed them
to do was have Mitchell Robinson play at the baseline,
and they knew whether it was Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, whoever,

(42:44):
the strong side big was that guy's going to come
up and provide the help defense. They need to defend
the point of attack otherwise they're giving up open layups
and things broke down schematically from there. So when you
look at that series, obviously guys need to be or
individually we've talked about Mobley and Allen needing to be better,
but I do think that there are schematic aspects to

(43:08):
this for sure. And another one of the things that
interests me is, okay, do you possibly go with George
Nieing at the three? Like George Nianing, his defensive rebound
rate is very similar to Dean Wade, And when Dean
Wade was out there with Mobley and Allen, the Cavs
rebounded the ball. Well, if Nang is just in good position,

(43:28):
are they a good defensive rebounding team, that's going to
be an interesting good track.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
I think, really, I'm much more interested about this team
being a decent defensive rebounding team. They were dead last
and defensive rebound rate after the All Star Break. I
believe they were fifth in defense in that same stretch. Yep,
So like they were dead they were by a billion
miles dead last and defensive rebound rate in the playoffs

(43:54):
still the number one defense in that stretch. So I
think what's important to say here is based on what
we know of the team, which is important to say
because we haven't seen these new pieces get integrated yet.
Based on the data we have about how this team works,
don't need to be great at defensive rebounding to be
a great defensive team. And like we can talk about

(44:15):
the morale hit that comes with giving up big offensive boards.
We can talk about the physicality, you know, advantage, and
the mental kind of uh strain of it. In the end,
all that matters is how many points you allow per
one hundred possessions. It is the cleanest metric we have
for for how good you are at stopping the other

(44:38):
team from scoring.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
And it's remarkable that the Cavs, you know, allowing forty
of the knicks is miss misses in the half court
got rebounded. And even with that, the next half court
offensive reading was eighty two point seven. Like, yes, that
is abysmal.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, So, like I think we have to remember that
the goal is not to become a great rebounding team.
I don't think with the team's personnel they're going to be.
I think they need to get up to fifteenth, seventeenth,
somewhere in that range and and hold a steady there.
They they played a particularly brutal opponent for this particular

(45:17):
for this particular shortcoming, but that doesn't mean it won't
come up again. The big thing I would say, if
if I'm running the Cleveland Cavaliers and you know, and
I'm and I'm talking to the coaching staff about how
the end of the season was. I'm talking to the
players about the end of the season. One thing I
would say is, guys, we can't be last in pace,

(45:43):
a an under fiftieth percentile transition frequency team and be
this bat on the boards if you are giving up boards,
because it is an organizational philosophy that we're sending three
guys in transition every play and we're flying down the court,
we're hitting pull up threes, We're finding guys sprinting to

(46:06):
the corner for open threes. If that's what your belief
system is, you know what, I'll accept a bottom ten
defensive rebound rate, especially with your personnel. But if your
if your plan is to burn the whole shot clock
every possession, you're you're just gonna need to gang rebound better.
I really do put a lot of this at the
feet of guys like Darius, guys like Terris, guys like Donovan,

(46:30):
guys like Isaac and say and just say, guys, you
gotta help. You can't let Josh Hart beat you you
like like we are, like they have to send guys
back because they're now going to be on defense. We
can have if we're gonna play this slow. All five
of our guys should be in the scrum for every rebound.

(46:51):
So like, that's the argument I would be making, is like, listen,
we're either going to be a slow team that takes
care of our business and gang rebounds, or we're gonna
be a fast team that you know, rise the lightning
a little bit. But we're not going to be We're
not going to be bad at both.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing is, like so often
we talk about, you know, personnel and especially when it
comes to matchups and stuff like that. But like the
fact that the Calves don't get out in transition a ton,
that gave the next confidence that they could really crash
the glass, right because they're not going to get burned
in transition, right. And man, like the fact that the

(47:30):
Knicks were able to crash the offensive glass like that
and they were able to get so many transition opportunities
like that hurts. When you look at the percentage of
Knicks possessions that came in the half court, it was
only seventy five point one, which was dead last among
all postseason teams. That's both playoffs and play it. The
Calves just didn't keep the Knicks out of transition, and

(47:51):
when you look at how close a lot of those
games were, Yeah, the Knicks were the second best offensive
rebounding team for the season. Obviously they got better as
they added Josh Hart. I have concerns like that. That's
from a roster construction standpoint. That's one of the areas
I still kind of a concern, especially when it comes
to the backup power forward. But I do think that

(48:13):
there's things that you can do both schematically individually to
make this better. Like I said, maybe George Niang at
the three is something that we end up seeing in
some of these spots. Maybe you tying back to what
we said earlier about the guard rotation, maybe instead of
you know, having a Ricky Rubio or Craig Border junior

(48:34):
out there, you know a smaller point guard. If you're
sticking with just Garland and Mitchell as the only guys
under six to five that are in the rotation, maybe
that helps. Right. So there's a lot of ways that
you can go about this, But I'm ultimately not too
worried about this, because if the Cavs were more efficient offensively,
the Necks aren't going to have as many transition opportunities

(48:55):
if the Caves are you know, like it's just one
of those things where basketball is such a game of rhythm,
it's you know, it's a game of runs. For a reason.
The Cavs just didn't have a lot of offensive runs.
And that's as the absolute life out of you. So
it's a concern, but it's not my biggest concern when
it comes to this team.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Yeah, I think it's like a I think it's a
concern for like the next tier that the Cavs are
trying to get too much more than the current goals
they're chasing.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
The Celtics.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
I want to go off rundown real quick because I
want to make sure we get this sen before we
we we move on Canada Olympics bound. How do you feel, buddy,
Oh man, I feel so good.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
That was That was honestly such an emotional win, seeing
Dwight Powell in the locker room after, you know, crying
his eyes out, having been with the program for a while,
Shay stepping up in the way that he did got
I gotta be honest, not a big blue dork guy.
I have not enjoyed these No, you're not. I have
not enjoyed the experience of watching him for Team Canada.
I feel like sometimes he's Dylan Brooks with a little

(50:02):
less talent and better pr but Dylan Brooks stepping up
for Canada, and man, it just first time since two thousand,
This is going to be the first time that I
can really remember watching Canada on the Olympics, And yeah,
it feels really, really damn good. It feels good to
be able to get there with some important pieces still
missing that are likely going to play for them in

(50:24):
the Olympics next year in Paris. So I'm excited. Man,
we might have just an all time great sports weekend here, Carter,
because if Canada and the US end up in that
gold medal game on Sunday, Sunday morning before we kick
off the first NFL Sunday of the year, we got
Banjo Bowl on Saturday as well, so I'm going to

(50:46):
be hungover and just laying there watching sports all Sunday.
It's going to be a great, great weekend. So I
got my fingers crossed. Still a little bit concerned playing
Luca tomorrow, but we'll see how that goes.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I got a shout out Madeo's Brazilian Cavs fan
who wanted one of the Team Brazil shout out on
the pod. Dude, so many Brazilian Cavs fans. I think
we can thank Anderson Veris out for that. But while
you were being tortured in that Brazil Canada game, my
timeline was just full of gleeful calves Brazilians. So we

(51:20):
had a little bit of shout that out. But I'm
so glad that. I'm so glad I could make that
shout out without really bumming you out because you made it.
You made it, maybe I made it.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I am too, and I was hopeful I wasn't too
bitter when kind of lost to Brazil. We had some
Brazilian cast fans in our game threads in the discord
as well that were so sta with them. Yeah, so
you know it's we look at the downloads on this
podcast and it always blows my mind how many international
fans there are. So definitely big, big shout out to

(51:52):
them as well. World bow Free asks do you think
the Cavs offensive system takes advantage of their talent on
the roster, specifically Garland. They're always dead near dead last
in pace and three point shots attempted do you think
that changes this year? Carter? Where you at on this?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Uh? You know, I think I don't. I don't know, man,
because part of this is I do know JB likes
playing a defense for a style. He is not shedding
tears over the pace. I don't think, you know. I
think he likes that the Cavs plays slow. I think
he likes that their defense gets set. I think you

(52:30):
can tell when they start playing too fast and getting
a little out of control. It very much exasperates him. However,
I'm putting this one at old Darius and Donnie's feet. Uh,
you know, if these guys wanted to play fast, they
would play fast.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
They have the keys, they have so much you know,
sway in how that offense runs, and like, you know,
until they decide they they're gonna they're they're going to
attack and push. This is a Cavs team that was
fourth in transition of efficiency this past season. Now that's

(53:10):
because they only took easy transition opportunities. But like, they
have a team that should be capable of running, and
so I think, and then you know, so you look
at pace, and then you look at his other complaints.
Three point shots. I mean how many times have we said, Darius,
you got to shoot more, Darius, you got to shoot more.

(53:30):
You can't shoot six three pointers for thirty six. You
can't have Jetty Osmond shoot more three pointers per thirty
six than you so like to me, the three point
volume is a personal problem and in the years past
a personnel problem. So the Darius doesn't shoot enough, and
the Cavs didn't have any players that you wanted shooting like,

(53:52):
you know, like I remember just talking to my brother
about this, about how okay, if Darius takes six in
a game and Donovan takes eight, where you find it
the other you know, twenty if you want to get
up you know, like to get up to a reasonable
you know, thirty four to three point attempts, that's like

(54:12):
maybe league average, maybe slightly below league average in this
modern league. And like the road to that was really
hard to get to for the Calves. Now, now to
speak to Bo's like question, I think we'll learn a
lot about whether I'm right or not this year, because
if the Calves are still you know not, I think
with the roster they have, they should be a probably

(54:35):
top ten and three point attempts at minimum. Yep, so
if they're still not, if they're still you know, hovering
around twentyeth or lower, then I think it's probably time
to start suggesting that it is a coaching uh and
a philosophical choice. Yeah, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Yeah, I think you covered a lot of those bases. Well,
I think did the Cavs offensive system last year take
advantage of the talent on the roster? I would argue yes,
when you look at half court stats specifically, so taking
out all those easy transition opportunities, they were seventh in
half court offensive efficiency and they were doing that without

(55:14):
a lot of spacing on the floor. Right, A lot
of the metrics had them, as you know, among the
worst spacing, and a lot of it was you know
that those split cuts, those three man actions that they
run with the two guards and the bigs number one
inefficiency off of cuts as well number two in frequency
of those like those are all indicators in me to
me that you know, they were taking advantage and they

(55:36):
were generating quality looks despite not having a lot of spacing.
And one of the reasons that they were able to
do that was this was a team that was very
high in playmaking talent, whether it's Darius Garland, who I
think is one of the best playmakers in the game.
Donald Mitchell is a very good playmaker for a shooting guard.
Krislavert doesn't get enough credit, but he's a very talented

(55:57):
playmaker in the pick and roll, and I'm excited to
see It's going to be a good year for him run.
I'm really excited to see what he does with more spacing.
And I love that every Evan mobile workout video seems
to have Kris la vernon it. Those two seem to
be working out again a whole lot, so I'm excited
about that. So I do think, yes, they did a

(56:17):
good job maximizing the talent on there. They just didn't
have the personnel to play a lot of different styles.
And this is what I'll say, just because they took
advantage of the personnel that they had in the past
and really maximize that, that doesn't necessarily mean now that
we've added more movement shooters, now that we've added more

(56:39):
talent and we have more depth, automatically they're going to
take advantage of that talent, right Like that is still
something that everybody on this roster's got something improve and
that's one of the areas where JB has something to
prove that the offense can continue to evolve along with
the personnel. That's one of the biggest things you want
to see as a team grows and as a team

(56:59):
gets it's better. So that that's an unknown. I'm encouraged
because he's done it in the past, and I think,
you know, continuing to utilize mobilely in more creative ways
and taking advantage of his playmaking that that is something
that I'd like to continue to see more of. But
I got a couple transition stats Carter, because I found
this to be interesting. Cas were actually nineteenth when it

(57:21):
came to frequency of transition opportunities. So even though they're
like dead last in pace, they get out and run
a fair amount. There are seventeenth in transition opportunities off
of defensive rebounds, so when they secure that ball, they
get out and they actually pushed the pace a decent amount.
But twenty ninth in transition opportunities off of steals, and

(57:42):
the Gays were in the middle of the pack team
off of steals, but for whatever reason, they didn't seem
to really take advantage of those opportunities. Now, both of
those stats did improve as a Quorra wenter the starting lineup.
They went all the way up to sixteenth in transition
attempts overall when Akorra went into the starting lineup, up
from nineteenth. But this is one of those things where

(58:05):
I'm hopeful that the pace is going to increase because
I think the Kavs are going to take more threes.
When you look at the gap between them, you know,
dead last and pace and top ten, it's five more
possessions per game. And because the transition frequency was so high,
that tells me they're taking too much time in the
half court, right Like I think people think, Okay, the

(58:27):
Cavs are always walking the ball up the court, and
I'd like to see them push the pace more in
those spots, especially off of turnovers and stops. But you know,
sixteenth in transition frequency, like that means in order to
get that pace down, they are taking way too long
in the half court, so getting the ball, you know,
getting into your actions earlier in the shot clock, which

(58:47):
you correctly attributed to Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell in particular.
I think having guys like Max Strus and George Niang
that aren't afraid to take you know, late contested shots
or even contested shots or take pull ups in transition.
That's going to increase their pace. So I'm optimistic that'll
improve from there.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
This team is just so full of these interesting contradictions,
like like we're grumpy about how long they've taken a
half corporate There's seventh in points per possession and half
court offense. You know, we we hated the spacing and
thought that the three point volume wasn't good enough. There
were top ten offense in the regular season, So it's like,

(59:28):
you know, I'm having a hard time squaring away some
of these kind of like incongruities with also what we
saw in the postseason where kind of all of our
worst fears came true. So like, I don't think like,
like to your point, I think you made a really
good point that like, as the resources have changed, the
offense is leveled up. Look at the numbers year over year,

(59:52):
the offense gets less stinky, like it's it's found more
purpose and more rhythm every single year, and the and
the metrics back that up. So like, I think I'm
going to trust that they're going to keep leveling up
with their personnel. But you know, only time will tell.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, we're big big shout out to cleaning the glass
that you know, gives you kind of these detailed breakdowns
because otherwise, you know, things like transition frequency and stuff
like that, you're not going to find that on NBA
dot com. So so big shout out to them because
that looking that up to me and seeing okay, they're
middle of the pack when it comes to actually getting
out and running. If that's the case and your pace

(01:00:35):
is still low, that just screams you've got to speed
things up in the half court, which I think runs
a little counterintuitive to what people assume about the Cavs
offense and their style of play.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Yeah, it's a really really good point. Justin, we're getting
near the end of our time and I have to
skip ahead in the Q and A because Chris in
both on Twitter and the YouTube chat, has asked us
to power rank our top three favorite fruits. What would
your list be? Chris says, it'll start mango banana, Grandy

(01:01:08):
Smith apples feels like he has a good balance of
tasty on its own and slaps this an ingredient. Curious
to see where you both fall on the list. Justin,
we have to we have to reward and the YouTube
jat so come on, tell me your fruits, my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
So, just as a quick aside, asking top fruit makes
me think of a viral video of a Steve Harvey
impression that went around where he just loses his mind
being asked about the top fruit. And I just needed
to add that top fruit number one. I'm starting number one, Carter,
because you got to give the respect to it. I'm
going pineapple. I think pineapple is too sweet. It's there

(01:01:46):
on the back of my neck. No, no, no, get
some tahena on there, Carter, like you can. You could
cook the pineapple. You can eat it as is. I
think when it comes to reliability, pineapples about as good
as it is. Man, Well, what's your what's your number one?
Let's let's do countdown that way. It's starting top down.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Mango is the highest ceiling, highest floor fruit. No, it is,
it is. It is so tasty. It's a treat. You know,
you're not just gonna have it every day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
It's so inconsistent. Don't give me this. It gets stringy.
Sometimes you get the huge kids something.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
I'm worry about that now. But from a ceiling perspective,
from a ceiling perspective. I mean, talk about nectar of
the gods. Mango is my number one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
I agree with him. Bananas have to be in your
top three. I think bananas are just about as good
as they come. Blueberries. I struggle with man, because blueberries
are wildly inconsistent. I think when you talk about ceiling,
I love a blueberry, But man, every like you get
a handful, you got at least three grenades in there.

(01:02:56):
Blueberry has never made my day better. Oh man, it's
just sustenance, dude. I'm mixed some blueberries in my smoothies
in the morning. It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
I will say, is that in your top three?

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
No, I can't. I can't. I gotta give it a.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
High apple banana, and then where where are we?

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Apples are a good one. I'm going plump plumb is
going to give me the high end upside of blueberries
with a little more consistency. I like kind of the
sour crunchiness with it. Man, like I'm going plump.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Okay, I like it. I will join you on in
Bananatown banana. Talk about a high floor fruit. I mean,
when is a bit like you have to like it's
your fault. If you let a banana not be good,
you either you know, ate it when it was bright
green or like you know, dark brown. But like the
window for a good banana, it is enormous. And also

(01:03:57):
it is hand held. Baby, you don't got to a banana.
You can take it on the go, you can eat
it anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
And also like you can tell, you can tell from
the outside.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yes, you know, you know what you're about to bite into.
You never are going to be surprised by banana. And
as Chris notes in the chat, let it get old.
Make yourself some banana bread. Yeah, also great and smoothies
gets a lot of credit for that. So I think
banana has to be on my list for my third
You know, I was torn in a lot of different directions,

(01:04:30):
like a fresh raspberry or a BlackBerry. I love the
crunch of a BlackBerry. But you know, I'm going to
join our boy Ben in the chat and say, strawberries, man,
I was going to guess, I just love a great
like I think strawberries are such a bummer when they're

(01:04:53):
not great, But when they're great, they're so so good,
they're so good, they're so and I don't know about you,
I like them on the earlier side of the ripe cycle.
I like it. I like crunch and less sweet. Like
sometimes they get so like once you're once they're like
bright red.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
They're gonna soggy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
They get soggy and they get very sweet, and they
they just kind of set my teeth a little bit
with with the the amount of sugar I'm taking in.
So yeah, give me, give me the crunch, give me
the strawberries. So final answer mango, banana, strawberry. Uh King
Clear ninety nine just jumped in the jet and said,
what did I just turn on? And the answer is

(01:05:35):
the end of a podcast for Talk Baby.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Do you do you want to answer one more?

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
But before Yeah, let's let's end on a Caves note. Chris,
thanks for sending the question, Thanks for her answer, for
for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah, let's let's end on a cas not for anyone
that just tuned in now. Jesse asks what early memory
of watching the Caves turn you into diehard fan or
was it just little bits over time? Carter?

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
You go find uh to me it was Ron's twenty
nine out of thirty against the Pistons. That was like
I just remember, like I only kind of was watching him.
You know, like I was watching basketball like a kid
watches basketball up to that point. You know, I turn
it on. I wasn't really thinking about the game. I

(01:06:19):
just like enjoyed it like at a distance. That game
was when I like became a true diehard fan and
really started trying to like, you know, understand what I
was watching, contextualize what I was watching because it was
such a special moment. And then you know, the Booby
Gibson game happens right after, and and those two games

(01:06:40):
were like, like I mean, talk about you know, something
that will radicalize you as a fan. So those were
my moments.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Yeah, it's boring, it's the same one for me. I
remember betting with my buddy Joey that lived just down
the street. He was a big Pistons fan. I like
the Pistons too, but I was like, you know what,
I'm taking the other side of this one and Lebron
doing what he did there, and like you said, the
Booby game after that was so much fun. And then
what really fully radicalized me and made me a die

(01:07:10):
hard cast fan was the decision really, because that's when
you know, my experiences as a Winnipeg sports fan really
aligned with the Cleveland sports fan heartbreak and just never
looked back since, and you know, it just continues to
go grow stronger. So those those are probably the two
that that really aligned for me and Man, I got

(01:07:31):
I got a mit Car. I'm I'm having a lot
of fun so far in this Cast era, Like I'm,
I'm already developing quite a few really fond memories that
I feel are going to be core Cast fan memories
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Absolutely, Buddy, it's uh, it's a fun team to roof
for for sure, even even when they're messy. It's been
a weirdly normal couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Yeah, I like the stability. The stability is nice. It's
all the fun without uh, without as much pain.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Yeah, big, big, big shout out to the Cast for
navigating these waters, for turning things around so quickly after
the cupboard was empty from that lebron era and the
four Finals runs. It's been really impressive. It's been a
lot of fun. Big thanks to everyone that submitted questions
for this podcast. A couple we didn't get to, but
I feel like we kind of got to them in
a roundabout way. Like DH had asked about how the

(01:08:21):
offense can evolve to better prepare for the playoffs, which
a lot of that comes down to, you know, getting
more guys involved, more awful action, continuing to use mobilely
more as a playmaker, and also how Niang can help you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Sneaking to an extra answer.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Here, No, no, no, I'm just saying I'm acknowledging those
questions that we can fully get to by saying I
think we got to them in a roundabout way. So sorry, Carter,
I know it's getting a little bit late. Big thanks
to everyone that tuned in live on YouTube. Big thanks
to everyone that submitted questions. Make sure you like to
subscribe click notification bell so no one were going only
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(01:09:03):
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