February 26, 2025 • 35 mins
Navigating the stormy seas of high-conflict co-parenting is no easy feat, and today I have Marisol sharing her compelling journey. Imagine juggling not one, but two custody and child support cases, all while facing the emotional upheaval of multiple court hearings and even bankruptcy. Marisol's story is a testament to resilience, offering listeners a raw glimpse into the challenges of dealing with high-conflict co-parents and the emotional toll such situations take on both parents and children.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the heart-wrenching realities of domestic violence and its impact on custody arrangements, especially during sensitive times like holidays. Marisol opens up about the struggle to prioritize her children's needs over lingering resentment, a challenge many in similar situations will resonate with. We explore the often toxic dynamics where manipulation and abuse make cooperation seem impossible, and Marisol bravely discusses personal experiences of verbal abuse and stigma, highlighting the emotional distress it caused for her children.
We wrap up with empowering strategies for co-parents to focus on their children's futures amidst adversity. Marisol shares invaluable insights on navigating these difficult dynamics, emphasizing the importance of strategic decision-making to create a nurturing environment. Join us for this eye-opening episode as we uncover ways to safeguard relationships with children, offering hope and guidance for those tackling the complexities of high-conflict co-parenting.
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/marisolvasquezofficial/
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1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
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Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey Marisol.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I'm happy to be here.
You have a strong social mediapresence on co-parenting, and
high-conflict co-parentingspecifically.
So before we get into all thedetails of that, do you mind
just giving a background on howyou got started into that?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So I got started because of my own personal
experience.
I have two kids with twodifferent dads and at some point
I managed two child custodycases and two child support
cases.
My longest custody battle wasactually for my daughter.
It lasted almost a decade.
So a lot of my experience comesfrom my own.
You know ways of having tosurvive, live and still have
(00:42):
dreams somehow.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So a decade.
So that means that these werehappening at some point at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yes, I actually had to manage.
One of the worst months I everhad was in 2011,.
Back in November, I think itwas, I actually had four court
hearings in one month.
Two, I believe, were for one ex, one was for the other and then
the last one was for bankruptcy.
Oh my goodness, my court caseswere actually in three different
(01:11):
courts, so I actually attendedthree different courthouses that
I had to learn how to navigateduring that time of my life.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, just going into a courthouse on its own for
something simple is intimidatingenough, but that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, I actually have a very weird story where I was
trying to get some evidencebecause I was being accused of
something.
I forgot which accusation I wasbeing accused of at this point,
because my daughter's fatheraccused me of a lot of things.
So I was trying to portray howmuch we were constantly in court
and how he was, you know, beingoverly litigious.
(01:47):
And I went to the courthousethat our you know that our court
case was at and I went into therecords department looking for
my, my court case, because Iwanted to see what they had not
necessarily what I had, but whatthey had on file.
Right, I was looking forsomething and then the court
clerk tells me your file's nothere.
(02:08):
It's actually across the streetin the basement because it's so
large.
At that time I had a baby, myson was a baby and I had a
stroller with me.
So I crossed the street and Iwent to the archives right to go
get the custody case.
And when I went down there Iactually had to go to the
(02:29):
basement.
There was hardly any securitydown there.
There was no cameras, it was sodingy looking, it was dark, I
wasn't even sure what was downthere.
But eventually I found theoffice with the staff in it and
they handed me and I was able tocheck out my large court case.
That's insane.
It was very, very insane.
(02:49):
Yeah, it was like a wholesurreal experience that I still
wonder how we survived it.
However, I do have a lot ofinsight and tips on how to
safeguard your relationship withyour kids, Because while you're
going through this, your kid'schildhood is actually still
moving forward, you know.
So that's what I focused on,even though it was very
(03:10):
difficult for me and it wasespecially difficult for my
daughter.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I imagine so, and that's mainly the reason why
there is some high conflictco-parenting issues is because
it's almost like one parent hasthe children's best interest in
mind and the other one does not.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, I learned the hard way that if you're going to
be dealing with a high conflictco-parent you're going to.
You're unfortunately going tohave different agendas.
You're typically not going tohave the same version of what
parenting, healthy parentinglooks like, even semi-healthy.
You know cause?
Not, I don't think parenting isperfect at all.
I think we're all evolving asparents, like you know.
(03:48):
It's okay for you to figure outthat maybe what you were doing
a year ago wasn't workingbecause maybe now your kid's
telling you hey, mom, I don'tlike that, you know, and you can
change it.
You know what I mean.
So we're always evolving asparents.
So, in terms of high conflictco-parenting, that parent the
one that's truly high conflictthey're really not going to have
(04:09):
the same agenda as you and alsothat agenda and that mindset
will hit the courtroom andthat's why it becomes so high
conflict, because they have adifferent mentality on what they
want.
Usually what they want iscontrol and to win.
And from my experience, all theyears that I've been through,
with all the court hearings thatI've gone through as well for
both of my children, I'm goingto tell you that there's no
(04:31):
winning in court hearings forcustody or even child support.
It takes a lot.
It takes a lot from you as aperson, and it also takes a lot
from the kids too.
So even if you do walk awaywith something, there's
something at some point that youlost to even get that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh, totally.
And I mean, when you come froma domestic violence relationship
and then you have to co-parentafterward, like you mentioned,
it's that control.
They still use whatever tactics, even in certain cases using
the children as pawns ormanipulating the children, to
maintain that control over you,yes, and then eventually also
(05:09):
over the children.
They kind of turn into theirvictims as well.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, that's a different component of that.
It's so much to unpack there,but, yes, so my daughter's
father actually ended up leavingme for her stepmom, and what
was interesting about oursituation is that right off the
bat, they both got this reallyweird drive to really hate me,
as if I had done something wrongto them, even though he
(05:34):
actually was the one who walkedaway with her.
With time I learned to becomfortable with some of the
dynamic of it, just because mydaughter grew to really love her
, some of the dynamic of it, youknow, just because my daughter
grew to really love her.
But in essence, all of thatactually ended up hitting the
courtroom too.
You know the drama thatsurrounded that never let up,
(05:56):
you know, and it's to the pointthat it started affecting
different aspects of our lives,you know.
So, having been part of thatcustody case, it their behavior
was so detrimental that itactually, you know, was at her
school, it was in her homework,it was a doctor's appointments
you know what I mean.
Like in their brain, I cannever do anything.
(06:17):
Right to the point that wecouldn't even share a doctor.
They insisted on going to aseparate doctor because they had
embedded that doctor.
So they had to move my kid toanother doctor.
Same thing for dentists.
Dentists were a problem too,then emergency contacts that was
a problem too.
So it was like constant battlesfor even the smallest things
(06:37):
that you can ever think of.
It essentially is a systematicinfiltration of your life.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right, and one that you can't escape because your
child's tied to you yeah, andyou can't.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And when you tell that to the courts, it sounds
like you're the one that's beingnaggy and complaining, because
you know you sound like you'rethe crazy one, you know.
And, essentially, as mydaughter got older, I realized
that they were weaponizing mydaughter against me.
They weaponized my child yeah,of course.
Yeah, that's a harsh reality torealize, because it's like how
(07:13):
can a parent want to do that?
You know what I mean.
You're over here trying toraise your child and you're like
okay, well, you left me.
Fine, you're not here anymore.
I accepted that.
Now you're with this person andyou're making this new life.
Fine.
Then why are you still after me?
Right, just let me go Right.
Parenting is already hardenough, then, to add the dynamic
(07:36):
of high conflict co-parenting,right, and even that sentence,
high conflict co-parenting eventhat within itself is a bit of
an oxymoron, because youactually cannot fully parent
with a high conflictco-parenting.
Even that within itself is abit of an oxymoron, because you
actually cannot fully parentwith a high conflict co-parent.
You're constantly countering,you're constantly countering,
and I called it DC.
I was constantly on damagecontrol.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right.
It's almost like you can'tprogress with your children
because you're having to undoall the bad things, right?
So you have your personalexperience with this, but then
you also have a professionalbackground that helps you
understand these situations.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I mean, I have a master's degree in criminal
justice.
I'm not really sure thereprobably is some tied, you know,
transferable skills to it.
You know I'm not going to, youknow, sit here and say that I'm
like a mental health counselor,because I'm not.
I don't know, I'm not a mentalhealth professional.
I'm also not an attorney or alegal professional.
You know I do have thatmaster's.
You know, when I got that backwhen I was younger, it is
(08:43):
transferable in terms of, like,the way that I think and how to
defend myself.
When I was in court, my excouldn't pay child support, but
he did hire attorneys.
So, you know, I did end uphiring two at some point.
And you know, there's only somuch that you can do as a single
mom because you're you're beingtargeted in so many ways
(09:04):
emotionally, legally,financially.
You know, um, I mean some.
At some point it was targetingmy spiritual side too, where I'm
like, how is this happening tome?
Like you know what I mean.
Like I'm not a bad person.
Why are they coming at me sohard, you know?
So, yeah, I do have somebackground, but I wouldn't.
You know, I don't want to beoverstating what I do have.
(09:25):
You know I also do have.
I'm also certified in naturalhealth as a natural health
professional from the TrinitySchool of Natural Health, and I
only got that certificationbecause with a lot of high
conflict comes health conditions, health issues, you know,
because you're constantly onhigh cortisol levels so you're
stressed out and that ended upaffecting my body.
(09:46):
So I I do have an autoimmunecondition that I um that I take
care of on my own.
Um, sometimes I do bring in uman outside party to help me if I
get stuck, but most of the timeI have learned enough now about
natural healing modalities tobe able to um basically take
care of myself, uh, myself, to,you know, mentally and even
(10:07):
physically.
I don't believe in meds, youknow.
If people do, that's theirprerogative, but I basically
manage my conditions naturally.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
There are so many things that obviously go into
this.
I mean, there are like 10different avenues that we could
take this episode.
I'm like that was a lot right,yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So, my journey has been like very unique, very
unique and also very eclectic inthe way where I'm at now.
It's nowhere where I thought Iwould be.
You know some pros, some cons,the court hearings that
eventually did end, but theaftermath of it it's still there
.
It's still there.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It doesn't die off.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
No, and I even think that once your children are
beyond school age and you think,okay, we're done and there's
not that necessary co-parenting,that needs to happen because
you know they're technicallyadults now but you still have
there's graduations, there'sgrandbabies, there's weddings
and all sorts of differentthings that you're still going
(11:10):
to have to interact with thatother person.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, there is, but it just depends on the
comfortability of your child andwhat they want to do and how
they.
One of the hardest things thatI had to learn is that,
regardless of what my exes havedone, my kids' dads, my child
has the right to select how theywant to proceed with their
(11:35):
relationship with their father.
Um, um, irrelevant to my ownexperience, irrelevant to what
they've put me through, whatthey've left me hanging on, what
they've neglected, you know, um, because the child has their
own experience, because that istheir father, and I'm not saying
that they have to talk to them.
You know, some people will dothe whole like forceful thing,
(11:55):
or you must talk to them becausehe's your dad.
That's not the approach I take.
I take more of the approach ofwell, go explore it, go figure
it out, and if you want to go,no contact.
Or if you want to limit yourcontact, those do exist If you
need to do that.
That's kind of what I.
I'm more of a background actornow for my kids.
I'm not really front and centerwhen it comes to that, because
(12:17):
now they can actually speak forthemselves.
They have their own values,they have their own perspectives
.
So I try my best, even thoughit's hard, you know, cause mama
got opinions too.
So, um, I try my best to justbe supportive, even if I don't
agree with it.
It is my childhood journey andit is a difficult journey, and
if they need support, I am there, you know.
(12:39):
I am there to just provide that, you know, because it is a hard
thing to stomach that yourother parent, you know, is what
they are.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And that's a testament to how much that you
have healed and matured throughthe process, because I imagine
it would be difficult toco-parent with somebody that you
loathe, you know, and not toimpart your own personal bias
onto your kids.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Like, hey, you know that parent's the bad guy, right
, right, and you know you'reright.
There is a level of dislikethat I do still have sometimes,
but it's not to the point that Iused to have when I was still
in it.
So, whoever's listening to this, my current journey might be
different in how I feel nowbecause, see, I'm already a
little bit away from it.
So if you're still in it,you're probably going to still
(13:32):
feel those normal feelings ofhate.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I sound like I'm at peace at it because I'm already
on my way out, right, right,well, and almost betrayal too,
like if you get your kids andthey're like, oh, I want to go
back over to mommy or daddy'shouse.
I miss mommy or daddy.
You know the other parent.
You're almost thinking like,but what about me?
Like, why aren't I?
Oh, girl.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yes, so we actually had that situation happen on, uh
, for Christmas, and Christmasfor us was very different.
We actually have traditionswith my that I created with my
children.
You know, um, every, everyDecember, we do family pictures.
That that's not necessarilywhat happened this December.
We're still trying to figureout how to do the holidays,
(14:17):
especially because now I liveout of state and my daughter
lives in a different state, andthen my son's with me, and then
his dad lives somewhere else too.
He doesn't live in the samestate, so we're all in three
different states, so Christmaslooks very different.
I truly do not mind sharing.
That's one thing that I noticedthat as I grew in my mentality
and I haven't always been thisway, okay, it took a lot of
(14:38):
growth, okay so as I grew Irealized that, yes, I'm sad and
I actually did cry when my sondecided to go with his dad.
I cried a lot because it'sreally hard to let go of your
kids because, you know, assingle moms, they literally
become our world.
But then there's a certainlevel of like letting go that
(15:01):
you have.
That has to happen becausethat's a natural way of things,
where they they should be ableto, you know, have autonomy and
individuate from us.
You know, um, to be separatefrom us, but that's still hard,
you know, cause we're attachedto them.
So, um, my son ended up goingwith his dad for two weeks, um,
for, uh, christmas, you know,and that was nowhere near me, it
was like hundreds of miles awayfrom me.
(15:21):
You know, and um, I talk in oneof my videos that I made on my
Instagram account, that we, asmoms you know, protective,
supportive moms we end up doingthings that are more like in the
truly, more in the bestinterest of our child than even
the courts sometimes.
You know, because we know weknow more.
(15:42):
You know, even if it hurts you,you will end up doing things
for your kid that you see, thatmaybe your kid needs, even if it
breaks your heart.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, and that's, oh my gosh gosh.
The emotional part is hard tolet your kids go like graduate
high school and they're goingoff to start their own life and
everything's healthy andeverybody gets along.
That's hard enough.
But then when they go tosomebody else that you don't get
along with and or that doesn'tlike you, that doesn't like you,
we're going to use a strongword hates you they get along
(16:13):
with, or that doesn't like you.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That doesn't like you , we're going to use a strong
word hates you, they might hateyou.
You mentioned load.
Then you know I actuallystopped.
I would say I stopped hatingthem a while back, but it took a
lot of work, like I mentionedearlier, and I still do, you
know, kind of have my momentswhere I don't like them very
much, but at the same time, Ikeep in my mind something that I
(16:34):
talked that I that I kind oftry to stay with, which is to
love my kids more than I hate myex.
I don't know if you've everheard that and I actually made a
little bit of a segment on itlast year love your kids more
than you hate your ex.
And actually that even applieseven to men.
If they're going through, likea toxic, you know a relationship
with their, you know with their.
You know mothers with theirkids moms, you know, because
(16:57):
it's not necessarily exclusiveto gender.
You know the level of toxicitythat one can be put through, you
know.
So I focus on that, you know.
And then, now that my kids gotolder, they're actually able to
voice to me, like their needsand what they would like and
their desires, and I'm justsitting here trying to figure
out like okay, how can I makethis decision that best fits my
(17:19):
child's needs.
You know what I mean, likeoutside of whatever court
stuff's happening, you know.
And but, mind you, I amspeaking from a different
perspective because now we don'treally have an operational
court order for my son and myson chooses when to go with his
dad.
And also the court order for mydaughter did end too, and I
kind of wanted just to betransparent about that because
(17:41):
my perspective is differentbecause of the fact that I'm at
the tail end and also you dooperate differently when you're
still in it, you do.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh for sure, Especially when you're fresh out
of the relationship.
So obviously, this is a podcastbased on domestic violence.
So you're coming out of adomestic violence situation and
whatever the details of that is,you are freshly out of it,
you're hurting, you're grieving,oh, 100%.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And you're pissed, and you're pissed, and on top of
that, they don't want to payyou.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh my goodness, oh, my gosh, right, really, we are
going to go in 10,000 differentdirections here, but so just a
quick, before we get too farinto other things can you give a
definition of high conflictco-parentings, just so that
everybody's on the sameunderstanding level of what
we're talking about before we godown these 20 paths that we've
(18:36):
already created?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
We probably need more segments so high, complex
co-parenting the best way that Ican describe it would be when
there's two parents who have notbeen separated or divorced and
they're having a difficult timeagreeing on things and usually
it's stemming from the lack ofmaturity from one of them and
then they start usingmanipulative tactics.
(18:58):
They can start using lies, theycan start using intimidation.
They can also start omittinginformation that you would need
to have at some point, that youneed as the other parent.
There's just a list of.
There's also gaslighting too,so it just really depends.
I don't typically use the wordnarcissist because it gets
(19:19):
thrown around a lot.
I know what I've experienced,but I do know that at least one
of them is a narcissist.
I don't have official diagnosis, you know, but what I went
through was definitely one washarder than the other, but they
both were hard in their own way.
So the best way to describe thehigh conflict co-parenting is
(19:39):
basically two people that aretrying to make the best out of
co-parenting and one of them ismaking it extremely difficult
and, if anything, they're highlylitigious.
That's even one component too,because that's actually
different components, becausewhenever they're doing one thing
, they're actually doingseparate things too.
So it's basically like amulti-prong system of how
(20:00):
they're going to just basicallytry to decimate you and try to
not really co-parent.
If anything, they're justtrying to destroy your
relationship with your child.
Now, there's different levels ofit, you know what I mean.
Like some of them are nicerthan others, you know, um, but
it just at its core, they'rejust making co-parenting a lot
more difficult than it should be, you know, and just making
(20:21):
decisions hard.
You know, like you can neverdecide on anything, you know, or
even if you, or if you proposesomething, you know, your ideas
are just never good enough, youknow, um.
Or?
Or if you're parenting,something's wrong with your
parenting at every step of theway.
You know, I was constantlybashed for my parenting
throughout the entire 10 yearsand a lot of it.
(20:41):
He kind of weaponized mybackground.
I have a background in nothaving a good family dynamic.
I have a toxic family dynamicwith my biological family, so I
didn't really have a mom and Ialso didn't have a dad.
So he weaponized that in courtand made it seem like I was not
going to be a capable mombecause I didn't know what a
(21:03):
family was according to him andhis wife.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
So they just continue to use the abusive tactics that
they've been using the wholetime.
Sometimes it's systematic.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You won't even know if it's even happening until
you're realizing like thisdoesn't sound right.
And now there's moreinformation out there of it.
There's a vast amount ofinformation.
I'm super surprised how muchthere is.
Back when I was in it, I don'tremember being this much like
you know, awareness of it,because even at some point I
felt like I was the crazy one,because they told me I was the
(21:39):
crazy one, and then you're goingto court and court's telling
you no, that's not happening.
You need to co-parent better.
You know what I mean.
Like you chose him, so whyaren't you co-parenting with him
?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Oh, I love that one.
You chose him yes.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh, I love that one.
You chose him, yes, yeah, orlike because I have two kids
with two different dads.
Right, I got the whole.
Well, how come you can't keep aman?
That's nice, let's kick youwhile you're down.
(22:14):
And as I got older and I also,you know, grew and I did a lot
of personal development Irealized how a lot of that you
know it did stem from some ofthe patterns that I needed to
heal in my own personal life.
But a lot of that is a lot ofshifting ideology.
That's not making the otherperson accountable.
So you know people are going tohave really judgy comments,
especially when you have twokids from two different dads
(22:35):
that look that, do not look thesame.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right and then, like you mentioned, one of your exes
remarried.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So now you're not even having of the experiences
that I've had too, where, likeyou know, he even went for the
(23:06):
whole like well, we have atraditional family environment
and she's a single mom and youknow, I think at one point he
even like I had never beencalled a feminist and he called
me a feminist.
I even had to Google it becauseI'm like, what does that mean,
you know?
And I forgot what Google toldme and I'm just like maybe I am
(23:27):
that, I don't know, but he wouldcall me all kinds of names.
You know he, there was a lot ofname calling.
You know that that still stayedwith me.
That stayed with me and itactually not only did it stay
with me, it actually kept mefrom doing what I'm doing now
for a very long time, because hewas very, very verbally abusive
.
Well, and it doesn't just havean impact on you, it has an
impact on the kids too, becauseWell, luckily we only had one
(23:51):
child together and it did makean impact on my daughter, you
know, in terms of she spent mostof her life hearing really bad,
just hearing me being bashed,yeah, so I which go ahead.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, you look at so a kid has two like role models.
They have multiple role models,but the two people that they
put on pedestals are mom and dad, yeah, or you know, whatever
the family dynamic is, they'reparents or two parents, and when
you have one parent who theyidolize is speaking poorly about
(24:27):
the other parent whom they alsoidolize, they then become
confused, like which one's thebad guy?
Is one of them the bad guy?
And is there something wrongwith me for thinking they're
good and they're good?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It is a very confusing dynamic and that's
exactly what happened with mydaughter, you know, um, she was
always wondering like what, whowas, who was right?
You know, as she got older shekind of was able to have more
discernment, but there was,there was things that I had to
do to be able to help herthrough it, you know, to support
it through it.
When the courts, pretty muchthey failed in the way where my
(25:05):
dad's right to get visitation orcustody superseded the rights
of my daughter's, like basichuman rights, you know.
So that's what I realized, asit was, you know, kind of ending
and I think I realized that Iwasn't going to be helped.
You know, one of the worstquotes I remember from one of
(25:27):
the judges was telling us whenwe were in front of him and he
just said this case has reacheda point of no return.
And I just remember thinking tomyself okay, so then you can't
fix this, then who can Right?
You know, and then in themiddle of that, you know my
daughter's childhood still justmoving forward day by day, you
know, and I know a lot of us, alot of us who are caught up in
(25:49):
these situations we end up doingthis bittersweet struggle of
like counting down the days whenyour kid turns 18, but then
it's bittersweet because thenyou realize that, yes, the court
order's over, but then at thesame time your child's childhood
is over too.
So when it was happening withmy daughter, I went through
(26:10):
immense levels of grief tryingto figure out how to navigate
that, because it was ending, butthen at the same time so was
her childhood the same time, sowas her childhood.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Well, and it's hard too, because you want to foster
a good relationship with yourkids and have good, effective
communication, but then you alsodon't want to add to the
toxicity of the relationship bybad-mouthing the other parent.
So that's a difficult situationto navigate through.
You want them to be able tolike let's talk about what
you're thinking or what you'refeeling, but then like it's just
(26:46):
tough.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So I um, there were, there was a lot of things that I
did that I don't like in termsof how I handled the beginnings
of it.
You know, towards the end of it, I did have some more of a
strategic thinking.
I ended up checking out books,you know.
I was in therapy.
I ended up taking angermanagement classes because, you
know, there was a lot of thingsbeing said about me, but not
(27:09):
only were they not true, it wasreally hard to hear my daughter
verbalize them, you know.
So I worked with her at home.
Primarily, I worked with her athome, but that was hard.
That was hard because that'snot necessarily how I envisioned
being a parent.
You know what I mean.
Like you're just counteringwhat someone else is doing, you
(27:32):
know, and then you're wonderingam I doing more damage by
countering them?
You know, like, and then youknow, and then you have your own
hangups too, where, like youknow where you have your own
traumas from your own childhoodthat come into play in how you
parent.
And then you add this toxicdynamic to a high conflict
co-parenting and it just feelslike a hot mess.
It literally feels never ending.
(27:55):
Until I think about 2018 is whenI realized that this stuff was
about to end, that this stuffwas about to end and I had to
change things and one of themain changing factors that
really shifted things and movedthe needle I ended up doing
something unorthodox that Iwouldn't say I recommend it.
I was just more ready for itbecause at that time I was
(28:18):
building a different business tosupport me and my kids, because
there was hardly any childsupport coming in from any of my
exes, and I learned that Ineeded to move forward in a
different way and I canceled thechild support payment from my
daughter's dad because he washolding it over our heads and I
(28:40):
got tired of hearing himthinking that I was getting rich
from the $230 something he wassending and I had already been
working on building a business.
So I just worked my buns off tobuild something.
That way we didn't have to relyon that money and you know a
(29:01):
lot of us out here we're justdoing things that will help us
survive through these terrible,terrible situations, you know.
So that's why I lead withunorthodox and I wouldn't
recommend it, because I'm notsaying, you know, listeners, go
out there and cancel your childsupport payments, because a lot
of women need these payments.
You know what I mean Like, andit's also a child's right to be
(29:22):
supported.
But the question then lies whathappens if the other co-parent,
so to speak, is not leveragingtheir, is not weaponizing child
support?
What happens then?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Right, well, and like you mentioned, this whole high
conflict, parenting is all basedon control and being able to
maintain control.
So then now, if you take awaythe piece that they're using as
their control piece, then youjust took away their power,
correct?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So once I did that, that's actually what moved a lot
of the needle, and I'm notready to talk about the rest of
the components, but it was.
It definitely moved things andmy whole thing, that whole time
I went through that court case,was to help my daughter have a
life that she can choose from.
(30:14):
And I can tell you the reasonI'm telling and wording it this
way was because when I was in itI had joined several groups
that pertain to my situation andI was watching women on there
posting about their 20 somethingyear old child still being
controlled by their father, whowas narcissistic and high
conflict when they were younger.
(30:35):
And I'm looking at this and I'mlike, oh, that's not happening
to my kid.
So I set a bunch of things inmotion that took a while.
I planted seeds and it took awhile for them to be some type
of you know gets gained, somebenefit for my daughter, and
they weren't perfect.
(30:55):
You know I made a lot ofmistakes along the way.
That I still.
You know I acknowledge it and Ialso validate my daughter in
terms of what I the parts thatmaybe weren't the greatest of
ideas that have affected her.
You know, I acknowledge it andI also validate my daughter in
terms of what I the parts thatmaybe weren't the greatest of
ideas that have affected her,you know, but I I had to.
I felt like I had to do what Ineeded to do to be able to
safeguard my daughter's startinto her adulthood.
That way she has independence,she has autonomy and she can
(31:18):
live a life that she sees fit,even if I don't agree with it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Does that control carry on from that high conflict
parent into their adulthood andaffect their future
relationships and theirself-image and all sorts of
things?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right, right, oh, 100%.
So I saw that and once Irealized that typically someone
that's high conflict we'll justcall them high conflict just for
purposes of keeping it simplethey don't have foresight, they
can't see into, like, and thereason I saw this was because I
(32:10):
noticed that my ex couldn't seelife after court order.
He only saw within theframework and his perspective of
what he was currentlycontrolling, because he did have
some control, you know, but hecouldn't, he like, he couldn't
see.
Thereafter, once you see thatand you can kind of capitalize
(32:31):
on what they can't see, you canactually change it for the
betterment of your child,because our job, even if they're
, you know, we're raising them.
You're eventually raising anadult, not necessarily a child,
right?
So I capitalize on his lack offoresight to be able to release
my daughter from his grip.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay so, marisol, I think this is a good stopping
point for right now, becausewe've discussed the features of
co-parenting and I think maybewe should do another episode
that goes over how to navigatethe co-parenting issues
successfully.
Okay, okay, all right, so Iwill.
We'll be back next week withyour second episode, perfect.
Hey Marisol.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I'm happy to be here.
You have a strong social mediapresence on co-parenting, and
high-conflict co-parentingspecifically.
So before we get into all thedetails of that, do you mind
just giving a background on howyou got started into that?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So I got started because of my own personal
experience.
I have two kids with twodifferent dads and at some point
I managed two child custodycases and two child support
cases.
My longest custody battle wasactually for my daughter.
It lasted almost a decade.
So a lot of my experience comesfrom my own.
You know ways of having tosurvive, live and still have
(00:42):
dreams somehow.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So a decade.
So that means that these werehappening at some point at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yes, I actually had to manage.
One of the worst months I everhad was in 2011,.
Back in November, I think itwas, I actually had four court
hearings in one month.
Two, I believe, were for one ex, one was for the other and then
the last one was for bankruptcy.
Oh my goodness, my court caseswere actually in three different
(01:11):
courts, so I actually attendedthree different courthouses that
I had to learn how to navigateduring that time of my life.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, just going into a courthouse on its own for
something simple is intimidatingenough, but that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, I actually have a very weird story where I was
trying to get some evidencebecause I was being accused of
something.
I forgot which accusation I wasbeing accused of at this point,
because my daughter's fatheraccused me of a lot of things.
So I was trying to portray howmuch we were constantly in court
and how he was, you know, beingoverly litigious.
(01:47):
And I went to the courthousethat our you know that our court
case was at and I went into therecords department looking for
my, my court case, because Iwanted to see what they had not
necessarily what I had, but whatthey had on file.
Right, I was looking forsomething and then the court
clerk tells me your file's nothere.
(02:08):
It's actually across the streetin the basement because it's so
large.
At that time I had a baby, myson was a baby and I had a
stroller with me.
So I crossed the street and Iwent to the archives right to go
get the custody case.
And when I went down there Iactually had to go to the
(02:29):
basement.
There was hardly any securitydown there.
There was no cameras, it was sodingy looking, it was dark, I
wasn't even sure what was downthere.
But eventually I found theoffice with the staff in it and
they handed me and I was able tocheck out my large court case.
That's insane.
It was very, very insane.
(02:49):
Yeah, it was like a wholesurreal experience that I still
wonder how we survived it.
However, I do have a lot ofinsight and tips on how to
safeguard your relationship withyour kids, Because while you're
going through this, your kid'schildhood is actually still
moving forward, you know.
So that's what I focused on,even though it was very
(03:10):
difficult for me and it wasespecially difficult for my
daughter.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I imagine so, and that's mainly the reason why
there is some high conflictco-parenting issues is because
it's almost like one parent hasthe children's best interest in
mind and the other one does not.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, I learned the hard way that if you're going to
be dealing with a high conflictco-parent you're going to.
You're unfortunately going tohave different agendas.
You're typically not going tohave the same version of what
parenting, healthy parentinglooks like, even semi-healthy.
You know cause?
Not, I don't think parenting isperfect at all.
I think we're all evolving asparents, like you know.
(03:48):
It's okay for you to figure outthat maybe what you were doing
a year ago wasn't workingbecause maybe now your kid's
telling you hey, mom, I don'tlike that, you know, and you can
change it.
You know what I mean.
So we're always evolving asparents.
So, in terms of high conflictco-parenting, that parent the
one that's truly high conflictthey're really not going to have
(04:09):
the same agenda as you and alsothat agenda and that mindset
will hit the courtroom andthat's why it becomes so high
conflict, because they have adifferent mentality on what they
want.
Usually what they want iscontrol and to win.
And from my experience, all theyears that I've been through,
with all the court hearings thatI've gone through as well for
both of my children, I'm goingto tell you that there's no
(04:31):
winning in court hearings forcustody or even child support.
It takes a lot.
It takes a lot from you as aperson, and it also takes a lot
from the kids too.
So even if you do walk awaywith something, there's
something at some point that youlost to even get that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh, totally.
And I mean, when you come froma domestic violence relationship
and then you have to co-parentafterward, like you mentioned,
it's that control.
They still use whatever tactics, even in certain cases using
the children as pawns ormanipulating the children, to
maintain that control over you,yes, and then eventually also
(05:09):
over the children.
They kind of turn into theirvictims as well.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, that's a different component of that.
It's so much to unpack there,but, yes, so my daughter's
father actually ended up leavingme for her stepmom, and what
was interesting about oursituation is that right off the
bat, they both got this reallyweird drive to really hate me,
as if I had done something wrongto them, even though he
(05:34):
actually was the one who walkedaway with her.
With time I learned to becomfortable with some of the
dynamic of it, just because mydaughter grew to really love her
, some of the dynamic of it, youknow, just because my daughter
grew to really love her.
But in essence, all of thatactually ended up hitting the
courtroom too.
You know the drama thatsurrounded that never let up,
(05:56):
you know, and it's to the pointthat it started affecting
different aspects of our lives,you know.
So, having been part of thatcustody case, it their behavior
was so detrimental that itactually, you know, was at her
school, it was in her homework,it was a doctor's appointments
you know what I mean.
Like in their brain, I cannever do anything.
(06:17):
Right to the point that wecouldn't even share a doctor.
They insisted on going to aseparate doctor because they had
embedded that doctor.
So they had to move my kid toanother doctor.
Same thing for dentists.
Dentists were a problem too,then emergency contacts that was
a problem too.
So it was like constant battlesfor even the smallest things
(06:37):
that you can ever think of.
It essentially is a systematicinfiltration of your life.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right, and one that you can't escape because your
child's tied to you yeah, andyou can't.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And when you tell that to the courts, it sounds
like you're the one that's beingnaggy and complaining, because
you know you sound like you'rethe crazy one, you know.
And, essentially, as mydaughter got older, I realized
that they were weaponizing mydaughter against me.
They weaponized my child yeah,of course.
Yeah, that's a harsh reality torealize, because it's like how
(07:13):
can a parent want to do that?
You know what I mean.
You're over here trying toraise your child and you're like
okay, well, you left me.
Fine, you're not here anymore.
I accepted that.
Now you're with this person andyou're making this new life.
Fine.
Then why are you still after me?
Right, just let me go Right.
Parenting is already hardenough, then, to add the dynamic
(07:36):
of high conflict co-parenting,right, and even that sentence,
high conflict co-parenting eventhat within itself is a bit of
an oxymoron, because youactually cannot fully parent
with a high conflictco-parenting.
Even that within itself is abit of an oxymoron, because you
actually cannot fully parentwith a high conflict co-parent.
You're constantly countering,you're constantly countering,
and I called it DC.
I was constantly on damagecontrol.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right.
It's almost like you can'tprogress with your children
because you're having to undoall the bad things, right?
So you have your personalexperience with this, but then
you also have a professionalbackground that helps you
understand these situations.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I mean, I have a master's degree in criminal
justice.
I'm not really sure thereprobably is some tied, you know,
transferable skills to it.
You know I'm not going to, youknow, sit here and say that I'm
like a mental health counselor,because I'm not.
I don't know, I'm not a mentalhealth professional.
I'm also not an attorney or alegal professional.
You know I do have thatmaster's.
You know, when I got that backwhen I was younger, it is
(08:43):
transferable in terms of, like,the way that I think and how to
defend myself.
When I was in court, my excouldn't pay child support, but
he did hire attorneys.
So, you know, I did end uphiring two at some point.
And you know, there's only somuch that you can do as a single
mom because you're you're beingtargeted in so many ways
(09:04):
emotionally, legally,financially.
You know, um, I mean some.
At some point it was targetingmy spiritual side too, where I'm
like, how is this happening tome?
Like you know what I mean.
Like I'm not a bad person.
Why are they coming at me sohard, you know?
So, yeah, I do have somebackground, but I wouldn't.
You know, I don't want to beoverstating what I do have.
(09:25):
You know I also do have.
I'm also certified in naturalhealth as a natural health
professional from the TrinitySchool of Natural Health, and I
only got that certificationbecause with a lot of high
conflict comes health conditions, health issues, you know,
because you're constantly onhigh cortisol levels so you're
stressed out and that ended upaffecting my body.
(09:46):
So I I do have an autoimmunecondition that I um that I take
care of on my own.
Um, sometimes I do bring in uman outside party to help me if I
get stuck, but most of the timeI have learned enough now about
natural healing modalities tobe able to um basically take
care of myself, uh, myself, to,you know, mentally and even
(10:07):
physically.
I don't believe in meds, youknow.
If people do, that's theirprerogative, but I basically
manage my conditions naturally.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
There are so many things that obviously go into
this.
I mean, there are like 10different avenues that we could
take this episode.
I'm like that was a lot right,yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So, my journey has been like very unique, very
unique and also very eclectic inthe way where I'm at now.
It's nowhere where I thought Iwould be.
You know some pros, some cons,the court hearings that
eventually did end, but theaftermath of it it's still there
.
It's still there.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It doesn't die off.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
No, and I even think that once your children are
beyond school age and you think,okay, we're done and there's
not that necessary co-parenting,that needs to happen because
you know they're technicallyadults now but you still have
there's graduations, there'sgrandbabies, there's weddings
and all sorts of differentthings that you're still going
(11:10):
to have to interact with thatother person.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, there is, but it just depends on the
comfortability of your child andwhat they want to do and how
they.
One of the hardest things thatI had to learn is that,
regardless of what my exes havedone, my kids' dads, my child
has the right to select how theywant to proceed with their
(11:35):
relationship with their father.
Um, um, irrelevant to my ownexperience, irrelevant to what
they've put me through, whatthey've left me hanging on, what
they've neglected, you know, um, because the child has their
own experience, because that istheir father, and I'm not saying
that they have to talk to them.
You know, some people will dothe whole like forceful thing,
(11:55):
or you must talk to them becausehe's your dad.
That's not the approach I take.
I take more of the approach ofwell, go explore it, go figure
it out, and if you want to go,no contact.
Or if you want to limit yourcontact, those do exist If you
need to do that.
That's kind of what I.
I'm more of a background actornow for my kids.
I'm not really front and centerwhen it comes to that, because
(12:17):
now they can actually speak forthemselves.
They have their own values,they have their own perspectives
.
So I try my best, even thoughit's hard, you know, cause mama
got opinions too.
So, um, I try my best to justbe supportive, even if I don't
agree with it.
It is my childhood journey andit is a difficult journey, and
if they need support, I am there, you know.
(12:39):
I am there to just provide that, you know, because it is a hard
thing to stomach that yourother parent, you know, is what
they are.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And that's a testament to how much that you
have healed and matured throughthe process, because I imagine
it would be difficult toco-parent with somebody that you
loathe, you know, and not toimpart your own personal bias
onto your kids.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Like, hey, you know that parent's the bad guy, right
, right, and you know you'reright.
There is a level of dislikethat I do still have sometimes,
but it's not to the point that Iused to have when I was still
in it.
So, whoever's listening to this, my current journey might be
different in how I feel nowbecause, see, I'm already a
little bit away from it.
So if you're still in it,you're probably going to still
(13:32):
feel those normal feelings ofhate.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I sound like I'm at peace at it because I'm already
on my way out, right, right,well, and almost betrayal too,
like if you get your kids andthey're like, oh, I want to go
back over to mommy or daddy'shouse.
I miss mommy or daddy.
You know the other parent.
You're almost thinking like,but what about me?
Like, why aren't I?
Oh, girl.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yes, so we actually had that situation happen on, uh
, for Christmas, and Christmasfor us was very different.
We actually have traditionswith my that I created with my
children.
You know, um, every, everyDecember, we do family pictures.
That that's not necessarilywhat happened this December.
We're still trying to figureout how to do the holidays,
(14:17):
especially because now I liveout of state and my daughter
lives in a different state, andthen my son's with me, and then
his dad lives somewhere else too.
He doesn't live in the samestate, so we're all in three
different states, so Christmaslooks very different.
I truly do not mind sharing.
That's one thing that I noticedthat as I grew in my mentality
and I haven't always been thisway, okay, it took a lot of
(14:38):
growth, okay so as I grew Irealized that, yes, I'm sad and
I actually did cry when my sondecided to go with his dad.
I cried a lot because it'sreally hard to let go of your
kids because, you know, assingle moms, they literally
become our world.
But then there's a certainlevel of like letting go that
(15:01):
you have.
That has to happen becausethat's a natural way of things,
where they they should be ableto, you know, have autonomy and
individuate from us.
You know, um, to be separatefrom us, but that's still hard,
you know, cause we're attachedto them.
So, um, my son ended up goingwith his dad for two weeks, um,
for, uh, christmas, you know,and that was nowhere near me, it
was like hundreds of miles awayfrom me.
(15:21):
You know, and um, I talk in oneof my videos that I made on my
Instagram account, that we, asmoms you know, protective,
supportive moms we end up doingthings that are more like in the
truly, more in the bestinterest of our child than even
the courts sometimes.
You know, because we know weknow more.
(15:42):
You know, even if it hurts you,you will end up doing things
for your kid that you see, thatmaybe your kid needs, even if it
breaks your heart.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, and that's, oh my gosh gosh.
The emotional part is hard tolet your kids go like graduate
high school and they're goingoff to start their own life and
everything's healthy andeverybody gets along.
That's hard enough.
But then when they go tosomebody else that you don't get
along with and or that doesn'tlike you, that doesn't like you,
we're going to use a strongword hates you they get along
(16:13):
with, or that doesn't like you.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That doesn't like you , we're going to use a strong
word hates you, they might hateyou.
You mentioned load.
Then you know I actuallystopped.
I would say I stopped hatingthem a while back, but it took a
lot of work, like I mentionedearlier, and I still do, you
know, kind of have my momentswhere I don't like them very
much, but at the same time, Ikeep in my mind something that I
(16:34):
talked that I that I kind oftry to stay with, which is to
love my kids more than I hate myex.
I don't know if you've everheard that and I actually made a
little bit of a segment on itlast year love your kids more
than you hate your ex.
And actually that even applieseven to men.
If they're going through, likea toxic, you know a relationship
with their, you know with their.
You know mothers with theirkids moms, you know, because
(16:57):
it's not necessarily exclusiveto gender.
You know the level of toxicitythat one can be put through, you
know.
So I focus on that, you know.
And then, now that my kids gotolder, they're actually able to
voice to me, like their needsand what they would like and
their desires, and I'm justsitting here trying to figure
out like okay, how can I makethis decision that best fits my
(17:19):
child's needs.
You know what I mean, likeoutside of whatever court
stuff's happening, you know.
And but, mind you, I amspeaking from a different
perspective because now we don'treally have an operational
court order for my son and myson chooses when to go with his
dad.
And also the court order for mydaughter did end too, and I
kind of wanted just to betransparent about that because
(17:41):
my perspective is differentbecause of the fact that I'm at
the tail end and also you dooperate differently when you're
still in it, you do.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh for sure, Especially when you're fresh out
of the relationship.
So obviously, this is a podcastbased on domestic violence.
So you're coming out of adomestic violence situation and
whatever the details of that is,you are freshly out of it,
you're hurting, you're grieving,oh, 100%.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And you're pissed, and you're pissed, and on top of
that, they don't want to payyou.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh my goodness, oh, my gosh, right, really, we are
going to go in 10,000 differentdirections here, but so just a
quick, before we get too farinto other things can you give a
definition of high conflictco-parentings, just so that
everybody's on the sameunderstanding level of what
we're talking about before we godown these 20 paths that we've
(18:36):
already created?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
We probably need more segments so high, complex
co-parenting the best way that Ican describe it would be when
there's two parents who have notbeen separated or divorced and
they're having a difficult timeagreeing on things and usually
it's stemming from the lack ofmaturity from one of them and
then they start usingmanipulative tactics.
(18:58):
They can start using lies, theycan start using intimidation.
They can also start omittinginformation that you would need
to have at some point, that youneed as the other parent.
There's just a list of.
There's also gaslighting too,so it just really depends.
I don't typically use the wordnarcissist because it gets
(19:19):
thrown around a lot.
I know what I've experienced,but I do know that at least one
of them is a narcissist.
I don't have official diagnosis, you know, but what I went
through was definitely one washarder than the other, but they
both were hard in their own way.
So the best way to describe thehigh conflict co-parenting is
(19:39):
basically two people that aretrying to make the best out of
co-parenting and one of them ismaking it extremely difficult
and, if anything, they're highlylitigious.
That's even one component too,because that's actually
different components, becausewhenever they're doing one thing
, they're actually doingseparate things too.
So it's basically like amulti-prong system of how
(20:00):
they're going to just basicallytry to decimate you and try to
not really co-parent.
If anything, they're justtrying to destroy your
relationship with your child.
Now, there's different levels ofit, you know what I mean.
Like some of them are nicerthan others, you know, um, but
it just at its core, they'rejust making co-parenting a lot
more difficult than it should be, you know, and just making
(20:21):
decisions hard.
You know, like you can neverdecide on anything, you know, or
even if you, or if you proposesomething, you know, your ideas
are just never good enough, youknow, um.
Or?
Or if you're parenting,something's wrong with your
parenting at every step of theway.
You know, I was constantlybashed for my parenting
throughout the entire 10 yearsand a lot of it.
(20:41):
He kind of weaponized mybackground.
I have a background in nothaving a good family dynamic.
I have a toxic family dynamicwith my biological family, so I
didn't really have a mom and Ialso didn't have a dad.
So he weaponized that in courtand made it seem like I was not
going to be a capable mombecause I didn't know what a
(21:03):
family was according to him andhis wife.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
So they just continue to use the abusive tactics that
they've been using the wholetime.
Sometimes it's systematic.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You won't even know if it's even happening until
you're realizing like thisdoesn't sound right.
And now there's moreinformation out there of it.
There's a vast amount ofinformation.
I'm super surprised how muchthere is.
Back when I was in it, I don'tremember being this much like
you know, awareness of it,because even at some point I
felt like I was the crazy one,because they told me I was the
(21:39):
crazy one, and then you're goingto court and court's telling
you no, that's not happening.
You need to co-parent better.
You know what I mean.
Like you chose him, so whyaren't you co-parenting with him
?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Oh, I love that one.
You chose him yes.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh, I love that one.
You chose him, yes, yeah, orlike because I have two kids
with two different dads.
Right, I got the whole.
Well, how come you can't keep aman?
That's nice, let's kick youwhile you're down.
(22:14):
And as I got older and I also,you know, grew and I did a lot
of personal development Irealized how a lot of that you
know it did stem from some ofthe patterns that I needed to
heal in my own personal life.
But a lot of that is a lot ofshifting ideology.
That's not making the otherperson accountable.
So you know people are going tohave really judgy comments,
especially when you have twokids from two different dads
(22:35):
that look that, do not look thesame.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right and then, like you mentioned, one of your exes
remarried.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So now you're not even having of the experiences
that I've had too, where, likeyou know, he even went for the
(23:06):
whole like well, we have atraditional family environment
and she's a single mom and youknow, I think at one point he
even like I had never beencalled a feminist and he called
me a feminist.
I even had to Google it becauseI'm like, what does that mean,
you know?
And I forgot what Google toldme and I'm just like maybe I am
(23:27):
that, I don't know, but he wouldcall me all kinds of names.
You know he, there was a lot ofname calling.
You know that that still stayedwith me.
That stayed with me and itactually not only did it stay
with me, it actually kept mefrom doing what I'm doing now
for a very long time, because hewas very, very verbally abusive
.
Well, and it doesn't just havean impact on you, it has an
impact on the kids too, becauseWell, luckily we only had one
(23:51):
child together and it did makean impact on my daughter, you
know, in terms of she spent mostof her life hearing really bad,
just hearing me being bashed,yeah, so I which go ahead.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, you look at so a kid has two like role models.
They have multiple role models,but the two people that they
put on pedestals are mom and dad, yeah, or you know, whatever
the family dynamic is, they'reparents or two parents, and when
you have one parent who theyidolize is speaking poorly about
(24:27):
the other parent whom they alsoidolize, they then become
confused, like which one's thebad guy?
Is one of them the bad guy?
And is there something wrongwith me for thinking they're
good and they're good?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It is a very confusing dynamic and that's
exactly what happened with mydaughter, you know, um, she was
always wondering like what, whowas, who was right?
You know, as she got older shekind of was able to have more
discernment, but there was,there was things that I had to
do to be able to help herthrough it, you know, to support
it through it.
When the courts, pretty muchthey failed in the way where my
(25:05):
dad's right to get visitation orcustody superseded the rights
of my daughter's, like basichuman rights, you know.
So that's what I realized, asit was, you know, kind of ending
and I think I realized that Iwasn't going to be helped.
You know, one of the worstquotes I remember from one of
(25:27):
the judges was telling us whenwe were in front of him and he
just said this case has reacheda point of no return.
And I just remember thinking tomyself okay, so then you can't
fix this, then who can Right?
You know, and then in themiddle of that, you know my
daughter's childhood still justmoving forward day by day, you
know, and I know a lot of us, alot of us who are caught up in
(25:49):
these situations we end up doingthis bittersweet struggle of
like counting down the days whenyour kid turns 18, but then
it's bittersweet because thenyou realize that, yes, the court
order's over, but then at thesame time your child's childhood
is over too.
So when it was happening withmy daughter, I went through
(26:10):
immense levels of grief tryingto figure out how to navigate
that, because it was ending, butthen at the same time so was
her childhood the same time, sowas her childhood.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Well, and it's hard too, because you want to foster
a good relationship with yourkids and have good, effective
communication, but then you alsodon't want to add to the
toxicity of the relationship bybad-mouthing the other parent.
So that's a difficult situationto navigate through.
You want them to be able tolike let's talk about what
you're thinking or what you'refeeling, but then like it's just
(26:46):
tough.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So I um, there were, there was a lot of things that I
did that I don't like in termsof how I handled the beginnings
of it.
You know, towards the end of it, I did have some more of a
strategic thinking.
I ended up checking out books,you know.
I was in therapy.
I ended up taking angermanagement classes because, you
know, there was a lot of thingsbeing said about me, but not
(27:09):
only were they not true, it wasreally hard to hear my daughter
verbalize them, you know.
So I worked with her at home.
Primarily, I worked with her athome, but that was hard.
That was hard because that'snot necessarily how I envisioned
being a parent.
You know what I mean.
Like you're just counteringwhat someone else is doing, you
(27:32):
know, and then you're wonderingam I doing more damage by
countering them?
You know, like, and then youknow, and then you have your own
hangups too, where, like youknow where you have your own
traumas from your own childhoodthat come into play in how you
parent.
And then you add this toxicdynamic to a high conflict
co-parenting and it just feelslike a hot mess.
It literally feels never ending.
(27:55):
Until I think about 2018 is whenI realized that this stuff was
about to end, that this stuffwas about to end and I had to
change things and one of themain changing factors that
really shifted things and movedthe needle I ended up doing
something unorthodox that Iwouldn't say I recommend it.
I was just more ready for itbecause at that time I was
(28:18):
building a different business tosupport me and my kids, because
there was hardly any childsupport coming in from any of my
exes, and I learned that Ineeded to move forward in a
different way and I canceled thechild support payment from my
daughter's dad because he washolding it over our heads and I
(28:40):
got tired of hearing himthinking that I was getting rich
from the $230 something he wassending and I had already been
working on building a business.
So I just worked my buns off tobuild something.
That way we didn't have to relyon that money and you know a
(29:01):
lot of us out here we're justdoing things that will help us
survive through these terrible,terrible situations, you know.
So that's why I lead withunorthodox and I wouldn't
recommend it, because I'm notsaying, you know, listeners, go
out there and cancel your childsupport payments, because a lot
of women need these payments.
You know what I mean Like, andit's also a child's right to be
(29:22):
supported.
But the question then lies whathappens if the other co-parent,
so to speak, is not leveragingtheir, is not weaponizing child
support?
What happens then?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Right, well, and like you mentioned, this whole high
conflict, parenting is all basedon control and being able to
maintain control.
So then now, if you take awaythe piece that they're using as
their control piece, then youjust took away their power,
correct?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So once I did that, that's actually what moved a lot
of the needle, and I'm notready to talk about the rest of
the components, but it was.
It definitely moved things andmy whole thing, that whole time
I went through that court case,was to help my daughter have a
life that she can choose from.
(30:14):
And I can tell you the reasonI'm telling and wording it this
way was because when I was in itI had joined several groups
that pertain to my situation andI was watching women on there
posting about their 20 somethingyear old child still being
controlled by their father, whowas narcissistic and high
conflict when they were younger.
(30:35):
And I'm looking at this and I'mlike, oh, that's not happening
to my kid.
So I set a bunch of things inmotion that took a while.
I planted seeds and it took awhile for them to be some type
of you know gets gained, somebenefit for my daughter, and
they weren't perfect.
(30:55):
You know I made a lot ofmistakes along the way.
That I still.
You know I acknowledge it and Ialso validate my daughter in
terms of what I the parts thatmaybe weren't the greatest of
ideas that have affected her.
You know, I acknowledge it andI also validate my daughter in
terms of what I the parts thatmaybe weren't the greatest of
ideas that have affected her,you know, but I I had to.
I felt like I had to do what Ineeded to do to be able to
safeguard my daughter's startinto her adulthood.
That way she has independence,she has autonomy and she can
(31:18):
live a life that she sees fit,even if I don't agree with it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Does that control carry on from that high conflict
parent into their adulthood andaffect their future
relationships and theirself-image and all sorts of
things?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right, right, oh, 100%.
So I saw that and once Irealized that typically someone
that's high conflict we'll justcall them high conflict just for
purposes of keeping it simplethey don't have foresight, they
can't see into, like, and thereason I saw this was because I
(32:10):
noticed that my ex couldn't seelife after court order.
He only saw within theframework and his perspective of
what he was currentlycontrolling, because he did have
some control, you know, but hecouldn't, he like, he couldn't
see.
Thereafter, once you see thatand you can kind of capitalize
(32:31):
on what they can't see, you canactually change it for the
betterment of your child,because our job, even if they're
, you know, we're raising them.
You're eventually raising anadult, not necessarily a child,
right?
So I capitalize on his lack offoresight to be able to release
my daughter from his grip.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay so, marisol, I think this is a good stopping
point for right now, becausewe've discussed the features of
co-parenting and I think maybewe should do another episode
that goes over how to navigatethe co-parenting issues
successfully.
Okay, okay, all right, so Iwill.
We'll be back next week withyour second episode, perfect.
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