The devastating intersection between suicide and domestic violence remains largely hidden, yet the statistics tell a shocking story. In this deeply important conversation, LCSW Jessica reveals that one in three women who attempted suicide in the past year were recent victims of intimate partner violence.
Drawing from her years of experience working with suicidal individuals, Jessica unpacks how the risk factors for suicide directly mirror the experiences of domestic violence victims. The isolation, hopelessness, and psychosocial stressors created by abusive relationships establish perfect conditions for suicidal thoughts to take hold. Most alarmingly, research shows the window between having suicidal thoughts and taking action can be as brief as five minutes to one hour.
We explore the generational impacts as well, discovering disturbing international data showing children who witness domestic violence face significantly higher suicide risks. In the U.S., one in fifteen children are exposed to intimate partner violence annually, with 90% being eyewitnesses to abuse.
This episode provides crucial information about recognizing warning signs, creating effective safety plans, and understanding what happens during crisis intervention. Jessica emphasizes the importance of direct communication, explaining that asking someone specifically about suicidal thoughts doesn't plant the idea – it opens the door for life-saving conversation.
Remember the crisis line number: 988.
References:
Suicide and intimate partner violence
UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health, April 11 2022 discussed this study: Intimate partner violence victimization and perpetration as precursors to suicide - ScienceDirect
Intimate partner violence, suicidality, and self-harm: a probability sample survey of the general population in England - PMC Lancet Psychiatry, 2022 Jul; 9(7)
Scale of homicide and suicides by domestic abuse victims revealed content
Resources:
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
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Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Cro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, little sister, also known as Jessica.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm fine, Ingrid.
Thank you for having me on yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
I've been wanting to have aprofessional and you actually
happen to be a professionalright at my fingertips, so
that's very kind of you to takeyour time to join me today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're welcome.
I didn't know.
I had a choice, you didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But I still am going to be gracious and say thank you
.
So today we're going to talkabout suicide and its links to
domestic violence, slashintimate partner violence.
So before we get started, I'dlike for you please, to give
just a bit of a background onyour experience with suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, well, first of all, I'm a licensed clinical
social worker in the state ofFlorida and Texas.
I have had my LCSW for 14 yearsI think roughly maybe and in my
, the majority of my experiencewith suicide has been with
(01:13):
active duty, military andveterans, and probably about a
total of almost seven years ofworking with suicidality, and so
I would like to say I'm asubject matter expert on that.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It's weird for my little sister to be a subject
matter expert on anything but.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'd have to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So just could you explain what an LCSW is and what
those qualifications are, justto everyone knows.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sure, it's a licensed clinical social worker.
You have to have a master'sdegree in social work and then,
depending on the staterequirements, you either have to
have two years or three yearsof clinical supervision and you
have to pass a national exam tobe able to be a licensed
clinical social worker, whichmeans you can provide therapy,
you can diagnose pretty mucheverything that a psychologist
(02:07):
can do, except for somepsychological testing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, so definitely very qualified.
Thank you All right.
So let's start talking aboutsuicide and domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was able to obtain some statistics for you, and one
of them the number, you willfind interesting.
One in three women who haveattempted suicide in the past
year and this is from 2021, wasa recent IPV victim.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's insane.
That is, that's a crazystatistic.
Quickly, ipv.
I know I've talked about itbefore, but since we're using
abbreviations, I like to updatejust in case this is somebody's
first time listening to this upto this podcast ipv intimate
partner violence is what thatstands for, and I also have the
(03:01):
links to all the resources ifyou need them or if anyone wants
them that's perfect.
I'll put those in the shownotes for sure references, not
resources.
I also do have resources, soquick, it doesn't say that
article didn't say like howrecent did it?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
because I guess the article was written in 2022, so
I believe the stats were takenfrom 2021 and 2020.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But it says that one in three is a recent.
They were a recent victim.
It doesn't say like how?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
recent.
Oh I see, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Because I guess technically they can be at risk
for forever really right.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's actually what I'm going to.
I do have some of the riskfactors for suicide uh are
coincide a lot with uh victimsof ipv.
Some of the risk factors uh ahistory of mental health um
substance use, impulsivity,hopelessness, isolation, access
to lethal means, psychosocialstressors, which could be
(04:04):
financial housing anything to anabusive partner well, yes, I'm
getting to that.
That's.
That's in a little bit umemployment, you know, um legal,
and then relationship stressors,which is a very nice way to say
part of an abusive partner.
Toxic relationships, norelationship with family.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, so that covers every aspect of domestic
violence, so the legal, thefinancial, the psychological,
emotional.
It doesn't, does it say?
Did you say physical?
I did not say physical.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Okay, well, I'm sure this is going to play into it
too.
But I mean the victimization isassociated with anxiety,
depression, ptsd, fear, concernof safety, physical injury,
which you did mention, and someof the risk factors for
experiencing IPV, either as avictim or a perpetrator because
I wanted to talk about suicideand perpetrators as well
(05:05):
includes substance abuse,alcohol dependence, the social
isolation, history of abuse,whether it be as a victim or a
witness of parental IPB, andthey also all those correlate
with suicide as well.
So there's a lot of riskfactors.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And it makes sense because, as a victim of domestic
violence, you're stuck in thissituation where you feel alone.
So the isolation and there'shopelessness.
Be alone, because one of thethings that perpetrators or
abusers do is attempt to isolateyou, either physically or all
(05:48):
those other things you listedfinancially and socially,
whatever.
So it makes sense that youbegin to think that there is no
other alternative to escape fromyour reality other than
consideration of suicide,exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Exactly, there was also.
So I know that a lot.
Sometimes sorry I just jumped.
Sometimes when you kind ofthink of suicide and IPV, you
think of murder-suicide and thatis actually pretty rare.
It's less than 2% of thesuicides from the available
research I found, and so a lotof the research that has been
(06:32):
done has been focusing on themurder-suicide aspect of it.
So unfortunately, the data outthere this is the most recent
data that I found that is outthere.
But more studies are beingconducted and there was also
actually in the UK there was apolice force, the National
Police Chiefs Council, andthey're doing a study on suicide
(06:55):
and domestic violence to bettertrain their police officers
when they respond to a situationand they listed an analysis
which came out last year onMarch 13th and the key findings
from the report.
I found this pretty interesting.
There's a total of 242 domesticabuse-related deaths were
recorded between April 22nd toMarch 23rd.
(07:18):
There was 93 suspected victimsuicides following domestic
abuse, 80 intimate partnerhomicides, 31 adult family
homicides, 23 unexpected deathswhich they did not clarify what
that meant.
This part's a little sad andfour quote unquote other deaths
(07:42):
which are individuals that livewith the family but were not
family members, like a friendbeing at the home which recently
in Central Texas there was amurder-suicide of a spouse and
her friend in the home.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I actually know the statistic.
I think it's about 20% ofintimate partner violence.
Homicides actually involveother individuals outside of the
victim, like family members,neighbors, people who intervene,
law enforcement officers oreven bystanders.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
There was some other data that I got from this report
that I also found interesting.
If you don't mind if I share,Please do.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
That's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh, okay, thank you.
So the majority of the victimswere female, between 25 and 54,
and the majority of theperpetrators were male and of
the same 25 to 54.
The number of victims andperpetrators of ethnic minority
remains slightly higher thanoverrepresented than the general
(08:44):
population.
Four in the five perpetratorswere known to the police before
the homicide occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Three in five were for domestic abuse and over a
third were known to otheragencies, not just the police so
quickly when they're saying theperpetrator, are they saying
that that's the person whocommitted the homicide or that's
the person who killedthemselves?
Homicide, okay, yeah, that's ahuge link, especially in
(09:21):
domestic violence and aggressivedomestic violence, to be
released many times withoutletting the victim know that
they've been released, andthey're released prematurely, I
think.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, and another thing is that the majority of
the method of suicide wasfirearm, which we do know the
danger of having a firearm,especially in a domestic
violence situation, for the riskof death and then also now for
the risk of suicide.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, so risk of death.
It increases by 500%.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's insane which is insane.
Some states have laws that ifyou have a domestic violence
charge on you, you're notsupposed to own a firearm and
that's where it comes in on.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Is there a domestic violence charge?
Because my abuser, for instance, owns firearms and I have never
filed a report on him?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
mm-hmm.
There's well to coincide thatthere's also supposed to be a
limitation with mental healthdiagnoses and owning a firearm.
And when you fill out I don'tknow if you remember when you
filled out your concealed permitit asks if you've ever been
diagnosed with a mental healthdisorder, and so it's
self-report.
So that is kind of a flaw inthe system.
(10:45):
I'm not saying everyone'smental health record should be
free for all to look at, butit's just a flaw.
I don't have a solution.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's just a flaw, I agree, and we aren't getting.
We're not saying take the gunsaway.
We're not saying pro-guns oranything.
We're just saying that thereare these links to what can
happen.
So I'm not familiar with thegun laws in the United Kingdom.
(11:13):
Is that?
Did it mention anywhere use ofguns with those statistics?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, no, it didn't.
Let's see, 10% of suspects wereeither currently or previously
had been managed by police or onprobation.
Some of the risk factorscontrolling and coercive
behavior, mental health, alcoholuse, drug use, mental health,
(11:47):
alcohol use, drug use those aresome of the things that they
found which also are riskfactors for suicide.
So another statistic I foundintimate partner violence was a
precipitating factor for 4.5% ofsingle suicide events.
So this doesn't say whetherthey were the victim or the
perpetrator single suicideevents.
So this doesn't say whetherthey were the victim or the
perpetrator.
And when you combine that withhomicide suicide data, it is
(12:11):
suggested because, like I said,the data is incomplete because
there's not enough research outthere that IPV is a precursor
for 6.1% of suicides overall,which is it sounds like a small
number, but I feel like that isa very, very large number.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well, and you are the expert.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, and to compare, chronic pain is 8.8%, job
problems of psychosocialemployment 6.4%.
So it is third on the list ofof reasons or not reasons
precipitating events for suicide.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So is chronic pain the number one risk factor, I
think it's kind of hard todetermine.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Especially you have to go back and look and review,
kind of do a behavioral healthautopsy on someone's medical
history and mental healthhistory to kind of determine
what the cause was.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So if chronic pain is listed in their medical records
, you can say that chronic painwas a precipitating factor, I
(13:39):
see, yeah, is the longevity oftheir risk factor for suicide is
because, for instance, chronicpain could be something that
they could be 10 years out fromtheir abusive relationship but
still be suffering from chronicpain that they got as a result
(14:00):
of being physically abused bytheir partner.
So these, I guess it's real.
It would be kind of difficult,maybe Again, if it's in somebody
who hasn't reported the IPV, tolike exactly, exactly, and so
yeah the mental health you can.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
If no one, if no one is aware of the IPV happening,
they just say mental health is aprecipitating factor.
So it's like I said, the datais it needs to be researched a
lot more so we can try to get tothe cause and put resources and
suicide prevention resourcesagain out there.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So, in other words, again, statistics are terrible,
but they're way worse than whatwe understand it to be Like.
For instance, the one in threewomen, one in three men who are
victims of physical violence orsexual violence by their
partners.
Those numbers are actually wayworse because the violence is
(15:02):
underreported.
And so then that also coincideswith the suicide, because those
numbers are underreported, andso then that also coincides with
the suicide, because thosenumbers are underreported.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And I mean suicide's a top 10 leader of a leading
cause of death in the UnitedStates.
They've increased in the lasttwo decades this is from 1999 to
2019.
And it was a 30% increase overthose last.
The suicide rates have climbedmost sharply for women and Black
(15:33):
, non-hispanic youth.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And that data ends at 2019?
.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, so it was probably way worse, considering
that COVID was just around thecorner from that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
They put.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It's one of the resources that I'm going to
share for you to put in yourshow notes and they actually
came out with a whole entirereport and options for people
because of COVID, and they wereaware that domestic violence and
suicide rates were your partneris able to go to work every day
, or both of you is able to goto work and escape from being in
the same physical environment24 hours, seven days a week, and
(16:38):
then COVID shuts that down.
So already before you'regetting some sort of reprieve,
and suicide might be somethingthat you have been considering,
and now you're getting some sortof reprieve and suicide might
be something that you have beenconsidering, and now you're just
inundated in this abuse.
There, I, I could complete, and, and nowhere to go, and then
you can't even get if you weregetting therapy.
(16:58):
How are you supposed to gettherapy with your abuser in the
house, exactly?
So, yeah, I imagine thosenumbers are insanely elevated.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So, in regards to the adult section of suicide,
survivors of IPV are twice aslikely to attempt suicide
multiple times than the generalpopulation.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And that's survivors like people who are out of the
relationship.
No, you know, I didn't read thespecifications, you know and
that's fine, because I think thedefinition of victim and
survivor varies from individual.
So, like I personally feel avictim is in the relationship
(17:50):
and may consider theunderstanding of what's
happening but is still excusingit, like for myself, I was a
victim for quite a while andthen I feel that you become a
survivor not when you physicallyget out, but when you realize
this is happening to me.
I need to get out, because nowyou're in survivor mode, I'm
(18:18):
going to do this.
So I mean it varies, becausesome other individuals will
consider a survivor as somebodywho is physically removed from
the abuse.
So back to, like, the attemptingsuicide portion.
I don't know if you haveanything to talk about with this
, but there may be attempts asand I'm not sure if this is the
(18:41):
correct terminology to use Iknow that with suicide things
have changed a little bit as faras what you are supposed to say
and what you're not supposed tosay, but attempting suicide
could be an actual cry for help,not completing suicide.
And it may not just be I'mreally sad and depressed, really
sad and depressed.
(19:02):
It may be like, hey, somebodypay attention to me, I'm being
abused and I have no idea howelse to say something about it
or bring attention to this.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It could be Suicide attempts again, it's.
Unfortunately the definitionsof attempts are also subjective,
based on the level of trainingand experience of the person
reporting it the medical ormental health professional.
A lot times self-harm andsuicide have been interjected
(19:40):
like for each other and it's notcorrect.
Self-harm is like cutting whereyou just like, try to
physically harm yourself, not ina way to actually end your own
life, and suicide attempts canalso vary from.
There's a thing calledpreparatory behavior.
Preparatory behavior is whereyou say, like you stockpile all
(20:01):
of your medications with thethoughts of I'm going to
overdose on them later, butyou're not physically doing that
right now.
That's preparatory behaviorwhich is also very, very
concerning because people are atrisk for most.
It's generally 90 days aftersomeone does that or like goes
to a store and buys a gun aspreparatory behavior.
They're most at risk for 90days following that preparatory
(20:22):
behavior.
A suicide attempt could also beputting a gun into your mouth
but not pulling the trigger.
Or it could also be putting agun into your mouth pulling the
trigger knowing a bullet's notin there.
Or putting a gun into yourmouth pulling the trigger
knowing a bullet's not in there.
Or putting a gun in your mouth,pulling the trigger, knowing a
bullet's in there and the gundoesn't fire.
So those are all my definitionsof suicide attempts.
(20:45):
But again it's subjective onthe mental health and medical
professional as to what they sayit is.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That makes sense, which makes this whole suicide
and domestic violence suck,obviously, but it makes it so
much more difficult to identifyall the specifics in order to be
able to treat all the specifics, because there is such a
(21:15):
differentiation in subjectivesuicide, even thoughts of
wishing that they were dead notnecessarily suicidal thoughts,
(21:42):
but just thoughts of I wish Iwas dead.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
There are some ways to some mitigating factors that
you could do.
One of the big things is lethalmeans safety.
It is trying to put some kindof barrier between that person
and whatever method they want tofollow through with on suicide.
So gun locks, giving someone, afamily member, access, giving
them your firearm for themeantime I know in domestic
violence situations that may notalways be possible, especially
(22:05):
if you're isolated you couldalways put the bullets in a
different spot and put thefirearm in a different spot.
So it takes several steps forthat person to actually go get
the bullets, put them in the gunand during that duration of
time, hopefully some kind ofintervention can be put in place
, whether it be them callingsomeone, calling a friend or
(22:25):
them just changing their thoughtprocess as well.
And same thing with medications.
There's a lot of ways that youcan dispose of extra medications
around the house.
If you're having thoughts ofsuicide and you want to overdose
, you can ask your provider canI only get a week supply at a
time instead of a 30 or 90 daysupply?
And another part of themitigating.
(22:49):
Things to do is to involvefamily and friends.
That's not always possible inthis situation.
Things to do is to involvefamily and friends.
That's not always possible inthis situation, so it is.
There's a.
There's a phone number.
There's a crisis line phonenumber that is the best to use.
I know there's a domesticviolence hotline.
There's also the 988 crisisline which you can call.
(23:10):
You can be anonymous.
You don't have to provide yourname.
The only reason that they willget access to your information
is if they think that you're atimminent risk of hurting
yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, I suppose one of the concerns with a domestic
violence victim in getting otherpeople involved is I mean,
there's always so many issueswith that Because, again, you
may not be acknowledging thatwhat you're having is abuse.
So I've said before, forinstance, I didn't want to let
(23:45):
you know everything that wasgoing on because I didn't want
you to judge my partner, Becausehow could we go to you know,
how could we hang out togetherwith you knowing everything
about him.
So that might be something thatholds a victim back from
getting family or friendsinvolved.
(24:07):
There's also the concern of youdon't want someone to intervene
so you may confide in acolleague.
Well, what happens if thatcolleague is very ambitious and
decides to contact lawenforcement for a well check or
something along those lines andthe abuser's home, and so law
(24:30):
enforcement comes for a wellcheck on you, not for a domestic
violence disturbance.
But now that has keyed yourabuser into the idea of who are
you talking to and what are yousaying.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Which puts you at risk, and another, not even the
physical abuse, like theemotional abuse of intimate
partner violence.
This person will get beat downand think that everything that
they're saying is true and maynot want to reach out because
they've been beat down so muchand I think no one else cares.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
This is what Absolutely that you're lucky to
have me.
You're nothing without me,nobody else is going to care
about you.
That's all part of theisolation tactics, too, right Is
you know?
I'm going to make your.
Your sister doesn't care aboutyou.
If she really cared about you,she'd be here and you start to
believe it.
(25:23):
And so how am I?
I'm not going to talk to mysister about it.
I believe now my sister doesn'tcare about me and so yeah,
which is never, ever going to betrue.
Well, I know that I'm giving itas an example.
I probably did believe it for alittle bit, though it crossed
my mind every once in a while.
Oh my goodness, I do stillbelieve that You're mom and
dad's favorite, but we won't getinto that right now.
(25:44):
Well, that's a given.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
That is 100% a given.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Okay.
So I'm going to interject herethat if Jessica and I laugh a
little bit, we actually one,we're sisters and we have a good
relationship.
But two, we actually have apodcast.
That's a separate podcast wherewe do goof around.
So even on serious topics wewill try to laugh here and there
(26:11):
.
So we're not minimizing thistopic.
It's a super serious.
Both suicide and domesticviolence are super, super
serious relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
But uh and both, both of our passions, my passion and
your passion, absolutely it'sit's.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
The passions are colliding and every once in a
while we'll make light ofsomething ridiculous mechanism.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Please forgive us.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And we're probably making light of ourselves.
So not the actual topic.
Okay, so back to you.
I think this is about to getsucky.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
This is so.
I wanted also to look into thedata on how children are
impacted with suicide anddomestic violence, intimate
partner violence.
I did not find any research inthe United States.
I didn't do a lot of deepdigging on it because it's just
(27:02):
a really crappy topic and Idon't.
Yeah, sorry.
So again, your background isprimarily adults yes, so I found
an Australian report from.
It was published in 2022.
So I wanted something recentbecause actually there's not a
(27:23):
lot out there.
And psycho, psychosocial riskfactors were the most common
factors associated with suicidein Australia.
So the you know things going onin interpersonally.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And did it give an age range, or that's just
blanket, that's just blanket,okay.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Okay.
So then also internationalstudies, which were.
When I looked, there was a lotof Asian studies, like there was
Bangladesh was in there, therewas some Indian studies in there
.
It was fascinating, but Icouldn't find any from the US.
So the international studieshave specifically identified
(28:07):
child maltreatment andexperiences of domestic family
violence as significantcontributing factors to
avoidable deaths in earlyadulthood.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
This is just so the abuse that they witnessed or
experienced as a child iscarrying over into their suicide
risk as adults.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
No, these are still children completing suicide.
So Australia has decided to paycloser attention as to the
leading causes and risk factorsof children completing suicide,
because their rates have beenhigher.
There's a recent national studyof a little over 5,000 young
Australians and it revealed thatone in two of young people in
(28:51):
Australia grow up with some formof domestic family violence.
One in two.
One in two, one in two.
So their definition of domesticfamily violence does include
IPV and child mistreatment,child abuse.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Okay, but still one in two.
One in two oh my God, that'sawful.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So this part discusses the witnessing and it
says that, although they may notbe the intended target, this
form of they called it vicariousvictimization they called it
vicarious victimization it canlead to similar outcomes as the
person actually experiencing theabuse.
(29:40):
The primary target and objectof the abuse during childhood
have been identified as a riskfactor for suicide attempts and
also suicidal ideation, which isthe thoughts of suicide and the
planning, which kind of goesback to the preparatory
(30:07):
behaviors I was talking.
So here's a crappy statisticand this is the last of the data
I have on this because, like Isaid, I just breaks my heart.
A recent study, which waspublished in 2021, showed a
significant association betweenexperiences of domestic family
violence and suicidal behaviorsamong individuals aged 10 to 20
(30:30):
years old.
So it is a significantassociation.
So children who experience orwitness are are more likely to
have suicidal behaviors between10 and 20.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And I understand that's not in the United States.
I actually do have statistics,for in the United States it's
not suicide, it's not suiciderelated, but just domestic
violence related.
One out of 15 children areexposed to intimate partner
violence annually in the UnitedStates.
90% are eyewitnesses in theUnited States, 90% are
(31:14):
eyewitnesses.
So you take that statistic andalign it with the statistics
that you have it's humongous.
I'm not going to do the math,but it's horrible, horrible
statistics.
This isn't intimate partnerviolence, but just to report
these findings as well is oneout of five female high school
students and over 13% male highschool students report physical
(31:38):
or sexual abuse by their datingpartner.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So I'm sure that those factors also play into
consideration of risk forsuicide.
Well, they definitely do,especially based on what you
told us at the beginning of thisepisode as far as risk factors
for suicide.
But these individuals, thesehigh school students, if you're
not going to consider that, Imean it is domestic violence,
(32:05):
it's intimate partner violence.
It may not be domestic in termsof residing in the same
household at that point, butthese people are now at higher
risk to end up in an actualcohabitation of domestic
violence.
Exactly Whether it's an intimatepartner or a roommate even.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Exactly.
And another thing that goesalong with the children is that
the children see theserelationships growing up and it
becomes normalized for them.
So when they do become adults,they tend to I'm not going to
say they tend to, but they canveer towards those kind of
relationships because that'swhat's normal for them.
And it brings up the same riskfactors the mental health, the
hopelessness, the isolation allof those same risk factors for
(32:47):
suicide.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, in addition to that, they're at higher risk.
Children witnessing not evenexperiencing the abuse
themselves, but witnessing thereare higher rates for substance
abuse and alcohol abuse.
As they I mean even probably asa teenage years and as they
progress through life, they'reat a higher risk for substance
(33:10):
abuse, which then, in turn,increases the risk for suicide.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
One of the things that I've noticed in my
professional experience withsuicide is every I would say
almost every single person thatI've come across, hopelessness
is always mentioned.
They have no hope, they see noway out, and imagine a child
witnessing domestic violenceagainst one of their parents,
(33:37):
like a parent on parent.
Can you imagine how hopeless?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
they feel Well and so confused and I've said this
before that as a child, yourbiggest role models are mom and
dad.
Yeah, so let's not even youknow.
I'm just going to say good guy,bad guy, just to simplify
things.
So even if one of the parentsis the bad guy and you know that
(34:01):
person is abusing the otherparent, who's the good guy?
The child is going to be soconfused anyway because these
are his or her role models,they're heroes.
And now you have bad guyabusing good guy or even talking
badly about the good guy.
So now they start to doubt thegood guy and they doubt their
(34:25):
reality, and you're right.
Then they say, okay, well, thisis how dad treats mom, or mom
treats dad, and that's okay andalso bring into the fact of
second marriages or secondpartners.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And when the parent that you thought was your
quote-unquote good parent bringsin an abusive partner, and what
message is that giving to thechild?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Absolutely, especially in domestic violence.
Unfortunately, being a survivorof domestic violence, you are
at a higher risk of becominginvolved in another domestic
violent relationship.
Okay, do you have morestatistics?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I don't.
Okay, I don't have any morestatistics.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I think I might be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I'm actually okay with that too.
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So just to wrap up and sort of consolidate, could
you just sort of streamline yourinformation?
So I suppose, risks one moretime for suicide and then
warning signs, I think would bea good one for people to be
(35:39):
aware of.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Okay.
So some of the risk factors themental health, substance use,
impulsivity, hopelessness,isolation, access to the lethal
means, whether it be a firearm,medications, a rope, a car
access restricting access tolethal means.
The psychosocial stressors andthe legal stressors and, most
(36:03):
importantly, especially in IPV,the relationship stressors.
Those are some of the riskfactors.
Some of the signs and symptomswould be the preparatory
behavior, the stockpiling of themedication, seeking access to
lethal means, whether it beresearching where to purchase a
firearm, researching methods,whatever it could be, giving
(36:36):
away items, lack of interest inthings that they used to enjoy,
the isolation.
But when it comes to IPV, someof that isolation may not be in
their option to control.
Those are some of the riskfactors that you can pay
attention to, the risk justbecause are not risk factors.
Some of those are.
Those may be some of the signs,but also know that there may be
(36:56):
zero signs of it and someonepreparing a will that could be a
sign and it could just besomeone being super.
You know, responsible.
Oh, I thought you were going tosay something.
I was going to say responsiblefor you.
Oh, okay, thank you.
Another thing that I would sayis if you are a friend or family
(37:18):
member and you notice some ofthese signs, or you notice
something, or you just have thisfeeling.
Ask, ask that person are youhaving thoughts of suicide?
Do not ask, are you thinkingabout harming yourself?
Because again, that could bethe self-harm, that could be the
cutting which is a maladaptivecoping skill to help deal with
things.
So you need to ask specificallyare you having thoughts of
(37:39):
suicide?
And just because you asksomeone, that it's not going to
put the idea in their head, ifthey have the idea, it is
already there and if they sayyes, it does not mean that
they're going to do it in frontof you.
So you don't need to be scaredof the answer.
If someone does say, yes, I'mhaving thoughts of suicide,
don't leave them alone.
Just sit there, ask what'sgoing on or just be silent and
(38:01):
let them talk, validate,validate, validate, validate,
validate their feelings,validate that.
Yes, that sounds very difficult.
I see that you're thinkingabout suicide and that can be
really scary.
That can be terrifying to havethose thoughts and then try to
encourage, to get them help, andsome of the ways they can get
(38:22):
help in.
One of the immediate ways is anemergency room.
If you're ever having thoughtsof suicide.
You can always go to anemergency room.
You'll get evaluated there.
They won't always keep you.
The only time they will is ifthey think you are at an
imminent risk of hurtingyourself.
Which means if you leave thathospital you are going to go out
and try to complete suicide.
So that's the only way you stay.
(38:43):
You can always voluntarily goinpatient if you want to, and if
you voluntarily go you get avoluntarily leave.
So an emergency room is anoption.
Calling 911 is also an option.
And then I mentioned it earlierthe crisis line.
It is 988, just like 911 is 988.
(39:06):
You can remain anonymous.
If you're a veteran, you candial 988 and then you press one
and that way you get taken tothe military and veterans crisis
line instead of the generalcrisis line.
But they can provide youresources.
They can just be a person tolisten to and again, you can
remain anonymous.
The only way that they wouldtry to find you is if you are
again at risk of imminentlyhurting yourself.
And then SAMHSA, which is theSubstance Abuse and Mental
(39:32):
Health Services AdministrationSorry, I had a blink.
They created a zero suicidetoolkit for providers, community
members, individuals.
I'll send Ingrid the link soshe can put it in her show notes
.
That's a pretty helpful toolkitand can also give you ideas or
options of things that you cando for your family member,
(39:55):
friend, community whatever youfeel like doing, so you can just
have that toolkit, absolutelyokay.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
What are and I I know that healthcare providers and
law enforcement individuals aretrained on this, but what do
they?
For instance, what did they doif they find somebody who
appears to be in immediatecrisis?
So that you know, people canunderstand.
I know you mentioned the ER andthey're not going to hold you
(40:26):
unless they feel that you're animminent threat.
But if somebody wereconsidering suicide and
seriously considering it at thatmoment and they decide to call
law enforcement, what can theyexpect to?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
happen.
It actually depends on whereyou are.
So I have, if you, I've calledwelfare checks on people before
when they had the like how yousaid.
They had the suicidal ideation,they had the intention, which
means when you say intention, itmeans they want to follow
through with it and they knowthat the consequences of their
(41:02):
actions, they know that if theytake all these pills that they
will die.
So if they have that intent andknow the definition of that
intent, so suicidal ideation,intent means.
So when I have called welfarechecks, if it is a busier
metroplex, the police will getthere when they can and it is
(41:23):
very terrifying staying on thephone with someone who has
suicidal ideation, intent andmeans waiting for the police to
show up, and it can take 45minutes.
However, if it's more local andthey have a designated task
force, a mental health taskforce, a crisis team some places
do they can send them out andevaluate them them.
(41:49):
The police will show up,they'll talk to the individual
and, although they are notmental health professionals,
they will assess and they willbase their assessment on what
the person says.
So say you call 911 on someonewho has suicidal ideation,
intent and means and when thepolice show up, they're like no,
I don't, I don't, I'm notplanning on killing myself.
I was just saying that thepolice will not push it any
further.
However, if they continuetalking to the individual and
(42:11):
they feel that person is at riskand needs a further evaluation,
you will get taken to yourclosest emergency room in a
police car.
Sometimes you are handcuffedfor your safety, sometimes you
are not.
It depends on the policedepartment, honestly, and it
varies, but you get taken to theclosest emergency room.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
So, even if you have an emergency room that you
prefer, or a hospital you preferor another one, the police and
the EMS will always take you tothe closest one emergency
department and the professionalsdetermine that they are indeed
a risk, an imminent risk tothemselves, they admit and they
decide that they cannotdischarge them from their
facility If they have thecapacity to hold that individual
(42:59):
like first of all.
If they don't have the capacity, is there a chance that they
get transferred to somewhereelse or the facilities or the
resources to properly treat them?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
What do you mean if they don't have the capacity?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So, for instance, say it's just like a small hospital
.
They don't have the room, northey don't have somebody that
could you know, they don't havelike a psych unit for this
person or they don't have enoughstaff to keep eyes on this
person.
I suppose there would be apotential for them to get
(43:32):
transferred to another facility.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Absolutely, and most emergency rooms do have mental
health rooms, whether it be oneor two, and you would remain on
a one-to-one, which means anurse or some staff at the
hospital would sit with you thewhole time.
If you get brought in by thepolice department or EMS, they
will just so you know.
They will take your belongingsto include your cell phone.
(43:55):
You can't get your cell phoneback to get a phone number if
you need to call a family memberor friend.
However, your belongings gettaken from you and they make
sure that you're in a mentalhealth room.
So there's no risks of youcompleting suicide while you're
in the actual room.
If a person, if the medicalprofessionals think that you
need to be hospitalized and youdo not want to be hospitalized,
(44:19):
they will get a legal warrant.
A detention warrant is what wecall it here in Texas.
You can get a detention orinvoluntary hold.
They get put in front of ajudge and it's a mandatory 72
hour hold.
You cannot be discharged untilthe end of that 72 hours.
That's why I said if you gointo a hospital voluntarily, you
can still voluntarily leave ifyou do get hospitalized.
(44:41):
So that's, there's something toexpect.
But if you go into an emergencyroom on your own, say, a friend
or you bring yourself in.
Most times you can still have.
They'll put you on a one to one, but most times you can still
have access to your phone to beable to call.
Or if you go in with a friend,I have known some emergency
rooms to let the friend orfamily member stay in the room
with you.
(45:02):
One thing I'm so sorry I meantto bring this up earlier is that
there has been research thatsays that someone is suicidal.
From thoughts to actual actionoccurs in less than an hour.
So that's why the lethal meansis so important to put time in
between, so it can last fromfive minutes to an hour from
(45:23):
thought to action.
So if you know or you yourselfare experiencing that even that
initial thought, if you have asafety plan much like a domestic
violence safety plan of whereyou have someone you can call to
distract them some kind ofmusic, movie, go for a walk,
some kind of activity to getyourself out of that.
(45:44):
A safety, a suicidal, some kindof activity to get yourself out
of that.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
A safety, a suicidal, suicide safety plan is another
good tool to have, and that canbe another example of where code
words come into play.
You know, if your abuser's inthe home and you have a trusted
confidant of where you feel likeI have, I have no other option
right now.
You can call them and give yourcode word so that person knows.
(46:08):
Okay, this is the one-hour timeframe I have right now.
I have a question for you.
So you said it could take up to45 minutes and you know,
possibly if it's just reallycrappy places, it could maybe
even take more than 45 minutes.
If you are someone who has beenconfided in this, say you call
(46:33):
me and you say I want tocomplete suicide.
I have the firearm is sittingin my lap right now.
I understand that this is itand I'm not going to come back
from that and this is what Iplan to do.
What do you suggest that personon the other phone do, like you
don't want them to hang upright.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
No, no, stay on the phone with them?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
How do you contact, how do you get law enforcement
and stay on the phone with them?
How do you do all of that If ina professional setting.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
When I've had to do that, I have messaged coworkers
of please call 911 and do awelfare check on this.
So if I was on my personalphone I'd probably put that
person on speaker and textsomeone and say you need to call
911 and have them come to thisaddress.
And that's another thing.
You have to know what thatperson is, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So, and then you just stay on the line until somebody
gets there?
Yes, because the second youhang up.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
That could be alone.
They're alone.
You never want to leave someonewho's suicidal alone.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Okay, well, thank you , jessica.
You're welcome.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
I talked longer than I thought I meant to.
This is what we do.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
This is what happens when our passions collide.
Okay, so in summary again,jessica just went over the not
risk.
Well, you did go over the riskfactors earlier in this episode,
but you did just summarize whatare some clues that somebody
may be considering suicide, andthen you summarized what
(48:19):
somebody should do.
We talked about what couldhappen once help is activated.
Is there anything else you canthink of that we need to bring
up?
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Nothing I can think of.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
So again, I thank you very, very much for taking the
time out of your incredibly busylife to come on and talk.
I I'm not being serious, areyou?
I am you guys.
Jessica works full time.
Her husband works full time.
She has two kids.
(48:58):
We used to have, like I said,we used to have a podcast so
that we kept updated.
It's been on hold for a bit,but we're going to come back.
But I do really appreciate youcoming on here.
I know this is your passion,but it still is a sucky topic,
as is mine.
So I really do appreciate it.
I hope and again, I will listthose resources that Jessica
(49:24):
mentioned in the show notes, aswell as the crisis line, which
is 988.
Super notes, as well as thecrisis line, which is 988.
Super easy 988 for the crisisline.
Can I say?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
thank you for having me on here.
Suicide prevention is a hugepassion of mine and talking
about it is one of the best waysto get the information out.
Talking about suicide makingthat person feel comfortable and
normal to be able to talk toyou about it is huge.
I can't tell you how huge it isJust having someone that they
(49:51):
can confide in and get all theirstuff out.
So talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Once again, jessica, thank you so much.
The links to everything thatshe mentioned, as well as the
crisis line, will be listed inthe show notes and I will be
back next week with anotherepisode for you.
And until then, stay strong and, wherever you are in your
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
(50:16):
Find more information, registeras a guest or leave a review by
going to the websiteonein3podcastcom.
That's the number one.
I-n the number three podcastcom.
Follow One in Three onInstagram, facebook and Twitter
at onein3podcast To help me out.
Please remember to rate, reviewand subscribe.
(50:37):
One in Three is a .5 Pinoyproduction music written and
performed by Tim Crow.
Hello, little sister, also known as Jessica.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm fine, Ingrid.
Thank you for having me on yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
I've been wanting to have aprofessional and you actually
happen to be a professionalright at my fingertips, so
that's very kind of you to takeyour time to join me today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're welcome.
I didn't know.
I had a choice, you didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But I still am going to be gracious and say thank you
.
So today we're going to talkabout suicide and its links to
domestic violence, slashintimate partner violence.
So before we get started, I'dlike for you please, to give
just a bit of a background onyour experience with suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, well, first of all, I'm a licensed clinical
social worker in the state ofFlorida and Texas.
I have had my LCSW for 14 yearsI think roughly maybe and in my
, the majority of my experiencewith suicide has been with
(01:13):
active duty, military andveterans, and probably about a
total of almost seven years ofworking with suicidality, and so
I would like to say I'm asubject matter expert on that.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It's weird for my little sister to be a subject
matter expert on anything but.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'd have to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So just could you explain what an LCSW is and what
those qualifications are, justto everyone knows.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sure, it's a licensed clinical social worker.
You have to have a master'sdegree in social work and then,
depending on the staterequirements, you either have to
have two years or three yearsof clinical supervision and you
have to pass a national exam tobe able to be a licensed
clinical social worker, whichmeans you can provide therapy,
you can diagnose pretty mucheverything that a psychologist
(02:07):
can do, except for somepsychological testing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, so definitely very qualified.
Thank you All right.
So let's start talking aboutsuicide and domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was able to obtain some statistics for you, and one
of them the number, you willfind interesting.
One in three women who haveattempted suicide in the past
year and this is from 2021, wasa recent IPV victim.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's insane.
That is, that's a crazystatistic.
Quickly, ipv.
I know I've talked about itbefore, but since we're using
abbreviations, I like to updatejust in case this is somebody's
first time listening to this upto this podcast ipv intimate
partner violence is what thatstands for, and I also have the
(03:01):
links to all the resources ifyou need them or if anyone wants
them that's perfect.
I'll put those in the shownotes for sure references, not
resources.
I also do have resources, soquick, it doesn't say that
article didn't say like howrecent did it?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
because I guess the article was written in 2022, so
I believe the stats were takenfrom 2021 and 2020.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But it says that one in three is a recent.
They were a recent victim.
It doesn't say like how?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
recent.
Oh I see, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Because I guess technically they can be at risk
for forever really right.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's actually what I'm going to.
I do have some of the riskfactors for suicide uh are
coincide a lot with uh victimsof ipv.
Some of the risk factors uh ahistory of mental health um
substance use, impulsivity,hopelessness, isolation, access
to lethal means, psychosocialstressors, which could be
(04:04):
financial housing anything to anabusive partner well, yes, I'm
getting to that.
That's.
That's in a little bit umemployment, you know, um legal,
and then relationship stressors,which is a very nice way to say
part of an abusive partner.
Toxic relationships, norelationship with family.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, so that covers every aspect of domestic
violence, so the legal, thefinancial, the psychological,
emotional.
It doesn't, does it say?
Did you say physical?
I did not say physical.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Okay, well, I'm sure this is going to play into it
too.
But I mean the victimization isassociated with anxiety,
depression, ptsd, fear, concernof safety, physical injury,
which you did mention, and someof the risk factors for
experiencing IPV, either as avictim or a perpetrator because
I wanted to talk about suicideand perpetrators as well
(05:05):
includes substance abuse,alcohol dependence, the social
isolation, history of abuse,whether it be as a victim or a
witness of parental IPB, andthey also all those correlate
with suicide as well.
So there's a lot of riskfactors.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And it makes sense because, as a victim of domestic
violence, you're stuck in thissituation where you feel alone.
So the isolation and there'shopelessness.
Be alone, because one of thethings that perpetrators or
abusers do is attempt to isolateyou, either physically or all
(05:48):
those other things you listedfinancially and socially,
whatever.
So it makes sense that youbegin to think that there is no
other alternative to escape fromyour reality other than
consideration of suicide,exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Exactly, there was also.
So I know that a lot.
Sometimes sorry I just jumped.
Sometimes when you kind ofthink of suicide and IPV, you
think of murder-suicide and thatis actually pretty rare.
It's less than 2% of thesuicides from the available
research I found, and so a lotof the research that has been
(06:32):
done has been focusing on themurder-suicide aspect of it.
So unfortunately, the data outthere this is the most recent
data that I found that is outthere.
But more studies are beingconducted and there was also
actually in the UK there was apolice force, the National
Police Chiefs Council, andthey're doing a study on suicide
(06:55):
and domestic violence to bettertrain their police officers
when they respond to a situationand they listed an analysis
which came out last year onMarch 13th and the key findings
from the report.
I found this pretty interesting.
There's a total of 242 domesticabuse-related deaths were
recorded between April 22nd toMarch 23rd.
(07:18):
There was 93 suspected victimsuicides following domestic
abuse, 80 intimate partnerhomicides, 31 adult family
homicides, 23 unexpected deathswhich they did not clarify what
that meant.
This part's a little sad andfour quote unquote other deaths
(07:42):
which are individuals that livewith the family but were not
family members, like a friendbeing at the home which recently
in Central Texas there was amurder-suicide of a spouse and
her friend in the home.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I actually know the statistic.
I think it's about 20% ofintimate partner violence.
Homicides actually involveother individuals outside of the
victim, like family members,neighbors, people who intervene,
law enforcement officers oreven bystanders.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
There was some other data that I got from this report
that I also found interesting.
If you don't mind if I share,Please do.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
That's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh, okay, thank you.
So the majority of the victimswere female, between 25 and 54,
and the majority of theperpetrators were male and of
the same 25 to 54.
The number of victims andperpetrators of ethnic minority
remains slightly higher thanoverrepresented than the general
(08:44):
population.
Four in the five perpetratorswere known to the police before
the homicide occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Three in five were for domestic abuse and over a
third were known to otheragencies, not just the police so
quickly when they're saying theperpetrator, are they saying
that that's the person whocommitted the homicide or that's
the person who killedthemselves?
Homicide, okay, yeah, that's ahuge link, especially in
(09:21):
domestic violence and aggressivedomestic violence, to be
released many times withoutletting the victim know that
they've been released, andthey're released prematurely, I
think.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, and another thing is that the majority of
the method of suicide wasfirearm, which we do know the
danger of having a firearm,especially in a domestic
violence situation, for the riskof death and then also now for
the risk of suicide.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, so risk of death.
It increases by 500%.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's insane which is insane.
Some states have laws that ifyou have a domestic violence
charge on you, you're notsupposed to own a firearm and
that's where it comes in on.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Is there a domestic violence charge?
Because my abuser, for instance, owns firearms and I have never
filed a report on him?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
mm-hmm.
There's well to coincide thatthere's also supposed to be a
limitation with mental healthdiagnoses and owning a firearm.
And when you fill out I don'tknow if you remember when you
filled out your concealed permitit asks if you've ever been
diagnosed with a mental healthdisorder, and so it's
self-report.
So that is kind of a flaw inthe system.
(10:45):
I'm not saying everyone'smental health record should be
free for all to look at, butit's just a flaw.
I don't have a solution.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's just a flaw, I agree, and we aren't getting.
We're not saying take the gunsaway.
We're not saying pro-guns oranything.
We're just saying that thereare these links to what can
happen.
So I'm not familiar with thegun laws in the United Kingdom.
(11:13):
Is that?
Did it mention anywhere use ofguns with those statistics?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, no, it didn't.
Let's see, 10% of suspects wereeither currently or previously
had been managed by police or onprobation.
Some of the risk factorscontrolling and coercive
behavior, mental health, alcoholuse, drug use, mental health,
(11:47):
alcohol use, drug use those aresome of the things that they
found which also are riskfactors for suicide.
So another statistic I foundintimate partner violence was a
precipitating factor for 4.5% ofsingle suicide events.
So this doesn't say whetherthey were the victim or the
perpetrator single suicideevents.
So this doesn't say whetherthey were the victim or the
perpetrator.
And when you combine that withhomicide suicide data, it is
(12:11):
suggested because, like I said,the data is incomplete because
there's not enough research outthere that IPV is a precursor
for 6.1% of suicides overall,which is it sounds like a small
number, but I feel like that isa very, very large number.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well, and you are the expert.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, and to compare, chronic pain is 8.8%, job
problems of psychosocialemployment 6.4%.
So it is third on the list ofof reasons or not reasons
precipitating events for suicide.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So is chronic pain the number one risk factor, I
think it's kind of hard todetermine.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Especially you have to go back and look and review,
kind of do a behavioral healthautopsy on someone's medical
history and mental healthhistory to kind of determine
what the cause was.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So if chronic pain is listed in their medical records
, you can say that chronic painwas a precipitating factor, I
(13:39):
see, yeah, is the longevity oftheir risk factor for suicide is
because, for instance, chronicpain could be something that
they could be 10 years out fromtheir abusive relationship but
still be suffering from chronicpain that they got as a result
(14:00):
of being physically abused bytheir partner.
So these, I guess it's real.
It would be kind of difficult,maybe Again, if it's in somebody
who hasn't reported the IPV, tolike exactly, exactly, and so
yeah the mental health you can.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
If no one, if no one is aware of the IPV happening,
they just say mental health is aprecipitating factor.
So it's like I said, the datais it needs to be researched a
lot more so we can try to get tothe cause and put resources and
suicide prevention resourcesagain out there.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So, in other words, again, statistics are terrible,
but they're way worse than whatwe understand it to be Like.
For instance, the one in threewomen, one in three men who are
victims of physical violence orsexual violence by their
partners.
Those numbers are actually wayworse because the violence is
(15:02):
underreported.
And so then that also coincideswith the suicide, because those
numbers are underreported, andso then that also coincides with
the suicide, because thosenumbers are underreported.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And I mean suicide's a top 10 leader of a leading
cause of death in the UnitedStates.
They've increased in the lasttwo decades this is from 1999 to
2019.
And it was a 30% increase overthose last.
The suicide rates have climbedmost sharply for women and Black
(15:33):
, non-hispanic youth.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And that data ends at 2019?
.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, so it was probably way worse, considering
that COVID was just around thecorner from that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
They put.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It's one of the resources that I'm going to
share for you to put in yourshow notes and they actually
came out with a whole entirereport and options for people
because of COVID, and they wereaware that domestic violence and
suicide rates were your partneris able to go to work every day
, or both of you is able to goto work and escape from being in
the same physical environment24 hours, seven days a week, and
(16:38):
then COVID shuts that down.
So already before you'regetting some sort of reprieve,
and suicide might be somethingthat you have been considering,
and now you're getting some sortof reprieve and suicide might
be something that you have beenconsidering, and now you're just
inundated in this abuse.
There, I, I could complete, and, and nowhere to go, and then
you can't even get if you weregetting therapy.
(16:58):
How are you supposed to gettherapy with your abuser in the
house, exactly?
So, yeah, I imagine thosenumbers are insanely elevated.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So, in regards to the adult section of suicide,
survivors of IPV are twice aslikely to attempt suicide
multiple times than the generalpopulation.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And that's survivors like people who are out of the
relationship.
No, you know, I didn't read thespecifications, you know and
that's fine, because I think thedefinition of victim and
survivor varies from individual.
So, like I personally feel avictim is in the relationship
(17:50):
and may consider theunderstanding of what's
happening but is still excusingit, like for myself, I was a
victim for quite a while andthen I feel that you become a
survivor not when you physicallyget out, but when you realize
this is happening to me.
I need to get out, because nowyou're in survivor mode, I'm
(18:18):
going to do this.
So I mean it varies, becausesome other individuals will
consider a survivor as somebodywho is physically removed from
the abuse.
So back to, like, the attemptingsuicide portion.
I don't know if you haveanything to talk about with this
, but there may be attempts asand I'm not sure if this is the
(18:41):
correct terminology to use Iknow that with suicide things
have changed a little bit as faras what you are supposed to say
and what you're not supposed tosay, but attempting suicide
could be an actual cry for help,not completing suicide.
And it may not just be I'mreally sad and depressed, really
sad and depressed.
(19:02):
It may be like, hey, somebodypay attention to me, I'm being
abused and I have no idea howelse to say something about it
or bring attention to this.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It could be Suicide attempts again, it's.
Unfortunately the definitionsof attempts are also subjective,
based on the level of trainingand experience of the person
reporting it the medical ormental health professional.
A lot times self-harm andsuicide have been interjected
(19:40):
like for each other and it's notcorrect.
Self-harm is like cutting whereyou just like, try to
physically harm yourself, not ina way to actually end your own
life, and suicide attempts canalso vary from.
There's a thing calledpreparatory behavior.
Preparatory behavior is whereyou say, like you stockpile all
(20:01):
of your medications with thethoughts of I'm going to
overdose on them later, butyou're not physically doing that
right now.
That's preparatory behaviorwhich is also very, very
concerning because people are atrisk for most.
It's generally 90 days aftersomeone does that or like goes
to a store and buys a gun aspreparatory behavior.
They're most at risk for 90days following that preparatory
(20:22):
behavior.
A suicide attempt could also beputting a gun into your mouth
but not pulling the trigger.
Or it could also be putting agun into your mouth pulling the
trigger knowing a bullet's notin there.
Or putting a gun into yourmouth pulling the trigger
knowing a bullet's not in there.
Or putting a gun in your mouth,pulling the trigger, knowing a
bullet's in there and the gundoesn't fire.
So those are all my definitionsof suicide attempts.
(20:45):
But again it's subjective onthe mental health and medical
professional as to what they sayit is.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That makes sense, which makes this whole suicide
and domestic violence suck,obviously, but it makes it so
much more difficult to identifyall the specifics in order to be
able to treat all the specifics, because there is such a
(21:15):
differentiation in subjectivesuicide, even thoughts of
wishing that they were dead notnecessarily suicidal thoughts,
(21:42):
but just thoughts of I wish Iwas dead.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
There are some ways to some mitigating factors that
you could do.
One of the big things is lethalmeans safety.
It is trying to put some kindof barrier between that person
and whatever method they want tofollow through with on suicide.
So gun locks, giving someone, afamily member, access, giving
them your firearm for themeantime I know in domestic
violence situations that may notalways be possible, especially
(22:05):
if you're isolated you couldalways put the bullets in a
different spot and put thefirearm in a different spot.
So it takes several steps forthat person to actually go get
the bullets, put them in the gunand during that duration of
time, hopefully some kind ofintervention can be put in place
, whether it be them callingsomeone, calling a friend or
(22:25):
them just changing their thoughtprocess as well.
And same thing with medications.
There's a lot of ways that youcan dispose of extra medications
around the house.
If you're having thoughts ofsuicide and you want to overdose
, you can ask your provider canI only get a week supply at a
time instead of a 30 or 90 daysupply?
And another part of themitigating.
(22:49):
Things to do is to involvefamily and friends.
That's not always possible inthis situation.
Things to do is to involvefamily and friends.
That's not always possible inthis situation, so it is.
There's a.
There's a phone number.
There's a crisis line phonenumber that is the best to use.
I know there's a domesticviolence hotline.
There's also the 988 crisisline which you can call.
(23:10):
You can be anonymous.
You don't have to provide yourname.
The only reason that they willget access to your information
is if they think that you're atimminent risk of hurting
yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, I suppose one of the concerns with a domestic
violence victim in getting otherpeople involved is I mean,
there's always so many issueswith that Because, again, you
may not be acknowledging thatwhat you're having is abuse.
So I've said before, forinstance, I didn't want to let
(23:45):
you know everything that wasgoing on because I didn't want
you to judge my partner, Becausehow could we go to you know,
how could we hang out togetherwith you knowing everything
about him.
So that might be something thatholds a victim back from
getting family or friendsinvolved.
(24:07):
There's also the concern of youdon't want someone to intervene
so you may confide in acolleague.
Well, what happens if thatcolleague is very ambitious and
decides to contact lawenforcement for a well check or
something along those lines andthe abuser's home, and so law
(24:30):
enforcement comes for a wellcheck on you, not for a domestic
violence disturbance.
But now that has keyed yourabuser into the idea of who are
you talking to and what are yousaying.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Which puts you at risk, and another, not even the
physical abuse, like theemotional abuse of intimate
partner violence.
This person will get beat downand think that everything that
they're saying is true and maynot want to reach out because
they've been beat down so muchand I think no one else cares.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
This is what Absolutely that you're lucky to
have me.
You're nothing without me,nobody else is going to care
about you.
That's all part of theisolation tactics, too, right Is
you know?
I'm going to make your.
Your sister doesn't care aboutyou.
If she really cared about you,she'd be here and you start to
believe it.
(25:23):
And so how am I?
I'm not going to talk to mysister about it.
I believe now my sister doesn'tcare about me and so yeah,
which is never, ever going to betrue.
Well, I know that I'm giving itas an example.
I probably did believe it for alittle bit, though it crossed
my mind every once in a while.
Oh my goodness, I do stillbelieve that You're mom and
dad's favorite, but we won't getinto that right now.
(25:44):
Well, that's a given.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
That is 100% a given.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Okay.
So I'm going to interject herethat if Jessica and I laugh a
little bit, we actually one,we're sisters and we have a good
relationship.
But two, we actually have apodcast.
That's a separate podcast wherewe do goof around.
So even on serious topics wewill try to laugh here and there
(26:11):
.
So we're not minimizing thistopic.
It's a super serious.
Both suicide and domesticviolence are super, super
serious relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
But uh and both, both of our passions, my passion and
your passion, absolutely it'sit's.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
The passions are colliding and every once in a
while we'll make light ofsomething ridiculous mechanism.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Please forgive us.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And we're probably making light of ourselves.
So not the actual topic.
Okay, so back to you.
I think this is about to getsucky.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
This is so.
I wanted also to look into thedata on how children are
impacted with suicide anddomestic violence, intimate
partner violence.
I did not find any research inthe United States.
I didn't do a lot of deepdigging on it because it's just
(27:02):
a really crappy topic and Idon't.
Yeah, sorry.
So again, your background isprimarily adults yes, so I found
an Australian report from.
It was published in 2022.
So I wanted something recentbecause actually there's not a
(27:23):
lot out there.
And psycho, psychosocial riskfactors were the most common
factors associated with suicidein Australia.
So the you know things going onin interpersonally.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And did it give an age range, or that's just
blanket, that's just blanket,okay.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Okay.
So then also internationalstudies, which were.
When I looked, there was a lotof Asian studies, like there was
Bangladesh was in there, therewas some Indian studies in there
.
It was fascinating, but Icouldn't find any from the US.
So the international studieshave specifically identified
(28:07):
child maltreatment andexperiences of domestic family
violence as significantcontributing factors to
avoidable deaths in earlyadulthood.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
This is just so the abuse that they witnessed or
experienced as a child iscarrying over into their suicide
risk as adults.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
No, these are still children completing suicide.
So Australia has decided to paycloser attention as to the
leading causes and risk factorsof children completing suicide,
because their rates have beenhigher.
There's a recent national studyof a little over 5,000 young
Australians and it revealed thatone in two of young people in
(28:51):
Australia grow up with some formof domestic family violence.
One in two.
One in two, one in two.
So their definition of domesticfamily violence does include
IPV and child mistreatment,child abuse.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Okay, but still one in two.
One in two oh my God, that'sawful.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So this part discusses the witnessing and it
says that, although they may notbe the intended target, this
form of they called it vicariousvictimization they called it
vicarious victimization it canlead to similar outcomes as the
person actually experiencing theabuse.
(29:40):
The primary target and objectof the abuse during childhood
have been identified as a riskfactor for suicide attempts and
also suicidal ideation, which isthe thoughts of suicide and the
planning, which kind of goesback to the preparatory
(30:07):
behaviors I was talking.
So here's a crappy statisticand this is the last of the data
I have on this because, like Isaid, I just breaks my heart.
A recent study, which waspublished in 2021, showed a
significant association betweenexperiences of domestic family
violence and suicidal behaviorsamong individuals aged 10 to 20
(30:30):
years old.
So it is a significantassociation.
So children who experience orwitness are are more likely to
have suicidal behaviors between10 and 20.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And I understand that's not in the United States.
I actually do have statistics,for in the United States it's
not suicide, it's not suiciderelated, but just domestic
violence related.
One out of 15 children areexposed to intimate partner
violence annually in the UnitedStates.
90% are eyewitnesses in theUnited States, 90% are
(31:14):
eyewitnesses.
So you take that statistic andalign it with the statistics
that you have it's humongous.
I'm not going to do the math,but it's horrible, horrible
statistics.
This isn't intimate partnerviolence, but just to report
these findings as well is oneout of five female high school
students and over 13% male highschool students report physical
(31:38):
or sexual abuse by their datingpartner.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So I'm sure that those factors also play into
consideration of risk forsuicide.
Well, they definitely do,especially based on what you
told us at the beginning of thisepisode as far as risk factors
for suicide.
But these individuals, thesehigh school students, if you're
not going to consider that, Imean it is domestic violence,
(32:05):
it's intimate partner violence.
It may not be domestic in termsof residing in the same
household at that point, butthese people are now at higher
risk to end up in an actualcohabitation of domestic
violence.
Exactly Whether it's an intimatepartner or a roommate even.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Exactly.
And another thing that goesalong with the children is that
the children see theserelationships growing up and it
becomes normalized for them.
So when they do become adults,they tend to I'm not going to
say they tend to, but they canveer towards those kind of
relationships because that'swhat's normal for them.
And it brings up the same riskfactors the mental health, the
hopelessness, the isolation allof those same risk factors for
(32:47):
suicide.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, in addition to that, they're at higher risk.
Children witnessing not evenexperiencing the abuse
themselves, but witnessing thereare higher rates for substance
abuse and alcohol abuse.
As they I mean even probably asa teenage years and as they
progress through life, they'reat a higher risk for substance
(33:10):
abuse, which then, in turn,increases the risk for suicide.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
One of the things that I've noticed in my
professional experience withsuicide is every I would say
almost every single person thatI've come across, hopelessness
is always mentioned.
They have no hope, they see noway out, and imagine a child
witnessing domestic violenceagainst one of their parents,
(33:37):
like a parent on parent.
Can you imagine how hopeless?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
they feel Well and so confused and I've said this
before that as a child, yourbiggest role models are mom and
dad.
Yeah, so let's not even youknow.
I'm just going to say good guy,bad guy, just to simplify
things.
So even if one of the parentsis the bad guy and you know that
(34:01):
person is abusing the otherparent, who's the good guy?
The child is going to be soconfused anyway because these
are his or her role models,they're heroes.
And now you have bad guyabusing good guy or even talking
badly about the good guy.
So now they start to doubt thegood guy and they doubt their
(34:25):
reality, and you're right.
Then they say, okay, well, thisis how dad treats mom, or mom
treats dad, and that's okay andalso bring into the fact of
second marriages or secondpartners.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And when the parent that you thought was your
quote-unquote good parent bringsin an abusive partner, and what
message is that giving to thechild?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Absolutely, especially in domestic violence.
Unfortunately, being a survivorof domestic violence, you are
at a higher risk of becominginvolved in another domestic
violent relationship.
Okay, do you have morestatistics?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I don't.
Okay, I don't have any morestatistics.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I think I might be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I'm actually okay with that too.
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So just to wrap up and sort of consolidate, could
you just sort of streamline yourinformation?
So I suppose, risks one moretime for suicide and then
warning signs, I think would bea good one for people to be
(35:39):
aware of.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Okay.
So some of the risk factors themental health, substance use,
impulsivity, hopelessness,isolation, access to the lethal
means, whether it be a firearm,medications, a rope, a car
access restricting access tolethal means.
The psychosocial stressors andthe legal stressors and, most
(36:03):
importantly, especially in IPV,the relationship stressors.
Those are some of the riskfactors.
Some of the signs and symptomswould be the preparatory
behavior, the stockpiling of themedication, seeking access to
lethal means, whether it beresearching where to purchase a
firearm, researching methods,whatever it could be, giving
(36:36):
away items, lack of interest inthings that they used to enjoy,
the isolation.
But when it comes to IPV, someof that isolation may not be in
their option to control.
Those are some of the riskfactors that you can pay
attention to, the risk justbecause are not risk factors.
Some of those are.
Those may be some of the signs,but also know that there may be
(36:56):
zero signs of it and someonepreparing a will that could be a
sign and it could just besomeone being super.
You know, responsible.
Oh, I thought you were going tosay something.
I was going to say responsiblefor you.
Oh, okay, thank you.
Another thing that I would sayis if you are a friend or family
(37:18):
member and you notice some ofthese signs, or you notice
something, or you just have thisfeeling.
Ask, ask that person are youhaving thoughts of suicide?
Do not ask, are you thinkingabout harming yourself?
Because again, that could bethe self-harm, that could be the
cutting which is a maladaptivecoping skill to help deal with
things.
So you need to ask specificallyare you having thoughts of
(37:39):
suicide?
And just because you asksomeone, that it's not going to
put the idea in their head, ifthey have the idea, it is
already there and if they sayyes, it does not mean that
they're going to do it in frontof you.
So you don't need to be scaredof the answer.
If someone does say, yes, I'mhaving thoughts of suicide,
don't leave them alone.
Just sit there, ask what'sgoing on or just be silent and
(38:01):
let them talk, validate,validate, validate, validate,
validate their feelings,validate that.
Yes, that sounds very difficult.
I see that you're thinkingabout suicide and that can be
really scary.
That can be terrifying to havethose thoughts and then try to
encourage, to get them help, andsome of the ways they can get
(38:22):
help in.
One of the immediate ways is anemergency room.
If you're ever having thoughtsof suicide.
You can always go to anemergency room.
You'll get evaluated there.
They won't always keep you.
The only time they will is ifthey think you are at an
imminent risk of hurtingyourself.
Which means if you leave thathospital you are going to go out
and try to complete suicide.
So that's the only way you stay.
(38:43):
You can always voluntarily goinpatient if you want to, and if
you voluntarily go you get avoluntarily leave.
So an emergency room is anoption.
Calling 911 is also an option.
And then I mentioned it earlierthe crisis line.
It is 988, just like 911 is 988.
(39:06):
You can remain anonymous.
If you're a veteran, you candial 988 and then you press one
and that way you get taken tothe military and veterans crisis
line instead of the generalcrisis line.
But they can provide youresources.
They can just be a person tolisten to and again, you can
remain anonymous.
The only way that they wouldtry to find you is if you are
again at risk of imminentlyhurting yourself.
And then SAMHSA, which is theSubstance Abuse and Mental
(39:32):
Health Services AdministrationSorry, I had a blink.
They created a zero suicidetoolkit for providers, community
members, individuals.
I'll send Ingrid the link soshe can put it in her show notes
.
That's a pretty helpful toolkitand can also give you ideas or
options of things that you cando for your family member,
(39:55):
friend, community whatever youfeel like doing, so you can just
have that toolkit, absolutelyokay.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
What are and I I know that healthcare providers and
law enforcement individuals aretrained on this, but what do
they?
For instance, what did they doif they find somebody who
appears to be in immediatecrisis?
So that you know, people canunderstand.
I know you mentioned the ER andthey're not going to hold you
(40:26):
unless they feel that you're animminent threat.
But if somebody wereconsidering suicide and
seriously considering it at thatmoment and they decide to call
law enforcement, what can theyexpect to?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
happen.
It actually depends on whereyou are.
So I have, if you, I've calledwelfare checks on people before
when they had the like how yousaid.
They had the suicidal ideation,they had the intention, which
means when you say intention, itmeans they want to follow
through with it and they knowthat the consequences of their
(41:02):
actions, they know that if theytake all these pills that they
will die.
So if they have that intent andknow the definition of that
intent, so suicidal ideation,intent means.
So when I have called welfarechecks, if it is a busier
metroplex, the police will getthere when they can and it is
(41:23):
very terrifying staying on thephone with someone who has
suicidal ideation, intent andmeans waiting for the police to
show up, and it can take 45minutes.
However, if it's more local andthey have a designated task
force, a mental health taskforce, a crisis team some places
do they can send them out andevaluate them them.
(41:49):
The police will show up,they'll talk to the individual
and, although they are notmental health professionals,
they will assess and they willbase their assessment on what
the person says.
So say you call 911 on someonewho has suicidal ideation,
intent and means and when thepolice show up, they're like no,
I don't, I don't, I'm notplanning on killing myself.
I was just saying that thepolice will not push it any
further.
However, if they continuetalking to the individual and
(42:11):
they feel that person is at riskand needs a further evaluation,
you will get taken to yourclosest emergency room in a
police car.
Sometimes you are handcuffedfor your safety, sometimes you
are not.
It depends on the policedepartment, honestly, and it
varies, but you get taken to theclosest emergency room.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
So, even if you have an emergency room that you
prefer, or a hospital you preferor another one, the police and
the EMS will always take you tothe closest one emergency
department and the professionalsdetermine that they are indeed
a risk, an imminent risk tothemselves, they admit and they
decide that they cannotdischarge them from their
facility If they have thecapacity to hold that individual
(42:59):
like first of all.
If they don't have the capacity, is there a chance that they
get transferred to somewhereelse or the facilities or the
resources to properly treat them?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
What do you mean if they don't have the capacity?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So, for instance, say it's just like a small hospital
.
They don't have the room, northey don't have somebody that
could you know, they don't havelike a psych unit for this
person or they don't have enoughstaff to keep eyes on this
person.
I suppose there would be apotential for them to get
(43:32):
transferred to another facility.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Absolutely, and most emergency rooms do have mental
health rooms, whether it be oneor two, and you would remain on
a one-to-one, which means anurse or some staff at the
hospital would sit with you thewhole time.
If you get brought in by thepolice department or EMS, they
will just so you know.
They will take your belongingsto include your cell phone.
(43:55):
You can't get your cell phoneback to get a phone number if
you need to call a family memberor friend.
However, your belongings gettaken from you and they make
sure that you're in a mentalhealth room.
So there's no risks of youcompleting suicide while you're
in the actual room.
If a person, if the medicalprofessionals think that you
need to be hospitalized and youdo not want to be hospitalized,
(44:19):
they will get a legal warrant.
A detention warrant is what wecall it here in Texas.
You can get a detention orinvoluntary hold.
They get put in front of ajudge and it's a mandatory 72
hour hold.
You cannot be discharged untilthe end of that 72 hours.
That's why I said if you gointo a hospital voluntarily, you
can still voluntarily leave ifyou do get hospitalized.
(44:41):
So that's, there's something toexpect.
But if you go into an emergencyroom on your own, say, a friend
or you bring yourself in.
Most times you can still have.
They'll put you on a one to one, but most times you can still
have access to your phone to beable to call.
Or if you go in with a friend,I have known some emergency
rooms to let the friend orfamily member stay in the room
with you.
(45:02):
One thing I'm so sorry I meantto bring this up earlier is that
there has been research thatsays that someone is suicidal.
From thoughts to actual actionoccurs in less than an hour.
So that's why the lethal meansis so important to put time in
between, so it can last fromfive minutes to an hour from
(45:23):
thought to action.
So if you know or you yourselfare experiencing that even that
initial thought, if you have asafety plan much like a domestic
violence safety plan of whereyou have someone you can call to
distract them some kind ofmusic, movie, go for a walk,
some kind of activity to getyourself out of that.
(45:44):
A safety, a suicidal, some kindof activity to get yourself out
of that.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
A safety, a suicidal, suicide safety plan is another
good tool to have, and that canbe another example of where code
words come into play.
You know, if your abuser's inthe home and you have a trusted
confidant of where you feel likeI have, I have no other option
right now.
You can call them and give yourcode word so that person knows.
(46:08):
Okay, this is the one-hour timeframe I have right now.
I have a question for you.
So you said it could take up to45 minutes and you know,
possibly if it's just reallycrappy places, it could maybe
even take more than 45 minutes.
If you are someone who has beenconfided in this, say you call
(46:33):
me and you say I want tocomplete suicide.
I have the firearm is sittingin my lap right now.
I understand that this is itand I'm not going to come back
from that and this is what Iplan to do.
What do you suggest that personon the other phone do, like you
don't want them to hang upright.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
No, no, stay on the phone with them?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
How do you contact, how do you get law enforcement
and stay on the phone with them?
How do you do all of that If ina professional setting.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
When I've had to do that, I have messaged coworkers
of please call 911 and do awelfare check on this.
So if I was on my personalphone I'd probably put that
person on speaker and textsomeone and say you need to call
911 and have them come to thisaddress.
And that's another thing.
You have to know what thatperson is, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So, and then you just stay on the line until somebody
gets there?
Yes, because the second youhang up.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
That could be alone.
They're alone.
You never want to leave someonewho's suicidal alone.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Okay, well, thank you , jessica.
You're welcome.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
I talked longer than I thought I meant to.
This is what we do.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
This is what happens when our passions collide.
Okay, so in summary again,jessica just went over the not
risk.
Well, you did go over the riskfactors earlier in this episode,
but you did just summarize whatare some clues that somebody
may be considering suicide, andthen you summarized what
(48:19):
somebody should do.
We talked about what couldhappen once help is activated.
Is there anything else you canthink of that we need to bring
up?
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Nothing I can think of.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
So again, I thank you very, very much for taking the
time out of your incredibly busylife to come on and talk.
I I'm not being serious, areyou?
I am you guys.
Jessica works full time.
Her husband works full time.
She has two kids.
(48:58):
We used to have, like I said,we used to have a podcast so
that we kept updated.
It's been on hold for a bit,but we're going to come back.
But I do really appreciate youcoming on here.
I know this is your passion,but it still is a sucky topic,
as is mine.
So I really do appreciate it.
I hope and again, I will listthose resources that Jessica
(49:24):
mentioned in the show notes, aswell as the crisis line, which
is 988.
Super notes, as well as thecrisis line, which is 988.
Super easy 988 for the crisisline.
Can I say?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
thank you for having me on here.
Suicide prevention is a hugepassion of mine and talking
about it is one of the best waysto get the information out.
Talking about suicide makingthat person feel comfortable and
normal to be able to talk toyou about it is huge.
I can't tell you how huge it isJust having someone that they
(49:51):
can confide in and get all theirstuff out.
So talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Once again, jessica, thank you so much.
The links to everything thatshe mentioned, as well as the
crisis line, will be listed inthe show notes and I will be
back next week with anotherepisode for you.
And until then, stay strong and, wherever you are in your
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
(50:16):
Find more information, registeras a guest or leave a review by
going to the websiteonein3podcastcom.
That's the number one.
I-n the number three podcastcom.
Follow One in Three onInstagram, facebook and Twitter
at onein3podcast To help me out.
Please remember to rate, reviewand subscribe.
(50:37):
One in Three is a .5 Pinoyproduction music written and
performed by Tim Crow.
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