July 23, 2025 • 57 mins
What happens when the chaos of abuse finally ends, and you're faced with the possibility of new love? For many survivors, this terrain feels more frightening than familiar.
Dating after domestic violence isn't just about meeting someone new—it's about rewiring your entire understanding of what relationships should feel like. When you've spent years walking on eggshells, genuine kindness can feel suspicious. When you've learned to anticipate mood swings, a stable partner might seem boring. When you've been conditioned to perform gratitude, authentic appreciation feels foreign.
In this enlightening conversation with life coach and podcaster Kimberly Mathis, we unpack the complex reality of finding love after trauma. Rather than offering simplistic advice, we dive into the nuanced challenges: How do you distinguish between legitimate red flags and your own trauma responses? When should you disclose your abuse history? How do you recognize love bombing versus genuine interest?
Kimberly brings both professional expertise and refreshing candor to these questions. "You can't say the wrong thing to the right person," she notes, offering a powerful litmus test for potential partners. The way someone responds to your boundaries, concerns, and authentic self reveals far more than any dating profile ever could.
We explore practical strategies for navigating new relationships, from creating code words with partners to identify when old patterns arise, to recognizing that compatibility matters more than intense feelings. After all, as Kimberly wisely observes, "We can love people who are terrible for us."
Whether you're actively dating, considering returning to the dating world, or simply working to understand healthy relationship dynamics, this episode offers both validation and practical guidance. The journey toward healthy love starts with choosing yourself first—and understanding that you're never "too much" for the right person.
Ready to transform your approach to relationships after abuse? Listen now, and discover how to open your heart again without abandoning your boundaries.
Kimberly's Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/kimberly-mathis/
https://www.kimberlymathis.com/
https://open.spotify.com/show/5HZ9s0n0rfoje9MeOn39TI?si=d32f3d84e6f44b61&nd=1&dlsi=4e881e36108a4e67
https://www.instagram.com/thekimberlymathis/
https://www.facebook.com/thekimberlymathis
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, ingrid.
I've brought you a lot ofinformation over the last two
years on the subject of domesticviolence and in that timeframe
I've welcomed fellow survivors,professionals and advocates to
lend their expertise and theirexperience on the subject.
I've loved every singleopportunity.
(00:21):
Today is no different, althoughtoday's episode does look a
little bit different.
Today we're talking about loveafter abuse how it feels, what
it looks like and how to be okaywith it.
Don't worry, I'm not doing thisby myself.
I am welcoming on Coming on.
(00:41):
Life coach and fellow podcaster.
Host of Life Coached KimberlyMathis.
Hi, kimberly.
Hi, welcome to One in Three.
Thanks for joining me.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
Actually, I'm very, veryexcited.
I know I was just telling youthis, but typically the episodes
(01:01):
I have are a little bit of aheavier topic and we're not
ignoring the domestic violenceor abuse aspect, but this is a
lighter side of it.
It can be a lighter side of it.
I guess it still could be heavy, but we're going to talk about
dating and how that happensafter abuse, because it has to
happen eventually.
(01:21):
But before we get started, doyou mind just kind of giving a
little bit of a background onyourself.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Sure, I was a formerly a licensed marriage and
family therapist in privatepractice for several years and,
as with so many other things,when COVID happened in 2020, it
seemed like a time to pivot.
I'd always wanted to docoaching, so I had recently
finished up a coaching trainingand certification and I
(01:52):
transitioned into that and wasdoing coaching only and, I guess
, the start of 2021.
And so have been a life coachever since, really more of a
general life coach.
I do have a lot of knowledgebecause of my own experience
with getting a later in lifeADHD diagnosis, so I have a lot
(02:14):
of knowledge about working withneurodivergent brains.
But I would say I have workedwith people on anything and
everything, and the underlyingtheme and all of it is helping
them change things that feelvery unchangeable.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So, whether that's relationship dynamics, things
about themselves, their idea ofthemselves, we figure out a way
to move towards that and that, Ithink, is a huge concept of
dating post abuse, because oneyou think this is me.
This is just the type I go for.
I just happened to find thesekind of men or women and, uh, I
(02:54):
mean dating, dating kind ofsucks anyway, um, but yeah, I
think that's a huge concept inpost-abuse dating.
So, yeah, so there were a redflag versus.
(03:25):
Is this just something that I,like my previous trauma is
causing me to think is an issue?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love all of the questions that you
were kind of thinking throughahead of this, um, and I think
one of the things I love aboutthem is something that
frustrates me, um, when I see alot of stuff online, a lot of
things, a lot of content feelsvery black and white and
(03:54):
everything is just so much morenuanced, which is kind of
frustrating when you are reallytrying to do some work on
yourself or improve something,change something.
It'd be so much more helpfuljust to have a very clear cut.
Black and white like this isgood, this is bad, do this,
don't do that.
Um, but life is just way morecomplicated.
(04:16):
People and situations are waymore complex.
So the very first thing Ithought of when I saw this
question like how can I tell thedifference between red flags
and my own trauma responses isthat red flags can be different
for a lot of people.
Some people like there's acompatibility issue that we have
(04:39):
to think about.
So something that like wouldnot work for someone else and
would trigger all sorts ofthings, doesn't have that same
response in someone else.
So the way I think about itlike a red flag versus a trauma
response is experience.
It's, um, then the sensations,the feelings, the thoughts that
(05:08):
are coming up in you, and a redflag, I think, is someone else's
response to you.
So I might say I'm having a lotof anxiety.
You know, like that reallybothered me.
Oof that, something about thatfeels really icky.
I share that with anotherperson.
(05:28):
How they handle thatinformation and respond to it.
Is the red flag or not red flag, red flag or green flag that
I'm looking for?
That makes sense.
Does that make sense it?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
does.
Does that make sense?
It does so.
I mean it really.
It boils down to communicating,being able to communicate with
a person and say you know, thisis, this is me, this is
bothering me, and yeah, yeah,Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yep, and the things that I'm looking for are whether
or not they are dismissive orthey're validating, whether or
not they are trying to talk meout of it really quickly, or
they're just able to like bethere with me while it's
happening and they don't have tonecessarily fix it.
Um, whether they are willing tohave more of a discussion about
(06:18):
it, where they're curious andtrying to understand.
They're not trying to just giveme their opinion or their
perspective.
I'm definitely going to payattention to things like if
they're making me feel silly orbelittled or talked down to or
like I'm crazy.
You know I'm going to be payingattention to those sorts of
(06:38):
things.
That kind of response towhatever is happening within me
is not the kind of response I'mlooking for in a safe partner.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Right, Right, that makes total sense and so okay.
So then I have another questionabout the trauma responses.
So when is it, or is is it everokay to start discussing your
past trauma?
With a partner.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Now my personal opinion is thatif you're going to be in a
relationship with someone andthey're going to have a
significant role in your life,you're looking to build a
long-term partnership withsomeone, they should know about
it because at some point likeit's not like, you either tell
them or you never tell them, andit's got to start at the very
(07:31):
beginning, but at some pointthey should know about it
because it has been such asignificant factor in your life
and who you are and how you arenavigating relationships.
So, yes, I do think you shouldtell them.
Now I think there are layers tothat information and that story
(07:52):
and you can say I do have ahistory of some pretty difficult
relationships, maybe even someabuse.
You could say that early on.
You don't have to get into allof the details of it until
you're ready to.
It makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And probably not like date number one material Right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Right, and I also think it depends a lot on where
you are in your processing of itand your recovery from it.
You know, if it feels like it'sa very fresh, you know wound
that is still, you know, needingto be tended to, like probably
you want to be extra protectivearound it, and that's the way I
(08:39):
think about it.
It's not secretive, we're nottrying to hide it.
There's a difference betweensecrecy and privacy.
Like secrets we're hiding,we're ashamed of them, we don't
feel comfortable with them.
Privacy is protective and weneed to be protective with those
(09:00):
parts of us until we know thatthe other person that we're
sharing them with is a safeperson to share those with and
we'll be respectful and we'll beum, what's the word I'm looking
for?
Like we'll just be anemotionally safe person to hold
that information from us.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Right and I mean, I guess you know if you're really
unsure of you know, if you'restill feeling freshly wounded,
maybe not jump into the datingscene quite yet.
Maybe that's something that youneed to reflect.
Do some more inner reflectionand inner healing before you
jump into involving anotherperson into your life.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
People have a lot of opinions around.
You know how long you should besingle and learning to live
yourself, and and again, I thinkanything that sounds too black
and white is just uh, it'smissing the whole picture.
Um, and I think it's totallysubjective.
It varies for everyone, but atsome point it doesn't matter how
much healing you have done andhow much you care and love about
(10:11):
yourself.
You can't learn to be in ahealthy relationship until
you're in a relationshippracticing all of those skills.
You can't learn it all ahead oftime and then be like, okay,
now I'm ready, right, and thennothing like the relationship
will just go smoothly andeverything's fine and nothing
comes up Like.
Being in relationship withsomeone else is just a
(10:31):
playground for those skills youknow and experimenting with them
and practicing and learning howto do it better, putting it
into practice.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, that I mean.
That makes sense too.
You can't train for datingbefore getting out there.
Just a little bit off topic.
So I know in one of yourepisodes you mentioned I don't
did we say that you have apodcast?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
don't remember.
No, we did Okay, yeah, yeah,yeah, I forgot, I didn't even
think about it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, so go ahead and just say what you have.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I have a podcast.
It used to be called DecisionsChange Everything.
That was a mouthful for me, soI changed it to Life Coach and
you can find it on Spotify orApple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Okay, and so I was listening to one of your
episodes and you had mentionedFacebook dating and I actually
had tried that a little bit.
I had never done online datingbefore and I thought this one
would be pretty easy.
And you can see who if you havemutual friends, then that kind
of helps too.
I had a few friends steer meaway from like no, no, no, not
(11:34):
him.
Oh yeah, yeah.
But I didn't have any awfuldates.
I only went on three firstdates and they all were good.
Three first dates and they allwere good, but I just decided
I'm like I don't think, I just Ijust don't want to date right
now, and and there's obviouslythere's nothing wrong with that,
but I don't think I have anyfresh wounds or I'm not healed
(12:01):
or anything.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
It's just not a place I want to be in right now.
It takes a lot of energy itdoes Like it really does, um,
even if you are not on apps andyou're like just trying to go
out.
It's that process of investingany time and energy,
conversation into another humanbeing and it takes effort, even
(12:23):
on date one or date two.
And if it doesn't go anywhereand that keeps happening over
and over again, that can bereally tiring.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It can.
And then even just theconversations to get to that
first date is just so.
I mean, how many times and Iknow, when you go on a first
date, when you meet somebody outin the wild, it's the same
thing You're getting to knowpeople and you're having the
same conversations over and overagain.
But just the whole online thingwhere I can be having the same
(12:54):
conversation with five differentpeople all at the same time and
I'm just repeating myself overand over again, I just I
couldn't do it.
I thought you know what, let mejust, let me just be okay with
where I am right now.
But so I didn't have, you know,I wasn't having expectations
when I would go on when I wenton these first dates.
(13:15):
So it wasn't like I wasanalyzing anything at all.
But if I were, if I were, maybe, if it was the second date or
even the third date or whatever,and I was feeling actual
feelings for this person andthinking, you know, perhaps we
can start taking this to thenext step.
Next step how do you determineif somebody is genuinely a nice
(13:40):
person, genuinely interested,versus the whole love bombing?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh, I love this question.
I love this question becausewhat I want to emphasize is that
good people engage in lovebombing, like, I think,
originally, when we kind oftalked about this topic, it was
like how do you know if someoneis a good person or if they're
love bombing?
And the fact is, good peoplelove bomb because that kind of
(14:06):
behavior is just a unhealthy,maladaptive behavior and good
people have not greatrelationship skills.
Good people can have very kindhearts and not have learned.
You know healthier ways ofengaging and relating.
Um, so I don't think lovebombing in and of itself is
(14:27):
always evil or bad, but it isalways like maladaptive, it is
always like not exactly healthy.
Um, and I don't know if we needto like review what love
bombing is.
If your audience is like, oh, Iknow what that means.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Maybe actually.
Uh, I'm I'm sure pretty mucheveryone is coming in having a
general idea, but I think thathas been used so much yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, it's just way too much, way too fast.
It's a lot of grandiosestatements Like um, you're the
most amazing woman I've ever metin my life, on, like day three,
you know.
Or um, I just don't want to bewith anybody else, like, or it
could be statements that kind oflike elevate you above them,
like they're.
It feels like they're puttingyou on a pedestal.
(15:18):
You know, I can't believe youwant to go out with me again.
It's just too much.
And listen, I have ADHD.
I have some raging ADHD.
I can go like all in onsomething that for sure is one
of my old patterns just becauseI get so excited, and that in
and of itself isn't a bad thing.
(15:39):
But I think when you are thereceiver of that, and maybe
especially when you have ahistory of like Ooh, I fell for
that Like that really pulled meinto a relationship that was not
good very quickly, I think whenyou have that sense of like oh,
this makes me slightlyuncomfortable.
(15:59):
The thing to do is to bring itup.
The thing to do is to say it'sreally sweet of you, but it's
making me a little uncomfortable.
It just feels like a little toomuch, Like I want to get to
know you better.
Something about it is not okay.
And again, the thing I'mlooking for is how the other
person responds to that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Right.
You know, and there's a yeah,go ahead to that, Right, you
know, and there's a yeah, goahead.
I was going to say there'sprobably a few clues to where
they're not having the responsethat you want.
So they could go down the routeof you know, victim ish, of I
can never do anything, right,I'm so sorry.
Let me try again and almostlike this grovelly yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, or just completely dismiss what you said
and continue doing what they'redoing.
Yep, but yeah, you go ahead.
You're the professional here,I'm just talking.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I was going to say like it's those things, exactly
like that, especially early on,when you don't know a lot about
this person and maybe theirresponse is like I can't do
anything right and I knew, likethis was too good to be true.
That's a no, no for me, becausewhat they are, what that
behavior is doing, is it's likeyou told me something that you
(17:18):
didn't like.
I'm unable to handle that.
So now I'm emotionally likeputting you in a position where
I want you to make me feelbetter.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Right.
And then now you're turninginto comforting them even though
you were the one who feltuncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yes, yep.
So what we want is like more ofa response like, oh my gosh,
thank you for telling me.
Like, yeah, I, I can see that,like I just get so excited, I
really like you, I will tone itdown, I don't want to make you
uncomfortable, and that youactually see some follow through
with that.
(17:55):
That they stop making thosesame sorts of comments, that
they do pull back a little bit,that they aren't pushing as much
Because, again, like I said,some people can be very good
people.
This is how they were in pastrelationships.
Maybe it's how they sawrelationships modeled to them
around them as they were growingup.
(18:16):
They just may not know better.
So it's what they do with theinformation that you give them
about what's making youuncomfortable.
That, I think, matters morethan whether or not they're just
engaging with that off theget-go.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and let's be honest, when you start a new
relationship, everybody is ontheir best behavior.
Yes, and you're putting yourbest foot forward and if you
like the other person, you wantthem to like you back foot
forward and you want, you want.
If you like the other person,you want them to like you back.
So you're going to maybe notshow all your dirty, crazy or
(18:57):
whatever, and so, and that couldbe considered love bombing in a
way of their you know,portraying a different version.
But it's just the consistencyand the repetitive factor.
So when you were saying, youknow, if they scale back and
they change, that's great, butthen you also have to keep an
eye out, for is it going tohappen again in a couple of
weeks?
And then is this a conversationthat keeps happening over and
(19:20):
over and over again?
Then it seems more that they'rejust placating you.
Let me make these changes untilthey forget about this
bothering them and I'll go backto my normal self.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yep, love bombing is just it's um, it tends to feel
like pressure.
It tends to feel a littleuncomfortable, like sure, it's
nice, I want someone to like meso much, but this is like a lot,
you know, like it's um, youknow, I guess it's okay for them
to say those things, but it'smaking me feel a little like
there's just a little somethingthat feels off Um.
(19:54):
A lot of times love bombingwill look like uh, push for a uh
speed of moving forward.
That maybe isn't what you werethinking or just seems a little
too fast.
If it's a great partner for you, it's okay for it to go a
little bit slower.
It's okay if you're like no, Idon't want to spend every waking
(20:16):
minute together at the verystart, when we barely know each
other.
It's okay to have someboundaries.
If they're a good partner foryou, they aren't going to make
your boundaries mean somethingnegative.
They're just going to be likeoh, this is just information for
me.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Okay, sure, yes, and speaking of boundaries, I feel
like they don't, and I'm onlysaying this because I have a
friend who is going throughsomething like this.
They don't need to know whereyou are all the time, really
ever, I think, if you were bothcapable adults.
There's, unless you're goinginto a dangerous area and you
(20:56):
need somebody to make sure thatyou're okay, but on a day-to-day
basis, there's absolutely noreason why anybody needs to know
where you are every minute.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, no, no, every day that immediately in my mind,
that's pinging my radar for,like controlling.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yep, Someone, who is it it?
It gives a vibe of distressedof you, and that is no way to
start off a relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right, and I mean I get that.
You know I'm in my late 40s nowand anybody my age or you know
even plus or minus 10 yearswe're coming to the table with
baggage.
And it's difficult to see likeis he coming with his own
baggage?
Obviously he has his ownbaggage, but is he damaged, has
(21:50):
he been hurt before, and is thatwhy he has this need?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I could like get on a soapbox about this because, as
a recovering people pleasermyself and I'm codependent, like
I have this.
It's probably why I do a lot ofthe work I do and got into it is
I am very empathetic, like Ifeel for people.
I can like really feel whatthey must be feeling when I like
(22:17):
put myself in that situation,have a lot of empathy.
But that his baggage, what hehas been through, ultimately it
does not matter.
It gives you context.
It does not give you an excusefor it.
Like, even if they do have alltheir baggage and you say I
(22:38):
don't want to tell you, I justdon't feel like that's necessary
.
I feel like we're not at thatpoint in our relationship, like
something about it doesn't feelgood to me for you to know where
I am all the time.
If that stirs up things forthem, they need to go talk to a
therapist about it.
They need to go figure out howto manage those feelings,
(22:59):
because what they're essentiallydoing is having a lot of
discomfort with whatever'scoming up for them and they're
wanting you to manage it throughyour behavior.
Right.
Okay, you know like yeah, itwill make me feel better if you
turn on your location all thetime Because I'm insecure, right
?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right and yeah, yeah, and I mean that goes the other
way too.
Like if that's something thatyou know is your issue, that you
need to know where he is or sheis all the time, then that's
another time.
You need to kind of look intoyourself, like, okay, what's
going on here?
Because you know that's notokay.
I shouldn't be controllingsomebody else in the same
(23:40):
respect.
Yep, yep, okay.
So let's say, now you finallyget into a relationship and
things are good, but you're notused to a good relationship.
You're used to chaos and dramaand being second guest and doing
(24:00):
things on your own and havingdifferent expectations.
How do you then accept the goodstuff, like accept the support
and not wonder if there's anulterior motive behind it?
How do you accept theunderstanding and not think that
it's like some sort ofgaslighting happening?
(24:20):
And even if you're not secondguessing the intentions, how do
you just live and understandthat there is another person
that truly cares for you andwants to support you?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, I think you know I've noticed this so much
in my current relationship.
I did a podcast episode on itwhere I had my boyfriend on and
we talked about how difficult ithas been for me to have a
partner that's so supportive andemotionally available and
(24:54):
emotionally intelligent, becauseI'm just not used to it.
And one of the things I noticedthat is an old habit is me
trying to figure out what hereally means or feels, what he's
really thinking.
You know, and part of mylearning has been like that may
come up, like there's.
(25:14):
It's been wired in there for along time.
You know I did that for a longtime, so it may still come up
and I can't get rid of that.
My job is to get a whole lotbetter at recognizing it when
it's coming up and to learn to.
It's almost like a mantra ofsorts that I want to let an
(25:37):
adult be an adult.
It's not my job to figure itout.
It's his job as an adult totell me what he's really
thinking and feeling.
And if he's not doing that, ifhe's lying to me, there's also
not much I can do about that.
Right, I can't be the mindreader.
I can't make him do that.
I can't be on his case.
(25:59):
So if he's lying to me, like atsome point, that will come out
probably, and then I haveinformation that I'm going to
have to make a decision with.
But in the meantime it's muchbetter on my mental health just
to assume the best.
Assume that he is an adult.
If he didn't say X, y or Z, Idon't need to try.
(26:33):
When I have tried to figure itout, when I've, like, pressed
something or push something likeare you sure that's what you
mean, or you know, justruminating about it, I've almost
created a situation, a dynamic,where they didn't have to
figure out how to communicatebecause I was always kind of
(26:53):
doing the work for them.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Does that?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
make sense.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It totally does.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I would pull it out of you.
You know you could be passive,aggressive.
I'm going to be the one thatinitiates and like come on,
let's talk about it to where youfinally have to, instead of
just leaving them be and like ifthey have a problem, they have
to learn to come tell me.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Right and I think the part where I feel like that's
probably going to be a commonissue with anyone who's been in
these abusive relationships,because you get to a point where
you are anticipating theirevery move, their mood, and you
are changing your behavior, whatyou're going to do, what you're
(27:35):
going to say, based on how youthink they're going to react?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yes, so I think, yeah , that's really difficult to
then just relax, yeah, and well,I think it was towards the end
of that podcast episode when mypartner and I were talking where
we, kind of you, had to, like,figure out the perfect way to
(28:13):
say something so that theydidn't get mad or upset.
You know you weren't honest alot of times.
It was very strategic, it wasvery calculated.
You didn't feel like you couldjust be open and transparent and
forthcoming.
So, as soon as possible in anew relationship, that's what
(28:34):
you need to be doing.
You need to be saying the thing, even if you're afraid they
might not like you or they mightdisagree with it or they might
get upset about it.
You need to be as honest aspossible because how they
respond to that again it's likegoing back to the first thing we
talked about.
How they respond to yourhonesty tells you so much about
(28:54):
what kind of partnership they'regoing to be in with you and
they get crazy about it.
Right, if they get super mad,if they don't handle it well, if
they're trying to argue withyou like this is good
information for you to have now.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Right, but yeah, before you get sucked into a
situation where you feel likeyou're stuck.
Yes, yes, I listened to thatepisode and I think you asked
him or you told him what I'mworried, like he liked to cook
for you or he does all thecooking.
He does like all the cooking,yes.
And you said you know, but I'mworried about, like are you
(29:36):
going to one day be upset thatyou're doing all the cooking?
And as soon as you said that, Iwas like, oh my gosh.
Yes, exactly, I would bethinking the exact same thing
Like how do I know?
You're okay with this?
Yeah, you know, and forwhatever, that's not my job.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right, you're okay with this.
Yeah, you know, and forwhatever job, right, like that's
ultimately what it comes downto, is like it's not my job to
anticipate that or figure outwhen that has happened or just
believe that that's going to bethe case.
What my job is is to be an openand receptive partner, to make
communicating with me a safething to do, so that if at some
(30:16):
point he's like you know what,like I'm just tired of doing all
the meals, like can wereevaluate this?
That's a fine conversation tohave, and I also want a
relationship where he knows I'mnot going to try to just figure
that out.
If he doesn't want to do it atsome point, he needs to
communicate that to me, right,like I'm not going to do that
(30:39):
emotional labor for him.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And okay, so this just popped in my head.
So I was, I was sort ofconditioned to always, anytime
something was done, even thoughit was like a partnership and it
was just you know, partners dothings for partners that if I,
if he had done something thatwasn't immediately followed by
over the top gratitude from me,then it was like, did you not
(31:05):
just notice what I did?
Like how come you're not payingattention?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
to what I just did.
Yeah, does that go both ways,like how?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
come you're not paying attention to what I just
did.
Yeah, Does that go both ways?
Right, Right, and that's thething.
Like I would do things and theywould just go.
It was like unnoticed, yeah.
But I think if I were to takeyour situation, if I were in
that situation, I would wonderam I supposed to go over the top
, Like thank you so much forthis meal that you just cooked.
It's the most delicious youknow BLT I've ever?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
had.
What's the difference?
Like if I were to ask you if Ihad no idea what you're talking
about when you say over the top,what would be over the top
gratitude versus gratitude?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Well, instead of like hey, thanks for making dinner
tonight, it was good.
Yeah, it had to be like oh mygosh, this dinner and it could
be something.
A boxed up mac and cheese Likethis is the most delicious mac
and cheese I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, it's better than-.
When you think about doing that, what's the feeling that you're
having?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Oh, it's fake, it's not authentic.
Yes, you know, yeah,performative.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Let's say Right and you have to because you're
afraid of what happens if youdon't Exactly, yeah, that's very
different than I just want tobe a grateful partner.
I don't want to take things forgranted.
So I'm like thanks a lot formaking dinner.
I really appreciate that youmade dinner.
It's really good, you know,like that's what I do, that's
(32:36):
what he does.
Also, because we just want tohave a relationship that we
don't take for granted, that weremember to say like you didn't
have to do all of this.
I want you to know I recognizethat and I appreciate it.
That feels very different than,oh my gosh, like you're just
the best ever.
(32:56):
This is amazing.
I just don't deserve you.
Thank you so much for doingthis and I'm having to do that
every night because I'm afraidof what happens if I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right, yeah, I think that's the relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And you come out, you know a shell of what you used
to be and to figure out how toput all those pieces back
together and figure out who youare, it's like you have to
re-identify your identity andlike you have to know all of
that.
So then you can.
So then you know yourboundaries.
(33:56):
Um, I can't.
I was talking to somebody aboutlike love, and then there,
there really should not beanything as unconditional love,
unless it's like a parent to achild, because unconditional
means no boundaries, right andyep.
Healthy relationships haveboundaries Right and healthy
relationships have boundariesYep.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yep, I was watching I'm a sucker for a reality TV
like trash TV shows where it'slike love is blind, you know,
and the ultimatum, which they'rehorrible when it comes to
relationship stuff Just awfulexamples, right, and something
that I see all the time is likethese people who have really
unhealthy dynamics, like they'rejust not there's like a major
(34:38):
compatibility issue.
They're hurting each other allthe time and they're like but
I'm so in love, like I just lovethem so much.
I've never loved anyone else.
And what I am always thinkingis like we can love people that
are terrible for us.
Like love is not the decidingfactor.
I think too much emphasis isplaced on just the feelings we
have.
(34:58):
Because we can have feelingsfor so many different kinds of
people, that doesn't meanthey're a good fit for us.
Like, when it comes down to it,yes, do I want to love someone,
of course, and do they engagein relationship the same way
that I do?
Do they communicate in a waythat works really well with me?
(35:18):
Do we have similar ways ofexpressing love?
Do we have the same kind ofdaily routines that are going to
mesh well?
Do we want the same things forour lives?
Like it's all of thosecompatibility things that matter
more so than just I havefeelings for them.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
All right, Because I mean you can.
You can love friends, you canlove a lot of people and that
doesn't mean that that's theperson that you should be living
with.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
And yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
The other thing I was going to say about.
You know, the like has been newfor me and my current
relationship is being reallyhonest about when I'm feeling
(36:16):
uncomfortable with it, like whenI notice it being hard, when I
notice it stirring up like anyworries or concerns because in
the past X, y, z happenedbecause you know I wasn't paying
attention, or blah, blah, blah,or it didn't feel okay.
Just being open about that andnot asking them to necessarily
(36:37):
do anything different, but justsaying like I just want you to
know like I'm.
This is a stretch for me, likeI'm practicing, you know, and I
think it helps to have a partnerwho's like that's okay, like we
can go at your pace, totallyfine.
Um, and I even think it can behelpful to have come up with
(36:58):
like code words for like naming,like that's what's happening
here, maybe like he's trying togive me compliments or do
something for me or offersupport, and he doesn't feel
like I'm receiving it, like I'mlike resistant to it or pushing
it away.
He can say the code word it'slike this, it's this one's
(37:19):
happening right now, like isthis thing coming up?
Or vice versa.
It's like he's trying to dosomething and I'm like Ooh, I
noticed it happening in me.
I can just say the code word,so we don't even have to go into
a big discussion about it.
There's nothing to like fix,it's just like oh, let's have a
moment of awareness that, like,there's this thing in the room
(37:41):
with us right now you know, Ilove that.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's that shows like the mutual respect for each
other too, which is super keytoo, which is super key.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Um, cause, it's not really about the like surface
level thing.
Whether it's like financiallyhe wants to help or he's gone
out of his way to do X, y or Z,or he's being really
complimentary, you know,whatever it is, that's the
surface level thing.
So we don't need to get intoany kind of like argument about
that thing and what's okay andwhat's not okay.
It's like underneath that, thesurface level thing is stirring
(38:18):
other stuff up like old stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Right, and I mean, I know I'm carrying around a lot
of old stuff, I'm still intherapy, which is fine, and I
feel like I have a very goodself-awareness.
But you know, just having aconversation once with a friend
who had asked you know, whatwould you do if you're ever
dating somebody and he asks youto quit your job, and
(38:44):
immediately it was like prickly,I'm like no, because I'm
independent and I'm not going todepend on him.
And he said, well, what ifthat's not the intention?
What if the intention is you'rekilling yourself working so
much and I have the financialcapability of taking off some of
that load so you canconcentrate more on whatever?
(39:07):
And I said that sounds a lotbetter.
You know whatever?
And I said that sounds a lotbetter.
But I think I would.
I personally would still havelittle pricklies up and I
wouldn't.
I definitely wouldn't just jumpinto that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah Well, I think the thing I I keep coming back
to is like you don't have toaccept anything.
It doesn't matter how they wantto support you or how they want
to give affection or whatever.
If it doesn't feel like a goodfit for you whether it's just
not a good fit right now, or itmay not ever be a good fit it's
(39:43):
just not what you like.
You don't have to accept orlike anything just because your
partner does.
You can still say like that'sjust a no for me and how they
respond to.
That is everything.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yes, yeah, it's like I would love to but clearly it's
like not your thing.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Okay, right.
If they make it into.
Well, I want to, and clearlyyou won't let me love you Like
you're not letting me take careof you the way I want to, and
clearly you won't let me loveyou Like you're not letting me
take care of you the way I wantto take care of you and you
shouldn't.
It's going to be hurtful to meif you don't like.
That's more of a problem.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, that's not such a good thing.
That's a control issue.
Yeah, yeah, um, and definitelylike in in the initial stages of
dating.
I have told my friends so manytimes I'm like you don't owe
them anything, so you know theywant to go on a second date.
You don't have to say yes to asecond date, or they have
(40:43):
expectations of getting physicalbecause of you know, whatever
preceded that.
You don't owe them anything andin a relationship I think it's
somewhat true, but I wouldn'tsay you don't owe them anything,
like I think you owe a respectand you owe, you know,
(41:04):
consideration of feelings and itdoes adjust a little bit at
that point.
adjust a little bit at thatpoint.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But yeah, but it's.
It's just a different scenario.
When it's early in arelationship and you're not even
in a relationship yet, you know, like dating is not the same as
being in a relationship.
Um, there was something else Iwas just about to say.
Oh, there was a dating coachwho I loved and followed I like
(41:35):
binged her podcast when Istarted dating.
Her name is Lily Womble, andthere's something that she said.
I heard it over and over againin her social media and whatnot
but essentially it's that youcan't say the wrong thing to the
right person.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know.
So if you need boundaries, ifyou say this is making me
uncomfortable, if you say I justdon't want to do that right now
, if they have a big reaction toit, they're just not your right
person, because the rightperson will be like oh, okay,
like you and I might bedifferent, but like okay, this
is not a problem, and I thinkit's easy to to like, get into
(42:14):
this like who's in the right,who's in the wrong?
Kind of scenario, like, oh, hedid something bad, or you should
be more X, y or Z, and I thinkwe just need to do away with
that.
It's just like oh.
So here's more information, andthat information is suggesting
to me that we may have somedifferences that are not
(42:36):
compatible with a long-termrelationship.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Right, like we might be great together in all these
other ways and we fit so welland like on paper we should be
riding off into the sunsettogether.
But in reality I might.
I'm just not the person for you, or you're just not the person
for me.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's just lots.
There's always opportunity topractice stuff.
That's what it is.
And messy One of my coachfriends who coaches on like
marriage and relationships she'sjust always like messy is
better than perfect becausemessy has you out there doing it
(43:18):
.
We're never going to get itperfect and if we keep waiting
for it to be that way before weget started, we never actually
figure it out Right.
Like messy means you're atleast doing it and attempting
and figuring it out, and messyis real, yeah, when we're also
trying to like, do relationshipsdifferently really with
(43:41):
anything, but in particularrelationships, there can also be
a sense of like.
If I didn't state the boundary.
Like if I realized after thefact, right, that like Ooh, that
didn't feel good, ooh, I shouldhave spoken up.
Ooh.
If I realize after the fact,right, that like Ooh, that
didn't feel good, ooh, I shouldhave spoken up.
Ooh, I wanted to have aboundary there and I didn't.
There is no rule book that saysyou can't bring it up after the
fact.
There's no rule book that saysyou can't change your mind.
(44:04):
Something that you said was okayis now not okay.
And again it's like I want toknow how the other person
responds to that conversation.
Like I know I said I was okaywith it, but the more I've been
thinking about it, there's justsomething that feels off and I
actually don't think I like it.
Could we please not do X, y orZ?
Could you not X, y or Z?
(44:26):
You know, I need more ofwhatever turns out and how they
respond If they're like what.
But you said and now you'rejust taking it back and well, I
don't understand why.
It was fine, that's not what wewant.
That's a, that's a big red flag, right, that's a big red X.
We want someone who's like oh,okay, well, like I was kind of
(44:49):
hoping for whatever, but if it'sjust not feeling okay for you
right now, that's not a problem.
Like okay, that'll be fine, wecan reorient.
Like sure, we can go back to X,y or Z.
Right, if you're not havingthat conversation, like it's
okay, if you missed anopportunity, or if you realize,
(45:10):
ooh, it was my old patterncoming up and now I see it
clearly, by all means, go andhave that conversation now that
you've recognized it.
Yes, like that's the messy part, right?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Well, I have a friend who is saying you know, I feel
bad.
He's so nice and he's tryingreally hard.
And I know that I'm a lot.
And I said why are youapologizing for who you are?
And I know I make it hard forhim, I'm just trying to make it
easier.
I'm like, why are you trying tomake it easy for him?
If he actually legitimatelylikes you and the actual, real
(45:49):
you, then it shouldn't be hard.
You're not too much for theright person.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Right, no, I spent so much.
I think it had to do with myundiagnosed ADHD, but my pattern
in relationships was we have tokeep a lid on it, on the too
muchness we have to keep a lidon all the too muchness, because
we need to make sure they likeus first before they see all of
that.
(46:13):
Right, you know, and let out alittle bit at a time once
they're like in and committed.
That was the absolute wrong wayto go about it, because I need
to have all the too muchness outthere from the get go.
Do they like that?
Because that's the only wayit's going to work with me.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yes, you know, I tamped down.
No, I am no One of my friendswho we all kind of jumped into
this Facebook dating thing allat the same time.
We live in different locations,so there was no like cross
whatever.
But we were just comparingnotes and one of them said, hey,
look into this book, it's likea dating app book or whatever.
(46:55):
And so I got the, I downloadedthe Audible and I was listening
to it and I said, okay, I'mhaving a hard time taking advice
from a 20-year-old.
We are at totally differentstages in our lives, you know.
And one of the things that shesaid is you know, make sure they
don't see all of you right outof the gate.
And I was like, well, I mean, Iknow that I can be, you know a
(47:21):
bit much, but that's also me,you know.
I don't want you to find.
Like why am I going to hold offon you finding out now and wait
until two years down the lineand like, okay, now you get to
see the real me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, no, no, no no no, no no, no, no, no, no, no.
There was a.
I was just telling one of myteenage daughters yesterday
about an experience I had onhinge I think it was on hinge
where I matched with a guy andwe were chatting and chatting
(47:58):
seemed to be going well.
We were making plans to maybelike go meet up somewhere, and
then he asked if I was onInstagram and I was like yes,
and he was like well, can I seeyour profile?
And I was like okay, so I sentit.
And then immediately in my body, I was like because I have a
(48:20):
lot of like quirky stuff onInstagram, I dance around, I'm
like I like to be silly, youknow, I just it's very me.
And I had an instant moment ofpanic of like oh no, and I
started to apologize for it.
Like hey, and I started toapologize for it.
Like hey, you know, I know it'sa lot blah, blah, blah.
(48:41):
Next thing, I know my chat hasdisappeared, Uh-huh, and he
unmatched, oh my gosh, whichjust like means it's just
vanished.
You know all the chatting hasvanished and I had such
rejection but, like a lot ofpeople with ADHD have RSD, which
is rejection, sensitivedysphoria, Okay and um.
(49:05):
So, like any perceived rejection, criticism is like a very
physical, like painful, veryintense thing.
It was awful.
It felt awful because I knew hesaw my Instagram, he saw more
of who I was and my personalityand was like that's a no.
That felt terrible at the timeand also like now that I have
(49:25):
some space from it, right like Iboohooed about it.
I called a friend because itjust hurt, did not feel good,
but thank God he weeded himselfout.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Right, because you don't want to be with somebody,
right, I think you also.
I know I didn't like stalk you.
I just listened to your podcast, but you said something about
how you get with your sister andyou're goofy and whatever.
I was cracking up Because mysister and I are so strange.
Yes, and we can be over the top, and I think you mentioned that
(50:00):
your ex Didn't like it when youguys were together.
Oh, no, no, no, and we'vedreaded it.
Yes, we've each been inrelationships where, like our
partners, whether we weremarried to them or not was like
I just yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I was keeping it stuffed in.
Yeah, so when my sister and Iwere together, it finally had a
way to come out Right, and theydid not like that.
And you want to know if someonelike this.
It's very counterintuitive, itdoes not feel like it's the way
it should be.
When you have tried to be apeople pleaser your whole life
(50:35):
and avoided conflict and you'vewanted everyone to like you, but
now like to be in a really goodrelationship and be dating, you
want to know if someone doesn'tlike something.
You want to know if someoneisn't interested.
You want to know if someone islike that's not compatible with
me, like that's not what I'minto.
That's great information andthank God they're being honest
(50:58):
about it so that you don't getattached to someone who's not
going to be a good fit for youand let you be who you are.
Oh yeah, it's not sayingsomething about you is wrong.
It's just not for them, whichmeans someone else is for you.
Yep, I don't want to have tohide any of that for someone
else and to go from I wantsomeone to pick me to yeah, that
(51:23):
feels good, but I need to bedoing the picking, like what I
think and what I want and what Ineed matters a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
That was a big, big shift, yeah yeah, I mean I, I
started looking at life over thelast few years.
I'm like you know what I wouldlove a partner.
And I have, you know, friendswho they're remarried, and you
know I look at them.
I'm like, oh, that's just whata lovely little family and I
(51:53):
would love to have that.
I'm not opposed to it at all,but I'm also not sitting and
pining away for like I have tohave that relationship.
I'm just going to be okay withwhere I am.
And I looked in the mirror onetime and I'm like I choose me.
I'm not going to choose like,let me not be me, so I can fit
(52:16):
into this mold.
So then I can find like theideal partner to live the rest
of my life with.
Like no, I'm actually, I'lljust choose me.
And then at some point somebodyelse is going to choose me too,
maybe, maybe not.
Yeah, but I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I felt kind of bad for a while, like I wondered if
something was wrong with me,because I tend to be a very
independent, self-reliant womanand at the same time there's
this part of me that's like Iwas single technically, I guess.
For maybe I'm usually like aserial monogamist I get into
(52:53):
relationships, I'm in them for awhile and I'm all in, and so I
didn't date for that long and Ididn't swear off dating for that
long after my last relationshipended.
I felt kind of bad about that,like is there something wrong
with me that I can't be aloneand thank God most of my friends
are coaches, because I couldalways like have a coach on
(53:16):
speed dial and it was just like,but what if it's okay that it's
just something I want in mylife, you know, and I just like
being in relationship.
I feel very fulfilled, I feelvery joyful in relationship, so
by all means, go for it.
But how am I going to go for itthis time?
(53:38):
How am I going about it?
Like I don't have to be singleforever.
I don't have to like spend ayou know a certain amount of
time just being single to showmyself I can do it, or anything
like that.
Like I want a relationship.
By all means, go find arelationship.
And am I living my life the wayI want to?
(53:58):
Am I doing things that I enjoy?
Am I being my full self andgetting myself out of the house,
doing things that are ofinterest to me all, while being
open to meeting someone?
Like that's the way to do it.
I didn't make it my sole focus.
I made it very intentional, butit also had to fit into the
(54:20):
life I wanted to have for myself.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Okay, is there anything else that you think can
think of I?
Speaker 2 (54:26):
don't think so.
I mean, there's so many thingsI could talk about.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, same Same.
Maybe we should do this again.
Covered some good stuff.
Yeah, I think so, I think so, Ithink definitely a lot, I'll
get.
Yeah, I'll get some feedback.
Yeah, I think so, I think so, Ithink definitely a lot I'll get
.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, I'll get some feedback and then, if there is
more stuff, then maybe we canhave you back on Before we go
can you just go over like yourpodcast name again and then, if
any-on-one clients, my websiteis KimberlyMathiscom and you can
find me on Facebook andInstagram at the Kimberly Mathis
and my podcast is called LifeCoach on Spotify and Apple, okay
(55:11):
, and I'll have links to all ofthat in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
And then I know you created a guest profile for the
one in three websites, so all ofthat will be there too.
Very easy for people to findyou.
But all of that will be theretoo.
Awesome, very easy for peopleto find you.
But thank you so much forcoming on.
It was nice to have a nicelight episode.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
It's great.
It's an important topic.
I'm very excited.
Thank you All.
Right, okay, bye, bye.
That was a super fun episode torecord.
So thank you again, kimberly,for joining me, and thank all of
you for listening.
The links that Kimberlyreferred to will be found in the
show notes, along with the linkto her one in three website
(55:50):
profile.
I will be back next week withanother episode.
For you, until then, staystrong and, wherever you are in
your journey, always rememberyou are not alone.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Find more information , register as a guest or leave a
review by going to the website.
Onein3podcastcom.
That's the number one, i-n thenumber three podcastcom.
Follow One in Three onInstagram, facebook and Twitter
at one in three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate, review and subscribe.
(56:26):
One in three is a point fivePinoy production music written
and performed by Tim Crow.
Thank you,
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, ingrid.
I've brought you a lot ofinformation over the last two
years on the subject of domesticviolence and in that timeframe
I've welcomed fellow survivors,professionals and advocates to
lend their expertise and theirexperience on the subject.
I've loved every singleopportunity.
(00:21):
Today is no different, althoughtoday's episode does look a
little bit different.
Today we're talking about loveafter abuse how it feels, what
it looks like and how to be okaywith it.
Don't worry, I'm not doing thisby myself.
I am welcoming on Coming on.
(00:41):
Life coach and fellow podcaster.
Host of Life Coached KimberlyMathis.
Hi, kimberly.
Hi, welcome to One in Three.
Thanks for joining me.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
Actually, I'm very, veryexcited.
I know I was just telling youthis, but typically the episodes
(01:01):
I have are a little bit of aheavier topic and we're not
ignoring the domestic violenceor abuse aspect, but this is a
lighter side of it.
It can be a lighter side of it.
I guess it still could be heavy, but we're going to talk about
dating and how that happensafter abuse, because it has to
happen eventually.
(01:21):
But before we get started, doyou mind just kind of giving a
little bit of a background onyourself.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Sure, I was a formerly a licensed marriage and
family therapist in privatepractice for several years and,
as with so many other things,when COVID happened in 2020, it
seemed like a time to pivot.
I'd always wanted to docoaching, so I had recently
finished up a coaching trainingand certification and I
(01:52):
transitioned into that and wasdoing coaching only and, I guess
, the start of 2021.
And so have been a life coachever since, really more of a
general life coach.
I do have a lot of knowledgebecause of my own experience
with getting a later in lifeADHD diagnosis, so I have a lot
(02:14):
of knowledge about working withneurodivergent brains.
But I would say I have workedwith people on anything and
everything, and the underlyingtheme and all of it is helping
them change things that feelvery unchangeable.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So, whether that's relationship dynamics, things
about themselves, their idea ofthemselves, we figure out a way
to move towards that and that, Ithink, is a huge concept of
dating post abuse, because oneyou think this is me.
This is just the type I go for.
I just happened to find thesekind of men or women and, uh, I
(02:54):
mean dating, dating kind ofsucks anyway, um, but yeah, I
think that's a huge concept inpost-abuse dating.
So, yeah, so there were a redflag versus.
(03:25):
Is this just something that I,like my previous trauma is
causing me to think is an issue?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love all of the questions that you
were kind of thinking throughahead of this, um, and I think
one of the things I love aboutthem is something that
frustrates me, um, when I see alot of stuff online, a lot of
things, a lot of content feelsvery black and white and
(03:54):
everything is just so much morenuanced, which is kind of
frustrating when you are reallytrying to do some work on
yourself or improve something,change something.
It'd be so much more helpfuljust to have a very clear cut.
Black and white like this isgood, this is bad, do this,
don't do that.
Um, but life is just way morecomplicated.
(04:16):
People and situations are waymore complex.
So the very first thing Ithought of when I saw this
question like how can I tell thedifference between red flags
and my own trauma responses isthat red flags can be different
for a lot of people.
Some people like there's acompatibility issue that we have
(04:39):
to think about.
So something that like wouldnot work for someone else and
would trigger all sorts ofthings, doesn't have that same
response in someone else.
So the way I think about itlike a red flag versus a trauma
response is experience.
It's, um, then the sensations,the feelings, the thoughts that
(05:08):
are coming up in you, and a redflag, I think, is someone else's
response to you.
So I might say I'm having a lotof anxiety.
You know, like that reallybothered me.
Oof that, something about thatfeels really icky.
I share that with anotherperson.
(05:28):
How they handle thatinformation and respond to it.
Is the red flag or not red flag, red flag or green flag that
I'm looking for?
That makes sense.
Does that make sense it?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
does.
Does that make sense?
It does so.
I mean it really.
It boils down to communicating,being able to communicate with
a person and say you know, thisis, this is me, this is
bothering me, and yeah, yeah,Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yep, and the things that I'm looking for are whether
or not they are dismissive orthey're validating, whether or
not they are trying to talk meout of it really quickly, or
they're just able to like bethere with me while it's
happening and they don't have tonecessarily fix it.
Um, whether they are willing tohave more of a discussion about
(06:18):
it, where they're curious andtrying to understand.
They're not trying to just giveme their opinion or their
perspective.
I'm definitely going to payattention to things like if
they're making me feel silly orbelittled or talked down to or
like I'm crazy.
You know I'm going to be payingattention to those sorts of
(06:38):
things.
That kind of response towhatever is happening within me
is not the kind of response I'mlooking for in a safe partner.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Right, Right, that makes total sense and so okay.
So then I have another questionabout the trauma responses.
So when is it, or is is it everokay to start discussing your
past trauma?
With a partner.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Now my personal opinion is thatif you're going to be in a
relationship with someone andthey're going to have a
significant role in your life,you're looking to build a
long-term partnership withsomeone, they should know about
it because at some point likeit's not like, you either tell
them or you never tell them, andit's got to start at the very
(07:31):
beginning, but at some pointthey should know about it
because it has been such asignificant factor in your life
and who you are and how you arenavigating relationships.
So, yes, I do think you shouldtell them.
Now I think there are layers tothat information and that story
(07:52):
and you can say I do have ahistory of some pretty difficult
relationships, maybe even someabuse.
You could say that early on.
You don't have to get into allof the details of it until
you're ready to.
It makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And probably not like date number one material Right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Right, and I also think it depends a lot on where
you are in your processing of itand your recovery from it.
You know, if it feels like it'sa very fresh, you know wound
that is still, you know, needingto be tended to, like probably
you want to be extra protectivearound it, and that's the way I
(08:39):
think about it.
It's not secretive, we're nottrying to hide it.
There's a difference betweensecrecy and privacy.
Like secrets we're hiding,we're ashamed of them, we don't
feel comfortable with them.
Privacy is protective and weneed to be protective with those
(09:00):
parts of us until we know thatthe other person that we're
sharing them with is a safeperson to share those with and
we'll be respectful and we'll beum, what's the word I'm looking
for?
Like we'll just be anemotionally safe person to hold
that information from us.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Right and I mean, I guess you know if you're really
unsure of you know, if you'restill feeling freshly wounded,
maybe not jump into the datingscene quite yet.
Maybe that's something that youneed to reflect.
Do some more inner reflectionand inner healing before you
jump into involving anotherperson into your life.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
People have a lot of opinions around.
You know how long you should besingle and learning to live
yourself, and and again, I thinkanything that sounds too black
and white is just uh, it'smissing the whole picture.
Um, and I think it's totallysubjective.
It varies for everyone, but atsome point it doesn't matter how
much healing you have done andhow much you care and love about
(10:11):
yourself.
You can't learn to be in ahealthy relationship until
you're in a relationshippracticing all of those skills.
You can't learn it all ahead oftime and then be like, okay,
now I'm ready, right, and thennothing like the relationship
will just go smoothly andeverything's fine and nothing
comes up Like.
Being in relationship withsomeone else is just a
(10:31):
playground for those skills youknow and experimenting with them
and practicing and learning howto do it better, putting it
into practice.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, that I mean.
That makes sense too.
You can't train for datingbefore getting out there.
Just a little bit off topic.
So I know in one of yourepisodes you mentioned I don't
did we say that you have apodcast?
I?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
don't remember.
No, we did Okay, yeah, yeah,yeah, I forgot, I didn't even
think about it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, so go ahead and just say what you have.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I have a podcast.
It used to be called DecisionsChange Everything.
That was a mouthful for me, soI changed it to Life Coach and
you can find it on Spotify orApple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Okay, and so I was listening to one of your
episodes and you had mentionedFacebook dating and I actually
had tried that a little bit.
I had never done online datingbefore and I thought this one
would be pretty easy.
And you can see who if you havemutual friends, then that kind
of helps too.
I had a few friends steer meaway from like no, no, no, not
(11:34):
him.
Oh yeah, yeah.
But I didn't have any awfuldates.
I only went on three firstdates and they all were good.
Three first dates and they allwere good, but I just decided
I'm like I don't think, I just Ijust don't want to date right
now, and and there's obviouslythere's nothing wrong with that,
but I don't think I have anyfresh wounds or I'm not healed
(12:01):
or anything.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
It's just not a place I want to be in right now.
It takes a lot of energy itdoes Like it really does, um,
even if you are not on apps andyou're like just trying to go
out.
It's that process of investingany time and energy,
conversation into another humanbeing and it takes effort, even
(12:23):
on date one or date two.
And if it doesn't go anywhereand that keeps happening over
and over again, that can bereally tiring.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It can.
And then even just theconversations to get to that
first date is just so.
I mean, how many times and Iknow, when you go on a first
date, when you meet somebody outin the wild, it's the same
thing You're getting to knowpeople and you're having the
same conversations over and overagain.
But just the whole online thingwhere I can be having the same
(12:54):
conversation with five differentpeople all at the same time and
I'm just repeating myself overand over again, I just I
couldn't do it.
I thought you know what, let mejust, let me just be okay with
where I am right now.
But so I didn't have, you know,I wasn't having expectations
when I would go on when I wenton these first dates.
(13:15):
So it wasn't like I wasanalyzing anything at all.
But if I were, if I were, maybe, if it was the second date or
even the third date or whatever,and I was feeling actual
feelings for this person andthinking, you know, perhaps we
can start taking this to thenext step.
Next step how do you determineif somebody is genuinely a nice
(13:40):
person, genuinely interested,versus the whole love bombing?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh, I love this question.
I love this question becausewhat I want to emphasize is that
good people engage in lovebombing, like, I think,
originally, when we kind oftalked about this topic, it was
like how do you know if someoneis a good person or if they're
love bombing?
And the fact is, good peoplelove bomb because that kind of
(14:06):
behavior is just a unhealthy,maladaptive behavior and good
people have not greatrelationship skills.
Good people can have very kindhearts and not have learned.
You know healthier ways ofengaging and relating.
Um, so I don't think lovebombing in and of itself is
(14:27):
always evil or bad, but it isalways like maladaptive, it is
always like not exactly healthy.
Um, and I don't know if we needto like review what love
bombing is.
If your audience is like, oh, Iknow what that means.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Maybe actually.
Uh, I'm I'm sure pretty mucheveryone is coming in having a
general idea, but I think thathas been used so much yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, it's just way too much, way too fast.
It's a lot of grandiosestatements Like um, you're the
most amazing woman I've ever metin my life, on, like day three,
you know.
Or um, I just don't want to bewith anybody else, like, or it
could be statements that kind oflike elevate you above them,
like they're.
It feels like they're puttingyou on a pedestal.
(15:18):
You know, I can't believe youwant to go out with me again.
It's just too much.
And listen, I have ADHD.
I have some raging ADHD.
I can go like all in onsomething that for sure is one
of my old patterns just becauseI get so excited, and that in
and of itself isn't a bad thing.
(15:39):
But I think when you are thereceiver of that, and maybe
especially when you have ahistory of like Ooh, I fell for
that Like that really pulled meinto a relationship that was not
good very quickly, I think whenyou have that sense of like oh,
this makes me slightlyuncomfortable.
(15:59):
The thing to do is to bring itup.
The thing to do is to say it'sreally sweet of you, but it's
making me a little uncomfortable.
It just feels like a little toomuch, Like I want to get to
know you better.
Something about it is not okay.
And again, the thing I'mlooking for is how the other
person responds to that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Right.
You know, and there's a yeah,go ahead to that, Right, you
know, and there's a yeah, goahead.
I was going to say there'sprobably a few clues to where
they're not having the responsethat you want.
So they could go down the routeof you know, victim ish, of I
can never do anything, right,I'm so sorry.
Let me try again and almostlike this grovelly yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, or just completely dismiss what you said
and continue doing what they'redoing.
Yep, but yeah, you go ahead.
You're the professional here,I'm just talking.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I was going to say like it's those things, exactly
like that, especially early on,when you don't know a lot about
this person and maybe theirresponse is like I can't do
anything right and I knew, likethis was too good to be true.
That's a no, no for me, becausewhat they are, what that
behavior is doing, is it's likeyou told me something that you
(17:18):
didn't like.
I'm unable to handle that.
So now I'm emotionally likeputting you in a position where
I want you to make me feelbetter.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Right.
And then now you're turninginto comforting them even though
you were the one who feltuncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yes, yep.
So what we want is like more ofa response like, oh my gosh,
thank you for telling me.
Like, yeah, I, I can see that,like I just get so excited, I
really like you, I will tone itdown, I don't want to make you
uncomfortable, and that youactually see some follow through
with that.
(17:55):
That they stop making thosesame sorts of comments, that
they do pull back a little bit,that they aren't pushing as much
Because, again, like I said,some people can be very good
people.
This is how they were in pastrelationships.
Maybe it's how they sawrelationships modeled to them
around them as they were growingup.
(18:16):
They just may not know better.
So it's what they do with theinformation that you give them
about what's making youuncomfortable.
That, I think, matters morethan whether or not they're just
engaging with that off theget-go.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and let's be honest, when you start a new
relationship, everybody is ontheir best behavior.
Yes, and you're putting yourbest foot forward and if you
like the other person, you wantthem to like you back foot
forward and you want, you want.
If you like the other person,you want them to like you back.
So you're going to maybe notshow all your dirty, crazy or
(18:57):
whatever, and so, and that couldbe considered love bombing in a
way of their you know,portraying a different version.
But it's just the consistencyand the repetitive factor.
So when you were saying, youknow, if they scale back and
they change, that's great, butthen you also have to keep an
eye out, for is it going tohappen again in a couple of
weeks?
And then is this a conversationthat keeps happening over and
(19:20):
over and over again?
Then it seems more that they'rejust placating you.
Let me make these changes untilthey forget about this
bothering them and I'll go backto my normal self.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yep, love bombing is just it's um, it tends to feel
like pressure.
It tends to feel a littleuncomfortable, like sure, it's
nice, I want someone to like meso much, but this is like a lot,
you know, like it's um, youknow, I guess it's okay for them
to say those things, but it'smaking me feel a little like
there's just a little somethingthat feels off Um.
(19:54):
A lot of times love bombingwill look like uh, push for a uh
speed of moving forward.
That maybe isn't what you werethinking or just seems a little
too fast.
If it's a great partner for you, it's okay for it to go a
little bit slower.
It's okay if you're like no, Idon't want to spend every waking
(20:16):
minute together at the verystart, when we barely know each
other.
It's okay to have someboundaries.
If they're a good partner foryou, they aren't going to make
your boundaries mean somethingnegative.
They're just going to be likeoh, this is just information for
me.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Okay, sure, yes, and speaking of boundaries, I feel
like they don't, and I'm onlysaying this because I have a
friend who is going throughsomething like this.
They don't need to know whereyou are all the time, really
ever, I think, if you were bothcapable adults.
There's, unless you're goinginto a dangerous area and you
(20:56):
need somebody to make sure thatyou're okay, but on a day-to-day
basis, there's absolutely noreason why anybody needs to know
where you are every minute.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, no, no, every day that immediately in my mind,
that's pinging my radar for,like controlling.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yep, Someone, who is it it?
It gives a vibe of distressedof you, and that is no way to
start off a relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right, and I mean I get that.
You know I'm in my late 40s nowand anybody my age or you know
even plus or minus 10 yearswe're coming to the table with
baggage.
And it's difficult to see likeis he coming with his own
baggage?
Obviously he has his ownbaggage, but is he damaged, has
(21:50):
he been hurt before, and is thatwhy he has this need?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I could like get on a soapbox about this because, as
a recovering people pleasermyself and I'm codependent, like
I have this.
It's probably why I do a lot ofthe work I do and got into it is
I am very empathetic, like Ifeel for people.
I can like really feel whatthey must be feeling when I like
(22:17):
put myself in that situation,have a lot of empathy.
But that his baggage, what hehas been through, ultimately it
does not matter.
It gives you context.
It does not give you an excusefor it.
Like, even if they do have alltheir baggage and you say I
(22:38):
don't want to tell you, I justdon't feel like that's necessary
.
I feel like we're not at thatpoint in our relationship, like
something about it doesn't feelgood to me for you to know where
I am all the time.
If that stirs up things forthem, they need to go talk to a
therapist about it.
They need to go figure out howto manage those feelings,
(22:59):
because what they're essentiallydoing is having a lot of
discomfort with whatever'scoming up for them and they're
wanting you to manage it throughyour behavior.
Right.
Okay, you know like yeah, itwill make me feel better if you
turn on your location all thetime Because I'm insecure, right
?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right and yeah, yeah, and I mean that goes the other
way too.
Like if that's something thatyou know is your issue, that you
need to know where he is or sheis all the time, then that's
another time.
You need to kind of look intoyourself, like, okay, what's
going on here?
Because you know that's notokay.
I shouldn't be controllingsomebody else in the same
(23:40):
respect.
Yep, yep, okay.
So let's say, now you finallyget into a relationship and
things are good, but you're notused to a good relationship.
You're used to chaos and dramaand being second guest and doing
(24:00):
things on your own and havingdifferent expectations.
How do you then accept the goodstuff, like accept the support
and not wonder if there's anulterior motive behind it?
How do you accept theunderstanding and not think that
it's like some sort ofgaslighting happening?
(24:20):
And even if you're not secondguessing the intentions, how do
you just live and understandthat there is another person
that truly cares for you andwants to support you?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, I think you know I've noticed this so much
in my current relationship.
I did a podcast episode on itwhere I had my boyfriend on and
we talked about how difficult ithas been for me to have a
partner that's so supportive andemotionally available and
(24:54):
emotionally intelligent, becauseI'm just not used to it.
And one of the things I noticedthat is an old habit is me
trying to figure out what hereally means or feels, what he's
really thinking.
You know, and part of mylearning has been like that may
come up, like there's.
(25:14):
It's been wired in there for along time.
You know I did that for a longtime, so it may still come up
and I can't get rid of that.
My job is to get a whole lotbetter at recognizing it when
it's coming up and to learn to.
It's almost like a mantra ofsorts that I want to let an
(25:37):
adult be an adult.
It's not my job to figure itout.
It's his job as an adult totell me what he's really
thinking and feeling.
And if he's not doing that, ifhe's lying to me, there's also
not much I can do about that.
Right, I can't be the mindreader.
I can't make him do that.
I can't be on his case.
(25:59):
So if he's lying to me, like atsome point, that will come out
probably, and then I haveinformation that I'm going to
have to make a decision with.
But in the meantime it's muchbetter on my mental health just
to assume the best.
Assume that he is an adult.
If he didn't say X, y or Z, Idon't need to try.
(26:33):
When I have tried to figure itout, when I've, like, pressed
something or push something likeare you sure that's what you
mean, or you know, justruminating about it, I've almost
created a situation, a dynamic,where they didn't have to
figure out how to communicatebecause I was always kind of
(26:53):
doing the work for them.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Does that?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
make sense.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It totally does.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I would pull it out of you.
You know you could be passive,aggressive.
I'm going to be the one thatinitiates and like come on,
let's talk about it to where youfinally have to, instead of
just leaving them be and like ifthey have a problem, they have
to learn to come tell me.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Right and I think the part where I feel like that's
probably going to be a commonissue with anyone who's been in
these abusive relationships,because you get to a point where
you are anticipating theirevery move, their mood, and you
are changing your behavior, whatyou're going to do, what you're
(27:35):
going to say, based on how youthink they're going to react?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yes, so I think, yeah , that's really difficult to
then just relax, yeah, and well,I think it was towards the end
of that podcast episode when mypartner and I were talking where
we, kind of you, had to, like,figure out the perfect way to
(28:13):
say something so that theydidn't get mad or upset.
You know you weren't honest alot of times.
It was very strategic, it wasvery calculated.
You didn't feel like you couldjust be open and transparent and
forthcoming.
So, as soon as possible in anew relationship, that's what
(28:34):
you need to be doing.
You need to be saying the thing, even if you're afraid they
might not like you or they mightdisagree with it or they might
get upset about it.
You need to be as honest aspossible because how they
respond to that again it's likegoing back to the first thing we
talked about.
How they respond to yourhonesty tells you so much about
(28:54):
what kind of partnership they'regoing to be in with you and
they get crazy about it.
Right, if they get super mad,if they don't handle it well, if
they're trying to argue withyou like this is good
information for you to have now.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Right, but yeah, before you get sucked into a
situation where you feel likeyou're stuck.
Yes, yes, I listened to thatepisode and I think you asked
him or you told him what I'mworried, like he liked to cook
for you or he does all thecooking.
He does like all the cooking,yes.
And you said you know, but I'mworried about, like are you
(29:36):
going to one day be upset thatyou're doing all the cooking?
And as soon as you said that, Iwas like, oh my gosh.
Yes, exactly, I would bethinking the exact same thing
Like how do I know?
You're okay with this?
Yeah, you know, and forwhatever, that's not my job.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right, you're okay with this.
Yeah, you know, and forwhatever job, right, like that's
ultimately what it comes downto, is like it's not my job to
anticipate that or figure outwhen that has happened or just
believe that that's going to bethe case.
What my job is is to be an openand receptive partner, to make
communicating with me a safething to do, so that if at some
(30:16):
point he's like you know what,like I'm just tired of doing all
the meals, like can wereevaluate this?
That's a fine conversation tohave, and I also want a
relationship where he knows I'mnot going to try to just figure
that out.
If he doesn't want to do it atsome point, he needs to
communicate that to me, right,like I'm not going to do that
(30:39):
emotional labor for him.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And okay, so this just popped in my head.
So I was, I was sort ofconditioned to always, anytime
something was done, even thoughit was like a partnership and it
was just you know, partners dothings for partners that if I,
if he had done something thatwasn't immediately followed by
over the top gratitude from me,then it was like, did you not
(31:05):
just notice what I did?
Like how come you're not payingattention?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
to what I just did.
Yeah, does that go both ways,like how?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
come you're not paying attention to what I just
did.
Yeah, Does that go both ways?
Right, Right, and that's thething.
Like I would do things and theywould just go.
It was like unnoticed, yeah.
But I think if I were to takeyour situation, if I were in
that situation, I would wonderam I supposed to go over the top
, Like thank you so much forthis meal that you just cooked.
It's the most delicious youknow BLT I've ever?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
had.
What's the difference?
Like if I were to ask you if Ihad no idea what you're talking
about when you say over the top,what would be over the top
gratitude versus gratitude?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Well, instead of like hey, thanks for making dinner
tonight, it was good.
Yeah, it had to be like oh mygosh, this dinner and it could
be something.
A boxed up mac and cheese Likethis is the most delicious mac
and cheese I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, it's better than-.
When you think about doing that, what's the feeling that you're
having?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Oh, it's fake, it's not authentic.
Yes, you know, yeah,performative.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Let's say Right and you have to because you're
afraid of what happens if youdon't Exactly, yeah, that's very
different than I just want tobe a grateful partner.
I don't want to take things forgranted.
So I'm like thanks a lot formaking dinner.
I really appreciate that youmade dinner.
It's really good, you know,like that's what I do, that's
(32:36):
what he does.
Also, because we just want tohave a relationship that we
don't take for granted, that weremember to say like you didn't
have to do all of this.
I want you to know I recognizethat and I appreciate it.
That feels very different than,oh my gosh, like you're just
the best ever.
(32:56):
This is amazing.
I just don't deserve you.
Thank you so much for doingthis and I'm having to do that
every night because I'm afraidof what happens if I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right, yeah, I think that's the relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And you come out, you know a shell of what you used
to be and to figure out how toput all those pieces back
together and figure out who youare, it's like you have to
re-identify your identity andlike you have to know all of
that.
So then you can.
So then you know yourboundaries.
(33:56):
Um, I can't.
I was talking to somebody aboutlike love, and then there,
there really should not beanything as unconditional love,
unless it's like a parent to achild, because unconditional
means no boundaries, right andyep.
Healthy relationships haveboundaries Right and healthy
relationships have boundariesYep.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yep, I was watching I'm a sucker for a reality TV
like trash TV shows where it'slike love is blind, you know,
and the ultimatum, which they'rehorrible when it comes to
relationship stuff Just awfulexamples, right, and something
that I see all the time is likethese people who have really
unhealthy dynamics, like they'rejust not there's like a major
(34:38):
compatibility issue.
They're hurting each other allthe time and they're like but
I'm so in love, like I just lovethem so much.
I've never loved anyone else.
And what I am always thinkingis like we can love people that
are terrible for us.
Like love is not the decidingfactor.
I think too much emphasis isplaced on just the feelings we
have.
(34:58):
Because we can have feelingsfor so many different kinds of
people, that doesn't meanthey're a good fit for us.
Like, when it comes down to it,yes, do I want to love someone,
of course, and do they engagein relationship the same way
that I do?
Do they communicate in a waythat works really well with me?
(35:18):
Do we have similar ways ofexpressing love?
Do we have the same kind ofdaily routines that are going to
mesh well?
Do we want the same things forour lives?
Like it's all of thosecompatibility things that matter
more so than just I havefeelings for them.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
All right, Because I mean you can.
You can love friends, you canlove a lot of people and that
doesn't mean that that's theperson that you should be living
with.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
And yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
The other thing I was going to say about.
You know, the like has been newfor me and my current
relationship is being reallyhonest about when I'm feeling
(36:16):
uncomfortable with it, like whenI notice it being hard, when I
notice it stirring up like anyworries or concerns because in
the past X, y, z happenedbecause you know I wasn't paying
attention, or blah, blah, blah,or it didn't feel okay.
Just being open about that andnot asking them to necessarily
(36:37):
do anything different, but justsaying like I just want you to
know like I'm.
This is a stretch for me, likeI'm practicing, you know, and I
think it helps to have a partnerwho's like that's okay, like we
can go at your pace, totallyfine.
Um, and I even think it can behelpful to have come up with
(36:58):
like code words for like naming,like that's what's happening
here, maybe like he's trying togive me compliments or do
something for me or offersupport, and he doesn't feel
like I'm receiving it, like I'mlike resistant to it or pushing
it away.
He can say the code word it'slike this, it's this one's
(37:19):
happening right now, like isthis thing coming up?
Or vice versa.
It's like he's trying to dosomething and I'm like Ooh, I
noticed it happening in me.
I can just say the code word,so we don't even have to go into
a big discussion about it.
There's nothing to like fix,it's just like oh, let's have a
moment of awareness that, like,there's this thing in the room
(37:41):
with us right now you know, Ilove that.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's that shows like the mutual respect for each
other too, which is super keytoo, which is super key.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Um, cause, it's not really about the like surface
level thing.
Whether it's like financiallyhe wants to help or he's gone
out of his way to do X, y or Z,or he's being really
complimentary, you know,whatever it is, that's the
surface level thing.
So we don't need to get intoany kind of like argument about
that thing and what's okay andwhat's not okay.
It's like underneath that, thesurface level thing is stirring
(38:18):
other stuff up like old stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Right, and I mean, I know I'm carrying around a lot
of old stuff, I'm still intherapy, which is fine, and I
feel like I have a very goodself-awareness.
But you know, just having aconversation once with a friend
who had asked you know, whatwould you do if you're ever
dating somebody and he asks youto quit your job, and
(38:44):
immediately it was like prickly,I'm like no, because I'm
independent and I'm not going todepend on him.
And he said, well, what ifthat's not the intention?
What if the intention is you'rekilling yourself working so
much and I have the financialcapability of taking off some of
that load so you canconcentrate more on whatever?
(39:07):
And I said that sounds a lotbetter.
You know whatever?
And I said that sounds a lotbetter.
But I think I would.
I personally would still havelittle pricklies up and I
wouldn't.
I definitely wouldn't just jumpinto that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah Well, I think the thing I I keep coming back
to is like you don't have toaccept anything.
It doesn't matter how they wantto support you or how they want
to give affection or whatever.
If it doesn't feel like a goodfit for you whether it's just
not a good fit right now, or itmay not ever be a good fit it's
(39:43):
just not what you like.
You don't have to accept orlike anything just because your
partner does.
You can still say like that'sjust a no for me and how they
respond to.
That is everything.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yes, yeah, it's like I would love to but clearly it's
like not your thing.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Okay, right.
If they make it into.
Well, I want to, and clearlyyou won't let me love you Like
you're not letting me take careof you the way I want to, and
clearly you won't let me loveyou Like you're not letting me
take care of you the way I wantto take care of you and you
shouldn't.
It's going to be hurtful to meif you don't like.
That's more of a problem.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, that's not such a good thing.
That's a control issue.
Yeah, yeah, um, and definitelylike in in the initial stages of
dating.
I have told my friends so manytimes I'm like you don't owe
them anything, so you know theywant to go on a second date.
You don't have to say yes to asecond date, or they have
(40:43):
expectations of getting physicalbecause of you know, whatever
preceded that.
You don't owe them anything andin a relationship I think it's
somewhat true, but I wouldn'tsay you don't owe them anything,
like I think you owe a respectand you owe, you know,
(41:04):
consideration of feelings and itdoes adjust a little bit at
that point.
adjust a little bit at thatpoint.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But yeah, but it's.
It's just a different scenario.
When it's early in arelationship and you're not even
in a relationship yet, you know, like dating is not the same as
being in a relationship.
Um, there was something else Iwas just about to say.
Oh, there was a dating coachwho I loved and followed I like
(41:35):
binged her podcast when Istarted dating.
Her name is Lily Womble, andthere's something that she said.
I heard it over and over againin her social media and whatnot
but essentially it's that youcan't say the wrong thing to the
right person.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know.
So if you need boundaries, ifyou say this is making me
uncomfortable, if you say I justdon't want to do that right now
, if they have a big reaction toit, they're just not your right
person, because the rightperson will be like oh, okay,
like you and I might bedifferent, but like okay, this
is not a problem, and I thinkit's easy to to like, get into
(42:14):
this like who's in the right,who's in the wrong?
Kind of scenario, like, oh, hedid something bad, or you should
be more X, y or Z, and I thinkwe just need to do away with
that.
It's just like oh.
So here's more information, andthat information is suggesting
to me that we may have somedifferences that are not
(42:36):
compatible with a long-termrelationship.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Right, like we might be great together in all these
other ways and we fit so welland like on paper we should be
riding off into the sunsettogether.
But in reality I might.
I'm just not the person for you, or you're just not the person
for me.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's just lots.
There's always opportunity topractice stuff.
That's what it is.
And messy One of my coachfriends who coaches on like
marriage and relationships she'sjust always like messy is
better than perfect becausemessy has you out there doing it
(43:18):
.
We're never going to get itperfect and if we keep waiting
for it to be that way before weget started, we never actually
figure it out Right.
Like messy means you're atleast doing it and attempting
and figuring it out, and messyis real, yeah, when we're also
trying to like, do relationshipsdifferently really with
(43:41):
anything, but in particularrelationships, there can also be
a sense of like.
If I didn't state the boundary.
Like if I realized after thefact, right, that like Ooh, that
didn't feel good, ooh, I shouldhave spoken up.
Ooh.
If I realize after the fact,right, that like Ooh, that
didn't feel good, ooh, I shouldhave spoken up.
Ooh, I wanted to have aboundary there and I didn't.
There is no rule book that saysyou can't bring it up after the
fact.
There's no rule book that saysyou can't change your mind.
(44:04):
Something that you said was okayis now not okay.
And again it's like I want toknow how the other person
responds to that conversation.
Like I know I said I was okaywith it, but the more I've been
thinking about it, there's justsomething that feels off and I
actually don't think I like it.
Could we please not do X, y orZ?
Could you not X, y or Z?
(44:26):
You know, I need more ofwhatever turns out and how they
respond If they're like what.
But you said and now you'rejust taking it back and well, I
don't understand why.
It was fine, that's not what wewant.
That's a, that's a big red flag, right, that's a big red X.
We want someone who's like oh,okay, well, like I was kind of
(44:49):
hoping for whatever, but if it'sjust not feeling okay for you
right now, that's not a problem.
Like okay, that'll be fine, wecan reorient.
Like sure, we can go back to X,y or Z.
Right, if you're not havingthat conversation, like it's
okay, if you missed anopportunity, or if you realize,
(45:10):
ooh, it was my old patterncoming up and now I see it
clearly, by all means, go andhave that conversation now that
you've recognized it.
Yes, like that's the messy part, right?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Well, I have a friend who is saying you know, I feel
bad.
He's so nice and he's tryingreally hard.
And I know that I'm a lot.
And I said why are youapologizing for who you are?
And I know I make it hard forhim, I'm just trying to make it
easier.
I'm like, why are you trying tomake it easy for him?
If he actually legitimatelylikes you and the actual, real
(45:49):
you, then it shouldn't be hard.
You're not too much for theright person.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Right, no, I spent so much.
I think it had to do with myundiagnosed ADHD, but my pattern
in relationships was we have tokeep a lid on it, on the too
muchness we have to keep a lidon all the too muchness, because
we need to make sure they likeus first before they see all of
that.
(46:13):
Right, you know, and let out alittle bit at a time once
they're like in and committed.
That was the absolute wrong wayto go about it, because I need
to have all the too muchness outthere from the get go.
Do they like that?
Because that's the only wayit's going to work with me.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yes, you know, I tamped down.
No, I am no One of my friendswho we all kind of jumped into
this Facebook dating thing allat the same time.
We live in different locations,so there was no like cross
whatever.
But we were just comparingnotes and one of them said, hey,
look into this book, it's likea dating app book or whatever.
(46:55):
And so I got the, I downloadedthe Audible and I was listening
to it and I said, okay, I'mhaving a hard time taking advice
from a 20-year-old.
We are at totally differentstages in our lives, you know.
And one of the things that shesaid is you know, make sure they
don't see all of you right outof the gate.
And I was like, well, I mean, Iknow that I can be, you know a
(47:21):
bit much, but that's also me,you know.
I don't want you to find.
Like why am I going to hold offon you finding out now and wait
until two years down the lineand like, okay, now you get to
see the real me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, no, no, no no no, no no, no, no, no, no, no.
There was a.
I was just telling one of myteenage daughters yesterday
about an experience I had onhinge I think it was on hinge
where I matched with a guy andwe were chatting and chatting
(47:58):
seemed to be going well.
We were making plans to maybelike go meet up somewhere, and
then he asked if I was onInstagram and I was like yes,
and he was like well, can I seeyour profile?
And I was like okay, so I sentit.
And then immediately in my body, I was like because I have a
(48:20):
lot of like quirky stuff onInstagram, I dance around, I'm
like I like to be silly, youknow, I just it's very me.
And I had an instant moment ofpanic of like oh no, and I
started to apologize for it.
Like hey, and I started toapologize for it.
Like hey, you know, I know it'sa lot blah, blah, blah.
(48:41):
Next thing, I know my chat hasdisappeared, Uh-huh, and he
unmatched, oh my gosh, whichjust like means it's just
vanished.
You know all the chatting hasvanished and I had such
rejection but, like a lot ofpeople with ADHD have RSD, which
is rejection, sensitivedysphoria, Okay and um.
(49:05):
So, like any perceived rejection, criticism is like a very
physical, like painful, veryintense thing.
It was awful.
It felt awful because I knew hesaw my Instagram, he saw more
of who I was and my personalityand was like that's a no.
That felt terrible at the timeand also like now that I have
(49:25):
some space from it, right like Iboohooed about it.
I called a friend because itjust hurt, did not feel good,
but thank God he weeded himselfout.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Right, because you don't want to be with somebody,
right, I think you also.
I know I didn't like stalk you.
I just listened to your podcast, but you said something about
how you get with your sister andyou're goofy and whatever.
I was cracking up Because mysister and I are so strange.
Yes, and we can be over the top, and I think you mentioned that
(50:00):
your ex Didn't like it when youguys were together.
Oh, no, no, no, and we'vedreaded it.
Yes, we've each been inrelationships where, like our
partners, whether we weremarried to them or not was like
I just yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I was keeping it stuffed in.
Yeah, so when my sister and Iwere together, it finally had a
way to come out Right, and theydid not like that.
And you want to know if someonelike this.
It's very counterintuitive, itdoes not feel like it's the way
it should be.
When you have tried to be apeople pleaser your whole life
(50:35):
and avoided conflict and you'vewanted everyone to like you, but
now like to be in a really goodrelationship and be dating, you
want to know if someone doesn'tlike something.
You want to know if someoneisn't interested.
You want to know if someone islike that's not compatible with
me, like that's not what I'minto.
That's great information andthank God they're being honest
(50:58):
about it so that you don't getattached to someone who's not
going to be a good fit for youand let you be who you are.
Oh yeah, it's not sayingsomething about you is wrong.
It's just not for them, whichmeans someone else is for you.
Yep, I don't want to have tohide any of that for someone
else and to go from I wantsomeone to pick me to yeah, that
(51:23):
feels good, but I need to bedoing the picking, like what I
think and what I want and what Ineed matters a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
That was a big, big shift, yeah yeah, I mean I, I
started looking at life over thelast few years.
I'm like you know what I wouldlove a partner.
And I have, you know, friendswho they're remarried, and you
know I look at them.
I'm like, oh, that's just whata lovely little family and I
(51:53):
would love to have that.
I'm not opposed to it at all,but I'm also not sitting and
pining away for like I have tohave that relationship.
I'm just going to be okay withwhere I am.
And I looked in the mirror onetime and I'm like I choose me.
I'm not going to choose like,let me not be me, so I can fit
(52:16):
into this mold.
So then I can find like theideal partner to live the rest
of my life with.
Like no, I'm actually, I'lljust choose me.
And then at some point somebodyelse is going to choose me too,
maybe, maybe not.
Yeah, but I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I felt kind of bad for a while, like I wondered if
something was wrong with me,because I tend to be a very
independent, self-reliant womanand at the same time there's
this part of me that's like Iwas single technically, I guess.
For maybe I'm usually like aserial monogamist I get into
(52:53):
relationships, I'm in them for awhile and I'm all in, and so I
didn't date for that long and Ididn't swear off dating for that
long after my last relationshipended.
I felt kind of bad about that,like is there something wrong
with me that I can't be aloneand thank God most of my friends
are coaches, because I couldalways like have a coach on
(53:16):
speed dial and it was just like,but what if it's okay that it's
just something I want in mylife, you know, and I just like
being in relationship.
I feel very fulfilled, I feelvery joyful in relationship, so
by all means, go for it.
But how am I going to go for itthis time?
(53:38):
How am I going about it?
Like I don't have to be singleforever.
I don't have to like spend ayou know a certain amount of
time just being single to showmyself I can do it, or anything
like that.
Like I want a relationship.
By all means, go find arelationship.
And am I living my life the wayI want to?
(53:58):
Am I doing things that I enjoy?
Am I being my full self andgetting myself out of the house,
doing things that are ofinterest to me all, while being
open to meeting someone?
Like that's the way to do it.
I didn't make it my sole focus.
I made it very intentional, butit also had to fit into the
(54:20):
life I wanted to have for myself.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Okay, is there anything else that you think can
think of I?
Speaker 2 (54:26):
don't think so.
I mean, there's so many thingsI could talk about.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, same Same.
Maybe we should do this again.
Covered some good stuff.
Yeah, I think so, I think so, Ithink definitely a lot, I'll
get.
Yeah, I'll get some feedback.
Yeah, I think so, I think so, Ithink definitely a lot I'll get
.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, I'll get some feedback and then, if there is
more stuff, then maybe we canhave you back on Before we go
can you just go over like yourpodcast name again and then, if
any-on-one clients, my websiteis KimberlyMathiscom and you can
find me on Facebook andInstagram at the Kimberly Mathis
and my podcast is called LifeCoach on Spotify and Apple, okay
(55:11):
, and I'll have links to all ofthat in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
And then I know you created a guest profile for the
one in three websites, so all ofthat will be there too.
Very easy for people to findyou.
But all of that will be theretoo.
Awesome, very easy for peopleto find you.
But thank you so much forcoming on.
It was nice to have a nicelight episode.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
It's great.
It's an important topic.
I'm very excited.
Thank you All.
Right, okay, bye, bye.
That was a super fun episode torecord.
So thank you again, kimberly,for joining me, and thank all of
you for listening.
The links that Kimberlyreferred to will be found in the
show notes, along with the linkto her one in three website
(55:50):
profile.
I will be back next week withanother episode.
For you, until then, staystrong and, wherever you are in
your journey, always rememberyou are not alone.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Find more information , register as a guest or leave a
review by going to the website.
Onein3podcastcom.
That's the number one, i-n thenumber three podcastcom.
Follow One in Three onInstagram, facebook and Twitter
at one in three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate, review and subscribe.
(56:26):
One in three is a point fivePinoy production music written
and performed by Tim Crow.
Thank you,
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