August 13, 2025 • 47 mins
Resilience takes many forms, but few journeys demonstrate its power quite like Julie Barth's story of survival and transformation. After losing her first husband to pancreatic cancer while raising four children including a special needs daughter, Julie found herself vulnerable and seeking escape from grief. This led her directly into the arms of an emotional abuser who would spend the next decade systematically dismantling her confidence, isolating her from support systems, and convincing her she was "crazy."
With remarkable candor, Julie reveals the insidious nature of emotional and financial abuse. She describes how her abuser would deliberately provoke her until she reacted, then use those reactions as evidence of her instability—even going so far as to strategically place chairs around their property to watch her break down and record her at vulnerable moments. These calculated actions served to further isolate Julie and make her question her own sanity. The financial manipulation was equally devastating, as her abuser sabotaged household items, refused to contribute financially, and created obstacles that prevented her from maintaining stability for her children.
What makes Julie's story particularly powerful is her insight into why people stay in abusive relationships. "Everyone always asks, 'Why did you stay so long?'" she reflects. "But from the inside, when you're making that choice, you feel like you're going to lose everything if you leave." Julie's breaking point finally came when her son confronted her about the impact her abuser was having on the family—a moment of clarity that pushed her to choose her children's wellbeing over her fear of the unknown.
Today, Julie has transformed her painful experiences into purpose through the Colin James Barth Outreach, named after her first husband. The organization aims to help women in crisis before they lose everything, recognizing that support systems often only offer help after someone has hit rock bottom. Through her books, advocacy work, and direct support to women in need, Julie embodies the resilience she hopes to inspire in others.
Listen to this episode if you've ever felt trapped in a situation that seemed impossible to escape, or if you want to understand how to support someone who might be experiencing abuse.
Julie's Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/julie-barth/
https://www.juliebarthauthor.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Notes-BlackBerry-Julie-Barth/dp/B0CY6DMP5W
https://www.instagram.com/julie_barth_author/
https://www.facebook.com/julie.e.barth/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliebarthauthor/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
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- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Warriors, Welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, Ingrid.
I'm honored to introducetoday's guest, Julie Barth.
Julie is here to share herpowerful story, one marked by
loss, abuse and the kind ofresilience that only presents
itself when it becomes your onlyoption.
Through her healing journey,Julie discovered a deeper
(00:24):
purpose to help those who arewalking a similar path.
So, instead of me telling youeverything, I'm going to let
Julie speak for herself.
Here she is.
Hi, Julie.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Hey Ingrid, it's nice to behere.
Thank you for having me.
I'm very appreciative of yourtime and your topic.
So, before we jump into allthat, do you mind just giving a
(00:47):
brief background, or maybe notso brief?
You have quite a bit to talkabout of.
You know what brought you here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sure.
So I am the mother of six and Iopened up a charity a couple of
years ago to help women incrisis.
I have had a pretty longhistory as far as my adult life
has pretty much been full ofcaregiving and I have a special
needs daughter.
I lost my first husband, whowas like my best friend growing
(01:16):
up, to pancreatic cancer when wehad four very small children.
So I know all the complexitiesof caregiving while also trying
to be a parent and then, after Igot past that, he passed.
He actually ended up living 16months, which was a blessing in
some ways.
They told him he would have twoweeks to live, so yeah, so we
(01:39):
were able to get him for a lotlonger than that, but I think
anyone who's a caregiver knowsthat you hate even saying that
some of it was a curse, butthere were some hard fought
months at the end there.
So after getting out of that,after he passed, I kind of just
wanted to put it behind me.
I had a special needs daughterthat I fought for four years
just trying to get her.
(01:59):
You know to be at a point wherewe knew she was going to make
it, and all of you know thesurgeries that came with that
and finding out about hergenetics, and so it was really
just a decade of, you know, firedrills and bouncing from one
thing to the next and I kind of,when he passed away, I just
wanted to like move, be gone,you know, not think about it,
(02:20):
and while everyone else is juststarting to grieve, you know, I
think I was like I, you know,every day was a grief, you know
griefing process of losing himjust a little bit more.
So, you know, I think that Ikind of just picked up and I
left my family behind and I metsomebody who I married and that
was, I think, really just areaction to trying to not
(02:43):
acknowledge the first situationin Duckett.
I just wanted to run away fromit, but I quickly found out that
you, you know, people say likeyou can't run from your problems
and it sounds very cliche butit's true.
So yeah, that's kind of just alittle synopsis.
There's a lot of ups and downsin the first 10 years and
following that, which is mysecond book is focused on, is I
was in an extremely emotionallyabusive relationship and I never
(03:07):
would have thought that I wouldhave been where I'm at.
You know, I fought to get myfirst husband to, you know, to
help him be here.
And my special needs daughter,you know, I was always in the,
in the, in the brain, trying tomake her better and fighting and
just being so involved.
And then I went from thatstraight to this person that I
didn't even recognize.
So it was like Julie had leftthe building.
(03:28):
I found myself doing reallystupid, silly things, crying and
just things that were veryuncharacteristic of myself.
So I think that's why my lifeand my goals now are committed
to helping women in differentfinancial situations, different
emotional states, different firedrills that they find
themselves in life.
Whether it's being the mom to aspecial needs daughter who
(03:50):
couldn't get vaccines because wecouldn't afford them, or, you
know, caring for a loved onewhen you have four other kids.
Our charity is based on tryingto get women to a position where
they don't have to loseeverything.
The way it's structured now,you have to like be so, you know
, and it's kind of sad becauseyou're like, oh, I'm in poverty,
that's amazing.
(04:10):
And you're like, wait a second,I'm in poverty.
So, yeah, we're trying to catchthem before they get to that
point, because you shouldn'thave to give everything away
before someone's like oh, nowyou have nothing will help.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We just don't think that's a fruitful way to go
about charities and really boostpeople when they need to most.
I think that when you helppeople when they've hit bottom,
it becomes more of a almost likethey're dependent.
Now They've lost theirindependence and it's harder to
then create a life beyond that.
Pancreatic cancer is terribleand I'm very sorry that you went
through that.
(04:47):
I'm a medical provider so Iknow that it's very difficult
for caregivers and you'reappreciative of that time.
But then that time also kind ofdraws out the pain that you see
your loved one go through and Iknow that's a difficult process
.
It leaves you almost in a stateof vulnerability and more, I
(05:11):
guess, exposed to somebody thatcan take advantage of somebody
in that kind of a situation, andit happens quite a bit that
people then end up inrelationships with an individual
who ends up being abusive.
How long were you guys married?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It was a long decade, I can honestly say.
You know.
We lived together for about sixyears until you know it was
like unbearable and he startedtraveling for work.
So I was blessed in the factthat he wasn't around.
I had two small children withhim and then I had four from my
first marriage.
Everyone always says, why didyou stay so long?
(05:53):
And I think that anybody goingthrough it knows you're staying
for a reason, but you're notquite sure what that reason is.
You know, unfortunately, theonly way to survive these
relationships is to get out ofthem.
But from the outside, where itlooks so clear like you should
leave, you're in dangerInternally.
(06:13):
When you're a caregiver and amom and you have all these
issues from whatever baggageyou've been through it's usually
attachment disorders, peoplelike emotionally abusive people.
They can pick out that personthat is, you know, bleeding, who
is just wants everyone to behappy to please, or they're very
(06:34):
good at finding the pleaser.
They're very good at findingsomeone who you know is broken
in some ways and just needswants somebody there to support
them and unfortunately you endup losing everything you have in
these relationships and youcan't see it.
So it's so clear on the outside, you know, you know it, but
making taking that step justseems like you're going to, you
(06:57):
know, lose everything, and soyou stay stuck in it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, and I think it's especially more difficult
when you have children involved,especially if that individual
is their father and he was fortwo of them, and it's an
insidious kind of thing thathappens.
It's not like he just comes inwith abuse, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I can honestly say there was something about him,
because everyone is alwaysasking me what are red flags.
But I think what I've come tolearn most about, the best
advice that I can honestly saythere was something about him,
because everyone is alwaysasking me you know what are red
flags?
That I think what I've come tolearn most about the best advice
that I can give to people is Idon't need to tell them these
red flags Like you know them.
If you're Googling it, ifyou're searching, if you're like
you know, all the time oncomputer trying to figure out
what's going on in myrelationship, what's wrong, your
(07:42):
brain is saying there'ssomething not right about this
relationship or you wouldn't belooking.
I think you know taking that onestep of getting out of it.
You know there's that's thecomplexity in it, because if you
do that you feel like you'regoing to lose everything.
You know you're probably tiedto them financially, you're tied
to them economically and you'vedone some pretty stupid stuff.
(08:02):
You know they get you to reactso that you do really stupid,
crazy things and then they'relike see, you're crazy and you
can't.
You know you can't disagreewith them because the things
that I was doing, like chasingand crying and telling him to
get out and begging him to comeback.
Those were all very crazythings, you know, whatever crazy
looks like, but again you knowthere's no, they keep telling
(08:27):
you you're the problem.
You are doing things that makeyourself the problem.
So if you expose somebody andsay I want to get out of this,
you also have to kind of takethat veil off of yourself and
admit all the things you've done.
And that's a hard pill toswallow too.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's a reactive abuse , Like what they do is they poke
at you until you have thisexplosive moment and it's oh, I
hate it.
I know that my abuser would dothat and would just sit back
with a smirk on his face and say, look at you, Wow, Wow, Look at
(09:02):
that reaction, You're crazy.
And then I would believe it.
I would sit there and think, ohmy God, I can't believe.
I just screamed like that oryou know whatever.
And I actually probably amcrazy and I think you know you
kind of are.
You've lost the semblance ofwho you are at that point.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And you will do anything tostop feeling the way that you're
feeling, whether that is you'reafraid of them leaving, whether
that means like I just don'twant to have to deal with the
enormity of finding a job andmoving out.
And you know they, theypurposely set you up and they
get you so in, in in a grain, insomething that, although it
(09:43):
looks so easy for other peopleon the outside like just leave,
you know, on the inside you,just when I ended up getting
divorced, I found several chairsthat were stationed all around
my house and I would go outsideon the front porch when I would
get very upset because I didn'twant the kids to see me cry, and
I would just fall apart on thefront porch, you know, texting
(10:03):
and crying and begging.
And it wasn't until after heleft that I noticed that he,
like skillfully placed chairsbehind trees and behind the gate
so that he could see me while Iwas falling apart because he
gained so much pleasure fromwatching me.
So just bottomed out,distressed.
And then it got to the pointwhere he was taping me, he was
(10:26):
videotaping me, he was takingthe text messages that I was
sending him and he was sendingthem out to his friends.
So he was making this case thatshe's crazy.
And I played right into itbecause from the outside I look
crazy.
When I read through some of thetexts that he was giving to the
(10:47):
court I was like what was Ithinking?
But in the moment it literallyfeels like you're going to die
if you do not make this work andyou do everything to stick with
it.
So, yeah, I mean it's a veryterrible dynamic to be in and
again, I think these people arevery masterful and they know
what will just like make you dowhatever they want.
(11:11):
And again, you know they don'tcome in saying I'm going to hate
your kids.
I'm going to treat them, youknow.
But you do know something's up,because these people do not
operate like everyone else.
You know, I think mine was thathe never wanted to hear me talk
about my first husband.
When everyone else was tryingto get me to slow down, to
grieve, to talk through it, Iwas like nope, nope, nope and I
(11:32):
thought that him not wanting tohear about it was that, oh, like
he's just trying to give mespace and it took me probably
two years to recognize he reallyjust didn't care.
He didn't want to hear me, hedidn't want my problems, he
didn't want to shoulder anyburdens.
He literally was like justdon't talk.
And then by the time I wasready to talk it was pretty much
(11:53):
known don't you're stop being.
He used to say you can'tcontrol your emotions.
You can't control your emotions.
And you know, I was like Ididn't realize that emotions
were to be controlled and I kindof do.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I was like if you knew what I'd like to be doing
right now.
I'm controlling them prettywell.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
They have no idea the amount of control that we have.
Yes, I would agree with youthere.
Only, during certain parts, youknow and I think that that's a
cycle of these things is thatyou feel so helpless and you're
bottomed out and you're like, ohmy gosh, I just can't do
another moment, and right whenyou're about to leave, you know
he would come back and he'd saystuff like, well, fine, if you
(12:34):
really want this to, if youreally want to make it work, if
you're, if you want, you know,if, if you're going to keep
begging me even when I wasn't,he just knew that he was gotten
to that point where I was goingto walk, and then he would just
flip it around and you know, itwas like I always say, it was
like someone was choking me out,and just as I was about to take
my last breath, he would likelet go, and it almost felt like
(12:56):
he was the one saving me, which,you know, the person that's
literally trying to kill meturns himself into the savior,
like within an hour of, you know, this entire blow up fight.
I'm thinking I made this all upin my head.
So, yeah, I mean it's.
It's crazy literally to be inthat and not be able to see it.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yes, and I had a guest on and I'm not going to
make an assumption of narcissismgoing on, but you know, because
it is definitely an overusedtopic but it sounds pretty darn
close.
But she came on to talk aboutnarcissistic personality
disorder and she said that itgets to a point where you know
(13:38):
they do the breakdown, build youback up, breakdown, build you
back up, but then the cycle gets.
You're so into the cycle whereyou're on the floor and they've
broken you down and then justthe fact that they're not
unleashing abuse actually seemslike a gift.
At that point it's not evenapologies anymore or anything
(14:00):
like that, it's just the factthat you get to breathe for a
second and you're like, oh he'sa good guy because he's letting
me breathe and I can do this.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, See, I knew that I was looking at it wrong,
but now that I see it can befixed, I'm going to go right
back into trying to fix it evenmore.
Yeah, and that's the thing islike it becomes.
It becomes less and less aboutwhat's going on and more about
the rapidity of the cycle.
You know where it was, thisdrawn out cycle.
You know it would be like twoweeks of him not talking to me,
(14:32):
and then he would kind of benice to me and I was like, oh,
and then he would be nice to youfor like a week and then he
would start all over again.
Yeah, and it just becomesexhausting and you don't even
see it.
You just kind of are in themotion of waiting for the uptick
so that you can breathe again.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Absolutely, oh.
And then you see how kind theyare to everyone else and how you
know even giving are helpful,and then you think it really
actually must be me if he canact like that with everyone else
, and it's just me.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yep, my car broke down and I had my mother, who's
in her eighties, I had mydaughter, who was, you know,
before 10 years old, and my sonand we were in second Atlanta
and I was driving his truck andit broke down and he wouldn't
come get us, like he would just.
He was like just wait for it.
It took us like seven hours andwe were in a horrible part of
(15:24):
town and he would not come getus.
But the very next day hisparents' car breaks down, like
45 minutes from our house, andhe's like out the door going to
pick them up.
And I'm thinking, you know.
And then he would say to mewell, if you didn't let the gas
run down, that's you.
Why am I going to clean up afteryour stupidity?
You know, and run down, that'syou.
Why am I going to clean upafter your stupidity?
(15:44):
And it was one of those likebut you're so willing to step in
for everybody else, but when itcomes to me, you're being
ridiculous.
Calm down, you're being way tooemotional If you weren't so
stupid you wouldn't put yourselfin this position.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
This is your fault and you begin to believe it.
You mentioned also some afinancial component, and
financial abuse is definitely athing.
I'm sure pretty much everybodycan figure out what that means.
But do you mind just sort ofgoing into a little bit more
detail what that looks like?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I think a lot of people think about like, yeah
, sure, the house.
You know a lot of people sharea house and if you're a
stay-at-home mom, you know Iwasn't technically, I worked
still but you know, when you'resharing stuff with somebody you
don't even know how much they'retaking care of until they start
, you know, taking back thosethings or not caring for them.
(16:38):
So you know, we first movedhere all of a sudden I was
responsible for everything, andthen the yard work because he
didn't want to do that, and thenthis, and then that, and so I
started seeing that I was sostuck in my house I couldn't
sell it because he was supposedto refinish it but he didn't
want to.
He gave up, he wasn'tcontributing any money.
So I can't sell my housebecause it's in ill repair, but
(16:59):
I can't repair it because Idon't have any money.
And then we were on the kids,were on state aid because we had
six kids and there's no.
I mean that would be like$1,500, if not more, a month.
So the kids are on Medicaid.
Well, he refused to hand in anyof his IRS forms every year.
So I would be on the phone likefighting with people saying like
(17:20):
I cannot, because my specialneeds daughter was one of those
people and I was like I cannotlet this lapse and I would just
cry.
And they were like he has toget his stuff in.
Well, of course he didn't wantto turn his stuff in, because
then I would know how much hewas making.
So you know, not only it wasall of these things like if you
don't want to contribute, it'snot okay, but I can, I can do
(17:40):
with that but not only was henot contributing, he was
actually messing things up onpurpose.
And then when I would call andI would cry and I would tell
these people like I can't losemy medical and he would hear me
yelling at people He'd be likeGod, see how mean you are to
people, like you think you owneveryone, you think that you're
so entitled and I'm sittingthere thinking I'm just trying
to save my kid's medicalinsurance, or I'm just trying to
(18:11):
save my kid's medical insurance, or I'm just trying to save my
daughter's disability, but hewould throw.
He just had this way of throwingthings in my path so that I
would trip up, no matter whatthat was.
It took me years.
I went through probably likeseven lawnmowers in my backyard
and I finally recognized that itwas because he was taking
breaths and he was throwing themdown in different places so
that when I cut the lawn I wouldgo over them and it would break
the.
I mean, that is the level ofdepravity that this man was
(18:32):
capable of.
That I refuse to see.
You know, I would make excusesfor it.
I would probably do thatbecause one of the dogs was, you
know, digging or.
I just refuse to see how truly,and you know, and to your talk
of narcissism, I get very upsetwith my girls and boys.
They're on social media andthey're like you're gaslighting
(18:53):
me and I'm like girls you don'teven know what gaslighting is.
Yeah, I'm like you are dilutinghow seriously dangerous these
individuals are.
When you lump people and saylike, when you use it as such,
like a term, it loses its truetoxicity.
Like it is a dangerous,dangerous term relationship to
(19:16):
get into somebody who hasnarcissistic personality
disorder.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
And it's not just a matter of somebody's trying to
pull one over on you.
That and that's whatgaslighting is.
It's the manipulation and thecomplete.
I mean you just you have noidea what your reality is
anymore and you're so confusedand you're so lost.
It's dismissing.
You know, overreacting I hadthat all the time You're
(19:42):
overreacting, You're soemotional, you need to pull
yourself together, kind of thing.
Or you know, I was just kidding.
I didn't really mean that.
I don't know why.
I was just kidding.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Why are you so sensitive?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
You're so sensitive?
Take a joke, can't you?
You know nobody else would havebeen so sensitive, or just even
denying things like thathappened.
I would never say that.
Why would you think I would saysomething like that?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I know, yeah, it's a horrible thing or making
up stuff you said, and I'm likeI never said that, yeah, you did
no, really, and it doesn't evensound like something.
I would say.
No-transcript for them to dothat.
(20:43):
I think a lot of people arejust so quick to say there's
something wrong with them ifthey react that way, and not
that we all should get a passwhen we behave badly.
You know that's a completelydifferent subject.
But narcissists definitely havea way of I mean they're they're
very, very good at painting youto be something and then
(21:07):
pushing your buttons to makesure that you show every aspect
of what they're claiming you do.
And they're also very good atum accusing you of doing the
very things they're doing, whichconfuses the heck out of me.
You know like, yeah, everythingthat he claimed when he came
after me during the divorce.
You know everything that he wasclaiming.
I was like that's you.
You know he was saying that Iwas abusing dogs.
I'm like I would never abuse adog.
(21:28):
I mean, that's where I draw itline, like I would never abuse a
dog Like he gives me a lot ofstuff, but I would never abuse a
dog.
Right, yeah, so yeah, and it isthe thing that they know will
also make you fall into line,because they know you want
people to see you as a goodperson and they know that you
care what people think andthat's what they use against you
(21:50):
.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Well, how did you get out actually?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So, as I said, I had four from the first marriage.
He actually left one time andhe went to the lawyer and he
must've found out that he wasn'tgoing to get anything.
So after about six months cameback, said oh, I really want
this to work.
And from that point on hestarted videotaping me and, like
I said, sending my texts outand messages out, set me up for
(22:15):
stuff you know, said like I needyou to go see the psychologist
because you're crazy.
And if you do that, so by thetime you know, finally, I think
I kicked him out three or fourtimes, but I kept letting him
come back in.
And at the very last time my son, who is the third youngest, he
said to me mom, I don'tunderstand why you keep letting
(22:37):
him come back.
He said he's threatened to killyou, he's threatened to kill me
.
I've lost my childhood overthis.
I don't leave my room, I'mafraid of him.
And, you know, in that verymoment I realized that if I
couldn't get out of it formyself, I at least had to get
out of it for my kids.
And that was the end of it.
That was the beginning of theend.
But he came after me and said Iwas a drug addict, an alcoholic
(23:01):
, that I was bipolar personality.
Whatever it was, I was crazy,crazy, crazy and luckily it was
a battle.
But the truth always does comeout.
But unfortunately it takes youthousands of dollars, your
reputation and a whole lot ofyears off your life to get it.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, and I know some people who have had to move
just because that.
But yeah, the smear campaignbecause it got so bad that they
couldn't stay in the same townthey were living in because
everybody's looking at her likeshe's the bad guy and you know,
difficulty doing anything there.
(23:43):
I mean, some people have a hardtime finding a job because they
believe all these lies that aretold.
And it's again when you knowall these social media
individuals are overusing theterms.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
it really minimizes the effect that it takes on
people and it destroys literallydestroys lives and yeah there
came a point where you know andthat's one of when people ask me
for, like, what's my biggestadvice?
I did, I lost everything, youknow, and I hung on as long as I
(24:15):
did because I was so afraid ofwhat people are going to know.
People would know what went onin my house, that people are
going to see that crazy textmessages or that you know,
somehow I was going to be atfault and you know.
I think that the only way toget out of these relationships
is for one to accept that, yes,you might lose everything, but I
think that everything that Ilost I either didn't have to
(24:38):
begin with or it was the verything keeping me stuck.
When you talk about losing, youknow people in your community.
I lost all my childhood friends.
I did move away from my homeand he was going back there and
talk about a smear campaign,telling everyone I was crazy,
sending my text messages,telling everyone I wouldn't let
him see his kids and the peoplethat I grew up with that I had
(24:59):
known my whole life.
I can't say that they ever saidanything to my face, but it was
very quiet behind the scenesand I didn't really even try and
reach out.
When I left, I just that was it.
I had to be okay with losingwhat I lost and what I found out
was that on the other side ofit I'm so sorry that it took me
(25:21):
so long to do it A and B there'snothing you can do to change
what's happened.
Whatever's happened hashappened.
You just need to move forward,because you can't fix it, you
can't change it, and the moreyou try, I always say it's like
a sweater.
You pull on that string and allof a sudden there's no sweater
left.
You just keep pulling andpulling and pulling, and that's
(25:42):
the way these relationshipscannot, in any way, shape or
form, be healthy.
I have, you know, read, you knowthere's that back and forth
that.
Can you be with an narcissist?
Can you?
In my own head, if you have toask that question, that is
someone that is not healthy foryou, because you shouldn't ever
ask can I be in a relationshipwith somebody that inherently
(26:03):
says you're going to need to putout more than you should?
I mean, why would you want to,can you?
I suppose anybody can, but isthat what you want out of your
life?
And I can't imagine that anybodyliving in that kind of fear.
It's a constant fear.
It's a constant like fire drilladrenaline.
(26:23):
What's he doing now?
What's he going to do?
How's this going to come backon me?
Because you know it's just amatter of time.
You know it is so.
As hard as all of those thingsare.
Just remember that it doesn't.
The only person you'reresponsible to is yourself.
I would say your kids too to acertain degree.
But don't worry about whatother people think, or whether
they're going to believe you orif they're going to think you're
(26:45):
at fault.
It doesn't matter.
Even if you are at fault, evenif you are the narcissist, let's
just say case in point fine, Iwill admit, I'm a narcissist.
I still got to walk away.
I can't do this anymore, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Right Well, and I mean you just kind of have to
assume that you are going towalk out of the relationship
without having a relationshipwith other people that you did.
You are going to lose people.
Some people lose family membersover these relationships.
But the important thing is thatabuse is going to escalate,
(27:19):
it's not going to get better,it's not going to ever go away,
it's going to get worse andyou're going to lose more and
more and more of yourself.
And I just can't stress itenough that the first to say I
did not leave when I should have, I stayed in a lot longer than
(27:43):
I should have and it escalatedto a point where I think
everyone does have, like yousaid, the beginning of the end.
I had that beginning of the end, but there was one night where
it, like my abuser turnedphysical.
He wasn't really physicalbefore that and then he was very
, very much aggressivelyphysical that night and that was
finally.
(28:03):
That was my absolute breakingpoint.
But like, don't let it get tothat.
It's so hard to recover fromthe emotional trauma to begin
with.
And then when you add in thefacts that, like, I couldn't
forgive myself for letting itget that far and I was taking
responsibility for what he haddone to me and there's a lot of
(28:27):
shame involved and I get that.
But that's not going to go awayuntil you get away.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, like I said, whatever's happened in the past
and I think that we all don'twant to look stupid, you know I
liken it to being like openingup an email where you click on
the wrong button and all of asudden your computer is just
full of a virus and you're like,oh my God, that was the day
I've been warned never to clickon a link.
How could I have clicked on alink?
(28:56):
That's how this whole thinglays out.
Like you know it, but you takea chance on it because you're a
good person and you want thingsto work.
But then, once you click thatlink, you'll never get back to
start Like you.
Just you have to recover a deep.
In my opinion, you have to letthat laptop go and recognize
that you're just going to startover with a new one and be
(29:18):
smarter next time.
Yeah, we all make you know, weall.
It's so easy at the end to saythat was a stupid mistake, but
we make decisions.
That we do when we're presentedwith the information we have.
And you know, if you made itlike, I never intentionally went
into that relationship to hurtanyone to you know, hurt my
(29:38):
children, to embarrass myself,to lose everything, and if you
went into it with the bestintent, no matter how it works
out.
That doesn't make you a badperson.
It doesn't make you any dumberthan if it had worked.
What if it had worked out?
Well, that'd be great.
But you don't know that untilyou give something a try.
But certainly don't go downwith the ship.
(29:59):
You know which?
I think that song by Halsey theGraveyard was one of my like.
It was right in the smack ofwhat I was doing and I felt it.
I was like I'm going to die ifI stay in this.
Emotionally I was pretty muchalready dead.
But yeah, it does not get any.
And the more you pull away, themore dangerous that becomes.
And I remember my ex-husbandsaying we had gotten in and,
(30:23):
like I always, I ended up aperson where I didn't ever have
any fear of being physicallyhurt by him.
And he said to me one time thisis getting really dangerous.
And I was like, no, it's not.
You know, like, dangerous isnever something that would cause
.
But when I recognized that hewas talking about himself and he
was having very dangerousthoughts, he would pretend to
(30:45):
choke me.
Having very dangerous thoughts.
He would pretend to choke meand he'd say, oh, if I could
just and you know it doesescalate he said, whispered in
my ear very calmly, one night,I'm going to kill you and then
I'm coming back for your son,you know, and how how far do you
go with that?
Because I was like, oh, he wasjust drinking, he was.
But unfortunately only takesonce for them to follow through,
(31:07):
and you.
And that's why I think it'ssuch a tragedy that economic,
financial and emotional abuseare not recognized in the courts
, because you're basicallysaying, oh, he's just really
being mean to you, everyone'smean and it's something so much
greater than that that Icompletely agree and you're
(31:33):
doing what you can to help those, and I know you started talking
about it at the beginning ofthe episode.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
But I would love for you to go into more about the
Colin James birth.
First of all, where did thename come from?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So that's my first husband.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Okay, I thought so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So when he um, when he got sick, our community was
amazing.
They came out and they helpedwith fundraisers and just did
everything they can could tolike make sure that we were
financially okay.
And when he passed, afterseeing everything he did, went
through um, I would go down withchemo to chemo with him on
Thursdays and I started writingTatum's story, which is our
(32:08):
special needs daughter, becauseit was like such an up and down,
just crazy story.
So I started writing her storyon my BlackBerry and I would
email it back to myself and thenit kind of just flowed into his
story.
So I didn't really write it torelease it to the world more.
I did it because I thought mychildren would never meet him.
But after he passed away I justlet it sit on my computer for
(32:30):
12 years.
But I said to him my biggestthing was always Colin,
something good has to come outof this.
You know because, as you said,pancreatic cancer.
I remember when he wasdiagnosed they said well, if
you're going to have one, that'sthe worst one to have, which
you know.
I don't know why someone wouldsay that to you, but anyway, but
it was right, it was true, yeah, yeah.
(32:50):
So watching him suffer, and youknow I would just always say
that like this, all themeaninglessness, and all of this
has to be meaningful.
So, after going through thedivorce with my second husband
and just like feeling so out ofcontrol of my children, you know
the courts came in and suddenlyI couldn't make decisions for
my kids.
I was being called.
You know, the courts came in,suddenly I couldn't make
decisions for my kids, I wasbeing called.
(33:11):
You know all of these names andeverywhere else when someone
accuses you, it's you know thatyou're innocent and proven
guilty and family court's theexact opposite.
They can say whatever they wantand you have to prove that it's
not the truth.
So, after going through thatand it was such a different feel
between you know, falling as amom with a special needs
daughter and not being able topay for those medications.
Or you know, take caring of ahusband, and when he, when he
(33:33):
got sick, my first husband, hewas a trader, so he didn't have
vacation, he didn't have sickpay, so we were on our own the
minute that it happened.
So my thought process aftergoing through all of this, I am
a huge believer in the universeand you know.
I think when bad things happen,we just kind of all want to get
(33:53):
through it, put it in our pastand just move on and forget that
it happened.
But after the second go aroundI recognize that it's kind of I
believe it's kind of our duty ifwe go through something really
horrible and found our waythrough it.
I think it's kind of our dutyif we go through something
really horrible and found ourway through it.
I think it's kind of our dutyto change whatever we can to
make sure that the next personit's a softer ride for them.
(34:15):
And if they do it, you know,and what a great world we'd have
if everybody did that.
So my association, the Art Reach, was named after Colin and the
whole premise is that whencrisis hits, you don't even know
what you need.
After you find out what youneed, you're, you know you're
dealing with children, householdfinances, you know.
(34:35):
So we try and come in as like aconcierge service so that you
know we can tell you oh, thisperson, you're eligible for this
grant.
You, oh, you need education.
So we kind of sit down withthem, we figure out where we can
help.
We're building databases andnetworks so that we can match
people with eligible things,because everybody goes straight
to the government.
(34:56):
You know, because it's like thebiggest thing, like, oh, the
government will help you, butunfortunately they won't help
you until you have nothing leftand you have to lose everything.
So what we do is we try and takewomen where they're at, find
lucrative opportunities for them.
You know, recognize that eventhough they haven't been in the
workforce, my God, they have somuch job.
I mean, you know you're acounselor, a cook, you know
(35:18):
fundraiser for the school.
You've done it all by the timeyou've raised your children.
So we try and get companies torecognize that.
So we're just really built onthe belief of you know, I want
to help the Julie of me who hada special needs kid in it.
Whatever it is.
You come to us, even if wedon't have the resources at that
point to help you, we will findwhatever small little, because
(35:40):
there is always a smallorganization that you qualify
for.
But it's like finding a needlein the haystack.
So we're trying to cut, youknow, cut through all that
because you know, I'm sure thepeople that are giving away
grants would like to find thepeople that are eligible.
And I think there's adisconnect because, by the time
you find it, you're eitherthrough the crisis or you've
gone bankrupt and you're not ina position to, even you know,
(36:01):
take them up on whatever theyare offering.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Right.
So how far is your reach?
Are you in a specific region,or how far do you go?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
even finding the wizard that was always my thing
that like there are.
You know there's a thousandreally good doctors for
primordial dwarfism, but there'sthat wizard that's going to
take the time and is going tosit down with you.
So I'm a big proponent offinding that little resource
wherever it is for you.
So if you reach out to me,that's kind of what we do, is we
find resources for you.
Again, we're starting in SouthCarolina building this database
and we'd like to extrapolate itto the nation.
(36:49):
But we are really in ourinfancy.
So the most help that I've beenable to give to people right now
is they call me and just havinga third party to be like, what
should I do?
I'm stuck in this situation.
Even if you just start takingsteps, like you said, you have
that aha moment.
You have that like I can't dothis anymore.
(37:12):
The only way to get out of thatis to make small steps in any
way that you can, to build power, to have like, start feeling
like you can do it.
Once you feel like you can doit, opportunities open up a lot
more.
But sometimes I think it justtakes one person to believe in
you, to say you're right, to sayyou don't deserve, deserve this
, and let's find a way for youto get out of it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Okay, I love that.
How do?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
people get in touch with you.
So if you go to my website,which is juliebarthauthorcom,
there's a tab for my daughter'sart, my special needs daughter
is a self-taught artist, so shesells our art and the proceeds
go to the CJB Outreach.
So on my website you can readabout me, my books, my podcasts,
(37:56):
and then there's also a tab forthe CJB Outreach, which goes
directly to our organization.
So if you're looking to getinvolved, to make a donation,
we'd love you to help out.
Even if you need our help,please do reach out.
Again, I'm the only personmanning it.
So, if nothing else, like Isaid, it's just nice.
Again, I'm the only personmanning it.
So, if nothing else, like Isaid, it's just nice to have
someone on the other end sayingno, you're not crazy.
Yes, you do need to get out andwe support you.
Whatever that looks like, wewill be there.
(38:18):
I was recently able to help likea 24-year-old girl.
Her husband had stolen herdaughter and they were stuck in
a military base, and I am proudto say that she got her daughter
back and she's at home.
But had she not, within like athree week span, he would have
taken her and she wouldn't havebeen able to get her daughter
back.
So you know it's, it's.
Don't wait until it's too lateto get out.
(38:38):
The damage is only going to getworse, not better.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Now.
I want to talk about thatforever, but I want to talk
about also your books and yourpodcast.
So what do you have?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Um, I have um notes from a Blackberry, like I said,
that's the one that I wroteabout Tatum and Colin, my first
husband.
Um, I have um from Blackberriesto Thorns, which is going to be
coming out this fall, which isthe second marriage getting out
of that and everything that ledup to that Um, and then I'll be
releasing from Thorns toBlossoms, which is kind of
(39:14):
unpacking everything, trying toput in some practical advice and
just words of wisdom and justtrying to connect with a reader
who's if you've sought me out toget inside that piece of you
that's ready to go, but you justneed a little spark or you know
someone to lean on.
I think in a lot of theseyou're just, you don't even want
to talk about it.
You're so tired of talkingabout it Because you know you
start out just kind of likealmost being like any other.
You know significant othercomplaining about your husband,
(39:35):
or you know he's just, oh, he'salways.
And then all of a sudden, themore it goes, the more you're
like I can't even tell peopleanymore, or I don't want to,
don't want to hear it and theydon't want to take up for him,
you know, or they don't want topush your buttons so much that
you're going to start defendingthem, and then they've lost you.
So they're trying to walk thisfine balance too, where they're.
(39:57):
You know, a lot of them tend towalk away because they don't
know how to help you.
But they're not walking awayfrom you.
I can guarantee you.
They're not walking away fromyou.
It feels like they are.
But if you are watchingsomebody hurt themselves over
and over and are unable to stopthe cycle or be engaged in it, I
think it's too hurtful and Ithink that's why people walk,
(40:18):
because they're like I can'thelp her and I can't watch it
either.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Oh, for sure, I had people that kind of disappeared
in my life and you know, Ithought it was me because, of
course, like everything wasalways my fault.
But once I got out they cameback into my life and started
explaining listen, I couldn't bethere because of him.
So, yeah, I get that.
(40:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And it is.
It becomes very, very isolatingand lonely.
And you know, I always say it'slike when you break up with a
boyfriend in high school andeveryone's like I hated that guy
.
You're like why didn't you tellme that?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I hated that guy too.
Oh my gosh, I've had so manypeople say that I'm like, well,
why?
Didn't you say something?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I think that they, you know, but I think that they
felt you weren't ready to hearit either.
And you know, I think it's easyon the outside.
I do tend to, and I hate that Ido this, but I felt like nobody
put their line in the sand andsaid listen, if you do not leave
him, I have to step out.
And this isn't about you, thisis just.
I can't be a party to itanymore, because that would have
(41:22):
made a whole lot more sense andit would have made me feel like
it's not just me and I cansalvage this relationship.
The people that just walked away.
It led me like, oh, I guessthey just think I'm crazy, do
they?
I don't know, I never asked, Ijust walked away.
But in the back of my head I'malso thinking if it were me and
(41:42):
I lost one of my friends and Iheard that they had gotten out,
my first call would have been tothem.
But those are the people thatdo come back and they will be
there no matter what.
And the other people, you justgotta let it go.
They're not with you anyway.
They're not your friends ifthey haven't given you the you
know the space to speak, or ifthey're, if it's more
uncomfortable for them to justwalk away from a situation where
they see you hurting yourselfand feel like they can't do
(42:04):
anything.
Well, I mean, they probablycould have, but it took a lot of
energy, so you know.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, and I mean you can't really fault them.
I mean they have to look outfor their own mental health too,
because it takes a toll to seesomeone that they care about go
through that kind of, that levelof abuse.
Okay, Is there anything else?
Did we miss anything?
Um, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Is there anything else Did we?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
miss anything, I think so Okay, I love this
conversation, um, okay, soeverything they can find is it
all on your website.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
It is so there's three different websites, but
they're all linked to oneanother.
So if you find one um, you knowyou find the rest of them.
All my social media links areon there as well.
Um, I'm trying to get followersfor my daughter's artwork,
which is hopefortatecom, Because, yeah, the story won't show up
until I have 500 followers.
I think I'm stuck at like 320.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Oh, no, Okay, we'll get that yeah you're willing to
follow.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
That would help.
Okay, so it's hopefortate?
Yes, with the number fourT-A-Y-T.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Okay, okay, I'll make sure I have that linked in to
the show notes with us, but I'mgoing to push that We'll get
that.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I love all the social media.
Yeah, I wish I were better.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Oh, so am I?
I actually I was talking to ohmy gosh, she's probably in her
mid-20s now and I said I needhelp with social media, and
she's like I don't really do iteither.
I'm like, come on, I need to, Idon't do it.
You're 20, you have to.
I know, I thought that was a.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, I think even the 20-year-olds are starting to
just not like it as much, whichI think is hopeful for the
world.
To be honest about it, yeah, Iagree, I think so, I think so.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
But yeah, I mean I'm clueless and I ask my friends,
but we're all in our 40s andwe're like, they're like we
don't care.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
We don't pay attention to that.
I can hand it to my teenagerand be like can you do this?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
for me please.
Yes, that's perfect, that'sperfect.
But okay, yeah, I will have allthose links in the show notes
and we're going to do that.
Okay, yes, so thank you so muchfor joining me today, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I know it's hard to talk about this stuff, but I
think it's so important.
I think it helps.
I said this in a recent episode.
I think it helps release shamethat other people who have gone
through it might be feeling andto hear you know well, julie's
talking about it.
Julie went through it the samething, so maybe it's not your
(44:36):
shame to carry and.
I think that this will be superimpactful, as well as all of
your advocacy work, and so Ireally appreciate everything
you're doing and your time forcoming on and talking with me
today.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I appreciate you having me.
Yeah, I think that if we couldall just, you know say what
we've been through, then there'sa lot less shame in knowing
that everybody goes through hardtimes.
You know, it's when you keep ithidden, that's when you feel
shame for it.
So, yeah, if you make a mistake, when you keep it hidden,
that's when you feel shame forit.
So yeah, if you make a mistake,own up to it, put it in your
past and make it easier forother people.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, thank you again.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you again, julie, andthank you, warriors, for
listening.
You can find the links Juliewas referring to, including her
one in three profile in the shownotes.
Let's not forget about Tatum'sartwork.
Make sure to check out herwebsite, hopefortatecom.
(45:35):
That's H-O-P, the number four,t-a-y-tcom.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong andwherever you are in your journey
, always remember you are notalone.
(46:03):
The number one, i-n the numberthree podcastcom.
Follow 1&3 on Instagram,facebook and Twitter at 1&3
Podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate, review and subscribe.
1&3 is a .5 Pinoy productionMusic written and performed by
Tim Crow.
©.
Transcript Emily Beynon.
Hi Warriors, Welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, Ingrid.
I'm honored to introducetoday's guest, Julie Barth.
Julie is here to share herpowerful story, one marked by
loss, abuse and the kind ofresilience that only presents
itself when it becomes your onlyoption.
Through her healing journey,Julie discovered a deeper
(00:24):
purpose to help those who arewalking a similar path.
So, instead of me telling youeverything, I'm going to let
Julie speak for herself.
Here she is.
Hi, Julie.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Hey Ingrid, it's nice to behere.
Thank you for having me.
I'm very appreciative of yourtime and your topic.
So, before we jump into allthat, do you mind just giving a
(00:47):
brief background, or maybe notso brief?
You have quite a bit to talkabout of.
You know what brought you here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sure.
So I am the mother of six and Iopened up a charity a couple of
years ago to help women incrisis.
I have had a pretty longhistory as far as my adult life
has pretty much been full ofcaregiving and I have a special
needs daughter.
I lost my first husband, whowas like my best friend growing
(01:16):
up, to pancreatic cancer when wehad four very small children.
So I know all the complexitiesof caregiving while also trying
to be a parent and then, after Igot past that, he passed.
He actually ended up living 16months, which was a blessing in
some ways.
They told him he would have twoweeks to live, so yeah, so we
(01:39):
were able to get him for a lotlonger than that, but I think
anyone who's a caregiver knowsthat you hate even saying that
some of it was a curse, butthere were some hard fought
months at the end there.
So after getting out of that,after he passed, I kind of just
wanted to put it behind me.
I had a special needs daughterthat I fought for four years
just trying to get her.
(01:59):
You know to be at a point wherewe knew she was going to make
it, and all of you know thesurgeries that came with that
and finding out about hergenetics, and so it was really
just a decade of, you know, firedrills and bouncing from one
thing to the next and I kind of,when he passed away, I just
wanted to like move, be gone,you know, not think about it,
(02:20):
and while everyone else is juststarting to grieve, you know, I
think I was like I, you know,every day was a grief, you know
griefing process of losing himjust a little bit more.
So, you know, I think that Ikind of just picked up and I
left my family behind and I metsomebody who I married and that
was, I think, really just areaction to trying to not
(02:43):
acknowledge the first situationin Duckett.
I just wanted to run away fromit, but I quickly found out that
you, you know, people say likeyou can't run from your problems
and it sounds very cliche butit's true.
So yeah, that's kind of just alittle synopsis.
There's a lot of ups and downsin the first 10 years and
following that, which is mysecond book is focused on, is I
was in an extremely emotionallyabusive relationship and I never
(03:07):
would have thought that I wouldhave been where I'm at.
You know, I fought to get myfirst husband to, you know, to
help him be here.
And my special needs daughter,you know, I was always in the,
in the, in the brain, trying tomake her better and fighting and
just being so involved.
And then I went from thatstraight to this person that I
didn't even recognize.
So it was like Julie had leftthe building.
(03:28):
I found myself doing reallystupid, silly things, crying and
just things that were veryuncharacteristic of myself.
So I think that's why my lifeand my goals now are committed
to helping women in differentfinancial situations, different
emotional states, different firedrills that they find
themselves in life.
Whether it's being the mom to aspecial needs daughter who
(03:50):
couldn't get vaccines because wecouldn't afford them, or, you
know, caring for a loved onewhen you have four other kids.
Our charity is based on tryingto get women to a position where
they don't have to loseeverything.
The way it's structured now,you have to like be so, you know
, and it's kind of sad becauseyou're like, oh, I'm in poverty,
that's amazing.
(04:10):
And you're like, wait a second,I'm in poverty.
So, yeah, we're trying to catchthem before they get to that
point, because you shouldn'thave to give everything away
before someone's like oh, nowyou have nothing will help.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We just don't think that's a fruitful way to go
about charities and really boostpeople when they need to most.
I think that when you helppeople when they've hit bottom,
it becomes more of a almost likethey're dependent.
Now They've lost theirindependence and it's harder to
then create a life beyond that.
Pancreatic cancer is terribleand I'm very sorry that you went
through that.
(04:47):
I'm a medical provider so Iknow that it's very difficult
for caregivers and you'reappreciative of that time.
But then that time also kind ofdraws out the pain that you see
your loved one go through and Iknow that's a difficult process
.
It leaves you almost in a stateof vulnerability and more, I
(05:11):
guess, exposed to somebody thatcan take advantage of somebody
in that kind of a situation, andit happens quite a bit that
people then end up inrelationships with an individual
who ends up being abusive.
How long were you guys married?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It was a long decade, I can honestly say.
You know.
We lived together for about sixyears until you know it was
like unbearable and he startedtraveling for work.
So I was blessed in the factthat he wasn't around.
I had two small children withhim and then I had four from my
first marriage.
Everyone always says, why didyou stay so long?
(05:53):
And I think that anybody goingthrough it knows you're staying
for a reason, but you're notquite sure what that reason is.
You know, unfortunately, theonly way to survive these
relationships is to get out ofthem.
But from the outside, where itlooks so clear like you should
leave, you're in dangerInternally.
(06:13):
When you're a caregiver and amom and you have all these
issues from whatever baggageyou've been through it's usually
attachment disorders, peoplelike emotionally abusive people.
They can pick out that personthat is, you know, bleeding, who
is just wants everyone to behappy to please, or they're very
(06:34):
good at finding the pleaser.
They're very good at findingsomeone who you know is broken
in some ways and just needswants somebody there to support
them and unfortunately you endup losing everything you have in
these relationships and youcan't see it.
So it's so clear on the outside, you know, you know it, but
making taking that step justseems like you're going to, you
(06:57):
know, lose everything, and soyou stay stuck in it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, and I think it's especially more difficult
when you have children involved,especially if that individual
is their father and he was fortwo of them, and it's an
insidious kind of thing thathappens.
It's not like he just comes inwith abuse, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I can honestly say there was something about him,
because everyone is alwaysasking me what are red flags.
But I think what I've come tolearn most about, the best
advice that I can honestly saythere was something about him,
because everyone is alwaysasking me you know what are red
flags?
That I think what I've come tolearn most about the best advice
that I can give to people is Idon't need to tell them these
red flags Like you know them.
If you're Googling it, ifyou're searching, if you're like
you know, all the time oncomputer trying to figure out
what's going on in myrelationship, what's wrong, your
(07:42):
brain is saying there'ssomething not right about this
relationship or you wouldn't belooking.
I think you know taking that onestep of getting out of it.
You know there's that's thecomplexity in it, because if you
do that you feel like you'regoing to lose everything.
You know you're probably tiedto them financially, you're tied
to them economically and you'vedone some pretty stupid stuff.
(08:02):
You know they get you to reactso that you do really stupid,
crazy things and then they'relike see, you're crazy and you
can't.
You know you can't disagreewith them because the things
that I was doing, like chasingand crying and telling him to
get out and begging him to comeback.
Those were all very crazythings, you know, whatever crazy
looks like, but again you knowthere's no, they keep telling
(08:27):
you you're the problem.
You are doing things that makeyourself the problem.
So if you expose somebody andsay I want to get out of this,
you also have to kind of takethat veil off of yourself and
admit all the things you've done.
And that's a hard pill toswallow too.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's a reactive abuse , Like what they do is they poke
at you until you have thisexplosive moment and it's oh, I
hate it.
I know that my abuser would dothat and would just sit back
with a smirk on his face and say, look at you, Wow, Wow, Look at
(09:02):
that reaction, You're crazy.
And then I would believe it.
I would sit there and think, ohmy God, I can't believe.
I just screamed like that oryou know whatever.
And I actually probably amcrazy and I think you know you
kind of are.
You've lost the semblance ofwho you are at that point.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And you will do anything tostop feeling the way that you're
feeling, whether that is you'reafraid of them leaving, whether
that means like I just don'twant to have to deal with the
enormity of finding a job andmoving out.
And you know they, theypurposely set you up and they
get you so in, in in a grain, insomething that, although it
(09:43):
looks so easy for other peopleon the outside like just leave,
you know, on the inside you,just when I ended up getting
divorced, I found several chairsthat were stationed all around
my house and I would go outsideon the front porch when I would
get very upset because I didn'twant the kids to see me cry, and
I would just fall apart on thefront porch, you know, texting
(10:03):
and crying and begging.
And it wasn't until after heleft that I noticed that he,
like skillfully placed chairsbehind trees and behind the gate
so that he could see me while Iwas falling apart because he
gained so much pleasure fromwatching me.
So just bottomed out,distressed.
And then it got to the pointwhere he was taping me, he was
(10:26):
videotaping me, he was takingthe text messages that I was
sending him and he was sendingthem out to his friends.
So he was making this case thatshe's crazy.
And I played right into itbecause from the outside I look
crazy.
When I read through some of thetexts that he was giving to the
(10:47):
court I was like what was Ithinking?
But in the moment it literallyfeels like you're going to die
if you do not make this work andyou do everything to stick with
it.
So, yeah, I mean it's a veryterrible dynamic to be in and
again, I think these people arevery masterful and they know
what will just like make you dowhatever they want.
(11:11):
And again, you know they don'tcome in saying I'm going to hate
your kids.
I'm going to treat them, youknow.
But you do know something's up,because these people do not
operate like everyone else.
You know, I think mine was thathe never wanted to hear me talk
about my first husband.
When everyone else was tryingto get me to slow down, to
grieve, to talk through it, Iwas like nope, nope, nope and I
(11:32):
thought that him not wanting tohear about it was that, oh, like
he's just trying to give mespace and it took me probably
two years to recognize he reallyjust didn't care.
He didn't want to hear me, hedidn't want my problems, he
didn't want to shoulder anyburdens.
He literally was like justdon't talk.
And then by the time I wasready to talk it was pretty much
(11:53):
known don't you're stop being.
He used to say you can'tcontrol your emotions.
You can't control your emotions.
And you know, I was like Ididn't realize that emotions
were to be controlled and I kindof do.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I was like if you knew what I'd like to be doing
right now.
I'm controlling them prettywell.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
They have no idea the amount of control that we have.
Yes, I would agree with youthere.
Only, during certain parts, youknow and I think that that's a
cycle of these things is thatyou feel so helpless and you're
bottomed out and you're like, ohmy gosh, I just can't do
another moment, and right whenyou're about to leave, you know
he would come back and he'd saystuff like, well, fine, if you
(12:34):
really want this to, if youreally want to make it work, if
you're, if you want, you know,if, if you're going to keep
begging me even when I wasn't,he just knew that he was gotten
to that point where I was goingto walk, and then he would just
flip it around and you know, itwas like I always say, it was
like someone was choking me out,and just as I was about to take
my last breath, he would likelet go, and it almost felt like
(12:56):
he was the one saving me, which,you know, the person that's
literally trying to kill meturns himself into the savior,
like within an hour of, you know, this entire blow up fight.
I'm thinking I made this all upin my head.
So, yeah, I mean it's.
It's crazy literally to be inthat and not be able to see it.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yes, and I had a guest on and I'm not going to
make an assumption of narcissismgoing on, but you know, because
it is definitely an overusedtopic but it sounds pretty darn
close.
But she came on to talk aboutnarcissistic personality
disorder and she said that itgets to a point where you know
(13:38):
they do the breakdown, build youback up, breakdown, build you
back up, but then the cycle gets.
You're so into the cycle whereyou're on the floor and they've
broken you down and then justthe fact that they're not
unleashing abuse actually seemslike a gift.
At that point it's not evenapologies anymore or anything
(14:00):
like that, it's just the factthat you get to breathe for a
second and you're like, oh he'sa good guy because he's letting
me breathe and I can do this.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, See, I knew that I was looking at it wrong,
but now that I see it can befixed, I'm going to go right
back into trying to fix it evenmore.
Yeah, and that's the thing islike it becomes.
It becomes less and less aboutwhat's going on and more about
the rapidity of the cycle.
You know where it was, thisdrawn out cycle.
You know it would be like twoweeks of him not talking to me,
(14:32):
and then he would kind of benice to me and I was like, oh,
and then he would be nice to youfor like a week and then he
would start all over again.
Yeah, and it just becomesexhausting and you don't even
see it.
You just kind of are in themotion of waiting for the uptick
so that you can breathe again.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Absolutely, oh.
And then you see how kind theyare to everyone else and how you
know even giving are helpful,and then you think it really
actually must be me if he canact like that with everyone else
, and it's just me.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yep, my car broke down and I had my mother, who's
in her eighties, I had mydaughter, who was, you know,
before 10 years old, and my sonand we were in second Atlanta
and I was driving his truck andit broke down and he wouldn't
come get us, like he would just.
He was like just wait for it.
It took us like seven hours andwe were in a horrible part of
(15:24):
town and he would not come getus.
But the very next day hisparents' car breaks down, like
45 minutes from our house, andhe's like out the door going to
pick them up.
And I'm thinking, you know.
And then he would say to mewell, if you didn't let the gas
run down, that's you.
Why am I going to clean up afteryour stupidity?
You know, and run down, that'syou.
Why am I going to clean upafter your stupidity?
(15:44):
And it was one of those likebut you're so willing to step in
for everybody else, but when itcomes to me, you're being
ridiculous.
Calm down, you're being way tooemotional If you weren't so
stupid you wouldn't put yourselfin this position.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
This is your fault and you begin to believe it.
You mentioned also some afinancial component, and
financial abuse is definitely athing.
I'm sure pretty much everybodycan figure out what that means.
But do you mind just sort ofgoing into a little bit more
detail what that looks like?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I think a lot of people think about like, yeah
, sure, the house.
You know a lot of people sharea house and if you're a
stay-at-home mom, you know Iwasn't technically, I worked
still but you know, when you'resharing stuff with somebody you
don't even know how much they'retaking care of until they start
, you know, taking back thosethings or not caring for them.
(16:38):
So you know, we first movedhere all of a sudden I was
responsible for everything, andthen the yard work because he
didn't want to do that, and thenthis, and then that, and so I
started seeing that I was sostuck in my house I couldn't
sell it because he was supposedto refinish it but he didn't
want to.
He gave up, he wasn'tcontributing any money.
So I can't sell my housebecause it's in ill repair, but
(16:59):
I can't repair it because Idon't have any money.
And then we were on the kids,were on state aid because we had
six kids and there's no.
I mean that would be like$1,500, if not more, a month.
So the kids are on Medicaid.
Well, he refused to hand in anyof his IRS forms every year.
So I would be on the phone likefighting with people saying like
(17:20):
I cannot, because my specialneeds daughter was one of those
people and I was like I cannotlet this lapse and I would just
cry.
And they were like he has toget his stuff in.
Well, of course he didn't wantto turn his stuff in, because
then I would know how much hewas making.
So you know, not only it wasall of these things like if you
don't want to contribute, it'snot okay, but I can, I can do
(17:40):
with that but not only was henot contributing, he was
actually messing things up onpurpose.
And then when I would call andI would cry and I would tell
these people like I can't losemy medical and he would hear me
yelling at people He'd be likeGod, see how mean you are to
people, like you think you owneveryone, you think that you're
so entitled and I'm sittingthere thinking I'm just trying
to save my kid's medicalinsurance, or I'm just trying to
(18:11):
save my kid's medical insurance, or I'm just trying to save my
daughter's disability, but hewould throw.
He just had this way of throwingthings in my path so that I
would trip up, no matter whatthat was.
It took me years.
I went through probably likeseven lawnmowers in my backyard
and I finally recognized that itwas because he was taking
breaths and he was throwing themdown in different places so
that when I cut the lawn I wouldgo over them and it would break
the.
I mean, that is the level ofdepravity that this man was
(18:32):
capable of.
That I refuse to see.
You know, I would make excusesfor it.
I would probably do thatbecause one of the dogs was, you
know, digging or.
I just refuse to see how truly,and you know, and to your talk
of narcissism, I get very upsetwith my girls and boys.
They're on social media andthey're like you're gaslighting
(18:53):
me and I'm like girls you don'teven know what gaslighting is.
Yeah, I'm like you are dilutinghow seriously dangerous these
individuals are.
When you lump people and saylike, when you use it as such,
like a term, it loses its truetoxicity.
Like it is a dangerous,dangerous term relationship to
(19:16):
get into somebody who hasnarcissistic personality
disorder.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
And it's not just a matter of somebody's trying to
pull one over on you.
That and that's whatgaslighting is.
It's the manipulation and thecomplete.
I mean you just you have noidea what your reality is
anymore and you're so confusedand you're so lost.
It's dismissing.
You know, overreacting I hadthat all the time You're
(19:42):
overreacting, You're soemotional, you need to pull
yourself together, kind of thing.
Or you know, I was just kidding.
I didn't really mean that.
I don't know why.
I was just kidding.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Why are you so sensitive?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
You're so sensitive?
Take a joke, can't you?
You know nobody else would havebeen so sensitive, or just even
denying things like thathappened.
I would never say that.
Why would you think I would saysomething like that?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I know, yeah, it's a horrible thing or making
up stuff you said, and I'm likeI never said that, yeah, you did
no, really, and it doesn't evensound like something.
I would say.
No-transcript for them to dothat.
(20:43):
I think a lot of people arejust so quick to say there's
something wrong with them ifthey react that way, and not
that we all should get a passwhen we behave badly.
You know that's a completelydifferent subject.
But narcissists definitely havea way of I mean they're they're
very, very good at painting youto be something and then
(21:07):
pushing your buttons to makesure that you show every aspect
of what they're claiming you do.
And they're also very good atum accusing you of doing the
very things they're doing, whichconfuses the heck out of me.
You know like, yeah, everythingthat he claimed when he came
after me during the divorce.
You know everything that he wasclaiming.
I was like that's you.
You know he was saying that Iwas abusing dogs.
I'm like I would never abuse adog.
(21:28):
I mean, that's where I draw itline, like I would never abuse a
dog Like he gives me a lot ofstuff, but I would never abuse a
dog.
Right, yeah, so yeah, and it isthe thing that they know will
also make you fall into line,because they know you want
people to see you as a goodperson and they know that you
care what people think andthat's what they use against you
(21:50):
.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Well, how did you get out actually?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So, as I said, I had four from the first marriage.
He actually left one time andhe went to the lawyer and he
must've found out that he wasn'tgoing to get anything.
So after about six months cameback, said oh, I really want
this to work.
And from that point on hestarted videotaping me and, like
I said, sending my texts outand messages out, set me up for
(22:15):
stuff you know, said like I needyou to go see the psychologist
because you're crazy.
And if you do that, so by thetime you know, finally, I think
I kicked him out three or fourtimes, but I kept letting him
come back in.
And at the very last time my son, who is the third youngest, he
said to me mom, I don'tunderstand why you keep letting
(22:37):
him come back.
He said he's threatened to killyou, he's threatened to kill me
.
I've lost my childhood overthis.
I don't leave my room, I'mafraid of him.
And, you know, in that verymoment I realized that if I
couldn't get out of it formyself, I at least had to get
out of it for my kids.
And that was the end of it.
That was the beginning of theend.
But he came after me and said Iwas a drug addict, an alcoholic
(23:01):
, that I was bipolar personality.
Whatever it was, I was crazy,crazy, crazy and luckily it was
a battle.
But the truth always does comeout.
But unfortunately it takes youthousands of dollars, your
reputation and a whole lot ofyears off your life to get it.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, and I know some people who have had to move
just because that.
But yeah, the smear campaignbecause it got so bad that they
couldn't stay in the same townthey were living in because
everybody's looking at her likeshe's the bad guy and you know,
difficulty doing anything there.
(23:43):
I mean, some people have a hardtime finding a job because they
believe all these lies that aretold.
And it's again when you knowall these social media
individuals are overusing theterms.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
it really minimizes the effect that it takes on
people and it destroys literallydestroys lives and yeah there
came a point where you know andthat's one of when people ask me
for, like, what's my biggestadvice?
I did, I lost everything, youknow, and I hung on as long as I
(24:15):
did because I was so afraid ofwhat people are going to know.
People would know what went onin my house, that people are
going to see that crazy textmessages or that you know,
somehow I was going to be atfault and you know.
I think that the only way toget out of these relationships
is for one to accept that, yes,you might lose everything, but I
think that everything that Ilost I either didn't have to
(24:38):
begin with or it was the verything keeping me stuck.
When you talk about losing, youknow people in your community.
I lost all my childhood friends.
I did move away from my homeand he was going back there and
talk about a smear campaign,telling everyone I was crazy,
sending my text messages,telling everyone I wouldn't let
him see his kids and the peoplethat I grew up with that I had
(24:59):
known my whole life.
I can't say that they ever saidanything to my face, but it was
very quiet behind the scenesand I didn't really even try and
reach out.
When I left, I just that was it.
I had to be okay with losingwhat I lost and what I found out
was that on the other side ofit I'm so sorry that it took me
(25:21):
so long to do it A and B there'snothing you can do to change
what's happened.
Whatever's happened hashappened.
You just need to move forward,because you can't fix it, you
can't change it, and the moreyou try, I always say it's like
a sweater.
You pull on that string and allof a sudden there's no sweater
left.
You just keep pulling andpulling and pulling, and that's
(25:42):
the way these relationshipscannot, in any way, shape or
form, be healthy.
I have, you know, read, you knowthere's that back and forth
that.
Can you be with an narcissist?
Can you?
In my own head, if you have toask that question, that is
someone that is not healthy foryou, because you shouldn't ever
ask can I be in a relationshipwith somebody that inherently
(26:03):
says you're going to need to putout more than you should?
I mean, why would you want to,can you?
I suppose anybody can, but isthat what you want out of your
life?
And I can't imagine that anybodyliving in that kind of fear.
It's a constant fear.
It's a constant like fire drilladrenaline.
(26:23):
What's he doing now?
What's he going to do?
How's this going to come backon me?
Because you know it's just amatter of time.
You know it is so.
As hard as all of those thingsare.
Just remember that it doesn't.
The only person you'reresponsible to is yourself.
I would say your kids too to acertain degree.
But don't worry about whatother people think, or whether
they're going to believe you orif they're going to think you're
(26:45):
at fault.
It doesn't matter.
Even if you are at fault, evenif you are the narcissist, let's
just say case in point fine, Iwill admit, I'm a narcissist.
I still got to walk away.
I can't do this anymore, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Right Well, and I mean you just kind of have to
assume that you are going towalk out of the relationship
without having a relationshipwith other people that you did.
You are going to lose people.
Some people lose family membersover these relationships.
But the important thing is thatabuse is going to escalate,
(27:19):
it's not going to get better,it's not going to ever go away,
it's going to get worse andyou're going to lose more and
more and more of yourself.
And I just can't stress itenough that the first to say I
did not leave when I should have, I stayed in a lot longer than
(27:43):
I should have and it escalatedto a point where I think
everyone does have, like yousaid, the beginning of the end.
I had that beginning of the end, but there was one night where
it, like my abuser turnedphysical.
He wasn't really physicalbefore that and then he was very
, very much aggressivelyphysical that night and that was
finally.
(28:03):
That was my absolute breakingpoint.
But like, don't let it get tothat.
It's so hard to recover fromthe emotional trauma to begin
with.
And then when you add in thefacts that, like, I couldn't
forgive myself for letting itget that far and I was taking
responsibility for what he haddone to me and there's a lot of
(28:27):
shame involved and I get that.
But that's not going to go awayuntil you get away.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, like I said, whatever's happened in the past
and I think that we all don'twant to look stupid, you know I
liken it to being like openingup an email where you click on
the wrong button and all of asudden your computer is just
full of a virus and you're like,oh my God, that was the day
I've been warned never to clickon a link.
How could I have clicked on alink?
(28:56):
That's how this whole thinglays out.
Like you know it, but you takea chance on it because you're a
good person and you want thingsto work.
But then, once you click thatlink, you'll never get back to
start Like you.
Just you have to recover a deep.
In my opinion, you have to letthat laptop go and recognize
that you're just going to startover with a new one and be
(29:18):
smarter next time.
Yeah, we all make you know, weall.
It's so easy at the end to saythat was a stupid mistake, but
we make decisions.
That we do when we're presentedwith the information we have.
And you know, if you made itlike, I never intentionally went
into that relationship to hurtanyone to you know, hurt my
(29:38):
children, to embarrass myself,to lose everything, and if you
went into it with the bestintent, no matter how it works
out.
That doesn't make you a badperson.
It doesn't make you any dumberthan if it had worked.
What if it had worked out?
Well, that'd be great.
But you don't know that untilyou give something a try.
But certainly don't go downwith the ship.
(29:59):
You know which?
I think that song by Halsey theGraveyard was one of my like.
It was right in the smack ofwhat I was doing and I felt it.
I was like I'm going to die ifI stay in this.
Emotionally I was pretty muchalready dead.
But yeah, it does not get any.
And the more you pull away, themore dangerous that becomes.
And I remember my ex-husbandsaying we had gotten in and,
(30:23):
like I always, I ended up aperson where I didn't ever have
any fear of being physicallyhurt by him.
And he said to me one time thisis getting really dangerous.
And I was like, no, it's not.
You know, like, dangerous isnever something that would cause
.
But when I recognized that hewas talking about himself and he
was having very dangerousthoughts, he would pretend to
(30:45):
choke me.
Having very dangerous thoughts.
He would pretend to choke meand he'd say, oh, if I could
just and you know it doesescalate he said, whispered in
my ear very calmly, one night,I'm going to kill you and then
I'm coming back for your son,you know, and how how far do you
go with that?
Because I was like, oh, he wasjust drinking, he was.
But unfortunately only takesonce for them to follow through,
(31:07):
and you.
And that's why I think it'ssuch a tragedy that economic,
financial and emotional abuseare not recognized in the courts
, because you're basicallysaying, oh, he's just really
being mean to you, everyone'smean and it's something so much
greater than that that Icompletely agree and you're
(31:33):
doing what you can to help those, and I know you started talking
about it at the beginning ofthe episode.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
But I would love for you to go into more about the
Colin James birth.
First of all, where did thename come from?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So that's my first husband.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Okay, I thought so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So when he um, when he got sick, our community was
amazing.
They came out and they helpedwith fundraisers and just did
everything they can could tolike make sure that we were
financially okay.
And when he passed, afterseeing everything he did, went
through um, I would go down withchemo to chemo with him on
Thursdays and I started writingTatum's story, which is our
(32:08):
special needs daughter, becauseit was like such an up and down,
just crazy story.
So I started writing her storyon my BlackBerry and I would
email it back to myself and thenit kind of just flowed into his
story.
So I didn't really write it torelease it to the world more.
I did it because I thought mychildren would never meet him.
But after he passed away I justlet it sit on my computer for
(32:30):
12 years.
But I said to him my biggestthing was always Colin,
something good has to come outof this.
You know because, as you said,pancreatic cancer.
I remember when he wasdiagnosed they said well, if
you're going to have one, that'sthe worst one to have, which
you know.
I don't know why someone wouldsay that to you, but anyway, but
it was right, it was true, yeah, yeah.
(32:50):
So watching him suffer, and youknow I would just always say
that like this, all themeaninglessness, and all of this
has to be meaningful.
So, after going through thedivorce with my second husband
and just like feeling so out ofcontrol of my children, you know
the courts came in and suddenlyI couldn't make decisions for
my kids.
I was being called.
You know, the courts came in,suddenly I couldn't make
decisions for my kids, I wasbeing called.
(33:11):
You know all of these names andeverywhere else when someone
accuses you, it's you know thatyou're innocent and proven
guilty and family court's theexact opposite.
They can say whatever they wantand you have to prove that it's
not the truth.
So, after going through thatand it was such a different feel
between you know, falling as amom with a special needs
daughter and not being able topay for those medications.
Or you know, take caring of ahusband, and when he, when he
(33:33):
got sick, my first husband, hewas a trader, so he didn't have
vacation, he didn't have sickpay, so we were on our own the
minute that it happened.
So my thought process aftergoing through all of this, I am
a huge believer in the universeand you know.
I think when bad things happen,we just kind of all want to get
(33:53):
through it, put it in our pastand just move on and forget that
it happened.
But after the second go aroundI recognize that it's kind of I
believe it's kind of our duty ifwe go through something really
horrible and found our waythrough it.
I think it's kind of our dutyif we go through something
really horrible and found ourway through it.
I think it's kind of our dutyto change whatever we can to
make sure that the next personit's a softer ride for them.
(34:15):
And if they do it, you know,and what a great world we'd have
if everybody did that.
So my association, the Art Reach, was named after Colin and the
whole premise is that whencrisis hits, you don't even know
what you need.
After you find out what youneed, you're, you know you're
dealing with children, householdfinances, you know.
(34:35):
So we try and come in as like aconcierge service so that you
know we can tell you oh, thisperson, you're eligible for this
grant.
You, oh, you need education.
So we kind of sit down withthem, we figure out where we can
help.
We're building databases andnetworks so that we can match
people with eligible things,because everybody goes straight
to the government.
(34:56):
You know, because it's like thebiggest thing, like, oh, the
government will help you, butunfortunately they won't help
you until you have nothing leftand you have to lose everything.
So what we do is we try and takewomen where they're at, find
lucrative opportunities for them.
You know, recognize that eventhough they haven't been in the
workforce, my God, they have somuch job.
I mean, you know you're acounselor, a cook, you know
(35:18):
fundraiser for the school.
You've done it all by the timeyou've raised your children.
So we try and get companies torecognize that.
So we're just really built onthe belief of you know, I want
to help the Julie of me who hada special needs kid in it.
Whatever it is.
You come to us, even if wedon't have the resources at that
point to help you, we will findwhatever small little, because
(35:40):
there is always a smallorganization that you qualify
for.
But it's like finding a needlein the haystack.
So we're trying to cut, youknow, cut through all that
because you know, I'm sure thepeople that are giving away
grants would like to find thepeople that are eligible.
And I think there's adisconnect because, by the time
you find it, you're eitherthrough the crisis or you've
gone bankrupt and you're not ina position to, even you know,
(36:01):
take them up on whatever theyare offering.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Right.
So how far is your reach?
Are you in a specific region,or how far do you go?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
even finding the wizard that was always my thing
that like there are.
You know there's a thousandreally good doctors for
primordial dwarfism, but there'sthat wizard that's going to
take the time and is going tosit down with you.
So I'm a big proponent offinding that little resource
wherever it is for you.
So if you reach out to me,that's kind of what we do, is we
find resources for you.
Again, we're starting in SouthCarolina building this database
and we'd like to extrapolate itto the nation.
(36:49):
But we are really in ourinfancy.
So the most help that I've beenable to give to people right now
is they call me and just havinga third party to be like, what
should I do?
I'm stuck in this situation.
Even if you just start takingsteps, like you said, you have
that aha moment.
You have that like I can't dothis anymore.
(37:12):
The only way to get out of thatis to make small steps in any
way that you can, to build power, to have like, start feeling
like you can do it.
Once you feel like you can doit, opportunities open up a lot
more.
But sometimes I think it justtakes one person to believe in
you, to say you're right, to sayyou don't deserve, deserve this
, and let's find a way for youto get out of it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Okay, I love that.
How do?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
people get in touch with you.
So if you go to my website,which is juliebarthauthorcom,
there's a tab for my daughter'sart, my special needs daughter
is a self-taught artist, so shesells our art and the proceeds
go to the CJB Outreach.
So on my website you can readabout me, my books, my podcasts,
(37:56):
and then there's also a tab forthe CJB Outreach, which goes
directly to our organization.
So if you're looking to getinvolved, to make a donation,
we'd love you to help out.
Even if you need our help,please do reach out.
Again, I'm the only personmanning it.
So, if nothing else, like Isaid, it's just nice.
Again, I'm the only personmanning it.
So, if nothing else, like Isaid, it's just nice to have
someone on the other end sayingno, you're not crazy.
Yes, you do need to get out andwe support you.
Whatever that looks like, wewill be there.
(38:18):
I was recently able to help likea 24-year-old girl.
Her husband had stolen herdaughter and they were stuck in
a military base, and I am proudto say that she got her daughter
back and she's at home.
But had she not, within like athree week span, he would have
taken her and she wouldn't havebeen able to get her daughter
back.
So you know it's, it's.
Don't wait until it's too lateto get out.
(38:38):
The damage is only going to getworse, not better.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Now.
I want to talk about thatforever, but I want to talk
about also your books and yourpodcast.
So what do you have?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Um, I have um notes from a Blackberry, like I said,
that's the one that I wroteabout Tatum and Colin, my first
husband.
Um, I have um from Blackberriesto Thorns, which is going to be
coming out this fall, which isthe second marriage getting out
of that and everything that ledup to that Um, and then I'll be
releasing from Thorns toBlossoms, which is kind of
(39:14):
unpacking everything, trying toput in some practical advice and
just words of wisdom and justtrying to connect with a reader
who's if you've sought me out toget inside that piece of you
that's ready to go, but you justneed a little spark or you know
someone to lean on.
I think in a lot of theseyou're just, you don't even want
to talk about it.
You're so tired of talkingabout it Because you know you
start out just kind of likealmost being like any other.
You know significant othercomplaining about your husband,
(39:35):
or you know he's just, oh, he'salways.
And then all of a sudden, themore it goes, the more you're
like I can't even tell peopleanymore, or I don't want to,
don't want to hear it and theydon't want to take up for him,
you know, or they don't want topush your buttons so much that
you're going to start defendingthem, and then they've lost you.
So they're trying to walk thisfine balance too, where they're.
(39:57):
You know, a lot of them tend towalk away because they don't
know how to help you.
But they're not walking awayfrom you.
I can guarantee you.
They're not walking away fromyou.
It feels like they are.
But if you are watchingsomebody hurt themselves over
and over and are unable to stopthe cycle or be engaged in it, I
think it's too hurtful and Ithink that's why people walk,
(40:18):
because they're like I can'thelp her and I can't watch it
either.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Oh, for sure, I had people that kind of disappeared
in my life and you know, Ithought it was me because, of
course, like everything wasalways my fault.
But once I got out they cameback into my life and started
explaining listen, I couldn't bethere because of him.
So, yeah, I get that.
(40:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And it is.
It becomes very, very isolatingand lonely.
And you know, I always say it'slike when you break up with a
boyfriend in high school andeveryone's like I hated that guy
.
You're like why didn't you tellme that?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I hated that guy too.
Oh my gosh, I've had so manypeople say that I'm like, well,
why?
Didn't you say something?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I think that they, you know, but I think that they
felt you weren't ready to hearit either.
And you know, I think it's easyon the outside.
I do tend to, and I hate that Ido this, but I felt like nobody
put their line in the sand andsaid listen, if you do not leave
him, I have to step out.
And this isn't about you, thisis just.
I can't be a party to itanymore, because that would have
(41:22):
made a whole lot more sense andit would have made me feel like
it's not just me and I cansalvage this relationship.
The people that just walked away.
It led me like, oh, I guessthey just think I'm crazy, do
they?
I don't know, I never asked, Ijust walked away.
But in the back of my head I'malso thinking if it were me and
(41:42):
I lost one of my friends and Iheard that they had gotten out,
my first call would have been tothem.
But those are the people thatdo come back and they will be
there no matter what.
And the other people, you justgotta let it go.
They're not with you anyway.
They're not your friends ifthey haven't given you the you
know the space to speak, or ifthey're, if it's more
uncomfortable for them to justwalk away from a situation where
they see you hurting yourselfand feel like they can't do
(42:04):
anything.
Well, I mean, they probablycould have, but it took a lot of
energy, so you know.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, and I mean you can't really fault them.
I mean they have to look outfor their own mental health too,
because it takes a toll to seesomeone that they care about go
through that kind of, that levelof abuse.
Okay, Is there anything else?
Did we miss anything?
Um, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Is there anything else Did we?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
miss anything, I think so Okay, I love this
conversation, um, okay, soeverything they can find is it
all on your website.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
It is so there's three different websites, but
they're all linked to oneanother.
So if you find one um, you knowyou find the rest of them.
All my social media links areon there as well.
Um, I'm trying to get followersfor my daughter's artwork,
which is hopefortatecom, Because, yeah, the story won't show up
until I have 500 followers.
I think I'm stuck at like 320.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Oh, no, Okay, we'll get that yeah you're willing to
follow.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
That would help.
Okay, so it's hopefortate?
Yes, with the number fourT-A-Y-T.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Okay, okay, I'll make sure I have that linked in to
the show notes with us, but I'mgoing to push that We'll get
that.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I love all the social media.
Yeah, I wish I were better.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Oh, so am I?
I actually I was talking to ohmy gosh, she's probably in her
mid-20s now and I said I needhelp with social media, and
she's like I don't really do iteither.
I'm like, come on, I need to, Idon't do it.
You're 20, you have to.
I know, I thought that was a.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, I think even the 20-year-olds are starting to
just not like it as much, whichI think is hopeful for the
world.
To be honest about it, yeah, Iagree, I think so, I think so.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
But yeah, I mean I'm clueless and I ask my friends,
but we're all in our 40s andwe're like, they're like we
don't care.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
We don't pay attention to that.
I can hand it to my teenagerand be like can you do this?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
for me please.
Yes, that's perfect, that'sperfect.
But okay, yeah, I will have allthose links in the show notes
and we're going to do that.
Okay, yes, so thank you so muchfor joining me today, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I know it's hard to talk about this stuff, but I
think it's so important.
I think it helps.
I said this in a recent episode.
I think it helps release shamethat other people who have gone
through it might be feeling andto hear you know well, julie's
talking about it.
Julie went through it the samething, so maybe it's not your
(44:36):
shame to carry and.
I think that this will be superimpactful, as well as all of
your advocacy work, and so Ireally appreciate everything
you're doing and your time forcoming on and talking with me
today.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I appreciate you having me.
Yeah, I think that if we couldall just, you know say what
we've been through, then there'sa lot less shame in knowing
that everybody goes through hardtimes.
You know, it's when you keep ithidden, that's when you feel
shame for it.
So, yeah, if you make a mistake, when you keep it hidden,
that's when you feel shame forit.
So yeah, if you make a mistake,own up to it, put it in your
past and make it easier forother people.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, thank you again.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you again, julie, andthank you, warriors, for
listening.
You can find the links Juliewas referring to, including her
one in three profile in the shownotes.
Let's not forget about Tatum'sartwork.
Make sure to check out herwebsite, hopefortatecom.
(45:35):
That's H-O-P, the number four,t-a-y-tcom.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong andwherever you are in your journey
, always remember you are notalone.
(46:03):
The number one, i-n the numberthree podcastcom.
Follow 1&3 on Instagram,facebook and Twitter at 1&3
Podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate, review and subscribe.
1&3 is a .5 Pinoy productionMusic written and performed by
Tim Crow.
©.
Transcript Emily Beynon.
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