October 8, 2025 • 63 mins
In this episode of 1 in 3, Devyn joins Ingrid to share her powerful domestic violence survivor story—one that began with a late-night knock, a 911 call, and the moment her stepfather returned and pulled a trigger. The small town that knew Teresa, a beloved nurse with a bright laugh and steady hands, now mourned the loss of someone who made others feel safe at their most vulnerable.
Devyn opens up about how her world changed at 14 and what healing has looked like since: panic, nightmares, self-harm, medication, and the long, imperfect process of trauma recovery through therapy. Together, we unpack how abuse hides behind high-functioning alcoholism, why separation is the most dangerous time, and how grief rewires the senses, turning even morning coffee into a reminder of gunpowder.
But this story is also about action, hope, and resilience. Devyn shares how she turned unimaginable pain into purpose—a decade of community runs funding her local domestic violence shelter, volunteering on intake desks, and speaking publicly so silence no longer shields abusers. She honors her mother’s legacy while navigating motherhood after loss, learning to trust again, and teaching her daughter that real strength welcomes support.
This conversation is both heartbreaking and empowering—a reminder that one voice can change lives. You’ll learn about safety planning, believing survivors, and the signs of domestic violence before they escalate. If you’ve ever wondered how to help, or needed someone to say “don’t give up on yourself,” this episode offers compassion and practical guidance.
If Devyn’s story moves you, subscribe, share, and leave a review to help more families find these survivor-led conversations. Your support helps 1 in 3 reach the people who need hope, healing, and a path forward.
Devyn’s 1in3 profile: https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/devyn-oneill/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
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Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Ingrid.
This year marks the fifth yearthe National Network to End
Domestic Violence has carriedthe theme for Domestic Violence
Awareness Month of EveryoneKnows Someone.
Today's episode embodies thatmessage in an incredibly
powerful way.
This is not my story to tell.
(00:23):
So I invite you to join me inwelcoming my guest, Devin.
Hi Devin, welcome to One andThree.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Thanks for having me.
So I know kind of the wholeepisode is going to be your
background, but is there anylittle bit of a background you
want to give to start out with?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Sure.
I'll give you my background asfar as where I am right now.
Um, so I live in a Milwaukeearea, Wisconsin.
Um, I've been married for threeyears, and I just had my first
child.
I had a daughter a year ago.
Um, Charlotte is her name.
And right now I'm home with herfull time, which has been both
(01:04):
the biggest challenge and alsothe biggest blessing.
Um, just kind of being with herall the time, um, and just
learning so much from her, whichhas been really special.
Um, my husband works as ananesthesiologist outside of the
house, and we have also one dog,Ginger.
(01:25):
Um, I come from a very bigblended family.
So my parents were divorced whenI was young, like four, maybe
five years old.
And um, so I never reallyremember them together.
But um, my dad got remarried andI have um two half siblings from
his marriage there.
(01:46):
Um, so we've always been alittle chaotic, very blended,
but a lot of love like allacross the board.
Um, as far as like other partsof my childhood, I grew up in a
small town called Warrens,Wisconsin.
It's literally a village.
And when I was growing up there,our population was literally
unincorporated.
(02:06):
So it was so tiny but socharming.
Um, I grew up on mygrandparents' cranberry marsh
where we didn't really haveneighbors, like for miles, and
our only real neighbors were mygrandma's house on one side and
my uncle's house on the otherside.
Um, so I grew up very close withmy uncles, aunts, grandparents,
(02:29):
and cousins, um, which was justlike such a special way to grow
up.
Um after um I graduated highschool, I went to UW Lacrosse,
got my undergrad, lived andworked in Madison for a few
years in corporate HR, which wasagain a great learning
(02:49):
experience.
It's a special type of job, Iwould say.
Um I went on to get my MBA atWhitewater while I was still
working full-time.
And then, of course, as everyoneknows, COVID happened, and
that's actually when I met myhusband.
So um, yeah, it was a bit of awhirlwind.
Um, we were together for a year,engaged, married the next year,
(03:12):
and now here we are five yearslater with our daughter, our
dog, in our home.
How did you guys meet?
We actually met on hinge.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
As grim as the dating apps lookout there, it does work
sometimes.
Right.
One of the lucky ones there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
There's a lot more horrorstories, I think, than success
stories.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Okay, so part of the reason you're joining me today
is to talk about family andspecifically your mom.
Yes.
And she was a nurse.
Now I grew up in Toma, which uhfor a lot of people listening
are going to have no idea whereToma or was Warren's is, but um
we at least did have apopulation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
I did have to go there for school.
So right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
So I think we had like a population of around
8,000 when I went to highschool, but uh very small town.
Um kind of everybody knowseverything about everyone there.
And even now, um I graduated 30years ago and I still know a lot
about people.
I don't live there.
I I live in Tennessee.
(04:26):
And I still know a lot about alot of people there.
But um, so your mom was a nurseat the hospital, the local
hospital.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Yes, the only hospital.
Yes.
Like 30 mile radius.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
That is true.
That's true.
So uh, do you want to talk alittle bit about um actually
just before we get into like thewhole uh domestic violence end
of the story, but just talkabout her as who she was.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Well, I have so much to say about her.
Um, and I'll disclaim this likefor the duration of this
podcast, in that I share what Iremember today.
Um, and that kind of changes dayto day.
That's one interesting thing Ihave found about not just like
memory, but like trauma in theway you remember things.
(05:19):
Um, so it's not that I um makingthings up as I go.
It's just this is what Iliterally remember today, 16
years later.
So it's been 16 years since I'veseen my mom um or heard her
voice.
And what I remember of her todayis um, first of all, her sense
(05:42):
of humor was well, as ateenager, it was irritating.
Um, but I have such anappreciation for it now because
I I've come to understand that'sjust how she kind of, I mean,
coped with life in some ways,where you just can't be so
serious and just laughing thingsoff, making corny jokes, you
(06:03):
know, kind of annoying your kidsbecause you're trying to connect
with them.
I really as a mom now, I reallyunderstand.
Um, I really understand that somuch better.
And now that I do, I justappreciated that about I
appreciate that about her now,like so much more because um I
think it allowed her to justcarry on the day-to-day with
(06:25):
such a good attitude.
Um my mom never really like satand felt like woe is me or sorry
for herself, like regardless ofthe circumstances.
She was very much, she was likea strong-willed, like half a
(06:46):
glass half full like attitude,and it was very infectious.
Um, coupled with that was herher smile was also very
infectious.
I mean, her smile and laugh werevery infectious, but um, when I
talk to other people about hernow, so many of them will
mention that about her, whereit's like, oh, your mom just
(07:07):
like lit up the room, and it waslike her smile or her laugh or
her humor, whatever it was, shehad such a presence.
Um, and you know, that carriedthrough her career as well.
She was an OB nurse.
So, like the most vulnerabletime in a woman's life is when
you're giving birth.
(07:27):
Um, and she was literally madefor that.
Um, she was just wonderful atit, to the point where we would,
you know, go through the onlygrocery store in our hometown
Walmart at the time.
Um, and people I had never metbefore would stop us and say,
You delivered my son or mydaughter, and like she just made
(07:49):
such an impact on people in likesuch a good way in like such a
vulnerable time of a woman'slife.
And I just really admired thatabout her because I'm sure it
wasn't effortless, but it seemedthat way.
It just seems so natural for herto just treat people with such
(08:10):
dignity, respect, and just theability to like listen when
someone is talking to her.
It's one everybody can hear,right?
Like you can hear peopletalking, but it's different when
you know that somebody'sactually listening to you.
And I feel like that's somethingthat she really had just
mastered.
Um, so all qualities that Ithink the world needs a little
(08:33):
bit more of now.
Of course, we didn't have likeall the technology that we have
today to distract us, but um, Ioften will humble myself in
moments where I'm distracted bythinking about like what kind of
person do I want to be and whatdo I what do I want my daughter
to absorb?
I mean, that's a priority nowtoo.
So I find myself now as amother, thinking about what my
(08:57):
mother did, how she acted, howshe carried herself, and just
like trying to embody that asmuch as possible.
Um, brings me like a certaintype of fulfillment um and joy
because it almost feels likeshe's involved in some ways
because I'm trying to like carryon the way that she carried
(09:18):
herself.
Um the other like really funnything, not funny, but my mom was
only five, two.
So she was a short gal, but shewas incredibly strong.
Like, so strong, and like forjokes and for fun at holidays,
she'd want to arm wrestle allthe men in the family just to
(09:38):
see if she could beat them.
Like, and she really would,like, give them a run for their
money.
And we all just like laugh justlaughed about it because she was
like half serious, half not.
She had a little bit of acompetitive edge to her.
Um she was extremely present inmy life and my brother's life
(09:59):
when it came to our sports, ouracademics, just like always kind
of pushing us to do better thanwe did the day before, um, which
is something that I think stuckwith both of us.
And of course, as a kid, you'reyou know, your parents are
annoying, and it's like, what'swrong with my B?
And why do you want me to get anA and all this?
(10:20):
And she it all came from a placeof just wanting what was best
for us.
And she always, at the end ofthe day, regardless, made us
feel loved.
And I think that's really alllike like kids need, like they
just need to feel loved and tofeel seen and heard, and she
just um again, it like came sonaturally to her.
(10:41):
Like she was incredible at allof that and balancing, like
pushing us to be better humanbeings and like contributing to
the world in a way that would beproductive and kind.
And so I could ramble all dayabout her, um, but she is just
she was special.
(11:01):
Like um, I find that I haven'tfound anyone quite like her.
Um, and maybe I'm biased becausethat was my mom, but um yeah,
she was just incredibly special,and I think the community and
people around us felt that too.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
For sure.
I think that when you have a ifa person like what you described
your mom to be, that that pushthat she like actually was
consciously doing with you andyour brother, she probably also
just subconsciously nudgedeveryone else around her to want
to be better people themselves.
It's it's individuals like thatthat just have this, you know,
(11:41):
they just give off this energy,this happy energy that people
feed off of, but then like feedoff in a good way.
Um that's beautiful.
That's a really beautiful way todescribe your mom.
And listening to you describeher.
I'm I'm being brought to my kidsand how annoying I am to my
(12:02):
kids.
I love all of that about yourmom, and I think it's really
important to point out that shehad such a big impact on your
life, your brother's life, andthen the community.
And that's something that reallyneeds to be recognized that
there's not just one person thatis affected by violence.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it was and I'm sure youcan relate to this too, but it's
especially impactful when yougrow up in a small town.
Yes.
Like you were saying earlier,everybody knows everybody.
Right.
Or somebody knows of somebody,and um just the sheer ripple
effect um seemed so much greateralmost in like a smaller town
(12:48):
because you you make connectionswith like such a large majority
of it.
Whereas, you know, you're notjust like a fish in like the
sea, you're more of like a fishin a pond, so to speak.
Or you run into the other fishin the pond, but maybe you miss
them in the sea.
So um, yeah, it was you nailedit, it's so much greater than
(13:12):
just me or just my family.
It's like impacting thecommunity.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
And do you want to go into a little bit about what
happens?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Yeah.
Um, again, this is what Iremembered today.
I don't I don't practice any ofthis.
I don't like look back atnewspapers and um, you know, I
don't Google my name.
All that.
Um, but yeah, so I think alittle context is important here
(13:44):
in that I mentioned earlier mybiological parents, so my mom
and my dad got divorced when Iwas young.
And I had always had a good goodrelationship with my dad, and he
was very much part of our lives.
He we saw him every otherweekend.
He was like at our sportingevents, like he definitely loved
us.
I don't want to say off fromafar, but there was just some
(14:05):
distance from where he lived andwhere we lived for like a period
of time.
But there was always a you know,they co-parented really well and
all of that.
So my dad got remarried, but mymom also got remarried.
Um, so I think I was eight umwhen they got remarried.
Um, she got married to who wasmy stepfather, Brent.
(14:26):
And um, you know, eight is stilllike very much kid age.
And so he was like a he lived inour house.
Like he in some ways was likearound when we were being
raised, and um, you know, cameto our sport events here and
there.
Like he was a part, he was likea big part of our lives.
Um, and he never had kids of hisown.
(14:51):
So we were just me and mybrother were kind of like quote
unquote his kids um when we weregrowing up at such like a young
age.
So um the thing about Brent wasum he there was so much that I
didn't like really realize abouthim when I was a child that I
(15:11):
understand now as an adult.
Um, one of those things was Ididn't recognize a temper that
he had.
Um, I know my brother hadwitnessed or heard him say a
couple of things that kind ofalluded to him having a short
fuse, but he was never violenttowards us.
I had not I never saw him beviolent towards my mother.
(15:33):
What I did see from him was hewas very aloof.
Um, so we had like a shed, likein our like as part of our
property, and he had kind ofsort of like a man cave of sorts
in the shed.
And um, you know, he spent a lotof time back there and up
playing his guitar or throwingdarts or whatever.
And one thing that I I just likenever thought much of it, but as
(15:57):
an adult, I know that he was inthe shed drinking, um, and just
like away from us.
So what I realize now is he wasjust a source of like
high-functioning alcoholic.
Um, where, you know, one memoryI have very vividly um is we
(16:19):
were camping with my mom, mystepdad.
It was me, my mom, my stepdad,my brother.
And um he opened a beer at 10o'clock in the morning.
And my mom like got emotional.
Like, one thing about my mom isshe I can truly count on like
one hand how many times I've sawI saw her cry.
(16:40):
Um, she was just not she reallykind of like kept it together,
especially in front of us kids.
Um and it was me and her in thecamp, or and she's like crying,
and I'm like trying tounderstand like what why are you
crying?
There was like an exchange, andthen he left, and so it was just
us um at the campsite, and Idon't remember specifically what
(17:03):
she said, but it was almost likein that moment I realized like
what was wrong.
Because there's always like thisunderlying issue, it seemed, um,
but I never could quite put myfinger on it, and maybe it's
because I was a teen, like avery young teenager, or maybe I
just wasn't paying attention ordidn't know what I was looking
(17:24):
for.
Um, but it was kind of in thatmoment that I felt something
bigger was going on here.
So um to make that a long storyshort, they ended up, my mom
ended up filing for divorce umafter they were married for
seven or eight years.
So a long time they weretogether.
And I remember him moving out ofour house and not being a
(17:48):
hundred percent sure why, otherthan they just they weren't
happy together anymore and theywere just like going their
separate ways.
Like that's what I understoodabout it.
Um, so then fast forward, Iwould say roughly a month or
two, and um, it was July 22nd,2009.
Um, my brother was off at amotocross race with my uncle and
(18:12):
my cousins.
And so it's just me and mom athome, and we were doing our
usual wind-down routine atnight, where um I was tucked
into bed, promised uh breakfastin bed for my birthday the next
day, um, which I always lookedforward to.
Um and then, you know, it waskind of like lights out.
(18:34):
Mom was, you know, gettingherself ready for bed, and I was
almost asleep.
It was late, so like maybe10-ish o'clock at night.
I was almost asleep, whatevertime it was.
And I heard a really loud knockon the door, which I always
found, I found in that moment tobe like really odd because we
grew up so far out in thecountry that we never locked our
(18:57):
door for one.
Like I never had a house keygrowing up.
We were just like lived in thesafe community where my
neighbors were my grandparentsand my aunt and uncle, and
whoever was coming would justwalk through the front door.
Um, so I thought that was likevery odd um that someone was
like knocking really loud on thedoor.
So I was like, oh, mom must havelike locked the door.
You know, I didn't think much ofit, kind of rolled over.
(19:20):
And I heard her walk past myroom because we had our bedrooms
upstairs, and then there was themain level.
Heard her walk past my room, godownstairs to, you know, like
see who was there.
And then I heard her scream andthe door hit the wall.
And so I was immediately awake.
(19:40):
I jumped up out of bed, I shutmy door and locked it, and then
I called 911 right away and Ididn't even know what was going
on.
I just know that when you hearsomeone scream like that, you
are a hundred percent sure thatsomething is wrong.
You're just not sure what.
Um, and so I'm talking to the911 operator, and I'm also
(20:05):
listening to see if I can figureout why it why is my mom
screaming.
Um I hear like a man's voice,and it's more of like it's like
they're having a like a heateddiscussion, like they're yelling
at each other.
Um, and you know, I'm like likeI'm trying to like figure out
(20:27):
who that is, and then I hear mymom say, like, I tried for eight
years, and then I was like,okay, and then I heard the man's
voice now like okay, it's Brent.
Like I realize like who it isnow, and I couldn't figure out
why my mom was so scared.
Like, I knew she was scared, Icould hear it in her voice
without even like seeing her.
(20:49):
But when I realized who it was,it was almost like this moment
of like, do I open the door?
Because I know who Brent is.
Um, it's not like there's anintruder in our house, and I
have like no idea who it is.
I don't.
Um, I don't know if it was likeflight, fight freeze like moment
for me, but I was like laserfocused on getting the cops
there like as quickly aspossible.
(21:11):
Um, and so it's felt like aneternity um for them to get
there.
But while they were having theirargument, I'm like telling them,
like, oh, like here's like whatI can hear and like what's going
on.
And then I heard like thisreally loud bang, and it's like
a sound that I've never heard,like from the inside of my
(21:33):
house.
So I thought like a cupboarddoor had slammed shut or like
the the stool from the kitchentable had like fallen on the
floor or something like that.
And then I heard it again, andthen I was like, I realized
like, oh, that was a gun.
Like there's a gun in our house.
Like my my stepfather has a gun.
(21:54):
And so I'm like telling thepolice, like, please hurry.
You know, we live in the middleof nowhere, like they like the
you know, this stuff took timeback then, and um I can still
hear them yelling, despite likethese two gunshots.
The second one actually went upthe stairs, like kind of like
(22:17):
past my bedroom.
I could hear it.
And um, you know, there wasthere was some more arguing, I
heard some glass breaking, andthen there was a third gunshot,
and then I heard a thump, andthen I heard nothing.
Like it was silent.
(22:38):
And then I saw my I didn't seehim get in his truck, but I saw
him like drive away from ourhouse, and it still is like so
quiet.
And so I opened my bedroom door,and I look down the stairs,
which our dining room was right,like you could see it like
looking down the stairs is whereour dining room was, and my mom
(23:01):
was like laying face down on thefloor, and I'm yelling.
I said, Mom, and she didn'tanswer me.
And so I start walking down thestairs to get closer to her, and
I feel wood, like wood chips onmy feet from like where the
bullet had like hit the stairs,and the smell like of gunpowder
(23:22):
was just like so strong in thehouse.
And I yelled again, I said, Mom,and she didn't move, she didn't
answer me, and it was I couldlike see this shadow next to
her, and then it took like amoment, and I realized like that
shadow is actually blood, andshe wasn't responsive, and so I
(23:44):
get scared, and I basically likebegging these people like the
first responders, please like,please get here like as soon as
you can.
And I go back in my room andwait, and it's not long after
that that they show up, and atthat moment it was just like it
was such like a surrealout-of-body experience.
(24:07):
I couldn't even comprehend whatjust happened or what was
happening.
And um I just remember like apolice officer coming upstairs
to like see if I was okay andthey're working on her
downstairs.
So now they have me upstairs andher downstairs, and like no
one's like really goinganywhere.
Um, at that point, I think theywere just they got a sheet and
(24:29):
they're like, you know, likeholding it up so they could like
protect me from like seeing themlike work on her and like get
her to the hospital like asquickly as possible.
So that's all happening.
And then, you know, they likesend her off in the ambulance.
And I remember I had to use myhouse phone, if you can believe
(24:51):
that, um, to call my grandma,who was my neighbor, so my mom's
mom.
And I had to tell her what justhappened.
And so she comes down.
I'm still not able to leave thehouse, she can't come in.
Like, there's just it's sochaotic, and everybody's kind of
like just doing their best atthis point.
Um, finally, they're able tokind of escort me out of the
(25:14):
house.
Um, and I just remember they putoxygen over my face, and I
didn't really understand why,but I was like struggling, like
I was struggling to breathebecause I it's just like I had
no control over what my body,like how my body was responding
to everything I just like heardand saw.
(25:34):
So we um follow, we go straightto the hospital.
Meanwhile, my stepfather isstill just like driving around
um in his truck.
Police are looking for him allthat.
Um, he ends up running into likea parked car, and he was like
double or triple the bloodalcohol limit.
(25:56):
Um, so he is in custody, youknow, like that part is honestly
that was secondary.
All we were worried about waslike, is our mom okay?
And um so we go to the hospital,the same one where she worked,
brought life into the worldevery day, every week.
And we just sat um in theemergency waiting room.
(26:19):
And it was like this big groupof our family, uh, like
everybody.
Um, even my dad was like drivingin the car on his way from like
way out of town, just like bewith us.
And we sat there for like aneternity.
It felt like I actually, Ingridhave no idea how long we're in
that waiting room.
(26:39):
I just felt like forever.
Um, and then just like a sceneout of the movies, the doctor
comes out of the double doors ofthe ER and says, like, I'm so
sorry, like we did everything wecould do.
And I remember like watchingeveryone around me like
understandably, like, break downand cry.
(27:01):
And I couldn't.
It was almost like I wasfrustrated that I couldn't.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
But I was so I was so known what I just saw.
Like the gravity of it.
It had it hit me.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
And I was almost like, I should be crying right
now.
It's like I can't.
So we couldn't go home becauseour home was a crime scene.
It was the only house we everlived in.
Um that's where we grew up, andso we ended up actually like
staying at the hospital.
(27:44):
Um they got us a room, and meand my brother crammed together
in one of those tiny hospitalbeds and just like laid next to
each other.
And I just remember like we werelooking at the clock.
I don't know if it was midnightor two in the morning, but he
just like kind of nudged me andsaid, like, happy birthday dad.
(28:08):
And it was like so sincere.
Um and then after after that, itwas like it was so intense, it
was like the most massivewhirlwind like ever.
And I just remember being likewondering, like, where are we
gonna live?
(28:29):
Um because like we can't gohome.
And um honestly, like evenliving with my grandma was
probably not a good idea for meat the time because she was
right next to our house.
Like for me, it was like almostlike being as far away from that
as possible was kind of likeprobably what was needed at the
(28:50):
time.
I don't remember making a lot ofthese decisions because I
probably didn't.
I was a teenager, uh, freshlylike 15.
So our family and friends justlike really stepped up and um
like did whatever they needed todo to protect us.
So um, my dad's mom also livesin Toma.
Um, so we ended up staying withher um for like a period of time
(29:13):
so we could like figure out ourliving situation.
My dad had to move from severalhours away back to Toma and then
like figure out like what are wegonna do?
How are we gonna do this?
And um I'm just so I was like sothankful for him.
Um because he had like thiswhole other family like this
part of his family um that wasalso being like impacted by this
(29:37):
because now his two of his kidslike don't have a mom.
So like now what do I do when Ihave these other two kids and
it's just it was like veryintense.
And so the next day we're at mydad's mom's house and my grandma
Sue's, and um I had I called mygodmother, who is my mom's best
(29:58):
friend, Cindy, and And um who bythe way is still like a huge
part of my life.
Um and I'm like so thankful forher.
But I remember calling her andlike for the first time, like
saying out loud like whathappened, like telling her what
I just told you, and I finallycould cry.
(30:20):
It was like the those like hottears that like you can like
feel in your bones almost.
And it was like in that moment,that's how long it took for me
to like feel the emotion that Ilike needed to feel like a
release because it can became soreal.
Like when I had to tell someonewhat happened, um, it was it
(30:43):
didn't feel like this bad dreamanymore.
It was like, oh no, like this isreal life, she's actually gone.
And like I actually just sawthat.
Um the funeral was difficultbecause my mom was only 37.
So um usually at 37 you don'thave arrangements like put
(31:04):
together.
So we kind of did our best umand did like what we thought
that she would want.
And um, I remember like even herwake, like looking at her in the
casket and like just didn't looklike her.
I don't know that anyone everreally looks like themselves
after they pass, but that wasalso like very um difficult for
(31:30):
me to see her like so still andjust like not her color, and um,
she just looked so not herself.
Um so it's almost like in thatway I felt like I don't even
know if I felt like I really gotto say goodbye to her because it
didn't even like look like her.
(31:50):
Um, but I remember at her wake,there was like, I'm not joking,
like hours of of people, likelines of people like showing up
for her.
And that's where like I reallyunderstood her impact in the
community is like the sheervolume of people that like came
to say their goodbyes to her wasso it was like shocking, but
(32:16):
also like so special.
Um, because I was like, whoa,I'm not the only one who thought
like she was so special.
Um you know, you try to likerealize your own bias, but like
when I when I could see thesepeople like showing up for her,
I was like, oh my gosh, likethis is like so much bigger than
like I thought, like so muchbigger than like just our little
(32:39):
family.
And um we had her funeral, andum, you know, she was buried
like two miles from where I grewup, and um like that's where
she, you know, like was laid torest.
And so the real aftermath waslike almost when the dust
(33:01):
settled.
Um it's like when the dustsettled as far as like her her
funeral was over, like we weretrying, we were navigating like
basically like what happensnext.
You know, this happened at theend of July, so school was
coming at the beginning ofSeptember.
Like, what's that gonna looklike?
And there was just like so manyunknowns.
(33:21):
Is my dad moving here?
Like, what's going on?
Um, but like as an individual,the more time went on in like
those early days and months, themore it kept setting in on like
the damage that it did to me.
Um, like as someone who likewitnessed their mother like
(33:45):
getting murdered, because that'swhat it was.
And so I struggled, like I'venever struggled before, and like
my mom, I'm not a superemotional person, um, especially
when I was younger.
I've certainly softened up sinceI've had a daughter, but um, I
just never I never was like areally emotional person.
(34:08):
It's like because I couldn'trelease my emotions through
tears, I like struggled in likemore dark ways.
Um I could not, I would juststare at my bedroom door, and it
wasn't even my bedroom, it was abedroom at my grandma's house.
I would just stare at it withlike the most irrational
thoughts, just thinking like Ihad myself convinced that my
(34:30):
stepdad was gonna like break outof jail and he was gonna come
after me.
And I just couldn't, it was soirrational, and I knew that, but
it's like I I couldn't shake it,like I couldn't control that.
Um, and I would just stare.
And my grandma would make coffeeevery morning, like as people
do.
And for some reason, the smellof her coffee smelled like
(34:53):
gunpowder to me, and it wouldmake me so nauseous, um, so
nauseous.
Um it's you know, like it wasthe all these little things that
were happening where it waslike, oh, I can't just like get
over this.
Like this actually has a muchmore intense impact than a
(35:17):
person could ever comprehend it,like unless it happens to them.
Um, which I found as a teenagerto be very frustrating in a lot
of ways because one, I couldn'tproperly articulate my emotions,
and two, I could see otherpeople coping and moving
forward, not moving on withtheir lives, but moving forward
with their lives.
(35:38):
And I felt like very stuck.
Where it's like my brain wasjust on a loop of like just
constantly like everything I hadseen, smelt, like it was so
fresh that you know, whensomeone passes, you start moving
forward with your life, like asmuch as you can, but I couldn't.
Um and I I held it in in like somany ways.
(36:04):
At one point, I resorted toself-harm.
I would take the end off a bobbypin and I would scratch my face
because it made not because Iwanted to feel pain, but because
it made it feel like um, it mademe feel seen and like not
forgotten about.
Where it was like I had allthese people like worried about
(36:26):
me and like protecting me andloving me, but almost in a way
angry, where they were likeafraid because they didn't know
what to do.
Like this was such unchartedterritory for everyone involved,
including myself, where it waslike it's almost like I was like
desperate to be seen for who Iwas, like as a as a person
versus like what I had just seenwitnessed.
(36:49):
And I think that was verycomplicated for people because
it was, you know, I was ateenager and there was like this
love, like protecting me was thepriority, like as any parent or
loved one would.
But what I needed was like, no,I need you to understand, like
this is still so I haven't beenable to move forward at all.
Not even like 1%.
(37:10):
And it made me like deeply hurtand angry.
Just feel like I felt like somuch of my youth, my joy, my
like blissful ignorance, as theycall it when you're young, had
been like stolen from me.
And I was dealing with somethingso heavy that I really didn't
(37:31):
know how to deal with it.
Um, and I took it out in allthese unhealthy ways to try to
like get people to understandlike how much this was still
really impacting me.
Um it took a while, but I didgo, I did start therapy and I
went regularly.
Um I got on some medication foranxiety and depression.
(37:54):
Um, and I was just everyone was,we were all just figuring out as
we went.
And in the meantime, it's like,how am I, how is my brother, how
is my family supposed to justlike go back to nor like what's
normal?
Like I'll just go to school in amonth and just try to act like
(38:17):
that didn't just happen.
It was so there was no winningin this situation, and there was
no right way to go about it.
Um, and so we just did our best,like most people do.
And um going back to school wasintense because it was a similar
thing where it's like all of asudden, instead of Devin, I was
(38:37):
Teresa's daughter, and I becamewhat happened to me instead of
like who I was.
Um, and that was like a veryhard shift because I again like
as understandable as it was, itwas like I was craving so badly
(38:58):
to just be treated normally, um,by my friends, my teachers, my
family.
Um, obviously that's a very hardthing to do on their end because
they nothing about what ithappened to me is normal.
Um, and so it was just a reallytough position to be in.
And I struggled.
(39:20):
Um, that was my sophomore yearof high school.
And I a whole year I struggledwith panic attacks, anxiety,
like deep depression, and I wasjust trying to like get through
the day.
Um I was just trying to getthrough the day, and I was I was
becoming so impatient withmyself because I was like,
(39:41):
again, desperate for like asense of normalcy.
And it's like I couldn't like Icouldn't get it fast enough.
Um it it took so much longerthan I ever thought, and a lot
of work on my end um to kind ofheal, like start the healing
(40:03):
process, um, and like acceptingthe gravity and like the
permanency behind what happened.
Like there was no undoing it.
And I think that was the hardestpart was like there's nothing I
can do to bring her back.
There's nothing I can do to likeerase what I had just seen.
Um, and our whole world flippedupside down.
(40:24):
Mine did, my brothers did, my myfamilies.
We were all very close.
My family, we're just thecommunity, everything was just
uh like catastrophic.
Sounds dramatic, but that's whatit felt like.
Um so there was um huge shiftsin what was normal.
I had to like reinvent what wasnormal for me.
(40:48):
I had to actively find ways tocope more like in a more healthy
sense.
Um so one of those ways where Iwas just like, I turn my coping
is like action.
So like I'm a doer, I like goget her.
Like, how can I make the worldbetter?
(41:09):
And I will say everything thathappened is awful, and I would
do anything to like get herback.
At the same time, I feel this umalmost like this gratitude for
how I'm able to see life now andlike the world, where it's like
unfortunately, sometimes ittakes something so traumatic to
(41:33):
have such an appreciation foryour life, understanding how
fragile it is that you how muchof an impact you can make on
somebody else's life, and tobasically not waste it.
And so that's how I found my wayto cope.
And I just it was a constantgame of like, okay, what would
(41:54):
my mom do?
Or like what would she want usto do?
And like that's what that was myguiding light, because it felt
like one, she was still part ofmy life in some in some way, and
two, it was almost like I canmake this horrible thing that
happened to us productive inlike some way, and that's that's
(42:17):
how we started like movingforward as a family.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Devin, I am um, I usually can keep myself very
well composed with hearing thesestories, but this like you've
your story really got me, and umI mean I um all the feelings,
all the trauma you went throughso much trauma in just one
(42:41):
night.
Um I mean, just taking if youjust were to exert like just
take one piece of what you wentthrough that night, that's
enough trauma for one person.
But everything that youwitnessed, the fact that it was
your mom, the fact that you'refreaking 14 years old, um, and
to still have like thewherewithal to call 911 and
(43:05):
immediately step into action, umof course you didn't move on.
Um of course, and I don't thinkcatastrophic is too big of a
word.
I think that absolutely um whenyou are a teenager and your mom
is taken away from you in such abrutal fashion, catastrophe that
(43:26):
that's absolutely the umappropriate word.
Um I am uh I'm usually not at aloss for words either.
Like I can't I can usually talkabout anything.
But um first of all, thank youso much for sharing that because
that is a very difficult thingto share and and relive and um
(43:51):
including the parts of therapy.
I know it's difficult for somepeople to to discuss therapy and
the things that you were talkingabout, your somatic responses to
things, the smells and sightsand sounds and everything that
that is definitely somethingthat a lot of people bury and
don't address.
(44:12):
I'm also a doer.
Um after uh feeling that I wasokay after my um domestic
violence uh relationship, I wentinto therapy and I was like,
let's do this, let's get itdone.
I want it, I wanted to go in andget out and be and move on.
And unfortunately, that's nothow things work.
And for lack of something moreprofound to say, just all of it
(44:37):
sucks and none of it's fair.
I mean, the impact it had on youand your brother and your dad
and all of the individuals ofyour family and your dad's
family and the community, noneof it is fair.
I mean, it's not fair for likethe for the teachers to have to
try to figure out how to try tomake life normal for you.
It's not fair for your friendsto try to figure out how do I,
(45:00):
how am I supposed to be a friendand give her some normalcy, but
then not act like I'm forgettingabout her mom.
I mean, none of it is fair.
None of it is fair.
SPEAKER_01 (45:13):
Yeah.
Um, and like it almost felt likean impossible task for
everybody.
Yeah.
Like no one was set up forsuccess.
Um, and like, what's the bestway to go about this?
Um, yeah, so I mean, Iunderstand that so much better
now that I'm older and like Ihave more insight and like life
experience, but the impact stilllike lives with me.
(45:39):
The trauma still lives with me.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes a week something so benign
will trigger my brain, likeunintentionally, and I'm just
like staring at my mom on thedining room floor again.
It's been so long, and it'slike, when am I gonna shake
this?
And I will go through these likestints of like nightmares, like
(46:02):
night terror, like nightmares,where she's never in them,
ironically.
Um, but it's always me not beingable to move and like I'm
watching something reallyviolent happen to somebody I
know or love or care about.
Um, and it's it's like I don'tknow if there's enough time um
(46:27):
in like a lifetime for me tolike completely heal from those
things.
So it's just become for mepersonally, more how do I best
cope with this?
Because this is part of who I amnow, and I don't need to let it
control me, I don't need to letit like ruin my life.
Um it's just part of who I am,and like being able to accept
(46:51):
that has made it easier to cope,and it's almost like I took my
power back in some ways whereit's like, yeah, this happened,
but actually, like I get todecide what the rest of my life
looks like.
I get to decide, um, I thinkmore people need to hear that
(47:13):
and believe it.
Like it's one thing for someoneto tell you, like, you can do
anything, you'd be anything, butyou need to believe that um and
take action for no one butyourself, and knowing that
you've so much more power,bravery, compassion than like
(47:33):
you ever thought you could, andlike what a gift, like what a
gift um to like live a life morefulfilled with more kindness and
um like more compassion, andit's just uh yeah, it's as
(47:54):
twisted as it sounds that I feellucky in that way.
Um I have so much more life leftto live and I get to decide what
that looks like.
Um I mean, like part of that islike thanks to my mom, of
course, because she thought thatwas also like just her attitude
where it was like I can dowhatever I want and I will.
Um, and she did, and it was justso um admirable.
(48:18):
And uh again, like I just embodyas much as of her as I can.
SPEAKER_00 (48:24):
And from things I've been told about you and things
that I've read about you, youyou have been doing that.
You organized a walk for yourmom.
SPEAKER_01 (48:33):
So I will say I was certainly a helping hand, um,
but my godmother Cindy was ahuge, she was the captain of
that ship.
Like she drove it, she made surethat I was involved as much as I
wanted to be, um, and that mybrother had, you know, that we
(48:54):
were like almost acknowledgedand included.
Um, and I just found it to beone, very helpful for healing
again, um, because we were likedirectly impacting, like
positively impacting otherpeople's lives, like other
survivors of domestic violence.
Um, so we yes, we had an annualrun walk for a decade.
(49:19):
It kind of morphed into like,you know, different variations
of that.
But at the end of the day, for10 years straight, once a year,
we had this huge fundraiser inmy mom's honor and her memory,
where we would raise funds forour local um domestic violence
shelter and resource center.
Um, and that was also incrediblyhumbling in a lot of ways
(49:44):
because it made me realize likehow fortunate I am to have this
like absolute like unit ofsupport when it came to my
family and my friends and mycommunity.
Because not everyone is thatlucky.
There are so many victims ofdomestic violence who don't who
(50:07):
have been so isolated they don'thave anybody else.
And so they have this resourcecenter, they have this shelter,
and that's what they have, andso um I was I just felt every
year I was reminded like howfortunate I am to like have this
like other huge group of peoplebehind me.
(50:30):
Um and that not everybody is solucky, and so um being able to
bring a little bit more hope, alittle bit more resource to
other women and their familieswas really special.
Like really special.
So um, yeah, we did a lot happenin 10 years.
(50:54):
Um, graduated high school, wentto college, and kind of started
that moving forward process withmy life.
Um, but I still stayed veryconnected to the domestic
violence community, likesurvivor community.
Um, I volunteered at a shelterum in college where I would do
intakes for like new um, I wasguess you'd say survivors who
(51:19):
like needed to stay at ourshelter, getting them resources,
restocking, making sure theyhave what they need.
And um I did so much silently.
Um I still cared so deeply aboutthis, I guess if you wanted to
call it a cause, but honestly,it's an issue because it's
(51:42):
preventable, right?
And so it's such a deeply rootedissue that um it's gonna take
more than just me to like quoteunquote fix it.
Um, but I will say something Istruggled with before coming
here today was I know my friendsand my family, some of them will
(52:03):
listen to this, and it's like,oh gosh, like I don't I'm gonna
like expose them to like thesedetails and like this trauma.
And um for me what's moreimportant is if I don't, if I
don't talk about it, then whowill?
(52:24):
Like who's gonna talk about it?
And if these details and that mystory makes you uncomfortable, I
want people to think about that.
Think about it.
This should be talked aboutbecause it shouldn't be
happening at all.
And the more we bottle it up,and I used to be a professional
battle upper.
(52:45):
Um we bottle it up, the more itjust goes on quietly and makes
it seem like it's okay um forthese types of things to happen,
whether it's you're like theworst case scenario, like what
happened to my mom, or anythingin between.
Like none of it's okay.
And I I want to make that clear.
(53:05):
And so that's just where it'snot about my feelings anymore.
Like it's about protecting otherpeople because I want this to
happen.
This shouldn't happen to anybodyelse.
SPEAKER_00 (53:18):
You're absolutely right.
I think so many people, when itcomes to either those who have
witnessed domestic violence orhave experienced it, are afraid
to speak.
I mean, there's some legitimatefear because of a fear of
repercussions.
But then there's there's alsothe fear of what is everyone
else going to think and how isthis going to make everybody
(53:38):
feel?
And I don't care anymore.
It should make people feeluncomfortable.
It's not a comfortable situationin the fact that people are
living this day in and day out,and you know, just holding on
every day, just trying tosurvive.
It should feel uncomfortable tounderstand that people are doing
that, that there are children inthe homes that are witnessing
(54:00):
these things happen.
Um I uh I wanted to say, likethis whole episode has me so
emotional, like, and so manydifferent for so many different
reasons.
But um I I said and I wonder ifI ever crossed paths with your
mom.
I think we were not that farapart in age.
Uh how old would she be today?
SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
Today she would be I'm not estimate in her early
50s.
SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
Okay, yeah.
So I'm I mean, I'm 48, I'm classof 95.
So I feel like we may have, youknow, crossed paths at some
point.
And but uh I never knew her.
I can say I never knew herpersonally.
Um but the way you described herand everything that you have
done, this is a part that'sgetting me emotional.
(54:49):
Um you were embodying herspirit.
Everything that you describedabout her as far as this
beautiful person, everythingthat you have done is that.
I mean, I would just when yousaid you have never met another
person like her, you need totake a look in the mirror, to be
honest, because I mean, this theincredible work that you're
(55:11):
doing, despite the trauma thatyou went through, that you're
going through to help otherpeople, um, you know, to be part
of that walk as freaking a highschool kid, you know, um the
stuff that you went through andthe things that you have done,
the fact that you're raising adaughter, um, and you're keeping
your mom's memory alive, likeyou coming on this podcast, um,
(55:33):
all of this is so incrediblystrong and so incredibly
important.
And just even telling the worststory of your life, you st you
still emit this like light aboutyou that you pull people in.
And I want to thank you forthat.
And I want, I hope that yourealize what an incredible woman
(55:55):
you are.
SPEAKER_01 (55:56):
Appreciate that.
It's like the best complimentever.
It really is.
Um, yeah, I appreciate that alot.
And I just hope that someoneelse feels like seen and heard
in that the thing about likedomestic violence, um, is it
just like it doesn't look acertain way.
(56:17):
Anyone on the street walking bywould not look would not guess
that about me.
And like that's part of mypoint, is because like people of
all like all types of people aredealing with this and they're
dealing with it like silently.
Um that's the that's like part ahuge part of the problem is like
they're dealing with itsilently.
(56:39):
So I'm just like flattered thatI can be at least one more voice
that's not so silent, and thathopefully, if nothing else, it
empowers like another woman toknow that like she's just just
so much braver and stronger thanshe like gives herself credit
(57:00):
for.
I just want more I want morewomen to like not only hear that
but believe it.
SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
Yeah.
Um before we close it youth, isthere anything that you want
else you wanted to share that wedidn't touch on?
SPEAKER_01 (57:15):
I mean that I'm like I said earlier, like I could
talk about her, I could talkabout the impact of like of this
all for forever.
Like it's because it really hasnever like left um my life.
Um I will say that a wound haslike opened for me that I didn't
(57:37):
even know I was gonna have.
You know, my mom has been gonefor like so many of my life
events, whereas like graduatinghigh school, graduating college,
um getting married, like hugelife events.
And then, you know, last year,last September, I had my
daughter.
And becoming a mother myself hasalmost like picked the scab that
(58:02):
I didn't even know I had.
And it's like so raw.
Like this is easily the hardestthing I've done without her.
Um, it's so difficult to be amom without your mom.
Um, especially when you're likelearning how to do it.
So um I really like leaned on mycircle, my community.
(58:24):
And it just made me like reallyreflect on how many other women
who have kids who are in thissituation that also feel like
alone in a lot of ways.
And I just want you to hear thatyou're not.
Um there's so many people whocare and are like willing to
help.
You just have to be brave enoughto ask, um, which is something
(58:44):
that I'm working on myself.
SPEAKER_00 (58:47):
Same.
SPEAKER_01 (58:48):
Yeah.
Uh yeah, not super good at that.
Um, but I'm working on it, and Ijust want to like lead by
example, honestly.
And like if you're listening tothis and you feel like you're
doing it all alone and likeyou're just protecting your
kids, like you don't have to doit alone.
That's the thing, is likethere's no real reward like for
doing it alone, um, other thanit's just really hard.
(59:11):
So um lean on your people andfind your people to lean on,
reach out and ask.
Um, yeah, you deserve the help.
Um, and you're no less of amother for asking for it.
Um, so that's one other thingthat I really wanted to share
(59:32):
because I know how many otherwomen who are maybe pr too proud
or too scared um to ask forhelp.
And if anything, I think itmakes you a stronger person for
knowing that you actually notonly don't have to do it all,
but you shouldn't.
(59:52):
Because you can doesn't mean youshould.
Um, so just lean on your people,lean on your community.
Um Yeah, you you're alreadyyou're already doing a great
job.
That's another thing I needother moms to hear is especially
moms who are in unhealthyrelationships or violent
(01:00:14):
situations, like you are doingan amazing job.
You're an amazing mother.
Um so don't be afraid to likeask for help.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:25):
I actually tell my daughter she's very independent,
she's young.
Um, and I always tell her Iappreciate her independence, but
I say, you know, the strongestpeople ask for help.
And I had told my like I stillgo to therapy, but I told my
therapist this, and she said,Can you say that out loud one
more time for yourself to hear?
(01:00:46):
Because it is a very difficultthing to do.
I am a definitely uhdo-it-yourselfer person, my you
know, and um but yeah, those arereally, really important things
for people to hear, you know,domestic violence situation or
not, mom's motherhood isdifficult.
Yes.
I think there's an expectationthat you're supposed to have
(01:01:07):
this automatic gut feeling ofknowing what to do and like this
motherly yeah, this motherlyinstinct.
I was I remember when I firsthad my child, I was like, where
is that?
And how come I didn't get it?
Um But you bring so many goodpoints, so many like definite
(01:01:27):
like take-home messages, but uhis there one specific strength
or message that you would wantto leave with listeners today?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:38):
I would say more than anything, just don't give
up on yourself.
And you are so worthy of ahealthy and safe life, and one
where you find your own joy andfulfillment.
So while it might feel likeother people might give up on
you, just don't ever give up onyourself and keep trying, keep
(01:02:00):
moving going forward, keeppushing.
Um, you are just so strongerthan you think you are.
unknown (01:02:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:10):
And then just before we say goodbye, and you want to
say your mom's name just soeverybody can Teresa.
Teresa.
Okay, thank you so much, Devin.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:20):
Thank you, Ingrid.
Take care.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:21):
You too.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:22):
Bye-bye.
unknown (01:02:23):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:26):
Thank you again for joining me today, Devin, and
thank you, warriors, forlistening.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong, andwherever you are in your
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
(01:02:46):
Find more information, registeras a guest, or leave a review by
going to the website one andthreepodcast.com.
That's the number one the numberthree podcast.com.
Follow one in three onInstagram, Facebook, and Twitter
at one and three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate review and subscribe.
(01:03:07):
One and three is a.5 Pinoyproduction.
Music written and performed byTim Crow.
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Ingrid.
This year marks the fifth yearthe National Network to End
Domestic Violence has carriedthe theme for Domestic Violence
Awareness Month of EveryoneKnows Someone.
Today's episode embodies thatmessage in an incredibly
powerful way.
This is not my story to tell.
(00:23):
So I invite you to join me inwelcoming my guest, Devin.
Hi Devin, welcome to One andThree.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Thanks for having me.
So I know kind of the wholeepisode is going to be your
background, but is there anylittle bit of a background you
want to give to start out with?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Sure.
I'll give you my background asfar as where I am right now.
Um, so I live in a Milwaukeearea, Wisconsin.
Um, I've been married for threeyears, and I just had my first
child.
I had a daughter a year ago.
Um, Charlotte is her name.
And right now I'm home with herfull time, which has been both
(01:04):
the biggest challenge and alsothe biggest blessing.
Um, just kind of being with herall the time, um, and just
learning so much from her, whichhas been really special.
Um, my husband works as ananesthesiologist outside of the
house, and we have also one dog,Ginger.
(01:25):
Um, I come from a very bigblended family.
So my parents were divorced whenI was young, like four, maybe
five years old.
And um, so I never reallyremember them together.
But um, my dad got remarried andI have um two half siblings from
his marriage there.
(01:46):
Um, so we've always been alittle chaotic, very blended,
but a lot of love like allacross the board.
Um, as far as like other partsof my childhood, I grew up in a
small town called Warrens,Wisconsin.
It's literally a village.
And when I was growing up there,our population was literally
unincorporated.
(02:06):
So it was so tiny but socharming.
Um, I grew up on mygrandparents' cranberry marsh
where we didn't really haveneighbors, like for miles, and
our only real neighbors were mygrandma's house on one side and
my uncle's house on the otherside.
Um, so I grew up very close withmy uncles, aunts, grandparents,
(02:29):
and cousins, um, which was justlike such a special way to grow
up.
Um after um I graduated highschool, I went to UW Lacrosse,
got my undergrad, lived andworked in Madison for a few
years in corporate HR, which wasagain a great learning
(02:49):
experience.
It's a special type of job, Iwould say.
Um I went on to get my MBA atWhitewater while I was still
working full-time.
And then, of course, as everyoneknows, COVID happened, and
that's actually when I met myhusband.
So um, yeah, it was a bit of awhirlwind.
Um, we were together for a year,engaged, married the next year,
(03:12):
and now here we are five yearslater with our daughter, our
dog, in our home.
How did you guys meet?
We actually met on hinge.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
As grim as the dating apps lookout there, it does work
sometimes.
Right.
One of the lucky ones there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
There's a lot more horrorstories, I think, than success
stories.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Okay, so part of the reason you're joining me today
is to talk about family andspecifically your mom.
Yes.
And she was a nurse.
Now I grew up in Toma, which uhfor a lot of people listening
are going to have no idea whereToma or was Warren's is, but um
we at least did have apopulation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
I did have to go there for school.
So right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
So I think we had like a population of around
8,000 when I went to highschool, but uh very small town.
Um kind of everybody knowseverything about everyone there.
And even now, um I graduated 30years ago and I still know a lot
about people.
I don't live there.
I I live in Tennessee.
(04:26):
And I still know a lot about alot of people there.
But um, so your mom was a nurseat the hospital, the local
hospital.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Yes, the only hospital.
Yes.
Like 30 mile radius.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
That is true.
That's true.
So uh, do you want to talk alittle bit about um actually
just before we get into like thewhole uh domestic violence end
of the story, but just talkabout her as who she was.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Well, I have so much to say about her.
Um, and I'll disclaim this likefor the duration of this
podcast, in that I share what Iremember today.
Um, and that kind of changes dayto day.
That's one interesting thing Ihave found about not just like
memory, but like trauma in theway you remember things.
(05:19):
Um, so it's not that I um makingthings up as I go.
It's just this is what Iliterally remember today, 16
years later.
So it's been 16 years since I'veseen my mom um or heard her
voice.
And what I remember of her todayis um, first of all, her sense
(05:42):
of humor was well, as ateenager, it was irritating.
Um, but I have such anappreciation for it now because
I I've come to understand that'sjust how she kind of, I mean,
coped with life in some ways,where you just can't be so
serious and just laughing thingsoff, making corny jokes, you
(06:03):
know, kind of annoying your kidsbecause you're trying to connect
with them.
I really as a mom now, I reallyunderstand.
Um, I really understand that somuch better.
And now that I do, I justappreciated that about I
appreciate that about her now,like so much more because um I
think it allowed her to justcarry on the day-to-day with
(06:25):
such a good attitude.
Um my mom never really like satand felt like woe is me or sorry
for herself, like regardless ofthe circumstances.
She was very much, she was likea strong-willed, like half a
(06:46):
glass half full like attitude,and it was very infectious.
Um, coupled with that was herher smile was also very
infectious.
I mean, her smile and laugh werevery infectious, but um, when I
talk to other people about hernow, so many of them will
mention that about her, whereit's like, oh, your mom just
(07:07):
like lit up the room, and it waslike her smile or her laugh or
her humor, whatever it was, shehad such a presence.
Um, and you know, that carriedthrough her career as well.
She was an OB nurse.
So, like the most vulnerabletime in a woman's life is when
you're giving birth.
(07:27):
Um, and she was literally madefor that.
Um, she was just wonderful atit, to the point where we would,
you know, go through the onlygrocery store in our hometown
Walmart at the time.
Um, and people I had never metbefore would stop us and say,
You delivered my son or mydaughter, and like she just made
(07:49):
such an impact on people in likesuch a good way in like such a
vulnerable time of a woman'slife.
And I just really admired thatabout her because I'm sure it
wasn't effortless, but it seemedthat way.
It just seems so natural for herto just treat people with such
(08:10):
dignity, respect, and just theability to like listen when
someone is talking to her.
It's one everybody can hear,right?
Like you can hear peopletalking, but it's different when
you know that somebody'sactually listening to you.
And I feel like that's somethingthat she really had just
mastered.
Um, so all qualities that Ithink the world needs a little
(08:33):
bit more of now.
Of course, we didn't have likeall the technology that we have
today to distract us, but um, Ioften will humble myself in
moments where I'm distracted bythinking about like what kind of
person do I want to be and whatdo I what do I want my daughter
to absorb?
I mean, that's a priority nowtoo.
So I find myself now as amother, thinking about what my
(08:57):
mother did, how she acted, howshe carried herself, and just
like trying to embody that asmuch as possible.
Um, brings me like a certaintype of fulfillment um and joy
because it almost feels likeshe's involved in some ways
because I'm trying to like carryon the way that she carried
(09:18):
herself.
Um the other like really funnything, not funny, but my mom was
only five, two.
So she was a short gal, but shewas incredibly strong.
Like, so strong, and like forjokes and for fun at holidays,
she'd want to arm wrestle allthe men in the family just to
(09:38):
see if she could beat them.
Like, and she really would,like, give them a run for their
money.
And we all just like laugh justlaughed about it because she was
like half serious, half not.
She had a little bit of acompetitive edge to her.
Um she was extremely present inmy life and my brother's life
(09:59):
when it came to our sports, ouracademics, just like always kind
of pushing us to do better thanwe did the day before, um, which
is something that I think stuckwith both of us.
And of course, as a kid, you'reyou know, your parents are
annoying, and it's like, what'swrong with my B?
And why do you want me to get anA and all this?
(10:20):
And she it all came from a placeof just wanting what was best
for us.
And she always, at the end ofthe day, regardless, made us
feel loved.
And I think that's really alllike like kids need, like they
just need to feel loved and tofeel seen and heard, and she
just um again, it like came sonaturally to her.
(10:41):
Like she was incredible at allof that and balancing, like
pushing us to be better humanbeings and like contributing to
the world in a way that would beproductive and kind.
And so I could ramble all dayabout her, um, but she is just
she was special.
(11:01):
Like um, I find that I haven'tfound anyone quite like her.
Um, and maybe I'm biased becausethat was my mom, but um yeah,
she was just incredibly special,and I think the community and
people around us felt that too.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
For sure.
I think that when you have a ifa person like what you described
your mom to be, that that pushthat she like actually was
consciously doing with you andyour brother, she probably also
just subconsciously nudgedeveryone else around her to want
to be better people themselves.
It's it's individuals like thatthat just have this, you know,
(11:41):
they just give off this energy,this happy energy that people
feed off of, but then like feedoff in a good way.
Um that's beautiful.
That's a really beautiful way todescribe your mom.
And listening to you describeher.
I'm I'm being brought to my kidsand how annoying I am to my
(12:02):
kids.
I love all of that about yourmom, and I think it's really
important to point out that shehad such a big impact on your
life, your brother's life, andthen the community.
And that's something that reallyneeds to be recognized that
there's not just one person thatis affected by violence.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it was and I'm sure youcan relate to this too, but it's
especially impactful when yougrow up in a small town.
Yes.
Like you were saying earlier,everybody knows everybody.
Right.
Or somebody knows of somebody,and um just the sheer ripple
effect um seemed so much greateralmost in like a smaller town
(12:48):
because you you make connectionswith like such a large majority
of it.
Whereas, you know, you're notjust like a fish in like the
sea, you're more of like a fishin a pond, so to speak.
Or you run into the other fishin the pond, but maybe you miss
them in the sea.
So um, yeah, it was you nailedit, it's so much greater than
(13:12):
just me or just my family.
It's like impacting thecommunity.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
And do you want to go into a little bit about what
happens?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Yeah.
Um, again, this is what Iremembered today.
I don't I don't practice any ofthis.
I don't like look back atnewspapers and um, you know, I
don't Google my name.
All that.
Um, but yeah, so I think alittle context is important here
(13:44):
in that I mentioned earlier mybiological parents, so my mom
and my dad got divorced when Iwas young.
And I had always had a good goodrelationship with my dad, and he
was very much part of our lives.
He we saw him every otherweekend.
He was like at our sportingevents, like he definitely loved
us.
I don't want to say off fromafar, but there was just some
(14:05):
distance from where he lived andwhere we lived for like a period
of time.
But there was always a you know,they co-parented really well and
all of that.
So my dad got remarried, but mymom also got remarried.
Um, so I think I was eight umwhen they got remarried.
Um, she got married to who wasmy stepfather, Brent.
(14:26):
And um, you know, eight is stilllike very much kid age.
And so he was like a he lived inour house.
Like he in some ways was likearound when we were being
raised, and um, you know, cameto our sport events here and
there.
Like he was a part, he was likea big part of our lives.
Um, and he never had kids of hisown.
(14:51):
So we were just me and mybrother were kind of like quote
unquote his kids um when we weregrowing up at such like a young
age.
So um the thing about Brent wasum he there was so much that I
didn't like really realize abouthim when I was a child that I
(15:11):
understand now as an adult.
Um, one of those things was Ididn't recognize a temper that
he had.
Um, I know my brother hadwitnessed or heard him say a
couple of things that kind ofalluded to him having a short
fuse, but he was never violenttowards us.
I had not I never saw him beviolent towards my mother.
(15:33):
What I did see from him was hewas very aloof.
Um, so we had like a shed, likein our like as part of our
property, and he had kind ofsort of like a man cave of sorts
in the shed.
And um, you know, he spent a lotof time back there and up
playing his guitar or throwingdarts or whatever.
And one thing that I I just likenever thought much of it, but as
(15:57):
an adult, I know that he was inthe shed drinking, um, and just
like away from us.
So what I realize now is he wasjust a source of like
high-functioning alcoholic.
Um, where, you know, one memoryI have very vividly um is we
(16:19):
were camping with my mom, mystepdad.
It was me, my mom, my stepdad,my brother.
And um he opened a beer at 10o'clock in the morning.
And my mom like got emotional.
Like, one thing about my mom isshe I can truly count on like
one hand how many times I've sawI saw her cry.
(16:40):
Um, she was just not she reallykind of like kept it together,
especially in front of us kids.
Um and it was me and her in thecamp, or and she's like crying,
and I'm like trying tounderstand like what why are you
crying?
There was like an exchange, andthen he left, and so it was just
us um at the campsite, and Idon't remember specifically what
(17:03):
she said, but it was almost likein that moment I realized like
what was wrong.
Because there's always like thisunderlying issue, it seemed, um,
but I never could quite put myfinger on it, and maybe it's
because I was a teen, like avery young teenager, or maybe I
just wasn't paying attention ordidn't know what I was looking
(17:24):
for.
Um, but it was kind of in thatmoment that I felt something
bigger was going on here.
So um to make that a long storyshort, they ended up, my mom
ended up filing for divorce umafter they were married for
seven or eight years.
So a long time they weretogether.
And I remember him moving out ofour house and not being a
(17:48):
hundred percent sure why, otherthan they just they weren't
happy together anymore and theywere just like going their
separate ways.
Like that's what I understoodabout it.
Um, so then fast forward, Iwould say roughly a month or
two, and um, it was July 22nd,2009.
Um, my brother was off at amotocross race with my uncle and
(18:12):
my cousins.
And so it's just me and mom athome, and we were doing our
usual wind-down routine atnight, where um I was tucked
into bed, promised uh breakfastin bed for my birthday the next
day, um, which I always lookedforward to.
Um and then, you know, it waskind of like lights out.
(18:34):
Mom was, you know, gettingherself ready for bed, and I was
almost asleep.
It was late, so like maybe10-ish o'clock at night.
I was almost asleep, whatevertime it was.
And I heard a really loud knockon the door, which I always
found, I found in that moment tobe like really odd because we
grew up so far out in thecountry that we never locked our
(18:57):
door for one.
Like I never had a house keygrowing up.
We were just like lived in thesafe community where my
neighbors were my grandparentsand my aunt and uncle, and
whoever was coming would justwalk through the front door.
Um, so I thought that was likevery odd um that someone was
like knocking really loud on thedoor.
So I was like, oh, mom must havelike locked the door.
You know, I didn't think much ofit, kind of rolled over.
(19:20):
And I heard her walk past myroom because we had our bedrooms
upstairs, and then there was themain level.
Heard her walk past my room, godownstairs to, you know, like
see who was there.
And then I heard her scream andthe door hit the wall.
And so I was immediately awake.
(19:40):
I jumped up out of bed, I shutmy door and locked it, and then
I called 911 right away and Ididn't even know what was going
on.
I just know that when you hearsomeone scream like that, you
are a hundred percent sure thatsomething is wrong.
You're just not sure what.
Um, and so I'm talking to the911 operator, and I'm also
(20:05):
listening to see if I can figureout why it why is my mom
screaming.
Um I hear like a man's voice,and it's more of like it's like
they're having a like a heateddiscussion, like they're yelling
at each other.
Um, and you know, I'm like likeI'm trying to like figure out
(20:27):
who that is, and then I hear mymom say, like, I tried for eight
years, and then I was like,okay, and then I heard the man's
voice now like okay, it's Brent.
Like I realize like who it isnow, and I couldn't figure out
why my mom was so scared.
Like, I knew she was scared, Icould hear it in her voice
without even like seeing her.
(20:49):
But when I realized who it was,it was almost like this moment
of like, do I open the door?
Because I know who Brent is.
Um, it's not like there's anintruder in our house, and I
have like no idea who it is.
I don't.
Um, I don't know if it was likeflight, fight freeze like moment
for me, but I was like laserfocused on getting the cops
there like as quickly aspossible.
(21:11):
Um, and so it's felt like aneternity um for them to get
there.
But while they were having theirargument, I'm like telling them,
like, oh, like here's like whatI can hear and like what's going
on.
And then I heard like thisreally loud bang, and it's like
a sound that I've never heard,like from the inside of my
(21:33):
house.
So I thought like a cupboarddoor had slammed shut or like
the the stool from the kitchentable had like fallen on the
floor or something like that.
And then I heard it again, andthen I was like, I realized
like, oh, that was a gun.
Like there's a gun in our house.
Like my my stepfather has a gun.
(21:54):
And so I'm like telling thepolice, like, please hurry.
You know, we live in the middleof nowhere, like they like the
you know, this stuff took timeback then, and um I can still
hear them yelling, despite likethese two gunshots.
The second one actually went upthe stairs, like kind of like
(22:17):
past my bedroom.
I could hear it.
And um, you know, there wasthere was some more arguing, I
heard some glass breaking, andthen there was a third gunshot,
and then I heard a thump, andthen I heard nothing.
Like it was silent.
(22:38):
And then I saw my I didn't seehim get in his truck, but I saw
him like drive away from ourhouse, and it still is like so
quiet.
And so I opened my bedroom door,and I look down the stairs,
which our dining room was right,like you could see it like
looking down the stairs is whereour dining room was, and my mom
(23:01):
was like laying face down on thefloor, and I'm yelling.
I said, Mom, and she didn'tanswer me.
And so I start walking down thestairs to get closer to her, and
I feel wood, like wood chips onmy feet from like where the
bullet had like hit the stairs,and the smell like of gunpowder
(23:22):
was just like so strong in thehouse.
And I yelled again, I said, Mom,and she didn't move, she didn't
answer me, and it was I couldlike see this shadow next to
her, and then it took like amoment, and I realized like that
shadow is actually blood, andshe wasn't responsive, and so I
(23:44):
get scared, and I basically likebegging these people like the
first responders, please like,please get here like as soon as
you can.
And I go back in my room andwait, and it's not long after
that that they show up, and atthat moment it was just like it
was such like a surrealout-of-body experience.
(24:07):
I couldn't even comprehend whatjust happened or what was
happening.
And um I just remember like apolice officer coming upstairs
to like see if I was okay andthey're working on her
downstairs.
So now they have me upstairs andher downstairs, and like no
one's like really goinganywhere.
Um, at that point, I think theywere just they got a sheet and
(24:29):
they're like, you know, likeholding it up so they could like
protect me from like seeing themlike work on her and like get
her to the hospital like asquickly as possible.
So that's all happening.
And then, you know, they likesend her off in the ambulance.
And I remember I had to use myhouse phone, if you can believe
(24:51):
that, um, to call my grandma,who was my neighbor, so my mom's
mom.
And I had to tell her what justhappened.
And so she comes down.
I'm still not able to leave thehouse, she can't come in.
Like, there's just it's sochaotic, and everybody's kind of
like just doing their best atthis point.
Um, finally, they're able tokind of escort me out of the
(25:14):
house.
Um, and I just remember they putoxygen over my face, and I
didn't really understand why,but I was like struggling, like
I was struggling to breathebecause I it's just like I had
no control over what my body,like how my body was responding
to everything I just like heardand saw.
(25:34):
So we um follow, we go straightto the hospital.
Meanwhile, my stepfather isstill just like driving around
um in his truck.
Police are looking for him allthat.
Um, he ends up running into likea parked car, and he was like
double or triple the bloodalcohol limit.
(25:56):
Um, so he is in custody, youknow, like that part is honestly
that was secondary.
All we were worried about waslike, is our mom okay?
And um so we go to the hospital,the same one where she worked,
brought life into the worldevery day, every week.
And we just sat um in theemergency waiting room.
(26:19):
And it was like this big groupof our family, uh, like
everybody.
Um, even my dad was like drivingin the car on his way from like
way out of town, just like bewith us.
And we sat there for like aneternity.
It felt like I actually, Ingridhave no idea how long we're in
that waiting room.
(26:39):
I just felt like forever.
Um, and then just like a sceneout of the movies, the doctor
comes out of the double doors ofthe ER and says, like, I'm so
sorry, like we did everything wecould do.
And I remember like watchingeveryone around me like
understandably, like, break downand cry.
(27:01):
And I couldn't.
It was almost like I wasfrustrated that I couldn't.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
But I was so I was so known what I just saw.
Like the gravity of it.
It had it hit me.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
And I was almost like, I should be crying right
now.
It's like I can't.
So we couldn't go home becauseour home was a crime scene.
It was the only house we everlived in.
Um that's where we grew up, andso we ended up actually like
staying at the hospital.
(27:44):
Um they got us a room, and meand my brother crammed together
in one of those tiny hospitalbeds and just like laid next to
each other.
And I just remember like we werelooking at the clock.
I don't know if it was midnightor two in the morning, but he
just like kind of nudged me andsaid, like, happy birthday dad.
(28:08):
And it was like so sincere.
Um and then after after that, itwas like it was so intense, it
was like the most massivewhirlwind like ever.
And I just remember being likewondering, like, where are we
gonna live?
(28:29):
Um because like we can't gohome.
And um honestly, like evenliving with my grandma was
probably not a good idea for meat the time because she was
right next to our house.
Like for me, it was like almostlike being as far away from that
as possible was kind of likeprobably what was needed at the
(28:50):
time.
I don't remember making a lot ofthese decisions because I
probably didn't.
I was a teenager, uh, freshlylike 15.
So our family and friends justlike really stepped up and um
like did whatever they needed todo to protect us.
So um, my dad's mom also livesin Toma.
Um, so we ended up staying withher um for like a period of time
(29:13):
so we could like figure out ourliving situation.
My dad had to move from severalhours away back to Toma and then
like figure out like what are wegonna do?
How are we gonna do this?
And um I'm just so I was like sothankful for him.
Um because he had like thiswhole other family like this
part of his family um that wasalso being like impacted by this
(29:37):
because now his two of his kidslike don't have a mom.
So like now what do I do when Ihave these other two kids and
it's just it was like veryintense.
And so the next day we're at mydad's mom's house and my grandma
Sue's, and um I had I called mygodmother, who is my mom's best
(29:58):
friend, Cindy, and And um who bythe way is still like a huge
part of my life.
Um and I'm like so thankful forher.
But I remember calling her andlike for the first time, like
saying out loud like whathappened, like telling her what
I just told you, and I finallycould cry.
(30:20):
It was like the those like hottears that like you can like
feel in your bones almost.
And it was like in that moment,that's how long it took for me
to like feel the emotion that Ilike needed to feel like a
release because it can became soreal.
Like when I had to tell someonewhat happened, um, it was it
(30:43):
didn't feel like this bad dreamanymore.
It was like, oh no, like this isreal life, she's actually gone.
And like I actually just sawthat.
Um the funeral was difficultbecause my mom was only 37.
So um usually at 37 you don'thave arrangements like put
(31:04):
together.
So we kind of did our best umand did like what we thought
that she would want.
And um, I remember like even herwake, like looking at her in the
casket and like just didn't looklike her.
I don't know that anyone everreally looks like themselves
after they pass, but that wasalso like very um difficult for
(31:30):
me to see her like so still andjust like not her color, and um,
she just looked so not herself.
Um so it's almost like in thatway I felt like I don't even
know if I felt like I really gotto say goodbye to her because it
didn't even like look like her.
(31:50):
Um, but I remember at her wake,there was like, I'm not joking,
like hours of of people, likelines of people like showing up
for her.
And that's where like I reallyunderstood her impact in the
community is like the sheervolume of people that like came
to say their goodbyes to her wasso it was like shocking, but
(32:16):
also like so special.
Um, because I was like, whoa,I'm not the only one who thought
like she was so special.
Um you know, you try to likerealize your own bias, but like
when I when I could see thesepeople like showing up for her,
I was like, oh my gosh, likethis is like so much bigger than
like I thought, like so muchbigger than like just our little
(32:39):
family.
And um we had her funeral, andum, you know, she was buried
like two miles from where I grewup, and um like that's where
she, you know, like was laid torest.
And so the real aftermath waslike almost when the dust
(33:01):
settled.
Um it's like when the dustsettled as far as like her her
funeral was over, like we weretrying, we were navigating like
basically like what happensnext.
You know, this happened at theend of July, so school was
coming at the beginning ofSeptember.
Like, what's that gonna looklike?
And there was just like so manyunknowns.
(33:21):
Is my dad moving here?
Like, what's going on?
Um, but like as an individual,the more time went on in like
those early days and months, themore it kept setting in on like
the damage that it did to me.
Um, like as someone who likewitnessed their mother like
(33:45):
getting murdered, because that'swhat it was.
And so I struggled, like I'venever struggled before, and like
my mom, I'm not a superemotional person, um, especially
when I was younger.
I've certainly softened up sinceI've had a daughter, but um, I
just never I never was like areally emotional person.
(34:08):
It's like because I couldn'trelease my emotions through
tears, I like struggled in likemore dark ways.
Um I could not, I would juststare at my bedroom door, and it
wasn't even my bedroom, it was abedroom at my grandma's house.
I would just stare at it withlike the most irrational
thoughts, just thinking like Ihad myself convinced that my
(34:30):
stepdad was gonna like break outof jail and he was gonna come
after me.
And I just couldn't, it was soirrational, and I knew that, but
it's like I I couldn't shake it,like I couldn't control that.
Um, and I would just stare.
And my grandma would make coffeeevery morning, like as people
do.
And for some reason, the smellof her coffee smelled like
(34:53):
gunpowder to me, and it wouldmake me so nauseous, um, so
nauseous.
Um it's you know, like it wasthe all these little things that
were happening where it waslike, oh, I can't just like get
over this.
Like this actually has a muchmore intense impact than a
(35:17):
person could ever comprehend it,like unless it happens to them.
Um, which I found as a teenagerto be very frustrating in a lot
of ways because one, I couldn'tproperly articulate my emotions,
and two, I could see otherpeople coping and moving
forward, not moving on withtheir lives, but moving forward
with their lives.
(35:38):
And I felt like very stuck.
Where it's like my brain wasjust on a loop of like just
constantly like everything I hadseen, smelt, like it was so
fresh that you know, whensomeone passes, you start moving
forward with your life, like asmuch as you can, but I couldn't.
Um and I I held it in in like somany ways.
(36:04):
At one point, I resorted toself-harm.
I would take the end off a bobbypin and I would scratch my face
because it made not because Iwanted to feel pain, but because
it made it feel like um, it mademe feel seen and like not
forgotten about.
Where it was like I had allthese people like worried about
(36:26):
me and like protecting me andloving me, but almost in a way
angry, where they were likeafraid because they didn't know
what to do.
Like this was such unchartedterritory for everyone involved,
including myself, where it waslike it's almost like I was like
desperate to be seen for who Iwas, like as a as a person
versus like what I had just seenwitnessed.
(36:49):
And I think that was verycomplicated for people because
it was, you know, I was ateenager and there was like this
love, like protecting me was thepriority, like as any parent or
loved one would.
But what I needed was like, no,I need you to understand, like
this is still so I haven't beenable to move forward at all.
Not even like 1%.
(37:10):
And it made me like deeply hurtand angry.
Just feel like I felt like somuch of my youth, my joy, my
like blissful ignorance, as theycall it when you're young, had
been like stolen from me.
And I was dealing with somethingso heavy that I really didn't
(37:31):
know how to deal with it.
Um, and I took it out in allthese unhealthy ways to try to
like get people to understandlike how much this was still
really impacting me.
Um it took a while, but I didgo, I did start therapy and I
went regularly.
Um I got on some medication foranxiety and depression.
(37:54):
Um, and I was just everyone was,we were all just figuring out as
we went.
And in the meantime, it's like,how am I, how is my brother, how
is my family supposed to justlike go back to nor like what's
normal?
Like I'll just go to school in amonth and just try to act like
(38:17):
that didn't just happen.
It was so there was no winningin this situation, and there was
no right way to go about it.
Um, and so we just did our best,like most people do.
And um going back to school wasintense because it was a similar
thing where it's like all of asudden, instead of Devin, I was
(38:37):
Teresa's daughter, and I becamewhat happened to me instead of
like who I was.
Um, and that was like a veryhard shift because I again like
as understandable as it was, itwas like I was craving so badly
(38:58):
to just be treated normally, um,by my friends, my teachers, my
family.
Um, obviously that's a very hardthing to do on their end because
they nothing about what ithappened to me is normal.
Um, and so it was just a reallytough position to be in.
And I struggled.
(39:20):
Um, that was my sophomore yearof high school.
And I a whole year I struggledwith panic attacks, anxiety,
like deep depression, and I wasjust trying to like get through
the day.
Um I was just trying to getthrough the day, and I was I was
becoming so impatient withmyself because I was like,
(39:41):
again, desperate for like asense of normalcy.
And it's like I couldn't like Icouldn't get it fast enough.
Um it it took so much longerthan I ever thought, and a lot
of work on my end um to kind ofheal, like start the healing
(40:03):
process, um, and like acceptingthe gravity and like the
permanency behind what happened.
Like there was no undoing it.
And I think that was the hardestpart was like there's nothing I
can do to bring her back.
There's nothing I can do to likeerase what I had just seen.
Um, and our whole world flippedupside down.
(40:24):
Mine did, my brothers did, my myfamilies.
We were all very close.
My family, we're just thecommunity, everything was just
uh like catastrophic.
Sounds dramatic, but that's whatit felt like.
Um so there was um huge shiftsin what was normal.
I had to like reinvent what wasnormal for me.
(40:48):
I had to actively find ways tocope more like in a more healthy
sense.
Um so one of those ways where Iwas just like, I turn my coping
is like action.
So like I'm a doer, I like goget her.
Like, how can I make the worldbetter?
(41:09):
And I will say everything thathappened is awful, and I would
do anything to like get herback.
At the same time, I feel this umalmost like this gratitude for
how I'm able to see life now andlike the world, where it's like
unfortunately, sometimes ittakes something so traumatic to
(41:33):
have such an appreciation foryour life, understanding how
fragile it is that you how muchof an impact you can make on
somebody else's life, and tobasically not waste it.
And so that's how I found my wayto cope.
And I just it was a constantgame of like, okay, what would
(41:54):
my mom do?
Or like what would she want usto do?
And like that's what that was myguiding light, because it felt
like one, she was still part ofmy life in some in some way, and
two, it was almost like I canmake this horrible thing that
happened to us productive inlike some way, and that's that's
(42:17):
how we started like movingforward as a family.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Devin, I am um, I usually can keep myself very
well composed with hearing thesestories, but this like you've
your story really got me, and umI mean I um all the feelings,
all the trauma you went throughso much trauma in just one
(42:41):
night.
Um I mean, just taking if youjust were to exert like just
take one piece of what you wentthrough that night, that's
enough trauma for one person.
But everything that youwitnessed, the fact that it was
your mom, the fact that you'refreaking 14 years old, um, and
to still have like thewherewithal to call 911 and
(43:05):
immediately step into action, umof course you didn't move on.
Um of course, and I don't thinkcatastrophic is too big of a
word.
I think that absolutely um whenyou are a teenager and your mom
is taken away from you in such abrutal fashion, catastrophe that
(43:26):
that's absolutely the umappropriate word.
Um I am uh I'm usually not at aloss for words either.
Like I can't I can usually talkabout anything.
But um first of all, thank youso much for sharing that because
that is a very difficult thingto share and and relive and um
(43:51):
including the parts of therapy.
I know it's difficult for somepeople to to discuss therapy and
the things that you were talkingabout, your somatic responses to
things, the smells and sightsand sounds and everything that
that is definitely somethingthat a lot of people bury and
don't address.
(44:12):
I'm also a doer.
Um after uh feeling that I wasokay after my um domestic
violence uh relationship, I wentinto therapy and I was like,
let's do this, let's get itdone.
I want it, I wanted to go in andget out and be and move on.
And unfortunately, that's nothow things work.
And for lack of something moreprofound to say, just all of it
(44:37):
sucks and none of it's fair.
I mean, the impact it had on youand your brother and your dad
and all of the individuals ofyour family and your dad's
family and the community, noneof it is fair.
I mean, it's not fair for likethe for the teachers to have to
try to figure out how to try tomake life normal for you.
It's not fair for your friendsto try to figure out how do I,
(45:00):
how am I supposed to be a friendand give her some normalcy, but
then not act like I'm forgettingabout her mom.
I mean, none of it is fair.
None of it is fair.
SPEAKER_01 (45:13):
Yeah.
Um, and like it almost felt likean impossible task for
everybody.
Yeah.
Like no one was set up forsuccess.
Um, and like, what's the bestway to go about this?
Um, yeah, so I mean, Iunderstand that so much better
now that I'm older and like Ihave more insight and like life
experience, but the impact stilllike lives with me.
(45:39):
The trauma still lives with me.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes a week something so benign
will trigger my brain, likeunintentionally, and I'm just
like staring at my mom on thedining room floor again.
It's been so long, and it'slike, when am I gonna shake
this?
And I will go through these likestints of like nightmares, like
(46:02):
night terror, like nightmares,where she's never in them,
ironically.
Um, but it's always me not beingable to move and like I'm
watching something reallyviolent happen to somebody I
know or love or care about.
Um, and it's it's like I don'tknow if there's enough time um
(46:27):
in like a lifetime for me tolike completely heal from those
things.
So it's just become for mepersonally, more how do I best
cope with this?
Because this is part of who I amnow, and I don't need to let it
control me, I don't need to letit like ruin my life.
Um it's just part of who I am,and like being able to accept
(46:51):
that has made it easier to cope,and it's almost like I took my
power back in some ways whereit's like, yeah, this happened,
but actually, like I get todecide what the rest of my life
looks like.
I get to decide, um, I thinkmore people need to hear that
(47:13):
and believe it.
Like it's one thing for someoneto tell you, like, you can do
anything, you'd be anything, butyou need to believe that um and
take action for no one butyourself, and knowing that
you've so much more power,bravery, compassion than like
(47:33):
you ever thought you could, andlike what a gift, like what a
gift um to like live a life morefulfilled with more kindness and
um like more compassion, andit's just uh yeah, it's as
(47:54):
twisted as it sounds that I feellucky in that way.
Um I have so much more life leftto live and I get to decide what
that looks like.
Um I mean, like part of that islike thanks to my mom, of
course, because she thought thatwas also like just her attitude
where it was like I can dowhatever I want and I will.
Um, and she did, and it was justso um admirable.
(48:18):
And uh again, like I just embodyas much as of her as I can.
SPEAKER_00 (48:24):
And from things I've been told about you and things
that I've read about you, youyou have been doing that.
You organized a walk for yourmom.
SPEAKER_01 (48:33):
So I will say I was certainly a helping hand, um,
but my godmother Cindy was ahuge, she was the captain of
that ship.
Like she drove it, she made surethat I was involved as much as I
wanted to be, um, and that mybrother had, you know, that we
(48:54):
were like almost acknowledgedand included.
Um, and I just found it to beone, very helpful for healing
again, um, because we were likedirectly impacting, like
positively impacting otherpeople's lives, like other
survivors of domestic violence.
Um, so we yes, we had an annualrun walk for a decade.
(49:19):
It kind of morphed into like,you know, different variations
of that.
But at the end of the day, for10 years straight, once a year,
we had this huge fundraiser inmy mom's honor and her memory,
where we would raise funds forour local um domestic violence
shelter and resource center.
Um, and that was also incrediblyhumbling in a lot of ways
(49:44):
because it made me realize likehow fortunate I am to have this
like absolute like unit ofsupport when it came to my
family and my friends and mycommunity.
Because not everyone is thatlucky.
There are so many victims ofdomestic violence who don't who
(50:07):
have been so isolated they don'thave anybody else.
And so they have this resourcecenter, they have this shelter,
and that's what they have, andso um I was I just felt every
year I was reminded like howfortunate I am to like have this
like other huge group of peoplebehind me.
(50:30):
Um and that not everybody is solucky, and so um being able to
bring a little bit more hope, alittle bit more resource to
other women and their familieswas really special.
Like really special.
So um, yeah, we did a lot happenin 10 years.
(50:54):
Um, graduated high school, wentto college, and kind of started
that moving forward process withmy life.
Um, but I still stayed veryconnected to the domestic
violence community, likesurvivor community.
Um, I volunteered at a shelterum in college where I would do
intakes for like new um, I wasguess you'd say survivors who
(51:19):
like needed to stay at ourshelter, getting them resources,
restocking, making sure theyhave what they need.
And um I did so much silently.
Um I still cared so deeply aboutthis, I guess if you wanted to
call it a cause, but honestly,it's an issue because it's
(51:42):
preventable, right?
And so it's such a deeply rootedissue that um it's gonna take
more than just me to like quoteunquote fix it.
Um, but I will say something Istruggled with before coming
here today was I know my friendsand my family, some of them will
(52:03):
listen to this, and it's like,oh gosh, like I don't I'm gonna
like expose them to like thesedetails and like this trauma.
And um for me what's moreimportant is if I don't, if I
don't talk about it, then whowill?
(52:24):
Like who's gonna talk about it?
And if these details and that mystory makes you uncomfortable, I
want people to think about that.
Think about it.
This should be talked aboutbecause it shouldn't be
happening at all.
And the more we bottle it up,and I used to be a professional
battle upper.
(52:45):
Um we bottle it up, the more itjust goes on quietly and makes
it seem like it's okay um forthese types of things to happen,
whether it's you're like theworst case scenario, like what
happened to my mom, or anythingin between.
Like none of it's okay.
And I I want to make that clear.
(53:05):
And so that's just where it'snot about my feelings anymore.
Like it's about protecting otherpeople because I want this to
happen.
This shouldn't happen to anybodyelse.
SPEAKER_00 (53:18):
You're absolutely right.
I think so many people, when itcomes to either those who have
witnessed domestic violence orhave experienced it, are afraid
to speak.
I mean, there's some legitimatefear because of a fear of
repercussions.
But then there's there's alsothe fear of what is everyone
else going to think and how isthis going to make everybody
(53:38):
feel?
And I don't care anymore.
It should make people feeluncomfortable.
It's not a comfortable situationin the fact that people are
living this day in and day out,and you know, just holding on
every day, just trying tosurvive.
It should feel uncomfortable tounderstand that people are doing
that, that there are children inthe homes that are witnessing
(54:00):
these things happen.
Um I uh I wanted to say, likethis whole episode has me so
emotional, like, and so manydifferent for so many different
reasons.
But um I I said and I wonder ifI ever crossed paths with your
mom.
I think we were not that farapart in age.
Uh how old would she be today?
SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
Today she would be I'm not estimate in her early
50s.
SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
Okay, yeah.
So I'm I mean, I'm 48, I'm classof 95.
So I feel like we may have, youknow, crossed paths at some
point.
And but uh I never knew her.
I can say I never knew herpersonally.
Um but the way you described herand everything that you have
done, this is a part that'sgetting me emotional.
(54:49):
Um you were embodying herspirit.
Everything that you describedabout her as far as this
beautiful person, everythingthat you have done is that.
I mean, I would just when yousaid you have never met another
person like her, you need totake a look in the mirror, to be
honest, because I mean, this theincredible work that you're
(55:11):
doing, despite the trauma thatyou went through, that you're
going through to help otherpeople, um, you know, to be part
of that walk as freaking a highschool kid, you know, um the
stuff that you went through andthe things that you have done,
the fact that you're raising adaughter, um, and you're keeping
your mom's memory alive, likeyou coming on this podcast, um,
(55:33):
all of this is so incrediblystrong and so incredibly
important.
And just even telling the worststory of your life, you st you
still emit this like light aboutyou that you pull people in.
And I want to thank you forthat.
And I want, I hope that yourealize what an incredible woman
(55:55):
you are.
SPEAKER_01 (55:56):
Appreciate that.
It's like the best complimentever.
It really is.
Um, yeah, I appreciate that alot.
And I just hope that someoneelse feels like seen and heard
in that the thing about likedomestic violence, um, is it
just like it doesn't look acertain way.
(56:17):
Anyone on the street walking bywould not look would not guess
that about me.
And like that's part of mypoint, is because like people of
all like all types of people aredealing with this and they're
dealing with it like silently.
Um that's the that's like part ahuge part of the problem is like
they're dealing with itsilently.
(56:39):
So I'm just like flattered thatI can be at least one more voice
that's not so silent, and thathopefully, if nothing else, it
empowers like another woman toknow that like she's just just
so much braver and stronger thanshe like gives herself credit
(57:00):
for.
I just want more I want morewomen to like not only hear that
but believe it.
SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
Yeah.
Um before we close it youth, isthere anything that you want
else you wanted to share that wedidn't touch on?
SPEAKER_01 (57:15):
I mean that I'm like I said earlier, like I could
talk about her, I could talkabout the impact of like of this
all for forever.
Like it's because it really hasnever like left um my life.
Um I will say that a wound haslike opened for me that I didn't
(57:37):
even know I was gonna have.
You know, my mom has been gonefor like so many of my life
events, whereas like graduatinghigh school, graduating college,
um getting married, like hugelife events.
And then, you know, last year,last September, I had my
daughter.
And becoming a mother myself hasalmost like picked the scab that
(58:02):
I didn't even know I had.
And it's like so raw.
Like this is easily the hardestthing I've done without her.
Um, it's so difficult to be amom without your mom.
Um, especially when you're likelearning how to do it.
So um I really like leaned on mycircle, my community.
(58:24):
And it just made me like reallyreflect on how many other women
who have kids who are in thissituation that also feel like
alone in a lot of ways.
And I just want you to hear thatyou're not.
Um there's so many people whocare and are like willing to
help.
You just have to be brave enoughto ask, um, which is something
(58:44):
that I'm working on myself.
SPEAKER_00 (58:47):
Same.
SPEAKER_01 (58:48):
Yeah.
Uh yeah, not super good at that.
Um, but I'm working on it, and Ijust want to like lead by
example, honestly.
And like if you're listening tothis and you feel like you're
doing it all alone and likeyou're just protecting your
kids, like you don't have to doit alone.
That's the thing, is likethere's no real reward like for
doing it alone, um, other thanit's just really hard.
(59:11):
So um lean on your people andfind your people to lean on,
reach out and ask.
Um, yeah, you deserve the help.
Um, and you're no less of amother for asking for it.
Um, so that's one other thingthat I really wanted to share
(59:32):
because I know how many otherwomen who are maybe pr too proud
or too scared um to ask forhelp.
And if anything, I think itmakes you a stronger person for
knowing that you actually notonly don't have to do it all,
but you shouldn't.
(59:52):
Because you can doesn't mean youshould.
Um, so just lean on your people,lean on your community.
Um Yeah, you you're alreadyyou're already doing a great
job.
That's another thing I needother moms to hear is especially
moms who are in unhealthyrelationships or violent
(01:00:14):
situations, like you are doingan amazing job.
You're an amazing mother.
Um so don't be afraid to likeask for help.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:25):
I actually tell my daughter she's very independent,
she's young.
Um, and I always tell her Iappreciate her independence, but
I say, you know, the strongestpeople ask for help.
And I had told my like I stillgo to therapy, but I told my
therapist this, and she said,Can you say that out loud one
more time for yourself to hear?
(01:00:46):
Because it is a very difficultthing to do.
I am a definitely uhdo-it-yourselfer person, my you
know, and um but yeah, those arereally, really important things
for people to hear, you know,domestic violence situation or
not, mom's motherhood isdifficult.
Yes.
I think there's an expectationthat you're supposed to have
(01:01:07):
this automatic gut feeling ofknowing what to do and like this
motherly yeah, this motherlyinstinct.
I was I remember when I firsthad my child, I was like, where
is that?
And how come I didn't get it?
Um But you bring so many goodpoints, so many like definite
(01:01:27):
like take-home messages, but uhis there one specific strength
or message that you would wantto leave with listeners today?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:38):
I would say more than anything, just don't give
up on yourself.
And you are so worthy of ahealthy and safe life, and one
where you find your own joy andfulfillment.
So while it might feel likeother people might give up on
you, just don't ever give up onyourself and keep trying, keep
(01:02:00):
moving going forward, keeppushing.
Um, you are just so strongerthan you think you are.
unknown (01:02:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:10):
And then just before we say goodbye, and you want to
say your mom's name just soeverybody can Teresa.
Teresa.
Okay, thank you so much, Devin.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:20):
Thank you, Ingrid.
Take care.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:21):
You too.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:22):
Bye-bye.
unknown (01:02:23):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:26):
Thank you again for joining me today, Devin, and
thank you, warriors, forlistening.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong, andwherever you are in your
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
(01:02:46):
Find more information, registeras a guest, or leave a review by
going to the website one andthreepodcast.com.
That's the number one the numberthree podcast.com.
Follow one in three onInstagram, Facebook, and Twitter
at one and three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate review and subscribe.
(01:03:07):
One and three is a.5 Pinoyproduction.
Music written and performed byTim Crow.
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Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.