November 5, 2025 • 66 mins
Some stories don’t just deserve to be heard—they demand change. In this powerful episode of 1 in 3 Podcast, Morgan Scafe joins host Ingrid Dutton to share her harrowing story of child sexual abuse that began at age eight and continued until fifteen. She reveals how a courtroom turned her truth into a test—forcing her to relive trauma while sitting just feet from her abuser.
Together, we examine how statutes of limitations erased most of her abuse from trial and why Morgan wrote Carpenter Road: The Inadmissible Years—a prequel that exposes the grooming process and violent control tactics that adults and schools overlooked. This conversation dives deep into generational trauma, alcohol misuse, and the many missed red flags—plummeting grades, chronic absences, unexplained bruises, and emotional outbursts—that should have triggered mandated reporting.
Morgan offers a firsthand look at what trauma-informed justice should be: options for remote testimony, jury education on memory and stress, and legal teams trained to avoid re-victimization. The throughline is clear—prevention. Teaching “good touch, bad touch” isn’t enough. Children need age-appropriate education on grooming, including how abusers use gifts, secrets, isolation, and trust to gain control.
We also explore practical steps for parents, teachers, and communities to recognize early warning signs and make intervention the norm—not the exception. Morgan’s story is both a warning and a guidepost for how we can do better.
This episode closes with a message every survivor needs to hear: shame must change sides. Healing is possible. Therapy helps. And your voice isn’t just valid—it’s vital.
💜 If this conversation moved you:
Subscribe to 1 in 3 Podcast, share it with someone who cares about child safety and abuse prevention, and leave a thoughtful review to help others find it. Your support amplifies survivor voices and fuels change toward trauma-informed justice.
Morgan’s Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/morgan-scafe-1/
https://www.facebook.com/carpenterroadscafe
https://www.amazon.com/CARPENTER-ROAD-SENTENCED-MORGAN-SCAFE/dp/B0BW2LXP2N/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, Ingrid.
If there's one thing we'velearned over the years, it's
this.
Never underestimate theresilience of a survivor.
Today's guest embodies thatresilience.
She not only survived years ofabuse that began at the young
age of eight, but also faced herabuser in court, enduring the
(00:47):
pain of being re-victimized,before bravely sharing her story
with the world in her memoir,Carpenter Road, Sentenced to
Silence.
She didn't stop there either.
Her prequel, Carpenter Road, TheInadmissible Years, was recently
released as well.
Her mission is clear andpowerful to ensure victims,
(01:10):
specifically children, are seen,heard, protected, and empowered
to prevent abuse before ithappens.
It's my honor to introduce youto Morgan.
Hi, Morgan.
Thank you for joining me.
Hi, thank you for having me.
Um, so before we get into ourconversation, could you give a
(01:33):
bit of a background just so wecan get to know you a little
bit?
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Um I let's see, my background inum my professional life has been
caregiving for the elderly,especially with dementia and
Alzheimer's.
And I worked in that field for avery long time and did private
caregiving for a long time.
(01:58):
And then unfortunately, myhealth went south due to the
abuse, and I haven't been ableto work since then.
Um, I'm still undergoing a lotof procedures and so forth.
And but all that time I wasloving to write.
I was writing my story, I wasmainly doing it for myself, but
(02:21):
then I thought, you know, maybethis could help others, maybe
this could help survivors, um,especially when I added in the
trial.
I thought, wow, this couldreally be beneficial for people
to see what it's like to gothrough a trial.
And I just kept foraging aheadwith my memoir and decided to
actually publish it.
(02:42):
And it that has gone very well.
Um, I live in the Midwest withall of my furry friends and
animals and family, and um justkind of lead a quiet life and
have a ball.
And I graduated from WesternMichigan University back in 2005
with a master's in gerontology,which is significant because I
(03:04):
wasn't able to read until I wasin my mid-20s, beyond a fourth
grade level, because once myabuse started, my education
stopped.
And so that was quite anaccomplishment for myself.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
And your abuse is uh you detail it in your book that
you were referring to isCarpenter Road uh Sentence to
Silence.
Right.
And that and that chronicles theabuse, but not the beginning of
the abuse, correct?
Starting at the end.
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Yes, correct.
That is, and I did thatintentionally.
Um, I started Carpenter RoadSentence to Silence at the age
of 14 when I'm entering highschool.
And I did that because somebodyasked me, what was the very
first time you tried to wave thewhite flag to get help to get
(03:55):
out of the situation?
Because until then, uh I wasabsolutely terrified to even
consider telling anyoneanything.
And so I left a note under myteacher's door and I did not
sign it.
And I wrote it anonymously andsent her that I needed help.
(04:16):
And uh that is when that is,excuse me, that is where the
book starts, is basically myleaving that note under the
door, and then it kind offollows me through high school
and still trying to get out ofthe situation.
And then ultimately I reportedthe abuse and a trial ensued.
(04:38):
And so Carpenter Road, Sentenceof Silence, goes back and forth
between my time of dealing witheverything and the court
transcripts.
So you actually get to read theentire uh trial throughout the
book.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
And from what I understand, I did read the book,
is that you didn't even go intofull detail of the level of
abuse that you suffered.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
That is yes, that is correct.
Because uh mainly because Iwanted to follow what happened
with the trial and plus the timeframe of the book at the very
beginning.
I'm still um enmeshed in theabuse, but for like another
eight months, and then it's allabout me trying to um get out
(05:31):
get my feet under me and try tohave some sense of life and try
to deal with what happened tome, and then and then ultimately
trying to help the children thatwere still left behind in that
house get out from under it.
And so when I started it at umthe age of 14, I was almost out
of the abuse.
(05:52):
So I left out so much, and theother reason I did that was
because the trial itself, due tostatute of limitations, would
only permit me to talk aboutabuse that happened from mid-age
12 until it ended.
I wasn't able to even talk aboutor discuss the abuse prior to
(06:16):
that at the trial.
And I also wasn't allowed tospeak about what he did to other
family members in the housebecause they were so reluctant
to speak up and tell or testifyor even admit what had happened,
they were silent, and so nothingcould come into the trial except
(06:37):
for you know certain instancesafter the age of 12, either
physical or sexual.
And so I left out 80% of whathappened in the house out of the
first book, and then I had a lotof people ask me, why would you
go back over there?
That wasn't your house, itwasn't it wasn't my family, I
(06:59):
wasn't related.
Why would you go back overthere?
And I was a little stunned bythe question, but yet it was
valid because why would a childintentionally go over to their
friend's house knowing what wasgoing to happen?
And I thought, we have to bemore educated in trauma and in
(07:21):
the grooming process and whathappens to children when they
get caught up in thesesituations.
And so I instead of you knowexplaining that or explaining
myself to others, I decided towrite a prequel and I started it
at the beginning of the abuse,and it then ultimately meets up
with Carpenter O'Set intoSilence.
(07:42):
And so I devolves absolutelyeverything that happened to me,
and it it is quite thebombshell, and and both are
very, very important andcritical to read because the
first one I think is reallyhelpful for survivors to read,
because you're you're on thisjourney of emotional battling,
(08:05):
trying to overcome what you wentthrough and survive that.
And then this next one is moreslanted towards anyone working
with children, because youactually see and feel as I write
this from a child's perspective,what it was like to go through
(08:26):
such a traumatic experience forthat many years and what that
what that did to me emotionally,physically, spiritually, um,
sexually, everything.
And so um the two together, Ithink, are a really good
sounding board for people tounderstand what trauma does to
children.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Well, and I I like how you wrote Carpenter Road,
how it would go from, I mean,not present day today, but
present day where you were inthe in the courtroom and then
flashing back to what was goingon a few years prior to that.
It's honestly reallyheartbreaking to understand one,
(09:07):
that a child was being abused,but two, that you started it at
14 and that's much later, that'syears after the abuse even
began.
And there are a lot of factorsthat play into almost this like
perfect storm for you to be thevictim.
(09:27):
And uh one of those things, am Iwrong?
It's like a generational trauma.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yes.
Yeah.
In my in the second uh book, theprequel, I talk about my family
a little bit more because somany people were like, How did
your parents not see this?
How did they not understand whatwas happening?
How did teachers miss this?
But in my instance, um my motherwas abused by her father.
(09:55):
He was drafted into World War IIunexpectedly.
He was thinking he was headedoff to Western Michigan
University with a basketballscholarship.
And the next thing he is draggedonto a plane going to Okinawa at
18 and having no clue what'sgoing on, and came home four
(10:16):
years later so destroyed byWorld War II and not having met
my mom until then, because mygrandma was pregnant when he
left, he didn't bond with herand he treated her horribly.
Um, he was also dealing with histrauma by drinking and
(10:38):
tormenting my mom, and he reallysignaled her out because um I I
think he just didn't bond withher, and so then he ultimately
started sexually abusing her.
And at 18, my mom left the houseand met my dad, and then they
(10:59):
got married, but she did notdeal with her trauma, she did
not ever seek help or anything.
She drank, and so, like yousaid, the perfect storm.
You know, I've got a mother whois drinking way too much, she's
drinking outside of the house,she's never home.
My father's working endlessly,and here I am just kind of
(11:23):
floating along by myself and youknow, experiencing some neglect
and some abuse at home.
And then I meet a family who hasa mom who never leaves the home,
but that was for a differentreason.
You know, six kids, food on thetable, dinner every night.
(11:45):
It wasn't very much, but it wasmore than what I was gonna find
at my house.
And so I just boom got caughtup.
But, you know, you kind of linkit back to my mom's drinking and
why that happened and um why herfather was abusive coming off of
a war like that.
It just, yeah, it was just likea snowball going downhill and a
(12:08):
perfect storm for uh me beingset up into that situation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Well, and then it would be almost understandable
if you continued that yourself,if you just continued into that
cycle because you've been sotraumatized for years, and you
still uh if you hadn't taken thesteps maybe to um legally seek
action, you could havepotentially continued in this
(12:34):
snowball effect, but you you didhave a few advocates for you
finally show up in high school.
And those helped.
I always love thinking of peoplewho are on this path, and it
just takes one person to bumpthem and change the entire
trajectory of their lives andhopefully in a better way.
(12:56):
And I feel like it came late foryou.
I think there were probablyquite a few opportunities that
could have come up prior to youleaving a note under your
teacher's door at the age of 14.
And and with I think those thoseadults who finally did advocate
for you and look out for you,and then along with your own
(13:17):
personal strive to survive,you've you already survived the
the physical trauma, but now tosurvive the psychological trauma
and recover from that, that's ahuge undertaking.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Yes, it is.
I mean, I advocate for us, everysurvivor, to take that journey
because ultimately it leads usback to being as whole as we
possibly can.
You know, it'll interrupt thatcycle of generational trauma.
Um, but we owe it to ourselvesto heal and not be silenced.
And so I really advocate fortaking the journey, even though
(13:53):
it is grueling and painful andvery difficult to recover from,
because that type of abuse, youknow, the sexual abuse of a
child is just destroys, destroysyou.
And it's very hard to come backfrom.
But your alternative is muchworse.
So I'm a big proponent of getinto therapy, get into
(14:17):
counseling, whatever that lookslike for you, but do the work so
you can heal that, if not youknow, for yourself, but for the
rest of your family.
Because, you know, it peoplesometimes um have that thinking
that, well, if she's abused,she's gonna abuse, you know, the
next person down the line.
(14:38):
That's not always the case inthe same way, but you can spread
your toxicity from your traumain other ways.
It could be at work, it could beat home, it could be wherever,
but somehow, some way, if youhaven't dealt with that trauma,
it's going to seep into yourlife and onto others in some
(14:58):
form or fashion.
And we, I mean, we've seen thatfor years and years.
I mean, we've watched it, youknow, unfold with um people that
we've known that have beenabused, whether it's in our own
family or in the community.
I mean, you you can see you cansee it happening when they you
can tell when someone hasn'tdealt with their trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
For sure.
And so Carpenter Road takes usthrough your journey of therapy
and dealing with your trauma andwhile still having the
legitimate fear of safety foryourself.
And it really showcases yourstrength because you eventually
(15:38):
don't stop there at just healingyourself.
You feel this obligation to lookinto legal action because you
did understand that there werestill younger children in the
home.
And it takes us then through thepsychological trauma then of the
re-victimization of the courtsystem.
So, do you want to talk a littlebit about the whole legal system
(16:02):
and that process and howdifficult that's this is a light
way to say it, difficult tomaneuver through.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Yes.
I hope, I hope, and pray thatit's different today than what I
experienced, but I haven'treally uh paid a huge amount of
attention to what what that'slike for survivors now.
And I know a lot of laws havechanged since my trial in '92.
So that some things haveimproved for victims and
(16:32):
survivors.
Um, but I would say that thejudicial system is still set up
to protect the perpetrator, notthe victim.
I mean, no matter what the crimeis, that is the case.
And so I wish we could kind oftake a look at that and say, you
know what, let's take care ofthe victim.
(16:54):
And these the people that aredoing the perpetrating, um,
maybe shouldn't have as quite asmany rights as we as we think,
because in my case, um justbeing put into the same
courtroom with him was extremelytraumatizing.
I could barely function, I couldbarely mentally operate.
(17:17):
I was expected to sit on a standless than 10 feet from him.
And then at one point, theyexpected me to draw the layout
of the house five feet from him.
My legs were shaking so bad Icould hardly stand up.
They, you know, no one took intoaccount how horrific it was for
me to be sitting in front of himdescribing all of these details
(17:41):
about what he did to me sexuallyin front of a courtroom of
people.
And, you know, I know they allowsmaller children to testify via
video, but I really think evenif you're an adult and you're,
you know, a survivor, you shouldbe able to do that too, because
that almost made me physically,physically sick and vomit every
(18:05):
day I was there, knowing what Iwas walking into.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Well, even your own uh legal representation, and I
know that she was trying to helpyou win your case, and and you
know, but even even she wouldsometimes she didn't understand
actually some of theinteractions that you had with
her.
It was um almost like alecturing for not doing what
(18:28):
you're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, it was shocking.
The first time she screamed atme, I I just my mind completely
shut down.
I was not expecting it, but Iunderstood it later.
Um, I was being very um evasiveand I was reluctant to talk.
Um, my parents at that time weresitting in the courtroom and she
was asking me questions about,you know, the neglect and
(18:53):
alcoholism in the house, and myparents are sitting there, and
I'm well, yeah, it wasn't, yeah,it was, yeah, that was kind of
hard, and that was it was itwasn't very good.
And I mean, she and it's likepulling teeth.
And then after that, she didn'tallow them in the courtroom.
But I was just being evasive andreluctant to talk that she was
(19:14):
gonna lose moving forward.
And she took me in the hallwayand screamed at me a couple
times, and and then the othertimes during the trial when uh
they pulled me back in forrebuttal testimony.
They had I had just woken up, Ihad been sleeping in another
room, and she started showing mepictures of the basement, and my
(19:35):
brain was just going all overthe place because I'm look now
looking at pictures of where Iwas abused, and then they throw
me on the stand and start, youknow, arguing about semantics.
There were no locks on thedoors.
What are you talking about?
And you're lying, you weren'tlocked in a closet because
there's no locks on the doors.
(19:56):
And I'm my I couldn't even comecome up with a rational
reasoning of trying to explainthat if he put you in there, you
would be an absolute idiot toopen that door and walk out on
your own because he's gonna beatthe daylights out of you.
And so if he put you in there,you were locked in the closet.
(20:17):
I'm sorry that I used the wordlock when there were no locks on
the doors, but that's how itwas.
And but the whole time my brainwas just trying to, you know,
pull this information.
But the minute you start yellingat me or challenging me or
calling me a liar or all the allthese things that went on during
(20:39):
the trial, uh, survivors' brainsjust start, you know, going
haywire.
And so the whole trial itselfwas extremely traumatizing, but
I would never change it for aminute.
I am so, so grateful that Iwalked that that journey
because, you know, spoileralert, he was convicted.
(21:03):
And it was a tough conviction tosell because it's uh almost
eight years later.
And you know, I it was basicallymy testimony and others that
testified in my behalf versushim and his people testifying.
It was like, who do you believe?
(21:23):
And that's what won her thetrial was why would this
individual come in here, makethese claims, go through an
entire trial?
She's like, Was this fun foryou?
No, ma'am, this was not fun forme.
You know, I'm I'm not herebecause I'm bored.
And so she kind of when in herclosing argument explained that
(21:44):
to the jury as to who had moreto lose, who was who was facing
a bigger fallout.
And so, you know, the the jurysaw through all of the
manipulation and lies from histestimony and and really how
sincere I was, and the fact thatwhy would I be sitting here
explaining all this if not if itdidn't happen?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Well, right, plus your actual physical reaction to
some of the questioning.
Um and that's one thing that'sso frustrating about the
judicial system is the lack oftrauma-informed individuals who
are working there to understandwhat is happening to the victim.
I mean, if you go to therapy andyou have a therapist who's in a
(22:28):
room with it's just the two ofyou, and you are talking about
if we're going back to thismemory, you have a way to keep
yourself grounded to know whereyou are presently.
But in the courtroom, they'reasking you, I want you to go
back to that basement and I wantyou to detail everything while
he's sitting right there, andthen to not have any
(22:50):
understanding of why youwouldn't be able to think
clearly and why you would befreaking out.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Yes, I agree.
It was really, really tough.
And that is not the bestapproach at all for survivors.
And I've I was even asked tospeak to uh a college health and
human services abouttrauma-informed health care.
I mean, not to go down anotherdifferent rabbit hole, but that
(23:17):
in itself also is very difficultfor people who have been abused
to navigate the health systemand to deal with what that
brings.
And so both of those need to belooked, everything needs to be
looked at in terms oftrauma-informed for when you
know we have women, men,children who are that
(23:38):
traumatized.
And then you're expecting themto kind of perform normally, and
it just doesn't work out thatway in many instances.
Going to the grocery store canbe you know triggering for me.
Um, going into any kind ofcrowds or any any anything.
I mean, sounds, smells are veryoften triggering to me when I'm
(24:07):
out in public.
And I keep myself very secureand closed in because I
eliminate triggers that way.
And so just going to thedentist, I mean, I cancel my
appointments more times than Iactually show up because it's so
hard for me to get there and bein that in that type of
position.
(24:27):
It's horrible.
I mean, I'm just my hands aregripping the chair the whole
time.
I'm almost hyperventilating, andI'm just like, just get it done,
get it done.
And so there's a lot of thingsthat we don't think about when
people are abused at that levelof how they deal with just very
basic day-to-day life.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Right.
And even outside of thecourtroom, there's not very much
support in general forsurvivors, just the day-to-day,
a lot of individuals could lookat a survivor and question, like
how you were mentioning whywould you keep going back over
to that house instead of holdingthe perpetrator accountable for
(25:08):
why would you abuse a child?
It's why asking, why would achild go back to that house?
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
Right.
Yes.
Yeah, we always looked at wealways look at the victim first.
I don't know how we've gottenthere in society, but yeah, I
mean, I never asked for any ofthat.
It I came up upon ithappenstance.
I walked in on an ab on himabusing his daughter, and then
bam, I'm pulled into it.
Whether he was intending to pullme in before that or not, I have
(25:37):
no clue.
But I was I was pulled in beforeI even knew what was going on.
And before I could even think ofa way of getting myself out of
it, it was already too late.
I mean, he was threatening me.
He was threatening he wasthreatening in every possible
conceivable way.
And half the time they werecontradicting and it didn't even
(25:57):
make sense.
But I'm eight years old and I'mhave no clue what's going on.
And so, you know, it's we forgetwhat an eight-year-old mind is
doing.
And so to an adult, my returningto that house does seem insane.
But again, you're you're notthinking from an
(26:20):
eight-year-old's perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
Right.
Well, and then even in uhvictims of domestic violence as
adults, the the victim a lot oftimes will return back to their
abuser, and it's there's apsychological connection that
brings them back to it.
And even despite just beingquestioned of why would you stay
so long or why would you goback, there's always the
(26:42):
questions too of like, well, didthat really happen?
That sounds awfully exaggerated.
I mean, there's because and Iget it, as human beings, we
don't want to believe that otherhuman beings can do that to
another person.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
Right, right.
Yeah, but you're right.
The question should be, youknow, why is your husband
beating you?
Let's look at that first beforewe ask her and question her or
doubt her story.
It's like, why does he thinkit's okay that he knocks you
down because dinner was 10minutes late?
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
Exactly, exactly.
We need to start turning ourfocus more on the perpetrators.
Uh so you mentioned a secondbook.
What do you have a title of thesecond book?
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Yes, it's it's still called Carpenter Road, but it's
the inadmissible years, becauseeverything at trial, which is a
legal term, was inadmissible.
And so it is called CarpenterRoad, the inadmissible years,
and it does have a differentcover than the first one.
And so being that it's aprequel, I kept it very similar.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
That makes sense.
And so, like you discussed, thatone goes into more of what
happened when everythinginitiated, so the reader can
understand the grooming processmore, and it gives professionals
who work with children aninsight as to what clues to look
(28:08):
for in children who may begetting abused at home.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you read it, uh you willprobably be thinking to
yourself, what especially in mygrade school, what are those
teachers thinking?
What are they doing?
Why are they not helping her?
I mean, I came in withexcellent, I switched schools in
third grade, and that's how Imet the family.
(28:34):
And so coming into this school,I'm coming in with very good
academic records, attendance,and behavioral, no behavioral
issues at all.
Eight months later, I'm barelypassing any class.
I'm absent more than I'm there,and I have horrendous behavioral
issues within eight months ofstepping into that situation,
(28:57):
into that school, and not oneteacher tried to help me, tried
to reach out, tried to ask mequestions.
I was visibly bruised and inpain quite often.
You know, none of that wasaddressed.
And so that that was a reallyunfortunate situation, and um I
(29:21):
give all credit to when I wentinto high school that those
teachers um intervened.
It was really scary at firstbecause I wasn't used to it, and
I knew that it was gonna causesome sort of um exposure to what
was happening, which was mybiggest fear, which again is
(29:43):
part of that whole groomingsituation of what I'm thinking
of being caught is like theworst in the world, even though
I want out of the situationdesperately.
Getting caught was as worse asthe abuse itself.
And I give them all the creditfor you know, helping me get out
(30:03):
of the situation, um, making myfamily put me into therapy,
early intervention for therapy.
I I wouldn't be where I am todayhad the teachers at that school
stepped in.
But my grooming process wasviolent.
And I don't really I mean, Idon't know what the percent.
(30:24):
Are on grooming or abuse whenit's done in a way that's, you
know, very methodic and almostkind at the beginning.
You know, they're paying specialattention, they're giving them
treats, they're focusing on atalent that they might have.
Um, and they're kind of takingthem along the process of
(30:46):
ultimately when that line iscrossed.
In my situation, he was violentright from the beginning, but I
would still say that there was alot of grooming that took place
because I didn't have a cluewhat he was doing, and I didn't
understand for the longest timethat he would ask me questions
(31:09):
like, Where have you been?
And, you know, I'm I didn't knowif he meant five minutes ago or
if he meant a week ago.
I didn't I didn't understandwhat he was getting at.
But what he was ultimatelyteaching me was that I better
get my ass back over to thathouse as often as I can.
(31:31):
And when I'm summoned by myfriend, who I she was inviting
me to play, but really what thatmeant was you need to come over.
And it took me months to reallycomprehend that that's where he
was going with this.
That's what he was talkingabout, that's what he was
intending me to do.
Was that if I had a free night,a free day, whatever, I was
(31:54):
expected to be at their house.
And he beat me multiple timesover and over again for not
getting that.
And so I think my case was alittle extreme and maybe not the
norm, normal grooming type of aprocess, but it still was there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Did so did all six of his children attend the same
school as you?
SPEAKER_01 (32:19):
They did, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
Okay, and the teachers ignored the symptoms
from all of you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
Yes.
Um there were multiple occasionswhere one or many of us would
have visible bruising or marks.
Um, there were multipleoccasions where our behavior
should have been like completelya red flag that I think there's
something seriously wrong,especially when there was a
(32:49):
collection of at the school atany given time, there was
probably at most four of themthere at the same time because
of the age spread out.
But I know when I first startedthere, there was um four of
them.
One of them was so cognizedcognitively delayed because of,
I think, head trauma, uh, andbeing repeatedly held back.
(33:14):
I mean, and then uh the oldestboy would break down in absolute
hysterics for leaving his bootson the bus or leaving his boots
at school because he knew whenhe got home he was going to be
beaten for that.
And so all of us just shy ofhaving a sign across our bodies
(33:38):
that said, We are being horriblyabused, please help.
All everything was right there.
It it was so obvious, and it'snot obvious 30 years later, it
was obvious then, but it was forsome reason ignored.
And I would like an explanationfrom the school on why that was.
(34:03):
Um, I did at eighth grade mylast two weeks in that school.
Uh, we had an event because wewere graduating and I had a
massive meltdown, and my teacherwould not let me out of the room
until I told her why I was ho sohysterical.
(34:26):
And the only thing I could comeup with to say was I was
molested, which was so not whatyou would classify what was
happening, but that's all Icould muster out to say was I
was molested.
And it was like I never said it.
She's legally obligated toreport that nothing was done.
(34:51):
And then I tried to talk to herabout something else, like a
couple weeks later, right beforewe were to graduate, and she
barely looked at me, and when Isaid something to her, she just
got a very odd look on her faceand put her head back down, like
I did not say a thing, and shewouldn't even address me
anymore.
And I just slumped out of theclass, and yeah, that was that
(35:16):
was my grade school experience.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
That's horrific.
I mean, talk about theopportunities where somebody
could change a trajectory ofyour life.
There were so manyopportunities.
And then they just you said thatyou had a fourth grade level
reading um ability.
Did they just continue to tomove you up despite that?
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
Yes, they sure did.
For I think for uh multiplereasons.
One, it was a private school.
So, you know, my my mom had akind of a say in that, unlike in
the public school systems, theysay, no, you're you are not
advancing.
You're not advancing.
In private schools, they can dowhat they want, and they just
(36:02):
kept advancing me.
I know one time my mom said, No,you're not holding her back, but
that was very early on, and Iwouldn't say I was in complete
uh doomsday with my academics atthat point, but she she did say
no, and they approached heranother year, and then after
(36:26):
that, they had no businessadvancing me.
And I also believe they didn'twant to hold me back because
they didn't want me in theirclass again.
I was horrible.
I was a horrible, horrible childonce this abuse started.
My behavior was such a massivered flag because of the stuff I
(36:47):
was doing.
I mean, today you would look ata child behaving that way and be
like, holy crap, who is abusingthat child?
You wouldn't say, is that childbeing abused?
You would say, Who is doing it?
And I was an awful, awfulstudent.
And I think they just kind ofkept pushing me, pushing me, and
pushing me because they didn'twant to deal with me.
(37:07):
They didn't want me to repeat.
And as a private school, theywere, you know, able to do that.
And by the time I was in seventhgrade, the teachers didn't even
give me textbooks.
They didn't even assign me thetextbooks.
They knew damn well I could notread them.
And so I was just allowed to sitin the back of the classroom.
(37:29):
If I kept myself under control,I could sit in the back of the
classroom and just do basicallywhatever I wanted because they
washed their hands of me at thatpoint by the seventh grade.
No textbooks at all.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
That's awful.
No, you went the high school youwent to is a different high
school than the family did.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Correct.
Yes, I went to I continued on tothe kind of like the next step
within the private schoolsystem.
I went to the private highschool and his family um went to
the community public school.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
Um, in your first Carpenter Road, you his daughter
comes to take the stand on hisbehalf.
And at that time, I think youmentioned that she was still
living at home with him.
Is that right?
That's correct.
Okay.
Do you have any idea what'shappened to any of the family
(38:32):
members since then?
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
I do.
And I and I, in the epilogue ofmy prequel, I'd go into what
happened to them, but uh it's amixed bag.
Um, the one that I spoke aboutwho was cognitively delayed due
to head trauma has passed at 45.
And not really sure how or why.
(38:57):
And then my friend um did herbest.
She never obviously dealt withher trauma at all.
I don't even, I think she's gotit so segregated in her mind
that I don't even think she isaware of it at times, but she
didn't um seek any help oranything.
(39:19):
She tried to do a military uhroute, but was ultimately
honorably discharged.
But due to mental healthreasons, they basically asked
her to leave.
And then uh when her own fatherwas released from prison after
20 years, she had a completemassive, massive mental
(39:43):
breakdown and unleashed hertrauma on everyone around her to
the point where it became a hugeproblem, to the point where uh
everyone around her wasquestioning what was going on
and could not understand whysome switch had flipped in her
mind and she was losing hermarbles.
(40:05):
And they hired a privatedetective because she was
unleashing such toxicity withinthe school system, within their
neighborhood, within herfriends' group.
They're all just looking around,going, what in the hell is going
on?
And they hired somebody tofigure it out, and they
backtracked it and found thetrial, found her father, found
(40:28):
me, and you know, asked if Iwould be willing to speak to
them about what possibly couldhave set her off.
And I said, Okay, they releasedhim, and then they ultimately
put him in the state she wasliving.
I think some distance was there,but put put him put him back in
her state, um, which again thatis explained in the first
(40:52):
carpenter road because um therewas a horrible trauma that
occurred after he went intoprison at the household.
And the mom took the rest of thechildren that were left and
moved out of state.
So then when he was releasedfrom prison, they put him down
in the same state as the rest ofthem, and it did not go well at
(41:15):
all.
But she has um, I would considerher dangerous at this point,
which makes me a little bitnervous releasing this next
book.
But yeah, she's she has uh Iwould say very closely mimicked
a lot of behaviors that she grewup with, and it's very
(41:36):
terrifying.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
And I suppose there's no legal way for anyone
to keep you updated on tabs ofwhere she is or what she's
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
Uh, I have an inside person that is um uh that no
longer leaves the house becauseof it.
So frightened, so terrified, sotraumatized by what my friend
unleashed she won't.
So I do stay loosely inconnection with one of them just
(42:10):
to kind of keep tabs on what'sgoing on.
Um, but yeah, it's it was areally bad situation.
I have a file about three inchesthick of everything that she
did, and she's so skilled and amaster manipulator that the
authorities didn't know who tobelieve.
They didn't be and also becausethe whole situation was so
(42:33):
insane as to what she was doingand what these people were
reporting was happening, theofficers and even even at the
school, they're like it it theycouldn't wrap their head around
it.
They didn't have the fullpicture, they didn't have the
whole story, and so theycouldn't wrap their head around
who was telling the truth.
(42:53):
And she is so skilled and and soconniving, and just probably one
of the best actresses I've everseen on this earth.
She had everyone just tossingtheir hands in the air, going,
What?
What we don't know who tobelieve, we don't know what to
think, we don't know what wedon't know what this is.
And so, again, there's anotherperfect example of someone who
(43:17):
didn't deal with what happenedto them, and now she's unleashed
it all on everyone around her.
SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
Yeah, and that's there's I always say there's a
ripple effect of any form ofabuse, especially when you're
talking about childhood trauma,because it just continues on.
Even when you heal your trauma,there's there's just so many
opportunities for other peopleto feel the effects of it, even
(43:43):
if it's not direct effect.
But oh my gosh, this is like ahuge example of that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
Yes, absolutely.
It really is, even more so thanmy my mom.
I mean, what she's what she'sdone, and I don't feel
comfortable going into thatbecause like I said, they're
they're they're still dangerous.
And even though uh we'reseparated by many states, I she
she's uh very unpredictable.
SPEAKER_00 (44:10):
Now your abuser was it I don't know if I'm
remembering this correctly.
He was not allowed to live inthe same county as you.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Right.
That was a condition of hisparole to me, that he would not
be released back into mycommunity.
However, at the last minute,they went back on that.
And then I put up an absolutehuge fit and involved the media
because um we had quit jobs, wehad sold our house, we were
(44:42):
moving back to where I grew up,where it happened, only because
I felt safer in my hometown, inmy community, my family, my
friends, all my people thatsupported me during the trial.
I mean, I knew everyone becauseit's a small town and I felt
(45:03):
safe, safer being back in thiscommunity if he was going to be
out.
And then they said, Well, wedon't have anywhere to put him,
no one will take him.
Uh, we don't know what to do.
We're gonna have to put him backin your county.
And I said, The hell you are,and I went nuts and was like,
(45:24):
no, and I I got everyoneinvolved back in when you could,
you know, barely internet days,and involved the media, and they
put so much pressure on theDepartment of Corrections that
they all of a sudden foundanother solution.
But it was to put him back outof it was to put him out of
state, back where his family hadfled to because of what happened
(45:50):
after the trial.
Um, they fled the county, andnow they're getting a knock on
their door, and they're like,guess what?
We're putting him here with youguys.
And I don't think they had achoice in the matter.
I don't know a lot of details onthat, but yeah, that that was a
mess upon his even upon hisrelease, it was a mess.
(46:12):
And I got so screwed over inthat situation too.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
I mean, this is just another perfect example of
taking care of the perpetratormore than the victim.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Yes, it sure was.
Yeah, and they told me someoneof his caliber would not be
released back into society, andI'm like, oh, thank God.
And then all of a sudden, nope,you know, we've got overcrowding
prisons, so here he comes.
Welcome him back into society.
And he did not follow theconditions of his parole as you
(46:44):
should have, and no one refused,and no one, everyone refused to
to deal with it and lock himback up because you know why
would we want to go to thetrouble of dealing with that
again and then start paying forhim to be incarcerated?
But he put in a visitationrequest to my friend, and he's
(47:08):
not allowed to be aroundchildren, he's not allowed to be
near schools, nothing.
And on the form, are there anychildren in the house?
No.
There was a 10-year-olddaughter.
To me, that's a violation of hisparole to try to seek visitation
with his daughter, who has a10-year-old in the home, who
(47:32):
he's not allowed to be around,and then lie about it on the
form, and yet he was nothinghappened.
His parole should have beenrevolt.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:46):
Yeah.
Um so when you were when yousaid placing him somewhere, were
did he get placed into a home,like a some kind of home-based
parole sort of situation?
SPEAKER_01 (47:59):
He was placed back with family in that in South
Carolina.
SPEAKER_00 (48:05):
Like in their home?
SPEAKER_01 (48:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:08):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, and I and I don't know.
Why can't he just go?
Why can't they just put himsomewhere else?
Like, why does he have to be intheir home?
SPEAKER_01 (48:18):
I don't know.
I was not involved in all ofthat, and that is the and that
is like people don't maybetotally understand that once you
become incarcerated, you becomebasically property of Department
of Corrections.
And Department of Correctionsoperates very differently and
siloed from like the the rest ofthe judicial system where the
(48:40):
prosecuting attorneys deal withit, where you're sentenced,
where you're tried, all of that.
Once Department of Correctionstakes over, they make the
decisions and they do what theywant.
And that is where you knoweverything went wrong upon his
release.
First of all, they released himand they shouldn't have.
(49:01):
And second of all, um he alreadyhad one uh situation uh where
his daughter was basicallykidnapped and raped by his
cellmate that had been released,and they didn't they refused to
connect the dots on that.
(49:22):
That was not a coincidence, thatwas not happenstance, that was
to prove a point, so theyignored that, then they released
him, which was another mistake,under the conditions they would
not put him back where I was,and they went back on that, and
then they forced family inanother state to take him.
(49:42):
I don't know how that you knowtranspired.
Um, but ultimately his son thatpassed away at 45 was in the
home with him, and I, you know,I can only imagine what that was
like, and do not have a cause ofdeath on that young man, but
nonetheless, being back in thathome with him had to be
(50:05):
horrific.
And yeah, the Department ofCorrections just they just do
what they want and they do not,absolutely, unequivocally, do
not take the survivors intoaccount at all.
They could care less.
It's bottom line dollar.
Get this man out, save us thismoney, and we don't care where
(50:28):
he goes or what he does again.
And no one's really looking atholding, you know, Department of
Corrections accountable for someof these people that they're
releasing back into society, oreven the judges.
SPEAKER_00 (50:41):
My God.
And let's let's either put himback in the county of the woman
who put him in prison or hisfamily.
Either way, he's abusedeveryone.
Everyone.
Yes.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Yeah, it's like I I sit back and I think, God, I I
wish I was this intelligent andgifted to make this all up.
Because I mean, how do you can'tmake this shit up?
It's insane.
The stuff that happened at thetrial, after the trial, 20 years
later, 30 years later, it'sstill happening within this
(51:19):
family unit.
And it is completely insane.
I mean, I I tell the story and Ithink, good lord, I can't even
hardly believe it myselfsometimes that what's all
transpired over all these yearsfrom the very beginning.
It's just, I mean, people wentmissing, people died.
I mean, uh, people uh ofsomebody that testified for me
(51:43):
and and witnessing him abusinghis children, ultimately they
found a way to turn him in foruh you know, farmers sometimes
say they may have planted thismany acres and yielded this much
acreage, and those numbers don'talways match up.
(52:04):
And then the government kind ofhelps them with that.
Well, they knew somebody whoknew somebody, and the next
thing you know, one of thewitnesses from the trial is
going to jail when they all doit.
SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Okay, so now we can seek justice.
SPEAKER_01 (52:19):
Yeah, I mean, and then one of the witnesses
disappeared.
I mean, it it like no one couldfind him.
And it the stuff that happenedduring that whole entire time is
just and it makes you understandwhy I'm so paranoid and fearful
of you know everything aroundme, because I watched all of
(52:43):
this unfold right down to wherehis cellmate was released and
came back to his house and didthat to the 14-year-old
daughter.
I mean, it's it's just scarystuff.
SPEAKER_00 (52:55):
Well, yeah, and this this part reinforces the fact of
a child being afraid ofrepercussions for telling.
So you know that child keepsgoing back to the house because
the consequences of not goingback to the house are too severe
and too scary to fathom.
And it's and it's come tofruition.
(53:17):
Like he has come through onthreats and uh with people
missing and his daughter beingattacked from his former
cellmate.
SPEAKER_01 (53:26):
Yes, yes.
Everyone that testified on hisbehalf, every one of them said
he is a man of his word, whichwas a hilarity because that's
what we were saying during theentire courtroom trauma drama
was he is a man of his word.
If he gave you a threat, it wasnot idle, it would be carried
(53:50):
out, and he did that throughouthis entire life with his
friends, his family, hischildren.
And he was really alwaysconsidered, you know, very
volatile and dangerous.
And you know, if you crossedhim, you were gonna learn the
hard way because he was a man ofhis word.
SPEAKER_00 (54:11):
My goodness.
Um, okay, Morgan, is thereanything you think that we did
not touch on?
My mind is reeling.
I don't know that I can thinkstraight.
I have to leave this up to you.
SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
I know it's like uh it's like a 10-episode Netflix
series.
It's so insane.
It just so deep and goes so farback and is so deep, it's really
hard to wrap your head around insuch a short time because so
much happened to me, to hisfamily, and then all of the
(54:45):
fallout afterwards.
But no, I don't I don't knowwhat else we can touch on other
than um I I really would like toaddress maybe um how and what
we're doing to help children umsee the red flags of grooming.
(55:06):
Because we did we did that wholebad touch, good touch for a long
time, and that was a hugedisservice because once you're
touched, it's too late.
So why are we teaching kids?
You know they're being groomed,leading up to the to the point
where they're then the line iscrossed.
(55:26):
So why are we not backing up andteaching about what grooming
looks like in all scenarios tochildren?
And and and also I'm not in theschool system that much, and I
don't, you know, I I don't knowmuch about what is taught and
(55:47):
not being taught, but it seemslike we've kind of gotten away
from dealing with abuse andhaving those after-school
special seminars at school thatsay, hey, you know, this is what
to watch out for, this is whatyou need to report, this is you
know, this is what you do.
And that we seem to have gottenaway from that, but I would
(56:09):
really like us to um bring back,you know, some educational
services for the children aboutgrooming.
What does grooming look what isgrooming?
What does it look like?
Who might be the culprit?
Who might be the targetedindividual?
(56:29):
Um and and then go over allscenarios of what grooming can
look like amongst differenttypes of populations and really
help children because childrenare extremely intelligent, very
perceptive, they miss verylittle, and so we can very
easily teach them when someonestarts singling you out, um, you
(56:54):
know, maybe talk to your parentabout that.
But we're we're just kind oflike I don't know, we've just
dropped the whole topic and arenot helping kids understand what
happens when a pedophile zeroesin on you.
What does that look like fromthe very first interaction?
(57:14):
And I would love to bring thatback into our culture and say,
hey, this is what it looks like,this is what you need to do.
And at all costs, you know, makesure you inform somebody.
Um that that would be I would Iwould really like to see that
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (57:33):
I agree with you.
I think that uh, you know, we'rein a society where the I mean,
we talk about a lot of things,but we also don't want like to
talk about a lot of things.
So things that make usuncomfortable, like pedophiles,
the fact that children areabused by people that they are
familiar with, that it's notjust a stranger all the time who
(57:53):
sweeps them away and abusesthem.
And it's a it's veryuncomfortable to think about.
It's uncomfortable to thinkabout teenage violence or
domestic violence, all of thesetopics that people don't want to
talk about, or they'll hear alittle snippet and say, like,
okay, okay, yeah, yeah.
I hear what you're saying.
Let's move on to something else.
It's uncomfortable for everyone.
But if we don't talk about thethings that are uncomfortable,
(58:17):
then nothing gets changed.
Everybody's able to continue tosweep these topics under the
rug.
So yeah, I completely agree withyou.
I think we need to talk more,especially to children.
That's where a lot of thisstarts at.
SPEAKER_01 (58:31):
Right.
And the fallout is on ourchildren when we don't talk
about these topics and whenwe're not discussing them.
And it's it's devastatingbecause the reality is stranger
abduction or strangermolestation or rape is quite
rare, but that's all we see ondatelines and ABC 2020 and uh
(58:56):
you know Netflix documentaryseries, are these instances
where uh an unknown individualkidnaps or or uh hurts a child,
but those are really rare.
And most children are abused bysomebody they know, and it
(59:17):
started with a a very basicgrooming process, and and then
just starts to kind of escalatefrom there.
And if we can intervene withchildren and educating them
about what that looks like, Ithink we could make a huge
difference for kids.
SPEAKER_00 (59:37):
And I I mean, I'm so obviously I'm so grateful that
somebody did intervene with youwhen you were 14 and you started
to find all these advocates, butit's it's also just so
heartbreaking to hear of theintervention coming late, you
know.
And I again I agree with youthat these interventions, let's
start the interventions beforesomething happens.
(01:00:00):
Instead of being reactive andcleaning up whatever trauma has
occurred, let's do something tostop it from happening in the
first place.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Yes, I think we're the most reactive society on
this planet.
We we don't we don't learn fromour mistakes, we don't make the
necessary changes.
Um we're very Very reactionary.
It's really frustrating and sadbecause so much so many things
could be prevented.
(01:00:32):
I cannot wrap my head around whywe're not doing it.
I mean, I it and you can't evensay it's money because what it
costs society to have all of useither on disability or in rehab
or whatever is way more costlythan if we were putting
(01:00:54):
preventative measures in place.
It would cost a lot less to dothat.
And I just can't understand forthe life of me why as a society
we choose not to go that route.
I just I wish somebody couldexplain it to me because I have
no clue.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:10):
Same.
Same.
Um okay, so Morgan, how dopeople get your books?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:18):
Well, I'm I published it through Amazon, and
through Amazon you can order itin hardcover and paperback and e
and I finally did a uh I had Ireleased it in an Audible.
It is it is a generate AIgenerated read, but it's not too
(01:01:41):
bad.
Um but uh the you're alsoallowed to find it on Nook
through Barnes and Noblewebsites.
You can order it, Apple, umpretty much everywhere.
But to actually purchase aphysical copy, um, it's probably
easiest to go to Amazon.
(01:02:03):
I have a lot of local bookstoresthat carry it, but um globally
Amazon would be your best bet.
But I recommend readingCarpenter Road Set in Silence
first and and then read thesecond one as it was intended,
but you they're standalone, youdon't have to.
Um, but you get the the fullstory when you read both of
(01:02:24):
them, no matter which order, butyou'll get the whole picture.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:27):
Okay.
And the second book again isCarpenter Road.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:30):
The inadmissible.
It's a legal term and it is amouthful.
Um, but that that is why I wasnot allowed to talk about 80% of
what happened to me.
It was inadmissible.
And I was like, are you guyscrazy?
I mean, the the whole story, youknow, revolved around my needing
(01:02:55):
to disclose what happened toeveryone in the household
because otherwise it it reallydidn't make sense.
I mean, I'm sure the jury wassitting there going, what in the
hell is going on?
Because, you know, nothing wasallowed to be talked about.
And so I titled it theinadmissible years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:14):
Okay, perfect.
And before we close, do you haveany parting words of
encouragement or just uh animportant message to take away?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:25):
I I saw somewhere a phrase that I've kind of adopted
because I loved it, but shamemust change sides.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:33):
I loved that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:34):
Yeah, I did too.
And it's not mine, and I saw itand I quote unquote borrowed it,
but shame must change sides.
And the the shame victims feel,or survivors, however you want
to say that, is so astronomicalthat it's suffocating.
The shame is just absolutelysuffocating to us as survivors,
(01:03:57):
and it must change sides becausewe don't own it.
We didn't put it upon us, wedidn't ask for it, but yet
that's what keeps the statisticsso high is the shame people feel
from being abused that theyeither don't talk about it,
don't report it, pretend itnever happened in my friend's
(01:04:19):
case.
I mean, she she doesn't evenacknowledge she was abused, even
30 years later.
And the shame and stigma that isplaced upon us from the minute
we're touched does not belong tous.
And survivors need to let thatgo and put that back onto the
(01:04:40):
perpetrator because it belongsto the perpetrator who thought
it was okay to cross that lineand then damage us forever.
But I have to say to survivors,it it doesn't belong to us.
Go ahead and send it right backover to the perpetrator.
It's not ours.
And I really, really encourageothers to try to do the best
(01:05:05):
they can to heal in whatever waypossible because we owe that to
ourselves.
We deserve that, we deserve tobe whole and shame free and feel
that we are lovable because weare, and those are just messages
that the perpetrator puts uponus in order to keep us in line,
(01:05:26):
and it doesn't belong to us, itneeds to go back to the other
side.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:30):
I agree, and that's such a powerful message.
Thank you so much, Morgan, foryour time and your books and
your message and coming on heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:39):
Oh, you're absolutely welcome, and I thank
you for listening and having me,and I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:47):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you again, Morgan, forjoining me today, and thank you,
Warriors, for listening.
I've included links to PurchaseMorgan's books as well as her
one in three profile in the shownotes.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong, andwherever you are in your
(01:06:08):
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
Find more information, registeras a guest, or leave a review by
going to the website one andthreepodcast.com.
That's the number one, I and thenumber three podcast.com.
Follow one and three onInstagram, Facebook, and Twitter
(01:06:30):
at one and three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate review and subscribe.
One and three is a point fivePanoy production.
Music written and performed byTim Crow.
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
I'm your host, Ingrid.
If there's one thing we'velearned over the years, it's
this.
Never underestimate theresilience of a survivor.
Today's guest embodies thatresilience.
She not only survived years ofabuse that began at the young
age of eight, but also faced herabuser in court, enduring the
(00:47):
pain of being re-victimized,before bravely sharing her story
with the world in her memoir,Carpenter Road, Sentenced to
Silence.
She didn't stop there either.
Her prequel, Carpenter Road, TheInadmissible Years, was recently
released as well.
Her mission is clear andpowerful to ensure victims,
(01:10):
specifically children, are seen,heard, protected, and empowered
to prevent abuse before ithappens.
It's my honor to introduce youto Morgan.
Hi, Morgan.
Thank you for joining me.
Hi, thank you for having me.
Um, so before we get into ourconversation, could you give a
(01:33):
bit of a background just so wecan get to know you a little
bit?
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Um I let's see, my background inum my professional life has been
caregiving for the elderly,especially with dementia and
Alzheimer's.
And I worked in that field for avery long time and did private
caregiving for a long time.
(01:58):
And then unfortunately, myhealth went south due to the
abuse, and I haven't been ableto work since then.
Um, I'm still undergoing a lotof procedures and so forth.
And but all that time I wasloving to write.
I was writing my story, I wasmainly doing it for myself, but
(02:21):
then I thought, you know, maybethis could help others, maybe
this could help survivors, um,especially when I added in the
trial.
I thought, wow, this couldreally be beneficial for people
to see what it's like to gothrough a trial.
And I just kept foraging aheadwith my memoir and decided to
actually publish it.
(02:42):
And it that has gone very well.
Um, I live in the Midwest withall of my furry friends and
animals and family, and um justkind of lead a quiet life and
have a ball.
And I graduated from WesternMichigan University back in 2005
with a master's in gerontology,which is significant because I
(03:04):
wasn't able to read until I wasin my mid-20s, beyond a fourth
grade level, because once myabuse started, my education
stopped.
And so that was quite anaccomplishment for myself.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
And your abuse is uh you detail it in your book that
you were referring to isCarpenter Road uh Sentence to
Silence.
Right.
And that and that chronicles theabuse, but not the beginning of
the abuse, correct?
Starting at the end.
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Yes, correct.
That is, and I did thatintentionally.
Um, I started Carpenter RoadSentence to Silence at the age
of 14 when I'm entering highschool.
And I did that because somebodyasked me, what was the very
first time you tried to wave thewhite flag to get help to get
(03:55):
out of the situation?
Because until then, uh I wasabsolutely terrified to even
consider telling anyoneanything.
And so I left a note under myteacher's door and I did not
sign it.
And I wrote it anonymously andsent her that I needed help.
(04:16):
And uh that is when that is,excuse me, that is where the
book starts, is basically myleaving that note under the
door, and then it kind offollows me through high school
and still trying to get out ofthe situation.
And then ultimately I reportedthe abuse and a trial ensued.
(04:38):
And so Carpenter Road, Sentenceof Silence, goes back and forth
between my time of dealing witheverything and the court
transcripts.
So you actually get to read theentire uh trial throughout the
book.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
And from what I understand, I did read the book,
is that you didn't even go intofull detail of the level of
abuse that you suffered.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
That is yes, that is correct.
Because uh mainly because Iwanted to follow what happened
with the trial and plus the timeframe of the book at the very
beginning.
I'm still um enmeshed in theabuse, but for like another
eight months, and then it's allabout me trying to um get out
(05:31):
get my feet under me and try tohave some sense of life and try
to deal with what happened tome, and then and then ultimately
trying to help the children thatwere still left behind in that
house get out from under it.
And so when I started it at umthe age of 14, I was almost out
of the abuse.
(05:52):
So I left out so much, and theother reason I did that was
because the trial itself, due tostatute of limitations, would
only permit me to talk aboutabuse that happened from mid-age
12 until it ended.
I wasn't able to even talk aboutor discuss the abuse prior to
(06:16):
that at the trial.
And I also wasn't allowed tospeak about what he did to other
family members in the housebecause they were so reluctant
to speak up and tell or testifyor even admit what had happened,
they were silent, and so nothingcould come into the trial except
(06:37):
for you know certain instancesafter the age of 12, either
physical or sexual.
And so I left out 80% of whathappened in the house out of the
first book, and then I had a lotof people ask me, why would you
go back over there?
That wasn't your house, itwasn't it wasn't my family, I
(06:59):
wasn't related.
Why would you go back overthere?
And I was a little stunned bythe question, but yet it was
valid because why would a childintentionally go over to their
friend's house knowing what wasgoing to happen?
And I thought, we have to bemore educated in trauma and in
(07:21):
the grooming process and whathappens to children when they
get caught up in thesesituations.
And so I instead of you knowexplaining that or explaining
myself to others, I decided towrite a prequel and I started it
at the beginning of the abuse,and it then ultimately meets up
with Carpenter O'Set intoSilence.
(07:42):
And so I devolves absolutelyeverything that happened to me,
and it it is quite thebombshell, and and both are
very, very important andcritical to read because the
first one I think is reallyhelpful for survivors to read,
because you're you're on thisjourney of emotional battling,
(08:05):
trying to overcome what you wentthrough and survive that.
And then this next one is moreslanted towards anyone working
with children, because youactually see and feel as I write
this from a child's perspective,what it was like to go through
(08:26):
such a traumatic experience forthat many years and what that
what that did to me emotionally,physically, spiritually, um,
sexually, everything.
And so um the two together, Ithink, are a really good
sounding board for people tounderstand what trauma does to
children.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Well, and I I like how you wrote Carpenter Road,
how it would go from, I mean,not present day today, but
present day where you were inthe in the courtroom and then
flashing back to what was goingon a few years prior to that.
It's honestly reallyheartbreaking to understand one,
(09:07):
that a child was being abused,but two, that you started it at
14 and that's much later, that'syears after the abuse even
began.
And there are a lot of factorsthat play into almost this like
perfect storm for you to be thevictim.
(09:27):
And uh one of those things, am Iwrong?
It's like a generational trauma.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yes.
Yeah.
In my in the second uh book, theprequel, I talk about my family
a little bit more because somany people were like, How did
your parents not see this?
How did they not understand whatwas happening?
How did teachers miss this?
But in my instance, um my motherwas abused by her father.
(09:55):
He was drafted into World War IIunexpectedly.
He was thinking he was headedoff to Western Michigan
University with a basketballscholarship.
And the next thing he is draggedonto a plane going to Okinawa at
18 and having no clue what'sgoing on, and came home four
(10:16):
years later so destroyed byWorld War II and not having met
my mom until then, because mygrandma was pregnant when he
left, he didn't bond with herand he treated her horribly.
Um, he was also dealing with histrauma by drinking and
(10:38):
tormenting my mom, and he reallysignaled her out because um I I
think he just didn't bond withher, and so then he ultimately
started sexually abusing her.
And at 18, my mom left the houseand met my dad, and then they
(10:59):
got married, but she did notdeal with her trauma, she did
not ever seek help or anything.
She drank, and so, like yousaid, the perfect storm.
You know, I've got a mother whois drinking way too much, she's
drinking outside of the house,she's never home.
My father's working endlessly,and here I am just kind of
(11:23):
floating along by myself and youknow, experiencing some neglect
and some abuse at home.
And then I meet a family who hasa mom who never leaves the home,
but that was for a differentreason.
You know, six kids, food on thetable, dinner every night.
(11:45):
It wasn't very much, but it wasmore than what I was gonna find
at my house.
And so I just boom got caughtup.
But, you know, you kind of linkit back to my mom's drinking and
why that happened and um why herfather was abusive coming off of
a war like that.
It just, yeah, it was just likea snowball going downhill and a
(12:08):
perfect storm for uh me beingset up into that situation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Well, and then it would be almost understandable
if you continued that yourself,if you just continued into that
cycle because you've been sotraumatized for years, and you
still uh if you hadn't taken thesteps maybe to um legally seek
action, you could havepotentially continued in this
(12:34):
snowball effect, but you you didhave a few advocates for you
finally show up in high school.
And those helped.
I always love thinking of peoplewho are on this path, and it
just takes one person to bumpthem and change the entire
trajectory of their lives andhopefully in a better way.
(12:56):
And I feel like it came late foryou.
I think there were probablyquite a few opportunities that
could have come up prior to youleaving a note under your
teacher's door at the age of 14.
And and with I think those thoseadults who finally did advocate
for you and look out for you,and then along with your own
(13:17):
personal strive to survive,you've you already survived the
the physical trauma, but now tosurvive the psychological trauma
and recover from that, that's ahuge undertaking.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Yes, it is.
I mean, I advocate for us, everysurvivor, to take that journey
because ultimately it leads usback to being as whole as we
possibly can.
You know, it'll interrupt thatcycle of generational trauma.
Um, but we owe it to ourselvesto heal and not be silenced.
And so I really advocate fortaking the journey, even though
(13:53):
it is grueling and painful andvery difficult to recover from,
because that type of abuse, youknow, the sexual abuse of a
child is just destroys, destroysyou.
And it's very hard to come backfrom.
But your alternative is muchworse.
So I'm a big proponent of getinto therapy, get into
(14:17):
counseling, whatever that lookslike for you, but do the work so
you can heal that, if not youknow, for yourself, but for the
rest of your family.
Because, you know, it peoplesometimes um have that thinking
that, well, if she's abused,she's gonna abuse, you know, the
next person down the line.
(14:38):
That's not always the case inthe same way, but you can spread
your toxicity from your traumain other ways.
It could be at work, it could beat home, it could be wherever,
but somehow, some way, if youhaven't dealt with that trauma,
it's going to seep into yourlife and onto others in some
(14:58):
form or fashion.
And we, I mean, we've seen thatfor years and years.
I mean, we've watched it, youknow, unfold with um people that
we've known that have beenabused, whether it's in our own
family or in the community.
I mean, you you can see you cansee it happening when they you
can tell when someone hasn'tdealt with their trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
For sure.
And so Carpenter Road takes usthrough your journey of therapy
and dealing with your trauma andwhile still having the
legitimate fear of safety foryourself.
And it really showcases yourstrength because you eventually
(15:38):
don't stop there at just healingyourself.
You feel this obligation to lookinto legal action because you
did understand that there werestill younger children in the
home.
And it takes us then through thepsychological trauma then of the
re-victimization of the courtsystem.
So, do you want to talk a littlebit about the whole legal system
(16:02):
and that process and howdifficult that's this is a light
way to say it, difficult tomaneuver through.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Yes.
I hope, I hope, and pray thatit's different today than what I
experienced, but I haven'treally uh paid a huge amount of
attention to what what that'slike for survivors now.
And I know a lot of laws havechanged since my trial in '92.
So that some things haveimproved for victims and
(16:32):
survivors.
Um, but I would say that thejudicial system is still set up
to protect the perpetrator, notthe victim.
I mean, no matter what the crimeis, that is the case.
And so I wish we could kind oftake a look at that and say, you
know what, let's take care ofthe victim.
(16:54):
And these the people that aredoing the perpetrating, um,
maybe shouldn't have as quite asmany rights as we as we think,
because in my case, um justbeing put into the same
courtroom with him was extremelytraumatizing.
I could barely function, I couldbarely mentally operate.
(17:17):
I was expected to sit on a standless than 10 feet from him.
And then at one point, theyexpected me to draw the layout
of the house five feet from him.
My legs were shaking so bad Icould hardly stand up.
They, you know, no one took intoaccount how horrific it was for
me to be sitting in front of himdescribing all of these details
(17:41):
about what he did to me sexuallyin front of a courtroom of
people.
And, you know, I know they allowsmaller children to testify via
video, but I really think evenif you're an adult and you're,
you know, a survivor, you shouldbe able to do that too, because
that almost made me physically,physically sick and vomit every
(18:05):
day I was there, knowing what Iwas walking into.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Well, even your own uh legal representation, and I
know that she was trying to helpyou win your case, and and you
know, but even even she wouldsometimes she didn't understand
actually some of theinteractions that you had with
her.
It was um almost like alecturing for not doing what
(18:28):
you're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, it was shocking.
The first time she screamed atme, I I just my mind completely
shut down.
I was not expecting it, but Iunderstood it later.
Um, I was being very um evasiveand I was reluctant to talk.
Um, my parents at that time weresitting in the courtroom and she
was asking me questions about,you know, the neglect and
(18:53):
alcoholism in the house, and myparents are sitting there, and
I'm well, yeah, it wasn't, yeah,it was, yeah, that was kind of
hard, and that was it was itwasn't very good.
And I mean, she and it's likepulling teeth.
And then after that, she didn'tallow them in the courtroom.
But I was just being evasive andreluctant to talk that she was
(19:14):
gonna lose moving forward.
And she took me in the hallwayand screamed at me a couple
times, and and then the othertimes during the trial when uh
they pulled me back in forrebuttal testimony.
They had I had just woken up, Ihad been sleeping in another
room, and she started showing mepictures of the basement, and my
(19:35):
brain was just going all overthe place because I'm look now
looking at pictures of where Iwas abused, and then they throw
me on the stand and start, youknow, arguing about semantics.
There were no locks on thedoors.
What are you talking about?
And you're lying, you weren'tlocked in a closet because
there's no locks on the doors.
(19:56):
And I'm my I couldn't even comecome up with a rational
reasoning of trying to explainthat if he put you in there, you
would be an absolute idiot toopen that door and walk out on
your own because he's gonna beatthe daylights out of you.
And so if he put you in there,you were locked in the closet.
(20:17):
I'm sorry that I used the wordlock when there were no locks on
the doors, but that's how itwas.
And but the whole time my brainwas just trying to, you know,
pull this information.
But the minute you start yellingat me or challenging me or
calling me a liar or all the allthese things that went on during
(20:39):
the trial, uh, survivors' brainsjust start, you know, going
haywire.
And so the whole trial itselfwas extremely traumatizing, but
I would never change it for aminute.
I am so, so grateful that Iwalked that that journey
because, you know, spoileralert, he was convicted.
(21:03):
And it was a tough conviction tosell because it's uh almost
eight years later.
And you know, I it was basicallymy testimony and others that
testified in my behalf versushim and his people testifying.
It was like, who do you believe?
(21:23):
And that's what won her thetrial was why would this
individual come in here, makethese claims, go through an
entire trial?
She's like, Was this fun foryou?
No, ma'am, this was not fun forme.
You know, I'm I'm not herebecause I'm bored.
And so she kind of when in herclosing argument explained that
(21:44):
to the jury as to who had moreto lose, who was who was facing
a bigger fallout.
And so, you know, the the jurysaw through all of the
manipulation and lies from histestimony and and really how
sincere I was, and the fact thatwhy would I be sitting here
explaining all this if not if itdidn't happen?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Well, right, plus your actual physical reaction to
some of the questioning.
Um and that's one thing that'sso frustrating about the
judicial system is the lack oftrauma-informed individuals who
are working there to understandwhat is happening to the victim.
I mean, if you go to therapy andyou have a therapist who's in a
(22:28):
room with it's just the two ofyou, and you are talking about
if we're going back to thismemory, you have a way to keep
yourself grounded to know whereyou are presently.
But in the courtroom, they'reasking you, I want you to go
back to that basement and I wantyou to detail everything while
he's sitting right there, andthen to not have any
(22:50):
understanding of why youwouldn't be able to think
clearly and why you would befreaking out.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Yes, I agree.
It was really, really tough.
And that is not the bestapproach at all for survivors.
And I've I was even asked tospeak to uh a college health and
human services abouttrauma-informed health care.
I mean, not to go down anotherdifferent rabbit hole, but that
(23:17):
in itself also is very difficultfor people who have been abused
to navigate the health systemand to deal with what that
brings.
And so both of those need to belooked, everything needs to be
looked at in terms oftrauma-informed for when you
know we have women, men,children who are that
(23:38):
traumatized.
And then you're expecting themto kind of perform normally, and
it just doesn't work out thatway in many instances.
Going to the grocery store canbe you know triggering for me.
Um, going into any kind ofcrowds or any any anything.
I mean, sounds, smells are veryoften triggering to me when I'm
(24:07):
out in public.
And I keep myself very secureand closed in because I
eliminate triggers that way.
And so just going to thedentist, I mean, I cancel my
appointments more times than Iactually show up because it's so
hard for me to get there and bein that in that type of
position.
(24:27):
It's horrible.
I mean, I'm just my hands aregripping the chair the whole
time.
I'm almost hyperventilating, andI'm just like, just get it done,
get it done.
And so there's a lot of thingsthat we don't think about when
people are abused at that levelof how they deal with just very
basic day-to-day life.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Right.
And even outside of thecourtroom, there's not very much
support in general forsurvivors, just the day-to-day,
a lot of individuals could lookat a survivor and question, like
how you were mentioning whywould you keep going back over
to that house instead of holdingthe perpetrator accountable for
(25:08):
why would you abuse a child?
It's why asking, why would achild go back to that house?
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
Right.
Yes.
Yeah, we always looked at wealways look at the victim first.
I don't know how we've gottenthere in society, but yeah, I
mean, I never asked for any ofthat.
It I came up upon ithappenstance.
I walked in on an ab on himabusing his daughter, and then
bam, I'm pulled into it.
Whether he was intending to pullme in before that or not, I have
(25:37):
no clue.
But I was I was pulled in beforeI even knew what was going on.
And before I could even think ofa way of getting myself out of
it, it was already too late.
I mean, he was threatening me.
He was threatening he wasthreatening in every possible
conceivable way.
And half the time they werecontradicting and it didn't even
(25:57):
make sense.
But I'm eight years old and I'mhave no clue what's going on.
And so, you know, it's we forgetwhat an eight-year-old mind is
doing.
And so to an adult, my returningto that house does seem insane.
But again, you're you're notthinking from an
(26:20):
eight-year-old's perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
Right.
Well, and then even in uhvictims of domestic violence as
adults, the the victim a lot oftimes will return back to their
abuser, and it's there's apsychological connection that
brings them back to it.
And even despite just beingquestioned of why would you stay
so long or why would you goback, there's always the
(26:42):
questions too of like, well, didthat really happen?
That sounds awfully exaggerated.
I mean, there's because and Iget it, as human beings, we
don't want to believe that otherhuman beings can do that to
another person.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
Right, right.
Yeah, but you're right.
The question should be, youknow, why is your husband
beating you?
Let's look at that first beforewe ask her and question her or
doubt her story.
It's like, why does he thinkit's okay that he knocks you
down because dinner was 10minutes late?
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
Exactly, exactly.
We need to start turning ourfocus more on the perpetrators.
Uh so you mentioned a secondbook.
What do you have a title of thesecond book?
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Yes, it's it's still called Carpenter Road, but it's
the inadmissible years, becauseeverything at trial, which is a
legal term, was inadmissible.
And so it is called CarpenterRoad, the inadmissible years,
and it does have a differentcover than the first one.
And so being that it's aprequel, I kept it very similar.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
That makes sense.
And so, like you discussed, thatone goes into more of what
happened when everythinginitiated, so the reader can
understand the grooming processmore, and it gives professionals
who work with children aninsight as to what clues to look
(28:08):
for in children who may begetting abused at home.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you read it, uh you willprobably be thinking to
yourself, what especially in mygrade school, what are those
teachers thinking?
What are they doing?
Why are they not helping her?
I mean, I came in withexcellent, I switched schools in
third grade, and that's how Imet the family.
(28:34):
And so coming into this school,I'm coming in with very good
academic records, attendance,and behavioral, no behavioral
issues at all.
Eight months later, I'm barelypassing any class.
I'm absent more than I'm there,and I have horrendous behavioral
issues within eight months ofstepping into that situation,
(28:57):
into that school, and not oneteacher tried to help me, tried
to reach out, tried to ask mequestions.
I was visibly bruised and inpain quite often.
You know, none of that wasaddressed.
And so that that was a reallyunfortunate situation, and um I
(29:21):
give all credit to when I wentinto high school that those
teachers um intervened.
It was really scary at firstbecause I wasn't used to it, and
I knew that it was gonna causesome sort of um exposure to what
was happening, which was mybiggest fear, which again is
(29:43):
part of that whole groomingsituation of what I'm thinking
of being caught is like theworst in the world, even though
I want out of the situationdesperately.
Getting caught was as worse asthe abuse itself.
And I give them all the creditfor you know, helping me get out
(30:03):
of the situation, um, making myfamily put me into therapy,
early intervention for therapy.
I I wouldn't be where I am todayhad the teachers at that school
stepped in.
But my grooming process wasviolent.
And I don't really I mean, Idon't know what the percent.
(30:24):
Are on grooming or abuse whenit's done in a way that's, you
know, very methodic and almostkind at the beginning.
You know, they're paying specialattention, they're giving them
treats, they're focusing on atalent that they might have.
Um, and they're kind of takingthem along the process of
(30:46):
ultimately when that line iscrossed.
In my situation, he was violentright from the beginning, but I
would still say that there was alot of grooming that took place
because I didn't have a cluewhat he was doing, and I didn't
understand for the longest timethat he would ask me questions
(31:09):
like, Where have you been?
And, you know, I'm I didn't knowif he meant five minutes ago or
if he meant a week ago.
I didn't I didn't understandwhat he was getting at.
But what he was ultimatelyteaching me was that I better
get my ass back over to thathouse as often as I can.
(31:31):
And when I'm summoned by myfriend, who I she was inviting
me to play, but really what thatmeant was you need to come over.
And it took me months to reallycomprehend that that's where he
was going with this.
That's what he was talkingabout, that's what he was
intending me to do.
Was that if I had a free night,a free day, whatever, I was
(31:54):
expected to be at their house.
And he beat me multiple timesover and over again for not
getting that.
And so I think my case was alittle extreme and maybe not the
norm, normal grooming type of aprocess, but it still was there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Did so did all six of his children attend the same
school as you?
SPEAKER_01 (32:19):
They did, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
Okay, and the teachers ignored the symptoms
from all of you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
Yes.
Um there were multiple occasionswhere one or many of us would
have visible bruising or marks.
Um, there were multipleoccasions where our behavior
should have been like completelya red flag that I think there's
something seriously wrong,especially when there was a
(32:49):
collection of at the school atany given time, there was
probably at most four of themthere at the same time because
of the age spread out.
But I know when I first startedthere, there was um four of
them.
One of them was so cognizedcognitively delayed because of,
I think, head trauma, uh, andbeing repeatedly held back.
(33:14):
I mean, and then uh the oldestboy would break down in absolute
hysterics for leaving his bootson the bus or leaving his boots
at school because he knew whenhe got home he was going to be
beaten for that.
And so all of us just shy ofhaving a sign across our bodies
(33:38):
that said, We are being horriblyabused, please help.
All everything was right there.
It it was so obvious, and it'snot obvious 30 years later, it
was obvious then, but it was forsome reason ignored.
And I would like an explanationfrom the school on why that was.
(34:03):
Um, I did at eighth grade mylast two weeks in that school.
Uh, we had an event because wewere graduating and I had a
massive meltdown, and my teacherwould not let me out of the room
until I told her why I was ho sohysterical.
(34:26):
And the only thing I could comeup with to say was I was
molested, which was so not whatyou would classify what was
happening, but that's all Icould muster out to say was I
was molested.
And it was like I never said it.
She's legally obligated toreport that nothing was done.
(34:51):
And then I tried to talk to herabout something else, like a
couple weeks later, right beforewe were to graduate, and she
barely looked at me, and when Isaid something to her, she just
got a very odd look on her faceand put her head back down, like
I did not say a thing, and shewouldn't even address me
anymore.
And I just slumped out of theclass, and yeah, that was that
(35:16):
was my grade school experience.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
That's horrific.
I mean, talk about theopportunities where somebody
could change a trajectory ofyour life.
There were so manyopportunities.
And then they just you said thatyou had a fourth grade level
reading um ability.
Did they just continue to tomove you up despite that?
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
Yes, they sure did.
For I think for uh multiplereasons.
One, it was a private school.
So, you know, my my mom had akind of a say in that, unlike in
the public school systems, theysay, no, you're you are not
advancing.
You're not advancing.
In private schools, they can dowhat they want, and they just
(36:02):
kept advancing me.
I know one time my mom said, No,you're not holding her back, but
that was very early on, and Iwouldn't say I was in complete
uh doomsday with my academics atthat point, but she she did say
no, and they approached heranother year, and then after
(36:26):
that, they had no businessadvancing me.
And I also believe they didn'twant to hold me back because
they didn't want me in theirclass again.
I was horrible.
I was a horrible, horrible childonce this abuse started.
My behavior was such a massivered flag because of the stuff I
(36:47):
was doing.
I mean, today you would look ata child behaving that way and be
like, holy crap, who is abusingthat child?
You wouldn't say, is that childbeing abused?
You would say, Who is doing it?
And I was an awful, awfulstudent.
And I think they just kind ofkept pushing me, pushing me, and
pushing me because they didn'twant to deal with me.
(37:07):
They didn't want me to repeat.
And as a private school, theywere, you know, able to do that.
And by the time I was in seventhgrade, the teachers didn't even
give me textbooks.
They didn't even assign me thetextbooks.
They knew damn well I could notread them.
And so I was just allowed to sitin the back of the classroom.
(37:29):
If I kept myself under control,I could sit in the back of the
classroom and just do basicallywhatever I wanted because they
washed their hands of me at thatpoint by the seventh grade.
No textbooks at all.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
That's awful.
No, you went the high school youwent to is a different high
school than the family did.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Correct.
Yes, I went to I continued on tothe kind of like the next step
within the private schoolsystem.
I went to the private highschool and his family um went to
the community public school.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
Um, in your first Carpenter Road, you his daughter
comes to take the stand on hisbehalf.
And at that time, I think youmentioned that she was still
living at home with him.
Is that right?
That's correct.
Okay.
Do you have any idea what'shappened to any of the family
(38:32):
members since then?
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
I do.
And I and I, in the epilogue ofmy prequel, I'd go into what
happened to them, but uh it's amixed bag.
Um, the one that I spoke aboutwho was cognitively delayed due
to head trauma has passed at 45.
And not really sure how or why.
(38:57):
And then my friend um did herbest.
She never obviously dealt withher trauma at all.
I don't even, I think she's gotit so segregated in her mind
that I don't even think she isaware of it at times, but she
didn't um seek any help oranything.
(39:19):
She tried to do a military uhroute, but was ultimately
honorably discharged.
But due to mental healthreasons, they basically asked
her to leave.
And then uh when her own fatherwas released from prison after
20 years, she had a completemassive, massive mental
(39:43):
breakdown and unleashed hertrauma on everyone around her to
the point where it became a hugeproblem, to the point where uh
everyone around her wasquestioning what was going on
and could not understand whysome switch had flipped in her
mind and she was losing hermarbles.
(40:05):
And they hired a privatedetective because she was
unleashing such toxicity withinthe school system, within their
neighborhood, within herfriends' group.
They're all just looking around,going, what in the hell is going
on?
And they hired somebody tofigure it out, and they
backtracked it and found thetrial, found her father, found
(40:28):
me, and you know, asked if Iwould be willing to speak to
them about what possibly couldhave set her off.
And I said, Okay, they releasedhim, and then they ultimately
put him in the state she wasliving.
I think some distance was there,but put put him put him back in
her state, um, which again thatis explained in the first
(40:52):
carpenter road because um therewas a horrible trauma that
occurred after he went intoprison at the household.
And the mom took the rest of thechildren that were left and
moved out of state.
So then when he was releasedfrom prison, they put him down
in the same state as the rest ofthem, and it did not go well at
(41:15):
all.
But she has um, I would considerher dangerous at this point,
which makes me a little bitnervous releasing this next
book.
But yeah, she's she has uh Iwould say very closely mimicked
a lot of behaviors that she grewup with, and it's very
(41:36):
terrifying.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
And I suppose there's no legal way for anyone
to keep you updated on tabs ofwhere she is or what she's
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
Uh, I have an inside person that is um uh that no
longer leaves the house becauseof it.
So frightened, so terrified, sotraumatized by what my friend
unleashed she won't.
So I do stay loosely inconnection with one of them just
(42:10):
to kind of keep tabs on what'sgoing on.
Um, but yeah, it's it was areally bad situation.
I have a file about three inchesthick of everything that she
did, and she's so skilled and amaster manipulator that the
authorities didn't know who tobelieve.
They didn't be and also becausethe whole situation was so
(42:33):
insane as to what she was doingand what these people were
reporting was happening, theofficers and even even at the
school, they're like it it theycouldn't wrap their head around
it.
They didn't have the fullpicture, they didn't have the
whole story, and so theycouldn't wrap their head around
who was telling the truth.
(42:53):
And she is so skilled and and soconniving, and just probably one
of the best actresses I've everseen on this earth.
She had everyone just tossingtheir hands in the air, going,
What?
What we don't know who tobelieve, we don't know what to
think, we don't know what wedon't know what this is.
And so, again, there's anotherperfect example of someone who
(43:17):
didn't deal with what happenedto them, and now she's unleashed
it all on everyone around her.
SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
Yeah, and that's there's I always say there's a
ripple effect of any form ofabuse, especially when you're
talking about childhood trauma,because it just continues on.
Even when you heal your trauma,there's there's just so many
opportunities for other peopleto feel the effects of it, even
(43:43):
if it's not direct effect.
But oh my gosh, this is like ahuge example of that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
Yes, absolutely.
It really is, even more so thanmy my mom.
I mean, what she's what she'sdone, and I don't feel
comfortable going into thatbecause like I said, they're
they're they're still dangerous.
And even though uh we'reseparated by many states, I she
she's uh very unpredictable.
SPEAKER_00 (44:10):
Now your abuser was it I don't know if I'm
remembering this correctly.
He was not allowed to live inthe same county as you.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Right.
That was a condition of hisparole to me, that he would not
be released back into mycommunity.
However, at the last minute,they went back on that.
And then I put up an absolutehuge fit and involved the media
because um we had quit jobs, wehad sold our house, we were
(44:42):
moving back to where I grew up,where it happened, only because
I felt safer in my hometown, inmy community, my family, my
friends, all my people thatsupported me during the trial.
I mean, I knew everyone becauseit's a small town and I felt
(45:03):
safe, safer being back in thiscommunity if he was going to be
out.
And then they said, Well, wedon't have anywhere to put him,
no one will take him.
Uh, we don't know what to do.
We're gonna have to put him backin your county.
And I said, The hell you are,and I went nuts and was like,
(45:24):
no, and I I got everyoneinvolved back in when you could,
you know, barely internet days,and involved the media, and they
put so much pressure on theDepartment of Corrections that
they all of a sudden foundanother solution.
But it was to put him back outof it was to put him out of
state, back where his family hadfled to because of what happened
(45:50):
after the trial.
Um, they fled the county, andnow they're getting a knock on
their door, and they're like,guess what?
We're putting him here with youguys.
And I don't think they had achoice in the matter.
I don't know a lot of details onthat, but yeah, that that was a
mess upon his even upon hisrelease, it was a mess.
(46:12):
And I got so screwed over inthat situation too.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
I mean, this is just another perfect example of
taking care of the perpetratormore than the victim.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Yes, it sure was.
Yeah, and they told me someoneof his caliber would not be
released back into society, andI'm like, oh, thank God.
And then all of a sudden, nope,you know, we've got overcrowding
prisons, so here he comes.
Welcome him back into society.
And he did not follow theconditions of his parole as you
(46:44):
should have, and no one refused,and no one, everyone refused to
to deal with it and lock himback up because you know why
would we want to go to thetrouble of dealing with that
again and then start paying forhim to be incarcerated?
But he put in a visitationrequest to my friend, and he's
(47:08):
not allowed to be aroundchildren, he's not allowed to be
near schools, nothing.
And on the form, are there anychildren in the house?
No.
There was a 10-year-olddaughter.
To me, that's a violation of hisparole to try to seek visitation
with his daughter, who has a10-year-old in the home, who
(47:32):
he's not allowed to be around,and then lie about it on the
form, and yet he was nothinghappened.
His parole should have beenrevolt.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:46):
Yeah.
Um so when you were when yousaid placing him somewhere, were
did he get placed into a home,like a some kind of home-based
parole sort of situation?
SPEAKER_01 (47:59):
He was placed back with family in that in South
Carolina.
SPEAKER_00 (48:05):
Like in their home?
SPEAKER_01 (48:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:08):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, and I and I don't know.
Why can't he just go?
Why can't they just put himsomewhere else?
Like, why does he have to be intheir home?
SPEAKER_01 (48:18):
I don't know.
I was not involved in all ofthat, and that is the and that
is like people don't maybetotally understand that once you
become incarcerated, you becomebasically property of Department
of Corrections.
And Department of Correctionsoperates very differently and
siloed from like the the rest ofthe judicial system where the
(48:40):
prosecuting attorneys deal withit, where you're sentenced,
where you're tried, all of that.
Once Department of Correctionstakes over, they make the
decisions and they do what theywant.
And that is where you knoweverything went wrong upon his
release.
First of all, they released himand they shouldn't have.
(49:01):
And second of all, um he alreadyhad one uh situation uh where
his daughter was basicallykidnapped and raped by his
cellmate that had been released,and they didn't they refused to
connect the dots on that.
(49:22):
That was not a coincidence, thatwas not happenstance, that was
to prove a point, so theyignored that, then they released
him, which was another mistake,under the conditions they would
not put him back where I was,and they went back on that, and
then they forced family inanother state to take him.
(49:42):
I don't know how that you knowtranspired.
Um, but ultimately his son thatpassed away at 45 was in the
home with him, and I, you know,I can only imagine what that was
like, and do not have a cause ofdeath on that young man, but
nonetheless, being back in thathome with him had to be
(50:05):
horrific.
And yeah, the Department ofCorrections just they just do
what they want and they do not,absolutely, unequivocally, do
not take the survivors intoaccount at all.
They could care less.
It's bottom line dollar.
Get this man out, save us thismoney, and we don't care where
(50:28):
he goes or what he does again.
And no one's really looking atholding, you know, Department of
Corrections accountable for someof these people that they're
releasing back into society, oreven the judges.
SPEAKER_00 (50:41):
My God.
And let's let's either put himback in the county of the woman
who put him in prison or hisfamily.
Either way, he's abusedeveryone.
Everyone.
Yes.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Yeah, it's like I I sit back and I think, God, I I
wish I was this intelligent andgifted to make this all up.
Because I mean, how do you can'tmake this shit up?
It's insane.
The stuff that happened at thetrial, after the trial, 20 years
later, 30 years later, it'sstill happening within this
(51:19):
family unit.
And it is completely insane.
I mean, I I tell the story and Ithink, good lord, I can't even
hardly believe it myselfsometimes that what's all
transpired over all these yearsfrom the very beginning.
It's just, I mean, people wentmissing, people died.
I mean, uh, people uh ofsomebody that testified for me
(51:43):
and and witnessing him abusinghis children, ultimately they
found a way to turn him in foruh you know, farmers sometimes
say they may have planted thismany acres and yielded this much
acreage, and those numbers don'talways match up.
(52:04):
And then the government kind ofhelps them with that.
Well, they knew somebody whoknew somebody, and the next
thing you know, one of thewitnesses from the trial is
going to jail when they all doit.
SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Okay, so now we can seek justice.
SPEAKER_01 (52:19):
Yeah, I mean, and then one of the witnesses
disappeared.
I mean, it it like no one couldfind him.
And it the stuff that happenedduring that whole entire time is
just and it makes you understandwhy I'm so paranoid and fearful
of you know everything aroundme, because I watched all of
(52:43):
this unfold right down to wherehis cellmate was released and
came back to his house and didthat to the 14-year-old
daughter.
I mean, it's it's just scarystuff.
SPEAKER_00 (52:55):
Well, yeah, and this this part reinforces the fact of
a child being afraid ofrepercussions for telling.
So you know that child keepsgoing back to the house because
the consequences of not goingback to the house are too severe
and too scary to fathom.
And it's and it's come tofruition.
(53:17):
Like he has come through onthreats and uh with people
missing and his daughter beingattacked from his former
cellmate.
SPEAKER_01 (53:26):
Yes, yes.
Everyone that testified on hisbehalf, every one of them said
he is a man of his word, whichwas a hilarity because that's
what we were saying during theentire courtroom trauma drama
was he is a man of his word.
If he gave you a threat, it wasnot idle, it would be carried
(53:50):
out, and he did that throughouthis entire life with his
friends, his family, hischildren.
And he was really alwaysconsidered, you know, very
volatile and dangerous.
And you know, if you crossedhim, you were gonna learn the
hard way because he was a man ofhis word.
SPEAKER_00 (54:11):
My goodness.
Um, okay, Morgan, is thereanything you think that we did
not touch on?
My mind is reeling.
I don't know that I can thinkstraight.
I have to leave this up to you.
SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
I know it's like uh it's like a 10-episode Netflix
series.
It's so insane.
It just so deep and goes so farback and is so deep, it's really
hard to wrap your head around insuch a short time because so
much happened to me, to hisfamily, and then all of the
(54:45):
fallout afterwards.
But no, I don't I don't knowwhat else we can touch on other
than um I I really would like toaddress maybe um how and what
we're doing to help children umsee the red flags of grooming.
(55:06):
Because we did we did that wholebad touch, good touch for a long
time, and that was a hugedisservice because once you're
touched, it's too late.
So why are we teaching kids?
You know they're being groomed,leading up to the to the point
where they're then the line iscrossed.
(55:26):
So why are we not backing up andteaching about what grooming
looks like in all scenarios tochildren?
And and and also I'm not in theschool system that much, and I
don't, you know, I I don't knowmuch about what is taught and
(55:47):
not being taught, but it seemslike we've kind of gotten away
from dealing with abuse andhaving those after-school
special seminars at school thatsay, hey, you know, this is what
to watch out for, this is whatyou need to report, this is you
know, this is what you do.
And that we seem to have gottenaway from that, but I would
(56:09):
really like us to um bring back,you know, some educational
services for the children aboutgrooming.
What does grooming look what isgrooming?
What does it look like?
Who might be the culprit?
Who might be the targetedindividual?
(56:29):
Um and and then go over allscenarios of what grooming can
look like amongst differenttypes of populations and really
help children because childrenare extremely intelligent, very
perceptive, they miss verylittle, and so we can very
easily teach them when someonestarts singling you out, um, you
(56:54):
know, maybe talk to your parentabout that.
But we're we're just kind oflike I don't know, we've just
dropped the whole topic and arenot helping kids understand what
happens when a pedophile zeroesin on you.
What does that look like fromthe very first interaction?
(57:14):
And I would love to bring thatback into our culture and say,
hey, this is what it looks like,this is what you need to do.
And at all costs, you know, makesure you inform somebody.
Um that that would be I would Iwould really like to see that
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (57:33):
I agree with you.
I think that uh, you know, we'rein a society where the I mean,
we talk about a lot of things,but we also don't want like to
talk about a lot of things.
So things that make usuncomfortable, like pedophiles,
the fact that children areabused by people that they are
familiar with, that it's notjust a stranger all the time who
(57:53):
sweeps them away and abusesthem.
And it's a it's veryuncomfortable to think about.
It's uncomfortable to thinkabout teenage violence or
domestic violence, all of thesetopics that people don't want to
talk about, or they'll hear alittle snippet and say, like,
okay, okay, yeah, yeah.
I hear what you're saying.
Let's move on to something else.
It's uncomfortable for everyone.
But if we don't talk about thethings that are uncomfortable,
(58:17):
then nothing gets changed.
Everybody's able to continue tosweep these topics under the
rug.
So yeah, I completely agree withyou.
I think we need to talk more,especially to children.
That's where a lot of thisstarts at.
SPEAKER_01 (58:31):
Right.
And the fallout is on ourchildren when we don't talk
about these topics and whenwe're not discussing them.
And it's it's devastatingbecause the reality is stranger
abduction or strangermolestation or rape is quite
rare, but that's all we see ondatelines and ABC 2020 and uh
(58:56):
you know Netflix documentaryseries, are these instances
where uh an unknown individualkidnaps or or uh hurts a child,
but those are really rare.
And most children are abused bysomebody they know, and it
(59:17):
started with a a very basicgrooming process, and and then
just starts to kind of escalatefrom there.
And if we can intervene withchildren and educating them
about what that looks like, Ithink we could make a huge
difference for kids.
SPEAKER_00 (59:37):
And I I mean, I'm so obviously I'm so grateful that
somebody did intervene with youwhen you were 14 and you started
to find all these advocates, butit's it's also just so
heartbreaking to hear of theintervention coming late, you
know.
And I again I agree with youthat these interventions, let's
start the interventions beforesomething happens.
(01:00:00):
Instead of being reactive andcleaning up whatever trauma has
occurred, let's do something tostop it from happening in the
first place.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Yes, I think we're the most reactive society on
this planet.
We we don't we don't learn fromour mistakes, we don't make the
necessary changes.
Um we're very Very reactionary.
It's really frustrating and sadbecause so much so many things
could be prevented.
(01:00:32):
I cannot wrap my head around whywe're not doing it.
I mean, I it and you can't evensay it's money because what it
costs society to have all of useither on disability or in rehab
or whatever is way more costlythan if we were putting
(01:00:54):
preventative measures in place.
It would cost a lot less to dothat.
And I just can't understand forthe life of me why as a society
we choose not to go that route.
I just I wish somebody couldexplain it to me because I have
no clue.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:10):
Same.
Same.
Um okay, so Morgan, how dopeople get your books?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:18):
Well, I'm I published it through Amazon, and
through Amazon you can order itin hardcover and paperback and e
and I finally did a uh I had Ireleased it in an Audible.
It is it is a generate AIgenerated read, but it's not too
(01:01:41):
bad.
Um but uh the you're alsoallowed to find it on Nook
through Barnes and Noblewebsites.
You can order it, Apple, umpretty much everywhere.
But to actually purchase aphysical copy, um, it's probably
easiest to go to Amazon.
(01:02:03):
I have a lot of local bookstoresthat carry it, but um globally
Amazon would be your best bet.
But I recommend readingCarpenter Road Set in Silence
first and and then read thesecond one as it was intended,
but you they're standalone, youdon't have to.
Um, but you get the the fullstory when you read both of
(01:02:24):
them, no matter which order, butyou'll get the whole picture.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:27):
Okay.
And the second book again isCarpenter Road.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:30):
The inadmissible.
It's a legal term and it is amouthful.
Um, but that that is why I wasnot allowed to talk about 80% of
what happened to me.
It was inadmissible.
And I was like, are you guyscrazy?
I mean, the the whole story, youknow, revolved around my needing
(01:02:55):
to disclose what happened toeveryone in the household
because otherwise it it reallydidn't make sense.
I mean, I'm sure the jury wassitting there going, what in the
hell is going on?
Because, you know, nothing wasallowed to be talked about.
And so I titled it theinadmissible years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:14):
Okay, perfect.
And before we close, do you haveany parting words of
encouragement or just uh animportant message to take away?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:25):
I I saw somewhere a phrase that I've kind of adopted
because I loved it, but shamemust change sides.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:33):
I loved that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:34):
Yeah, I did too.
And it's not mine, and I saw itand I quote unquote borrowed it,
but shame must change sides.
And the the shame victims feel,or survivors, however you want
to say that, is so astronomicalthat it's suffocating.
The shame is just absolutelysuffocating to us as survivors,
(01:03:57):
and it must change sides becausewe don't own it.
We didn't put it upon us, wedidn't ask for it, but yet
that's what keeps the statisticsso high is the shame people feel
from being abused that theyeither don't talk about it,
don't report it, pretend itnever happened in my friend's
(01:04:19):
case.
I mean, she she doesn't evenacknowledge she was abused, even
30 years later.
And the shame and stigma that isplaced upon us from the minute
we're touched does not belong tous.
And survivors need to let thatgo and put that back onto the
(01:04:40):
perpetrator because it belongsto the perpetrator who thought
it was okay to cross that lineand then damage us forever.
But I have to say to survivors,it it doesn't belong to us.
Go ahead and send it right backover to the perpetrator.
It's not ours.
And I really, really encourageothers to try to do the best
(01:05:05):
they can to heal in whatever waypossible because we owe that to
ourselves.
We deserve that, we deserve tobe whole and shame free and feel
that we are lovable because weare, and those are just messages
that the perpetrator puts uponus in order to keep us in line,
(01:05:26):
and it doesn't belong to us, itneeds to go back to the other
side.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:30):
I agree, and that's such a powerful message.
Thank you so much, Morgan, foryour time and your books and
your message and coming on heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:39):
Oh, you're absolutely welcome, and I thank
you for listening and having me,and I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:47):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you again, Morgan, forjoining me today, and thank you,
Warriors, for listening.
I've included links to PurchaseMorgan's books as well as her
one in three profile in the shownotes.
I will be back next week withanother episode for you.
Until then, stay strong, andwherever you are in your
(01:06:08):
journey, always remember you arenot alone.
Find more information, registeras a guest, or leave a review by
going to the website one andthreepodcast.com.
That's the number one, I and thenumber three podcast.com.
Follow one and three onInstagram, Facebook, and Twitter
(01:06:30):
at one and three podcast.
To help me out, please rememberto rate review and subscribe.
One and three is a point fivePanoy production.
Music written and performed byTim Crow.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.