October 23, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the cure for loneliness isn’t more scrolling, but a bigger story and a closer community? We welcomed Pastor Bob Martin from College Park Church to talk candidly about a decade of singleness, the unexpected grace of a pre-breakup, and the slow, steady practices that turn waiting into deep formation. Bob unpacks the “already and not yet” reality of the Kingdom, why embodied church life matters in an AI-saturated age, and how simple invitations can change a spiritual trajectory.
We explore the most common pain point singles face, loneliness and the constellation of cures that actually help: gathered worship that widens your horizon, small groups where prayer is real, weekly rhythms that tame hurry, and a counterintuitive practice of solitude that lets God speak identity into the quiet. Bob reframes dating as service, not self-fulfillment, and challenges men and women alike to leave people better than they found them. He also dismantles a few myths: singleness is not a single story, there’s no “just do this” fix, and marriage isn’t a higher tier of holiness. Scripture dignifies both callings and roots intimacy in a family of faith.
If you’re preparing for marriage, Bob’s counsel is disarming and practical: YOU bring YOU into the covenant. Start practicing the lifestyle of Jesus NOW, patience, humility, and faithful presence, so the front door of your wedding day opens into a home shaped by Christ’s character. We close with resources for finding community and next steps you can take this week: invite a friend to church, commit to one act of service, and set aside an hour of quiet time with God.
Enjoy the conversation? Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review to help others find their way to a stronger community and a deeper love.
Bob's Church: https://www.yourchurch.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Renee Richel (00:07):
Hi, I'm Renee Richel, the founder and
president of 1 True Match.
I'm here to help you find andcultivate the love of your life.
For over a decade, I'vededicated my life to the
importance, purpose, and dynamicof human relationships.
My team and I are disciplinedby faith, love, and integrity to
help our clients find thequality relationship they've
(00:28):
always dreamt of.
Each week, I will be sharingthe tools and tips I've learned
that have rooted my success as amatchmaker with other leaders
around the world.
Hello, loves.
I am so excited to welcome avery special guest, Bob Martin,
(00:49):
number four, is a pastor atCollege Park Church in
Indianapolis.
He also is a co-founder of BinMin, an online resource ministry
helping youth, young adultsfind their next step in their
spiritual life.
I love that.
I love that.
Bob has a bachelor's degree inbiblical studies from Viola
(01:13):
University in California and amaster's of divinity degree from
Trinity Evangelical DivinitySchool.
He has over a dozen years ofpastoral experience in various
ministry areas from children toseniors, which is our entire
spectrum of who we work with.
(01:34):
And he lives in urbanIndianapolis with his two
precious daughters and his wifeof nine years, who he met at
church.
Welcome, Bob.
Pastor Bob Martin (01:47):
Thank you so much, Renee.
I'm really glad to be here.
Renee Richel (01:50):
We're so excited to dive into what I feel our
audience is starving here inthis pastor uh series that we
are interviewing and talking todifferent pastors that are
really giving our community uhsupport, encouragement, the
latest of what's happening outthere in a world that is taking
(02:11):
us so far from actual going inface-to-face time with churches
and fellowship that's taking usto the convenience of online,
which we love when we can't bethere.
Um, but how much biblically itmatters that we're in fellowship
together, worshiping ourChrist, our Lord, in every walk
(02:32):
of our life that gives us thepeace that we all need way more
in an AI world we live in today.
Pastor Bob Martin (02:38):
Amen to that.
Renee Richel (02:40):
So I want to dive in and start off with just
asking some questions, and thenI'm sure we're just gonna go off
track and just talk throughwhatever God wants us to also
share.
Pastor Bob Martin (02:49):
Beautiful.
Yeah, let's do it.
I love it.
Renee Richel (02:51):
All right, so can you share a bit of your personal
journey, testimony, how youwere called into ministry and
how your relationship with Godhas evolved over the years?
Pastor Bob Martin (03:04):
Yeah, so I had the privilege of growing up
primarily in a Christianhousehold.
My parents came to Christ uhafter they were married, had a
couple little kids, and uh Jesustransformed everything.
They grew up listening to benice sermons, didn't really
understand that Jesus was thesavior, they needed to put their
faith in him.
So they did when I was little,grew up, got the chance to go to
Christian school most of my wayup, and had the very ironic
(03:27):
experience when I was in highschool, going to a Christian
school, of being in a preachingcompetition.
Oh, which is not something manypeople can say that they've
done.
Renee Richel (03:35):
No.
Pastor Bob Martin (03:36):
Um, and probably if you're in it to win
it, like you shouldn't, right?
You shouldn't be that guy.
Um, so God used that to justsay, Man, Bob, I may be wooing
you into a calling here.
And I just got to say, God, ifI could do anything with my
life, I would love to sink myteeth deeply into your word, be
transformed by it first, andthen just get to communicate
(03:57):
your word to others so theycould be transformed too.
As you can imagine, that's apretty big thing to receive from
the Lord when you're ateenager.
Yeah.
Um, so I know lots of us haveexperiences where God's kind of
stepped in and done somethingsignificant in our life and our
teens, but that's at atrajectory so that I traveled
2,000 miles from home, went toCalifornia for college, for
(04:18):
Bible college, loved it, lovedmy time out there in training,
then came back to the Midwest,north of Chicago for seminary,
was there for three and a halfyears, continuing this training
and this path, and God just keptaffirming a ministry calling.
But while he was affirming myministry calling, he was also
allowing me to go through thecrucible of singleness.
Um because all throughout thattime, throughout college,
(04:41):
throughout graduate school, andeven into my kind of young
professional time, where Ilanded as sort of an intern on
steroids, it was a residency, atwo-year experience at a larger
church in Indianapolis, where Istill am now, spoiler alert.
Um he allowed me to walk thisjourney of going, hey Bob, like
there's a lot of things thatmight be blessed in your life
(05:01):
with ministry or your walk withme, but I'm choosing not to yet
give you your one person.
Will you still trust me?
Will you still be faithful?
How will you cry out to meinstead of going to other things
to cope with the loneliness,the anxiety, the struggles?
So for any of us who've walkeda journey of singleness for any
amount of years, I think we canrelate to the fact that God may
(05:24):
be doing more than one thing inour life at a time, right?
Right.
And so there's always piecesthat there's a struggle, there's
there's a challenge, and how dowe take that part of our life
and surrender it to the Lord?
Or frankly, when we fail, andand I have regrets in my
journey, how do we take thosethings and say, I'm not a
perfect person and I'm not afailure, I'm a gospel person.
(05:46):
So when I do mess up, when I dofail, when I do go to an idol
or a bad relationship orsomething that I choose instead
of Jesus, how does he thenreceive me again, give me his
forgiveness, give me hisunconditional love, pick me back
up, and remind me of theidentity I really have, which is
more than just a pastor, morethan just someone called the
ministry, or more than justsomeone in another calling, but
(06:08):
it's his child, his son.
So, all that to say, um, Iended up planting in a larger
sized church, about 3,000 pluspeople on the north side of
Indianapolis.
Indianapolis is one of thebigger cities in the States.
I think it's maybe the 16thbiggest in the US, which
surprises a lot of people.
Um, and it felt like home tome.
I loved sinking in in the city,but also in the church, because
(06:31):
this happened to be a churchthat had a group of single
people.
Um, it had been going foryears.
There had been a lay elder whohad planted it like a decade
before, and it continued tothrive.
And part of that.
Yeah, being connected to alarger urban center.
And so I plugged into thatministry, not just to lead, but
because I needed it in my life.
I was in I was in my mid andlate 20s, and I said, Man Lord,
(06:52):
I don't want to waste thisdecade or plus of my life.
I want to follow Jesus and Iwant to find community.
So God in his grace allowed meto continue in that, eventually
start leading that ministry.
And we we can double-click intothis if you want, but how do
you how do you lead a ministrywhere your flock is also your
fishing pond?
Renee Richel (07:09):
Right, right.
Because you are not supposed toventure out for your own gain
when it comes to that when youare at church.
Pastor Bob Martin (07:16):
That is that is a sticky situation, right?
Uh, you don't want to mess thatup and you don't want to mess
people up.
Um, so God walked me throughthat journey, and then um I
actually at church, I had I haddone all kinds of things for
dating um in person, um, peopledoing matchmaking, had used all
kinds of different online tools,um, apps, um, going online,
(07:38):
like all this sort of stuff.
So grateful that we are in thisseason of life where those
tools are available to us, wherewe just I may not know who I
don't know.
Renee Richel (07:45):
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (07:46):
Um and then God, for my story, happened to
put my wife in our church.
She came to that church.
I got to know her, build thatrelationship, and eventually we
ended up dating for a year plus,getting married, um, and then I
was um 31 when we got married.
Um, so I walked a whole decadeof at least my 20s, single.
And now he's been gracious toallow us to be married for about
(08:07):
nine or so years, have twobeautiful daughters.
Um but the more important partof that story than just the fact
that God decided to bring aspouse was his work within me to
say, even in ministry, and soagain, I've been at this church
now 13 plus years.
Um, I've done all kinds ofministry stuff.
I've led small groups, I've ledsingles ministry, I've done a
lot of different things.
I've had up membership, whichis my role now, encouraging
people to come in the front doorof the church and be all in.
(08:29):
Um but the more important thingis God over time does a work to
make us the person he wants tomake us.
More than he just wants to giveus a job or a career, and more
than he just wants to give us aspouse or a dream person.
He's doing a deeper work withinus.
So I think that's what I'm mostgrateful for.
Renee Richel (08:50):
Which I love to hear you say that, because I
always tell everybody it's thetrust journey while you're
single, and we like to keep oursingles occupied with our trust
in the Lord instead of focusingso much on finding that person.
Now, as a matchmaking company,you think, well, wait a second,
isn't that what you're trying todo?
And we are.
However, we have found ourclients that are matched sooner.
(09:14):
And I'm saying this to all myaudience out there, it is in the
waiting season.
The ones that are matchedsooner are going through what we
put them through this journeyof discovering their DNA with
God, who they are today, fromutero to today, to come up with
a highlight reel to share theirstory with their one true match
(09:37):
when it's got its perfecttiming.
And so, you know, we always sayI always say there's two sides
of the coin, right?
Your side, his side, and thenJesus, the glue together, right?
And so when you're single, youhave to also be available to
allow somebody to come into yourworld that could be taller
(09:59):
opposite and accept andcompromise and all these things.
And if you're not truly ready,like if God had to do this work
for you, then that person isnever gonna come into your life.
Pastor Bob Martin (10:10):
Yeah, how many stories there are?
Renee Richel (10:12):
Yes, through courses, through training, all
the things that we have, itreally, really helps to prepare
and equip you for like when youmet your lovely wife that walked
in your front church door.
Pastor Bob Martin (10:26):
That's right.
Renee Richel (10:27):
So I love that.
I love that.
Okay, love all right.
Um, how do you define kingdomwork in your own life?
Pastor Bob Martin (10:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's reallythis beautiful, mysterious thing
when you read the gospels andyou hear Jesus talking about the
kingdom.
He says these things like, thekingdom of heaven is at hand,
the kingdom of God is near.
And um, maybe one of the mostaccurate synopses that like
(10:57):
Bible scholars describe thekingdom as is this phrase,
already but not yet.
Jesus has inaugurated, he hasbrought the kingdom of God to
earth.
And he's doing that by givinghis spirit inside real flesh and
blood people, gatheringtogether people into local
churches that represent hislarger church.
This is the embassy of thekingdom, right?
(11:18):
Yeah.
Almost like a new little gardenof Eden, that's where his
kingdom is breaking in.
But then it's also not yet,because as we know, as we
experience the brokenness oflife, both within us and outside
of us, there will be a greatday when he will bring that
perfect kingdom.
So if that's the kingdom,right, wherever God fully reigns
through Jesus by his spirit,then what is the work, right?
(11:39):
What is the kingdom work thatwe're called to do?
And I would say that it is umone, living out God's image,
because that's what he hascreated us to be, right?
You look in Genesis 1, 27 and28, and he said, Man, it's it's
not good for man to be alone.
I'll make him a helper fit forthem, I'll put them together,
we'll gather them in a communityjust like I am a triune
(12:00):
community.
We're made for that, and weimage him in so many ways in the
world, but then we do that aswe we love God, we love other
people, right?
That's Jesus' summary of thegreatest commandment, and the
second one that's like it, andthen we go on his great
commission into the world at theend of the Gospel of Matthew,
Matthew 28, go and makedisciples.
So, in some ways, you can thinkof it this way Um I've I've
(12:24):
heard a pastor say this beforethat the great commandment,
right?
Love God and love others, andthe great commission to go and
make disciples is impossiblewithout the great invitation.
And that's where Jesus says,Come to me, all who labor and
are heavy laden, and I will giveyou rest.
(12:46):
Take my yoke upon you and learnfrom me, from gentle and humble
in heart, and you'll find restfor your souls.
So, what a gracious savior wehave if the work he's calling us
to do is even rest in him.
He's the one we work through.
Renee Richel (13:02):
Yes.
And on that, talking about theinvite we were talking about
earlier before we startedrecording this.
How I want to put this outthere to all of my audience, I
encourage you, if not everyweek, every other because I'm
all about challenges, becausewe'll actually do it when
there's a challenge, to inviteone to three people to church
(13:23):
with you.
I usually come in with multipledifferent people and they're
like, who's this new person?
I'm like, oh well, I justcollected them, right?
Because I think the biggestthing if I didn't have in all
the different cities I've livedin, somebody invite me or walk
in confidently, like with asmile and a greeting team, you
wouldn't be in the churches thatyou are today.
And it takes a village, right?
(13:44):
So encourage and invite otherpeople because interviewing a
bunch of people that we do on adaily basis, I find some people
that just don't have a church,and that's why they're not
going.
And that is our job asChristians to invite them to sit
with you, pray with them, doGod's work.
Pastor Bob Martin (14:00):
Can I, Renee, can I back you up as a pastor?
Please do.
Renee Richel (14:04):
Please do.
Pastor Bob Martin (14:04):
I was gonna say that so I get to be a pastor
of membership.
So that means my role is just arecognition that God's already
doing work in the lives ofpeople.
And when they come into thelife of the church, when they
come in those front doors, likeyou mentioned, we want to make
it as easy, as clear, and ashelpful for them to find
community.
So, like my dream, myheartbeat, my desire for you, as
you're listening, as you'rewatching, would be that you'd
(14:27):
step into a local church, notjust because you have to, not
just because it's duty, not justbecause that's what your
parents might have told you todo, or hey, that's just what an
A told you to do.
But because that's where you'llfind a trusted community that
one will support hopefully yourromantic journey and say, yeah,
this is good.
This is God's picture.
And more.
They'll say, and we're even abigger community that's
(14:50):
multi-generational.
We have different maritalstatuses, and we want to enfold
you and your friends, yourneighbors, your coworkers into
this spiritual community becausewhat do we all want?
Deep intimacy and community.
And God's just happened toalready build a thing for us
that's intergenerational,diverse, messy, and it's called
his local church.
Renee Richel (15:11):
Yeah, it's so true.
And I always say, God wants usto give him something to work
with.
So we have to be out and about.
Nothing is gonna fall on ourlap, sitting on our couch inside
a room, thinking it's gonnahappen online.
It's not like go be out incommunity, right?
I love it.
Okay, so in your experience,what are some of the most common
(15:34):
spiritual or emotionalchallenges singles face today,
and how should the church speakinto those individuals?
Pastor Bob Martin (15:43):
Boy, yeah, that's that's real.
That's real, Renee.
Um I think that the top of mylist is loneliness.
Renee Richel (15:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (15:51):
Um, I know that um I don't know if there
was a day that went by in mysingleness that loneliness was
not just banging on the door ofmy heart.
And um that's where I thinkI've found both.
I don't want to paint an unfairpicture because that's also one
of the things.
So loneliness is not a sin,it's a struggle, right?
(16:12):
It's a form of suffering.
In fact, I think it's easy totell some people who are
suffering because they're in ahospital bed or maybe they're in
a wheelchair, right?
Those physical sufferings wecan see, but I think loneliness
is a type of relationalsuffering.
So it can be invisible, and youdon't necessarily see it in
somebody when you walk next tothem in the street, see them in
(16:33):
the workplace, or over a Zoomcall, or even in a church seat.
But is it something that we canactually resolve?
Is it something that Godactually wants to work with?
And I would say this (16:42):
I don't think that there's one silver
bullet for loneliness.
I think there's a constellationof cures that God wants for us.
That if we put these differentpieces together, two things can
happen.
One, we can actually find somefreedom from some of our
loneliness.
That it doesn't have to beevery Friday night that we're
just like angsty and struggling,right?
Renee Richel (17:03):
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:03):
And, but not just freedom, right?
We still live on this side ofGod's kingdom fully coming.
Now, there's not always gonnabe freedom.
There's some days where just,hey, I do feel kind of lonely
right now.
And you can acknowledge them,walk through that feeling.
So we don't just find freedomfrom loneliness, but we can find
formation in our loneliness.
Jesus was lonely.
Look at the Garden ofGethsemane, right?
(17:24):
Like Jesus experienced that toodeeply, these deep emotions, so
they're good.
So, all that to say, I thinkthat there's multiple things
that can help us with this realpresent struggle that most of us
feel with loneliness on aregular week.
And I think the church plays acritical part in that for a
couple things.
Can I maybe say a couple ofparts that could help with that?
Renee Richel (17:43):
Yes, please.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:45):
One of them I think is story.
I think it's so easy for me tocope, I'll just talk about
myself here for a second, withuh um over-entertainment and
internet comparison.
Renee Richel (17:57):
Yes.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:58):
And what happens when I look at too much
entertainment, and what happenswhen I look at too much
internet, especially otherpeople's lives, is I'm tempted
to believe a smaller story.
My story is just all aboutcrushing it at work.
My story is all about myfitness.
My story is all about comparingmy vacations to this other
person's vacations.
And the problem with that isisn't the vacations or fitness
(18:20):
or something else isn't, mightnot be good.
It's that it's not the fullpicture.
It's not a big enough story.
And so what happens is I justneed Sundays.
I need Sundays and I need thedrip of God's work and his
presence in my life every day,Monday through Saturday.
But what happens specificallyin the life of God's church is
I'm exposed to the bigger story.
And it says, What's the bigthing God's doing in the world
(18:42):
that I get to be a part of?
That I'm unconditionally lovedby the maker of all things,
who's working his perfect planuntil his kingdom comes so
there's no more tears, and hisspirit will never leave me, but
will powerfully work in me dayby day, right?
So that story, that's why weget to worship and hear other
people worshiping next to us,right?
Not just on a screen.
(19:02):
That's where we get to be in asmall group and hear other
people's struggles and ourstruggle too, and we get to
pray.
And prayer is amazing andtransformative.
So I think it helps us withstory, and I think it also helps
us with our practices, right?
It helps us figure out a rhythmof life that isn't based on
being too busy with a billionthings, or just working
(19:23):
ourselves to death, or alwayschasing the person, the one.
Renee Richel (19:27):
Right.
Right?
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (19:28):
That can build our rhythm.
So we're just chasing andrunning like the little rabbits
I find in my backyard that aredigging through, you know,
different plants and stuff.
And it's like that's what myheart's tempted to be.
But when I sit in a church andI'm dialoguing with other
saints, I go, Oh, you're tryingto build a regular rhythm that's
human-sized and God focused.
You just spend simple time withGod every day, you spend some
(19:49):
time once a week having somesort of Sabbath experience to
slow down and rest in the Lord,and you make sure to fit worship
into your life.
Oh, I guess that's what it'sall about.
Renee Richel (19:58):
Yes.
And I love that you're allabout the story because I mean
that's what the churches arethere for.
Like, sign up for a Biblestudy, sign up for a male grill,
whatever, barbecue thing.
And like put yourself in thoseenvironments so that you're not
lonely, with the Lord, and somany of my singles, I'm like,
(20:19):
what are you complaining about?
When you're alone, it is themost easy personally for myself.
Special time that you spendwith God dating God, like or
Jesus, right?
So, like I have a telling whensingles will go through what
they're going through andthey're like, I just don't know.
I can't find anybody.
(20:39):
Everybody's like putting allthe pressure on me.
Like, tell them you're datingJesus right now.
And mean it.
Because as you know, once youget married and you have
children and you do what you do,they take time away from your
intimate time that you hadbefore in your loneliness when
it was just the two of you withJesus.
Pastor Bob Martin (20:58):
Yeah.
And I'll tell you, Renee, Ithink, I think there's two
practices that, like, as I'msingle, entering the life of the
church and figuring that out,that I think will really help
me.
One of them is um commitment.
And it's just saying, hey, letme just find a thing to commit
to in my church.
Maybe it's holding littlebabies in the nursery because
it's so sweet and I get to meetother people.
(21:18):
Maybe it's saying, hey, I'mgonna linger, you know, in the
foyer or the atrium afterwardand commit to 15 minutes just
hanging and talking to whoever'sthere, right?
Maybe it's a small group, butfind a thing and just do it.
Just commit to it, becausethat's when God's gonna work.
And you don't give yourself theout, right?
Right.
Second practice I would saythough is coaching, because this
(21:39):
is where you were getting to.
And that is not every I'm gonnabe honest here, right?
I've worked in church ministrylong enough and been a Christian
long enough to go, we geteasily misunderstood, right?
Yeah, whatever our story is,but certainly if my story is
that I'm single right now.
Like people just may not evenknow what the best question to
ask me is.
So what you get to do in thatspace is you get to be their
(22:01):
coach.
And you actually say, Hey Bill,good to see you.
You mind if I tell you whatI've been doing at work this
week?
Um, hey Heather, um, reallylove your cute kids that are
running around or whatever.
Um, I I wonder kind of whatwhat kind of songs are you
listen to for worship or in yourcar these days?
I have someone that I'm reallyenjoying.
Or like, hey, Brittany, like,yeah, I don't really know you
(22:24):
that well, but like, let's getcoffee and just share some of
our stories and like thestruggles that we're going
through in life, whatever.
You get to set some of theagenda to invite people to
engage you in a way that'shelpful to you.
You don't have to just wait inthe corner and expect them to
whip up the magic question.
Give them the question.
Literally say, Hey, I I'd loveit if you'd asked me how dating
(22:45):
is going right now.
I'd love it if you'd asked mehow my job is going.
You know, I'd love it if you'dask me about kind of what I'm
feeling passionate because man,I'm really getting into
pickleball.
Hey, man, as a as a pastor andas a friend, set me up because I
want to know you, but I may notknow the question to ask.
Renee Richel (23:00):
Yes, which is all about connection because when
you are single, you have a lotmore time that you can also be
asking and doing your Christian,you know, work to be able to be
there for other people andlisten to their stories.
Because everybody has a storythat has a story that builds
upon another story, andeverybody knows somebody that
knows somebody.
So that's another way in yourloneliness of time to fill it
(23:24):
with the Lord.
I love all those ideas.
Those are great tips.
I love it.
Um, okay.
What biblical principles orpersonal practices would you
encourage singles to adopt whilethey wait for um a lifelong
relationship?
Which you kind of give gave alittle bit already of advice.
Pastor Bob Martin (23:44):
Yeah, but I think I think also the um I
think the biblical picture is soimportant, Renee.
I just want to validate thatGod has given two good callings
to humans.
One is called marriage and oneis called singleness.
One does not have a highervalue than the other.
(24:04):
Um, did you know Jesus wassingle?
Right.
Did you know Paul was single?
Did you know saints throughouttime?
There's been centuries wherethe calling of singleness was
actually elevated as holier thanthe calling of marriage, right?
We just happen to be in ahistorical moment where it's
it's more often the opposite,where people say, Oh, marriage
is a better thing for somereason than singleness.
(24:27):
So, so anyway, I just want topaint the big picture because I
think if you trace the story ofthe Bible, God's big redemptive
story, this is what you willsee.
He creates man and woman in thegarden.
And he says, he looks and hesays, It's not good that man
should be alone.
I'll create a helper.
And that doesn't just meanmarriage, it's beautifully
epitomized in marriage, right?
(24:48):
But we're made for community.
Right.
He then walks through and yousee the journey of all kinds of
men and women throughout the OldTestament.
Some that are married, somethat are single, faithfully
struggling, figure things out,failing, and then following
God's calling.
You hear the heart cries ofDavid and the Psalms, and some
of which are perfect examples ofa weekend loneliness cry,
right?
(25:08):
When you say, Ah Lord, howlong, right?
How long, O Lord?
I have these desires that areunmet.
Help me to follow you, seekyou, find you as my good
shepherd, as the faithful Lord.
And then what comes in the NewTestament, you see in the
Gospels, is a Savior who issingle, who says, Oh, you want
to know who my family is?
It's my brothers and sisterswho do the will of God.
(25:28):
I've planted them in a newfamily.
The primary metaphor in the NewTestament for Christians is
brothers and sisters.
There's one theologian whoactually says the bond we share
of one spirit as Christians iseven deeper and more intimate
than the bond that marriedcouples have together, who are
one flesh, right?
So the intimacy we haveChristians is deep and special
and important.
(25:49):
And then you go on further intothe New Testament where there's
all kinds of pictures of thatcommunity until that final day,
when actually it says we're nolonger married or given in
marriage in heaven, because thelove we have with one another,
with Jesus, is so deep andbeautiful that the ultimate
marriage is Jesus with us,right?
Renee Richel (26:07):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (26:08):
So you ask for the Bible.
Let me just give you the wholeBible.
That's the picture of who weare, and that we don't need to
idolize marriage.
We can worship a Savior who'sfaithful to us from beginning to
end, who may want to give usthe gift of singleness, he may
want to give us the gift ofmarriage, and either one is a
good gift and a good calling,even if you're a season of
(26:31):
struggling with that right now.
And and right, as a pastor, Iknow people who are struggling
with marriage, and I know peoplewho are struggling with
singleness.
Renee Richel (26:38):
Amen.
And so it's always like what wedon't have is what we want, and
we forget to trust the journeyand know that there's something
bigger if we trust in him withall of our heart, instead of
focusing on what we don't havethat we believe we deserve,
right?
So I love that illustration.
And I think that's a goodmessage to our community, which
(26:59):
we have single day engaged folksas we walk through the journey
of singleness, into then whatthen they come into sometimes
our our vow renewal boot campbecause they're also like, I now
have no time for myself becausewe're married, we have kids,
and then it's like they're alldifferent waves, as you were
saying earlier, that everybodygoes through.
(27:21):
So it's important while you'resingle, I always tell everybody
read marriage-minded booksbecause it's equipping you with
the tools of what marriage lookslike.
So when you're there, you'reready and not shocked.
And if you forever want to besingle, yes, read single books,
but that's not gaining anyknowledge of what it's like to
be in a marriage someday either.
(27:43):
Yeah.
I love all this.
Is such good nuggets.
This is awesome.
Um, okay.
So can you share a story or amoment when God worked powerly
powerfully through arelationship, either in your own
life or in your pastoral work?
Pastor Bob Martin (27:58):
Yeah.
Well, um, I'll have one that'smaybe unexpected, and it was a
breakup.
Um, so it was actually not evena breakup, it was a pre-breakup
because we weren't even dating.
Um, there was a wonderful godlygal who um I had connected with
for a year plus.
Um we're in kind of that umpost-college season of life.
(28:18):
And um she was kind enough toinitiate a conversation.
Notice how I can frame thispositively now.
Um maybe not in the batterycare.
Renee Richel (28:27):
We think through what you're gonna have.
Pastor Bob Martin (28:29):
I know, I know.
She was this is true though.
This is just a wonderful woman,great godly character, to say,
even as we were in a friendship,and she had kind of felt the
potential signals of like maybeBob's interested in me, and she
just went ahead and initiated aconversation and said, Hey Bob,
I just wanted to let you know,like if there is interest there,
like I'm not in a season rightwhere I want to pursue that.
(28:50):
Like I'm kind of not interestedin a relationship, romantic
relationship with us right now.
Renee Richel (28:54):
Setting boundaries, so proud of her.
We teach that a lot.
Pastor Bob Martin (28:56):
Now, as mature as her response was, that
didn't mean that I didn'timmediately go home and shed
some tears.
Right?
Um, because I thought, man, thedeath of a relationship before
it even began, how long, ohLord?
When will you give me the womanthat I desire?
What's going on?
But then a strange thinghappened in my heart, and so I
(29:16):
get zero credit for this.
This was God's spirit working.
Renee Richel (29:19):
And how old are you, if you don't mind me
asking?
Pastor Bob Martin (29:20):
Uh so this is this is mid to late 20s.
Renee Richel (29:23):
Okay.
So um several years of thinkingthat too.
Pastor Bob Martin (29:28):
Yeah, uh-huh, that's right.
And so I I literally um got onmy knees and the spirit was
working in my heart to say,Thank the Lord for this.
And I did.
And I said, Wow, Lord, thankyou that she was wise and loving
and caring enough to go aheadand have this conversation with
me.
Lord, give her strength, giveher encouragement, because
(29:49):
that's a hard conversation tohave.
Right.
Her willingness to step intothat emotional vulnerable space
to say that.
And God, thank you that you'restill with me and that you have
mercy on me and you love.
Love me, even if I don't havethat woman yet.
I know I can trust you, andthis was a good gift from you.
This wasn't because you hateme, this is because you love me.
(30:10):
And I just want to tell you,thank you, and I do trust you.
Whoa.
Like, where did that come from?
Right?
It wasn't my flesh, it wasGod's spirit working.
So, as an encouragement, Iwould say that's one story of
how God can work even in abreakup to draw us closer to
Himself and really give us astrange trust that we can't
supply in and of ourselves.
Renee Richel (30:32):
Such a good example.
And I feel when in matchmaking,clients will say, Well, how
long will it take?
How long?
Because they're already soeager by the time they come to
us and they're ready.
But at the end of the day, Ialways tell everybody, I have no
idea if it's gonna be the firstperson I introduce you to, or
it's gonna be the 10th, orheaven forbid the 20th.
But at the end of the day,that's right.
(30:53):
I have no idea how many lifelessons God wants you to learn
from each person we're gonnaconnect you with.
And each person that we getfeedback on, it gives us the
stepping stones to who then theone is, to reframe, to ask the
right questions, to have ourclients think about things
they've never thought about.
So we're able to position themto the one God has planned for
(31:16):
them.
And it's raise the Lord whenthe Lord makes it clear who that
one is.
What's a common ummisconception Christians might
have about love, dating, ormarriage?
And how can we align our viewswith scripture?
Pastor Bob Martin (31:33):
Yeah.
Um, well, uh the the first oneI was gonna say, because we're
talking about church, isactually a misconception that I
think folks who are not in asingle season of life have.
Okay.
And that's that's a couple ofthem.
One is that singleness is allthe same thing, it's monolithic.
There's really just one storythat people have of their
(31:54):
singleness journey into amarriage story.
And that's not the case.
Like, as anyone watching orlistening knows, each one of our
stories is unique.
The age, the stage, therelational background, the
experiences that we've had.
It is so different, right?
So that's a misconception, Ithink.
And then I think the othermisconception is that there's
just one magic cure for beingable to get married.
(32:18):
Oh, just right.
I think unfortunately, um, foras many well-intentioned people
that tried to offer me advice inmy own singleness, it was the
word just that wasn't quiteright.
Oh, if you just um do this,that will solve all your
intimacy issues, that will findyou the perfect woman, and
you'll be good to go, right?
(32:38):
And there's not just one just,right?
There's not just one magicthing, hey, just get fitter, or
just show up for church onSunday, every Sunday, or just do
X, Y, or Z.
It's ultimately God's sovereignhand that's got to work, and
we're faithful along the way.
Renee Richel (32:52):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (32:52):
So I think that probably the misconception
that um men and women who aresingle can have is undervaluing
simple faithfulness.
So if I can offer a story, umthere's a wonderful friend of
mine at church who um is justnow in a season of getting ready
to get married, kind of in her,she's kind of beyond that 40
(33:12):
mark.
Um, and God just worked thisstory that was more unexpected,
right?
Because she was so content inher life, it happened to be a
friend who introduced her tosomeone else.
She tested out the waters, butshe to me was such a model of
simple faithfulness.
She was faithful in herfriendships, faithful in her in
her group of women, her closepeople, faithful with her
(33:33):
extended family, and what ablessing if you've got them,
whether they live near or far.
If you have good relationships,keep digging into those.
Those are a gift.
Nieces, nephews, parents,brothers, sisters, like um keep
accessing those.
They're a blessing.
And so she was faithful andfaithful and faithful and
faithful and said, Hey, I'mgonna walk with the Lord in the
singleness as long as he's gotthis for me, right?
Renee Richel (33:51):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (33:52):
Um and then out of nowhere, seemingly, God
introduces this person to nowfor them to spend the rest of
their lives together.
I think the misconception isthat simple faithfulness isn't
enough.
I need to wave a bunch of magicwands to do extra things.
Um, instead, oftentimes it'sjust saying, no, let me be
faithful this week to followJesus' call for me, and let me
(34:13):
take next steps both in livingmy life faithfully and going
ahead and reaching outrelationally, using all the
tools available to me, all thecommunities available to me.
But let me be faithful insteadof glamorous or instantaneous,
because it probably won't beglamorous and instantaneous, and
that's okay.
Renee Richel (34:31):
Yes, the one that's gonna love you is gonna
love you for all of you andseeing you through all the
seasons and all the things, andyou know, the word that was
coming to your mind or phrasethat was coming to me when you
were saying that is when you'rein those situations and you are
trying to figure out what to do,and people tell you or give you
advice.
Is I always tell everybody,always ask yourself, what would
(34:53):
Jesus do?
Would Jesus want you to sitaround and mope around?
Would Jesus want you to saysomething you can't take back?
Like in those phases, take apause and say, What would Jesus
do?
He would go out, he would talkto people, he would communicate,
he would be of community.
And um, you know, we have onelife and we have no idea how
(35:15):
long.
And every breath, every day,every second is precious.
So don't waste it.
Pastor Bob Martin (35:20):
Yeah.
And and I'll tell you, Renee,if I can add one more into that,
because this is such a goodquestion about misconceptions.
I think you're so right.
I think one, and and maybe thisis a little bit me talking
specifically to guys too.
Um, I think it applies to allof us, though.
I think there can be amisconception that dating is all
about me.
That fundamentally it's me,it's my story, it's what I want,
it's me finding the thing.
(35:41):
And what I try and always tellguys, and God was gracious to
give this to me, he kind ofknocked my head into the wall
enough times to learn a lesson.
It was just to simply have thisgoal in dating, this prayer.
God, let me serve this woman aslong as you let me be in
relationship with her.
Renee Richel (36:00):
Amen.
Pastor Bob Martin (36:01):
That's my goal.
My goal is not to get from her,to receive from her, to have
her complete me and fulfill meand all these sorts of things.
It's to be like Jesus and say,whether I get to go on one date
with her, or whether I get to goon a year's dates with her and
get engaged and start thisjourney, or whether I get to be
married for the rest of my days,as many days as you let me be
in relationship, let me serveher.
(36:23):
Because then that way, even ifour parts pat our ways pat part,
she's able to say, you knowwhat?
He was imperfect, he wasn't theone for me, but he did bless
me.
He did serve me like Jesus, andI saw some of Jesus with him.
And that is a great goal.
That is a kingdom goal indating.
Renee Richel (36:39):
And I love that you say that to all of our men
out there, that sometimesthey're fed up, they're
frustrated, they don't know whatto do, and they're like, I can
never do anything right.
It's that what message you justsaid is are you waking up every
day loving her, making her lifebetter in regards that she will
love you back unconditionallythrough all the things that we
(37:02):
mess up or sometimes do wrong,but serving her first and she
will forever love you back?
It's just that simple, right?
So I love that you'rereiterating that and stating
that.
Can you come in and talk to allof our guys?
I feel like sometimes they needthat little extra talk.
Pastor Bob Martin (37:17):
Great, that's right.
Yeah, a little firm hand on theback.
We all need it.
Renee Richel (37:21):
Exactly.
What encouragement would yougive to someone who feels
discouraged in their singlenessof who's um experienced broken
relationships, which I feel likewe touched a little bit more
on, but let's for anybody outthere that's listening, that's
maybe going through a breakupright now, and you know the hurt
is painful.
Pastor Bob Martin (37:41):
That's right, that's right.
It is so so, first of all, likeI I want to acknowledge that
and say that plainly, like youjust did, Renee.
Like, the hurt of a breakup isreal.
Broken relationships arepainful.
And our scriptures and our Godand our Lord Jesus is no
stranger to suffering.
He is no stranger to brokenrelationships, right?
(38:02):
That's why even in Exodus, whenGod tells his name and his
character to Moses, he is theGod merciful and gracious, slow
to anger and abounding insteadfast love.
He's saying, I'm the one who'sgonna give covenant love that
never breaks, that never runsout, that never stops giving
itself to you.
And that's unlike any humanrelationship you will ever
(38:24):
encounter.
So it's okay for us to say,man, humans have failed us, and
I feel the pain of thatbrokenness.
I would say, maybe as a reallyweird, ironic encouragement, for
many of us, one of the curesfor our pain and our loneliness
is actually more alone time.
And what I don't mean by thatis just um kind of wailing in my
(38:47):
living room all alone orsomething like that.
What I mean like that is thisspiritual practice called
solitude.
Solitude is making space to bealone with God.
So God's graciously allowed meto build over time kind of a
habit of about every quarter,setting aside two to three hours
to just be quiet before theLord.
Renee Richel (39:07):
Yes.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:08):
To listen to his voice, to walk with him, to
enter into prayer.
Renee Richel (39:12):
So healing and therapeutic.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:14):
It is so healing, Renee.
It is so healing because at theend of the day, if we really do
serve an invisible God who ispresent with us by his spirit,
how are we supposed to accesshim, right?
We access him through his word,we access him through prayer.
But the problem that many of ushave is we don't make space for
him to respond to us.
(39:34):
We don't make space for him tolove us.
So, my two encouragements,because someone watching and
listening, you may need to hearthis and actually do this this
month.
Renee Richel (39:42):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:43):
Try to spend a little bit of silence in your
quiet time.
And by silence I mean silence.
I don't want you to read verseson the page of your Bible.
I don't want you to pray.
I want you to quietly receive,breathe deeply, and spend three
to ten minutes in God'spresence, letting him love you.
Look at God, looking at you inlove, and wait for him.
(40:05):
By the way, that's really superhard to do.
We're all super busy anddistracted.
Um there's one writer who said,like, my brain is like monkeys
in a banana tree when I try anddo that.
So, so so if you have a hundredissues that are distracting
you, that's a hundredopportunities to literally just
hand them over to Jesus andsettle with him and try that
over six, ten, twelve, fourteen,thirty days to spend a little
(40:27):
bit of silence dripping.
But then in solitude, I'd sayeither this month or this
quarter, try to set aside atleast two hours to be quiet with
the Lord.
A local park, a library, aroom, an Airbnb, and just say,
God, I'm just gonna let you meetwith me.
Even if I'm experiencing thepain of someone who hurt me, I'm
gonna let you have space tolove me.
Renee Richel (40:47):
I love that advice.
That is such a good tip.
And I think also to listen towhatever a breakup is, to clear
out that toxic, you know, maybewhatever feelings or thoughts or
emotions were said that that isnot who you are, and listen to
what Lord the Lord tells you,you know, who you are too.
(41:08):
So I love that.
Great, great advice.
And as a pastor, what's onepiece of wisdom you wish more
singles preparing for marriagewould take seriously from the
start of a new relationship?
Talking about, you know, doingpremarital and watching couples
then be all about the marriageand the wedding, and or actually
more about the wedding thansometimes the marriage, and they
(41:30):
skip the beat of then aftermarried, what that actually
looks like.
So I that's a great question.
Pastor Bob Martin (41:36):
Yeah, I think um, yeah, that's really good.
Um, I think probably you bringyou into marriage.
Um, I think that's what peoplemoving toward marriage need to
hear.
Like, you're not just it's notjust the glamour of the wedding
day.
And man, many of you guyswatching and listening, like
you're you might be on the way,moving toward that wedding day,
(41:56):
and you have a vision and yougot a board, you got a Pinterest
board, you got so you got allthis stuff that you're ready to
go, and that's cool, that can bebeautiful, right?
I'm really thankful we ended uphaving a beautiful wedding day.
That's great.
But like you alluded to, Renee,marriage is about what happens
after that wedding day.
The wedding day is just thefront door of the house.
And wouldn't it be a shame ifyour front door was so beautiful
and it had like a pottery barand wreath on it, and it like
(42:19):
restoration hardware doorknob,and like it was just gorgeous,
right?
Painted with whatever the toplevel paint is.
The door was glamorous.
And then you walked into thehouse and it was a shambles.
That is not what you want foryour marriage.
So here's what you just need toknow: like, you bring you into
the marriage.
You, you, there's there's onlyone thing in the whole, my dad
(42:39):
growing up, used to always saythis to me there's only one
thing in the whole world you cancontrol, and that's your
response.
You can't control the responseof your spouse to be.
You get to control you.
So here's the question I thinkwe need to ask as we're moving
toward that covenant, because itis a covenant, it's a life and
promise before God and others.
And that's my prayer.
I'm getting to do premaritalcounseling right now with some
couples, and my I'll let themknow my prayer for you is that
(43:00):
God would prepare you to makethis covenant before Him and
others, because it's that big ofa deal.
We're not used to covenants andlifelong promises as much in
our culture, but that's what itis.
Renee Richel (43:10):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (43:10):
Um, and and here's what I would say
bring you into marriage, are youasking the question, am I
becoming more like Jesus?
Right?
So here's the question.
What if you didn't just obeythe teachings of Jesus, but also
sought to live the lifestyle ofJesus?
Right?
Renee Richel (43:29):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (43:30):
So that you're following in his word,
you're living his life, yourlife is based on his rhythms,
and he's building his characterwithin you.
Because it's it's usually goingto be the least glamorous
virtues that are the mostimportant in marriage.
I tell people, I've told thisbefore, like, man, when you read
the fruit of the spirit, theleast sexy of all of them is
patience, right?
Like, who cares?
(43:51):
Right?
Love and joy and like all thissort of stuff.
But in marriage, and myexperience, what my spouse has
needed for me, right?
And God's graciously growing mein is patience over a long haul
with others.
That's the character of Jesus.
So let him start growing Jesus'character in you, and that'll
make you better prepared thanhaving the perfect floral
(44:13):
arrangement.
Renee Richel (44:14):
Well, like they say, practice makes perfection.
And starting off practicingwhile you're single is the best
seat to be in than beingsomebody that didn't practice
and is married and now struggleswith that.
So again, when you're singleand you're learning all these
little nuggets, practice themnow.
So you're never in that seat ofdoubt when you're married,
(44:35):
which I love to summarize prettymuch everything that I feel
like you've said.
And I would love anybody that'slistening to this that is
looking for a church either inthe Indianapolis area or wants
to hear more inspiring messagesfrom your community.
How do people find you?
Pastor Bob Martin (44:52):
Yep.
So they can find College ParkChurch at yourchurch.com and
they can find more resourcesabout loneliness and a lot of
other things like that in thespiritual life at binmin.org.
That's b-in-m-in- dot org.
Renee Richel (45:06):
I love that.
And we'll put those notes forpeople to find as well in our
community so that we can all oneheart, one couple, one village
or community at a time, inspireeach other to do more of God's
work.
So thank you so much, Bob, forjoining us today.
And I know we'll have you backon with more talks of
conversations.
And I hope you have a blessedrest of your week and continue
(45:29):
to spread the word of whatyou're doing to so many hearts.
Pastor Bob Martin (45:31):
Thank you so much, Renee.
It's great.
Renee Richel (45:38):
It's been another great talk on this episode of 1
True Talks by Renee Richel.
I look forward to our nextchat.
Please write in your questionsand comments so I can be sure to
talk about whatever it is youwant to discuss in our next
upcoming episode.
Lots of love.
God bless, XOXO.
Hi, I'm Renee Richel, the founder and
president of 1 True Match.
I'm here to help you find andcultivate the love of your life.
For over a decade, I'vededicated my life to the
importance, purpose, and dynamicof human relationships.
My team and I are disciplinedby faith, love, and integrity to
help our clients find thequality relationship they've
(00:28):
always dreamt of.
Each week, I will be sharingthe tools and tips I've learned
that have rooted my success as amatchmaker with other leaders
around the world.
Hello, loves.
I am so excited to welcome avery special guest, Bob Martin,
(00:49):
number four, is a pastor atCollege Park Church in
Indianapolis.
He also is a co-founder of BinMin, an online resource ministry
helping youth, young adultsfind their next step in their
spiritual life.
I love that.
I love that.
Bob has a bachelor's degree inbiblical studies from Viola
(01:13):
University in California and amaster's of divinity degree from
Trinity Evangelical DivinitySchool.
He has over a dozen years ofpastoral experience in various
ministry areas from children toseniors, which is our entire
spectrum of who we work with.
(01:34):
And he lives in urbanIndianapolis with his two
precious daughters and his wifeof nine years, who he met at
church.
Welcome, Bob.
Pastor Bob Martin (01:47):
Thank you so much, Renee.
I'm really glad to be here.
Renee Richel (01:50):
We're so excited to dive into what I feel our
audience is starving here inthis pastor uh series that we
are interviewing and talking todifferent pastors that are
really giving our community uhsupport, encouragement, the
latest of what's happening outthere in a world that is taking
(02:11):
us so far from actual going inface-to-face time with churches
and fellowship that's taking usto the convenience of online,
which we love when we can't bethere.
Um, but how much biblically itmatters that we're in fellowship
together, worshiping ourChrist, our Lord, in every walk
(02:32):
of our life that gives us thepeace that we all need way more
in an AI world we live in today.
Pastor Bob Martin (02:38):
Amen to that.
Renee Richel (02:40):
So I want to dive in and start off with just
asking some questions, and thenI'm sure we're just gonna go off
track and just talk throughwhatever God wants us to also
share.
Pastor Bob Martin (02:49):
Beautiful.
Yeah, let's do it.
I love it.
Renee Richel (02:51):
All right, so can you share a bit of your personal
journey, testimony, how youwere called into ministry and
how your relationship with Godhas evolved over the years?
Pastor Bob Martin (03:04):
Yeah, so I had the privilege of growing up
primarily in a Christianhousehold.
My parents came to Christ uhafter they were married, had a
couple little kids, and uh Jesustransformed everything.
They grew up listening to benice sermons, didn't really
understand that Jesus was thesavior, they needed to put their
faith in him.
So they did when I was little,grew up, got the chance to go to
Christian school most of my wayup, and had the very ironic
(03:27):
experience when I was in highschool, going to a Christian
school, of being in a preachingcompetition.
Oh, which is not something manypeople can say that they've
done.
Renee Richel (03:35):
No.
Pastor Bob Martin (03:36):
Um, and probably if you're in it to win
it, like you shouldn't, right?
You shouldn't be that guy.
Um, so God used that to justsay, Man, Bob, I may be wooing
you into a calling here.
And I just got to say, God, ifI could do anything with my
life, I would love to sink myteeth deeply into your word, be
transformed by it first, andthen just get to communicate
(03:57):
your word to others so theycould be transformed too.
As you can imagine, that's apretty big thing to receive from
the Lord when you're ateenager.
Yeah.
Um, so I know lots of us haveexperiences where God's kind of
stepped in and done somethingsignificant in our life and our
teens, but that's at atrajectory so that I traveled
2,000 miles from home, went toCalifornia for college, for
(04:18):
Bible college, loved it, lovedmy time out there in training,
then came back to the Midwest,north of Chicago for seminary,
was there for three and a halfyears, continuing this training
and this path, and God just keptaffirming a ministry calling.
But while he was affirming myministry calling, he was also
allowing me to go through thecrucible of singleness.
Um because all throughout thattime, throughout college,
(04:41):
throughout graduate school, andeven into my kind of young
professional time, where Ilanded as sort of an intern on
steroids, it was a residency, atwo-year experience at a larger
church in Indianapolis, where Istill am now, spoiler alert.
Um he allowed me to walk thisjourney of going, hey Bob, like
there's a lot of things thatmight be blessed in your life
(05:01):
with ministry or your walk withme, but I'm choosing not to yet
give you your one person.
Will you still trust me?
Will you still be faithful?
How will you cry out to meinstead of going to other things
to cope with the loneliness,the anxiety, the struggles?
So for any of us who've walkeda journey of singleness for any
amount of years, I think we canrelate to the fact that God may
(05:24):
be doing more than one thing inour life at a time, right?
Right.
And so there's always piecesthat there's a struggle, there's
there's a challenge, and how dowe take that part of our life
and surrender it to the Lord?
Or frankly, when we fail, andand I have regrets in my
journey, how do we take thosethings and say, I'm not a
perfect person and I'm not afailure, I'm a gospel person.
(05:46):
So when I do mess up, when I dofail, when I do go to an idol
or a bad relationship orsomething that I choose instead
of Jesus, how does he thenreceive me again, give me his
forgiveness, give me hisunconditional love, pick me back
up, and remind me of theidentity I really have, which is
more than just a pastor, morethan just someone called the
ministry, or more than justsomeone in another calling, but
(06:08):
it's his child, his son.
So, all that to say, um, Iended up planting in a larger
sized church, about 3,000 pluspeople on the north side of
Indianapolis.
Indianapolis is one of thebigger cities in the States.
I think it's maybe the 16thbiggest in the US, which
surprises a lot of people.
Um, and it felt like home tome.
I loved sinking in in the city,but also in the church, because
(06:31):
this happened to be a churchthat had a group of single
people.
Um, it had been going foryears.
There had been a lay elder whohad planted it like a decade
before, and it continued tothrive.
And part of that.
Yeah, being connected to alarger urban center.
And so I plugged into thatministry, not just to lead, but
because I needed it in my life.
I was in I was in my mid andlate 20s, and I said, Man Lord,
(06:52):
I don't want to waste thisdecade or plus of my life.
I want to follow Jesus and Iwant to find community.
So God in his grace allowed meto continue in that, eventually
start leading that ministry.
And we we can double-click intothis if you want, but how do
you how do you lead a ministrywhere your flock is also your
fishing pond?
Renee Richel (07:09):
Right, right.
Because you are not supposed toventure out for your own gain
when it comes to that when youare at church.
Pastor Bob Martin (07:16):
That is that is a sticky situation, right?
Uh, you don't want to mess thatup and you don't want to mess
people up.
Um, so God walked me throughthat journey, and then um I
actually at church, I had I haddone all kinds of things for
dating um in person, um, peopledoing matchmaking, had used all
kinds of different online tools,um, apps, um, going online,
(07:38):
like all this sort of stuff.
So grateful that we are in thisseason of life where those
tools are available to us, wherewe just I may not know who I
don't know.
Renee Richel (07:45):
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (07:46):
Um and then God, for my story, happened to
put my wife in our church.
She came to that church.
I got to know her, build thatrelationship, and eventually we
ended up dating for a year plus,getting married, um, and then I
was um 31 when we got married.
Um, so I walked a whole decadeof at least my 20s, single.
And now he's been gracious toallow us to be married for about
(08:07):
nine or so years, have twobeautiful daughters.
Um but the more important partof that story than just the fact
that God decided to bring aspouse was his work within me to
say, even in ministry, and soagain, I've been at this church
now 13 plus years.
Um, I've done all kinds ofministry stuff.
I've led small groups, I've ledsingles ministry, I've done a
lot of different things.
I've had up membership, whichis my role now, encouraging
people to come in the front doorof the church and be all in.
(08:29):
Um but the more important thingis God over time does a work to
make us the person he wants tomake us.
More than he just wants to giveus a job or a career, and more
than he just wants to give us aspouse or a dream person.
He's doing a deeper work withinus.
So I think that's what I'm mostgrateful for.
Renee Richel (08:50):
Which I love to hear you say that, because I
always tell everybody it's thetrust journey while you're
single, and we like to keep oursingles occupied with our trust
in the Lord instead of focusingso much on finding that person.
Now, as a matchmaking company,you think, well, wait a second,
isn't that what you're trying todo?
And we are.
However, we have found ourclients that are matched sooner.
(09:14):
And I'm saying this to all myaudience out there, it is in the
waiting season.
The ones that are matchedsooner are going through what we
put them through this journeyof discovering their DNA with
God, who they are today, fromutero to today, to come up with
a highlight reel to share theirstory with their one true match
(09:37):
when it's got its perfecttiming.
And so, you know, we always sayI always say there's two sides
of the coin, right?
Your side, his side, and thenJesus, the glue together, right?
And so when you're single, youhave to also be available to
allow somebody to come into yourworld that could be taller
(09:59):
opposite and accept andcompromise and all these things.
And if you're not truly ready,like if God had to do this work
for you, then that person isnever gonna come into your life.
Pastor Bob Martin (10:10):
Yeah, how many stories there are?
Renee Richel (10:12):
Yes, through courses, through training, all
the things that we have, itreally, really helps to prepare
and equip you for like when youmet your lovely wife that walked
in your front church door.
Pastor Bob Martin (10:26):
That's right.
Renee Richel (10:27):
So I love that.
I love that.
Okay, love all right.
Um, how do you define kingdomwork in your own life?
Pastor Bob Martin (10:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's reallythis beautiful, mysterious thing
when you read the gospels andyou hear Jesus talking about the
kingdom.
He says these things like, thekingdom of heaven is at hand,
the kingdom of God is near.
And um, maybe one of the mostaccurate synopses that like
(10:57):
Bible scholars describe thekingdom as is this phrase,
already but not yet.
Jesus has inaugurated, he hasbrought the kingdom of God to
earth.
And he's doing that by givinghis spirit inside real flesh and
blood people, gatheringtogether people into local
churches that represent hislarger church.
This is the embassy of thekingdom, right?
(11:18):
Yeah.
Almost like a new little gardenof Eden, that's where his
kingdom is breaking in.
But then it's also not yet,because as we know, as we
experience the brokenness oflife, both within us and outside
of us, there will be a greatday when he will bring that
perfect kingdom.
So if that's the kingdom,right, wherever God fully reigns
through Jesus by his spirit,then what is the work, right?
(11:39):
What is the kingdom work thatwe're called to do?
And I would say that it is umone, living out God's image,
because that's what he hascreated us to be, right?
You look in Genesis 1, 27 and28, and he said, Man, it's it's
not good for man to be alone.
I'll make him a helper fit forthem, I'll put them together,
we'll gather them in a communityjust like I am a triune
(12:00):
community.
We're made for that, and weimage him in so many ways in the
world, but then we do that aswe we love God, we love other
people, right?
That's Jesus' summary of thegreatest commandment, and the
second one that's like it, andthen we go on his great
commission into the world at theend of the Gospel of Matthew,
Matthew 28, go and makedisciples.
So, in some ways, you can thinkof it this way Um I've I've
(12:24):
heard a pastor say this beforethat the great commandment,
right?
Love God and love others, andthe great commission to go and
make disciples is impossiblewithout the great invitation.
And that's where Jesus says,Come to me, all who labor and
are heavy laden, and I will giveyou rest.
(12:46):
Take my yoke upon you and learnfrom me, from gentle and humble
in heart, and you'll find restfor your souls.
So, what a gracious savior wehave if the work he's calling us
to do is even rest in him.
He's the one we work through.
Renee Richel (13:02):
Yes.
And on that, talking about theinvite we were talking about
earlier before we startedrecording this.
How I want to put this outthere to all of my audience, I
encourage you, if not everyweek, every other because I'm
all about challenges, becausewe'll actually do it when
there's a challenge, to inviteone to three people to church
(13:23):
with you.
I usually come in with multipledifferent people and they're
like, who's this new person?
I'm like, oh well, I justcollected them, right?
Because I think the biggestthing if I didn't have in all
the different cities I've livedin, somebody invite me or walk
in confidently, like with asmile and a greeting team, you
wouldn't be in the churches thatyou are today.
And it takes a village, right?
(13:44):
So encourage and invite otherpeople because interviewing a
bunch of people that we do on adaily basis, I find some people
that just don't have a church,and that's why they're not
going.
And that is our job asChristians to invite them to sit
with you, pray with them, doGod's work.
Pastor Bob Martin (14:00):
Can I, Renee, can I back you up as a pastor?
Please do.
Renee Richel (14:04):
Please do.
Pastor Bob Martin (14:04):
I was gonna say that so I get to be a pastor
of membership.
So that means my role is just arecognition that God's already
doing work in the lives ofpeople.
And when they come into thelife of the church, when they
come in those front doors, likeyou mentioned, we want to make
it as easy, as clear, and ashelpful for them to find
community.
So, like my dream, myheartbeat, my desire for you, as
you're listening, as you'rewatching, would be that you'd
(14:27):
step into a local church, notjust because you have to, not
just because it's duty, not justbecause that's what your
parents might have told you todo, or hey, that's just what an
A told you to do.
But because that's where you'llfind a trusted community that
one will support hopefully yourromantic journey and say, yeah,
this is good.
This is God's picture.
And more.
They'll say, and we're even abigger community that's
(14:50):
multi-generational.
We have different maritalstatuses, and we want to enfold
you and your friends, yourneighbors, your coworkers into
this spiritual community becausewhat do we all want?
Deep intimacy and community.
And God's just happened toalready build a thing for us
that's intergenerational,diverse, messy, and it's called
his local church.
Renee Richel (15:11):
Yeah, it's so true.
And I always say, God wants usto give him something to work
with.
So we have to be out and about.
Nothing is gonna fall on ourlap, sitting on our couch inside
a room, thinking it's gonnahappen online.
It's not like go be out incommunity, right?
I love it.
Okay, so in your experience,what are some of the most common
(15:34):
spiritual or emotionalchallenges singles face today,
and how should the church speakinto those individuals?
Pastor Bob Martin (15:43):
Boy, yeah, that's that's real.
That's real, Renee.
Um I think that the top of mylist is loneliness.
Renee Richel (15:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (15:51):
Um, I know that um I don't know if there
was a day that went by in mysingleness that loneliness was
not just banging on the door ofmy heart.
And um that's where I thinkI've found both.
I don't want to paint an unfairpicture because that's also one
of the things.
So loneliness is not a sin,it's a struggle, right?
(16:12):
It's a form of suffering.
In fact, I think it's easy totell some people who are
suffering because they're in ahospital bed or maybe they're in
a wheelchair, right?
Those physical sufferings wecan see, but I think loneliness
is a type of relationalsuffering.
So it can be invisible, and youdon't necessarily see it in
somebody when you walk next tothem in the street, see them in
(16:33):
the workplace, or over a Zoomcall, or even in a church seat.
But is it something that we canactually resolve?
Is it something that Godactually wants to work with?
And I would say this (16:42):
I don't think that there's one silver
bullet for loneliness.
I think there's a constellationof cures that God wants for us.
That if we put these differentpieces together, two things can
happen.
One, we can actually find somefreedom from some of our
loneliness.
That it doesn't have to beevery Friday night that we're
just like angsty and struggling,right?
Renee Richel (17:03):
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:03):
And, but not just freedom, right?
We still live on this side ofGod's kingdom fully coming.
Now, there's not always gonnabe freedom.
There's some days where just,hey, I do feel kind of lonely
right now.
And you can acknowledge them,walk through that feeling.
So we don't just find freedomfrom loneliness, but we can find
formation in our loneliness.
Jesus was lonely.
Look at the Garden ofGethsemane, right?
(17:24):
Like Jesus experienced that toodeeply, these deep emotions, so
they're good.
So, all that to say, I thinkthat there's multiple things
that can help us with this realpresent struggle that most of us
feel with loneliness on aregular week.
And I think the church plays acritical part in that for a
couple things.
Can I maybe say a couple ofparts that could help with that?
Renee Richel (17:43):
Yes, please.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:45):
One of them I think is story.
I think it's so easy for me tocope, I'll just talk about
myself here for a second, withuh um over-entertainment and
internet comparison.
Renee Richel (17:57):
Yes.
Pastor Bob Martin (17:58):
And what happens when I look at too much
entertainment, and what happenswhen I look at too much
internet, especially otherpeople's lives, is I'm tempted
to believe a smaller story.
My story is just all aboutcrushing it at work.
My story is all about myfitness.
My story is all about comparingmy vacations to this other
person's vacations.
And the problem with that isisn't the vacations or fitness
(18:20):
or something else isn't, mightnot be good.
It's that it's not the fullpicture.
It's not a big enough story.
And so what happens is I justneed Sundays.
I need Sundays and I need thedrip of God's work and his
presence in my life every day,Monday through Saturday.
But what happens specificallyin the life of God's church is
I'm exposed to the bigger story.
And it says, What's the bigthing God's doing in the world
(18:42):
that I get to be a part of?
That I'm unconditionally lovedby the maker of all things,
who's working his perfect planuntil his kingdom comes so
there's no more tears, and hisspirit will never leave me, but
will powerfully work in me dayby day, right?
So that story, that's why weget to worship and hear other
people worshiping next to us,right?
Not just on a screen.
(19:02):
That's where we get to be in asmall group and hear other
people's struggles and ourstruggle too, and we get to
pray.
And prayer is amazing andtransformative.
So I think it helps us withstory, and I think it also helps
us with our practices, right?
It helps us figure out a rhythmof life that isn't based on
being too busy with a billionthings, or just working
(19:23):
ourselves to death, or alwayschasing the person, the one.
Renee Richel (19:27):
Right.
Right?
Right.
Pastor Bob Martin (19:28):
That can build our rhythm.
So we're just chasing andrunning like the little rabbits
I find in my backyard that aredigging through, you know,
different plants and stuff.
And it's like that's what myheart's tempted to be.
But when I sit in a church andI'm dialoguing with other
saints, I go, Oh, you're tryingto build a regular rhythm that's
human-sized and God focused.
You just spend simple time withGod every day, you spend some
(19:49):
time once a week having somesort of Sabbath experience to
slow down and rest in the Lord,and you make sure to fit worship
into your life.
Oh, I guess that's what it'sall about.
Renee Richel (19:58):
Yes.
And I love that you're allabout the story because I mean
that's what the churches arethere for.
Like, sign up for a Biblestudy, sign up for a male grill,
whatever, barbecue thing.
And like put yourself in thoseenvironments so that you're not
lonely, with the Lord, and somany of my singles, I'm like,
(20:19):
what are you complaining about?
When you're alone, it is themost easy personally for myself.
Special time that you spendwith God dating God, like or
Jesus, right?
So, like I have a telling whensingles will go through what
they're going through andthey're like, I just don't know.
I can't find anybody.
(20:39):
Everybody's like putting allthe pressure on me.
Like, tell them you're datingJesus right now.
And mean it.
Because as you know, once youget married and you have
children and you do what you do,they take time away from your
intimate time that you hadbefore in your loneliness when
it was just the two of you withJesus.
Pastor Bob Martin (20:58):
Yeah.
And I'll tell you, Renee, Ithink, I think there's two
practices that, like, as I'msingle, entering the life of the
church and figuring that out,that I think will really help
me.
One of them is um commitment.
And it's just saying, hey, letme just find a thing to commit
to in my church.
Maybe it's holding littlebabies in the nursery because
it's so sweet and I get to meetother people.
(21:18):
Maybe it's saying, hey, I'mgonna linger, you know, in the
foyer or the atrium afterwardand commit to 15 minutes just
hanging and talking to whoever'sthere, right?
Maybe it's a small group, butfind a thing and just do it.
Just commit to it, becausethat's when God's gonna work.
And you don't give yourself theout, right?
Right.
Second practice I would saythough is coaching, because this
(21:39):
is where you were getting to.
And that is not every I'm gonnabe honest here, right?
I've worked in church ministrylong enough and been a Christian
long enough to go, we geteasily misunderstood, right?
Yeah, whatever our story is,but certainly if my story is
that I'm single right now.
Like people just may not evenknow what the best question to
ask me is.
So what you get to do in thatspace is you get to be their
(22:01):
coach.
And you actually say, Hey Bill,good to see you.
You mind if I tell you whatI've been doing at work this
week?
Um, hey Heather, um, reallylove your cute kids that are
running around or whatever.
Um, I I wonder kind of whatwhat kind of songs are you
listen to for worship or in yourcar these days?
I have someone that I'm reallyenjoying.
Or like, hey, Brittany, like,yeah, I don't really know you
(22:24):
that well, but like, let's getcoffee and just share some of
our stories and like thestruggles that we're going
through in life, whatever.
You get to set some of theagenda to invite people to
engage you in a way that'shelpful to you.
You don't have to just wait inthe corner and expect them to
whip up the magic question.
Give them the question.
Literally say, Hey, I I'd loveit if you'd asked me how dating
(22:45):
is going right now.
I'd love it if you'd asked mehow my job is going.
You know, I'd love it if you'dask me about kind of what I'm
feeling passionate because man,I'm really getting into
pickleball.
Hey, man, as a as a pastor andas a friend, set me up because I
want to know you, but I may notknow the question to ask.
Renee Richel (23:00):
Yes, which is all about connection because when
you are single, you have a lotmore time that you can also be
asking and doing your Christian,you know, work to be able to be
there for other people andlisten to their stories.
Because everybody has a storythat has a story that builds
upon another story, andeverybody knows somebody that
knows somebody.
So that's another way in yourloneliness of time to fill it
(23:24):
with the Lord.
I love all those ideas.
Those are great tips.
I love it.
Um, okay.
What biblical principles orpersonal practices would you
encourage singles to adopt whilethey wait for um a lifelong
relationship?
Which you kind of give gave alittle bit already of advice.
Pastor Bob Martin (23:44):
Yeah, but I think I think also the um I
think the biblical picture is soimportant, Renee.
I just want to validate thatGod has given two good callings
to humans.
One is called marriage and oneis called singleness.
One does not have a highervalue than the other.
(24:04):
Um, did you know Jesus wassingle?
Right.
Did you know Paul was single?
Did you know saints throughouttime?
There's been centuries wherethe calling of singleness was
actually elevated as holier thanthe calling of marriage, right?
We just happen to be in ahistorical moment where it's
it's more often the opposite,where people say, Oh, marriage
is a better thing for somereason than singleness.
(24:27):
So, so anyway, I just want topaint the big picture because I
think if you trace the story ofthe Bible, God's big redemptive
story, this is what you willsee.
He creates man and woman in thegarden.
And he says, he looks and hesays, It's not good that man
should be alone.
I'll create a helper.
And that doesn't just meanmarriage, it's beautifully
epitomized in marriage, right?
(24:48):
But we're made for community.
Right.
He then walks through and yousee the journey of all kinds of
men and women throughout the OldTestament.
Some that are married, somethat are single, faithfully
struggling, figure things out,failing, and then following
God's calling.
You hear the heart cries ofDavid and the Psalms, and some
of which are perfect examples ofa weekend loneliness cry,
right?
(25:08):
When you say, Ah Lord, howlong, right?
How long, O Lord?
I have these desires that areunmet.
Help me to follow you, seekyou, find you as my good
shepherd, as the faithful Lord.
And then what comes in the NewTestament, you see in the
Gospels, is a Savior who issingle, who says, Oh, you want
to know who my family is?
It's my brothers and sisterswho do the will of God.
(25:28):
I've planted them in a newfamily.
The primary metaphor in the NewTestament for Christians is
brothers and sisters.
There's one theologian whoactually says the bond we share
of one spirit as Christians iseven deeper and more intimate
than the bond that marriedcouples have together, who are
one flesh, right?
So the intimacy we haveChristians is deep and special
and important.
(25:49):
And then you go on further intothe New Testament where there's
all kinds of pictures of thatcommunity until that final day,
when actually it says we're nolonger married or given in
marriage in heaven, because thelove we have with one another,
with Jesus, is so deep andbeautiful that the ultimate
marriage is Jesus with us,right?
Renee Richel (26:07):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (26:08):
So you ask for the Bible.
Let me just give you the wholeBible.
That's the picture of who weare, and that we don't need to
idolize marriage.
We can worship a Savior who'sfaithful to us from beginning to
end, who may want to give usthe gift of singleness, he may
want to give us the gift ofmarriage, and either one is a
good gift and a good calling,even if you're a season of
(26:31):
struggling with that right now.
And and right, as a pastor, Iknow people who are struggling
with marriage, and I know peoplewho are struggling with
singleness.
Renee Richel (26:38):
Amen.
And so it's always like what wedon't have is what we want, and
we forget to trust the journeyand know that there's something
bigger if we trust in him withall of our heart, instead of
focusing on what we don't havethat we believe we deserve,
right?
So I love that illustration.
And I think that's a goodmessage to our community, which
(26:59):
we have single day engaged folksas we walk through the journey
of singleness, into then whatthen they come into sometimes
our our vow renewal boot campbecause they're also like, I now
have no time for myself becausewe're married, we have kids,
and then it's like they're alldifferent waves, as you were
saying earlier, that everybodygoes through.
(27:21):
So it's important while you'resingle, I always tell everybody
read marriage-minded booksbecause it's equipping you with
the tools of what marriage lookslike.
So when you're there, you'reready and not shocked.
And if you forever want to besingle, yes, read single books,
but that's not gaining anyknowledge of what it's like to
be in a marriage someday either.
(27:43):
Yeah.
I love all this.
Is such good nuggets.
This is awesome.
Um, okay.
So can you share a story or amoment when God worked powerly
powerfully through arelationship, either in your own
life or in your pastoral work?
Pastor Bob Martin (27:58):
Yeah.
Well, um, I'll have one that'smaybe unexpected, and it was a
breakup.
Um, so it was actually not evena breakup, it was a pre-breakup
because we weren't even dating.
Um, there was a wonderful godlygal who um I had connected with
for a year plus.
Um we're in kind of that umpost-college season of life.
(28:18):
And um she was kind enough toinitiate a conversation.
Notice how I can frame thispositively now.
Um maybe not in the batterycare.
Renee Richel (28:27):
We think through what you're gonna have.
Pastor Bob Martin (28:29):
I know, I know.
She was this is true though.
This is just a wonderful woman,great godly character, to say,
even as we were in a friendship,and she had kind of felt the
potential signals of like maybeBob's interested in me, and she
just went ahead and initiated aconversation and said, Hey Bob,
I just wanted to let you know,like if there is interest there,
like I'm not in a season rightwhere I want to pursue that.
(28:50):
Like I'm kind of not interestedin a relationship, romantic
relationship with us right now.
Renee Richel (28:54):
Setting boundaries, so proud of her.
We teach that a lot.
Pastor Bob Martin (28:56):
Now, as mature as her response was, that
didn't mean that I didn'timmediately go home and shed
some tears.
Right?
Um, because I thought, man, thedeath of a relationship before
it even began, how long, ohLord?
When will you give me the womanthat I desire?
What's going on?
But then a strange thinghappened in my heart, and so I
(29:16):
get zero credit for this.
This was God's spirit working.
Renee Richel (29:19):
And how old are you, if you don't mind me
asking?
Pastor Bob Martin (29:20):
Uh so this is this is mid to late 20s.
Renee Richel (29:23):
Okay.
So um several years of thinkingthat too.
Pastor Bob Martin (29:28):
Yeah, uh-huh, that's right.
And so I I literally um got onmy knees and the spirit was
working in my heart to say,Thank the Lord for this.
And I did.
And I said, Wow, Lord, thankyou that she was wise and loving
and caring enough to go aheadand have this conversation with
me.
Lord, give her strength, giveher encouragement, because
(29:49):
that's a hard conversation tohave.
Right.
Her willingness to step intothat emotional vulnerable space
to say that.
And God, thank you that you'restill with me and that you have
mercy on me and you love.
Love me, even if I don't havethat woman yet.
I know I can trust you, andthis was a good gift from you.
This wasn't because you hateme, this is because you love me.
(30:10):
And I just want to tell you,thank you, and I do trust you.
Whoa.
Like, where did that come from?
Right?
It wasn't my flesh, it wasGod's spirit working.
So, as an encouragement, Iwould say that's one story of
how God can work even in abreakup to draw us closer to
Himself and really give us astrange trust that we can't
supply in and of ourselves.
Renee Richel (30:32):
Such a good example.
And I feel when in matchmaking,clients will say, Well, how
long will it take?
How long?
Because they're already soeager by the time they come to
us and they're ready.
But at the end of the day, Ialways tell everybody, I have no
idea if it's gonna be the firstperson I introduce you to, or
it's gonna be the 10th, orheaven forbid the 20th.
But at the end of the day,that's right.
(30:53):
I have no idea how many lifelessons God wants you to learn
from each person we're gonnaconnect you with.
And each person that we getfeedback on, it gives us the
stepping stones to who then theone is, to reframe, to ask the
right questions, to have ourclients think about things
they've never thought about.
So we're able to position themto the one God has planned for
(31:16):
them.
And it's raise the Lord whenthe Lord makes it clear who that
one is.
What's a common ummisconception Christians might
have about love, dating, ormarriage?
And how can we align our viewswith scripture?
Pastor Bob Martin (31:33):
Yeah.
Um, well, uh the the first oneI was gonna say, because we're
talking about church, isactually a misconception that I
think folks who are not in asingle season of life have.
Okay.
And that's that's a couple ofthem.
One is that singleness is allthe same thing, it's monolithic.
There's really just one storythat people have of their
(31:54):
singleness journey into amarriage story.
And that's not the case.
Like, as anyone watching orlistening knows, each one of our
stories is unique.
The age, the stage, therelational background, the
experiences that we've had.
It is so different, right?
So that's a misconception, Ithink.
And then I think the othermisconception is that there's
just one magic cure for beingable to get married.
(32:18):
Oh, just right.
I think unfortunately, um, foras many well-intentioned people
that tried to offer me advice inmy own singleness, it was the
word just that wasn't quiteright.
Oh, if you just um do this,that will solve all your
intimacy issues, that will findyou the perfect woman, and
you'll be good to go, right?
(32:38):
And there's not just one just,right?
There's not just one magicthing, hey, just get fitter, or
just show up for church onSunday, every Sunday, or just do
X, Y, or Z.
It's ultimately God's sovereignhand that's got to work, and
we're faithful along the way.
Renee Richel (32:52):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (32:52):
So I think that probably the misconception
that um men and women who aresingle can have is undervaluing
simple faithfulness.
So if I can offer a story, umthere's a wonderful friend of
mine at church who um is justnow in a season of getting ready
to get married, kind of in her,she's kind of beyond that 40
(33:12):
mark.
Um, and God just worked thisstory that was more unexpected,
right?
Because she was so content inher life, it happened to be a
friend who introduced her tosomeone else.
She tested out the waters, butshe to me was such a model of
simple faithfulness.
She was faithful in herfriendships, faithful in her in
her group of women, her closepeople, faithful with her
(33:33):
extended family, and what ablessing if you've got them,
whether they live near or far.
If you have good relationships,keep digging into those.
Those are a gift.
Nieces, nephews, parents,brothers, sisters, like um keep
accessing those.
They're a blessing.
And so she was faithful andfaithful and faithful and
faithful and said, Hey, I'mgonna walk with the Lord in the
singleness as long as he's gotthis for me, right?
Renee Richel (33:51):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (33:52):
Um and then out of nowhere, seemingly, God
introduces this person to nowfor them to spend the rest of
their lives together.
I think the misconception isthat simple faithfulness isn't
enough.
I need to wave a bunch of magicwands to do extra things.
Um, instead, oftentimes it'sjust saying, no, let me be
faithful this week to followJesus' call for me, and let me
(34:13):
take next steps both in livingmy life faithfully and going
ahead and reaching outrelationally, using all the
tools available to me, all thecommunities available to me.
But let me be faithful insteadof glamorous or instantaneous,
because it probably won't beglamorous and instantaneous, and
that's okay.
Renee Richel (34:31):
Yes, the one that's gonna love you is gonna
love you for all of you andseeing you through all the
seasons and all the things, andyou know, the word that was
coming to your mind or phrasethat was coming to me when you
were saying that is when you'rein those situations and you are
trying to figure out what to do,and people tell you or give you
advice.
Is I always tell everybody,always ask yourself, what would
(34:53):
Jesus do?
Would Jesus want you to sitaround and mope around?
Would Jesus want you to saysomething you can't take back?
Like in those phases, take apause and say, What would Jesus
do?
He would go out, he would talkto people, he would communicate,
he would be of community.
And um, you know, we have onelife and we have no idea how
(35:15):
long.
And every breath, every day,every second is precious.
So don't waste it.
Pastor Bob Martin (35:20):
Yeah.
And and I'll tell you, Renee,if I can add one more into that,
because this is such a goodquestion about misconceptions.
I think you're so right.
I think one, and and maybe thisis a little bit me talking
specifically to guys too.
Um, I think it applies to allof us, though.
I think there can be amisconception that dating is all
about me.
That fundamentally it's me,it's my story, it's what I want,
it's me finding the thing.
(35:41):
And what I try and always tellguys, and God was gracious to
give this to me, he kind ofknocked my head into the wall
enough times to learn a lesson.
It was just to simply have thisgoal in dating, this prayer.
God, let me serve this woman aslong as you let me be in
relationship with her.
Renee Richel (36:00):
Amen.
Pastor Bob Martin (36:01):
That's my goal.
My goal is not to get from her,to receive from her, to have
her complete me and fulfill meand all these sorts of things.
It's to be like Jesus and say,whether I get to go on one date
with her, or whether I get to goon a year's dates with her and
get engaged and start thisjourney, or whether I get to be
married for the rest of my days,as many days as you let me be
in relationship, let me serveher.
(36:23):
Because then that way, even ifour parts pat our ways pat part,
she's able to say, you knowwhat?
He was imperfect, he wasn't theone for me, but he did bless
me.
He did serve me like Jesus, andI saw some of Jesus with him.
And that is a great goal.
That is a kingdom goal indating.
Renee Richel (36:39):
And I love that you say that to all of our men
out there, that sometimesthey're fed up, they're
frustrated, they don't know whatto do, and they're like, I can
never do anything right.
It's that what message you justsaid is are you waking up every
day loving her, making her lifebetter in regards that she will
love you back unconditionallythrough all the things that we
(37:02):
mess up or sometimes do wrong,but serving her first and she
will forever love you back?
It's just that simple, right?
So I love that you'rereiterating that and stating
that.
Can you come in and talk to allof our guys?
I feel like sometimes they needthat little extra talk.
Pastor Bob Martin (37:17):
Great, that's right.
Yeah, a little firm hand on theback.
We all need it.
Renee Richel (37:21):
Exactly.
What encouragement would yougive to someone who feels
discouraged in their singlenessof who's um experienced broken
relationships, which I feel likewe touched a little bit more
on, but let's for anybody outthere that's listening, that's
maybe going through a breakupright now, and you know the hurt
is painful.
Pastor Bob Martin (37:41):
That's right, that's right.
It is so so, first of all, likeI I want to acknowledge that
and say that plainly, like youjust did, Renee.
Like, the hurt of a breakup isreal.
Broken relationships arepainful.
And our scriptures and our Godand our Lord Jesus is no
stranger to suffering.
He is no stranger to brokenrelationships, right?
(38:02):
That's why even in Exodus, whenGod tells his name and his
character to Moses, he is theGod merciful and gracious, slow
to anger and abounding insteadfast love.
He's saying, I'm the one who'sgonna give covenant love that
never breaks, that never runsout, that never stops giving
itself to you.
And that's unlike any humanrelationship you will ever
(38:24):
encounter.
So it's okay for us to say,man, humans have failed us, and
I feel the pain of thatbrokenness.
I would say, maybe as a reallyweird, ironic encouragement, for
many of us, one of the curesfor our pain and our loneliness
is actually more alone time.
And what I don't mean by thatis just um kind of wailing in my
(38:47):
living room all alone orsomething like that.
What I mean like that is thisspiritual practice called
solitude.
Solitude is making space to bealone with God.
So God's graciously allowed meto build over time kind of a
habit of about every quarter,setting aside two to three hours
to just be quiet before theLord.
Renee Richel (39:07):
Yes.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:08):
To listen to his voice, to walk with him, to
enter into prayer.
Renee Richel (39:12):
So healing and therapeutic.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:14):
It is so healing, Renee.
It is so healing because at theend of the day, if we really do
serve an invisible God who ispresent with us by his spirit,
how are we supposed to accesshim, right?
We access him through his word,we access him through prayer.
But the problem that many of ushave is we don't make space for
him to respond to us.
(39:34):
We don't make space for him tolove us.
So, my two encouragements,because someone watching and
listening, you may need to hearthis and actually do this this
month.
Renee Richel (39:42):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (39:43):
Try to spend a little bit of silence in your
quiet time.
And by silence I mean silence.
I don't want you to read verseson the page of your Bible.
I don't want you to pray.
I want you to quietly receive,breathe deeply, and spend three
to ten minutes in God'spresence, letting him love you.
Look at God, looking at you inlove, and wait for him.
(40:05):
By the way, that's really superhard to do.
We're all super busy anddistracted.
Um there's one writer who said,like, my brain is like monkeys
in a banana tree when I try anddo that.
So, so so if you have a hundredissues that are distracting
you, that's a hundredopportunities to literally just
hand them over to Jesus andsettle with him and try that
over six, ten, twelve, fourteen,thirty days to spend a little
(40:27):
bit of silence dripping.
But then in solitude, I'd sayeither this month or this
quarter, try to set aside atleast two hours to be quiet with
the Lord.
A local park, a library, aroom, an Airbnb, and just say,
God, I'm just gonna let you meetwith me.
Even if I'm experiencing thepain of someone who hurt me, I'm
gonna let you have space tolove me.
Renee Richel (40:47):
I love that advice.
That is such a good tip.
And I think also to listen towhatever a breakup is, to clear
out that toxic, you know, maybewhatever feelings or thoughts or
emotions were said that that isnot who you are, and listen to
what Lord the Lord tells you,you know, who you are too.
(41:08):
So I love that.
Great, great advice.
And as a pastor, what's onepiece of wisdom you wish more
singles preparing for marriagewould take seriously from the
start of a new relationship?
Talking about, you know, doingpremarital and watching couples
then be all about the marriageand the wedding, and or actually
more about the wedding thansometimes the marriage, and they
(41:30):
skip the beat of then aftermarried, what that actually
looks like.
So I that's a great question.
Pastor Bob Martin (41:36):
Yeah, I think um, yeah, that's really good.
Um, I think probably you bringyou into marriage.
Um, I think that's what peoplemoving toward marriage need to
hear.
Like, you're not just it's notjust the glamour of the wedding
day.
And man, many of you guyswatching and listening, like
you're you might be on the way,moving toward that wedding day,
(41:56):
and you have a vision and yougot a board, you got a Pinterest
board, you got so you got allthis stuff that you're ready to
go, and that's cool, that can bebeautiful, right?
I'm really thankful we ended uphaving a beautiful wedding day.
That's great.
But like you alluded to, Renee,marriage is about what happens
after that wedding day.
The wedding day is just thefront door of the house.
And wouldn't it be a shame ifyour front door was so beautiful
and it had like a pottery barand wreath on it, and it like
(42:19):
restoration hardware doorknob,and like it was just gorgeous,
right?
Painted with whatever the toplevel paint is.
The door was glamorous.
And then you walked into thehouse and it was a shambles.
That is not what you want foryour marriage.
So here's what you just need toknow: like, you bring you into
the marriage.
You, you, there's there's onlyone thing in the whole, my dad
(42:39):
growing up, used to always saythis to me there's only one
thing in the whole world you cancontrol, and that's your
response.
You can't control the responseof your spouse to be.
You get to control you.
So here's the question I thinkwe need to ask as we're moving
toward that covenant, because itis a covenant, it's a life and
promise before God and others.
And that's my prayer.
I'm getting to do premaritalcounseling right now with some
couples, and my I'll let themknow my prayer for you is that
(43:00):
God would prepare you to makethis covenant before Him and
others, because it's that big ofa deal.
We're not used to covenants andlifelong promises as much in
our culture, but that's what itis.
Renee Richel (43:10):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (43:10):
Um, and and here's what I would say
bring you into marriage, are youasking the question, am I
becoming more like Jesus?
Right?
So here's the question.
What if you didn't just obeythe teachings of Jesus, but also
sought to live the lifestyle ofJesus?
Right?
Renee Richel (43:29):
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Martin (43:30):
So that you're following in his word,
you're living his life, yourlife is based on his rhythms,
and he's building his characterwithin you.
Because it's it's usually goingto be the least glamorous
virtues that are the mostimportant in marriage.
I tell people, I've told thisbefore, like, man, when you read
the fruit of the spirit, theleast sexy of all of them is
patience, right?
Like, who cares?
(43:51):
Right?
Love and joy and like all thissort of stuff.
But in marriage, and myexperience, what my spouse has
needed for me, right?
And God's graciously growing mein is patience over a long haul
with others.
That's the character of Jesus.
So let him start growing Jesus'character in you, and that'll
make you better prepared thanhaving the perfect floral
(44:13):
arrangement.
Renee Richel (44:14):
Well, like they say, practice makes perfection.
And starting off practicingwhile you're single is the best
seat to be in than beingsomebody that didn't practice
and is married and now struggleswith that.
So again, when you're singleand you're learning all these
little nuggets, practice themnow.
So you're never in that seat ofdoubt when you're married,
(44:35):
which I love to summarize prettymuch everything that I feel
like you've said.
And I would love anybody that'slistening to this that is
looking for a church either inthe Indianapolis area or wants
to hear more inspiring messagesfrom your community.
How do people find you?
Pastor Bob Martin (44:52):
Yep.
So they can find College ParkChurch at yourchurch.com and
they can find more resourcesabout loneliness and a lot of
other things like that in thespiritual life at binmin.org.
That's b-in-m-in- dot org.
Renee Richel (45:06):
I love that.
And we'll put those notes forpeople to find as well in our
community so that we can all oneheart, one couple, one village
or community at a time, inspireeach other to do more of God's
work.
So thank you so much, Bob, forjoining us today.
And I know we'll have you backon with more talks of
conversations.
And I hope you have a blessedrest of your week and continue
(45:29):
to spread the word of whatyou're doing to so many hearts.
Pastor Bob Martin (45:31):
Thank you so much, Renee.
It's great.
Renee Richel (45:38):
It's been another great talk on this episode of 1
True Talks by Renee Richel.
I look forward to our nextchat.
Please write in your questionsand comments so I can be sure to
talk about whatever it is youwant to discuss in our next
upcoming episode.
Lots of love.
God bless, XOXO.
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