November 15, 2022 • 40 mins
Will Sarni discusses why we should "Do good things" That we need to "Learn to say No or Hell Yeah" and explains the power of unreasonable people. Hosted by Siebe Van Der Zee
About Will SarniWill Sarni is the founder and CEO of Water Foundry a water strategy consultancy. He is also the CEO of the The Future of Water Fund, a water technology venture fund focused on addressing water scarcity, quality and equitable access to water. He has been a sustainability and water strategy advisor to multinationals, water technology companies, investors, and non-governmental organizations for his entire career.
Prior to Water Foundry, he was a managing director at Deloitte Consulting where he established and led the water strategy practice. He was the founder and CEO of DOMANI, a sustainability strategy firm, prior to Deloitte.
Will is an internationally recognized thought leader on water strategy and innovation. He was ranked as; A Key Player Pressuring Businesses to Care About Water and one of the Top 15 Interviews In Smart Water Magazine 2019. Sarni is the author numerous publications on water strategy and innovation including the following books.
- “Corporate Water Strategies”
- “Water Tech – A Guide to Investment, Innovation and Business Opportunities in the Water Sector”
- “Beyond the Energy – Water – Food Nexus: New Strategies for 21st Century Growth”
- “Water Stewardship and Business Value: Creating Abundance from Scarcity”
- “Creating 21st Century Abundance through Public Policy Innovation: Moving Beyond Business as Usual”
- “Digital Water: New Technologies for a More Resilient, Secure and Equitable Water Future”
He also has a children’s book on water, “Water, I Wonder?”
Sarni is a co-founder of WetDATA and a host of the podcast, The Stream with Will and Tom. He is a board member of Silver Bullet, Project WET and the Rocky Mountain Rowing Club. He was the Chairman of the Scientific Advisory Board for the WAITRO Global Water Innovation Summit 2020 and was on the Scientific Program Committee for Stockholm World Water Week from 2013 through 2019. His advisory work includes working with the 2020 X-PRIZE (Infinity Water Prize), as a Bold Visioneer for the 2016 X-PRIZE Safe Drinking Water Team and a Technical Advisor for the Climate Bonds Initiative: Nature- Based Solutions for Climate and Water Resilience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I believe that, change happens typicallywith people that reject the status quo.
(00:06):
And it's amazing what Unreasonablepeople can accomplish.
It's people that believe we can dobetter and challenge the status quo.
Not for the sake of just challengingit, but believe that we could do better.
(00:26):
Hello and welcome to our program,10 Lessons Learned, where we talk
to business people, journalists,professors, ambassadors, leaders, and
luminaries from all over the world.
My name is Siebe Van DerZee and I'm your host.
I'm originally from theNetherlands, happily residing in
the beautiful Grand Canyon stateof Arizona in the United States.
(00:48):
I'm also known as theDutchman in the desert.
Our guest Sarni is Will Sarni.
Will is an internationallyrecognized thought leader and
water strategy and innovationexpert based in Denver, Colorado.
Will is the founder and CEO of WaterFoundry, a water strategy consulting firm.
(01:09):
He's also the CEO of the ColoradoRiver Basin Fund, also known
as the Future of Water Fund, aWater Technology Venture Fund.
Focused on addressing water scarcity,quality and equitable access to water.
Before that, Will Sarni served asthe managing director at Deloitte
Consulting, where he managedthe water strategy practice.
(01:32):
He is also the author of numerouspublications on water Strategy and
Innovation, and most recently he wrotea children's book on water titled Water
I Wonder?
With a question mark . In other words,during his entire career, Will Sarni has
been an advisor on sustainability andwater strategy issues to multinationals
(01:55):
water technology companies, investors,and non-governmental organizations.
Very impressive.
You can learn more about Will Sarnion our website 10 lessons learned.com.
Hello, Will thank you for joining us.
Well, thank you for the invitation.
Excited to be here.
it's sort of perfect on a Friday tohave a soul searching conversation.
(02:16):
Here we are.
Absolutely.
Now, before we get to your 10 lessons,I'm curious because your background,
has been focused on water issues.
I would say your whole career,perhaps your whole life.
What inspired you?
What, what was the driving element there?
Well, great question.
how did I get hooked on water?
(02:38):
I grew up in New York and when Iwas in high school, when college,
I started surfing on Long Island.
still a little bit of that New Yorkaccent with Long Island as you notice.
so I became, you know,attracted to water the ocean.
Thought I wanted to go into oceanography.
My master's thesis wasactually on oceanography.
But when I was in graduateschool, I got a job with a
(03:00):
company called Geraghty & Miller.
And it was a, boutique groundwaterconsulting firm founded by several
US Geological Survey, practitionersprofessionals, and really got hooked on.
This, mission, if you will and all thetechnical things associated with it to
(03:20):
deliver, to find and deliver safe drinkingwater and water for other purposes.
So, in a way, I started with saltwater and wound up with fresh water.
And now it's probably some sort ofa combination, that was the journey.
So graduate school, working forGeraghty & Miller was, was really the
hook for me, to learn more and do more.
It brought you into that topic.
(03:42):
we think about and talk about waterissues, there are obviously around
the globe lots of challenges and.
Simple question.
Almost the conclusionperhaps of a conversation.
How worried are you or are youoptimistic that we can deal
with these water challenges?
(04:03):
Well, I gonna sound like aconsultant here and say both.
So yeah, I am, I'm worried enough tohave it sort of propel me to do more.
and, you know, get upand have at it every day.
but I'm a, you know, a realistic optimist.
You know, that's, that wasone of my comments to you
that, Yeah, I'm optimistic.
(04:24):
I believe we can solve thesechallenges, you know, water and
social issues and, and climate butwe have to be realistic about it.
It, it's not, you know,hope it's okay if we.
Actually commit to it and do what wecan individually and collectively, then
yeah, we, we can, we can solve these
(04:45):
If I think of politics, if I thinkof regulators, think of perhaps solar
energy in the past in particular, Itseems like there are solutions, but
is the cooperation there, get it done?
Yeah, that, that's a great question.
So, one thing I learned from agood friend Tom Higley is something
(05:09):
about wicked problems and wickedproblems have a definition.
And what I really love about thedefinition is that wicked problems cannot
be solved, solved by anyone's stakeholder.
So it really requires everystakeholder group to leverage
their skills, their reach, Youknow, capabilities and, and so on.
(05:32):
And the way to think about it is,well, you mentioned the public sector.
Public sector has scale, but no speed.
So they're very slow toinnovate, very slow to change.
It's incredibly frustrating whereentrepreneurs and investors and, and
even multinationals have greater speed.
(05:52):
The ability to pivot and so on.
So imagine bringing together, youknow, those two, those few stakeholder
groups and everybody in betweento solve wicked problem and, and
that's really what we need to see.
Yeah, it is, you know,it's not holding hands.
It is honoring what these individualstakeholder groups and you know,
(06:13):
individuals can bring to the table.
And then, you know, ofcourse civil society.
the the role of the individual.
So yeah, we, we have an opportunityto do things together and you
know, solve these problems.
But we sometimes don't do a great job.
You say it very politely,but I, I understand and,
(06:34):
and, and you're an optimist.
Will and I, I appreciate that.
We're gonna be talking about your 10lessons learned right in your life, in
your career, and that addresses morethan just water issues, of course.
But is there a lesson perhaps, thatyou have learned in your life that
you would like to teach yourself.
(06:55):
If you were 30 years old today,you may be a few years older, but
, I'm a few years older.
Yes, definitely.
And I've got the great beard to proveSo that's a, another great question.
And I, did think about it carefully.
would say I wish I was.
I wish I was more entrepreneurial a desireto build things early on in my career.
(07:19):
maybe it's not unusual, but you know,if I look at the front end of my career,
it was really about learning and itwas working with others and learning
from others, opposed to, well, maybeI should go build a company, go start
something, be more of an entrepreneur.
So, had to scroll back, I wouldsay, you know, take more risk.
You know, be less fearful if youwill go build something or be part
(07:45):
of a team that's building something,they have an appetite for that now.
It would've been nice to havethat appetite a few decades ago.
that that's, you know, one lesson.
Yeah.
And.
I kicked that around from times to timemyself because, be helpful to have sort of
a, a steady course to learn things mm-hmm.
that you may need later.
(08:07):
started out in bankingwell, I'm very happy I did.
I learned a lot, even.
For the last, whatever, 20 years.
I'm not involved in banking,but it was a good basis.
At the same time, when youlook back and say, Wow.
I could have skipped some of that withmy current knowledge, , because Right.
entrepreneurial spirit, veryhealthy, I think for anybody, right.
(08:31):
To, to think about what you can do asan individual, how you can contribute,
how you can participate, et cetera.
So I, can align with that thought.
Yeah.
It's good to look
back . It always is.
It always is.
Now looking back, let's talk aboutyour 10 lessons and lesson number one.
generosity and kindness.
(08:51):
Well, I'm all for it, but whatare your thoughts on that?
I I need to sort of giveyou a little bit of context.
I, I grew up in Jackson Heights,Queens grew up in an apartment.
my grandparents were immigrants.
My parents were children of the, youknow, they were depression children.
And you know, in, in hindsightI thought we were wealthy, but I
(09:14):
don't know that we really were.
But what little we had we weregenerous to, you know, family,
friends, neighbors, and, a good thing.
It was, you know, be kind, be generous.
didn't always play out well.
but, you know, those were exceptions.
Those were not, not the rules.
(09:35):
So I would say that is one of the earliestthings that I learned from my grandparents
who truly had nothing when they showed up.
And my parents and, and my family,
family, parents.
how about teachers orpeople in the neighborhood?
they have the same mindset?
Yeah, it, it, they really did.
I mean, it was you know, anincredibly diverse community,
(10:00):
which was a gift growing up.
everyone was reallymostly in the same boat.
You know, they did not have a lot, butwhat they had they were generous with.
And looking back, it, it reallywas a gift that , we sort of cherish
some very basic things, you know,food and, you know, laughter.
Not that everything was always amusing,but it was very close and very sharing
(10:23):
and, and I would say very kind.
And there, there's actually afamily that, grew up with that
I'm still very close with.
Yeah.
And you know, that'sa, that's a g real gift
values given by your family,caretakers, environment.
And it, it, it's still with you.
Right?
I hope so.
I do my best to hold onto that.
(10:45):
Yeah.
let's move to lesson number two.
Work hard and as you indicate, adepression era work ethic, right.
Yes.
So, very much a, a workhard, view of the world.
You know, I got my first job when I 15.
And you know, maybe that's notunusual for the time, but you know, I
always had that, you know, work hard.
(11:06):
Just that is early 15 is early to start.
It, yes, it, it feltthat way in hindsight.
yeah, that, you know, that view of,you know, work hard, And, it was funny,
when I was working at Geraghty & Miller.
The the head accountant in thefirm, made a comment one day
about, Yeah, we have flex time.
You can come in anytime beforenine and leave anytime after five.
(11:27):
And I, I thought that was justa very funny way of putting it,
that, yeah, show up and work hard.
You know, it, it pays off.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
taking a break, how do you,how do you deal with that?
Oh, I don't know that I do agreat job of that candidly.
I I, I have learned that through theyears, know, recently, I would say
(11:52):
during the pandemic I learned a lot,One of which was, you know, caring
for oneself and and having time to.
Just sort of slow down and, and,you know, do the things that
bring you joy you know, work.
I mean, I hate the wordwork, but you know, what I do
professionally gives me joy.
So it doesn't feel likethis is an abrupt change.
But yeah, making time for itself anddoing things that you know, are not,
(12:17):
professionally related is important.
You just mentioned the work that you do.
You like it, it's likea hobby perhaps, right?
Isn't that the challenge as wellto manage that and say, Hey, I
need to do something different?
Yes.
absolutely because you could, youknow, you could just sort of continue
(12:37):
down this path and spend all of yourtime doing, you know, what you love.
But it's, it's pretty one dimensional andit's, it's not, not really that healthy.
And I'll, I'll give you an example,and this is maybe gonna be a
longer answer than, time for it.
But before the pandemic,I took up rowing sculling.
And, hooked on it.
(12:57):
Mm-hmm.
, hooked on Sculling and, scullingand, and rowing in a sweet boat.
And I found that it was great forme physically and mentally, and it
also provided an intersection with myprofessional life in that I had the
ability to bring in, other practitionersin the world of water stewardship
(13:18):
and conservation in particularwwf, work with my rowing club.
Yeah.
And work with the communitysounding the reservoir.
So it was something different, butalso got me to think differently about.
What I do professionally and how thatintersects with something that really
brings me joy, you know, rowing and, andyou know, the entire rowing community.
(13:42):
So, I continue to work on It's agrowth opportunity in terms of finding
spare time and or making spare time.
No, I can see that combinationand, and how important that is.
I think that's, that's, well, it isfor me, but I think for many people
the same, to do certain things thatare different than your daily work.
It's a good distraction andit creates that balance.
(14:05):
I agree with you.
All right.
Well, let's take a lookat lesson number three.
Do good things.
Nobody can deny that.
Well, Oh, come on.
You know, that's not true.
I knew I got you going.
Yeah.
I think that that was a total setup.
sounds so obvious.
(14:26):
you know, in a lot of ways it ties to itemone, you know, generosity and kindness.
went to Davos or Davo in January of2020, and it was my first time going and
it was, you know, amazing experience.
And I, I, you know, I met a fewpeople that were doing good things.
(14:46):
I mean, just good things in terms ofphilanthropic initiatives and so on,
and we really just came up with this.
It's like, yeah.
We should promote doing good things.
And it, and it, it's such a simple thoughtand it should be the rudder in your
day, basically just go do good things.
(15:07):
It is a good lesson.
It is a good lesson, yeah.
Right.
And it should be in a way, anautomatic, but that you cannot expect.
Right right.
I think it's also fair to saythat when you do good things for
others, it makes you feel good.
There is a selfishelement perhaps in there.
Well completely agree with you.
(15:28):
It is.
You know what I've done Good.
I, I gave you a shot.
I, I, I got up and hopefullyhad a positive impact on you.
Whomever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I, when you think about that,doing good for others, and yes, you
feel good inside, not just, Well, I'mspending my time on helping others.
(15:50):
No, you're helping yourself ina, in a certain way as well.
I agree.
May not be the first motivator,but it, it's part of it.
I think it's definitely part of it.
It should be a factor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, lesson number four, youwill always have a career in water
as it is a public health issue.
Explain that one.
(16:11):
Where did that come from?
Right.
You know, I'm gonna go back to Geraghty& Miller my first, professional, job
David Miller said that I was havinga conversation with him I think soon
after I came on board to the company.
And you know, he was saying thatif you wanna have a career in
water, you always will have onebecause it's a public health issue.
(16:33):
And you know, here I was a kidin my twenties and you know, this
very accomplished professional.
He gave me some sage advice and it's,it's really proven to be the case.
I mean, I, you know, have a longcareer working in the world of water
doing different things and publichealth issues related to water
(16:55):
have never been more important.
You know, we see that in Flint,we see it in Jackson, We see it in
communities that we know nothingabout that are out there, that don't
have access to safe drinking water.
You know, globally in the US and so on.
So, you know, David's maybe casual commentat, at the time in the hall was it really
stuck and it's, it's really been the case.
(17:17):
And I, I think about that often.
Now you have been in the.
Water business, let's say, your wholecareer for, for quite a few years.
It seems like in the last few yearsworldwide, these water issues have come.
It sounds kind of funny.
It's not meant that way.
To the surface.
Mm-hmm.
(17:37):
, people are aware around the worldwhether there are wildfires that are
not directly related to water, butindirectly there is a link, rivers that
are drying up ocean water that perhapsis rising shortage of water in many areas
around the world, but definitely in theUnited Always have a career in water.
(18:00):
Is that not even more, part of today'sthinking than perhaps 10, 20 years ago?
No, a absolutely agree with you.
you Things have changed ratherdramatically in terms of, you
know, increased awareness youknow, by the public civil society.
Increased attention to the need to changepublic policy and, and regulations.
(18:21):
Increased interest in innovativetechnologies and business models.
It's really for better, for worse.
It's, it has changed.
It's suddenly in the news all the time.
If you were in particular, youknow, where we live, you know?
Yeah.
On the, You're in Arizona.
Yeah.
It's, you know, it's top of mind nowand we're actually seeing things change.
(18:43):
So yeah, the, the time has come.
You know, it was always there as an issuejust in terms of you know, how we think
about water, how we value water, hasreally shifted in the past several years.
Yeah, no, definitely an important lessonfor, for all of us all over the world.
Moving on lesson number five,Hire someone you would work for.
(19:06):
I like it a lot.
I'm a recruiter, as you know.
yeah, there are some people thatI'm not sure if I wanna work for,
but as a, as a goal to say.
That individual, his or herpersonality, and of course their skill
set, that has to be a good matchfor you as, as the hiring person.
(19:26):
Yes.
So, I'll, tell you where that came from.
I, I, I love it cuz itactually came to pass.
I, I, I've been in the world of water.
For almost my entire career, but Ihad a few years where I was working
for an oil and gas company at,of Houston, Atlantic Ridgefield.
and it was Arco Exploration and Igot to do campus recruiting at UT
(19:47):
Austin, and I absolutely loved it.
I mean, really loved campusrecruiting in terms of meeting
some really smart, motivated.
Young folks, and the person thatran the recruiting department at
Arco at the time said that to me.
He said, You know, when you goout, think about whether you
(20:09):
would work for that person.
you know, you are not hiringsomebody just to fill a seat.
You're, you're making, you know, avery important recommendation I thought
about that a lot through my career andthen actually had an opportunity, a
good fortune to work for someone that,that I worked with initially in Denver,
(20:31):
and then hired when I was back eastworking for another consulting firm.
And, working for him was anextraordinary experience that, you
know, I learned a lot from him and,and got to see him differently.
So it was a real gift.
It's unlikely that you would ever hiresomeone where you say, Mm, I'm not
sure if I get along with this person.
(20:55):
And at the same time, if you have a,let's say a checklist of skill sets
or experiences that you're lookingfor, and that person perhaps doesn't
meet all of them, the personality maydrive you to say, Wow, I really would
like to work with him or with her.
Right.
I, you know that, that's important.
(21:15):
Yeah.
It's just really being very,very thoughtful of, do I really
wanna work with this person?
Do I really want one of mycolleagues to work for this person?
Would I wanna work directly,you know, report to that person?
you know, working for Doug Swanson.
A shout out to my good buddy.
That was an extraordinary experience.
You know, he did very different than me.
(21:36):
And, and, you know, wecomplimented each other.
At least I like to think so.
Makes sense.
appreciate that lesson.
We're talking today with Will Sarni,a globally recognized thought leader
on water strategy and innovation,sharing his 10 lessons learned.
I want to thank ouraffiliate partner Audible.
Audible is an amazing wayto experience our program.
(21:57):
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(22:19):
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Back to the lessons.
Lesson number six Will Sarni thePower of unreasonable People.
You got some good lessons here.
Wh where did that come from?
That's actually the title of abook and, I believe that, you
know, change happens typically withpeople that reject the status quo.
(22:43):
And you know, you know, I have a podcastThe Stream with Will and Tom, and we talk
about unreasonable people and it's amazingwhat Unreasonable people can accomplish.
You know, you're, you're one of them.
I mean, the fact that,
and I'm smiling.
Well, right, I know.
It resonates.
It's people that believe we can do better.
(23:08):
and challenge the status quo.
Not for the sake of just challengingit, but believe that we could do better.
And, you know, they investtheir time, their energy,
you know, whatever it may be.
So I believe very stronglyin power, that ability.
And it, it goes back to Ian optimist or, or what?
Well, yes, because I, you know, thisall sort of nets together to me.
(23:32):
I think it's a, great lesson.
I I, and I appreciate your explanationbecause I could take it in, in different
directions unreasonable people.
And I'm saying, are wetalking about politicians?
No, no, no, no.
In gen, Well,
, well, no, I wanna go back to do good things.
So, yeah.
Unreasonable people that do goodthings as opposed to unreasonable
(23:53):
people that don't do good things.
But indeed, questionthe status quo, right?
That's a term that was used years ago.
But it makes sense in my mindindeed, to reexamine where we are,
what we have achieved, and we knowthat over time things are changing.
on, lesson number seven,Learn to say No or Hell yeah.
(24:20):
Yeah.
That's also the title of a book, . And agood friend of mine gave that to me and.
As you might imagine, I, I say yesto almost everything and you know, I,
I think generally it's a good trait.
that saying is a good lens.
It, it's a good way to reallyfocus on things that bring you joy.
(24:41):
That have an impact.
You know, some commercial valuehas to be a subset of that.
But really the ability to, youknow, to say no, you know, very
politely, professionally that I,you know, my dance card is full or.
You know, I'm doing other things, butthe hell yeah part, I mean, that sort
of goes back to some of the things we'vebeen talking about, that, you know, what
(25:04):
brings you joy, what you know, what getsyou up outta bed and propels you forward.
So it's a good tagline.
You know, I, I do mybest to remember that.
I, I think it's helpful.
To tell yourself indeed that you haveto say no , and then perhaps your
passion takes over and say, Well,yeah, but I'm still gonna do this and
(25:25):
I'm still, but next time I shouldn't.
But if you in a way develop the disciplineto say no, that can be helpful in order
to be productive in other areas, right?
You cannot overload yourself.
Nobody will benefit from that.
Right?
And I also believe that you.
You tend to find other things thatshow up that will bring you joy.
(25:47):
So you know, it's not a zero sum game.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, well said, well said.
Lesson number eight.
Be a realistic optimist toleave the world a better place.
Sure.
So that's sort of aconvoluted lesson learned.
But I am an optimist.
(26:09):
I am, I at least I think I'm realisticin terms of how to get things done.
that sort of informs the, justleave the world a better place.
It's, you know, why are we here?
What are we doing?
How do we spend our time?
Yeah.
Do good things have an impactthat is, is very core to what I
do and how I spend my time and whoI spend my time with and so on.
(26:35):
It's very important to me.
In addition to your, your efforts whenit comes to water issues, and I put it
in very broad terms, are there any other.
Issues, topics, you are involved withdirectly or, or from time to time?
So yes, I mean, you know,education, awareness of, you know,
(26:55):
environmental and social issues.
That's important to me.
You know, certainly the intersection ofwater issues and climate, Not that every
water issues climate issue, but wherethey intersect, it's particularly acute.
I, would say food, you know, agriculture,climate change, water, and I, I would
(27:17):
say increasingly the social impacts.
that we're seeing from climate changeand a lack of water or, you know,
lack of access to safe drink of water.
And, and what do you mean withsocial impact in, in that regard?
Yeah.
knows, in the American West, we,we talk about scarcity a lot.
You know, we're in a, youknow, permanent drought and new
(27:38):
normal you know, purification.
That is just one piece of the puzzle.
There is a whole set of issues in theworld of water around a lack of access.
So in Arizona, for example,the Navajo Nation doesn't have
access to safe drinking water.
You know, that's a social issue.
(27:59):
Central Valley, California doesn't have.
Oh, significant portion ofthe population doesn't have
access to safe drinking water.
You know, we see it in Flint, wesee it in Jackson, Mississippi.
So, you know, that's the social sideof it that is, certainly related
to, you know, what we're seeing withthe impacts of climate change on the
American West, for example, but also alack of investment in infrastructure,
(28:23):
aging infrastructure and public policythat's not kept up with reality.
So that's how I frame, you know,the social dimension of, of water.
It feels sometimes that people let'ssay in our generation, whatever it
is, we, it'll, it'll be fine in ourlifetime, you know, yes there's a water
(28:46):
shortage, but eh, for the next 30, 50years, we can probably have enough water.
But if you think about the nextgeneration and indeed grandchildren,
Their children and their grandchildren.
That is of course, a very importantelement as well that we need to manage
(29:06):
today for generations that are comingup over the next 100, maybe 200 years.
Right.
Completely agree with you.
You know, it, it, again, Ikeep doubling back on some of
the earlier things, but Yeah.
Let's do good things.
Think about how do you make the worlda better place while you're around?
Yeah.
You know, what sort of impact you I cango off on a tangent here, but this is
(29:27):
why I, I really push back on using theword drought because if the layperson
hears the word drought, it's, well, okay,if it rains, then everything's okay.
Well, not really, you know,we're not, we're not dealing
with a historical drought.
We're really dealing, dealing with sortof a fundamental shift in the climate
and everything that that impacts.
(29:48):
Yeah.
Long term thinking is a good thing.
Yeah, Good point.
Lesson number nine, Relationshipsand quality of work matters.
that actually came froma couple of people.
I believe I always knewthat relationships mattered.
It, it, you know, ties back to growingup in Jackson Heights and, and you
(30:08):
know, we were talking about youknow, our, our mutual friend John and
John Hoholick.
John Hoholick.
You know, relationships matter.
Well, I will tell you, I've learneda lot from John on that topic.
It's, it's a, you know, a very constant.
And a grateful, reminder thatyeah, relationships matter.
(30:33):
It, it's, it's about those relationships.
So, it's something I, I believeI've always had, but, you know,
having John as a friend and a, anda colleague in the world of water
has punched it up again for me.
quality of work.
That I learned in my first job atGeraghty & Miller Quality mattered.
(30:53):
And I learned how to write, notin college, but I learned when I
got a job at Geraghty & Miller andI, I talked to my former Geraghty
& Miller colleagues once a month.
And we always, you know, recall back thefact that the company had an editor on
staff and if we were writing a report,Burt Weinstein would mark up your draft
(31:18):
with a red pen and throw it on yourdesk and it would be one more time.
And it was usually not one more time.
It was multiple times, but you know.
Learning that quality mattered, youknow, how you pick your words and
paying attention to the technicaldetails and, and really coming up
with finding and conclusions thathonored the data was important.
(31:40):
So fortunate was very early on,
it's, it's perhaps a littleacademic to ask it this way,
but is it indeed in combinationrelationships and quality of work?
Or is it relationships?
And on one hand that'simportant and quality of work.
Someone may do a great job, butperhaps it's not a great relationship.
(32:02):
They are related.
I, I, I believe that's a,that's a really good point.
it, it's the, you know, if you'rethoughtful and do the best you can.
With a person or group of people,It, it creates a quality relationship
you know, hopefully a lastingrelationship, value to, to all parties.
(32:23):
So yeah, there's definitely,It's a Venn diagram.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Isn't it interesting?
I assume you have the same, know,we have, let's say friendships
between people that have lasted.
Over decades.
Yes.
And even if that person is nolonger your neighbor or you know, no
longer in the same school, whatever,that relationship is still there.
(32:45):
I can think of people that Imet 40 years ago and I still
consider them dear friends.
I don't talk to them frequentlyor on a regular basis.
But once we do, we'reback to where we were
. And that's so true.
. Yeah.
For better or for worse, we feel15 again, you know, . But you're
you're Yeah, you're absolutely right.
(33:06):
It, you, you hold onto those relationshipsin a, in a very different way.
Yeah.
And of course, negative experiencescan stick with you as well.
When you get mistreated by someone,and I say it nicely that may be
something you don't forget either.
. Oh, well, that's definitely true.
(33:27):
. That, that, that, that'san off camera conversation.
Yes.
, our
next, our next recording.
Yes.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
lesson number 10.
Well, here we are, lesson number 10,and you given several quotes and I,
I think they're all interesting andI'll read them out and I'll let you
Sure
give the analysis.
The first quote is Work hard.
(33:49):
Stay foolish.
The second quote, the future ishere, just not evenly distributed.
The third one, dreamas if you live forever.
Live as if you'll die today.
Wow.
Your thoughts?
So I, yeah, I, I dunno ifyou'd notice in my email title
(34:10):
blocks, but I use two of and.
I really do love quotes as a way to,you know, sort of sharpen the mind
and, and get people's attention.
start with the futures here,just not evenly distributed.
That's William Gibson, who'sa science fiction author.
He created the cyber punkgenre of science fiction.
(34:32):
And I love that and I, I use italmost in every presentation because
it describes innovation in thewater sector in that it's lumpy.
There are some technologies thatare really advanced being adopted
by utilities in the private sectoror government agencies that are 21st
(34:53):
century, but they're not widely adopted.
So the future's here.
Let's not sort of waitfor something to happen.
Let's go find it and then let's scale it.
And then dream is if you'll liveforever, live as if you'll die today.
James Dean, the actor that's in mypersonal email, and I like that it's,
(35:14):
you know, we talked about being anoptimist and, and you know, Doing
what we do to have a positive impact.
That's really importantthat, that moves you forward.
But also, you know, have a focusthat, you know, every day's a gift.
And being mindful of thatwith that tension of the,
the long view is important.
(35:35):
And then Richard Brandt, who wrotethe Whole Earth Catalog, and I'm
reading his biography right now.
Work hard, stay foolish.
good.
It, it ties back to that, youknow, depression, era work ethic.
Just work hard, but also be foolish,you know, take chances, Which also tied
into, you know, if I had to go back to ayounger version of me, it would be, yeah,
(35:57):
be more foolish, take more chances, bemore entrepreneurial, take some risks.
So I, I, I love those three quote.
Yeah, I think they'reall, they're all good.
And I'm glad you sharedall three of them Right.
For lesson number 10, butthat's, that's very powerful.
It's, it's truly amazing.
When I think about your background,Will, and, I have been doing obviously
(36:19):
a bit of research, what you're doingand consistently is so relevant.
To the whole world.
And I wanna mention that because it's notjust for your neighborhood or your state.
This is something and you do, of course,worldwide work related to water issues.
Extremely, extremely important.
(36:41):
And the lessons that you havelearned in your life and in your
career and, and having said that,I have to add another question.
Of course.
Is there a lesson Will that you haveunlearned in your life and in your career?
So the short answer isyes, going in reverse.
(37:02):
Well, I know that there's at least one.
I'll mention the one that cameto mind and, and you actually
touched on that a little bit.
that it's that work hard, thatdepression era work ethic.
you know, how do you ensure thatyou, you have time for yourself, the
time to do things that are not maybedirectly related to, you work how
(37:22):
you spent in your professional time.
So that's something that I havegotten in recent years in terms of,
yes, work hard, but work smarter.
And working smarter means havingtime to, you recharge your
batteries, to be creative, todo things that are far a field.
(37:43):
We, you know, we talked about rowing.
You know, that was transformative for me,because you can't think of anything else
when you're out on a little boat, right?
Or else you flip the boat.
So, that's a healthy exercise.
So it's.
having a more sophisticated andthoughtful view of just work hard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very, very thoughtful.
(38:03):
Very, very helpful.
I think for many because we are a littlebit sometimes in a race and, look, we both
understand for many people, many families,it's hard work and we're dealing with
inflation and we're dealing with all kindsof pressure taking care of our families.
So it's, it's important to be able to takea break and put things in perspective and
(38:29):
at the same time, I almost wanna say it'seasier said than done for many people.
Oh, , right?
I mean,
yeah.
Yes.
That, that's the reality as well.
But to repeat that lesson, becausethat's part of the lessons that you
have learned, and I must admit, Ihave learned very, very important,
and I, I really want to thank youfor, for sharing your wisdoms with us.
(38:51):
thank you for being part.
Our podcast, 10 Lessons Learned.
will make a few closing commentsand, and Will, before I do, is
there anything else you wanna share?
You don't have to, but Idon't wanna cut you off.
Well, I, I wanna thank you forthe opportunity because, you
were a catalyst to help me think.
About what's important, you know, howdid I wind up here and what do I believe?
(39:17):
So thank you for yeah,it was very helpful.
I feel humbled when you say thatbecause if, if I make Will Sarni think
well it, you know, it might be thefirst time in my entire life that I,
I, I've been thinking, but You gotme really doing some soul searching
and, and that's really important.
(39:39):
Well, I, I thank you for that.
And, and that's of course what we'regonna share with our global audience.
closing, you have been listening to theInternational Program, 10 Lessons Learned.
This program is produced by RobertHossary, and as always, we are supported
by the Professional Development Forum.
Our guests today Will Sarni aglobally recognized thought leader
(40:02):
on water strategy and innovation.
Sharing his 10 lessons learned andto our audience, Don't forget to
leave us a review or a comment.
You can also email us atpodcast@10lessonslearned.com.
That is podcast number tenone zero lessons learned.com.
I hope you will subscribe so youdon't miss any future episodes.
(40:25):
And remember, this is a podcastthat makes the world wiser
and wiser, lesson by lesson.
Thank you and stay safe.
I believe that, change happens typicallywith people that reject the status quo.
(00:06):
And it's amazing what Unreasonablepeople can accomplish.
It's people that believe we can dobetter and challenge the status quo.
Not for the sake of just challengingit, but believe that we could do better.
(00:26):
Hello and welcome to our program,10 Lessons Learned, where we talk
to business people, journalists,professors, ambassadors, leaders, and
luminaries from all over the world.
My name is Siebe Van DerZee and I'm your host.
I'm originally from theNetherlands, happily residing in
the beautiful Grand Canyon stateof Arizona in the United States.
(00:48):
I'm also known as theDutchman in the desert.
Our guest Sarni is Will Sarni.
Will is an internationallyrecognized thought leader and
water strategy and innovationexpert based in Denver, Colorado.
Will is the founder and CEO of WaterFoundry, a water strategy consulting firm.
(01:09):
He's also the CEO of the ColoradoRiver Basin Fund, also known
as the Future of Water Fund, aWater Technology Venture Fund.
Focused on addressing water scarcity,quality and equitable access to water.
Before that, Will Sarni served asthe managing director at Deloitte
Consulting, where he managedthe water strategy practice.
(01:32):
He is also the author of numerouspublications on water Strategy and
Innovation, and most recently he wrotea children's book on water titled Water
I Wonder?
With a question mark . In other words,during his entire career, Will Sarni has
been an advisor on sustainability andwater strategy issues to multinationals
(01:55):
water technology companies, investors,and non-governmental organizations.
Very impressive.
You can learn more about Will Sarnion our website 10 lessons learned.com.
Hello, Will thank you for joining us.
Well, thank you for the invitation.
Excited to be here.
it's sort of perfect on a Friday tohave a soul searching conversation.
(02:16):
Here we are.
Absolutely.
Now, before we get to your 10 lessons,I'm curious because your background,
has been focused on water issues.
I would say your whole career,perhaps your whole life.
What inspired you?
What, what was the driving element there?
Well, great question.
how did I get hooked on water?
(02:38):
I grew up in New York and when Iwas in high school, when college,
I started surfing on Long Island.
still a little bit of that New Yorkaccent with Long Island as you notice.
so I became, you know,attracted to water the ocean.
Thought I wanted to go into oceanography.
My master's thesis wasactually on oceanography.
But when I was in graduateschool, I got a job with a
(03:00):
company called Geraghty & Miller.
And it was a, boutique groundwaterconsulting firm founded by several
US Geological Survey, practitionersprofessionals, and really got hooked on.
This, mission, if you will and all thetechnical things associated with it to
(03:20):
deliver, to find and deliver safe drinkingwater and water for other purposes.
So, in a way, I started with saltwater and wound up with fresh water.
And now it's probably some sort ofa combination, that was the journey.
So graduate school, working forGeraghty & Miller was, was really the
hook for me, to learn more and do more.
It brought you into that topic.
(03:42):
we think about and talk about waterissues, there are obviously around
the globe lots of challenges and.
Simple question.
Almost the conclusionperhaps of a conversation.
How worried are you or are youoptimistic that we can deal
with these water challenges?
(04:03):
Well, I gonna sound like aconsultant here and say both.
So yeah, I am, I'm worried enough tohave it sort of propel me to do more.
and, you know, get upand have at it every day.
but I'm a, you know, a realistic optimist.
You know, that's, that wasone of my comments to you
that, Yeah, I'm optimistic.
(04:24):
I believe we can solve thesechallenges, you know, water and
social issues and, and climate butwe have to be realistic about it.
It, it's not, you know,hope it's okay if we.
Actually commit to it and do what wecan individually and collectively, then
yeah, we, we can, we can solve these
(04:45):
If I think of politics, if I thinkof regulators, think of perhaps solar
energy in the past in particular, Itseems like there are solutions, but
is the cooperation there, get it done?
Yeah, that, that's a great question.
So, one thing I learned from agood friend Tom Higley is something
(05:09):
about wicked problems and wickedproblems have a definition.
And what I really love about thedefinition is that wicked problems cannot
be solved, solved by anyone's stakeholder.
So it really requires everystakeholder group to leverage
their skills, their reach, Youknow, capabilities and, and so on.
(05:32):
And the way to think about it is,well, you mentioned the public sector.
Public sector has scale, but no speed.
So they're very slow toinnovate, very slow to change.
It's incredibly frustrating whereentrepreneurs and investors and, and
even multinationals have greater speed.
(05:52):
The ability to pivot and so on.
So imagine bringing together, youknow, those two, those few stakeholder
groups and everybody in betweento solve wicked problem and, and
that's really what we need to see.
Yeah, it is, you know,it's not holding hands.
It is honoring what these individualstakeholder groups and you know,
(06:13):
individuals can bring to the table.
And then, you know, ofcourse civil society.
the the role of the individual.
So yeah, we, we have an opportunityto do things together and you
know, solve these problems.
But we sometimes don't do a great job.
You say it very politely,but I, I understand and,
(06:34):
and, and you're an optimist.
Will and I, I appreciate that.
We're gonna be talking about your 10lessons learned right in your life, in
your career, and that addresses morethan just water issues, of course.
But is there a lesson perhaps, thatyou have learned in your life that
you would like to teach yourself.
(06:55):
If you were 30 years old today,you may be a few years older, but
, I'm a few years older.
Yes, definitely.
And I've got the great beard to proveSo that's a, another great question.
And I, did think about it carefully.
would say I wish I was.
I wish I was more entrepreneurial a desireto build things early on in my career.
(07:19):
maybe it's not unusual, but you know,if I look at the front end of my career,
it was really about learning and itwas working with others and learning
from others, opposed to, well, maybeI should go build a company, go start
something, be more of an entrepreneur.
So, had to scroll back, I wouldsay, you know, take more risk.
You know, be less fearful if youwill go build something or be part
(07:45):
of a team that's building something,they have an appetite for that now.
It would've been nice to havethat appetite a few decades ago.
that that's, you know, one lesson.
Yeah.
And.
I kicked that around from times to timemyself because, be helpful to have sort of
a, a steady course to learn things mm-hmm.
that you may need later.
(08:07):
started out in bankingwell, I'm very happy I did.
I learned a lot, even.
For the last, whatever, 20 years.
I'm not involved in banking,but it was a good basis.
At the same time, when youlook back and say, Wow.
I could have skipped some of that withmy current knowledge, , because Right.
entrepreneurial spirit, veryhealthy, I think for anybody, right.
(08:31):
To, to think about what you can do asan individual, how you can contribute,
how you can participate, et cetera.
So I, can align with that thought.
Yeah.
It's good to look
back . It always is.
It always is.
Now looking back, let's talk aboutyour 10 lessons and lesson number one.
generosity and kindness.
(08:51):
Well, I'm all for it, but whatare your thoughts on that?
I I need to sort of giveyou a little bit of context.
I, I grew up in Jackson Heights,Queens grew up in an apartment.
my grandparents were immigrants.
My parents were children of the, youknow, they were depression children.
And you know, in, in hindsightI thought we were wealthy, but I
(09:14):
don't know that we really were.
But what little we had we weregenerous to, you know, family,
friends, neighbors, and, a good thing.
It was, you know, be kind, be generous.
didn't always play out well.
but, you know, those were exceptions.
Those were not, not the rules.
(09:35):
So I would say that is one of the earliestthings that I learned from my grandparents
who truly had nothing when they showed up.
And my parents and, and my family,
family, parents.
how about teachers orpeople in the neighborhood?
they have the same mindset?
Yeah, it, it, they really did.
I mean, it was you know, anincredibly diverse community,
(10:00):
which was a gift growing up.
everyone was reallymostly in the same boat.
You know, they did not have a lot, butwhat they had they were generous with.
And looking back, it, it reallywas a gift that , we sort of cherish
some very basic things, you know,food and, you know, laughter.
Not that everything was always amusing,but it was very close and very sharing
(10:23):
and, and I would say very kind.
And there, there's actually afamily that, grew up with that
I'm still very close with.
Yeah.
And you know, that'sa, that's a g real gift
values given by your family,caretakers, environment.
And it, it, it's still with you.
Right?
I hope so.
I do my best to hold onto that.
(10:45):
Yeah.
let's move to lesson number two.
Work hard and as you indicate, adepression era work ethic, right.
Yes.
So, very much a, a workhard, view of the world.
You know, I got my first job when I 15.
And you know, maybe that's notunusual for the time, but you know, I
always had that, you know, work hard.
(11:06):
Just that is early 15 is early to start.
It, yes, it, it feltthat way in hindsight.
yeah, that, you know, that view of,you know, work hard, And, it was funny,
when I was working at Geraghty & Miller.
The the head accountant in thefirm, made a comment one day
about, Yeah, we have flex time.
You can come in anytime beforenine and leave anytime after five.
(11:27):
And I, I thought that was justa very funny way of putting it,
that, yeah, show up and work hard.
You know, it, it pays off.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
taking a break, how do you,how do you deal with that?
Oh, I don't know that I do agreat job of that candidly.
I I, I have learned that through theyears, know, recently, I would say
(11:52):
during the pandemic I learned a lot,One of which was, you know, caring
for oneself and and having time to.
Just sort of slow down and, and,you know, do the things that
bring you joy you know, work.
I mean, I hate the wordwork, but you know, what I do
professionally gives me joy.
So it doesn't feel likethis is an abrupt change.
But yeah, making time for itself anddoing things that you know, are not,
(12:17):
professionally related is important.
You just mentioned the work that you do.
You like it, it's likea hobby perhaps, right?
Isn't that the challenge as wellto manage that and say, Hey, I
need to do something different?
Yes.
absolutely because you could, youknow, you could just sort of continue
(12:37):
down this path and spend all of yourtime doing, you know, what you love.
But it's, it's pretty one dimensional andit's, it's not, not really that healthy.
And I'll, I'll give you an example,and this is maybe gonna be a
longer answer than, time for it.
But before the pandemic,I took up rowing sculling.
And, hooked on it.
(12:57):
Mm-hmm.
, hooked on Sculling and, scullingand, and rowing in a sweet boat.
And I found that it was great forme physically and mentally, and it
also provided an intersection with myprofessional life in that I had the
ability to bring in, other practitionersin the world of water stewardship
(13:18):
and conservation in particularwwf, work with my rowing club.
Yeah.
And work with the communitysounding the reservoir.
So it was something different, butalso got me to think differently about.
What I do professionally and how thatintersects with something that really
brings me joy, you know, rowing and, andyou know, the entire rowing community.
(13:42):
So, I continue to work on It's agrowth opportunity in terms of finding
spare time and or making spare time.
No, I can see that combinationand, and how important that is.
I think that's, that's, well, it isfor me, but I think for many people
the same, to do certain things thatare different than your daily work.
It's a good distraction andit creates that balance.
(14:05):
I agree with you.
All right.
Well, let's take a lookat lesson number three.
Do good things.
Nobody can deny that.
Well, Oh, come on.
You know, that's not true.
I knew I got you going.
Yeah.
I think that that was a total setup.
sounds so obvious.
(14:26):
you know, in a lot of ways it ties to itemone, you know, generosity and kindness.
went to Davos or Davo in January of2020, and it was my first time going and
it was, you know, amazing experience.
And I, I, you know, I met a fewpeople that were doing good things.
(14:46):
I mean, just good things in terms ofphilanthropic initiatives and so on,
and we really just came up with this.
It's like, yeah.
We should promote doing good things.
And it, and it, it's such a simple thoughtand it should be the rudder in your
day, basically just go do good things.
(15:07):
It is a good lesson.
It is a good lesson, yeah.
Right.
And it should be in a way, anautomatic, but that you cannot expect.
Right right.
I think it's also fair to saythat when you do good things for
others, it makes you feel good.
There is a selfishelement perhaps in there.
Well completely agree with you.
(15:28):
It is.
You know what I've done Good.
I, I gave you a shot.
I, I, I got up and hopefullyhad a positive impact on you.
Whomever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I, when you think about that,doing good for others, and yes, you
feel good inside, not just, Well, I'mspending my time on helping others.
(15:50):
No, you're helping yourself ina, in a certain way as well.
I agree.
May not be the first motivator,but it, it's part of it.
I think it's definitely part of it.
It should be a factor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, lesson number four, youwill always have a career in water
as it is a public health issue.
Explain that one.
(16:11):
Where did that come from?
Right.
You know, I'm gonna go back to Geraghty& Miller my first, professional, job
David Miller said that I was havinga conversation with him I think soon
after I came on board to the company.
And you know, he was saying thatif you wanna have a career in
water, you always will have onebecause it's a public health issue.
(16:33):
And you know, here I was a kidin my twenties and you know, this
very accomplished professional.
He gave me some sage advice and it's,it's really proven to be the case.
I mean, I, you know, have a longcareer working in the world of water
doing different things and publichealth issues related to water
(16:55):
have never been more important.
You know, we see that in Flint,we see it in Jackson, We see it in
communities that we know nothingabout that are out there, that don't
have access to safe drinking water.
You know, globally in the US and so on.
So, you know, David's maybe casual commentat, at the time in the hall was it really
stuck and it's, it's really been the case.
(17:17):
And I, I think about that often.
Now you have been in the.
Water business, let's say, your wholecareer for, for quite a few years.
It seems like in the last few yearsworldwide, these water issues have come.
It sounds kind of funny.
It's not meant that way.
To the surface.
Mm-hmm.
(17:37):
, people are aware around the worldwhether there are wildfires that are
not directly related to water, butindirectly there is a link, rivers that
are drying up ocean water that perhapsis rising shortage of water in many areas
around the world, but definitely in theUnited Always have a career in water.
(18:00):
Is that not even more, part of today'sthinking than perhaps 10, 20 years ago?
No, a absolutely agree with you.
you Things have changed ratherdramatically in terms of, you
know, increased awareness youknow, by the public civil society.
Increased attention to the need to changepublic policy and, and regulations.
(18:21):
Increased interest in innovativetechnologies and business models.
It's really for better, for worse.
It's, it has changed.
It's suddenly in the news all the time.
If you were in particular, youknow, where we live, you know?
Yeah.
On the, You're in Arizona.
Yeah.
It's, you know, it's top of mind nowand we're actually seeing things change.
(18:43):
So yeah, the, the time has come.
You know, it was always there as an issuejust in terms of you know, how we think
about water, how we value water, hasreally shifted in the past several years.
Yeah, no, definitely an important lessonfor, for all of us all over the world.
Moving on lesson number five,Hire someone you would work for.
(19:06):
I like it a lot.
I'm a recruiter, as you know.
yeah, there are some people thatI'm not sure if I wanna work for,
but as a, as a goal to say.
That individual, his or herpersonality, and of course their skill
set, that has to be a good matchfor you as, as the hiring person.
(19:26):
Yes.
So, I'll, tell you where that came from.
I, I, I love it cuz itactually came to pass.
I, I, I've been in the world of water.
For almost my entire career, but Ihad a few years where I was working
for an oil and gas company at,of Houston, Atlantic Ridgefield.
and it was Arco Exploration and Igot to do campus recruiting at UT
(19:47):
Austin, and I absolutely loved it.
I mean, really loved campusrecruiting in terms of meeting
some really smart, motivated.
Young folks, and the person thatran the recruiting department at
Arco at the time said that to me.
He said, You know, when you goout, think about whether you
(20:09):
would work for that person.
you know, you are not hiringsomebody just to fill a seat.
You're, you're making, you know, avery important recommendation I thought
about that a lot through my career andthen actually had an opportunity, a
good fortune to work for someone that,that I worked with initially in Denver,
(20:31):
and then hired when I was back eastworking for another consulting firm.
And, working for him was anextraordinary experience that, you
know, I learned a lot from him and,and got to see him differently.
So it was a real gift.
It's unlikely that you would ever hiresomeone where you say, Mm, I'm not
sure if I get along with this person.
(20:55):
And at the same time, if you have a,let's say a checklist of skill sets
or experiences that you're lookingfor, and that person perhaps doesn't
meet all of them, the personality maydrive you to say, Wow, I really would
like to work with him or with her.
Right.
I, you know that, that's important.
(21:15):
Yeah.
It's just really being very,very thoughtful of, do I really
wanna work with this person?
Do I really want one of mycolleagues to work for this person?
Would I wanna work directly,you know, report to that person?
you know, working for Doug Swanson.
A shout out to my good buddy.
That was an extraordinary experience.
You know, he did very different than me.
(21:36):
And, and, you know, wecomplimented each other.
At least I like to think so.
Makes sense.
appreciate that lesson.
We're talking today with Will Sarni,a globally recognized thought leader
on water strategy and innovation,sharing his 10 lessons learned.
I want to thank ouraffiliate partner Audible.
Audible is an amazing wayto experience our program.
(21:57):
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(22:19):
to get your free 30 day trial.
Back to the lessons.
Lesson number six Will Sarni thePower of unreasonable People.
You got some good lessons here.
Wh where did that come from?
That's actually the title of abook and, I believe that, you
know, change happens typically withpeople that reject the status quo.
(22:43):
And you know, you know, I have a podcastThe Stream with Will and Tom, and we talk
about unreasonable people and it's amazingwhat Unreasonable people can accomplish.
You know, you're, you're one of them.
I mean, the fact that,
and I'm smiling.
Well, right, I know.
It resonates.
It's people that believe we can do better.
(23:08):
and challenge the status quo.
Not for the sake of just challengingit, but believe that we could do better.
And, you know, they investtheir time, their energy,
you know, whatever it may be.
So I believe very stronglyin power, that ability.
And it, it goes back to Ian optimist or, or what?
Well, yes, because I, you know, thisall sort of nets together to me.
(23:32):
I think it's a, great lesson.
I I, and I appreciate your explanationbecause I could take it in, in different
directions unreasonable people.
And I'm saying, are wetalking about politicians?
No, no, no, no.
In gen, Well,
, well, no, I wanna go back to do good things.
So, yeah.
Unreasonable people that do goodthings as opposed to unreasonable
(23:53):
people that don't do good things.
But indeed, questionthe status quo, right?
That's a term that was used years ago.
But it makes sense in my mindindeed, to reexamine where we are,
what we have achieved, and we knowthat over time things are changing.
on, lesson number seven,Learn to say No or Hell yeah.
(24:20):
Yeah.
That's also the title of a book, . And agood friend of mine gave that to me and.
As you might imagine, I, I say yesto almost everything and you know, I,
I think generally it's a good trait.
that saying is a good lens.
It, it's a good way to reallyfocus on things that bring you joy.
(24:41):
That have an impact.
You know, some commercial valuehas to be a subset of that.
But really the ability to, youknow, to say no, you know, very
politely, professionally that I,you know, my dance card is full or.
You know, I'm doing other things, butthe hell yeah part, I mean, that sort
of goes back to some of the things we'vebeen talking about, that, you know, what
(25:04):
brings you joy, what you know, what getsyou up outta bed and propels you forward.
So it's a good tagline.
You know, I, I do mybest to remember that.
I, I think it's helpful.
To tell yourself indeed that you haveto say no , and then perhaps your
passion takes over and say, Well,yeah, but I'm still gonna do this and
(25:25):
I'm still, but next time I shouldn't.
But if you in a way develop the disciplineto say no, that can be helpful in order
to be productive in other areas, right?
You cannot overload yourself.
Nobody will benefit from that.
Right?
And I also believe that you.
You tend to find other things thatshow up that will bring you joy.
(25:47):
So you know, it's not a zero sum game.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, well said, well said.
Lesson number eight.
Be a realistic optimist toleave the world a better place.
Sure.
So that's sort of aconvoluted lesson learned.
But I am an optimist.
(26:09):
I am, I at least I think I'm realisticin terms of how to get things done.
that sort of informs the, justleave the world a better place.
It's, you know, why are we here?
What are we doing?
How do we spend our time?
Yeah.
Do good things have an impactthat is, is very core to what I
do and how I spend my time and whoI spend my time with and so on.
(26:35):
It's very important to me.
In addition to your, your efforts whenit comes to water issues, and I put it
in very broad terms, are there any other.
Issues, topics, you are involved withdirectly or, or from time to time?
So yes, I mean, you know,education, awareness of, you know,
(26:55):
environmental and social issues.
That's important to me.
You know, certainly the intersection ofwater issues and climate, Not that every
water issues climate issue, but wherethey intersect, it's particularly acute.
I, would say food, you know, agriculture,climate change, water, and I, I would
(27:17):
say increasingly the social impacts.
that we're seeing from climate changeand a lack of water or, you know,
lack of access to safe drink of water.
And, and what do you mean withsocial impact in, in that regard?
Yeah.
knows, in the American West, we,we talk about scarcity a lot.
You know, we're in a, youknow, permanent drought and new
(27:38):
normal you know, purification.
That is just one piece of the puzzle.
There is a whole set of issues in theworld of water around a lack of access.
So in Arizona, for example,the Navajo Nation doesn't have
access to safe drinking water.
You know, that's a social issue.
(27:59):
Central Valley, California doesn't have.
Oh, significant portion ofthe population doesn't have
access to safe drinking water.
You know, we see it in Flint, wesee it in Jackson, Mississippi.
So, you know, that's the social sideof it that is, certainly related
to, you know, what we're seeing withthe impacts of climate change on the
American West, for example, but also alack of investment in infrastructure,
(28:23):
aging infrastructure and public policythat's not kept up with reality.
So that's how I frame, you know,the social dimension of, of water.
It feels sometimes that people let'ssay in our generation, whatever it
is, we, it'll, it'll be fine in ourlifetime, you know, yes there's a water
(28:46):
shortage, but eh, for the next 30, 50years, we can probably have enough water.
But if you think about the nextgeneration and indeed grandchildren,
Their children and their grandchildren.
That is of course, a very importantelement as well that we need to manage
(29:06):
today for generations that are comingup over the next 100, maybe 200 years.
Right.
Completely agree with you.
You know, it, it, again, Ikeep doubling back on some of
the earlier things, but Yeah.
Let's do good things.
Think about how do you make the worlda better place while you're around?
Yeah.
You know, what sort of impact you I cango off on a tangent here, but this is
(29:27):
why I, I really push back on using theword drought because if the layperson
hears the word drought, it's, well, okay,if it rains, then everything's okay.
Well, not really, you know,we're not, we're not dealing
with a historical drought.
We're really dealing, dealing with sortof a fundamental shift in the climate
and everything that that impacts.
(29:48):
Yeah.
Long term thinking is a good thing.
Yeah, Good point.
Lesson number nine, Relationshipsand quality of work matters.
that actually came froma couple of people.
I believe I always knewthat relationships mattered.
It, it, you know, ties back to growingup in Jackson Heights and, and you
(30:08):
know, we were talking about youknow, our, our mutual friend John and
John Hoholick.
John Hoholick.
You know, relationships matter.
Well, I will tell you, I've learneda lot from John on that topic.
It's, it's a, you know, a very constant.
And a grateful, reminder thatyeah, relationships matter.
(30:33):
It, it's, it's about those relationships.
So, it's something I, I believeI've always had, but, you know,
having John as a friend and a, anda colleague in the world of water
has punched it up again for me.
quality of work.
That I learned in my first job atGeraghty & Miller Quality mattered.
(30:53):
And I learned how to write, notin college, but I learned when I
got a job at Geraghty & Miller andI, I talked to my former Geraghty
& Miller colleagues once a month.
And we always, you know, recall back thefact that the company had an editor on
staff and if we were writing a report,Burt Weinstein would mark up your draft
(31:18):
with a red pen and throw it on yourdesk and it would be one more time.
And it was usually not one more time.
It was multiple times, but you know.
Learning that quality mattered, youknow, how you pick your words and
paying attention to the technicaldetails and, and really coming up
with finding and conclusions thathonored the data was important.
(31:40):
So fortunate was very early on,
it's, it's perhaps a littleacademic to ask it this way,
but is it indeed in combinationrelationships and quality of work?
Or is it relationships?
And on one hand that'simportant and quality of work.
Someone may do a great job, butperhaps it's not a great relationship.
(32:02):
They are related.
I, I, I believe that's a,that's a really good point.
it, it's the, you know, if you'rethoughtful and do the best you can.
With a person or group of people,It, it creates a quality relationship
you know, hopefully a lastingrelationship, value to, to all parties.
(32:23):
So yeah, there's definitely,It's a Venn diagram.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Isn't it interesting?
I assume you have the same, know,we have, let's say friendships
between people that have lasted.
Over decades.
Yes.
And even if that person is nolonger your neighbor or you know, no
longer in the same school, whatever,that relationship is still there.
(32:45):
I can think of people that Imet 40 years ago and I still
consider them dear friends.
I don't talk to them frequentlyor on a regular basis.
But once we do, we'reback to where we were
. And that's so true.
. Yeah.
For better or for worse, we feel15 again, you know, . But you're
you're Yeah, you're absolutely right.
(33:06):
It, you, you hold onto those relationshipsin a, in a very different way.
Yeah.
And of course, negative experiencescan stick with you as well.
When you get mistreated by someone,and I say it nicely that may be
something you don't forget either.
. Oh, well, that's definitely true.
(33:27):
. That, that, that, that'san off camera conversation.
Yes.
, our
next, our next recording.
Yes.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
lesson number 10.
Well, here we are, lesson number 10,and you given several quotes and I,
I think they're all interesting andI'll read them out and I'll let you
Sure
give the analysis.
The first quote is Work hard.
(33:49):
Stay foolish.
The second quote, the future ishere, just not evenly distributed.
The third one, dreamas if you live forever.
Live as if you'll die today.
Wow.
Your thoughts?
So I, yeah, I, I dunno ifyou'd notice in my email title
(34:10):
blocks, but I use two of and.
I really do love quotes as a way to,you know, sort of sharpen the mind
and, and get people's attention.
start with the futures here,just not evenly distributed.
That's William Gibson, who'sa science fiction author.
He created the cyber punkgenre of science fiction.
(34:32):
And I love that and I, I use italmost in every presentation because
it describes innovation in thewater sector in that it's lumpy.
There are some technologies thatare really advanced being adopted
by utilities in the private sectoror government agencies that are 21st
(34:53):
century, but they're not widely adopted.
So the future's here.
Let's not sort of waitfor something to happen.
Let's go find it and then let's scale it.
And then dream is if you'll liveforever, live as if you'll die today.
James Dean, the actor that's in mypersonal email, and I like that it's,
(35:14):
you know, we talked about being anoptimist and, and you know, Doing
what we do to have a positive impact.
That's really importantthat, that moves you forward.
But also, you know, have a focusthat, you know, every day's a gift.
And being mindful of thatwith that tension of the,
the long view is important.
(35:35):
And then Richard Brandt, who wrotethe Whole Earth Catalog, and I'm
reading his biography right now.
Work hard, stay foolish.
good.
It, it ties back to that, youknow, depression, era work ethic.
Just work hard, but also be foolish,you know, take chances, Which also tied
into, you know, if I had to go back to ayounger version of me, it would be, yeah,
(35:57):
be more foolish, take more chances, bemore entrepreneurial, take some risks.
So I, I, I love those three quote.
Yeah, I think they'reall, they're all good.
And I'm glad you sharedall three of them Right.
For lesson number 10, butthat's, that's very powerful.
It's, it's truly amazing.
When I think about your background,Will, and, I have been doing obviously
(36:19):
a bit of research, what you're doingand consistently is so relevant.
To the whole world.
And I wanna mention that because it's notjust for your neighborhood or your state.
This is something and you do, of course,worldwide work related to water issues.
Extremely, extremely important.
(36:41):
And the lessons that you havelearned in your life and in your
career and, and having said that,I have to add another question.
Of course.
Is there a lesson Will that you haveunlearned in your life and in your career?
So the short answer isyes, going in reverse.
(37:02):
Well, I know that there's at least one.
I'll mention the one that cameto mind and, and you actually
touched on that a little bit.
that it's that work hard, thatdepression era work ethic.
you know, how do you ensure thatyou, you have time for yourself, the
time to do things that are not maybedirectly related to, you work how
(37:22):
you spent in your professional time.
So that's something that I havegotten in recent years in terms of,
yes, work hard, but work smarter.
And working smarter means havingtime to, you recharge your
batteries, to be creative, todo things that are far a field.
(37:43):
We, you know, we talked about rowing.
You know, that was transformative for me,because you can't think of anything else
when you're out on a little boat, right?
Or else you flip the boat.
So, that's a healthy exercise.
So it's.
having a more sophisticated andthoughtful view of just work hard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very, very thoughtful.
(38:03):
Very, very helpful.
I think for many because we are a littlebit sometimes in a race and, look, we both
understand for many people, many families,it's hard work and we're dealing with
inflation and we're dealing with all kindsof pressure taking care of our families.
So it's, it's important to be able to takea break and put things in perspective and
(38:29):
at the same time, I almost wanna say it'seasier said than done for many people.
Oh, , right?
I mean,
yeah.
Yes.
That, that's the reality as well.
But to repeat that lesson, becausethat's part of the lessons that you
have learned, and I must admit, Ihave learned very, very important,
and I, I really want to thank youfor, for sharing your wisdoms with us.
(38:51):
thank you for being part.
Our podcast, 10 Lessons Learned.
will make a few closing commentsand, and Will, before I do, is
there anything else you wanna share?
You don't have to, but Idon't wanna cut you off.
Well, I, I wanna thank you forthe opportunity because, you
were a catalyst to help me think.
About what's important, you know, howdid I wind up here and what do I believe?
(39:17):
So thank you for yeah,it was very helpful.
I feel humbled when you say thatbecause if, if I make Will Sarni think
well it, you know, it might be thefirst time in my entire life that I,
I, I've been thinking, but You gotme really doing some soul searching
and, and that's really important.
(39:39):
Well, I, I thank you for that.
And, and that's of course what we'regonna share with our global audience.
closing, you have been listening to theInternational Program, 10 Lessons Learned.
This program is produced by RobertHossary, and as always, we are supported
by the Professional Development Forum.
Our guests today Will Sarni aglobally recognized thought leader
(40:02):
on water strategy and innovation.
Sharing his 10 lessons learned andto our audience, Don't forget to
leave us a review or a comment.
You can also email us atpodcast@10lessonslearned.com.
That is podcast number tenone zero lessons learned.com.
I hope you will subscribe so youdon't miss any future episodes.
(40:25):
And remember, this is a podcastthat makes the world wiser
and wiser, lesson by lesson.
Thank you and stay safe.
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