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May 29, 2024 • 13 mins

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, I'm sure that plenty of you may have seen,
or if not, you may have heard me mention in
the opener this morning that Darwin business owner John Koenig
has decided to shut shop after what he has described
well as six and a half wonderful years of serving
gelato to the beautiful city of Darwin. But the owner
of John John's Well he took to social media overnight

(00:22):
to notify his customers that he's going to be closing
at the end of the dry season, citing escalating crime
and anti social behavior over the years taking a massive toll.
John joins me in the studio right now. Good morning
to you, John.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Good mornings for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, so good to have you back in the studio.
And look, I wish it was under better circumstances. The
last time you and I spoke, you know, you were
talking to me about an incident that you'd been subjected
to in our CBD where somebody had been in a
fight just next to his shop. They were then threatening you.
You'd had to close your shop for a number of days.

(01:00):
And it's obvious that this issue of crime and violence
and public drunkenness has just taken its toll.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, it's very it's extremely tiring. Every day I'm getting abused,
I'm getting sworn at. You see customers getting sworn at,
tourists getting sworn at, abused, and it's just like, yeah,
it's not even funny, but it's funny. I spoke to
another business owner yesterday and I said, what am I
supposed to say when tourists come in and they tell

(01:30):
me an elderly tourists come in and say is it
safe to walk the streets at night? How do I
answer that? And then I just feel so like it
breaks my heart. This is my home and I'm supposed
to say no, I don't feel safe walking the streets,
let alone. Why would you like? I just I just
hate it. I hate what this city, what our territory
has become.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Look, I agree with you. I was on the plane
back from NUSA on the weekend and I was sitting
next to a bloke and he'd sort of said to me, oh, look,
you know, is it somewhere that's safe to go out
at nighttime? And I like, I had this internal battle
with myself where I kind of went, do I say
do we not really? Or do I say yes, it's
a lovely city, and I sort of said to him, look,
just have your wits about you. You know, sometimes there's
no issues, but other times you might go out and

(02:12):
you might think to yourself, oh goodness me, this doesn't
feel right. And that's you know, I guess that's the
other part of it, isn't it. I'm assuming that some
days you've probably had fantastic days at work, but they're
potentially becoming limited because of that public drunkenness.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, yesterday I was I just finished the gym, it
was about six o'clock, walking back to the shop, and
just as I was posting the social media posters how
that we're closing, there's a guy in the middle of
the road stopping traffic, swearing at everyone. And then in
the park they were just they were loose, yep. And
I just looked at it and I said, this is why.
It's just like it's the universe gives you signs, and

(02:48):
the universe has been giving me science for such a
long time. And I fought out, and I fought and
I fought, and I said, no, it will get better, Katie.
It hasn't gotten better. It's gotten worse. How many people
need to tell you it's getting worse. And I agree
that there's crime everywhere. People always say, John, there's crime everywhere.
If you go to broad Meadows in Melbourne, if you
walk down a dark alleyway, there's going to be crime.
Not on the capital city, the heart of the CBD.

(03:12):
You allow this is the government, the police, the council.
You allow this criminality to fester in the heart of
our city. It's disgusting. I'm over it.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, And look, I think a lot of people are.
There are so many people that are absolutely over it.
I mean, do you think over the last couple of
years you've seen things get worse?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
To be honest, in one twenty two since we've been
in that shop, the anti social behavior in those years
where it was relentless, it was NonStop, yep, but it
wasn't to the level of the criminality that it is
now and the like you will any moment, I can
look outside and someone's probably bashing someone else heading and
then all someone's smashing glass, someone's like threatened to stab someone.

(03:55):
It's just that now it's that level. Before it used
to be like humbuggings up? Can I have some money? Okay?
No ways, Now it's you get sworn at, you get
racially abused, and you're just like I just said no,
and I was like, can you please move on? Can
you not sit here? I just get racially abused. I
was just like, I don't mind a bit of banter
or whatever. We can have a laugh sometimes. I know

(04:16):
so many of the people around my area by their
first name. When they're not intoxicated, they're lovely, and then
when they're not, they just they forget who I am
and they'll say whatever they want and there's no repercussions.
And it's just like six and a half years of
being sworn at repeatedly, it gets tired.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
It does, John, What do you make of you know,
we've spoken a lot on this show about this two
kilometer rule right where you're not supposed to drink within
two kilometers of a takeaway liquor out leash, whether it's
in the city and other parts of the Northern Territory.
Do you think that's working?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Probably not. Actually, to be honest with you, Case Sodans,
I actually don't know what is working, because it's just
that like, I don't mind, and I've said this before
to the council, to whoever's I don't mind if they're
having a drink in the park, like it's sometimes it's nice,
you know, like if you're having a quiet drink, we
all have a quiet drink. Then it just goes from
zero to one hundred. And then I'm getting told by

(05:13):
the council, John, you need to call the police. Okay,
but is it? But what comes first? The chicken or
the egg. It's just like I shouldn't have to call
the police all the time. And then I'm getting told John,
you need to record all these things. I was like,
I'm trying to run a business, yeah, exactly, So I
just stopped. I was like, every day I was calling
the police at least two or three times. They know
my voice, I know their voice, Like that's the So

(05:35):
I just stopped. Stop posting it to the guys. Anyway, John, what.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Luck for you? What was you know, what was the
final tipping point for you over the last couple of.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Weeks that there would be change and then that there
would be more police presence, which immediately there was a
bit of police presence, but it's always it felt like
whenever I needed the police presence, they weren't there, and
then but there was there has been a lot of ink,
So I will say that, And it's not the police spot.
I don't want to have a go at the police.
But it's just tourist numbers are down twenty percent. Everyone

(06:11):
I speak to in most businesses, you know, let's say
eighty twenty eighty percent of the business tell me they
are really doing it tough. Everyone's struggling, especially food and hospitality.
And if they're telling you that they're doing fine, they're
probably lying. And then I looked at it. If we're
ready this bad that peak dry season, what's going to
be for the rest of the dry season and the
wet season. So there's the anti social and the crime. Yeah,

(06:32):
that's one thing. I'm just so over my friends and
family telling me that they do not come into the
city and support my business because they refuse to. And
then people say, well, John, can you move somewhere else,
to wear Casuarina where it's probably worse, you to Parmisan
where it's just as bad.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
And so, John, when your family and friends are saying
to you that they're not coming into the city to
come to your business, is that because of the crime.
Is that because they don't feel safe?

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, they don't feel safe. And it's not just one
or two, it's just like ten twenty fifty people all
seeing the same thing. John, We used to come to
the city. We do not come to the city unless
we have to. Yeah, And you.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Know, after you and I spoke last time, like I
thought to myself, I'm gonna make a real effort to
get into the city.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I did.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I went and I'd go for sushi quite regularly, and
then we came and had an ice cream. Came. You know,
I came into your store to have an ice cream.
And you want to do your best to support local businesses.
But you also, you know, you're in a situation where
you're walking through the city with your young children and
you're thinking, goodness, me, I hope things don't kick off.
But also I don't want my children to think that
this behavior is okay. You know. I don't want them

(07:35):
to think that people being heavily intoxicated and yelling at
each other is okay. And I also don't want them
to think that that's culture, because it's absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
And you know, I've got.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Very like all of my nieces and nephews are indigenous.
I've got like so much of my family is Indigenous,
and they don't believe that that behavior is okay. They
don't think it's all right. So I think we need
to get past this being a real, you know, indigenous
non indigenous issue as well, and we need to actually
start saying the behavior is not all right.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
It's not all right, and it's like you said, I
look for it the children. The most sad thing here
is for the children. Like kids have grown up with
John John's, they've seen John John's. It's and you ask everyone.
You read the comments in the social media post when
people come to dal and they'll always say, go to Kakadu,
go to Litchfield, go to the jumping crops, go to
John John's. We are a destination and it's always been that.

(08:27):
And then when people come in and they tell me John,
We've come from Melbourne because people have told us to come,
that warms my heart. And then they bring their kids
in and then their kids are watching anti social behavior
going on outside, and I'm like, how am I supposed
to explain that to them? And then you look at
the kids. The kids are always watching something wild going
on in the streets, and people think I'm like making

(08:48):
it up, it's not and it's truly not. And then
what are you supposed to do if you see And
I know people get naked or whatever all around the
world and down south and the crime, but it just
happens so often, so frequently, and it's like always at
the ice cream shop.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
It's like, it's not your fault not making people take
their clothes off. No, it's a drinking outside, that's for sure. Mate.
Like I really feel for you because, as I said
last time, when you're on the show, I know you're
a young bloke making a go of it, you know,
and I love that. I love that you self made,
that you have created something that territorians love. And it

(09:25):
breaks my heart that you're in a situation where you
have had to make the decision to shut shop. And
you know, I would imagine that there's been a lot
of factors at play in terms of finally making that decision.
What's next for you, that's.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
A good question. We're just working in the process now
to wind down the business. We've got to get a
closed date with the landlords, so we've got to work
through all those things. But I want to probably take
a break from Darwin and the other thing is well,
dar one will always be home. You know. Someone's like, well,
when it gets better, and when it gets better, John
John's may reopen. It's up to It's up to the

(10:01):
people in charge. And once it's I don't want to
close my shop, people said, ask me, John, do you
want to scale it back? But why scale it back
if I'm always going to be or have my staff
put up with what they're going to do. So until
things get better, there won't be a John John's and
there won't be a lot of businesses in Darwin. So
hopefully it gets fixed soon and I can come back

(10:24):
to the home that I've loved, that I can come
back to my family. But until then, I'll probably go
away somewhere and maybe go do some meditation up in
a mountain.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
You might need it. John, What is your message for
the government? And I know that you know that you
have had enough, But what is your message for the government?
Because I feel like I bang my head against a
wall some days right like I'm literally trying to raise
this with our politicians of every level, each party, you know, independence,
no matter who they are, But what is your message

(10:55):
for them?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's a good question because people have asked me as well,
and I've thought to myself, you know, Darwin's population as well,
one hundred and twenty hundred and forty thousand. The NT
is two hundred and fifty thousand. Things can move and
change so quickly in the NT because it's so small.
You have such a tight knit community that if things
start to shift and change, it doesn't take much to

(11:18):
make good policy or good changes. I'm not saying that
they've got bad policies or whatever, but we should be
able to take control of two hundred thousand people. The
fact that Alice tennant, Catherine and Darwin is in absolute chaos.
It is such a disgrace for Territorians. And like with

(11:39):
the politicians, since two thousand and one, labor has been
in except for the four years of the Giles government.
Giles government was terrible as well since two thousand and one,
and I especially the last eight years, I have witness
my city and my town and my territory that I
love go down the drain, and we are leaving in
droves the last standing territorians that we're here no more.

(12:02):
And the big business guys that I speak to, they've
got so much investment here that they can't leave otherwise
they would and it doesn't take much for them to
like something to happen to their family. They'll go, yeah,
and then all the good people are just going.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
But you know, the point you made there is that
we are a small We are a small territory right.
If we have got the will to turn things around,
it absolutely can be turned around. But the government needs
to have that will. And you know, I'll call it
out that we are in a situation where you and
I aren't making policies. You and I aren't able to
change the direction of the Northern Territory government and the

(12:37):
policies that they make.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
But they are.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
They are in a situation where they can make tough
decisions and they can do things that can genuinely change
the way that the Northern Territory is going at this
point in time, and they have to. They've got to
give people some hope again.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
I agree, And when it changes and things are good again,
I'll come.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Back, John mate, lovely to speak to you this morning.
I'm really sorry that it is for such Yeah, Like,
I'm so sorry that you're in a situation where you're
having to shut your shop. To me, it's pretty heartbreaking.
I think it's really disappointing that we're losing a fantastic
business in our CBD and to me, we should not
have a situation where you're unable to sell ice cream

(13:19):
and gelato safely in a capital city.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
In a capital John, thank you. Thanks mate,
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