December 4, 2025 • 20 mins
Europe’s chip future is being built in real time, and the view from Munich is electric. We sit down with IMEC’s leadership and ESMC’s founding CEO to unpack how pilot lines, a major Dresden fab, and the EU Chips Act are reshaping the continent’s strategy—from research to high-volume manufacturing. Along the way, we track the evolution of Semicon Europa over 50 years, from a supplier-centric expo to a convening force that brings equipment makers, materials leaders, device companies, and end users into one space.
Our guests open the hood on what resilience actually looks like: a 28 nm to 12 nm FinFET roadmap with integrated RRAM for microcontrollers, a half‑million‑wafers‑per‑year target, and a hiring plan that scales with purpose-built training in Dresden and Taiwan. On the R&D front, IMEC’s expanded pilot line infrastructure—fueled by multi‑billion‑euro investment—helps Europe retain technology leadership while translating breakthroughs into products. We also examine advanced packaging, where 3D integration and chiplet architectures blur the line between front end and back end and create fresh opportunities for automotive and industrial electronics.
The conversation gets candid on sovereignty versus interdependence. Full autarky is a myth; durable relevance comes from global collaboration, reverse dependencies, and focus on areas where Europe is indispensable—lithography, metrology, materials, and increasingly packaging and system design. We talk talent, too: why workforce visibility, skills pipelines, and on-the-job training will determine whether ambitious ramps hit their marks. If you care about semiconductors, policy, and the future of manufacturing in Europe, this is your inside track.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review—your support helps more builders and thinkers find us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Francoise von Trapp (00:00):
This episode of the 3D InCites
podcast issponsored by SEMI Europe.
SEMI-Europe is the European armof SEMI, the global industry
association representing theelectronics manufacturing and
design supply chain, connectingmore than 3,000 members and 1.3
million professionals worldwide.
Learn more at semi.org slashEU.
(00:28):
Hi there.
I'm Francoise von Trapp, andthis is the 3D InCites Podcast.
Hi everyone.
This week we are recording livefrom SEMICON Europa 2025 in
Munich, Germany, and it is the50th anniversary of Semicon
(00:48):
Europa.
And so we're going to betalking about this event's past,
presence, and future.
And we're also going to betalking about the theme, which
is global collaborations forEuropean Economic Resilience.
And what role did SemiconEuropa play in supporting this?
And here to talk to me aboutall of this is Luc Vandenhoe
from IMEC and Christian Koitschfrom ESMC, not to be confused
(01:12):
with TSMC.
And we're going to get intothat a little bit also.
So welcome to the podcast,gentlemen.
Before we dive in, I know Luke,you've been on the podcast
before.
Can you just update us on yourrole at IMEC?
Luc Van den hov (01:25):
Well, I'm the president and CEO of IMEC.
I've been doing that for thelast 17 years.
Francoise von Trapp (01:32):
And Christian.
Christian Koitch (01:34):
I'm also the president and managing director
of ESMC.
But unlike Luke, ESMC is ajoint venture that was formed
two years ago.
I was employee number onehelping to set up ESMC since two
years now.
Francoise von Trapp (01:48):
And is it based in Dresden?
Christian Koitch (01:50):
It's based in Dresden, yes.
Francoise von Trapp (01:51):
And are you building a facility right
now?
Christian Koitch (01:53):
Yes.
We are running a largeconstruction site, building a
clean room which has 45,000square meters when it's done,
and will output approximatelyhalf a million wafers per year.
Francoise von Trapp (02:06):
And ESMC is a collaboration of TSMC and
what other companies?
Christian Koitch (02:12):
It's uh TSMC, um, which has 70% of the shares.
And then our uh partners arealso our customers.
Uh we have partnered with uhthree uh well-known European
companies, uh Bosch, Infinian,and NXP.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (02:28):
That makes sense.
Okay.
So who has been to the most ofthe two of you Semicon Europas
over the years?
Does anybody remember the firstone?
I don't think any of us are oldenough to remember the first
one.
When was your first semiconEuropa?
Luc Van den hov (02:45):
Well, to be very honest, uh I've been to so
many semicon Europa that I don'tremember when was my first
time.
Christian?
Christian Koitch (02:52):
I do remember I graduated from university in
2004.
Okay.
And uh my first job was processengineer, iron implant, and
metal in a six-inch facility.
And uh for me, Semicon, thefirst semicon, was a completely
new world.
You know, I saw all theseequipment suppliers, I was very
astonished, uh very um uhimpressed.
Francoise von Trapp (03:14):
So where was the location of your first
one?
My first one was 2007 inStuttgart.
Christian Koitch (03:20):
Okay, I'm not sure.
I was in Switzerland, so for methis was all Germany somewhere
in the U.S.
Francoise von Trapp (03:26):
Okay, so there was, I was talking to
someone earlier, and there wasone in it was in Geneva, I
think, and then also Zurichafter that.
I didn't get on board until2007, and I said, as I said, uh
Stuttgart.
And then there was a few yearswhere it was going back and
forth between Grenoble andDresden.
And then came here, I think, inabout 2017?
(03:51):
It was the first time I wasback, and I think it's great
here in Munich.
And I think IMAC has beenreally partnered with ITF.
When did you start co-locatingITF with Semicon Europa?
Luc Van den hov (04:02):
I don't know, but it must be probably 10 years
ago or so when we started doingthat.
Okay.
Yeah.
Francoise von Trapp (04:08):
Okay.
What role do you think thisevent has played in the growth
of semiconductors in Europe?
Luc Van den hov (04:17):
Well, I I believe that uh I mean semi has
been growing quite a bit.
I think it started really as ashow uh where especially the
suppliers were present, uhequipment and material
suppliers.
But um but over the last coupleof years I think semi has kind
of increased its role and in inthe sense that it's kind of
(04:38):
bringing the entire ecosystem uhtogether.
Also, like the end users, and Ithink for Europe this is very
important in order to kind ofstimulate the demand for uh
advanced technologies.
It's important to bring some ofthese end users, like the car
manufacturers, the automotiveindustry, uh and and and many of
the other end users of Europe,bring them together.
(05:00):
And I think the the fora thathave been uh uh organized uh as
the one that is going on rightnow, um I think it's very
important in order to bring thisecosystem together.
Francoise von Trapp (05:11):
Question?
Christian Koitch (05:12):
Yeah, um I mean maybe adding to what uh
Luke said, um I think uhsemiconductors is an industry
which is uh hard to uh connectto from a general population
point of view, yeah, becauseit's in a clean room, uh nobody
can go there.
Uh so um people understand theimportance, they love ChatGPT,
they love their uh uhsmartphones, but uh seeing the
(05:35):
industry behind uh you needplatforms, forums like uh
Semicon Europa in order to havethe talents uh uh recognizing
that semiconductor is such anexciting industry as it is.
Francoise von Trapp (05:49):
So do you think it's done a lot to support
the workforce development?
Christian Koitch (05:54):
Uh I think I certainly think so, and uh I
hope uh they continue doing thisuh because uh at the moment
ESMC has 80 employees, so 1920still to go.
Francoise von Trapp (06:07):
Oh my goodness.
Christian Koitch (06:08):
Counting on uh on semicon uh to help.
Francoise von Trapp (06:11):
Help with that.
Okay.
So Luke, we mentioned brieflybefore the partnership between
Europa and um IMEC.
Um so how has that partnershipserved IMEC over the years?
Luc Van den hov (06:25):
Well, it has uh I I think in many aspects.
Uh we're working together invery close sense to SEMI.
Uh we are um of courseco-organizing events uh as we're
doing uh right now andtomorrow.
Um but we also work togetherlike on many of the the
subjects.
Uh I think Christian alsoalready referred to uh workforce
development, so we have a lotof activities together, uh, but
(06:47):
also like uh on sustainability.
I mean we have a very bigprogram on sustainability, uh
our SSTS program, where we bringtogether the entire ecosystem
to work on kind of uhquantifying the effect of of the
carbon footprint of advancedchip manufacturing, uh working
on solutions to reduce that.
(07:08):
Um we're doing that with theentire ecosystem.
But SEMI also has a veryimportant program on uh climate
uh evolution, and so um andtheir focus is more on kind of
the the lobbying and thegovernment interactions, so so
and and but our program kind offeeds uh with data into these uh
these activities.
So we work together on so manyfronts.
Francoise von Trapp (07:29):
Yeah.
And it is more than just aboutthe shows, right?
I mean the shows help fund allof semi-Europe's efforts in
policy building and creation.
Christian, we started to talk alittle bit about ESMC as a new
entity in Europe.
And um, can you explain a bitmore about the organization and
the role Semi-Europe andSemi-Europa has played in
(07:51):
sharing your message?
Christian Koitch (07:52):
Yes.
I mean ESMC, the the the fourletters uh have a certain
resemblance to TSMC, and that isnot a coincidence.
I mean, uh it's our uh ourmother, so to speak, but also it
is no coincidence that it isnot uh Germany semiconductor
manufacturing company, but it istruly a European endeavor.
(08:13):
It's also heavily supported bythe European Union via the EU
Chips Act.
For me, um a very tangible,very memorable moment was when
Lathe actually supported us inreaching out also to our
neighbor countries.
So SEMI is present uh in uhmost of the countries in Europe
(08:34):
and it can actually build thatuh bridge so that we can
collaborate with Poland, uh,Czech Republic, Slovakia, uh,
because such a uh hugeinvestment that uh we are doing
with uh more than 10 billioneuro really uh needs support uh
from a lot of different tradesfrom different countries and
their semiconductor is is reallyinstrumental in helping.
Francoise von Trapp (08:59):
So the name ESMC is European
Semiconductor ManufacturingCompany.
Christian Koitch (09:04):
Exactly.
Francoise von Trapp (09:04):
Was it a strategic decision to call it
that and not just call it TemTSMC Europe?
Christian Koitch (09:09):
We are a joint venture.
Right.
Okay.
So in in that sense it wasclear it is not TSMC Europe, but
it is a joint venture, uh adifferent legal entity.
Um and then the shareholders uhthey uh went for ESMC as a
name.
Francoise von Trapp (09:23):
Okay.
Christian Koitch (09:24):
And uh I do remember uh uh then we picked a
logo, all these things that youdo as a startup.
That was very exciting.
Yeah.
Francoise von Trapp (09:31):
So with NXP and Infinian and Bosch all
being partners, does thatdictate the focus of your
technology that will bemanufactured there?
Is it to support, you know, Imean I would say with Infinian
it's probably power electronics,and maybe with um Bosch it's
the mems and sensor side ofthings?
(09:53):
Is that would that be a goodassumption?
Christian Koitch (09:56):
I would say um um both uh Bosch and Infinian,
they are IDMs in part of theirbusiness.
So uh Infinian does uh powersemiconductors very well and
Bosch uh does sensors very well.
Uh for this, they don't needESMC.
This is about uh what uh isneeded in terms of um uh to
(10:18):
build a system and you needadvanced logic.
So our focus will be 28nanometer uh uh CMOS going down
to 12 nanometer FinFed.
This is uh the two coretechnologies we are implementing
with a special focus on newnon-volatile memory uh because
you know embedded flash comes toan end at a certain point, and
(10:40):
we are featuring RRAM to providea cost-optimal solution for
microcontrollers for automotiveindustrial electronics.
Uh, these are the targetapplications for ESMC.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (10:53):
Um Luke, with IMAC, how have things
shifted with regard to the EUChips Act funding?
Has that been able to help IMACdo further development?
Luc Van den hov (11:05):
Absolutely.
Uh I think the Chips Act isextremely important for Europe
as a whole, uh as Christian justexplained uh on the
manufacturing side, but also onthe RD side.
Uh, you know, a very importantpart of the CHIPS Act was Pillar
One, we're focusing onestablishing pilot lines to make
sure that we can maintain ourtechnology leadership.
(11:25):
Uh and uh one of the well, thebiggest uh uh pilot line
actually is uh is positioned atiMac.
So it's kind of an extension ofthe infrastructure that we've
been building up uh over thelast uh decades, which uh has
evolved into what is today theworld's largest independent RD
pilot line.
And with the CHIPS Act, we canembark on a massive expansion
(11:47):
project of that uh facility,adding about a 2.5 billion euro
of investment, which for RD ismassive.
And so this will make sure thatwe can maintain our leadership
position for the next uh decade,I would say.
Francoise von Trapp (12:00):
Okay.
Um now you both just gavekeynotes this morning around the
topic of global collaborationsfor European economic
resilience.
Can you just give us a littlerecap of what you talked about,
Luke?
Luc Van den hov (12:14):
Well, I I think that something like full
resilience, I think fullautonomy in a certain
technology, I think that that isuh is not what we should strive
for.
Because I'm I'm very convincedthat uh the progress that we've
seen in the semiconductorindustry, in the world, uh how
it has evolved over the lastcouple of decades, is clearly
the result of globalcollaboration and
(12:35):
specialization.
Uh the technology becomes sodifficult these days that it is
you you have to bring togetherthe best of the best uh in order
to realize that.
And it's impossible for eachregion to be the best in
everything.
So we have to make sure that wewe continue to strive for
collaboration uh and and makingsure that uh that we work
(13:00):
together.
You create dependencies, butthat means that for Europe we
also have to create reversedependencies.
Uh, and and and that I think iswhat why the CHIPS Act is so
important.
It is the way to kind ofstrengthen our strengths and
make sure that that Europe isalso relevant in the global uh
global ecosystem.
And I think we we do havephenomenal strengths in in
(13:21):
Europe.
I mean, you can't make a chipanywhere in the world without
European technology.
I mean, ASML is uh and and theprocesses on ASML that we work
with, I mean, are are kind ofeverybody needs it.
So uh but on the other hand, Ithink it's also uh kind of
unrealistic to dream that we aregoing to do everything in
Europe without having to bedependent on on other regions.
(13:43):
So so but I think the wholemessage is if we want to
strengthen Europe in this globalvalue chain, we have to make
sure that we really keep ourrelevance, and that's why I
think uh Chipsact is soimportant.
To uh build uh moremanufacturing capability.
I think ESMC is a fantasticexample, uh, and I think we
should do more of that.
(14:04):
Um make sure that we createthese these pilot lines in order
also to stimulate the demand,because to be very frank, Europe
does not have such a big supplychallenge at this moment, it
more has a demand challenge.
We need to make sure that ourend users that they are moving
along and really create a strongdemand for advanced chips
(14:25):
because that's what is needed inorder to be leading in many of
the application domains, likeautomotive, like AI.
So that's why I think the ChIPSAct really has to stimulate
that and focus that.
And that's what the role wherepilot lines are extremely
important to create that demand.
Francoise von Trapp (14:39):
I'm so glad to hear you say that
because for years I've alwaysthought that it is the global
collaboration that has made thisindustry so successful.
And ever since I think maybethe pandemic, we've started
seeing these localization andpeople you know talking about
making sure you have a localecosystem and local supply
(14:59):
chain.
And I've been concerned thatthat would be at the expense of
global collaboration, which hasreally been what's made the
industry such a success.
So I'm really glad to hear yousay that.
Um, Christian?
Christian Koitch (15:10):
Yeah, I mean um uh obviously ESMC is uh uh
part of the solution for more uhEuropean sovereignty.
That is the reason why the EUcommission decided uh uh that uh
ESMC can be supported by the EUCHIPS Act.
And uh our last big publicinformation session was our
groundbreaking.
(15:31):
Yeah, everybody was there, Missvon der Leyen, uh the German
chancellor, uh all across ourshareholders.
Now uh this has been a yearago, so we gave an update on the
project.
Yeah, everybody is keen onunderstanding is it uh on track?
Uh, where are you?
We showed pictures, uh uh bigcranes, shell construction on
(15:52):
the way to inform everybody, allthe sub the suppliers, that
they get ready uh when the FAPis ramping, that everybody uh
has done his homework.
Francoise von Trapp (16:01):
So you're on track for construction.
Christian Koitch (16:05):
Yes.
Francoise von Trapp (16:06):
And then after construction, it all the
tooling happens, right?
And then you mentioned earlierthat you have 80 employees and
you need how many more?
Christian Koitch (16:13):
1120.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (16:16):
So do you think that will be on track for
time to open, or could that holdyou back from being on time?
Christian Koitch (16:22):
First of all, uh we differentiate between
shell construction.
This is currently uh what we'redoing.
Yeah.
Afterwards, uh the technicalinfrastructure will be
installed, all the specialtysystems that you need in order
to run a fab.
Um and then at some pointequipment move in and technology
ramp.
We do everything well prepared,yeah.
Um especially on the trainingside, this should not be
(16:43):
underestimated.
Semiconductor technology hasgrown very complex.
I started as an implantengineer, but I couldn't run an
implant now anymore.
Yeah, so uh things became morecomplex.
And uh we are setting uptraining facilities uh also uh
in Dresden, also in Taiwan, inorder to uh um be prepared uh
(17:03):
when our operational peoplejoin, that they get the
appropriate training uh to beready when the Fab is ramping.
Francoise von Trapp (17:09):
Aaron Ross Powell Okay.
One of the things in the USthat we've been struggling with
is making sure that there'sadvanced packaging at um scale
in the country, which I guessnow MCOR is building its site in
Peoria, Arizona.
What are we doing in Europe tosupport the advanced packaging
side of things?
To be able to do the packagingon shore.
Luc Van den hov (17:34):
Yeah, I think uh here also the pilot lines are
uh providing uh I think a lotof activities in on the research
and prototyping uh sphere forboth.
I mean, when we talk aboutadvanced packaging, I think it's
a very broad spectrum.
It goes from packaging uh kindof 3D heterogeneous integration,
stacking uh of layers, which Ithink is very close to the front
(17:56):
end.
So this this boundary betweenfront-end and back-end packaging
is is kind of blurry to someextent.
And I think TSMC is a very goodexample of uh kind of covering
uh both aspects.
Uh and I think it's it's veryimportant for Europe also to to
uh focus on that also on themanufacturing.
There are a couple of initialinitiatives that are being
launched, but uh but I think inthe future we're going to see
(18:20):
more and more uh need for thischaplet uh kind of integration
techniques.
Uh, like automotive is one ofthe very clear domains where we
will see a very strong demandfrom that side.
So we are setting up severalactivities on also on the design
of these uh chaplet uhconfigurations, uh, but we will
(18:42):
also need to make sure that wefurther boost the manufacturing
side.
Okay.
And there are a couple ofinitiatives in the works.
Francoise von Trapp (18:48):
Okay.
So my last question is kind ofa moving target.
Um, because we all know thatthings keep changing.
But uh as the US imposestariffs on the rest of the
world, what impact do you thinkthat will have on the European
semiconductor industry?
Christian Koitch (19:04):
I mean, on the industry as a whole, I'm not so
sure.
Yeah, it is difficult for me tocomment uh on ESMC in
particular.
I mean, the whole idea is ofsetting up a local manufacturing
for local demand.
Yeah, so in that sense, uh thetariffs do not play a role for
ESMC uh as such, because ourbusiness model is European to
(19:25):
start with.
Luc Van den hov (19:26):
Well, I think that uh tariffs, of course, uh
can have a strong impact.
But what is probably even moreuh important is the
unpredictability of tariffs, uh,kind of how the situation is
changing and uh whether likesemiconductors are exempt or not
from the tariffs, so it's allextremely confusing, and I think
(19:47):
that creates a lot ofuncertainty for the industry,
and that's the biggest effect, Ibelieve.
But as I said before, I I don'tthink that uh systems like
tariffs are are going to impedethe collaboration that is
absolutely needed in order todrive this industry forward.
So so at the end, I thinkeverybody realizes that that we
have to make sure uh that we wefocus on collaboration and make
(20:12):
sure that that continues to bethe drive for innovation in our
industry.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (20:16):
Any final comments you want to make?
I think we said it all.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
It's been a pleasure.
Luc Van den hov (20:23):
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Francoise von Trapp (20:28):
We're in the home stretch now.
Next week, catch our finalepisode of season five of the 3D
Insights podcast.
I'll be reminiscing with ourmembers about Semicon Europa's
past and how they see advancedpackaging evolving in Europe.
You won't want to miss it.
There's lots more to come, sotune in next time to the 3D
Insights podcast.
(20:48):
The 3D Insights Podcast is aproduction of 3D Insights LLC.
This episode of the 3D InCites
podcast issponsored by SEMI Europe.
SEMI-Europe is the European armof SEMI, the global industry
association representing theelectronics manufacturing and
design supply chain, connectingmore than 3,000 members and 1.3
million professionals worldwide.
Learn more at semi.org slashEU.
(00:28):
Hi there.
I'm Francoise von Trapp, andthis is the 3D InCites Podcast.
Hi everyone.
This week we are recording livefrom SEMICON Europa 2025 in
Munich, Germany, and it is the50th anniversary of Semicon
(00:48):
Europa.
And so we're going to betalking about this event's past,
presence, and future.
And we're also going to betalking about the theme, which
is global collaborations forEuropean Economic Resilience.
And what role did SemiconEuropa play in supporting this?
And here to talk to me aboutall of this is Luc Vandenhoe
from IMEC and Christian Koitschfrom ESMC, not to be confused
(01:12):
with TSMC.
And we're going to get intothat a little bit also.
So welcome to the podcast,gentlemen.
Before we dive in, I know Luke,you've been on the podcast
before.
Can you just update us on yourrole at IMEC?
Luc Van den hov (01:25):
Well, I'm the president and CEO of IMEC.
I've been doing that for thelast 17 years.
Francoise von Trapp (01:32):
And Christian.
Christian Koitch (01:34):
I'm also the president and managing director
of ESMC.
But unlike Luke, ESMC is ajoint venture that was formed
two years ago.
I was employee number onehelping to set up ESMC since two
years now.
Francoise von Trapp (01:48):
And is it based in Dresden?
Christian Koitch (01:50):
It's based in Dresden, yes.
Francoise von Trapp (01:51):
And are you building a facility right
now?
Christian Koitch (01:53):
Yes.
We are running a largeconstruction site, building a
clean room which has 45,000square meters when it's done,
and will output approximatelyhalf a million wafers per year.
Francoise von Trapp (02:06):
And ESMC is a collaboration of TSMC and
what other companies?
Christian Koitch (02:12):
It's uh TSMC, um, which has 70% of the shares.
And then our uh partners arealso our customers.
Uh we have partnered with uhthree uh well-known European
companies, uh Bosch, Infinian,and NXP.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (02:28):
That makes sense.
Okay.
So who has been to the most ofthe two of you Semicon Europas
over the years?
Does anybody remember the firstone?
I don't think any of us are oldenough to remember the first
one.
When was your first semiconEuropa?
Luc Van den hov (02:45):
Well, to be very honest, uh I've been to so
many semicon Europa that I don'tremember when was my first
time.
Christian?
Christian Koitch (02:52):
I do remember I graduated from university in
2004.
Okay.
And uh my first job was processengineer, iron implant, and
metal in a six-inch facility.
And uh for me, Semicon, thefirst semicon, was a completely
new world.
You know, I saw all theseequipment suppliers, I was very
astonished, uh very um uhimpressed.
Francoise von Trapp (03:14):
So where was the location of your first
one?
My first one was 2007 inStuttgart.
Christian Koitch (03:20):
Okay, I'm not sure.
I was in Switzerland, so for methis was all Germany somewhere
in the U.S.
Francoise von Trapp (03:26):
Okay, so there was, I was talking to
someone earlier, and there wasone in it was in Geneva, I
think, and then also Zurichafter that.
I didn't get on board until2007, and I said, as I said, uh
Stuttgart.
And then there was a few yearswhere it was going back and
forth between Grenoble andDresden.
And then came here, I think, inabout 2017?
(03:51):
It was the first time I wasback, and I think it's great
here in Munich.
And I think IMAC has beenreally partnered with ITF.
When did you start co-locatingITF with Semicon Europa?
Luc Van den hov (04:02):
I don't know, but it must be probably 10 years
ago or so when we started doingthat.
Okay.
Yeah.
Francoise von Trapp (04:08):
Okay.
What role do you think thisevent has played in the growth
of semiconductors in Europe?
Luc Van den hov (04:17):
Well, I I believe that uh I mean semi has
been growing quite a bit.
I think it started really as ashow uh where especially the
suppliers were present, uhequipment and material
suppliers.
But um but over the last coupleof years I think semi has kind
of increased its role and in inthe sense that it's kind of
(04:38):
bringing the entire ecosystem uhtogether.
Also, like the end users, and Ithink for Europe this is very
important in order to kind ofstimulate the demand for uh
advanced technologies.
It's important to bring some ofthese end users, like the car
manufacturers, the automotiveindustry, uh and and and many of
the other end users of Europe,bring them together.
(05:00):
And I think the the fora thathave been uh uh organized uh as
the one that is going on rightnow, um I think it's very
important in order to bring thisecosystem together.
Francoise von Trapp (05:11):
Question?
Christian Koitch (05:12):
Yeah, um I mean maybe adding to what uh
Luke said, um I think uhsemiconductors is an industry
which is uh hard to uh connectto from a general population
point of view, yeah, becauseit's in a clean room, uh nobody
can go there.
Uh so um people understand theimportance, they love ChatGPT,
they love their uh uhsmartphones, but uh seeing the
(05:35):
industry behind uh you needplatforms, forums like uh
Semicon Europa in order to havethe talents uh uh recognizing
that semiconductor is such anexciting industry as it is.
Francoise von Trapp (05:49):
So do you think it's done a lot to support
the workforce development?
Christian Koitch (05:54):
Uh I think I certainly think so, and uh I
hope uh they continue doing thisuh because uh at the moment
ESMC has 80 employees, so 1920still to go.
Francoise von Trapp (06:07):
Oh my goodness.
Christian Koitch (06:08):
Counting on uh on semicon uh to help.
Francoise von Trapp (06:11):
Help with that.
Okay.
So Luke, we mentioned brieflybefore the partnership between
Europa and um IMEC.
Um so how has that partnershipserved IMEC over the years?
Luc Van den hov (06:25):
Well, it has uh I I think in many aspects.
Uh we're working together invery close sense to SEMI.
Uh we are um of courseco-organizing events uh as we're
doing uh right now andtomorrow.
Um but we also work togetherlike on many of the the
subjects.
Uh I think Christian alsoalready referred to uh workforce
development, so we have a lotof activities together, uh, but
(06:47):
also like uh on sustainability.
I mean we have a very bigprogram on sustainability, uh
our SSTS program, where we bringtogether the entire ecosystem
to work on kind of uhquantifying the effect of of the
carbon footprint of advancedchip manufacturing, uh working
on solutions to reduce that.
(07:08):
Um we're doing that with theentire ecosystem.
But SEMI also has a veryimportant program on uh climate
uh evolution, and so um andtheir focus is more on kind of
the the lobbying and thegovernment interactions, so so
and and but our program kind offeeds uh with data into these uh
these activities.
So we work together on so manyfronts.
Francoise von Trapp (07:29):
Yeah.
And it is more than just aboutthe shows, right?
I mean the shows help fund allof semi-Europe's efforts in
policy building and creation.
Christian, we started to talk alittle bit about ESMC as a new
entity in Europe.
And um, can you explain a bitmore about the organization and
the role Semi-Europe andSemi-Europa has played in
(07:51):
sharing your message?
Christian Koitch (07:52):
Yes.
I mean ESMC, the the the fourletters uh have a certain
resemblance to TSMC, and that isnot a coincidence.
I mean, uh it's our uh ourmother, so to speak, but also it
is no coincidence that it isnot uh Germany semiconductor
manufacturing company, but it istruly a European endeavor.
(08:13):
It's also heavily supported bythe European Union via the EU
Chips Act.
For me, um a very tangible,very memorable moment was when
Lathe actually supported us inreaching out also to our
neighbor countries.
So SEMI is present uh in uhmost of the countries in Europe
(08:34):
and it can actually build thatuh bridge so that we can
collaborate with Poland, uh,Czech Republic, Slovakia, uh,
because such a uh hugeinvestment that uh we are doing
with uh more than 10 billioneuro really uh needs support uh
from a lot of different tradesfrom different countries and
their semiconductor is is reallyinstrumental in helping.
Francoise von Trapp (08:59):
So the name ESMC is European
Semiconductor ManufacturingCompany.
Christian Koitch (09:04):
Exactly.
Francoise von Trapp (09:04):
Was it a strategic decision to call it
that and not just call it TemTSMC Europe?
Christian Koitch (09:09):
We are a joint venture.
Right.
Okay.
So in in that sense it wasclear it is not TSMC Europe, but
it is a joint venture, uh adifferent legal entity.
Um and then the shareholders uhthey uh went for ESMC as a
name.
Francoise von Trapp (09:23):
Okay.
Christian Koitch (09:24):
And uh I do remember uh uh then we picked a
logo, all these things that youdo as a startup.
That was very exciting.
Yeah.
Francoise von Trapp (09:31):
So with NXP and Infinian and Bosch all
being partners, does thatdictate the focus of your
technology that will bemanufactured there?
Is it to support, you know, Imean I would say with Infinian
it's probably power electronics,and maybe with um Bosch it's
the mems and sensor side ofthings?
(09:53):
Is that would that be a goodassumption?
Christian Koitch (09:56):
I would say um um both uh Bosch and Infinian,
they are IDMs in part of theirbusiness.
So uh Infinian does uh powersemiconductors very well and
Bosch uh does sensors very well.
Uh for this, they don't needESMC.
This is about uh what uh isneeded in terms of um uh to
(10:18):
build a system and you needadvanced logic.
So our focus will be 28nanometer uh uh CMOS going down
to 12 nanometer FinFed.
This is uh the two coretechnologies we are implementing
with a special focus on newnon-volatile memory uh because
you know embedded flash comes toan end at a certain point, and
(10:40):
we are featuring RRAM to providea cost-optimal solution for
microcontrollers for automotiveindustrial electronics.
Uh, these are the targetapplications for ESMC.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (10:53):
Um Luke, with IMAC, how have things
shifted with regard to the EUChips Act funding?
Has that been able to help IMACdo further development?
Luc Van den hov (11:05):
Absolutely.
Uh I think the Chips Act isextremely important for Europe
as a whole, uh as Christian justexplained uh on the
manufacturing side, but also onthe RD side.
Uh, you know, a very importantpart of the CHIPS Act was Pillar
One, we're focusing onestablishing pilot lines to make
sure that we can maintain ourtechnology leadership.
(11:25):
Uh and uh one of the well, thebiggest uh uh pilot line
actually is uh is positioned atiMac.
So it's kind of an extension ofthe infrastructure that we've
been building up uh over thelast uh decades, which uh has
evolved into what is today theworld's largest independent RD
pilot line.
And with the CHIPS Act, we canembark on a massive expansion
(11:47):
project of that uh facility,adding about a 2.5 billion euro
of investment, which for RD ismassive.
And so this will make sure thatwe can maintain our leadership
position for the next uh decade,I would say.
Francoise von Trapp (12:00):
Okay.
Um now you both just gavekeynotes this morning around the
topic of global collaborationsfor European economic
resilience.
Can you just give us a littlerecap of what you talked about,
Luke?
Luc Van den hov (12:14):
Well, I I think that something like full
resilience, I think fullautonomy in a certain
technology, I think that that isuh is not what we should strive
for.
Because I'm I'm very convincedthat uh the progress that we've
seen in the semiconductorindustry, in the world, uh how
it has evolved over the lastcouple of decades, is clearly
the result of globalcollaboration and
(12:35):
specialization.
Uh the technology becomes sodifficult these days that it is
you you have to bring togetherthe best of the best uh in order
to realize that.
And it's impossible for eachregion to be the best in
everything.
So we have to make sure that wewe continue to strive for
collaboration uh and and makingsure that uh that we work
(13:00):
together.
You create dependencies, butthat means that for Europe we
also have to create reversedependencies.
Uh, and and and that I think iswhat why the CHIPS Act is so
important.
It is the way to kind ofstrengthen our strengths and
make sure that that Europe isalso relevant in the global uh
global ecosystem.
And I think we we do havephenomenal strengths in in
(13:21):
Europe.
I mean, you can't make a chipanywhere in the world without
European technology.
I mean, ASML is uh and and theprocesses on ASML that we work
with, I mean, are are kind ofeverybody needs it.
So uh but on the other hand, Ithink it's also uh kind of
unrealistic to dream that we aregoing to do everything in
Europe without having to bedependent on on other regions.
(13:43):
So so but I think the wholemessage is if we want to
strengthen Europe in this globalvalue chain, we have to make
sure that we really keep ourrelevance, and that's why I
think uh Chipsact is soimportant.
To uh build uh moremanufacturing capability.
I think ESMC is a fantasticexample, uh, and I think we
should do more of that.
(14:04):
Um make sure that we createthese these pilot lines in order
also to stimulate the demand,because to be very frank, Europe
does not have such a big supplychallenge at this moment, it
more has a demand challenge.
We need to make sure that ourend users that they are moving
along and really create a strongdemand for advanced chips
(14:25):
because that's what is needed inorder to be leading in many of
the application domains, likeautomotive, like AI.
So that's why I think the ChIPSAct really has to stimulate
that and focus that.
And that's what the role wherepilot lines are extremely
important to create that demand.
Francoise von Trapp (14:39):
I'm so glad to hear you say that
because for years I've alwaysthought that it is the global
collaboration that has made thisindustry so successful.
And ever since I think maybethe pandemic, we've started
seeing these localization andpeople you know talking about
making sure you have a localecosystem and local supply
(14:59):
chain.
And I've been concerned thatthat would be at the expense of
global collaboration, which hasreally been what's made the
industry such a success.
So I'm really glad to hear yousay that.
Um, Christian?
Christian Koitch (15:10):
Yeah, I mean um uh obviously ESMC is uh uh
part of the solution for more uhEuropean sovereignty.
That is the reason why the EUcommission decided uh uh that uh
ESMC can be supported by the EUCHIPS Act.
And uh our last big publicinformation session was our
groundbreaking.
(15:31):
Yeah, everybody was there, Missvon der Leyen, uh the German
chancellor, uh all across ourshareholders.
Now uh this has been a yearago, so we gave an update on the
project.
Yeah, everybody is keen onunderstanding is it uh on track?
Uh, where are you?
We showed pictures, uh uh bigcranes, shell construction on
(15:52):
the way to inform everybody, allthe sub the suppliers, that
they get ready uh when the FAPis ramping, that everybody uh
has done his homework.
Francoise von Trapp (16:01):
So you're on track for construction.
Christian Koitch (16:05):
Yes.
Francoise von Trapp (16:06):
And then after construction, it all the
tooling happens, right?
And then you mentioned earlierthat you have 80 employees and
you need how many more?
Christian Koitch (16:13):
1120.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (16:16):
So do you think that will be on track for
time to open, or could that holdyou back from being on time?
Christian Koitch (16:22):
First of all, uh we differentiate between
shell construction.
This is currently uh what we'redoing.
Yeah.
Afterwards, uh the technicalinfrastructure will be
installed, all the specialtysystems that you need in order
to run a fab.
Um and then at some pointequipment move in and technology
ramp.
We do everything well prepared,yeah.
Um especially on the trainingside, this should not be
(16:43):
underestimated.
Semiconductor technology hasgrown very complex.
I started as an implantengineer, but I couldn't run an
implant now anymore.
Yeah, so uh things became morecomplex.
And uh we are setting uptraining facilities uh also uh
in Dresden, also in Taiwan, inorder to uh um be prepared uh
(17:03):
when our operational peoplejoin, that they get the
appropriate training uh to beready when the Fab is ramping.
Francoise von Trapp (17:09):
Aaron Ross Powell Okay.
One of the things in the USthat we've been struggling with
is making sure that there'sadvanced packaging at um scale
in the country, which I guessnow MCOR is building its site in
Peoria, Arizona.
What are we doing in Europe tosupport the advanced packaging
side of things?
To be able to do the packagingon shore.
Luc Van den hov (17:34):
Yeah, I think uh here also the pilot lines are
uh providing uh I think a lotof activities in on the research
and prototyping uh sphere forboth.
I mean, when we talk aboutadvanced packaging, I think it's
a very broad spectrum.
It goes from packaging uh kindof 3D heterogeneous integration,
stacking uh of layers, which Ithink is very close to the front
(17:56):
end.
So this this boundary betweenfront-end and back-end packaging
is is kind of blurry to someextent.
And I think TSMC is a very goodexample of uh kind of covering
uh both aspects.
Uh and I think it's it's veryimportant for Europe also to to
uh focus on that also on themanufacturing.
There are a couple of initialinitiatives that are being
launched, but uh but I think inthe future we're going to see
(18:20):
more and more uh need for thischaplet uh kind of integration
techniques.
Uh, like automotive is one ofthe very clear domains where we
will see a very strong demandfrom that side.
So we are setting up severalactivities on also on the design
of these uh chaplet uhconfigurations, uh, but we will
(18:42):
also need to make sure that wefurther boost the manufacturing
side.
Okay.
And there are a couple ofinitiatives in the works.
Francoise von Trapp (18:48):
Okay.
So my last question is kind ofa moving target.
Um, because we all know thatthings keep changing.
But uh as the US imposestariffs on the rest of the
world, what impact do you thinkthat will have on the European
semiconductor industry?
Christian Koitch (19:04):
I mean, on the industry as a whole, I'm not so
sure.
Yeah, it is difficult for me tocomment uh on ESMC in
particular.
I mean, the whole idea is ofsetting up a local manufacturing
for local demand.
Yeah, so in that sense, uh thetariffs do not play a role for
ESMC uh as such, because ourbusiness model is European to
(19:25):
start with.
Luc Van den hov (19:26):
Well, I think that uh tariffs, of course, uh
can have a strong impact.
But what is probably even moreuh important is the
unpredictability of tariffs, uh,kind of how the situation is
changing and uh whether likesemiconductors are exempt or not
from the tariffs, so it's allextremely confusing, and I think
(19:47):
that creates a lot ofuncertainty for the industry,
and that's the biggest effect, Ibelieve.
But as I said before, I I don'tthink that uh systems like
tariffs are are going to impedethe collaboration that is
absolutely needed in order todrive this industry forward.
So so at the end, I thinkeverybody realizes that that we
have to make sure uh that we wefocus on collaboration and make
(20:12):
sure that that continues to bethe drive for innovation in our
industry.
Okay.
Francoise von Trapp (20:16):
Any final comments you want to make?
I think we said it all.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
It's been a pleasure.
Luc Van den hov (20:23):
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Francoise von Trapp (20:28):
We're in the home stretch now.
Next week, catch our finalepisode of season five of the 3D
Insights podcast.
I'll be reminiscing with ourmembers about Semicon Europa's
past and how they see advancedpackaging evolving in Europe.
You won't want to miss it.
There's lots more to come, sotune in next time to the 3D
Insights podcast.
(20:48):
The 3D Insights Podcast is aproduction of 3D Insights LLC.
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