November 13, 2025 • 32 mins
Power electronics are quietly rewriting the rules of energy use—from the range of your EV to the efficiency of a hyperscale data center. Françoise sits down with Henkel’s Ram Trichur to unpack what’s driving the $67.5B surge in power semiconductors and why the move to wide bandgap materials like silicon carbide and gallium nitride is such a big deal.
We break down the real differences between logic and power devices, then dive into where innovation is happening right now: die attach materials, thermal pathways, and manufacturing processes that can keep up with higher power densities. Ram explains why traditional wirebond packaging remains dominant in power, even as modules climb from 400 V to 800 V and beyond. You’ll learn how the industry is moving from solder to silver sintering for performance, and why copper-based sintering may be the breakthrough that balances cost, reliability, and manufacturability.
From discrete devices to full power modules, we explore the challenges of thinner die, copper leadframes, backside metallization compatibility, and bond line control. Ram shares Henkel’s roadmap for pressure-assisted copper sintering at lower temperatures and pressures in nitrogen, the multi-year qualification path customers expect, and how early sampling shortens time to scale. If you care about EV range, charger efficiency, industrial uptime, or greener data centers, this conversation connects the dots between materials science, packaging engineering, and system-level performance.
If you enjoyed this deep dive, follow the show, share it with a colleague who cares about SiC and GaN, and leave a quick review to help others find us. Got a question or a hot take on copper vs. silver sintering? Drop us a note and join the conversation.
Henke's advanced materials elevate semiconductor packaging to meet power, performance, area and cost
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Françoise von Trapp (00:26):
Electronic technology.
Hi there.
Hi everyone.
(00:52):
This week we're talking withRom Tricher of Henkel
Corporation on the topic that wehaven't really explored before,
and that is power electronics.
Now, this sector of themicroelectronics industry is
projected to become a 67.5billion market by 2030.
And Rom is here to talk aboutwhat's driving that growth and
how to get there.
Welcome to the podcast, Rom.
Ram Trichur (01:13):
Hey, very nice, Francoise.
Long time since we last spoke.
Thanks for having me again.
Françoise von Trapp (01:18):
Yeah, and you've been on before.
So for those who maybe haven'theard you, can you just remind
us of your role at Henkel andyour background a little bit?
Ram Trichur (01:26):
Yes, my name is Ram Tritur.
I head the semiconductorpackaging segment in Henkel.
My background is I'm anelectrical engineer at heart and
training.
I started my career as ahands-on engineer and then moved
on to a more uh uh marketstrategy and business
(01:48):
development uh roles morerecently.
And then I joined Henkelroughly around uh seven to eight
years ago and been heading thesemiconductor practice segment.
Françoise von Trapp (01:59):
I remember when you were at Brewer Science.
Ram Trichur (02:02):
Yes, yes, that was my previous employer.
Françoise von Trapp (02:05):
Yeah, and I remember when you brought
Henkel into 3D Insight.
So thanks for that.
Ram Trichur (02:10):
Yeah, much appreciated.
Always love the podcast seriesand then all the other things
that you do in your website.
Françoise von Trapp (02:18):
Thanks.
I was thinking about this lastnight, and you know, I toss the
word around all the time, like Iknow what I'm talking about,
and I know power electronics andpower semiconductors are
important to automotiveapplications.
But what exactly are they?
And there is there a differencebetween power electronics and
power semiconductors?
Ram Trichur (02:38):
So power semiconductors are the ones that
uh power all the powerelectronics.
That's one way to say it.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (02:45):
You're using the same words to describe
what they are.
Ram Trichur (02:49):
So there is an IC at the heart uh that is either a
silicon-based or it is a whiteband gap semiconductor based.
And often that I see is is likea switch, a transistor, and it
also is accompanied by a driver,and they both uh work together
to uh power on and off and uhconvert voltages and uh uh step
(03:15):
ups or or uh you know convertedinto AC, DC, step down the
voltages, all those functionsare done by power electronics.
Basically, any kind of powerconversion is aided by uh these
power semiconductor devices.
Françoise von Trapp (03:31):
Okay, so they need an integrated circuit,
and I see.
But are they super smart?
Do they need to be super smart?
Ram Trichur (03:39):
Yes, they they there are intelligent power
modules now, they haveadditional functions integrated
for these power conversions.
Yeah, so um there is uh notjust the conversion but also
added intelligence.
unknown (03:54):
Right.
Françoise von Trapp (03:54):
So there's a difference between like your
light switch that goes on thatyou go on and off.
Does that require a powerdevice in there?
Ram Trichur (04:02):
A light switch is more of an electrical device,
uh, but if you take the diode,that is a power device, an LED,
for example.
Okay, that is a diode.
Françoise von Trapp (04:14):
So don't equate electrical with power in
this case.
Ram Trichur (04:17):
The big chunky boxes, yeah, don't equate that
with uh power semiconductor.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (04:22):
But a power semiconductor requires
electricity, like allsemiconductors, to function.
So give me an example of anapplication for a power
semiconductor.
Ram Trichur (04:33):
Let me try to relate this in terms of what we
normally talk about.
So we normally talk aboutadvanced packaging.
Françoise von Trapp (04:41):
Right.
Ram Trichur (04:41):
We talk about data processors, uh, we talk about
application processors, allthat.
So there, the majority functionof those processors uh is to
enhance that data, convert thatdata into uh uh usable output,
but more like uh logic andmemory functioning together to
(05:04):
process the data.
Yeah, right.
Give us intelligence output.
So in a some powersemiconductor device, there is
actually no data ones and zerosor things flowing there.
Yeah.
Okay.
It is really turning on and offsomething.
Um, it's uh conditioning yourpower, stepping up your voltage,
(05:24):
stepping down your voltage.
Um, those are, I would say, amajor difference between a uh
logic device and a power device.
Françoise von Trapp (05:34):
Okay, so that makes sense.
Thank you for clearing that up.
That's why when we havethermostats that are now smart
thermostats, they not only havepower, do they have power
devices in them?
Ram Trichur (05:44):
They have power devices and they have sensors,
they have uh also have logic.
So, and they have displaydrivers because it comes with an
integrated display.
So that's a complete system,that thermostat.
Françoise von Trapp (05:59):
Okay.
So now that we understand whatpower electronics and power
semiconductors are, let's talkabout what's driving this growth
of it says up to 67.5 billionby 2020.
What's driving that?
Ram Trichur (06:14):
Yeah, so the power electronics market, I would say,
is going through a reallyexciting uh transformation uh
right now, uh, driven by uhincreasing demand for energy
efficient solutions across manyverticals like mobility,
industrial, uh data center,communications, mainly due to
(06:38):
rising environmental concernsand also uh stringent energy
regulations by many countries.
I would say there are severalkey trends.
First is uh electrification uhthat's kind of accelerating
everywhere, not just in electricvehicles, uh, but also in uh
(06:59):
transportation, I would say alsorenewable uh energy systems and
also industrial applications.
So it's creating a huge demandfor uh more efficient, higher
power electronics that canhandle stresses of these extreme
applications.
And then uh, secondly, what Iwould say is uh wide-band gap
(07:21):
semiconductors like uh siliconcarbide and gallium nitride are
actually a game changer forpower electronics.
Uh, these are materials thatallow devices to uh switch
faster, operate at uh highervoltages, and also run at high
temperature, meaning compared toa traditional silicon, when
(07:45):
people move to a wide band gapsemiconductor like silicon
carbide or gallium nitride, theycan have smaller, lighter, and
more energy efficient systems.
And then the third one uh is Iwould say uh push for higher
integration and power density.
So we're seeing more compactpower modules uh combining
(08:09):
functions in the same package toreduce size and uh losses.
These are used in data centers,EV chargers, and also uh
sustainability and efficiencyare also becoming uh
non-negotiable.
Yeah, so uh to manage uhstricter efficiency targets, uh
thermal challenges, costpressures, uh, those are some of
(08:31):
the key drivers uh that uhmoves forward power electronics
devices.
Françoise von Trapp (08:36):
So power electronics can help us make
power use more efficient ifthey're built properly.
And that's one of the reasonswe're moving from silicon-based
to compound semiconductor based,right?
Ram Trichur (08:48):
Gallium arsenide and uh silicon carbide, gallium
nitride, yeah, white band cap.
So traditional power electronicdevices are bulky.
Uh so let's say if you you takea car, an EV, one of the major
uh impetus in EV is havinglonger range.
Yeah.
If you add uh weight and volumewith these bulky electronics,
(09:11):
now you're shortening the range.
So moving to uh uh moreefficient power conversion
systems with uh siliconcarbide-based inverters reduces
the weight and volume, henceincreasing the efficiency of the
power electronics and the enddevice in terms of uh uh
mileage.
Françoise von Trapp (09:32):
You said before that the wide band gap
semiconductors run at highertemperature.
Because I thought like wewanted things to be cooler,
because if things run at highertemperatures, then we have to do
all of this cooling.
Ram Trichur (09:44):
So these silicon carbide and uh a gallium
nitride, if they operate athigher junction temperatures,
they perform their functionsmore effectively instead of
lower temperatures, so they canprovide faster switching speeds,
and they are also smaller insize, so they pass a much higher
(10:08):
electrical flux through thesmall dimension.
So naturally, um, there is alot of heat flowing through it,
and thereby comes the need forhigher thermal conductive dietch
materials, meaning hey, atraditional solder may not work
in these high heat fluxconditions.
(10:28):
So we need to switch to morecentered dietch materials to
conduct this heat away from thedevice.
Françoise von Trapp (10:35):
Okay, so we're improving the efficiency
and the performance with thesewideband gap materials, but now
this is creating some otherchallenges where which are
actually right in Henkel's sweetspot, right?
To address.
Ram Trichur (10:52):
That is correct.
Françoise von Trapp (10:54):
From a packaging perspective, is
thermal management one of thechallenges that you have to
address?
Ram Trichur (11:01):
Only, I mean, that's one of the big
challenges.
So if if we're looking at apackaging from a packaging
perspective, it also helps tolook at it from two angles
because power conversion devicesfall under two categories power
discreet and the power modules.
Yeah.
Power discrete devices arereally individual dice packaged
(11:25):
in a discrete package.
It may contain a driver, butit's mainly one switch.
These are like power MOSFETs orIGBTs.
Um, so in power discretedevices, we are seeing a major
shift, like I said, towardswideband gap semiconductors such
as silicon carbide or galliumnitride.
And the key challenge hererevolves around managing higher
(11:49):
power densities, higheroperating temperatures, and
faster switching speeds whilemaintaining cost effective and
high volume manufacturability.
So we'll we'll come back tohey, how are we addressing this
cost effectiveness?
Yeah.
So in this space, uh, there isa clear need for uh next
(12:09):
generation dye attachedmaterials to replace traditional
solders that are used insilicon-based uh power
electronics devices.
We're also seeing a movetowards uh thinner dice, uh,
which again improves theefficiency, but it also
increases the thermal andmechanical stresses on the
package.
Uh, we are also seeing agrowing trend of uh using copper
(12:33):
lead frames to improve uhthermal performance and while
keeping costs under control.
When it comes to power modules,um, the challenges scale up
because these operate at muchhigher voltages, and then the EV
power modules are moving fromuh a traditional 400 volt system
to now 800 and even beyond 1000volts.
(12:56):
Yeah, the use of uh siliconcarbide dyes are becoming
mainstream in EV power modules,and now manufacturers have to
balance power density,reliability, manufacturability
uh while addressing uh thermalperformance.
So I would say again, in powerdiscretes and power modules, the
(13:17):
the challenges are along thesame flavors.
How do you manage cost,reliability, thermal, uh, while
uh switching from a traditionalsilicon-based to uh wideband
gap-based semiconductors?
Françoise von Trapp (13:30):
Okay, so one of the things we've been
talking about a lot in theadvanced packaging side is that
the purpose of packaging isshifting from the protection of
the device to the interconnectand the importance of you know
higher density interconnect.
So it seems to me though thatthis is not the issue in the
(13:51):
power space.
Packaging still plays thetraditional role that it has
always played.
Ram Trichur (13:55):
That is correct.
Yeah.
Here it's not a matter of I/Os,these are all traditional
wirebond packages.
So we're not talking about highdensity I/Os, uh shrinking
pitches, shrinking gaps.
No, that's that's purely in theadvanced packaging side.
Uh, here we are uh dealing withuh mainly thermal warpage, uh,
(14:18):
conductivity, high power, highcurrent, uh, which is unlike a
logic situation.
Françoise von Trapp (14:24):
Okay.
So it's interesting though tohave this conversation because
sometimes people think that weare moving away from traditional
packaging.
But the reality is traditionalpackaging is still very much
alive and probably stillaccounts for maybe, I think,
like 80 to 85 percent of what'sbeing manufactured these days,
right?
Ram Trichur (14:44):
Totally agree.
Françoise von Trapp (14:45):
So we get so focused on the advanced
innovations that get talkedabout.
Like we don't see hybridbonding here.
So we're not even seeing flipchip here.
Ram Trichur (14:53):
That's all traditional wirebond packages.
So in Henkel's portfolio, yeah,we are one of the leaders in uh
uh dye attached materials.
So a lot of this business inwirebon packaging is our core
business.
So when we think of thiswirebon packaging business as a
core business, we see powermodules and power discretes as
(15:18):
an extension of our core or as agrowth area within our core
wirebond business.
So it's not a mature segment,but this is indeed a growth
segment because of the shiftfrom traditional silicon-based
uh power conversion devices tosilicon carbide and gallium
nitride-based power conversiondevices, and all the underlying
(15:39):
trends pushing the volume ofthese wideband gap devices, we
see this as a growth area.
Because if it's asilicon-based, it's
traditionally addressed bysolder, and that is not one of
the materials that Henkelcarries anymore.
So for us, this entireopportunity is a growth area,
just like how we perceiveadvanced packaging as a growth
(16:00):
area.
Anything in high thermal dietchand sintering materials tied to
power electronics is a growtharea.
Françoise von Trapp (16:08):
So we still need massive innovation in the
power electronics space whenwe're shifting from silicon to
wide band gap material.
We're looking again at havingto create devices that are
lighter, that have coolingissues to handle, um, dealing
with different sorts ofsubstrate materials.
(16:29):
So if we're still using wirebond processes, we must be
needing to also innovate thereif we're handling smaller dye,
right?
Ram Trichur (16:38):
That is correct.
So innovation goes hand in handwith any of the new growth
areas.
So here, like I said, um costis a big factor uh for people in
the power electronics industry.
Yeah, when you move from solderto a sintering material, solder
is a uh a cheaper alternative.
(16:59):
When you go to centering, it'susually made with the
silver-based material.
So instead of paying forsolder, now you have to pay for
silver in that same bond line.
And if you if you've noticedhow much silver prices have gone
up in the past few months, youdon't want to pay for silver for
it.
Okay, so there is a bigopportunity for Henkel and
(17:21):
companies like Henkel in thisspace to offer alternate for
silver-based pressure centeringor silver-based centering
material.
So here Henkel is investingquite heavily in uh uh a roadmap
for copper-based uh centeringmaterial.
So that's that's one of theinnovations um that is
(17:42):
supporting a um uh costpressures uh for our customers.
Françoise von Trapp (17:47):
We've just been talking about a few of
them.
What about some of the othercustomer pain points you can
talk about that Henkel tries toaddress?
Ram Trichur (17:54):
Yeah, so our customer pain points again tend
to fall into several consistentareas.
Okay.
Uh, first and foremost, it'sreliability.
Power semiconductor devices andmodules need to perform
flawlessly for multiple years inhigh voltage, high temperature
operations, often in verydemanding environments that are
(18:16):
found in electric vehicles orindustrial equipment.
And then another key challengeis the compatibility with a wide
range of die sizes and backsidemetallizations that are in
these dice.
With the shift to wideband gapsemiconductors, the packages
must accommodate thinner dies,often strange geometries like
(18:37):
the very slim rectangular diesthat we commonly see in telecom
applications.
And also thermal performance,like I said, is always critical.
Uh, die attached and centeringmaterials need to manage heat
quite efficiently, um, and thenalso offer very specific range
of thermal conductivitiesdepending on what is the
(18:59):
package, what is the uh devicetype, and also specific bond
line thickness.
And lastly, like I said, costoptimization, supply stability
are also on top of the mind forour customers, as uh all these
manufacturers need to ensurereliable uh production runs
(19:19):
without any unexpected delays.
And and beyond all this,technical and operational
concerns, our customers are alsolooking for partners with
foresight, which is hey, do youhave a strong innovation roadmap
and ability to anticipate whatwe need in our next generation
of semiconductor banking?
(19:40):
So they don't want onlysolutions for what their needs
are today, but they want it tobe future proof and we they need
suppliers to uh support a uhroadmap uh beyond uh what it is
visible for the next few years.
So that's where Henkel uhstrength is.
(20:00):
You know, like I said, we'vebeen in the wirebond and dietch
for a very long time, more than50 years.
Um, so customers value thisexpertise, and uh uh we're also
very glad that they come to usuh for these uh uh roadmaps.
Françoise von Trapp (20:16):
Good thoughts.
First of all, uh you weretalking about the cost of
silver, and that made me thinkabout the geopolitical issues
with rare earth minerals.
Um, and how is that situationimpacting Henkel's ability to
deliver to their customers witha consistent supply of the
(20:36):
materials that they're lookingfor?
Ram Trichur (20:38):
Yeah, silver is not a mineral that's um
gate-checked um in any of theseuh geopolitical issues, uh, but
silver is a precious metal andthe costs are increasing, and
there's a lot of surprises inthe market.
Uh, like I said, it's beenvolatile um uh with high peaks
(20:59):
and sudden dips in the last uhuh several months.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (21:04):
What about copper?
Ram Trichur (21:05):
Copper is a much more general traded metal, yeah.
So it's uh much cheaper thansilver.
Um, so that's a uh alternativeuh that people consider as quite
viable.
But copper has not yet beenused as a dietch material uh
yet.
Okay.
Um, so there is a lot to beproven to say, hey, copper is a
(21:29):
viable alternative.
But already in our innovationefforts, we've uh sampled this
to multiple customers, and allthe tests are proving quite
strong in terms of uhreliability data,
processability, all that.
Uh, we do expect with all thenew innovations that's happening
now, copper will be a veryviable replacement for uh silver
(21:50):
in the near future.
Françoise von Trapp (21:52):
When you're talking about your development
roadmap, one of the things I doknow about materials and
microelectronics is that toqualify in a new material takes
a really long time, andcustomers will stick with what
they have for as long as theycan because it's such a big
deal.
So, how far out do you have toconsider when you're doing your
(22:16):
roadmaps for these kinds ofthings?
Ram Trichur (22:18):
Yeah, so we plan for five to 10 years out for a
roadmap because in semiconductorpackaging, you start an
innovation now, you get aqualification probably three to
four years later, if you'relucky and everything goes on.
Yeah.
Um, and so there needs to be alot of patience for both the
(22:39):
customers and the uh suppliersto take part.
So that that goes through foralso power semiconductors.
And then we have innovationinvestments in to address both
the power discreet and also uhpower modules.
Uh, maybe I can talk a littlebit about what we're doing in uh
power discretes and powermodules and we can expand on it.
(23:01):
Yeah.
So for power discretes, like Isaid, again, the major shift is
uh going towards silicon carbideand gallium nitride, and also
addressing uh larger dye sizesup to eight by eight, for
example.
So we have uh large dyepressureless sintering materials
in our roadmap.
(23:21):
And then, like I said,customers want to convert to
copper lead frame.
So we have uh pressurelesssintering materials that are
compatible with copper leadframe, and also if uh customers
move to uh thin dyes in thesepower discreets.
Now we're investing in uh uhfilm-based approaches, uh
(23:44):
dispensable approaches fordietch, these pressure sintering
dietch materials to becompatible with thin dye.
Because as dye is thin, youdon't want the dye attached
material to creep back up ontothe top.
So you need some formulationmodifications or format
modifications to be compatiblewith thin dye.
And then also, like I said,there there needs to be
(24:06):
customized thermal conductivityfor different packages.
So if a solder is beingreplaced, um, the thermal
conductivity of solder isanywhere around uh uh 20 to 50
watts.
So if solder is being replacedwith a sintering material or a
high thermal dietch, people areexpecting 50 to 100 watt-based
um dietatch material.
(24:27):
So here also we're we're havingpressurless sintering material
as well as uh our epoxy-baseddiet hatch expanding in thermal
conductivity to 50 to 100 watts.
So these are some of ourinnovation investments in uh
power discretes, again,addressing large dye, copper
lead frame, thin dye, multipleuh BSMs, backside metallization
(24:51):
in uh in dyes.
And then if you take powermodules, now traditionally I
said like solder has been used.
And then when it moves tohigher voltages, silver-based
pressure sintering has been usedin power modules.
So now what Henkel is reallytrying to intercept is the next
inflection.
Silver is too expensive, westill need a sintering die
(25:13):
attached material.
Henkel is investing inpressure-assisted copper-based
sintering dye attached material.
Um, so these are micron-basedcopper that can bond the dye to
substrate bond line, and alsoanother bond line below the
substrate and base plate, whichwhich we call as large area
(25:34):
centering.
So two bond lines.
One is dye to sub with thecopper-based centering
materials, pressure centeringmaterials, and then substrate to
base plate with thecopper-based pressure centering
materials.
So these are uh the uhportfolio that we have in
innovation, and we're engagingwith the all the top-tier
(25:54):
customers that are doing boththe discrete semiconductors,
power semiconductors, as well asthe power modules.
Françoise von Trapp (26:01):
So, with copper difference from silver in
the processing, you do have todeal with the potential for
oxidation.
Correct?
Correct.
So, is there something specificabout the tools for the dietch?
If they're going to be usingcopper material to do dietch, do
the tools have to have aspecial environment to reduce
(26:22):
the amount of um oxidation thatcan happen?
Ram Trichur (26:26):
Yeah, that's a great question, Francoise.
Yeah, so in our uh copper-basedpressure sintering material,
the formulation itself isstabilized with special
ingredients.
So there is uh not oxidationhappening in the formulation.
And when we do the uh actualsintering diet, it is conducted
in a nitrogen environment, andwhere we actually offer value to
(26:51):
our customers is the sinteringhappens at much lower
temperatures around 225 degreesC, and then at also lower
pressures around 15 to 20megapascals.
So that's how we uh do thecopper-based sintering materials
and attach it to the dye.
Françoise von Trapp (27:12):
Well, that's very cool because that
means you don't have to considerall of these other things like
special surface treatment beforeor protective coatings.
Ram Trichur (27:21):
That is right.
Françoise von Trapp (27:22):
So this is really interesting.
Is this something that isavailable to your customers
already?
That is correct.
Or is it in development?
Ram Trichur (27:29):
That is correct.
It is uh available to ourcustomers, it's in development,
but samples are available to thecustomers.
This is not a commercialproduct, but we're uh sampling
uh widely to our uh targetcustomers um for this uh
pressure assisted centering.
Françoise von Trapp (27:45):
So when you are doing sampling to your
customers, this is part of theprocess to qualify the material
that is correct into so that youcan then bring it into
production.
Ram Trichur (27:54):
That is correct.
We engage with our customers atthe early design phase, and um
this inflection is somethingthat we predict that will
happen.
So we sample very early thecustomers and they have a long
qualification cycle, like Isaid, multiple years.
Françoise von Trapp (28:10):
And by the time they're ready to implement
it, you've got it taken care of.
Ram Trichur (28:16):
That is correct.
Yeah, I mean, we obviously needa first customer to take it to
the finish line.
So that that'll be our launch.
Right.
And then once we launch it, wescale the multiple.
And if there are formulationtweaks that are needed uh for
other customers, uh, we we arevery capable of making those.
Françoise von Trapp (28:34):
Are customers willing to be the
guinea pig?
Ram Trichur (28:37):
Yes, because always customers look for new
technologies because it givesthem certain advantages in the
marketplace.
If if they are uh havingdevices um that are made more
cost effective, if they arehaving devices that are made
more operationally friendly,like in this case at a lower
(28:59):
pressure and a lowertemperature, these gives them
advantages.
Obviously, all these devicesneed to be at least as good or
better in terms of reliabilitycompared to previous
generations.
So if we offer all thoseadvantages with uh process and
cost uh benefits to ourcustomers, they're willing to
try that.
Françoise von Trapp (29:18):
So if a customer wants to engage with
you to be part of this, howwould they go about doing that?
Ram Trichur (29:25):
We have a very good assessment of the market.
So we know who are the targetcustomers, who are our strategic
customers, who will have uh abig impact uh in terms of uh
business as well as volumes.
Um, so we knock on their doors,we work very closely with them.
Obviously, uh, if we misssomeone, we invite enquiries and
(29:49):
uh we have a way to feel thisuh uh throughout uh the world.
Yeah, we have uh uh salesoffices, uh engineers, so very
easy uh for our customers.
Reach us.
I don't think there is a singlecustomer that we we are not
knocking on the doors of orwe're not present, but yeah,
very easy to reach us.
Françoise von Trapp (30:08):
So Hankel is a global corporation and you
have many different divisions.
Where are most of theelectronic materials
manufactured?
Ram Trichur (30:16):
So our electronic materials are manufactured in uh
uh US.
We have a facility in Rancho,uh, we have a facility in uh
China near Shanghai, uh, we havea major plant in Korea and also
in uh Japan.
I would say these four sitesare our major manufacturing
(30:37):
sites, uh, but Henkel has otherfacilities that we can also turn
on if needed.
unknown (30:42):
Okay.
Françoise von Trapp (30:43):
Any final thoughts that you wanted to
share today?
Ram Trichur (30:47):
Yeah, I mean, I want to end this on a uh
positive, uplifting note becauseuh as we look ahead, I see
power electronics market isgrowing faster than ever due to
uh electrification and adoptionof these wideband gap
semiconductor devices.
Uh, this this growth createsexciting opportunities for
(31:08):
everyone in the value chain anduh Tankel, we're uh very proud
to invest in uh uh continuouslyin this innovation, offering our
broad market-proven portfolioof uh materials uh for diet and
also centric.
So uh looking forward, thereare even more opportunities uh
for material innovation as thedevices become more powerful and
(31:31):
uh the systems push the limitof thermal and electrical
performance.
And I uh want to thank our uhpartners because uh our success
comes from strong partnershipsuh with our customers, upstream
raw material suppliers,equipment partners, and uh
broader ecosystems.
So I feel together we cantackle uh the toughest
(31:54):
challenges and uh bring newsolutions to the market faster.
Françoise von Trapp (31:58):
Well, thank you so much for your time
today, Ram.
I really appreciate it.
It was really interestinglearning a little more about
power electronics and Henkel'srole in it.
Ram Trichur (32:07):
Hey, thank you so much, Francois.
It's really a lot of pleasuretalking to you all anytime.
Françoise von Trapp (32:16):
Coming up next on the 3D Insights podcast,
I talk with Nietza Bosoko,Julia Goldstein, and Ann
Meiksner, three women who aresemiconductor industry
professionals.
They all contributed chaptersto a new book, Empowering Women
in STEM Pioneering Paths toShape the Future.
They share their journeys, whatmakes them passionate about
technology, and how they arepaying it forward.
(32:38):
There's lots more to come, sotune in next time to the 3D
Insights podcast.
The 3D Insights podcast is aproduction of 3D Insights Lake.
Electronic technology.
Hi there.
Hi everyone.
(00:52):
This week we're talking withRom Tricher of Henkel
Corporation on the topic that wehaven't really explored before,
and that is power electronics.
Now, this sector of themicroelectronics industry is
projected to become a 67.5billion market by 2030.
And Rom is here to talk aboutwhat's driving that growth and
how to get there.
Welcome to the podcast, Rom.
Ram Trichur (01:13):
Hey, very nice, Francoise.
Long time since we last spoke.
Thanks for having me again.
Françoise von Trapp (01:18):
Yeah, and you've been on before.
So for those who maybe haven'theard you, can you just remind
us of your role at Henkel andyour background a little bit?
Ram Trichur (01:26):
Yes, my name is Ram Tritur.
I head the semiconductorpackaging segment in Henkel.
My background is I'm anelectrical engineer at heart and
training.
I started my career as ahands-on engineer and then moved
on to a more uh uh marketstrategy and business
(01:48):
development uh roles morerecently.
And then I joined Henkelroughly around uh seven to eight
years ago and been heading thesemiconductor practice segment.
Françoise von Trapp (01:59):
I remember when you were at Brewer Science.
Ram Trichur (02:02):
Yes, yes, that was my previous employer.
Françoise von Trapp (02:05):
Yeah, and I remember when you brought
Henkel into 3D Insight.
So thanks for that.
Ram Trichur (02:10):
Yeah, much appreciated.
Always love the podcast seriesand then all the other things
that you do in your website.
Françoise von Trapp (02:18):
Thanks.
I was thinking about this lastnight, and you know, I toss the
word around all the time, like Iknow what I'm talking about,
and I know power electronics andpower semiconductors are
important to automotiveapplications.
But what exactly are they?
And there is there a differencebetween power electronics and
power semiconductors?
Ram Trichur (02:38):
So power semiconductors are the ones that
uh power all the powerelectronics.
That's one way to say it.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (02:45):
You're using the same words to describe
what they are.
Ram Trichur (02:49):
So there is an IC at the heart uh that is either a
silicon-based or it is a whiteband gap semiconductor based.
And often that I see is is likea switch, a transistor, and it
also is accompanied by a driver,and they both uh work together
to uh power on and off and uhconvert voltages and uh uh step
(03:15):
ups or or uh you know convertedinto AC, DC, step down the
voltages, all those functionsare done by power electronics.
Basically, any kind of powerconversion is aided by uh these
power semiconductor devices.
Françoise von Trapp (03:31):
Okay, so they need an integrated circuit,
and I see.
But are they super smart?
Do they need to be super smart?
Ram Trichur (03:39):
Yes, they they there are intelligent power
modules now, they haveadditional functions integrated
for these power conversions.
Yeah, so um there is uh notjust the conversion but also
added intelligence.
unknown (03:54):
Right.
Françoise von Trapp (03:54):
So there's a difference between like your
light switch that goes on thatyou go on and off.
Does that require a powerdevice in there?
Ram Trichur (04:02):
A light switch is more of an electrical device,
uh, but if you take the diode,that is a power device, an LED,
for example.
Okay, that is a diode.
Françoise von Trapp (04:14):
So don't equate electrical with power in
this case.
Ram Trichur (04:17):
The big chunky boxes, yeah, don't equate that
with uh power semiconductor.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (04:22):
But a power semiconductor requires
electricity, like allsemiconductors, to function.
So give me an example of anapplication for a power
semiconductor.
Ram Trichur (04:33):
Let me try to relate this in terms of what we
normally talk about.
So we normally talk aboutadvanced packaging.
Françoise von Trapp (04:41):
Right.
Ram Trichur (04:41):
We talk about data processors, uh, we talk about
application processors, allthat.
So there, the majority functionof those processors uh is to
enhance that data, convert thatdata into uh uh usable output,
but more like uh logic andmemory functioning together to
(05:04):
process the data.
Yeah, right.
Give us intelligence output.
So in a some powersemiconductor device, there is
actually no data ones and zerosor things flowing there.
Yeah.
Okay.
It is really turning on and offsomething.
Um, it's uh conditioning yourpower, stepping up your voltage,
(05:24):
stepping down your voltage.
Um, those are, I would say, amajor difference between a uh
logic device and a power device.
Françoise von Trapp (05:34):
Okay, so that makes sense.
Thank you for clearing that up.
That's why when we havethermostats that are now smart
thermostats, they not only havepower, do they have power
devices in them?
Ram Trichur (05:44):
They have power devices and they have sensors,
they have uh also have logic.
So, and they have displaydrivers because it comes with an
integrated display.
So that's a complete system,that thermostat.
Françoise von Trapp (05:59):
Okay.
So now that we understand whatpower electronics and power
semiconductors are, let's talkabout what's driving this growth
of it says up to 67.5 billionby 2020.
What's driving that?
Ram Trichur (06:14):
Yeah, so the power electronics market, I would say,
is going through a reallyexciting uh transformation uh
right now, uh, driven by uhincreasing demand for energy
efficient solutions across manyverticals like mobility,
industrial, uh data center,communications, mainly due to
(06:38):
rising environmental concernsand also uh stringent energy
regulations by many countries.
I would say there are severalkey trends.
First is uh electrification uhthat's kind of accelerating
everywhere, not just in electricvehicles, uh, but also in uh
(06:59):
transportation, I would say alsorenewable uh energy systems and
also industrial applications.
So it's creating a huge demandfor uh more efficient, higher
power electronics that canhandle stresses of these extreme
applications.
And then uh, secondly, what Iwould say is uh wide-band gap
(07:21):
semiconductors like uh siliconcarbide and gallium nitride are
actually a game changer forpower electronics.
Uh, these are materials thatallow devices to uh switch
faster, operate at uh highervoltages, and also run at high
temperature, meaning compared toa traditional silicon, when
(07:45):
people move to a wide band gapsemiconductor like silicon
carbide or gallium nitride, theycan have smaller, lighter, and
more energy efficient systems.
And then the third one uh is Iwould say uh push for higher
integration and power density.
So we're seeing more compactpower modules uh combining
(08:09):
functions in the same package toreduce size and uh losses.
These are used in data centers,EV chargers, and also uh
sustainability and efficiencyare also becoming uh
non-negotiable.
Yeah, so uh to manage uhstricter efficiency targets, uh
thermal challenges, costpressures, uh, those are some of
(08:31):
the key drivers uh that uhmoves forward power electronics
devices.
Françoise von Trapp (08:36):
So power electronics can help us make
power use more efficient ifthey're built properly.
And that's one of the reasonswe're moving from silicon-based
to compound semiconductor based,right?
Ram Trichur (08:48):
Gallium arsenide and uh silicon carbide, gallium
nitride, yeah, white band cap.
So traditional power electronicdevices are bulky.
Uh so let's say if you you takea car, an EV, one of the major
uh impetus in EV is havinglonger range.
Yeah.
If you add uh weight and volumewith these bulky electronics,
(09:11):
now you're shortening the range.
So moving to uh uh moreefficient power conversion
systems with uh siliconcarbide-based inverters reduces
the weight and volume, henceincreasing the efficiency of the
power electronics and the enddevice in terms of uh uh
mileage.
Françoise von Trapp (09:32):
You said before that the wide band gap
semiconductors run at highertemperature.
Because I thought like wewanted things to be cooler,
because if things run at highertemperatures, then we have to do
all of this cooling.
Ram Trichur (09:44):
So these silicon carbide and uh a gallium
nitride, if they operate athigher junction temperatures,
they perform their functionsmore effectively instead of
lower temperatures, so they canprovide faster switching speeds,
and they are also smaller insize, so they pass a much higher
(10:08):
electrical flux through thesmall dimension.
So naturally, um, there is alot of heat flowing through it,
and thereby comes the need forhigher thermal conductive dietch
materials, meaning hey, atraditional solder may not work
in these high heat fluxconditions.
(10:28):
So we need to switch to morecentered dietch materials to
conduct this heat away from thedevice.
Françoise von Trapp (10:35):
Okay, so we're improving the efficiency
and the performance with thesewideband gap materials, but now
this is creating some otherchallenges where which are
actually right in Henkel's sweetspot, right?
To address.
Ram Trichur (10:52):
That is correct.
Françoise von Trapp (10:54):
From a packaging perspective, is
thermal management one of thechallenges that you have to
address?
Ram Trichur (11:01):
Only, I mean, that's one of the big
challenges.
So if if we're looking at apackaging from a packaging
perspective, it also helps tolook at it from two angles
because power conversion devicesfall under two categories power
discreet and the power modules.
Yeah.
Power discrete devices arereally individual dice packaged
(11:25):
in a discrete package.
It may contain a driver, butit's mainly one switch.
These are like power MOSFETs orIGBTs.
Um, so in power discretedevices, we are seeing a major
shift, like I said, towardswideband gap semiconductors such
as silicon carbide or galliumnitride.
And the key challenge hererevolves around managing higher
(11:49):
power densities, higheroperating temperatures, and
faster switching speeds whilemaintaining cost effective and
high volume manufacturability.
So we'll we'll come back tohey, how are we addressing this
cost effectiveness?
Yeah.
So in this space, uh, there isa clear need for uh next
(12:09):
generation dye attachedmaterials to replace traditional
solders that are used insilicon-based uh power
electronics devices.
We're also seeing a movetowards uh thinner dice, uh,
which again improves theefficiency, but it also
increases the thermal andmechanical stresses on the
package.
Uh, we are also seeing agrowing trend of uh using copper
(12:33):
lead frames to improve uhthermal performance and while
keeping costs under control.
When it comes to power modules,um, the challenges scale up
because these operate at muchhigher voltages, and then the EV
power modules are moving fromuh a traditional 400 volt system
to now 800 and even beyond 1000volts.
(12:56):
Yeah, the use of uh siliconcarbide dyes are becoming
mainstream in EV power modules,and now manufacturers have to
balance power density,reliability, manufacturability
uh while addressing uh thermalperformance.
So I would say again, in powerdiscretes and power modules, the
(13:17):
the challenges are along thesame flavors.
How do you manage cost,reliability, thermal, uh, while
uh switching from a traditionalsilicon-based to uh wideband
gap-based semiconductors?
Françoise von Trapp (13:30):
Okay, so one of the things we've been
talking about a lot in theadvanced packaging side is that
the purpose of packaging isshifting from the protection of
the device to the interconnectand the importance of you know
higher density interconnect.
So it seems to me though thatthis is not the issue in the
(13:51):
power space.
Packaging still plays thetraditional role that it has
always played.
Ram Trichur (13:55):
That is correct.
Yeah.
Here it's not a matter of I/Os,these are all traditional
wirebond packages.
So we're not talking about highdensity I/Os, uh shrinking
pitches, shrinking gaps.
No, that's that's purely in theadvanced packaging side.
Uh, here we are uh dealing withuh mainly thermal warpage, uh,
(14:18):
conductivity, high power, highcurrent, uh, which is unlike a
logic situation.
Françoise von Trapp (14:24):
Okay.
So it's interesting though tohave this conversation because
sometimes people think that weare moving away from traditional
packaging.
But the reality is traditionalpackaging is still very much
alive and probably stillaccounts for maybe, I think,
like 80 to 85 percent of what'sbeing manufactured these days,
right?
Ram Trichur (14:44):
Totally agree.
Françoise von Trapp (14:45):
So we get so focused on the advanced
innovations that get talkedabout.
Like we don't see hybridbonding here.
So we're not even seeing flipchip here.
Ram Trichur (14:53):
That's all traditional wirebond packages.
So in Henkel's portfolio, yeah,we are one of the leaders in uh
uh dye attached materials.
So a lot of this business inwirebon packaging is our core
business.
So when we think of thiswirebon packaging business as a
core business, we see powermodules and power discretes as
(15:18):
an extension of our core or as agrowth area within our core
wirebond business.
So it's not a mature segment,but this is indeed a growth
segment because of the shiftfrom traditional silicon-based
uh power conversion devices tosilicon carbide and gallium
nitride-based power conversiondevices, and all the underlying
(15:39):
trends pushing the volume ofthese wideband gap devices, we
see this as a growth area.
Because if it's asilicon-based, it's
traditionally addressed bysolder, and that is not one of
the materials that Henkelcarries anymore.
So for us, this entireopportunity is a growth area,
just like how we perceiveadvanced packaging as a growth
(16:00):
area.
Anything in high thermal dietchand sintering materials tied to
power electronics is a growtharea.
Françoise von Trapp (16:08):
So we still need massive innovation in the
power electronics space whenwe're shifting from silicon to
wide band gap material.
We're looking again at havingto create devices that are
lighter, that have coolingissues to handle, um, dealing
with different sorts ofsubstrate materials.
(16:29):
So if we're still using wirebond processes, we must be
needing to also innovate thereif we're handling smaller dye,
right?
Ram Trichur (16:38):
That is correct.
So innovation goes hand in handwith any of the new growth
areas.
So here, like I said, um costis a big factor uh for people in
the power electronics industry.
Yeah, when you move from solderto a sintering material, solder
is a uh a cheaper alternative.
(16:59):
When you go to centering, it'susually made with the
silver-based material.
So instead of paying forsolder, now you have to pay for
silver in that same bond line.
And if you if you've noticedhow much silver prices have gone
up in the past few months, youdon't want to pay for silver for
it.
Okay, so there is a bigopportunity for Henkel and
(17:21):
companies like Henkel in thisspace to offer alternate for
silver-based pressure centeringor silver-based centering
material.
So here Henkel is investingquite heavily in uh uh a roadmap
for copper-based uh centeringmaterial.
So that's that's one of theinnovations um that is
(17:42):
supporting a um uh costpressures uh for our customers.
Françoise von Trapp (17:47):
We've just been talking about a few of
them.
What about some of the othercustomer pain points you can
talk about that Henkel tries toaddress?
Ram Trichur (17:54):
Yeah, so our customer pain points again tend
to fall into several consistentareas.
Okay.
Uh, first and foremost, it'sreliability.
Power semiconductor devices andmodules need to perform
flawlessly for multiple years inhigh voltage, high temperature
operations, often in verydemanding environments that are
(18:16):
found in electric vehicles orindustrial equipment.
And then another key challengeis the compatibility with a wide
range of die sizes and backsidemetallizations that are in
these dice.
With the shift to wideband gapsemiconductors, the packages
must accommodate thinner dies,often strange geometries like
(18:37):
the very slim rectangular diesthat we commonly see in telecom
applications.
And also thermal performance,like I said, is always critical.
Uh, die attached and centeringmaterials need to manage heat
quite efficiently, um, and thenalso offer very specific range
of thermal conductivitiesdepending on what is the
(18:59):
package, what is the uh devicetype, and also specific bond
line thickness.
And lastly, like I said, costoptimization, supply stability
are also on top of the mind forour customers, as uh all these
manufacturers need to ensurereliable uh production runs
(19:19):
without any unexpected delays.
And and beyond all this,technical and operational
concerns, our customers are alsolooking for partners with
foresight, which is hey, do youhave a strong innovation roadmap
and ability to anticipate whatwe need in our next generation
of semiconductor banking?
(19:40):
So they don't want onlysolutions for what their needs
are today, but they want it tobe future proof and we they need
suppliers to uh support a uhroadmap uh beyond uh what it is
visible for the next few years.
So that's where Henkel uhstrength is.
(20:00):
You know, like I said, we'vebeen in the wirebond and dietch
for a very long time, more than50 years.
Um, so customers value thisexpertise, and uh uh we're also
very glad that they come to usuh for these uh uh roadmaps.
Françoise von Trapp (20:16):
Good thoughts.
First of all, uh you weretalking about the cost of
silver, and that made me thinkabout the geopolitical issues
with rare earth minerals.
Um, and how is that situationimpacting Henkel's ability to
deliver to their customers witha consistent supply of the
(20:36):
materials that they're lookingfor?
Ram Trichur (20:38):
Yeah, silver is not a mineral that's um
gate-checked um in any of theseuh geopolitical issues, uh, but
silver is a precious metal andthe costs are increasing, and
there's a lot of surprises inthe market.
Uh, like I said, it's beenvolatile um uh with high peaks
(20:59):
and sudden dips in the last uhuh several months.
Yeah.
Françoise von Trapp (21:04):
What about copper?
Ram Trichur (21:05):
Copper is a much more general traded metal, yeah.
So it's uh much cheaper thansilver.
Um, so that's a uh alternativeuh that people consider as quite
viable.
But copper has not yet beenused as a dietch material uh
yet.
Okay.
Um, so there is a lot to beproven to say, hey, copper is a
(21:29):
viable alternative.
But already in our innovationefforts, we've uh sampled this
to multiple customers, and allthe tests are proving quite
strong in terms of uhreliability data,
processability, all that.
Uh, we do expect with all thenew innovations that's happening
now, copper will be a veryviable replacement for uh silver
(21:50):
in the near future.
Françoise von Trapp (21:52):
When you're talking about your development
roadmap, one of the things I doknow about materials and
microelectronics is that toqualify in a new material takes
a really long time, andcustomers will stick with what
they have for as long as theycan because it's such a big
deal.
So, how far out do you have toconsider when you're doing your
(22:16):
roadmaps for these kinds ofthings?
Ram Trichur (22:18):
Yeah, so we plan for five to 10 years out for a
roadmap because in semiconductorpackaging, you start an
innovation now, you get aqualification probably three to
four years later, if you'relucky and everything goes on.
Yeah.
Um, and so there needs to be alot of patience for both the
(22:39):
customers and the uh suppliersto take part.
So that that goes through foralso power semiconductors.
And then we have innovationinvestments in to address both
the power discreet and also uhpower modules.
Uh, maybe I can talk a littlebit about what we're doing in uh
power discretes and powermodules and we can expand on it.
(23:01):
Yeah.
So for power discretes, like Isaid, again, the major shift is
uh going towards silicon carbideand gallium nitride, and also
addressing uh larger dye sizesup to eight by eight, for
example.
So we have uh large dyepressureless sintering materials
in our roadmap.
(23:21):
And then, like I said,customers want to convert to
copper lead frame.
So we have uh pressurelesssintering materials that are
compatible with copper leadframe, and also if uh customers
move to uh thin dyes in thesepower discreets.
Now we're investing in uh uhfilm-based approaches, uh
(23:44):
dispensable approaches fordietch, these pressure sintering
dietch materials to becompatible with thin dye.
Because as dye is thin, youdon't want the dye attached
material to creep back up ontothe top.
So you need some formulationmodifications or format
modifications to be compatiblewith thin dye.
And then also, like I said,there there needs to be
(24:06):
customized thermal conductivityfor different packages.
So if a solder is beingreplaced, um, the thermal
conductivity of solder isanywhere around uh uh 20 to 50
watts.
So if solder is being replacedwith a sintering material or a
high thermal dietch, people areexpecting 50 to 100 watt-based
um dietatch material.
(24:27):
So here also we're we're havingpressurless sintering material
as well as uh our epoxy-baseddiet hatch expanding in thermal
conductivity to 50 to 100 watts.
So these are some of ourinnovation investments in uh
power discretes, again,addressing large dye, copper
lead frame, thin dye, multipleuh BSMs, backside metallization
(24:51):
in uh in dyes.
And then if you take powermodules, now traditionally I
said like solder has been used.
And then when it moves tohigher voltages, silver-based
pressure sintering has been usedin power modules.
So now what Henkel is reallytrying to intercept is the next
inflection.
Silver is too expensive, westill need a sintering die
(25:13):
attached material.
Henkel is investing inpressure-assisted copper-based
sintering dye attached material.
Um, so these are micron-basedcopper that can bond the dye to
substrate bond line, and alsoanother bond line below the
substrate and base plate, whichwhich we call as large area
(25:34):
centering.
So two bond lines.
One is dye to sub with thecopper-based centering
materials, pressure centeringmaterials, and then substrate to
base plate with thecopper-based pressure centering
materials.
So these are uh the uhportfolio that we have in
innovation, and we're engagingwith the all the top-tier
(25:54):
customers that are doing boththe discrete semiconductors,
power semiconductors, as well asthe power modules.
Françoise von Trapp (26:01):
So, with copper difference from silver in
the processing, you do have todeal with the potential for
oxidation.
Correct?
Correct.
So, is there something specificabout the tools for the dietch?
If they're going to be usingcopper material to do dietch, do
the tools have to have aspecial environment to reduce
(26:22):
the amount of um oxidation thatcan happen?
Ram Trichur (26:26):
Yeah, that's a great question, Francoise.
Yeah, so in our uh copper-basedpressure sintering material,
the formulation itself isstabilized with special
ingredients.
So there is uh not oxidationhappening in the formulation.
And when we do the uh actualsintering diet, it is conducted
in a nitrogen environment, andwhere we actually offer value to
(26:51):
our customers is the sinteringhappens at much lower
temperatures around 225 degreesC, and then at also lower
pressures around 15 to 20megapascals.
So that's how we uh do thecopper-based sintering materials
and attach it to the dye.
Françoise von Trapp (27:12):
Well, that's very cool because that
means you don't have to considerall of these other things like
special surface treatment beforeor protective coatings.
Ram Trichur (27:21):
That is right.
Françoise von Trapp (27:22):
So this is really interesting.
Is this something that isavailable to your customers
already?
That is correct.
Or is it in development?
Ram Trichur (27:29):
That is correct.
It is uh available to ourcustomers, it's in development,
but samples are available to thecustomers.
This is not a commercialproduct, but we're uh sampling
uh widely to our uh targetcustomers um for this uh
pressure assisted centering.
Françoise von Trapp (27:45):
So when you are doing sampling to your
customers, this is part of theprocess to qualify the material
that is correct into so that youcan then bring it into
production.
Ram Trichur (27:54):
That is correct.
We engage with our customers atthe early design phase, and um
this inflection is somethingthat we predict that will
happen.
So we sample very early thecustomers and they have a long
qualification cycle, like Isaid, multiple years.
Françoise von Trapp (28:10):
And by the time they're ready to implement
it, you've got it taken care of.
Ram Trichur (28:16):
That is correct.
Yeah, I mean, we obviously needa first customer to take it to
the finish line.
So that that'll be our launch.
Right.
And then once we launch it, wescale the multiple.
And if there are formulationtweaks that are needed uh for
other customers, uh, we we arevery capable of making those.
Françoise von Trapp (28:34):
Are customers willing to be the
guinea pig?
Ram Trichur (28:37):
Yes, because always customers look for new
technologies because it givesthem certain advantages in the
marketplace.
If if they are uh havingdevices um that are made more
cost effective, if they arehaving devices that are made
more operationally friendly,like in this case at a lower
(28:59):
pressure and a lowertemperature, these gives them
advantages.
Obviously, all these devicesneed to be at least as good or
better in terms of reliabilitycompared to previous
generations.
So if we offer all thoseadvantages with uh process and
cost uh benefits to ourcustomers, they're willing to
try that.
Françoise von Trapp (29:18):
So if a customer wants to engage with
you to be part of this, howwould they go about doing that?
Ram Trichur (29:25):
We have a very good assessment of the market.
So we know who are the targetcustomers, who are our strategic
customers, who will have uh abig impact uh in terms of uh
business as well as volumes.
Um, so we knock on their doors,we work very closely with them.
Obviously, uh, if we misssomeone, we invite enquiries and
(29:49):
uh we have a way to feel thisuh uh throughout uh the world.
Yeah, we have uh uh salesoffices, uh engineers, so very
easy uh for our customers.
Reach us.
I don't think there is a singlecustomer that we we are not
knocking on the doors of orwe're not present, but yeah,
very easy to reach us.
Françoise von Trapp (30:08):
So Hankel is a global corporation and you
have many different divisions.
Where are most of theelectronic materials
manufactured?
Ram Trichur (30:16):
So our electronic materials are manufactured in uh
uh US.
We have a facility in Rancho,uh, we have a facility in uh
China near Shanghai, uh, we havea major plant in Korea and also
in uh Japan.
I would say these four sitesare our major manufacturing
(30:37):
sites, uh, but Henkel has otherfacilities that we can also turn
on if needed.
unknown (30:42):
Okay.
Françoise von Trapp (30:43):
Any final thoughts that you wanted to
share today?
Ram Trichur (30:47):
Yeah, I mean, I want to end this on a uh
positive, uplifting note becauseuh as we look ahead, I see
power electronics market isgrowing faster than ever due to
uh electrification and adoptionof these wideband gap
semiconductor devices.
Uh, this this growth createsexciting opportunities for
(31:08):
everyone in the value chain anduh Tankel, we're uh very proud
to invest in uh uh continuouslyin this innovation, offering our
broad market-proven portfolioof uh materials uh for diet and
also centric.
So uh looking forward, thereare even more opportunities uh
for material innovation as thedevices become more powerful and
(31:31):
uh the systems push the limitof thermal and electrical
performance.
And I uh want to thank our uhpartners because uh our success
comes from strong partnershipsuh with our customers, upstream
raw material suppliers,equipment partners, and uh
broader ecosystems.
So I feel together we cantackle uh the toughest
(31:54):
challenges and uh bring newsolutions to the market faster.
Françoise von Trapp (31:58):
Well, thank you so much for your time
today, Ram.
I really appreciate it.
It was really interestinglearning a little more about
power electronics and Henkel'srole in it.
Ram Trichur (32:07):
Hey, thank you so much, Francois.
It's really a lot of pleasuretalking to you all anytime.
Françoise von Trapp (32:16):
Coming up next on the 3D Insights podcast,
I talk with Nietza Bosoko,Julia Goldstein, and Ann
Meiksner, three women who aresemiconductor industry
professionals.
They all contributed chaptersto a new book, Empowering Women
in STEM Pioneering Paths toShape the Future.
They share their journeys, whatmakes them passionate about
technology, and how they arepaying it forward.
(32:38):
There's lots more to come, sotune in next time to the 3D
Insights podcast.
The 3D Insights podcast is aproduction of 3D Insights Lake.
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