Cloak & Dagger

In this episode, Anna and Derek chat about the crazy amount of independence kids of the '80s had, movies for children that may not entirely be movies for children, and much more during their discussion of Cloak & Dagger (1984).

Connect with '80s Movie Montage on Facebook, Bluesky or Instagram! It's the same handle for all three... @80smontagepod.

Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

We'd love to hear from you! Send us a text message.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Yeah, thanks.

(00:09):
Hello?

SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
Dad, you gotta help me.

SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
David, why aren't you in bed?

SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
The spies, they planted a bomb in Kim's
walkie-talkie and she doesn'teven know it.

SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Let's go.
I told you, I didn't want you toget in those games.
You understand that?

SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Dad, this is no game now.
I need your help.

SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
David, look, I've got a rush job here.

SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
I do not have time for this kind of stuff.
They're trying to take theplants out of the country at
midnight.

SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Just calm down, okay?
I don't want you to get workedup again.
I'll be home as just as soon asI can.
What'd I tell you?
He's useless.

SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage.
This is Derek.

SPEAKER_04 (00:39):
And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
And that was Henry Thomas as Davy Osborn and Dabney
Coleman as Jack Flack and DabneyColeman as Hal Osborn in 1984's
Cloak and Dagger.

SPEAKER_04 (00:52):
Cloak and Dagger.
Mm-hmm.
Brand new film to me.

SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Yeah, it's an interesting perspective on just
how violent movies were towardskids.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03):
But this was...
I don't want to say that most ofthose are my pick per se, but
this definitely was yourcontender.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
It was one that I picked just because I remember
we'd covered some Dabney Colemanmovies, and so his name came up
for this movie, and I'm like, ohyeah, we should talk about it
sometime.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24):
I do know that...
Very frequently throughout theviewing of this film, I was
like, do you remember this?
Did you remember this?
Do you know what's happening?

SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
You asked me that a lot.
And my answer most of the timewas like, nope.
The only thing I remembered werethe old spies.
Because I remember the twistblowing my mind as a kid.
I'm like, goddammit, I can'ttrust old people.

UNKNOWN (01:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:51):
So let's dive in.
Let's expand upon that.
1984.
So you mentioned Henry Thomas.
If people don't know him byname, he's Elliot from

SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
E.T.
Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_04 (02:06):
So at this point, this is post E.T.
E.T.
was 82.
He doesn't I mean, yes, he looksa touch older now.
My guess is like this maybe wasthe next thing that he filmed
after E.T.

SPEAKER_02 (02:17):
Like right after.
It

SPEAKER_04 (02:18):
had to have been because he doesn't like a ton
older.
But in any case, let's start,though, with the writers.
Sorry to preface with HenryThomas, but written by we have a
couple people, one familiar namethat we have definitely talked
about before.
And we're going to start withhim.
Tom Holland.
I

SPEAKER_02 (02:37):
remember that name.

SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:39):
Not the actor.
No.
Not Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
Yeah.
I hadn't even thought of thatjoke again.
Dang it.

SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
Beat you to

SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:46):
But yes, Tom Holland.
It's kind of fun to see himback.
Yeah.
Actually, we might bring him upagain later this season.
So he has a screen story andscreenplay credit.
And so...
Holland, he's a little bit of awriter, a little bit of a

(03:07):
director.
I'll get to the credit thatwe've covered before in just a
moment.
But strictly speaking, hiswriting credits, we have The
Beast Within, Class of 1984,Psycho 2, which I've never seen,
but I think I've heard goodthings about it.

SPEAKER_02 (03:25):
Yeah, I have too.
I have heard...
Like in terms of like sequelsthat were not absolute shit.

SPEAKER_04 (03:32):
Yeah.
It

SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
might be better than that.

SPEAKER_04 (03:34):
It did come fairly far after the original, but I've
heard that it's decent.
So here we go.
Fright Night.
Yeah, I love that movie.
I love that movie so much.
He is the writer and he alsohappens to be the director for
that film.
And he also has a credit forFright Night Part Two because he
originated the characters.

(03:54):
So that's another credit.
I

SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
have not heard good things about Fright Night Two,
nor have I watched it, though.
So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (04:00):
No, I'm not.
so interested uh child's play sothat's the one that i was like
oh maybe we'll do that laterthis year

SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
i can't believe that's an 80s movie for some
reason it feels you

SPEAKER_04 (04:10):
have a real uh

SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
i have a real problem with this

SPEAKER_04 (04:13):
real problem with the fact that it's from the 80s
and thinner so uh the net sohere's what's interesting this
is a film that's like based on astory like outside of Outside of
like script writing, likethere's this writer.
His name is Cornell Woolrich.

(04:34):
Not Woolrich.
God, it's hard to say.
Remember that store?
Woolworths?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Not that.

SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Not that.
Woolrich.
Woolrich.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:41):
So he was this...
prolific writer he passed awayin 1968 so long before this
movie ever came along and he'skind of one of those guys where
a lot of like in Hollywoodthey've taken a lot of his
stories and they've madeprojects out of them so he has a

(05:02):
from a story by credit on thisone and I think he did try his
hand at screenwriting I think hewas more successful as just like
a story writer like novels andshort stories but A couple of
his credits are very familiar,but I'll go through a couple of
them.
And these are all kind of likebased on his stories, not

(05:22):
necessarily a screenplay.
The Haunted House, SevenFootprints to Satan.

SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
Wow.
I

SPEAKER_04 (05:29):
love that one.

SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
No Man of Her Own, If I Should Die Before I Wake.

SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
That's so fucking dramatic.

SPEAKER_04 (05:37):
Here we go.
Rare Window.
Rare Window.

SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
I do like that movie a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (05:42):
And from what I read, he was like a mystery
writer.
And so it makes sense thatHitchcock...
I could see why Hitchcock wouldpull from his stories.

SPEAKER_03 (05:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (05:54):
The Boy Who Cried Murder, which I took a look to
see, oh, is this the story thatoriginated, kind of was like a
basis for Cloak and Dagger?
Because there's kind of thatelement.

SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
Very much.
He, in fact, is a boy who criesmurder.

SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
Yeah, I don't...
Maybe...
Okay.
Okay.
Briefly, I'm going to bring upthis person because technically

(06:29):
she's uncredited for this, NancyDowd.
But she is a very well-knownscreenwriter.
So I don't know if she came infor a polish or what she did,
punched it up in some way.
But some of her credits, I betyou we have talked about her.
Although the film that wecovered, she's also uncredited

(06:49):
for.
She probably did a lot of storydoctoring.

UNKNOWN (06:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (06:53):
I wish this was an 80s movie because I would love
to cover Slapshot.

SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (06:57):
She's a screenwriter on

SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
that.
I know you love that movie.

SPEAKER_04 (06:59):
I do really love that movie.
She is an Oscar winningscreenplay or screenwriter, I
should say, best originalscreenplay for Coming Home.
She was uncredited, but I have afeeling she probably had
something to do with OrdinaryPeople.

SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Oh, man.
That's a feel good classic.

SPEAKER_04 (07:19):
And Swing Shift.

SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
Okay.
So some of her credits.

SPEAKER_04 (07:22):
Okay.
So moving on to the director,Richard Franklin.
This is another one of thoseepisodes where unfortunately a
number of people attached to thefilm have passed away.
He passed away in 2007.
Interesting filmography.
Oh?
I don't think we have broughthim up.

(07:44):
Maybe in passing.
Maybe in passing we have for oneepisode.
But some of his...
Directing credits include the TVshow Homicide.
He directed Road Games.
So here's why maybe we've, inpassing, brought him up.
He has an uncredited credit onthe Pirate movie.
Go check out that episode.
Love that movie.
He was the director on Psycho 2.

(08:06):
Okay.
He also directed on the TV show,haven't you brought this up,
Beastmaster?

SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
The TV show Beauty and the Beast?
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (08:16):
No, Beastmaster.

SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Or the movie Beastmaster.
Yeah, I've brought up the movieBeastmaster.
But it's not

SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
the movie.
It's a TV show.

SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
I've not seen a TV show for Beastmaster.

SPEAKER_04 (08:24):
And his final credit was a film called Visitors.

SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (08:29):
Okay, moving on to cinematography.
Let's see.
Have we brought him up before?
Yes, we have.
And actually, we might bebringing him up again very soon.
Victor J.
Kemper.
He's also passed.
He passed more recently in 2023.

SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
You know, we had considered naming this Recently
Passed, but 80s Movie Montagewon out.

SPEAKER_04 (08:52):
Unfortunately, we've just had a couple episodes in a
row where there just is a highnumber of people who are no
longer with us.

SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
It's just the way it works with movies that are...
I

SPEAKER_04 (09:01):
know.
It's only going to...
The longer we continue this, thehigher the odds are.

SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
The movies are slightly aged now.

SPEAKER_04 (09:07):
Yeah.
So some of his credits include,this comes up all the time.
Oh?
That the film, They Might BeGiants.

SPEAKER_02 (09:18):
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
Why?
Is there, what's the connectionthere?

SPEAKER_04 (09:23):
He's the cinematographer.
Wait, what?
You're trying to tell a joke.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
I know.
I do love the band.
So he is the DP on that.
We've also brought up this film,though I think it's been a
minute.
Who is Harry Kellerman and whyis he saying those terrible
things about me?

SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
It's a title that's so long you probably have to
expand your browser window justfor IMDb to show it

SPEAKER_04 (09:46):
all.
I love that that's the title ofa movie.
So he did that.
Some probably more well-knownfilms.
He shot The Candidate.
He shot Dog Day Afternoon, TheLast Tycoon.
He shot Slapshot.

SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
So we have brought him up for Mr.
Mom.
Okay.
He was the DP on that.
Go check out that episode.
So the reason why I was like,oh, we might bring him up again
real soon because I have on theslate National Lampoon's
Vacation.
All

SPEAKER_02 (10:15):
right.

SPEAKER_04 (10:15):
So he did that.
Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
We also brought him up for Clue.
With the multiple endings.
So he shot that, Beethoven,Tommy Boy, in a film that I am
going to speak on your behalfand say neither of us enjoyed.
Jingle all the way.

SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Man, I don't like movies that are just anxiety
simulators, and that's Prettymuch what that was.

SPEAKER_04 (10:37):
It was all just like bits.

SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:40):
Just like physical comedy bits.

SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
He was also the DP on a movie from 1980 called The
Final Countdown.
No relation to the song, butit's an aircraft carrier that
goes back in time to 1941 nearHawaii.

SPEAKER_04 (10:55):
Oh, yeah.
That's with Kirk Douglas, right?

SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
Just before Pearl Harbor.
I don't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.

SPEAKER_04 (11:01):
Yeah.
We could do that one at somepoint.
I wouldn't mind.
Be

SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
interesting to see how the effects have aged on.

SPEAKER_04 (11:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
On something like that or just how anything has.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (11:11):
Okay.
Moving on to music.
So the composer on this film wasBrian May.
He too has passed.
He passed in 1997.
And I think we could definitelybring him up again.
It's interesting that we haven'ttalked about it.
I'll get to kind of some of hismain credits in a second.
But it's interesting that wehaven't thought about doing

(11:33):
these films.
So here, I don't even know thisshow, but he was the composer on
a TV series called Bellbird for1,639 episodes.

SPEAKER_02 (11:46):
Wow.
In 1967.

SPEAKER_04 (11:49):
Yeah, that's a crazy long run for a show.

SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
These aren't like YouTube shorts.

SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
No! I was like, okay.
I don't usually see that big ofa count on a TV show.
So here we go.
Although this is technically70s.
He was the composer on Mad Max,but the reason why I bring that
up is because he's also thecomposer on The Road Warrior,
which

SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
we could do.
Yeah, and I've thought aboutthem.
I definitely want to cover roadwarrior and, um, beyond
Thunderdome, I think is eightiesas well.

SPEAKER_04 (12:18):
We would start with, I mean, we, as far as like the,
uh, having to stick within thedecade, we'd start with road
warrior

SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
though.
Yeah.
We can talk about road warriorand we can talk a little bit
about if, when we cover that, wecan talk a little bit about what
transpires in the original as wedid with, uh, Rocky two.
Yeah.
You know?
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (12:39):
Um,

SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
No one's going to come after us if we break this
rule.

SPEAKER_04 (12:44):
I will come after you.
He also did Road Games, DeathBefore Dishonor, and Freddy's
Dead, The Final Nightmare.
All right.
Okay, moving on to film editing,Andrew London.
Not a huge filmography, butagain, it's clear that, again,

(13:05):
some of these people, they...
have a relationship.
They like to work on projectstogether because he was the
editor on Psycho 2.
So he

SPEAKER_03 (13:13):
did

SPEAKER_04 (13:13):
that.
He was the editor on Rambo 3.

SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
So Rambo, which is First Blood Part 2, already kind
of takes what was an interestingstory from First Blood and just
goes kind of wild with it.
And then Rambo 3 is like...
Rambo 3

SPEAKER_04 (13:31):
is like the...

SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
Dialing it to 11.

SPEAKER_04 (13:33):
Yeah, like the one that people kind of make fun of
in terms of just how ridiculous.
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
pretty sure it's the one that Weird Al was making fun
of in VHS.

SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
Yes.
He also cut Big Eden and thendid work on a fair number of TV
movies over the course of hiscareer.
All right.
We are at the start of thisfilm.
And actually, we do have adecent amount of people to talk
about.
Starting with, you mentionedhim, Henry Thomas.

SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
E.T.
Elliot.

SPEAKER_04 (14:06):
Elliot.
He is, you mentioned hischaracter name, Davy Osborn.

SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
Sounds like one of the monkeys.
Yeah.
What

SPEAKER_04 (14:17):
was his name?
Davy something.
Jones, maybe?

UNKNOWN (14:21):
Davy.

SPEAKER_04 (14:23):
Anyway, Henry Thomas is still very much acting to
this day.
We'll definitely go through hiscredits.
But what an amazing kid actor.
He's so good.
He

SPEAKER_02 (14:37):
really is.
He

SPEAKER_04 (14:38):
really is so believable in these roles.
Look, it's very hard to notthink of him as Elliot from E.T.
because it's just such an iconicrole.

SPEAKER_02 (14:49):
If you have the opportunity, look up his...
You can find on YouTube like acasting thing of him when he was
auditioning for E.T.

SPEAKER_04 (14:58):
And Spielberg's like, he got the role kit.

SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:02):
I mean, he's just incredible.
You know, I was thinking aboutthis as we were watching it.
Like I was I was kind of thinkabout like, you know, people
come together for I'm going tosay on average, maybe if it's
like a studio backed featurefilm for maybe maybe two months
ish to shoot it.

(15:22):
when they're doing, like,principal photography, depending
on, like, the demands of theshoot.
Yeah.
But you have this, like, reallyintense time where you're, like,
working with somebody, you'reseeing them every day, you're
doing maybe emotional sceneswith them.
And I was just thinking aboutthe fact that, like, we'll get
to him in a second, but DabneyColeman just passed away last
year.
And even though they only workedon this one film together, I

(15:44):
always kind of think about,like, oh, so, like, when Dabney
Coleman passed away, like...
What does that mean for someonelike Henry Thomas who worked
with him when he was a child?
I just kind of think about that.
Or is it like...
I don't know what the comparisonwould be, but if we heard
somebody from high school hadpassed away, where there's been

(16:05):
enough time passed where it'slike, oh, that's sad, but it
doesn't really...
I just am curious what kind ofrelationships develop or don't
over the course of those typesof collaborations and what it
means when somebody passes awaylater on in life.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Sorry for the

SPEAKER_04 (16:23):
side.

SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
No, I mean, I've heard stories where actors...
they might develop a friendshipthat extends for years.
Even Kevin Smith was talkingabout dogma because they ended
up getting, oh my goodness, HansGruber.

SPEAKER_04 (16:40):
Sure.
Alan

SPEAKER_02 (16:42):
Rickman.
Yeah, Rickman.
They got him and after workingtogether, he was super
intimidated by the possibilityof working with him.
But afterwards, they remainedfriends like somewhat close like
if he was if Smith is evertraveling overseas he would meet
with them so like that canhappen I you know

SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
especially with something like this though when
you're a child and

SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
that's his dad yeah and his hero

SPEAKER_04 (17:11):
because like for instance at the Oscars this year
you know Morgan Freeman gavekind of the intro for the In
Memoriam and specifically calledout Gene Hackman because that
was his friend they haddeveloped a friendship over the
course of their careers but theywere like peers so I'm always
kind of curious what it meansfor somebody who's a much
younger actor, if that meansanything.
Anyway, I'm not going to go hitup Henry Thomas and ask about

(17:33):
his feelings on the passing ofDabney Coleman.
It's just something that I kindof randomly think about.
But he was, and still is, anincredible actor, but he...
He's very...
What would you say is hischaracter's main trait?
He's...

(17:54):
Precocious.

SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
Yeah.
I mean, as a lot of kids in thisera of movie, like very
independent.

SPEAKER_04 (18:04):
Oh, my God.

SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Getting all around town.
Very assertive.

SPEAKER_04 (18:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:13):
That is something that was so funny about this
movie because like his littlefriend, his little neighborhood
friend, she seems to be evenyounger than him.
She's taking the bus at midnightto get to the airport.

SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Look, I'm not getting on the bus at midnight
to go to the

SPEAKER_04 (18:29):
airport.
And they each had bus passes, sothis is something they

SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
do on the rag.
Yeah, and then when he forgothis bus pass or something, so
he's just asking random cabbiesoutside a bar.

SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
Strangers!

SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
Yeah, one of whom I'm sure we'll get to.
Louis Anderson, just a randomcabbie in this?
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (18:49):
that was a really random cameo.
Yeah, it is very funny to seethe depiction of children In
this time.
Yeah.
I think it maybe takes it alittle far.
I, too, was never riding busesby myself when I was this age.
But yes, there was a high levelindependence, I would say.
I feel

SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
like it got off the rails as time moved on with
other movies where you'd seekids...
They weren't really even actinglike kids in these.
They're doing these things wherethat's crazy that this kid be
doing this, but he was stillacting like a kid.

SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
I

SPEAKER_04 (19:27):
was actually thinking about you a lot
watching this because he's agamer.
That's a huge part of the story.
Yes, it is.
So I was curious if that wasnostalgic for you in any way for
when you watched the actualgameplay.

SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
I'm sure that's what drew it to you.
I never had an Atari 5200, whichI think was the successor to the
2600.
Okay.
I had a 2600.
But after that, I think I wasmore for a while just trying to
do PC games.
gaming instead of the consoleexperience.

(20:02):
Was

SPEAKER_04 (20:02):
Atari Frogger?
I

SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
think Frogger was probably an Atari title.
You would have been able to playit on one of those.
Pitfall, Frogger, Joust was kindof fun.

SPEAKER_04 (20:16):
But he's had a really interesting career.
So as mentioned, huge breakoutrole in E.T.
Some of his other roles whilehe's still kind of like...
He's had an interesting careerbecause I think there have been
some lulls, but he's been verybusy lately.
Some of his earlier work, I havealmost in the early half of his

(20:38):
career films, Fire in the Sky.
So he's the youngest brother inLegends of the Fall.

SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
How does that movie, that movie comes up all the
time?

SPEAKER_04 (20:48):
Legends of the Fall?
Yes.
It did come up.
Last time, I think, for music,for music, because you said it
was dramatic.
And you also said it was like afar off place.
But he's the youngest brother.
So he's brother to Brad Pitt andAiden Quinn, I believe.
That's rough.
That's rough.
That's rough.
And he does, spoiler, pass away.

SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
Is he the one that got stuck in the barbed wire or
something?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Pretty rough.
That was...

SPEAKER_04 (21:16):
It's...
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
Not the best move.

SPEAKER_04 (21:19):
Oh, wait.
Are you...
Oh, God.

SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
He's in a couple of really bad death scenes.
What am I thinking of?

SPEAKER_04 (21:23):
So you're thinking of Gangs of New York.
No.
When he falls on the...

SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
I'm thinking of both, I think.
Wasn't there the...
Well, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (21:31):
In Legends of the Fall...

SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Someone gets stuck in the...
Yeah, because

SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
he's in World War I.
Yeah.
I believe that might actually behow he dies.
Yeah.
In Legends of the Fall.
But he has like kind of asimilar death in Gangs of New
York.

SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
He's like strung up or something in Gangs of New
York, isn't he?
Well,

SPEAKER_04 (21:47):
don't they– no, they like drop him on a fence.
He's like– you can't even movehim because he's like impaled.

SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Oh, that's rough.

SPEAKER_04 (21:56):
That's a really tough scene.

SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
That's like a 10-hour movie, so I don't
remember that

SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
exact scene.
Man, I haven't seen either ofthose films in a while, but–

SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
You know it's a long movie when it comes with two
discs,

SPEAKER_04 (22:08):
right?
Which one was it?

SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
Gangs of New York.
It had a disc one and disc two.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:13):
Still is one of my favorite Scorsese films.
Yeah.
He also did All the PrettyHorses in between those two
films.
He did a TV series calledBetrayal.
Here's what I love.
He is fully embraced horror.
He is almost, maybe it's alittle premature, probably is,
to say that he's like an icon.
Yeah.

(22:33):
He's not there yet, but he isfully immersed.
He's been in...
It kind of started with Ouija,Origin of Evil.
He's in that.
He's in Gerald's Game.

SPEAKER_02 (22:41):
Excellent book.
And I was really happy with theadaptation on Netflix, I think
it was.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:49):
He also...
I'm going slightly out ofchronological order because I...
well actually I don't even haveto because he

SPEAKER_02 (22:55):
don't do it do whatever you want

SPEAKER_04 (22:56):
he because I forgot that this was also a Flanagan
film Flanagan mostly has donethese TV series but he is the
director of Dr.
Sleep and he's yeah struck upthis like really amazing
collaboration with Mike Flanaganas have other actors Flanagan
has definitely become thatperson that like pulls on the
same cast of characters for alot of his work so he most of

(23:18):
what I have remaining for himare all these Flanagan
miniseries so The Haunting ofHill House.

SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
One of the best twists.
in a horror series that I'veever seen.

SPEAKER_04 (23:27):
I was just talking about that with some co-workers,
and they were suggesting readingthe book by Shirley Jackson.
The Haunting of Bly Manor,Midnight Mass, and The Fall of
the House of Usher, those areall Flanagan miniseries.
But then also, he did directDoctor Sleep.
And he just is a bit part, butessentially he's kind of playing
the Jack Nicholson role.

(23:48):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Yes, yeah.
He's like Jack

SPEAKER_04 (23:52):
Nicholson as the bartender.

SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
That movie, it's...
That was so interesting becausethe original Shining book and
movie had such dramaticallydifferent endings.
And so it's a similar experiencewith the book and the movie for
Dr.
Sleep because they each had tojump back in from their
respective totally differentendings.

SPEAKER_04 (24:13):
I was listening to a podcast with Mike Flanagan
recently.
I think it was that– what is it?
History of Horror.
I think he was talking to EliRoth.
And he was talking about how hehad to convince Stephen King to
be able to do the film and hadto really talk him through how
he would actually execute.

(24:34):
Doctor

SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
Sleep?
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (24:36):
Yeah.
And so without– I never read TheShining.
I only know the film version.
However, I'm aware of thedifferences in the book.
So Doctor Sleep, like– It fallssomewhere in the middle for me
with all of these sequels thatcome decades later.
after the original film and howwell they execute on it i think

(24:58):
one of the best examples ofdoing it well was maverick

SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
yeah

SPEAKER_04 (25:02):
with top gun so in one of the worst in my personal
opinion in my humble opinion oneof the worst versions is like
all these like more recentghostbuster movies um and i'm
not talking about ghostbusters2016 i'm talking about

SPEAKER_02 (25:16):
because that wasn't as much of a sequel that was
like uh its own thing yeah

SPEAKER_04 (25:20):
but um so yeah i mean stephen king came on board
because Mike Flanagan said,like, I understand how bad the
fallout was when you saw thefinished product of The Shining
and how far you felt that itcame from your original work.
So he tried the best he could,to your point, to try to, like,
tie those two very separatestories together.

SPEAKER_02 (25:44):
They did a good job, I think.
I liked them both.
I mean, I kind of, like, wentpretty quickly from finishing
the book to watching the movieand And all that stuff is like
fresh in your mind, all thedifferences.
But I really enjoyed it.
And I enjoyed Henry as thebartender.

SPEAKER_04 (26:02):
Very good.
He did a great Jack Nicholsonbeing the bartender.

SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
Very much so.

SPEAKER_04 (26:09):
OK, moving on to the gentleman that we did briefly
talk about, Dabney Coleman.
So to your point, you want youwant to explain this for the
folks at home?
Because you you said he playstwo different characters.

SPEAKER_02 (26:22):
Well, it's interesting because he's Davy's
childhood imaginary friend, JackFlack, I think.
But it sounds like he was alsohis dad's imaginary friend.

SPEAKER_04 (26:36):
That's weird too, right?

SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
But yeah, so he's the same.
It's Dabney Coleman playing bothof those roles.
He's like the secret agent spyJack Flack and also his dad.

SPEAKER_04 (26:48):
He is actually Davy's dad.

SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (26:50):
Hail Osborn.
Yep.
And yeah, I thought that was sointeresting that choice that he
is both of those characters.

SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
I feel like it was very intentional so that at the
end when you see like thesilhouette of Jack Flack walking
back from the explosion, it kindof like...
morphs into his dad

SPEAKER_04 (27:13):
it definitely does because like in the first
version of like this likeshadowy figure coming back
towards db you can very clearlysee the bray yeah and then it's
just his hair yeah and then andthen it like cuts away to db
cuts back and then it's likeactually the silhouette of his
dad

SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
i mean they kind of tease that i guess a little bit
with um the conversation earlierin the movie when his dad is
telling him that You don't needto shoot the bad guys to be a
hero.
Heroes fix bikes and put supperon the table.

SPEAKER_04 (27:41):
Which is not a bad thing to be telling your kid.
No.
I did sympathize with the dad.
I mean, he's...
He is that, like, military dadfrom the 80s who, like, doesn't
really show tenderness or love.

SPEAKER_02 (27:55):
Because earlier in that same scene, he's like...

SPEAKER_04 (27:57):
Yes! Oh, my God, when they're talking about how
Davy's mom passed away, he'slike, well, she's not coming
back.

SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
Because Davy says, like, she'd believe me with this
crazy story.
Yeah, and then his dad says...
She's not coming back.
Ever.

SPEAKER_04 (28:11):
Damn.
I mean, we all know that.
But anyway, so I do love DannyColeman.
And he has come up a couple oftimes.
Possibly he can come up again inthe future.
I think he will.
Maybe.
Yeah.
So he started off in TV, a tonof TV work.
I mean, he had such a longcareer.
He only passed in 2024.

(28:31):
He passed very recently.
Some of his early...
Credits include the film TheScalp Hunters.

SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
That doesn't sound cool.

SPEAKER_04 (28:42):
Yeah.
So he also it sounds like he hewas a character that crossed
over between TV series becausehe plays the same character name
in Mary Hartman, Mary Hartmanand also Forever Fernwood.

SPEAKER_03 (28:56):
So

SPEAKER_04 (28:56):
he did that.
OK, so probably the first timewe brought him up.
Well, maybe.
I'm beginning to lose trackchronologically.
But very early in the podcast,we brought him up for 9 to 5.

SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (29:08):
He is amazing.
He is the classic sleazeballboss in that.
And he's so fun.
He really goes with it.
Go check out that episode.
I was going to say that maybe atsome point we would talk about
him because he's in the film onGolden Pond.

SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Oh, okay.
So possibly.
We should have done a doublefeature of that and Cocoon.

SPEAKER_04 (29:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know what?
I think that could have workedbecause, again, it features
older actors.
And I think some of thestoryline is about just being in
that stage of life.

SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
But no aliens in Golden Pond.

SPEAKER_04 (29:43):
No aliens in Golden Pond.
The reason why I would want tocover Golden Pond is because I
do really love Henry Fonda.
I love his early work.
One of my absolute favoritefilms of all time is Lady Eve.
He was actually an amazingcomedic actor.
I think a lot of people know himmore so for his dramatic work
like Grapes of Yeah.

(30:30):
So I was going to say YoungDoctors in Love is another one
we could possibly cover.
He also he just kind of plays adifferent version of his 95.
And I don't mean that as aslight in Tootsie.
Very much.
But he's great in that.
Yeah.
We also when we actually coveredthe film, I was like, oh, he's
in it a lot less than Iremembered in War Games.

SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
He was.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I expected him to be around abit more, but

SPEAKER_04 (30:57):
same.

SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Sadly, no.

SPEAKER_04 (30:58):
And then a little bit later on in his career, a
lot more TV work.
So he was on a show calledBuffalo Bill.
I mean, also sprinkled in withstill film.
He was in the film Dragnet.
A lot more TV work.
He was on the Slap Maxwellstory, Drexel's class, Madman of
the People.
He was in the films You've GotMail, Inspector Gadget, and then

(31:23):
Later on in his career, thefilm, or I'm sorry, the TV shows
The Guardian and BoardwalkEmpire.

SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
I'm so sad that we won't be able to cover Short
Time, the hilarious 1990 moviewhere Dabney Coleman gets his
medical test mixed up withsomebody else.

SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
You have mentioned this.

SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
And he just has to somehow die in...
in the act of like fulfillinghis duty.
He's a cop.
So he has to die while he's likeworking.
And so he becomes like a supercop because he just keeps doing
increasingly risky things,hoping that he will get killed
so that his family gets thepayout from the insurance.
And then of course, right whenhe's about to like finally die,

(32:04):
he finds out, whoops, theresults were mixed up.
He survived.

SPEAKER_04 (32:08):
Go figure.

SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
So you don't have to watch the movie now.
You just...

SPEAKER_04 (32:12):
Okay, moving on to one of the baddies in this film.
It's a little convoluted.
Oh?
The whole...
Okay, so the baddies, they stealthese government secrets and
they put them on a kid's game.

SPEAKER_02 (32:35):
They keep calling it a tape.
I never called those thingstapes.
They were just like a cartridgeor

SPEAKER_04 (32:41):
something.

UNKNOWN (32:41):
So...

SPEAKER_04 (32:42):
One of the baddies' name, they call him Rice.
He's...
When you first see him, youthink he's just, like, a random
person, and then you realize,like, oh, no, he's a bad guy.
He's, like, working for thatside.

SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
Because he's dressed...
In like a lab coat or something.
Which, you know, I guess for anelectronics place, they would
wear the anti-static lab coats.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (33:05):
sure.
So played by Michael Murphy.
And actually, as I was goingthrough his filmography, I was
like, oh my God, this guy's beenin everything.
I was like, oh, that's where Iknow him from.
Oh, that's where I know himfrom.
He's been in a lot.
Still very much working.
Some of his credits, I havemostly films for him.
We have Double Trouble.

(33:25):
He was in the film MASH.

SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Oh, which actually predated the TV series, right?

SPEAKER_04 (33:32):
Correct.

SPEAKER_02 (33:33):
That's got to be the most successful movie to TV
series ever.
I

SPEAKER_04 (33:37):
think so.
I think that's a pretty, pretty,like, I would confidently agree
with you on that.

SPEAKER_02 (33:43):
Mostly because that's one of the most
successful TV shows ever.

SPEAKER_04 (33:46):
Of all time.

SPEAKER_02 (33:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (33:47):
Yep.
McCabe and Mrs.
Miller.
What's Up Doc, which is anamazing comedy.
Nashville.
He must have had a good workingrelationship with Robert Allman.
He was in An Unmarried Woman,Manhattan, The Year of Living
Dangerously.
I was like, oh, sure.
I do remember him in this.
He is the mayor in BatmanReturns.

SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
Oh.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:11):
Yeah.
So he's in that.
Private Parts, the film Magnolia

SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
with Tom Cruise.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:19):
He was on the TV series This Is Wonderland.
He was in one of the X-Menmovies, X-Men The Last Stand.
Okay, that's a good one.
More recently, the TV show TheBridge.
So this is going to kind of holdtrue for, I think, almost
everybody else in this cast, ifI'm bringing them up.
A lot of one-offs, two-offs onTV shows.

(34:42):
Okay, so this character, veryfun.
Davy's friend Kim.

SPEAKER_02 (34:48):
She was hilarious.
She was very concerned with theperception.
Looking embarrassed.
Yeah, she did not want to beembarrassed using their walkie
talkies, which was a greatconcept.
I mean, in the 80s.
No cell phones.
How do you get these kids to beable to talk?
You invent magic walkie talkiesthat cover the entire city of
San Antonio.

SPEAKER_04 (35:08):
And this kid, she's a little like Spitfire.
She's like very opinionated,very like she she knows herself
at a very young age.
Like she's very self-possessed,played by Christina Negra.
And

SPEAKER_02 (35:25):
oh, man, now I know where I remember her from.

SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Where?

SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
I'll let you go through the credits.

SPEAKER_04 (35:30):
Okay, I don't have a lot for her.
Okay.
Because it seems like she, forthe most, there's, like, one
credit, I think, from 2017, but,like, for the most part, she
kind of veered out of being infront of the camera as she got
older.
But she had, like, a very smallstint.
Like, she did some TV work,like, one-offs, two-offs.
She had, I think, like, atwo-episode arc on Trapper John

(35:52):
MD.
Amazing.

UNKNOWN (35:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (35:54):
She was in the film The Sword and the Sorcerer.
Is that where you know her from?

SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
It's not.

SPEAKER_04 (36:00):
So I highly, highly doubt we brought her up for
this, but she is– In thesegment, what is it?
Nightmare at 20,000 Feet forTwilight Zone, the movie.

SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
So that's the one with John Lithgow.
Correct.
William Shatner played theoriginal episode.
Yeah.
I think we might have broughther up just because she's kind
of the same.
She's a little spitfire, Iguess, in that...
like, in that bit in theNightmare at 20,000 Feet.
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (36:28):
you do think we brought her up?

SPEAKER_02 (36:30):
We might have, because I remember...
That's what I remember her from.

SPEAKER_04 (36:32):
Okay.
I don't know if I remembered herfrom that,

SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
but it's possible we...
Because Lithgow is flipping out,and she's just, like, very
opinionated on what's happeningon this planet.

SPEAKER_04 (36:42):
Yeah.
She...
So her...
Her most, if you want to say,her most substantial credit is
that she was on, I think, mostof the series of Out of This
World, where I just remember,because the girl, her dad's an
alien, she could stop time byputting her fingers together.

SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
Oh, there were so many shows.
Like, there was Small Wonder.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:05):
Lots of very strange shows from the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 (37:08):
Hey, we have a daughter.
She's a robot.
She's a robot.
Can't let anyone know.
But

SPEAKER_04 (37:12):
can't tell anybody

SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
that.
Hey, she's an alien.
Don't tell anyone.
Hey, it's an elf.

SPEAKER_04 (37:17):
Half alien.
Half alien.
Her mom was human.
Kind of like Guardians of theGalaxy.
Star Wars.
Yeah.
But yeah, she's very fun in thismovie.
And she really brings a lot oflife to it.
She's a great...
little actor to play off ofDavey yeah and she's even more

(37:38):
like independent than he is likeit's wild these like I said like
her taking the bus all byherself and like she's

SPEAKER_02 (37:47):
well fun she's not going through the same uh same
personal trauma that Davey isgoing through yeah um

SPEAKER_04 (37:55):
I don't know where her dad is but yeah but her
mom's a single mom

SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
she yeah exactly um So she's at least as
independent, if not more, butshe's not battling whatever Davy
is working through with thedeath of his mom.
So it gives her the ability.
She can move about even morefreely than Davy can because
Davy's dad is like, stop playingthese games.

(38:20):
All

SPEAKER_04 (38:22):
right, moving on to that older couple that you
mentioned.
Kind of interesting, they comein pretty late.
in the story, I would, I wouldsay my own opinion.
It's,

SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
yeah, they come in like probably after the halfway
mark because it's when he's inSan Antonio on this like boat
ride thing.

SPEAKER_04 (38:42):
Correct.
And you think at first they aregoing to in some way help him.

SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (38:47):
But it's, they're, they're bad spies too.
I would

SPEAKER_02 (38:51):
say they're exceptional spies.

SPEAKER_04 (38:53):
Except, yes, they're exceptionally bad spies.
Meaning they're, They're thebaddies.
They're the villains.
And what is so fun about thiscouple is that I love when they
do this where they, like, pullthese actors who have these,
like, really impressive careersthat they've had, like, for

(39:13):
decades.
And then they're in a– if it'sokay to say, like a film like
this.
It's just very fun to me.
And both of them, both of theseactors had amazing careers.
We're going to start with JohnMcIntyre.
Fun

SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
fact, they were married for like over 50 years
in real life.

SPEAKER_04 (39:31):
Yeah.
And funny that you should saythat because they have a lot of
crossover with their credits.
I'm not surprised.
Yeah.
And he is very familiar looking.
Honestly, looking through hisfilmography, I couldn't quite
pinpoint why he looked familiarto me, but he looked very
familiar to me.
So to your point, they weremarried.

(39:55):
He passed first.
He passed in 1991.
So he plays George, GeorgeMcCready.
And what a career.
They both started out in the40s.
So many credits for each ofthem.
I mean, some of his more notableones.
And I do have like a little bitof a mix between TV and film.

(40:15):
The film called Northside 777,The Asphalt Jungle, The Tin
Star.
He was on the TV series NakedCity.
He was in the original Psycho.
Wow.
He, I think, was like thesheriff.

SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
Yeah.
Okay.

UNKNOWN (40:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:30):
I thought this was so interesting.
I can't say I remember him fromthis film, but the film Elmer
Gantry.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it.
I am not.
We watched it in film school.
I think it's like 1960.
And I want to say Burt Lancasterwon an Oscar for the role very

(40:50):
ahead of its time.
It's basically about kind oflike a salesman who...
presents himself as a preacherand gains this following because
of his charismatic ways that mayor may not reflect his true
interest or good intentions asfar as religion is concerned.

SPEAKER_02 (41:13):
So a Righteous Gemstones prequel.
Yes.
Kind of.
In

SPEAKER_04 (41:17):
a lot of ways.
So he's in that.
A couple TV series.
A lot of Westerns.
That makes sense.
Wagon Train, The Virginian.
Not a Western.
He was in the film Herbie RidesAgain.
This is fun.
Although the film is not fun.
But he is one of the voices inThe Fox and the Hound.

SPEAKER_02 (41:40):
Oh, my God.

SPEAKER_04 (41:41):
His final credit was Turner and Hooch.
And beyond what I mentioned, somany TV appearances.
One-offs, two-offs, all of that.
So...
Okay, moving on to the personwho plays his wife and his wife,
Jeanette Nolan.
So she plays Eunice McCready.

SPEAKER_02 (42:03):
Missing a couple fingers there, she is.
Yes,

SPEAKER_04 (42:05):
she is.
She passed away a few yearsafter him.
He passed in 91.
She passed in 98.
Also an amazing career.
I mean, out the gate.
It was like her first credit asfar as IMDb is concerned.
She was Lady Macbeth.
Wow.
In 1948's Macbeth, which OrsonWelles plays Macbeth.

(42:26):
So like she played his wife.
I mean, not a bad first gig.
So she was in that.
The Big Heat.
This is fun.
She's in Psycho.
She is the accredited voice ofNorma Bates.

SPEAKER_02 (42:41):
Wow.

SPEAKER_04 (42:41):
Yeah.
So that's pretty fun.
So they're both in Psycho.
He's the sheriff and she didsome voice work.
She was in The Man Who ShotLiberty of Alice.
Yeah.
Some TV work, The Richard BooneShow.
This is a film and anotherreally fun title.
This is the title.
Did you hear the one about thetraveling sales lady?

(43:04):
That's the name of the movie.
She also was on the show, TheVirginian.
More TV work, Gunsmoke.
So she also did a fair amount ofWesterns.
Dirty Sally.
She also...
was one of the voices in The Foxand the Hound.
God damn it.
I think that's like sointeresting that they both did
some voice work

SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
for that film.
Leave me alone, Fox and theHound.

SPEAKER_04 (43:25):
Yeah.
And then her final credit wasThe Horse Whisperer, the film.
Oh.
Okay, so moving on to, I'm goingto call them like the henchmen
kind of.
Neither of them get a lot tosay.
For both of them, it's a lot ofrunning around, trying to get

(43:45):
Davey.
They have no qualms aboutkilling a kid.

SPEAKER_02 (43:48):
No, they don't.
I mean, the first evil person wespoke of had this whole
monologue where he's talkingabout how slowly he's going to
kill Davey.
Like

SPEAKER_04 (44:00):
blow out his kneecaps.

SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
Shoot him in the stomach.
Yeah.
And then just watch him dieslowly.

SPEAKER_04 (44:05):
Pretty rough.

SPEAKER_02 (44:06):
Kids movie, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 (44:07):
Pretty rough.
Yeah.
Well, you know, that'sinteresting because I was
thinking about that.
Like, I think that there's a lotof this in 80s films.
There is, yeah.
It's become much more black andwhite, I would say, for a lot,
not all.
Like, I do, it's very clear thatthe studios are, like, trying to
hit all four quadrants with alot of the animated films in

(44:27):
particular that they put out.
This is not an animated film.
But for a lot of, like, liveaction movies, back in the day,
it was like an interesting kindof like position does maybe a
kid's film, but maybe not akid's film with like some of the
story and dialogue.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
I mean, I think it's just like a classic eighties
movie that was trying to be akid's film that just had stuff
that went a little too far.

SPEAKER_04 (44:54):
Yeah, that too.
So the, their names are justAlvarez and Alvarez, I think I
misspelled it.
Is it Haverman?
That

SPEAKER_02 (45:05):
sounds right.

SPEAKER_04 (45:06):
So the first, played by Eloy Casados, and he has
passed.
He passed in 2016.
Both of these guys, well, okay,I think Casados was more of a
straight actor.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (45:20):
you'd recognize him in things, I think.

SPEAKER_04 (45:22):
Yeah, you would.
Although, again, he did a lot ofteamwork, a lot of one-offs,
two-offs, that kind of thing.
One of the more substantial arcsthat he had was on a TV show
called Young Dan.
I don't know why theyabbreviated Daniel, but it's
essentially Young Daniel Boone.

SPEAKER_03 (45:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (45:40):
He did that.
But some of the films, varyingstages of like the size of the
role, Down and Out in BeverlyHills, Hollywood Vice Squad,
Harley Davidson and the MarlboroMan.
It's tough.
It's hard to say.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
you got to say it.
Marlboro Man.

SPEAKER_04 (45:58):
There

SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
you go.

UNKNOWN (45:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:58):
White Man Can't Jump.
Okay.
Cobb.
Hollywood Homicide.
So he was in Hollywood ViceSquad and Hollywood Homicide.

SPEAKER_02 (46:07):
He's worked his way up or...
Was that more of a lateral move?
I don't know.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (46:12):
Frost Nixon.
Okay.
He has a bit part.
I thought this was fun because Ido love this movie.
And Bridesmaids.
And then his final appearancewas in the film As You Like It.
Okay, so the other gentleman...
Um, it's pretty clear.
Like, and there are a number ofthese guys.
I mean, I don't know.
Most infamously maybe is, uh, OJSimpson, where you have these

(46:33):
former football players whocreate a second career for
themselves in entertainment.
And that's what this guy did.
Tim Rosovich.
He was a football player.
He

SPEAKER_02 (46:42):
looks like a football player.
100%.
He looks, he looks exactly likeif someone was like, I just want
to cast a football player forthis.
That's exactly what he looks

SPEAKER_04 (46:52):
like.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (46:53):
I don't want him to say anything, but physically I
want him to be like intimidatingand be able to move around.
The

SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
character of Alvarez is more menacing.
Yeah.
This character's just likestraight, like he's the muscle.

SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
He's the muscle.

SPEAKER_04 (47:06):
Yeah.
He's also passed.
He passed in 2018.
And I mean, he did well forhimself.
Like he did have a whole careerin sports.
NFL.
So he had that.
But as far as like his actingcareer, some of his credits
include that TV series withBilly Crystal, Soap.

SPEAKER_03 (47:24):
Oh, he had like

SPEAKER_04 (47:25):
a little little stint on that.
Some more TV work on When theWhistle Blows.
Don't know that, but I do knowFantasy Island.
He was on Fantasy Island for abit.
I doubt we brought him upbecause I think the role was
fairly small, but he was.
Check out the episode.
But he's in the film NightShift.

SPEAKER_02 (47:43):
Trying to think of where he would have been.
We probably didn't mention him.

SPEAKER_04 (47:47):
No.
And then he's in The Sting, too.
Nice.
Okay, finally.
This is a very interestingcharacter to me.
And the way that they deal withthe character is also very
interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (48:00):
You must be talking about Morris.
I

SPEAKER_04 (48:02):
am talking about Morris.
So Morris is Davey's adultfriend.
He, I guess, is smart.
computer savvy he

SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
runs or owns a game store

SPEAKER_04 (48:19):
yeah yeah that's that's the sense I got of it and
yeah he and Davey are pals andprobably bonded over video games
played by William Forsythe whichwhen I realized that was him I
was like holy fuck like he'salmost unrecognized I know him
so much more from his Laterwork.

SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
Well, between the hair and the glasses.
Yes.
It's like,

SPEAKER_04 (48:42):
yeah.
And I am not body shaming, buthe's a little bit of a heavier
set character in this film.

SPEAKER_02 (48:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (48:50):
So I just did not recognize him at all.
He

SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
looked kind of familiar.
So I looked up the casting andI'm like, holy cow.

SPEAKER_04 (48:59):
Yeah.
I mean, he's just so young.
He's so young in this movie thatI was like, oh, okay.

UNKNOWN (49:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (49:08):
very much working to this day very busy and among his
credits once upon a time inamerica i don't i don't think we
brought him up for raisingarizona

SPEAKER_02 (49:22):
we maybe maybe we i mean because he was one of the
the brothers along with johngoodman

SPEAKER_04 (49:27):
yes

SPEAKER_02 (49:28):
right so yes if we hadn't Our bad.

SPEAKER_04 (49:32):
He was in Dick Tracy, American Me.
He was in the TV series, TheUntouchables.
He played Capone in that.
Oh.
A lot more film and TV work.
He was in Things to Do in DenverWhen You're Dead.
Maybe some people know him fromThe Rock.

SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
Possibly.
I

SPEAKER_04 (49:53):
put this in just because we keep seeing
commercials for the TV show, buthe's in the film.
The librarians, I don't know ifthere's any relationship between
those two.

SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
There can't be.
There simply cannot

SPEAKER_04 (50:05):
be.
I think he actually probably hassome kind of good, positive
relationship with Rob Zombiebecause he's both in The Devil's
Rejects and the reimagining ofHalloween, like the Rob Zombie
Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (50:19):
Again, worst franchise ever for not coming up
with original names.
I

SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
don't know what you would even call the Rob Zombie
ones.
I

SPEAKER_04 (50:29):
mean, he should have just done what Carpenter did
where it's like John Carpenter'sblah, blah, blah.
I don't know why it's justcalled Halloween.
You would think he would want toemphasize the fact that it's his
version of Halloween.
Very much is his version ofHalloween.
One hundred percent.
He I

SPEAKER_02 (50:45):
do think I like his version of Halloween better than
I liked his version of theMunsters, which I have not
watched.

SPEAKER_04 (50:51):
And he's if it's been a minute since I watched
that film, but I believe he isMike Myers mom's boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 (50:59):
OK, that sounds right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (51:02):
Yeah.
a lot more tv work boardwalkempire the mob doctor i thought
this was fun because it's like iguess in a way like a reteaming
he was in the film tom holland'stwisted tales nice he he seems
to also have embraced likehorror to to some degree um and
then more recently the tv seriesthe man in the high castle and
the film nine windows

SPEAKER_02 (51:24):
and he was in one episode of daredevil

SPEAKER_04 (51:27):
Oh, I saw that too.
But is it, I saw Daredevil, itwas like 2016, right?

SPEAKER_02 (51:31):
That was, so the season that was just on Disney
Plus is like the next seasonfrom that same like show, cast,
everything from the Netflixversion.
So it's all still part of likethe same group.
But am I

SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
right with the date though?

SPEAKER_02 (51:45):
Yeah, he was on like an older

SPEAKER_04 (51:48):
episode.
Oh, it's been going on and offfor that long?

SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
Well, Netflix had it for a while and then Disney,
like it took them a while beforethey were able to pull that over
to Disney Plus.

SPEAKER_04 (52:00):
Got it.

SPEAKER_02 (52:00):
Get the rights and actually make new episodes.

SPEAKER_04 (52:03):
Film synopsis.

SPEAKER_02 (52:05):
What do we got?

SPEAKER_04 (52:06):
A young boy and his imaginary friend end up on the
run while in possession of a topsecret spy gadget.

SPEAKER_02 (52:16):
Sure, that works.
I don't think

SPEAKER_04 (52:18):
it's like

SPEAKER_02 (52:19):
a

SPEAKER_04 (52:19):
gadget, but...

SPEAKER_02 (52:21):
What's the point, do you think, of...
Like, so it's a game.
It's like a skill-based kind ofgame where you have to reach a
certain score.
Would everyone be capable?
Like, was the intent that thiscartridge would go to someone
with the requisite skill tounlock the code to then...
That's a

SPEAKER_04 (52:40):
great question.
I

SPEAKER_02 (52:41):
don't know.
And then it looked like it wasjust a diagram of a Blackbird
SR-71.
Yeah.
That was the spy plane.

SPEAKER_04 (52:49):
Yeah, that's all very good questions.
And it's just like a reallyinteresting concept for a film.
And I am curious how theypitched it in terms of like who
the audience is.

SPEAKER_02 (53:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (53:07):
I think...
You know, we've brought this upalready.
To me, the most...
So, look, I had fun because I'venever watched the film.
I didn't even know about thefilm until you brought it up.
I had no idea that this filmexisted.
It was very fun to see HenryThomas in another role as, like,
a child actor because he is sogood.
And I love Dabney Coleman.

SPEAKER_02 (53:27):
Yeah, I figure, like, notwithstanding the story,
which is a bit nonsensical attimes, like, it's fun to watch
them.

SPEAKER_04 (53:35):
It's fun, um...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(53:59):
If I may say, Davey's like alittle bit more collected about
it than I thought a kid wouldbe.

SPEAKER_02 (54:05):
Yes, because he climbs into the fucking trunk of
the car with that dead body.

SPEAKER_04 (54:08):
With his dead body.

SPEAKER_02 (54:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (54:10):
And he's like sad.
Also,

SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
amazing trunk space in the 80s.
Yes.
No way are you fitting that manybodies in a trunk today.

SPEAKER_04 (54:17):
He's definitely sad.
But as like a child, I was like,wow, he's taking this really
well.
He didn't even care.
His friend is dead, dead, killedin a very violent way.
And now he is in a trunk withthe dead body of his friend.

SPEAKER_02 (54:31):
He cared only enough to comment on the lack of space
in the trunk with that

SPEAKER_04 (54:35):
It was

SPEAKER_02 (54:36):
wild

SPEAKER_04 (54:37):
to me how, in a way, blasé he was about the fact that
his friend had died.

SPEAKER_02 (54:43):
Yeah, no, that's fair.
That might be something that thedad wants to bring up with the
doctor that they

SPEAKER_04 (54:48):
eventually...
That was disturbing that hedidn't care more.
Anyway, so, I mean, I guess thething I did appreciate...
And then what's funny is, like,he's, like, kind of whatever,
right?
about his friend dying, but thenwhen Jack is pushing him to kill
the baddies, that's when hegrows a little bit more of a

(55:09):
moral compass and caring aboutthe sanctity of life and not
wanting to kill these guys.

SPEAKER_02 (55:14):
It was interesting because I don't think I noticed
this when I was replaying a fewclips to try to find something
for the intro.
He actually tells Davey, Hiswhole plan was to distract that
guy and get him to shoot thewall and the bullets would
bounce off the concrete and hithim.
So he was trying to reallyconvince Davey that he wouldn't

(55:35):
have to kill.
But Davey does kill someone inthis.

SPEAKER_04 (55:37):
He kills somebody.
Yeah.
He kills Rice.
And

SPEAKER_02 (55:43):
what's really interesting is that the act of
him killing is what made himgrow up and what made Jack go
away.
It's

SPEAKER_04 (55:51):
wild, yes.
Yes, it's absolutely wild.
And just even little things too,like the old couple, which it's
just, again, funny that this isthe way that they decided to do
this movie.
When they kidnap him, theykidnap him so that they can
presumably hijack a plane.
And they're literally like, ifyou don't get us a pilot to get

(56:13):
us out of here, I'm going toblow his brains out.
I mean, it's just really wild.

SPEAKER_02 (56:17):
Violent language.
They're bluffing.
No, they're not.

SPEAKER_04 (56:20):
Yes.
It's like, wow.
Okay.
But yeah, it was...

SPEAKER_02 (56:25):
But look, they weren't ever going to kill him
because he was the only one onthe plane.

SPEAKER_04 (56:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
You don't have much leverage left after you kill the
only passenger.
It's

SPEAKER_04 (56:34):
true.
It's true.
And that's cloak and dagger.
So, I mean, as far as watchingthe film again...
Sure.
I've never even once seen it onTV.
It's never crossed my pathbefore to my knowledge.
I

SPEAKER_02 (56:51):
don't think, yeah.
I never have just been likescrolling.
We'd have

SPEAKER_04 (56:55):
to suss it out.
I know you were like, I'm notbuying this film when we had

SPEAKER_02 (56:59):
to.
So look, sometimes it's like, Ifyou're going to buy the movie,
digital copy, it's like$4 torent it,$6 to buy it.
Sure.
And that's how we've ended upwith several movies from the
80s.
That we

SPEAKER_04 (57:13):
are never going to probably watch again.
Probably not.

SPEAKER_02 (57:15):
But this one was like$15 to buy.
Oh, no.
Like, yeah, no.
$4 to rent.
That's fine.

SPEAKER_04 (57:21):
I mean, call the auction.
I mean, look, I don't mean to goto the simplest one, but I am
very curious who knows aboutthis movie.

SPEAKER_02 (57:31):
People know about this movie.

SPEAKER_04 (57:33):
I have far from exhaustive knowledge of the 80s,
but I've never even heard ofthis

SPEAKER_02 (57:37):
film.

SPEAKER_04 (57:37):
Do you think it's more, not to, I hate to draw
gender lines, but do you thinkmore boys know about it than
girls?

SPEAKER_02 (57:43):
Maybe, probably, probably.

UNKNOWN (57:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (57:45):
well if you want to reach out we would love to hear
from you you can get in touchthrough facebook instagram or
blue sky it is the same handleat all three it is at 80s
montage pod and 80s is 80s

SPEAKER_02 (57:57):
yeah

SPEAKER_04 (57:58):
so i did bring up this film

SPEAKER_02 (58:00):
what

SPEAKER_04 (58:01):
in our look guess what huh this upcoming episode
is already the halfway mark inthis season

SPEAKER_02 (58:08):
okay

SPEAKER_04 (58:09):
crazy

SPEAKER_02 (58:09):
right are we already starting the halloween movies
Very soon.

SPEAKER_04 (58:14):
Not very soon, but soon enough.
Yeah.
Crazy to think that we'realready halfway through season
six.

SPEAKER_02 (58:25):
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (58:25):
It is.
Yeah.
Do you know which film we arecovering that I mentioned
earlier in this episode?

SPEAKER_02 (58:31):
Nope.

SPEAKER_04 (58:36):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (58:37):
Did you just, was it like a title that just came up?
Yeah.
It wasn't like.

SPEAKER_04 (58:43):
Well, because one of the players for this film also
worked on the one that's comingup next.

SPEAKER_02 (58:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (58:50):
So.

SPEAKER_02 (58:50):
We've talked about so many movies.
It's

SPEAKER_04 (58:53):
summertime or about to be officially summer.
Okay.
So like the unofficial start ofsummer has happened because
we're past Memorial Day.
The official start of summer isin a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_02 (59:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (59:02):
But.

SPEAKER_02 (59:03):
Celestially speaking.

SPEAKER_04 (59:04):
Correct.
Yeah.
So a lot of people go on roadtrips.

SPEAKER_02 (59:10):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 (59:11):
During this time, family road trips.

SPEAKER_02 (59:13):
Got it.
Got it.

SPEAKER_04 (59:14):
Maybe to amusement parks.

SPEAKER_02 (59:16):
Okay.
All right.

SPEAKER_04 (59:16):
And every once in a while, I mean, I've never heard
of this, but the entireamusement park is closed and so
they can't enjoy this amusementpark that they traveled all the
way across the country for.

SPEAKER_02 (59:26):
This sounds like something that John Candy would
be in just at the end as asecurity guard.

SPEAKER_04 (59:30):
He might be my favorite part.

SPEAKER_02 (59:31):
For Wally World?
Yes.
In National Lampoon's justvacation.
Correct.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (59:36):
That's it.
Yeah.
I thought- Okay, let's do thisone.
It seems like a nice, fun littleway to usher in summer.

SPEAKER_02 (59:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (59:44):
And arguably, I know a lot of people have a very
nostalgic affinity for ChristmasVacation.
This is probably my favorite ofthe Vacation movies.

SPEAKER_02 (59:57):
I mean, I already know that you're going to...
The dog.
Yeah.
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:01):
know.
I don't know

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:04):
where to get through that.
I know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:07):
Minus that part.
Yeah.
But because it's a little bitmore understated, they get
progressively more kind ofwacky.
We do.
As the series goes on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:15):
It's always fun to see all of the ways in which
Chevy Chase almost cheats on hiswife.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:21):
In all of them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:22):
Yeah.
It's actually, now I'm thinkingabout it, it'll be good to watch
it.
It's been a very long time sinceI've watched it.
But it'll be good to watch itagain because I'm just
remembering, it seemed like sucha long sequence between him
looking over at her in the carwhile they're both driving to
the pool scene.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:40):
Who was it?
Christie Brinkley?
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:42):
Yeah.
So- That's coming on tap next.
And in the meantime, just thankyou so much to everybody out
there for taking the time tochoose our podcast and hang with
us for a little bit.
We appreciate it.
You have many choices out there.
So

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:00):
many.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:01):
So many.
So thank you.
And we will talk to you again intwo weeks' time.