Thief

In this episode, Anna and Derek chat about how this early work from Michael Mann set the stage for his future films, if Frank really needed that last score, and much more during their discussion of the James Caan starrer Thief (1981). 

Connect with '80s Movie Montage on Facebook, Bluesky or Instagram! It's the same handle for all three... @80smontagepod.

Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Now, I get up in the morning, I take a shower, I go

(00:12):
to work, I have a job, I have asocial security card, and my
life is very ordinary, veryboring, which is good, because
it's solid.

SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
Your marking time is what you are.
You're backing off, you'rehiding out, you're waiting for a
bus that you hope never comesbecause you don't want to get on
it anyway because you don't wantto go anywhere, all right?

SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Do you have a license for this?

SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage.
This is Derek.

SPEAKER_04 (00:38):
And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
And that was James Caan as Frank talking to Tuesday
Weld as Jesse in 1981's Thief.
Thief.
Thief.

SPEAKER_04 (00:48):
Which, to be fair, when she's like, I have a Social
Security card now, I think youalways did.
Like, you would if you were bornhere.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
Probably.

SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
Probably.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03):
Thief.
I'm super excited to talk aboutthis one.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05):
The Heat prequel that we never...
Really new existence.
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:10):
mean, it is wild how much of a precursor this is to
heat in a lot of ways.
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
was so excited when they said the word heat in the
movie.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20):
There were a lot of times where I was like, oh, and
all the things.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
You never crack any safe that you can't get away
from within 30 seconds.

UNKNOWN (01:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
He does not say that, but man, I wish he had.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30):
No, it's like this really interesting crossover
between the story of Heat andthe character of Sonny from The
Godfather.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:41):
And yeah, let's dive in.
So very early in the decade,this came out in 1981.
And part of the reason why I'mso excited to talk about this
movie is because it is thefirst...
Maybe not the last.
I think we have other options totalk about Michael Mann.

SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
We have a couple others.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:05):
I know we have at least one, but I think that
might be it.
Yeah.
But it is actually kind ofinteresting that this is the
first Michael Mann film thatwe've done because you probably
would think that it would havebeen Manhunter, but it's not.
It

SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
isn't.

SPEAKER_04 (02:19):
It isn't.
And...
So two credited writers, Mann isone of them.
He has Story and Scream playedby...
However, before we get to him,it is based on a book.
So the way that IMDb has it,it's based on the book The Home
Invaders.
The full title is The HomeInvaders, like, colon,

(02:42):
Confessions of a Cat Burglar.

SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Which I believe, like, the guy who...
wrote this was actually

SPEAKER_04 (02:50):
his name's frank

SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
was in prison frank it's

SPEAKER_04 (02:53):
like um catch me if you can except probably they did
and actually i think frank wasalso the name of that character
that movie anyway um frank wouldyou say uh homin how would you
say

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
something hominem no

SPEAKER_04 (03:09):
ha haimer

SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
hoheimer i'm just calling him hoheimer

SPEAKER_04 (03:14):
okay Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Or ha-ha-mer.

SPEAKER_04 (03:18):
But yeah, so are you looking at his bio?

SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
I had read a little bit of it earlier, but I'm
assuming that based off of thenature of this movie and the
title of that book, Michael Mannchanged up a couple things.

SPEAKER_04 (03:34):
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
sure.
Because Frank was not, in fact,in the movie, a home invader.

SPEAKER_04 (03:38):
No, no.
I mean, I think he would havehad...
Potentially less sympathy.

SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
He made it really clear, like, I only steal
diamonds.

SPEAKER_04 (03:46):
Yes, he did.
And cash.

SPEAKER_02 (03:48):
And cash.

SPEAKER_04 (03:48):
And cash.
Yes.
Thank you for that call out tothe film being set in Chicago.
It

SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
was, it was, I said cash kind of like Chicago, but I
felt like almost everyone inthis movie was like transplanted
recently from New York.

SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Yes.

UNKNOWN (04:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:07):
Very

SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
true.
I don't know if there was asingle Chicago accent in the
whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 (04:10):
Maybe Jim Belushi.

SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
Maybe.
Maybe.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:13):
But in any case, yes.
So based on this book, theauthor, Frank, he passed in 2005
and makes sense.
This happened.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, you can swing on thispendulum like Stephen King, who
is...
A writer has hundreds andhundreds upon credits because
his works have been adapted somany times.

(04:34):
Yeah.
But this is Frank's only credit.

SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Well, you know, write what you know.

SPEAKER_04 (04:39):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
And he knew burglary.

SPEAKER_04 (04:42):
So Mann, as mentioned, he takes this book.
He makes a screenplay out of it.
And...
We even when we have like awriter director scenario with
one of our movies, I like tokind of split it up because it's
not always exactly the same.
So it looks like, you know, hedid kind of start in the

(05:03):
industry more so as a writer.
And there's a very clear throughline with a lot of what he's
interested in, namely, like,cops and robbers honestly like
that's kind of what it breaksdown to he wrote for Starsky and
Hutch the TV series he wrote forPolice Story

SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
probably some cops

SPEAKER_04 (05:22):
he wrote for I don't know this one Vegas with the S
as like a dollar sign

SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
Vega dollar sign

SPEAKER_04 (05:29):
well that's You know it's Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
I don't

SPEAKER_03 (05:32):
know

SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
that.

SPEAKER_04 (05:32):
And, I mean, it's like so on the nose with some of
these.
Like I said, he wrote for PoliceStory.
He also wrote for Crime Story.
So he did that.
But then he has gone outside ofthat for sure.
I mean, one– Probably myfavorite Michael Mann movie is
Heat, but I adore The Last ofthe Mohicans.

(05:55):
And he does.
He did write that.
I

SPEAKER_02 (05:57):
had no idea.
Obviously,

SPEAKER_04 (05:58):
again, that's an adaptation.
But

SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
yeah.
Yeah.
But still the screenplay.

SPEAKER_04 (06:03):
Yeah.
Beautiful film.
It's honestly one of those likealmost too hard to watch movies
for me, especially the

SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
end.
Yeah.
The end gets everyone.
The

SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
end is just too much.
But beautiful, beautiful filmand amazing score.
And yes.
He has a writing credit forHeat.
We will probably many, manytimes over the course of this
episode bring up thesimilarities to Heat.
And I don't mean that as aknock.

(06:32):
on this film at all.
I think it's really fascinatingto see this very early work of
his.
I

SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
mean, this was a it was a really good movie.
I really enjoyed it.
There were some momentsthroughout where I had a few
minor critiques, like maybe whenhe was looking for the guy at
the end for what seemed like twohours in the house.
But this is a good movie.
And then Heat, if anything,feels like this perfected.

SPEAKER_04 (06:57):
Yes.
Exactly that.
So he is Oscar nominated, well,for several different
categories, but specificallyhere, he had a Oscar nom for
Best Adapted Screenplay for thefilm The Insider.
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
yeah, that was...
Great movie.
That was great with RussellCrane.
Had one of my favorite courtroomscenes ever when they're talking
about jurisdiction and NDAs.
Sounds like really...
Super exciting stuff.
It is.
A lot of shouting going on inthat scene.

SPEAKER_04 (07:30):
I remember that was a movie where I literally went
into it not knowing anything.
I had no clue what I was aboutto watch, but it was really
good.
I did not realize, and probablyvery, I don't know, stupidly so,
I didn't know that he wrote anddirected Ali.

SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
No, no, the Will Smith, Muhammad Ali film,

SPEAKER_04 (07:50):
yeah.
He also...
wrote and directed the filmversion of Miami Vice with what
Colin Farrell and Jamie Foxx Ithink are the leads potentially
let's

SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
let's go with that why

SPEAKER_04 (08:07):
not rocket and tubs yeah I never even watched that
show

SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
I never watched the show and I never saw the movie

SPEAKER_04 (08:14):
and then uh He also, so he does a lot of this.
So yes, there will be like alittle bit of repetition once we
get to his directing credits.
But he wrote and directed PublicEnemies with Johnny Depp.

SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (08:25):
So he has a very clear, with some outliers, but a
very clear like genre of And

SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
it's crime.
And it's

SPEAKER_04 (08:34):
crime.
Yeah.
Okay.
So moving on to Michael Mann,because like I said, he also
directed this film.

SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
The director.

SPEAKER_04 (08:43):
The director.
So real quick, just because I amgoing to get to a couple things.
relevant more Oscar noms, butthis didn't really fit anywhere
else.
I didn't realize that he musthave been a producer on The
Aviator because he had a BestPicture Oscar nom for

SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
it.
Yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
Yeah.
So that's kind of cool.
It's really interesting that hewas a producer on Scorsese's
film.
In any case, so he really had alot.
He was very busy.
Well, I mean, look, he's beenbusy for a really long time, but
most of the films that we can'tcover are like the biggies are
in the 90s.
So Manhunter is probably theonly other film we're going to,

(09:24):
at some point, cover of his.

SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Yeah, that's true.
That's fair.

SPEAKER_04 (09:27):
So that also came very early in his career.
And as mentioned, so everything,almost everything.

SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Manhunter is basically the first time we were
ever exposed to Dr.
Hannibal Lecter.
It was the first of those, likekind of, and then they had like,
You know, the Silence of theLambs came out and then they
had, I think, Red Dragon withEdward Norton.
And that Red Dragon movie isbasically like the modernized
version of Manhunter.

SPEAKER_04 (09:55):
Did Red Dragon come before or after Hannibal?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
I'm not sure.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (10:07):
I don't need to watch that movie again.

SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Nah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:09):
Silence of the Lambs is great.
I don't need to watch thesequel.

SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:14):
In any case, that's that's not Michael Mann.
But so, yes, he directedManhunter.
He did direct Last of theMohicans Heat.
He because he directed TheInsider and also was a producer
on it.
He got a Best Director and BestPicture Oscar nom for that film.
So that was like he got three.
nominations for the insiderincluding best adapted

(10:36):
screenplay uh as mentioned hedirected ali so he did not write
on this but he did another greatfilm of his probably of his more
recent films which i think it'salready maybe about 20 years old
love collateral

SPEAKER_02 (10:50):
that is my favorite of his films i didn't realize
that he hadn't written that butum yeah that's my favorite

SPEAKER_04 (10:57):
yeah no it's great it's a great performance by both
leads

SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
yeah

SPEAKER_04 (11:01):
um It's

SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
good to see Tom Cruise as the villain.
Yeah.
I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_04 (11:08):
I honestly can't remember.
I'm sure we talked about thisoff mic, but we recently had a
conversation about how Cruisehas gone away from exploring
more, I don't know, differentroles.
Now he is just like the...
It's almost his own version ofsuperhero.

SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
Ethan Hunt.
I need you to trust me one moretime.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (11:28):
exactly.
So but that's a greatperformance by him.
Again, he directed Miami Vice,the film, Public Enemies, and
then more recently, Ferrari.
There's so many movies latelyabout fast cars.

SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Yeah.
F1.
F1 is one with.
Yeah.
And then

SPEAKER_04 (11:45):
Ford versus Ferrari.

SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Yeah.
That was a few years ago.

SPEAKER_04 (11:50):
Yeah.
But do you think it was allkicked off by the Fast and the
Furious?
I mean, there's always been carmovies, but...

SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
Could be.
Maybe.
Maybe there's like some marketresearch where like fast cars
get people in the theaters.

SPEAKER_04 (12:03):
Possibly.
Okay.
Cinematography.
I love the way this movie looks.
It is...
We were just talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
Yes.
Part of it is...
For sure, the cinematographerand part of it, I'm assuming,
correct me if I'm wrong, is thecinematographer successfully
executing on the vision in someways.
But it's a collaboration, yousaid.

SPEAKER_04 (12:26):
My guess is Michael Mann, probably even this early
in his career, had a very strongdirection, so to speak, that he
wanted to take with thecinematography.

SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
Looking at his filmography now, that would seem
to be the case.
Yeah.
Who knows at the time.
In

SPEAKER_04 (12:39):
some way, because honestly, Heat...
so much of heat is actuallyduring the day.
So much of this movie is atnight.
Yeah.
And obviously it's same withcollateral.
So in a lot of ways, this filmto me also shares a lot of like
DNA with collateral.

SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Collateral, um, takes place over a single night.
Correct.
So you never, yeah, there it'sthis one.
There's no reason for so much ofit, except that like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (13:04):
And also that is a, um, That is a major difference
is that like obviouslycollateral has a very clear
timeline.

SPEAKER_03 (13:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (13:12):
This one I will say sometimes I was like, how much
time has passed?
Like I couldn't really get asense of from start to finish
how much time had gone by.

SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
From like the beginning of the movie, which is
a very interesting thing.
beginning of just him likecracking a safe which they
bought like a real safe and hadhim use the real equipment to
really do that for that introi'm sure they

SPEAKER_04 (13:34):
did yeah

SPEAKER_02 (13:35):
yeah um from that to the end it could be a year it
could be three days i don't know

SPEAKER_04 (13:42):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
probably in three days

SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
So the DP on this, Donald E.
Thorin.
This was his first credit.
I mean, not to say he hadn'tworked in other capacities, but
this is his first DP credit.

SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
We're definitely going to cover him.
And we already have, in fact.
We have.

SPEAKER_04 (13:58):
Yeah.
Not the first time.
Although it's been a minute.
Not the first time that we havebrought him up.
He did pass.
He passed in 2016.
But a lot of big time names forthis guy.
And...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(14:35):
Do you think I'm saying thatright?

SPEAKER_02 (14:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (14:37):
Okay.
I have...

SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
Wasn't that a dwarf from The Hobbit, Thorin?
You

SPEAKER_04 (14:43):
would

SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
know

SPEAKER_04 (14:44):
way better than me.

SPEAKER_02 (14:45):
I think maybe.

SPEAKER_04 (14:46):
There are definitely other opportunities for us to
bring him up.
He shot An Officer and aGentleman.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I would...
Well, okay, that probablywouldn't be the next movie I
would suggest, but it would be amovie I think at some point I'd
like to do.

SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:03):
Against All Odds.
Purple Rain is probably themovie that I would suggest next.

SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Great songs for both of those, for Against All Odds
and Purple Rain.
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:13):
Very much so.
So the one that you alluded tothat we've already done...
You gonna say it?

SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Oh, The Golden Child.
There you go! The Golden Child!But, you know, there's a movie
that could actually do with aremake, although...
I don't, you'd get like thebenefit of the VFX.

SPEAKER_04 (15:32):
With the story and the cultural elements.

SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yes, you would.
You would, for sure.
But I think what you'd gain inVFX, you'd lose by not having
Murphy like in that time.
I

SPEAKER_04 (15:44):
mean, look, I, how many, is it just Beverly Hills
Cop that he's done like decadeslater, sequel of any

SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
of his other-

SPEAKER_04 (15:56):
Oh, that's true, too.
Yeah.
Okay, so he's done a couple.
Okay, so not the biggest fan ofcoming to, numeral two, America,
but I did really like Axel F.

SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
That was good, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:07):
So I would not be opposed to them doing a sequel
to The Golden Child.

SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
The Goldener Child.
The Goldener Child.

SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
He shot Rebecca Thorne, Troop Beverly Hills,
Tango and Cash, Scent of aWoman, now we're in the 90s,
Boys on the Side, Ace Ventura,When Nature Calls, The First
Wives Club, Shaft, and his finalcredit was the film Head of
State.
Okay.
So this film, so many reallyinteresting stylistic choices.

(16:36):
The cinematography was one.
I think that's an excellentpoint that you made.
It's very noir-ish.
The music.

SPEAKER_02 (16:43):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (16:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:44):
Not the first time that we have brought this group
up either.
Tangerine Dream.

SPEAKER_02 (16:50):
Yeah, it was very synth heavy, which is their
thing.
Yep.
But yeah, I mean, it workedpretty well for like the tone
that they were setting for themost part.
There were times where it kindof like came in pretty heavy and
you're like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_04 (17:09):
No, it did.
I mean, there were times whereit was a little extra.
Yeah.
What it reminded me of, so sorryfor the repetition here, but I
do really love the movie Heat.
And even though I kind of hatethe moment, because I absolutely
loved De Niro's character.
I didn't want him to die.
I was really rooting for him.

(17:31):
But that end scene where he'sbeen shot by Pacino.

SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Oh, they're at the airport.
He's in the runway.
And it's Moby.
Oh, yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (17:40):
yeah.
In that final moment, it's likeGod rippling over the water or
something is the name of thesong.
I love that song.
And this very much felt to melike Tangerine Dream walked so
Moby could run.
It was kind of like it's clearthat man has a certain style of

(18:00):
music that he wants for hisfilms and some films.

UNKNOWN (18:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:05):
And yeah, I do think it worked really well for this
film.
It

SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
was kind of ahead of its time.
I mean, this came out in 81.
I feel like it very much haslike a 70s vibe to it.
Like at the time they weremaking it.
I don't know how longproduction.

SPEAKER_04 (18:20):
Kind of looks 70s.

SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
It looks like it, right?
Yeah.
So I thought it was reallyeffective.

SPEAKER_04 (18:27):
Yeah.
No, it worked really well.
And there likely are going to beother people Times where we can
bring them up.
So they're like a duo, Ibelieve, Tangerine Dream.
Maybe at some point we'll doRisky Business.
They composed for that film.

SPEAKER_02 (18:46):
I know you don't.
No, it's not.

SPEAKER_04 (18:48):
I'm not a fan of that film.

SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
And I don't know if I've ever seen it from start to
finish.
I am aware of it, but yeah.
My biggest regret is that we'reunable to uh, cover because it
was 1997, 1977, the Roy Scheidermovie sorcerer that they did the
score for.

SPEAKER_04 (19:11):
No,

SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
I, it is, it is an amazing film about these
various, like basically, uh, excons thieves who are contracted
in a South American country totake these huge work trucks.
I think the, the, like the brandis sorcerer.
That's why it has that namethat, uh, are full of TNT to try

(19:35):
to stop an oil fire, like an oildirect that has blown up.
They're trying to just like blowthe fire out.
And so they're all coming fromdifferent areas.
It is an amazing movie.

SPEAKER_04 (19:45):
I know you really like

SPEAKER_02 (19:46):
it.
It's so good.
You really like it.
There's a scene where they'relike crossing over this bridge
over a river.
Holy shit.
Anyways.
You've

SPEAKER_04 (19:52):
shown it to me.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:54):
Back to Thief.

SPEAKER_04 (19:55):
And Handring Dream.
Yes.
So yes, they composed RiskyBusiness.

UNKNOWN (20:00):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (20:00):
I wouldn't mind doing Firestarter at some point.

SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
Oh, that would be so bad.
Yeah, we

SPEAKER_04 (20:08):
should.
I mean, okay, it's not like oneof the stronger.
That's Stephen King too, right?
It

SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:15):
And Drew Barrymore is the lead, right?

SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Yeah, he really had a thing going where he's like,
I'm going to write about teenand preteen girls with the power
to destroy everything.

UNKNOWN (20:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
And that's great.
And George C.
Scott, right?

SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
George C.
Scott was like the evil, yeah.
I'll watch

SPEAKER_04 (20:34):
anything with him.
And doesn't he have like alittle, like, he has like a
little tail, like his hair.
Isn't his hair pulled back inlike a ponytail?

SPEAKER_02 (20:40):
Yes, it is.
He does.
The origin of the man bun,Firestarter.
George C.
Scott.

SPEAKER_04 (20:46):
So they could post on that.
They did Vision Quest, whichagain, very much an option in
the future.
So the one that we've done,Legend.

SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
Yeah, that...
Might make as much sense asanything for this ethereal,
dreamlike...

SPEAKER_04 (21:00):
Yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 (21:01):
...music, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:03):
Potentially, even this year, maybe they'll come up
again sooner than I thoughtbecause I really want to do Near
Dark for our Halloween series,which is not coming up too far
away.
It's not.
We only have a couple morebefore we get there.

SPEAKER_03 (21:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:18):
And then this is so interesting because there was a
1989 film, which I did not...
even think about this when ibrought up the other version
just a couple minutes agothere's another film called
catch me if you can

SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
what

SPEAKER_04 (21:31):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
what's it about is about the same thing

SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
i don't think so but they composed on it so

SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
no it seems a little bit different because the one
that we know with leonardodicaprio and tom hanks was about
like identity theft and checkfraud or something check fraud
more than anything

SPEAKER_03 (21:45):
else

SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
this uh 1989 one is about a hot shot car racer
persuading the class presidentof a small minnesota high school
to gamble on illegal car racesto raise money for their school
facing closure.

SPEAKER_04 (21:58):
They don't want their school to close.

SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Catch me if you can.

SPEAKER_04 (22:02):
Frank Abernathy.
That's the name of the guy fromthe other Catch Me If You Can.
I knew his first name was

SPEAKER_02 (22:08):
Frank.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
Anyway, film editing.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (22:13):
what do we got?
What's his name?

SPEAKER_04 (22:14):
Not to be rude to somebody who's still with us.
He's 93 years old.

SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
But Dove Honing.

SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:24):
could have tightened up this film a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (22:28):
It's true.
It's very

SPEAKER_04 (22:29):
true.
That is probably my biggestknock on the film.

SPEAKER_02 (22:32):
Particularly as you get into the second half of the
movie.

SPEAKER_04 (22:37):
Correct.

SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
There were some scenes that just dragged on.
I don't know if it was anattempt to build suspense or
just really hone in on aspecific tone or atmosphere,
but...
Maybe like there should be abalance because I know like
movies now, like everything'slike fucking shifting around

(22:59):
every like three seconds.
Like you never know, never likejust holds on a moment or a shot

SPEAKER_04 (23:04):
is a little bit indicative of that time in film.
Yeah.
Film history.

SPEAKER_02 (23:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:08):
But and what's funny.
So I'll go through his credits.
He kind of perfected upon maybewhat I would see is like
opportunity to improve in thisfilm because you're absolutely
right.
Like even like, look, I canunderstand to some degree that.
When they're doing the bigheist, the biggie, where they
had to get through like, I don'tknow, five levels of hell or

(23:29):
whatever it was to-

SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
They had five alarms.

SPEAKER_04 (23:31):
There you go.
Five alarms.

SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
Five different alarm systems that they had to
neutralize.

SPEAKER_04 (23:38):
Correct.

SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
And they kind of showed us every single step.

SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Oh my God.
Okay.
So like, yeah, one of them- Hewas checking wires to determine
if it was a wire for the alarmor the phone.
That is a phone.
I'm getting 40.
That's a phone.
And then Belushi, like, okay,let's watch him literally peel
apart to get the next wire.

(24:04):
Okay, he checks it.
Phone.
After the third one, I'm like,oh, my God.

SPEAKER_04 (24:14):
But even more egregiously, like you said at
the end, I do think it's whatyou think it is.
I think it is meant to buildtension.
But when he is in Leo's house.

SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:24):
And he's just like trying to clear the house to try
to nail down where he is.

SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
That's a long ass sequence.

SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
Leo's fucking hiding behind like something the whole
goddamn time.
He's not even moving.
And then there's like just somerandom lady having dinner or
having cereal.
Yeah, that was so creepy.
And he just looks at her.
She looks at him.
Let's just all move on.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:51):
Back to watching television.
Uh, okay.
But anyway, back to honing.
So a lot of, uh, well, you knowwhat?
Probably the next one that wewill do.
So he cut young doctors in love,but my, my guess is that we'll
probably cover him again withManhunter.

SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Probably.
Um,

SPEAKER_04 (25:08):
and you'll see that he has a, he Manhunter included
a couple other credits withMichael Mann, uh, This is
another film I'm not a huge fanof, Overboard, so I don't know
when we're going to do it.

SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
Oh, yeah, we don't have to.

SPEAKER_04 (25:22):
Maybe.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (25:23):
I mean, if it's not a favorite for either one of us,
which one of us is going toconvince the other one?

SPEAKER_04 (25:28):
It's so biased or subjective, I should say,
because, look, this movieincluded, every single film we
cover...
Almost with that exception, ithas problematic elements to it.

SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
We didn't know what we were getting ourselves into
with this one, but there are acouple of scenes in particular
we were both like,

SPEAKER_04 (25:46):
whoa! Yeah, yeah.
There's some...
I mean, we could just saythere's like several instances
throughout the film of veryvile, slurred language.
It's very racist.
Very racist.

SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
Yeah.
And...
So am I supposed to be supershocked when criminals in late
70s, early 80s Chicago aresaying racist things?
No, I guess I should not be.
Right,

SPEAKER_04 (26:14):
right.
To our 2025 ears, it was alittle jarring to just hear
that, but

SPEAKER_02 (26:24):
you're right.
I mean, I think we all know withwhat's going on currently that
there are for sure people sayingthat same shit shit right now

SPEAKER_04 (26:32):
yeah no it's it's really disheartening that that
is still a current day thing butum but then you get like other
like when he's having when theywere having that conversation
like the clip you pulled for thebeginning of the film part of
that conversation where he'slike trying to convince her to
be with him She says to him, Ican't have kids.

(26:52):
Without missing a beat, he justgoes, okay, we'll adopt, which
is incredibly progressive forthat time.

SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Yes.
Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_04 (27:01):
You would maybe, maybe expect, although it does
sound like he grew up in thesystem, so that's probably why
he was so open to adoptionbecause when he has his outburst
at the adoption agency.

SPEAKER_02 (27:15):
He came up through that system.

SPEAKER_04 (27:16):
Yes.
So that kind of is the reasonwhy I think he's so open to it.
But like a lot of men of thatera...

SPEAKER_02 (27:24):
I mean, he grew up in that system and look how well
he turned out.

SPEAKER_04 (27:27):
Right.
Yeah.
I think it's kind of a weirdcommentary on that.
But a lot of men, if a womantold them, I can't have
biological children, they'd belike, see ya.
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
Swipe right.

SPEAKER_04 (27:38):
So...
Okay.
Let's finish up with Honing.
So he also cut...
She's out of control.
He cut The Last of the Mohicans.
He...
Well, he's retired, I'm going tosay.
I think that at 93 years old,he's probably not cutting

(28:00):
anything else.
So that's why I feel confidentsaying his only Oscar nomination
was Best Film Editing for TheFugitive.

SPEAKER_02 (28:08):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (28:09):
Yeah.
Wow.
So he did that.
He did The Crow.

SPEAKER_02 (28:12):
That first movie was really cool.
And then they did like a remakewithin the last year or so.
And it was really bad.

SPEAKER_04 (28:18):
Yes, I didn't want...
Did you watch it?
The

SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
new one?
No.
Yeah.
Okay.
I've seen enough to get like howdifferent it is.
And to be fair, like the 90sversion, it wasn't like it was a
shot for shot version of thegraphic novel, but I feel like
it was a lot more...

SPEAKER_04 (28:37):
Probably a tough editing gig.

SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Yeah.
Oh, with.
Yeah.
With Brandon.
Yeah.
Brandon Lee passing away.
Yeah.
The filming.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (28:46):
Yep.
So here's what I was alluding toearlier, because Honing cut this
film.
He also cut Heat.

SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
So.
Are you really going to ignorethe one in between those two?
The Oscar worthy Street Fightermovie?

SPEAKER_04 (29:00):
I did

SPEAKER_02 (29:01):
not even list it.

SPEAKER_04 (29:02):
Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 (29:04):
That movie was so bad.
It wasn't his fault.

SPEAKER_04 (29:07):
I'm actually kind of shocked.
Well, look, I think that's acommon thread with a lot of
people who think Keat wasoverlooked at the Oscars in a
lot of categories.
I would say editing is one ofthem because I do think that
that's a really well-cut film.
I don't think there's anywasted...

SPEAKER_02 (29:26):
No, no, it's a really good film.
I would have expected it to beat least nominated for Best
Picture.
I would have expected it wouldhave won for Best Sound.

SPEAKER_04 (29:37):
Maybe it did.
And to be fair, it's not...
I'm thinking about a lot of theperformances.

SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (29:43):
But I am surprised that it wasn't nominated at
least for editing.
He also cut Dark City.
And then, like I said...
I feel pretty confident thathe's probably retired at this
point.
So his last credit wascollateral damage.

SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
If you're 93, probably the only way that
you're really like still workingis if you're in front of the
camera.

SPEAKER_04 (30:05):
Maybe like he's doing a Mel Brooks.
Okay.
So we're at the stars of thefilm.

SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (30:12):
I mentioned this because I guess we didn't maybe
say this explicitly.
Neither of us had ever seen thisfilm.

SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
It's true.

SPEAKER_04 (30:22):
Yeah.
So this is a brand new movie toboth of us.
And part of the reason why I wasreally excited to watch it,
obviously love Michael Mann.
I

SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
didn't know it was one of his movies.
I knew of the movie and I knewthat James Caan was in it, but I
didn't realize that I was goingto be watching a Heat prequel.

SPEAKER_04 (30:39):
Yeah.
And as far as like James Caan isconcerned.
So I'm sure people think of himin three instances.
Probably the first is TheGodfather as Sonny.
the eldest Corleone son, that isprobably the first way I think
about him.
Probably the second way I thinkabout him is Will Ferrell's dad,

(31:00):
an elf.

SPEAKER_02 (31:01):
I apologize, but you got to flip those for me.

SPEAKER_04 (31:03):
Oh, you think of elf first?

SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Only because at this point, I've seen it probably
more than even The Godfather.
Like we see it every...
So yeah, I do.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (31:13):
But I think of The Godfather first, elf second.
And then although this is notreally a film that's like on my
radar a lot.
Probably a lot of people thinkof him thirdly from Misery.

SPEAKER_02 (31:22):
Oh, yes.
Yeah, I try to not think aboutthat.

SPEAKER_04 (31:26):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
It was a really good adaptation, a really good book,
but I can't.
No, I get it.

SPEAKER_04 (31:36):
I get it.
And that's why I was veryexcited to watch him in
something else.

SPEAKER_03 (31:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (31:40):
Because I just don't...
I don't know a lot about hisfilmography outside of those
three instances.
And I just...
You know, and it's– look, it'stotally fine.
It's totally fine that there arecertain actors out there that
just kind of inhabit a certainkind of energy.
And I feel like he's one ofthose guys.
Because even in Elf, he's this,like, curmudgeonly kind of

(32:01):
hot-headed dude.
Yeah.
And he is– basically Sonny fromThe Godfather in a lot of ways.
At one point, he's even calledSonny.

SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Yes, that was amazing.
As like a young man.
Listen, Sonny.

SPEAKER_04 (32:15):
Yeah, not actually Sonny, although that'd be
hilarious if they just likeaccidentally called him a
different character name andthey just kept it in.
But he is really good in this.
I do think he does a great jobof carrying the film.
I mean, he's in, I think, almostevery single scene.
Right.
Yeah.

(32:37):
So, yeah, he's great in this.
He is Frank.
He passed away not too long ago.
He passed in 2022.
And let's go through hisfilmography.
So he started off with a lot ofTV work when he was younger, a
lot of like one offs, two offs,that kind of thing.
So he's in the film El Dorado.
But then here we go.
Early 70s.

(32:58):
He instantly gets fame and anOscar nomination.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fair for The Godfather Part Twobecause he does die in the first

(33:18):
movie.
But

SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (33:21):
That end scene where Michael is like thinking back
like so at this point

SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
when they're at the table, dinner table or
something.

SPEAKER_04 (33:29):
Yeah.
So it's the closing scene.
And Michael is like kind ofreminiscing because he just
killed his other brother, Fredo.
And he's thinking aboutbasically like before everything
happened.
Hmm.
Yeah.

(34:00):
I doubt maybe it looks reallyseamless in terms of the way
that they set up that shot.
So I don't know if they filmedthat in conjunction with the
first film, knowing that therewas going to be a second film.

SPEAKER_02 (34:11):
Possibly.
I don't

SPEAKER_04 (34:11):
know.
But so he's part of thatfranchise.
He did Rollerball, Alien Nation,Dick Tracy.
We mentioned it earlier.
Misery, Honeymoon in Vegas.
He's in Bottle Rocket.
I don't.
It's been a million years sinceI've seen that movie.
So I don't remember.
He's probably Owen Wilson's dad.

(34:32):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
Mr.
Henry.
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (34:35):
he's in Eraser, Mickey Blue Eyes, The Way of the
Gun.
What

SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
do you think the one-liner was in Eraser?
Because that's a Schwarzeneggermovie.
You've been

SPEAKER_04 (34:46):
erased.

SPEAKER_02 (34:47):
That's it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Correct.

UNKNOWN (34:51):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (34:52):
He was an elf.
He did voice work.
He was in the kids movie, Cloudywith a Chance of Meatballs.

SPEAKER_02 (34:58):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (34:59):
And the sequel.
And then they have, I think,straight-to-video type stuff
that he also participated in.
And then, not his final credit,but I do love that he was in the
film Sicilian Vampire.
Oh.
I just love that.
And, yeah, I mean, what did youthink about his performance in
this film?

SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
Yeah, it did remind me a lot of the Sonny character.

SPEAKER_04 (35:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:25):
And...
It was it was interestingbecause on one hand, he's like
this professional, right, thisprofessional safecracker thief.
But he acted and there was neverany like drugs or drinking or
anything that they showed.
So he was just like legitimatelya hothead who went out of his
way to antagonize in situationsthat seemed kind of in contrast

(35:49):
to.
to him being this consummateprofessional.
It's like, how have you been sosuccessful for this long?
Because you kind of seem like anasshole.

SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
It's funny because that is a major difference.
Okay, so going back to Heat.
To me, he is his own version ofthe Robert De Niro character
because he is so straight-lacedin a lot of ways with no
drinking, no drugs, none ofthat.
But yes, the major difference isthat until he doesn't, Robert De

(36:20):
Niro keeps his cool the entiretime.
And throughout this entiremovie, James Caan, it's not that
he always is like, I mean, look,like I mentioned, he has like a
major outburst at the adoptionagency.
He can't hold on to his anger.
But a lot of the times it's justhim being just abrasive.

(36:40):
Yeah.
Or like, you know, and like I amnot on the

SPEAKER_02 (36:43):
cops.
When he pulled Jesse?

SPEAKER_04 (36:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (36:47):
Out of that club?
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (36:48):
yes.

SPEAKER_02 (36:49):
Yes.
And that was like a straight upkidnapping.
Yeah.
Some guy in the bar is liketrying to intervene because he
just sees this crazy guy come inand start yelling with this
woman who's saying like shedoesn't want to leave with them.
Yeah.
And he just fucking pulls out agun.
Yeah.
On the guy.
And and then like hit somebodyelse when he like throws her in
the car because he puts her inthe car and then she gets out.

(37:11):
Yeah.
So he like grabs her and like.
that, yeah, that was, there wassome, some wacky stuff going on
there.

SPEAKER_04 (37:19):
No, for sure.
No, that's a great instance.
So I'm not, I'm not thischaracter's fan per se, but, um,
part of it is like when, likefor instance, when the cops pull
him over and they're basicallylike, we get a cut, you know?
And he's like, I don't know whatyou're like.
Like he just, um,

SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
I want a car business.

SPEAKER_04 (37:37):
He, yeah, he, except with Jesse and, um, Honestly,
even more so, what was his name?
Barry, Jim Belushi's character.
He has no allegiance to anybody.
And so he's just like basically-

SPEAKER_02 (37:54):
Willie Nelson.

SPEAKER_04 (37:55):
Oh, that's true.
I'm sorry, Okta.
Or- Okla.
Okla.
Sorry, I'm thinking the securitysystem for work.
So he's just like- very likefuck you to everybody else.
And I mean, he, that is part of

SPEAKER_02 (38:15):
that.
There were some times where I'mlike, I bet you can take

SPEAKER_04 (38:17):
it down a notch.

SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
I bet this all would have like been a lot smoother if
you just like that.

SPEAKER_04 (38:21):
I'm not saying give the cops a handout, but like he,
he has no chill about anything.
Yeah.
And to be fair, He knows thatabout himself because he tells
Jesse the whole story aboutwhile he was in prison, you have
to, you know, according to him,get to a point where you don't
care about anything.

(38:42):
You don't even care aboutyourself.

SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Well, even the Leo character references that
towards the end of the moviewhen he lays it out, when he
basically has told him like.
And that's why Leo set him upwith finding a kid and all this
stuff.
He did that just to-

SPEAKER_04 (38:58):
Ensnare him.

SPEAKER_02 (39:00):
Yeah, ensnare him so that now he did have something
that he didn't care aboutbecause he knew that he was one
of those guys that doesn't careabout anything.

SPEAKER_04 (39:07):
And that, again, is such an interesting parallel to
Heat because throughout thewhole fucking movie, De Niro is
saying, you have to be able tolike, I'm not going to say it as
eloquently as he does.
But you have to be able to dropeverything in 30 seconds when
you see that heat coming aroundthe corner.
And obviously he's talking aboutthe cops, not talking about the
mob.
But it's all the same.

(39:28):
And so that's another, I think,super interesting parallel to
that film.
And they do kind of respond inequal ways.
I think in my own storyheadcanon that he does
eventually find Jesse.

SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 (39:47):
Maybe.
is my thought.
And also, that was so funny tome because it was like, who do
you know that you could callthem in the middle of the night
and tell them, to drop whatthey're doing, which is probably
sleeping at that moment, butthen come over and then for
months at a time, go with hiswife and child to some unknown

(40:09):
destination and take care.
Like, who do you know that wouldbe so loyal to you that

SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
would do that?
They were getting like 30 granda month.

SPEAKER_04 (40:15):
True.

SPEAKER_02 (40:16):
40 grand the next month.

SPEAKER_04 (40:17):
How bizarre to have someone like that that you can
call to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
I mean, if someone called us right now and said
like, okay, you got to dropeverything.
You're going to get 30 grand thefirst.
I'm like, I'm listening.
I'm

SPEAKER_04 (40:31):
not listening.
Anyway, so yes, it was just hewas a really interesting
character.
And I can't appreciate that theyhad qualities about him that I
liked in others.
Like he's a complicatedcharacter.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (40:51):
Just talking about Frank.

SPEAKER_04 (40:52):
Just talking about Frank.
Okay, so moving on to Jessie,who is Frank's love interest.
You mentioned her at theopening, Tuesday Weld.
Tuesday's a nickname.
Real name is Susan.

SPEAKER_02 (41:04):
Susan Kerweld.

SPEAKER_04 (41:05):
Yes.
And this is really the firsttime I've seen her in anything.
I think I've heard the name,really didn't know much about
her, but I thought she didreally good.
Hmm.
Do you not agree?

SPEAKER_02 (41:23):
Well, she is one of at least two people that I have
seen in this movie and anothermovie.
She is Robert Duvall's wife inFalling Down.

SPEAKER_04 (41:32):
Okay, I didn't know that.
I mean, I had that creditlisted, but I didn't know who
she played.

SPEAKER_02 (41:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (41:37):
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, I was kind of justa little bit looking into her
background and...
She was a child performer.
Sounds like she was probably thebreadwinner for her family.
Did not have the best upbringingin terms of like she was just

(41:58):
treated as an adult from a veryyoung age.
And also for like her earlycareer had a certain kind of
like appeal.
So she played a ton of like sexkitten type roles.
roles.

SPEAKER_02 (42:11):
In

SPEAKER_04 (42:11):
fact, she was in a film called Sex Kittens Go to
College.

SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
Yipes.

SPEAKER_04 (42:16):
Yeah.
So that was like how she waslooked at in the industry for a
while.
Let me go through some of hercredits.
I had to just put this one downbecause I think this was, I
don't know, in a way ofspeaking, her breakout role.
She was in a film called RallyRound the Flag Boys.
The only reason why I call outthat film is because she has one

(42:36):
of the more interesting...
Her character in that film isComfort Goodpasture.

SPEAKER_02 (42:43):
That's like a Bond character's name or something.

SPEAKER_04 (42:49):
Yes, it is.
So she was in that.
The Private Lives of Adam andEve, which I thought was a very
interesting title.
Already mentioned, Sex KittensGo to College.
She was on a TV series calledThe Many Loves of, I think it's
Dobie Gillis.

SPEAKER_02 (43:05):
Wait, what?
Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.
Interesting.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (43:09):
Do you know that?

SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
Well, I know the Dobie Gillis character.
I didn't know that there was aMany Loves of Dobie Gillis.

SPEAKER_04 (43:14):
How do you know that character?

SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
Because as a kid growing up, there were like five
channels.
And so there'd be reruns of it.
Oh, got

SPEAKER_04 (43:21):
it.

SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Okay.
So I remember like the DobieGillis show is just like a
sitcom.

SPEAKER_04 (43:25):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (43:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (43:26):
She was in the film The Cincinnati Kid.
She also, I mean, she's stillwith us, but I think she's...
Also retired at this point.
So her only Oscar nominationbest supporting actress for
Looking for Mr.
Goodbar.
She was in Once Upon a Time inAmerica, which technically
speaking, we could do at somepoint in the future.
To your point, she's in FallingDown, Feeling Minnesota, and

(43:50):
then her last...
She did do also like a ton of TVwork throughout her career, but
her last film credit, IntimateAffairs.

SPEAKER_02 (43:57):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (43:58):
And yeah, I...
You know, what's funny is, like,again, I'm sorry, but she, as
the romantic interest, also, tome, has a lot of similarities
to, is it Amy Brennan?
Robert De Niro's love interestin Heat?
I think so,

SPEAKER_02 (44:14):
yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:15):
I mean, in this film, they seem more aligned as,
like, they're a couple, they getmarried...
Although through

SPEAKER_02 (44:22):
he's been in that kind of life before.
Yes.
With like drugs.
Yeah.
Drug dealer.
Basically, it sounded like.
But that's

SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
hence her speech.
Yeah.
At the beginning.
Yeah.
This where she's like, no, Ilike my boring life.
Like, I don't want to be in thisanymore.
But they do.
He talks her into it.
And

SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
which is weird because that's what he wanted to
get to also.
Yeah.
So I don't know what he wastrying.
Like, it's.
Yeah.
It was weird that he could havejust said, like, yeah, that's
what my goal is.
That's what I want, and so I'm

SPEAKER_04 (44:58):
out right now.
It's interesting because, again,another parallel with Heat.
It's like De Niro– I mean, DeNiro– wanted to do that last
score, but I don't think heneeded to.
It seemed like he was very smartabout his money.
I

SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
think if you were really smart about all this, you
would tell everyone that youwant to do two last scores and
then you get the one done andyou're like, no, I'm actually
out.

SPEAKER_04 (45:25):
Yeah, that is very smart.

SPEAKER_02 (45:26):
So just if you're a criminal, any criminals listen
to this.
Just don't do that last score.
Just

SPEAKER_04 (45:32):
don't tell anybody that you're not going to do the
last score.

SPEAKER_02 (45:34):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (45:34):
yeah.
Yeah, and same thing in thisfilm where...
You know, it seems like he'sextremely smart with his money.
He says, I put my money in thebank.

SPEAKER_02 (45:45):
He's got all these businesses.
He owns the bar.
He owns a car lot.

SPEAKER_04 (45:51):
Yes.
So it's like, why did youeven...
okay, so you have a house andyou have a wife and you have a
kid, it sounds like you'realready set up pretty well.
Like you didn't have to do thatlast score.
And honestly,

SPEAKER_02 (46:04):
I'm- You could have definitely lived off of like the
legitimate

SPEAKER_04 (46:07):
businesses.
Yes, 100%.
And that's why I'm curious if,you know, when he has that first
meeting with Leo and Leo'stelling him like, here's how I
do things.
And he's like, well, I don'tknow.
I'll get back to you.
What would have happened if hejust said, no, I'm, or not even
called, you know, if he just-Decided I don't I don't want to
do this anymore.

(46:27):
I have too much to lose.
So I guess we wouldn't have amovie.
But in any case, yeah, she tome.
In some ways, share somequalities with that other
character, and he just with kindof being dragged along, although
she does have more understandingof what this life is like.

SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
She did, which is why, like, I didn't I feel like
her character should haveunderstood what was happening at
the end.

SPEAKER_03 (46:54):
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (46:55):
Because she had been part of that, I feel like she
should have had kind of almostan instant understanding of
like, oh, this is what'shappening.

SPEAKER_04 (47:03):
And honestly, they should have probably talked
about it.

SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (47:05):
Like, they should have had like the Val Kilmer,
Ashley Judd thing.
Yeah.
Like, they even had acontingency plan.
Yeah.
Like, talk about having all yourcontingencies in order.
Like, they at some point talkedabout the fact that if he,
like...
What was that conversation?
What would that be like?
We're like, okay, so if I getpinched or like if I am in a

(47:28):
situation where you are beingheld up in a room with cops and
they're waiting for me to showand you see me and you're trying
to tell me that the cops arethere, you slide your hand
across a bar.
Like, I mean, so specific.

UNKNOWN (47:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (47:43):
Anyway,

SPEAKER_02 (47:43):
I mean, it is smart because maybe you can't hear,
but maybe you have like someline of sight.
So there's like,

SPEAKER_04 (47:49):
but it's like that it had to, it would only have
worked in that very specificscenario where she's on a
balcony and she slides her handacross the

SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
bar.
We're all doing it now.
We're doing it as we're speakingto the mic.
What other

SPEAKER_04 (48:03):
instances would that work where nobody would even
catch that?
Like if they were like in afield somewhere and she just
went like that with her hand,they'd all be like, what are you
doing?

SPEAKER_02 (48:12):
Well, I don't know how much time she spends in the
field.

SPEAKER_04 (48:16):
Anyway, that's Tuesday Weld.
Okay, moving on to WillieNelson.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
such an interesting cast, casting decision.
I mean- He was fine.
It was, it was like, I don't,yeah, I almost don't know how to
articulate my thoughts on himbeing like this.
Cause I think of Willie Nelsonis just like super into weed and

(48:48):
music.

SPEAKER_04 (48:50):
Sure.
I think that's accurate.
And he's still very much withus.
He's 92 years old.

SPEAKER_02 (48:56):
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (48:56):
Yeah.
I think he's still even touring.
Isn't he touring right now withBob Dylan

SPEAKER_02 (49:01):
and stuff?
He might be,

SPEAKER_04 (49:03):
yeah.
So...
I'm going to have to give alittle disclaimer.
He does have 139 acting credits.
However...

SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
Music videos?

SPEAKER_04 (49:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (49:12):
There you go.

SPEAKER_04 (49:12):
Over 80 of them are music videos.
But he has done other things.
A lot of the other music videoacting credits are also just
himself in projects.
So even when you take out the 80music videos, there's a lot
where he's just kind of, youknow, a caricature of himself.
And then there are roles likethis where he's actually...

(49:36):
I mean, yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (49:38):
if I haven't seen him, I don't think I've seen him
in like like a serious, moreserious role like this.
If it was someone who wasn'tWillie Nelson, I probably
wouldn't even thought twiceabout the performance of that
character.
So maybe that means it was apretty good performance.

SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
You I do think people are critiqued much more
harshly.

SPEAKER_02 (50:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:01):
When they cross over from like music to this.
Yeah.
I thought his I mean, he hasactually very little screen
time.
He's basically in two scenes.
And in one of them, he is likemoments away from death.

SPEAKER_02 (50:14):
They're intense, though, because he's like in
jail.
He reaches out to Frank fromprison and is telling him that
he's not going to live longenough to reach the end of his
prison sentence.
And he doesn't want to die inprison.

SPEAKER_04 (50:26):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
that's kind of heavy.

SPEAKER_04 (50:27):
Very.
I mean, Frank.
So so to give some context,because people there might be
people who don't You shouldwatch the movie before you
listen to this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 (50:37):
Don't depend on this podcast to fully understand the
movie.
Come on.

SPEAKER_04 (50:40):
But basically, Okla is Frank's mentor.

SPEAKER_02 (50:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:44):
And he taught him, like he said, everything he
knows.
And so he is in prison and Frankgets a letter and he can tell
that.
Like, something's up.
And so he goes to visit him.
I thought that interaction wasso fascinating.
There is an intensity that Ithink Willie Nelson has where,

(51:04):
honestly, there's nothingbesides me just having this
initial reaction.
It almost felt like there wasmore intimacy between them than
I thought that scene was goingto have.
Like, they're so close to the,like...
The partition between them andWillie Nelson is just his eyes
are glued on him.

SPEAKER_03 (51:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (51:22):
The entire time.
And he has kind of this likelittle smile on his face the
whole time.
Like you can tell he's veryhappy to see him.
And there is a like it's likekind of almost I think even more
so than any time he's withJesse.
He smiles.
He laughs.
Frank.
You know, like he and he haslike shows a little bit of

(51:42):
softness to him.
And that's kind of the onlyscene I see that in.
So there was a reallyinteresting dynamic between the
two of

SPEAKER_03 (51:49):
them.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (51:50):
And and yeah, to your point, he reveals that
like.
He has he has a heart conditionand he's probably not going to
make it the 10 months.

SPEAKER_02 (51:59):
I don't know what the.
I can't remember exactly what itwas, but all I know is that when
he got out of prison and hadcollapsed.

SPEAKER_04 (52:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:08):
And then was in the hospital with like a bowl with
like blood everywhere.
That

SPEAKER_04 (52:15):
didn't exactly resonate for me.
Yeah.
I was like, I don't think thatthat's hot.
Anyway, I don't know.
But yeah.
So Frank, and you know that Ilove when you see that, when you
see, and again, shares a ton ofsimilarity with Heat where these
guys who have trust in eachother and it's very, well, the

(52:35):
next person we're going to talkabout is Barry, right?
They really go to bat for eachother.
And Frank pulls through.
I mean, it's unfortunate becausehe is out for, I don't know, it
seems like mere moments beforehe collapses.
But Frank does it.
And it's a really kind ofinteresting scene when they're

(52:57):
in the courtroom and the lawyerand the judge are talking
about...
I don't know if it's like adismissal.
I don't know what it is.
Early release,

SPEAKER_02 (53:07):
I guess.
Yeah, it was for an earlyrelease.
And they were doing this thingwhere the judge would rest his
head in his hands with a certainnumber of fingers, kind of.
The

SPEAKER_04 (53:15):
lawyer did it first.

SPEAKER_02 (53:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the judge respondedwith a different number of
fingers, kind of, displayed.
And so...
we realized that was themnegotiating the bribe that the
judge would give.

SPEAKER_04 (53:29):
I thought that was so genius.
That might be one of my favoritemoments in the entire film.
Because at first we're like,what the fuck are they doing?

SPEAKER_02 (53:37):
It was very obvious that like, what the fuck is this
attorney doing?
And then the judge does it backand we're like, there's
something going on.
I

SPEAKER_04 (53:47):
was like, oh, that's ingenious.
And then, you know, even at theend, so when When Frank is
walking off the lawyer andLaura's like, it's going to be
six grand.
He's like six grand.
Here's 10, you know, and tellshim to go buy himself a nice
suit.
Like he he's does not care abouthow much it costs to get his
friend out.

SPEAKER_02 (54:06):
Like favorite.
My favorite part was theattorney basically saying like,
yeah, I got to pay six grand toEarl Warren over there, which.
Is that the name?
Yeah, it would have been a knockbecause that was a U.S.
Supreme Court justice.

SPEAKER_04 (54:18):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (54:22):
With it being a joke about how much he's not a U.S.
Supreme Court justice because ofhow crooked he is.

SPEAKER_04 (54:29):
Some things never change.

SPEAKER_02 (54:32):
Yes.
I'm trying to say that Iquestion the legitimacy of our
actual U.S.
Supreme Court justices in thismoment.

SPEAKER_04 (54:40):
Okay, moving on to

SPEAKER_02 (54:41):
Barry.

SPEAKER_04 (54:42):
Jim Belushi! This was really fun to see him in
this role.

SPEAKER_02 (54:47):
He was like...
He looked like Elvis in this

SPEAKER_04 (54:52):
movie.
He definitely had the 70s goingon with the sideburns

SPEAKER_02 (54:55):
and the hair.
Oh my god, the big burns.

SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Yeah, the big burns.
And yeah, so he is Frank'sother...
I don't know what you callhim...
Not cohort, but like...

SPEAKER_02 (55:08):
Like his partner.

SPEAKER_04 (55:09):
His partner,

SPEAKER_02 (55:09):
yeah.
His literal partner in crime.

SPEAKER_04 (55:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And he's really good in this.
He's very understated.
He is just as proficient asFrank.
Frank is more senior, so I thinkhe has a little bit more
experience, but he is completelyreliable.
He's not a fuck-up.
He's basically the Val Kilmerto...

(55:33):
Robert De Niro and he andbecause like the other guys well
can't blame the other guys likethe one gets the shit beat out
of him and true and then TomSizemore gets nailed as well

SPEAKER_02 (55:47):
but talking about heat right now yeah just to be
clear

SPEAKER_04 (55:53):
but Barry is like yeah like that that's it seems
like that's kind of therelationship that they have and
I was so sad spoiler alert hedies and

SPEAKER_02 (56:02):
Dramatically.

SPEAKER_04 (56:03):
Dramatically.
And yeah, so it's not a hugerole, but he is like an
important part of the filmbecause, again, he's one of the
very, very few people that Frankhas like an allegiance to and
trusts, to be honest.
Belushi, we have brought him upbefore, but it's been a really

(56:26):
long time.
So, you know, I was saying toyou off mic that I think I
always had a misinformedimpression that he kind of rode
the coattails of his brotherinto the industry, but I don't
think that's true.
Because if you look at hiscredits, he started kind of the

(56:46):
same time as his brother andjust went in a different
direction with his work.
But he started early TV series,Who's Watching the Kids?
I don't think we talked abouthim in Trading Places because I
think it's a small role, but hedoes have a bit.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
About Last Night, which we coulddo at some point, as well as
Jumpin' Jack Flash.

(57:08):
I'm almost positive we did bringhim up for Little Shop of
Horrors.

SPEAKER_02 (57:11):
I think so.

SPEAKER_04 (57:12):
Yeah, I think we did.
He is in The Principal, RedHeat.

SPEAKER_02 (57:17):
That's actually a really interesting movie.
I don't know how I would watchit now.
It's

SPEAKER_04 (57:23):
also Chicago Cops, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_02 (57:25):
Yeah, it was- And Arnold

SPEAKER_04 (57:27):
Schwarzenegger.

SPEAKER_02 (57:27):
Possibly the first Hollywood picture ever filmed on
location in Moscow.
Oh, okay, for parts of it.
Yeah, but- I don't know.
It would be interesting to tryto watch that now.
That was during a period ofsupposed cooperation.

(57:48):
So, you know, a movie will comeout like, oh, we're

SPEAKER_04 (57:51):
all

SPEAKER_02 (57:51):
the same.

UNKNOWN (57:53):
Yay.

SPEAKER_04 (57:54):
He was in, so I have like just a huge chunk of films
for him.
K-9, Mr.
Destiny, Only the Lonely, CurlySue, Canadian Bacon.
He reteams kind of withSchwarzenegger and Jingle All
the Way.
I think he's the Santa Claus

SPEAKER_02 (58:12):
in it?
Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 (58:13):
But more recently in his career, he's done much more
television.
So he has been on a number ofseries, Total Security, Beggars
and Choosers, The big one isaccording to Jim

SPEAKER_02 (58:26):
that that show is like an infection that spreads
across TV and is just on all thetime on like everywhere it was
there was a time where it's likecan I just get away from the
show

SPEAKER_04 (58:38):
I yeah it's been heavy in syndication do yeah but
he was on that the defenders theI don't know if it's not a
reboot but I guess like the longlike decade not decade No, maybe
two decades later.
Twin Peaks?
Oh, yeah.
Yes.

(58:58):
Sorry.
Sometimes I have to work thingsout in my head before I say it
out loud.
So he was on that, but then hewas in a film called The
Chronology of Water.
Okay.
And has just done a ton of TVwork.
Okay, we're getting towards theend of our cast, but we do have

(59:20):
the big baddie, Leo.
Robert Prosky.
He has passed 2008.
And yeah, he he's great in this.

SPEAKER_02 (59:31):
This was his first big movie.
He he was in like entertainment.
He was on a lot of TV, I think,you know, better than me.
But I think this was like hisfirst like.
major motion picture that hewould have been

SPEAKER_04 (59:45):
in.
And I think he kind of startedhis career a little bit later in
life.

SPEAKER_02 (59:48):
He was 50 when he was in this.

SPEAKER_04 (59:50):
Yeah.
I think he was

SPEAKER_02 (59:51):
like...
He looked way older than 50.
He did.
He did.
I

SPEAKER_04 (59:54):
think he was like really early 40s even when he
had his first credit.
So...
But...
He has come up before and hecould come up again in the
future.
So

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:03):
to all those hopeful actors out there, just wait till
you're 50 and then you get yourbig break.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:09):
If you're a guy.
So he was in the film HankyPanky.
The one that we've talked about,I think it was just our last
Halloween series.
Christine.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:21):
Yeah.
This guy, he must have been likea really nice guy because he
plays such a convincing piece ofshit.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:29):
yeah i like to think he's a nice guy

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:31):
yeah because i i don't think he was like
legitimately this evil he was hejust he gave off like in
christine and in this it's likei don't trust this guy he's like
he's just very good at beingcreepy i think he was a good guy
um in last action hero okay

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:49):
i did i do have that one probably the other film that
we can cover with him is thenatural

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:54):
I don't think he's a good guy in that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:55):
Oh, man.
He was an outrageous fortune.
This makes sense.
I think, was he one of thebigger characters?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:05):
What?

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:05):
Hill Street Blues.
He was on that TV show.
Oh, we also covered him.
He is a good guy in broadcastnews.
Yeah, he is.
Yeah, I really like it.
Go check that one out.
That was with Jennifer.
Big Shots, The Great Outdoors.
So we could probably do that atsome point.
Gremlins 2, The New Batch.

(01:01:26):
Far and Away.
Hoffa.
You mentioned it a second ago.
Last Action Hero.
Rudy.
Mrs.
Doubtfire.
The 1994 Miracle on 34th Street.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:39):
How many versions are there of that movie?

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:44):
Well, at least two.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:45):
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:46):
There you go.
I like my Natalie Wood one.
Yeah.
Dead Man Walking, Veronica'sCloset, and then his final
credit was a film called TheSkeptic.
Okay, so finally, TomSignorelli...
He plays a Taglia, which soundsso much like one of the other
mob heads in The Godfather.
I think it– or is it to Taglia?

(01:02:08):
I think–

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:10):
It's to Taglia from The Godfather,

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:12):
yeah.
So he passed in 2010.
He's basically like– he worksunder Leo, and he is the first
contact that Frank makes withthis like group of–

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:27):
Yeah, the professionalism involved in this
illegal stolen diamonds trademakes things slightly
complicated at times because theguy that he gave the diamonds
to-

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:39):
Gags.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:40):
Gags, tragically fell from the 13th floor, I
think, of a building- And sothen it was like an accounting
issue.
Like, hey, we need to reconcilethis accounting issue.
You need to give me my money,basically, is what Frank said
to, not to Taglia, but just aTaglia without the T.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:00):
I appreciate that Frank's like, I don't fucking
care who these people are.
I'm getting my money.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:05):
And they're both like, I don't know what you're
talking about.
I just run a business.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:11):
I just run a business too.
I just run a car business, butyou owe me 185 grand.
I just have this steel thing.
What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:17):
Plating.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:19):
Yeah, plating.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:20):
That's the only thing about that scene.
It's like, okay, so I get whyFrank pulled the gun on him.
I get why Frank pulled the gunon his henchman or whoever came
in to try to save him.
But then he clears the room andhe still is just pointing his
gun at the people in the fuckingoffice.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:37):
Some lady's getting some coffee.
By the way, as an aside- A lotof coffee in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:42):
A lot of coffee.
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:43):
don't think, did we ever see him eat food once or is
it just like constantly like,give me some coffee?

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:48):
No, and again, another similarity with Heat in
terms of, I think Michael Mannreally likes scenes in diners.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:55):
He, look, his favorite thing is apparently
having serious conversations ina diner at 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:02):
Yes, very much so.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, if ithasn't come through yet, if
anybody out there is a fan ofHeat, you've got to watch this
movie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:12):
You really do.
It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:15):
You owe it to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:16):
Yeah, like just the same DNA.
And again, they are two separatefilms, but you can very clearly
see the through line betweenthem.
And in any case...
Tom Signorelli.
So some of his credits.
I just think this is aninteresting title.
The Beautiful, the Bloody andthe Bear.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:34):
Oh, I didn't.
I was not going to pick thatlast one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:38):
Yeah.
He was in the Anderson tapes,Bang the Drum Slowly, Alice,
Sweet Alice, The Cotton Club,The Pickup Artist.
He did some TV.
We

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:48):
could do The Pickup Artist, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:49):
Yeah.
Yes, we could.
We could also do The CottonClub.
He did TV work, but he had alittle bit of a stint on a show
called Dream Street.
And then he was in Dick Tracy,and his final credit was
Sleepers.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:04):
Oh, okay.
I had no idea that this guyhad...
that kind of prolificfilmography.
Like I, he kind of like you seehim in the movie.
It's like, this guy looks like aguy that you would see in
exactly this kind of role inthis kind of movie.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:18):
Yes.
Yes.
I have no idea what the otherroles entailed.
Maybe there was some crossoverin terms of character, but

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:25):
perhaps

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:26):
synopsis after years in prison, Ace safe cracker,
Frank, owns a car dealership anda cocktail lounge, which are
fronts for high stakes jewelryheists.
He wants to complete one lastbig heist for the mob before he
goes straight.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:47):
Hmm.
I mean, what did we talk aboutearlier?
Yep.
It's a mistake.
It's a mistake.
It never, it never goes, like,that's just like the plot of so
many of these movies.
No one's ever like...

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:57):
Frank

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:58):
is in the middle of his career of crime and he just
wants to get maybe three moreyears out of this.
Fucking set me up for somesequels, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:07):
No, you're absolutely right.
It's a bit of a cliche, the onelast big heist.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:17):
like the cop is like, he's supposed to retire
next week.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:20):
And unfortunately, it's like a thread that you
can't pull because it's like...
especially when they set upthese characters, like that is
probably my biggest problem withHeat is that I don't buy that De
Niro would...
First of all, they never wouldhave brought on that guy for
that one job.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:36):
No.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:36):
Because he was not part of the crew.
They didn't know him.
He was volatile.
There's no fucking way theywould have brought him on that
job.
But that

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:43):
happens in all these movies too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:45):
And you start pulling that thread and you kind
of have to just go along withthe movie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:49):
Where's the normal guy?
We don't have the normal guy.
We just got Mickey over here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:52):
Yeah.
We just have this rando.
So, you know.
And same thing with De Nirobeing like, I then become like
obsessed with like getting himI'm like no if the way that they
set up that character he's waytoo smart he'd walk away you
know like it

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:08):
within 30 seconds

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:12):
And like we said earlier in the show, same thing
here with Frank, where it'slike, I don't know.
You set him up as he's verystraight-laced.
He's very smart with his money.
He's a hothead, but he still issmart about the choices he
makes, like outside of hisinteractions with people.
Yeah.
So I just didn't buy it that hewould have to do this job.

UNKNOWN (01:07:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:36):
Yeah, but it is a really good film.
I think that it's really, reallyinteresting to see such an early
work from Michael Mann

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:44):
to

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:45):
know where he went after this.
So I really, really enjoyedwatching it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:51):
Yeah, I really liked it.
Like I said, I was aware of thefilm.
I didn't know it was an 80smovie because...
everything that I had seen asfar as clips made me think it
was probably too early.
It looks like it's from the 70sand that mostly played out, but
that's fine because the 80s arecertainly a thing and you see

(01:08:16):
movies or TV shows now that kindof try to take advantage of
nostalgia from that decade, butit's nice to see movie from the
80s that doesn't feel it doesn'tfeel like it's a product like
this movie stands alone and youcan watch it and enjoy it

(01:08:37):
regardless

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:38):
I feel like we've done you know we're at like a
we're just under like 150 filmsat this point which is kind of
crazy but we've done enough andAnd we've seen enough that I
think that you can kind ofdivide the 80s.
And maybe you could do this withother decades.
I'm just maybe not as likefamiliar with them.
But you can divide up the 80skind of into thirds where it's

(01:08:58):
like 1980 to like– maybe 83, thefilms almost feel more like the
70s.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:06):
They're not full 80s yet.
They're not full

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:08):
80s yet.
Although, you know, there's someexceptions.
Like Fast Times is 82.
That feels like an 80s film.
It does.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:15):
It feels like an 80s film because looking back,
that's like how people havedefined

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:20):
that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:21):
So it almost like created part of that perception.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:24):
But like I'll just say very early 80s feel...
a lot in a lot of ways, likevery late seventies.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:31):
And then I think the way that people have like, you
know, tapped into the nostalgiaof the eighties, we're really
tapping into like 83 to like 87kind of with like, that's what I
think you think of.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:45):
Just like the way the characters are, are like
talking and dressed, like the,the costuming and everything has
like a, that look to it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:52):
And then the very late eighties, like if you're
even thinking about, you know, Imean, this isn't a good example
because it's

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:58):
excellent

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:58):
comic, but like Batman or like now it already
feels like we're just into theearly 90s with some of these
films.
Yeah.
Or like, I don't know, like evenlike Feel the Dreams or
something like that almost kindof can feel like early 90s than
80s.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:15):
I guess Feel the Dreams is one of those where it
just feels like it is like itsown thing.
Like there are a few.

UNKNOWN (01:10:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:23):
It is

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:24):
just in terms of like the way, like the

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:26):
much like baseball,

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:27):
the visual qualities of the film.
Yeah.
Because I just feel like there'sa certain kind of sophistication
that you see evolving through80s film that those last couple
of years, a lot of the filmslook like they're already part
of the 90s.
Yeah.
But in any case,

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:45):
the real difference for me, at least between the 80s
and 90s, is just like the hugejump in VFX.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:51):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Call to action.
I mean, mine in a way is kind ofobvious.
I would love to know if peopleout there agree with our
assessment of just like thecrazy crossovers between this

(01:11:12):
film and Heat.
If they've noticed others thatwe didn't pick up on or if they
think, no, no.
It's its own film.
I don't know how you could, butlike, no, it's its own film and
it has nothing to do with whatman did later with heat.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:26):
I mean, the connection between those two
seems really strong to me.
Like I see it and I'm not asfamiliar.
I know heat into that movie, butnot as well as you do.
And like thinking back on someof the other Michael Mann
movies, like collateral is theone where I just made the joke
about like, why isn't it ever amovie about someone who's just
like in the middle.
That's kind of what Tom Cruisewas.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:47):
That's true.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:49):
Like he was just doing a job.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:51):
that's a good point.
That's a really good

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:53):
point.
So I guess that does exist outthere.
That was going to be my call toaction is to find me a movie
where that was the case.
And I just found it.
So I just answered my own.
The

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:01):
stakes have to come from somewhere.
So in this film, the stakes comefrom like Frank's.
Reasoning for why he has to dothis one big height last heist,
which presumably is Jesse andhis family.
Yeah.
In collateral, the stakes arethat there's a time constraint.

UNKNOWN (01:12:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:17):
The stakes?
Yeah, the stakes are that JamieFoxx's character had given,
because he was a cabbie, so hehad given a ride to the DA who
was prosecuting the case thatTom Cruise had a hit list to
kill certain witnesses.
Cracked.
And was going to kill the DAafter...

(01:12:40):
like Jamie Foxx had done somestuff that kind of like led to
that all happening.
So the stakes were much moreimmediate.
Like, yes, it was just a guytrying to stop this thing from
happening.
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:50):
But the, yeah, the, the.
Yeah.
Agreed.
So in any case.
If you would like to get intouch with us, we would love to
hear from you.
You can reach out throughFacebook, Blue Sky or Instagram.
It's the same handle for allthree.
It is at 80s Montage Pod and 80sis 80S.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:13):
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:13):
Okay.
Sneak peek.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:15):
Oh, God.
What is it?
I don't know.
Well, the clue.
Oh, is there a clue?
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:19):
The clue is that for the first time this season, we
are doing a film with a guest.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:24):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:26):
Do you know what film we were doing with the
guest?
I did.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:30):
I did.
Yeah.
And in

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:32):
fact, I brought up the director.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:34):
that's not.
Earlier.
We talked about so manydirectors.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:37):
We did.
But I was like, oh, how funnythat Michael Mann produced on
this guy's film.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:42):
Oh, man.
And

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:45):
the film was The Aviator.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:47):
Yeah.
Scorsese.
Uh-huh.
Scorsese.

UNKNOWN (01:13:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:54):
So not the first Scorsese film that we've done on
the podcast, but it has been avery long time since we've
covered one of his films.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:00):
The first one was Raging Bull?
Correct.
Yeah.
Hmm.
I could go to IMDb and look upScorsese's filmography and then
edit this part out so that itwould make it seem like...

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:14):
It stars the poor friend Jack from American
Werewolf in London who getskilled.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:23):
Yeah, I remember that guy.
Perfect

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:24):
Dunn.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:25):
Yeah, who?
Is that his name?
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:31):
That's kind of all I got.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:32):
Scorsese movies.
After

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:39):
Hours.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:40):
That's a movie?
Yes.
That's the name of a movie?
That is

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:42):
the name of a movie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:44):
Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:44):
Yes, I'm actually...
So there might be...
I feel like it's a comedicversion of...
Maybe– I'm not saying it hasanything crossover with
Clateral, but it's also like Ithink over the course of a
night.
I have not seen it in itsentirety.
I've only seen bits and pieces.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:04):
Now that I'm looking at the key art, I remember.
Yeah.
I remember it all.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:07):
Yeah.
I'm really excited to cover thisone.
And yeah, for the first timethis season, we're going to have
a guest.
So thank you to everyone forhanging with us.
We really appreciate that of allthe choices that you can make in
terms of what you listen to,you're hanging with us and we'll
talk to you again in two weekstime.