June 10, 2025 • 27 mins
Grab your mug before it falls through the table it's time to review Doctor Who season 2! On the menu: Relying on nostalgia, Poppy, Mrs. Flood & the Rani, finale episode flops & wins, saying goodbye to Ncuti and more!
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(00:00) - Intro & Update
(01:10) - Interstellar Song Contest
(09:28) - The Finales & Ncuti’s Regeneration & Belinda
(18:57) - Relying on Nostalgia & Billie Piper Returning
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Knock, knock. Who's there?
Doctor Who? Doctor Who?
Who exactly? Oh, stop.
He's back, baby. Hey everyone, I'm Derek.
That's Noah. Today we're talking about the
(00:21):
rest of the episodes of Doctor Who season 2, because if you
listen to our episode covering the rest of the episodes of the
last of a season 2, you learned that I had some health things
going on. But we're back, right?
Yeah, yeah, we're back. So we missed what, 3 episodes I
think of Doctor Gates as far as doing episode by episode.
We so we're gonna just like whatwe did with The Last of Us.
(00:43):
We're going to regurgitate our thoughts on Doctor Who season 2
and and shooties goodbye to The Who.
Oh, thoughts and feelings they all been just bottling up
inside. I can't wait to get them out.
And I'm sure he can't wait to hear me.
That's a. Surprising farewell for the
season, we shall say. Yeah, yeah.
(01:04):
So spoiler ahead for Doctor Who as a franchise and Season 2.
All right, so let us officially take a bite of Doctor Who Season
2. So we're going to start off with
the Interstellar Song Contest, which I thought was a really fun
episode. But I think I think it's a good
idea to talk about that before we get into the two parter
(01:24):
finale. Yeah, just gets so different.
And, and obviously this was perfectly timed.
So if you're a fan of Eurovision, you know about the
Eurovision Song Contest. And this was out the same
weekend that that was. And so it was like that was fun
planning, I thought, on Doctor Who production team's part.
And this episode, I felt like was solidly Whovian, right.
It took place in space. There were some new creatures
(01:47):
introduced or aliens or, or species introduced.
And I think that it unearthed some things about actually
what's going on with Earth. Yeah, just to.
Say that just a little bit. And we also got Dugadoo.
That they were great and we alsogot Graham Norton.
Yeah, whole Graham Norton, right, right.
Yeah, I think I thought the episode was really fun.
(02:09):
I honestly think that some partsof it acting wise and just
production in the set with some of the best of the season.
I'm not I I think there's a trend that that's happening a
little bit in Russell G Davies 2where the ideas are good, but
some of the execution just isn'tas great.
(02:29):
And I think particularly with this episode, like, you know,
everything that's happening in Gaza and then having this
episode with like, you know, youhave one genocide victim and
another genocide victim talking to each other.
But then like the things that the doctor does at the end, some
of it just didn't land too greatas far as what I think.
(02:50):
But as a whole, some of the bestvisuals in this entire season.
The unfortunate when everybody gets launched up into space and
that bubble. I don't think who has looked
that good and it's unfortunate that their bodies being launched
into space, but it looks so goodand the songs were fun.
I think we could have used more songs.
(03:10):
I. Agree.
I agree, I mean it was fun that we had our Co hosts.
One of them was feline. It was like a feline humanoid
character, but and we definitelyneeded more songs.
It would have been more fun to see more of the program because
as we're watching the Doctor andBelinda watch it, they're having
such a good time watching it. It would have been nice to be a
part of that. But I I absolutely see what you
(03:32):
were saying. I thought that it was
interesting at the end of this episode to see the Doctor be so
intense and so kind of really threatening to to the folks that
took over the the Song Contest, which we don't really see that
often. And for me, I mean, I kind of
(03:52):
welcomed it a little bit. It was nice to see a different
side of the Doctor. But I know for folks that are
more like like yourself who havereally been with the series for
a long time, it felt kind of jarring.
Yeah, well, I mean, the doctor'srage is always a thing, right?
But it's really on how they contain it or deal with it or
whatever in the situations that they're in.
(04:13):
And a lot of this, the ways thatthey overcome things is non
violence. So to see the Doctor enact
violence repeatedly was jarring in that.
Like there's things that make a character and that's like one of
the things that was like, I'm not saying they can't.
I think that there are situations where it's warranted.
I'm not too sure. In that situation, it was like,
(04:36):
I get it, a lot happened, right?He thought he lost Belinda.
He thought he lost all of these people, and the Delta wave was
going to wipe out pretty much the whole western side of the
Galaxy, I think they said. So it's a lot, right?
And it's getting flashbacks of everything that happened to
Gallifrey. I don't know.
It's just like you kind of wrotethe character to do that.
So I'm not too sure how I feel about it.
(04:58):
I think that that part, if we didn't have that, this episode
may have landed a little better for people, myself included.
But I did think it was oddly enough, fun.
And some of the other circumstances, you know, we got
a queer couple in here that I loved how they both kind of fell
in love with the Doctor, that they were an integral part to
saving everybody. So I think that there's some
really high points in this episode and some some low
(05:20):
points. Yeah, I was going to bring up
that representation of the queercouple as well.
And I was trying to figure out at the beginning of the episode,
like where they were going to fit into this whole thing.
I thought that they were just going to be annoyed that the
doctor and Belinda took their seats at the contest, but in
reality, they were the ones thatwere able to save everyone.
I do think one of the important things this episode is that
(05:42):
little Graham Norton piece wherehe lets us know that Earth no
longer exists. And so that is kind of, I don't
honestly, I'm not sure if it actually answers the big
question mark of the season, butit gave gives us a clue as to
maybe why Belinda can't get back.
To Earth. Yeah.
Yeah. I, I, I I'll say, yeah, I guess
I'll save more of those thoughtsfor like, when we get to the
(06:04):
finale pieces of this episode. It was one of those things we
kind of could piece together of like, OK, well, you can't get
somewhere that doesn't exist, right?
So I guess that makes sense. So when we saw this episode, we
got the Screener for it. And when the TARDIS explodes,
that's where our episode ended. We didn't get credits.
We didn't get anything. And I was like, this is weird.
Nothing makes sense. And then so when we were going
(06:25):
to record it, which we didn't get to.
Thanks Derek, but. I almost died, but then I.
Saw I saw on Saturday, people were talking about Misses Flood
and I was like, what? So then we had to wait.
We had to wait. And then we finally were able to
watch it and I was like the Ronnie interesting.
So this entire time the big revelation of who misses Flood
(06:46):
is, and I think I did say that back in season 1, I'm like,
she's wearing the Ronnie's outfit, that white outfit at the
end of season 1, I was like, that almost makes me think that
it's her. Turns out it is.
So we got another by regeneration, which is a little
annoying. I, I don't know if I like that
thing that keeps happening. I think the explanation that the
(07:07):
Ronnie gives Archie's Ronnie is that because they're all sterile
and they can't reproduce, the Time Lords Physiology is
figuring out a way to reproduce,and that's by by regeneration.
They're like amoebas, yeah. Basically I think it's fine as a
one off as a 60th anniversary special, but I'm not too sure I
(07:30):
like that. You know, the by regeneration
doesn't bother me so much, but in in general.
But I think what bothered me about this, and I feel like this
is where things sort of fell apart for the rest of the
season, is that Missus Flood wasour big almost villain that was
going through season 1 and season 2, especially in season
(07:51):
2. And then once the by
regeneration happens, she becomes a lackey of the Ronnie.
And so that for me feels like, why did we build this character
up so long for her to just become someone second in
command? Yeah, I think when that had
happened, I I believe that was one of the things that we had
talked about when we saw it. I was like, that's weird that
(08:12):
she's like subservient to Archie's the Ronnie.
I think that's my issue with by regeneration, right?
It's like you are the same person.
You just kind of split and then from that split, you're almost
different, right? Because we have 14 and 15.
They're different, but they're the same.
I just think it complicates things unnecessarily.
(08:33):
And then to your point, it's like we've had two seasons of
this character of like, who is she?
What is she going to do? And then for her to just be,
I'll get those numbers for you, I'll report this for you and
then dip out at the end. Is the signs of too much stuff
was happening in a show or a story and they just didn't know
how to execute it well or finishthe story?
(08:56):
Yeah. And kind of going along those
lines now. Correct me if I'm wrong, he the
doctor begins having flashbacks to or or flash forwards or
visions of Susan his his grandchild, right?
And that also felt like it didn't go anywhere for me
either. So it was like this Interstellar
Song Contest episode gave us some things that didn't seem to
(09:21):
really pan out in the final two episodes of the season.
Yeah. So I mean, I guess, yeah, let's
let's go to like, I, I guess we can call this not even just the
finale, right? Or season 2.
It's just kind of Anchuti's run.I would say I very disappointed.
I think, you know, not to skip to the end, but when Anchuti
wasn't regenerating, you know, there was whispers that it was
(09:42):
going to happen. There was rumors.
It kind of felt like it was going that way oddly in the
finale. And I didn't want it to happen.
I got physically upset of him regenerating.
And it wasn't because he was regenerating.
Mostly it was because I felt like he deserved better.
And I was. So I loved this Doctor.
(10:03):
I loved Anshuti as the Doctor. And it just time and time again
when it felt like, oh, this is the Doctor.
Like we're finally getting to know something about the Doctor.
Something odd in the story happens or like it kind of
changes. And this just felt like such a
short just cut off with the doctor.
So it made me very upset that they were leaving.
(10:23):
And then for the final product of their the end of their run or
the season, it just didn't really land then.
I think that's the nicest way I can put it.
Because you had Omega, you had the two Ronnies, you had Poppy
being very important. Kind of almost out of nowhere.
Susan was teased, but you don't see her ever again.
(10:46):
Belinda's story kind of just gets rewritten oddly and then us
as an audience is almost gas litinto thinking that, oh, this
whole time she was looking for, she just wanted to go back home
to her child. That's fine.
There was no indication of that.So it was just a lot of weird
big ideas that again, didn't work all together.
(11:09):
Yeah, I, I found that I had no idea that this was the end of
Anshuti's run as the Doctor. And I, I think one of the things
that is so upsetting to me is that it didn't feel like a
natural end at all. And watching that final episode,
I didn't think like, oh, this isour goodbye to to this doctor.
This is their final moment. They kind of came to do what
(11:32):
they had to do and it's over it it it felt like it was tacked on
to the end of the episode, this random scene of him by himself
in the TARDIS and he's ready to to change.
And it just felt so unexpected. And it felt like the story was
clothed very unnaturally. And to me, that's what it felt
(11:52):
like with Belinda. It felt like they really didn't
know where they were going with her or they were going to a
different destination. And then by the end, for some
reason, they needed to change it.
Belinda as a character. What I was most excited for
Belinda was that she was so she was standing on her own, right,
(12:13):
and she didn't necessarily want to be on this journey and she
just wanted to get back home. And so I love the idea of having
a companion who almost felt likethey had a little more free will
in this entire thing. And then for it to just boil
down to something completely else.
I mean by I would say Episode 3,she's not really that.
(12:34):
She's not pushing as much to getback home.
Yeah, I think like as the episodes went on, because, you
know, there is that fantastical element of like, I get to travel
space and time, and I could possibly just go right back to
my life when I left. Cool.
That's always like the thing that captures the companion,
right? I would say that's true.
Like as episodes went on becausestuff started happening.
(12:56):
So it's like, do we really want to spend time with her being
obsessed? She's not home yet, come to find
out is that she had a daughter. And like, so it's like, oh, she
should have been a little more, but that's the gaslighty thing
of like the universe was off by smidge and then you smash them
together. I don't fully understand it.
I think the thing that for me that's really upsetting with
(13:16):
her, like not even just her story in general, I think her
character completely changed. I think kind of what you're
saying, like how she's, you know, could stand on her own.
She is that reluctant companion,the one that could tell the
Doctor, no, like, are you scanning my DNA without
permission? It wasn't the Belinda that we
started with. And that's when you can tell,
oh, something behind the scenes happened.
(13:36):
I don't want to like, add to that fire.
Who really knows? Aside from the people that did
those decisions and shoot Dee and also do Davies and all of
them, there's things that you can clearly tell from like
interviews and just production stuff that there was a reshoot
that happened at the house that Belinda had those final scenes
with way after the fact when Season 2 was already done.
(13:57):
So it does seem that like maybe his regeneration was out of
nowhere and it was supposed to continue.
You know, maybe we'll find out at some point, but it's just
unfortunate. Yeah, I, I.
Mean, I think another unfortunate thing, like, sorry,
we're being so down on the dumpsover here, but another
character, Ruby. I but yeah, I mean, I agree.
(14:18):
I think like in wish world, Rubywas like not like it was kind of
an odd whatever. And then like, oh, in the
reality war when she, I don't know, just like let Connor off.
I would have just punched the shit out.
Like, come on. Yeah, that was like, we could,
we could, you know, let her punch somebody.
(14:38):
Yeah, it should have been Conradand the whole Conrad.
Conrad, Yeah. And the whole Conrad's like,
let's try and just wrap our minds around that for a second
of just. Conrad is kept in a room telling
stories to people with the baby and he created a dinosaur world
like. Like what?
(14:59):
Yeah. I mean, I think again, it works
if it wasn't coupled with the Pantheon, the Ronnies, Omega
Belinda's story. Poppy, Susan, Ruby kind of out
of nowhere again, right. Other Susan.
Oh yeah, she was there. Yeah.
(15:19):
I think there was just too much.And it was oh, whatever, I'm
just going to have an expositiondump that Ronnie did it a few
times and it was like, OK, that's fine.
Like Doctor Who has a lot of exposition.
It's a lot of conversations, butthey're clever conversations and
they're conversations that you you want to hear again and
again, or you're like, that's really clever.
(15:39):
Like how they figured this out or the explanation of this.
But when it kept happening in these finales, I was like, oh,
you're just telling us information that you should
have. Like, it should have been
conveyed, but it can't be conveyed.
So now the villain has the monologue.
Yeah. I it just.
Yeah. Again, it just too much stuff.
(15:59):
Too many ingredients in the pot just didn't pay off.
Should we talk about the rogue? Oh, come on.
Yeah, OK, OK. I I do want to add some
positives to this. OK, looks great.
Yes, the music was banging, banging performances fantastic.
I want to say Jodie Whitaker showing up, giving our doctor
(16:22):
that like send off. Oh, it was beautiful, so
beautiful. What other doctor could have
done that for Anchuti? But Jodie Whitaker's doctor,
God, I miss her so much too. Like I just wanted more of them
together. And it it does feel oddly
comforting to have both of thesedoctors in a way have like a
send off as much as we could getit because I feel like both of
(16:45):
them got shit for being the doctor one but also didn't get
their full potential. Jodie's ended with a six episode
special essentially and shootiesgot cut short.
It's very obvious it got cut short.
So to have both of them, I don'tknow, send off with each other
was was kind of nice. You know, I wish you would have
(17:05):
just gone and told Yaz, I love you should have done it.
So maybe in the reality that gotshifted back to normal, maybe
she did tell him, but her words to him of saying, you know, just
go in there with the smile that you have.
Oh, it's so good. And it's like those little
moments like when I think about this whole thing, this mess of a
finale, that's the moment I think of.
(17:27):
I'm like, it wasn't worth it forthat.
But I was like that just there'sglimmers of like, guys, we could
do this, it's right there. Come on.
I need to know what happens downthat one hallway of the TARDIS
where like people just pop out of it and like or like they
change costumes and stuff. There's a whole episode that
(17:49):
takes place like all in the TARDIS and I, I think it's Matt
Smith in the Ponds and there's like a swimming pool in there.
Like it's just, it's crazy the amount of space that this TARDIS
has. I'll I'll have you watch it at
some point. It's super fun.
I mean, I do. I do agree though.
Like even though I thought the wish World episode was hella
confusing, I loved the look of it.
(18:09):
Kind of this retro 50s and 60s vibe.
Just the even just the houses, the the dress, the costumes.
I even loved the bins that they had out front where they threw
their cups out right? That felt like that stuff felt
so clever. So clean, so cool, looked so
crisp. I love the bright colors of
everything, but the story itselfjust seemed a little all over
(18:31):
the place. I liked Anita being involved
with the Time Hotel. I not sure that's how the time
Hotel worked originally, but I liked the use of it here and
bring that character from Moffett's our our favorites
Christmas special or holiday special.
Hey, Joy came back to come on. Joy's always back.
Joy is a star, baby. Yeah, I mean, I'm.
(18:56):
I'm not too sure what else. Like, I I think Anshuti deserved
more. I think a lot of people deserve
more. This story oddly feels like it
was originally meant to be something else and then just
completely changed. It's unfortunate.
I. Think that's the bottom line is
I think the thing that is most upsetting here is that there was
an opportunity to do something really fantastic and it flopped.
(19:21):
I think that it almost, upon reflection, felt like they knew
they could do something really fantastic.
They had all the tools, but theyjust fell back.
But unfortunately, it didn't mesh.
Things that they used to do didn't mesh with the things that
they were trying to do. Yeah, and there there is a
problem with Russell G Davies inthe first season in this one of
(19:43):
relying on nostalgia. There was something that he
said, I it's an interview. I can't remember where he did
it. You can find it where he talked
about how this is like changing and it's new and like, it should
be for new people to just come in here and watch it and like
not rely on blah blah, blah. But it's like both end villains
from both of these seasons are classic who characters that
(20:05):
people outside of the UK can't even watch 'cause there's
legally nowhere to watch them. So there's a lot of like relying
on nostalgia. David Tennant coming back.
Great for 60th with the nobles. It was so worth it.
The Wild Blue Yonder is one of the my favorite episodes of who.
I love that so much. But to bring Billie Piper back
(20:28):
as the regenerated form of whatever that means.
Because it's not Rose. I'm hoping it's not Rose.
It's the face of Rose. I don't understand I I'm very
confused. I'm so confused.
I wish I was happy. I I think it's weird.
There's other words I want to use, but I don't want.
(20:50):
I love this franchise so much. And it's like, I don't want to
say desperate, but it feels desperate, right?
I don't understand. And the unfortunate thing is
there's at this moment, there's no like Doctor Who's going to
come back. We don't know when what's BBC
and Disney going to do? So whatever happens, that could
(21:10):
just be forgotten about, like, oh, Billy coming back, like they
just needed to put somebody there and Billy Piper was the
person or it's going to be BillyPiper for like a special and
then to the next person. Literally what I was going to
say. It's going to be another
Christmas special, Christmas special.
It's going to be the Christmas special, they're going to buy
Regenerate again and then it'll be the new person.
(21:32):
Regenerate, I swear to God. No more by regenerations.
No, no, no. I'm.
Done by. It's by regeneration.
No, I can't no more. It's confusing.
It doesn't make sense. How about this?
Because one of the best actors to come out of this season was
Baby Poppy. Well, OK, so like the whole, I
honestly, sorry, I, I, I honestly was on board with Poppy
(21:54):
being the doctor's daughter. I'm like cool, OK, cuz Susan is
a granddaughter. Direct Line.
We got it. We know nothing about his
family. And then for them to like
rewrite it cuz the realities were off and they had to put it
back together. Man, I had such hope.
It was like, that is so cool. Yeah, totally down with it.
(22:15):
Taken away from us. But in all seriousness though,
Oh my gosh. Reacting to everything, blowing
kisses. She was adorable.
I think they should make her. They should make a spin off
series called Baby Doctor and it's starring Poppy.
Yes, please. Right.
Yes, I would like you. Yeah.
One of the scenes that I think is a stand out, at least for the
(22:38):
finale, aside from and Chuti notfalling out of the TARDIS and
just floating majestically with the giant beams of regeneration,
is the scene when Poppy disappears.
And you have Ruby, Belinda and the Doctor and the TARDIS and
they're passing your coat back and forth.
And it gets smaller and smaller and the conversation of Poppy
gets further and further away and then the crib disappears.
(23:00):
And to have Ruby be like, why isnobody remembering Poppy?
Which they never answer on why Ruby can remember things.
Maybe it's for the next season if we get one, but I just love
that scene so much. It was just such a masterful way
to explain something that's happening with it getting
smaller and smaller and then it disappears.
But I think that that is then when everything changed, because
(23:24):
there's a point in when Ruby is like, where's Poppy, blah, blah
blah, and the doctors kind of sidestepping it anytime Ruby
says anything. And he winks at Ruby and he
looks a little sad. So it's almost like he
remembers, but he doesn't want Belinda to remember, and so he
kind of wants it to to go away. And then we get the ending we
(23:46):
got. So that's when I think it
changed. What do you think it like?
What do you think it could have been?
Well, I think Poppy disappearingand then rewriting the realities
that it's Belinda's child because we Belinda thinks Poppy
is her child. It could be, I don't know, like
from Wish world, she's like, I believe it and I feel like it's
(24:07):
my child, so she's my child. And they made it such a big part
of that Wish World episode to make sure that Poppy survived
and then she didn't. But I, I do agree that that
scene of them passing the code back and forth, that was showing
us, not telling us, right? We're seeing the literal
manifestation of them forgettingPoppy.
So yeah, I just think overall, Imean the season overall, it felt
(24:31):
like there were some high points, but a lot of it felt a
little confusing and it felt like they weren't really sure
what they were doing the whole time.
And you know, the season it it it started off really strong.
We got the robot revolution, we got Lux, we had the well, like
just such huge good episodes. And then I think it fell into
this weird trap of like, we haveto have this huge overarching
(24:54):
story, but with like multiple overarching stories and it just
couldn't really find its footing.
I think going forward, like if Russell G Davies wants to stay
on it, look, I'm very grateful that they brought Who back in
2005, and I think they've done some good stuff with this one.
But I think they just need to get fresh and new writers.
They need to get new people in here and like, just leave the
(25:17):
classic stuff in the past. Let's stop reusing people just
to get people to watch it, you know, create a good story and
people will come. Don't rely on David Tennant's
face or Billie Piper's face to bring people in because Anchuti
brought people. You know, how many times, like
on social media when Anchuti wasannounced as a Doctor because
(25:37):
sex education, because Anchuti was getting so popular, people
were like, oh, maybe I should start watching this.
Like, you don't need to do that,You know what I mean?
So I don't know. I hope that whatever form Doctor
Who comes back, and I hope it does come back, but, you know,
we get something better and moredeserving.
You know, I'm just sad that we don't have Anchuti, you know,
(26:00):
this wonderful queer actor and this huge franchise with such a
win. And do better next time, I'd
say. Yeah.
But let's know what you thought.Did you enjoy it?
Are you hopeful for the next Doctor?
Who do you want as the next Doctor?
Better not be Billie Piper. Listen, all I can say is listen
to Billie Piper's debut album from the early 2000s 'cause that
(26:24):
shit slaps, yeah, and. Her as Rose is amazing, we don't
need her back. I've been missing you.
Oh, so good. Honey did the bee.
Oh. So good.
All right. Well, TARDIS noise fade out.
Yes. Bye.
Knock, knock. Who's there?
Doctor Who? Doctor Who?
Who exactly? Oh, stop.
He's back, baby. Hey everyone, I'm Derek.
That's Noah. Today we're talking about the
(00:21):
rest of the episodes of Doctor Who season 2, because if you
listen to our episode covering the rest of the episodes of the
last of a season 2, you learned that I had some health things
going on. But we're back, right?
Yeah, yeah, we're back. So we missed what, 3 episodes I
think of Doctor Gates as far as doing episode by episode.
We so we're gonna just like whatwe did with The Last of Us.
(00:43):
We're going to regurgitate our thoughts on Doctor Who season 2
and and shooties goodbye to The Who.
Oh, thoughts and feelings they all been just bottling up
inside. I can't wait to get them out.
And I'm sure he can't wait to hear me.
That's a. Surprising farewell for the
season, we shall say. Yeah, yeah.
(01:04):
So spoiler ahead for Doctor Who as a franchise and Season 2.
All right, so let us officially take a bite of Doctor Who Season
2. So we're going to start off with
the Interstellar Song Contest, which I thought was a really fun
episode. But I think I think it's a good
idea to talk about that before we get into the two parter
(01:24):
finale. Yeah, just gets so different.
And, and obviously this was perfectly timed.
So if you're a fan of Eurovision, you know about the
Eurovision Song Contest. And this was out the same
weekend that that was. And so it was like that was fun
planning, I thought, on Doctor Who production team's part.
And this episode, I felt like was solidly Whovian, right.
It took place in space. There were some new creatures
(01:47):
introduced or aliens or, or species introduced.
And I think that it unearthed some things about actually
what's going on with Earth. Yeah, just to.
Say that just a little bit. And we also got Dugadoo.
That they were great and we alsogot Graham Norton.
Yeah, whole Graham Norton, right, right.
Yeah, I think I thought the episode was really fun.
(02:09):
I honestly think that some partsof it acting wise and just
production in the set with some of the best of the season.
I'm not I I think there's a trend that that's happening a
little bit in Russell G Davies 2where the ideas are good, but
some of the execution just isn'tas great.
(02:29):
And I think particularly with this episode, like, you know,
everything that's happening in Gaza and then having this
episode with like, you know, youhave one genocide victim and
another genocide victim talking to each other.
But then like the things that the doctor does at the end, some
of it just didn't land too greatas far as what I think.
(02:50):
But as a whole, some of the bestvisuals in this entire season.
The unfortunate when everybody gets launched up into space and
that bubble. I don't think who has looked
that good and it's unfortunate that their bodies being launched
into space, but it looks so goodand the songs were fun.
I think we could have used more songs.
(03:10):
I. Agree.
I agree, I mean it was fun that we had our Co hosts.
One of them was feline. It was like a feline humanoid
character, but and we definitelyneeded more songs.
It would have been more fun to see more of the program because
as we're watching the Doctor andBelinda watch it, they're having
such a good time watching it. It would have been nice to be a
part of that. But I I absolutely see what you
(03:32):
were saying. I thought that it was
interesting at the end of this episode to see the Doctor be so
intense and so kind of really threatening to to the folks that
took over the the Song Contest, which we don't really see that
often. And for me, I mean, I kind of
(03:52):
welcomed it a little bit. It was nice to see a different
side of the Doctor. But I know for folks that are
more like like yourself who havereally been with the series for
a long time, it felt kind of jarring.
Yeah, well, I mean, the doctor'srage is always a thing, right?
But it's really on how they contain it or deal with it or
whatever in the situations that they're in.
(04:13):
And a lot of this, the ways thatthey overcome things is non
violence. So to see the Doctor enact
violence repeatedly was jarring in that.
Like there's things that make a character and that's like one of
the things that was like, I'm not saying they can't.
I think that there are situations where it's warranted.
I'm not too sure. In that situation, it was like,
(04:36):
I get it, a lot happened, right?He thought he lost Belinda.
He thought he lost all of these people, and the Delta wave was
going to wipe out pretty much the whole western side of the
Galaxy, I think they said. So it's a lot, right?
And it's getting flashbacks of everything that happened to
Gallifrey. I don't know.
It's just like you kind of wrotethe character to do that.
So I'm not too sure how I feel about it.
(04:58):
I think that that part, if we didn't have that, this episode
may have landed a little better for people, myself included.
But I did think it was oddly enough, fun.
And some of the other circumstances, you know, we got
a queer couple in here that I loved how they both kind of fell
in love with the Doctor, that they were an integral part to
saving everybody. So I think that there's some
really high points in this episode and some some low
(05:20):
points. Yeah, I was going to bring up
that representation of the queercouple as well.
And I was trying to figure out at the beginning of the episode,
like where they were going to fit into this whole thing.
I thought that they were just going to be annoyed that the
doctor and Belinda took their seats at the contest, but in
reality, they were the ones thatwere able to save everyone.
I do think one of the important things this episode is that
(05:42):
little Graham Norton piece wherehe lets us know that Earth no
longer exists. And so that is kind of, I don't
honestly, I'm not sure if it actually answers the big
question mark of the season, butit gave gives us a clue as to
maybe why Belinda can't get back.
To Earth. Yeah.
Yeah. I, I, I I'll say, yeah, I guess
I'll save more of those thoughtsfor like, when we get to the
(06:04):
finale pieces of this episode. It was one of those things we
kind of could piece together of like, OK, well, you can't get
somewhere that doesn't exist, right?
So I guess that makes sense. So when we saw this episode, we
got the Screener for it. And when the TARDIS explodes,
that's where our episode ended. We didn't get credits.
We didn't get anything. And I was like, this is weird.
Nothing makes sense. And then so when we were going
(06:25):
to record it, which we didn't get to.
Thanks Derek, but. I almost died, but then I.
Saw I saw on Saturday, people were talking about Misses Flood
and I was like, what? So then we had to wait.
We had to wait. And then we finally were able to
watch it and I was like the Ronnie interesting.
So this entire time the big revelation of who misses Flood
(06:46):
is, and I think I did say that back in season 1, I'm like,
she's wearing the Ronnie's outfit, that white outfit at the
end of season 1, I was like, that almost makes me think that
it's her. Turns out it is.
So we got another by regeneration, which is a little
annoying. I, I don't know if I like that
thing that keeps happening. I think the explanation that the
(07:07):
Ronnie gives Archie's Ronnie is that because they're all sterile
and they can't reproduce, the Time Lords Physiology is
figuring out a way to reproduce,and that's by by regeneration.
They're like amoebas, yeah. Basically I think it's fine as a
one off as a 60th anniversary special, but I'm not too sure I
(07:30):
like that. You know, the by regeneration
doesn't bother me so much, but in in general.
But I think what bothered me about this, and I feel like this
is where things sort of fell apart for the rest of the
season, is that Missus Flood wasour big almost villain that was
going through season 1 and season 2, especially in season
(07:51):
2. And then once the by
regeneration happens, she becomes a lackey of the Ronnie.
And so that for me feels like, why did we build this character
up so long for her to just become someone second in
command? Yeah, I think when that had
happened, I I believe that was one of the things that we had
talked about when we saw it. I was like, that's weird that
(08:12):
she's like subservient to Archie's the Ronnie.
I think that's my issue with by regeneration, right?
It's like you are the same person.
You just kind of split and then from that split, you're almost
different, right? Because we have 14 and 15.
They're different, but they're the same.
I just think it complicates things unnecessarily.
(08:33):
And then to your point, it's like we've had two seasons of
this character of like, who is she?
What is she going to do? And then for her to just be,
I'll get those numbers for you, I'll report this for you and
then dip out at the end. Is the signs of too much stuff
was happening in a show or a story and they just didn't know
how to execute it well or finishthe story?
(08:56):
Yeah. And kind of going along those
lines now. Correct me if I'm wrong, he the
doctor begins having flashbacks to or or flash forwards or
visions of Susan his his grandchild, right?
And that also felt like it didn't go anywhere for me
either. So it was like this Interstellar
Song Contest episode gave us some things that didn't seem to
(09:21):
really pan out in the final two episodes of the season.
Yeah. So I mean, I guess, yeah, let's
let's go to like, I, I guess we can call this not even just the
finale, right? Or season 2.
It's just kind of Anchuti's run.I would say I very disappointed.
I think, you know, not to skip to the end, but when Anchuti
wasn't regenerating, you know, there was whispers that it was
(09:42):
going to happen. There was rumors.
It kind of felt like it was going that way oddly in the
finale. And I didn't want it to happen.
I got physically upset of him regenerating.
And it wasn't because he was regenerating.
Mostly it was because I felt like he deserved better.
And I was. So I loved this Doctor.
(10:03):
I loved Anshuti as the Doctor. And it just time and time again
when it felt like, oh, this is the Doctor.
Like we're finally getting to know something about the Doctor.
Something odd in the story happens or like it kind of
changes. And this just felt like such a
short just cut off with the doctor.
So it made me very upset that they were leaving.
(10:23):
And then for the final product of their the end of their run or
the season, it just didn't really land then.
I think that's the nicest way I can put it.
Because you had Omega, you had the two Ronnies, you had Poppy
being very important. Kind of almost out of nowhere.
Susan was teased, but you don't see her ever again.
(10:46):
Belinda's story kind of just gets rewritten oddly and then us
as an audience is almost gas litinto thinking that, oh, this
whole time she was looking for, she just wanted to go back home
to her child. That's fine.
There was no indication of that.So it was just a lot of weird
big ideas that again, didn't work all together.
(11:09):
Yeah, I, I found that I had no idea that this was the end of
Anshuti's run as the Doctor. And I, I think one of the things
that is so upsetting to me is that it didn't feel like a
natural end at all. And watching that final episode,
I didn't think like, oh, this isour goodbye to to this doctor.
This is their final moment. They kind of came to do what
(11:32):
they had to do and it's over it it it felt like it was tacked on
to the end of the episode, this random scene of him by himself
in the TARDIS and he's ready to to change.
And it just felt so unexpected. And it felt like the story was
clothed very unnaturally. And to me, that's what it felt
(11:52):
like with Belinda. It felt like they really didn't
know where they were going with her or they were going to a
different destination. And then by the end, for some
reason, they needed to change it.
Belinda as a character. What I was most excited for
Belinda was that she was so she was standing on her own, right,
(12:13):
and she didn't necessarily want to be on this journey and she
just wanted to get back home. And so I love the idea of having
a companion who almost felt likethey had a little more free will
in this entire thing. And then for it to just boil
down to something completely else.
I mean by I would say Episode 3,she's not really that.
(12:34):
She's not pushing as much to getback home.
Yeah, I think like as the episodes went on, because, you
know, there is that fantastical element of like, I get to travel
space and time, and I could possibly just go right back to
my life when I left. Cool.
That's always like the thing that captures the companion,
right? I would say that's true.
Like as episodes went on becausestuff started happening.
(12:56):
So it's like, do we really want to spend time with her being
obsessed? She's not home yet, come to find
out is that she had a daughter. And like, so it's like, oh, she
should have been a little more, but that's the gaslighty thing
of like the universe was off by smidge and then you smash them
together. I don't fully understand it.
I think the thing that for me that's really upsetting with
(13:16):
her, like not even just her story in general, I think her
character completely changed. I think kind of what you're
saying, like how she's, you know, could stand on her own.
She is that reluctant companion,the one that could tell the
Doctor, no, like, are you scanning my DNA without
permission? It wasn't the Belinda that we
started with. And that's when you can tell,
oh, something behind the scenes happened.
(13:36):
I don't want to like, add to that fire.
Who really knows? Aside from the people that did
those decisions and shoot Dee and also do Davies and all of
them, there's things that you can clearly tell from like
interviews and just production stuff that there was a reshoot
that happened at the house that Belinda had those final scenes
with way after the fact when Season 2 was already done.
(13:57):
So it does seem that like maybe his regeneration was out of
nowhere and it was supposed to continue.
You know, maybe we'll find out at some point, but it's just
unfortunate. Yeah, I, I.
Mean, I think another unfortunate thing, like, sorry,
we're being so down on the dumpsover here, but another
character, Ruby. I but yeah, I mean, I agree.
(14:18):
I think like in wish world, Rubywas like not like it was kind of
an odd whatever. And then like, oh, in the
reality war when she, I don't know, just like let Connor off.
I would have just punched the shit out.
Like, come on. Yeah, that was like, we could,
we could, you know, let her punch somebody.
(14:38):
Yeah, it should have been Conradand the whole Conrad.
Conrad, Yeah. And the whole Conrad's like,
let's try and just wrap our minds around that for a second
of just. Conrad is kept in a room telling
stories to people with the baby and he created a dinosaur world
like. Like what?
(14:59):
Yeah. I mean, I think again, it works
if it wasn't coupled with the Pantheon, the Ronnies, Omega
Belinda's story. Poppy, Susan, Ruby kind of out
of nowhere again, right. Other Susan.
Oh yeah, she was there. Yeah.
(15:19):
I think there was just too much.And it was oh, whatever, I'm
just going to have an expositiondump that Ronnie did it a few
times and it was like, OK, that's fine.
Like Doctor Who has a lot of exposition.
It's a lot of conversations, butthey're clever conversations and
they're conversations that you you want to hear again and
again, or you're like, that's really clever.
(15:39):
Like how they figured this out or the explanation of this.
But when it kept happening in these finales, I was like, oh,
you're just telling us information that you should
have. Like, it should have been
conveyed, but it can't be conveyed.
So now the villain has the monologue.
Yeah. I it just.
Yeah. Again, it just too much stuff.
(15:59):
Too many ingredients in the pot just didn't pay off.
Should we talk about the rogue? Oh, come on.
Yeah, OK, OK. I I do want to add some
positives to this. OK, looks great.
Yes, the music was banging, banging performances fantastic.
I want to say Jodie Whitaker showing up, giving our doctor
(16:22):
that like send off. Oh, it was beautiful, so
beautiful. What other doctor could have
done that for Anchuti? But Jodie Whitaker's doctor,
God, I miss her so much too. Like I just wanted more of them
together. And it it does feel oddly
comforting to have both of thesedoctors in a way have like a
send off as much as we could getit because I feel like both of
(16:45):
them got shit for being the doctor one but also didn't get
their full potential. Jodie's ended with a six episode
special essentially and shootiesgot cut short.
It's very obvious it got cut short.
So to have both of them, I don'tknow, send off with each other
was was kind of nice. You know, I wish you would have
(17:05):
just gone and told Yaz, I love you should have done it.
So maybe in the reality that gotshifted back to normal, maybe
she did tell him, but her words to him of saying, you know, just
go in there with the smile that you have.
Oh, it's so good. And it's like those little
moments like when I think about this whole thing, this mess of a
finale, that's the moment I think of.
(17:27):
I'm like, it wasn't worth it forthat.
But I was like that just there'sglimmers of like, guys, we could
do this, it's right there. Come on.
I need to know what happens downthat one hallway of the TARDIS
where like people just pop out of it and like or like they
change costumes and stuff. There's a whole episode that
(17:49):
takes place like all in the TARDIS and I, I think it's Matt
Smith in the Ponds and there's like a swimming pool in there.
Like it's just, it's crazy the amount of space that this TARDIS
has. I'll I'll have you watch it at
some point. It's super fun.
I mean, I do. I do agree though.
Like even though I thought the wish World episode was hella
confusing, I loved the look of it.
(18:09):
Kind of this retro 50s and 60s vibe.
Just the even just the houses, the the dress, the costumes.
I even loved the bins that they had out front where they threw
their cups out right? That felt like that stuff felt
so clever. So clean, so cool, looked so
crisp. I love the bright colors of
everything, but the story itselfjust seemed a little all over
(18:31):
the place. I liked Anita being involved
with the Time Hotel. I not sure that's how the time
Hotel worked originally, but I liked the use of it here and
bring that character from Moffett's our our favorites
Christmas special or holiday special.
Hey, Joy came back to come on. Joy's always back.
Joy is a star, baby. Yeah, I mean, I'm.
(18:56):
I'm not too sure what else. Like, I I think Anshuti deserved
more. I think a lot of people deserve
more. This story oddly feels like it
was originally meant to be something else and then just
completely changed. It's unfortunate.
I. Think that's the bottom line is
I think the thing that is most upsetting here is that there was
an opportunity to do something really fantastic and it flopped.
(19:21):
I think that it almost, upon reflection, felt like they knew
they could do something really fantastic.
They had all the tools, but theyjust fell back.
But unfortunately, it didn't mesh.
Things that they used to do didn't mesh with the things that
they were trying to do. Yeah, and there there is a
problem with Russell G Davies inthe first season in this one of
(19:43):
relying on nostalgia. There was something that he
said, I it's an interview. I can't remember where he did
it. You can find it where he talked
about how this is like changing and it's new and like, it should
be for new people to just come in here and watch it and like
not rely on blah blah, blah. But it's like both end villains
from both of these seasons are classic who characters that
(20:05):
people outside of the UK can't even watch 'cause there's
legally nowhere to watch them. So there's a lot of like relying
on nostalgia. David Tennant coming back.
Great for 60th with the nobles. It was so worth it.
The Wild Blue Yonder is one of the my favorite episodes of who.
I love that so much. But to bring Billie Piper back
(20:28):
as the regenerated form of whatever that means.
Because it's not Rose. I'm hoping it's not Rose.
It's the face of Rose. I don't understand I I'm very
confused. I'm so confused.
I wish I was happy. I I think it's weird.
There's other words I want to use, but I don't want.
(20:50):
I love this franchise so much. And it's like, I don't want to
say desperate, but it feels desperate, right?
I don't understand. And the unfortunate thing is
there's at this moment, there's no like Doctor Who's going to
come back. We don't know when what's BBC
and Disney going to do? So whatever happens, that could
(21:10):
just be forgotten about, like, oh, Billy coming back, like they
just needed to put somebody there and Billy Piper was the
person or it's going to be BillyPiper for like a special and
then to the next person. Literally what I was going to
say. It's going to be another
Christmas special, Christmas special.
It's going to be the Christmas special, they're going to buy
Regenerate again and then it'll be the new person.
(21:32):
Regenerate, I swear to God. No more by regenerations.
No, no, no. I'm.
Done by. It's by regeneration.
No, I can't no more. It's confusing.
It doesn't make sense. How about this?
Because one of the best actors to come out of this season was
Baby Poppy. Well, OK, so like the whole, I
honestly, sorry, I, I, I honestly was on board with Poppy
(21:54):
being the doctor's daughter. I'm like cool, OK, cuz Susan is
a granddaughter. Direct Line.
We got it. We know nothing about his
family. And then for them to like
rewrite it cuz the realities were off and they had to put it
back together. Man, I had such hope.
It was like, that is so cool. Yeah, totally down with it.
(22:15):
Taken away from us. But in all seriousness though,
Oh my gosh. Reacting to everything, blowing
kisses. She was adorable.
I think they should make her. They should make a spin off
series called Baby Doctor and it's starring Poppy.
Yes, please. Right.
Yes, I would like you. Yeah.
One of the scenes that I think is a stand out, at least for the
(22:38):
finale, aside from and Chuti notfalling out of the TARDIS and
just floating majestically with the giant beams of regeneration,
is the scene when Poppy disappears.
And you have Ruby, Belinda and the Doctor and the TARDIS and
they're passing your coat back and forth.
And it gets smaller and smaller and the conversation of Poppy
gets further and further away and then the crib disappears.
(23:00):
And to have Ruby be like, why isnobody remembering Poppy?
Which they never answer on why Ruby can remember things.
Maybe it's for the next season if we get one, but I just love
that scene so much. It was just such a masterful way
to explain something that's happening with it getting
smaller and smaller and then it disappears.
But I think that that is then when everything changed, because
(23:24):
there's a point in when Ruby is like, where's Poppy, blah, blah
blah, and the doctors kind of sidestepping it anytime Ruby
says anything. And he winks at Ruby and he
looks a little sad. So it's almost like he
remembers, but he doesn't want Belinda to remember, and so he
kind of wants it to to go away. And then we get the ending we
(23:46):
got. So that's when I think it
changed. What do you think it like?
What do you think it could have been?
Well, I think Poppy disappearingand then rewriting the realities
that it's Belinda's child because we Belinda thinks Poppy
is her child. It could be, I don't know, like
from Wish world, she's like, I believe it and I feel like it's
(24:07):
my child, so she's my child. And they made it such a big part
of that Wish World episode to make sure that Poppy survived
and then she didn't. But I, I do agree that that
scene of them passing the code back and forth, that was showing
us, not telling us, right? We're seeing the literal
manifestation of them forgettingPoppy.
So yeah, I just think overall, Imean the season overall, it felt
(24:31):
like there were some high points, but a lot of it felt a
little confusing and it felt like they weren't really sure
what they were doing the whole time.
And you know, the season it it it started off really strong.
We got the robot revolution, we got Lux, we had the well, like
just such huge good episodes. And then I think it fell into
this weird trap of like, we haveto have this huge overarching
(24:54):
story, but with like multiple overarching stories and it just
couldn't really find its footing.
I think going forward, like if Russell G Davies wants to stay
on it, look, I'm very grateful that they brought Who back in
2005, and I think they've done some good stuff with this one.
But I think they just need to get fresh and new writers.
They need to get new people in here and like, just leave the
(25:17):
classic stuff in the past. Let's stop reusing people just
to get people to watch it, you know, create a good story and
people will come. Don't rely on David Tennant's
face or Billie Piper's face to bring people in because Anchuti
brought people. You know, how many times, like
on social media when Anchuti wasannounced as a Doctor because
(25:37):
sex education, because Anchuti was getting so popular, people
were like, oh, maybe I should start watching this.
Like, you don't need to do that,You know what I mean?
So I don't know. I hope that whatever form Doctor
Who comes back, and I hope it does come back, but, you know,
we get something better and moredeserving.
You know, I'm just sad that we don't have Anchuti, you know,
(26:00):
this wonderful queer actor and this huge franchise with such a
win. And do better next time, I'd
say. Yeah.
But let's know what you thought.Did you enjoy it?
Are you hopeful for the next Doctor?
Who do you want as the next Doctor?
Better not be Billie Piper. Listen, all I can say is listen
to Billie Piper's debut album from the early 2000s 'cause that
(26:24):
shit slaps, yeah, and. Her as Rose is amazing, we don't
need her back. I've been missing you.
Oh, so good. Honey did the bee.
Oh. So good.
All right. Well, TARDIS noise fade out.
Yes. Bye.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.