April 22, 2025 • 35 mins
Get in the clicker cuddle pile, its time to discuss The Last of Us season 2, episode 2: Through the Valley. On the menu: The siege of Jackson, Tommy vs. Big Bloater, Abby’s revenge, Joel’s final moments, Ellie’s path forward, changes from the game and more!
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(00:00) - Intro
(01:36) - General Thoughts On Episode 2
(03:46) - The Siege on Jackson & Tommy
(12:13) - Leading to the End Ellie & Joel
(16:29) - Abby’s Revenge on Joel
(22:45) - Did the Changes Work?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Talk about infected. Look at my face.
I look like Joel at the end of this episode.
I have a chronic condition wheremy eye gets really swollen.
So if you're watching this, you're welcome.
Welcome to a Vita. Oh.
(00:23):
My God, the Pope is dead. Something else happens.
We haven't said a spoiler warning yet, but you know that
happens. My face looks like this.
We're talking about The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 2.
I'm Derek, and that's very pretty, Noah.
My eye is not swollen, no. It's not.
No, it's not. Yes, episode 2 of The Last of Us
(00:47):
is giving very much like series premiere energy.
There is spoilers, there is lotsof tough things to talk about.
I am trying to hold it together at this moment.
So follow us. Subscribe to those amazing,
wonderful things that you normally do.
Give a review comment below. Did you love this episode?
Did you hate it? What did you not like?
What did you like? We need to have a therapy
(01:07):
session. So spoilers, spoilers, spoilers
ahead. Let us officially take a bite of
The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 2, Through the Valley, written
by Neil Druckman and directed byMark Mylod.
Jackson is walloped with a stormof bloater size proportions.
The safe hold is broken by a horde of hibernating infected
(01:27):
and an emergency plan is initiated.
In a kismet moment, Joel saves Abby, but Abby does not return
the favor. So, general thoughts?
Sir, I don't know what do you think?
What do you what? What does anybody think?
Love it, couldn't wait. For it, no SO.
Excited for it to happen. I think this was the thing that
(01:50):
a lot of fans were dreading whenthey said this was going to be
ATV show. We all said hell yeah.
Oh no, because of this episode, because of this moment.
So how were they going to changeit?
How were they going to do it? Because we talked about in our
first review or first discussionof this the season so far that
they changed a lot of things that didn't stop here.
(02:13):
I think that they did some amazing things in this episode
and then there's some choices that I'm confused about.
I'm not a big fan of handholdingstuff, so I thought it was
surprising that they did some ofthat here.
But we got some like big action set pieces that were bigger and
grander than they were in the first season.
(02:35):
They promised us more infected. I think we got enough, like if
we didn't have any infected for the next two episodes, I think
they failed their quota at some point.
But I think All in all, it was agreat episode of television.
Yeah, there were a lot of movingparts to this episode.
And what I thought was really cool about it was that there was
I in my mind, there was just this loop of up and down the
(02:58):
mountain, right? And I think that a lot of people
were making that loop. I think a lot of infected were
making that loop. And I think it just kind of kept
all this action. So it felt so intense, even
though there it was happening intwo separate places.
So the whole episode was just like a nail biter of an episode.
I mean, literal hordes of infected here.
(03:21):
And I think all of the technicalpieces that came together to
create this episode were executed really well.
Yeah, this is the episode, right, that I think is going to
really set the groundwork to what the rest of the series is
going to be about. And this is the catalyst.
Again, it was the end of the season 1 and this one just puts
Ellie in this particular trajectory that will change the
(03:44):
course of everybody's lives in this in the show.
So one of the big changes and I would say maybe 2/3 of this
episode, there's the siege of Jackson, right?
We hear throughout this episode that there's, you know, infected
that are insulating themselves. They're smarter.
We knew that those roots had some of those cordycep tendrils
coming through there. How is all that going to play
(04:05):
out? Well, a giant big action set
piece that gave me like feelingsof Game of Thrones, which I was
not mad about. What did you make of this?
Like I guess grand almost war battle scene that we didn't see
in the first season at all. I well, like I said, I think
that the action we as viewers kind of needed something like
(04:27):
this and I think it was really well done.
One of the things that I think came of this that I really
enjoyed was seeing Tommy and Maria as leaders in Jackson
Hole. I think they really held their
own here. They managed to work together
without actually being together,still having each other's backs.
I think it showed them not only as leaders, but also as a
(04:50):
couple, as a relationship of P2,people who love each other, who
have literally been through the end of the world and could see
it all end in this moment. So as far as their character
development, you know, because with Tommy last season, he
really wasn't around that much. So to see him take more of a
center stage role in this scene,I really appreciate it.
Yeah, and you get to see how, you know, it's one thing to see
(05:13):
these people 20-30 years after the apocalypse happened, and
they're all they are. They're already prepared, but
how are they actually enacting those things that they prepared?
It was really cool to see in thein the game, we hear about
Jackson getting threats and things that happened, but you
never see it because in the gameat this point, because we know
what happens, they're gone, theyleave Jackson.
(05:34):
So like Jackson's kind of like in the review at this point.
So seeing like even just the thebarrels of gas that get dropped
down, how the fence was fortified, how they're going to
stand in the streets on Main Street with the flamethrowers,
the dogs being on the roofs, going up high ground, people
down below. It was really smart.
I like seeing all of those things where it's like, oh OK,
(05:57):
that could possibly work. And I think it's really, it was
very scary because there's only so much you can do to protect
yourself. You know, they did have this
really great plan in place, but watching things fall apart,
right? Even like you said, the barrels
going down and starting the fires, it only stopped so many
of them. Once a bloater came into town.
(06:18):
Absolutely. And seeing these big giant
wooden walls crumble at the hands of that bloater, it just
showed how even though they feelnot that necessarily advance,
but they feel modern as far as acity is concerned in these
conditions. There's only so much in their
control. And I, you know, I think that
that speaks to life itself and how you can prepare and prepare
(06:41):
and prepare, but you can't prepare for everything.
Well, and I what this episode really does too is it shows that
it's not just our main characters that are in trouble,
that other people are in troubleas well.
So I think from a world perspective and understanding
the costs and stakes of this world, we needed something like
this. Because seeing those, those
women, children, elderly, the the civilians just down below
(07:05):
cowering and hearing the door being shook, that's scary.
You know, you don't want these kids getting hurt.
And it's like, stop having kids.Like there's too many babies.
There was there was 1 scene where I was like, OK that's like
10 kids like. That's like, that's like the
quiet place. You know that like the big thing
of the Quiet Place? It's like, why did they have a
baby? Granted it's like 30 years but
(07:26):
still like Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
And I think, you know, I'm watching this.
You can't help but put yourself in in that place, in that
situation. And I'm going, oh, I'd be
useless. I'd be so useless in this entire
situation. But you know, I think hopefully
adrenaline takes over at some point.
You have no choice but to fight.And that's what I love so much
(07:47):
about Tommy here. You know, he he starts off kind
of at the top of the gates leading everyone.
When that fails, when they breakthrough, he ends up in the
street and he's kind of a line of these flamethrower soldiers
and they run away. Well, OK, I'm just going to.
So like while I did say it was cool to see their plans in
(08:08):
action, some of them I was like,what did you?
Maybe they didn't think there would be this many, but when you
saw that there was like thousands coming towards you, I
don't think four people with flamethrowers was going to do
much. Maybe hopefully like fish in a
barrel, kind of shooting fish ina barrel would have helped and
it did. But like they got overran so
quickly, which I think just evenshows that even though they've
(08:30):
advanced in some way and they have all of these precautions in
place, it doesn't matter once you get overwhelmed like that,
the numbers are just too great. And especially throwing a
bloater in there. I like seeing a bloater in the
more daylight. I guess you know, before we saw
him in that the very likes Narrow St. was dark.
There was only fire really illuminating it.
But seeing this and having Tommygo one to one when the bloater
(08:53):
was terrifying. There was a lot of instances in
this episode where it was like aticking clock almost.
The storm was approaching. And so they had all of these
things going on with a Blizzard.I mean, we get it.
It sucks, yeah. What did what did you think of
the final moments of Tommy and the Bloater?
How did that feel for you? I, I mean, I, I think I knew he
(09:15):
wasn't going to die. Even just not knowing from the
game or whatever, because we've seen scenes in the trailers.
I thought it was still effectivebecause like, whoa, I mean, you
see the, the gauge on the gas tank go down as he's shooting it
and it's like still walking. It's still walking towards him.
I liked it. I think it was a very like,
intense scene. And Tommy tried, he tried and
(09:37):
tried and he won in the end. But yeah.
I, I, I'm so grateful that he did win in the end.
I mean, it only took a flamethrower and probably like,
you know, 500 bullets to finallystop it, but that thing was
hungry for Tommy. Well, I like that.
He also he saw it look at Maria and he said, no, he's like, if
(09:59):
anything, I'm going to make surethat she doesn't have to deal
with this. But Speaking of Maria up there,
which I mean, fantastic, very MVP moment on your left moment,
letting the dogs out and then the dogs essentially making them
win because dogs are amazing. We still don't deserve dogs, but
I liked that. I, I think it was at the top of
(10:19):
this moment where it shows somebody getting bit and he
hands the gun to somebody else like he knew he's like, I'm bit
like. Take care of devastating that.
Was an insane detail that I don't think I needed, but it's
just a layer of like these people understand well.
Yes. And it's very much for the
greater good right of going. I'm not going to risk everyone
else, just do it because we knowwhat's going to happen here.
(10:43):
What did you make of the infected?
Kind of, because we see Abby. Abby essentially is the one that
makes this horde bigger because she steps into the nest and
awakens all of them. What did you think of that whole
sequence with that clicker? Just slowly like.
Yeah, Abby, Abby's the MVP of this episode as far as most
people, problem maker, because she really just starts some shit
(11:06):
here. And so we, like you said, we get
that that seed is planted at thebeginning of the episode,
talking about the infected usingthe other infected as a way to
stay warm and survive. And so when she lands down
there, you just know it's bad. And I wasn't sure how many were
going to come out, but damn. Like I think that mountain was
(11:28):
basically infected well. So she really, she awakened like
one pod of them, I guess. And then as Joel, Dina and Abby
are going to where Dina's group is, there's another group
coming. Abby's Abby's group.
No, there's there was two groupsof infected that met up and one
started going towards Jackson and the group that was following
(11:48):
them turned to go with them, right.
So that's why there was no infected really following them
towards the end. They all went towards Jackson,
but there's two groups of they're just would would they
just piling up? They're like, oh, here comes
winter. Let's all like Huddle.
In they're like little bears. They just go hibernate if they
eat too much. But you know, we again see in
this instance how the infected are evolving, right?
(12:12):
And so, so much of this episode is about how the slim chance of
something happening could alter the story.
And so when we first see this, it's like, of course, she falls
and she unleashes them. But then at that same time,
someone in Jackson happens to open that pipe and hit those
other tendrils, which lets them all know that communication goes
(12:35):
through that they should go there.
Instead, there's a lot of instances in this episode where
like, in particular, like, 'cause you know, we know Joel
dies in this episode, right? If anything would have changed,
there's so many instances where like Joel didn't have to die,
but every single thing that happened kept leading to that.
The fact that Abby, they talked in the beginning and they're
(12:55):
like, what's our plan? Even if we did get into the
city, how are we going to know where Joel is?
Of course, Joel just happens to be the only patrol that goes
into her sights. Get out of here.
And, you know, they, they were really playing with us in this
episode because we're in the dark like Ellie at the beginning
of this, who's looking for Joel in a sense.
And he's already gone. So we just know that he's gone.
(13:18):
And we don't know when he's going to pop up.
And of course, he pops up to save Abby.
I, I really think that she is now we're kind of, I was trying
to put off the Joel conversation, which will still
putting it off at some point. I'm putting it off as long as
possible. There's a lot of instances where
it's like they purposely kept Ellie and Joel away from each
other, like constantly throughout the, I mean, it's 2
(13:39):
episodes, right? But it was the last time we saw
them. They were fighting.
It does seem like when we pick up with Abby with Ellie today
that she's like, I want to go ona patrol with Joel.
I think that we're missing a scene and we'll see it later
because when she came back from the dance from the New Year's
thing, it didn't really show theend of that.
(13:59):
But it seems like whatever happened that night, maybe they
had a conversation or something and they made-up and some or had
an understanding. I don't know if made-up, but the
fact that she said I want to go on patrol with Joel, there's
some development, some growth had happened that we didn't see
and I don't like that. Why don't you like that?
Because it's. Going to be sad.
Oh yeah. Because he died and then we're
(14:19):
going to see them come to some type of understanding and it's
going to be like, cool. Well, at least though I remember
you had said when we had watchedthe first episode that I hope
those aren't her last words to him when she yells at him at the
dance. So if there is that scene there,
at least we know that there's something was mended between
them. But you know, before we get to
(14:40):
Abby, I do want to talk about the scene with Seth that we see
where he apologizes for what he at the dance.
And I don't know necessarily what Maria was trying to achieve
in that, other than just trying to keep the peace.
But when something like that is said, that's not easily
forgivable. Well, I.
Love what Ellie said and it's 100% true and don't let anybody
(15:01):
ever tell you otherwise. Is she said.
Oh, because people haven't said things other than when they're
drunk or thought things prior towhen they've had a few drinks.
Like, yeah, you have thought that it just came out, so
whatever. I mean, the good thing is that
he did listen to Maria. He did apologize to Ellie.
So there is some understanding there.
And I think that's like the basis of like at least try.
(15:23):
Sure. Yeah, learn, learn from this.
And you know, also with Ellie's journey here we learn more about
Eugene, Yeah as well, who had a 711 grow house for for weed.
This is one of the changes that they made in this.
I you hate librarians, you took out the library.
That's right, I got excited. Fine, whatever.
(15:43):
It's OK. Books.
Wow. Yeah, I'll, I'll go more into
like the changes and stuff afterwe talk about the Abby stuff.
But I did like that we we keep getting these instances of
Eugene, right. I they're hammering it in like
don't forget about Eugene. Like there's an episode coming
up which is like, we get it. But I like that Ellie is now
(16:03):
finding out a little bit more about Eugene, even though she's
obviously known him. She knew what Joel had to do, so
her learning a little bit more, but I mean in a 711, all that
weed, fantastic. I mean, that's a party.
It's the end of the world. What else are you going to do?
Also, Jesse, chill out. He's like, you can't take all
that, like chill out. Eugene isn't around anymore.
(16:26):
He's not going to know his stockis gone.
Yeah, for sure. All right, let's go up the
mountain. Yeah, Jesse really foreshadowed
this episode because she said, oh, do you think that Storm's
coming here? And he's like, no, it's going to
stay up in the mountains. Yes.
Who died in the mountains? Yeah, there's a hell of a storm
in the mountains. So 1 noticeable change from the
game to the show was that the groups right when Joel does die,
(16:52):
when he goes to the cabin with Abby's group, it's Tommy that's
with him. Dina and Ellie are together,
Jesse's like down in Jackson. I can sort of understand the
changes in the group that they did.
It did make me more nervous thatDina was with Joel in this
moment because then it kind of opened it up to uncertainty of
like, oh, I don't, I don't know what's going to happen here
(17:14):
because I thought I knew but y'all are changing things on me
and this is too emotional for you to change it on me.
Seeing Abby crawl under the fence.
Loved that scene. I thought it was just
structurally amazing. And then as soon as that hand
comes out with that watch, I waslike, oh, no, here we go.
Yeah. They made sure you saw that
(17:34):
watch just taking a step back when Abby's crawling under that
fence and that one infected is pushing so hard to grab her that
the chain link goes through his hand.
That was gnarly. That was gnarly.
What are they saying about handsin this episode?
You. Know they're expendable,
Exactly. Exactly.
But yeah, seeing Joel, it's justand and they keep his face off
(17:54):
screen, but we know that it's him.
And just from that moment on, it's pure devastation.
Yeah, I, I think the the last thing that Joel sees aside from
Ellie when she does end up making it into the the room is
Jackson on fire and he doesn't know if his brother is alive,
which is so I, you know, they didn't show a lot of Joel
(18:16):
getting killed, which is fine. I think I don't need to see it.
I saw it in the game enough. But just those extra layers of
he looked over when he knew something was up, when he knew
Abby was like upset at him aboutsomething and it was going to
get serious. He looked over at Jackson and
it's on fire and I'm like, this sucks.
This sucks. Like this dude tried.
(18:36):
He tried. He made a bad decision.
Not excusing it made a bad decision.
It's like, damn, OK. And, and I think that's what's
so upsetting for Joel is that Joel try so hard to take care of
those that are around him. And in that moment, he's looking
behind him, seeing his home for the last five years, burning,
(18:57):
not knowing what's going on withhis brother.
And in this moment, knowing I don't know where Ellie is.
And I think these are my last moments and I have no control
over it. And I can't help her anymore.
Yeah, I mean, at least he's it'sjust him that's there.
Maybe. But yeah, he doesn't know where
she is, what's happening there, why it's on fire.
How did you feel about Abby's motivations here, like when with
(19:21):
her group? Because her group very much
seems like I'm kind of on board with this, but like it's a
little a step too far in some instances.
I think that Abby maybe doesn't even realize how much rage she
had built up in her and kind of made these, I don't want to say
well-intentioned plans with these plans of, well, we're just
(19:44):
going to kill Joel and we're notgoing to hurt anyone else.
And everyone's on board. And it almost seems like, you
know, Mel and one or the other part, people in the group are
kind of purely there for medicalneeds and are just there to
sedate anyone who's around, not kill anyone.
And when they're watching her cross the line, I think for them
it feels like blurring the line of right and wrong, blurring the
(20:07):
line of this revenge that she has to get because she's taking
it too far. She did something where, you
know, they she had told Mel to sedate Dina, unlike prior to
sleep, which I think was good for Dina's sake.
But Dina did hear everything. She knows her name, she knows
where they're from. She she knows a lot of
information before they put her out.
So that's a good thing for Ellieand for the revenge sake on that
(20:30):
side. But to see, you know, I'm I'm
curious on what they thought wasgoing to happen because there
was moments where she kind of insinuates that like she could
kill Dina and she was like serious about it and like her
group was kind of like, wait, you only said Joel.
So I think there's that that scariness of like, oh, wait,
(20:53):
we're not totally sure how far Abby's going to go with this.
I mean, she was doing she was like gearing up to do this for
five years. She was just festering in the
hatred we saw at the beginning of this episode, like AI would
say like a PTSD nightmare almostwhere she's her now self is in
past self going to see her father dead on the floor in the
hospital. And she's seeing that.
(21:13):
So it's like that's just all, that's the mind space she's been
in this entire time. So she's had a lot, lot of anger
building up in her. Absolutely.
And I think that once that can is opened, there's no way to
stop it from completely spillingover.
It just so happens that she sortof has these 4, you know,
conscious consciousness of people going there to pull her
(21:38):
back, right? Whereas if she was by herself,
it might not have been that. It might have been even worse.
I yeah, maybe because she just, she was like, oh, I'm going to
use the shotgun to bust your kneecap out.
Oh, there's some golf clubs. Let me use these.
Yeah, OK. That was a pristine looking set
of golf clubs, let me tell. You.
Well, they didn't need it in theapocalypse.
(21:58):
Of anything to survive that lodge, it was those golf clubs,
Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's tough.
I mean, to see Joel be tortured.It's, you know, it, it's funny.
I just watched a bloater get torched.
I watched dogs RIP out the infected throats.
I'm like, yeah, I get them. But when it's Joel, it's
(22:18):
visceral. It's almost more quiet.
It's more intimate. And therefore it's more terror.
It it, it's just that much more scary.
Yeah, I there was moments where I think the interesting thing
with this situation or this scene and how they played it
when they did it in like the daytime, which is a stark
difference from the game. And I'm, I'm curious on what
(22:39):
that decision was maybe just to like, bring this horror to
light. I, I'm trying to like form words
of like, I thought this was deeply unsettling and deeply
sad, even though I knew it was going to happen, even though
I've experienced it before. And the same beats did happen,
just a little, maybe slightly different.
(22:59):
There's just some things about, I think this scene where Abby is
fully telling her motivations. And I think that's very odd and
to me almost takes away from I, I guess the, the horror of it,
the what is happening, the, the violence of it, because nobody
(23:20):
here should be, nobody should know.
Like, Joel doesn't know in the game, Joel dies not knowing why
this person killed him. And I think that is so deeply
sad and unsettling that to take that away is almost like, OK,
like, I guess that's a comfort, right?
But us as audiences know, and the entire length of the game,
you don't find that out until way later.
(23:42):
You don't know her motivation. So I think the hand holdiness of
that is odd. And I don't think I like it
because now we're almost in the seat of like, I'm supposed to
sympathize with her, but becauseI know her motivations now, it's
not impactful. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I, I see what you're saying.
(24:03):
I do think it's interesting though, because as someone who
played the game, I think you do have that other perspective to
compare it to. And so if something was done and
you really liked it and not seeing that play out the way
that you liked it, I think that can be disappointing.
So I definitely understand that now.
Me as someone who didn't play the game, to me it just felt
(24:24):
more like a villain monologuing.Right.
It's like that weird cheap. I agree.
It's like that weird thing that villains always do.
I think you see it more in cartoons than you do in live
action. So.
You see it in superhero stuff all the time.
That's fair. But this is not superhero,
right? That this is not that type of
(24:44):
show. So to see that monologuing, I
think was definitely a surprise.Although I did like that it gave
Joel one last time to kind of beJoel and say just get it over
with already. Like shut the hell up.
He. Said shut the fuck up.
Yeah, get it over with already. This is taking too long.
Yeah, I yeah, I mean, I I get it.
(25:06):
One of the changes I think that they did really well was
swapping Dina for Tommy. Tommy, we know why he wasn't
there. He had to go defend Jackson,
which I think was a cool thing to do.
I don't know of like having these two things in the same
episode was necessarily the bestdecision because even though I
felt like it was all like rampedup and it was all high and we
got this really huge emotional ending.
(25:29):
I'm, it just kind of felt almostlike I, I would like to sit with
this and then also have this, but it just felt too, I don't
know, too lopsided to me almost.I think it worked overall.
I just think I was more like, I don't know, like I know what's
coming. So like, I couldn't really sit
with the Jackson stuff. Does that make sense?
(25:49):
Yeah, I understand. But in the apocalypse, baby,
there's no controlling it. Of course, it's not mayhem at
all times. But the people wrote this.
And I, and I think that there's,you know, something there of
showing violence can take many forms.
And it can be something as scaryas a horde of infected breaking
(26:10):
through a wall, or it can be something as quiet as someone
torturing someone to death. Quiet.
Think of that. There were how many people in
that room and only one of them was making a noise.
Ellie heard them from downstairsand she came up.
Yeah, No, I I get what you mean.Yeah, I think there was one
thing that I did like, because they separately change the
(26:30):
groups is in the in the game, itmade no sense of why Joel and
Tommy were saying each other's names.
And that's how Abby knew that that was Joel.
And so in this instance, when Joel takes Abby into that
warehouse, wherever they were, Deena's calling for Joel because
she didn't know where he was. And then it made sense.
So I was like, OK, I like that change.
(26:50):
Like then Abby was like, oh, shit, so that was a good change.
I don't know. I just think that like us like
fully laying out all her motivation in the second episode
is, is odd. I think it's odd for that
character. That's just, that's just me.
That was like my biggest gripe with it was like, oh, oh, oh,
OK. Like we're not going to get that
emotional journey of like, I don't like just nobody knowing
(27:13):
why. Like we all know now.
So like, OK, go get her Ellie. You know, and thank God for
that, Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, that but going finallywhen Ellie does get there and
she gets pinned down and Joel and her are just looking at each
other. Woof.
(27:33):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really sad.
I mean, to have to have her crawling, crying for Joel,
telling him to get up. And then that moment when he
actually does try to get up, like she sees that there's still
some life in him and he tries and her face changes and she's
like, oh, he's still alive. And then, you know, Abby, Abby
finishes the job. But the final moment of her
(27:54):
crawling to Joel and then layingon top of him and then also
hearing Ashley Johnson, who voiced Ellie sing through the
valley over this. Why would it was already sad, I
didn't need that. This.
But you know it's fine. Yeah, it was traumatizing, I
think. I mean, I was kind of in shock.
(28:15):
And I'm going to be honest, I didn't really sleep well last
night just because it was so violent and so terrible.
And it's rare that your main character is killed in the
second episode of the second season.
It's very much a, I mean, Game of Thrones, right?
In the first season of Game of Thrones and the season finale,
(28:35):
Ned Stark dies. And you as a viewer, or even a
reader of this book is like, oh,this is going to be a character
that is throughout this whole thing.
But in reality, this is the character that ignites
everything and sets everything in motion.
So unfortunately, that's this character for Joel.
He sets everything in motion forthis.
It's very much like, you know, Joel created this thing for
(28:58):
Abby. Abby created the same exact
thing for Ellie. So it's just repeating itself.
Joel took away her father. Abby took away her father.
I mean, where are we going to stop?
This cycle of revenge just keepsgoing and I think that the
questions that we're dealing with here are do 2 wrongs make a
right? No, you know 2 wrongs just make
(29:19):
more wrongs and more anger. And here we are again, in the
same situation, but now we're just seeing it through Ellie's
eyes. Yeah, I I do like that Dina was
there to experience it, though, because they're not really an
item in the show at the moment. In the game, they're the ones
that go to the library, they getnaked, they have a great time
together and they become an item.
(29:40):
So for Dina to go with Ellie to find Abby makes sense because
it's like, they're a couple. And this now she's like, what's
the right word? Like she experienced it, like it
happened to her, too. So she's going to have that
motivation to be like, yeah, Ellie, let's go.
Like, I also want to, you know, avenge him or whatever.
(30:01):
She has stakes in this now as well.
And then of course, just as the song is playing and they're on
the horses. I don't want to talk about.
It and Ellie looks. Back.
It's fine. She still had the blood of Joel
on her face. It's fine.
Breaking Her ribs are broken. It's fine.
And this next episode I'm actually looking forward to
(30:23):
because I want to see the emotional stakes.
I want to see how everyone is affected by this death.
Yeah, we see that scene of Elliewaking up screaming, which I
would too. I, you know, also fuck Abby for
being like, you know what? You are really handsome.
We know it's Pedro Pascal. Of course he's handsome.
Shut up. And then she took that away from
him. Yeah, she she made him not
(30:44):
pretty. Thanks.
Yeah, I, I don't know. This episode fucking sucked,
man. Like emotionally, like it's, of
course it was coming. I I'm, I think we theorized a
little bit in the first episode,like when was it going to
happen? When would we think would be the
right moment? I think I had thrown around a
little bit, like, no, maybe theywere going to keep him a little
bit. I'm glad they did it now.
(31:06):
You know, I would have been OK with them doing it in the first
episode. Not like, OK with it, but like
understanding that they did it in the beginning because there's
just so much more we have to getto and we can't do that
unfortunately, until Joel's out of the picture.
So to take that and also there'slike expectations between fans.
Like I, that's all I would be thinking about.
(31:28):
Like if we were in like episode 6 and it hadn't happened yet,
I'd be like, OK, like, you know,you're kind of pissing me off
now. Like I know what's going to
happen, why hasn't happened. So I think it was smart for them
to do it as soon as they could that it happened and we have to
move on from here. But I think we're still going to
see him. We're going to get flashbacks.
(31:49):
Maybe they had a conversation that we'll see and it's just
going to break our heart all over again.
But yeah, where do we go from here?
There is so spoiler game, spoiler spoilers, more spoilers
in case you don't want to know. Something that's going to
potentially happen on the show, the people in that group or do
come back in some form or fashion, like Ellie is going to
(32:11):
go after them. There's a there's a noticeable
omission and I'm not sure if it's going to happen like when
we find out about it, but Mel ispregnant during this.
So I thought it was an interesting thing to like not
talk about because the baby and everything like her pregnancy
plays a a part in it. So I'm curious if we'll find out
later or if they just didn't want to like throw another
(32:32):
thing. By the way, I'm pregnant.
There are definitely pieces thathave been laid out for us,
right? Like you said, Dina has is a
part of this now. She saw the patch, the WLF
patch, which I'm just calling Wolf.
I don't know if that's. Correct.
Washington Liberation Front there.
You go so, you know, that piece,that puzzle piece is set out for
us, for them to explore. I do think it's, you know,
(32:52):
something to think about of a lot of times when we're in an
apocalyptic world, the main point of the story is to stop
the apocalypse or to cure the disease.
But I feel like that is such a thing that doesn't exist in this
world. And now what we're really
looking for is just revenge. Yeah, 'cause Joel killed them.
(33:13):
Wow, so Noah really is on the side of the fireflies.
Good to know, no? I'm saying there is no cure
being made because Joel killed them.
He killed the entire hospital ofthem.
Oh, yeah, OK, this is, this is fun.
It's fine. Yeah, we're going to go cry some
more. I know, like, I'm sorry, like I
(33:34):
feel like this episode was kind of somber and it was again, like
trying to not give away the ending right up top when we're
talking about it. But like, I think we're all just
collectively kind of sad. And especially with stories this
effective, it's hard to be like,you know, whoo?
Plus, it's the world's baby Pedro Pascal.
I when he was casted, I was like, I'm going to have to see
(33:59):
him die again. He's.
The zaddy of all zaddies. Game of Thrones squished his
head. Yeah, they really, Yeah, a lot
of head stuff with this poor guy, his beautiful head.
I'm worried about Mr. Fantastic.No, it will stretch.
That's true. Take that.
Nobody can swish his head. Nobody can stab his head.
Only he can squish his head. Yeah, how about that?
Very excited for that. Oh OK, let us know what you
(34:21):
thought. Have this episode.
Are you looking forward to more?What are you doing to take care
of yourself after watching this episode?
I think I had said something on online of like.
To all the non gamers, welcome to the grief circle.
We're happy to have you. Yes, let us all hold hands and
cry I. Will say I'm very I'm kind of
proud of like the gamers of not spoiling it.
(34:44):
I, you know, there's of course people that just openly talked
about it, but I think collectively we all just really
wanted these new fans to experience it.
However they were going to do it.
But like, I don't know, I think it's kind of nice because
there's so many people that I was seeing online like Oh my
God, like this is what you guys experience as I guess yes for
(35:07):
over 5 years now, yes, we had tolive with this, but good job
guys. So we can all grieve together
now and move on. And so whatever form that takes,
yeah, I'm excited to see where Ellie goes from here.
But yeah, I guess till next time.
More rage. Yeah.
(35:27):
Goodbye. Bye.
Talk about infected. Look at my face.
I look like Joel at the end of this episode.
I have a chronic condition wheremy eye gets really swollen.
So if you're watching this, you're welcome.
Welcome to a Vita. Oh.
(00:23):
My God, the Pope is dead. Something else happens.
We haven't said a spoiler warning yet, but you know that
happens. My face looks like this.
We're talking about The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 2.
I'm Derek, and that's very pretty, Noah.
My eye is not swollen, no. It's not.
No, it's not. Yes, episode 2 of The Last of Us
(00:47):
is giving very much like series premiere energy.
There is spoilers, there is lotsof tough things to talk about.
I am trying to hold it together at this moment.
So follow us. Subscribe to those amazing,
wonderful things that you normally do.
Give a review comment below. Did you love this episode?
Did you hate it? What did you not like?
What did you like? We need to have a therapy
(01:07):
session. So spoilers, spoilers, spoilers
ahead. Let us officially take a bite of
The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 2, Through the Valley, written
by Neil Druckman and directed byMark Mylod.
Jackson is walloped with a stormof bloater size proportions.
The safe hold is broken by a horde of hibernating infected
(01:27):
and an emergency plan is initiated.
In a kismet moment, Joel saves Abby, but Abby does not return
the favor. So, general thoughts?
Sir, I don't know what do you think?
What do you what? What does anybody think?
Love it, couldn't wait. For it, no SO.
Excited for it to happen. I think this was the thing that
(01:50):
a lot of fans were dreading whenthey said this was going to be
ATV show. We all said hell yeah.
Oh no, because of this episode, because of this moment.
So how were they going to changeit?
How were they going to do it? Because we talked about in our
first review or first discussionof this the season so far that
they changed a lot of things that didn't stop here.
(02:13):
I think that they did some amazing things in this episode
and then there's some choices that I'm confused about.
I'm not a big fan of handholdingstuff, so I thought it was
surprising that they did some ofthat here.
But we got some like big action set pieces that were bigger and
grander than they were in the first season.
(02:35):
They promised us more infected. I think we got enough, like if
we didn't have any infected for the next two episodes, I think
they failed their quota at some point.
But I think All in all, it was agreat episode of television.
Yeah, there were a lot of movingparts to this episode.
And what I thought was really cool about it was that there was
I in my mind, there was just this loop of up and down the
(02:58):
mountain, right? And I think that a lot of people
were making that loop. I think a lot of infected were
making that loop. And I think it just kind of kept
all this action. So it felt so intense, even
though there it was happening intwo separate places.
So the whole episode was just like a nail biter of an episode.
I mean, literal hordes of infected here.
(03:21):
And I think all of the technicalpieces that came together to
create this episode were executed really well.
Yeah, this is the episode, right, that I think is going to
really set the groundwork to what the rest of the series is
going to be about. And this is the catalyst.
Again, it was the end of the season 1 and this one just puts
Ellie in this particular trajectory that will change the
(03:44):
course of everybody's lives in this in the show.
So one of the big changes and I would say maybe 2/3 of this
episode, there's the siege of Jackson, right?
We hear throughout this episode that there's, you know, infected
that are insulating themselves. They're smarter.
We knew that those roots had some of those cordycep tendrils
coming through there. How is all that going to play
(04:05):
out? Well, a giant big action set
piece that gave me like feelingsof Game of Thrones, which I was
not mad about. What did you make of this?
Like I guess grand almost war battle scene that we didn't see
in the first season at all. I well, like I said, I think
that the action we as viewers kind of needed something like
(04:27):
this and I think it was really well done.
One of the things that I think came of this that I really
enjoyed was seeing Tommy and Maria as leaders in Jackson
Hole. I think they really held their
own here. They managed to work together
without actually being together,still having each other's backs.
I think it showed them not only as leaders, but also as a
(04:50):
couple, as a relationship of P2,people who love each other, who
have literally been through the end of the world and could see
it all end in this moment. So as far as their character
development, you know, because with Tommy last season, he
really wasn't around that much. So to see him take more of a
center stage role in this scene,I really appreciate it.
Yeah, and you get to see how, you know, it's one thing to see
(05:13):
these people 20-30 years after the apocalypse happened, and
they're all they are. They're already prepared, but
how are they actually enacting those things that they prepared?
It was really cool to see in thein the game, we hear about
Jackson getting threats and things that happened, but you
never see it because in the gameat this point, because we know
what happens, they're gone, theyleave Jackson.
(05:34):
So like Jackson's kind of like in the review at this point.
So seeing like even just the thebarrels of gas that get dropped
down, how the fence was fortified, how they're going to
stand in the streets on Main Street with the flamethrowers,
the dogs being on the roofs, going up high ground, people
down below. It was really smart.
I like seeing all of those things where it's like, oh OK,
(05:57):
that could possibly work. And I think it's really, it was
very scary because there's only so much you can do to protect
yourself. You know, they did have this
really great plan in place, but watching things fall apart,
right? Even like you said, the barrels
going down and starting the fires, it only stopped so many
of them. Once a bloater came into town.
(06:18):
Absolutely. And seeing these big giant
wooden walls crumble at the hands of that bloater, it just
showed how even though they feelnot that necessarily advance,
but they feel modern as far as acity is concerned in these
conditions. There's only so much in their
control. And I, you know, I think that
that speaks to life itself and how you can prepare and prepare
(06:41):
and prepare, but you can't prepare for everything.
Well, and I what this episode really does too is it shows that
it's not just our main characters that are in trouble,
that other people are in troubleas well.
So I think from a world perspective and understanding
the costs and stakes of this world, we needed something like
this. Because seeing those, those
women, children, elderly, the the civilians just down below
(07:05):
cowering and hearing the door being shook, that's scary.
You know, you don't want these kids getting hurt.
And it's like, stop having kids.Like there's too many babies.
There was there was 1 scene where I was like, OK that's like
10 kids like. That's like, that's like the
quiet place. You know that like the big thing
of the Quiet Place? It's like, why did they have a
baby? Granted it's like 30 years but
(07:26):
still like Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
And I think, you know, I'm watching this.
You can't help but put yourself in in that place, in that
situation. And I'm going, oh, I'd be
useless. I'd be so useless in this entire
situation. But you know, I think hopefully
adrenaline takes over at some point.
You have no choice but to fight.And that's what I love so much
(07:47):
about Tommy here. You know, he he starts off kind
of at the top of the gates leading everyone.
When that fails, when they breakthrough, he ends up in the
street and he's kind of a line of these flamethrower soldiers
and they run away. Well, OK, I'm just going to.
So like while I did say it was cool to see their plans in
(08:08):
action, some of them I was like,what did you?
Maybe they didn't think there would be this many, but when you
saw that there was like thousands coming towards you, I
don't think four people with flamethrowers was going to do
much. Maybe hopefully like fish in a
barrel, kind of shooting fish ina barrel would have helped and
it did. But like they got overran so
quickly, which I think just evenshows that even though they've
(08:30):
advanced in some way and they have all of these precautions in
place, it doesn't matter once you get overwhelmed like that,
the numbers are just too great. And especially throwing a
bloater in there. I like seeing a bloater in the
more daylight. I guess you know, before we saw
him in that the very likes Narrow St. was dark.
There was only fire really illuminating it.
But seeing this and having Tommygo one to one when the bloater
(08:53):
was terrifying. There was a lot of instances in
this episode where it was like aticking clock almost.
The storm was approaching. And so they had all of these
things going on with a Blizzard.I mean, we get it.
It sucks, yeah. What did what did you think of
the final moments of Tommy and the Bloater?
How did that feel for you? I, I mean, I, I think I knew he
(09:15):
wasn't going to die. Even just not knowing from the
game or whatever, because we've seen scenes in the trailers.
I thought it was still effectivebecause like, whoa, I mean, you
see the, the gauge on the gas tank go down as he's shooting it
and it's like still walking. It's still walking towards him.
I liked it. I think it was a very like,
intense scene. And Tommy tried, he tried and
(09:37):
tried and he won in the end. But yeah.
I, I, I'm so grateful that he did win in the end.
I mean, it only took a flamethrower and probably like,
you know, 500 bullets to finallystop it, but that thing was
hungry for Tommy. Well, I like that.
He also he saw it look at Maria and he said, no, he's like, if
(09:59):
anything, I'm going to make surethat she doesn't have to deal
with this. But Speaking of Maria up there,
which I mean, fantastic, very MVP moment on your left moment,
letting the dogs out and then the dogs essentially making them
win because dogs are amazing. We still don't deserve dogs, but
I liked that. I, I think it was at the top of
(10:19):
this moment where it shows somebody getting bit and he
hands the gun to somebody else like he knew he's like, I'm bit
like. Take care of devastating that.
Was an insane detail that I don't think I needed, but it's
just a layer of like these people understand well.
Yes. And it's very much for the
greater good right of going. I'm not going to risk everyone
else, just do it because we knowwhat's going to happen here.
(10:43):
What did you make of the infected?
Kind of, because we see Abby. Abby essentially is the one that
makes this horde bigger because she steps into the nest and
awakens all of them. What did you think of that whole
sequence with that clicker? Just slowly like.
Yeah, Abby, Abby's the MVP of this episode as far as most
people, problem maker, because she really just starts some shit
(11:06):
here. And so we, like you said, we get
that that seed is planted at thebeginning of the episode,
talking about the infected usingthe other infected as a way to
stay warm and survive. And so when she lands down
there, you just know it's bad. And I wasn't sure how many were
going to come out, but damn. Like I think that mountain was
(11:28):
basically infected well. So she really, she awakened like
one pod of them, I guess. And then as Joel, Dina and Abby
are going to where Dina's group is, there's another group
coming. Abby's Abby's group.
No, there's there was two groupsof infected that met up and one
started going towards Jackson and the group that was following
(11:48):
them turned to go with them, right.
So that's why there was no infected really following them
towards the end. They all went towards Jackson,
but there's two groups of they're just would would they
just piling up? They're like, oh, here comes
winter. Let's all like Huddle.
In they're like little bears. They just go hibernate if they
eat too much. But you know, we again see in
this instance how the infected are evolving, right?
(12:12):
And so, so much of this episode is about how the slim chance of
something happening could alter the story.
And so when we first see this, it's like, of course, she falls
and she unleashes them. But then at that same time,
someone in Jackson happens to open that pipe and hit those
other tendrils, which lets them all know that communication goes
(12:35):
through that they should go there.
Instead, there's a lot of instances in this episode where
like, in particular, like, 'cause you know, we know Joel
dies in this episode, right? If anything would have changed,
there's so many instances where like Joel didn't have to die,
but every single thing that happened kept leading to that.
The fact that Abby, they talked in the beginning and they're
(12:55):
like, what's our plan? Even if we did get into the
city, how are we going to know where Joel is?
Of course, Joel just happens to be the only patrol that goes
into her sights. Get out of here.
And, you know, they, they were really playing with us in this
episode because we're in the dark like Ellie at the beginning
of this, who's looking for Joel in a sense.
And he's already gone. So we just know that he's gone.
(13:18):
And we don't know when he's going to pop up.
And of course, he pops up to save Abby.
I, I really think that she is now we're kind of, I was trying
to put off the Joel conversation, which will still
putting it off at some point. I'm putting it off as long as
possible. There's a lot of instances where
it's like they purposely kept Ellie and Joel away from each
other, like constantly throughout the, I mean, it's 2
(13:39):
episodes, right? But it was the last time we saw
them. They were fighting.
It does seem like when we pick up with Abby with Ellie today
that she's like, I want to go ona patrol with Joel.
I think that we're missing a scene and we'll see it later
because when she came back from the dance from the New Year's
thing, it didn't really show theend of that.
(13:59):
But it seems like whatever happened that night, maybe they
had a conversation or something and they made-up and some or had
an understanding. I don't know if made-up, but the
fact that she said I want to go on patrol with Joel, there's
some development, some growth had happened that we didn't see
and I don't like that. Why don't you like that?
Because it's. Going to be sad.
Oh yeah. Because he died and then we're
(14:19):
going to see them come to some type of understanding and it's
going to be like, cool. Well, at least though I remember
you had said when we had watchedthe first episode that I hope
those aren't her last words to him when she yells at him at the
dance. So if there is that scene there,
at least we know that there's something was mended between
them. But you know, before we get to
(14:40):
Abby, I do want to talk about the scene with Seth that we see
where he apologizes for what he at the dance.
And I don't know necessarily what Maria was trying to achieve
in that, other than just trying to keep the peace.
But when something like that is said, that's not easily
forgivable. Well, I.
Love what Ellie said and it's 100% true and don't let anybody
(15:01):
ever tell you otherwise. Is she said.
Oh, because people haven't said things other than when they're
drunk or thought things prior towhen they've had a few drinks.
Like, yeah, you have thought that it just came out, so
whatever. I mean, the good thing is that
he did listen to Maria. He did apologize to Ellie.
So there is some understanding there.
And I think that's like the basis of like at least try.
(15:23):
Sure. Yeah, learn, learn from this.
And you know, also with Ellie's journey here we learn more about
Eugene, Yeah as well, who had a 711 grow house for for weed.
This is one of the changes that they made in this.
I you hate librarians, you took out the library.
That's right, I got excited. Fine, whatever.
(15:43):
It's OK. Books.
Wow. Yeah, I'll, I'll go more into
like the changes and stuff afterwe talk about the Abby stuff.
But I did like that we we keep getting these instances of
Eugene, right. I they're hammering it in like
don't forget about Eugene. Like there's an episode coming
up which is like, we get it. But I like that Ellie is now
(16:03):
finding out a little bit more about Eugene, even though she's
obviously known him. She knew what Joel had to do, so
her learning a little bit more, but I mean in a 711, all that
weed, fantastic. I mean, that's a party.
It's the end of the world. What else are you going to do?
Also, Jesse, chill out. He's like, you can't take all
that, like chill out. Eugene isn't around anymore.
(16:26):
He's not going to know his stockis gone.
Yeah, for sure. All right, let's go up the
mountain. Yeah, Jesse really foreshadowed
this episode because she said, oh, do you think that Storm's
coming here? And he's like, no, it's going to
stay up in the mountains. Yes.
Who died in the mountains? Yeah, there's a hell of a storm
in the mountains. So 1 noticeable change from the
game to the show was that the groups right when Joel does die,
(16:52):
when he goes to the cabin with Abby's group, it's Tommy that's
with him. Dina and Ellie are together,
Jesse's like down in Jackson. I can sort of understand the
changes in the group that they did.
It did make me more nervous thatDina was with Joel in this
moment because then it kind of opened it up to uncertainty of
like, oh, I don't, I don't know what's going to happen here
(17:14):
because I thought I knew but y'all are changing things on me
and this is too emotional for you to change it on me.
Seeing Abby crawl under the fence.
Loved that scene. I thought it was just
structurally amazing. And then as soon as that hand
comes out with that watch, I waslike, oh, no, here we go.
Yeah. They made sure you saw that
(17:34):
watch just taking a step back when Abby's crawling under that
fence and that one infected is pushing so hard to grab her that
the chain link goes through his hand.
That was gnarly. That was gnarly.
What are they saying about handsin this episode?
You. Know they're expendable,
Exactly. Exactly.
But yeah, seeing Joel, it's justand and they keep his face off
(17:54):
screen, but we know that it's him.
And just from that moment on, it's pure devastation.
Yeah, I, I think the the last thing that Joel sees aside from
Ellie when she does end up making it into the the room is
Jackson on fire and he doesn't know if his brother is alive,
which is so I, you know, they didn't show a lot of Joel
(18:16):
getting killed, which is fine. I think I don't need to see it.
I saw it in the game enough. But just those extra layers of
he looked over when he knew something was up, when he knew
Abby was like upset at him aboutsomething and it was going to
get serious. He looked over at Jackson and
it's on fire and I'm like, this sucks.
This sucks. Like this dude tried.
(18:36):
He tried. He made a bad decision.
Not excusing it made a bad decision.
It's like, damn, OK. And, and I think that's what's
so upsetting for Joel is that Joel try so hard to take care of
those that are around him. And in that moment, he's looking
behind him, seeing his home for the last five years, burning,
(18:57):
not knowing what's going on withhis brother.
And in this moment, knowing I don't know where Ellie is.
And I think these are my last moments and I have no control
over it. And I can't help her anymore.
Yeah, I mean, at least he's it'sjust him that's there.
Maybe. But yeah, he doesn't know where
she is, what's happening there, why it's on fire.
How did you feel about Abby's motivations here, like when with
(19:21):
her group? Because her group very much
seems like I'm kind of on board with this, but like it's a
little a step too far in some instances.
I think that Abby maybe doesn't even realize how much rage she
had built up in her and kind of made these, I don't want to say
well-intentioned plans with these plans of, well, we're just
(19:44):
going to kill Joel and we're notgoing to hurt anyone else.
And everyone's on board. And it almost seems like, you
know, Mel and one or the other part, people in the group are
kind of purely there for medicalneeds and are just there to
sedate anyone who's around, not kill anyone.
And when they're watching her cross the line, I think for them
it feels like blurring the line of right and wrong, blurring the
(20:07):
line of this revenge that she has to get because she's taking
it too far. She did something where, you
know, they she had told Mel to sedate Dina, unlike prior to
sleep, which I think was good for Dina's sake.
But Dina did hear everything. She knows her name, she knows
where they're from. She she knows a lot of
information before they put her out.
So that's a good thing for Ellieand for the revenge sake on that
(20:30):
side. But to see, you know, I'm I'm
curious on what they thought wasgoing to happen because there
was moments where she kind of insinuates that like she could
kill Dina and she was like serious about it and like her
group was kind of like, wait, you only said Joel.
So I think there's that that scariness of like, oh, wait,
(20:53):
we're not totally sure how far Abby's going to go with this.
I mean, she was doing she was like gearing up to do this for
five years. She was just festering in the
hatred we saw at the beginning of this episode, like AI would
say like a PTSD nightmare almostwhere she's her now self is in
past self going to see her father dead on the floor in the
hospital. And she's seeing that.
(21:13):
So it's like that's just all, that's the mind space she's been
in this entire time. So she's had a lot, lot of anger
building up in her. Absolutely.
And I think that once that can is opened, there's no way to
stop it from completely spillingover.
It just so happens that she sortof has these 4, you know,
conscious consciousness of people going there to pull her
(21:38):
back, right? Whereas if she was by herself,
it might not have been that. It might have been even worse.
I yeah, maybe because she just, she was like, oh, I'm going to
use the shotgun to bust your kneecap out.
Oh, there's some golf clubs. Let me use these.
Yeah, OK. That was a pristine looking set
of golf clubs, let me tell. You.
Well, they didn't need it in theapocalypse.
(21:58):
Of anything to survive that lodge, it was those golf clubs,
Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's tough.
I mean, to see Joel be tortured.It's, you know, it, it's funny.
I just watched a bloater get torched.
I watched dogs RIP out the infected throats.
I'm like, yeah, I get them. But when it's Joel, it's
(22:18):
visceral. It's almost more quiet.
It's more intimate. And therefore it's more terror.
It it, it's just that much more scary.
Yeah, I there was moments where I think the interesting thing
with this situation or this scene and how they played it
when they did it in like the daytime, which is a stark
difference from the game. And I'm, I'm curious on what
(22:39):
that decision was maybe just to like, bring this horror to
light. I, I'm trying to like form words
of like, I thought this was deeply unsettling and deeply
sad, even though I knew it was going to happen, even though
I've experienced it before. And the same beats did happen,
just a little, maybe slightly different.
(22:59):
There's just some things about, I think this scene where Abby is
fully telling her motivations. And I think that's very odd and
to me almost takes away from I, I guess the, the horror of it,
the what is happening, the, the violence of it, because nobody
(23:20):
here should be, nobody should know.
Like, Joel doesn't know in the game, Joel dies not knowing why
this person killed him. And I think that is so deeply
sad and unsettling that to take that away is almost like, OK,
like, I guess that's a comfort, right?
But us as audiences know, and the entire length of the game,
you don't find that out until way later.
(23:42):
You don't know her motivation. So I think the hand holdiness of
that is odd. And I don't think I like it
because now we're almost in the seat of like, I'm supposed to
sympathize with her, but becauseI know her motivations now, it's
not impactful. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I, I see what you're saying.
(24:03):
I do think it's interesting though, because as someone who
played the game, I think you do have that other perspective to
compare it to. And so if something was done and
you really liked it and not seeing that play out the way
that you liked it, I think that can be disappointing.
So I definitely understand that now.
Me as someone who didn't play the game, to me it just felt
(24:24):
more like a villain monologuing.Right.
It's like that weird cheap. I agree.
It's like that weird thing that villains always do.
I think you see it more in cartoons than you do in live
action. So.
You see it in superhero stuff all the time.
That's fair. But this is not superhero,
right? That this is not that type of
(24:44):
show. So to see that monologuing, I
think was definitely a surprise.Although I did like that it gave
Joel one last time to kind of beJoel and say just get it over
with already. Like shut the hell up.
He. Said shut the fuck up.
Yeah, get it over with already. This is taking too long.
Yeah, I yeah, I mean, I I get it.
(25:06):
One of the changes I think that they did really well was
swapping Dina for Tommy. Tommy, we know why he wasn't
there. He had to go defend Jackson,
which I think was a cool thing to do.
I don't know of like having these two things in the same
episode was necessarily the bestdecision because even though I
felt like it was all like rampedup and it was all high and we
got this really huge emotional ending.
(25:29):
I'm, it just kind of felt almostlike I, I would like to sit with
this and then also have this, but it just felt too, I don't
know, too lopsided to me almost.I think it worked overall.
I just think I was more like, I don't know, like I know what's
coming. So like, I couldn't really sit
with the Jackson stuff. Does that make sense?
(25:49):
Yeah, I understand. But in the apocalypse, baby,
there's no controlling it. Of course, it's not mayhem at
all times. But the people wrote this.
And I, and I think that there's,you know, something there of
showing violence can take many forms.
And it can be something as scaryas a horde of infected breaking
(26:10):
through a wall, or it can be something as quiet as someone
torturing someone to death. Quiet.
Think of that. There were how many people in
that room and only one of them was making a noise.
Ellie heard them from downstairsand she came up.
Yeah, No, I I get what you mean.Yeah, I think there was one
thing that I did like, because they separately change the
(26:30):
groups is in the in the game, itmade no sense of why Joel and
Tommy were saying each other's names.
And that's how Abby knew that that was Joel.
And so in this instance, when Joel takes Abby into that
warehouse, wherever they were, Deena's calling for Joel because
she didn't know where he was. And then it made sense.
So I was like, OK, I like that change.
(26:50):
Like then Abby was like, oh, shit, so that was a good change.
I don't know. I just think that like us like
fully laying out all her motivation in the second episode
is, is odd. I think it's odd for that
character. That's just, that's just me.
That was like my biggest gripe with it was like, oh, oh, oh,
OK. Like we're not going to get that
emotional journey of like, I don't like just nobody knowing
(27:13):
why. Like we all know now.
So like, OK, go get her Ellie. You know, and thank God for
that, Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, that but going finallywhen Ellie does get there and
she gets pinned down and Joel and her are just looking at each
other. Woof.
(27:33):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really sad.
I mean, to have to have her crawling, crying for Joel,
telling him to get up. And then that moment when he
actually does try to get up, like she sees that there's still
some life in him and he tries and her face changes and she's
like, oh, he's still alive. And then, you know, Abby, Abby
finishes the job. But the final moment of her
(27:54):
crawling to Joel and then layingon top of him and then also
hearing Ashley Johnson, who voiced Ellie sing through the
valley over this. Why would it was already sad, I
didn't need that. This.
But you know it's fine. Yeah, it was traumatizing, I
think. I mean, I was kind of in shock.
(28:15):
And I'm going to be honest, I didn't really sleep well last
night just because it was so violent and so terrible.
And it's rare that your main character is killed in the
second episode of the second season.
It's very much a, I mean, Game of Thrones, right?
In the first season of Game of Thrones and the season finale,
(28:35):
Ned Stark dies. And you as a viewer, or even a
reader of this book is like, oh,this is going to be a character
that is throughout this whole thing.
But in reality, this is the character that ignites
everything and sets everything in motion.
So unfortunately, that's this character for Joel.
He sets everything in motion forthis.
It's very much like, you know, Joel created this thing for
(28:58):
Abby. Abby created the same exact
thing for Ellie. So it's just repeating itself.
Joel took away her father. Abby took away her father.
I mean, where are we going to stop?
This cycle of revenge just keepsgoing and I think that the
questions that we're dealing with here are do 2 wrongs make a
right? No, you know 2 wrongs just make
(29:19):
more wrongs and more anger. And here we are again, in the
same situation, but now we're just seeing it through Ellie's
eyes. Yeah, I I do like that Dina was
there to experience it, though, because they're not really an
item in the show at the moment. In the game, they're the ones
that go to the library, they getnaked, they have a great time
together and they become an item.
(29:40):
So for Dina to go with Ellie to find Abby makes sense because
it's like, they're a couple. And this now she's like, what's
the right word? Like she experienced it, like it
happened to her, too. So she's going to have that
motivation to be like, yeah, Ellie, let's go.
Like, I also want to, you know, avenge him or whatever.
(30:01):
She has stakes in this now as well.
And then of course, just as the song is playing and they're on
the horses. I don't want to talk about.
It and Ellie looks. Back.
It's fine. She still had the blood of Joel
on her face. It's fine.
Breaking Her ribs are broken. It's fine.
And this next episode I'm actually looking forward to
(30:23):
because I want to see the emotional stakes.
I want to see how everyone is affected by this death.
Yeah, we see that scene of Elliewaking up screaming, which I
would too. I, you know, also fuck Abby for
being like, you know what? You are really handsome.
We know it's Pedro Pascal. Of course he's handsome.
Shut up. And then she took that away from
him. Yeah, she she made him not
(30:44):
pretty. Thanks.
Yeah, I, I don't know. This episode fucking sucked,
man. Like emotionally, like it's, of
course it was coming. I I'm, I think we theorized a
little bit in the first episode,like when was it going to
happen? When would we think would be the
right moment? I think I had thrown around a
little bit, like, no, maybe theywere going to keep him a little
bit. I'm glad they did it now.
(31:06):
You know, I would have been OK with them doing it in the first
episode. Not like, OK with it, but like
understanding that they did it in the beginning because there's
just so much more we have to getto and we can't do that
unfortunately, until Joel's out of the picture.
So to take that and also there'slike expectations between fans.
Like I, that's all I would be thinking about.
(31:28):
Like if we were in like episode 6 and it hadn't happened yet,
I'd be like, OK, like, you know,you're kind of pissing me off
now. Like I know what's going to
happen, why hasn't happened. So I think it was smart for them
to do it as soon as they could that it happened and we have to
move on from here. But I think we're still going to
see him. We're going to get flashbacks.
(31:49):
Maybe they had a conversation that we'll see and it's just
going to break our heart all over again.
But yeah, where do we go from here?
There is so spoiler game, spoiler spoilers, more spoilers
in case you don't want to know. Something that's going to
potentially happen on the show, the people in that group or do
come back in some form or fashion, like Ellie is going to
(32:11):
go after them. There's a there's a noticeable
omission and I'm not sure if it's going to happen like when
we find out about it, but Mel ispregnant during this.
So I thought it was an interesting thing to like not
talk about because the baby and everything like her pregnancy
plays a a part in it. So I'm curious if we'll find out
later or if they just didn't want to like throw another
(32:32):
thing. By the way, I'm pregnant.
There are definitely pieces thathave been laid out for us,
right? Like you said, Dina has is a
part of this now. She saw the patch, the WLF
patch, which I'm just calling Wolf.
I don't know if that's. Correct.
Washington Liberation Front there.
You go so, you know, that piece,that puzzle piece is set out for
us, for them to explore. I do think it's, you know,
(32:52):
something to think about of a lot of times when we're in an
apocalyptic world, the main point of the story is to stop
the apocalypse or to cure the disease.
But I feel like that is such a thing that doesn't exist in this
world. And now what we're really
looking for is just revenge. Yeah, 'cause Joel killed them.
(33:13):
Wow, so Noah really is on the side of the fireflies.
Good to know, no? I'm saying there is no cure
being made because Joel killed them.
He killed the entire hospital ofthem.
Oh, yeah, OK, this is, this is fun.
It's fine. Yeah, we're going to go cry some
more. I know, like, I'm sorry, like I
(33:34):
feel like this episode was kind of somber and it was again, like
trying to not give away the ending right up top when we're
talking about it. But like, I think we're all just
collectively kind of sad. And especially with stories this
effective, it's hard to be like,you know, whoo?
Plus, it's the world's baby Pedro Pascal.
I when he was casted, I was like, I'm going to have to see
(33:59):
him die again. He's.
The zaddy of all zaddies. Game of Thrones squished his
head. Yeah, they really, Yeah, a lot
of head stuff with this poor guy, his beautiful head.
I'm worried about Mr. Fantastic.No, it will stretch.
That's true. Take that.
Nobody can swish his head. Nobody can stab his head.
Only he can squish his head. Yeah, how about that?
Very excited for that. Oh OK, let us know what you
(34:21):
thought. Have this episode.
Are you looking forward to more?What are you doing to take care
of yourself after watching this episode?
I think I had said something on online of like.
To all the non gamers, welcome to the grief circle.
We're happy to have you. Yes, let us all hold hands and
cry I. Will say I'm very I'm kind of
proud of like the gamers of not spoiling it.
(34:44):
I, you know, there's of course people that just openly talked
about it, but I think collectively we all just really
wanted these new fans to experience it.
However they were going to do it.
But like, I don't know, I think it's kind of nice because
there's so many people that I was seeing online like Oh my
God, like this is what you guys experience as I guess yes for
(35:07):
over 5 years now, yes, we had tolive with this, but good job
guys. So we can all grieve together
now and move on. And so whatever form that takes,
yeah, I'm excited to see where Ellie goes from here.
But yeah, I guess till next time.
More rage. Yeah.
(35:27):
Goodbye. Bye.
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