April 18, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode of the Brothers Creed podcast, hosts Ethan and Jared Thomas delve into an engaging dissection of graciousness as an essential attribute for great manhood and fatherhood. Challenge the normative views that fail to associate masculinity with graciousness, and rethink your perceptions through compelling literature pieces, inspiring movie quotes, and touching personal experiences shared by the brothers.
Ethan and Jared dive into intriguing discussions, showcasing the extraordinary strength that can be gained from demonstrating graciousness. They share light-hearted, yet insightful recounting of their vacation on a Carnival Cruise, and personal reflections on graciousness, linking it to sophistication, selflessness, and strength without compromising assertiveness.
This episode ventures also into exploring the fascinating cultural nuances of graciousness through different lands, comparing Japan's "omotenashi", a selfless display of hospitality, to the well-known Southern hospitality in the United States. Furthermore, they offer lessons from their time at Goldman Sachs, exemplifying how graciousness can even permeate professional environments, further ingraining its importance.
Immerse yourself in this masterclass episode of the Brothers Creed podcast and explore how embracing grace helps shape better role models. Uncover the perfect balance between strength and grace, challenging stereotypical gender roles, and achieving harmony between masculinity and graciousness. Tune in for a deeply impactful discussion on how to incorporate graciousness into your life and personal growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of a Brothers Creed podcast where we inspire
fathers to build the blueprint for the next generation.
We are the Thomas Brothers, and I'm Ethan.
And I'm Jared. And today we're talking about another one of our attributes that
we talk about to help you be a better father, a better husband, a better man.
(00:20):
And that attribute is graciousness, or the attribute of having grace, or extending grace.
So there's multiple dimensions to this one, and it's an interesting one because
it's not typically one that you think of when you say, like, oh, I'm a real man.
You don't think of graciousness. I'm a real man. Full of grace. Yeah, exactly.
(00:43):
Oh, it's interesting, but there can be powerful strength in graciousness,
and it could be a great show of discipline.
So excited to get into this conversation today. All right, let's do it.
Do not go gentle into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day.
Music.
(01:07):
You should be a monster, an absolute monster, and then you should learn how
to control it. No retreat, no surrender.
You can't conceive of what I'm capable of. There is no tomorrow. There is no tomorrow.
Music.
What we do in life, that goes in eternity.
(01:31):
All right. So there's obviously a variety of definitions of grace, graciousness.
One that I found, it said it is the quality of being kind, polite,
generous, especially to someone of a lower social position.
But I think that's probably extended to anybody.
Yeah. Yeah, the definition I found was, it says those different things,
(01:55):
you know, generous, tactful towards others, kind, courteous.
But in the definition that I had seen, it specifically says,
especially in social interactions, which is interesting.
Whenever I was doing some research on this, the first place I thought of is a carnival cruise.
(02:15):
Have you ever been on a carnival cruise? I have not, but.
Oh, you're going on a cruise later this year? I've seen videos.
Yeah, I've seen fight videos of people jumping over the side because it's so horrible.
The one that got stranded, was that a Carnival Cruise? I don't know.
Although I did hear, I think it might have been Norwegian, but just recently
there was a kid that jumped off.
(02:36):
Yeah, he was drunk and him and his dad were having a fight and he said,
he told his dad, all right, I'll solve this right now and jumped out the window of- Yeah.
It was like they're in the dining hall. He just stood up from the table and
jumped out the window. Yeah.
Crazy. And then they did man overboard, but takes the ship like a mile to turn
around and they went back, but never found him.
(02:56):
Geez crazy yeah anyway so
this is not that depressing but we were on our carnival cruise
it was like when it was like a five-day cruise
it was the opposite of graciousness everybody was
so selfish everybody wanted to
get in line first everybody was sprinting to get the food
first everybody everybody was so entitled to
(03:20):
it was like this is the attitude
of almost everybody everybody on the cruise was this is my vacation i
paid for this you know i deserve to
be here and i deserve to be the front of the line it was
like you're on a carnival cruise maxed out
i maxed out my credit cards to be here it's like you're not on a real caribbean
or in a region it's like so there's whatever there's food like everybody was
(03:44):
just scrambling to get in line whenever we went to get off the the boat everybody
was just sprinting and of course i gotta catch my flight I gotta catch my flight
everybody's freaking out I was like,
okay everybody's gotta catch their flight yeah or like when we went to the to shore,
everybody was just like piling in on like the like the little boats the ferry
boats you know to take you to shore it was,
(04:07):
bizarre and Shannon and I were like what is going on here it's like I can't
even imagine what it would be like in a Titanic scenario where the thing was
going down you know and everybody's it's every man for himself.
Like in actuality, it's just like it was the opposite of graciousness.
Nobody was considerate. Nobody was polite.
Nobody was anything because everybody was on a vacation and the world had to cater to them.
And so I kind of use it as an opposite example.
(04:29):
And maybe this is where my quote comes in on what I think graciousness is.
So I put it, I put, this is what I said,
graciousness is a mark of sophistication that sets aside the selfish,
rude, self-serving, and indulgent behaviors and puts kindness,
politeness, generousness at the forefront of one's actions. I like that.
(04:54):
Yeah. Yeah, all those qualities. And we'll get into it, too.
It's kind of interesting because sometimes it almost feels like kind of an opposite
or a counter to masculine culture, right?
To be masculine is to be bold and assertive.
(05:16):
Yeah. Yes, those things exist, but you can also be polite.
You can also be gracious. You can also be generous. Yeah. And so my quote,
I said, so I kind of compared it to a little bit to strength, right?
And talking about strength is a person.
A lot of people just think, oh, it's physical or whatever. But I said,
(05:37):
strength is not just physical, but can also be measured by how a man carries
himself and treats others.
So that's where that interaction comes. You know, I think true,
the true measure of a person's character is not just, you know,
the strength of their arm or whatever else, but it's how they treat other people.
(06:02):
And I think that that carnival cruise example is like a perfect example.
It's like people are just freaking heathens.
Can't be. They can be. And it's hard in that situation to not act like that as well.
Because if you're in that situation and all these other freaking people are
(06:22):
going crazy and pushing people around just so they can get first in line.
Right. It's almost like, well, what do you do? Do you have grace?
You're like, oh, go ahead.
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, then you're never going to get in line.
You know, if you just have these, it's like a feeding frenzy on Black Friday or something.
There's certain cultures, and maybe I won't specifically name a culture,
(06:45):
but you can probably guess it, that like, that I was watching this thing and
it was this lady that was from France or something like that. She was a tour guide.
And she said there's one culture that is the absolute worst tourists because
you'll be taking a picture and they'll come and stand right in front of your picture.
And they'll, they just, they have no sense of personal space.
(07:09):
They have no sense of politeness.
It's all about them. And it's all about, you know, they can see that they can
get whatever they want, that they can take pictures of the buffalo and Yellowstone from five feet away.
Right, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They get ran down. Oh, this is Disney World. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally.
(07:30):
Well, speaking of which, speaking of cultures, I actually did kind of a deep
dive into a cool cultural thing in Japan.
So Japan is kind of an anomaly.
There's a Japanese word for selfless hospitality.
It's called omotenashi. Omotenashi. Omotenashi.
(07:55):
And it means to wholeheartedly look after guests.
Guests so it's there's kind of two parts
of the word omote it means public
face and nashi means nothing
so kind of further supports the idea that of not expecting any sort of reward
which would make your public face look better so it's kind of like this this
(08:18):
culture that they have to you know You want to show that you are gracious.
So in a way, I kind of compare it to Southern hospitality, right?
There are ways of being hospitable in the South. Oh, hey, welcome to the neighborhood.
Here's some, here's, come over for dinner. You know, let's, you know,
(08:42):
let me help watch your kids or let me invite you over for this or let's do this for you.
So that's hospitality that, or let's just, I'll talk to you in the grocery store.
Or I'll let you head, that people talk about in the South.
It's similar to this and i think it's really cool so what some
of the tenants of this is it can be seen specifically in like restaurants in
(09:02):
the way that they serve your restaurant or it can be seen in the way that they
pack your groceries there was a gal that i worked with once she went to japan
and she came back and she had bought like some treats for us and it was still like in the in the,
class it was a paper bag kind of like a paper grocery bag and i was like she
(09:22):
was like oh i got I've got this little treat for you or whatever.
And I was like, oh, cool. So I open it up, and it was packed in there so meticulously.
It was like someone took the most care to pack it into the grocery bag.
Kind of took pride in the job they had. And I was like, wow.
And she's like, oh, yeah.
She's like, that's how they do things in Japan. It's just like everything is
(09:42):
for the customer. They want to make sure it's done right. Very hospitable.
So seeing this, I'm like, oh, yeah. I've actually experienced that myself a little bit. it.
So there's the tea ceremonies, which are often ways that people will invite
you in, tea ceremony, and it's very servant-oriented.
So it's considered the cornerstone of Japanese culture.
(10:06):
Whether they're welcoming someone into their home, school, or workplace,
or business establishment, Japanese people see it a privilege to be able to
anticipate their guests' every need.
So i think that it's a
it's kind of a cool culture to
have in fact i was watching a thing on social media where
(10:28):
this lady was she was talking about the differences in being
gracious in different cultures in japan if you go and
someone brings when you go to someone's house and it's customary to bring a
gift and you bring a gift and you give it to them and you in that culture you
take the gifts and you put it aside and you open it later and it shows that
you have have discipline to look at the gift later, and it shows respect for the guest.
(10:53):
Whereas in America, it's also very gracious to bring a gift.
If you go to bring a gift, or sometimes people will bring a bottle of wine.
Someone invites you over for dinner, something to drink, or they'll bring something,
a gift maybe for the family or whatever. Yeah.
And usually it's like, oh, open it right now.
I want to see what it's like. And then a person opens it, oh,
(11:14):
thank you so much. This is really cool. So they want to have that experience together.
But if someone came to your house and said, hey, here's a gift,
and you're just like, I'm going to put it aside, that it's like, oh, that's weird.
Remember when Melania Trump, when they were doing the exchange at the White
House, and she gave Michelle Obama a gift, and Michelle Obama just looked at
(11:36):
the gift, She was like, what am I supposed to do with this? And she just like
tosses it to one of her guys.
That's not how you're supposed to do it. Yeah. So instead I was like,
oh, thank you. It's just like, oh, now I have to hold this in my hand. Dang it.
So anyway, I thought that was kind of a cool way to be gracious,
a cool culture of graciousness that can be adopted by lots of people. And it shows strength.
(11:58):
I mean, you think about the Japanese culture.
I would not say that they're a culture of weakness.
We've talked about the the rules of bushido we've talked
about i mean heck we had to literally nuke
these guys to uh get them to stop fighting to
the last man uh or else world war ii would have gone on forever i mean these
guys can be ruthless you know and talked about the the the the endless wind
(12:22):
was it kamikaze kamikaze the yeah the furious wind or what is it like the the
furious wind from the west or something like that yeah so yeah we talked about
the history there and the of the the samurai.
I mean, cool history. They've got a great culture that's also,
I mean, they have a strong culture of graciousness and hospitality.
(12:43):
And you can have that too. One other comment that I was thinking about is there
used to be this Twitter account.
At least they used to follow when I worked back at Goldman Sachs.
And it was like Goldman Sachs, like things overheard in the Goldman Sachs elevator.
It's just like funny jokes and stuff. And one of them was like,
it's like they're kind of like elitist type jokes about
(13:06):
poor people it i think they would want to say like groupon
is like the goodwill of the middle class
that's how i paid for my honeymoon yeah
so they're just kind of funny jokes like that but one of the things that was
on there or at least was like rules to live by by a goldman sachs employee or
veteran or something like that it was a lot of those things in there were like
(13:30):
about being gracious it's like always always pay the tab,
always carry the extra cash in your pocket, like always be gracious.
And it was about like being gracious, not being a cheapskate,
not being like someone who's just like, oh, you know, we have to,
you know, nickel and diming kind of a thing, you know?
And so I think that that in a way, being gracious,
(13:53):
being hospitable, I think in a way there is a a power in that,
a masculine power to be able to say, yeah, when someone comes into my home,
I want them to feel welcome. I want them to feel comfortable.
I want them to feel at home. I want them to feel welcome.
You know, just like they can, you know, hey, you didn't want a drink,
(14:15):
you need to just relax, you know, what do you need?
And so I think that making someone feel comfortable in an environment,
especially in your home, is incredibly important.
I've been into to homes where i didn't feel welcome or what
not incredibly welcomed you know i was on
my mission i mean i you walk into people's home all the
time and you're like i definitely don't belong here all right
(14:37):
i'm not welcome here you know uh the 10 foot cent on workday statue in the corner
is not exactly vibing with me right now or at least somebody in the house gives
you the death glare because you're there yeah but anyway so like graciousness
isn't necessarily necessarily the antithesis of masculinity.
I think it is an integral part of masculinity.
(15:00):
Yeah, completely agree. That's a great example, just from a cultural standpoint
of graciousness, and I could definitely see that.
So what I kind of did was I kind of broke it out into ways that someone can
be gracious and maybe some examples.
And then I got a little bit into to digging into what's kind of the intersection
(15:25):
between that masculinity and then graciousness?
And is it possible to be too gracious, right?
If you're too gracious, then can that etch away at that masculinity or that strength?
So then I have some examples for that. So.
Let's see, ways to be gracious. So a couple of the things that popped out here was,
(15:48):
number one, respectful communication using direct and clear language with someone
that is non-attacking or non-confrontational to a certain extent.
So being considerate of other people's opinions or feelings.
I was on a meeting with an external supplier at work, and it was kind of interesting
(16:13):
because we were talking about work and it was a great call or whatever.
And then all of a sudden, the conversation kind of turned to political and then
it almost got really uncomfortable.
And it was like, there was some bashing going on and there's some different things.
(16:34):
And it was just like, man, I kind of had to hold my tongue a little bit to just
try to keep it professional.
This was an external vendor? yeah you should be like hey man
we're not gonna have any of that here in fact you could just all those wrecks you just
asked me for you could just cancel those right now we're done
oh sir it was it was just it was interesting so
another one is just kind gestures offering something
(16:56):
without an expectation of receiving something
in return and that can be anything from you know
a friendly smile or holding the door or
letting somebody go ahead of you or it can even be you
know with your spouse bringing you know flowers or you
know taking a little extra time to let her
relax or or something like that or
(17:17):
your employee or like people your co-workers too for
sure bringing in some donuts and say hey i know it's been a hard week or one
time i think this more like an appreciation but one time like i was having to
be late on some calls in the evening like 10 11 o'clock because we were meeting
some people in like china and singapore and i was on the calls just kind of
helping with some stuff and.
(17:40):
I just, it was just kind of, it was just like a once a month.
It was like a once a quarter thing.
And after my, my boss gave me, he gave me like a $50 gift card to like Ames
to like the movie theater.
And he was like, Hey, you know, thanks for, thanks for jumping on those calls.
And I was like, I really appreciated that. I was like, Oh, this is really nice.
Yeah. It was just a small gesture of, of kindness and appreciation that I really thought was cool. Yeah.
(18:02):
I've even seen, I've heard some things of, you know, sometimes when it was kind
of like a small business that this guy joined.
And whenever he joined the small business, kind of the owners of the company or whatever,
they had the guy's address or whatever, and they sent his wife a care package
and saying, hey, we know that this is not only your husband that's going to
(18:25):
be spending time and dedicating it towards our company.
But you know we want to appreciate you too for you
know letting you know him not letting him
but you know supporting supporting him in in
his decision to to come work for us which i thought was kind of cool pretty
bold to assume that he's married to a woman yeah well i guess it could have
been partner so uh listening actively showing genuine interest and when when
(18:51):
somebody's talking to you i think that's definitely something to be gracious
right have you ever been talking to to someone who's like staring at their phone
and it's just like are they really listening.
And sometimes i i even try to make it like
if i'm talking to someone and it's something important they need to
write down and i pull out my phone i'll even say
specifically like i'm writing down what we're talking about so that i can remember
(19:12):
like so that they don't just think i'm just like pulling out my phone to text
or something like that yeah active listening is huge yeah like also active and
sometimes we don't do it on the podcast because it just kills it's weird with weird with the audio.
So like you were talking, I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm not like, and I'm not in my head. It just kind of messes with the audio.
So it's better just to be quiet during those, those times when you're speaking.
(19:35):
But active listening is so important to be looking people's eyes, nodding, smiling, uh,
you know, saying, oh, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, or asking follow-up questions or saying, oh, interesting.
People want to talk to you more about that. But if you're, like,
if you're not interested, and then, like, it makes you a more engaging person. Yeah, 100%.
(19:57):
Express appreciation, we talked about that.
Maintain composure. I think that's one big one, staying calm and composed in
challenging situations.
I think this is something definitely with the kids. Sometimes it's hard.
Admitting your own mistakes. I think that's definitely something apologizing
sincerely when you learn a lesson or, you know, there's an experience to be had.
(20:19):
Being generous is also very gracious, you know, kind of like that.
You give a gift. Yeah. Your boss sent you the gift card. I think that's something
that definitely appointment are important.
Offer encouragement, support of other people in their, in their thoughts and
goals, showing empathy and practicing gratitude.
Those are all things. I mean, I think we've talked about a lot of those things
(20:40):
on the podcast before i mean those are like that's i mean those are all ways
to show graciousness but whenever you look at those you don't think weakness.
Yeah a couple a couple additional ones i had was just thoughtfulness we've talked
about being self-aware right welcoming we already kind of talked about that
being thankful we talked about gratitude before on the podcast i think it was
(21:01):
one of our earliest attributes we talked about yeah.
Show grace under fire.
So when there's a, there is true strength shown when like the cards are down
and they were in a tough situation.
So like you're against the clock at work and you're getting,
you know, you're, you're trying to get something done and can you be gracious then?
(21:23):
It's like, it's easy to be gracious, you know, when you have,
it's just a perfect scenario, right?
But when your talents really show and when these attributes really matter is
when the to go and gets tough.
It's easy to be patient when you're just a single person. You don't have anybody to be patient with.
But once you have four kids running around the house and you're like,
(21:43):
okay, I need to be patient with these little human beings, that's when your patience is tested.
You're in the car for 12 hours driving across the country and you're just like,
I want to tear my hair out.
That's when it's tested. And there's one more here, know the difference between
disagreeing and being disagreeable.
Something similar to what you said, but I just thought it was a unique way of
(22:04):
saying it, that you can be gracious in a conversation and disagree with somebody,
but without being disagreeable.
Yeah. Those are some great additional tips.
And Hebrews is a great way to do that. Yeah. And, I mean, like I said,
those different ones that we went through, you would kind of think about those
when you're building your own personal creed, and you wouldn't think –.
(22:27):
You wouldn't really compare that to weakness. But here's a couple of things
that I thought maybe if you take, is it possible to take graciousness too far?
To get me too far, I think. And here's some examples that I thought were actually
pretty cool. So one was over-apologizing.
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for this, sorry for that,
sorry, sorry. You know, over-apologizing.
(22:48):
And one thing that I learned and that I try to do in my professional life as
well, well, actually in life in general, is sometimes it's better to,
instead of apologizing for something,
which kind of brings the whole tone of the conversation down,
you actually give somebody a compliment.
So if I'm running a couple minutes late to a meeting and I'm at work and I hop
(23:14):
onto the meeting a couple minutes late, instead of saying, sorry,
guys, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so late, sorry, I'm so late, sorry, I'm so late.
Instead of saying that, I typically try to say, say, thank you so much for being patient.
You know, I really appreciate it, right? And then that kind of lifts the whole conversation up.
The person's like, oh, you know, yeah, no problem, you know,
instead of like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
So some kind of excessive over apologizing can kind of make someone seem weak to a certain extent.
(23:39):
It can almost feel like a lack of self-confidence.
Yeah, yeah. But is that graciousness though? Is apologizing gracious, being gracious?
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure, you know, being willing to, you know, you know, apologize.
And let's say you, you know, we're walking and you stepped on somebody's foot
and you're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
(23:59):
Right. I didn't mean to do that. I think that's, that's definitely,
you know, being gracious with another person instead of being like,
what were you doing there?
Why are you in my way? Yeah. Right. I think that's definitely kind of the difference
between gracious, you know, being, Giving someone some grace and not.
Another one is excessive self-sacrifice. I think always putting someone else's
(24:21):
needs before your own needs or the needs of your family. Yeah.
I think that can be too much, right?
Another one is avoiding conflict at all costs.
This was an interesting one because I think to a certain extent,
Being gracious is sometimes when you're confronted with a sticky situation, right?
(24:45):
You can be gracious in the situation and de-escalate.
If everything you do is to avoid conflict all the time, I think there is times
where conflict is needed.
I was watching this YouTube video and it was this guy and he was going around
(25:05):
and he was in like, I don't know, he was in California somewhere,
but he was going around, he was stopping men on the street and doing like a
little interview with them.
And he asked them a couple of questions, but one of the questions he asked,
he said, let's say you were, you know, at a bar with your wife.
And that was one of the questions he asked if they were married or whatever.
(25:25):
What would you do if you were at the bar with your wife and a guy came up to
you and just spit in your wife's face? What would you do?
And a lot of the guys were like, well, I mean, he must've had a reason to do it.
So I probably would, would, would say, well, well, well, let's talk about this.
What's going on? What happened?
(25:47):
You know, you turn on your gay voice yeah yeah and
so and then and then there was only i'd say
i'd say 90 of the people that interviewed were like
oh i wouldn't i i just you know i probably he's probably just having a bad day
you know there's no reason to whatever else and it was like like two guys were
like you have to push that guy right in the face right or or or i would get
(26:11):
in his face and i I would like confront the situation.
And, you know, there's other examples of that too. That's like the one where
they say, they ask a bunch of moms like, would you kill for your child?
And these moms are like, oh, I don't know.
I don't think I could do that. I don't think I, no, I couldn't.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
(26:32):
You have no idea. It's a life or death situation.
And maybe if it's a life or death and I knew the person was bad,
then I could kill them for my kid. Yeah. Man, I don't care.
It's like, if someone's starting to my kid, it won't take much. Yeah.
Sometimes over always deferring decisions to other people, right?
(26:55):
From a graciousness perspective, sometimes it is good to let other people speak
up, to let other people make decisions and things like that.
But it can go too far into the sense of being just completely indecisive about
stuff and And being like, oh, well, I'll let you make the decision.
Oh, you go ahead, you go ahead, you go ahead.
(27:16):
A lot of times, from a masculine standpoint, it's like, I've seen this.
A lot of times, my wife, she's just like, just make a decision.
And that's probably even more gracious, because then she doesn't have to make a decision.
Well, I think that in some cases, thinking about being too gracious, sometimes,
(27:37):
I think that, and I've seen this in corporate America sometimes,
And I've, sometimes women will get, and this isn't happening with men,
but sometimes women who are often very gracious in nature,
they will be talking on a call and then they'll just
get some guy will just start talking over them and i've
(27:58):
noticed that some women will will oh they'll just
be like oh this guy's interrupting me and so i'll just stop talking which
is kind of a first of all it's not gracious on his part
to do that but they'll just start talking over but
some women who have kind of been around for
a while they'll just keep talking until the guy
stops talking because they were talking first and it it
(28:19):
was rude of him to interrupt yeah and it's kind
of a weird situation when that happens because and
you can tell who are the more seasoned women because they've
had to deal with some of this stuff where like a
guy will just jump in just like when she's in like the middle of she's making
her point or whatever and she'll just keep talking and keep talking until he
shuts up and it's kind of like in those scenarios you've almost had to be more
(28:44):
bold and assertive with with what you want because people are not being gracious to you.
So I think in that sense, being overly like, oh, no, go ahead,
or it's your turn, that is great in polite society,
but when people are acting like dogs, I mean, if people are...
(29:04):
You almost got to match the... Yeah, if people are piling in and like... Match the level.
Piling on the lifeboat and getting off the Titanic and they're like, oh, I got to go.
When death is on the line. yeah or their
pilot on the the boat to go ashore to the daily
on the carnival cruise to they do their daily excursions it's
like oh man i better get while the getting's good or i'm gonna be
(29:26):
i'm not gonna get on you know and so it's almost like
it creates this like animalistic like post katrina yeah
environment where you have to super dome so
but i think it's a marker of a of a of
a polite society or polite society is a
marker of an advanced society because they've
put aside selfishness they've put aside rudeness and also
(29:49):
it is important to extend grace but if grace is not reciprocated it's hard to
keep that going if you're trying to extend grace and people are treating you
like an animal yeah yeah for sure the last one i had here and i thought this one one was great,
was being overly complimentary.
(30:10):
And so I kind of equate this one to, I feel like it is gracious as a man or
a woman to compliment someone else.
Like, you know, hey, your beard is looking fly this afternoon.
Or like even when somebody does a good job on like a project,
Like, hey, you did a great job.
(30:30):
You know, compliments are very strong tools to build other people's confidence
or to show appreciation, right?
But if you are overly complimentary, it can...
It can sound desperate, right? I'm thinking of like in like a dating, the dating scene.
(30:53):
Yeah. Right? If you're constantly like, oh, you're so beautiful. You're so beautiful.
You're so attractive. I love you so much. Do you love me? You know,
oh, like I love those shoes.
I love you. You know, it's just like, oh, it's almost like it can be too much
to where you're like, dude, just like calm down, man. Or what's your angle?
Yeah. Yeah. Or it could come across as like super needy or yeah,
(31:15):
super like, you know, sales.
I don't know if you've ever gone to buy a car, and the car salesman is like,
oh, man, that's a great pair of shoes you got on there. You've been working out, man.
You're looking so strong today. Oh, you're looking so big. Yeah.
That happened to me one time. Kind of buttered you up. Yeah,
(31:35):
that happened to me one time.
I was buying a car, and it was a truck, and it really kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
And I was buying a truck and I ended up talking the guy down,
you know, it was like $1,500 from the, from the, it was a used truck, right?
$1,500 from the ticket price.
(31:58):
And we were sitting in there and we were kind of doing the, the,
the finances for the truck and everything.
And he was writing it up and, and it was just like, he couldn't compliment me enough.
And it was like, Like, Oh man, you, you, you, you really talked me down.
You really taught me. And then he ran my credit and he's like,
Oh, you've got the best credit I've ever seen.
(32:18):
It's like, and, and this, I was like in college and, and then one of the other
guys that was across the hallway, he was like, he's like, Hey John,
I sold that, that blue truck.
And the, the other guy was like, Oh, well, well, how much did you talk you down?
And he's like, you know, he talked me down 1500 bucks. and they were like and
(32:38):
he was like oh man you're giving this thing away and it was like oh this guy's
so smart they were like paying me these compliments,
but it was almost like under the table like passive aggressive like I could tell they were like.
Like making a mockery of me. Yeah, yeah. With like being overly complimentary.
Yeah. And it really rubbed me the wrong way. Or like, dude, he's getting a lemon.
(33:01):
Yeah. I mean, it was just kind of like. Let's make him think he got something
with the $1,500. And I was young. I mean, I didn't really know a whole bunch about a whole lot.
And so, and it was a decent deal on the truck. And so we kind of,
you know, we got it and we went off and I was happy with it.
But I remember driving home and I was like, it gave me, to use the young kid's
words, it gave me the ick, right? right?
(33:22):
It was just like, it's like, man, that guy was a D bag.
Like I could tell it was almost like he was making a mockery of me with these
compliments that were, he's being so nice.
And so like what, what I guess could be in, in, in, in interpreted as being
gracious, but really he's just being a jerk.
(33:42):
And so, well, I think that's actually, I think it's interesting Because I think
in some scenarios, it's actually good.
I've heard that with coaching or with employees, for every one negative comment
you give of feedback, you need to give three compliments.
(34:04):
Good compliment sandwich. And so that's kind of how I've... So I've coached
soccer quite a few times.
I help coach the kids jujitsu.
And so I've always given... I feel like I want to be a person who compliments people.
I want when people are around me, they feel like I uplift them.
(34:25):
That's something we're trying to teach our kids right now is like uplift people.
It's very easy to tear people down. Oh, man, you're looking like a schlub today.
Or especially guys, they always tear each other down. But I think it's I want
to kind of turn that and raise people up.
And you can still joke with people, but you can raise them up, you know.
And so and sometimes you have to do it carefully when you're just talking with
(34:48):
like just random people or guys because they might feel like you're trying to
butter them up or whatever or it's like hey this is weird but a well-placed
compliment is always good but especially especially in sports,
it's like hey you're doing this good you dribbled that ball really good that
time you did it you ran really good you kept the ball close to your feet but
you couldn't stop it on the end line i want you to stop it before you get to
(35:08):
the end line and so so that's how i like to go i'd love love to give tons of compliments,
especially for little kids. I mean, they need to know when they're doing well.
And I'm like, you're doing great here. You're doing great here.
But you need to pass the ball.
And they're like, okay. And even with employees, I had a team that I worked
with when I was at Vanguard.
(35:29):
And I would be present on a call. And maybe they did something that was really stupid.
Maybe they put their foot in their mouth or they said something they shouldn't have said or they...
Butted into an executive, like it's often that we would present to a bunch of
executives and oftentimes they would talk back and forth.
And then, you know, sometimes we just let the best just let them have that conversation
(35:49):
and then chime in when necessary.
So let's say we were in a meeting, some guy chimes in at kind of the wrong time
and says kind of an off the wall comment that really wasn't,
the question wasn't for him.
After the meeting, we would always do a retrospective after the meeting or an after action review.
And I would say, hey, you did great on on this great on this great
on this and great on this i liked how you did this i liked how
(36:11):
this meeting flowed but these are the things we need
to work on these things these things these things and yeah we're all adults
that people can handle like you know criticism you could say that but i think
it's important to compliment people on the things they do well you know hey
the timing on that presentation was great the way that you opened up the meeting
was great but slide four was an absolute disaster.
(36:34):
Like, see, that way they can say, hey, well, I didn't do everything wrong, you know?
And so, I don't know, maybe that's just my style of management,
but that's just kind of how I, I think that goes along closely with generosity.
I think generosity isn't always
about money. I think sometimes you can be generous in your compliments.
And like I said, you know, I think complimenting can be a very,
very powerful tool for sure.
(36:56):
I think we could use more people complimenting in the world without,
and this goes back to the thing I was talking about. Maybe it's genuine compliments.
Yeah, without the expectation of something in return. Yeah.
I think that'll uplift the world a lot, I think. Yeah, for sure.
Well, it's been great. Yeah. I think it's important to add graciousness into your personal creed.
(37:21):
There's definitely some things that I will do, and looking back in some of the
ways to be more gracious, I think one of the things that I pulled out was active listening.
I think I can be a little bit better at that, especially when it comes to some
of my close relationships with my wife and my kids.
So I think that's one thing that I'm going to do, be a little bit more gracious
(37:44):
in giving people the attention they deserve with active listening. I love that.
Yeah, there's so much here, and teaching your kids this is something that we're
trying to teach my kids right now, is to be gracious in their compliments,
to lift people up, not tear them down, and...
It's done by modeling that and model these behaviors to your children,
(38:09):
and then they will know how to compliment people. They'll know how to be gracious.
They'll know how to welcome a guest into your home or how to be polite,
how to say, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, yes, sir, no, sir, how to open the door.
And I think that's the mark of true sophistication and class when you can be gracious.
(38:31):
No, classless people are not gracious. How you treat others.
And it doesn't have anything to do with money either. You can be poor as dirt
and you can still have class and you can still be gracious.
There were people that I knew in Mexico when I was there that were poor as dirt,
but they would make us scrabble eggs because they knew that we've been walking the streets all day.
(38:54):
And they were just very gracious and loved to have us in their home and loved
to visit with us. And so you don't have to be rich to be gracious,
but it is a mark of class and a level of discipline as well.
Yeah. So incorporate that into your creed. Teach the kiddos.
And as we do all this, we will build the ideal creed. So thanks for joining
(39:18):
us, and let's build our creed together. All right, let's do it.
Music.
Hello and welcome to another episode of a Brothers Creed podcast where we inspire
fathers to build the blueprint for the next generation.
We are the Thomas Brothers, and I'm Ethan.
And I'm Jared. And today we're talking about another one of our attributes that
we talk about to help you be a better father, a better husband, a better man.
(00:20):
And that attribute is graciousness, or the attribute of having grace, or extending grace.
So there's multiple dimensions to this one, and it's an interesting one because
it's not typically one that you think of when you say, like, oh, I'm a real man.
You don't think of graciousness. I'm a real man. Full of grace. Yeah, exactly.
(00:43):
Oh, it's interesting, but there can be powerful strength in graciousness,
and it could be a great show of discipline.
So excited to get into this conversation today. All right, let's do it.
Do not go gentle into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day.
Music.
(01:07):
You should be a monster, an absolute monster, and then you should learn how
to control it. No retreat, no surrender.
You can't conceive of what I'm capable of. There is no tomorrow. There is no tomorrow.
Music.
What we do in life, that goes in eternity.
(01:31):
All right. So there's obviously a variety of definitions of grace, graciousness.
One that I found, it said it is the quality of being kind, polite,
generous, especially to someone of a lower social position.
But I think that's probably extended to anybody.
Yeah. Yeah, the definition I found was, it says those different things,
(01:55):
you know, generous, tactful towards others, kind, courteous.
But in the definition that I had seen, it specifically says,
especially in social interactions, which is interesting.
Whenever I was doing some research on this, the first place I thought of is a carnival cruise.
(02:15):
Have you ever been on a carnival cruise? I have not, but.
Oh, you're going on a cruise later this year? I've seen videos.
Yeah, I've seen fight videos of people jumping over the side because it's so horrible.
The one that got stranded, was that a Carnival Cruise? I don't know.
Although I did hear, I think it might have been Norwegian, but just recently
there was a kid that jumped off.
(02:36):
Yeah, he was drunk and him and his dad were having a fight and he said,
he told his dad, all right, I'll solve this right now and jumped out the window of- Yeah.
It was like they're in the dining hall. He just stood up from the table and
jumped out the window. Yeah.
Crazy. And then they did man overboard, but takes the ship like a mile to turn
around and they went back, but never found him.
(02:56):
Geez crazy yeah anyway so
this is not that depressing but we were on our carnival cruise
it was like when it was like a five-day cruise
it was the opposite of graciousness everybody was
so selfish everybody wanted to
get in line first everybody was sprinting to get the food
first everybody everybody was so entitled to
(03:20):
it was like this is the attitude
of almost everybody everybody on the cruise was this is my vacation i
paid for this you know i deserve to
be here and i deserve to be the front of the line it was
like you're on a carnival cruise maxed out
i maxed out my credit cards to be here it's like you're not on a real caribbean
or in a region it's like so there's whatever there's food like everybody was
(03:44):
just scrambling to get in line whenever we went to get off the the boat everybody
was just sprinting and of course i gotta catch my flight I gotta catch my flight
everybody's freaking out I was like,
okay everybody's gotta catch their flight yeah or like when we went to the to shore,
everybody was just like piling in on like the like the little boats the ferry
boats you know to take you to shore it was,
(04:07):
bizarre and Shannon and I were like what is going on here it's like I can't
even imagine what it would be like in a Titanic scenario where the thing was
going down you know and everybody's it's every man for himself.
Like in actuality, it's just like it was the opposite of graciousness.
Nobody was considerate. Nobody was polite.
Nobody was anything because everybody was on a vacation and the world had to cater to them.
And so I kind of use it as an opposite example.
(04:29):
And maybe this is where my quote comes in on what I think graciousness is.
So I put it, I put, this is what I said,
graciousness is a mark of sophistication that sets aside the selfish,
rude, self-serving, and indulgent behaviors and puts kindness,
politeness, generousness at the forefront of one's actions. I like that.
(04:54):
Yeah. Yeah, all those qualities. And we'll get into it, too.
It's kind of interesting because sometimes it almost feels like kind of an opposite
or a counter to masculine culture, right?
To be masculine is to be bold and assertive.
(05:16):
Yeah. Yes, those things exist, but you can also be polite.
You can also be gracious. You can also be generous. Yeah. And so my quote,
I said, so I kind of compared it to a little bit to strength, right?
And talking about strength is a person.
A lot of people just think, oh, it's physical or whatever. But I said,
(05:37):
strength is not just physical, but can also be measured by how a man carries
himself and treats others.
So that's where that interaction comes. You know, I think true,
the true measure of a person's character is not just, you know,
the strength of their arm or whatever else, but it's how they treat other people.
(06:02):
And I think that that carnival cruise example is like a perfect example.
It's like people are just freaking heathens.
Can't be. They can be. And it's hard in that situation to not act like that as well.
Because if you're in that situation and all these other freaking people are
(06:22):
going crazy and pushing people around just so they can get first in line.
Right. It's almost like, well, what do you do? Do you have grace?
You're like, oh, go ahead.
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, then you're never going to get in line.
You know, if you just have these, it's like a feeding frenzy on Black Friday or something.
There's certain cultures, and maybe I won't specifically name a culture,
(06:45):
but you can probably guess it, that like, that I was watching this thing and
it was this lady that was from France or something like that. She was a tour guide.
And she said there's one culture that is the absolute worst tourists because
you'll be taking a picture and they'll come and stand right in front of your picture.
And they'll, they just, they have no sense of personal space.
(07:09):
They have no sense of politeness.
It's all about them. And it's all about, you know, they can see that they can
get whatever they want, that they can take pictures of the buffalo and Yellowstone from five feet away.
Right, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They get ran down. Oh, this is Disney World. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally.
(07:30):
Well, speaking of which, speaking of cultures, I actually did kind of a deep
dive into a cool cultural thing in Japan.
So Japan is kind of an anomaly.
There's a Japanese word for selfless hospitality.
It's called omotenashi. Omotenashi. Omotenashi.
(07:55):
And it means to wholeheartedly look after guests.
Guests so it's there's kind of two parts
of the word omote it means public
face and nashi means nothing
so kind of further supports the idea that of not expecting any sort of reward
which would make your public face look better so it's kind of like this this
(08:18):
culture that they have to you know You want to show that you are gracious.
So in a way, I kind of compare it to Southern hospitality, right?
There are ways of being hospitable in the South. Oh, hey, welcome to the neighborhood.
Here's some, here's, come over for dinner. You know, let's, you know,
(08:42):
let me help watch your kids or let me invite you over for this or let's do this for you.
So that's hospitality that, or let's just, I'll talk to you in the grocery store.
Or I'll let you head, that people talk about in the South.
It's similar to this and i think it's really cool so what some
of the tenants of this is it can be seen specifically in like restaurants in
(09:02):
the way that they serve your restaurant or it can be seen in the way that they
pack your groceries there was a gal that i worked with once she went to japan
and she came back and she had bought like some treats for us and it was still like in the in the,
class it was a paper bag kind of like a paper grocery bag and i was like she
(09:22):
was like oh i got I've got this little treat for you or whatever.
And I was like, oh, cool. So I open it up, and it was packed in there so meticulously.
It was like someone took the most care to pack it into the grocery bag.
Kind of took pride in the job they had. And I was like, wow.
And she's like, oh, yeah.
She's like, that's how they do things in Japan. It's just like everything is
(09:42):
for the customer. They want to make sure it's done right. Very hospitable.
So seeing this, I'm like, oh, yeah. I've actually experienced that myself a little bit. it.
So there's the tea ceremonies, which are often ways that people will invite
you in, tea ceremony, and it's very servant-oriented.
So it's considered the cornerstone of Japanese culture.
(10:06):
Whether they're welcoming someone into their home, school, or workplace,
or business establishment, Japanese people see it a privilege to be able to
anticipate their guests' every need.
So i think that it's a
it's kind of a cool culture to
have in fact i was watching a thing on social media where
(10:28):
this lady was she was talking about the differences in being
gracious in different cultures in japan if you go and
someone brings when you go to someone's house and it's customary to bring a
gift and you bring a gift and you give it to them and you in that culture you
take the gifts and you put it aside and you open it later and it shows that
you have have discipline to look at the gift later, and it shows respect for the guest.
(10:53):
Whereas in America, it's also very gracious to bring a gift.
If you go to bring a gift, or sometimes people will bring a bottle of wine.
Someone invites you over for dinner, something to drink, or they'll bring something,
a gift maybe for the family or whatever. Yeah.
And usually it's like, oh, open it right now.
I want to see what it's like. And then a person opens it, oh,
(11:14):
thank you so much. This is really cool. So they want to have that experience together.
But if someone came to your house and said, hey, here's a gift,
and you're just like, I'm going to put it aside, that it's like, oh, that's weird.
Remember when Melania Trump, when they were doing the exchange at the White
House, and she gave Michelle Obama a gift, and Michelle Obama just looked at
(11:36):
the gift, She was like, what am I supposed to do with this? And she just like
tosses it to one of her guys.
That's not how you're supposed to do it. Yeah. So instead I was like,
oh, thank you. It's just like, oh, now I have to hold this in my hand. Dang it.
So anyway, I thought that was kind of a cool way to be gracious,
a cool culture of graciousness that can be adopted by lots of people. And it shows strength.
(11:58):
I mean, you think about the Japanese culture.
I would not say that they're a culture of weakness.
We've talked about the the rules of bushido we've talked
about i mean heck we had to literally nuke
these guys to uh get them to stop fighting to
the last man uh or else world war ii would have gone on forever i mean these
guys can be ruthless you know and talked about the the the the endless wind
(12:22):
was it kamikaze kamikaze the yeah the furious wind or what is it like the the
furious wind from the west or something like that yeah so yeah we talked about
the history there and the of the the samurai.
I mean, cool history. They've got a great culture that's also,
I mean, they have a strong culture of graciousness and hospitality.
(12:43):
And you can have that too. One other comment that I was thinking about is there
used to be this Twitter account.
At least they used to follow when I worked back at Goldman Sachs.
And it was like Goldman Sachs, like things overheard in the Goldman Sachs elevator.
It's just like funny jokes and stuff. And one of them was like,
it's like they're kind of like elitist type jokes about
(13:06):
poor people it i think they would want to say like groupon
is like the goodwill of the middle class
that's how i paid for my honeymoon yeah
so they're just kind of funny jokes like that but one of the things that was
on there or at least was like rules to live by by a goldman sachs employee or
veteran or something like that it was a lot of those things in there were like
(13:30):
about being gracious it's like always always pay the tab,
always carry the extra cash in your pocket, like always be gracious.
And it was about like being gracious, not being a cheapskate,
not being like someone who's just like, oh, you know, we have to,
you know, nickel and diming kind of a thing, you know?
And so I think that that in a way, being gracious,
(13:53):
being hospitable, I think in a way there is a a power in that,
a masculine power to be able to say, yeah, when someone comes into my home,
I want them to feel welcome. I want them to feel comfortable.
I want them to feel at home. I want them to feel welcome.
You know, just like they can, you know, hey, you didn't want a drink,
(14:15):
you need to just relax, you know, what do you need?
And so I think that making someone feel comfortable in an environment,
especially in your home, is incredibly important.
I've been into to homes where i didn't feel welcome or what
not incredibly welcomed you know i was on
my mission i mean i you walk into people's home all the
time and you're like i definitely don't belong here all right
(14:37):
i'm not welcome here you know uh the 10 foot cent on workday statue in the corner
is not exactly vibing with me right now or at least somebody in the house gives
you the death glare because you're there yeah but anyway so like graciousness
isn't necessarily necessarily the antithesis of masculinity.
I think it is an integral part of masculinity.
(15:00):
Yeah, completely agree. That's a great example, just from a cultural standpoint
of graciousness, and I could definitely see that.
So what I kind of did was I kind of broke it out into ways that someone can
be gracious and maybe some examples.
And then I got a little bit into to digging into what's kind of the intersection
(15:25):
between that masculinity and then graciousness?
And is it possible to be too gracious, right?
If you're too gracious, then can that etch away at that masculinity or that strength?
So then I have some examples for that. So.
Let's see, ways to be gracious. So a couple of the things that popped out here was,
(15:48):
number one, respectful communication using direct and clear language with someone
that is non-attacking or non-confrontational to a certain extent.
So being considerate of other people's opinions or feelings.
I was on a meeting with an external supplier at work, and it was kind of interesting
(16:13):
because we were talking about work and it was a great call or whatever.
And then all of a sudden, the conversation kind of turned to political and then
it almost got really uncomfortable.
And it was like, there was some bashing going on and there's some different things.
(16:34):
And it was just like, man, I kind of had to hold my tongue a little bit to just
try to keep it professional.
This was an external vendor? yeah you should be like hey man
we're not gonna have any of that here in fact you could just all those wrecks you just
asked me for you could just cancel those right now we're done
oh sir it was it was just it was interesting so
another one is just kind gestures offering something
(16:56):
without an expectation of receiving something
in return and that can be anything from you know
a friendly smile or holding the door or
letting somebody go ahead of you or it can even be you
know with your spouse bringing you know flowers or you
know taking a little extra time to let her
relax or or something like that or
(17:17):
your employee or like people your co-workers too for
sure bringing in some donuts and say hey i know it's been a hard week or one
time i think this more like an appreciation but one time like i was having to
be late on some calls in the evening like 10 11 o'clock because we were meeting
some people in like china and singapore and i was on the calls just kind of
helping with some stuff and.
(17:40):
I just, it was just kind of, it was just like a once a month.
It was like a once a quarter thing.
And after my, my boss gave me, he gave me like a $50 gift card to like Ames
to like the movie theater.
And he was like, Hey, you know, thanks for, thanks for jumping on those calls.
And I was like, I really appreciated that. I was like, Oh, this is really nice.
Yeah. It was just a small gesture of, of kindness and appreciation that I really thought was cool. Yeah.
(18:02):
I've even seen, I've heard some things of, you know, sometimes when it was kind
of like a small business that this guy joined.
And whenever he joined the small business, kind of the owners of the company or whatever,
they had the guy's address or whatever, and they sent his wife a care package
and saying, hey, we know that this is not only your husband that's going to
(18:25):
be spending time and dedicating it towards our company.
But you know we want to appreciate you too for you
know letting you know him not letting him
but you know supporting supporting him in in
his decision to to come work for us which i thought was kind of cool pretty
bold to assume that he's married to a woman yeah well i guess it could have
been partner so uh listening actively showing genuine interest and when when
(18:51):
somebody's talking to you i think that's definitely something to be gracious
right have you ever been talking to to someone who's like staring at their phone
and it's just like are they really listening.
And sometimes i i even try to make it like
if i'm talking to someone and it's something important they need to
write down and i pull out my phone i'll even say
specifically like i'm writing down what we're talking about so that i can remember
(19:12):
like so that they don't just think i'm just like pulling out my phone to text
or something like that yeah active listening is huge yeah like also active and
sometimes we don't do it on the podcast because it just kills it's weird with weird with the audio.
So like you were talking, I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm not like, and I'm not in my head. It just kind of messes with the audio.
So it's better just to be quiet during those, those times when you're speaking.
(19:35):
But active listening is so important to be looking people's eyes, nodding, smiling, uh,
you know, saying, oh, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, or asking follow-up questions or saying, oh, interesting.
People want to talk to you more about that. But if you're, like,
if you're not interested, and then, like, it makes you a more engaging person. Yeah, 100%.
(19:57):
Express appreciation, we talked about that.
Maintain composure. I think that's one big one, staying calm and composed in
challenging situations.
I think this is something definitely with the kids. Sometimes it's hard.
Admitting your own mistakes. I think that's definitely something apologizing
sincerely when you learn a lesson or, you know, there's an experience to be had.
(20:19):
Being generous is also very gracious, you know, kind of like that.
You give a gift. Yeah. Your boss sent you the gift card. I think that's something
that definitely appointment are important.
Offer encouragement, support of other people in their, in their thoughts and
goals, showing empathy and practicing gratitude.
Those are all things. I mean, I think we've talked about a lot of those things
(20:40):
on the podcast before i mean those are like that's i mean those are all ways
to show graciousness but whenever you look at those you don't think weakness.
Yeah a couple a couple additional ones i had was just thoughtfulness we've talked
about being self-aware right welcoming we already kind of talked about that
being thankful we talked about gratitude before on the podcast i think it was
(21:01):
one of our earliest attributes we talked about yeah.
Show grace under fire.
So when there's a, there is true strength shown when like the cards are down
and they were in a tough situation.
So like you're against the clock at work and you're getting,
you know, you're, you're trying to get something done and can you be gracious then?
(21:23):
It's like, it's easy to be gracious, you know, when you have,
it's just a perfect scenario, right?
But when your talents really show and when these attributes really matter is
when the to go and gets tough.
It's easy to be patient when you're just a single person. You don't have anybody to be patient with.
But once you have four kids running around the house and you're like,
(21:43):
okay, I need to be patient with these little human beings, that's when your patience is tested.
You're in the car for 12 hours driving across the country and you're just like,
I want to tear my hair out.
That's when it's tested. And there's one more here, know the difference between
disagreeing and being disagreeable.
Something similar to what you said, but I just thought it was a unique way of
(22:04):
saying it, that you can be gracious in a conversation and disagree with somebody,
but without being disagreeable.
Yeah. Those are some great additional tips.
And Hebrews is a great way to do that. Yeah. And, I mean, like I said,
those different ones that we went through, you would kind of think about those
when you're building your own personal creed, and you wouldn't think –.
(22:27):
You wouldn't really compare that to weakness. But here's a couple of things
that I thought maybe if you take, is it possible to take graciousness too far?
To get me too far, I think. And here's some examples that I thought were actually
pretty cool. So one was over-apologizing.
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for this, sorry for that,
sorry, sorry. You know, over-apologizing.
(22:48):
And one thing that I learned and that I try to do in my professional life as
well, well, actually in life in general, is sometimes it's better to,
instead of apologizing for something,
which kind of brings the whole tone of the conversation down,
you actually give somebody a compliment.
So if I'm running a couple minutes late to a meeting and I'm at work and I hop
(23:14):
onto the meeting a couple minutes late, instead of saying, sorry,
guys, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so late, sorry, I'm so late, sorry, I'm so late.
Instead of saying that, I typically try to say, say, thank you so much for being patient.
You know, I really appreciate it, right? And then that kind of lifts the whole conversation up.
The person's like, oh, you know, yeah, no problem, you know,
instead of like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
So some kind of excessive over apologizing can kind of make someone seem weak to a certain extent.
(23:39):
It can almost feel like a lack of self-confidence.
Yeah, yeah. But is that graciousness though? Is apologizing gracious, being gracious?
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure, you know, being willing to, you know, you know, apologize.
And let's say you, you know, we're walking and you stepped on somebody's foot
and you're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
(23:59):
Right. I didn't mean to do that. I think that's, that's definitely,
you know, being gracious with another person instead of being like,
what were you doing there?
Why are you in my way? Yeah. Right. I think that's definitely kind of the difference
between gracious, you know, being, Giving someone some grace and not.
Another one is excessive self-sacrifice. I think always putting someone else's
(24:21):
needs before your own needs or the needs of your family. Yeah.
I think that can be too much, right?
Another one is avoiding conflict at all costs.
This was an interesting one because I think to a certain extent,
Being gracious is sometimes when you're confronted with a sticky situation, right?
(24:45):
You can be gracious in the situation and de-escalate.
If everything you do is to avoid conflict all the time, I think there is times
where conflict is needed.
I was watching this YouTube video and it was this guy and he was going around
(25:05):
and he was in like, I don't know, he was in California somewhere,
but he was going around, he was stopping men on the street and doing like a
little interview with them.
And he asked them a couple of questions, but one of the questions he asked,
he said, let's say you were, you know, at a bar with your wife.
And that was one of the questions he asked if they were married or whatever.
(25:25):
What would you do if you were at the bar with your wife and a guy came up to
you and just spit in your wife's face? What would you do?
And a lot of the guys were like, well, I mean, he must've had a reason to do it.
So I probably would, would, would say, well, well, well, let's talk about this.
What's going on? What happened?
(25:47):
You know, you turn on your gay voice yeah yeah and
so and then and then there was only i'd say
i'd say 90 of the people that interviewed were like
oh i wouldn't i i just you know i probably he's probably just having a bad day
you know there's no reason to whatever else and it was like like two guys were
like you have to push that guy right in the face right or or or i would get
(26:11):
in his face and i I would like confront the situation.
And, you know, there's other examples of that too. That's like the one where
they say, they ask a bunch of moms like, would you kill for your child?
And these moms are like, oh, I don't know.
I don't think I could do that. I don't think I, no, I couldn't.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
(26:32):
You have no idea. It's a life or death situation.
And maybe if it's a life or death and I knew the person was bad,
then I could kill them for my kid. Yeah. Man, I don't care.
It's like, if someone's starting to my kid, it won't take much. Yeah.
Sometimes over always deferring decisions to other people, right?
(26:55):
From a graciousness perspective, sometimes it is good to let other people speak
up, to let other people make decisions and things like that.
But it can go too far into the sense of being just completely indecisive about
stuff and And being like, oh, well, I'll let you make the decision.
Oh, you go ahead, you go ahead, you go ahead.
(27:16):
A lot of times, from a masculine standpoint, it's like, I've seen this.
A lot of times, my wife, she's just like, just make a decision.
And that's probably even more gracious, because then she doesn't have to make a decision.
Well, I think that in some cases, thinking about being too gracious, sometimes,
(27:37):
I think that, and I've seen this in corporate America sometimes,
And I've, sometimes women will get, and this isn't happening with men,
but sometimes women who are often very gracious in nature,
they will be talking on a call and then they'll just
get some guy will just start talking over them and i've
(27:58):
noticed that some women will will oh they'll just
be like oh this guy's interrupting me and so i'll just stop talking which
is kind of a first of all it's not gracious on his part
to do that but they'll just start talking over but
some women who have kind of been around for
a while they'll just keep talking until the guy
stops talking because they were talking first and it it
(28:19):
was rude of him to interrupt yeah and it's kind
of a weird situation when that happens because and
you can tell who are the more seasoned women because they've
had to deal with some of this stuff where like a
guy will just jump in just like when she's in like the middle of she's making
her point or whatever and she'll just keep talking and keep talking until he
shuts up and it's kind of like in those scenarios you've almost had to be more
(28:44):
bold and assertive with with what you want because people are not being gracious to you.
So I think in that sense, being overly like, oh, no, go ahead,
or it's your turn, that is great in polite society,
but when people are acting like dogs, I mean, if people are...
(29:04):
You almost got to match the... Yeah, if people are piling in and like... Match the level.
Piling on the lifeboat and getting off the Titanic and they're like, oh, I got to go.
When death is on the line. yeah or their
pilot on the the boat to go ashore to the daily
on the carnival cruise to they do their daily excursions it's
like oh man i better get while the getting's good or i'm gonna be
(29:26):
i'm not gonna get on you know and so it's almost like
it creates this like animalistic like post katrina yeah
environment where you have to super dome so
but i think it's a marker of a of a of
a polite society or polite society is a
marker of an advanced society because they've
put aside selfishness they've put aside rudeness and also
(29:49):
it is important to extend grace but if grace is not reciprocated it's hard to
keep that going if you're trying to extend grace and people are treating you
like an animal yeah yeah for sure the last one i had here and i thought this one one was great,
was being overly complimentary.
(30:10):
And so I kind of equate this one to, I feel like it is gracious as a man or
a woman to compliment someone else.
Like, you know, hey, your beard is looking fly this afternoon.
Or like even when somebody does a good job on like a project,
Like, hey, you did a great job.
(30:30):
You know, compliments are very strong tools to build other people's confidence
or to show appreciation, right?
But if you are overly complimentary, it can...
It can sound desperate, right? I'm thinking of like in like a dating, the dating scene.
(30:53):
Yeah. Right? If you're constantly like, oh, you're so beautiful. You're so beautiful.
You're so attractive. I love you so much. Do you love me? You know,
oh, like I love those shoes.
I love you. You know, it's just like, oh, it's almost like it can be too much
to where you're like, dude, just like calm down, man. Or what's your angle?
Yeah. Yeah. Or it could come across as like super needy or yeah,
(31:15):
super like, you know, sales.
I don't know if you've ever gone to buy a car, and the car salesman is like,
oh, man, that's a great pair of shoes you got on there. You've been working out, man.
You're looking so strong today. Oh, you're looking so big. Yeah.
That happened to me one time. Kind of buttered you up. Yeah,
(31:35):
that happened to me one time.
I was buying a car, and it was a truck, and it really kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
And I was buying a truck and I ended up talking the guy down,
you know, it was like $1,500 from the, from the, it was a used truck, right?
$1,500 from the ticket price.
(31:58):
And we were sitting in there and we were kind of doing the, the,
the finances for the truck and everything.
And he was writing it up and, and it was just like, he couldn't compliment me enough.
And it was like, Like, Oh man, you, you, you, you really talked me down.
You really taught me. And then he ran my credit and he's like,
Oh, you've got the best credit I've ever seen.
(32:18):
It's like, and, and this, I was like in college and, and then one of the other
guys that was across the hallway, he was like, he's like, Hey John,
I sold that, that blue truck.
And the, the other guy was like, Oh, well, well, how much did you talk you down?
And he's like, you know, he talked me down 1500 bucks. and they were like and
(32:38):
he was like oh man you're giving this thing away and it was like oh this guy's
so smart they were like paying me these compliments,
but it was almost like under the table like passive aggressive like I could tell they were like.
Like making a mockery of me. Yeah, yeah. With like being overly complimentary.
Yeah. And it really rubbed me the wrong way. Or like, dude, he's getting a lemon.
(33:01):
Yeah. I mean, it was just kind of like. Let's make him think he got something
with the $1,500. And I was young. I mean, I didn't really know a whole bunch about a whole lot.
And so, and it was a decent deal on the truck. And so we kind of,
you know, we got it and we went off and I was happy with it.
But I remember driving home and I was like, it gave me, to use the young kid's
words, it gave me the ick, right? right?
(33:22):
It was just like, it's like, man, that guy was a D bag.
Like I could tell it was almost like he was making a mockery of me with these
compliments that were, he's being so nice.
And so like what, what I guess could be in, in, in, in interpreted as being
gracious, but really he's just being a jerk.
(33:42):
And so, well, I think that's actually, I think it's interesting Because I think
in some scenarios, it's actually good.
I've heard that with coaching or with employees, for every one negative comment
you give of feedback, you need to give three compliments.
(34:04):
Good compliment sandwich. And so that's kind of how I've... So I've coached
soccer quite a few times.
I help coach the kids jujitsu.
And so I've always given... I feel like I want to be a person who compliments people.
I want when people are around me, they feel like I uplift them.
(34:25):
That's something we're trying to teach our kids right now is like uplift people.
It's very easy to tear people down. Oh, man, you're looking like a schlub today.
Or especially guys, they always tear each other down. But I think it's I want
to kind of turn that and raise people up.
And you can still joke with people, but you can raise them up, you know.
And so and sometimes you have to do it carefully when you're just talking with
(34:48):
like just random people or guys because they might feel like you're trying to
butter them up or whatever or it's like hey this is weird but a well-placed
compliment is always good but especially especially in sports,
it's like hey you're doing this good you dribbled that ball really good that
time you did it you ran really good you kept the ball close to your feet but
you couldn't stop it on the end line i want you to stop it before you get to
(35:08):
the end line and so so that's how i like to go i'd love love to give tons of compliments,
especially for little kids. I mean, they need to know when they're doing well.
And I'm like, you're doing great here. You're doing great here.
But you need to pass the ball.
And they're like, okay. And even with employees, I had a team that I worked
with when I was at Vanguard.
(35:29):
And I would be present on a call. And maybe they did something that was really stupid.
Maybe they put their foot in their mouth or they said something they shouldn't have said or they...
Butted into an executive, like it's often that we would present to a bunch of
executives and oftentimes they would talk back and forth.
And then, you know, sometimes we just let the best just let them have that conversation
(35:49):
and then chime in when necessary.
So let's say we were in a meeting, some guy chimes in at kind of the wrong time
and says kind of an off the wall comment that really wasn't,
the question wasn't for him.
After the meeting, we would always do a retrospective after the meeting or an after action review.
And I would say, hey, you did great on on this great on this great
on this and great on this i liked how you did this i liked how
(36:11):
this meeting flowed but these are the things we need
to work on these things these things these things and yeah we're all adults
that people can handle like you know criticism you could say that but i think
it's important to compliment people on the things they do well you know hey
the timing on that presentation was great the way that you opened up the meeting
was great but slide four was an absolute disaster.
(36:34):
Like, see, that way they can say, hey, well, I didn't do everything wrong, you know?
And so, I don't know, maybe that's just my style of management,
but that's just kind of how I, I think that goes along closely with generosity.
I think generosity isn't always
about money. I think sometimes you can be generous in your compliments.
And like I said, you know, I think complimenting can be a very,
very powerful tool for sure.
(36:56):
I think we could use more people complimenting in the world without,
and this goes back to the thing I was talking about. Maybe it's genuine compliments.
Yeah, without the expectation of something in return. Yeah.
I think that'll uplift the world a lot, I think. Yeah, for sure.
Well, it's been great. Yeah. I think it's important to add graciousness into your personal creed.
(37:21):
There's definitely some things that I will do, and looking back in some of the
ways to be more gracious, I think one of the things that I pulled out was active listening.
I think I can be a little bit better at that, especially when it comes to some
of my close relationships with my wife and my kids.
So I think that's one thing that I'm going to do, be a little bit more gracious
(37:44):
in giving people the attention they deserve with active listening. I love that.
Yeah, there's so much here, and teaching your kids this is something that we're
trying to teach my kids right now, is to be gracious in their compliments,
to lift people up, not tear them down, and...
It's done by modeling that and model these behaviors to your children,
(38:09):
and then they will know how to compliment people. They'll know how to be gracious.
They'll know how to welcome a guest into your home or how to be polite,
how to say, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, yes, sir, no, sir, how to open the door.
And I think that's the mark of true sophistication and class when you can be gracious.
(38:31):
No, classless people are not gracious. How you treat others.
And it doesn't have anything to do with money either. You can be poor as dirt
and you can still have class and you can still be gracious.
There were people that I knew in Mexico when I was there that were poor as dirt,
but they would make us scrabble eggs because they knew that we've been walking the streets all day.
(38:54):
And they were just very gracious and loved to have us in their home and loved
to visit with us. And so you don't have to be rich to be gracious,
but it is a mark of class and a level of discipline as well.
Yeah. So incorporate that into your creed. Teach the kiddos.
And as we do all this, we will build the ideal creed. So thanks for joining
(39:18):
us, and let's build our creed together. All right, let's do it.
Music.
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