Life Beyond the Trauma Trigger Warning

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good evening and welcome to another episode of
Narg.
Narg, who's there?
Help, I'm gasping for air.
Dana and I are here today andwe have my stucco and Uno and
Rusty and Faith is in here.
It's crazy crowded.
So we are doing a Q&A sessiontoday because we have been just
overwhelmed with the questionsthat you guys have sent and we

(00:25):
appreciate it so, so much wherewe hit over 10 million.
Just thought you'd like to knowgosh, that's insane.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I say it every time, but it's exciting that our
message is getting out, but justkills me that so many people
are experiencing this stuff.
But I am very excited abouttoday because you and I have
shared our experiences over andover and 100 times over again,
but we love knowing whatquestions the audience has and

(00:57):
what you guys want to know.
So we are going to definitelybe answering some questions
today, and you said a lot ofthem.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Huh, there are we might have to do a second
episode on this, but I want toput out first a trigger notice
because, like all of our shows,there's going to be something in
there that could trigger.
Also, anybody who knows me andworks with me knows that I'm
very big on confidentiality, soI've taken everybody's questions
.
I have not put anybody's namedown with the questions so that

(01:27):
you will not be identified,because I'm very big on keeping
who you are and where you areconfidential.
So just listen for yourquestion and if I didn't get
them this time, I will make surewe read them on the next
episode and if we have even morethan that, we'll do another one
.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I have written them in.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I've written down every question that was
written to us up until Mondaynight.
So yeah, so it's.
It's about 1112 pages.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh my Okay, good, good, good, good.
This.
This means people havequestions, they're listening,
they're paying attention,they're aware of what's going on
in their lives, and awarenessis the first step in trying to
figure out how you can get outof your situation or at least
deciding whether you should.

(02:19):
So this is good stuff.
But, yes, thank you for sayingabout the confidentiality too,
because I think it's importantthat everybody knows that you
and I are all about creating asafe space for people.
We don't want anyone to everfeel worried or threatened that
somebody might find anything out, because we unfortunately are,
you know, in those samesituations, even still sometimes

(02:42):
.
So we don't want to put anyonein a predicament.
So we will be very respectfultoday, going forward in the past
.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
So it's all good, and also, there are some questions
personalized to the two of usand and I'm pretty sure that I
can speak for Dana and she cancorrect me if I'm wrong we are
100% open.
I'll answer anything that youguys have to the best of my
ability, and I'm sure that Danafeels the same way.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Oh, yes, yeah, I mean , I think it's pretty clear.
You have read my books, I.
You know it's not always nicestuff, it's not always stuff
that's easy to admit or thingswe definitely, you know,
necessarily want people to know.
But we're all human and I thinkthat it's okay to own our
experiences and to own ourfeelings.
So, yeah, we're going to share,we're going to be open about it

(03:32):
and, you know, hopefullythat'll inspire everyone else to
be the same with themselves.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Absolutely.
I love it, and we've had a lotof comments just thanking us for
being so open and the voice forthe voice listen.
So it means the world to usthat you guys have reached out
and keep reaching out, becauseeven if we get through all these
and then we do multipleepisodes, if I see questions out
of nowhere, we'll put it in ashow, we will get them, we'll
get your questions answered.
So let's, let's go and we'llfigure out who is going to

(04:01):
answer which questions.
Let's go.
How do you handle everyonetalking and looking down at you?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Easy.
I don't you know why?
Because I don't have to proveanything to anybody.
I, you know, it's funny.
I just answered this questionto somebody yesterday.
I used to care, I used to feellike I had to defend myself.
And here's proof.
You have been there too.
Here is solid, factual, writtenevidence, legal proof.

(04:32):
People will believe what theywant to believe about you.
So give it up, because let metell you, if they are willing
and open to believing crap aboutyou and not willing to give you
the respect of letting youexplain yourself not that you
should have to but if they don'teven know you well enough to

(04:53):
know it's a lie, forgive me, butto hell with them.
You got to have enoughself-respect to just set that
boundary and say this personobviously wants to believe this
about me and that's okay.
And honestly, I'm not a mean,vengeful person, but every once
in a while I just kind of rollwith it.
There was a rumor, which isdisgusting actually, that I got

(05:17):
pregnant by my husband before wegot married so that I could
trap him in a marriage.
Well, we're going on three anda half what?
Three and a half years ofmarriage.
I am, you know, barely over ahundred pounds.
I look fabulous for beingpregnant and I will say that to
people.
I don't care.
If people want to believe it,let them believe it.
If they want to think that Itrapped him, well, lucky me, I

(05:38):
live in a beautiful house, Ihave a very cute husband who
treats me very well.
So if I trapped him then ohwell, good for me, I guess, but
I don't care.
That's how I deal with it.
Can I go to the baby shower?
I would love to have a babyshower, I know right, because I
want all the gifts Becausethere's no baby.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Right, all right.
When did you realize that thisreally wasn't your fault?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Recently.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, we're still working on it.
I'm still working on it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, and I want to be clear on this because I'm not
being funny.
You know I was raised by twonarcissists.
I spent 25 years in arelationship and then marriage
with one.
I didn't even know what anarcissist was until just about
the end of my marriage.
I mean, what kid knows what Imean?

(06:35):
Really, when I was a kid I knewit was abuse, I knew it was
wrong, but I didn't know.
It was two narcissists thatwere abusing me and even in my
marriage it was so insidious andI didn't.
They're so tricky the way theygo about it.
Unless it's outright physicalor sexual, something that is
definitively abuse.
Some of the abuses are a littlesneakier, like you don't

(06:58):
recognize them and they go aboutit in a way that you don't.
You're not seeing it as as whatit really is, as a manipulative
.
You know tactic to control youand so it's okay.
I want everybody to know it'sokay, even if you don't
recognize it, even if you werein it and you never saw it, and
it's okay.

(07:18):
Your gut will tell you itdoesn't feel right.
That unsettling feeling youhave is telling you something
isn't right.
That's all you need to know.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Absolutely.
Oh okay, this question is forboth of us.
I've just been.
When they ask questions, ifthey say this is for Dana, then
I'll be specific about it.
If it's for both, I'll say that, and if there isn't a person
identified they want an answerfrom, we'll just go for it.
This is for you.
What was the earliest memory offeeling different from your

(07:50):
family?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I mean, it was, it was very early.
It was, I want to say, rightabout three years old, four
years old, because I would hearthem referring to me as an
accident and a mistake.
And I was watching SesameStreet and the great space
coaster and I knew in cartoonsthere's a mom and there's a dad

(08:15):
and there's the babies.
And I had great grandma and sherocked me and soothed me.
I lived with her, she fed me,she.
I loved her very much and sheloved me like a mother should.
But I knew I didn't have amother and I had even asked as
you read it, probably in choking, on shame, you know, when I
said to her cause I was inpreschool and a little girl said

(08:37):
how come you weren't at thedaddy daughter dance?
And I was just, I didn't thinkanything of it.
I'm like well, I don't have adad.
So how could I go to a daddydaughter dance?
And she's like but everybodyhas a dad.
And I'm like but I don't.
And then I asked my mother andshe's like you don't have a
father, you don't need to worryabout it, because it was a tough
subject.
So I think that it was veryearly on, but unfortunately it,

(08:58):
just it's.
It was like a theme in my life.
I was always the one that wasdifferent.
I didn't ever belong, I didn'tever fit, but it's okay.
I don't have to fit and it'staken me 48 years.
But I'm perfectly fine beingthe unique little flower in the
garden that I am, because I amfinding other unique flowers

(09:21):
like you that we can just bloomand shine and thrive together.
But it is hard growing up thatway, especially when you have
both parents against you.
School sucked, home suckedeverywhere.
I turned it sucked, but it'sokay.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, to the individual who wrote this it was
a young lady I will tell youthat if you really want an
insight and she's going to belike, why do you keep doing this
?
Her book is so insightful, it'shonestly.
It makes you feel like you'reright there when it's going on.
Like you, literally, when shestarted talking about you know
her mom and the daddy daughterdance, I immediately went back

(09:55):
to that part of the book and,like you, literally go through
it and you can feel like you'rethere and it's heart wrenching.
So you really feel like you arein the moment.
You feel like you areexperiencing it, as it happens.
So her books are amazing I meanamazing and everybody should go
out and read them because youreally get a really good inside
experience when you're readingher work, which is amazing, and

(10:18):
I keep telling her she has tokeep writing and keep writing
and writing.
Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yes, ma'am, I'm working on it.
Book three is coming.
I have to catch up with you.
But yes, thank you for thatquestion, because I think it is
something that I don't thinkit's.
It necessarily happens whenyou're going through puberty as
a teenager or whatever.
So for some people it does, butfor me it was.
It was right right off the bat,my earliest memories.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
So I'm reading all of these questions how do you feel
when you think about yourfamily now?

Speaker 2 (10:49):
I feel indifferent is how I'm going to say it, but it
has taken me a lot of work, alot of help that I wasn't always
too eager to accept.
But when I say work, I thinkI've said it before.
But when you go to, you know,whatever kind of therapy you

(11:12):
choose because talk therapyisn't necessarily always the
best thing for everybody butwhatever therapy you choose,
make sure it's effective,because if it is, it is work, it
is excruciating, it is painful.
It's not just going and talkingto somebody every Thursday at
three o'clock and then all of asudden you feel better.
It is constant 24, seven.

(11:34):
Even when you're working,sleeping, eating.
Stuff is going on in yoursubconscious, in the back of
your mind.
You're dreaming stuff up,you're recalling repressed
memories.
There is just nastiness andawfulness.
But at the end, once you getthrough that storm and that muck
of it, there is like a light,there's the rainbow and the

(11:55):
sunshine after that storm, whereyou realize wait a second, that
all was awful and I didn'tdeserve it.
But once you kind of figure outand realize that it was not
necessarily about you personally, even if you personally were

(12:15):
the only child in the home thatwas abused and the others were
not.
Even if you were the one thatwas told you will not be loved,
you are not enough.
You, you, you, you, you.
It is not personal.
And once you figure that out,that your experience is not
unique because you have hadexperiences that are similar to
mine, as obviously all theseother people that are listening

(12:37):
can relate it is not unique tous.
There's nothing uniquelydeficient about any individual
one of us.
It is the people that abused usthat have the problem and they
just decided that we were goingto be the vessels for, you know,
to unleash their own resentmentand their bitterness and anger

(12:59):
and awfulness.
But once you figure that out,you can kind of realize that you
had your human experience.
They're having their own humanexperience.
They're obviously not in thesame area of self-awareness that
you're in and some people willnever be and some people will
never be open to it.
But that is their lifeexperience.

(13:21):
This is mine.
So I don't wish them ill, wishthings hadn't gone down the way
that they had.
But they're living their life,I'm living mine and that's all
there is to it.
And once you can get to thatplace, you're just indifferent.
I always say, when you can getto a place where it's like
walking past somebody at Walmartthat you don't know they are

(13:43):
not affecting you.
Then you're good.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yes, and what a great way to go into this question
for both of us.
How do you celebrate yourindividuality in a family that
doesn't accept it?

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Well, why don't you answer that, because I'm doing a
lot of talking?
Well, this is for both of us.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
This is for both of us.
I celebrate my individuality asa person who advocates for
people in the beginning of theirjourney.
I don't like the word victim.
I like the word survivor,because you have conquered it
and you've come through it.
You are so much stronger thanyou have any idea it.

(14:22):
You are so much stronger thanyou have any idea.
Um, most of my entire life Iremember that I would hear
things like oh well, you know, Iam so attractive, I turn heads,
you turn stomachs and you knowyou're hideous and ugly.
Nobody's ever gonna want you.
Or like freddy krueger and theelephant man had a baby and here
you are and yeah, and so like,you're so unattractive and all
of these scars.
And hey, if you're bored, letme give you a Sharpie marker and

(14:43):
you can play.
Connect the dots and you'll bebusy for hours and just one
thing after another, afteranother, and then forever.
I would just sit there andthink why, why am I not?
I didn't ask to come in thisworld.
I didn't ask to be born.
I definitely didn't ask to beborn to them.
You know, I swear mygrandmother had another baby and
just never wanted to tell me itwas me and that you go about

(15:07):
and then you realize you knowwhat.
I've given them enough time.
I've given them enough of meand it's enough, like I'm done.
For the longest time I wouldapologize for their actions,
even if it had nothing to dowith me.
But I was always at fault.
I was always the one thereblamed, even if I wasn't even
around when whatever happenedtranspired.
And I would always follow thesword and say I'm sorry, I'm

(15:28):
sorry, I'm sorry for something.
I wasn't even around.
For Some of the time I wasn'teven in the same state, but I'd
be blamed for something thathappened a state away and I
wasn't even there.
So now faith has taught me somuch.
And you know it's so ironicbecause people are like oh,
she's a child and you know we'resupposed to teach her and I've
dedicated my life to her.
But there's nobody who's evermet her that she can't teach a

(15:51):
lesson to, because she teacheseverybody, everything, and I
mean she does it without evenrealizing she's doing it.
And what I've said to her fromday one is I've given you
everything that my biologicalparents never gave me, and
that's how I knew I wanted to beand I wanted to emulate the
care and love that I had from mygrandparents and she never

(16:12):
deserved anything that I endured.
And so you know, she's alwayssaid to me you're nothing like
them, and that is the bestcompliment in the world when it
comes from her letting me knowthat.
So I celebrate the fact thatthe footsteps that they gave, no
matter how horrible and hardthat they were, taught me to
walk in the opposite direction.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I love that and I want to add on to that that I
think it's important for us tohow should I put this?
I think, societally, like, wehave this expectation.
Like I said when I was a kid,I'm watching cartoons, I'm
watching shows.
You know, we all watch theCosby show and all you know a

(16:55):
mom and a dad are supposed to bein the house and they're
supposed to love their kids andthey're supposed to, supposed to
supposed to.
Well, guess what?
Nobody has to do anything.
I don't know who decided that inthis world that moms and dads
are sometimes moms and dadsdon't love their kids or they
just don't love one of them.
It is what it is and I think,part of celebrating our

(17:15):
individuality and accepting thefact that we maybe aren't like
our family, maybe we're not, youknow, accepted or necessarily
fit right in.
It's okay, because there areother people who accept me, just
fine, and I wouldn't wantanyone to love me or accept me
out of obligation.
Anyway, I want them to do itbecause it's in their heart to,

(17:37):
because we connect, because weshare, because we're passionate
about the same things, becausewe like qualities about each
other.
So, like for me, I also like toseparate the fact that, yes, my
mother gave birth to me and,yes, I was put in a house with
her and her husband and it wasawful and it was what it was.
But I am here.
I don't even go so far as tosay I'm a victim or a survivor.

(18:00):
I'm just me, I'm just Dana,just like you're Victoria, and
faith is faith.
And guess what?
God decided I should be hereand I'm here and God saved me in
a million circumstances, justlike he saved you and he saved
faith.
And we are here and we havegifts, we have talents, we have

(18:21):
things that we can share withother people and share with the
world.
And if my family doesn't likethat, then oh well.
I mean I, I'm sad that mymother doesn't see.
You know how much I'veaccomplished and recognize you
know what an amazing daughtershe has.
But there are other people whoare glad to have me in their
life.
And, yes, exactly, just soeveryone knows, I think, that

(18:46):
Victoria and I were separated atbirth.
Yes, you got the cool red hair.
I did not.
But no, but that's a beautifulthing and that's what I'm
speaking about.
But no, but that's a beautifulthing and that's what I'm

(19:22):
speaking about.
There is love.
It sounds like an awful thingto say, but you know what, just
because you're born to somebodydoes not mean you're going to
get along inherently, and it'swonderful when, like you can
have, you have a beautifulrelationship with faith, and I
love that.
You guys have thatmother-daughter relationship
that everybody should have, butnot everybody has that.
But everybody has a friend.
Everybody has a grandma orsomebody that cares about them

(19:44):
and loves them just for who theyare, and that's what we should
focus on.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Don't bother yourself , wasting energy or even thought
on people that just refuse tohave you in their lives, right,
and what I love is, before westarted recording, faith was in
here and the minute that Danajoined in, faith was like it was
the cutest thing ever.
She loves her.
She's like, have you talked toher today?
Because she's at a book signingand I'm like I know where she

(20:09):
is, smarty pants, thanks forletting me know.
And she's like, oh, I couldtell you said hi, if you want,
because I'm chatting with her.
Like what you just said reallyresonated.
You know, I don't know if youthought about this, but this
just really just came to me the,the cosby show.
Okay, we grew up watching thecosby show and okay, let's,
let's put that out there as agreat metaphor, because the

(20:32):
cosby show had a loving mom anddad who had these kids and they
were very interactive in theirlife.
But then let's say that's thegeneral public behind closed
doors.
Look at Bill Cosby, right, lookat what Bill Cosby was doing
behind quote unquote closeddoors to all of these people,

(20:52):
these kids, these women, justlike you know.
I mean that is what an examplethat that really is that you go
and watch it.
Now I can't even look at BillCosby, like you know.
I mean that is what an examplethat that really is that you go
and watch it now.
I can't even look at bill cosby.
Like you know, I loved the showgrowing up and now I'm like wow
, because he was the jello guy.
You know, he was the guy thateverybody loved on the outside,

(21:12):
but cameras off, such as doorshut this is who he was.
When the doors were shut, thecameras were off and you were at
home.
I mean, what better analogy ofnarcissistic behavior is there
than that, right there?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's a lot of people and
we're all let's be real we'reall guilty of it.
I mean I don't go like let nephbombs drop in front of my.
Well, okay, one of my priests Ido, cause he's cool, but like
some of my priests that do likeI wouldn't talk like that to the
elderly ladies at church.
You know what I mean.
Like we all have a certain maskthat we wear in certain areas

(21:50):
of our life.
But yeah, I mean even takingthe nastiness out of it.
Look at, like Robin Williams,funny guy, always the part you
know life of the party, veryenergetic and high vibing and
funny, oh my gosh.

(22:10):
But he was so sad and depressedand like I can relate to that.
You put me on, put a camera onme.
I mean my husband says it allthe time I light up, I have my
energy, I just kind of go withit.
You know, I almost feel like Ihave imposter syndrome sometimes
, because then there's dayswhere I'm just Dana here at home
, living normal life, andsomething triggers me and I get
depressed and then I'm in bedfor a day crying, and then I

(22:32):
have a migraine and then I'mgetting so sick, ruminating
about whatever it is that I feellike I'm going to throw up.
And you know we all have thisbehind the scenes thing, but
yeah, I mean the narcissist.
The problem is the abusive oneswhen they have this behind the
scenes character versus thepublic character.
It's literally Chucky, that'smy go-to reference, you know.

(22:55):
Oh, look at me, the good guy,you know, the good guy, doll,
I'm going to be your best friend, andy, and yeah, then
everybody's getting murdered andbutcher, knifed and scary stuff
, and literally this isliterally what sometimes goes on
behind closed doors, butthey're all put together in
public and it's a scary thing todeal with and people don't

(23:17):
believe us and that's what's sofrustrating.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
That is so true.
What qualities do you valuemost in a friendship?

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Truth, honesty, safety.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Absolutely.
I couldn't add anything to that.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Loyalty, honesty, yeah I think it comes with it
Exactly, and I think it comesdown to like the way I tell
people is like I, the people inmy life that I let in close to
me, I'm going to say stupidstuff, I'm going to make
mistakes, I'm going to maybe dosomething that even I think is

(23:54):
cringy, but my people are stillgoing to love me and they might
say yes, dana, that was cringy,or don't do that, you shouldn't
do that, don't say that, thatyou're better than that.
But that's OK, it's not goingto trigger me, it's not judging
or demeaning me, but you got myback, no matter what I say or do
, and that's safety.
I know you're not going toabandon or reject me.

(24:15):
Is it hard to keep people inyour life?
And if you do, how do you letthem in?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I'll let you take that one.
That's a lot, thanks, thanks alot.
I literally have a hard timebecause people that have been in
my life for 10, 15, 20 yearsall of a sudden take the mask
off.
Then I hadn't expected it.
I mean, even people who weretaking care of Faith and her
medical team took the mask offout of nowhere and wasn't

(24:48):
expected, and that shocked me.
The one thing you always havewith me is consistency, and I
always tell people.
You know, and Faith says thesame thing.
If I have to say anything aboutmy mom, she will tell you the
truth and piss you know, andfaith does the same thing.
If I have to say anything aboutmy mom, she will tell you the
truth and piss you off, then lieto make you happy, which is
true, because then you don'thave to remember the truth, it
just comes out.
You don't have to say, well,what did I say to cover that or
what did I say to you know?

(25:09):
No, and the thing is is that itis so hard for me to let people
in, and then you're alwaysworried about like are they
gonna just?
Is it?
Is it going to be today, is itgoing to be tomorrow?
Is it going to be next weekwhen they turn around and show
their true colors To me?

(25:31):
I only have a very small groupof good female friends that I
know and love and feelcomfortable with, and of course,
dana is is absolutely in thereI I have issues with.
Like one of the things that Ido is I had a good friend who
was going through some majorstuff and every single day I
would ask her is she okay?
Is she okay or is she okay?
And I would listen to her forhours, just go on and on about
everything that was going on,and not once did she say how are

(25:53):
you or how are things with youor how are things going with you
, and it didn't even matter whatwas going on with me.
It didn't matter.
But no matter what I was goingthrough, I would still message
and say are you okay?
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (26:08):
you're very good at that.
Yeah, you know you're hearingand that's part of your nature,
and a lot of people get socaught up in their problems that
they they don't consider theother person.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Right, and that's hard.
You got to be able to trustthat person.
And then you build the wall.
I tell everybody, do I have awall, absolutely, but it's got a
little tiny like dwarf door andyou come in and then the wall
gets built and the wall doesn'tkeep people out, it keeps them
in.
And you know, that's such a bigdifference.
I keep the people that I reallycare and love in and the thing

(26:41):
is, I will go to bat and doanything I can for anybody in my
inner circle, without question.
And the thing is is that youhave to allow yourself that
friendship and happiness andthat comfortability.
And the one thing that reallysucks is that you have to go
through this dramatic traumathat we've both been through

(27:02):
before you really recognize atrue, genuine soul, because they
get it, they understand it andthey have your back without
judgment.
They listen, they understand,and that is something that you
will never find unless you'veunfortunately walked this this.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
That is 100% true.
I want to share, though.
Remember I told you I hadsomething I was invited to, that
I normally would just group ofpeople.
So I'll give everybody a littlebackstory because I feel like
it's very relevant and I want toshare a little experience I had

(27:38):
the other night my husband'sfamily I won't give away too
much because it's a whole thing.
It's actually a main subject ofmy third book that I'm almost
done with Victoria.
I swear to God, I'm almost donewith it.
But let me just say that I likedthem very much, knew them 20

(28:00):
years.
Everything was great.
My husband and I got together.
It was just like perfect.
Happily ever after Should havebeen until the one gal and his
sister-in-law, who I was friendswith for 16 years, decided that
she didn't like that.
Everybody was happy that I wasgoing to be part of the family.
There wasn't room enough,apparently, for both of us, so

(28:20):
she literally rallied.
These people, told them themost atrocious and vicious lies,
and I mean it kept going.
It's still going years, it'sfor years now, to the point
where they actually had anintervention with my husband to
try to stop him from marrying me.
Anyway.
Stop him from marrying meAnyway, obviously not very good

(28:45):
vibes between me and the family.
It's hard not to take offenseto that one, especially after
all the things I've been through.
You want to talk about a wall?
I've got a big wall up there.
You have the great wall of DanaA few times, so I am usually
not invited to their familyevents.
I am actually there, you know.
They even speak about me.
We live in a small town,unfortunately, and I'm not a

(29:08):
real wife because I'm not hisfirst wife and I'm a replacement
wife and I'm not really part ofthe family.
I hear all this crap.
Anyway, there was something theother night.
In memory of my husband'sfather who passed away last was
something that was very personalfor my husband.
I should, as his wife, be thereand support him, regardless of

(29:45):
how these people felt about me.
So it was one of these thingswhere I had to put my pride
aside and say, ok, I got to putmy big girl panties on and go to
this thing, but I had to setparameters and this is what I
wanted to share with people,because this isn't a story about
look at me and what I did, butit's about showing people.

(30:05):
I set a boundary first, with myhusband saying you are my person
.
Like you are going to be myonly ally in this room of 40
people that have literally goneto great lengths to remove me.
I need you to.
You got to back me up ifanybody says anything.
Number two I want to driveseparately because I need to

(30:28):
know that if I feel that anxiousor uncomfortable, I want a way
out, I want an escape.
It's not me trying to give in,to fight or flight, but I should
only have to tolerate so much.
So I said give me that respect.
Is that okay?
And I wanted him to be part ofthis decision.
I didn't want to just be likethis is how it's going to go.
He agreed and he understood andeven told me are you sure you

(30:51):
want to go?
And I said this is somethingthat's important to you.
I need to show up for you andthis is for your dad.
God rest his soul.
So I went.
But the thing is, when I'vegone to his family in the past
very few times, I sit in thecorner, I let them be over there
and I'm over here, and thatthere is a great big divide.

(31:14):
But you know what I said screwthat.
This time.
I was feeling a little bold,but you know what?
I am not going to shrink myselfdown for other people.
I am going to take up as muchspace as God allows me to.
But you know what Aninteresting thing happened.

(31:35):
I walked in there being just whoI would be with you, with faith
, with anyone else that I feltsafe with, even though there was
this part of me that was verynervous.
And I said hi to people, evenpeople that were pointedly not
looking at me and acting like Iwasn't there.
Hey, what's new in your life?

(31:56):
To me it was almost like anexperiment, because I had
nothing to lose.
Right Interesting thinghappened.
People were talking to me.
People were then coming up tome and, oh, look at, my
granddaughter started preschooltoday.
Look at her picture.
And they were joking with me,and they were even when people
were saying goodbye, bye, bye,so and so Bye, so it's bye Dana.

(32:20):
It's like, oh, we'reacknowledging me now.
But it's funny because I wasn'tacting weird, I wasn't acting
awkward, I wasn't isolatingmyself and walking around with
this barrier around me, likedon't look at me and don't talk
to me because you're not goingto anyway.
I didn't go in there assumingthat there was this divide and
assuming everybody didn't likeme and assuming all this stuff

(32:42):
that I already knew for a fact.
But it's funny that we actuallyhad a good time and I was so
proud of myself because I saidthe one time that I just was
like, screw it, I'm going to beme, I'm not going to let them
make me fit into this little boxof I don't belong here and I'm

(33:04):
not part of the family.
I'm going to go in there, likeI own the damn place.
And we had a really great nightand there were still two people
, namely that sister-in-law,that oh, she, I mean just would
not look at me and at one pointI was even having a conversation
with somebody and she just cameand sat down on the other side

(33:25):
of the person and startedtalking to them, just to stop
them from talking to me.
And I just I acted like itdidn't bother me at all and to
hell with her.
So that's kind of my take onthat question.
I'm a big isolator.
I like to stick with people whoare my people and I wouldn't
normally.
I mean, it's not like I'm allexcited, like oh, look at me,

(33:49):
I'm part of my husband's family,but I don't want to have.
I want to be able to sharespace with them when I have to,
because there's going to befunerals and there's going to be
things, you know, things that Iwill want to accompany my
husband to as his wife.
But I don't think that any oneof us should ever feel, or make
anyone else let us feel, that wedon't belong somewhere, because

(34:12):
we do.
We can belong wherever wedecide we want to.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Absolutely, absolutely Okay.
Let's see how do youdifferentiate between
self-preservation andselfishness in your
relationships.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Well, there's a big difference.
Self-preservation is when youdo those protective mechanisms.
Selfishness, you know whatselfishness is?
It's when you are I meanhonestly, it's when you're
acting like a toddler, when it'sjust about me and that's just
how it's going to be, and you'renot considering the other
person.
And I don't think any of us isreally that selfish.

(34:54):
I think it's hard to be aselfish person when you come out
of abusive situations, becauseusually you come out more empath
situations, because usually youcome out more empathetic, if
anything else.
But what's your take on that?
Because that's a tough one.
That was a great question, bythe way.
Whoever asked that.
That's a phenomenal question.
But I would just say I mean youknow.
You know if you're beingselfish and versus a self

(35:16):
preservation, it's just a matterof awareness.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I would say that.
I would say there's almost likea gray area, you know, because
some people would misconstrueself-preservation for
selfishness.
It just depends on the person.
I would have to answer.
It would depend on the personreading the situation.
Where you and I might say we'redoing this for
self-preservation, somebody elsemight say they're doing that
because they're selfish.
But at the end of the day, it'sreally about how you need to do

(35:42):
to thrive not survive, but tothrive what you need to do to
protect yourself, because nobodyelse is going to.
We protect ourselves first.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
And I mean intention, yeah, it's the intention.
I would say then is that whatyou're getting at?
That makes sense?
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Now, how do you know if you yourself could possibly
one day turn into a narcissist?
This is a question for you.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
well, I won't.
Um, you're either a narcissistor you're not.
I don't think you turn into one.
You turn into one.
It develops in childhood.
Um, I know there's theories outthere, but I absolutely
subscribe to the nature versusnurture theory that when you're,
as a matter of fact, we couldhave ended up as narcissists.

(36:27):
Usually it's an abused orneglected child.
Now I want to be very clear,though, because my ex-husband is
a perfect example of this.
He perceived that he wasneglected.
Was he in fact?
It's arguable, but his was more.
He felt emotionally neglected.

(36:47):
He felt less than his sister,who was the golden child.
So in his mind but I mean asfar as physically and whatever
he was not neglected.
But there is a perceived traumaor abuse when you are a child
and you either become anarcissist, where you learn
through trial and error thatbeing bad and doing these awful

(37:09):
things to fulfill youregotistical need to be important
and to feel like you matterdefinitely make you feel that
way, and you can manipulatepeople to that or you become
like us.
You feel like you're a botherand a burden, and you again,
here's that shrinking down.
You shrink down because youinternalize the idea that you

(37:32):
don't matter and you become moreempathic.
So it's, it happens.
In childhood I did not become anarcissist.
Now does that mean I don't havenarcissistic qualities?
No, absolutely not, because Ithink this actually goes really
well with that last question.
There are things that I havedone Like sometimes it's I'm

(37:53):
trying to control a situation.
Maybe I might be a little bossywith my husband about something
, because something is making mefeel uneasy in that
circumstance.
So I got to get bossy and startcontrolling it because I need
to feel safe.
That is not me beingnarcissistic and trying to
manipulate him.
That is me trying to feel safe,exactly so you can have

(38:18):
qualities and not be anarcissist.
Here's my easy test for anybodythat's concerned about that.
If you are asking yourself ifyou're even worried that you're
a narcissist, you're not anarcissist, because a narcissist
would immediately knock it downand say I'm not a narcissist.
You're a narcissist.
Screw you, there's nothingwrong with me, you're crazy.
So there you go.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
This is a tough one, like I.
I was just like I actuallyreached out to this person who
wrote me this question and Ioffered for you and I to speak
with them if they ever wanted toum, not even on a recording
just to talk if they ever feltlike they really wanted to,
because this question really gotme and it hurt to read this and
they haven't read it.

(38:59):
So I've made a little note ofwho they are and I'm going to
reach out again because thisquestion was that powerful to me
and I said you are more thanwelcome to do a Zoom with Dana
and I.
We will talk with you, we willhelp you any way that we can.
You're not alone.
That's how deep this questionwas and it really hurt.
I have not seen a response, um,but that is quite concerning.

(39:21):
Have you ever and if you'relistening, please, please,
please, reach back out um, haveyou ever felt so invaluable and
that you don't care, that youalmost feel you would do the
world justice by just not beingawake in the next morning?

Speaker 2 (39:42):
yes, many times, including recently.
I think it's natural,unfortunately, yeah, that's a
hard one and I apologize foranybody that might feel
triggered by that, but I thinkit's a very real question and
thank you to whoever asked that,because it's very brave to come

(40:04):
forward and be honest withyourself about it.
But, yeah, I mean, I'm going tobe 100% full disclosure.
Even as recent as a few weeksago for me and it sucks, it
sucks to feel that way, but weall stumble sometimes.

(40:26):
We all.
No matter how far you come inyour healing you're going to,
there's going to be somethingthat just maybe you didn't get
enough sleep last night and justsomething hit you wrong,
triggered you more than it maybenormally would.
Because I and forgive me, I'mgoing to be real, full

(40:46):
disclosure I'm going through thedamn change my hormones are,
you know, but as women, we haveto recognize that too, that
that's part of this our hormonesand our emotions.
And but yeah, yeah, there aretimes when and I don't think
it's so much that I feel likeI'd be doing, I mean there are.

(41:09):
I have thought I'd be doing theworld a favor, but it's more
that I don't want to feel thepain of it, I don't want to hurt
, I'm tired of hurting, and Ithink that's where it really is,
that I'm going to go one stepfurther with this.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
This individual is I want to respect confidentiality.
This individual is under theage of 17.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, well, I felt that way under the age of 17 as
well.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
And I think that this individual feels lost and
unloved and I love them justbecause they reached out.
I think that, even though theymight not think that they are,
the fact that subconsciouslythey reached out to ask a

(41:59):
question was so empowering.
They need to take that credit.
This person needs to take thatcredit and say I am worthy
because I am seen.
You also may be quitethreatening to people because
they see you as a force to bereckoned with and for you to
feel so unsafe in who you are.

(42:21):
I think there's sometransitioning going on, like
from one gender to another, andI've noticed that because I
started looking at the profile.
But I'm being very confidentialout of respect.
I have all the respect in theworld for this person because
this person literally reachedout, came out of their comfort

(42:44):
zone and wanted to get an answer.
I will tell you that you arenot the only one by far, that
this is more common than youhave any idea the fact that you
recognize that you're so wayahead of yourself, like and I
know in a minute I'll be quietand let Dana say something,
because I think you're so farahead of yourself to already

(43:06):
know and what I can see when Ilooked at your profile.
What I could see in yourprofile is that you recognized
who you are and who you identifyas.
And I am a heterosexual woman,but I completely support the
community.
Um, I have no issue as long aswhoever you're with treats you
with respect and doesn't puttheir hands on you in an

(43:27):
unwarranted manner.
That's all I care about, um,the fact that I have really
close people.
Faith is actually part of thecommunity, and that's my
daughter.
For those who might not know,but for you to recognize who you
were and I see that you'regoing through a transition and
for you to follow that isamazing.

(43:48):
It is so hard for anyone,whether you're 17, 27, 37, 67,
and I'm guessing about your age,that you felt like you could
take those steps to welcome whoyou are in your authentic self
and to see that.
And I'm guessing that maybeyour family's not supporting the
transition.
Maybe you're getting somehostility at school, maybe

(44:10):
you're, you know, having somehostility.
You know just an extendedfamily, but you know what?
And with respect I say this tohelp with them, because the
thing is is that if they loveyou unconditionally, they
support you.
When Faith came to me, I wentand got like this whole book
series called lumberjane andit's a.

(44:32):
It's a lesbian series aboutyoung teenagers who were in camp
and they weren't welcomedbecause of their sexuality.
And I ended up getting her totalk to somebody who was a
married lesbian and I welcomedher with open arms.
I, I didn't care, I was likeand I welcomed her with open
arms.
I, I didn't care, I was like,okay, great, okay.
So why do you think I'm shocked?

(44:52):
I'm not.
My biological brother is, ishomosexual, and you know I wish
nothing but the best, as anyonewho knows me knows that the
thing is is that I'm sure youfeel lost and you know what.
I'm willing to bet that yourfamily are really the ones that
feel lost because they are sostereotypical in this world
today, because everybody in thisworld today cares more about

(45:15):
what other people think thanwhat they think themselves.
They don't care about, like myimmediate family.
They care about the perceptionof what others think from the
outside.
And you know what, in a fewyears they're not going to know
those people anymore anyway.
And if you'd rather sit at arestaurant, go to a restaurant
and look around, everybody's ontheir phone, nobody's

(45:36):
conversating with one another.
They're sitting there.
Just why not just go byyourself?
I mean, you're sitting there atthe table with somebody.
You have no conversation, youdon't hear their voice unless
they're ordering food andthey're head deep down in a
phone.
You know what that's, who youshould feel sorry for, because
that is not how life is supposedto be lived.

(45:56):
It's not supposed to be headdown into a phone.
You know it's funny, because mychiropractor says if you hold
your head down to a phone longenough, you're going to get out
of alignment.
And I think that's a greatmetaphor about you're going to
get out of your way of lifebecause you're holding your head
up high.
You are acknowledging that youmay have been born not the way
you feel your best.

(46:18):
Like you know, I was born withtwo legs and two arms and I
recently lost an arm and a hand,and now I'm having to tell
myself psychologically that I'mmeant to be this way because I'm
here to help other people andit stinks and it hurts and
everything in my life has to bedone different.
I've learned how to tie shoesone handed and the thing is is

(46:39):
that you can learn to do thingsyour own way and when you take a
different journey.
That's not common.
It's so much more beautifulbecause you get to see things no
one else does and I just I knowI'm rattling on to other people
and I'm sorry for taking thisminute, but I'm not sorry for
talking to you and telling youhow unbelievably proud I am of
you that you have recognized andgone ahead and started.

(47:00):
So because you've started yourtransition, you know you're
worth the fight.
You know you're worth gettingup, dusting yourself off and
keep going.
And I'm here, I know Dana'shere.
If you want to talkconfidentially, none of anything
you say will ever go anywhere.
It'll.
It'll just be three amazingkick ass people having a
conversation and to help witheverybody else.

(47:21):
That's my two cents.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
No, I love that and I agree a hundred percent and
thank you for saying all that.
You know I also have two peopleclose to me and out of their
privacy.
You know I will keep their youknow relationships to me private
, but once transgender and oneis homosexual.
But to me my thing is that,even taking that out of the

(47:43):
equation, we're all people andif people see you and want to
put you in a box and put a labelon you, that's the problem and
I could go into a whole lectureabout that.
I don't let people put me in abox anymore.

(48:11):
Sexual identity but it was mymother straightening my hair and
telling me to stop rolling myR's and don't tell anyone that
we're Puerto Rican.
And we got to fit in with thewhite people and we got to wear
gap clothes.
Now, not this frilly stuff yourgrandma's buying you to wear,
that's all colorful and floraland all these crazy prints,
because then they'll know thatwe're Hispanic.
It is so shaming.
We're shamed enough incircumstances where we're made

(48:35):
to feel less than, but whensomebody is shaming you for who
you identify as, who youauthentically are, god damn.
Forgive me, but that, just thatgnaws at my soul because I was
that kid and, yes, I thinkprobably 12, 13 years old was

(48:56):
the first time I thought that Ididn't want to be alive, and I
even had a mother and astepfather that were telling me
that I was never meant to existbecause I was an oopsie, doopsie
.
You know teenage pregnancy.
She didn't want me before shehad me, she didn't want me.
She still doesn't want me.
She has nothing to do with me,my mother.
So take that.

(49:17):
I mean it's hard, but here'sthe thing.
You were born, you were meantto be here.
You are here and I don't carewhat you look like, I don't care
who you are attracted to, Idon't care if you have 10 legs,
two legs, no legs, purple hair,green hair, blue skin.
You are a human being, and wetalked about puzzle pieces

(49:42):
before.
Maybe you don't fit in thatpuzzle.
Maybe you don't fit in yourfamily puzzle.
They don't understand you, theydon't let you in, they don't
accept you.
Who cares?
Neither did mine.
Kept trying to force myself intothese little spots where, well,
maybe I'll fit in here, maybeI'll fit in there.
You know what?
Maybe I don't have to fit inanywhere.

(50:03):
Maybe I can just be me and lovepeople with an open heart and
be open to people loving me forwho I am.
You know, I mean it's nice whenpeople say, oh, you're so
pretty in this and that I don'tcare.
I don't care, because I don'tcare if I'm pretty, I don't care
if you're pretty, I don't careif you're ugly or I'm ugly, I
care about what's in your heartand what kind of a human being

(50:26):
you are.
You know there are people withphysical disabilities.
My husband's best friend hascerebral palsy and he has so
much social anxiety about youknow the way his arm is kind of,
you know, kind of stuck in andbent a little and he doesn't
have full abilities with hishands and he might not be able
to talk.
You know the best sometimes whocares?

(50:48):
I still love you.
Somebody is going to love you,right?
The people that that see youand see you for who you really
are and see how special you are.
We'll love you.
And the other peopleunfortunately a lot of them, a
lot of the time it's our family.
It's judgment, and you knowwhere judgment comes from is ego
, and you know what ego is.

(51:09):
We can talk about narcissismand how they have to feel better
about themselves by putting youdown.
So to hell with them, to hellwith everybody.
You be who you are, I don'tcare straight, gay, male, female
, male, female, whatever.

(51:34):
You just be exactly who you are.
You bloom, you thrive, you rise.
You give the gift of who youare to this world and people
will see you.
Forget the people that, don'tForget them, move on.
You don't have to hate them,you don't have to wish them ill,
just move on.
You will find your people.
They're out there.
We all have our place.
So just, but never give up.

(51:54):
Because you're here and I agreewith you, victoria, is that you
know, if you can be that youngand be that self-aware, wow, I
cannot wait to see what theadult mind of this young person
has to contribute to this world.
What a beautiful mind and abeautiful soul.

(52:20):
So, but even for people thatare in their sixties and
seventies and just realizingthese things, don't give up.
You're here because you weremeant to be here.
You have something to offer.
It might be that you're raisingyour grandchild or that you
give the best hugs, or whateverit is.
You don't have to be like youknow finding the cure for cancer
or do some like miraculousthing, but you have some gift to
offer this world, stay here,give that gift and be open to

(52:45):
the people who are willing togive you the love in return.
Okay, see how fabulous she is?
Well, no, I think that was afabulous question from a
fabulous young person and Ithink that was a very important
question for people of all ages,in all places in life, because
I felt that way as a youngmother.

(53:05):
I felt that way as a youngperson myself.
I felt this way recently, eventhough my life is blessed and
perfect and literally likepeople would look at me and say
what is your problem?
But you know what we feel, howwe feel and we're entitled to
how we feel, and there's areason why we feel the way we
feel.
But we should not give otherpeople that control and that
power over our minds, because wedeserve to live and we deserve

(53:29):
to be here and be who we are.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Absolutely.
If you could speak to a youngerversion of yourself who is just
starting to recognize thetoxicity within their family,
what would you say and how wouldyou guide them?
And that's for you.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
I have been asked a similar question many times and
all I would say is I would tellmyself it's going to be okay,
because I am a firm believer.
And some might argue with me.
Do I wish my life had been alittle rosier?
Absolutely.
I wished I had a mother who hadthe relationship that you have

(54:09):
with faith.
I wish that I had a mother thatwanted to go wedding dress
shopping with me and that we hada moment, you know, like on say
yes to the dress and, you know,a mother I could call when my
son was sick for the first timeas a newborn baby.
And I didn't have that and itsucked.
I didn't have that and itsucked.

(54:33):
But you know what?
It's okay, because I think thatour lives are meant to play out
the way they're meant to playout and I think if you accept it
and stop looking back andwishing things were different
and wondering why it happenedthat way, you can make some
space in your heart for thepresent and for the future.
Because, honestly, if I hadn'thad all those experiences in my

(54:53):
childhood and then beenbasically primed for the
marriage that I had my firstmarriage, 25 years I mean, it
may sound like I'm trying to besnarky or funny, but I would
have had no content for my books, that's so true.
But I saw my true purpose inlife and I survived all of that.

(55:16):
You know it's something youhave said a million times,
victoria that you've survivedthe worst of your days.
You're still here A hundredpercent of your bad days.
You have survived, and I lovethat and I think about that a
lot, because I have and thathelps give my life meaning now
that if I wouldn't have gonethrough all that, I would not

(55:37):
fully understand it.
And here I had been given the.
Can you tell?
I've been given the gift of gaband I have a degree in
journalism and I can communicate.
I had to experience it all sothat I could accurately
verbalize for other people tounderstand and relate and help
them feel less alone and helpthem hopefully feel and avoid

(56:00):
the pain that I have had to gothrough.
So would I change anything?
No, I don't want to change anyof that, because then I wouldn't
be where I am now, which is ina really good place, despite the
way I just answered the lastquestion.
But that's a result of, you know, that's just showing I think we
need to be easy on ourselvesand give us grace for those
moments when we have thosesetbacks, whether it be suicidal

(56:23):
ideation or just, you know,being triggered and having a
panic attack is that we're allhuman and and we can be healed,
but still have those soft spots.
That's kind of like when Idon't know why we touch our
bruises but it's like, oh, Ihave a bruise, let me touch it
and poke it.
Oh, it hurts.
Well, yeah, it hurts.
Dummy, like you know why do wedo that?

(56:45):
But thank God we have triggersto show us like, hey, you're not
exactly quite healed in thisspot yet.
So, just so you know, it's likeour internal alarm system
letting us know, just in case wemight want to entertain the
possibility of reaching out tosomebody for help, like people
reach out to us.
So you know, I think it'simportant for us not to dwell on

(57:07):
what was.
And I think it's important forus not to dwell on what was.
Let's just take it, learn fromit and grow from it and
understand it as a lesson.
I've heard it said that asetback is really a setup and so
look at it that way, shift yourperspective.
So again, I would just say I'dtell little Dana, teenage Dana.

(57:29):
It's going to be okay, hang inthere, it's going to be all
right.
You're going to be all rightBecause I am and I'm getting
there, and it gets better everyday.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Absolutely.
I think we have time for onemore, because I know she's on a
tight schedule.
Have you ever felt responsiblefor your family's dysfunction,
and how do you cope with thatfeeling that?

Speaker 2 (57:51):
is consuming me.
Have I ever felt responsible?
I, you know, I can't say I everfelt fully responsible.
I was definitely scapegoatedand made to feel like I was
responsible, but I, there wasalways something in me that
innately knew that I couldn't.

(58:12):
I didn't possibly have all thatpower in me to cause everybody
to go.
You know, I definitely feellike I stir people's demons up.
There's something about my vibethat when I enter a room I
don't know what happens, but Ithink it's just.

(58:33):
My core value is honesty andtruth, and I think that scares
people because people areusually not wanting to
acknowledge the truth.
My mother wanted to pretendabuse wasn't happening.
My stepfather wanted to pretendhe was a generous, wonderful,
charitable man and and you knowhe was.

(58:54):
I mean your cover of Narc Narcwho's there is just.
That's what I saw when I sawthat cover of your book was my
stepfather with that mask.
You know, look at me, I'm sogreat, but behind closed doors
monster monster, monster.
So, yeah, I don't think I thinkI had to just stop making

(59:19):
everything mean anything aboutme and letting it mean something
more about them, not because Iwas being avoidance, but because
I think anytime somebody abusessomebody else or intentionally
causes any harm on anyone else,that says more about them than
it does the person that they'revictimizing.

(59:41):
What is your thought on that?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
I did.
Growing up I did.
I felt responsible because Icouldn't understand how
everything that happened was myfault, and so I started to think
okay, then I they had to quitwhat they were doing, and I and

(01:00:09):
I was a burden.
And you know, when I wasgetting older, they would tell
me I hated my grandparents andanybody who knows me for five
seconds knows that's a farce,because I live and breathe for
them.
I have both of their facestattooed on my back and you know
it's literally to to hear that.
But growing up, and what wouldjust blow my mind is that a man,

(01:00:31):
aka father, stepfather, issupposed to be your daughter's
first love.
It's supposed to be the manthat shows you how you are to be
treated.
And we're talking about atotally different generation for
the both of us than you knownow, where I can't tell you how
it is to have two dads or twomoms.
I'm talking about my personalexperience, where you know I

(01:00:54):
grew up wanting and longing forthat from my dad, because I
definitely wasn't getting itfrom my mom.
My mom never hugged me, nevertold me she loved me, she never
told my dad, and so I never sawany affection from the two of
them, I never would feelvalidated.
You know, no matter what I did,I was singing and the choir and

(01:01:16):
they would not let me practice.
You're causing too much ruckus.
He played the organ and I wouldsay can I sing while you play?
No, because I got to payattention, I have to listen, and
so I felt like everything thathappened was a burden.
If they brought dinner home fromsomewhere and it was cold, it
was my fault.
Even if I didn't go with themto go get it, it was my fault

(01:01:40):
because the food was cold.
So I did feel like it wascompletely my responsibility,
like I would be blamed.
Now, as an adult, you go backand look at this and be like
what the hell?
Like your perfect example.
If they ordered dinner back,then you would order it and go
pick it up.
So let's just say they wereordering dinner at six.
Let's just say somethinghappened at five or five, 15.

(01:02:01):
Oh, we got home late because wegot stuck in traffic, and
that's your fault because, forwhatever reason, so they ordered
dinner at six, but in traffic,and that's your fault because,
for whatever reason.
So they ordered dinner at six,but because they got home late
at five, or whatever the pointis, it's my fault, dinner's cold
.
And back then, when you'relittle, you're like I didn't
mean for it to be cold, I'msorry, you know.
And then it'd be like well,it's cold and it's your fault.

(01:02:23):
So I did feel like everythingwas on me.
And then, as I grew older andolder, I kept feeling like a
void.
And then I realized, you know,when I went to some of my
friends' birthday parties and Iwould say what did you wish for?
Well, you're not supposed totell, well, can you tell me what
you wish for?
And they were like why?
And I was like cause I don'tthink what I wish for is right.

(01:02:44):
And they're like what do youmean?
And I would tell them, from theearliest time I remember, which
was my five year old birthdayparty, that I remember wishing
that they would divorce.
That was what I blew out on mycake.
You know that I wish that theywere no longer married and that
I would go with my grandparents,and that is that's a tough way
to grow up, and I hated Sundays,because Sundays, when I was

(01:03:07):
there with the bio parents, andFridays I would go to my
grandparents and then in thesummer I was with my
grandparents, but the you learnto cope with it because as I got
older and older and by thegrace of God, having my
grandparents they would say youknow, you're fabulous, you're
amazing, you're beautiful.
You know you have such agorgeous voice and my
grandmother played piano so shewould play and let me sing with

(01:03:29):
her, and, and so those are waysthat I learned because they
would be night and day from the.
That was the house and mygrandparents was home and you
learn the difference.
You take that with you.
I totally understand thisquestion because you, you feel
so responsible.
I can't turn off my brain atnight.

(01:03:50):
I wish that I could.
I feel like it goes intooverkill, like overkill mode at
night, because when I'm working,I'm focused and I have
something to focus on that I'mworking on and the tasks at hand
.
And when you're laying down,you know they say the average
person, I don't know it's likeanywhere from 16 to 25 minutes
to fall asleep or whatever.
I'm hours and hours, and hoursbecause I can't shut my brain

(01:04:11):
off and it's like it goes on andon and on and you keep thinking
and thinking and you just can'tstop.
And that's how it was Even whenI was little, it was like what
can I do to make things betterfor them so that they will just
love me?
And growing up it didn't matter.
Like you know, I sang all statechorus.
It didn't matter, it wasn'tgood enough.

(01:04:33):
You know I've done all sorts ofdifferent things and it didn't
matter, it wasn't good enough.
Nothing I did was ever goodenough.
And then I realized and here'sthe epiphany, and and you know,
we still got so many questionswe didn't get to and I really
think this is a great stoppingpoint is one day I looked at
them after being told all mylife I wasn't good enough and

(01:04:53):
that I couldn't bring it up tothe table, that I realized they
weren't good enough, that it wasthem, not me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Yeah, and thank you for saying that, and I just want
to tag along because you justhit the nail on the head,
because for me, like I said, Iwas the scapegoat, I was blamed,
I went through all that samestuff.
But what I think you hit on isthat we realize that we are
responsible for how everybodybehaves, and I absolutely felt

(01:05:25):
that, and what that's called isa relationship dynamic.
They are making you feel likeit is.
You are responsible for whetherthings are pleasant or if
they're not pleasant, and so youlearn that you have to people,
please, you have to.
You know, I was theperfectionist, always striving
for more, do more be more, tryto be get approval.

(01:05:48):
Striving for more, do more bemore, try to be get approval.
If I sent, something was goingto go awry by an expression or
whatever, I would make sure todo whatever I had to do to calm
the situation, deflate thesystem, deescalate things so
that there would be no abuse, tokeep the peace.
And that's where we startfeeling responsible.
And so, whether you feel likeyou really were the problem or

(01:06:10):
you were not, the problem you'remade to, you're put in the
position of.
Everything hinges on you, onwhat you say what you do, the
look you give somebody, the wayyou chew your food, whatever it
is, hinges on you, and it's awonderful power to be given, but
it's a real burden of a powerto be given when you are a child

(01:06:31):
and should not be burdened whenthat, when your parents decide
they don't want to be parents,they want to be your abusers
instead.
So I'm sorry for whoever askedthat question, because we know
what that's like too well, butit's very common and you just
have to remember it's not you,it really is them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, we are definitely goingto have to have a second maybe
third episode for questions andanswers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
I love it because it really gets them to get the
questions answered they want,and that's what we're here for
and what great questions, by theway.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Thank you to everybody for these amazing
questions.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
These are really getting to the core of things,
so I love it.
And C, I'm actually going toedit that little skip of part
where we talk about thatindividual and I'm going to try
and send that as a file to thatperson and see, because if I
can't get them to answer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah, but anybody that's out there, I want you to
feel comfortable.
Message Victoria on socialmedia.
Message me on Twitter, onFacebook, instagram, tiktok,
whatever you have a website, acontagious smilecom.
You can access me on Dana asDiazcom.
We are both here, bothavailable to anybody that wants

(01:07:58):
to reach out.
We will try to help you thebest we can, so don't hesitate
ever, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
And we will call it for this episode and we thank
you all for listening and weapologize if we didn't get to
your question, but we will.
We will get to your question, Ipromise you.
So keep your chins up andrealize again.
You have survived 100% of yourworst days.
You are a force to be reckonedwith and don't give up on you
because we're not giving up onyou.
Bye, guys.