May 9, 2025 • 45 mins
The unexpected viral success of our podcast has revealed a disturbing truth: millions of people recognize the nightmare of narcissistic abuse. While gratified to reach so many, we're heartbroken that our stories resonate with such a vast audience.
This episode takes a dark turn as we explore the shocking reality of narcissistic retaliation. Dana shares a chilling recent incident where someone targeted her daughter Faith's medical insurance shortly after our podcast gained popularity—calling to cancel coverage for a child who nearly lost her life earlier this year. This perfectly demonstrates how narcissists operate: identifying your most vulnerable point and striking there deliberately, even years after you've escaped their direct control.
We dive deep into the ongoing nature of narcissistic abuse, revealing how going "no contact" often isn't the end but merely shifts the battlefield. From smear campaigns that isolate victims from family to intimidation tactics designed to remind you they're still watching, narcissists refuse to relinquish control easily. These aren't just petty annoyances—they're calculated psychological warfare designed to maintain power over your life.
The conversation turns deeply personal as we share our experiences with family estrangement, the pain of watching family gatherings happen without you, and the lifelong journey of healing from being told you're not "enough" by those who should love you unconditionally. We also address a heartfelt message from a listener questioning her strength, reminding everyone that survival itself is evidence of extraordinary resilience.
For anyone currently trapped in the fog of narcissistic abuse or struggling through its aftermath, know this: you're stronger than you realize, you deserve peace, and you're absolutely not alone. Join us next episode for a special Q&A where we'll answer your questions about narcissistic abuse, recovery, and our personal journeys.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good evening and welcome to another episode of
Narc.
Narc, who's there?
Help, I'm gasping for air.
That's a mouthful.
But wow, we are really gettinga lot of attention with this
series.
I'm more than blessed to haveDana co-host this whole series
with me.
This is my ride or die andshe's amazing and it breaks my
(00:23):
heart how many people can feelit, what it is we're going
through.
But, holy Toledo, like crazy,crazy, I don't even know.
I'm gonna say hey to Dana andlet her talk for a second,
because I haven't looked today,um, at the numbers but I've been
in hi.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We've been in the millions, though, which which
baffles me too, and I agree withyou.
I mean, of course, when you dosomething, you set out to reach
as many people as possible withthe message, but it is also
disturbing to know that so manypeople can relate to the things
we've been through, whether it'sa narcissistic spouse or ex you
(01:04):
know, person you dated, or aparent or a sibling, or a friend
, or whoever my gosh we were.
I mean, it's kind of anepidemic in itself.
So I'm glad that we can be hereand be of help, but I just wish
the world wasn't such a nastyplace for so many of us.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Absolutely so.
The first episode just onTikTok had just shy of 3 million
.
The second episode, as of now,had 3.5 million, and the third
episode is just a few digitsaway from 2 million.
Wow, as of right now.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, again I don't know what to say.
I mean, I appreciate everybodylistening, but I wish people
didn't have to.
This is not something we wantpeople to endure, especially
because you know, for you, youexperienced I mean, I think
everybody that experiences somesort of abuse, whether it's with
a narcissist or not.
(02:08):
There's the psychologicalaspect that you know.
You can go decades into yourlife and still be dealing with
it.
You know, as I admittedly am,but you have experienced the
severity of the physical end ofit as well and you know, still,
you know, have those same issueswith your daughter, and just,
(02:31):
it's just so.
There are just no words to knowthat so many other people are
going through this to someextent or another, because the
psychological is bad enoughwithout the sexual and the legal
and the financial, and then,like you know, the physical and
the lifelong effects of it,literally.
I mean, what are we doing toeach other?
(02:51):
What happened to humanity?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right.
And then, on top of it, the onething I love is that they hear
us tell them that they're notalone.
Because they're not alone andpeople are reaching out to us,
that the reach that this isgoing is just crazy.
You know, when people aresending messages that they're so
thankful for us and that itdoes feel like a verbal hug.
(03:15):
I've had people say that theyfeel like we're verbally hugging
them, which I've never heardthat term.
I love it.
I think it's great.
They feel like we're givingthem a soft, verbal hug to let
them know that they're not aloneand that we have gone through
this and you know that's.
That's why we're doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, it's called validation.
That's what that is, and andthat's the thing about you and I
is that we are both,fortunately, in positions where
we are safe, we are protectedand therefore we have nothing to
lose by opening our mouths foreverybody now.
So that's what we're here to dois just expose it for what it
(03:49):
is and say what other people maynot be able to even really
articulate themselves, so thatthey can understand it and
hopefully avoid it in the future.
But yeah, we're definitely herefor everybody and glad to be.
So what are we going to speakup about today, ma'am?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I just have to put aside it and I'm going to be
very cryptic.
I'm not going to, and so I knowyou'll know who this is.
So I've had retaliation on theNART NART who's there.
I did let's see how cryptic Ican be about it.
So somebody called and tried toget Faith's insurance stopped.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Oh, that's a nice thing to do for a girl that
needs medical attention asfrequently as she does.
That's great, that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
A letter was left at my husband's place of employment
that had our names on it andwriting that I knew the moment I
saw it and it was opened mailby the federal government that
(05:06):
they opened and then they put itin this envelope and it said
that I have to prove that Faithis in need of her insurance
because they've been notifiedthat she might not need it
anymore, that they've beennotified that she might not need
(05:27):
it anymore.
And anybody who has everlistened to us knows that we
almost lost her so many times atthe beginning of the year.
Yes, and it also says that likewe didn't notify them of a
phone number change and addresschange and I was like, yes, I
did, cause I take notes oneverything, so I call and there,
(05:47):
and then not only this, but thedate of the letter is like
weeks ago and the date of myinterview is in like the next
day.
So I call a number and I'm onhold forever to get somebody and
I'm like I need to change thephone number and address that
you guys have on file so thatwhen they call me for my
interview, if they call theright number and I that you guys
have on file, so that when theycall me for my interview, they
call the right number.
And I was like I did not calland change this.
(06:09):
And I said I don't understandhow this got changed.
You cannot change your numberwith them online.
You have to call a number andtalk to somebody directly.
And so they were like, well, Isaid can I put a password on the
account?
No, and I was like, okay, well,how do I prevent this from
happening again?
(06:30):
And they said, well, when youcalled in, I was like it wasn't
me and they said they providedyour name, your social, your
date of birth, your daughter'sname, where she was born, your
mother's's maiden name andchanged your address and phone
number and anyone who could calland say that they were you
(06:53):
could do this.
And I said could you tell mewhen this happened?
And they told me, and ithappened to be one week after
the release of the narc-narcbook.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And that's all I'm going to say.
Well, I'm sorry you had toexperience that, but I think
that if people don't understandyet how far and how I mean how
cruel and vile narcissists canbe, perfect example.
That is a perfect examplebecause I too have.
(07:29):
I didn't actually even put itin my second book, but there was
a circumstance when I was ateenager that I, for reasons of
my own well-being and that of anunborn child that I was
carrying, carrying, did notshare with my mother and
stepfather at the time.
But I was also told that shehad found out by calling and
(07:50):
pretending to be me and it's.
You know, I just I will neverunderstand how people can do
that, never mind to their ownchild, to put them in that kind
of danger, but theirgrandchildren as well, or any
other human being.
(08:10):
Yeah, I mean faith because I Imean she's not even my kid, but
I think I and thousands of otherpeople were watching over last
Christmas.
While we were all bakingcookies and baking hams, you
were in a hospital, not evengetting a break to have a bite
of a sandwich.
Never mind, could you afford onebecause of all of the costs of
(08:33):
the.
I mean, honestly, I lost trackof how many surgeries she
endured to keep her alive aliveand we were all praying and
hoping and it went on for monthsand she just got her last tube
out and is finally free of thatmess and we're all crossing our
fingers that the worst is over.
(08:54):
But to have the nerve to evenif they have an issue with you,
it's baseless anyway.
But to mess with faith'smedical care, she could
literally, literally.
I don't even want to say theword because I'm not going to
put that energy in the universe,but that's disgusting, that is
(09:17):
absolutely disgusting and I'm sosorry that you have to deal
with this now thank you, but youknow I, you know I told Michael
I was like I can't wrap my headaround why somebody would do
this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Like I just can't, I can't understand.
And he was like that's becauseyou're not like them.
And I said I understand thatI'm not like them, but I don't
get how someone could do this toan innocent child.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You know, it's not about doing it to the child,
it's about doing it to you.
Because this is the thing aboutnarcissists the good ones, the
real special ones.
They know where to get you.
Where it hurts yep, they know.
They're watching, they'relistening all the while.
They know what to do.
And if something ever happenedto faith, I'm pretty sure I'd be
(10:03):
right behind you and yourhusband, but there there would
be some hell to pay if somethingever happened to that little
girl.
And let me tell you, I mean,that's that's.
This is a good subject, though,because I I find it interesting
and I I've had this in my ownlife, in my childhood home.
(10:24):
You know, unfortunately you'rea minor.
They have control over you,legally and behind closed doors.
I mean, let's be realistic.
Up until what?
1994, when some ViolenceAgainst Women Act came out, Up
until 1994, anything thathappened behind closed doors was
considered a family matter.
Police didn't want to getinvolved.
(10:45):
A woman couldn't file chargesagainst her husband.
So I mean, there I was growingup in this house.
Child services look the otherway, Police look the other way.
They just figure out well,they'll deal with that on their
own.
They don't care, they didn'tcare.
And when you finally get to be18 and you get the heck out of
there, or hopefully sooner.
(11:06):
I couldn't, unfortunately,before 18.
But they find different ways andit always is interesting to me,
you know, when I'm 48 now andpeople will say, oh well, you
know, I thought your mother, youknow, was estranged.
I thought your stepfatherhasn't spoken to you in years.
Yes, we have had no contact foryears, years.
(11:37):
Yet still to this day, theyfind random ways to affect me,
just as it sounds like happenedto you, without naming people.
But that's the thing about itis that they cannot let go of
that control.
They will find a way to hurt you.
They know how to hurt you andthey got to get a little more
creative.
When you're not under theircontrol, when, when you're not
legally in their custody, whenyou're legally not married to
them anymore, whatever it is,they will still find a way to
(12:00):
hurt you, and they just know,they always know exactly how to
specifically hurt you, andthrough you, it's your daughter.
For most anybody it would betheir child, but but
specifically because of Faith'smedical issues and her history,
her very recent history, that'sa disgusting and nasty thing to
do.
It's just vile.
This goes well beyond the factthat they could even walk this
(12:26):
earth without consequence isdisgusting to me.
Well, they knew she was in thehospital.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
They knew she was in the hospital.
They knew, they knew she wasfighting for her life.
They knew that she wasn'tsupposed to make it, and still
nothing.
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
No, because they don't care, right, they don't
care.
Anybody who was watchingFacebook or TikTok or whatever,
and watching the angst in yourface when you were sitting
bedside with that little girlback in December and January
because it just went on and onfor months Everyone that saw
(13:03):
your husband sitting theretalking about her condition,
giving updates that had a heart,was teary-ed and wish they
could be there to do more.
So, yeah, for her own, forpeople that are biologically
related to her to be able toturn their backs and then try to
take away her medical caredisgusting.
(13:24):
So, um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm rarelyspeechless, but I don't know
that I have much more to sayabout that, it's just and next
thing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Then they go and take it to his work.
You know it's like come on now.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean, but it's their way of saying we're
watching and we know and we arestill keeping track of you,
because I've had stuff like anote show up on my car in some
random place and it or a textmessage that says, oh, I didn't
realize how close I was to you,and it's like you're looking
around, like, oh, they'rewatching me still, even though
we've had no contact for a while.
It's just their way tointimidate, manipulate, which I
(14:22):
don't know about where you are,but I know in the lovely state
of Illinois.
Here that is considered an actof abuse and that is something
you can get a protection, anorder of protection for if you
go through the rigmarole, whichis not often easy, as I found
out the hard way, but it's scaryand I don't think it's right to
(14:42):
intimidate anyone.
Anyway, when you're I mean I'msure you as well as me, some of
us that have been through somestuff where things have gotten
very violent, even when you moveon, even years later, you're
looking over your shoulder.
At certain places you haveevents that might be more public
, or something like our books,and you're always wondering are
(15:05):
they watching?
Are they seeing this?
Well, yes, because we see peopleon social media scoping out
well, that's their friend.
I know they're not on there forme trying to be my friend.
I know they're aware of it.
That means this one's aware ofit, so it's just their way of
letting us know they're stillthere in the background and I
(15:26):
don't know why.
Well, yeah, I agree withMichael.
We don't want to be like them,we don't want to be able to
understand them, but we have tobe aware of how they work.
And so this is important stuffto talk about, because I think a
lot of people think that whenyou cut that relationship, when
you cut ties, when you get thatdivorce, everything will be okay
(15:47):
now because you've ended it.
No, that's just the beginningof it, because that's like the
worst thing you can do to anarcissist to say I'm cutting
you off.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's when it usually gets really bad, and
they just never stop, right, youknow, they love to do the
silent treatment where it's likeI'm not talking to you, and
they would literally be standingin front of me, dana, and then,
like my bio dad, talk to my biomom and say tell her I'm right
here.
You know, adolescent, you soundlike I'm right here, you know.
And then you're not going tospeak to me.
Okay, great.
And I now I realize it's bestgift, like, thank you for that.
(16:20):
That was fantastic.
Can I have more?
But they don't want to see ussucceed.
They don't want to see ussuccessful.
And you know, the thing is isthat my bio dad sees my husband
numerous times.
He physically saw him today anddidn't even speak to him,
didn't acknowledge him, lookright at him, locked eyes with
him, didn't acknowledge him,nothing, not a word, and it was
(16:40):
just like.
You know, it's so like now.
It took me so long because nowit's like I go back and I
realize I'm not who you made meout to be.
I'm not who you wanted me to beand you made me out to be this
horrific person who deservedeverything I got because I
(17:01):
stayed, or my bad choice.
Well, you know what?
Here's what I have to say.
You know, as a quote unquotefather, you're supposed to teach
me what is acceptable to haveas a male in my life, and when
you show me, oh, I'm gonna giveyou the silent treatment, or you
know why?
Can't I just be happy, do you?
Don't want me happy aftereverything I've done for you?
Okay, pack my bags here.
We go for the guilt trip, youknow?
(17:23):
And then I get some stupid email.
I don't know if you know this.
I got an email that this was awhile ago.
It was years ago that I hadleft stuff.
Their house, as we all know, ishuge and I left stuff in the
attic.
We have four attics for pryingout loud.
I left stuff in the attic.
They told me that I had lessthan a week to come and get it.
I wasn't allowed there.
Only my husband was, and in itwas so much of Faith's baby
(17:46):
stuff I mean things that shemade me art, stuff like that and
they had the room.
They told me I could storestuff there.
So I did, and that was mystupid fault.
But you know what?
They got rid of everything.
They got rid of things thatfaith made them.
Faith made me and you know what.
The end of the day, I havefaith.
So you know what?
And I have faith in more thanone way.
(18:14):
So when they're sitting thereand they are going through this
and you know he's about to be 80and like, literally, you spend
your time and you're and I know,you know I don't but you're
spinning your wheels likewondering, you know, here's the
thing I might have made some badchoices, but it was because I
had bad directions.
And if I I, you know I wasgiven bad direction.
He did not show me what wasacceptable.
(18:34):
My grandfather did, and I losthim in the most important part
of my life, when I was 15.
So, yes, I made some horriblechoices, I made horrible
decisions and you know what.
But I'm here where I am todayand I'm happy, and he's not.
And I have a soulmate and hedoesn't.
He calls his a roommate, I callmine my soulmate, and there's
(18:54):
so many different things and atthe end of the day, I can put my
head down and not be like youknow what?
How do I do this to someone Ilove?
How can I hurt someone else Ilove so much?
I don't even love them.
I use them when it's, you know,advantageous for growth for
myself, but I don't wantanything to do with them unless
they can do something for me.
I don't do that.
I mean, that's not who I am andthat's not who I stand for, and
(19:18):
that's definitely not who faithis.
So faith tells me all the time.
How did you raise me sodifferent?
And I said I give youeverything they never give me.
And that's what I did.
I made sure you never had to gothrough the hell.
I felt trapped in, like I feltlike everything about me wasn't
good enough, you know, like Iwas never going to be pretty
enough, or I was never going tobe talented enough, or whatever
(19:40):
the case may be.
I was never going to be enough.
There's not a day that goes byI don't tell her I love her.
There's not a day that goes byI don't tell her how proud of
her I am and how talented she isand how amazing she is.
And you know what.
They could be sitting in theirmuseum or whatever you want to
call it.
But you know what?
She's got millions of followers.
She's a published author.
She has done amazing things.
(20:01):
She is the inspiration topeople across this world who
line up asking her to interviewthem, and you know what?
What have you got to say?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
to interview them and you know what?
What have you got to say?
Right, exactly, but again,they're just trying to get to
you and I appreciate youpointing out the age, because I
want people to understand thatit's something that I have
actually said out loud just tomyself, because I'm here alone
and I have nobody to talk toother than you sometimes and
myself and my cat to talk toother than you sometimes and
myself and my cat, but I'm likethey're 50, they're 60, they're
(20:41):
70.
Like these are people thatshould not be acting like 15
year old, petty high school,like it's.
So nobody is better than anyoneelse, and so number one I want
to say right, and that's thething is that we've all made
mistakes.
When you were sitting theresaying you didn't always make.
The thing is, that's life,that's what it is to grow up.
You make bad decisions, youmake the wrong moves, but
(21:04):
sometimes you make the rightdecisions and you learn as you
go.
But the key is learning, andpart of that learning comes with
growth and self-awareness, andI would like to think that most
people would like to go on thatpath continually throughout
their life.
But there are some people, forwhatever reason and honestly I
(21:24):
mean I could go into analysis oftheir pasts and their
upbringings, whatever andprobably find it as well as you
could to you know thepsychological source of why they
are stunted and what exactlyhappened to make them that way.
But it is so sad to think thatsomebody is at 70, 80 years old,
(21:44):
as the case is for us, stillacting like a 12 year old,
trying to like I'm going to getthem back.
I got to figure out another wayto get them back, like, really
you want to.
Your last dying thought isgoing to be how to stick it to
me more, but again, they findways because they are intent on
it.
(22:05):
My mother and stepfather werenot as overt as saying come and
get all your crap because Ididn't leave.
I've learned to pack light.
I've moved enough times whereif I can throw it in a backpack
I'm good, and if I don't need itI don't take it.
But when my first book came outlast year, it was about a month
after my son showed up at myhouse with my baby blanket that
(22:30):
my great-grandma had crochetedfor me.
My mother had had it and Iguess she didn't want it in her
house anymore.
So I guess I should be gratefulthat she at least sent it back.
But you want to know why shesent it back to give.
I mean that gives a messagethat you're not my daughter
anymore.
I don't want you anymore, I amridding of you.
(22:52):
And when you grow up incircumstances like you and I
have and you already feelworthless because you know, like
in my house, I was told I wasan accident, I was a mistake,
never should have been born, allthat stuff, I mean you want to
talk about feeling worthless andnot feeling like enough then to
give me my baby blanket like anF you basically, and to have my
(23:15):
son deliver it, really, really,but that hurt.
I mean 47 years old and I criedbecause I knew my pictures,
that my grandma told me all mypictures had come down you know
how many years ago and Iremember seeing that that's
something they would do when Iwas an adult is if they weren't
happy with me, my pictures wouldcome down off the wall and I'd
(23:37):
get the silent treatment likewe're just gonna erase you
because you weren't a good girl.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You're a tax write-off.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right, exactly, and I'm lucky I was even that.
I think that's the only reasonthat my stepfather legally
adopted me was so I could be atax write-off, because when I
was 12 years old I found outthat he took out a life
insurance policy on me.
There wasn't enough room in thebook for this, but it's very
disturbing.
I found out by accident and I'mlike what is a 12-year-old need
(24:05):
a life insurance policy for?
Well, the way he was treatingme and the way they were trying
to get rid of me and it was onlythree years after that there
were hands around my neck and Iwas being thrown downstairs.
So it's kind of disturbing whenyour parents want you dead or I
say parents, using the wordvery loosely they're supposed to
be your parents but they wantyou dead.
(24:27):
And then they're taking outlife insurance policy so he
could go get a brand newCorvette or something.
Once they got rid of me likethey wanted to.
It's disgusting and sick, butstill you know like had happened
to you and like still happensto me.
There's lies being spread,rumors being circulated, to the
point that I barely have familyleft.
(24:49):
I have.
Maybe that I can count on onehand, the number of family
members from both sides thatactually still have contact with
me.
But you know, we're going intothe holiday season come, you
know well, halloween, I guesspeople don't get together.
But Thanksgiving, christmas,you know, then you have Easter.
After that I get to go onFacebook and watch my families
(25:12):
getting together and it's like Inever even existed, it's like
they were just able to do awaywith me, and that doesn't help a
person feel any less worthless.
So you know, if anybody else outthere can relate, just know
that this is the intent of thenarcissist.
If you do not let them controlyou, if they are disapproving of
you in any way, they will hurtyou, they will go at you.
(25:35):
This is called a smear campaignand to the most extreme extent
it's called nuking.
But it's terrible that we evenuse like military warfare,
political warfare, verbiage todescribe what they do to other
people.
Like, just go on with your lifeand move on like I am, like I'm
(25:55):
not talking to you, I'm notreacting, I'm not even defending
the lies anymore because I'mover it.
If people want to think thatI'm the villain, if they want to
think these terrible thingsabout me, let them.
Let them, because the peoplewho really know me know that
none of that is true or theywould care enough about me to
(26:15):
come to me and say I heard this.
Do you want to explain and giveme an opportunity to do that?
But they don't, because they'rebuying into the BS.
And these narcissists, I hate totell y'all, but they are
convincing.
They are really, really good atwhat they do.
They can put on an act.
I mean, why do you think wemarried some?
(26:37):
I mean that Ted Bundy wascharming and handsome.
We weren't going out on thestreet looking for Chucky with
his little butcher knife and hiscrazy red hair.
Right, nothing against redheads, I love I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I love you, you know, but you think about it and when
you get to that age you're likein your late 70s and whatever.
You always heard that theyrevert back to like a toddler
sense where they, you know.
So you know, like, stop my footand that's the thing, and you
know I still pray for them everysingle night.
I do.
(27:10):
I do, I pray for my abusive exand his family every night
because you know everybody saidto me how do you still have a
smile on your face?
And it's because I was kepthere and faith was kept here and
it was for a reason and I trulybelieve it's to be here with
you and to advocate and to showpeople that you can get over it.
(27:32):
It's not a competition.
How many times you've been hit,you know, god forbid the time
you've been hit just once you'rein our circle.
I mean mean that's.
You know how I see it and Ijust I know that revenge is not
mine to give and I heard that somany times and I truly believe
in my heart.
Like we have one heart and wecan either fill it up with love,
happiness, laughter and joy, orwe can let it just become black
(27:55):
like theirs, and I'm not goingto do that.
And so I really just and I'mstill human and I repent.
My sin and I will say that rightnow is, you know that the fact
is is that if something happens,I just don't want to hear about
it, but I will not be involvedin you know I'm not going to
have my hand in it to say youknow, I mean, these are people
(28:15):
who up down one side of theother, would tell you that
they're Jewish all day long, butthey celebrate Christmas and he
wears a high and he you knowjust everything about it is I'm
Jewish, I'm Jewish.
Do you own a menorah, do you?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
you know, we have that in common.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, I know like faith told him one day you
better hurry up and put a cerealbowl over your head.
Nobody's gonna believe that youown a yarmulke, like you know.
And then that's just it.
It it really is.
When I was coming up with thecover of the book for nart nart,
it was literally like I have tomake it, where people just go
wow, because when you hear fromso many people that you are the
(28:54):
bad person and that you've doneall these horrible things but,
like you don't have a clue thatyour sperm and egg donor take
the person that beat you todeath, storm all on one occasion
, not only do they take him on avacation while you and your
daughter are in the ICU and payfor everything, but then you
(29:17):
find out they put him in my lifeto begin with and pay for
everything, but then you findout they put him in my life to
begin with.
So, with that being said, justthe book itself had to be, the
cover had to be like most peoplejust don't have a clue.
They see, they, they see whatthey want to see, they hear what
they hear and that's what it is.
And that's where it stops.
They never say hey, dana orVictoria, why don't you, you
(29:41):
know, tell us your side of this,or what really happened, or
whatever?
And even with all the proof andall the evidence and everything
else, some people are stillgoing to believe them.
And if that's the case, youknow what?
Get in your boat, go to yourown private Island and you know,
to have a day.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
No, I agree with you, and that's why I've gotten a
lot of flack from people.
You know, even my husband hassaid he's like you are the
sweetest, warmest, most lovingperson.
But he says I don't understandhow you can.
You can cut somebody offwithout a second thought,
without, I mean, you don't eventhink twice about it, and I'm
(30:15):
like I've unfortunately had tolearn in my life to cut it off
and let it go.
You know, I have to be quickabout it, because when somebody
proves who they are or what sidethey're on and I'm not about
taking sides necessarily, but Ithink when a line is drawn and
you clearly side with the personthat has tried to kill me or
(30:40):
intentionally harmed me in someway, you're sure as crap not on
my side and I don't deal withpeople who dance between the
line and play the fence likethat.
There is no, I'm not takingsides, crap.
No, the second you continue toassociate with them, you are
enabling their behavior, you areexcusing that behavior, you are
(31:01):
invalidating everything I havebeen through.
So I'm good, I will move on andI will cut you off and I will
never speak to you again.
I will be polite, you know,like you, I will hello in public
whatever if I have to, but I'mdone with you.
I'm over it, and I don't care ifyou're biologically related or
not.
When that line is drawn, yougot to pick a side.
(31:24):
There's no playing two sides onthat.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, I do want to say to everybody and I'm going
to have to start putting a lotof the responses that I get over
to Dana so we can both talkabout this but I want people to
know that you know, yes, I get.
We've had so many people comeout and say it is so hard.
Nobody understands.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
We understand because we've been there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You know we totally get it.
But I want there was this onelady who did not use her name
when she wrote.
It was just, um, it was anunusual screen name or whatever
in her message and she didn'tsay her name.
But by the way she was writing,I would say maybe she's in our
age group but she is havingshe's in the very beginning of
(32:07):
this, like she's having a reallyhard time and she doesn't think
she's very strong.
And I'm here to tell you that,um, you're stronger than you
know because, yeah, they pick us.
They pick us as the black sheepbecause they put everything on
us.
They put it on us and we arereally.
(32:27):
What these idiots don't realize,these narcissistic morons don't
realize, is that we're the oneswho know the truth and we're
the ones that they really shouldbe afraid of because we can
expose them.
But they try, try to train us,not to.
They try to.
You know, it took me until Iwas in my forties to realize
that I wasn't the one who wasdoing everything wrong, like he
(32:49):
said I was.
You know, like he sneezed and Isaid bless you and I would get
pinched.
I'm like, why do I say that?
Why do?
I say bless you when you sneezeLike.
I should just stop and youreally are so much stronger than
you know and you just need torevert that strength and turn it
around a little bit and realizethat you survived and I say
this all the time when I'mspeaking engagements.
(33:09):
You survived 100% of your worstdays.
And they can't say that becauseif they could, you wouldn't be
their crutch.
They are so unhappy in theirlife.
They're miserable humans.
I don't even like putting themin that category.
There's such unhappy creaturesthat they want to spread their
(33:31):
unhappiness, because miseryloves company.
But the strength you have fromwithin to cut them out of your
life, or if they cut you out oftheir life, the point is you
need to remember is that you'recontinuing to have them no
longer in your daily life.
So that makes you a lotstronger than you have any idea,
and kudos to you for that,because I can tell you I went
(33:53):
back dozens and dozens of timesbegging for their forgiveness
for shit I didn't even do.
You know.
They were mad at me and notspeaking to me for whatever
reason, and I fell on the swordjust to get them to forgive me
for what I was being blamed for,that I wasn't even a part of,
(34:23):
and so for you to literally justtake a moment and realize that
if they did cut you out of theirlife because this reader, like
she, sent me, not subconsciouslyand I would love to hear Dana's
take on this is thatsubconsciously you might not
have shut them out, but yousubconsciously have locked them
out and you are protectingyourself and you are getting
stronger and stronger because ofit, because you are getting
(34:46):
away from it and, even thoughyou might not have been the one
to say I'm done and walk away,you've kept them away and you've
locked that door and you didn'tgo back and say I'm sorry for
stuff you didn't do.
And that shows such strength andadmiration and I am inspired by
exactly what you're doingbecause you don't realize that
(35:06):
that takes a lot of guts, ittakes a lot of strength, and I
am so proud to even have beensomeone that you chose to write
to and I would love if you wouldwrite me back and tell me it's
okay for me to share it withDana because I didn't pass it to
her just because I'm so big onthe confidentiality when I work
with people on domestic violence.
So I keep it very confidentialand that's why I didn't give any
(35:28):
of her personal information,but I would love for her to read
it.
It was so heartfelt and soloving.
But I mean, do you agree that,like she needs to realize her
strength in this?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
This is what I equate it to when I tell people
because I always said I neverasked to be strong, I never
thought I was that strong.
People still tell me I'm strongand all this stuff and I'm like
no, I just didn't have a choice.
Because if I saw my kidsstrapped to a railroad track and
a train coming, I'm pretty sureI would turn into Superwoman
(36:01):
and do things at lightning speedto save my son's life.
And when you're in thesesituations, I think that people,
until they're in them, don'treally get what survival means.
They think survival like thereality show Survivor, like
you're in a jungle and you'retrying to make sure a snake
(36:22):
doesn't stick you with poisonousvenom and that you have water
for how many days?
No, survival is too often herein the freedom of the United
States of America, behind theclosed doors of our own homes,
where we're supposed to be themost safe and secure.
And especially when you're akid and those are your parents
(36:42):
who are supposed to keep you,protect you, make sure you have
shelter, food, nurture you, allthese things, and you are
basically left to fend foryourself, literally for life or
death.
And then you're that scaredlittle girl that's afraid of
people.
But you grow up and trustanother man and then you end up
in another situation whereyou're being abused left and
(37:05):
right but you're being gaslitthis time because everything you
think, you're told you don't isnot real.
That didn't happen that way.
I never said that you took itwrong.
You're sensitive.
Happen that way.
I never said that you took itwrong.
You're sensitive, you're crazy,all these things.
And then we start to doubtourselves.
There's that crazy making.
So by the time you kind of openyour eyes and think maybe it's
(37:26):
not me, maybe it's them, thenthey start really working you.
So if you don't already thinkeverything is your fault and
that you are the problem,they're going to work harder to
make you feel that way, exceptonce you really take those rose
colored glasses off and see it.
You can't unsee it.
And then there's a littleresistance and there's this push
and pull, and for me it went onfor 15 years until I finally
(37:50):
pulled the plug on it, but notwithout getting to the point
where he actually was planningto kill me and he wanted me dead
.
And even after the divorce itgot the most violent.
So what people need tounderstand it's not about being
strong.
Don't label.
You know how I love labels.
Don't label yourself.
Just get through the next fiveminutes, then get through the
(38:12):
next hour and do what you needto do to take care of you.
Keep yourself safe, protectyourself.
If you have children, animals,whatever else, do what you can
do.
If you want to call that strong, call it strong.
You want to call it somethingelse, call it something else.
But everybody is in thatsituation just trying to survive
(38:32):
, and that's what that really is, but I'm going to go so far.
One more thing just to tag on tothat, because it was my initial
feeling when you startedtelling this story, about this
letter, and I probably talkedabout this before.
But I remember as a teenagereven just I remember saying it
to my great grandma that I thinkone of the hardest things in
(38:52):
life, one of the worst feelingsto have, is to find out that you
loved somebody or were moreinvested in a relationship than
they were, whether that's family, romantic, whatever because
that's betrayal when they betrayyour trust, when they betray
your heart.
That way, it's hard not to feellike there's something wrong
(39:13):
with you, like you think it mustbe me, because I did everything
.
I love them with all my heart.
I, I, whatever it is, but theystill.
I wasn't enough for them.
And you start to generalize itand think, if I wasn't enough
for them, then I'm not enoughfor any everybody.
And and we have to stop doingthat to ourselves because it's
such a disservice and we had alittle bit of a conversation on
(39:41):
another subject before this, butit speaks to this very well is
that we have to remind ourselveswe may not be enough for some
people.
I will never in my entire life,no matter what I could
literally come down from theheavens and be proclaimed God or
Jesus here on earth.
And it will not be enough formy mother to be proud of me.
She wants nothing to do with me.
I'm good now.
(40:02):
I accept that.
Well, thank you.
But I'm saying like people needto get past this not being good
enough for that person, becauseI don't want to have to try to
prove myself.
If somebody truly loves me,cares about me, even just likes
me as a friend, I'm going to beenough, I'm going to be just
right.
And there's going to be people.
(40:23):
I've been told by people oh,you're too much, you're too loud
, you're too outspoken, I'm toothis.
Well, you know what Then?
We're not the right people, butthere are the right people.
They come up, those are yourpeople and the world goes round
because there are all kinds ofpeople with all kinds of
different qualities.
You just have to find the ones.
It's kind of like we talkedabout puzzles before.
(40:45):
You're a puzzle piece.
You just got to find out whereyou fit.
And you're not going to fitsometimes in the places, and I
think this is why I know for mebut I think a lot of people can
relate why sometimes we get sodepressed about it is that I
don't belong with my family, Idon't belong with my husband's
family, I don't belong here orthere or wherever, because we
(41:06):
don't belong in the places thatI guess society or we dictate to
ourselves where we shouldbelong, where we're supposed to
organically fit.
We think something is wrongwith us.
But you know, sometimes youjust have to look in the mirror
and say maybe I'm just thatspecial and I just fit with my
(41:27):
extra special puzzle people,because they're out there and we
have to remind ourselves too.
For those of us who are faithful, one of the things that helped
keep me in perspective when Iwas trying to get past this idea
of not being enough for mymother and not being enough for
my stepfather and then myex-husband, and like almost
everybody I've come across in mylife, is that I am a child of
(41:50):
God.
I'm not my mother's child.
She gave birth to me.
I am thankful that, forwhatever reason, she kept me
alive very minimally, but shedid, and that I am here.
But I am God's child now.
I am not necessarily hers.
She does not possess me in anyway.
(42:10):
So I am here to do his will, todo his work, and that's why
we're here trying to help otherpeople that have been in these
situations.
But nobody is ever alone.
Nobody should ever, ever feellike they're not enough, and it
makes my heart sad because I amone of those people.
I am still working on it.
So so believe me when I say Iget it and I have my days and I
(42:33):
still cry, in fetal positionsometimes, because we are all
human and we feel and we hurtand things remind us of that
pain.
But you got to stand up andsmile and say you know what,
though?
There's nothing wrong with me,because really I'm not alone.
Let me scroll through my phoneand see all these people.
You know I can always count onVictoria here to be the you're
(42:56):
amazing and, hey, beautiful, andall this and I'm like, oh, I
just want to put her in mypocket and take her home, you
know, because I need thatcheerleader.
But we all have those people.
We just don't focus on thembecause we are so focused on the
people that don't want us, thepeople that reject us.
Stop looking for reasons toreject yourself.
Go to the other side.
(43:17):
You know it's the side thing.
I do hate picking sides, butyou got to side with yourself
once in a while.
We all need to.
Sorry for that little monologue, but it's so important.
No, I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I'm going to be in her pocket, like I always send
her messages and I'm like, hey,how's your day's like?
And Faith, of course, is nowswearing up and down that this
is her, her aunt, like I can'thave a conversation and she's
like I'm telling Aunt Dana.
I'm like go tell Aunt Dana.
She's like I'm gonna tell herright now.
Like you want my phone, you gotell her, you know.
So I, I love that.
(43:48):
But uh, I wanted to ask how doyou feel about our next session?
Is that we I've been puttingtogether a list of questions
that we've been getting that wedo a Q&A session?
I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
I love it.
We've got a lot.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
So anybody who has any questions, either ask myself
, ask Ms Dana, and we'll putthem all together and on the
next one we will answer all ofthese questions that we're
getting all together and on thenext one we will answer all of
these questions that we'regetting.
I figured we would wait till wegot enough to do a whole
session on Q&A and I think thatwill be great, I do.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
That would be amazing .
I love that.
I love that because we want todefinitely answer questions
specifically to what people wantto hear and anything about
narcissism, abuse, domesticviolence, something specific to
Victoria, to me, if you've readeither one of our books and have
a question about a book, abouta scenario, we are more than
(44:43):
happy to answer that.
We are both obviously very openand unfiltered.
Yeah, we're definitelyunfiltered.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in, and in our
next session we're going to dothe Q&A.
Yay, that'll be fun.
Thank you for being with me.
Again, I'm going to go jumpback in your.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Please do, bye, bye.
Good evening and welcome to another episode of
Narc.
Narc, who's there?
Help, I'm gasping for air.
That's a mouthful.
But wow, we are really gettinga lot of attention with this
series.
I'm more than blessed to haveDana co-host this whole series
with me.
This is my ride or die andshe's amazing and it breaks my
(00:23):
heart how many people can feelit, what it is we're going
through.
But, holy Toledo, like crazy,crazy, I don't even know.
I'm gonna say hey to Dana andlet her talk for a second,
because I haven't looked today,um, at the numbers but I've been
in hi.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We've been in the millions, though, which which
baffles me too, and I agree withyou.
I mean, of course, when you dosomething, you set out to reach
as many people as possible withthe message, but it is also
disturbing to know that so manypeople can relate to the things
we've been through, whether it'sa narcissistic spouse or ex you
(01:04):
know, person you dated, or aparent or a sibling, or a friend
, or whoever my gosh we were.
I mean, it's kind of anepidemic in itself.
So I'm glad that we can be hereand be of help, but I just wish
the world wasn't such a nastyplace for so many of us.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Absolutely so.
The first episode just onTikTok had just shy of 3 million
.
The second episode, as of now,had 3.5 million, and the third
episode is just a few digitsaway from 2 million.
Wow, as of right now.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, again I don't know what to say.
I mean, I appreciate everybodylistening, but I wish people
didn't have to.
This is not something we wantpeople to endure, especially
because you know, for you, youexperienced I mean, I think
everybody that experiences somesort of abuse, whether it's with
a narcissist or not.
(02:08):
There's the psychologicalaspect that you know.
You can go decades into yourlife and still be dealing with
it.
You know, as I admittedly am,but you have experienced the
severity of the physical end ofit as well and you know, still,
you know, have those same issueswith your daughter, and just,
(02:31):
it's just so.
There are just no words to knowthat so many other people are
going through this to someextent or another, because the
psychological is bad enoughwithout the sexual and the legal
and the financial, and then,like you know, the physical and
the lifelong effects of it,literally.
I mean, what are we doing toeach other?
(02:51):
What happened to humanity?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right.
And then, on top of it, the onething I love is that they hear
us tell them that they're notalone.
Because they're not alone andpeople are reaching out to us,
that the reach that this isgoing is just crazy.
You know, when people aresending messages that they're so
thankful for us and that itdoes feel like a verbal hug.
(03:15):
I've had people say that theyfeel like we're verbally hugging
them, which I've never heardthat term.
I love it.
I think it's great.
They feel like we're givingthem a soft, verbal hug to let
them know that they're not aloneand that we have gone through
this and you know that's.
That's why we're doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, it's called validation.
That's what that is, and andthat's the thing about you and I
is that we are both,fortunately, in positions where
we are safe, we are protectedand therefore we have nothing to
lose by opening our mouths foreverybody now.
So that's what we're here to dois just expose it for what it
(03:49):
is and say what other people maynot be able to even really
articulate themselves, so thatthey can understand it and
hopefully avoid it in the future.
But yeah, we're definitely herefor everybody and glad to be.
So what are we going to speakup about today, ma'am?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I just have to put aside it and I'm going to be
very cryptic.
I'm not going to, and so I knowyou'll know who this is.
So I've had retaliation on theNART NART who's there.
I did let's see how cryptic Ican be about it.
So somebody called and tried toget Faith's insurance stopped.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Oh, that's a nice thing to do for a girl that
needs medical attention asfrequently as she does.
That's great, that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
A letter was left at my husband's place of employment
that had our names on it andwriting that I knew the moment I
saw it and it was opened mailby the federal government that
(05:06):
they opened and then they put itin this envelope and it said
that I have to prove that Faithis in need of her insurance
because they've been notifiedthat she might not need it
anymore, that they've beennotified that she might not need
(05:27):
it anymore.
And anybody who has everlistened to us knows that we
almost lost her so many times atthe beginning of the year.
Yes, and it also says that likewe didn't notify them of a
phone number change and addresschange and I was like, yes, I
did, cause I take notes oneverything, so I call and there,
(05:47):
and then not only this, but thedate of the letter is like
weeks ago and the date of myinterview is in like the next
day.
So I call a number and I'm onhold forever to get somebody and
I'm like I need to change thephone number and address that
you guys have on file so thatwhen they call me for my
interview, if they call theright number and I that you guys
have on file, so that when theycall me for my interview, they
call the right number.
And I was like I did not calland change this.
(06:09):
And I said I don't understandhow this got changed.
You cannot change your numberwith them online.
You have to call a number andtalk to somebody directly.
And so they were like, well, Isaid can I put a password on the
account?
No, and I was like, okay, well,how do I prevent this from
happening again?
(06:30):
And they said, well, when youcalled in, I was like it wasn't
me and they said they providedyour name, your social, your
date of birth, your daughter'sname, where she was born, your
mother's's maiden name andchanged your address and phone
number and anyone who could calland say that they were you
(06:53):
could do this.
And I said could you tell mewhen this happened?
And they told me, and ithappened to be one week after
the release of the narc-narcbook.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And that's all I'm going to say.
Well, I'm sorry you had toexperience that, but I think
that if people don't understandyet how far and how I mean how
cruel and vile narcissists canbe, perfect example.
That is a perfect examplebecause I too have.
(07:29):
I didn't actually even put itin my second book, but there was
a circumstance when I was ateenager that I, for reasons of
my own well-being and that of anunborn child that I was
carrying, carrying, did notshare with my mother and
stepfather at the time.
But I was also told that shehad found out by calling and
(07:50):
pretending to be me and it's.
You know, I just I will neverunderstand how people can do
that, never mind to their ownchild, to put them in that kind
of danger, but theirgrandchildren as well, or any
other human being.
(08:10):
Yeah, I mean faith because I Imean she's not even my kid, but
I think I and thousands of otherpeople were watching over last
Christmas.
While we were all bakingcookies and baking hams, you
were in a hospital, not evengetting a break to have a bite
of a sandwich.
Never mind, could you afford onebecause of all of the costs of
(08:33):
the.
I mean, honestly, I lost trackof how many surgeries she
endured to keep her alive aliveand we were all praying and
hoping and it went on for monthsand she just got her last tube
out and is finally free of thatmess and we're all crossing our
fingers that the worst is over.
(08:54):
But to have the nerve to evenif they have an issue with you,
it's baseless anyway.
But to mess with faith'smedical care, she could
literally, literally.
I don't even want to say theword because I'm not going to
put that energy in the universe,but that's disgusting, that is
(09:17):
absolutely disgusting and I'm sosorry that you have to deal
with this now thank you, but youknow I, you know I told Michael
I was like I can't wrap my headaround why somebody would do
this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Like I just can't, I can't understand.
And he was like that's becauseyou're not like them.
And I said I understand thatI'm not like them, but I don't
get how someone could do this toan innocent child.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You know, it's not about doing it to the child,
it's about doing it to you.
Because this is the thing aboutnarcissists the good ones, the
real special ones.
They know where to get you.
Where it hurts yep, they know.
They're watching, they'relistening all the while.
They know what to do.
And if something ever happenedto faith, I'm pretty sure I'd be
(10:03):
right behind you and yourhusband, but there there would
be some hell to pay if somethingever happened to that little
girl.
And let me tell you, I mean,that's that's.
This is a good subject, though,because I I find it interesting
and I I've had this in my ownlife, in my childhood home.
(10:24):
You know, unfortunately you'rea minor.
They have control over you,legally and behind closed doors.
I mean, let's be realistic.
Up until what?
1994, when some ViolenceAgainst Women Act came out, Up
until 1994, anything thathappened behind closed doors was
considered a family matter.
Police didn't want to getinvolved.
(10:45):
A woman couldn't file chargesagainst her husband.
So I mean, there I was growingup in this house.
Child services look the otherway, Police look the other way.
They just figure out well,they'll deal with that on their
own.
They don't care, they didn'tcare.
And when you finally get to be18 and you get the heck out of
there, or hopefully sooner.
(11:06):
I couldn't, unfortunately,before 18.
But they find different ways andit always is interesting to me,
you know, when I'm 48 now andpeople will say, oh well, you
know, I thought your mother, youknow, was estranged.
I thought your stepfatherhasn't spoken to you in years.
Yes, we have had no contact foryears, years.
(11:37):
Yet still to this day, theyfind random ways to affect me,
just as it sounds like happenedto you, without naming people.
But that's the thing about itis that they cannot let go of
that control.
They will find a way to hurt you.
They know how to hurt you andthey got to get a little more
creative.
When you're not under theircontrol, when, when you're not
legally in their custody, whenyou're legally not married to
them anymore, whatever it is,they will still find a way to
(12:00):
hurt you, and they just know,they always know exactly how to
specifically hurt you, andthrough you, it's your daughter.
For most anybody it would betheir child, but but
specifically because of Faith'smedical issues and her history,
her very recent history, that'sa disgusting and nasty thing to
do.
It's just vile.
This goes well beyond the factthat they could even walk this
(12:26):
earth without consequence isdisgusting to me.
Well, they knew she was in thehospital.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
They knew she was in the hospital.
They knew, they knew she wasfighting for her life.
They knew that she wasn'tsupposed to make it, and still
nothing.
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
No, because they don't care, right, they don't
care.
Anybody who was watchingFacebook or TikTok or whatever,
and watching the angst in yourface when you were sitting
bedside with that little girlback in December and January
because it just went on and onfor months Everyone that saw
(13:03):
your husband sitting theretalking about her condition,
giving updates that had a heart,was teary-ed and wish they
could be there to do more.
So, yeah, for her own, forpeople that are biologically
related to her to be able toturn their backs and then try to
take away her medical caredisgusting.
(13:24):
So, um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm rarelyspeechless, but I don't know
that I have much more to sayabout that, it's just and next
thing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Then they go and take it to his work.
You know it's like come on now.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean, but it's their way of saying we're
watching and we know and we arestill keeping track of you,
because I've had stuff like anote show up on my car in some
random place and it or a textmessage that says, oh, I didn't
realize how close I was to you,and it's like you're looking
around, like, oh, they'rewatching me still, even though
we've had no contact for a while.
It's just their way tointimidate, manipulate, which I
(14:22):
don't know about where you are,but I know in the lovely state
of Illinois.
Here that is considered an actof abuse and that is something
you can get a protection, anorder of protection for if you
go through the rigmarole, whichis not often easy, as I found
out the hard way, but it's scaryand I don't think it's right to
(14:42):
intimidate anyone.
Anyway, when you're I mean I'msure you as well as me, some of
us that have been through somestuff where things have gotten
very violent, even when you moveon, even years later, you're
looking over your shoulder.
At certain places you haveevents that might be more public
, or something like our books,and you're always wondering are
(15:05):
they watching?
Are they seeing this?
Well, yes, because we see peopleon social media scoping out
well, that's their friend.
I know they're not on there forme trying to be my friend.
I know they're aware of it.
That means this one's aware ofit, so it's just their way of
letting us know they're stillthere in the background and I
(15:26):
don't know why.
Well, yeah, I agree withMichael.
We don't want to be like them,we don't want to be able to
understand them, but we have tobe aware of how they work.
And so this is important stuffto talk about, because I think a
lot of people think that whenyou cut that relationship, when
you cut ties, when you get thatdivorce, everything will be okay
(15:47):
now because you've ended it.
No, that's just the beginningof it, because that's like the
worst thing you can do to anarcissist to say I'm cutting
you off.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's when it usually gets really bad, and
they just never stop, right, youknow, they love to do the
silent treatment where it's likeI'm not talking to you, and
they would literally be standingin front of me, dana, and then,
like my bio dad, talk to my biomom and say tell her I'm right
here.
You know, adolescent, you soundlike I'm right here, you know.
And then you're not going tospeak to me.
Okay, great.
And I now I realize it's bestgift, like, thank you for that.
(16:20):
That was fantastic.
Can I have more?
But they don't want to see ussucceed.
They don't want to see ussuccessful.
And you know, the thing is isthat my bio dad sees my husband
numerous times.
He physically saw him today anddidn't even speak to him,
didn't acknowledge him, lookright at him, locked eyes with
him, didn't acknowledge him,nothing, not a word, and it was
(16:40):
just like.
You know, it's so like now.
It took me so long because nowit's like I go back and I
realize I'm not who you made meout to be.
I'm not who you wanted me to beand you made me out to be this
horrific person who deservedeverything I got because I
(17:01):
stayed, or my bad choice.
Well, you know what?
Here's what I have to say.
You know, as a quote unquotefather, you're supposed to teach
me what is acceptable to haveas a male in my life, and when
you show me, oh, I'm gonna giveyou the silent treatment, or you
know why?
Can't I just be happy, do you?
Don't want me happy aftereverything I've done for you?
Okay, pack my bags here.
We go for the guilt trip, youknow?
(17:23):
And then I get some stupid email.
I don't know if you know this.
I got an email that this was awhile ago.
It was years ago that I hadleft stuff.
Their house, as we all know, ishuge and I left stuff in the
attic.
We have four attics for pryingout loud.
I left stuff in the attic.
They told me that I had lessthan a week to come and get it.
I wasn't allowed there.
Only my husband was, and in itwas so much of Faith's baby
(17:46):
stuff I mean things that shemade me art, stuff like that and
they had the room.
They told me I could storestuff there.
So I did, and that was mystupid fault.
But you know what?
They got rid of everything.
They got rid of things thatfaith made them.
Faith made me and you know what.
The end of the day, I havefaith.
So you know what?
And I have faith in more thanone way.
(18:14):
So when they're sitting thereand they are going through this
and you know he's about to be 80and like, literally, you spend
your time and you're and I know,you know I don't but you're
spinning your wheels likewondering, you know, here's the
thing I might have made some badchoices, but it was because I
had bad directions.
And if I I, you know I wasgiven bad direction.
He did not show me what wasacceptable.
(18:34):
My grandfather did, and I losthim in the most important part
of my life, when I was 15.
So, yes, I made some horriblechoices, I made horrible
decisions and you know what.
But I'm here where I am todayand I'm happy, and he's not.
And I have a soulmate and hedoesn't.
He calls his a roommate, I callmine my soulmate, and there's
(18:54):
so many different things and atthe end of the day, I can put my
head down and not be like youknow what?
How do I do this to someone Ilove?
How can I hurt someone else Ilove so much?
I don't even love them.
I use them when it's, you know,advantageous for growth for
myself, but I don't wantanything to do with them unless
they can do something for me.
I don't do that.
I mean, that's not who I am andthat's not who I stand for, and
(19:18):
that's definitely not who faithis.
So faith tells me all the time.
How did you raise me sodifferent?
And I said I give youeverything they never give me.
And that's what I did.
I made sure you never had to gothrough the hell.
I felt trapped in, like I feltlike everything about me wasn't
good enough, you know, like Iwas never going to be pretty
enough, or I was never going tobe talented enough, or whatever
(19:40):
the case may be.
I was never going to be enough.
There's not a day that goes byI don't tell her I love her.
There's not a day that goes byI don't tell her how proud of
her I am and how talented she isand how amazing she is.
And you know what.
They could be sitting in theirmuseum or whatever you want to
call it.
But you know what?
She's got millions of followers.
She's a published author.
She has done amazing things.
(20:01):
She is the inspiration topeople across this world who
line up asking her to interviewthem, and you know what?
What have you got to say?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
to interview them and you know what?
What have you got to say?
Right, exactly, but again,they're just trying to get to
you and I appreciate youpointing out the age, because I
want people to understand thatit's something that I have
actually said out loud just tomyself, because I'm here alone
and I have nobody to talk toother than you sometimes and
myself and my cat to talk toother than you sometimes and
myself and my cat, but I'm likethey're 50, they're 60, they're
(20:41):
70.
Like these are people thatshould not be acting like 15
year old, petty high school,like it's.
So nobody is better than anyoneelse, and so number one I want
to say right, and that's thething is that we've all made
mistakes.
When you were sitting theresaying you didn't always make.
The thing is, that's life,that's what it is to grow up.
You make bad decisions, youmake the wrong moves, but
(21:04):
sometimes you make the rightdecisions and you learn as you
go.
But the key is learning, andpart of that learning comes with
growth and self-awareness, andI would like to think that most
people would like to go on thatpath continually throughout
their life.
But there are some people, forwhatever reason and honestly I
(21:24):
mean I could go into analysis oftheir pasts and their
upbringings, whatever andprobably find it as well as you
could to you know thepsychological source of why they
are stunted and what exactlyhappened to make them that way.
But it is so sad to think thatsomebody is at 70, 80 years old,
(21:44):
as the case is for us, stillacting like a 12 year old,
trying to like I'm going to getthem back.
I got to figure out another wayto get them back, like, really
you want to.
Your last dying thought isgoing to be how to stick it to
me more, but again, they findways because they are intent on
it.
(22:05):
My mother and stepfather werenot as overt as saying come and
get all your crap because Ididn't leave.
I've learned to pack light.
I've moved enough times whereif I can throw it in a backpack
I'm good, and if I don't need itI don't take it.
But when my first book came outlast year, it was about a month
after my son showed up at myhouse with my baby blanket that
(22:30):
my great-grandma had crochetedfor me.
My mother had had it and Iguess she didn't want it in her
house anymore.
So I guess I should be gratefulthat she at least sent it back.
But you want to know why shesent it back to give.
I mean that gives a messagethat you're not my daughter
anymore.
I don't want you anymore, I amridding of you.
(22:52):
And when you grow up incircumstances like you and I
have and you already feelworthless because you know, like
in my house, I was told I wasan accident, I was a mistake,
never should have been born, allthat stuff, I mean you want to
talk about feeling worthless andnot feeling like enough then to
give me my baby blanket like anF you basically, and to have my
(23:15):
son deliver it, really, really,but that hurt.
I mean 47 years old and I criedbecause I knew my pictures,
that my grandma told me all mypictures had come down you know
how many years ago and Iremember seeing that that's
something they would do when Iwas an adult is if they weren't
happy with me, my pictures wouldcome down off the wall and I'd
(23:37):
get the silent treatment likewe're just gonna erase you
because you weren't a good girl.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You're a tax write-off.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right, exactly, and I'm lucky I was even that.
I think that's the only reasonthat my stepfather legally
adopted me was so I could be atax write-off, because when I
was 12 years old I found outthat he took out a life
insurance policy on me.
There wasn't enough room in thebook for this, but it's very
disturbing.
I found out by accident and I'mlike what is a 12-year-old need
(24:05):
a life insurance policy for?
Well, the way he was treatingme and the way they were trying
to get rid of me and it was onlythree years after that there
were hands around my neck and Iwas being thrown downstairs.
So it's kind of disturbing whenyour parents want you dead or I
say parents, using the wordvery loosely they're supposed to
be your parents but they wantyou dead.
(24:27):
And then they're taking outlife insurance policy so he
could go get a brand newCorvette or something.
Once they got rid of me likethey wanted to.
It's disgusting and sick, butstill you know like had happened
to you and like still happensto me.
There's lies being spread,rumors being circulated, to the
point that I barely have familyleft.
(24:49):
I have.
Maybe that I can count on onehand, the number of family
members from both sides thatactually still have contact with
me.
But you know, we're going intothe holiday season come, you
know well, halloween, I guesspeople don't get together.
But Thanksgiving, christmas,you know, then you have Easter.
After that I get to go onFacebook and watch my families
(25:12):
getting together and it's like Inever even existed, it's like
they were just able to do awaywith me, and that doesn't help a
person feel any less worthless.
So you know, if anybody else outthere can relate, just know
that this is the intent of thenarcissist.
If you do not let them controlyou, if they are disapproving of
you in any way, they will hurtyou, they will go at you.
(25:35):
This is called a smear campaignand to the most extreme extent
it's called nuking.
But it's terrible that we evenuse like military warfare,
political warfare, verbiage todescribe what they do to other
people.
Like, just go on with your lifeand move on like I am, like I'm
(25:55):
not talking to you, I'm notreacting, I'm not even defending
the lies anymore because I'mover it.
If people want to think thatI'm the villain, if they want to
think these terrible thingsabout me, let them.
Let them, because the peoplewho really know me know that
none of that is true or theywould care enough about me to
(26:15):
come to me and say I heard this.
Do you want to explain and giveme an opportunity to do that?
But they don't, because they'rebuying into the BS.
And these narcissists, I hate totell y'all, but they are
convincing.
They are really, really good atwhat they do.
They can put on an act.
I mean, why do you think wemarried some?
(26:37):
I mean that Ted Bundy wascharming and handsome.
We weren't going out on thestreet looking for Chucky with
his little butcher knife and hiscrazy red hair.
Right, nothing against redheads, I love I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I love you, you know, but you think about it and when
you get to that age you're likein your late 70s and whatever.
You always heard that theyrevert back to like a toddler
sense where they, you know.
So you know, like, stop my footand that's the thing, and you
know I still pray for them everysingle night.
I do.
(27:10):
I do, I pray for my abusive exand his family every night
because you know everybody saidto me how do you still have a
smile on your face?
And it's because I was kepthere and faith was kept here and
it was for a reason and I trulybelieve it's to be here with
you and to advocate and to showpeople that you can get over it.
(27:32):
It's not a competition.
How many times you've been hit,you know, god forbid the time
you've been hit just once you'rein our circle.
I mean mean that's.
You know how I see it and Ijust I know that revenge is not
mine to give and I heard that somany times and I truly believe
in my heart.
Like we have one heart and wecan either fill it up with love,
happiness, laughter and joy, orwe can let it just become black
(27:55):
like theirs, and I'm not goingto do that.
And so I really just and I'mstill human and I repent.
My sin and I will say that rightnow is, you know that the fact
is is that if something happens,I just don't want to hear about
it, but I will not be involvedin you know I'm not going to
have my hand in it to say youknow, I mean, these are people
(28:15):
who up down one side of theother, would tell you that
they're Jewish all day long, butthey celebrate Christmas and he
wears a high and he you knowjust everything about it is I'm
Jewish, I'm Jewish.
Do you own a menorah, do you?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
you know, we have that in common.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, I know like faith told him one day you
better hurry up and put a cerealbowl over your head.
Nobody's gonna believe that youown a yarmulke, like you know.
And then that's just it.
It it really is.
When I was coming up with thecover of the book for nart nart,
it was literally like I have tomake it, where people just go
wow, because when you hear fromso many people that you are the
(28:54):
bad person and that you've doneall these horrible things but,
like you don't have a clue thatyour sperm and egg donor take
the person that beat you todeath, storm all on one occasion
, not only do they take him on avacation while you and your
daughter are in the ICU and payfor everything, but then you
(29:17):
find out they put him in my lifeto begin with and pay for
everything, but then you findout they put him in my life to
begin with.
So, with that being said, justthe book itself had to be, the
cover had to be like most peoplejust don't have a clue.
They see, they, they see whatthey want to see, they hear what
they hear and that's what it is.
And that's where it stops.
They never say hey, dana orVictoria, why don't you, you
(29:41):
know, tell us your side of this,or what really happened, or
whatever?
And even with all the proof andall the evidence and everything
else, some people are stillgoing to believe them.
And if that's the case, youknow what?
Get in your boat, go to yourown private Island and you know,
to have a day.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
No, I agree with you, and that's why I've gotten a
lot of flack from people.
You know, even my husband hassaid he's like you are the
sweetest, warmest, most lovingperson.
But he says I don't understandhow you can.
You can cut somebody offwithout a second thought,
without, I mean, you don't eventhink twice about it, and I'm
(30:15):
like I've unfortunately had tolearn in my life to cut it off
and let it go.
You know, I have to be quickabout it, because when somebody
proves who they are or what sidethey're on and I'm not about
taking sides necessarily, but Ithink when a line is drawn and
you clearly side with the personthat has tried to kill me or
(30:40):
intentionally harmed me in someway, you're sure as crap not on
my side and I don't deal withpeople who dance between the
line and play the fence likethat.
There is no, I'm not takingsides, crap.
No, the second you continue toassociate with them, you are
enabling their behavior, you areexcusing that behavior, you are
(31:01):
invalidating everything I havebeen through.
So I'm good, I will move on andI will cut you off and I will
never speak to you again.
I will be polite, you know,like you, I will hello in public
whatever if I have to, but I'mdone with you.
I'm over it, and I don't care ifyou're biologically related or
not.
When that line is drawn, yougot to pick a side.
(31:24):
There's no playing two sides onthat.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, I do want to say to everybody and I'm going
to have to start putting a lotof the responses that I get over
to Dana so we can both talkabout this but I want people to
know that you know, yes, I get.
We've had so many people comeout and say it is so hard.
Nobody understands.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
We understand because we've been there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You know we totally get it.
But I want there was this onelady who did not use her name
when she wrote.
It was just, um, it was anunusual screen name or whatever
in her message and she didn'tsay her name.
But by the way she was writing,I would say maybe she's in our
age group but she is havingshe's in the very beginning of
(32:07):
this, like she's having a reallyhard time and she doesn't think
she's very strong.
And I'm here to tell you that,um, you're stronger than you
know because, yeah, they pick us.
They pick us as the black sheepbecause they put everything on
us.
They put it on us and we arereally.
(32:27):
What these idiots don't realize,these narcissistic morons don't
realize, is that we're the oneswho know the truth and we're
the ones that they really shouldbe afraid of because we can
expose them.
But they try, try to train us,not to.
They try to.
You know, it took me until Iwas in my forties to realize
that I wasn't the one who wasdoing everything wrong, like he
(32:49):
said I was.
You know, like he sneezed and Isaid bless you and I would get
pinched.
I'm like, why do I say that?
Why do?
I say bless you when you sneezeLike.
I should just stop and youreally are so much stronger than
you know and you just need torevert that strength and turn it
around a little bit and realizethat you survived and I say
this all the time when I'mspeaking engagements.
(33:09):
You survived 100% of your worstdays.
And they can't say that becauseif they could, you wouldn't be
their crutch.
They are so unhappy in theirlife.
They're miserable humans.
I don't even like putting themin that category.
There's such unhappy creaturesthat they want to spread their
(33:31):
unhappiness, because miseryloves company.
But the strength you have fromwithin to cut them out of your
life, or if they cut you out oftheir life, the point is you
need to remember is that you'recontinuing to have them no
longer in your daily life.
So that makes you a lotstronger than you have any idea,
and kudos to you for that,because I can tell you I went
(33:53):
back dozens and dozens of timesbegging for their forgiveness
for shit I didn't even do.
You know.
They were mad at me and notspeaking to me for whatever
reason, and I fell on the swordjust to get them to forgive me
for what I was being blamed for,that I wasn't even a part of,
(34:23):
and so for you to literally justtake a moment and realize that
if they did cut you out of theirlife because this reader, like
she, sent me, not subconsciouslyand I would love to hear Dana's
take on this is thatsubconsciously you might not
have shut them out, but yousubconsciously have locked them
out and you are protectingyourself and you are getting
stronger and stronger because ofit, because you are getting
(34:46):
away from it and, even thoughyou might not have been the one
to say I'm done and walk away,you've kept them away and you've
locked that door and you didn'tgo back and say I'm sorry for
stuff you didn't do.
And that shows such strength andadmiration and I am inspired by
exactly what you're doingbecause you don't realize that
(35:06):
that takes a lot of guts, ittakes a lot of strength, and I
am so proud to even have beensomeone that you chose to write
to and I would love if you wouldwrite me back and tell me it's
okay for me to share it withDana because I didn't pass it to
her just because I'm so big onthe confidentiality when I work
with people on domestic violence.
So I keep it very confidentialand that's why I didn't give any
(35:28):
of her personal information,but I would love for her to read
it.
It was so heartfelt and soloving.
But I mean, do you agree that,like she needs to realize her
strength in this?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
This is what I equate it to when I tell people
because I always said I neverasked to be strong, I never
thought I was that strong.
People still tell me I'm strongand all this stuff and I'm like
no, I just didn't have a choice.
Because if I saw my kidsstrapped to a railroad track and
a train coming, I'm pretty sureI would turn into Superwoman
(36:01):
and do things at lightning speedto save my son's life.
And when you're in thesesituations, I think that people,
until they're in them, don'treally get what survival means.
They think survival like thereality show Survivor, like
you're in a jungle and you'retrying to make sure a snake
(36:22):
doesn't stick you with poisonousvenom and that you have water
for how many days?
No, survival is too often herein the freedom of the United
States of America, behind theclosed doors of our own homes,
where we're supposed to be themost safe and secure.
And especially when you're akid and those are your parents
(36:42):
who are supposed to keep you,protect you, make sure you have
shelter, food, nurture you, allthese things, and you are
basically left to fend foryourself, literally for life or
death.
And then you're that scaredlittle girl that's afraid of
people.
But you grow up and trustanother man and then you end up
in another situation whereyou're being abused left and
(37:05):
right but you're being gaslitthis time because everything you
think, you're told you don't isnot real.
That didn't happen that way.
I never said that you took itwrong.
You're sensitive.
Happen that way.
I never said that you took itwrong.
You're sensitive, you're crazy,all these things.
And then we start to doubtourselves.
There's that crazy making.
So by the time you kind of openyour eyes and think maybe it's
(37:26):
not me, maybe it's them, thenthey start really working you.
So if you don't already thinkeverything is your fault and
that you are the problem,they're going to work harder to
make you feel that way, exceptonce you really take those rose
colored glasses off and see it.
You can't unsee it.
And then there's a littleresistance and there's this push
and pull, and for me it went onfor 15 years until I finally
(37:50):
pulled the plug on it, but notwithout getting to the point
where he actually was planningto kill me and he wanted me dead
.
And even after the divorce itgot the most violent.
So what people need tounderstand it's not about being
strong.
Don't label.
You know how I love labels.
Don't label yourself.
Just get through the next fiveminutes, then get through the
(38:12):
next hour and do what you needto do to take care of you.
Keep yourself safe, protectyourself.
If you have children, animals,whatever else, do what you can
do.
If you want to call that strong, call it strong.
You want to call it somethingelse, call it something else.
But everybody is in thatsituation just trying to survive
(38:32):
, and that's what that really is, but I'm going to go so far.
One more thing just to tag on tothat, because it was my initial
feeling when you startedtelling this story, about this
letter, and I probably talkedabout this before.
But I remember as a teenagereven just I remember saying it
to my great grandma that I thinkone of the hardest things in
(38:52):
life, one of the worst feelingsto have, is to find out that you
loved somebody or were moreinvested in a relationship than
they were, whether that's family, romantic, whatever because
that's betrayal when they betrayyour trust, when they betray
your heart.
That way, it's hard not to feellike there's something wrong
(39:13):
with you, like you think it mustbe me, because I did everything
.
I love them with all my heart.
I, I, whatever it is, but theystill.
I wasn't enough for them.
And you start to generalize itand think, if I wasn't enough
for them, then I'm not enoughfor any everybody.
And and we have to stop doingthat to ourselves because it's
such a disservice and we had alittle bit of a conversation on
(39:41):
another subject before this, butit speaks to this very well is
that we have to remind ourselveswe may not be enough for some
people.
I will never in my entire life,no matter what I could
literally come down from theheavens and be proclaimed God or
Jesus here on earth.
And it will not be enough formy mother to be proud of me.
She wants nothing to do with me.
I'm good now.
(40:02):
I accept that.
Well, thank you.
But I'm saying like people needto get past this not being good
enough for that person, becauseI don't want to have to try to
prove myself.
If somebody truly loves me,cares about me, even just likes
me as a friend, I'm going to beenough, I'm going to be just
right.
And there's going to be people.
(40:23):
I've been told by people oh,you're too much, you're too loud
, you're too outspoken, I'm toothis.
Well, you know what Then?
We're not the right people, butthere are the right people.
They come up, those are yourpeople and the world goes round
because there are all kinds ofpeople with all kinds of
different qualities.
You just have to find the ones.
It's kind of like we talkedabout puzzles before.
(40:45):
You're a puzzle piece.
You just got to find out whereyou fit.
And you're not going to fitsometimes in the places, and I
think this is why I know for mebut I think a lot of people can
relate why sometimes we get sodepressed about it is that I
don't belong with my family, Idon't belong with my husband's
family, I don't belong here orthere or wherever, because we
(41:06):
don't belong in the places thatI guess society or we dictate to
ourselves where we shouldbelong, where we're supposed to
organically fit.
We think something is wrongwith us.
But you know, sometimes youjust have to look in the mirror
and say maybe I'm just thatspecial and I just fit with my
(41:27):
extra special puzzle people,because they're out there and we
have to remind ourselves too.
For those of us who are faithful, one of the things that helped
keep me in perspective when Iwas trying to get past this idea
of not being enough for mymother and not being enough for
my stepfather and then myex-husband, and like almost
everybody I've come across in mylife, is that I am a child of
(41:50):
God.
I'm not my mother's child.
She gave birth to me.
I am thankful that, forwhatever reason, she kept me
alive very minimally, but shedid, and that I am here.
But I am God's child now.
I am not necessarily hers.
She does not possess me in anyway.
(42:10):
So I am here to do his will, todo his work, and that's why
we're here trying to help otherpeople that have been in these
situations.
But nobody is ever alone.
Nobody should ever, ever feellike they're not enough, and it
makes my heart sad because I amone of those people.
I am still working on it.
So so believe me when I say Iget it and I have my days and I
(42:33):
still cry, in fetal positionsometimes, because we are all
human and we feel and we hurtand things remind us of that
pain.
But you got to stand up andsmile and say you know what,
though?
There's nothing wrong with me,because really I'm not alone.
Let me scroll through my phoneand see all these people.
You know I can always count onVictoria here to be the you're
(42:56):
amazing and, hey, beautiful, andall this and I'm like, oh, I
just want to put her in mypocket and take her home, you
know, because I need thatcheerleader.
But we all have those people.
We just don't focus on thembecause we are so focused on the
people that don't want us, thepeople that reject us.
Stop looking for reasons toreject yourself.
Go to the other side.
(43:17):
You know it's the side thing.
I do hate picking sides, butyou got to side with yourself
once in a while.
We all need to.
Sorry for that little monologue, but it's so important.
No, I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I'm going to be in her pocket, like I always send
her messages and I'm like, hey,how's your day's like?
And Faith, of course, is nowswearing up and down that this
is her, her aunt, like I can'thave a conversation and she's
like I'm telling Aunt Dana.
I'm like go tell Aunt Dana.
She's like I'm gonna tell herright now.
Like you want my phone, you gotell her, you know.
So I, I love that.
(43:48):
But uh, I wanted to ask how doyou feel about our next session?
Is that we I've been puttingtogether a list of questions
that we've been getting that wedo a Q&A session?
I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
I love it.
We've got a lot.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
So anybody who has any questions, either ask myself
, ask Ms Dana, and we'll putthem all together and on the
next one we will answer all ofthese questions that we're
getting all together and on thenext one we will answer all of
these questions that we'regetting.
I figured we would wait till wegot enough to do a whole
session on Q&A and I think thatwill be great, I do.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
That would be amazing .
I love that.
I love that because we want todefinitely answer questions
specifically to what people wantto hear and anything about
narcissism, abuse, domesticviolence, something specific to
Victoria, to me, if you've readeither one of our books and have
a question about a book, abouta scenario, we are more than
(44:43):
happy to answer that.
We are both obviously very openand unfiltered.
Yeah, we're definitelyunfiltered.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in, and in our
next session we're going to dothe Q&A.
Yay, that'll be fun.
Thank you for being with me.
Again, I'm going to go jumpback in your.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Please do, bye, bye.
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