April 29, 2024 • 29 mins
Deferred happiness is the idea that you can't be happy until you reach some goal or hit some milestone in your life.
It's common to see people defer happiness until they make more money, find a romantic partner, finish school, move to a new city, or a million other scenarios.
Today we talk about this idea often called Deferred Happiness Syndrome. We talk about why humans are prone to it, what type of people are MOST prone to it, and how to break the cycle of deferring happiness with some very practical strategies and techniques.
This is our second episode in a series called "The Deferred Life"
The first one covered the idea of deferring life until retirement to work in a job that makes you unhappy.
Here's a link to that episode:
The Deferred Life, part 1, Retirement
Other Resources mentioned in this episode:
Happiful Article on Clive Gordon: https://happiful.com/could-you-be-experiencing-deferred-happiness-syndrome
A Million Ways to Live was produced By Chris Egan
For more information, please visit AMWTL.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:00):
Welcome to A Million Ways to Live.
I'm Chris.
I'm here as always, with myco-host, cassie, we're going to
jump into, dive into, explore,dissect a million different ways
to live a good life.
It should be fun, the show andlife.
(00:21):
They should both be fun.
Okay, cassie, hey, chris,welcome back.
Thanks.
So this is episode two on thetopic of deferred happiness.
Right, right, right.
So last episode we talked aboutdeferred happiness in
(00:47):
retirement and how people oftenwill work a job that is
unpleasant to miserable in hopesthat someday they'll retire and
then they can be happy.
Yes, today we're going justdeeper on the entire idea of
(01:09):
deferred happiness.
So let's remind listeners whatdeferred happiness is.
I am going to make you defineit this time, okay.
Cassie (01:19):
Because I did last time, uh, putting off happiness until
a later date or believing thatyou'll be happy when XYZ happens
, but not really living for themoment and being present and
enjoying the here and now,because you're focused on the
next thing in the future thatwill bring you happiness future
(01:50):
that will bring you happiness.
Chris (01:50):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's fairly uh, it's a veryliteral.
It's defined in the term itselfdeferred happiness.
It's kind of obvious.
But people have also, uh,dubbed the deferred happiness
syndrome, which is not a youit's not a actual psychological
thing.
But yeah, delaying happiness,joy, until you achieve something
(02:12):
, reach some goal, changesomething about yourself or some
milestone in life, yep.
And so why is it a bad idea?
Cassie (02:25):
I think that's obvious, because you only you don't know
if that present date will come.
You don't know if thatmilestone will ever happen.
You don't know if you'll everget to that vision of yourself
that you're imagining will behappy.
So being happy now, or tryingto be, is obviously the better
(02:47):
route to me yeah, you may neverreach the goal, yeah, yeah.
Chris (02:52):
So to put it in context here, I have a few common areas
where people defer happiness.
So you have career that wetalked about.
Well, retirement is really whatwe talked about, but in career,
waiting for a new job, apromotion or reaching a certain
salary level of income.
Education putting off enjoyinglife until you graduate or get
(03:15):
the education you're seeking?
Yeah, relationships Peoplethink they can't be happy until
they find a partner a spouse, aboyfriend, girlfriend, whatever
it may be.
Lifestyle Think you can't behappy living where you are or
until you move to a new town orget a bigger house or that kind
of a lifestyle related milestone.
(03:36):
And then just other personalmilestones until you're older,
until you retire or any otherpersonal goal.
Cassie (03:45):
Lose weight.
Chris (03:47):
That's a common one.
So people do this in all ofthese different areas.
The other reason it's a badidea is that it might not make
you happy when you reach it.
Yep, and that's what a lot ofpeople don't know.
You don't know if it's going tomake you happy or not.
(04:07):
There's no way to know it.
You think it is, and a lot ofthings in our culture tell us
that we're going to be happywhen you get the big house, um,
become a millionaire, whateverit is.
(04:28):
Social media.
Who do you think's prone tothese kinds of things?
I think this kind of thing wellI think everyone is a little
bit.
Cassie (04:39):
You know, I think everyone is prone to it.
I'm definitely guilty of doingit throughout my entire life.
Chris (04:47):
In what areas?
Cassie (04:48):
Oh gosh, like all of them.
So it was, I mean probably frommiddle school on, like, oh,
I'll be happy when I get to highschool, I'll be happy after
high school.
Oh, if I could just get a joband then, you know, finish
college, then I'll be happy, Ican get married, have kids.
I've done, like all of the onesthat we've kind of talked about
(05:10):
um, have certain amount ofmoney, weigh a certain amount,
um, everything, it's always thenext thing.
Or if we even smaller, likesometimes, like, oh, if we can
just get through winter, I'll behappy when it's spring.
You know, I do it a lot.
(05:31):
I think I'm really guilty ofthis whole thing and kind of
thinking about it over the pastweek or two has put it in
perspective and, like you know,logically.
I know it's not the way to livelife, but I think we all do it
to some degree.
But who's most susceptible toit?
It's people that are unhappy.
Chris (05:58):
But are they unhappy because they're doing this, or
are they doing this becausethey're unhappy Because they're
doing this, or are they doingthis because they're unhappy?
So I think the note I have hereis that high achievers, people
that are highly ambitious,people that are always striving
the next project, the next bigthing, the next goal, the next
there those people are, I think,prone to getting caught in that
(06:28):
trap of thinking the next thing, or the success of the next
project or the achievement ofthe next goal is when they'll
finally be able to relax and behappy, because it's that's, it's
more than just this feeling.
Some people, I think, like,truly feel like they can't relax
, like it's, it's a, it's a workthing.
(06:49):
It's like they have to hustleand grind to get to the next
thing or get to the end of thecurrent thing before, and it's,
it's almost like they just theycan't like.
This is what I know.
I have to struggle right now.
I don't get to be happy untiluntil I do this thing.
(07:09):
It's not even this, I don'tknow.
It becomes, it almost becomes aconscious choice, like they
recognize that they're deferringhappiness and say, well, I know
, because I gotta hustle andgrind and get to the end of this
project or reach this goal, andthen like that's what I think
(07:29):
is odd about it.
It actually maybe starts asthis unconscious thing that just
people do.
But for the higher, the highachiever, the highly ambitious
type of person, I think itactually becomes this choice.
Whether that comes from all ofthe hustle and grind type of
(07:49):
people, that influencers andsuch that those kinds of people
follow, or it's more innate, Idon't know, but that seems to be
.
It evolves into a choice, Ithink for those kinds of people.
Cassie (08:05):
So I would say there's really kind of two kinds of
people then, kind of the onesthat you're talking about, that
have just a lot of ambition andhustle and want to get there,
and then, on the flip side,people that don't really want to
take responsibility for theirown happiness, in a way of like
saying, once I get to there, youknow, then I'll be happy, but
(08:25):
not, uh, not putting it in theirown court, like hoping that the
universe gives them a partneror a promotion or the next thing
you know, or if I win thelottery, then I'll be happy.
You know, there's kind of, Ithink, that flip side to it.
Chris (08:42):
Is that?
Are you describing like avictim mentality of people that
say the world is put me in a badposition and I can't be happy
until the world takes me out ofthis position?
Cassie (08:53):
Yeah, so kind of interesting.
They're such similar things,but one person is trying their
hardest to get there, while theother person is just waiting for
fortune to happen to them.
Chris (09:08):
What do you think that does in a relationship to the
other person?
If there's two people in arelationship, there's one person
who is has this deferredhappiness syndrome and the other
person is a little bit betterat being content I think it
(09:31):
causes a lot of stress in arelationship why are you
smirking?
Cassie (09:35):
because I think we have a little bit of that.
Uh, while I said I've gonethrough you know that a little
bit of it, I'm much more content, I think, in the day to day,
than my partner over there,which you know.
I think there's, I thinkthere's a good side to it too,
(09:56):
like someone who's highlyambitious and wants to achieve
things and has goals.
That's all great, I mean, butthe downside is the I can't be
happy until I do those things,and I think sometimes, in a
relationship especially, it'slike, well, you got to figure
out how to be happy now, becausehere we are.
Chris (10:18):
Yeah, it is great, I think, to have goals and
ambition, but it doesn't theydon't necessarily have to go
hand in hand that while you, ifyou have ambition, you have to
defer happiness.
Cassie (10:28):
Right.
Chris (10:30):
Those two things can be separated and you can abandon
the deferred happiness idea andstill be ambitious.
Cassie (10:37):
Definitely, but sometimes people don't do that.
Chris (10:40):
Right?
Well, I've got a list of thingswe'll get to here in a few
minutes on ways to do that, okay, but I wanted to bring a couple
of resources in.
So there's a guy in the idea ofwhere does it come from?
Where does this deferredhappiness come from?
And I found this guy namedClive Hamilton.
He's an Australian author andhe wrote about this a long time
(11:04):
ago, 2004.
Cassie (11:06):
20 years ago.
It was a long time ago.
It was a long time.
Chris (11:08):
Years ago is a long time, it is a long time I saw a thing
that said if uh, what's themovie?
Um, dazed and confused.
If they were to make a movietoday.
Cassie (11:22):
Yeah.
Chris (11:25):
About a time long ago, just like they did in the
nineties with dazed and confused.
Cassie (11:31):
Yeah.
Chris (11:31):
Then that would be like the early 2000s or something.
It's crazy.
Anyway, Clive Hamilton is anAustralian author and he wrote
that it starts with evolution.
Humans are not designed to behappy, because then we wouldn't
evolve.
We're designed to progress andpush forward, and to do that
(11:51):
there's a dissatisfaction thatoften exists.
Cassie (11:56):
Makes sense.
I mean to change.
Why would you change anythingif you were totally satisfied,
you know.
So having that element ofdissatisfaction is what drives
people to some degree.
Chris (12:10):
So I've been.
That makes sense, but I've beenreading a lot about work lately
and truly a long time ago,hunter, gatherer societies.
It was more of an egalitariansociety where there wasn't
hierarchies, there wasn't thissocietal need to progress and
(12:30):
compare yourself to each otherand say I need to this person's
higher status, I want to meettheir status, I want to raise my
own status and become moreimportant or more prestigious.
It wasn't like that originallyokay it.
I guess he's right.
It evolved into that, but Idon't know if that is innate in
(12:58):
humans or if that's somethingthat our current culture is
making us do.
Is it unnatural or is itnatural?
Cassie (13:12):
are you asking my opinion?
I, I think I'm asking it outinto the world.
If you have an answer, feelfree to I didn't realize that it
hasn't always been that way.
Frankly, I thought there wasalways some degree of wanting
higher status, higher positionin the tribe.
Like you know, you have betterchances of getting a partner of
(13:36):
you know like it.
Chris (13:37):
I thought that was something that was kind of
always a part of life I'm notcompletely schooled in that uh
area of anthropology, so, but myunderstanding is that that is
not a universal idea.
It's not that all um smalltribes and hunter-gatherer
societies did not all have thathierarchy and many didn't.
(14:03):
Um, he goes on to say humansnavigate the world in relation
to where am I in the hierarchy?
And then an article talkingabout his paper.
It says if you think abouttoday and the group that we are
in, if you think about today andthe group that we are in
comparison to, it's Hollywoodstars and people who are
genetically great in the gym.
(14:23):
If we go back not that far, wewould have had small tribes and
we could be the best atsomething, whereas now we are
comparing ourselves to peoplewho are the best in the world,
people who are in the 1% of the1%, because we're-.
Cassie (14:39):
Exposed to it Connected.
Chris (14:40):
Everybody's connected to everybody on the internet, so we
can see the best of the best,the 1% of the 1%.
Cassie (14:50):
Yeah, that's interesting .
The best of the best, the onepercent of the one percent?
Yeah, that's interesting.
I mean it just the comparisontrap that people get themselves
into.
That didn't exist like not thatlong ago.
So has deferred happinessalways been such a thing, or is
that a more recent phenomena, doyou think, like with the
(15:12):
introduction of social media andbeing able to see what everyone
else is doing?
Chris (15:21):
I don't think it started with social media.
Cassie (15:25):
No, I'm not seeing it start.
Do you think it has increasedbecause of?
Chris (15:28):
oh surely, yeah, yeah, the the you know, they call
social media people's highlightreel, because most people only
show the good they don't.
They're not posting about allof the bad times or the losses
in their life.
Most people or normal times ornormal boring times.
Yeah, so everybody, if you lookat you know you've got that one
(15:52):
family you always talk about onInstagram that's always taking
amazing vacations.
They're just always eatinggreat food and traveling and
they always look happy and theirkids are great and they're
pretty people and they're justthis.
It's the highlight reel of thatfamily.
They surely have bad times too,but they're not posting
(16:14):
Instagram pictures of that,right?
So that's what most people doand that's what we see.
So it's hard not to think thatwe don't absorb that
subconsciously and become feelinadequate and feel like we need
to work harder to achievethings, and it forces us into
(16:39):
this trap of not appreciatingwhat we have.
So, yeah, I think social mediahas made it a thousand times
worse.
I'm sure there's somestatistics on that, but yeah,
absolutely.
So.
How might people break thecycle?
I've got a list if you wouldlike me to jump in, unless you
(16:59):
have some ideas of your own.
Cassie (17:02):
No, go right ahead.
Chris (17:04):
So I've got three categories.
Cassie (17:06):
Of how to break the cycle.
Chris (17:07):
Of how to break the cycle of deferring happiness.
So there's some just generalones.
There's a few that clive gordon, the australian author, had,
and then, because we've donesome other episodes on topics
that I think are helpful, I'vegot some ideas from stoicism.
Okay, all right.
(17:28):
So some general ideas.
We have what's to be expectedto some degree.
So mindfulness and meditation.
Cassie (17:34):
Yeah.
Chris (17:36):
So brings you back into the current moment.
You have a set balanced goalshow to pursue aspirations
without sacrificing currenthappiness.
Balanced goals.
I think one way to look at thatis to the the idea of setting
out a process goal and anoutcome goal.
(17:56):
Okay.
An outcome goal is I want torun a marathon.
Process Goal is I want to run afour times a week okay.
So that way, even you know yourbody might not let you on
marathon day get to the finishline because an injury or you
(18:19):
just run out of energy or whathave you.
So the things that you can'tcontrol in that situation might
keep you from being happy if youdon't set a process goal that
you're a little bit more incontrol of.
Yeah, celebrate small victories.
So, along the path to whateveryou're trying to achieve,
(18:40):
celebrate the milestones leadingup to that.
Cassie (18:44):
Okay.
Chris (18:45):
Clive Gordon has five ideas.
It says do things that relateto your purpose.
People who have a purpose willbe happier.
Do you have a purpose?
Cassie (18:59):
That's a big question.
I don't know if I know my exactpurpose.
Chris (19:05):
I bet most people don't have any idea what their purpose
is.
Cassie (19:08):
Well, okay Then.
No, I don't know my purpose doyou know my purpose?
Chris (19:13):
no, do you I've always thought it was art artistic
being artistic.
I don't know that's right.
I don't know if there is aright answer, but learn to live
in the moment.
So, kind of back to mindfulnessand meditation.
Number four at the end of theday, look for two things you did
(19:35):
well and praise yourselfgenuinely.
Learning to look for the goodwill help you to be happier and
build a better relationship withyourself.
Cassie (19:45):
I like that one.
Chris (19:47):
Create your own sanctuary time.
That one create your ownsanctuary time.
Uh, create your own sanctuarytime in your week where you
remove distractions and focus ondoing things you really enjoy
to nourish you in some way,shape or form.
We will all have our ownversion of what this will
involve.
Do you have sanctuary time?
Cassie (20:06):
I do not, nope.
Chris (20:10):
Most of my life is seeking sanctuary time.
Cassie (20:12):
I know.
Chris (20:15):
Value sanctuary time.
Cassie (20:16):
I've never called it sanctuary time.
I like the term, though.
I think that's nice.
Chris (20:23):
So those are Clive Gordon's five ideas.
Do things that relate to yourpurpose, learn to enjoy the
process, learn to live in themoment.
Look for, at the end of the day, two things you did well and
praise yourself genuinely, andthen create sanctuary time.
Okay, stoicism.
Stoicism tells us to focus onwhat you can control.
(20:45):
So kind of back to the processand outcome goals.
So a lot of these are similarideas packaged a little bit
differently.
But yeah, stoicism is focusedon what you can control and
disregard the things you cannotcontrol.
There's no use wasting worryingenergy over things you can't
(21:07):
control.
Live according to nature.
Cassie (21:11):
Okay, that would help with being present.
Right To me it does.
Chris (21:18):
Live according to nature.
Yeah, Be present.
I think those are two differentideas, but they probably relate
.
So Stoicism I'll read what ithas here.
Stoicism teaches living inharmony with nature, including
human nature.
This involves accepting life asit unfolds and finding
(21:39):
contentment in fulfilling yourroles and duties well, rather
than postponing happiness inanticipation of future
achievements or changes.
Number three practicemindfulness and presence.
So that's come up really in allof these different categories.
Uh, use negative visualization.
Do you remember negativevisualization?
Cassie (22:01):
I sure do that's one of the tricky parts of stoicism
thinking about dark?
Chris (22:06):
yeah, it can be dark depending on the topic that
you're visualizing.
Cassie (22:10):
Yeah, I just always immediately go to the worst
possible thing when I think ofthat.
Chris (22:16):
So negative visualization is imagining the worst possible
outcome for a scenario.
So negative visualization for acareer?
Yeah, for a career.
You know you get fired andcan't find a job in your
industry anymore and you have tostart completely over.
(22:36):
Maybe that's a visualization.
And the point of it all is, ifyou visualize the worst possible
outcome, you'll either findthat it's not as bad as you
thought or it will soften theblow if that should happen.
So you're, you're preparing forthat thing, you're mentally
(22:57):
prepared for that to happen.
Or a third option uh, you'llfigure out a way to avoid it.
Yeah, so can be dark becausepeople think about I always just
a lot of the death, and a lotof the examples are around death
and losing somebody you carefor and yeah, that's really dark
(23:18):
and yeah I can understand howpeople don't want to do that
right, but it's supposed to behelpful even in that area.
Cassie (23:26):
Yeah, I can see its value a lot more in the career
or physical things.
Chris (23:35):
Losing something like your house or car.
Yes, so stoicism.
Recommendation number five iscultivate self-sufficiency.
Stoicism teaches that truehappiness comes from within, not
from external circumstances orachievement.
By developing inner resilienceand self-sufficiency, you can
(23:56):
enjoy life regardless ofexternal conditions.
Cassie (24:01):
Appreciation yeah, the author.
He said you know, recognize thetwo things that you did well
that day.
So similar to that.
Chris (24:11):
Number six acceptance.
Learn to accept things as theycome, without resistance or
resentment.
Number seven reflect onimpermanence.
Recognize the temporary,temporary nature of life and all
its experiences.
This recognition helps temperthe desire to postpone joy until
(24:32):
some future date, highlightingthe importance of finding
happiness in the now.
Cassie (24:38):
I think that's my favorite one, one of my
favorites for sure.
I think we could all benefitfrom that daily, knowing that
this is not forever.
Like how things are and youused to remind me of it a lot, I
think, when the kids werelittle.
Like they will eventually sleep, they will eventually eat on
their own, they will get dressedon their own, you know, like
(25:01):
all of the kind of hard the hardparts of life, like they're
just not going to last.
I mean so nothing is forever,and sometimes that's bittersweet
, but sometimes it's also likeyeah, just you know, today might
be terrible because of X, y, z,but in a month from now that
likely won't be the situation.
Chris (25:23):
Yeah, somebody on another podcast, no idea when or where,
but I remember they said thebest parenting advice they ever
got was on those days where itis chaos, you're trying to speak
with your spouse and you can'tbecause the kids are screaming,
(25:43):
they're crying, they're fighting, they're spilling, they're
breaking things, whatever Justthe chaos, and you're annoyed,
you're frustrated.
Maybe you're trying to work,maybe you're trying to work,
maybe you're on the phone, allthose times where the tension is
just rising, rising and youjust want to explode.
Yeah, just picture yourself 30years later in a quiet house in
(26:04):
a quiet house, and how much youwould probably want that moment
back and react in the way thatthat 30-year-older version of
you would suggest you act.
Cassie (26:20):
Yeah, I thought that was good it is.
Chris (26:22):
So another very practical way to avoid deferring
happiness, you know, avoiddeferring happiness to when that
life is not so chaotic.
Yeah, so that's a big one.
So have I uh missed anythingthat you came across?
Cassie (26:43):
no, I, as I was trying to kind of like listen or read,
I kept coming across meditation,mindfulness, that was like a
big thing, just, you know,working on being present.
I liked kind of the the term,the when, then trap.
I think that's a good way towhat's that?
(27:04):
When this happens, then I'llhave this outcome.
So I think kind of thinking notto fall into that trap of
thinking when this happens, thenI'll have this outcome.
So I think kind of thinking notto fall into that trap of
thinking.
Chris (27:17):
When this happens, then you know, yeah, yeah.
Cassie (27:18):
So that's something that I'll take away from it, kind of
, and use.
Chris (27:22):
Well, two last things I have here.
So we're really one, I guess.
So I think what we're going tofind after we do this podcast
for another year, another twoyears, another 10 years,
whatever it may be, yeah, thatthere's going to develop what
I'll dub right now this toolbelt approach to living a good
(27:43):
life.
Okay, because sometimesminimalism is going to be useful
, like when clutter is gettingout of control yeah, very
obvious.
But other times some stoicideas are going to be helpful.
Other times you just need aguide, somebody to kind of
(28:04):
redirect you back into the rightdirection.
Um, so that you know we did the, you know, finding a guru idea
episode, and I think all ofthese different approaches while
it's hard to say that one ofthem is ever going to be like
that's the way to live life, buthaving all of these different
(28:24):
things to pull out of your toolbelt will be useful being able
to pull one idea, negativevisualization out of stoicism
and use that when you'redeferring happiness too much or
worrying about the future.
Cassie (28:43):
Yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it.
I always feel like a few thingsstick with me each time, each
topic, and I'm like that'sreally really useful, While none
of them are the silver bullet,like you said, of this is
definitely the right way.
There's a lot of good elementsthat come from each of the
topics we've discussed so far.
Yeah, anything else, I don'tthink so.
Chris (29:07):
Okay.
Cassie (29:08):
Thanks, thank you, bye.
Chris (29:11):
Bye.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe and leave us a review
, and please tune in next weekfor another edition of A Million
Ways to Live.
Bye-bye, bye.
Welcome to A Million Ways to Live.
I'm Chris.
I'm here as always, with myco-host, cassie, we're going to
jump into, dive into, explore,dissect a million different ways
to live a good life.
It should be fun, the show andlife.
(00:21):
They should both be fun.
Okay, cassie, hey, chris,welcome back.
Thanks.
So this is episode two on thetopic of deferred happiness.
Right, right, right.
So last episode we talked aboutdeferred happiness in
(00:47):
retirement and how people oftenwill work a job that is
unpleasant to miserable in hopesthat someday they'll retire and
then they can be happy.
Yes, today we're going justdeeper on the entire idea of
(01:09):
deferred happiness.
So let's remind listeners whatdeferred happiness is.
I am going to make you defineit this time, okay.
Cassie (01:19):
Because I did last time, uh, putting off happiness until
a later date or believing thatyou'll be happy when XYZ happens
, but not really living for themoment and being present and
enjoying the here and now,because you're focused on the
next thing in the future thatwill bring you happiness future
(01:50):
that will bring you happiness.
Chris (01:50):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's fairly uh, it's a veryliteral.
It's defined in the term itselfdeferred happiness.
It's kind of obvious.
But people have also, uh,dubbed the deferred happiness
syndrome, which is not a youit's not a actual psychological
thing.
But yeah, delaying happiness,joy, until you achieve something
(02:12):
, reach some goal, changesomething about yourself or some
milestone in life, yep.
And so why is it a bad idea?
Cassie (02:25):
I think that's obvious, because you only you don't know
if that present date will come.
You don't know if thatmilestone will ever happen.
You don't know if you'll everget to that vision of yourself
that you're imagining will behappy.
So being happy now, or tryingto be, is obviously the better
(02:47):
route to me yeah, you may neverreach the goal, yeah, yeah.
Chris (02:52):
So to put it in context here, I have a few common areas
where people defer happiness.
So you have career that wetalked about.
Well, retirement is really whatwe talked about, but in career,
waiting for a new job, apromotion or reaching a certain
salary level of income.
Education putting off enjoyinglife until you graduate or get
(03:15):
the education you're seeking?
Yeah, relationships Peoplethink they can't be happy until
they find a partner a spouse, aboyfriend, girlfriend, whatever
it may be.
Lifestyle Think you can't behappy living where you are or
until you move to a new town orget a bigger house or that kind
of a lifestyle related milestone.
(03:36):
And then just other personalmilestones until you're older,
until you retire or any otherpersonal goal.
Cassie (03:45):
Lose weight.
Chris (03:47):
That's a common one.
So people do this in all ofthese different areas.
The other reason it's a badidea is that it might not make
you happy when you reach it.
Yep, and that's what a lot ofpeople don't know.
You don't know if it's going tomake you happy or not.
(04:07):
There's no way to know it.
You think it is, and a lot ofthings in our culture tell us
that we're going to be happywhen you get the big house, um,
become a millionaire, whateverit is.
(04:28):
Social media.
Who do you think's prone tothese kinds of things?
I think this kind of thing wellI think everyone is a little
bit.
Cassie (04:39):
You know, I think everyone is prone to it.
I'm definitely guilty of doingit throughout my entire life.
Chris (04:47):
In what areas?
Cassie (04:48):
Oh gosh, like all of them.
So it was, I mean probably frommiddle school on, like, oh,
I'll be happy when I get to highschool, I'll be happy after
high school.
Oh, if I could just get a joband then, you know, finish
college, then I'll be happy, Ican get married, have kids.
I've done, like all of the onesthat we've kind of talked about
(05:10):
um, have certain amount ofmoney, weigh a certain amount,
um, everything, it's always thenext thing.
Or if we even smaller, likesometimes, like, oh, if we can
just get through winter, I'll behappy when it's spring.
You know, I do it a lot.
(05:31):
I think I'm really guilty ofthis whole thing and kind of
thinking about it over the pastweek or two has put it in
perspective and, like you know,logically.
I know it's not the way to livelife, but I think we all do it
to some degree.
But who's most susceptible toit?
It's people that are unhappy.
Chris (05:58):
But are they unhappy because they're doing this, or
are they doing this becausethey're unhappy Because they're
doing this, or are they doingthis because they're unhappy?
So I think the note I have hereis that high achievers, people
that are highly ambitious,people that are always striving
the next project, the next bigthing, the next goal, the next
there those people are, I think,prone to getting caught in that
(06:28):
trap of thinking the next thing, or the success of the next
project or the achievement ofthe next goal is when they'll
finally be able to relax and behappy, because it's that's, it's
more than just this feeling.
Some people, I think, like,truly feel like they can't relax
, like it's, it's a, it's a workthing.
(06:49):
It's like they have to hustleand grind to get to the next
thing or get to the end of thecurrent thing before, and it's,
it's almost like they just theycan't like.
This is what I know.
I have to struggle right now.
I don't get to be happy untiluntil I do this thing.
(07:09):
It's not even this, I don'tknow.
It becomes, it almost becomes aconscious choice, like they
recognize that they're deferringhappiness and say, well, I know
, because I gotta hustle andgrind and get to the end of this
project or reach this goal, andthen like that's what I think
(07:29):
is odd about it.
It actually maybe starts asthis unconscious thing that just
people do.
But for the higher, the highachiever, the highly ambitious
type of person, I think itactually becomes this choice.
Whether that comes from all ofthe hustle and grind type of
(07:49):
people, that influencers andsuch that those kinds of people
follow, or it's more innate, Idon't know, but that seems to be
.
It evolves into a choice, Ithink for those kinds of people.
Cassie (08:05):
So I would say there's really kind of two kinds of
people then, kind of the onesthat you're talking about, that
have just a lot of ambition andhustle and want to get there,
and then, on the flip side,people that don't really want to
take responsibility for theirown happiness, in a way of like
saying, once I get to there, youknow, then I'll be happy, but
(08:25):
not, uh, not putting it in theirown court, like hoping that the
universe gives them a partneror a promotion or the next thing
you know, or if I win thelottery, then I'll be happy.
You know, there's kind of, Ithink, that flip side to it.
Chris (08:42):
Is that?
Are you describing like avictim mentality of people that
say the world is put me in a badposition and I can't be happy
until the world takes me out ofthis position?
Cassie (08:53):
Yeah, so kind of interesting.
They're such similar things,but one person is trying their
hardest to get there, while theother person is just waiting for
fortune to happen to them.
Chris (09:08):
What do you think that does in a relationship to the
other person?
If there's two people in arelationship, there's one person
who is has this deferredhappiness syndrome and the other
person is a little bit betterat being content I think it
(09:31):
causes a lot of stress in arelationship why are you
smirking?
Cassie (09:35):
because I think we have a little bit of that.
Uh, while I said I've gonethrough you know that a little
bit of it, I'm much more content, I think, in the day to day,
than my partner over there,which you know.
I think there's, I thinkthere's a good side to it too,
(09:56):
like someone who's highlyambitious and wants to achieve
things and has goals.
That's all great, I mean, butthe downside is the I can't be
happy until I do those things,and I think sometimes, in a
relationship especially, it'slike, well, you got to figure
out how to be happy now, becausehere we are.
Chris (10:18):
Yeah, it is great, I think, to have goals and
ambition, but it doesn't theydon't necessarily have to go
hand in hand that while you, ifyou have ambition, you have to
defer happiness.
Cassie (10:28):
Right.
Chris (10:30):
Those two things can be separated and you can abandon
the deferred happiness idea andstill be ambitious.
Cassie (10:37):
Definitely, but sometimes people don't do that.
Chris (10:40):
Right?
Well, I've got a list of thingswe'll get to here in a few
minutes on ways to do that, okay, but I wanted to bring a couple
of resources in.
So there's a guy in the idea ofwhere does it come from?
Where does this deferredhappiness come from?
And I found this guy namedClive Hamilton.
He's an Australian author andhe wrote about this a long time
(11:04):
ago, 2004.
Cassie (11:06):
20 years ago.
It was a long time ago.
It was a long time.
Chris (11:08):
Years ago is a long time, it is a long time I saw a thing
that said if uh, what's themovie?
Um, dazed and confused.
If they were to make a movietoday.
Cassie (11:22):
Yeah.
Chris (11:25):
About a time long ago, just like they did in the
nineties with dazed and confused.
Cassie (11:31):
Yeah.
Chris (11:31):
Then that would be like the early 2000s or something.
It's crazy.
Anyway, Clive Hamilton is anAustralian author and he wrote
that it starts with evolution.
Humans are not designed to behappy, because then we wouldn't
evolve.
We're designed to progress andpush forward, and to do that
(11:51):
there's a dissatisfaction thatoften exists.
Cassie (11:56):
Makes sense.
I mean to change.
Why would you change anythingif you were totally satisfied,
you know.
So having that element ofdissatisfaction is what drives
people to some degree.
Chris (12:10):
So I've been.
That makes sense, but I've beenreading a lot about work lately
and truly a long time ago,hunter, gatherer societies.
It was more of an egalitariansociety where there wasn't
hierarchies, there wasn't thissocietal need to progress and
(12:30):
compare yourself to each otherand say I need to this person's
higher status, I want to meettheir status, I want to raise my
own status and become moreimportant or more prestigious.
It wasn't like that originallyokay it.
I guess he's right.
It evolved into that, but Idon't know if that is innate in
(12:58):
humans or if that's somethingthat our current culture is
making us do.
Is it unnatural or is itnatural?
Cassie (13:12):
are you asking my opinion?
I, I think I'm asking it outinto the world.
If you have an answer, feelfree to I didn't realize that it
hasn't always been that way.
Frankly, I thought there wasalways some degree of wanting
higher status, higher positionin the tribe.
Like you know, you have betterchances of getting a partner of
(13:36):
you know like it.
Chris (13:37):
I thought that was something that was kind of
always a part of life I'm notcompletely schooled in that uh
area of anthropology, so, but myunderstanding is that that is
not a universal idea.
It's not that all um smalltribes and hunter-gatherer
societies did not all have thathierarchy and many didn't.
(14:03):
Um, he goes on to say humansnavigate the world in relation
to where am I in the hierarchy?
And then an article talkingabout his paper.
It says if you think abouttoday and the group that we are
in, if you think about today andthe group that we are in
comparison to, it's Hollywoodstars and people who are
genetically great in the gym.
(14:23):
If we go back not that far, wewould have had small tribes and
we could be the best atsomething, whereas now we are
comparing ourselves to peoplewho are the best in the world,
people who are in the 1% of the1%, because we're-.
Cassie (14:39):
Exposed to it Connected.
Chris (14:40):
Everybody's connected to everybody on the internet, so we
can see the best of the best,the 1% of the 1%.
Cassie (14:50):
Yeah, that's interesting .
The best of the best, the onepercent of the one percent?
Yeah, that's interesting.
I mean it just the comparisontrap that people get themselves
into.
That didn't exist like not thatlong ago.
So has deferred happinessalways been such a thing, or is
that a more recent phenomena, doyou think, like with the
(15:12):
introduction of social media andbeing able to see what everyone
else is doing?
Chris (15:21):
I don't think it started with social media.
Cassie (15:25):
No, I'm not seeing it start.
Do you think it has increasedbecause of?
Chris (15:28):
oh surely, yeah, yeah, the the you know, they call
social media people's highlightreel, because most people only
show the good they don't.
They're not posting about allof the bad times or the losses
in their life.
Most people or normal times ornormal boring times.
Yeah, so everybody, if you lookat you know you've got that one
(15:52):
family you always talk about onInstagram that's always taking
amazing vacations.
They're just always eatinggreat food and traveling and
they always look happy and theirkids are great and they're
pretty people and they're justthis.
It's the highlight reel of thatfamily.
They surely have bad times too,but they're not posting
(16:14):
Instagram pictures of that,right?
So that's what most people doand that's what we see.
So it's hard not to think thatwe don't absorb that
subconsciously and become feelinadequate and feel like we need
to work harder to achievethings, and it forces us into
(16:39):
this trap of not appreciatingwhat we have.
So, yeah, I think social mediahas made it a thousand times
worse.
I'm sure there's somestatistics on that, but yeah,
absolutely.
So.
How might people break thecycle?
I've got a list if you wouldlike me to jump in, unless you
(16:59):
have some ideas of your own.
Cassie (17:02):
No, go right ahead.
Chris (17:04):
So I've got three categories.
Cassie (17:06):
Of how to break the cycle.
Chris (17:07):
Of how to break the cycle of deferring happiness.
So there's some just generalones.
There's a few that clive gordon, the australian author, had,
and then, because we've donesome other episodes on topics
that I think are helpful, I'vegot some ideas from stoicism.
Okay, all right.
(17:28):
So some general ideas.
We have what's to be expectedto some degree.
So mindfulness and meditation.
Cassie (17:34):
Yeah.
Chris (17:36):
So brings you back into the current moment.
You have a set balanced goalshow to pursue aspirations
without sacrificing currenthappiness.
Balanced goals.
I think one way to look at thatis to the the idea of setting
out a process goal and anoutcome goal.
(17:56):
Okay.
An outcome goal is I want torun a marathon.
Process Goal is I want to run afour times a week okay.
So that way, even you know yourbody might not let you on
marathon day get to the finishline because an injury or you
(18:19):
just run out of energy or whathave you.
So the things that you can'tcontrol in that situation might
keep you from being happy if youdon't set a process goal that
you're a little bit more incontrol of.
Yeah, celebrate small victories.
So, along the path to whateveryou're trying to achieve,
(18:40):
celebrate the milestones leadingup to that.
Cassie (18:44):
Okay.
Chris (18:45):
Clive Gordon has five ideas.
It says do things that relateto your purpose.
People who have a purpose willbe happier.
Do you have a purpose?
Cassie (18:59):
That's a big question.
I don't know if I know my exactpurpose.
Chris (19:05):
I bet most people don't have any idea what their purpose
is.
Cassie (19:08):
Well, okay Then.
No, I don't know my purpose doyou know my purpose?
Chris (19:13):
no, do you I've always thought it was art artistic
being artistic.
I don't know that's right.
I don't know if there is aright answer, but learn to live
in the moment.
So, kind of back to mindfulnessand meditation.
Number four at the end of theday, look for two things you did
(19:35):
well and praise yourselfgenuinely.
Learning to look for the goodwill help you to be happier and
build a better relationship withyourself.
Cassie (19:45):
I like that one.
Chris (19:47):
Create your own sanctuary time.
That one create your ownsanctuary time.
Uh, create your own sanctuarytime in your week where you
remove distractions and focus ondoing things you really enjoy
to nourish you in some way,shape or form.
We will all have our ownversion of what this will
involve.
Do you have sanctuary time?
Cassie (20:06):
I do not, nope.
Chris (20:10):
Most of my life is seeking sanctuary time.
Cassie (20:12):
I know.
Chris (20:15):
Value sanctuary time.
Cassie (20:16):
I've never called it sanctuary time.
I like the term, though.
I think that's nice.
Chris (20:23):
So those are Clive Gordon's five ideas.
Do things that relate to yourpurpose, learn to enjoy the
process, learn to live in themoment.
Look for, at the end of the day, two things you did well and
praise yourself genuinely, andthen create sanctuary time.
Okay, stoicism.
Stoicism tells us to focus onwhat you can control.
(20:45):
So kind of back to the processand outcome goals.
So a lot of these are similarideas packaged a little bit
differently.
But yeah, stoicism is focusedon what you can control and
disregard the things you cannotcontrol.
There's no use wasting worryingenergy over things you can't
(21:07):
control.
Live according to nature.
Cassie (21:11):
Okay, that would help with being present.
Right To me it does.
Chris (21:18):
Live according to nature.
Yeah, Be present.
I think those are two differentideas, but they probably relate
.
So Stoicism I'll read what ithas here.
Stoicism teaches living inharmony with nature, including
human nature.
This involves accepting life asit unfolds and finding
(21:39):
contentment in fulfilling yourroles and duties well, rather
than postponing happiness inanticipation of future
achievements or changes.
Number three practicemindfulness and presence.
So that's come up really in allof these different categories.
Uh, use negative visualization.
Do you remember negativevisualization?
Cassie (22:01):
I sure do that's one of the tricky parts of stoicism
thinking about dark?
Chris (22:06):
yeah, it can be dark depending on the topic that
you're visualizing.
Cassie (22:10):
Yeah, I just always immediately go to the worst
possible thing when I think ofthat.
Chris (22:16):
So negative visualization is imagining the worst possible
outcome for a scenario.
So negative visualization for acareer?
Yeah, for a career.
You know you get fired andcan't find a job in your
industry anymore and you have tostart completely over.
(22:36):
Maybe that's a visualization.
And the point of it all is, ifyou visualize the worst possible
outcome, you'll either findthat it's not as bad as you
thought or it will soften theblow if that should happen.
So you're, you're preparing forthat thing, you're mentally
(22:57):
prepared for that to happen.
Or a third option uh, you'llfigure out a way to avoid it.
Yeah, so can be dark becausepeople think about I always just
a lot of the death, and a lotof the examples are around death
and losing somebody you carefor and yeah, that's really dark
(23:18):
and yeah I can understand howpeople don't want to do that
right, but it's supposed to behelpful even in that area.
Cassie (23:26):
Yeah, I can see its value a lot more in the career
or physical things.
Chris (23:35):
Losing something like your house or car.
Yes, so stoicism.
Recommendation number five iscultivate self-sufficiency.
Stoicism teaches that truehappiness comes from within, not
from external circumstances orachievement.
By developing inner resilienceand self-sufficiency, you can
(23:56):
enjoy life regardless ofexternal conditions.
Cassie (24:01):
Appreciation yeah, the author.
He said you know, recognize thetwo things that you did well
that day.
So similar to that.
Chris (24:11):
Number six acceptance.
Learn to accept things as theycome, without resistance or
resentment.
Number seven reflect onimpermanence.
Recognize the temporary,temporary nature of life and all
its experiences.
This recognition helps temperthe desire to postpone joy until
(24:32):
some future date, highlightingthe importance of finding
happiness in the now.
Cassie (24:38):
I think that's my favorite one, one of my
favorites for sure.
I think we could all benefitfrom that daily, knowing that
this is not forever.
Like how things are and youused to remind me of it a lot, I
think, when the kids werelittle.
Like they will eventually sleep, they will eventually eat on
their own, they will get dressedon their own, you know, like
(25:01):
all of the kind of hard the hardparts of life, like they're
just not going to last.
I mean so nothing is forever,and sometimes that's bittersweet
, but sometimes it's also likeyeah, just you know, today might
be terrible because of X, y, z,but in a month from now that
likely won't be the situation.
Chris (25:23):
Yeah, somebody on another podcast, no idea when or where,
but I remember they said thebest parenting advice they ever
got was on those days where itis chaos, you're trying to speak
with your spouse and you can'tbecause the kids are screaming,
(25:43):
they're crying, they're fighting, they're spilling, they're
breaking things, whatever Justthe chaos, and you're annoyed,
you're frustrated.
Maybe you're trying to work,maybe you're trying to work,
maybe you're on the phone, allthose times where the tension is
just rising, rising and youjust want to explode.
Yeah, just picture yourself 30years later in a quiet house in
(26:04):
a quiet house, and how much youwould probably want that moment
back and react in the way thatthat 30-year-older version of
you would suggest you act.
Cassie (26:20):
Yeah, I thought that was good it is.
Chris (26:22):
So another very practical way to avoid deferring
happiness, you know, avoiddeferring happiness to when that
life is not so chaotic.
Yeah, so that's a big one.
So have I uh missed anythingthat you came across?
Cassie (26:43):
no, I, as I was trying to kind of like listen or read,
I kept coming across meditation,mindfulness, that was like a
big thing, just, you know,working on being present.
I liked kind of the the term,the when, then trap.
I think that's a good way towhat's that?
(27:04):
When this happens, then I'llhave this outcome.
So I think kind of thinking notto fall into that trap of
thinking when this happens, thenI'll have this outcome.
So I think kind of thinking notto fall into that trap of
thinking.
Chris (27:17):
When this happens, then you know, yeah, yeah.
Cassie (27:18):
So that's something that I'll take away from it, kind of
, and use.
Chris (27:22):
Well, two last things I have here.
So we're really one, I guess.
So I think what we're going tofind after we do this podcast
for another year, another twoyears, another 10 years,
whatever it may be, yeah, thatthere's going to develop what
I'll dub right now this toolbelt approach to living a good
(27:43):
life.
Okay, because sometimesminimalism is going to be useful
, like when clutter is gettingout of control yeah, very
obvious.
But other times some stoicideas are going to be helpful.
Other times you just need aguide, somebody to kind of
(28:04):
redirect you back into the rightdirection.
Um, so that you know we did the, you know, finding a guru idea
episode, and I think all ofthese different approaches while
it's hard to say that one ofthem is ever going to be like
that's the way to live life, buthaving all of these different
(28:24):
things to pull out of your toolbelt will be useful being able
to pull one idea, negativevisualization out of stoicism
and use that when you'redeferring happiness too much or
worrying about the future.
Cassie (28:43):
Yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it.
I always feel like a few thingsstick with me each time, each
topic, and I'm like that'sreally really useful, While none
of them are the silver bullet,like you said, of this is
definitely the right way.
There's a lot of good elementsthat come from each of the
topics we've discussed so far.
Yeah, anything else, I don'tthink so.
Chris (29:07):
Okay.
Cassie (29:08):
Thanks, thank you, bye.
Chris (29:11):
Bye.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe and leave us a review
, and please tune in next weekfor another edition of A Million
Ways to Live.
Bye-bye, bye.
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