September 26, 2024 • 26 mins
Alison and Mark sit down with Jay Lepple, Production Officer at Bensonwood, to explore the key advantages of offsite construction. In this episode, they delve into the European roots that shaped offsite building practices in the U.S. and discuss some exciting innovations in the industry's future. Learn more about Bensonwood by visiting: https://bensonwood.com/
Learn more about Bensonwood by visiting our website: bensonwood.com
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Jay Lepple (00:00):
Music.
Alison Keay (00:05):
Welcome to a new era of homebuilding, where we
explore sustainable homebuilding, high performance
design, innovative off siteconstruction and groundbreaking
practices that are transformingthe homebuilding industry. This
podcast is produced by Unityhomes, a brand of bensonwood.
Welcome back. Thanks forlistening. I'm Allison Kaye,
Sales Team Lead at Unityhomes, and hosts of the new era
(00:25):
of home building podcast.
Mark Hertzler (00:29):
And I'm Mark Hertzler, co host and director
of unity homes.
Alison Keay (00:32):
And today we're interviewing Jay Lepple,
Production Officer atbensonwood. And just for a
little background on bensonwood,they are an off site fabrication
company that builds panels andtimber frames and millwork and
unity homes. Is one of thebensonwood brands. Bensonwood is
well known for the work of ourowner, Ted Benson and
(00:52):
reinvigorating timber frameconstruction in the United
States. Bensonwood beganproducing building panels as a
solution to the skin of theirtimber frames in the early 2000s
Mark Hertzler (01:04):
and Jay has been with Benson wood for almost the
entire time that they've beenfabricating panels. Jay is the
Production Officer at Bensonwood that covers three different
production facilities, timberframe woodworking and building
systems, plus our procurementdepartments, shipping, receiving
in virtual fabrication. He'sbeen with Benson wood for a
little over 23 years, been inthe construction industry for
(01:27):
somewhere around 30 and is aFIAs certified builder. Welcome
Jay, thank
Jay Lepple (01:34):
you. It's great to be here with such a wonderful
team that's building energyefficient homes for clients that
need them. Awesome. So
Alison Keay (01:43):
we're looking forward to hearing your
perspective on off siteconstruction.
That'll be the topic of ourdiscussion today. So we'll dive
in with some questions. Great.
So Jay, from your experience,why
would somebody pursue offsiteconstruction?
Jay Lepple (02:00):
Well, I think one of the easiest answers is time
savings on the site, from whenour crew gets there with a
foundation already poured to aninsulated, weather resistant,
airtight shell with windows anddoors installed in about a week
or two. So that's an amazingamount of time to just have a
(02:25):
shell up where, in the roughframing community, you could
expect sheathing on a roof. Andyou know, a month to three
months for framing, and whoknows how that works with the
amount of insulation that needsto go in, the air sealing the
windows and doors installed, andso that's a pretty big time
(02:47):
crunch to be able to do that andthen get right into HVAC and the
other trades that need to get inthere and getting into sheetrock
very quickly after that. I thinksome of the other huge perks in
the factory is the quality.
We're in a climate controlledenvironment. We're using CNC
cutting and fabricatingmachines, where the ergonomics
(03:08):
for everything at Waste levelusing vacuum lifts. It's pre
planned with the client and theunity team, and having all this
airtight window is going in in adry assembly. And of course,
with using the larger product weuse with our glue lambs and
engineered lumber at lengths of36 feet, we reduce the waste
(03:32):
that incurs on site, and we'reable to reuse a lot of that.
Alison Keay (03:40):
Yeah. Also, with the on the quality topic being
in a more of a manufacturingenvironment, there's actual
quality control processes thatare involved. It's a quality
assurance for the homeowner thatwhat they're getting is the
product that they signed up
Jay Lepple (03:53):
for. Yeah. And to elaborate on that, we have an
amazing QC process where achecklist follows every panel
through every station throughoutthe facility, so that we ensure
that each thing is getting fixedall along the way, if there is
ever an error, and it's
Mark Hertzler (04:11):
well documented, the labor shortages across many
industries, but especiallyconstruction right now. And I'm
not sure what the average age isof the construction worker, but
I think it's in the 40s, sowe're not getting enough new
people into the field. How doesoff site construction help with
that labor shortage?
Jay Lepple (04:30):
Yeah, I think it taps into a lot of different
areas, one, being inmanufacturing rather than just
being a carpenter. So to say,running around on sites you can
get into the CNC line of work.
So there's there's also a lot ofcomputer knowledge that's needed
in terms of the CAD reading andthe shop drawings that are done
(04:51):
in such a perfected waythroughout the process. So
there's other areas to tap into,and a lot of. Times somebody can
be really great at one part ofthe fabricating process, where
they don't need to be as skilledin a different way. And so it's,
it's actually amazing how faroutreaching we can be to have
(05:13):
skilled associates in theproduction process. So
Alison Keay (05:20):
tell us about the evolution of bensonwood and
Unity's off site construction.
How did it start? What were theearly days like, in
terms of how we accomplished ouroffsite fabrication?
Jay Lepple (05:31):
Well, I think in the early days, we were primarily
focused on timber frames. Andyou know that that came from
this New England area with Tedtearing down old timber frames,
looking at the joinery,understanding it. And so, you
know, the big off site knowledgecame from that, right? He wanted
to bring back that into a shopsetting, create these nice
(05:55):
joints, not in the field, andthen bring them out to site, to
a wreck. So there's always thisunderstanding that we do a lot
of this processing work within afactory setting, and then bring
it out to site because he wasgoing long distances or short
but having the limited site timeto do that, and I would say that
(06:16):
evolved into the sipsmanufacturing of foam core
stress skin panels, where Hughespartnered with a bunch of people
in our area to create theenvelope of these timber frames.
We needed a good insulatedenvelope, airtight envelope,
that would wrap these timberframes. And while that was great
(06:37):
and it's still useful, we wantedsome more systems to be
integrated into our panel systemfor our HVAC subs, and a little
less waste too. We were, we werethrowing rough openings into the
landfill, and that's not good.
So we wanted to be have more ofa green aspect within our
panels. So in the early 2000s westarted developing many, many
(07:00):
different types of panels,giving a chase way for our
electrical subs to run wiresthrough the interiors of our
buildings, try to cut costs onthat, and then start filling our
panels with a different type ofinsulation, cellulose, rather
than the foam. Yeah,
Mark Hertzler (07:21):
I remember the story that Ted has told about
the early days of sub panels andhow things were cut on site. One
time he showed up on site andthere was particles of foam
blowing all over the place, andhe said, No, we cannot do this
anymore. Things have to change.
So I know there's lots ofstories of, sort of the
(07:41):
evolution of Benson wood, andhow they went from SIPPs panels
with foam to the moreenvironmentally friendly panels
of cellulose, yeah, and
Jay Lepple (07:51):
it's a great point, and I think sips still have
their place in the industry, butwe've developed a product that
we've built Hundreds of homeswith, and it works well. It also
during the recession wherepeople were putting a lot of
money into the energy in theenvelope of their home, rather
than the timber frame, thathelped us understand more of a
(08:12):
hybrid timber frame and panelaspect. We had these big, large
walls that had structure in it,so we were able to then create
roof panel strategies too. Atthe time, we were still doing a
hybrid system where we wouldhave a ridge wall and roof
rafters and still cover thosewith sips, but now a lot of
times lopped out, and that'smost of unity, and we're making
(08:36):
large, 14 inch panels withengineered eye joists and with
cellulose to match the wallsystem and the airtight
enclosure we use. So it's reallySpringboard us to the future and
where we are now.
Mark Hertzler (08:51):
Yeah, and I know here in the United States, this
type of construction is stillfairly new. There's the number
of companies that are doing it,but it's not very widespread.
But in other parts of the world,this is actually much more
common, and Scandinavia iscertainly one of them, and
especially Sweden, I thinkyou've been to some of those
factories overseas. What haveyou learned from,
(09:13):
you know, other countries, andhow have we adapted that to what
we're doing here?
Jay Lepple (09:17):
Yeah, we've, we've learned so much in so many
different ways, not just from myvisits, but I think at an early
age of this company, we werelearning a lot from from Japan
in terms of lean, in terms ofthe craft. Same with France,
with the French scribe, and NewEngland itself, from the early
(09:38):
adopters that had timber frameshere. And then, you know,
Germany, Austria, Switzerland. Alot of the technology came from
them. The CNC tooling, thedurable and resilient buildings
they build, the Passive Housestandard. And Scandinavia itself
is just a level above in termsof the. Energy standards and the
(10:01):
off sites construction, and so,you know, the way they are
building over there. There's somuch more off site construction,
as you've said, andunderstanding that they're in a
real competitive market to tocompete with each other, and
saying that everybody does itthis way, not just a small
percentage. They reallyunderstand and it's it's so
(10:23):
efficient, so lean and up tothese energy standards that
we're not even at yet. So whenI'm speaking about Lean, what I
mean is the manufacturingprocess that has been adopted by
many, you know, notably in theToyota industry. But the things
that we do, you know, one of themain thing, is eliminating waste
(10:44):
over production. There's,there's so many, I think there's
eight wastes of lean. I'm notgoing to list them all right
now, but there's a lot of waste,and that's, that's the number
one goal is to eliminate thatwaste that we're not
overproducing, putting bundlesout in the yard, that we don't
need that every but things inits spa and its flow, and that
goes all the way to each andevery tool that each of the
(11:08):
production lines hasattestation. You know, every spa
is a tool. We don't have toolsthere that we don't need.
There's only the tools. There'sonly the fasteners that we need
there. It goes into a lot and itand it's how you can assess not
only the entire manufacturingprocess, but really needle down
into each one of the specificproduction areas in the shop
Alison Keay (11:30):
relate that to the waste that you can imagine with
site built construction, and howmany times people are walking
around to get to differentthings, looking For tools,
wasted materials, all of thosethings come down into the lean
manufacturing process, right?
Jay Lepple (11:45):
That is one of the major waste really, Allison, is
the steps you take to go find apiece of wood or a material or
or the tool you need, or thefastener you need. And that's
something we take veryseriously, not only within the
manufacturing facility, but onsite with our job boxes and
making sure they're set up thesame way. A little
Alison Keay (12:07):
bit of background on that is in the 1970s when the
oil crisis happened, kind ofworldwide, the Scandinavia and
European countries responded byimplementing energy code that is
even surpasses the currentenergy code here in the United
States. And so they've beenbuilding in these high
performance ways since the 1970sand so they're
(12:29):
just light years away ahead ofus. And
Mark Hertzler (12:32):
I know Ted has family connections
in Sweden, and that's part ofthe reason why Unity has a
little bit of a Swedish flarebut when you look at our designs
and our home plans, they allhave Swedish names. So that's
the connection. Is both the whatwe've learned from Sweden as far
as off site construction goes,but also Ted's family
connections there.
Alison Keay (12:52):
So I'm interested in what it was like to go from
the manual construction of thepanels that we used to do in our
shops here in Walpole, and what,what was the main change when we
started building down in Keene,where our new production
facility, what kind of work wasput into preparing
for that? And what are the bigdifferences?
Jay Lepple (13:12):
Yeah, this, it's such a important topic for our
company, and how we've evolved.
We went from a 11,000 squarefoot facility to 100,000 square
foot so in the Lean aspect ofour old facility, where we're
manually doing it, and we onlyhad certain amount of tables,
and we had to bring in walls attimes, and then roofs at times,
(13:33):
and floor systems at times, itreally helped us with a smaller
inventory and getting thehandling of those materials in
the facility, what just in time.
So there was a lot less waste,there was a lot less inventory
needed, but we were doing a lotless volume when we went to the
(13:53):
new facility. Oh my gosh. What ablessing. It was. Just amazing
to move to 100,000 square footfacility with dedicated lines
for our open cavity walls, ourroof assemblies, our floor
systems, our insulated walls andhaving the space to actually
store some of our already drymaterials in a dry place. We now
(14:17):
have two speed cut machinesthere. We have a semi automated
framing machine, two cuttingmachines, a upraiser table, you
know, a gantry that we can storethe panels in and do all kinds
of work, like windows. But whenwe and we have vacuum lifters
all over the place, so nobodyhas to lift sheets by hand. But
(14:41):
I would say that what wasamazing was Paul boa here in the
facility, who's been with thecompany for think 30 plus years.
Really took about a year with anintern of planning this system,
understanding the layout, how wecan really dissect this, working
with myself, working with other.
Of individuals that worked inthe facility and making the best
(15:01):
possible manufacturing linesthat we could. And with that,
you know, when we first jumpedship and went to Keene in the
matter of three months, we wereseeing the efficiency, and I
think that is a testament of howmuch he and others planned for
this and the amazing resultsthat came out of it in such a
short period of time. The otherthing that I just want to say is
(15:24):
to be noted is all thecarpenters that were here, hand
framing, hand sheathing,installing Windows, they just
picked up on the CNC equipmentimmediately. It was amazing how
quickly they were immersed init. It just shows a little bit
about our culture and how muchthey were ready to adapt to
anything that came ahead ofthem.
Mark Hertzler (15:47):
We've been talking a
lot about the off site aspect ofit, but that's only part of it.
The other part of it isassembling the panels on site.
And I want to qualify thisquestion before I ask it,
because, you know, there's asaying, what happens on the
road, stays on the road. So thequestion is, professionally,
what have you learned? What arethe lessons that you've learned
(16:09):
on the road about assembling thepanels and being efficient out
on site? Yeah,
Jay Lepple (16:14):
I'll keep the war stories to a minimum, out on the
out on the road. But the the bigthing, just as Ted learned and
all the people before me, wasbringing anything that was a
challenge on site or that theyhad troubles with, to fix that
(16:35):
within the shop, bring thatback, bring that feedback. We
had such a great team ofengineers and designers. And
typically, that's not the theway information flows in the
construction world. You're in adesign studio or an engineering
studio, and you never really getto talk to those individuals on
site. And those individuals wereencouraged to come back, bring
(16:57):
the feedback back. This is, thisis what's going to make our
timber frames better. These aregoing to make our building
systems better. They have alwaysbeen such an important and
integral part of of our teamhere. And I think, you know,
it's amazing still, that culturethat the designers listen to the
people on the road. How can wedo this better? What are the
(17:18):
fasteners we can use? How can weincrease our speed to keep them
off the road? Because really,all of those individuals now
that are on the production line,we ask that 20% of their time be
on the road, and that's as muchfor them to learn and make sure
that the QC of the productthat's going out is getting
(17:39):
assembled in a way that theyknow they can guarantee that
it's that's going to be perfect.
And I just it just points to theamazing culture that we have.
And they and they all volunteerbasis. They're not told to go
out on the road. They allvolunteer to go out on the road
because they love it when theysee the Unity clients, and we
get these great reports back ofone of the last people the
(18:03):
clients see on the job site fromus is our road crew and our job
captains. And they do, they takesuch pride in what they do while
they're there. And and the airtightness, I should just say,
even though we're probably notgetting into that is is amazing.
You know, the Passive Housestandard is point six air
(18:24):
changes per hour, and theseteams are coming in well below
that in every single one ofthese homes, even though there's
not passive houses. And sothat's amazing, testament to the
quality of both the individualsin the production environment,
in the shop and out on the site.
Mark Hertzler (18:43):
And I can say I've been out on site when
they've done the blower doortests. And those guys, they take
it as a challenge. They'retrying to beat each other when
it gets to the air tightness andthat blower door test. So it's
always nice to see that. And Ithink it's a great thing that
the same people that arebuilding the panels in the
factory, or the people that areassembling it, and so they're
going to make sure thateverything is done right.
(19:05):
Because when you're out on siteand you're responsible for
getting it together, you want tomake sure everything was done
Jay Lepple (19:11):
right. Certainly, yeah, it is a competition, too.
Alison Keay (19:15):
What do you see as the future of off site
construction? Where do you thinkit's going? What do you think
might be possible? Probably bothin the industry in general, but
also bensonwood specifically.
Jay Lepple (19:26):
I'm going to start at a little higher level here
with the the whole country, asas you mentioned before, with
the energy codes, there's thecountry, there's the state,
there's the local jurisdictionsthat we have to abide by maybe a
certain standard, but not allthe time. And so we cross many
states to get this, with thewith the design, the
(19:49):
architectural requirements, theengineering requirements, if
it's code compliant, the energycode. And so it's difficult when
each state. Has somethingdifferent they need to see, or
the local jurisdiction needs tosee. And if we were on a level
playing field with everybodythat had the high energy
standard that you spoke ofearlier, this would be a lot
(20:11):
simpler for all of us to followthese guidelines. So I think
that's somewhere where our wholeentire country can improve.
General contractors that wepartner with. Well, most of them
are fantastic that we work with,but understanding there's a
different business model tobring panelized or off site
construction into their eithertheir brand or their company,
(20:35):
and understand how they couldbuild out multiple houses in a
year, rather than the one thatthey're doing from start to
finish, it would be a hugething.
Alison Keay (20:45):
A lot of the time it can be thought of very
similarly to hiring out yourframing, yeah. So under a
general contractor, they veryregularly hire out the framing.
This is hiring out a highperformance building show,
right?
Jay Lepple (20:57):
And that's where, you know, I always think of
ourselves as a super sub,offsetting multiple different
trades, the framer andsheathing, obviously, and the
insulator. And now we're gettingto the point where we need an
airtight specialist of somesort, on on the on these job
(21:18):
sites, along with a window anddoor installer, which is getting
very pricey, where we can dothis in a factory setting for
much cheaper, you know, chestheight, putting and installing
these windows and doors, wheresometimes these can be on second
and third stories of homes. Youknow, there's a lot more that
can go into this, too. Is, asyou know, in the past we we've
(21:41):
built bathroom pods, we put onsiding, we put on interior
finishes. We've had plug andplay plumbing plug and play
electrical making pods for HVACsystems and other heating
systems and and that's where Ithink we are going to advance,
advance as a whole industry, tosee those things, where we have
(22:06):
more licensed people that can dothat, bring them in the factory.
That's going to be a huge shift,not just bidding on the next job
and going to run wire throughouta whole building, that we'd
actually be doing that in afactory, the siding and trim is
another one that I think is oneof those subcontractor
specialties, or maybe it's theGC, but again, you're working at
(22:27):
heights. You're using either alot of pump staging or lulls or
staging the whole building. Andyou can think of things like
soffit materials. It's alwaysnumber one on my mind, thinking
of being under an eave puttingup soffits, having the rain come
down on you, where you've gotthat panel already flipped that
upside down in the factory, andyou could put all your your sub
(22:51):
fascia on, your soffit on andsave a whole lot of time, and
have your roof done and and afully weatherproof Shell in no
time. So there's so manypossibilities to bring
everything that's happening onsite to off site.
Alison Keay (23:07):
Yeah, the factory setting really is protecting the
investment of the homeowner inwhat they're paying for upfront
with that high performanceshell, the more you can do in
the factory, the quicker it canget installed on site, and the
quicker you are protecting yourinvestment, it's not exposed to
the weather. So
Jay Lepple (23:25):
another, another area that you know, I can see,
the off site world, especiallyin the panelization, is where we
have, we have modulars already,and they have a spot in the
industry, but they require bigboxes going down small roads
that are not big enough forthose those places. So I think
(23:47):
in these populated urban areaswhere you can't always get these
large boxes, and this issomewhere where we can put more
value within each of the panelsand get a building erected
without such largeinfrastructure to bring either
the boxes in or the whole housein to the job site.
Mark Hertzler (24:04):
And just, you know, talking about the country
and industry as a whole, offsiteconstruction is not necessarily
new. You know, it's been aroundfor a while. It goes back to,
you know, the Sears kit homes,as you mentioned. You know, the
modular builders have beenaround for a while, but I think
we're coming to a point where afew things are coming together.
(24:25):
You know, it's the lack of laborthat we have in industry, and
it's also that people are muchmore focused on the quality and
energy efficiency, realizingthat it's not just the finishes
and fixtures that make up ahouse. It's, you know, what's
behind the walls and what youcan't see, and that quality that
you can really get with off siteconstruction. And so you know
(24:49):
all that's coming together,where I really do feel like in
the coming years,this is going to take off much
more than it has in the past.
Jay Lepple (24:57):
Yeah, for sure, I'm excited to be part of it. Yeah.
It well.
Alison Keay (25:01):
Thank you for sharing your insight. It's
been great talking off siteconstruction with you, Jay. We
hope you come back for somefuture episodes to share more of
your knowledge with us
Mark Hertzler (25:11):
and your stories from the road and the story,
Alison Keay (25:15):
and thank you for listening. We're hope you're
excited about off siteconstruction and that you
learned some new things.
Jay Lepple (25:21):
Thanks Alison and Mark,
Alison Keay (25:25):
thanks for listening to another episode of
a new era of home building. Ifyou're passionate about high
performance homes like we are,be sure to subscribe to our
podcast and stay tuned for ournext episode on building
certifications with our guest,Beth Campbell. You can also
visit unityhomes.com to learnmore about our upcoming events.
Subscribe to our newsletter.
Check out our home plans and getin touch. Thanks to George
(25:45):
Peavey, Jason reamer and JoshRiemer of our company's very own
plum Gable band for the musicyou hear on this podcast, and
thanks to Damaris Graham for theproduction and editing of the
podcast. We hope you enjoyedthis episode. Until next time,
I'm Allison Kang and I'm MarkHertzler, and here's to better
building you.
Music.
Alison Keay (00:05):
Welcome to a new era of homebuilding, where we
explore sustainable homebuilding, high performance
design, innovative off siteconstruction and groundbreaking
practices that are transformingthe homebuilding industry. This
podcast is produced by Unityhomes, a brand of bensonwood.
Welcome back. Thanks forlistening. I'm Allison Kaye,
Sales Team Lead at Unityhomes, and hosts of the new era
(00:25):
of home building podcast.
Mark Hertzler (00:29):
And I'm Mark Hertzler, co host and director
of unity homes.
Alison Keay (00:32):
And today we're interviewing Jay Lepple,
Production Officer atbensonwood. And just for a
little background on bensonwood,they are an off site fabrication
company that builds panels andtimber frames and millwork and
unity homes. Is one of thebensonwood brands. Bensonwood is
well known for the work of ourowner, Ted Benson and
(00:52):
reinvigorating timber frameconstruction in the United
States. Bensonwood beganproducing building panels as a
solution to the skin of theirtimber frames in the early 2000s
Mark Hertzler (01:04):
and Jay has been with Benson wood for almost the
entire time that they've beenfabricating panels. Jay is the
Production Officer at Bensonwood that covers three different
production facilities, timberframe woodworking and building
systems, plus our procurementdepartments, shipping, receiving
in virtual fabrication. He'sbeen with Benson wood for a
little over 23 years, been inthe construction industry for
(01:27):
somewhere around 30 and is aFIAs certified builder. Welcome
Jay, thank
Jay Lepple (01:34):
you. It's great to be here with such a wonderful
team that's building energyefficient homes for clients that
need them. Awesome. So
Alison Keay (01:43):
we're looking forward to hearing your
perspective on off siteconstruction.
That'll be the topic of ourdiscussion today. So we'll dive
in with some questions. Great.
So Jay, from your experience,why
would somebody pursue offsiteconstruction?
Jay Lepple (02:00):
Well, I think one of the easiest answers is time
savings on the site, from whenour crew gets there with a
foundation already poured to aninsulated, weather resistant,
airtight shell with windows anddoors installed in about a week
or two. So that's an amazingamount of time to just have a
(02:25):
shell up where, in the roughframing community, you could
expect sheathing on a roof. Andyou know, a month to three
months for framing, and whoknows how that works with the
amount of insulation that needsto go in, the air sealing the
windows and doors installed, andso that's a pretty big time
(02:47):
crunch to be able to do that andthen get right into HVAC and the
other trades that need to get inthere and getting into sheetrock
very quickly after that. I thinksome of the other huge perks in
the factory is the quality.
We're in a climate controlledenvironment. We're using CNC
cutting and fabricatingmachines, where the ergonomics
(03:08):
for everything at Waste levelusing vacuum lifts. It's pre
planned with the client and theunity team, and having all this
airtight window is going in in adry assembly. And of course,
with using the larger product weuse with our glue lambs and
engineered lumber at lengths of36 feet, we reduce the waste
(03:32):
that incurs on site, and we'reable to reuse a lot of that.
Alison Keay (03:40):
Yeah. Also, with the on the quality topic being
in a more of a manufacturingenvironment, there's actual
quality control processes thatare involved. It's a quality
assurance for the homeowner thatwhat they're getting is the
product that they signed up
Jay Lepple (03:53):
for. Yeah. And to elaborate on that, we have an
amazing QC process where achecklist follows every panel
through every station throughoutthe facility, so that we ensure
that each thing is getting fixedall along the way, if there is
ever an error, and it's
Mark Hertzler (04:11):
well documented, the labor shortages across many
industries, but especiallyconstruction right now. And I'm
not sure what the average age isof the construction worker, but
I think it's in the 40s, sowe're not getting enough new
people into the field. How doesoff site construction help with
that labor shortage?
Jay Lepple (04:30):
Yeah, I think it taps into a lot of different
areas, one, being inmanufacturing rather than just
being a carpenter. So to say,running around on sites you can
get into the CNC line of work.
So there's there's also a lot ofcomputer knowledge that's needed
in terms of the CAD reading andthe shop drawings that are done
(04:51):
in such a perfected waythroughout the process. So
there's other areas to tap into,and a lot of. Times somebody can
be really great at one part ofthe fabricating process, where
they don't need to be as skilledin a different way. And so it's,
it's actually amazing how faroutreaching we can be to have
(05:13):
skilled associates in theproduction process. So
Alison Keay (05:20):
tell us about the evolution of bensonwood and
Unity's off site construction.
How did it start? What were theearly days like, in
terms of how we accomplished ouroffsite fabrication?
Jay Lepple (05:31):
Well, I think in the early days, we were primarily
focused on timber frames. Andyou know that that came from
this New England area with Tedtearing down old timber frames,
looking at the joinery,understanding it. And so, you
know, the big off site knowledgecame from that, right? He wanted
to bring back that into a shopsetting, create these nice
(05:55):
joints, not in the field, andthen bring them out to site, to
a wreck. So there's always thisunderstanding that we do a lot
of this processing work within afactory setting, and then bring
it out to site because he wasgoing long distances or short
but having the limited site timeto do that, and I would say that
(06:16):
evolved into the sipsmanufacturing of foam core
stress skin panels, where Hughespartnered with a bunch of people
in our area to create theenvelope of these timber frames.
We needed a good insulatedenvelope, airtight envelope,
that would wrap these timberframes. And while that was great
(06:37):
and it's still useful, we wantedsome more systems to be
integrated into our panel systemfor our HVAC subs, and a little
less waste too. We were, we werethrowing rough openings into the
landfill, and that's not good.
So we wanted to be have more ofa green aspect within our
panels. So in the early 2000s westarted developing many, many
(07:00):
different types of panels,giving a chase way for our
electrical subs to run wiresthrough the interiors of our
buildings, try to cut costs onthat, and then start filling our
panels with a different type ofinsulation, cellulose, rather
than the foam. Yeah,
Mark Hertzler (07:21):
I remember the story that Ted has told about
the early days of sub panels andhow things were cut on site. One
time he showed up on site andthere was particles of foam
blowing all over the place, andhe said, No, we cannot do this
anymore. Things have to change.
So I know there's lots ofstories of, sort of the
(07:41):
evolution of Benson wood, andhow they went from SIPPs panels
with foam to the moreenvironmentally friendly panels
of cellulose, yeah, and
Jay Lepple (07:51):
it's a great point, and I think sips still have
their place in the industry, butwe've developed a product that
we've built Hundreds of homeswith, and it works well. It also
during the recession wherepeople were putting a lot of
money into the energy in theenvelope of their home, rather
than the timber frame, thathelped us understand more of a
(08:12):
hybrid timber frame and panelaspect. We had these big, large
walls that had structure in it,so we were able to then create
roof panel strategies too. Atthe time, we were still doing a
hybrid system where we wouldhave a ridge wall and roof
rafters and still cover thosewith sips, but now a lot of
times lopped out, and that'smost of unity, and we're making
(08:36):
large, 14 inch panels withengineered eye joists and with
cellulose to match the wallsystem and the airtight
enclosure we use. So it's reallySpringboard us to the future and
where we are now.
Mark Hertzler (08:51):
Yeah, and I know here in the United States, this
type of construction is stillfairly new. There's the number
of companies that are doing it,but it's not very widespread.
But in other parts of the world,this is actually much more
common, and Scandinavia iscertainly one of them, and
especially Sweden, I thinkyou've been to some of those
factories overseas. What haveyou learned from,
(09:13):
you know, other countries, andhow have we adapted that to what
we're doing here?
Jay Lepple (09:17):
Yeah, we've, we've learned so much in so many
different ways, not just from myvisits, but I think at an early
age of this company, we werelearning a lot from from Japan
in terms of lean, in terms ofthe craft. Same with France,
with the French scribe, and NewEngland itself, from the early
(09:38):
adopters that had timber frameshere. And then, you know,
Germany, Austria, Switzerland. Alot of the technology came from
them. The CNC tooling, thedurable and resilient buildings
they build, the Passive Housestandard. And Scandinavia itself
is just a level above in termsof the. Energy standards and the
(10:01):
off sites construction, and so,you know, the way they are
building over there. There's somuch more off site construction,
as you've said, andunderstanding that they're in a
real competitive market to tocompete with each other, and
saying that everybody does itthis way, not just a small
percentage. They reallyunderstand and it's it's so
(10:23):
efficient, so lean and up tothese energy standards that
we're not even at yet. So whenI'm speaking about Lean, what I
mean is the manufacturingprocess that has been adopted by
many, you know, notably in theToyota industry. But the things
that we do, you know, one of themain thing, is eliminating waste
(10:44):
over production. There's,there's so many, I think there's
eight wastes of lean. I'm notgoing to list them all right
now, but there's a lot of waste,and that's, that's the number
one goal is to eliminate thatwaste that we're not
overproducing, putting bundlesout in the yard, that we don't
need that every but things inits spa and its flow, and that
goes all the way to each andevery tool that each of the
(11:08):
production lines hasattestation. You know, every spa
is a tool. We don't have toolsthere that we don't need.
There's only the tools. There'sonly the fasteners that we need
there. It goes into a lot and itand it's how you can assess not
only the entire manufacturingprocess, but really needle down
into each one of the specificproduction areas in the shop
Alison Keay (11:30):
relate that to the waste that you can imagine with
site built construction, and howmany times people are walking
around to get to differentthings, looking For tools,
wasted materials, all of thosethings come down into the lean
manufacturing process, right?
Jay Lepple (11:45):
That is one of the major waste really, Allison, is
the steps you take to go find apiece of wood or a material or
or the tool you need, or thefastener you need. And that's
something we take veryseriously, not only within the
manufacturing facility, but onsite with our job boxes and
making sure they're set up thesame way. A little
Alison Keay (12:07):
bit of background on that is in the 1970s when the
oil crisis happened, kind ofworldwide, the Scandinavia and
European countries responded byimplementing energy code that is
even surpasses the currentenergy code here in the United
States. And so they've beenbuilding in these high
performance ways since the 1970sand so they're
(12:29):
just light years away ahead ofus. And
Mark Hertzler (12:32):
I know Ted has family connections
in Sweden, and that's part ofthe reason why Unity has a
little bit of a Swedish flarebut when you look at our designs
and our home plans, they allhave Swedish names. So that's
the connection. Is both the whatwe've learned from Sweden as far
as off site construction goes,but also Ted's family
connections there.
Alison Keay (12:52):
So I'm interested in what it was like to go from
the manual construction of thepanels that we used to do in our
shops here in Walpole, and what,what was the main change when we
started building down in Keene,where our new production
facility, what kind of work wasput into preparing
for that? And what are the bigdifferences?
Jay Lepple (13:12):
Yeah, this, it's such a important topic for our
company, and how we've evolved.
We went from a 11,000 squarefoot facility to 100,000 square
foot so in the Lean aspect ofour old facility, where we're
manually doing it, and we onlyhad certain amount of tables,
and we had to bring in walls attimes, and then roofs at times,
(13:33):
and floor systems at times, itreally helped us with a smaller
inventory and getting thehandling of those materials in
the facility, what just in time.
So there was a lot less waste,there was a lot less inventory
needed, but we were doing a lotless volume when we went to the
(13:53):
new facility. Oh my gosh. What ablessing. It was. Just amazing
to move to 100,000 square footfacility with dedicated lines
for our open cavity walls, ourroof assemblies, our floor
systems, our insulated walls andhaving the space to actually
store some of our already drymaterials in a dry place. We now
(14:17):
have two speed cut machinesthere. We have a semi automated
framing machine, two cuttingmachines, a upraiser table, you
know, a gantry that we can storethe panels in and do all kinds
of work, like windows. But whenwe and we have vacuum lifters
all over the place, so nobodyhas to lift sheets by hand. But
(14:41):
I would say that what wasamazing was Paul boa here in the
facility, who's been with thecompany for think 30 plus years.
Really took about a year with anintern of planning this system,
understanding the layout, how wecan really dissect this, working
with myself, working with other.
Of individuals that worked inthe facility and making the best
(15:01):
possible manufacturing linesthat we could. And with that,
you know, when we first jumpedship and went to Keene in the
matter of three months, we wereseeing the efficiency, and I
think that is a testament of howmuch he and others planned for
this and the amazing resultsthat came out of it in such a
short period of time. The otherthing that I just want to say is
(15:24):
to be noted is all thecarpenters that were here, hand
framing, hand sheathing,installing Windows, they just
picked up on the CNC equipmentimmediately. It was amazing how
quickly they were immersed init. It just shows a little bit
about our culture and how muchthey were ready to adapt to
anything that came ahead ofthem.
Mark Hertzler (15:47):
We've been talking a
lot about the off site aspect ofit, but that's only part of it.
The other part of it isassembling the panels on site.
And I want to qualify thisquestion before I ask it,
because, you know, there's asaying, what happens on the
road, stays on the road. So thequestion is, professionally,
what have you learned? What arethe lessons that you've learned
(16:09):
on the road about assembling thepanels and being efficient out
on site? Yeah,
Jay Lepple (16:14):
I'll keep the war stories to a minimum, out on the
out on the road. But the the bigthing, just as Ted learned and
all the people before me, wasbringing anything that was a
challenge on site or that theyhad troubles with, to fix that
(16:35):
within the shop, bring thatback, bring that feedback. We
had such a great team ofengineers and designers. And
typically, that's not the theway information flows in the
construction world. You're in adesign studio or an engineering
studio, and you never really getto talk to those individuals on
site. And those individuals wereencouraged to come back, bring
(16:57):
the feedback back. This is, thisis what's going to make our
timber frames better. These aregoing to make our building
systems better. They have alwaysbeen such an important and
integral part of of our teamhere. And I think, you know,
it's amazing still, that culturethat the designers listen to the
people on the road. How can wedo this better? What are the
(17:18):
fasteners we can use? How can weincrease our speed to keep them
off the road? Because really,all of those individuals now
that are on the production line,we ask that 20% of their time be
on the road, and that's as muchfor them to learn and make sure
that the QC of the productthat's going out is getting
(17:39):
assembled in a way that theyknow they can guarantee that
it's that's going to be perfect.
And I just it just points to theamazing culture that we have.
And they and they all volunteerbasis. They're not told to go
out on the road. They allvolunteer to go out on the road
because they love it when theysee the Unity clients, and we
get these great reports back ofone of the last people the
(18:03):
clients see on the job site fromus is our road crew and our job
captains. And they do, they takesuch pride in what they do while
they're there. And and the airtightness, I should just say,
even though we're probably notgetting into that is is amazing.
You know, the Passive Housestandard is point six air
(18:24):
changes per hour, and theseteams are coming in well below
that in every single one ofthese homes, even though there's
not passive houses. And sothat's amazing, testament to the
quality of both the individualsin the production environment,
in the shop and out on the site.
Mark Hertzler (18:43):
And I can say I've been out on site when
they've done the blower doortests. And those guys, they take
it as a challenge. They'retrying to beat each other when
it gets to the air tightness andthat blower door test. So it's
always nice to see that. And Ithink it's a great thing that
the same people that arebuilding the panels in the
factory, or the people that areassembling it, and so they're
going to make sure thateverything is done right.
(19:05):
Because when you're out on siteand you're responsible for
getting it together, you want tomake sure everything was done
Jay Lepple (19:11):
right. Certainly, yeah, it is a competition, too.
Alison Keay (19:15):
What do you see as the future of off site
construction? Where do you thinkit's going? What do you think
might be possible? Probably bothin the industry in general, but
also bensonwood specifically.
Jay Lepple (19:26):
I'm going to start at a little higher level here
with the the whole country, asas you mentioned before, with
the energy codes, there's thecountry, there's the state,
there's the local jurisdictionsthat we have to abide by maybe a
certain standard, but not allthe time. And so we cross many
states to get this, with thewith the design, the
(19:49):
architectural requirements, theengineering requirements, if
it's code compliant, the energycode. And so it's difficult when
each state. Has somethingdifferent they need to see, or
the local jurisdiction needs tosee. And if we were on a level
playing field with everybodythat had the high energy
standard that you spoke ofearlier, this would be a lot
(20:11):
simpler for all of us to followthese guidelines. So I think
that's somewhere where our wholeentire country can improve.
General contractors that wepartner with. Well, most of them
are fantastic that we work with,but understanding there's a
different business model tobring panelized or off site
construction into their eithertheir brand or their company,
(20:35):
and understand how they couldbuild out multiple houses in a
year, rather than the one thatthey're doing from start to
finish, it would be a hugething.
Alison Keay (20:45):
A lot of the time it can be thought of very
similarly to hiring out yourframing, yeah. So under a
general contractor, they veryregularly hire out the framing.
This is hiring out a highperformance building show,
right?
Jay Lepple (20:57):
And that's where, you know, I always think of
ourselves as a super sub,offsetting multiple different
trades, the framer andsheathing, obviously, and the
insulator. And now we're gettingto the point where we need an
airtight specialist of somesort, on on the on these job
(21:18):
sites, along with a window anddoor installer, which is getting
very pricey, where we can dothis in a factory setting for
much cheaper, you know, chestheight, putting and installing
these windows and doors, wheresometimes these can be on second
and third stories of homes. Youknow, there's a lot more that
can go into this, too. Is, asyou know, in the past we we've
(21:41):
built bathroom pods, we put onsiding, we put on interior
finishes. We've had plug andplay plumbing plug and play
electrical making pods for HVACsystems and other heating
systems and and that's where Ithink we are going to advance,
advance as a whole industry, tosee those things, where we have
(22:06):
more licensed people that can dothat, bring them in the factory.
That's going to be a huge shift,not just bidding on the next job
and going to run wire throughouta whole building, that we'd
actually be doing that in afactory, the siding and trim is
another one that I think is oneof those subcontractor
specialties, or maybe it's theGC, but again, you're working at
(22:27):
heights. You're using either alot of pump staging or lulls or
staging the whole building. Andyou can think of things like
soffit materials. It's alwaysnumber one on my mind, thinking
of being under an eave puttingup soffits, having the rain come
down on you, where you've gotthat panel already flipped that
upside down in the factory, andyou could put all your your sub
(22:51):
fascia on, your soffit on andsave a whole lot of time, and
have your roof done and and afully weatherproof Shell in no
time. So there's so manypossibilities to bring
everything that's happening onsite to off site.
Alison Keay (23:07):
Yeah, the factory setting really is protecting the
investment of the homeowner inwhat they're paying for upfront
with that high performanceshell, the more you can do in
the factory, the quicker it canget installed on site, and the
quicker you are protecting yourinvestment, it's not exposed to
the weather. So
Jay Lepple (23:25):
another, another area that you know, I can see,
the off site world, especiallyin the panelization, is where we
have, we have modulars already,and they have a spot in the
industry, but they require bigboxes going down small roads
that are not big enough forthose those places. So I think
(23:47):
in these populated urban areaswhere you can't always get these
large boxes, and this issomewhere where we can put more
value within each of the panelsand get a building erected
without such largeinfrastructure to bring either
the boxes in or the whole housein to the job site.
Mark Hertzler (24:04):
And just, you know, talking about the country
and industry as a whole, offsiteconstruction is not necessarily
new. You know, it's been aroundfor a while. It goes back to,
you know, the Sears kit homes,as you mentioned. You know, the
modular builders have beenaround for a while, but I think
we're coming to a point where afew things are coming together.
(24:25):
You know, it's the lack of laborthat we have in industry, and
it's also that people are muchmore focused on the quality and
energy efficiency, realizingthat it's not just the finishes
and fixtures that make up ahouse. It's, you know, what's
behind the walls and what youcan't see, and that quality that
you can really get with off siteconstruction. And so you know
(24:49):
all that's coming together,where I really do feel like in
the coming years,this is going to take off much
more than it has in the past.
Jay Lepple (24:57):
Yeah, for sure, I'm excited to be part of it. Yeah.
It well.
Alison Keay (25:01):
Thank you for sharing your insight. It's
been great talking off siteconstruction with you, Jay. We
hope you come back for somefuture episodes to share more of
your knowledge with us
Mark Hertzler (25:11):
and your stories from the road and the story,
Alison Keay (25:15):
and thank you for listening. We're hope you're
excited about off siteconstruction and that you
learned some new things.
Jay Lepple (25:21):
Thanks Alison and Mark,
Alison Keay (25:25):
thanks for listening to another episode of
a new era of home building. Ifyou're passionate about high
performance homes like we are,be sure to subscribe to our
podcast and stay tuned for ournext episode on building
certifications with our guest,Beth Campbell. You can also
visit unityhomes.com to learnmore about our upcoming events.
Subscribe to our newsletter.
Check out our home plans and getin touch. Thanks to George
(25:45):
Peavey, Jason reamer and JoshRiemer of our company's very own
plum Gable band for the musicyou hear on this podcast, and
thanks to Damaris Graham for theproduction and editing of the
podcast. We hope you enjoyedthis episode. Until next time,
I'm Allison Kang and I'm MarkHertzler, and here's to better
building you.
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