Good-bye and thank-you Mr Righty (Testicular cancer)

All feedback and questions welcome

Eddie Enever is a champion. He lost his testical ("Mr Righty") to cancer followed by 3 relapses over the next couple of years. He realised that his life priorities needed to change; and quickly! Eddie's journey of transformation came through a deeper understanding of self which dramatically improved his health. The knowledge gained  has empowered Eddie to assist hundred's of other people diagnosed with cancer.

Episode Transcript

Daniel Baden (00:16):
Eddie Enever, we go back some time. hope you
remember, but we workedtogether I'm thinking maybe 2008
or 2019? Something like that.

Eddie Enever (00:26):
Yeah, yeah, a while ago, a lot has happened

Daniel Baden (00:29):
A lot has happened. And this is probably
one of the most interestingpodcasts, I think we're going to
come across because your storyis quite extraordinary. And you
went from cancer three times,laced with anxiety and
depression. You had a marriagebreakup, you had financial
issues associated with all ofthat. Now you are like this

(00:51):
thriving, deeply connected humanbeing with lots of meaning and
purpose in your life. Andthere's a whole story in between
that. So I'm really keen onexploring how people in your
situation or your old situation,get to be where you are today.
How are you mate?

Eddie Enever (01:10):
yeah, very good.
Thank you for having me on. I'mreally enjoy doing these just to
have a really importantconversations around this.
Because as you know, it's very,very common. I think it's the
latest Australian stats. 43% ofAustralians in their lifetime
are going to be met with acancer diagnosis. So it's good
to be able to talk and give somepeople some insight why maybe
what it can be like, I

Daniel Baden (01:30):
I think one of the most important things is that
people in the cancer communityunderstand and start to have a
real sense of what they can doto improve their own life. And I
think that's what's really goodabout speaking to people like
you, so it's cool.

Eddie Enever (01:48):
Yeah, and I thank you. Yeah, like I always say it
takes one person to prove thatas possible. I have an
extraordinary outcome. But I'mnot the only one. There's 1000s.
There's books written on thisstuff like Kellyanne Turner's,
and Jeff radicals in his bookcured, documenting, you know,
hundreds and 1000s of patientsthat have had these and only
takes one person to prove thatthat is possible. So it's nice
to be able to talk about it,say, hey, it is actually

(02:10):
possible. Don't Don't give uphope. There is hope in

Daniel Baden (02:13):
your type of cancer was testicular cancer. It
was and you discovered ityourself. Could you just let me
know how you discovered?

Eddie Enever (02:21):
Yeah, with a lot of shock. Personal share;
overshare, in the shower, doinga self examination, and I went
all odia that shouldn't be likethat. So the artist, he was
incredibly large and hard, whichit shouldn't be. It was just
lucky that I had a friend whowas a very good doctor who was
also a doctor. So I couldconsult with him and say, hey,

(02:44):
something's not right there. Sohe managed to expediate that
process, which then took me onthe chaotic journey of
diagnosis. But yeah, it startedwith me just noticing something
wasn't right. And to be honest,though, there were probably lots
of little whispers from my body.
But you know, I'm sure we'll getinto it. You know, where I was
in my, my health journey, mylife journey at that stage. I
couldn't hear those whispers. Sothey sort of fell on deaf ears

(03:07):
because it was too much in myhead and my stress in my
business in on, on retrospect,looking there were there were
telltale signs that hey,something wasn't right. But it
all started with just noticingthat that wasn't right.

Daniel Baden (03:20):
You said the teste was was hard and large, was that
one lump that was sticking out?
Or was

Unknown (03:27):
the whole thing the whole thing. So my margin was
quite deep inside the teste sobasically, it took over most of
the teste. So it just ended upnot being like a weird, Lumpy,
odd shape. It was just larger,but hard. Hard was the thing.
They shouldn't be rock hard. Andthis was clearly rock hard. And
I was getting some pain in theinguinal canal, that sort of
pelvis area crease area. Andthat was also just another sign

(03:49):
that all maybe things aren'tquite right.

Daniel Baden (03:52):
And did you have other body symptoms or fever or
inflammation?

Eddie Enever (03:56):
No. Nothing like that. Again, there were probably
things on retrospect if I was todig around if I could actually
remember back that far, thatthere probably were some things
but you know, a lot of thesymptoms sometimes we can't see
you know, the the nonspecificthere could be a lot of things
you know, maybe some skinconditions or maybe not feeling
quite right or like you sayfever, what could be fatal all

(04:18):
sorts of things, especially inthis day and age with viruses
and colds and flus and all thisstuff.

Daniel Baden (04:23):
How old were you when you discovered it?

Unknown (04:25):
I was 33, 10 days before Christmas. It was a an
interesting Christmas that one

Daniel Baden (04:30):
Scary Christmas, I'm sure how long after the
first you first discovered thedifference in your testes? Was
the diagnosis of cancer made?

Eddie Enever (04:40):
Yeah, so diagnosis came very quickly like within
days. So that was I wasdiagnosed 10 days before
Christmas and other six dayslater I was in surgery. So
getting Mr. Right here as Iaffectionately refer to him as
chopped off, never to be seenagain. So yeah, that then
launched me into what the fuckfollow up care was which was a

(05:01):
little bit of rest. And thenwhat was recommended at that
stage was one dose of a singlechemotherapy agent called
carboplatin in early February,after a lot of deliberation,
obviously as a naturopath it wasin the health world naturally
sort of had a natural bias andthe big C chemo, very scary.
Just I think anyone who sort ofthinks about chemo probably

(05:23):
thinks toxic poisons. So it wasvery hard for me to get my head
around just having that oneobviously, my my mind built it
up into something massive. I wasgoing to be debilitated and
fading her away gone in the facefor one dose of chemo, but it
certainly wasn't anything likethat. But you know, the mind
goes there, which it does withit but can't say no to that

(05:43):
worst case scenariocatastrophizing, that anxiety
around it.

Daniel Baden (05:46):
Sure. And had you had any children by them?

Eddie Enever (05:49):
I did. I did. So I had a two and a half year old
son and I had a pregnant wifewhen I was diagnosed, she was
heavily pregnant. Even myyoungest was actually born in
February, early Feb, so she wasalmost ready to pop. And so it
was pretty, it's pretty hectic,you know, 33, prominent life and
I expected to hear the C wordyou've got cancer, in the prime
of having business and careerhere and raising a family and a

(06:13):
young family and a home and allthis stuff and then is suddenly
dealt with cancer, life suddenlycame crumbling down. It was very
hard to swallow in that earlystage.

Daniel Baden (06:23):
I'm sure there was some pretty deep discussions
over that Christmas there wasbut there

Eddie Enever (06:27):
was also a lot of shock, you know, sort of freeze
up Oh, holy moly, like whatwhat? This wasn't, this wasn't
in the agenda.

Daniel Baden (06:33):
You were treated.
You had the Teste removed, youhad the chemo, the one dose, but
over the next two years, youalso had three, two more
relapses, I believe

Eddie Enever (06:41):
I had three relapses. In those two years, I
had multiple dances with thisthing. So I had that the
surgery, a little bit ofrecovery time, and then one dose
of carboplatin, which wassupposed to be just a clean up
insurance policy. From allintensive purposes, you know,
the test he was involved, butthere was some indication that
the cancer got into my lymphaticsystem. So it's called

(07:04):
lymphovascular infiltration thatthey they look at under the
microscope, they could see thata control lymphatic system so
the risk is that it travels upthe lymphatic tract. And so the
chemo is supposed to justbasically clean up anything that
might have gone into thebloodstream into the lymph and
so went through with that. Butsix months later, I was really
diagnosed certainly up thatlymphatic tract. So the first

(07:24):
train station if you'd like upthe lymphatic tract from that in
between or region is what'scalled the Para aortic lymph
nodes. So it's a chain of lymphnodes that run up there, the
major vessels in the abdomen,that the most common spot for a
very lapse or a secondarytesticular is in right in the
center of the abdomen, and so ona PET scan and surveillance
therapy, which just means whenyour your oncologist is

(07:46):
monitoring you for earlydetection, you have periodic
scans, and generally every threemonths or so, it showed up on a
scan. I was like, Oh, here wego. It's unfortunately it did
escape. This came I didn't cleanit up. And then I was met with
much, much stronger treatmentthat time around.

Daniel Baden (08:04):
And much stronger treatment means more doses of
carboplatin?

Eddie Enever (08:08):
Yeah, well, more than that. So testicular cancer
out of all the cancers, there'sonly a handful that are highly
treatable from modern oncology.
And we're chemotherapies veryeffective for testicular if
you're lucky enough to havetestes to get it is the best
cancer to get. So they have veryhigh success rate with with
chemotherapy in the realms ofsort of 94 98% success, but they
really hit you hard. So whatchemo looked like for me was on

(08:31):
a Monday, I'd have three chemotherapies on a Monday. And then
Tuesday through Sunday, I wouldhave to chemotherapies every
single day of the week. So afull week of a lot of
chemotherapy, and then two weeksoff, and that was a cycle a
three week cycle. So it wasvery, very aggressive treatment.
Most people out there to put itin perspective, if you've got a
breast cancer or something. Hemay get maybe one chemo or chemo

(08:52):
and another drug once afortnight or once every 21 days.
So it was very heavy, intensetreatment because they know that
they have a really good chanceat targeting and destroying
these germ cells and tumors thatare cold. So yeah, it was very
heavy, not fun to go through.

Daniel Baden (09:10):
Because of carboplatin. And some of those
drugs have a strong associationwith things like peripheral
neuropathy is definitely deaf.
Did you have any of those sortsof studies?

Eddie Enever (09:19):
I did. So the cornerstone of chemo is
cisplatin, so it's carboplatens. uglier grumpier cousin.
We call it very aggressivechemotherapy. So it's a platinum
based drugs. That's essentiallyplatinum toxicity is what
they're giving you. And theplatinum loves nerves. And so I
did get a lot of neuropathies inmy feet in particular, but
they've got very sort of timidlyand quite numb, but I also got

(09:42):
to meet years. So my hearingwent quite tinny, which was
quite bizarre. It did resolveafter all my treatment many
years later, it took a longtime. Nerves are very slow to
regenerate. But yeah, a lot ofside effects. You know, that
that sort of chemotherapy in thesystem toxic drugs, my digestive
system would literally shut downOn for that second week, I'd be
alright that first week becauseyou're sort of keep began with

(10:04):
steroids through your chemojourney and you're, you're not
too bad you're definitely notfeeling good. But it's the
second week when the steroidswean out of the system and then
all the side effects of thischemo start to shine through. I
was totally incapacitated forthat second week, unable to move
my digestive system andliterally went offline for a
week, which was veryuncomfortable. Yeah, so it was

(10:25):
really just trying to survivethrough that period. It's very
hard.

Daniel Baden (10:29):
Because you're a naturopath, did you consider any
other supplements or herbs ordietary changes what you're
going through?

Unknown (10:36):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I did . And in saying that, thatarea of the world is fantastic.
But when you are absolutelycapacitated literally feeling
like death, it's it was quitehard to follow through on some
things consistently, especiallynext week where I was bed
bedridden, and literally out ofit. It was very hard to the last
week. So one week out or three,you were back on board some

(10:56):
level. So you could obviouslyeat well and look at some
supplementation. So I did I hada lot of skills, being a
naturopath and I was alreadyworking with a lot of people
with cancer. So I knew what Ineeded to do. But the
application of it was tricky, tobe honest.

Daniel Baden (11:10):
It's hard to be your own physician as well.
Yeah,

Eddie Enever (11:14):
I luckily I had, you know, a lot of support and
ended up where my marriageshould break down through that
journey. I did. I had no choicebut I had to move in with dear
old mum and so yes. Mother'slove to to nourish you through,
say I think she absolutelyreveled in it.

Daniel Baden (11:29):
Okay, so you're under a quite a bit of stress.
You mentioned that you're understress before the diagnosis
because like many young people,you're trying to build a life
with work and family and allthat sort of thing. The cancer
diagnosis and ongoing treatmentswould have increased the stress.
And was that instrumental inyour marriage breakup was

Unknown (11:51):
was a big part of it.
You know, we were young family,we took on too much too soon.
You know, we believe that we gotgifted a 10 year old existing
business. So it was a healthstandard ahead. Around about
10-12 practitioners working fromit subcontracted into it's
everything from chiropractors topsychologist massage therapist,
Reiki naturopath, things likethat, we got gifted it for free

(12:14):
by an absolute angel who was atthe end of her ..she owned the
place and she just wanted topass it on to someone. And we
had a beautiful relationship andshe gave it to us. And so as a
young family and an opportunityto take, here's an existing
business that's all set up,ready to rock and roll and go
for it. So I noticed that on butI was very young, naive

(12:36):
naturopath, I've only beenqualified for a handful of years
and didn't as any naturalistthing in college, you don't get
really get taught any businessskills, you might be two units,
you know, write a business planfor industry have no idea about
and, you know, basic stuff. Andso, but I did know how to work
hard, you know, come from veryhigh worth ethic in my sort of

(12:57):
family. And so I worked hard.
And then when things weren'tworking, I went harder, I did
what I knew I could do and rinseand repeat that a few times.
Start to get very, very stressedwith it all, you know, start to
develop that by you know, itspeak, we had about 18
practitioners in their yoga Hallcafe, a shop that it all put on
plus I was trying to be anaturopath trying to be an agile

(13:20):
bath with all that stress andall the hats. And you know, that
was driving me to get verystressed and I wasn't managing
my emotions well, so I was goingvery internal and sinking myself
into the business as a stresscoping mechanism, which was
disconnecting me from my thenwife. And so it was taken its
toll on a young young marriagewith young kids and all the
pressures of that. And, youknow, just exposed the cracks

(13:43):
that were already in now. Whatand I have choices, you know, on
reflection, but eventually thebrokers unfortunately, the
stress of it was just too hard.
And you know, I was so unwellthat it just fractured. So
unfortunately,

Daniel Baden (13:57):
to top it off, I know that the financial burden
of chronic illness issignificant.

Eddie Enever (14:02):
Yes, yeah. So you're really luckily we had to
practice and so we had that, youknow, that sort of income coming
in, but it wasn't enough withoutmy income of my practice.
Because I couldn't work youcan't work in that state at all.
And it just, it just it justcrippled us unfortunately.

Daniel Baden (14:17):
Stress stress stress.

Eddie Enever (14:18):
It was a big part of it for sure

Daniel Baden (14:21):
And so do you have a family history as well of any
type of cancer?

Eddie Enever (14:25):
No, not really.
Mom had a little melanoma on herhead at one stage that had to be
cut out. I think your mom hadbreast cancer not not a huge
drama. Is that like it's showingup all the way through
cardiovascular is absolutely abigger thing within my paternal
line for sure. A little bit withmum, but not absolutely nothing
in the realms of prostatetesticular. No history of that

(14:46):
at all. Yeah.

Daniel Baden (14:48):
Did you have any trauma to the testes as a young
person? Not No, no. Okay.

Eddie Enever (14:55):
The things I love obviously thought about this a
lot like, why why why did thishappen? Did you know before as a
naturopath I did work inindustries that were pretty
toxic as in chemical exposure.
So I was in the printingindustry for a good 12 years.
And so using a lot of volatilesolvents, which are pretty nasty
compounds linked to manycancers, so these acetate and

(15:16):
acetone tones used in hugeamounts, like literally almost
bathing yourself in almost theinks, obviously, although the
much cleaner probably still hadheaps of goop. Going even
further back, I was raised inNew Zealand. So I grew up in QE
for a country. And so kiwi fruitget highly, highly sprayed to
keep them looking attractive. Soyou want to buy them and I would

(15:37):
be a young 567 year old runningaround the otters were my
playgrounds. And my mom tellingme you know, when it was
spraying season you come inbecause these guys are going up
and down the aisles withspacesuits on pretty much hazmat
suit spraying this, she calledthe Ag department many times and
is this safe, I have a childhere. It's perfectly safe, water

(15:59):
soluble, blah, blah, blah. It'slike, where I was from a place
called the Bay of Islands carrycarry, we had the highest rate
of lymphoma in the whole of NewZealand. So is it connected? Who
knows? Apparently. So I have nodoubt these things played a role
in, you know, setting up amilieu and environment with my
body that's not conducive to theoptimal sort of health of

(16:23):
certain tissues.

Daniel Baden (16:26):
I know that at some point, you had to take
stock of your life, and say, Ijust can't do this anymore, and
you sold your business and youmade big decisions. And the word
that you told me when we chattedsome weeks ago is that you had a
complete reset? Yeah, how didyou get to that point in your

(16:46):
life where you realize that youneeded a reset,

Unknown (16:49):
totally. So cancers got a good way of doing that.
especially when you get it threetimes over, because I tried to
maintain this, this complex showthat I'd created, you know,
part, partly consciously part,you know, just because of
decisions. Maybe the cards thatI was also dealt a little bit as
well. But, you know, I tried tomaintain this through my first

(17:09):
diagnosis, you know, the firstthe second, because, you know, I
didn't want to drop thatbusiness, it was providing a lot
for me, although it was creatinga lot of issues in my life, it
wasn't giving me some validationand some, some good stuff there
some self confidence because oflook what I've created, you
know, sort of thing ego gettinginvolved there. And so I was
very unwilling to drop, drop it,even though I was incredibly

(17:30):
unwell and through, you know,two of those relapses, and
that's when the some people callit a light bulb moment, I call
it more like a fry pan to thehead, cast iron one, I had to
take a step back and discussthat because it kept coming back
and my colleagues had no ideawhat was going on. It's just
like, this is really unusual.
This doesn't happen. Testicularcancer is usually sorted out

(17:51):
first line therapy. So thatfirst dose of carboplatin that I
mentioned, that's usuallyenough, you know, you shouldn't
be getting relapses of this sortof treatment, maybe one but not
not three. They really didn'tunderstand what was going on.
And that was the point where Ihad to like, take a step back
and discuss it, what am Imissing here, I'm doing what I'm
being told to do. I'm trying mybest to support my my

(18:12):
treatments, the best that I canas well. And then it came to me
it's not what I'm doing is theproblems. The way that I'm doing
it is the problem, really, theway that I was doing life was
the problem. And so I had to andthat was that moment was a
sight, right? I've missed thepoint here, I've got to change
the environment that I'm tryingto get well within. I was trying
to force the healing process. IfI look at it now I was trying to

(18:33):
just add more to the treatment.
In more aggressive treatment,more diet, more supplements were
the the path to healing for mewasn't clear. It was fraught
with massive big roadblocks ofcortisol and stress and all the
stuff in the way. And so mymindset had to shift and I had
to look at well, can I create anenvironment that's more

(18:54):
conducive to the outcome that Iwant. And a big part of that
was, well look at the stress inmy life like this isn't working
at all. So that's when the bigdecisions have to come in right?
sell a home sell a business,like get my allostatic load
total stress load down asquickly as possible. And for me,
then going on the internaljourney of can I manage my
stress better inside of myself.
So the way I interface withstress and my emotion because

(19:16):
that was pretty, prettyunhealthy.

Daniel Baden (19:20):
It's quite difficult to achieve this moment
of absolute clarity like you didwhen you're going through the
condition and the chemo andchemo brain, which is a you
know, like a brain fog . So it'squite extraordinary to get to
that point.

Eddie Enever (19:36):
You know, I went from stage one to stage four. So
when I was at my worst I had anine centimeter by eight by
three centimeter tumor in myabdomen. So that's the heretic
lymph node, it was between aortaand vena cava. So really
dangerous spot, big sheet tumor,they call it big, high and wide
and skinny. But I also had acouple of tumors in my chest
couple under my collarbone oneof my neck one model, and so

(19:56):
it's riddled with this stuff.
And so I was stage four and saidThere's nothing like getting
into stage four. And literallyI've, I'm a big guy, you've met
me, I'm six foot seven. Believeit or not, I usually run out
around about 117 kilos. 20kilos. When I was at my worst, I
was 84 kilos. So I looked like Ialways laugh, I look like a very
tall cross between the alertsand Uncle Fester. Like I looked,

(20:18):
I looked rough. Yeah, I wasn'teven light as light and was
very, very unwell. And so that'spretty close to rock bottom.
That's, you know, when thingschange, you'd have to change,
otherwise, nothing changes.

Daniel Baden (20:34):
What was the first thing you did you push the reset
button. What was the firstactivity I guess, for one of a
better word where you thoughtthis is how I'm going to start
looking after myself better.

Eddie Enever (20:46):
Big ones for me and continues to be is balance.
It's probably the biggest lessonthat I learned in getting cancer
was you know, my life was so outof balance, like my work life
balance, my mental health,everything was out of whack. And
it was a really powerful PhD inbalance I always laugh about and
it's still to this day, it'ssomething that I'm very, very

(21:07):
protective over in my life,making sure like my work life
balance, in particular, how muchI push my body? Am I doing five,
six days a week? And you know,answering the phone 24/7? You
know, to all the clients, no, Idon't I put very strong
boundaries into place, which wasincredibly hard for me to do,
because I wasn't good atboundaries, clearly. So a big
part of it was how to have beenmore balance to my life, I can

(21:30):
create that environment that'smore conducive to the outcome
that I want. So that wasprobably the very first thing
like what it looked like backthen was obviously selling the
business and the higher andtrying to create a different
environment.

Daniel Baden (21:42):
So did you take on a life coach? Or did you do a
course? Or is it just somethingthat came to you,

Eddie Enever (21:48):
a lot of it came to me through my own sort of
exploration, but it was verydeep in the personal development
world, in that sort of stage ofmy life and cancer just sort of
escalate that as well. So it'svery much looking at human
behavior with the likes of JohnF de martini, who's a very
famous author and sort oflecturer around the world. And
early in my cancer journeyactually went up to the call of
foundation. So in GORLA, amazingman who has to call a

(22:11):
foundation, which unfortunatelyhad to shut down and they were
running retreats back then so Iwent over East at that stage, we
lost everything I had literallyno money. Beautiful, beautiful
angel friend of mine paid for meto go over to the gold retreat,
which was called the life andliving retreat. 10 days in the
Yarra Valley, their beautifulspot purpose built just for this
purpose is to get people there's24 of us, they're all at

(22:32):
different stages of their cancerjourney. And the beautiful polar
Maya Betson who are running allthe retreats guide you over 10
days just peeling the layers ofgoing deeper and deeper into
yourself into emotions intoobviously diet and food as
medicine and they are very, verybig on stress management because
it played such a huge role inIan's health and the very strong

(22:54):
meditation. So I was alreadymeditating before then. But this
just took meditation, myunderstanding how important and
powerful it actually is to awhole nother level. So that was
a very, very important retreatfor me because it helped me
reframe what was going on in inmy body and my nervous system

(23:14):
with my stress my emotions, andhelped me to change tact to
start to address that internaljourney in a different way. So
that was super important.

Daniel Baden (23:24):
One of the things I've noticed from speaking to a
number of people that have gotthrough their cancer was before
their diagnosis, they had aninability perhaps to accept love
or to feel self worth. And asthey grew as individuals, they
had to learn how to accept loveand accept compliments and

(23:45):
accept that they are worthypeople. How do you look at
yourself? In view of all ofthat?

Unknown (23:51):
Yeah absolutely. 100% Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
And I've counseled hundreds ofcancer patients now since
becoming a well I've worked alot with oncology patients and I
get to talk to them reallydeeply about the stuff and they
tick the boxes. So many times 85to 90% of patients that come in
tick all those boxes as well.
All for different reasons. Likefor me, as I sort of alluded to

(24:13):
with my business, I was gettinga lot from my business, I was
getting that love andappreciation out of my business
that I wasn't perceiving I wasgetting in my marriage and from
family members and so my abilityto receive love was really poor.
Honestly, my trust and love hadbeen broken from early age. And
so it was really hard for me toreceive that. So it has been one

(24:35):
of the biggest and continues tobe one of the biggest journeys
for me is to reconnect a love ofmy trust in it and to be able to
receive it purely be able toreceive it without agenda. So
absolutely, you know, this isthis stuff. You know, you've
probably explored this this hasbeen studied for decades in
psycho oncology, the psychologyof a cancer patient this so

(24:56):
called C type personality orbehavior. We'll trade cancer
prone personality type. And youknow, they, for the most part
cannot receive love. Well,they've been givers of love
abundance, but don't receiveoverly well. And also the other
hallmark is repression ofemotion, which is absolutely
what I was doing. I wasn'texpressing my emotions
healthily, because I'd learnedfrom a really early age, it

(25:19):
wasn't safe to express motions,and I wasn't comfortable with my
emotional intelligence to beable to express. So, you know,
having to learn that has beenanother really big journey for
me, but it plays a huge part inthe healing process, you know,
to be able to receive help, toreceive somebody wants to buy a
ticket to the koala foundation,you reckon that was easy? Hell
no. Yeah, it's a huge part ofthe cancer puzzle. It's not just

(25:43):
about the physical treatments,it's this other aspect as well
as psychological aspect, whichis equally as powerful.

Daniel Baden (25:51):
I guess that's quite a challenge in some
cultural environmentenvironments. And Australia is
one of the cultural environmentswhere men don't speak about
their emotions, and men have tobe tough and don't cry. And
yeah, and I'll talk about stuffso that

Eddie Enever (26:05):
I think the tides are changing a little bit with
the new generation, butcertainly for the couple of
generations, you know, the gentwo Gen X's and you know, the
and older it is it's seen asalmost a sign of weakness, you
know, toughen up, don't cry,Boys Don't Cry, get on with it,
you know, which is essentiallythe same swallow it down,
repress that emotion, get home,whether it's a work very well,

(26:28):
clearly doesn't work very wellwith the mental health issues we
have in Australia, and also,chronic disease epidemic, but
it's this whole mind bodymedicine is plays part of that.
So you know, I really encouragepeople that are going through
cancer, there is that journey togo as well, which I considered
that but the healing journey,you know, there's a difference
between that curative pathtrying to go for cure and new
treatments for the lumps and thebumps. But there's also this

(26:51):
healing journey, which is morewhat is this disease mean, in
the context of your life? Whichwhen you're met with your
mortality, you start to askthose questions.

Daniel Baden (26:59):
Yeah, I get that.
So just changing the topicslightly. At some point, you
went to the Philippines to seeksome hyperthermia therapy did?
Yes. And I remember going tosome hypothermia conferences a
long, long time ago. But whatwas your experience of it?

Eddie Enever (27:16):
Hyperthermia saved my life. I can't say it was the
only thing that absolutelywasn't the only thing. There was
a few things that really are thereason why I'm still here today.
One was that stress reductionthat I talked about. The second
one was hyperthermia. The thirdone was modern oncology. We got
there in the end with the withthe drugs, but I don't think if

(27:37):
I isolated each any of thosesort of aspects out that either
one of those was going to cureme in isolation, it was that
combination that was importantfor me. And certainly for me
hyperthermia, I went over to thePhilippines for eight weeks. So
hyperthermia is where we raisethe body temperature up either
the whole body systemichypothermia or like a localized
hyperthermia. So you can justtarget the tumor and try to bake

(28:00):
it essentially. So I think themagic number in hyperthermia is
42.1 degrees Celsius. If you geta tumor to that site, that that
temperature they don't do wellthey don't dissipate heat so
they can basically spontaneouslyapoptosis or die. So I went over
to the Philippines for eightweeks of systemic and localized
hypothermia really brutaltreatment in the little old

(28:21):
provinces of the Philippines.
You know, there's me big old sixfoot seven Gandalf gray walking
through the streets with fourfoot Filipinos looking at it be
like What the hell is this, thiswalk to the supermarket?
Beautiful People beautifulculture, so loving, but hard
work hard work in the provinces.
But you know, systemichypothermia to take your oral
temperature up to 40 degreesCelsius and try to maintain that

(28:44):
for 30 to 60 minutes isn't easy.

Daniel Baden (28:46):
So what's the mechanics of that? How do they
do that?

Eddie Enever (28:48):
Essentially, it's a hyperthermia machine. It looks
like a metal like a sauna, adome, sauna or almost set, you
might lie in your heads pokingout, you can keep your face nice
and cool with a fan and coldflannel. But essentially the
hypothermia machine is heatingthe body up and so constantly
monitoring oral temperature towatch it rise up and it can take

(29:09):
good 20 odd minutes to get tohigh 39 to 40 which is a
steaming fever. It's notpleasant at all, and then trying
to maintain yourself there. Forlike I said anywhere between 30
to 60 minutes, which is gruelinglucky, you're really altered
state of consciousness, you'renot feeling good at all. So I
was doing that three times aweek and then filling in all the
gaps with localized hypothermia.
So my intention was I'll go overthere. I'm going to come back

(29:33):
here to free Anna so I went overthere for eight weeks did this
and by the end of it I was notfeeling good at all. So that
tumor in my abdomen so insteadof all my cancer disappeared, it
actually tripled in size. So Iwas worried that it was pushing
my ballot against my abdominalwall. It was in a lot of pain, a
lot of back flank pain from thatand I was getting weaker and
losing weight and I was was notin a good state at all. So I

(29:55):
came back to Australia and thatWhen I sat in front of my
oncologist, he said, Matt, wegot to do something because he
was fantastic. He understood me,there was a young guy just like
me kids, similar sort of age, heunderstood what I did for a
profession. And he understoodthat I needed to go and do this
stuff for me. So he's verysupportive, which is a blessing
because not all I can do. And soI came back and said, Listen,

(30:18):
man, we got to move on this, wegot to boogie had my last sort
of treatment, which is anotherstory about why we chose that
that treatment we might get to.
But it was at that stage that itjust melted away, like it
disappeared so quickly, like heto this day still can't explain
can't understand as to what wason the ground, it's just

(30:38):
disappearing at a rate of knots.
And that was eight years ago,that it disappeared and never
returned. And so I know thathyperthermia hyper sensitized
the tumors because that's whatthe research also shows us. If
it doesn't kill, it can alsoreally sensitize the cancer
massively. And that's certainlywhat it seemed to do to these
more aggressive pro oxidant typetreatments like chemotherapy

(30:58):
that I was on.

Daniel Baden (31:00):
So what was the final therapy that the
oncologist put you on?

Eddie Enever (31:04):
Well, when I was at that, that last relapse, they
literally didn't know what todo. They said yes, and there's
not enough people worldwide thatget into this state. So we don't
have enough data to know what todo next. We've got a couple of
ideas here, you know, based onwhat limited research we have,
we've got this regime a andwe've got this one B. We didn't

(31:24):
know what to do. And then theybasically said to me, what do
you want to do? And I sort oflooked at my going what you want
me to eeny, meeny, miny, moe it.
But I had actually earlier inthe journey, I'd actually done
some sensitivity testing on mycancer. So I sent my circulating
tumor cells overseas, to Greeceto get tested against all the
chemo therapies on the marketand all the oncology drugs to

(31:45):
see what is my cancer mostsensitive to? Now, I did that
really early in the piece, butunfortunately, was Australian on
college, then I'm open to thesechemo sensitivity tests. Not
yet, at least. So he said it'snice information, but I can't
act on that. And so when I gotpresented with that ARB option,
I said, Well, hey, shall we havea look at these tests that I

(32:05):
did, and let's, let's maybe letthat make the decision for us.
And it clearly showed thatchemotherapy regime B was the
right choice as compared to theother one. And so we ran with
that. So that's when I say, youknow, modern oncology and the
right, choice for me was areally important part as well, I
don't know if I had done that,by itself that would have

(32:25):
cleared the cancer, I think, Ifeel I know that the hypothermia
played a massive role in helpingthose drugs to work more
efficaciously. And then also, myenvironment by that stage had
changed very drastically, theway that I was interacting with
my journey and my own mindsetand internal environment was was
different as well. So the wholeenvironment for healing was was
quite different. And I think,for me, that was the combination

(32:47):
that worked for me.

Daniel Baden (32:50):
And at the same time, were you using any other
nutritional supplements at all?

Eddie Enever (32:54):
Yeah, I was using, you know, lots of things like
anti inflammatories and someimmune stimulation to drive
racks, you know, fantasticproduct. What else was I using,
I was doing obviously try mybest with different sorts of
dietary regimes, but the throwof chemo was who was pretty
tough, pretty tough, especiallywhen there wasn't even a lot
anyway, that's why I dropped somuch weight. So there was a few

(33:14):
things I was I was using, but Iwasn't going to full on I just
wasn't, wasn't the right statefor doing that, like I was
really quite debilitated. Soit's very hard.

Daniel Baden (33:24):
Did you develop any sort of chemo resistance
throughout the journey as well.

Unknown (33:28):
yeah, the relapses I think, were the chemo
resistance. You know, by theend, I was classified as chemo
resistant. I think, because I'vehad so many unsuccessful lines
of treatment, the weaker stuffhad been cleared up. And maybe
these cancer like stem cellsleft behind these ones that are
more robust, and more chemoresistant, I think I was just
working on growing my populationof those with each relapse, it

(33:50):
was clear that the weaker stuffleaving behind the more strong
STEM like cells, and then gothrough my next letter
treatment, cleaning up theweaker ones of those or any
other sort of just normalcancerous tumor cells, and then
leaving the mode robust, robustand robust. And I think, by that
third relapse, the populationwithin me was just so
aggressive, very fast, growingand very resistant to treatment

(34:13):
that it was going to take andabove and beyond effort to get
rid of those ones.

Daniel Baden (34:17):
I know from patients I've had as well, and
friends that have had cancer.
There's this continual fear ofthe cancer returning at some
point. Yeah. How did you dealwith that? Or how do you deal
with that?

Unknown (34:30):
Yeah, so canxiety is a very real thing I call it
cancanxiety. You know, everycancer patient knows that
intimately. It's that fear whena lymph node pops up under your
armpit or in your neck, and itmight just be because you've got
a sick kid in the house, but themind doesn't know that in the
mind just goes to that worstcase scenario. She had his back

(34:52):
then then you get all thatemotional trigger of what it was
like to hear those words and forme three times over, sorry, it's
back to Alright back in how thatmakes you feel. And so it can be
really debilitating for people.
Luckily for me, I've had a verystrong mind through most of the
journey, I am not an anxioustype person anyway. So I think
one it's part of just how I'm mymum nervous system, my mind is

(35:15):
made up but also I have done alot of meditation, a lot of
nervous system regulation stuffbecause it's been such an
important part of the journey. Ithink I've got quite a good
skill set on handling my nervoussystem and if there are any sort
of catastrophizing thoughts, Idon't hang around a lot for me
personally. So that's that'sreally helped me a lot. But I'd
be lying if I said that ithasn't been there a while many,

(35:36):
many, many times. Now. Even whenyou're waiting for them
apologist appointment, andyou're in the waiting room, it's
there. And then they come outand then you look at him and
they won't make eye contact.
You're like, oh, no, here it isas bad. And then he got in this
has happened to me personally,and then I'm absolutely freaking
out because he's won't make eyecontact. He's not smiling, and
he's not looking at me tooeasily would sit down now.

(35:57):
Everything's fine. Everything'sgreat. It's a roller coaster
mate. And understand. So youknow, I've, I think mindset
plays a really big role,obviously, your skill set around
managing your nervous system,but also mindset in relationship
to cancer. For me very early inthe piece I, because I was in
that personal development worldalready. I really went into my

(36:20):
cat and I was looking at itlike, well, first of all that
the mindset was, whatever ittakes, whatever I need to do,
I've got a, you know, two and ahalf year old kid and a pregnant
wife, bring it anything, I willdo whatever I need to do. So you
know, failure wasn't an option.
There was that aspect of it. Andthen I went into cancer. And for
me where I was at that stage is,how is this going to be the best
thing in my life? How's thisgoing to redefine my life? I

(36:43):
asked that question actually,really early in the piece. And I
did this exercise, which is aJohn F de Martini exercise where
you count your blessings, how'sthis going to be the biggest
blessing in my life? Physically,mentally, emotionally, socially,
spiritually, financially, mycareer and my relationships? And
so I spent a few days reallydelving into that question or

(37:03):
writing all my answers down inin two days, it was only about
four hours. And over those twodays, I wrote over 800 different
benefits for blessings for it.
And that was really the reasonwhy I mentioned it was it was
really important for my mindsettowards it was like, I'd pulled
that apart and picked it apartand seen so much benefit in it
in such a hard thing to be metwith. And I found so much

(37:24):
benefit and it was almost lookedat cancels, I happen to be mad
at you. For me, it's very woowooI just knew this was here for a
reason. And I need to learn fromthat. And for me, it just helped
with my mindset, and itcontinues to help with the
Kansas City side of thingsbecause the reality is you don't
know what tomorrow holds. It'dbe really dark rediagnosis
tomorrow, and I could have nosenescence cells, you know,

(37:46):
hibernating cells with me andand tomorrow, they wake up for
whatever reason, yeah, mighthave a big traumatic event,
someone might die. And that'senough stress. Just to spark
things up. Again, that's areality. I think through my
journey and getting so close tochecking out I feel my
relationship to death is quite ahealthy one, quite a balanced
one. I'm not not fearful of itat all. I don't want to go

(38:08):
because I've got kids I don'twant to see grow up. I don't
want to be that annoyinggrandfather that comes over and
has all the things. But I thinkmy relationship to life and
death is quite healthy. So ithelps me not get too debilitated
by these thoughts of shit. If itcomes back, this could be
endgame.

Daniel Baden (38:26):
I noticed on your website when I had a brief look,
that you also identify what youdo as a cancer coach, which I
think is actually some niceterminology. And you know, if
you're talking to a cancerpatient, what are the two or
three most critical points thatyou tried to get over in the
consultation? Is it themanagement of the chemo? Or is

(38:48):
it more the emotion deep diveinto the emotional aspects of
it? Or how did they handledthemselves you know, with their
families because I know thatfrom patients that a lot of fear
is saying what if I'm not aroundfor my family and all that sort
of stuff?

Eddie Enever (39:04):
I think you know, for me as a practitioner now
because I work so much withoncology patients is meeting
that person where they're at youknow, some people are ready to
go What does this mean in thecontext of my life you know,
where my benefit to some peoplethat's the last thing they want
to hear? No, they are deep infear and deep in the anxiety and
the stress of the moment and soit's really been compassionate
and sensitive to that anddiscount on you can understand
that quite quickly when you meetsomeone where they're at with it

(39:26):
and for me the priority isalways you know, we've got a
physical nature of this diseasein its condition can be fatal if
not acted upon quickly. So forme, the priority is always get
the person physically theirphysical treatment or physical
aspect of this condition. Solidfirst get this thing stable,
hopefully regressing, withwhatever regime dietary

(39:48):
supplemental medicine, oncology,blend, integrative is My general
advice together and get thatsolid and then you know, at some
point that person may be readyto go Oh, what is this Lean in
the broader context. So youknow, it's trick this either
this for me what I believe isthe signs and symptoms of
cancer, the lumps and the bumps,let's get that stable first and

(40:08):
then let's look at theenvironment. Now, is this
environment conducive to theoutcome you desire? What can we
change within this environment?
Or what can we change thepatient's relationship to this
thing that may be causing theproblem? Can we change
relationship to if we can'tchange it, let's say career or
financial state, or a failingmarriage, like we may not be
able to fix that straight away,but that person's relationship

(40:30):
can change very quickly. So wecan work at that level when that
person is ready for that. Andthat's usually once a stable in
their protocol, physicalprotocol. And then it's just how
deep does someone want to go?
Some people don't. And that'sfine, you know, suits their
life, they can do whatever youwant. And I'm there to know, I
don't force that agenda onanyone. It's just where this
where is this person out? Howcan I best serve this? Sometimes

(40:52):
it's just symptom management,you know, side effect
management, because let's faceit, the side effects of chemo
are pretty rough, saying, Can Ijust make this on quality
journey for this next fivecycles of chemo? smoother for
them? Yeah, then you got somepeople that go, what does this
mean spiritually and this andthat, that's, that's cool, too.
That's where they're at? Yeah.
So

Daniel Baden (41:11):
I understand, I noticed, you put a statement on
your website as well, whichindicates that many of the
patients education around chemocould probably be embellished a
little bit. One study, you putup this at 69% of patients with
lung cancer, and 81%, withcolorectal cancer, didn't

(41:32):
understand that the chemo wasnot likely to eliminate their
tumors. Yeah. And that'scontrary to what they think he
was going to do. Totally. So Ifind that quite interesting. And
I guess a big part of your jobis education around those sorts
of things. However, you alsohave a free ebook, which is

(41:52):
wonderful and very kind of you.
And it's called your oncologistis not your enemy. Interesting
title, thank you. But to me,that was a bit of a, the stock
art is certainly not the enemy.
But it kind of with the lack ofeducation that the patient has,
there seems to be this big gapin what the oncologist does, and

(42:14):
what the, what the patientunderstands. Yeah. What can we
do to improve that?

Eddie Enever (42:19):
Well, I think it's it's awareness, you know, to
understanding you know, what,this person so for a patient to
become fully informed, you know,and what does cure mean? No,
sometimes, some most oncologistsare very, very hesitant to use
that C word cured, that whenthey talk about success,
sometimes success to them justmeans five year survival, five

(42:40):
years of life. Now, I think alittle patient doesn't think in
five year increments of lifethey want, am I going to be
cured for the rest of my life towatch my kids grow up or not? So
I think, quite often where itgoes wrong with the
communication is that thatlittle old patient doesn't
understand that's what we'vebeen talked about, what's your
five year survival rate? fivemore years, not, you're going to

(43:03):
see your kids grow up. So Ithink that's so important for
people to understand. So whenthey communicate to them
college, they can talk in theright terminology, the right
language. So are we talkingabout absolute cure here? Or are
we talking about like a relativecure here, relative risk, which
is, can sound really good withthe numbers that get thrown at
you yet? When you look at thebigger perspective? Oh, but it's

(43:23):
actually not that flush. And ifsome for that that study that
you mentioned there, you know,for 80%, eight out of 10
colorectal cancer patients thatwere under the illusion that
chemo was going to be curativeto them. Can you imagine that
day when they were finally toldno, this was never gonna kill
you. If they'd known thatearlier. Do you think maybe
there might have gone above andbeyond to try create a better

(43:44):
statistic, whether that'schanging their life exercising
more, or utilizing integrativeoncology? I think most people
would if they saw the limitationof it. So I think for me, I have
these conversations with mypatients when they come in, you
know, very early when that whenthey need it, is to really
understand the scope of what theresult can be in is, is that

(44:05):
good enough for you is averageJoe results good enough for you
to want to do above average Joe,to become the outlier, so to
speak, creating your ownstatistics and these
extraordinary outcomes. Theywill take effort, big effort,
massive effort, but totallypossible to get people on the
right page at what's possible. Ithink it's really, really
important.

Daniel Baden (44:24):
You were fortunate that you had an oncologist that
was happy to work with you. Butjust from my experience
throughout the profession formany years, I know that there's
a lot of oncologists that reallystruggle with natural medicine,
how do you bring thatconversation with the oncologist
or with the patient or both?

Eddie Enever (44:43):
Yeah, yeah, listen, um, my experience in it
may be different on the EastCoast. I'm in Perth and so we
don't have a lot of oncologiststhat are open minded to this.
There's a couple that are thatare good and they are the most
popular one in particular themost popular in Perth and he is
very supportive of patientsdoing what they need to do as

(45:03):
long as he you inform him whatyou're doing. So he can, you
know, make sure it's okay to dobut I find the people that work
with someone like that they havesuch a different journey much
less stressful for them, but forfor the patient, I let them know
that listen, this probably won'tgo down overly well with the
pharmacist who might reviewwhatever you want to take, or

(45:25):
your oncologist for me know whatI find cancer patients need to
do in their life, but also thecancer journey is to get agency
over their journey again, manycancer patients, you know, and
have, again, counseled hundredsthey can feel like sometimes
I've left the agency over theirlife. And so this cancer journey
is almost a beautiful way forthem to take some agency over

(45:46):
their journey. And so alwaystalk about you are driving this
bus back to health. Who do youwant on this path? Obviously,
you want your oncologist onthere, do you want to naturopath
nutritionist on there might be aChinese medicine practitioner,
or a psychologist, maybe somefamily friends close confidants,
things like that. But they'vegot to remember that they are
driving, it's their life, theycan do whatever the hell they

(46:08):
want. As long as they're gettingthe right information from
trusted practitioners that areon their team, let them do their
job and what their zone theirzone of genius is. But you're
the one that's got to run withthis. And so to sort of talk in
those terms with people, just toget them on board them drive in
it. So they are setting therules for this. It's not about
making silly, silly decisionshere or blase decisions is a

(46:29):
fully informed evidence baseddecisions. But there is so much
more that you can do if you'rewanting to create your own
statistics, which when cancerespecially metastatic cancer,
you absolutely have to do. Yeah,

Daniel Baden (46:40):
that is a beautiful analogy, because the
one thing I know from a lot ofpatients with their diagnosis,
and when they first present withtheir diagnosis to family and
friends, everybody wants to helpthem. So everybody with good
heart says I know this doctor, Iknow the surgeon, I heard this
guy was the best guy. And thenyou have a myriad of doctors and
nurses. And you've probably endup with 50 opinions by the end

(47:03):
of the week.

Eddie Enever (47:03):
totally confused, analysis paralysis.

Daniel Baden (47:10):
So I really like your bus driver analogy that
that really works.

Eddie Enever (47:14):
I think the I think the risk is that, you
know, when you obviously you metwith Mr. C word, you know, to
cancer, you know, it's got somuch emotion around that word,
you know, you go into panicstations in the shot, right? Do
everything, throw everything atit, and hopefully something
sticks. I call it the shotgunapproach. I don't believe it's a
wise approach. Now, because itcan be a very confused approach,
especially if you're starting toutilize medicines and

(47:36):
supplements and different thingsin chemotherapies, you could
have this confused chemistry andactually causing some
interactions that might bedecreasing the efficacy of your
treatment, even though you thinkyou're doing the right thing I'm
putting more effort in. And Ithink it's not about doing more
sometimes it's actually aboutjust doing a smaller amount of
things. But doing them reallywell. You know, don't be that
that. What is it that jack ofall trades master and none that

(47:59):
saying, you know, just do it asyou select things that you
understand, or your practitionerunderstand what you're doing the
mechanism of action using theright doses, which is most
important to and it forms aframework that is synergistic
with whatever your maintreatment is, which is for the
vast majority of people, it'smodern oncology to chemotherapy,

(48:19):
or medical oncology, plus orminus a surgery radiation.

Daniel Baden (48:23):
And I think the most important word, you know,
we've mentioned the last fewminutes. So you mentioned it was
trust. And I think it's soimportant for the patient to
allow themselves to take amoment to really find the
practitioners that they resonatewith, and the people they
resonate with and trust thatdecision. And trust for those
people. I just think that's socritical.

Eddie Enever (48:44):
For sure. Because if they're trying to self manage
and and now they're trying tomanage their their life, as well
as a cancer diagnosis and dotheir research and staying up
until midnight now on Dr.
Google, they're not sleeping nowand their self care is probably
going to suffer. So it's justlike you find your team. As long
as you trust them, you know thatthey know what they're doing.
And you're comfortable to placeyour trust in them, let them do
what they need to do here. Youfocus on being new each day and

(49:06):
in actually implementing thesechanges or these medicines or
supplements or whatever it is inyour self care in just take some
pressure off that person beingsolely responsible for life and
death to a lot of pressure.
Yeah,

Daniel Baden (49:20):
mate. I'm going to give you a time machine. You got
to go back and visit 20 year oldEddie. Okay, what are you going
to tell him?

Unknown (49:28):
That's a great question. What would I tell him?
I would probably advise him tostart his journey of delving
into love and his relationshipto love earlier. Not not having
to have these harsh lessons toforce him to learn. I would

(49:49):
gently nudge him in thedirection of start looking down
these wormholes starting tounderstand your trust and love
relationship to love. Becauseout of all that came all the
stress all the stuff that It wassort of talked about was almost
like the, the side effect of allthat stuff. So I think I nudged
him in that direction.

Daniel Baden (50:06):
Good nudge. Edie, you are amazing. And thank you
so much. I know that you providea number of resources, including
a free ebook. Could you talk towhat people can do to help
themselves what resources youoffer? or and or how people can
find you? Yeah.

Eddie Enever (50:22):
So, all over the socials, I'll go to my website,
just Eddie another.com Lots ofstuff on there. If you if you
aren't doing the Instagramthing, you can go to the link in
my bio and my Instagram page,which is just at Inova Sally
wine me and there's lots of freeresources in there, just click
on them lots of ebooks onintegrative oncology, or that
one that you mentioned, youroncologist isn't your enemy to

(50:44):
help you to understand how tocommunicate really effectively.
To your oncologist, I've got acancer support program for
people that want an online videobased program. It's just me
talking to you through alldifferent stages and elements
and different levels of thecancer journey and takes you
through and upskilled you onyour knowledge, but also skill

(51:05):
set around breathing to breathwork meditation, we deep dive
into trauma and this cancerprone personality type that we
touched on. And really, it'sjust about giving you the
knowledge and skills to be to beable to take agency over this
journey. I'm really big on that.
And that's why I created thisprogram. It's you know, over 10
hours of video, footage of metalking and heaps of resources
and free meditations and allsorts of things. That's really

(51:28):
everything that I've got to giveon one program. But there's lots
of free stuff as well. You canget on my website, Instagram
page and Facebook as well. Lotsof lots of resources if you want
them. Okay, so you can alwaysjust reach out as well. I do do
30 minute free calls where wecan just chat and so I can
understand where you're at andmaybe ways that I can help you

(51:49):
and it's no obligation. 30minutes, you can book there's
buttons all over my websitewhere you can book a little free
session and we can just have achat.

Daniel Baden (51:58):
Thats crazy generous well done.
Eddieenever.com And that's Eddiewith IE. Eddie is my what a
pleasure. It has been for me andthank you so much. I'm so
grateful. It's been so nice toreconnect with you after 15/20
yearsWe have not changed what are you
talking about ?

Eddie Enever (52:18):
I'm getting shorter. I think that's supposed
to happen. But no, thank you forhaving me on. It's it's really
important conversations. I lovewhat you're doing. It's a great
podcast, and just this wholetheme of what you do is amazing.

Daniel Baden (52:31):
Great, thanks.
Okay, take care. Thank you.