October 3, 2023 • 40 mins
All feedback and questions welcome
Eat less and exercise more sounds like an obvious weight loss plan. For many it just doesn't work. There are so many other considerations to account for such as body type, individual microbiome, reactive foods and stress hormones. Kira Sutherland together with her client Tash discuss what did make a big difference in sustainable weight loss.
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Episode Transcript
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Daniel Baden (00:16):
Today we have the very well known Kira Sutherland,
who's one of the most gorgeousand successful practitioners in
Australia. And her client, Tash.
Hello to both of you. Hello,hey, weight loss is a big issue
for a lot of Australians. Weknow that from 1995 to 2018 in
one particular study, men hadgained an average of around
(00:39):
about 6%, taking their weightfrom around 82 kilos to 87
kilos. And women on average 8%increase taking their average
weight from 67 to 72 kilos,leaving around about two thirds
of the Australian populationeither recognized as obese or
overweight, for those peoplethat do want to lose a few
(01:00):
kilos, they can struggle. Andthe struggle is is quite real. I
know that you can go to someprofessionals who will just say
eat less and exercise more. Butfor a lot of people, that just
doesn't work. It doesn't. Itdoesn't for a lot of reasons.
And they can be as we'relearning through scientific
literature, it can be associatedto a person's microbiome, or the
(01:23):
little bugs that live in yourgut. It can be associated to the
food types, the type of foodthat you're eating, may not
particularly suit you as anindividual. And there are also
drugs out there, like the oralcontraceptive pill as one
example, which will encourageweight gain. So it doesn't
matter how much you eat less, orhow much you exercise. It's not
(01:46):
going to help as much as youhope it would. Kira, does that
sound right to you?
Kira Sutherland (01:53):
That's about right to me. Yeah. Such a hard
such a hard topic.
Daniel Baden (01:57):
Yeah. Is there anything that you think I missed
in that little list of thingsthat can affect people's weight,
ability to lose weight?
Kira Sutherland (02:05):
I think hormones would be my next one to
add, no matter your sex, nomatter your gender hormones get
in the way, whether they be sexhormones, or stress hormones,
our body really struggles.
Daniel Baden (02:19):
Oh, yeah. Look, I know that when people sometimes
stop working or take a breakfrom work or long holiday, they
can lose weight. So I guess thatis adding to the story there
that the stress hormones,through cortisol will have some
sort of significant impact onweight gain.
Kira Sutherland (02:35):
Yeah, absolutely. As well as body
type. I really look. And Tashaand I did this, eventually, we
really looked at what was heractual body type, and which, you
know, how different body typesdo better with certain styles of
eating or certain timing ofeating, and we put that into
(02:55):
play. I'm halfway through yourjourney, right? We didn't kind
of start off with that. But Ialluded to it from memory. You
know, remember?
Tash (03:05):
I kind of started that way. Because when I came to you,
I was I've tried so many thingsyou were like, Yeah, so I hit
you with the hard stuff waslike, Give me everything you
Kira Sutherland (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, we did. We talked about any got?
type, but I didn't really Ithink once we hit a plateau, I
went into another level of bodytype and what I thought we
needed to do, but yeah, wedefinitely stepped into
different things. But yes, Ireread my original notes. Keep
it easy in the first go.
Daniel Baden (03:39):
I'd like to get back onto body type sometime
this evening. Because it'sthat's really interesting. Tash
tell us about you. I know you're38, I'm sorry. Should I not give
that away?
Kira Sutherland (03:52):
You look like you're 22
Daniel Baden (03:59):
I know that you've had a really long struggle with
trying to lose weight. Since youwere quite a young girl. What
was the story?
Unknown (04:07):
Oh wow. Um, I mean, I've always been a bigger kid. I
Tash (04:10):
When you were like five or six years old, you identify to
was you know, growing up, wespoke about you know, God love
my mom and dad. They dideverything they put us into
every sport. We were veryhealthy family. But um, you
know, even I mentioned you know,even at five my mom was like,
Okay, we took me a full creammilk and put me on like white
milk and, and just tried all thetricks I was on. You know, we
(04:34):
did Weight Watchers, we didlight and easy. I took you know,
everything that said diet on it.
You know, back in the day, thisis the 90s everything was in the
diet brand. And we dideverything that we thought was
the right thing. And I triedeverything. And up until I met
here I was I tried every whichway to lose weight. And I could
(04:54):
lose weight. I struggled but itwould come off i And then it
would all come back on. I'vealways been a trainer, I've
always played a lot of sport.
And I just struggled with myweight all ways. I'm also very
hard on myself. So you know, Iwasn't that person to be like,
(05:15):
Oh, well, that's just my bodytype. That's who I am. I just, I
wouldn't I wouldn't settle forthat I always wanted to be the
healthiest version of myself, Icould be
yourself that you felt you'reoverweight, or carrying too much
weight. Is that something thatyou came to yourself? Or was
(05:35):
there pressure from peoplearound you?
Not so much? I think just beingso health conscious. And my
parents were also very healthconscious, we were always so you
know, that was kind of thetrends wasn't so much that at
five years old, I was like, Ifelt like a fat kid. And when I
looked at myself, I reallywasn't, but it was just trying
(05:56):
to be the health, you know, thathealthy kind of, and you know, I
was a little bit bigger than therest of the five year olds that
you stand next to so I'd say,you know, more of a comparison
and looking at me compared toeverybody else I was, you know,
bigger. So what can we do tohelp her but I was I was very
bullied. In Ear six, I was movedout, I was called a fat cow. And
(06:21):
when I look back at photos of meand your six, I'm like, there
was nothing wrong with me. Therewas nothing wrong with me. But I
went through that was horriblecurrent 1011 year old little
girl. And so again, that youknow that that's in your mind,
and you go through that. So youdeal with it the way that that
you think is is the right way togo. And then my mom and dad
(06:43):
supported me in the best waythey they knew how and what the
trends and what what it was, youknow what it was in the 90s.
Early in early 90s, mid 90s, youknow, and I did I think I went
on Weight Watchers in the six toand not because of that, just
because, you know, I was alwaystrying to do better and be as
healthy as I could and, and thatwas just kind of our answers,
(07:06):
really. But yeah, I did. I wentthrough through a lot.
Daniel Baden (07:10):
And how was your overall health?
Unknown (07:12):
Well I was always very healthy, my immune system, I was
a sicker kid. I think, you know,I was I had glandular fever. In
year three? I think I was like,nine yeah, young. And then I had
I caught hepatitis Hepatitis A.
We always went to Foster forChristmas holidays, and it was
(07:32):
in the water in the seafood upthere. So of course every person
that went there never got it,but I did. So I was that was in
the seventh 1997. But I found myhealth generally my immune
system since I started my job asa childcare teacher. I don't get
anything anymore. It may alsohelp them eating really well
(07:53):
when I you know, I take care ofmyself. But nowadays, I barely
get sick touch wood. But yeah, Iwas yeah, my immune system was
not as was kind of big catcheverything that was going
around. But
Daniel Baden (08:12):
so I'm guessing that until you went to see Kira,
you'd gone through it a fewdifferent diets or programs or
processes. You mentioned WeightWatchers when you were younger.
What other things did you try?
Unknown (08:25):
I had done a lot. I did the shakes. The silly ones you
buy in Priceline. God, I'venever been sicker I when I was
on those. My God had tonsillitisevery two weeks. It was bad.
Never again. But you know, yousee them you're like, Okay, I'll
try that. And yeah, like, don'tget me wrong, I lost weight on
(08:46):
them. But it's just not theright way to go. I also saw a
which worked for me, and theywere really, really supportive.
And that's how I found Kira. Butfriends of mine are in a
supplement store at West Ryde.
And they she has Mel had doneKira's course. So she put me on,
you know, put me on the dietgave me you know, recipes and
all sorts of things. And theyput me on a training program as
(09:10):
well. And, look, I lost about 17kilos with them. And it was
great. And they were so helpful.
But it was kind of like alltheir tricks also weren't
working eventually. And thingsjust stopped. You know, I
stopped losing marks coming backon and I was still trying and
training really hard and eatingproperly and just what
(09:32):
everything that she had learnedwasn't enough. So then they
referred me to Kira. Becausethey're like, You need a bit
more go to the go to the best weknow so they referred me to Kira
Daniel Baden (09:43):
Yeah, great. And before you got to Kira, did you
also try any medical drugs orpharmaceutical agents or go to
any doctors for any of this?
Unknown (09:54):
No, I was very anxious to ever go to a doctor. I didn't
like their judgment. They theywere, I've had an experience
with a doctor once that, youknow, I went in for my
tonsillitis or whatever I had.
And straightaway just asked me,How much do you weigh? And I
said, Well, I'm not here todiscuss my weight. I'm here to
(10:15):
discuss, you know, I'm feelingsick. And he just just generally
looked to me and said, you know,probably lose a little bit of
weight. And I was like, reallytaken aback and as a really
anxious person, I do suffer withanxiety. I, I'm still to this
day, I still get anxious just togo to the doctor, because I feel
like they just looked at me andjudged me on my, what I looked
(10:39):
for, and ashamed that I was anunhealthy person. So I still
really, really struggle going toa doctor. So I would never have
gone to them to discuss myweight ever. I still I still
don't like going. Oh, no, Idon't have to. But ya know, so
No, I never went on anything,given some other doctors.
Daniel Baden (11:04):
And had you been to a naturopath before you went
to Kira? No. Okay. So how wasyour first naturopathic
experience?
Tash (11:11):
I love her.
Daniel Baden (11:14):
Don't be shy, just say it like it is,
Unknown (11:16):
It became a mutual admiration club, we had a lot of
fun.
She is my hero. She did thingsfor me that no one could. And
just the answers that I got fromher and everything works, even
though you know, I'm not alwaysperfect. I'm sorry to hear.
(11:36):
That, you know, I start to feellike Oh, I'm not feeling that
good. Or, you know, putting on abit of weight, or I go straight
back to everything here a taughtme. And I feel better. And I
said this to her when westarted. And I've never gone off
dairy. She was the first one tokind of say go off dairy and
gluten. And I was like, Okay, Istill kind of thought, all
(11:58):
right, whatever. But I'll dowhatever you say I was 110% in.
In a day, I felt flatter. And Isaid that to you when I came
back and saw you in a day. Iknow. Obviously I wasn't. But I
felt it. And that was you know,something that I had never tried
before. And I'm just like, wow,I didn't really believe that. It
(12:19):
would make you feel that goodthat quickly. I was like, This
is unbelievable.
Daniel Baden (12:23):
Where do you feel that you hold most of your
weight? Or did you hold most ofyour weight? Oh, no,
Tash (12:27):
I think that generally generally, okay. I'm
Kira Sutherland (12:32):
just even, it's an even thing
Daniel Baden (12:39):
Kira when when a TASH or another lovely lady
walks in. They want to reducetheir weight. What's the what's
your thinking process? What whatgoes through your mind first?
Unknown (12:50):
Oh, it's really about, I guess for me, it's really
about where they're coming fromwhat like, what's the journey
they've already been on? So thatI know I'm not just going down
that line and repeating whatthey've already experienced.
Because obviously they'reseeking me out for other
reasons. And sometimes that's alittle bit tricky because they
(13:11):
don't so many other things. Istart thinking, chit chit chit,
what am I but I guess eachperson I mean, this is gonna
sound so naturopathic, but I'mlooking at each person
individually, right? I don'thave I have an idea. I have my
kind of basics around what Iwant to do with weight loss with
people, but it's become sodifferent with each person, that
(13:34):
you have to have that bigindividual look at why maybe
they're holding the weight theyare or what's going on what
medications what what trainingthey're doing. So it's an
individual thing. And I rememberyour brother come with you to
the first Yeah, I had treatedher brother already. And he was
like, Yeah, I'm gonna come withher for a little bit, which was
(13:55):
gorgeous to know, in some ways.
And yeah, she was nervous. Well,he you are nervous, my brother.
And she would drive an hour anda half to see me.
Tash (14:06):
I would drive six hours and a half my brother was very
supportive. He Yeah, he I had abig meltdown at home. And I
just, I was so at my wit's endon what to do. And I'd actually
seen my reflection in a videothat someone had taken in the
(14:27):
gym and I was like, is that whatI look like? Like, I've trained
so hard, and I work so hard toto, to look, I don't even look
but just, you know, feel better.
And then you see your reflectionand I'm like, I should be
looking better than that. Ishould. I shouldn't be so
mortified in what I'm saying.
Yeah, with the effort that I'mputting in I think I said to use
(14:50):
it set it to you if I walkedaround and eaten takeaway and
and really, you know, not takingcare of myself. You'd be like,
well, you can Oh, yeah, deserveto look like that.
Kira Sutherland (15:02):
No, you said, you said I want the body that I
deserve for the input that Ialready given. I read I reread
that. You actually said that?
Unknown (15:12):
Yeah well I feel that because I do want the body that
I deserved that I put a lot ofwork in. And I worked really
hard on myself and do all theright things. And I feel like I
deserved more than what okay wasshowing.
Daniel Baden (15:26):
We mentioned earlier in this conversation,
there are other factors whichmay influence someone's ability
to reduce weight if they wantto. Kira, one of the things you
mentioned earlier was bodytypes. Can you just talk us
through a little bit maybe whatyou mean by body types and how
you address that differently?
Kira Sutherland (15:43):
I've done well, when I studied naturopathy, I
did do about a year of Ayurvedicstudy as well which kind of body
types people, if you're apractitioner listening, you
know, the vata, pitta, kapha.
And we have these three, they'renot body types, they're doshas,
but and we're a combination ofthem. But, but then I went on
and did further study looking atkind of phenotype. So looking at
(16:06):
at genotypes plus epi genetics,and what what do you end up
with, and I've done trainingwith, I've done training with a
group called ph360. And theybreak everybody down into six
body types. And so there's justnot that I put everybody into
(16:27):
their program, but there's justthis background kind of ticking
over of what is the body type Ihave to work with? What what
hormones? Are they moresensitive to what when under
stress, what does their body do?
And it just gives me that moreindividual lens to look at
people and also to get berealistic with, you know, my
(16:51):
treatment or with a client over?
What does your body type looklike when it's really healthy
because an attache never had anunrealistic opinion about what
she was trying to look like, butit still just gives you a better
basis of of knowing. And in thetraining I did they have
different ideas aroundespecially looking at circadian
(17:12):
rhythms for different body typesand what type of exercise works
better for them and what time ofday to do eating and so I just I
employed some of thosetechniques, which I think really
Yeah, takes it to that nextlevel. Yeah, this
Tash (17:31):
like circadian rhythm thing blew my mind when Kira did
that for me, okay,
Daniel Baden (17:38):
so Kira could you just explain what a circadian
rhythm is?
Kira Sutherland (17:42):
So we're talking about like sleep wake
cycles, so you know what time ofjet so depending on body types,
some people are gonna be moremorning people, some not morning
people, they're night owls, itgoes deeper than that. But in
the system that I had studied,it goes a lot into body types
and how they do like, TASH woulddo better, waking up a little
(18:04):
bit later, being really calm inthe morning. That doesn't always
work for the full time. Youknow, doing they're harder to
exercise in the afternoon ortowards the evening. And then I
was like, Oh, you can stay upuntil you know, your bedtime.
Your optimum bedtime is laterthan what some people say. And I
remember her being like, oh mygod, I would love to go to bed
(18:26):
at that time. But I you know, Ifeel guilty staying up that
late. And so we literally walkedout her schedule by a couple
hours and not eating right awaywhen you wake up and waiting a
little bit and no snacking,which is no fun for anybody but
not so good for her body type.
(18:48):
So,I still dont snack. .
yeah less snacks And because youdon't just have a sleep wake
cycle, your digestive system hasa circadian rhythm has its own
rhythm or and and so we justkind of patterned her life
towards that because it leads toless hypothetically it leads to
less inflammation, it leads toless cortisol production, if
(19:11):
she's working with her body'srhythm rather than against it.
And I find if I can geteverybody's cortisol down, the
weight comes off a lot faster,because cortisol just puts the
brakes on everything.
Daniel Baden (19:24):
Yeah, and I was I was interested, TASH made a
comment earlier that she saidwithin the first day, she felt
flatter. I've actuallyexperienced that with patients
myself, but I actually thinkwhen you take people off foods
that they're sensitive to Yeah,it's basically a reduction in
fluid retention. Yeah, becausethe wrong foods increase
inflammation traps fluid. And ifyou're not having those foods,
(19:48):
you don't get that level. Do youagree with that Kira?
Kira Sutherland (19:50):
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I don't even
always do like we actually didwe even do food testing. We
didn't we just kind of wentunder some assumptions. Yeah. I
put tabs. So Tasha actuallyshowed up with a two week food
diary when she booked it and Isaid, please keep a food and
training diary, I would say 10%of my clients actually front up
(20:11):
with it the first time. She itwas actually one of the best
food diary keepers I've ever metin my life.
Tash (20:17):
No imperfections.
Daniel Baden (20:20):
Did you put a little gold star, in her book?
Kira Sutherland (20:22):
Absolutely.
There's research that if you donothing else, except write down
what you eat that you actuallylose weight. Not that I tell my
clients that but it's not reallywhat I'm doing. It's just their
own doing. But she showed upwith a food diary. And so we had
a good look at it right at thebeginning and, and one of my
first things with weight loss isan anti inflammatory diet. And
(20:44):
it's mean, and it's a little bitnaturopathic, but I basically
pull out all gluten and alldairy for about four to six
weeks. And I remember having tolike bargain about it. But I
just am like, look, we might beable to bring it back in. But
just let's stop this first andsee what we see what happens and
(21:07):
I usually dangle the carrot thatyou'll probably be two to three
kilos lighter just by thatchange. And yes, some of it is
fluid, but you did you feltbetter. Immediately. Felt
better. Better enough. That'sgreat language. Kara. You felt
good enough that it wasn't hardto stay off it.
Tash (21:28):
It's been three years and I'm still pretty much off it.
Yeah. But not in my regularnormal day to day. I don't need
it at all.
Kira Sutherland (21:37):
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Daniel Baden (21:39):
So um, Tash Did you feel that your when you
started the diet, there were anychanges to your sleep habits?
Tash (21:47):
With Kira putting my circadian rhythm in it was so
different. I just thought if Idon't go to bed before, nine 930
I'm going to be a mess the nextday. And then my bedtime ended
up being 11 o'clock at night. Iwas like there's there's no way.
And I couldn't believe that Ipushed myself to stay awake to
(22:09):
the limit and do it properly.
And it's still years, yearslater since we started this. And
I cannot close my eyes until 11.
And like 11 o'clock bang I'm outand I am wide awake. Ready to
go. And squat? Yeah. Morning.
Daniel Baden (22:24):
How do you wake up in the morning? Yeah, what?
Awake?
Tash (22:28):
Let's go. Yep. Okay,
Daniel Baden (22:29):
is that different to how you felt before?
Tash (22:32):
If? Well, I feel like if I wasn't asleep properly at nine.
And then I would be like, I'mexhausted. Because I feel like I
didn't get enough sleep. But asKira told me, sometimes we don't
need that much sleep and it'smaking you feel more tired. But
no, in general, I wasn't a tiredperson. I wasn't really a day
(22:54):
nap. I'm still not, you know,that difference in me being able
to stay awake and not be tiredin the next day and train and
work.
Kira Sutherland (23:05):
She's in charge of a childcare centre
Daniel Baden (23:09):
that just stresses me out immediately.
Tash (23:15):
No, I'm just a preschool in the preschool teacher 30 Just
33 today. Yeah.
So yeah, just to even before myjob and for 10 hours, you know,
and then I leave work and gotraining and I can still come
home and do everything I need toand then I'm asleep at 11 and
(23:36):
backup at six and doing it allover again. Not feeling
Daniel Baden (23:40):
Tash you've been training, you've been training
and exercising your whole life.
When you adapted to Kira'ssuggested dietary changes. Did
you feel that there was anychange to your ability to change
and power strength speedanything like that?
Kira Sutherland (23:57):
Really, I mean, I asked trainer like they're
doing the heavy weights, right?
Right. I love like a cardioaddict that I had to beg to do
weights. He was already doingthe exercise that suits her body
type.
Tash (24:12):
Yes. Yeah, I mean, I've changed my training a little bit
since and a friend of mine shegot me on the training and I
still do two days a week cardioand I hate it but I still get to
do my strength training so Iremember you care and we're
like, but walking is so greatbut you know go for like a two
hour walk walking on the beachand like two hours.
Kira Sutherland (24:42):
Yeah, I don't normally suggest that. We were
just doing like, go out for ahike with somebody and it's not
like I was trying to
Tash (24:50):
get you on a treadmill for two hours do different things.
But yeah, look, I'm still notthe best lover of cardio at all.
Okay, and as my trainer now sheis Oops, yeah,
Kira Sutherland (25:01):
we did, we changed when she was eating to
fit sports nutrition principles.
That was that's one of the bigthings I do in weight loss is
timing people's especially carbintake, right after training and
the safer times where yourbody's going to actually deal
with the carbohydrates moreeasily and more efficiently. And
(25:22):
so we changed around, you know,we changed circadian rhythms,
but we actually changed thetiming of when she was eating
foods. And that's actually whereI think I get better results and
some other people is usingsports nutrition principles,
Daniel Baden (25:38):
because sports Nutrition has been a big thing
for a lot of your career, hasn'tit?
Kira Sutherland (25:43):
Yeah, it is my career. Really, it's, you know,
almost weight loss is byaccident. Well, it's not because
80% of the population wantsweight loss. And, and let's be
honest, if I am talking aboutmyself and my family history, I
come from a family of veryoverweight people. I started
reading nutrition books at theage of 10. Thinking, I've got a
(26:05):
man myself with thisinformation. So I don't you
know, I watched my mum Yo yo, by2530 kilos off and on all the
time. So I'm telling her storythere. But my mom could teach
Weight Watchers, but it was awhole side of my family has
weight issues. So I was luckyenough that I was always
involved in sport, I did a lotof sport. But then studying
(26:26):
sports nutrition was just thegame changer for working with
weight loss differently. And Idon't understand why it's not
talked about more thoseprinciples because you get
people coming in. And they'resuper healthy eaters, but
they're doing it at the wrongtiming for their body. And it's
putting the brakes on
Daniel Baden (26:44):
Tash did the changes you made making a
difference to your generalanxiety?
Tash (26:51):
To be honest, now I'm still very anxious person. Okay.
Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm on mymedication and something we here
and I talked about, but I wasjust like, physically why I went
on them is I was suffering a lotof stomach aches and things like
that. And it was affecting mephysically, which is why I went
on my medication because myquality of life was just not. It
(27:16):
was horrible. Going throughthat. So I think everything put
together. I am much better, butI'm still Yeah, I still have to
manage it. Yeah, I am stillmedicated and doing everything I
need to for that. Yeah.
Kira Sutherland (27:30):
Medication made such a difference for you.
Right. That was a huge Yeah,that was huge. But we you and
it's
Tash (27:36):
a very small like, I'm on a very low dose.
Kira Sutherland (27:39):
I think you've dropped the dose while we were
working.
Tash (27:42):
No. Stayed on the same.
Yeah. But it was so small thatand just the results I had from
it. I was just like, it's great.
But you did take me off thepill. So
Kira Sutherland (27:55):
I was just gonna wonder if you were gonna
say that. Yes. The conversationabout the pill putting the
brakes on the weight loss,right, and potentially making
the anxiety worse for somepeople. So you? Yeah, again,
legally, I can't take anybodyoff anything. But you went and
had that conversation withwhoever prescribed the pill or
(28:17):
chose to do it yourself. But wewent off the pill quite quickly.
And and I think that was a bigbenefit, right? Because you do
it is hard. Weight loss, sadly,is harder while people are on
the pill.
Daniel Baden (28:29):
What do you think the mechanism is the kira.
Kira Sutherland (28:35):
Look, what is the mechanism? I think we're not
having actually know, you know,does the pill make people
slightly more insulin resistant?
Do you know the mechanism? Well,I
Daniel Baden (28:47):
actually think it's extremely complicated. It's
known that the pill, the oralcontraceptive pill will change
genetic expression in a numberof different immune cells,
adhesion molecules, tumornecrosis factor. But one of the
things that has a propensity todo is increase the levels of
PCOS, polycystic ovariansyndrome. And that will increase
(29:12):
insulin resistance. And it'salso interesting to note that in
women that are in low that arelow in vitamin D, they also have
higher levels of insulinresistance when taking the pill.
pill has also been shown toincrease C reactive protein,
which is a marker ofinflammation. And as we've
discussed through this talk, andother talks that we've done,
(29:33):
inflammation seems to affectmany factors including weight
management.
Kira Sutherland (29:39):
Also, you don't get it again, I don't have any
research on this, but you don'tget that beautiful fluctuation
of the female cycle. And I do alot we did go into cyclical
eating. Don't forget about that.
All right, work with clientsbeyond what we did in the first
little while. Wow, when peopleare having a natural cycle,
(30:01):
they're not on the pill, you getthat beautiful lower hormone
period then you get you knowthat gorgeous ovulation where
they feel stronger. And then youknow, okay, luteal phase isn't
so much fun but with a higherhormone, but we we looked, I do
a lot of cyclical dieting withmy clients these days as well.
(30:22):
And so I do two weeks morestrict actually, that works
really well with you. We did twoweeks more strict during the
follicular phase. So the firsthalf of our cycle, that's where
we like went hardcore weightloss be really, really good.
train really hard because yourbody actually accesses your
glycogen, your storedcarbohydrates better in the
(30:46):
first half of the cycle,hypothetically. So you can train
harder, you don't crave as muchfood because your progesterone
is not as high. And then weeased off of hardcore weight
loss in the second half of thecycle when you do have more
cravings. And we actually hadreally good result. And that's
one of the reasons I think youstuck with it for so long,
besides the fact that you aregetting results is it wasn't
(31:08):
like I had you on a 1200 calorierestricted diet the whole time.
Right? We notch Yeah, on and offto, hypothetically not allow all
that hypothalmic thyroid, slowdown with continual calorie
restrict
Daniel Baden (31:29):
How did you go the cyclical eating tash?
Tash (31:32):
Kyra mapped it all out for me? And yes, I just followed
exactly what she said. But yeah,I'd been on the pill. Oh, my
God, since I was like, 15-16.
Sorry. Yeah. And I just, Istopped and it was, it was fine.
And then just, I think you tookme off more to for that. So that
hormone and following it wasmuch, much easier for us to map
(31:54):
it out. Then when you're on thepill and you don't get that?
Kira Sutherland (32:00):
Yeah. You know, we wanted to see how you mood
wise how would you know somepeople mood is much worse on the
pedal. So and there was just noway to know because it had been
so many years that you were onit was also well, let's see what
you feel like off it.
Daniel Baden (32:13):
Tash I know that you had a really impressive
outcome, you lost about 30kilos. And over what period was
that?
Tash (32:23):
Oh, hopefully, a year and a half
Kira Sutherland (32:26):
year and a half. I think it was about a
year and a half. That's a lot.
She'd send me gorgeous photos.
On this, like when we were westarted working together after
the first lockdown. So she'smade it to me. You were the very
first client I let come face toface after the first lockdown.
(32:48):
And then we were workingtogether when we all went back
into lockdown. So I would getrandom texts with just her toes.
And the number on the scale.
beautiful.
Tash (33:01):
we care about the scales very much.
Kira Sutherland (33:04):
No, we don't.
But it was still it was which iswhat I would check. It was
Tash (33:09):
but I also enjoyed that Kira wasn't scale focused. And
I've grown up being so scalefocused, and I still yell at my
mother who wants to get on themevery week. I'm like, Don't
should do it. But she doesn'tseem to me that anyway. Sorry.
And I think I hated the scale somuch that Kira taught me so much
(33:29):
more about measurementmeasurements and that, you know,
not worrying week to week andmore, we would go a month, and
then and then weigh in or notworry about it so much. But
let's look at your measurementsbecause the scales for me just
sometimes don't move, but thenyou would measure yourself and
(33:51):
your measurements would be downso much. So
Kira Sutherland (33:54):
Tash, what come in the same pair of jeans every
time remember those jeans and
Tash (33:59):
I still have them. She'll come in
Kira Sutherland (34:01):
the jeans and they would just get bigger and
bigger and bigger was actuallythe jeans were bigger, more
important than the scale. I putyou on the scale. You didn't
look I think I was like I putyou on unmute. But I just needed
to see, you know, scales aren'tfun for anybody. But there's a
(34:22):
point where I need a startingpoint if they're willing to get
on so sometimes I look and Iwrite it down without telling
them
Daniel Baden (34:32):
what happens now do you just keep going the way
you've been going? Do you checkin with Kira every now and
again? All the
Tash (34:37):
time? Yeah, yes. Not even I mean more socially than
anything. I do. I will tell heryes I'm I call it you know I'm
back on the Kira the minute thatout yeah, I'm gonna get serious
and I'm like, right. You haven'tbeen that
Kira Sutherland (34:57):
guilty texts now. But you're like Oh, just
kind of had a wild month. Yeah.
Seeing you clinically in a year,oh, we probably talk at least
once a month by text. Yeah tocheck in. Yeah. And I love
seeing what she's up to onsocials and her little you
(35:20):
started like modeling forsomebody, you were doing lots of
clothing modeling. It was sofun,
Tash (35:28):
that I didn't do that there was something something
very out of my comfort zone. Butyes, I did a little bit of it.
Daniel Baden (35:36):
You know, what I love about this story more than
anything, personally, is thatyou and Kira have worked
together to actually create a, alife plan of eating and exercise
and not, you know, because somany people go on these boom and
bust sort of diets, you know,the latest diet that comes
through. And yeah, I thinknaturopathicly speaking, it's
(36:00):
really about just the rest ofyour life, this is how you eat
but you've got to the client, orthe patient has to love that
diet. And and just say, Yeah,this is now me. And that's to me
the the important outcome. Socongratulations on that, because
you know, you're set up.
Kira Sutherland (36:20):
Ah, Daniel, I mean, Daniel, is that when you
call and you're like, Okay,think about a client and I was
like, so much, calling Tash. Thefirst person that I thought of,
but it is it's like, I mean,weight loss or any naturopathic
treatment. It's, I always say,because I lecture at uni. I will
(36:43):
say, you know, your client needsto not need you eventually,
they're supposed to go away if Idon't teach them what to do for
themselves. I've failed my job,in my opinion. And again, I'm
not working with fertility andstuff like that. So you took it
on and you felt you felt so muchbetter. It got pretty easy in
the I mean, it's never easy, butya know, when you were ready,
(37:08):
right person right time.
Tash (37:10):
Absolutely. And then I didn't do anything. Halfway. So
I came to you ready to give you110%? And yeah, you're
Kira Sutherland (37:19):
very committed.
I'm really no alcohol. How longdo we need to do no alcohol for
let's also bring Matt in. Yeah,
Tash (37:27):
yeah. Listen, I'm not.
Actually no,
Kira Sutherland (37:31):
you weren't a big drinker. But I'm saying I
also am really strict onalcohol. Daniel, and I do. I
didn't bring that up. Like Ihave hard rules. I'm because
I've worked with people andthey're so good with the diet
and but if they drink too much,just slows it. It goes five
times slower.
Daniel Baden (37:48):
Well theres alot of calories in alcohol. Not that
we're calorie counting. But it'sdoes change on your blood
sugars. Yeah.
Kira Sutherland (37:55):
And then you eat like shit when you? Yeah,
yeah,
Tash (37:58):
right. wasn't a big drinker. I know you were to
Daniel Baden (38:05):
push. I'm so grateful that you were so open
and honest and brave to come on.
And, you know, this is a guideto other people that are just
looking to find a way to helpthemselves. So thank you. My
pleasure.
Tash (38:19):
Thanks for having me.
Daniel Baden (38:22):
People read more, or how did they get in touch
with you?
Kira Sutherland (38:26):
Sure. So I'm probably the easiest where
everybody is on socials. I'm at,at Uber health you b e r h e al
th and if that has been let's beclear, that's been my business
name long before Uber it didn'tbecome the cool man. Cool name
(38:51):
what a great idea. I'm like, No,it was my idea 25 years ago. So
I'm at Uber health. But yeah, mywebsites just my name
kira.sutherland.com.au.
Daniel Baden (39:02):
Fantastic. Okay, well Kira. Also very grateful
for your time. people won't knowthis, but it is way past dinner
time so look, thank you both somuch.
Today we have the very well known Kira Sutherland,
who's one of the most gorgeousand successful practitioners in
Australia. And her client, Tash.
Hello to both of you. Hello,hey, weight loss is a big issue
for a lot of Australians. Weknow that from 1995 to 2018 in
one particular study, men hadgained an average of around
(00:39):
about 6%, taking their weightfrom around 82 kilos to 87
kilos. And women on average 8%increase taking their average
weight from 67 to 72 kilos,leaving around about two thirds
of the Australian populationeither recognized as obese or
overweight, for those peoplethat do want to lose a few
(01:00):
kilos, they can struggle. Andthe struggle is is quite real. I
know that you can go to someprofessionals who will just say
eat less and exercise more. Butfor a lot of people, that just
doesn't work. It doesn't. Itdoesn't for a lot of reasons.
And they can be as we'relearning through scientific
literature, it can be associatedto a person's microbiome, or the
(01:23):
little bugs that live in yourgut. It can be associated to the
food types, the type of foodthat you're eating, may not
particularly suit you as anindividual. And there are also
drugs out there, like the oralcontraceptive pill as one
example, which will encourageweight gain. So it doesn't
matter how much you eat less, orhow much you exercise. It's not
(01:46):
going to help as much as youhope it would. Kira, does that
sound right to you?
Kira Sutherland (01:53):
That's about right to me. Yeah. Such a hard
such a hard topic.
Daniel Baden (01:57):
Yeah. Is there anything that you think I missed
in that little list of thingsthat can affect people's weight,
ability to lose weight?
Kira Sutherland (02:05):
I think hormones would be my next one to
add, no matter your sex, nomatter your gender hormones get
in the way, whether they be sexhormones, or stress hormones,
our body really struggles.
Daniel Baden (02:19):
Oh, yeah. Look, I know that when people sometimes
stop working or take a breakfrom work or long holiday, they
can lose weight. So I guess thatis adding to the story there
that the stress hormones,through cortisol will have some
sort of significant impact onweight gain.
Kira Sutherland (02:35):
Yeah, absolutely. As well as body
type. I really look. And Tashaand I did this, eventually, we
really looked at what was heractual body type, and which, you
know, how different body typesdo better with certain styles of
eating or certain timing ofeating, and we put that into
(02:55):
play. I'm halfway through yourjourney, right? We didn't kind
of start off with that. But Ialluded to it from memory. You
know, remember?
Tash (03:05):
I kind of started that way. Because when I came to you,
I was I've tried so many thingsyou were like, Yeah, so I hit
you with the hard stuff waslike, Give me everything you
Kira Sutherland (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, we did. We talked about any got?
type, but I didn't really Ithink once we hit a plateau, I
went into another level of bodytype and what I thought we
needed to do, but yeah, wedefinitely stepped into
different things. But yes, Ireread my original notes. Keep
it easy in the first go.
Daniel Baden (03:39):
I'd like to get back onto body type sometime
this evening. Because it'sthat's really interesting. Tash
tell us about you. I know you're38, I'm sorry. Should I not give
that away?
Kira Sutherland (03:52):
You look like you're 22
Daniel Baden (03:59):
I know that you've had a really long struggle with
trying to lose weight. Since youwere quite a young girl. What
was the story?
Unknown (04:07):
Oh wow. Um, I mean, I've always been a bigger kid. I
Tash (04:10):
When you were like five or six years old, you identify to
was you know, growing up, wespoke about you know, God love
my mom and dad. They dideverything they put us into
every sport. We were veryhealthy family. But um, you
know, even I mentioned you know,even at five my mom was like,
Okay, we took me a full creammilk and put me on like white
milk and, and just tried all thetricks I was on. You know, we
(04:34):
did Weight Watchers, we didlight and easy. I took you know,
everything that said diet on it.
You know, back in the day, thisis the 90s everything was in the
diet brand. And we dideverything that we thought was
the right thing. And I triedeverything. And up until I met
here I was I tried every whichway to lose weight. And I could
(04:54):
lose weight. I struggled but itwould come off i And then it
would all come back on. I'vealways been a trainer, I've
always played a lot of sport.
And I just struggled with myweight all ways. I'm also very
hard on myself. So you know, Iwasn't that person to be like,
(05:15):
Oh, well, that's just my bodytype. That's who I am. I just, I
wouldn't I wouldn't settle forthat I always wanted to be the
healthiest version of myself, Icould be
yourself that you felt you'reoverweight, or carrying too much
weight. Is that something thatyou came to yourself? Or was
(05:35):
there pressure from peoplearound you?
Not so much? I think just beingso health conscious. And my
parents were also very healthconscious, we were always so you
know, that was kind of thetrends wasn't so much that at
five years old, I was like, Ifelt like a fat kid. And when I
looked at myself, I reallywasn't, but it was just trying
(05:56):
to be the health, you know, thathealthy kind of, and you know, I
was a little bit bigger than therest of the five year olds that
you stand next to so I'd say,you know, more of a comparison
and looking at me compared toeverybody else I was, you know,
bigger. So what can we do tohelp her but I was I was very
bullied. In Ear six, I was movedout, I was called a fat cow. And
(06:21):
when I look back at photos of meand your six, I'm like, there
was nothing wrong with me. Therewas nothing wrong with me. But I
went through that was horriblecurrent 1011 year old little
girl. And so again, that youknow that that's in your mind,
and you go through that. So youdeal with it the way that that
you think is is the right way togo. And then my mom and dad
(06:43):
supported me in the best waythey they knew how and what the
trends and what what it was, youknow what it was in the 90s.
Early in early 90s, mid 90s, youknow, and I did I think I went
on Weight Watchers in the six toand not because of that, just
because, you know, I was alwaystrying to do better and be as
healthy as I could and, and thatwas just kind of our answers,
(07:06):
really. But yeah, I did. I wentthrough through a lot.
Daniel Baden (07:10):
And how was your overall health?
Unknown (07:12):
Well I was always very healthy, my immune system, I was
a sicker kid. I think, you know,I was I had glandular fever. In
year three? I think I was like,nine yeah, young. And then I had
I caught hepatitis Hepatitis A.
We always went to Foster forChristmas holidays, and it was
(07:32):
in the water in the seafood upthere. So of course every person
that went there never got it,but I did. So I was that was in
the seventh 1997. But I found myhealth generally my immune
system since I started my job asa childcare teacher. I don't get
anything anymore. It may alsohelp them eating really well
(07:53):
when I you know, I take care ofmyself. But nowadays, I barely
get sick touch wood. But yeah, Iwas yeah, my immune system was
not as was kind of big catcheverything that was going
around. But
Daniel Baden (08:12):
so I'm guessing that until you went to see Kira,
you'd gone through it a fewdifferent diets or programs or
processes. You mentioned WeightWatchers when you were younger.
What other things did you try?
Unknown (08:25):
I had done a lot. I did the shakes. The silly ones you
buy in Priceline. God, I'venever been sicker I when I was
on those. My God had tonsillitisevery two weeks. It was bad.
Never again. But you know, yousee them you're like, Okay, I'll
try that. And yeah, like, don'tget me wrong, I lost weight on
(08:46):
them. But it's just not theright way to go. I also saw a
which worked for me, and theywere really, really supportive.
And that's how I found Kira. Butfriends of mine are in a
supplement store at West Ryde.
And they she has Mel had doneKira's course. So she put me on,
you know, put me on the dietgave me you know, recipes and
all sorts of things. And theyput me on a training program as
(09:10):
well. And, look, I lost about 17kilos with them. And it was
great. And they were so helpful.
But it was kind of like alltheir tricks also weren't
working eventually. And thingsjust stopped. You know, I
stopped losing marks coming backon and I was still trying and
training really hard and eatingproperly and just what
(09:32):
everything that she had learnedwasn't enough. So then they
referred me to Kira. Becausethey're like, You need a bit
more go to the go to the best weknow so they referred me to Kira
Daniel Baden (09:43):
Yeah, great. And before you got to Kira, did you
also try any medical drugs orpharmaceutical agents or go to
any doctors for any of this?
Unknown (09:54):
No, I was very anxious to ever go to a doctor. I didn't
like their judgment. They theywere, I've had an experience
with a doctor once that, youknow, I went in for my
tonsillitis or whatever I had.
And straightaway just asked me,How much do you weigh? And I
said, Well, I'm not here todiscuss my weight. I'm here to
(10:15):
discuss, you know, I'm feelingsick. And he just just generally
looked to me and said, you know,probably lose a little bit of
weight. And I was like, reallytaken aback and as a really
anxious person, I do suffer withanxiety. I, I'm still to this
day, I still get anxious just togo to the doctor, because I feel
like they just looked at me andjudged me on my, what I looked
(10:39):
for, and ashamed that I was anunhealthy person. So I still
really, really struggle going toa doctor. So I would never have
gone to them to discuss myweight ever. I still I still
don't like going. Oh, no, Idon't have to. But ya know, so
No, I never went on anything,given some other doctors.
Daniel Baden (11:04):
And had you been to a naturopath before you went
to Kira? No. Okay. So how wasyour first naturopathic
experience?
Tash (11:11):
I love her.
Daniel Baden (11:14):
Don't be shy, just say it like it is,
Unknown (11:16):
It became a mutual admiration club, we had a lot of
fun.
She is my hero. She did thingsfor me that no one could. And
just the answers that I got fromher and everything works, even
though you know, I'm not alwaysperfect. I'm sorry to hear.
(11:36):
That, you know, I start to feellike Oh, I'm not feeling that
good. Or, you know, putting on abit of weight, or I go straight
back to everything here a taughtme. And I feel better. And I
said this to her when westarted. And I've never gone off
dairy. She was the first one tokind of say go off dairy and
gluten. And I was like, Okay, Istill kind of thought, all
(11:58):
right, whatever. But I'll dowhatever you say I was 110% in.
In a day, I felt flatter. And Isaid that to you when I came
back and saw you in a day. Iknow. Obviously I wasn't. But I
felt it. And that was you know,something that I had never tried
before. And I'm just like, wow,I didn't really believe that. It
(12:19):
would make you feel that goodthat quickly. I was like, This
is unbelievable.
Daniel Baden (12:23):
Where do you feel that you hold most of your
weight? Or did you hold most ofyour weight? Oh, no,
Tash (12:27):
I think that generally generally, okay. I'm
Kira Sutherland (12:32):
just even, it's an even thing
Daniel Baden (12:39):
Kira when when a TASH or another lovely lady
walks in. They want to reducetheir weight. What's the what's
your thinking process? What whatgoes through your mind first?
Unknown (12:50):
Oh, it's really about, I guess for me, it's really
about where they're coming fromwhat like, what's the journey
they've already been on? So thatI know I'm not just going down
that line and repeating whatthey've already experienced.
Because obviously they'reseeking me out for other
reasons. And sometimes that's alittle bit tricky because they
(13:11):
don't so many other things. Istart thinking, chit chit chit,
what am I but I guess eachperson I mean, this is gonna
sound so naturopathic, but I'mlooking at each person
individually, right? I don'thave I have an idea. I have my
kind of basics around what Iwant to do with weight loss with
people, but it's become sodifferent with each person, that
(13:34):
you have to have that bigindividual look at why maybe
they're holding the weight theyare or what's going on what
medications what what trainingthey're doing. So it's an
individual thing. And I rememberyour brother come with you to
the first Yeah, I had treatedher brother already. And he was
like, Yeah, I'm gonna come withher for a little bit, which was
(13:55):
gorgeous to know, in some ways.
And yeah, she was nervous. Well,he you are nervous, my brother.
And she would drive an hour anda half to see me.
Tash (14:06):
I would drive six hours and a half my brother was very
supportive. He Yeah, he I had abig meltdown at home. And I
just, I was so at my wit's endon what to do. And I'd actually
seen my reflection in a videothat someone had taken in the
(14:27):
gym and I was like, is that whatI look like? Like, I've trained
so hard, and I work so hard toto, to look, I don't even look
but just, you know, feel better.
And then you see your reflectionand I'm like, I should be
looking better than that. Ishould. I shouldn't be so
mortified in what I'm saying.
Yeah, with the effort that I'mputting in I think I said to use
(14:50):
it set it to you if I walkedaround and eaten takeaway and
and really, you know, not takingcare of myself. You'd be like,
well, you can Oh, yeah, deserveto look like that.
Kira Sutherland (15:02):
No, you said, you said I want the body that I
deserve for the input that Ialready given. I read I reread
that. You actually said that?
Unknown (15:12):
Yeah well I feel that because I do want the body that
I deserved that I put a lot ofwork in. And I worked really
hard on myself and do all theright things. And I feel like I
deserved more than what okay wasshowing.
Daniel Baden (15:26):
We mentioned earlier in this conversation,
there are other factors whichmay influence someone's ability
to reduce weight if they wantto. Kira, one of the things you
mentioned earlier was bodytypes. Can you just talk us
through a little bit maybe whatyou mean by body types and how
you address that differently?
Kira Sutherland (15:43):
I've done well, when I studied naturopathy, I
did do about a year of Ayurvedicstudy as well which kind of body
types people, if you're apractitioner listening, you
know, the vata, pitta, kapha.
And we have these three, they'renot body types, they're doshas,
but and we're a combination ofthem. But, but then I went on
and did further study looking atkind of phenotype. So looking at
(16:06):
at genotypes plus epi genetics,and what what do you end up
with, and I've done trainingwith, I've done training with a
group called ph360. And theybreak everybody down into six
body types. And so there's justnot that I put everybody into
(16:27):
their program, but there's justthis background kind of ticking
over of what is the body type Ihave to work with? What what
hormones? Are they moresensitive to what when under
stress, what does their body do?
And it just gives me that moreindividual lens to look at
people and also to get berealistic with, you know, my
(16:51):
treatment or with a client over?
What does your body type looklike when it's really healthy
because an attache never had anunrealistic opinion about what
she was trying to look like, butit still just gives you a better
basis of of knowing. And in thetraining I did they have
different ideas aroundespecially looking at circadian
(17:12):
rhythms for different body typesand what type of exercise works
better for them and what time ofday to do eating and so I just I
employed some of thosetechniques, which I think really
Yeah, takes it to that nextlevel. Yeah, this
Tash (17:31):
like circadian rhythm thing blew my mind when Kira did
that for me, okay,
Daniel Baden (17:38):
so Kira could you just explain what a circadian
rhythm is?
Kira Sutherland (17:42):
So we're talking about like sleep wake
cycles, so you know what time ofjet so depending on body types,
some people are gonna be moremorning people, some not morning
people, they're night owls, itgoes deeper than that. But in
the system that I had studied,it goes a lot into body types
and how they do like, TASH woulddo better, waking up a little
(18:04):
bit later, being really calm inthe morning. That doesn't always
work for the full time. Youknow, doing they're harder to
exercise in the afternoon ortowards the evening. And then I
was like, Oh, you can stay upuntil you know, your bedtime.
Your optimum bedtime is laterthan what some people say. And I
remember her being like, oh mygod, I would love to go to bed
(18:26):
at that time. But I you know, Ifeel guilty staying up that
late. And so we literally walkedout her schedule by a couple
hours and not eating right awaywhen you wake up and waiting a
little bit and no snacking,which is no fun for anybody but
not so good for her body type.
(18:48):
So,I still dont snack. .
yeah less snacks And because youdon't just have a sleep wake
cycle, your digestive system hasa circadian rhythm has its own
rhythm or and and so we justkind of patterned her life
towards that because it leads toless hypothetically it leads to
less inflammation, it leads toless cortisol production, if
(19:11):
she's working with her body'srhythm rather than against it.
And I find if I can geteverybody's cortisol down, the
weight comes off a lot faster,because cortisol just puts the
brakes on everything.
Daniel Baden (19:24):
Yeah, and I was I was interested, TASH made a
comment earlier that she saidwithin the first day, she felt
flatter. I've actuallyexperienced that with patients
myself, but I actually thinkwhen you take people off foods
that they're sensitive to Yeah,it's basically a reduction in
fluid retention. Yeah, becausethe wrong foods increase
inflammation traps fluid. And ifyou're not having those foods,
(19:48):
you don't get that level. Do youagree with that Kira?
Kira Sutherland (19:50):
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I don't even
always do like we actually didwe even do food testing. We
didn't we just kind of wentunder some assumptions. Yeah. I
put tabs. So Tasha actuallyshowed up with a two week food
diary when she booked it and Isaid, please keep a food and
training diary, I would say 10%of my clients actually front up
(20:11):
with it the first time. She itwas actually one of the best
food diary keepers I've ever metin my life.
Tash (20:17):
No imperfections.
Daniel Baden (20:20):
Did you put a little gold star, in her book?
Kira Sutherland (20:22):
Absolutely.
There's research that if you donothing else, except write down
what you eat that you actuallylose weight. Not that I tell my
clients that but it's not reallywhat I'm doing. It's just their
own doing. But she showed upwith a food diary. And so we had
a good look at it right at thebeginning and, and one of my
first things with weight loss isan anti inflammatory diet. And
(20:44):
it's mean, and it's a little bitnaturopathic, but I basically
pull out all gluten and alldairy for about four to six
weeks. And I remember having tolike bargain about it. But I
just am like, look, we might beable to bring it back in. But
just let's stop this first andsee what we see what happens and
(21:07):
I usually dangle the carrot thatyou'll probably be two to three
kilos lighter just by thatchange. And yes, some of it is
fluid, but you did you feltbetter. Immediately. Felt
better. Better enough. That'sgreat language. Kara. You felt
good enough that it wasn't hardto stay off it.
Tash (21:28):
It's been three years and I'm still pretty much off it.
Yeah. But not in my regularnormal day to day. I don't need
it at all.
Kira Sutherland (21:37):
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Daniel Baden (21:39):
So um, Tash Did you feel that your when you
started the diet, there were anychanges to your sleep habits?
Tash (21:47):
With Kira putting my circadian rhythm in it was so
different. I just thought if Idon't go to bed before, nine 930
I'm going to be a mess the nextday. And then my bedtime ended
up being 11 o'clock at night. Iwas like there's there's no way.
And I couldn't believe that Ipushed myself to stay awake to
(22:09):
the limit and do it properly.
And it's still years, yearslater since we started this. And
I cannot close my eyes until 11.
And like 11 o'clock bang I'm outand I am wide awake. Ready to
go. And squat? Yeah. Morning.
Daniel Baden (22:24):
How do you wake up in the morning? Yeah, what?
Awake?
Tash (22:28):
Let's go. Yep. Okay,
Daniel Baden (22:29):
is that different to how you felt before?
Tash (22:32):
If? Well, I feel like if I wasn't asleep properly at nine.
And then I would be like, I'mexhausted. Because I feel like I
didn't get enough sleep. But asKira told me, sometimes we don't
need that much sleep and it'smaking you feel more tired. But
no, in general, I wasn't a tiredperson. I wasn't really a day
(22:54):
nap. I'm still not, you know,that difference in me being able
to stay awake and not be tiredin the next day and train and
work.
Kira Sutherland (23:05):
She's in charge of a childcare centre
Daniel Baden (23:09):
that just stresses me out immediately.
Tash (23:15):
No, I'm just a preschool in the preschool teacher 30 Just
33 today. Yeah.
So yeah, just to even before myjob and for 10 hours, you know,
and then I leave work and gotraining and I can still come
home and do everything I need toand then I'm asleep at 11 and
(23:36):
backup at six and doing it allover again. Not feeling
Daniel Baden (23:40):
Tash you've been training, you've been training
and exercising your whole life.
When you adapted to Kira'ssuggested dietary changes. Did
you feel that there was anychange to your ability to change
and power strength speedanything like that?
Kira Sutherland (23:57):
Really, I mean, I asked trainer like they're
doing the heavy weights, right?
Right. I love like a cardioaddict that I had to beg to do
weights. He was already doingthe exercise that suits her body
type.
Tash (24:12):
Yes. Yeah, I mean, I've changed my training a little bit
since and a friend of mine shegot me on the training and I
still do two days a week cardioand I hate it but I still get to
do my strength training so Iremember you care and we're
like, but walking is so greatbut you know go for like a two
hour walk walking on the beachand like two hours.
Kira Sutherland (24:42):
Yeah, I don't normally suggest that. We were
just doing like, go out for ahike with somebody and it's not
like I was trying to
Tash (24:50):
get you on a treadmill for two hours do different things.
But yeah, look, I'm still notthe best lover of cardio at all.
Okay, and as my trainer now sheis Oops, yeah,
Kira Sutherland (25:01):
we did, we changed when she was eating to
fit sports nutrition principles.
That was that's one of the bigthings I do in weight loss is
timing people's especially carbintake, right after training and
the safer times where yourbody's going to actually deal
with the carbohydrates moreeasily and more efficiently. And
(25:22):
so we changed around, you know,we changed circadian rhythms,
but we actually changed thetiming of when she was eating
foods. And that's actually whereI think I get better results and
some other people is usingsports nutrition principles,
Daniel Baden (25:38):
because sports Nutrition has been a big thing
for a lot of your career, hasn'tit?
Kira Sutherland (25:43):
Yeah, it is my career. Really, it's, you know,
almost weight loss is byaccident. Well, it's not because
80% of the population wantsweight loss. And, and let's be
honest, if I am talking aboutmyself and my family history, I
come from a family of veryoverweight people. I started
reading nutrition books at theage of 10. Thinking, I've got a
(26:05):
man myself with thisinformation. So I don't you
know, I watched my mum Yo yo, by2530 kilos off and on all the
time. So I'm telling her storythere. But my mom could teach
Weight Watchers, but it was awhole side of my family has
weight issues. So I was luckyenough that I was always
involved in sport, I did a lotof sport. But then studying
(26:26):
sports nutrition was just thegame changer for working with
weight loss differently. And Idon't understand why it's not
talked about more thoseprinciples because you get
people coming in. And they'resuper healthy eaters, but
they're doing it at the wrongtiming for their body. And it's
putting the brakes on
Daniel Baden (26:44):
Tash did the changes you made making a
difference to your generalanxiety?
Tash (26:51):
To be honest, now I'm still very anxious person. Okay.
Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm on mymedication and something we here
and I talked about, but I wasjust like, physically why I went
on them is I was suffering a lotof stomach aches and things like
that. And it was affecting mephysically, which is why I went
on my medication because myquality of life was just not. It
(27:16):
was horrible. Going throughthat. So I think everything put
together. I am much better, butI'm still Yeah, I still have to
manage it. Yeah, I am stillmedicated and doing everything I
need to for that. Yeah.
Kira Sutherland (27:30):
Medication made such a difference for you.
Right. That was a huge Yeah,that was huge. But we you and
it's
Tash (27:36):
a very small like, I'm on a very low dose.
Kira Sutherland (27:39):
I think you've dropped the dose while we were
working.
Tash (27:42):
No. Stayed on the same.
Yeah. But it was so small thatand just the results I had from
it. I was just like, it's great.
But you did take me off thepill. So
Kira Sutherland (27:55):
I was just gonna wonder if you were gonna
say that. Yes. The conversationabout the pill putting the
brakes on the weight loss,right, and potentially making
the anxiety worse for somepeople. So you? Yeah, again,
legally, I can't take anybodyoff anything. But you went and
had that conversation withwhoever prescribed the pill or
(28:17):
chose to do it yourself. But wewent off the pill quite quickly.
And and I think that was a bigbenefit, right? Because you do
it is hard. Weight loss, sadly,is harder while people are on
the pill.
Daniel Baden (28:29):
What do you think the mechanism is the kira.
Kira Sutherland (28:35):
Look, what is the mechanism? I think we're not
having actually know, you know,does the pill make people
slightly more insulin resistant?
Do you know the mechanism? Well,I
Daniel Baden (28:47):
actually think it's extremely complicated. It's
known that the pill, the oralcontraceptive pill will change
genetic expression in a numberof different immune cells,
adhesion molecules, tumornecrosis factor. But one of the
things that has a propensity todo is increase the levels of
PCOS, polycystic ovariansyndrome. And that will increase
(29:12):
insulin resistance. And it'salso interesting to note that in
women that are in low that arelow in vitamin D, they also have
higher levels of insulinresistance when taking the pill.
pill has also been shown toincrease C reactive protein,
which is a marker ofinflammation. And as we've
discussed through this talk, andother talks that we've done,
(29:33):
inflammation seems to affectmany factors including weight
management.
Kira Sutherland (29:39):
Also, you don't get it again, I don't have any
research on this, but you don'tget that beautiful fluctuation
of the female cycle. And I do alot we did go into cyclical
eating. Don't forget about that.
All right, work with clientsbeyond what we did in the first
little while. Wow, when peopleare having a natural cycle,
(30:01):
they're not on the pill, you getthat beautiful lower hormone
period then you get you knowthat gorgeous ovulation where
they feel stronger. And then youknow, okay, luteal phase isn't
so much fun but with a higherhormone, but we we looked, I do
a lot of cyclical dieting withmy clients these days as well.
(30:22):
And so I do two weeks morestrict actually, that works
really well with you. We did twoweeks more strict during the
follicular phase. So the firsthalf of our cycle, that's where
we like went hardcore weightloss be really, really good.
train really hard because yourbody actually accesses your
glycogen, your storedcarbohydrates better in the
(30:46):
first half of the cycle,hypothetically. So you can train
harder, you don't crave as muchfood because your progesterone
is not as high. And then weeased off of hardcore weight
loss in the second half of thecycle when you do have more
cravings. And we actually hadreally good result. And that's
one of the reasons I think youstuck with it for so long,
besides the fact that you aregetting results is it wasn't
(31:08):
like I had you on a 1200 calorierestricted diet the whole time.
Right? We notch Yeah, on and offto, hypothetically not allow all
that hypothalmic thyroid, slowdown with continual calorie
restrict
Daniel Baden (31:29):
How did you go the cyclical eating tash?
Tash (31:32):
Kyra mapped it all out for me? And yes, I just followed
exactly what she said. But yeah,I'd been on the pill. Oh, my
God, since I was like, 15-16.
Sorry. Yeah. And I just, Istopped and it was, it was fine.
And then just, I think you tookme off more to for that. So that
hormone and following it wasmuch, much easier for us to map
(31:54):
it out. Then when you're on thepill and you don't get that?
Kira Sutherland (32:00):
Yeah. You know, we wanted to see how you mood
wise how would you know somepeople mood is much worse on the
pedal. So and there was just noway to know because it had been
so many years that you were onit was also well, let's see what
you feel like off it.
Daniel Baden (32:13):
Tash I know that you had a really impressive
outcome, you lost about 30kilos. And over what period was
that?
Tash (32:23):
Oh, hopefully, a year and a half
Kira Sutherland (32:26):
year and a half. I think it was about a
year and a half. That's a lot.
She'd send me gorgeous photos.
On this, like when we were westarted working together after
the first lockdown. So she'smade it to me. You were the very
first client I let come face toface after the first lockdown.
(32:48):
And then we were workingtogether when we all went back
into lockdown. So I would getrandom texts with just her toes.
And the number on the scale.
beautiful.
Tash (33:01):
we care about the scales very much.
Kira Sutherland (33:04):
No, we don't.
But it was still it was which iswhat I would check. It was
Tash (33:09):
but I also enjoyed that Kira wasn't scale focused. And
I've grown up being so scalefocused, and I still yell at my
mother who wants to get on themevery week. I'm like, Don't
should do it. But she doesn'tseem to me that anyway. Sorry.
And I think I hated the scale somuch that Kira taught me so much
(33:29):
more about measurementmeasurements and that, you know,
not worrying week to week andmore, we would go a month, and
then and then weigh in or notworry about it so much. But
let's look at your measurementsbecause the scales for me just
sometimes don't move, but thenyou would measure yourself and
(33:51):
your measurements would be downso much. So
Kira Sutherland (33:54):
Tash, what come in the same pair of jeans every
time remember those jeans and
Tash (33:59):
I still have them. She'll come in
Kira Sutherland (34:01):
the jeans and they would just get bigger and
bigger and bigger was actuallythe jeans were bigger, more
important than the scale. I putyou on the scale. You didn't
look I think I was like I putyou on unmute. But I just needed
to see, you know, scales aren'tfun for anybody. But there's a
(34:22):
point where I need a startingpoint if they're willing to get
on so sometimes I look and Iwrite it down without telling
them
Daniel Baden (34:32):
what happens now do you just keep going the way
you've been going? Do you checkin with Kira every now and
again? All the
Tash (34:37):
time? Yeah, yes. Not even I mean more socially than
anything. I do. I will tell heryes I'm I call it you know I'm
back on the Kira the minute thatout yeah, I'm gonna get serious
and I'm like, right. You haven'tbeen that
Kira Sutherland (34:57):
guilty texts now. But you're like Oh, just
kind of had a wild month. Yeah.
Seeing you clinically in a year,oh, we probably talk at least
once a month by text. Yeah tocheck in. Yeah. And I love
seeing what she's up to onsocials and her little you
(35:20):
started like modeling forsomebody, you were doing lots of
clothing modeling. It was sofun,
Tash (35:28):
that I didn't do that there was something something
very out of my comfort zone. Butyes, I did a little bit of it.
Daniel Baden (35:36):
You know, what I love about this story more than
anything, personally, is thatyou and Kira have worked
together to actually create a, alife plan of eating and exercise
and not, you know, because somany people go on these boom and
bust sort of diets, you know,the latest diet that comes
through. And yeah, I thinknaturopathicly speaking, it's
(36:00):
really about just the rest ofyour life, this is how you eat
but you've got to the client, orthe patient has to love that
diet. And and just say, Yeah,this is now me. And that's to me
the the important outcome. Socongratulations on that, because
you know, you're set up.
Kira Sutherland (36:20):
Ah, Daniel, I mean, Daniel, is that when you
call and you're like, Okay,think about a client and I was
like, so much, calling Tash. Thefirst person that I thought of,
but it is it's like, I mean,weight loss or any naturopathic
treatment. It's, I always say,because I lecture at uni. I will
(36:43):
say, you know, your client needsto not need you eventually,
they're supposed to go away if Idon't teach them what to do for
themselves. I've failed my job,in my opinion. And again, I'm
not working with fertility andstuff like that. So you took it
on and you felt you felt so muchbetter. It got pretty easy in
the I mean, it's never easy, butya know, when you were ready,
(37:08):
right person right time.
Tash (37:10):
Absolutely. And then I didn't do anything. Halfway. So
I came to you ready to give you110%? And yeah, you're
Kira Sutherland (37:19):
very committed.
I'm really no alcohol. How longdo we need to do no alcohol for
let's also bring Matt in. Yeah,
Tash (37:27):
yeah. Listen, I'm not.
Actually no,
Kira Sutherland (37:31):
you weren't a big drinker. But I'm saying I
also am really strict onalcohol. Daniel, and I do. I
didn't bring that up. Like Ihave hard rules. I'm because
I've worked with people andthey're so good with the diet
and but if they drink too much,just slows it. It goes five
times slower.
Daniel Baden (37:48):
Well theres alot of calories in alcohol. Not that
we're calorie counting. But it'sdoes change on your blood
sugars. Yeah.
Kira Sutherland (37:55):
And then you eat like shit when you? Yeah,
yeah,
Tash (37:58):
right. wasn't a big drinker. I know you were to
Daniel Baden (38:05):
push. I'm so grateful that you were so open
and honest and brave to come on.
And, you know, this is a guideto other people that are just
looking to find a way to helpthemselves. So thank you. My
pleasure.
Tash (38:19):
Thanks for having me.
Daniel Baden (38:22):
People read more, or how did they get in touch
with you?
Kira Sutherland (38:26):
Sure. So I'm probably the easiest where
everybody is on socials. I'm at,at Uber health you b e r h e al
th and if that has been let's beclear, that's been my business
name long before Uber it didn'tbecome the cool man. Cool name
(38:51):
what a great idea. I'm like, No,it was my idea 25 years ago. So
I'm at Uber health. But yeah, mywebsites just my name
kira.sutherland.com.au.
Daniel Baden (39:02):
Fantastic. Okay, well Kira. Also very grateful
for your time. people won't knowthis, but it is way past dinner
time so look, thank you both somuch.
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