August 14, 2023 • 58 mins
All feedback and questions welcome
Something in our environment or food or medical approach is causing the rate of Autism diagnoses to rise sharply. This case study demonstrates the power of a holistic approach which in reality is the only way to tackle such a complicated condition. In this episode we follow the patients improvement from 3 to 16 years old. He has a remarkably wonderful outcome which will make you smile or cry (or perhaps both at the same time). Profound change is possible with a deep understanding.
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Episode Transcript
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Daniel Baden (00:09):
Autism is a hot topic, it's a neurodevelopmental
condition, of variable severity.
Modern medicine sees autism as alifetime incurable condition.
(00:52):
incurable means a lot of things,to a lot of different people and
I'm just wondering if people whoget treated holistically can
actually get through autism, andbe devoid of symptoms, perhaps
technically not a cure, perhapsit is. But at the end of the
day, I've come across patientsthat have seen the naturopath of
(01:13):
the holistic practitioner, andare no longer facing most of the
symptoms of autism. Today, I'mtalking to the lovely Judy
Salmon. Hello, Judy. Hi, Daniel.
Judy is an expert in autism has25 years experience. Today,
she'll be talking about anamazing case of a patient she
(01:35):
saw. Tell us about your patient.
Judy Salmon (01:38):
This is a young boy who came to me just before he
was three, a couple months afterhe had been diagnosed with
autism. And his parents hadfound out about me through a
health food shop, which carriedsome of the books, had written a
book with one of the moms that Ioriginally purchased work with,
(01:59):
mainly around diet andunderlying issues with children
with autism and ADHD. Becauseback then we had to make
everything we had to cook ourown breads, who to everything,
there wasn't anything on themarket like there is today. So
we were doing it to give hope toother families and given recipes
(02:21):
and all that sort of guidanceand a deeper understanding of
some of the issues that we knewway back in the early 2000s.
What was underlying autism. Andthen of course, there's even
more I know, now that that Ieven knew back in those that I
think I worked this worked withthis little boy in 2009. And I
(02:41):
can tell you now have even agreater understanding and even
more underlying things that Ihave to watch for the children
and adults with on the spectrum.
That's been a very big learningjourney with these children of
which this sort of boy has beenone of the big teachers for me
and basically, to anypractitioners or parents or
families or grandparents anyonewho's listening, there is always
(03:05):
hope. And what we're being told,and still are being told all
these years after when I firststarted working with it is
there's not much you can do. AndI can tell you that's not true.
There's a lot that you can do tohelp these children and they are
very, very ill children often.
Daniel Baden (03:25):
Yeah, look that is fascinating. And that's
certainly the experience thatI've seen personally and
certainly talking to colleaguesas well over time. I'm very
interested in the diagnosticcriteria. So the child came to
you with a diagnosis of autism.
Although the diagnosis is notall that clear, because it's not
like you can just draw blood andsay definitively you have or
(03:47):
haven't got autism is a wholelot of diagnostic criteria. I
guess some of the common thingsare reduced eye contact, lack of
response to their nameindifference to the people they
love or around them orcaregivers perhaps things like
intensely focused patterns ofbehaviors what they say and
(04:09):
language skills which are notfully developed or perhaps even
go backwards. Have I missed any
Judy Salmon (04:17):
often not ever been there at all
Daniel Baden (04:19):
or not ever been there at all! Yeah, Have I
missed anything major
Judy Salmon (04:23):
and yeah, there's also a stimming you know, very
sensory overloads hand flappingstimming even odd had children
that had been had head banging.
So there was little caps ontheir head to protect their head
meltdowns, incredible tempertantrums, crying, poor sleep
issues, may go down to sleep andthen wake up at you know,
(04:47):
anywhere between 12 and threefour in the morning squealing
and laughing and going like Iwon't go to sleep till five in
the mornings have guaranteedsleep. So it's a combination of
Have any or all of these, theprobably what they used to be
just mild, moderate and severeback in that time when I first
started working the children nowapparently there's four levels
(05:09):
level one to four, with levelone very mild to four very
severe. So they'll usuallyparents will come in and say,
two three,
Daniel Baden (05:19):
sorry, sorry to interrupt, but does level one or
level four? Is that related tothe number of symptoms that they
have in the scale or theseverity of the symptoms that
they have existing?
Judy Salmon (05:32):
severity. So if you have a child without no eye
contact, no language, absolutelylook unwell, totally in there
own world have meltdowns, allthat sort of things, and even
anger underlying issues likeseizures or things like that,
there would be definitely levelfour, and a mom's level one
(05:52):
would be, we will look at them.
And then we know that they mighthave a bit of language delay, a
little bit of our contact, orcan look at you, but then you
realize they're not respondingto quite appropriately, and then
to ensure everything in between.
As to so it's more the severity.
Daniel Baden (06:13):
And is that what is level one, what we used to
call in the old days highfunctioning,
Judy Salmon (06:17):
yes, some of them not quite as high functioning,
I've found over the years a highfunctioning is back in the early
2000s, early 2000 years, theyusually could give you some
language at not be quitestructure structured or rigid.
So they will, you know, they'dbe more rigid in their thinking
that they'd have, you can seethe head nightshirt, I can go to
(06:38):
school, the more the quirkykids, the ones that you take to
trivia nights with you, becauseI'll read an encyclopedia,
rattle off facts and figures.
But they will have features likeI remember seeing quite a few
talks and lectures back in thoseearly 2000s. But then they would
have said through issues andthey would ask you not to clap,
(06:59):
after they had talked abouttheir journey, because the
sensory issues and hold theirhands. So, you know, sometimes I
would say please don't clap, Ican only handle so much noise, I
can only handle so much people.
So there there would be thatsensory overload happening with
(07:19):
them. But you can still have asort of reasonable conversation
with them, it'd be quitedisjointed. And they could look
to be very broad. By now when Ithink back at university when I
did my science degree. And I cantell you, I probably now realize
a couple of my lecturers were onthe spectrum. Yes, at the time,
(07:42):
but I look back now and go, Oh,now that's a very high
functioning Asperger's typeperson. Nowadays, especially
over the last nine years, theseverity of the children, it's
getting worse and a lot sicker.
Children are coming in now thatwe still have that variety, we
still have a huge spectrum andgame that a lot of work to be
(08:03):
done with these children now.
Daniel Baden (08:07):
Oh, look, it's definitely getting worse. And
I'm really looking forward toour discussion. Because over the
last 10 years, the rate ofautism in Australia and other
western countries has tripled.
And we're talking about morethan that?
Judy Salmon (08:21):
when I started it was like about, well as big as
was probably one in 10,000, ASDwas about one 5000. So we're
talking around 1999 2000. And Iwas just talking to one of my
mom's is with us at all, whatare we up to now? They're always
on. One of my parents is adoctor. Her child is on the
spectrum. And she's saying (08:43):
36
Daniel Baden (08:46):
Wow, okay, because you know, the rights are
different around the world. Andthis is what I'm looking forward
to getting into you a little bitabout because obviously,
something is changing in thechild's environment, diet,
medical schedule, whatever it issomething is is changing. And
(09:09):
there are all sorts of studiesfrom around the world. But we do
know some populations are farmore affected. And I looked at
the World Health Organizationstatistics the other day, and
seems as though many of the Arabcountries, for example, are much
more affected than some othercountries in Europe. So you have
to start to wonder what'shappening, whether it's diet or
(09:31):
relationship to particularmedications, or vaccines or
whatever it is, that's affectingthat. And that's part of the
curiosity for me, but also thediagnostic criteria. Do you
think that's different countryto country? Or is that fairly
standardized? globally? You maynot know the answer to that, but
I'm just wondering if you do.
Judy Salmon (09:50):
Oh, that's a good question. Actually, I think
typically in the Western world,so I have a friend who's a
developmental psychologist, soshe's done a lot of that
diagnosing, and then trained uppediatricians on how to how to
do the diagnosing so then theydo follow a certain criteria
(10:10):
that they have to meet, thenthey can ride with the children
are they I find that a lot ofpediatricians just doing it now.
And so I can't say whetherthey've actually been training,
or whether they're just sayingit now as well. But I must
admit, even if the children comethrough just through a
pediatrician and not through adevelopmental psychologist, you
only have to take one look atthem. And you know that you've
(10:31):
got problems. And then I do alot of countries from Asia,
Asia, now I have a huge Indiancommunity. What because I love
homeopathy. So once I knew I wasa homeopath as well, there are
like flocking to and they once Iwas getting results, so I do
this big Indian community that Ieven do overseas in India, you
know, I do phone consults and,and Bangladesh and Pakistan. And
(10:56):
one of the things that are allin Nepal as well. And one of the
things they say to me is, wenever had this before, why are
we all of a sudden getting it.
So it's massive numbers going onin Asia. But they always said
they never knew about it before,they never really saw before.
Daniel Baden (11:16):
going through this case, we'll explore some of your
thinking around some of thepatterns you've seen, because
they will help us understand.
And often the experience thatthe practitioners at the
coalface is quite different towhat we see published as
clinical studies. And I findthat a curiosity as well. So
that's across every conditionalpiece. Literally. Does the three
year old have a name? FirstName? Lachy.. Okay. So when
(11:40):
Lachy came to see you. He had noeye contact.
Judy Salmon (11:47):
Yeah, it was very poor. And so he was actually an
IVF, baby. But they had fallenpregnant on the second round.
And so this is your important Ifind is to take really good
case, taking and go right backthrough pregnancy, and work your
way through because then you canactually start to go okay,
that's what probably look atthat. That's a possibility. And,
(12:11):
you know, I start to formulatewhere I think things have gone
wrong in do have, as I've said,and learned over the time, and I
say it practitioners that dotalk to me and come to me is you
got to get out of the box towork with these kids. Got to
throw every paradigm that youthink about autism out the
window, and they're observingthese children is number one
(12:34):
priority, and their behavior istheir language to us. So we know
where we're going to go withthese children and what is more
than likely going to beunderlying what's happening with
his children. So I don't see itas good, bad or anything
behavior I watch and observebecause it helps me understand
the underlying issues that I'mgoing to have to deal with
Daniel Baden (12:54):
mom or dad or the caregiver brings the child in to
see you. Yep. Their nonverbal.
Yes, no eye contact. There's noresponse to your questions or
smiles. And and how do youstart?
Judy Salmon (13:10):
Well, like as I start with, you know, what's
going on with him, like,milestones? And why are
straightaway what anything inthat first G was there any
problems like allergies, Xmascolleague projectile vomiting or
anything like that straightaway?
Because that tells me is itproblems going on? Right there
in that very first CI, then Imoved into milestones, of
(13:31):
course, you know, walking,talking, crawling was whether
delays in any of those, thislittle boy, he had had feeding
problems when he was little, hewas born a bit early and joined
us. And it was a littleunderweight when he was two,
that he had all already been puton treating because Mum had gone
into contractions at eightweeks. Before do so we had
(13:53):
steroids going into him, thenfor his lungs in case he was
going to come early. And thenthat settle down. And then he
did come at 38 weeks. But we hadsuckling problems, feeding
problems straightaway. And thenwhen he went on formula and sort
of went quite fine. You walkedat 14 months, but he wasn't
(14:14):
really speaking. There wasn'tmuch language there. He was very
clean. And we'd be with mum,very sensitive, he is a
sensitive, even now as a as anolder boys is quite sensitive.
So you've got that something youneed to really take note of as a
practitioner sensitivity of thechildren as well as Ruth, there
(14:36):
wasn't really it would becleaned to mum, but there was no
affection. When they came to me.
He'd had a couple months ofspeech so he had a couple of
words then started to happen.
But he couldn't like you couldask him things but he had
trouble responding. So hisexpressive side was very poor
and his expressive understandingwas extremely poor, you could
(14:59):
like rope learn the odd words,you know, like this speech or
OT, he would have incrediblemeltdowns and throwing himself
to the floor and he can lash outreally badly.
Daniel Baden (15:14):
But would you say things like meltdowns and head
banging, for example, anexpression of pain or
discomfort? Or do you thinkthere's something else going on
there?
Judy Salmon (15:24):
Yeah, it depends what age they are when they come
in, but definitely a headbanging children. Now I really
know that I've got dietary andgut problems going straight
away. That's not normal. Andthey probably got terrible
migraines. That's why I said youdon't look at it as bad
behavior. Look at it as what areyou trying to tell me. So once
we've sorted through thosethings the head banging goes, we
(15:46):
never have it back again. That'sjust beautiful. Great. Yeah. And
the meltdowns, it can be becausethey are in pain, and they don't
know how to express it all totell the parents, you know, I'm
in pain. So if you imagine it'sgot terrible colic pains, you
know, and you can't say anythingor cry, I can only imagine what
these children going through totell you the truth after
(16:08):
watching him all over theseyears. You know, and frustration
too is human, they're a bitolder is that they can't speak.
So we get a lot of meltdowns andtantrums and things also from
frustration. And that lack ofbeing able to communicate is
also a huge problem as well.
Daniel Baden (16:25):
Often premie babies are put on antibiotics
early. Was this child put onantibiotics as well?
Judy Salmon (16:30):
No, I don't. I hadn't had that written down in
history. We just had thissteroid pre birth.
Daniel Baden (16:36):
And you mentioned that he will put on to formula
was he also breastfed?
Judy Salmon (16:39):
Yes, they did try but he had suckling problems. So
you know that problem. So that'swhy they put him on to formula
Daniel Baden (16:48):
Is suckling a common issue in autism.
Judy Salmon (16:52):
No I haven't found that to be the case.
Occasionally, I get baby's thatare having suckling problems.
But it's not in every case, it'snot something that I hear a lot,
but occasionally, I will hearit. And then they will be put
onto formula. So those childrenwill go on to a formula, or then
you got mums that just come fora speed or whatever. So then the
(17:15):
baby goes on to formula as well,for the baby is screaming,
lactose intolerant or foodintolerance since launch
formula.
Daniel Baden (17:25):
Yeah. And what about sleep? Did that come up as
an issue?
Judy Salmon (17:28):
Well he ended up at one in three months, that three
months he went to daycare, whichyou can push very hard. So even
at that, literally, there was aproblem showing up then. And
then you started to haveconstant cold ear infection. So
there comes the antibiotic,right? Okay. Lots and lots of
antibiotics. And then around oneyear old, he also had a bad
(17:51):
guest, Dr. Infections, gutinfection. And then he had to
have grommets put into his ears.
So surgery and settings. Andthen after that, he ended up
going into really that'sdepression anxiety, terrible,
terrible, clean trees. And hischoose now we're really not
formed and incredibly smelly,and it would vary between mushy
(18:14):
and quite constipated. So afterthat one year, we were already
having problems. But amazingly,his sleep was pretty okay. Yeah,
it isn't. Me had terrible gutstuff and chronic illnesses
going on. straightaway. I waslike, well, good. We had the
early steroid scene, earlyformularies mean, lots of
(18:37):
infections, because he was, youknow, daycare early, anybody so
gut was gone. So straightaway,I'm going gut problems as
definitely health problems. Andin early vaccine, because we
constantly are infections andall that starting from a very
young age as well. But eventhough when he had those sort of
things, he actually was a goodclimber and he's gross motor
(18:59):
skills are quite good, but isfine motor went brain and space
and boundaries was a real issue.
So he couldn't walk into hisspace without using applause. So
therefore very, who would you gonear and play with all that sort
of things were going on? Andthen we had sensitivity so we
(19:21):
had all the sensory issues sonow noise handover is is so the
really harsh noise but he wouldlove music and even love
dancing. And the other big thingwe see with the children coming
around this age is food and dietproblems. So everyone's very
self restricting by now. Andrewdrank milk all day, which is a
(19:43):
clue clue clue that we have beenproblems and the biscuits and
chips and that was it.
Daniel Baden (19:50):
So sugar, salt,fat, carbohydrates, gluten,
dairy. Okay.
Judy Salmon (19:57):
Self restricting self restrict humidity. So we
know we have problems as wellhappening too, because he was
going into sort of restrictionquite severely.
Daniel Baden (20:06):
B ut when you start to look at dietary
changes, I guess you, you, as apractitioner need to take a deep
breath and go. Okay, let's seehow this goes.
Judy Salmon (20:16):
Well, he also does up in cradle cap at birth, and
he had some eczema. So we hadthat already stuff going on as
well. So that was how hepresented to me when he first
came. So there, there will beissues that I had to look at and
work my way through. So I knewstraight away that drinking milk
or dying and just eating wheatproducts was die hard to get. So
(20:38):
we have to take much of Britainvery, very free diet, ASAP. But
of course, parents freak out.
Yes, so that you're going tohear a lot when they're drinking
that much milk. I havediscovered over the years that
you've got to start weaning himbecause it literally is a food
addiction, food addiction. Andwe know from the effects of
(21:00):
gluten, and casein and dairy,that does lead to like opiate
type things. So you're anaddict. And
Daniel Baden (21:10):
that's the same with adults with allergies as
well.
Judy Salmon (21:13):
Yeah, exactly. So we started doing on the gluten
free dairy free diet. And I saidto mom, you know, if we can't
keep track of milk up, learn toswing down with every bit of
water, and just weaned them downto get them off the scent. It's
like an addiction, and I justgot with some other children
previously, the parents thatwent cold turkey Drug Reaction
Daniel Baden (21:40):
How long does it take to wean off milk, if you
water down slowly
Judy Salmon (21:45):
get them off within, you know, about six to
eight weeks. Okay. So once weget down to that halfway mark,
we really start to knock offthat addiction part. And that
sense of smell that they havewill start to decrease. So
they'll just start to go. But weI mean, I've had some superduper
addicted kids over the years.
And that's the way I've got themall off. Without too much stress
(22:07):
for mom and child doing it.
Daniel Baden (22:13):
At the same time, presumably you're offering some
sort of option in food or drink.
Yeah, so
Judy Salmon (22:18):
we give the options of what else we can do. And then
the foods you know, I'm movingacross soon, too. We can say now
I'm gluten free biscuits or downI'm slowly so we'll start with
the biscuits or the charactersfirst, before the break, and
start to just drop thataddiction down, and then start
(22:38):
to introduce gluten free breadsor parents make up stuff
muffins, or we change the wrap.
Daniel Baden (22:45):
So where do you start to see a shift or a change
in the gut? And or the behavior?
Is it the poo their poo startsto become more regular and solid
or something else happen?
Judy Salmon (22:58):
Oh, well, we started with the dot while I
also set up a store result,because that takes a couple of
weeks to get seen. And then acouple of months, I think it was
like just a couple of months orsomething later, we had the
store results in that. And we'llbe done with the diet. And there
was a big difference.
Daniel Baden (23:19):
What are you looking for in a stool analysis?
Judy Salmon (23:23):
That I'll go into in a minute. Because they know
I'll be underlying the kidsthen. So just from the diet
alone, he was a lot calmer. Hewas starting to learn better.
He's starting to repeat words.
And his speech was improving.
His sensory levels were comingdown. And he was more friendly
and interacting and there wasdecreasing tantrums. But that
(23:44):
was just from a diet.
Daniel Baden (23:45):
Was that commented on by parents, teachers.
Judy Salmon (23:49):
Yes. That was by the parents and the speech
therapist. Wonderful. Yep. Andwe never tell her we, you know,
I always make I said parents, wedon't tell the therapists where
to start, because then we get atrue feedback from the
therapist. Great idea. Yeah. Andbecause they'll go, oh, what's
going on? I know what'shappening. All of a sudden, all
(24:13):
their work that they can't seemto get happening, just the
children start to go. So that'show I always say don't tell the
therapist when we're stayingbecause it's not just me saying
the parents and we're alsogetting other feedback from the
therapist as well to confirm theother main thing then we come to
is underlying these children isgoing infection is massive.
(24:36):
Majority. There's a smallpercentage that don't but
they'll have other issues thatwe'll talk about as well. This
little one has had pretty mucheverything that I see under all
children. So that's, as you cansee from the photo, it would
have been wired up at thatsevere more moderate, so this
would be
Daniel Baden (24:53):
for the listeners Judy has sent me a few photos of
Locky when he was three and Ican a bit later and then one
when he was 16. Like a handsomeyoung man.
Judy Salmon (25:06):
Yeah, going fine.
No, very smart, but veryswitched on young. So what we've
found out over the years iswhile I'd started to find out
before I got too lucky came into see me was I started to
understand the effect the gut,as well from other children as
well. So it was a learningprocess I've walked through over
these years. So first, I startedto get the diet, right. Then I
(25:28):
started to see there was Candidaissues. And we started to do
that. And then that was anotherthing, then, then I was hearing
about the gut stuff. So I wentto learn all that and you can
get that tested. And that's beena step by step process over
these years that I've just addedmore and more to my
understanding of what'sunderlying these children and
(25:48):
adults. So we find out there'scertain bacteria that really,
really impact behavior, andeverything about these children.
So that's why I get that tested.
Always now, I can sort of haveguests now what's probably going
to come in in the gut test justfrom experience. So this little
(26:10):
boy had strep and Clostridiumand he's got huge 88% of his gut
was in strep infection, and 53%is Clostridium. We also tested
him up with thick bloods aswell. So he had a little bit of
liver going had inflammatorymarkers, its ferritin level was
30. That we also tested forceliac, but he wasn't celiac,
(26:31):
even though taking him throughthe diet was having huge impact,
but you can have intolerances aswe know that still impact as
bad. So when I saw the strepinfections, now a strep
infection is well number onethat lactic acid producing
bacteria. So we've got a lot ofit's like they're running
marathons all the time. Sothere's like tiredness and
(26:53):
fatigue and low iron becausethey balance also like just a
quest to iron for their owngrowth and development. So that
can explain low iron levelsalong with heavy metals will
also be low on. So with strepinfections we have impacts the
children in their cognition. Sowe have poor focus or memory or
(27:18):
learning. We can have languagedelay. We have sensory issues.
We had high anxiety issues, toOCD and all the way to
Tourette's.
Daniel Baden (27:32):
I also think I read somewhere that is also
associated with phobias andfears.
Judy Salmon (27:37):
yes and so is gluten intolerance. Intolerance?
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So often,when we just get these results,
we look at what we've just wrotedown in the healthiness history
of the notes and narrowed itthen we start that so I treat
the gut infection got I am ahomeopath as well. I decided to
(27:58):
go well, why not try homeopathyusing nosodes. They work
brilliantly. Okay,
Daniel Baden (28:07):
can you explain what it is?
Judy Salmon (28:08):
Nosodes. So it is homeopathy that it's actually
made from the tissue. So I wouldbe giving back homeopathic strep
for infection, or candida forcandida infection, or I got back
Clostridium, for Clostridiuminfection. Like treats like.
Daniel Baden (28:28):
well, and with homeopathy, if you're
prescribing a nosode, the lowerpotencies might be more for more
physical symptoms, and thehigher potencies for more
psychological symptoms. Is thatthe case?
Judy Salmon (28:40):
Yes, sort of, sort of, it's a good way of sort of
thinking about it. So yeah, Iused about 30 C. So I'm also
impacting at the physical butbecause we've got so many, at
the mental and emotional side ofthings, I needed to be touching
that as well. And so that thatseemed to work really quite
well. So it's sometimes I'll godepending occupy treat wounds
(29:02):
with Cena, I'll go to 15 or 12I'll go load for that. More
physical, but when I've gotmore, bigger impact happened to
the children, I've found 30 C,works, and it's still working to
this day. So
Daniel Baden (29:19):
one thing I absolutely love about homeopathy
is, is when you get a rightthere's some a lot of skill
involved in getting it right.
But when you do get a right theresults are so quick.
Judy Salmon (29:29):
Yes, exactly right.
So then I started adding intothen I added in along with the
diet. Then I started treating onthe strip and Clostridium
infections. So then we went tojust six weeks later because I
usually do about every six weekswhen I first start with the kids
to make sure I've got everythingokay. And he had had a little
(29:50):
bit of cough which I treatedhomeopathically with Bella Donna
sort of that quickly and thenwhen they came in November when
we added in the stripping lookAustralian animals, lots more
improvements, better eating morealert, happy, even better sleep,
and they thought he wassleeping. Even better now. And
on sleep problems are also withstroke as well. And now, all the
(30:12):
family and people were noticing,increasing that how much he was
improving. He was like, wow, hewas Wow, his twos were firming.
And coming back to normal smellwas going and he was getting
much more a sense of self. So Iwent, Yeah, we're off and
(30:33):
running.
Daniel Baden (30:37):
What is the sense of self in child like this?
Judy Salmon (30:40):
All of that start looking in the mirror? Like,
who's that in the mirror waythat they wouldn't have cared if
there was a mirror they're allbeen seen before?
Daniel Baden (30:49):
That's amazing.
Yeah, they must. I mean, whenMum walks past or dad walks past
and sees the child all of asudden looking in the mirror,
they must just be shocked.
Judy Salmon (31:00):
Well, they often get shocked by lots of. But
yeah, but I mean, that's that Iknow that part is, is I get
excited when parents come in andsay Are they looking mirror like
they're really checkingthemselves. Fantastic, because
that's normal developmentalphases. So we're switching back
the child back into the normaldevelopmental aspects that went
(31:24):
to sleep poor going to sleepbecause the children are shut
down. For whatever length oftime you buy, reopen them again.
So they they miss out of allthose developmental phases. So
gotta go back and restart them.
So and when they start pointingand imitating or when they
watching, you know that videothey've watched 9 million times
already, but now they'reactually singing and dancing
(31:44):
appropriately with it. Ratherthan squealing at it or just
staring at the video, if Simonsays they'll actually do it.
Those sorts of things is whatwe're looking at.
Daniel Baden (31:57):
Yeah. Well, Judy, you're making me smile.
Judy Salmon (32:03):
A lot at work. And it's my joy.
Daniel Baden (32:06):
Absolutely. Very good. And what else did you test
for in the gut? Anything else?
Judy Salmon (32:12):
No, because that was both. That's what came up. I
mean, the tests that I get done,and I try like Healthscope, back
then and Bioscreen, butBioscreen tend to give me better
result, not paid by any of thesecompanies. Trust me, I just do
my I'm an X research scientists.
So that's been really handy forme, because I only go we bought
really works. And they're notclinically I see works in my
(32:33):
practice, yes, I was able tofine tune down in which groups I
was working for, for whatproducts and testing. So we're
zooming into along there quite,quite for a while. And then we
went through a period where hewas doing great at preschool now
and more word sentences, singingsongs getting stubborn. There,
(32:53):
we went through a stage ofgrinding T's finger up the
night, which was ones and whenwe've got such a high level of
gut infection like he'd had,it's just a reminder to tell
people that especiallypractitioners that might be
listening was the ones we've gotto get those infections down,
whatever else is hidingunderneath their skin start to
(33:14):
appear. So do watch for wounds,because then all of a sudden,
there'll be a change in theirbehavior, like all the sudden
you've got more irritable,grinding cheese, finger up the
nose or den bum, you know, andthen I just treated that
homeopathically. And then we gotthat sorted. So we went along,
and that was all really goingreally, really well. And that
(33:36):
then I will we'll go into theMMR, you know, we'll start a
vaccine reversal sort of thing.
And so I use from Tony Smith,homeopath from the Netherlands,
and it's done in full potency,so 30 C, or 201 M and obtaining
in Homeopathics. Again, and butit's done once a week, just by
(34:00):
jobs, I should do it on a Fridaynight, if they have a reaction,
it's over the weekend, andthey're settling down again by
preschool school, and parentsare home watching. And so then I
can learn to if there's aproblem there as well. So that
just that's just works that Ifound. And so we do one week in
that next week, bottle, twobarrel three bottle port. So
(34:21):
that's what I call one round andI usually do two rounds. Because
I luckily did it with one of mychildren. It didn't do any
reactions in the first round,but when we run into the second
round, then we had bigreactions. So I would have
missed it if I just got all thatset. So I always do two rounds
now all the time to make sure Idon't miss any children at all.
Daniel Baden (34:43):
I find the whole vaccine and autism situation
fascinating because if you lookat pretty much all the current
studies, they will say there'sno relationship whatsoever.
However you speak to anypractitioner and they say well,
or any mother and, they'll say,you know, he was getting along
(35:03):
fine until he had whatevervaccine it was and things
changed. And that change may beas subtle as a sledgehammer for
some kids, or it may just bereally subtle and just change
over time. And I'm justwondering if you have any
thoughts around that?
Judy Salmon (35:18):
Yeah, I've seen different ???, especially now
with the amount of experienceand all the different types of
kids that I've had. So I've seensome that, you know, they're
really not showing a lot by oneyear, then I know that those
scenes are having very subtlebuild up, cumulative effects.
And then then when they havethat MMR one year just worsens
(35:41):
it. So it looks like, but whenyou do their history, you
actually see all their going,they've been going all the way
the parents just didn't realizeit's a first child, I wonder
Daniel Baden (35:50):
if this is just speculation, if the vaccine has
different impact on differentpopulations based on their genes
or their diet, so the country ofwhere the study is done, on
whether the vaccines have animpact or not, will strongly
relate to what the geneticbackground of those people is.
(36:12):
Because we know from othervaccines, studies and other
medical studies, so manydifferent people react to so
many different things fromdifferent backgrounds. And
they're often not looked at inthe research.
Judy Salmon (36:24):
Because there's still really no research because
vaccines are safe and effective.
So if you dont look you don'tfind evidence. So as I say to
people, and lead again, what'schanged in the last 20 years is
also the amount of vaccines thatare given has increased hugely.
I mean, even at that two for sixmonth one infinex hechsher is
16. One, but we have no ideawhat the synergy that vaccine
(36:47):
alone, and you there have had areaction to which part of it?
are they reacting? Or is it tothe whole of that infinex hexa.
And then they're also given hepB. And then they've got
rotavirus, and then they've gothip and you know, on and on. So
what is it 19 By six months now,I have to read the schedule
every year to check what whatelse I added. It's not
(37:11):
listening, it's every year, atleast one more will be added in.
And I think it's reallyimportant for you know, my major
as a scientist, immunologymajor, a baby's immune system
doesn't even kick in till six tonine months, if everything is
going well. All they have tostart with is their IGA at the
(37:31):
mucosal as a protection and thenmom's colostrum at three days or
two to three days whenever itcomes in gives all the immune
kickstart factors to start theimmune system kick starting and
going. And then that humoralsystem where you make antibodies
doesn't really kick in tillseven to nine months or so how
(37:55):
can you make antibodies at allsix 810 1214 1516 way? So this
is this is addressed to me as animmunology major, I just shaved
my head and got what textbooksthat everybody else read.
Daniel Baden (38:13):
If a mother is not able to breastfeed for any
reason, how do you manage tomaintain that child's immune
system if they're not gettingthe same level of
immunoglobulins?
Judy Salmon (38:24):
That's one of the questions I always ask them, you
know, did they breastfeed enoughto get the colostrum into the
child, which luckily, most ofthe times they have. So it's
usually they'll breastfeed foryou know, 3,4,6, 12 weeks
sometimes, and then other thanor else they'll be breastfeeding
all the way through. So thankgoodness, it seems like most
(38:45):
have got at least a colostrum.
So the immune activating factorsthat they need, are in there,
then the immune system is goingto then start maturing and
growing through time and whatare we hitting within the most
vulnerable time of six 812weeks, and they've got all this
other other other toxic stuff inthere as well. I mean, I
(39:07):
remember when I was doing my bigresearch on it years ago, I was
reading vaccine journals. Now Iknow I was a scientist,
researcher, because I could readthe journal. And they would say
in these journals, vaccinejournals, you know, there was
saying, we know a baby's immunesystem is immature. So we have
(39:27):
to find we have to add irritantsto the vaccine.
Daniel Baden (39:33):
adjuvants,
Judy Salmon (39:34):
adjuvant xiP that irritate us. Yeah, that irritate
that irritate, so we're causinginflammation
Daniel Baden (39:42):
to make the immune system more reactive,
Judy Salmon (39:44):
when it can't be because they don't have the
right things to the antibodiesyet. We've got that happening as
well in
Daniel Baden (39:53):
and do you look at any other sort of probiotic
supplements or any othersupplements at all?
Judy Salmon (39:58):
The one good thing with that with bioscreens You
know, these and withHealthscope. and now with
Nutripath and all the rest isyou can actually see the right
bacteria as well. So andsometimes we have way too high
levels of bifida. So if I gavethem a normal childhood
probiotics would be aggravateduation as well, because too much
beer for them can causeproblems, fatty acid metabolism
(40:20):
and lactic acid producing. Soyou can actually aggravate by
thinking and doing the rightthing, as well. So that's the
other reason I like the test isand I can get very specific in,
in the type of probiotics I get,and also back back in when I was
doing Lachy, because he had suchhigh stress. And there was a
couple of brands on the marketthat had like, even though it
(40:40):
was supposedly normal strict,who would aggravate those
people. And I started in myadults as well, you know, taking
it, I had everything but thekitchen sink in this particular
profile. So and they wereactually getting worse. And then
when I said bring it in, let melook. And I saw that the
stripping says we stopped, thenthey were okay. So, you know,
(41:01):
you've even got to startbalancing out at that level,
because there's a reallychronically ill people, and kids
and adults to that, you know,and it helped me understand
right across the chronic board,ADHD, chronic fatigue,
rheumatoid arthritis, you nameit, it's a, it's a template that
I've been able to adaptaccordingly right across now.
Daniel Baden (41:22):
You know, one of the things that I've noticed and
I've been, you can tell me ifyou have as well, is that some
kids have a sensitivity to anumber of different supplements
and medication. What do youthink's going on there?
Judy Salmon (41:33):
Well, I think some people just highly sensitive, I
think it's a part of who theyare in a highly sensitive, I
started reacting to everything.
So that was one of the reasonsof pushing me to alternative
medicine myself, because I'mquite empathic. I'm highly
sensitive. And so I think that'spart of, you know, looking at
everyone holistically andindividually, because some
people you can, you can bumpover their head with herbs, five
(41:54):
bills three times a day, wherethat would just wipe me out.
That's the art I think of ourprofession, too, is seeing going
something different. I do dropsonly a couple of time and and
then others, you can hit harder
Daniel Baden (42:12):
Specifically with the autistic child, is there an
increase sensitivity, do youthink,
Judy Salmon (42:18):
again, I find some I can put in two or three
remedies all at once. And I'llstart with one only, and then
slowly build them up, build themup. And then I can add in some
extra things yet, and they'lldefinitely got children that
can't do certain supplements. Ihave Asperger adult that could
only do certain supplements. Andthen before we can do anything
(42:42):
else, so you had to admit yougotta get really flexible, and
adaptable. And as I send myparents, I follow the children.
They always show me like, Okay,do this something else coming
up. Now you got to sort out.
Daniel Baden (42:57):
So your expertise is strengthening, I guess, in
being able to read the unusualset of symptoms that they
present to you. They can't tellyou what they're feeling. So
you're getting really good atlooking at the body language,
and behavioral patterns. Yes. Isthat something you can only
learn from experience? Or is itsomething you can teach? I've
(43:20):
sort of
Judy Salmon (43:21):
tried to teach some people like look in their eyes,
and you can tell whether they'reactually withdrawn or whether
they're not even in their body.
But it was seemed to work thatones I thought, I don't know how
to teach this, I think, probablya gift I have, because I am an
empath, you so I think, youknow, I've got that extra gift.
Now I understand why I haven't,I think also trained up as a
homeopath because we're tryingto observe and see more than
(43:44):
just a physical symptom. We'retrying to look at the emotional
mental, every aspect. So I thinkbeing trained as a homeopath
helped in your early days, aswell, because I would watch
third, you know, because wetrade babies for colic and
teething and they can't tell usthen so we're watching. Are you
watching back? Are you doingthis to get your red cheeks or
(44:05):
not? And then add helps us workout the remedies. So again, it's
very using observation. And Ithink that's really important
role and understanding thattheir behavior is their
language,
Daniel Baden (44:17):
you also have a good look at the blood
chemistry. I know there arevarious studies out there
talking about the role ofinflammation in these conditions
in autism, and particularlyaround say, interleukin eight or
tumor necrosis factor alpha, andprobably a whole host of others
as well. Is that something thatyou would consider?
Judy Salmon (44:37):
I do a certain amount of blood work but I don't
get caught up at that level.
Because that is actually goingright down the medical model and
you're only seeing one mine andand yes, I mean if they've got
got problems going on andthey've got dietary issues and
their reaction, their immunesystem is off. Of course they're
going to have inflammatorymarkers and they're going to
have all that you can get lostIn those sort of results, and
(45:00):
indeed, to take that 40,000 footview and take a step back,
they're going to beinflammatory, they're going to
be this, they're going to bethat they're going to have these
markers. I mean, parents comeinto me and have done lots of
testing and I will have thatlook through. But doesn't really
tell me anything more than Ialready know.
Daniel Baden (45:22):
Would it be considered useful if you're
trying to assess if your diet isworking in terms of
inflammation? Or those areas?
Are you going purely offsymptoms there?
Judy Salmon (45:32):
If I think it's like your dietary problems, I'll
get the food intolerance testdone. so yeah, I do a certain
blood test to start with, so Iwill usually send them off. It
depends on the age. If they'reonly like two I don't do a food
intolerance and especially ifthey're self restrictive, I
already know what they've gotproblems with. So I just got to
work on that. If they're older,I will get food intolerance
(45:55):
testing done. So then I canactually help them put the diet
the right diet to get them tothat particular childhood
person, because what reacts inone person does not always
reaction another person, so yougot to individualize there. And
then I get a full blood countdone. I get iron studies done. I
get biochem done, I get copper,zinc, baichwal, folate, vitamin
(46:17):
D, thyroid, and that within thestool tests and the food I can
usually make up I usually knowthem pretty much what's going on
and what I'm dealing
Daniel Baden (46:26):
with Locky, what would is typical diet look like
now or after you'd had a fewsessions with him and his
parents. What would hisbreakfast lunch and dinner look
like?
Judy Salmon (46:38):
Oh, okay, so Well, when he's good. He really
offered gluten. But once he gotoff the milk, he's he's never
really been a big milk personever. And that's what we find
those parents go over? Well,they'll want it again. But I
don't find that. It's like theyknow now. It's like that. Yeah,
you know, that's, that makes mefeel terrible. So when he
(47:00):
succumbs This is how we knewthat he really had a gluten in
problems like and when he wentto school, of course, then you
tend to have lowly things,especially when you know, when
he got a bit older, like aboutgirl in high school, he went
quite off again. And they said Ineed to go see Judy. And then I
(47:21):
was like, oh, okay, you'rereally and because I'm on
Facebook with him. I can seewhat he was eating, where he was
going in
Daniel Baden (47:29):
theres no hiding with social media.
Judy Salmon (47:35):
So I already had a pretty good clue
So yeah, so we pulled him backoff all gluten and that's where
and he was dying to get highanxiety again, and coming pain
and not sleeping well. And yeah,bit phobia type thing. So we got
(47:57):
we hadn't done his daughter'sfor a long time. I just thought
I would just double check. Wegot everything right. So we did
that as well. But we got himstraightaway on the job, again,
a bit of a chore from me. So I'mthe one who has to do the bad
cop. So he went okay, he woulddo it. So that that did. That
(48:20):
was some strip stories got so Istarted I retreated that and
then we're going more slowly.
Daniel Baden (48:25):
So overall, do you find that moving kids with
autism to anti inflammatory sortof diet more fruit vegetables,
the most agreeable sort of diet?
And do you recommend me to orprotein of any sort as well?
Judy Salmon (48:43):
I said, Yeah, because I see some Asians so
that some of them arevegetarian. So I, I actually
have learned also especiallywith my overseas just say stick
to your real diet. Because thatis genetic. They've got a
genetic patent, that's a giantso I go for goodness sake, keep
up Augustyn and stay with you.
And I must admit, families fromIndia, those children actually
(49:06):
eat a lot better, even thoughthey're still gonna be quite
autistic as well. And they gotlots of anti inflammatories
going in all the herbs andspices. Again, you're still
gonna get to that realunderlying cause of what's
what's causing all that
Daniel Baden (49:22):
and how do you work with the parents and the
family because it's a big job tomake so many changes to a child
affected by autism. How do yourally the parents and the
brothers and sisters
Judy Salmon (49:35):
look I just say to him, you know, let's just start
so do we usually start throughweaning processes and slowly
letting the cupboard go Barrowcertain products and then slowly
replacing him with either glutenfree or dairy free product? So I
usually have a list ofalternative clouds grains,
everything that usually okay, orif they're over I've done food
(49:56):
intolerance. I know exactly.
They might say okay, we've gotthere. Okay, this is And then
not okay, this and once I seeall the all the things are gone
the okay lose is usually biggerthan the ones that got to avoid
that helps them as well. But shewent on during my ADHD kit, we
go through and they go, can Iget that go? No, but you can
have this, oh, I can I can havethat. So that might start to
make it easier reading labels, Ijust got to remind her and you
(50:19):
know, just take your time duringyour first shop, as certain
things go out, then then whenyou go next shopping, then look
for alternative. So they're notdoing an r&b kit. I mean, some
do, they'll just go for broad.
Others, it's too overwhelmingand I go, it's okay, we can only
do the best we can do the kneeI've learned is keeping Charles
(50:39):
dressed very in mom's dressvery, equals good success. And
that's really crucial. So Ialways say to my mom's right,
your game plan out, I don'texpect miracles, we're still
going to get things happeningbecause I'm addressing the other
underlying issues going on. Isaid, I need you to be stressed
very, because children pick upthe stress levels, so they know
(51:02):
that you're all stressed aboutit, then you won't get them off
that food. And if you just doall the mums that used to be oh,
well, whatever those kids wouldjust go is easy peasy would
adapt over. So it really comesdown to how wavy mom is. So I
really gotta calm mom's down.
Give me a ring if you need a bitof this alright? Or not all
right, or, you know, send me atext went over and something and
(51:26):
I'll tell you yea or nay. Soyou've got to be prepared as a
practitioner, that for thosefirst, good three months, you go
put a bit of extra effort tohelp them get through because
once they get through it,they're often going, then you
can sit back, okay. And it'seasy for all of us. It's hard
work, I have to admit, I mean,I've got it down to good art
now, because of your practicethat I remember in those Oh,
(51:48):
yeas, it was hard work.
Daniel Baden (51:52):
But I guess nothing motivates parents and
siblings as seeing results.
Judy Salmon (51:56):
Exactly. Yeah. And then when they start to see
everything heading in the rightdirection, where everything's
been going wrong for so long.
But then again, I've had alsosome families or not so much
now, but in the early days, andthey wouldn't turn up the
console, and they got tortured,even though the child was
showing signs are gettingbetter. I don't find that as
much. Or maybe I'll just attractfamilies that are really ready
(52:20):
to do the big work now.
Daniel Baden (52:23):
Yeah, yeah, I've seen that myself, you saw Lachy
when he was three went throughsome changes, at what point? You
know, how was he at five andseven and 10 Just off the top of
your head?
Judy Salmon (52:35):
Well, when we started all the vaccines, and
then we had some huge, hugechanges, you know, then he
Daniel Baden (52:41):
so when you say the vaccine; the vaccine detox,
realized,
Judy Salmon (52:46):
reversals, undo damage that was so so that would
have been about nine months,9-10 months after I first
started treating him so it waspicked up and was playing and
all of the things then westarted with the MMR and then we
went in to really be playingimaginary games lot to pretend
(53:07):
playing seen whole songs andhappy to go to therapy was doing
really well at therapists lovedhim hit out every now and then.
But it was more frustration,awareness, language expressions,
social skills improved, to havea little bit of sensory to go
through, that was all improving.
And then you went into moreritualistic behavior. And then I
(53:28):
went on to hair, a hairanalysis. So I did even a little
bit backwards to what I do. Nowthat was part of my learning.
You know, that is you do middlesfirst and then go into vaccines.
So that did because it had sucha change it you know, we were
seeing this incredible flowhappening. And then all of a
(53:49):
sudden the chain is like we hita brick wall and something else.
Okay, so now it's veryritualistic, which is bought
usually mentally, you know,metals can be quite like that.
So and so we did a hair analysison that. So we had to know Him
IN YOU MUST income and it wasreally, really high. And it's
been I started in on detoxing.
Bismuth heavy metal. So thenthat I actually now with the
(54:13):
herbs in can you hurt. So justdo leaf and root, protect the
kidneys and the liver becausewe're detoxing heavy metals down
in the body. And then I just getthat once a week now you should
do the metals at a dose of 200.
C
Daniel Baden (54:26):
casting forward in years. Lachy he's now 16 I
think. Yep. How's the last fewyears of his life being here as
a teenager?
Judy Salmon (54:36):
Oh, well. I mean, every now and then as a teen
especially with the last coupleyears anxiety, but that's more
not what was causing all thisstuff before. It's just a
teenager in this crazy worldthat we're in at the moment and
all that unknowns and I thinkthe biggest issue that we've had
(54:56):
to talk about is all this genderstuff. going on with them really
confusing the kids. And I saidyou may you know, it's hung up
in a teenager years ago withoutadding all this to the picture
as well. So if you talk himthrough all that, he's very
healthy plays cricket sport,loves it
Daniel Baden (55:18):
good social network?
Judy Salmon (55:21):
He's got all his friends that he's had since
primary school Plus, you've nowgot a different high school. So
some of these primates have goneoff to other high schools. So he
went into a brand new highschool on his own, with no
backup there. So you handled itreally well.
Daniel Baden (55:37):
Amazing. For all intents and purposes, he is in
inverted commas. Normal.
Judy Salmon (55:43):
Yeah. You would never ever, ever know, at all.
Daniel Baden (55:50):
And finally, is it ever too late to treat autism?
If you will see all this patientyou've seen?
Judy Salmon (55:56):
I've done into the 20s. And I've just got a new one
at the moment. And you I'm justwaiting for his results. He's
26. Is it ever too late now?
It's not too late at all. TheNether fallacy that's still out
there and has been for us isthat you got to have done by
five or four or something, orelse it's too late. No, no, I do
kids, you know, 567 1112 13,whatever age they come in, and
(56:16):
like you will get slower andmore work to do because of debin
shut down that longer period oftime. But they're all but you
can do you know so much. They'rehealthy and happy. Living life,
you know, hadn't even been ableto really do.
Daniel Baden (56:33):
You know, the one thing I've known as a
naturopath, myself is and I haveenormous respect for is the
human body and its ability tobounce back at any stage. It is
constantly finding ways toimprove and with a bit of help,
it's just amazing.
Judy Salmon (56:51):
Yes, that's right.
And there is so much to do. AndI mean, I've used these
templates, you know, I workedwith kids with Down syndrome of
genetic conditions or do ADHD,sensory auditory processing all
there is if you just go findthose underlying issues and
renew them. Amazing thing.
Daniel Baden (57:13):
You kept me smiling the whole interview
because I just love to see theimprovement that Locky had, it
was just gorgeous. Thank you,Judy, how do people get in touch
Judy S (57:22):
Judth.salmon@bigpond.com with you?
Danie (57:24):
Judith.salmon@bigpond.com Right. Wonderful. Well, you are
amazing. Thank you. And thankyou for
Judy Salmon (57:37):
I love giving hope to people and also getting the
truth out there. There's so muchyou can do.
Daniel Baden (57:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
There is and what a lovelystory. So thank you so much. And
hope to speak to you again.
Judy Salmon (57:50):
Okay,
Autism is a hot topic, it's a neurodevelopmental
condition, of variable severity.
Modern medicine sees autism as alifetime incurable condition.
(00:52):
incurable means a lot of things,to a lot of different people and
I'm just wondering if people whoget treated holistically can
actually get through autism, andbe devoid of symptoms, perhaps
technically not a cure, perhapsit is. But at the end of the
day, I've come across patientsthat have seen the naturopath of
(01:13):
the holistic practitioner, andare no longer facing most of the
symptoms of autism. Today, I'mtalking to the lovely Judy
Salmon. Hello, Judy. Hi, Daniel.
Judy is an expert in autism has25 years experience. Today,
she'll be talking about anamazing case of a patient she
(01:35):
saw. Tell us about your patient.
Judy Salmon (01:38):
This is a young boy who came to me just before he
was three, a couple months afterhe had been diagnosed with
autism. And his parents hadfound out about me through a
health food shop, which carriedsome of the books, had written a
book with one of the moms that Ioriginally purchased work with,
(01:59):
mainly around diet andunderlying issues with children
with autism and ADHD. Becauseback then we had to make
everything we had to cook ourown breads, who to everything,
there wasn't anything on themarket like there is today. So
we were doing it to give hope toother families and given recipes
(02:21):
and all that sort of guidanceand a deeper understanding of
some of the issues that we knewway back in the early 2000s.
What was underlying autism. Andthen of course, there's even
more I know, now that that Ieven knew back in those that I
think I worked this worked withthis little boy in 2009. And I
(02:41):
can tell you now have even agreater understanding and even
more underlying things that Ihave to watch for the children
and adults with on the spectrum.
That's been a very big learningjourney with these children of
which this sort of boy has beenone of the big teachers for me
and basically, to anypractitioners or parents or
families or grandparents anyonewho's listening, there is always
(03:05):
hope. And what we're being told,and still are being told all
these years after when I firststarted working with it is
there's not much you can do. AndI can tell you that's not true.
There's a lot that you can do tohelp these children and they are
very, very ill children often.
Daniel Baden (03:25):
Yeah, look that is fascinating. And that's
certainly the experience thatI've seen personally and
certainly talking to colleaguesas well over time. I'm very
interested in the diagnosticcriteria. So the child came to
you with a diagnosis of autism.
Although the diagnosis is notall that clear, because it's not
like you can just draw blood andsay definitively you have or
(03:47):
haven't got autism is a wholelot of diagnostic criteria. I
guess some of the common thingsare reduced eye contact, lack of
response to their nameindifference to the people they
love or around them orcaregivers perhaps things like
intensely focused patterns ofbehaviors what they say and
(04:09):
language skills which are notfully developed or perhaps even
go backwards. Have I missed any
Judy Salmon (04:17):
often not ever been there at all
Daniel Baden (04:19):
or not ever been there at all! Yeah, Have I
missed anything major
Judy Salmon (04:23):
and yeah, there's also a stimming you know, very
sensory overloads hand flappingstimming even odd had children
that had been had head banging.
So there was little caps ontheir head to protect their head
meltdowns, incredible tempertantrums, crying, poor sleep
issues, may go down to sleep andthen wake up at you know,
(04:47):
anywhere between 12 and threefour in the morning squealing
and laughing and going like Iwon't go to sleep till five in
the mornings have guaranteedsleep. So it's a combination of
Have any or all of these, theprobably what they used to be
just mild, moderate and severeback in that time when I first
started working the children nowapparently there's four levels
(05:09):
level one to four, with levelone very mild to four very
severe. So they'll usuallyparents will come in and say,
two three,
Daniel Baden (05:19):
sorry, sorry to interrupt, but does level one or
level four? Is that related tothe number of symptoms that they
have in the scale or theseverity of the symptoms that
they have existing?
Judy Salmon (05:32):
severity. So if you have a child without no eye
contact, no language, absolutelylook unwell, totally in there
own world have meltdowns, allthat sort of things, and even
anger underlying issues likeseizures or things like that,
there would be definitely levelfour, and a mom's level one
(05:52):
would be, we will look at them.
And then we know that they mighthave a bit of language delay, a
little bit of our contact, orcan look at you, but then you
realize they're not respondingto quite appropriately, and then
to ensure everything in between.
As to so it's more the severity.
Daniel Baden (06:13):
And is that what is level one, what we used to
call in the old days highfunctioning,
Judy Salmon (06:17):
yes, some of them not quite as high functioning,
I've found over the years a highfunctioning is back in the early
2000s, early 2000 years, theyusually could give you some
language at not be quitestructure structured or rigid.
So they will, you know, they'dbe more rigid in their thinking
that they'd have, you can seethe head nightshirt, I can go to
(06:38):
school, the more the quirkykids, the ones that you take to
trivia nights with you, becauseI'll read an encyclopedia,
rattle off facts and figures.
But they will have features likeI remember seeing quite a few
talks and lectures back in thoseearly 2000s. But then they would
have said through issues andthey would ask you not to clap,
(06:59):
after they had talked abouttheir journey, because the
sensory issues and hold theirhands. So, you know, sometimes I
would say please don't clap, Ican only handle so much noise, I
can only handle so much people.
So there there would be thatsensory overload happening with
(07:19):
them. But you can still have asort of reasonable conversation
with them, it'd be quitedisjointed. And they could look
to be very broad. By now when Ithink back at university when I
did my science degree. And I cantell you, I probably now realize
a couple of my lecturers were onthe spectrum. Yes, at the time,
(07:42):
but I look back now and go, Oh,now that's a very high
functioning Asperger's typeperson. Nowadays, especially
over the last nine years, theseverity of the children, it's
getting worse and a lot sicker.
Children are coming in now thatwe still have that variety, we
still have a huge spectrum andgame that a lot of work to be
(08:03):
done with these children now.
Daniel Baden (08:07):
Oh, look, it's definitely getting worse. And
I'm really looking forward toour discussion. Because over the
last 10 years, the rate ofautism in Australia and other
western countries has tripled.
And we're talking about morethan that?
Judy Salmon (08:21):
when I started it was like about, well as big as
was probably one in 10,000, ASDwas about one 5000. So we're
talking around 1999 2000. And Iwas just talking to one of my
mom's is with us at all, whatare we up to now? They're always
on. One of my parents is adoctor. Her child is on the
spectrum. And she's saying (08:43):
36
Daniel Baden (08:46):
Wow, okay, because you know, the rights are
different around the world. Andthis is what I'm looking forward
to getting into you a little bitabout because obviously,
something is changing in thechild's environment, diet,
medical schedule, whatever it issomething is is changing. And
(09:09):
there are all sorts of studiesfrom around the world. But we do
know some populations are farmore affected. And I looked at
the World Health Organizationstatistics the other day, and
seems as though many of the Arabcountries, for example, are much
more affected than some othercountries in Europe. So you have
to start to wonder what'shappening, whether it's diet or
(09:31):
relationship to particularmedications, or vaccines or
whatever it is, that's affectingthat. And that's part of the
curiosity for me, but also thediagnostic criteria. Do you
think that's different countryto country? Or is that fairly
standardized? globally? You maynot know the answer to that, but
I'm just wondering if you do.
Judy Salmon (09:50):
Oh, that's a good question. Actually, I think
typically in the Western world,so I have a friend who's a
developmental psychologist, soshe's done a lot of that
diagnosing, and then trained uppediatricians on how to how to
do the diagnosing so then theydo follow a certain criteria
(10:10):
that they have to meet, thenthey can ride with the children
are they I find that a lot ofpediatricians just doing it now.
And so I can't say whetherthey've actually been training,
or whether they're just sayingit now as well. But I must
admit, even if the children comethrough just through a
pediatrician and not through adevelopmental psychologist, you
only have to take one look atthem. And you know that you've
(10:31):
got problems. And then I do alot of countries from Asia,
Asia, now I have a huge Indiancommunity. What because I love
homeopathy. So once I knew I wasa homeopath as well, there are
like flocking to and they once Iwas getting results, so I do
this big Indian community that Ieven do overseas in India, you
know, I do phone consults and,and Bangladesh and Pakistan. And
(10:56):
one of the things that are allin Nepal as well. And one of the
things they say to me is, wenever had this before, why are
we all of a sudden getting it.
So it's massive numbers going onin Asia. But they always said
they never knew about it before,they never really saw before.
Daniel Baden (11:16):
going through this case, we'll explore some of your
thinking around some of thepatterns you've seen, because
they will help us understand.
And often the experience thatthe practitioners at the
coalface is quite different towhat we see published as
clinical studies. And I findthat a curiosity as well. So
that's across every conditionalpiece. Literally. Does the three
year old have a name? FirstName? Lachy.. Okay. So when
(11:40):
Lachy came to see you. He had noeye contact.
Judy Salmon (11:47):
Yeah, it was very poor. And so he was actually an
IVF, baby. But they had fallenpregnant on the second round.
And so this is your important Ifind is to take really good
case, taking and go right backthrough pregnancy, and work your
way through because then you canactually start to go okay,
that's what probably look atthat. That's a possibility. And,
(12:11):
you know, I start to formulatewhere I think things have gone
wrong in do have, as I've said,and learned over the time, and I
say it practitioners that dotalk to me and come to me is you
got to get out of the box towork with these kids. Got to
throw every paradigm that youthink about autism out the
window, and they're observingthese children is number one
(12:34):
priority, and their behavior istheir language to us. So we know
where we're going to go withthese children and what is more
than likely going to beunderlying what's happening with
his children. So I don't see itas good, bad or anything
behavior I watch and observebecause it helps me understand
the underlying issues that I'mgoing to have to deal with
Daniel Baden (12:54):
mom or dad or the caregiver brings the child in to
see you. Yep. Their nonverbal.
Yes, no eye contact. There's noresponse to your questions or
smiles. And and how do youstart?
Judy Salmon (13:10):
Well, like as I start with, you know, what's
going on with him, like,milestones? And why are
straightaway what anything inthat first G was there any
problems like allergies, Xmascolleague projectile vomiting or
anything like that straightaway?
Because that tells me is itproblems going on? Right there
in that very first CI, then Imoved into milestones, of
(13:31):
course, you know, walking,talking, crawling was whether
delays in any of those, thislittle boy, he had had feeding
problems when he was little, hewas born a bit early and joined
us. And it was a littleunderweight when he was two,
that he had all already been puton treating because Mum had gone
into contractions at eightweeks. Before do so we had
(13:53):
steroids going into him, thenfor his lungs in case he was
going to come early. And thenthat settle down. And then he
did come at 38 weeks. But we hadsuckling problems, feeding
problems straightaway. And thenwhen he went on formula and sort
of went quite fine. You walkedat 14 months, but he wasn't
(14:14):
really speaking. There wasn'tmuch language there. He was very
clean. And we'd be with mum,very sensitive, he is a
sensitive, even now as a as anolder boys is quite sensitive.
So you've got that something youneed to really take note of as a
practitioner sensitivity of thechildren as well as Ruth, there
(14:36):
wasn't really it would becleaned to mum, but there was no
affection. When they came to me.
He'd had a couple months ofspeech so he had a couple of
words then started to happen.
But he couldn't like you couldask him things but he had
trouble responding. So hisexpressive side was very poor
and his expressive understandingwas extremely poor, you could
(14:59):
like rope learn the odd words,you know, like this speech or
OT, he would have incrediblemeltdowns and throwing himself
to the floor and he can lash outreally badly.
Daniel Baden (15:14):
But would you say things like meltdowns and head
banging, for example, anexpression of pain or
discomfort? Or do you thinkthere's something else going on
there?
Judy Salmon (15:24):
Yeah, it depends what age they are when they come
in, but definitely a headbanging children. Now I really
know that I've got dietary andgut problems going straight
away. That's not normal. Andthey probably got terrible
migraines. That's why I said youdon't look at it as bad
behavior. Look at it as what areyou trying to tell me. So once
we've sorted through thosethings the head banging goes, we
(15:46):
never have it back again. That'sjust beautiful. Great. Yeah. And
the meltdowns, it can be becausethey are in pain, and they don't
know how to express it all totell the parents, you know, I'm
in pain. So if you imagine it'sgot terrible colic pains, you
know, and you can't say anythingor cry, I can only imagine what
these children going through totell you the truth after
(16:08):
watching him all over theseyears. You know, and frustration
too is human, they're a bitolder is that they can't speak.
So we get a lot of meltdowns andtantrums and things also from
frustration. And that lack ofbeing able to communicate is
also a huge problem as well.
Daniel Baden (16:25):
Often premie babies are put on antibiotics
early. Was this child put onantibiotics as well?
Judy Salmon (16:30):
No, I don't. I hadn't had that written down in
history. We just had thissteroid pre birth.
Daniel Baden (16:36):
And you mentioned that he will put on to formula
was he also breastfed?
Judy Salmon (16:39):
Yes, they did try but he had suckling problems. So
you know that problem. So that'swhy they put him on to formula
Daniel Baden (16:48):
Is suckling a common issue in autism.
Judy Salmon (16:52):
No I haven't found that to be the case.
Occasionally, I get baby's thatare having suckling problems.
But it's not in every case, it'snot something that I hear a lot,
but occasionally, I will hearit. And then they will be put
onto formula. So those childrenwill go on to a formula, or then
you got mums that just come fora speed or whatever. So then the
(17:15):
baby goes on to formula as well,for the baby is screaming,
lactose intolerant or foodintolerance since launch
formula.
Daniel Baden (17:25):
Yeah. And what about sleep? Did that come up as
an issue?
Judy Salmon (17:28):
Well he ended up at one in three months, that three
months he went to daycare, whichyou can push very hard. So even
at that, literally, there was aproblem showing up then. And
then you started to haveconstant cold ear infection. So
there comes the antibiotic,right? Okay. Lots and lots of
antibiotics. And then around oneyear old, he also had a bad
(17:51):
guest, Dr. Infections, gutinfection. And then he had to
have grommets put into his ears.
So surgery and settings. Andthen after that, he ended up
going into really that'sdepression anxiety, terrible,
terrible, clean trees. And hischoose now we're really not
formed and incredibly smelly,and it would vary between mushy
(18:14):
and quite constipated. So afterthat one year, we were already
having problems. But amazingly,his sleep was pretty okay. Yeah,
it isn't. Me had terrible gutstuff and chronic illnesses
going on. straightaway. I waslike, well, good. We had the
early steroid scene, earlyformularies mean, lots of
(18:37):
infections, because he was, youknow, daycare early, anybody so
gut was gone. So straightaway,I'm going gut problems as
definitely health problems. Andin early vaccine, because we
constantly are infections andall that starting from a very
young age as well. But eventhough when he had those sort of
things, he actually was a goodclimber and he's gross motor
(18:59):
skills are quite good, but isfine motor went brain and space
and boundaries was a real issue.
So he couldn't walk into hisspace without using applause. So
therefore very, who would you gonear and play with all that sort
of things were going on? Andthen we had sensitivity so we
(19:21):
had all the sensory issues sonow noise handover is is so the
really harsh noise but he wouldlove music and even love
dancing. And the other big thingwe see with the children coming
around this age is food and dietproblems. So everyone's very
self restricting by now. Andrewdrank milk all day, which is a
(19:43):
clue clue clue that we have beenproblems and the biscuits and
chips and that was it.
Daniel Baden (19:50):
So sugar, salt,fat, carbohydrates, gluten,
dairy. Okay.
Judy Salmon (19:57):
Self restricting self restrict humidity. So we
know we have problems as wellhappening too, because he was
going into sort of restrictionquite severely.
Daniel Baden (20:06):
B ut when you start to look at dietary
changes, I guess you, you, as apractitioner need to take a deep
breath and go. Okay, let's seehow this goes.
Judy Salmon (20:16):
Well, he also does up in cradle cap at birth, and
he had some eczema. So we hadthat already stuff going on as
well. So that was how hepresented to me when he first
came. So there, there will beissues that I had to look at and
work my way through. So I knewstraight away that drinking milk
or dying and just eating wheatproducts was die hard to get. So
(20:38):
we have to take much of Britainvery, very free diet, ASAP. But
of course, parents freak out.
Yes, so that you're going tohear a lot when they're drinking
that much milk. I havediscovered over the years that
you've got to start weaning himbecause it literally is a food
addiction, food addiction. Andwe know from the effects of
(21:00):
gluten, and casein and dairy,that does lead to like opiate
type things. So you're anaddict. And
Daniel Baden (21:10):
that's the same with adults with allergies as
well.
Judy Salmon (21:13):
Yeah, exactly. So we started doing on the gluten
free dairy free diet. And I saidto mom, you know, if we can't
keep track of milk up, learn toswing down with every bit of
water, and just weaned them downto get them off the scent. It's
like an addiction, and I justgot with some other children
previously, the parents thatwent cold turkey Drug Reaction
Daniel Baden (21:40):
How long does it take to wean off milk, if you
water down slowly
Judy Salmon (21:45):
get them off within, you know, about six to
eight weeks. Okay. So once weget down to that halfway mark,
we really start to knock offthat addiction part. And that
sense of smell that they havewill start to decrease. So
they'll just start to go. But weI mean, I've had some superduper
addicted kids over the years.
And that's the way I've got themall off. Without too much stress
(22:07):
for mom and child doing it.
Daniel Baden (22:13):
At the same time, presumably you're offering some
sort of option in food or drink.
Yeah, so
Judy Salmon (22:18):
we give the options of what else we can do. And then
the foods you know, I'm movingacross soon, too. We can say now
I'm gluten free biscuits or downI'm slowly so we'll start with
the biscuits or the charactersfirst, before the break, and
start to just drop thataddiction down, and then start
(22:38):
to introduce gluten free breadsor parents make up stuff
muffins, or we change the wrap.
Daniel Baden (22:45):
So where do you start to see a shift or a change
in the gut? And or the behavior?
Is it the poo their poo startsto become more regular and solid
or something else happen?
Judy Salmon (22:58):
Oh, well, we started with the dot while I
also set up a store result,because that takes a couple of
weeks to get seen. And then acouple of months, I think it was
like just a couple of months orsomething later, we had the
store results in that. And we'llbe done with the diet. And there
was a big difference.
Daniel Baden (23:19):
What are you looking for in a stool analysis?
Judy Salmon (23:23):
That I'll go into in a minute. Because they know
I'll be underlying the kidsthen. So just from the diet
alone, he was a lot calmer. Hewas starting to learn better.
He's starting to repeat words.
And his speech was improving.
His sensory levels were comingdown. And he was more friendly
and interacting and there wasdecreasing tantrums. But that
(23:44):
was just from a diet.
Daniel Baden (23:45):
Was that commented on by parents, teachers.
Judy Salmon (23:49):
Yes. That was by the parents and the speech
therapist. Wonderful. Yep. Andwe never tell her we, you know,
I always make I said parents, wedon't tell the therapists where
to start, because then we get atrue feedback from the
therapist. Great idea. Yeah. Andbecause they'll go, oh, what's
going on? I know what'shappening. All of a sudden, all
(24:13):
their work that they can't seemto get happening, just the
children start to go. So that'show I always say don't tell the
therapist when we're stayingbecause it's not just me saying
the parents and we're alsogetting other feedback from the
therapist as well to confirm theother main thing then we come to
is underlying these children isgoing infection is massive.
(24:36):
Majority. There's a smallpercentage that don't but
they'll have other issues thatwe'll talk about as well. This
little one has had pretty mucheverything that I see under all
children. So that's, as you cansee from the photo, it would
have been wired up at thatsevere more moderate, so this
would be
Daniel Baden (24:53):
for the listeners Judy has sent me a few photos of
Locky when he was three and Ican a bit later and then one
when he was 16. Like a handsomeyoung man.
Judy Salmon (25:06):
Yeah, going fine.
No, very smart, but veryswitched on young. So what we've
found out over the years iswhile I'd started to find out
before I got too lucky came into see me was I started to
understand the effect the gut,as well from other children as
well. So it was a learningprocess I've walked through over
these years. So first, I startedto get the diet, right. Then I
(25:28):
started to see there was Candidaissues. And we started to do
that. And then that was anotherthing, then, then I was hearing
about the gut stuff. So I wentto learn all that and you can
get that tested. And that's beena step by step process over
these years that I've just addedmore and more to my
understanding of what'sunderlying these children and
(25:48):
adults. So we find out there'scertain bacteria that really,
really impact behavior, andeverything about these children.
So that's why I get that tested.
Always now, I can sort of haveguests now what's probably going
to come in in the gut test justfrom experience. So this little
(26:10):
boy had strep and Clostridiumand he's got huge 88% of his gut
was in strep infection, and 53%is Clostridium. We also tested
him up with thick bloods aswell. So he had a little bit of
liver going had inflammatorymarkers, its ferritin level was
30. That we also tested forceliac, but he wasn't celiac,
(26:31):
even though taking him throughthe diet was having huge impact,
but you can have intolerances aswe know that still impact as
bad. So when I saw the strepinfections, now a strep
infection is well number onethat lactic acid producing
bacteria. So we've got a lot ofit's like they're running
marathons all the time. Sothere's like tiredness and
(26:53):
fatigue and low iron becausethey balance also like just a
quest to iron for their owngrowth and development. So that
can explain low iron levelsalong with heavy metals will
also be low on. So with strepinfections we have impacts the
children in their cognition. Sowe have poor focus or memory or
(27:18):
learning. We can have languagedelay. We have sensory issues.
We had high anxiety issues, toOCD and all the way to
Tourette's.
Daniel Baden (27:32):
I also think I read somewhere that is also
associated with phobias andfears.
Judy Salmon (27:37):
yes and so is gluten intolerance. Intolerance?
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So often,when we just get these results,
we look at what we've just wrotedown in the healthiness history
of the notes and narrowed itthen we start that so I treat
the gut infection got I am ahomeopath as well. I decided to
(27:58):
go well, why not try homeopathyusing nosodes. They work
brilliantly. Okay,
Daniel Baden (28:07):
can you explain what it is?
Judy Salmon (28:08):
Nosodes. So it is homeopathy that it's actually
made from the tissue. So I wouldbe giving back homeopathic strep
for infection, or candida forcandida infection, or I got back
Clostridium, for Clostridiuminfection. Like treats like.
Daniel Baden (28:28):
well, and with homeopathy, if you're
prescribing a nosode, the lowerpotencies might be more for more
physical symptoms, and thehigher potencies for more
psychological symptoms. Is thatthe case?
Judy Salmon (28:40):
Yes, sort of, sort of, it's a good way of sort of
thinking about it. So yeah, Iused about 30 C. So I'm also
impacting at the physical butbecause we've got so many, at
the mental and emotional side ofthings, I needed to be touching
that as well. And so that thatseemed to work really quite
well. So it's sometimes I'll godepending occupy treat wounds
(29:02):
with Cena, I'll go to 15 or 12I'll go load for that. More
physical, but when I've gotmore, bigger impact happened to
the children, I've found 30 C,works, and it's still working to
this day. So
Daniel Baden (29:19):
one thing I absolutely love about homeopathy
is, is when you get a rightthere's some a lot of skill
involved in getting it right.
But when you do get a right theresults are so quick.
Judy Salmon (29:29):
Yes, exactly right.
So then I started adding intothen I added in along with the
diet. Then I started treating onthe strip and Clostridium
infections. So then we went tojust six weeks later because I
usually do about every six weekswhen I first start with the kids
to make sure I've got everythingokay. And he had had a little
(29:50):
bit of cough which I treatedhomeopathically with Bella Donna
sort of that quickly and thenwhen they came in November when
we added in the stripping lookAustralian animals, lots more
improvements, better eating morealert, happy, even better sleep,
and they thought he wassleeping. Even better now. And
on sleep problems are also withstroke as well. And now, all the
(30:12):
family and people were noticing,increasing that how much he was
improving. He was like, wow, hewas Wow, his twos were firming.
And coming back to normal smellwas going and he was getting
much more a sense of self. So Iwent, Yeah, we're off and
(30:33):
running.
Daniel Baden (30:37):
What is the sense of self in child like this?
Judy Salmon (30:40):
All of that start looking in the mirror? Like,
who's that in the mirror waythat they wouldn't have cared if
there was a mirror they're allbeen seen before?
Daniel Baden (30:49):
That's amazing.
Yeah, they must. I mean, whenMum walks past or dad walks past
and sees the child all of asudden looking in the mirror,
they must just be shocked.
Judy Salmon (31:00):
Well, they often get shocked by lots of. But
yeah, but I mean, that's that Iknow that part is, is I get
excited when parents come in andsay Are they looking mirror like
they're really checkingthemselves. Fantastic, because
that's normal developmentalphases. So we're switching back
the child back into the normaldevelopmental aspects that went
(31:24):
to sleep poor going to sleepbecause the children are shut
down. For whatever length oftime you buy, reopen them again.
So they they miss out of allthose developmental phases. So
gotta go back and restart them.
So and when they start pointingand imitating or when they
watching, you know that videothey've watched 9 million times
already, but now they'reactually singing and dancing
(31:44):
appropriately with it. Ratherthan squealing at it or just
staring at the video, if Simonsays they'll actually do it.
Those sorts of things is whatwe're looking at.
Daniel Baden (31:57):
Yeah. Well, Judy, you're making me smile.
Judy Salmon (32:03):
A lot at work. And it's my joy.
Daniel Baden (32:06):
Absolutely. Very good. And what else did you test
for in the gut? Anything else?
Judy Salmon (32:12):
No, because that was both. That's what came up. I
mean, the tests that I get done,and I try like Healthscope, back
then and Bioscreen, butBioscreen tend to give me better
result, not paid by any of thesecompanies. Trust me, I just do
my I'm an X research scientists.
So that's been really handy forme, because I only go we bought
really works. And they're notclinically I see works in my
(32:33):
practice, yes, I was able tofine tune down in which groups I
was working for, for whatproducts and testing. So we're
zooming into along there quite,quite for a while. And then we
went through a period where hewas doing great at preschool now
and more word sentences, singingsongs getting stubborn. There,
(32:53):
we went through a stage ofgrinding T's finger up the
night, which was ones and whenwe've got such a high level of
gut infection like he'd had,it's just a reminder to tell
people that especiallypractitioners that might be
listening was the ones we've gotto get those infections down,
whatever else is hidingunderneath their skin start to
(33:14):
appear. So do watch for wounds,because then all of a sudden,
there'll be a change in theirbehavior, like all the sudden
you've got more irritable,grinding cheese, finger up the
nose or den bum, you know, andthen I just treated that
homeopathically. And then we gotthat sorted. So we went along,
and that was all really goingreally, really well. And that
(33:36):
then I will we'll go into theMMR, you know, we'll start a
vaccine reversal sort of thing.
And so I use from Tony Smith,homeopath from the Netherlands,
and it's done in full potency,so 30 C, or 201 M and obtaining
in Homeopathics. Again, and butit's done once a week, just by
(34:00):
jobs, I should do it on a Fridaynight, if they have a reaction,
it's over the weekend, andthey're settling down again by
preschool school, and parentsare home watching. And so then I
can learn to if there's aproblem there as well. So that
just that's just works that Ifound. And so we do one week in
that next week, bottle, twobarrel three bottle port. So
(34:21):
that's what I call one round andI usually do two rounds. Because
I luckily did it with one of mychildren. It didn't do any
reactions in the first round,but when we run into the second
round, then we had bigreactions. So I would have
missed it if I just got all thatset. So I always do two rounds
now all the time to make sure Idon't miss any children at all.
Daniel Baden (34:43):
I find the whole vaccine and autism situation
fascinating because if you lookat pretty much all the current
studies, they will say there'sno relationship whatsoever.
However you speak to anypractitioner and they say well,
or any mother and, they'll say,you know, he was getting along
(35:03):
fine until he had whatevervaccine it was and things
changed. And that change may beas subtle as a sledgehammer for
some kids, or it may just bereally subtle and just change
over time. And I'm justwondering if you have any
thoughts around that?
Judy Salmon (35:18):
Yeah, I've seen different ???, especially now
with the amount of experienceand all the different types of
kids that I've had. So I've seensome that, you know, they're
really not showing a lot by oneyear, then I know that those
scenes are having very subtlebuild up, cumulative effects.
And then then when they havethat MMR one year just worsens
(35:41):
it. So it looks like, but whenyou do their history, you
actually see all their going,they've been going all the way
the parents just didn't realizeit's a first child, I wonder
Daniel Baden (35:50):
if this is just speculation, if the vaccine has
different impact on differentpopulations based on their genes
or their diet, so the country ofwhere the study is done, on
whether the vaccines have animpact or not, will strongly
relate to what the geneticbackground of those people is.
(36:12):
Because we know from othervaccines, studies and other
medical studies, so manydifferent people react to so
many different things fromdifferent backgrounds. And
they're often not looked at inthe research.
Judy Salmon (36:24):
Because there's still really no research because
vaccines are safe and effective.
So if you dont look you don'tfind evidence. So as I say to
people, and lead again, what'schanged in the last 20 years is
also the amount of vaccines thatare given has increased hugely.
I mean, even at that two for sixmonth one infinex hechsher is
16. One, but we have no ideawhat the synergy that vaccine
(36:47):
alone, and you there have had areaction to which part of it?
are they reacting? Or is it tothe whole of that infinex hexa.
And then they're also given hepB. And then they've got
rotavirus, and then they've gothip and you know, on and on. So
what is it 19 By six months now,I have to read the schedule
every year to check what whatelse I added. It's not
(37:11):
listening, it's every year, atleast one more will be added in.
And I think it's reallyimportant for you know, my major
as a scientist, immunologymajor, a baby's immune system
doesn't even kick in till six tonine months, if everything is
going well. All they have tostart with is their IGA at the
(37:31):
mucosal as a protection and thenmom's colostrum at three days or
two to three days whenever itcomes in gives all the immune
kickstart factors to start theimmune system kick starting and
going. And then that humoralsystem where you make antibodies
doesn't really kick in tillseven to nine months or so how
(37:55):
can you make antibodies at allsix 810 1214 1516 way? So this
is this is addressed to me as animmunology major, I just shaved
my head and got what textbooksthat everybody else read.
Daniel Baden (38:13):
If a mother is not able to breastfeed for any
reason, how do you manage tomaintain that child's immune
system if they're not gettingthe same level of
immunoglobulins?
Judy Salmon (38:24):
That's one of the questions I always ask them, you
know, did they breastfeed enoughto get the colostrum into the
child, which luckily, most ofthe times they have. So it's
usually they'll breastfeed foryou know, 3,4,6, 12 weeks
sometimes, and then other thanor else they'll be breastfeeding
all the way through. So thankgoodness, it seems like most
(38:45):
have got at least a colostrum.
So the immune activating factorsthat they need, are in there,
then the immune system is goingto then start maturing and
growing through time and whatare we hitting within the most
vulnerable time of six 812weeks, and they've got all this
other other other toxic stuff inthere as well. I mean, I
(39:07):
remember when I was doing my bigresearch on it years ago, I was
reading vaccine journals. Now Iknow I was a scientist,
researcher, because I could readthe journal. And they would say
in these journals, vaccinejournals, you know, there was
saying, we know a baby's immunesystem is immature. So we have
(39:27):
to find we have to add irritantsto the vaccine.
Daniel Baden (39:33):
adjuvants,
Judy Salmon (39:34):
adjuvant xiP that irritate us. Yeah, that irritate
that irritate, so we're causinginflammation
Daniel Baden (39:42):
to make the immune system more reactive,
Judy Salmon (39:44):
when it can't be because they don't have the
right things to the antibodiesyet. We've got that happening as
well in
Daniel Baden (39:53):
and do you look at any other sort of probiotic
supplements or any othersupplements at all?
Judy Salmon (39:58):
The one good thing with that with bioscreens You
know, these and withHealthscope. and now with
Nutripath and all the rest isyou can actually see the right
bacteria as well. So andsometimes we have way too high
levels of bifida. So if I gavethem a normal childhood
probiotics would be aggravateduation as well, because too much
beer for them can causeproblems, fatty acid metabolism
(40:20):
and lactic acid producing. Soyou can actually aggravate by
thinking and doing the rightthing, as well. So that's the
other reason I like the test isand I can get very specific in,
in the type of probiotics I get,and also back back in when I was
doing Lachy, because he had suchhigh stress. And there was a
couple of brands on the marketthat had like, even though it
(40:40):
was supposedly normal strict,who would aggravate those
people. And I started in myadults as well, you know, taking
it, I had everything but thekitchen sink in this particular
profile. So and they wereactually getting worse. And then
when I said bring it in, let melook. And I saw that the
stripping says we stopped, thenthey were okay. So, you know,
(41:01):
you've even got to startbalancing out at that level,
because there's a reallychronically ill people, and kids
and adults to that, you know,and it helped me understand
right across the chronic board,ADHD, chronic fatigue,
rheumatoid arthritis, you nameit, it's a, it's a template that
I've been able to adaptaccordingly right across now.
Daniel Baden (41:22):
You know, one of the things that I've noticed and
I've been, you can tell me ifyou have as well, is that some
kids have a sensitivity to anumber of different supplements
and medication. What do youthink's going on there?
Judy Salmon (41:33):
Well, I think some people just highly sensitive, I
think it's a part of who theyare in a highly sensitive, I
started reacting to everything.
So that was one of the reasonsof pushing me to alternative
medicine myself, because I'mquite empathic. I'm highly
sensitive. And so I think that'spart of, you know, looking at
everyone holistically andindividually, because some
people you can, you can bumpover their head with herbs, five
(41:54):
bills three times a day, wherethat would just wipe me out.
That's the art I think of ourprofession, too, is seeing going
something different. I do dropsonly a couple of time and and
then others, you can hit harder
Daniel Baden (42:12):
Specifically with the autistic child, is there an
increase sensitivity, do youthink,
Judy Salmon (42:18):
again, I find some I can put in two or three
remedies all at once. And I'llstart with one only, and then
slowly build them up, build themup. And then I can add in some
extra things yet, and they'lldefinitely got children that
can't do certain supplements. Ihave Asperger adult that could
only do certain supplements. Andthen before we can do anything
(42:42):
else, so you had to admit yougotta get really flexible, and
adaptable. And as I send myparents, I follow the children.
They always show me like, Okay,do this something else coming
up. Now you got to sort out.
Daniel Baden (42:57):
So your expertise is strengthening, I guess, in
being able to read the unusualset of symptoms that they
present to you. They can't tellyou what they're feeling. So
you're getting really good atlooking at the body language,
and behavioral patterns. Yes. Isthat something you can only
learn from experience? Or is itsomething you can teach? I've
(43:20):
sort of
Judy Salmon (43:21):
tried to teach some people like look in their eyes,
and you can tell whether they'reactually withdrawn or whether
they're not even in their body.
But it was seemed to work thatones I thought, I don't know how
to teach this, I think, probablya gift I have, because I am an
empath, you so I think, youknow, I've got that extra gift.
Now I understand why I haven't,I think also trained up as a
homeopath because we're tryingto observe and see more than
(43:44):
just a physical symptom. We'retrying to look at the emotional
mental, every aspect. So I thinkbeing trained as a homeopath
helped in your early days, aswell, because I would watch
third, you know, because wetrade babies for colic and
teething and they can't tell usthen so we're watching. Are you
watching back? Are you doingthis to get your red cheeks or
(44:05):
not? And then add helps us workout the remedies. So again, it's
very using observation. And Ithink that's really important
role and understanding thattheir behavior is their
language,
Daniel Baden (44:17):
you also have a good look at the blood
chemistry. I know there arevarious studies out there
talking about the role ofinflammation in these conditions
in autism, and particularlyaround say, interleukin eight or
tumor necrosis factor alpha, andprobably a whole host of others
as well. Is that something thatyou would consider?
Judy Salmon (44:37):
I do a certain amount of blood work but I don't
get caught up at that level.
Because that is actually goingright down the medical model and
you're only seeing one mine andand yes, I mean if they've got
got problems going on andthey've got dietary issues and
their reaction, their immunesystem is off. Of course they're
going to have inflammatorymarkers and they're going to
have all that you can get lostIn those sort of results, and
(45:00):
indeed, to take that 40,000 footview and take a step back,
they're going to beinflammatory, they're going to
be this, they're going to bethat they're going to have these
markers. I mean, parents comeinto me and have done lots of
testing and I will have thatlook through. But doesn't really
tell me anything more than Ialready know.
Daniel Baden (45:22):
Would it be considered useful if you're
trying to assess if your diet isworking in terms of
inflammation? Or those areas?
Are you going purely offsymptoms there?
Judy Salmon (45:32):
If I think it's like your dietary problems, I'll
get the food intolerance testdone. so yeah, I do a certain
blood test to start with, so Iwill usually send them off. It
depends on the age. If they'reonly like two I don't do a food
intolerance and especially ifthey're self restrictive, I
already know what they've gotproblems with. So I just got to
work on that. If they're older,I will get food intolerance
(45:55):
testing done. So then I canactually help them put the diet
the right diet to get them tothat particular childhood
person, because what reacts inone person does not always
reaction another person, so yougot to individualize there. And
then I get a full blood countdone. I get iron studies done. I
get biochem done, I get copper,zinc, baichwal, folate, vitamin
(46:17):
D, thyroid, and that within thestool tests and the food I can
usually make up I usually knowthem pretty much what's going on
and what I'm dealing
Daniel Baden (46:26):
with Locky, what would is typical diet look like
now or after you'd had a fewsessions with him and his
parents. What would hisbreakfast lunch and dinner look
like?
Judy Salmon (46:38):
Oh, okay, so Well, when he's good. He really
offered gluten. But once he gotoff the milk, he's he's never
really been a big milk personever. And that's what we find
those parents go over? Well,they'll want it again. But I
don't find that. It's like theyknow now. It's like that. Yeah,
you know, that's, that makes mefeel terrible. So when he
(47:00):
succumbs This is how we knewthat he really had a gluten in
problems like and when he wentto school, of course, then you
tend to have lowly things,especially when you know, when
he got a bit older, like aboutgirl in high school, he went
quite off again. And they said Ineed to go see Judy. And then I
(47:21):
was like, oh, okay, you'rereally and because I'm on
Facebook with him. I can seewhat he was eating, where he was
going in
Daniel Baden (47:29):
theres no hiding with social media.
Judy Salmon (47:35):
So I already had a pretty good clue
So yeah, so we pulled him backoff all gluten and that's where
and he was dying to get highanxiety again, and coming pain
and not sleeping well. And yeah,bit phobia type thing. So we got
(47:57):
we hadn't done his daughter'sfor a long time. I just thought
I would just double check. Wegot everything right. So we did
that as well. But we got himstraightaway on the job, again,
a bit of a chore from me. So I'mthe one who has to do the bad
cop. So he went okay, he woulddo it. So that that did. That
(48:20):
was some strip stories got so Istarted I retreated that and
then we're going more slowly.
Daniel Baden (48:25):
So overall, do you find that moving kids with
autism to anti inflammatory sortof diet more fruit vegetables,
the most agreeable sort of diet?
And do you recommend me to orprotein of any sort as well?
Judy Salmon (48:43):
I said, Yeah, because I see some Asians so
that some of them arevegetarian. So I, I actually
have learned also especiallywith my overseas just say stick
to your real diet. Because thatis genetic. They've got a
genetic patent, that's a giantso I go for goodness sake, keep
up Augustyn and stay with you.
And I must admit, families fromIndia, those children actually
(49:06):
eat a lot better, even thoughthey're still gonna be quite
autistic as well. And they gotlots of anti inflammatories
going in all the herbs andspices. Again, you're still
gonna get to that realunderlying cause of what's
what's causing all that
Daniel Baden (49:22):
and how do you work with the parents and the
family because it's a big job tomake so many changes to a child
affected by autism. How do yourally the parents and the
brothers and sisters
Judy Salmon (49:35):
look I just say to him, you know, let's just start
so do we usually start throughweaning processes and slowly
letting the cupboard go Barrowcertain products and then slowly
replacing him with either glutenfree or dairy free product? So I
usually have a list ofalternative clouds grains,
everything that usually okay, orif they're over I've done food
(49:56):
intolerance. I know exactly.
They might say okay, we've gotthere. Okay, this is And then
not okay, this and once I seeall the all the things are gone
the okay lose is usually biggerthan the ones that got to avoid
that helps them as well. But shewent on during my ADHD kit, we
go through and they go, can Iget that go? No, but you can
have this, oh, I can I can havethat. So that might start to
make it easier reading labels, Ijust got to remind her and you
(50:19):
know, just take your time duringyour first shop, as certain
things go out, then then whenyou go next shopping, then look
for alternative. So they're notdoing an r&b kit. I mean, some
do, they'll just go for broad.
Others, it's too overwhelmingand I go, it's okay, we can only
do the best we can do the kneeI've learned is keeping Charles
(50:39):
dressed very in mom's dressvery, equals good success. And
that's really crucial. So Ialways say to my mom's right,
your game plan out, I don'texpect miracles, we're still
going to get things happeningbecause I'm addressing the other
underlying issues going on. Isaid, I need you to be stressed
very, because children pick upthe stress levels, so they know
(51:02):
that you're all stressed aboutit, then you won't get them off
that food. And if you just doall the mums that used to be oh,
well, whatever those kids wouldjust go is easy peasy would
adapt over. So it really comesdown to how wavy mom is. So I
really gotta calm mom's down.
Give me a ring if you need a bitof this alright? Or not all
right, or, you know, send me atext went over and something and
(51:26):
I'll tell you yea or nay. Soyou've got to be prepared as a
practitioner, that for thosefirst, good three months, you go
put a bit of extra effort tohelp them get through because
once they get through it,they're often going, then you
can sit back, okay. And it'seasy for all of us. It's hard
work, I have to admit, I mean,I've got it down to good art
now, because of your practicethat I remember in those Oh,
(51:48):
yeas, it was hard work.
Daniel Baden (51:52):
But I guess nothing motivates parents and
siblings as seeing results.
Judy Salmon (51:56):
Exactly. Yeah. And then when they start to see
everything heading in the rightdirection, where everything's
been going wrong for so long.
But then again, I've had alsosome families or not so much
now, but in the early days, andthey wouldn't turn up the
console, and they got tortured,even though the child was
showing signs are gettingbetter. I don't find that as
much. Or maybe I'll just attractfamilies that are really ready
(52:20):
to do the big work now.
Daniel Baden (52:23):
Yeah, yeah, I've seen that myself, you saw Lachy
when he was three went throughsome changes, at what point? You
know, how was he at five andseven and 10 Just off the top of
your head?
Judy Salmon (52:35):
Well, when we started all the vaccines, and
then we had some huge, hugechanges, you know, then he
Daniel Baden (52:41):
so when you say the vaccine; the vaccine detox,
realized,
Judy Salmon (52:46):
reversals, undo damage that was so so that would
have been about nine months,9-10 months after I first
started treating him so it waspicked up and was playing and
all of the things then westarted with the MMR and then we
went in to really be playingimaginary games lot to pretend
(53:07):
playing seen whole songs andhappy to go to therapy was doing
really well at therapists lovedhim hit out every now and then.
But it was more frustration,awareness, language expressions,
social skills improved, to havea little bit of sensory to go
through, that was all improving.
And then you went into moreritualistic behavior. And then I
(53:28):
went on to hair, a hairanalysis. So I did even a little
bit backwards to what I do. Nowthat was part of my learning.
You know, that is you do middlesfirst and then go into vaccines.
So that did because it had sucha change it you know, we were
seeing this incredible flowhappening. And then all of a
(53:49):
sudden the chain is like we hita brick wall and something else.
Okay, so now it's veryritualistic, which is bought
usually mentally, you know,metals can be quite like that.
So and so we did a hair analysison that. So we had to know Him
IN YOU MUST income and it wasreally, really high. And it's
been I started in on detoxing.
Bismuth heavy metal. So thenthat I actually now with the
(54:13):
herbs in can you hurt. So justdo leaf and root, protect the
kidneys and the liver becausewe're detoxing heavy metals down
in the body. And then I just getthat once a week now you should
do the metals at a dose of 200.
C
Daniel Baden (54:26):
casting forward in years. Lachy he's now 16 I
think. Yep. How's the last fewyears of his life being here as
a teenager?
Judy Salmon (54:36):
Oh, well. I mean, every now and then as a teen
especially with the last coupleyears anxiety, but that's more
not what was causing all thisstuff before. It's just a
teenager in this crazy worldthat we're in at the moment and
all that unknowns and I thinkthe biggest issue that we've had
(54:56):
to talk about is all this genderstuff. going on with them really
confusing the kids. And I saidyou may you know, it's hung up
in a teenager years ago withoutadding all this to the picture
as well. So if you talk himthrough all that, he's very
healthy plays cricket sport,loves it
Daniel Baden (55:18):
good social network?
Judy Salmon (55:21):
He's got all his friends that he's had since
primary school Plus, you've nowgot a different high school. So
some of these primates have goneoff to other high schools. So he
went into a brand new highschool on his own, with no
backup there. So you handled itreally well.
Daniel Baden (55:37):
Amazing. For all intents and purposes, he is in
inverted commas. Normal.
Judy Salmon (55:43):
Yeah. You would never ever, ever know, at all.
Daniel Baden (55:50):
And finally, is it ever too late to treat autism?
If you will see all this patientyou've seen?
Judy Salmon (55:56):
I've done into the 20s. And I've just got a new one
at the moment. And you I'm justwaiting for his results. He's
26. Is it ever too late now?
It's not too late at all. TheNether fallacy that's still out
there and has been for us isthat you got to have done by
five or four or something, orelse it's too late. No, no, I do
kids, you know, 567 1112 13,whatever age they come in, and
(56:16):
like you will get slower andmore work to do because of debin
shut down that longer period oftime. But they're all but you
can do you know so much. They'rehealthy and happy. Living life,
you know, hadn't even been ableto really do.
Daniel Baden (56:33):
You know, the one thing I've known as a
naturopath, myself is and I haveenormous respect for is the
human body and its ability tobounce back at any stage. It is
constantly finding ways toimprove and with a bit of help,
it's just amazing.
Judy Salmon (56:51):
Yes, that's right.
And there is so much to do. AndI mean, I've used these
templates, you know, I workedwith kids with Down syndrome of
genetic conditions or do ADHD,sensory auditory processing all
there is if you just go findthose underlying issues and
renew them. Amazing thing.
Daniel Baden (57:13):
You kept me smiling the whole interview
because I just love to see theimprovement that Locky had, it
was just gorgeous. Thank you,Judy, how do people get in touch
Judy S (57:22):
Judth.salmon@bigpond.com with you?
Danie (57:24):
Judith.salmon@bigpond.com Right. Wonderful. Well, you are
amazing. Thank you. And thankyou for
Judy Salmon (57:37):
I love giving hope to people and also getting the
truth out there. There's so muchyou can do.
Daniel Baden (57:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
There is and what a lovelystory. So thank you so much. And
hope to speak to you again.
Judy Salmon (57:50):
Okay,
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