Lee Blinder, Trans Maryland

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lee was born in Washington DC and raised in
Montgomery County, maryland.
Following that, they spent 14years learning and growing in
Baltimore City and New York Cityand returned to Montgomery
County five years ago.
A 17-year food industryprofessional who learned
everything they know aboutsocial justice working at all
levels of service in thatindustry, they realized their

(00:23):
true passion was working inservice to their trans community
and specifically as anon-binary member of the
community.
They grew up without having theprivilege of seeing adult out
trans and queer folks inMontgomery County and are
passionate about changing thatnarrative for young persons and
striving to facilitateintergenerational conversations

(00:43):
and spaces to connectface-to-face.
Lee can be best described as anon-binary, trans queer person,
companion to a pirate cat namedBasil Pasta-Miranera and a pity
pup named Cupcake, aneighborhood celebrity.
They also enjoy learning fromour non-human animal friends.
Here's our conversation.
Welcome, lee.

(01:05):
Thank you for being on.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I read in your bio one thing that you said that
struck me as interesting.
You said that being in the foodindustry for 17 years helped
you learn everything that youneeded to know about social
justice.
Explain that to me.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Sure, the food industry for me was just a great
example of all of the issuesthat we struggle with in society
, but just condensed down into avery tidy package where we have
classism, anti-blackness,anti-trans bias, anti-queer bias
, we have immigration concerns,we have just all of these issues

(01:48):
that most of us in the socialjustice sphere are working on at
the same time.
They're all in this singularspace in food world.
I usually say in the food world, you can have two out of three.
You can have it where you'veethically sourced something, you
can take care of your staff oryou can charge an affordable
price.
You can have all three.

(02:09):
What that means is there's thesedeep injustices in our food
system.
There's the anti-trans andqueer laws in Florida and
there's also anti-immigrantsentiment going on and folks are
being prevented from workingthere.
The entire food system runs onimmigrant work, our food system.
We're seeing the repercussionsof this bigotry going on,

(02:33):
because there are a lot of jobsthat folks who are born in the
US don't want to do and thoseare left for our immigrant
communities.
Frequently that's undocumentedfolks who just really don't have
any other work options.
And then we're thinking aboutthe trans community and the
biases that come up with ourcommunity Specifically for folks

(02:57):
generally at the intersectionof misogyny, anti-blackness and
anti-trans bias, like blacktrans women, indigenous trans
women, and not exclusive to.
There.
Are also black trans men, transmasculine folks in Latin A and
Latin O, trans men and transmasculine folks who may not be
assumed as men in the workplaceand therefore also struggling to

(03:20):
access legal and affirmingemployment.
That's that microcosm of thesocial justice world Just people
who are very wealthy, thinkingthat they can just treat you
poorly because you're just quoteunquote like a food service
worker.
But people need to eat threetimes a day and they don't want

(03:44):
to cook.
As it turns out, food workersare real important and the
people who grow and make ourfood yeah they miss a lot of
things.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, did some of the things that you saw there lead
you to Transmaryland?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, absolutely, working in coffee shops for many
years back in New York beforewe had gender inclusive restroom
rules and actually people arelike New York is such an
affirming place, then it is anamazing place.
There's a lot of communitydensity and community power and
the community.
But there are also folks whodon't like queer and trans folks

(04:22):
Like there are everywhere elseand worked for a store manager
was up there who hated trans andqueer folks and we all worked
in that industry so wasadvocating for gender inclusive
restroom options.
For one of my trans coworkerswho kept getting harassed when

(04:45):
he would go into the bathroom,it was like these are single
occupancy restrooms and he's atwork.
It's not like he's a customer.
He could choose somewhere elseto be.
He needs to be able to accessthe restroom while he's at a
shift at work.
So can we make the signage atthe restrooms gender inclusive?
It was like lost.
Having a home can't do that.

(05:05):
We don't have signs to orderall those things.
It's quite a large chain hasnow made that decision to ensure
that the restrooms are genderinclusive and now they're
required by law in New York City.
But it was not at the time thatI was there, which is about like
2008 until 2015.

(05:25):
So I was working on just veryintimate like issues within my
own workplace, my own communityfor people and myself.
Our store manager at the time,I remember, had there was take
your kid to work day, so she hadher 10 year old kid at work and
the kid was like, asked mycoworker, are you a boy or girl?

(05:46):
And he's like well, I'm a boy.
And the store manager saiddon't lie to my daughter.
And that was a huge problem forhim at work to just be
disrespected in that way.
I always wonder why folks workat that company, which is
generally known for being moretrans and queer, affirming.
There are certainly more openlybig companies to work for.

(06:08):
But yeah, she ended up losingher job for wage hour theft, for
changing all of her hours, sothat was how that ended for her.
But for the rest of us, thatwas a huge part of the like
start of this work.
And then, when I moved back fromNew York, montgomery County,
where I'd grown up looking forresources for myself and I was

(06:32):
not able to find affirminghealthcare, everyone was telling
me I have to go into DC and Iwas like that's not acceptable
and I had no intention ofstarting an organization.
I did not want to do that.
I wanted to go help out andthen I could not find anyone to

(06:53):
just help out.
I was like kept encounteringfolks who were like, well,
nobody is doing that, nobody isdoing that.
So at the time our first namewas TransHealthcare Maryland and
the organization was born outof that experience and some
colleagues of mine out inWestern Maryland who are having

(07:14):
a really similar experience ofnot being able to access
healthcare, affirming legaltransition and things like that.
So over time our scope becamejust Trans Maryland to address,
like all of the different wayswe transition and our needs in
the community.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Right.
So I know that you do a lot ofwork around Maryland trying to
make sure the officials aredoing the right thing, making
sure that equality for all isthere.
So tell us aboutTransHealthcare Maryland, some
of the things that you were ableto accomplish while you are

(07:53):
able to accomplish with thisorganization and I see that it's
in full force and you'reactually just getting an award
from congressmen for being alocal here so tell us about the
organization.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Sure.
So TransHealthcare Marylandbefore we became Trans Maryland,
our goal was to work with thePlanned Parenthood of Maryland
and encourage them to offergender affirming care very
consistent with their values ofreproductive and sexual health,
and some of my friends hadworked on that initiative and
worked.
So my plan was like ratherinnocent at the time.

(08:29):
It's like, oh well, I'll justfind the queer and trans folks
who work at Planned ParenthoodMaryland, it'll be really easy.
They'll like convince theorganization and we'll have this
done like two, three weeks, noproblem.
Definitely did not happen thatquickly and we had a lot of
amazing folks who really pushedto help us get that goal

(08:50):
accomplished.
And there's a lot of pieces tothese systems that I think,
having for me a background inbusiness and food, things like
that are really helpful becauseI understand that this work and
these initiatives have to besustainable and everybody's got

(09:11):
run to pay.
They have to pay staff.
We want to have it be anaffirming workplace for people,
so we want them to have a goodbenefits package, all those
things right.
But it can be complex tonavigate through and make these
things happen.
But we did accomplish that goaland a few others like.
We led the coalition to passthe ID bill back in 2019 that

(09:35):
made gender self-select inMaryland and added the X marker
for Maryland IDs, permits anddriver's licenses.
That was actually deeplypersonal to me because it was
the first time I had an accurateidentity document.
I had it undergone the legalname change process but I wasn't

(09:56):
able to select the correctgender marker for my ID because
option until we passed that billand it went into effect in
October 1st of 2018, it wasn'tan option for me then.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
One thing I can say from no any of over the years
you have been doing this work,when it wasn't popular.
I remember when we first metthere was no one else in the
state of Maryland doing what youwere doing, and I know
sometimes you were therefighting alone, the quote
unquote big time people, and younever gave up.

(10:30):
You're always there, fightingfor what you believe in,
fighting for equality and rightsfor all, and that's something
that I really admire about you.
You never stop.
You say it through to what youbelieve in.
From the day I know you'reuntil today.
You always preach the samething.
It's never something differentthat you have said about
equality and what you believe in, what your mission is, and it's

(10:53):
just.
It's really commendable,because people tend to often
flip flop what they believe inand go with what's popular, but
that's never been you.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, thank you for that deep compliment.
I really appreciate it, cassie.
I think we connected initiallybecause we were both in that
same position, fighting for whatwe believed in not having those
flip flops and working onthings that were not popular.
I was saying recently we are attables that we never dreamed

(11:23):
possible, like I grew up at atime when we did not believe
that any of this was going to bepolitically like viable, that
we could talk about these things, we could pass laws like this,
and our siblings and otherstates are certainly not having
the same kind of success andexperience.
So it's certainly a privilege tobe able to work on positive

(11:46):
change here and I think, likethat piece of being comfortable
working on things that aren'tpopular, I think making folks
uncomfortable is a huge part ofhow I've had personal growth.
When I've been uncomfortable,like to say, my motto is let's
get uncomfortable, because thatleads to incredible growth.

(12:09):
And if we all just do only whatwe know and what feels safe and
good, then we can't accomplishreal systemic change that we all
urgently need, because ourliberations are all bound
together.
There's not a separate pathway.
It's all part of the samestruggle for us all to be able

(12:30):
to live open, affirming liveswhere we have our resources that
we need.
So thank you again for such akind compliment and I would have
to put that back right in thesame direction to your way,
because it's easy in this workto meet folks who want something

(12:52):
shiny and good and don'tnecessarily want to do the hard
work or just want to dosomething that sounds good but
doesn't have any functionalimpact.
So it's cool to find fellowfolks in this work who agree and
have that same vision.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right, because I don't want to get into the meat
of the topic.
But even now I look back intoPrince George's County and
everybody's doing a festival.
They're doing all these things,but what's really changing?
I remember when I was there Iwas even in Fairmont High School
both transgender women arekilled.

(13:26):
The last time I did an event inPrince George's County was in
21 and we did a re-leaningceremony there.
I see all these events going onin Prince George's County and I
don't see one that speaks aboutthe injustice that's been going
on there.
I felt it bothers me a littlebit.

(13:48):
Sometimes it feels to see thatthe exposure is there, but what
bothers me is that it has becomemore for political thing and
just festivals all over theplace, instead of making sure
that we are getting theresources that people need and
honoring the lives of peoplethat were killed innocently for

(14:11):
just believing they're true.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Absolutely the deaths of Ashanti Kharman and Zoe
Spears.
Like those women and so manyother women across Maryland, we
have to continue to speak theirnames, we have to continue to
uplift their stories, because Iwas on a panel recently and I'm

(14:36):
often maybe the voice who wantsto make everyone think a little
or get out of the comfort zone alittle bit.
But one of our queer elders wason this panel with me and she
was very willing To talk aboutdiscomfort.

(14:58):
Her name is Elizabeth MelindaTrivara and she's a long-time
organizer and activist.
She's 62 and she is aself-described Puerto Rican.
Butch dyke Just commanded theroom and was like listen, we
have been complacent and we'vegotten comfortable and we want

(15:21):
to rest, but the work is notdone.
It was just a rare treat for meto be on a panel with someone
older than me.
I've just turned 41.
It's not very old, but in ourcommunity we have a lot of
elders that can't be in thespaces for a long list of
reasons that are all tied intoall these other systemic things

(15:43):
we're talking about.
But to have both an elder andsomeone who is willing to just
say the words that really neededto be said and to put it very
succinctly and not prioritizeeverybody's comfort, and there
was elected officials from thecity of Highetsville who were

(16:05):
there.
She was like I'm going to be inthis space and speak some truth
to everybody and we were allbetter for it and it was very
well received.
She's a great speaker.
It's just a treat and a reminderbecause I usually feel like
many times the spaces I'm in,the young folks are the ones who

(16:26):
push the conversation forwardbecause they are not in
chocompromise.
They grew up with unbelievableaccess and still unbelievable
challenges.
Our young folks are not wellfor sure, they are not well
resourced.
They are still struggling withall of the same things that we
as adults and our many of ourelders are.

(16:48):
But they grew up with somequeer characters and trans
characters on TV and books andthere's just elected officials
and celebrities and their peopleand their lives and ways for us
, maybe in a book that we foundin some bookstore hidden away in

(17:08):
a corner or a queer bar thatsomehow we managed to find
somewhere To have.
I think our young folks so muchin charge of leadership and
demanding equity immediately Now.
They don't want to wait, theydon't want incremental steps,
they're like this is urgent andI feel really privileged to be

(17:32):
able to get pushed forward bythat.
So it's just a treat to alsohave it coming from our elders
as well and not have folks belike I'm relaxing, I'm retired,
whatever.
It's cute or a pride, good day.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Sure, but in some ways we're definitely
backsliding, Like there was atime when we felt we were moving
forward and making someprogress, if not as should have
been made, but now it's.
You mentioned books.
It's like banning books andeven erasing drag shows, which a

(18:08):
lot of people probably didn'tsee coming.
So talk about why queerrepresentation is even important
.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Sure, I think everybody has probably seen that
photo of that young girllooking up at the portrait the
young black girl looking up atthe portrait of Michelle Obama
and it's like we all need to seeourselves in adulthood to know
what adulthood means.
Otherwise, there's a blankspace in adulthood and in your

(18:39):
mind's eye and your vision ofwhat's possible for you as a
human.
So to have just this missingcomponent of your future, it's
really destabilizing and itmeans that adulthood doesn't
feel real and it means that thepath can be very challenging to

(19:01):
even find.
So I think representation isincredibly, incredibly important
.
We know how important it is tohave people in someone's life
that look like them, that sharecommon cultural experiences, and
so for young folks who grew upin this gender and heterosexual,
like parent or guardiansituation, that means that

(19:26):
there's some work that's goingto have to be done and
culturally, our society now hasa few options.
But I agree with you on thatthat back slide.
And it's not a slide.
It's a very intentionallycrafted, choreographed
international campaign to removetrans and queer people from
public life, and it's not new.

(19:46):
It's been going on for manyyears and it has a lot of
history and eugenics and rootsthere, for people who want to
establish their worldview ofhatred.
And I think something I've beenreflecting on is my it's
complicated, but I guess mydeeper appreciation for growing

(20:09):
up Jewish and having my motherteach me about the Holocaust,
and sometimes I felt like it wasa lot, it's like, ok, mom, can
we have a different, differentview, different book, like
another Holocaust movie?
Ok, but I think that experiencewas really, really helpful
because it taught me that thegovernment can come for you one

(20:31):
day and therefore it was not asurprise to me to see that.
And I see a lot of my fellowcommunity members really, really
struggling because they feellike the government is their
friend, who has betrayed them,and they didn't ever believe
that the government would comefor our community, that their

(20:52):
people's neighbors would ignorethem and or participate in
placing them in danger.
And I think my takeaway wasthat, through my own like
cultural and history experiences, that some of my family members
, I think, believe that theseGerman people and many others
were to sit in the Holocaust.

(21:14):
Just the regular people, right,like people's neighbors.
They're just like bad people,and I think that they're not
because we see in the US thehistory of enslavement.
These are just people andpeople make choices every day to
ignore other people's needs andsuffering, and so those pieces

(21:35):
really influence me because itgave me this world view.
That said, yeah, the governmentis not always going to be a
place of safety and yourneighbors might participate in
your harm, and those are justregular nice people who say hi
to you.
One day they won't say hi toyou.
Something switches in the air.

(21:55):
They're like oh, I guess yourcommunity is on the outs.
I'm not down for that, or notdown for your community period.
So I think that was.
I'm grateful for having thatupbringing, because I think it's
like I'm.
We always hope, like, ok, wewon't have to, I won't have to

(22:17):
have that moment right when it'slike, oh, it's time.
Like you prepared for this, youknew that one day this might
happen, so that time iscertainly now.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Probably the target group right now are trans and
non-binary people, and probablypart of the reason for that is
people's lack of understandingabout and you've turned you
called it the myth of biologicalsex.
So talk to us a little bitabout that.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Eddie Kintos, and our audience is about it.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yes, I did read articles that you sent.
I didn't get through the thirdone.
It's kind of long but and I'lldefinitely link those in this
podcast episode.
So, yeah, let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Cool, yeah, no, thank you, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, it's a lot of reading forsure.
I have like a long list, so Isent you a couple.
I tried to be reasonable, butyeah, so the myth of biological
sex is this idea that we havetwo genders, right, two genders,
two sexes.
There's cut lines, right.
Everything's very tidy, there'sthese clear boundaries and when

(23:30):
we look to humans, that's justnot how we are.
Like we don't have two races.
We don't have black people andwhite people.
We have many races and thenthere's a lot of like overlap
and identity, same with gender,same with sex.
Sex and gender are defined interms of each person's own

(23:51):
personal experience and we havescientific definitions for sex.
Certainly, where there aredifferences in chromosomes,
there are differences inhormones, reproductive
capability and internal andexternal reproductive organs.
So I usually say that my job isto tell grown adults that their
idea of the world a categorycategorical, like verified

(24:16):
binary of men and women isincorrect, and they've been
wrong since childhood.
When we're like lining up inpreschool or like boys here,
girls here we're separated inthis categorical way and the
nuances are never discussed andI think we all can probably

(24:37):
think of many people in ourlives who don't fit into some
other binary category, who findit very difficult to navigate
through life because of thatright.
Folks who are multiracial,folks who have a different
gender presentation, folks whohave an invisible disability,
right, we're like disabilityequals wheelchair, but if you

(24:59):
don't have a visible disability,then this binary of this is
what disability is.
This is what disability isn'tis kind of like set as a
construct.
So this piece of biological sexis we're all taught like okay,
there are two ways to be, and,as I mentioned, my job is to

(25:19):
kind of shatter that likebaseline and supportive, like
floor that people have builttheir understanding of the world
in.
And we don't teach adults thatthey're going to learn a
category, a new category ofpeople in adulthood.
We're like this is you're justgoing to have these two things
and then those would be the samefor the rest of your life.

(25:41):
So that's a lot to bring into aconversation and I'm really,
really grateful for so many ofour elders and ancestors who've
come before me, who've done alot of that work to help people
understand, and so much of whatwe're doing is both like there's
the teaching piece of sharingthis information, but there's

(26:04):
also a significant amount ofunlearning and then just trying
to unravel these thoughts thatwe've had about how the world
functions and how people are,because these things don't serve
us well when we put thesereally rigid categories into
people.
People are messy and different.
There's a lot of different wayspeople come.

(26:25):
We're like well, people alwayscome with two legs.
Well, nope, actually no, somepeople don't, and those folks
are coming into a world that isset up for people with two legs.
We have righty scissors.
And then the folks who needlefty scissors we're like well,
good luck with that.
So I guess maybe you could payextra money and try to find some
lefty scissors, right, we'realways somehow more expensive.

(26:48):
So we have these binaries and itdoesn't just exist for sex or
gender, and the piece aboutbiological sex that a lot of
people really think is likesolid is the same.
We have these chromosomaldifferences.
The thing about people is thatyou don't generally have a

(27:08):
chromosomes tested, right.
The letter that's written onyour birth certificate is from
whoever your birth provider istaking a look at external
genitalia as the baby's born andwriting in letter.
There's no chromosome testinghappening in most babies.
There's no like hormonal checks, right.

(27:29):
We're just like having analysismade by one person and all the
biases and all the thoughtsabout the world that they bring
to the conversation and makingspace for intersex people.
Intersex people might have adifference in sex development,
whether it be in hormones,chromosomes and their

(27:50):
reproductive organs and externalor internal genitalia.
So we have a lot of differentways for people to be and
intersex people are incrediblycommon.
There are a lot of differentmetrics for how common intersex
people are.
That can vary among populations, but we just believe that
everybody's endosex, which isthe opposite of intersex, right?

(28:15):
So endosex means that you don'thave a chromosomal difference,
you don't have a hormonaldifference here.
Within this like very specifiedrange of actual measurements for
what genitalia sizing can beJust a little disturbing if we
think about it, right?
So we have this idea that thereare no intersex people, but

(28:39):
they exist and people sometimesfind out they're intersex in
adulthood.
They find out they're intersexwhen they're going through
puberty and it doesn't go downthe way they think it might.
Some people find out whenthey're trying to have a baby.
Some people don't find out.
And what's found out in acoroner's report?
Right, they didn't know theirwhole life.

(29:01):
So these binaries and therigidity around them create just
a lot of problems for not justtrans people but quite a lot of
folks like I think the problemwith the policing of gender in
our society is that we believethat you should look at someone,
know their gender and their sexand that's just functionally

(29:23):
like.
Not true, that's not how itworks for people.
But there's just a verywell-funded and very coordinated
effort to define sex as abinary, and that has its roots
in eugenics, because themovement was to actually define

(29:44):
sex in order to establish andthis is a deeply disturbing
concept but to establish thatnon-white people are lesser of
their genders and to define sexexclusively as like, with a
pinnacle of white men and thenwhite women as like lower but

(30:05):
also kind of this secondarynumber, and then everybody else
was lesser than and there waslike definitions of like facial
characteristics and everythinglike this.
So it's got a really harmfulbasis and that harms all of us
deeply because it gives us thisimpression that we are very,

(30:29):
very different from one anotherand that there are these
intrinsic differences that arebinary, that will separate us
from one another and that arejust easily defined without all
the messy parts of biology andthe ways that people come and
exist in the world, like we havemany, many different ways of
being.
So I think that's like I'm,again, not a biologist.

(30:50):
I try to like explain this in away that's accessible and makes
sense to folks.
It's hard because we're taughtin biology class there's two
genders and we're taughtthroughout our whole lives.
Everything reinforces it andthe thing about it is it's just
functionally not true andscientists will share that, and

(31:13):
biologists, I guess, have beentrying to work on that for a
long time.
And the folks who end up on thelosing end of that are generally
often cisgender women, whetherthey be intersex or end of sex
who are, and then trans women,who are pinnacle of white men.
And then trans women who arekind of policed out of womanhood

(31:34):
because we have these reallyreally strict rules of like who
gets to be a woman and whatfacial characteristics equal
womanhood and what hair optionsequal womanhood, and all of
those things have a very deeplike racial component to them
because they're coming out ofthis eugenics movement and it's

(31:54):
incredibly harmful for all of us.
But folks like Caster Semenya,the runner.
She found out she's intersexthrough chromosomal testing
after folks found that she wasgoing too fast for a woman and
many of the women who are in thesports arena find out that way,

(32:16):
and there are naturally a lotof different ways to be and we
prioritize some of those.
So some people's like height,size of their feet, the way they
process lactic acid to healfrom when they're working out
their muscles, things like that.
We're like those geneticdifferences make you a superior

(32:36):
athlete and we like them andwe're going to give you all the
gold medals and we're like goodjob at manhood.
But then when women succeed, wewant to find out a lot of
different ways to take theirwomanhood from them and their
achievements from them.
And I think it's incumbent onall of us to really be critical

(32:57):
of that and take a look at howthis is harming folks.
And then what it really meansfor these sports bands.
It means that your child mightbe subjected to someone saying,
oh, she's not enough of a womanfor me, she's too good at her
sport.
And then we're like genitalinspecting children for the

(33:20):
reason of participation insports.
And it's not just going tohappen to the trans girls and
the intersex girls, it's goingto happen to a lot of people and
cisgender girls and end of sexgirls.
So we have to really have acritical lens and take a look at
these systems of harm andfigure out how we can subvert

(33:42):
them and how we can make sure wedon't play into this Very
coordinated effort and talkingpoints to double down on this
concept of air quotes biologicalsex.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, I have been doing this activism work for a
long time in the LGBTQ communityand to hear you the way you
just broke it down and talkabout the effects that this can
have not only on transgender andnon-binary women, transgender
and non-binary people, but alsocisgender women, I'm so happy

(34:20):
we're having this conversationbecause I'm sure a lot of people
are going to be listening, justlike I was like whoa this.
It really makes sense.
So you spoke about issues thattransgender and non-binary
people face on a regular basis.
What are some of the issuesthat you face as a non-binary

(34:41):
person or from doing the work inthe community that you see
transgender people face on adaily basis?
That, you think, is somethingthat, with just education and
proper information, we can dobetter as a society.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Sure, that's a great question.
So for me, as a non-binaryperson, that was kind of like
tying back in to me, being likeoh well, there's a new category
of human that I have to teachadults about, and it's funny.
People will say what will wetell the children about
transgender people?
And I'm like those are theeasiest people to talk to

(35:16):
because they're very direct.
They just go listen are you aboy or a girl?
Like they want to know.
They're like I've heard thatthose are the two kinds of ways
to be and I want to know whichone you are.
And I'm like cool, great, soI'm neither of those.
I am a third gender person.
And they're like I've neverheard of that and I'm like yeah,
I had an either.

(35:37):
That's very fair, but that'swhat I am.
I'm not a boy or a girl.
And they're like oh, okay, andyou can kind of like see them
thinking about a little andthey're like well, can I like
pat your dog?
And they're like this is.
They just want to move on.
The adults are the ones who havethis baggage we bring into
conversations and we've got allthis like these rigid ideas, and

(36:00):
we're very like stuck in ourways and young folks are just
like trying to understand theworld they want to know.
They're at an age, many of them, where they're just trying to
pick up this information.
So, yeah, it's a lot, I guess,to tell people hi, I'm a third
kind of human you've never heardof and it's really

(36:20):
disappointing because thirdgender people have existed to
quote Shige Sakurai, who is thefounder of pronouns day since
time immemorial and we'veexisted in cultures and
societies all throughout theworld and, kind of speaking, to
like this eugenics effort todefine a binary biological sex
for the reasons of antiblackness and the patriarchy

(36:43):
those two together.
There's also been an effort tonot have people really know
anything about the third genderpeople who many times in their
communities and societies,leaders were folks who were
offering advice, of wisdom, andthe reason that sometimes people

(37:07):
have extra things to offer toour society who have had
multiple gender experiences isthat there's just a lot of
interesting things that happenwhen you're the same person and
people can't decide which of thecategories you're in and they
treat you differently dependingon which category they think

(37:30):
you're in.
My gender presentation throughmy own medical transition has
changed over time, I'm sure,probably since the last time
that we've seen each other, I'mnot going to be as messy.
What that means is like I havethese like ways of testing how
the world which of the two mostpopular genders is like.
To call them I'm being put inin the moment is how it would.
Honorifics people use for me,what pronouns people use for me.

(37:52):
That tells me like I'm doing ascience experiment every single
day.
I'm like walking out in theworld and the cashier is like
okay, ma'am, what can I get foryou?
And I'm like all right, well,there, you've given me some data
on how you're seeing me.
And then if I walk into thecourthouse and I'm in a suit and
I'm wearing my mask, then I'llbe like hello, sir.

(38:14):
And I'm like okay, cool.
Well, there we go Nowcollecting all the genders here
in the moment, and none of themare mine, but I'm having a whole
experience.
So I think that way of beingsomewhat liquid, I suppose, is a
positive way of thinking aboutit, where you're moving through

(38:35):
society's perceptions of you,but you're still the same human.
I am, on the same day, a sirand a ma'am, and sometimes
people argue with each other.
I'm like nobody wants to ask mebecause I'm here, I know,
actually, but I'm not intotalking about yourself.
So that experience cancertainly provide, I guess, just

(38:58):
a different lens on it, onexperiences and on perspectives.
That is unique and I think thatis one of the beautiful gifts
that the trans community ispotentially able to offer our
society, when we're given thespace and the breathing room
right to do so.
So that's kind of how it playsout for me a little bit.

(39:20):
And there's no like magical waythat trans people are exempted
from the rules of our society.
So I am trans but I have to.
When I have a friend whochanged pronouns, I still have
to practice, like there's not amagical switch that makes us
exempt from all of these biasesthat are baked in to our society

(39:44):
.
Like we still have to do thework things everybody else, like
I make sure I'm going to takemy time and go like I've reused
my cat as an example.
Her pronouns are are she, her?
But you know she tells me oneday that they're different.
I'm going to have to practice alittle bit.
I'm going to be like Basil.
They asked me for dinnerbecause it's like dinner time

(40:05):
for her and she's trying to makesure that.
I know, and I know it justslipped up.
So I'm going to say they makesure I know, and that's how we
correct ourselves right, gobackwards and say a simple
correction and keep it moving.
So that's how it answered forme as a non-binary person.
Then you had a second question.
Can you remind me?

Speaker 3 (40:24):
What are some of the challenges you think the
transgender and non-binarypeople face in society?
That could make us better?
I think you answer it.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, okay, I like what you said about kids.
It's so true, people are notadvocates and allies.
They're often are so worriedabout the kids, but they're the
most accepting, they're the mostcurious.
One of our guests, sonny Drake,a trans man, actually said that
his niece was really very muchhis advocate.

(40:54):
She would correct people andsay, no, it's he or no, it's my
uncle, not my aunt.
We had the same experience whenwe were out at a party and we
were dancing and then we kissedand this little girl was like,
did you just kiss her?
Is she a girl or a boy?

(41:15):
She's a girl.
That's my wife.
She's like girls can getmarried.
And her mom was there and wesaid yes.
She looked at her mom and saidaffirm that.
And her mom said yes, she'slike okay, moving on, keep
dancing.
They're great.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Yeah, they just want to know they're just like what
is happening here.
I'm not familiar with this.
They're just little scientists.
They're taking the data in andthey're like is this real Check
with mom, mom's the boss?
Okay, cool, great, keep moving.
Can I have some ice cream?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Exactly.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout you personally.
We're talking about childhoodand our impressions and
expressions early on.
What do you recall as yourearliest queer memory?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
or feeling yeah, that's a great question.
I think it's hard because a lotof this is like I'm a
neurodiverse person, and so thatI'm sure makes me a lot more
comfortable with flouting someof these societal standards
right, that Cassie was notingwhere you just don't care, it's
like popular, you're just goingto do it's right.

(42:22):
I'm like, oh yeah, that's likehow I've, I don't know, is there
another way?
I'm not familiar with it.
So I think for a lot of us weknow at a very early age that
we're not doing our gendercorrectly I guess it's the best
way to say it and our societyhas really harsh repercussions
for that If you are notperforming gender to its

(42:46):
standards, right.
And so I think that I'm a queerperson also.
So, like my sexual orientationis also queer and back in the
day, like queer was like theumbrella for sexual orientation
and gender, because we justdidn't have terminology like
non-binary back then.
But when I think about I wasdressed a lot in like my cousins

(43:08):
hand me down and these werelike boys clothes and I was
always the kid who was likelaying, I wanted to play the
full contact sport, right, thatwas not uncomfortable for me and
really was like interested inrunning around and climbing tree
or whatever, like all thesethings.
So I know I didn't meet, Iguess, my mom's expectations of

(43:31):
what quote unquote a little girlwould be doing, whether that's
just up to like my genderpresentation or expression and
or just me as like a human Ireally could say.
But for me, being dressed in mycousins older boy cousins hand
me down, it's right I was awarethat I was not dressed like some

(43:54):
of the other girls in schoolwho had dresses on and things
like that, and I really, reallywanted to wear those.
But my mom's not a high femmeat all.
That's not her deal.
So and that's also not what shebelieves in spending money on,
which is like education andhealth, certainly not like the

(44:14):
slucious dresses.
But I was convinced that if Igot one of those then I could
definitely do gender properly.
And when one gets a disposableincome or can buy your own
things, make your own choices.
As it turns out, putting thoseon didn't ever fix that problem.
It was like it felt like therewas like a missing piece that I

(44:36):
needed, like, oh, I just have tohave the right hairstyle, I
have to have a dress that's themost princessy one, and then
when I'm wearing it, it all beright, and that moment never did
come.
So yeah, and then I'm justattracted to people.
So I don't understand really,actually, that people have

(44:59):
gender preferences in theirdating and I'm like people
really do and that's a realthing.
But that's not my experience atall, so I don't really know
what that's like.
And it was very clear thatthat's not how our society
expects things to be.
And I think one of the commonissues in the bisexual or queer

(45:23):
community, where folks are not aspecific preference for sexual
orientation in terms of who theydate or who they're wanting to
take relationships with, wheretoo straight for the gays hour,
two gay for the straights.
So we're stuck in this middlepart.
But we're also the largestsegment of the community but

(45:44):
have the worst health outcomesand disparities in terms of the
data.
So it's like I don't know.
And then, as a non-binary person, I'm also between the genders,
so there's this don't fit piece.
That's a common theme in mylife and it wasn't one that
always thought well with me,because you know that you don't
belong and you're not fitting in, and the nice thing about

(46:08):
getting older is you stop giving, I care about it.
You're just like.
This is me and I think there'sbeen a little bit in the data of
being since an early age,probably again thanks to being
neurodiverse.
That's one of our specialtiesfor some of us.
But yeah, I think it's reallynice to kind of be solid and
non-apologetic about who I amand I think that I have come to

(46:34):
learn.
I guess gives some of thethings that I've learned I have
come to learn.
I guess gives some other folksin our communities some comfort
in that like, okay, I know Ifeel it and still do feel it
when I'm in a space and buildingcommunity other people who come
before me.
But just knowing that, wow, youcan do this, like that little

(46:55):
girl was like oh, girls can getmarried, you can kiss a girl,
you can have a wife, didn't know.
Noting that filed in my notesfor the future, right, right.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
So you said a few things that I wanted to delve
into a little bit.
So one it sounds like you for awhile try to conform to what
you've seen as appropriate dressand behavior for a particular
gender.
When did you stop trying to fitinto this particular mold?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, I guess my parents have said that I got
really teased in preschool forwearing quote unquote boys
clothes and then I only wantedto wear dresses for some amount
of time and I guess, probablywhen I was about 15, I remember
I decided I was going to shavemy head and it was actually very

(47:50):
, very difficult to talk theperson at the barber shop into
it.
So she cut my dad's hair and wewent to the cotter or something
somewhere else.
Like I didn't go to her, but mydad did and she was really
nervous about it.
She was like okay, well, and Ithink I paid with cup of coins
that I had.

(48:11):
And I was like this ishappening.
I didn't have a job at the timeand was like, okay, I just had
a couple of coins.
So this poor woman, she is likeI cut your dad's hair.
She knows the gender rulesright.
She's like, uh-oh, come in witha bag of coins, like what am I
gonna do?
And she cut it short and I keptbeing like you can keep going,

(48:34):
I'm ready for this.
Then eventually, finally, shedid.
She was very nervous and I waslike, oh well, thank you, this
is great.
And I encountered that a bunchof other times before I got my
own clippers because I was like,wow, that would stop having
this long, it takes an hour andI'm like you could just shave my
head and we'll run.
I had to convince everybody andI guess people cry often when

(48:56):
they've made some sort of badhair choice and I'm like coaxing
them through.
I'm not gonna cry.
Here's a photo.
I've done this before.
I'm authorized to make thisdecision for myself and it's
gonna go well for all of us.
So, yeah, I think like yeah, 15, but then the pressures this

(49:19):
diet year are powerful and justkeep trying.
So it was like 15,.
It was like shaving my head.
It was around the time thatSigourney Muir movie where, like
alien, and then yeah, there wasjust a lot of head shaving at
the time and I was like cool cando that.
That seems closer than theother things.
So I'm gonna try that one andsee where we go.

(49:39):
But yeah, probably not until Idon't know.
Probably maybe even as late aslike 2010 or so is probably when
I stopped wearing quote unquotegirls clothes.
I mean I got some girls pantsand things.
Like I'm not like, oh, I willnever in Kenover wear those.

(50:01):
But I remember my mom.
We were going to a wedding andso I was wearing a suit that I
put together from various likefamily members' outfits or
whatever.
It was like just try to combinesomething that would make me
feel comfortable.
And she was concerned.
She was like so are you nevergonna wear dresses and skirts
again?
Like I don't like to say never,but this is what feels good for

(50:26):
now, making signed promises orsomething either way actually,
and I was really lucky to nothave the reaction that I think a
lot of my friends and certainlyfolks that our organization
serves had.
But yeah, I think it was aprocess through my life to just
have, I think, confidence rightto allow these gender norms and

(50:48):
you can be a quote, unquote,tomboy or any of these things.
And I always like to say thereare these repercussions for not
doing your gender properly aredifferent for different
components of our community andso for folks who are assigned a
female at birth I'm a child ofthe 80s was like you can be
anything, you could be thepresident, you can play sports,

(51:10):
maybe even some contact football.
There's someone who would do inthat.
There's not a lot of people,but maybe one, and I was like
that was the messaging.
But folks who are assigned maleat birth, they don't get that
messaging.
They're not like you could be aballerina, you could be a
teacher and a nurse and you cando anything, because those are
valuable things in our societythat contribute to our wellbeing

(51:31):
and we want you to do them andthat's okay and good.
We don't send that message.
So, I feel like there's a littlemore flexibility on one side,
and it does end.
The flexibility has a cutoffwhere people are like, mm,
you've crossed the line and nowthat's not okay, this is bad.
So yeah, it takes time to kindof go all right, I'm gonna do

(51:53):
this, this is who I am, this isme.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yes, I was gonna ask how did your family respond to
that shaved head, the firstshaved head incident, or to you
really, like you said, youdescribed, with your mom kind of
picking up on, that you wereleaning towards one particular
way in your gender expression.
How did they take it?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
My parents are like oh, when the first time I came
out, you never came out with aword Like I am bisexual.
It was the 90s.
It was not a good time to quoteunquote be bisexual Like it was
the time of girls gone wild.
Like no, it was not a funconnotation for that, it was
like that's the word.
But people have a lot ofunplated connotations for things

(52:45):
and I was in high school.
I was not trying to have that.
I was well aware and certainlya feminist at that age was like
this is not gonna go well tohave this perspective.
But I was like, oh, this is mygirlfriend and that was kind of
how I did it, which also verydiverse way.
They're like you didn't comeout right.

(53:06):
Not that I'm like, yep, thatsounds like me.
Yep, I do it the way everybodyelse does.
That sounds on brand.
And then later, yeah, I endedup writing a letter when I
decided to legally change myname.
The head shaving, I think myparents preferred over the hair
dyeing.
They did not like that.

(53:27):
My mom's never dyed her hairever and she'd like chemicals
are bad, so I was not supposedto do that.
And I remember trying to dye myhair with Kool-Aid one time
everyone was doing, but I didn'tknow the key component in that
it has to be sugar-free.
So in reality, I just had a lotof hair that was all stuck
together, oh God, and she didhelp me.

(53:51):
But I got a lot of lectures andit was a painful and pleasant
process.
So I certainly got the I toldyou so on that one.
So I guess, to answer yourquestion with my parents, they
certainly took their time, Ithink, to like really understand
things, probably because I alsodidn't have this like I am this
, and then they can attach alabel to that.

(54:14):
But there certainly were notrans folks in my life when I
was younger.
That wasn't something that theythought of.
And queer folks being queer wasnot necessarily really bad, but
I think, yeah, they had aprocess of understanding for
sure.
It wasn't like you can't dothis.
I certainly had a much betterexperience than many of our

(54:35):
community, but sometimes also,we don't tell those stories of,
hey, I had this amazingexperience, or actually my
experience was just fine.
It was fine, it wasn't bad, itwasn't like, oh my God, we're so
glad to have a queer kid, likethat's amazing.
Yay, Not like a party, that'snot their style really either.

(54:55):
They're just kind of like ohokay, well, longer health is
okay, or whatever.
It was certainly a much morerelaxed experience than it could
have been.
I suppose is the best way toexplain it.
But yeah, the hair wascertainly like okay, fine, but
the tattoos were a much bigproblem.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I kind of Lisa Rebellon.
Yeah, I can relate to yourparents a little bit.
And what was like versus whatwas she?
She had shaved head tattoos.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, my mom has cried many times about my
tattoos.
Yeah, oh God, she's not anymore.
But yeah, jewish tattoos notRight I?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
keep forgetting that.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, that's a touchy subject but I mean, I've talked
to a fair number of peopleabout this and I think a lot of
us who are trans and they'reelements of medical transition
that we don't even know how toput into words or our bodies we
want to have a way to adjust ourphysical bodies and there are

(56:10):
certainly a lot of us who havepiercings and hair dye and
tattoos is a way to like I needto have some element of control
over this body that I'm livingin and I don't know what's right
and those things kind of help alittle bit.
But yeah, I've had thisconversation with a few other

(56:30):
folks who are kind of moreheavily tattooed or have those
things that are like dye theirhair, wanting to access just a
different way of modifying ourappearance, and who, ultimately,
are sometimes feeling less ofthat need not always Once we're
accessing the kind of medicalcare that we need to feel

(56:51):
correct in our body.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
And that makes a lot of sense on every thought about
it.
But you say it.
It definitely makes sense.
So did you have any concernsabout being queer, or were you
just like?
This is just who I am.
I'm figuring it out and it iswhat it is.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
I mean people right, Like not wanting to say and use
the word bisexual back when Ihad first come out, because my
friends would always want toknow well, okay, but who are you
gonna marry?
Like?
Which would do you like better?
Which of the two genders, thetwo most popular genders, are
you gonna end up with?
And, I think, understanding howsociety views queer people.

(57:35):
Now we have really amazingevidence of, like how we queer
code villains and Disney moviesand all this kind of stuff.
So we're all just part of thissociety and that's why, like our
younger folks again, I don'twanna glorify that our younger
folks are having this mucheasier ride.
They're totally fine, that'strue, but there's maybe a little

(57:58):
bit less.
There's still all the queercharacters and the villains are
often so queer coded in much ofmedia, but I think that there
are at least a few less exampleswhere that indoctrination right
, that queerness and transnessis bad and deviant and
unacceptable.
It doesn't have a place in oursociety.

(58:18):
That they're like just walkinginto their selves and their
adulthood with a little bit lessof that and that's really
powerful.
And I see that in terms of whatthey're asking for, how they
envision things and how they'relooking out for other people,
Like you're talking about yourother guest, who's niece was
like demanding that peopleaddress correctly.

(58:42):
Like the young folks are doingthat with each other.
They're fiercely protective oftheir fellow classmates and that
is just really really wonderful.
So, to answer your question, Igrew up with open eyes of
exactly how our society viewsthings.
I was lucky enough to grow upin a county where had access to

(59:05):
a world-class education and alot of different experiences to
my own, and in Montgomery Countythe schools that I attended,
many students had a differentlived experience, either through
race, through immigration,through family life, whatever,
then my own and that was reallya powerful experience that I
talked to a lot of my peers andmost people didn't have Many

(59:28):
people even who grew up incities.
They're like well, the city hasa lot of neighborhoods that
aren't diverse and so I lived ina city, but everybody in my
school there's like a majorityof only one race or only two
races and there's a very likethere weren't a lot of other
lived experiences and culturalnorms that folks grew up with.

(59:49):
So I really feel grateful forgrowing up, but, like Cassie was
talking about, with PrinceGeorge's County.
Sometimes I refer to MontgomeryCounty as Pleasantville, right
when we go At our diversity andit's very like everything is
fine here and you bring up aproblem and people are like I
would really like you to not dothat, Please stop.

(01:00:10):
That's not my style.
So I think, yeah, I was verylucky to have access to
education and books.
When you're a weird little kid,you spend a lot of time reading
books sometimes and that openeda lot of doors and a lot of
possibilities for me in terms ofhow I see the world and

(01:00:31):
perspectives that I didn't live.
So, yeah, I was very well awarethat being queer was not cool,
but I was also like, well, thisis what it is.
So here I go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah.
What do you love most aboutbeing queer?

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, so being queer is?
It gives me, it is myself, whoI am.
It's not like a very intrinsicto the core of my being.
It influences everything fromthe way I build chosen family
and community to the way I, mypolitical focus, my interest in

(01:01:10):
social justice.
It informs absolutelyeverything in my life.
It's such a core and centralpart of my being.
So I love being queer for thatreason, because I don't really
know who I would be if I wasn'tqueer and I can't really imagine

(01:01:30):
a whole alternate lifetrajectory for myself.
So I'm really my community forBetter Forest.
Just like chosen family isfamily, so no one can hurt you
like your family and nobody canlove you like your family.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Exactly so.
Yeah, what's been your mostchallenging experience as a
queer person?

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
I think, just knowing that the deck is stacked right
and how to navigate that period,we are in Maryland in a
position that's unbelievable tome in terms of our community
power, access to making positivechange that I never could have
dreamed of.

(01:02:13):
But there's also there's thenational level of concerns for
our community as well being ininternational concerns there are
.
We make our plans of how totravel and how to move in the
world because, considering ourwell-being and our safety
running this organization, Icertainly have concerns about my

(01:02:36):
personal safety with thenarrative that goes out and
around now.
So I think all of the best andthen all of the most challenging
pieces all rolled up into one.
So I think those are some ofthe biggest challenges that I
have is like just knowing thatthere's going to be the fight
and again I'm really gratefulfor how it was raised and for

(01:02:58):
that other really core piece ofmy identity, my Jewish heritage
and that, frankly,intergenerational trauma right
that gives me this lens of likeit's a precarity right of your
position in the world and youknow it, and I think the two of
those together are kind ofinextricable for me.

(01:03:20):
It's hard to know where theinfluence of one lens off and
where the other one comes inthere also at times have been at
odds with each other, right,Because, yeah, Christian folks
are not the only folks in ourcommunity to have religious
trauma, and but there are alsomany beautiful pieces of Judaism
and a lot of folks who arereimagining Judaism in extremely

(01:03:43):
positive ways, and there are alot of really cool queer and
trans rabbis and leaders in thefaith community who do that.
So, yeah, I think it's likeeverything else.
There's these really beautifulpositives and then there's also
the true kind of unabridged,unvarnished reality of we know

(01:04:04):
that I usually say like I'mgoing to be doing this work of
liberation for the rest of mylife, whether formally or
informally.
Right, and I think there is amental load and a cost to that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Right, yeah, definitely, it's something you
said.
I really stood out.
This conversation is reallyinteresting to know that in 2023
in the United States of America, land off the free.
You have to be in fear for yoursafety because you're standing
up for equality.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yep, things change and then they actually sometimes
stay a little bit the same.
But I guess that hope piecereally is so key because this
work can make it hard to get outof bed every day and I think a
lot of folks in our communityare flat out terrified, right,

(01:05:00):
they're just very afraid andthat's by design.
So I almost feel like thefeisty one in me is like you
will not make me afraid,actually, and you don't have
that power and that control overme and that's what you want.
So you're not going to havethat.
But again, there are thosetimes when there's a concern.
You're like well, okay, thistime going to be the time that I

(01:05:22):
have a serious problem.
But I just remember all of theamazing ancestors and elders who
sometimes gave their lives forthe fact that I am mostly able
to walk down the street and notfear if I'm going to get
arrested for quote unquotecross-dressing and then I'm not
going to have my picture put inthe newspaper as a sexual
deviant and lose my job.

(01:05:44):
But I also have not always hada safe space and employment to
be my full self, right, likesometimes there were different
dress codes for me than therewere for other people at work,
and I think a lot of us might beable to relate to some of that.
But having a hope and knowingthat it's not just me and we're

(01:06:04):
not alone in this work is whatkeeps it all moving forward.
Wow that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
What advice would you give to your younger self?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Just like.
Things are going to be possiblethat you could never dream of.
Like so many things are goingto happen and there's going to
be unbelievable both pain andbeauty in the future for you.
I think you already know that,that both of those things will
happen.
But yeah, we're just going tohave this ability to make change

(01:06:37):
and it's going to be becausethere are those people right,
who are the neighbors in Germanywho just turn their head and
all that, and those are folkshere in the US and always have
been and we have that legacyhere and that is not unique to
some other country or one livedexperience.
But there are those folks.
but then there are also going tobe the people who are those

(01:07:00):
helpers, like the Mr Rogers,like find the helpers there are
those folks who are going toopen doors, who are going to
take personal risk to help youand help our community, and
those folks are going to just,yeah, like smooth out things in
ways that will give us theability to really functionally

(01:07:21):
and foundationally make real,real change that will impact our
communities' lives and ourgenerations moving forward.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
This has been a great conversation.
There's more things I could askfor the same.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Yeah, I'll be honest, but it's, it's.
I know Leah and I always have aconversation, but I'm telling
you I would never dove into somuch stuff and it's like I could
just keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
We'll schedule a second one, maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Yeah, so any last words, any wisdom you want to
impart on our audience beyondwhat you already?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
have.
Thank you, yeah, I guess justan appreciation.
I think I shared that I'velistened to almost all.
I get a little lost becausesometimes it skips around a bit
while I'm walking the dog, so Ilistened to almost all of the
podcast episodes that y'all havedone.
I'm just a deep appreciationfor the work that you are doing
in our community to uplift inthe platform our community,

(01:08:22):
because the voices that you'vehad and featured are powerful at
like that podcast and hearingfrom our community I'm just
trying to walk my dog and startmy day and that's like a really
cool.
There's a lot of podcasts and Ilistened to some of them, but
that one is just a very tangibleway for me to know that, yes,

(01:08:45):
we are all not alone in thiswork and we're all working on
our corner of the work indifferent places and in
different ways with ourdifferent skill sets.
So it's like feeling not alone.
It's a whole list of exactlyhow we're all known alone and
it's engaging.
Y'all are thoughtful andintentional about how you

(01:09:05):
approach it.
So I don't know, I'm likeeverybody needs to like.
I know that's always not theway of the podcast, but turn
them like back the other way alittle bit and go give y'all the
serious props for creating thisplatform and this kind of
beautiful tapestry love letterthat you're writing and
delivering to our little earbudsevery time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Thank you.
When we started the podcast, Iwas like, we know, with the
COVID as well and other stuff,our community sometimes are the
ones that are left behind, right, and our voices are not being
heard.
And we decided you know whatwe're going to do a podcast.

(01:09:50):
This may not be earl, but we'regoing to do a podcast where
people can tell their truth,right, and be themselves.
It's not scripted Because, asyou say, I've learned so much
since we started this podcastand I'm out here in the
community doing the work and Ithought I knew so much and doing
this, I was that man.
There's just so much that wedon't know and also show the

(01:10:13):
beauty of our community too.
It's not because peoplesometimes categorize people in
our community and freaks and allother stuff, and we are the
backbone of most movements.
That's moving us forward.
All right, it's okay.
Listeners, here you have it LeeBlinder at Washington DC native.

(01:10:37):
They are the founder andexecutive director of Trans
Maryland.
They have been a leader in thecommunity, fighting for equality
, justice and rights for all inLGBTQIA plus community and
beyond, focusing on transgenderand non-binary rights.
Lee was at the forefront of theID bill in Maryland to make it
possible for everyone inMaryland to be properly gendered

(01:11:00):
on their ID.
Thank you, lee, for being on aqueer understanding.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
It was a pleasure having you on Thank you so much,
cassie D'Angelo, you're welcome, thank you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Lee Blinder, Trans Maryland

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

All Episodes

Lee Blinder, Trans Maryland

Dateline NBC