July 31, 2023 • 57 mins
Ever felt stuck or bogged down by a problem that seems impossible to resolve, no matter what action or attempt to find a solution? What if we told you that every predicament has a resolution waiting to be discovered? We navigate through Deepak Chopra's three phases of awareness, starting with the concept of 'contracted awareness.' We uncover how this state can trigger feelings of being confined in our problems, manifesting as physical and emotional symptoms. This episode encourages us to turn inwards, harness the power of positive thinking, and expand our awareness.
We all carry a set of assumptions that shape our perspectives and expectations, but have you ever stopped to question them? We can achieve a profound shift in our outlook by challenging these norms. Our brains are wired to fill in the gaps when confronted with the unknown, often leading to unhealthy expectations. While this can spark resentment, the wisdom of Buddhist principles provides us with a road map to manage these expectations and diffuse potential conflict.
As we dig deeper, we unravel the spiritual power of feelings and breath, exploring how our belief systems and personal values influence our emotional responses. Challenging someone's core beliefs can provoke anger and defensiveness, as these beliefs are intertwined with their identities. We provide actionable insights on navigating these situations, fostering a more understanding and peaceful dialogue. Finally, we delve into the transformative power of awareness, breath, and love – keys that unlock a higher level of consciousness. So, plug in your headphones and join us on this enlightening journey to self-discovery, spiritual growth, and Solutions!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to a therapist, a Buddhist and you,
brought to you by the recoverycollective in Annapolis,
maryland.
My name is Luke Duboy and I'mhere with Zalma, my co-host.
Hey, luke, what's going on?
Maybe we should say our co-host, because it's a therapist, a
Buddhist and you, yeah.
So we've got our our listenershere today.
So I want to explore.
Well, before we explore ourtopic.
(00:30):
Last episode I didn't reallytalk about people liking
subscribing, but now that weliterally have thousands of
lessons and downloads prettywild it's hard for me to wrap my
head around thousands.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I do want to go back to looking at some of the
statistics that almost 70% ofour listeners all are from Apple
.
So the neat thing about youApple listeners out there and
thank you for listening Again,we do appreciate it.
Apple has an advantage in termsof helping us with there's
(01:08):
these stars, and you can give usfour or five stars.
Five stars if you really likeus.
If you don't want to give usfive stars, just you know, fast
forward 10 seconds.
But Apple, unlike some of theother platforms, gives you an
opportunity to leave a customerreview.
So if, in your heart, you're sodesired to thank us in any way,
(01:32):
please give us a review.
And since 70% of you guys aredoing it in Apple and we have
thousands of listeners, we wouldlove to see a couple more
ratings and, most importantly,reviews.
And, of course, I think thebest thing you can do is, if
you've found some of the thingsthat we are saying and the
(01:52):
topics we're focusing on, aswe're talking about all things
health and wellness please shareit.
Please share this podcast withother potential listeners,
because that's how we've beenorganically growing to thousands
of listeners.
So we appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, it's great and yes, you've mentioned earlier,
before you started recording,that we've been doing this for
more than half a year.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, and we just sit just over the half a year mark.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I love it.
I love it in a way that this iskind of like part of my routine
now and I got a lot.
I get a lot out of this andit's also like unfolding very
naturally, which has been great.
I do listen to it just to likesee where we're.
At late night I usually have along drive after putting the
kids to sleep at theirgrandparents and I listen to it
(02:39):
and I'll say, oh, wow, you know,there's like a growth from
January to here and how weevolve and guess we've.
Yeah, it's quite, quiteremarkable.
So I'm really glad that we getto do this.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I've been hesitant.
We're getting more listeners isthe more we release episodes
and the topics we're talkingabout, and more and more people
are checking out their firstepisode.
What a therapist a Buddhist andyou can do for you.
Forget what the title is called, but I'm almost nervous to
listen to ourselves on thatfirst episode.
(03:11):
But I'll have to go back andlisten because people are
interested.
So thank you guys for listening,even if you don't leave a
review or a rating.
Thanks for listening and pleaseshare.
Please share, yeah, thank you.
So the topic today I'm going toask you a question and then
we'll go back to who has spokenon this topic, but kind of the
(03:33):
essence of what we're talkingabout is all do you believe that
every problem is open to aspiritual solution?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, that's a very good question and the answer is
yes for me, which comes with.
The premise is that in mybelief I don't know if this is
just my personal belief or aBuddhist belief, I'm not sure
but the scene world come fromthe unseen.
So the visible world comes fromthe invisible that I don't have
(04:04):
access to 100%.
So the other way is true, thatif there's a problem, it's
coming from the unseen world, sothat problem can be solved with
the spiritual solution.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I can resonate with that so much when you say the
answer can come from the unseen.
So often when I have a problem,it's not the tangible kind of
hey, there's a pothole, it's notfalling to the pothole, go
around it.
Yes, those things still happento me, but often my answers or
(04:37):
my solutions are from the unseen, which we'll talk about for
sure.
So there's this fella asspiritual in nature, I would say
, and his name is Deepak Chopra,for those of you who don't know
who he is.
He's certainly a prominentfigure in the field of holistic
health, alternative medicine,spirituality, meditation,
personal development and goes onand on and on.
(04:58):
And he's an Indian American,author, physician and really big
and influential, one of theinfluential voices in the mind
body wellness movement.
And that's certainly somethingthat we do here at the Recovery
Collective, with looking atindividuals integratively and
holistically, functionally, withthe mind, body and spiritual
(05:19):
connection.
So he believes there's threephases of awareness and we're
going to connect this tospiritual solutions potentially.
And the first level of awarenesshe calls it contracted
awareness.
Contraction, contractedawareness the visual I often
(05:42):
give people when they're in thislevel of awareness.
If I contract my bicep Rightnow, I'm making like a bicep
curl fist and I'm puttingresistance on my fist with the
other arm to make sure that mybicep's still contracted.
And if I hold this bicepcontraction for minutes,
(06:03):
potentially hours, you justobserving what's going to happen
to this contraction in my arm.
If I continue to stay incontraction, there's going to be
a strain.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yep At the bicep we're at.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yep, soreness, what else is going to happen?
Fatigue, yeah, not only withthe bicep, but I got all these
other muscles that are workingand stabilizing and are
beginning to contract too.
So even if I stop having itcontracted or Allah the problem
I'm going to feel it residuallyin other places, so much so if
(06:39):
it stays contracted for too long, even when I do get out of that
contraction, I might feel itfor days afterwards.
So that's a visible way to talkabout what we mean by
contracted awareness.
And another way I explain it.
It's that limited consciousnessand when someone comes, whether
it's a family member, whethersomeone comes to therapy,
(07:01):
someone at work and it's theexample I often give is man, I
keep that asshole boss.
No matter where I work, Ialways have an asshole boss.
Another example of contractedawareness could be gosh, no
matter how responsible I am withmoney, I keep getting in these
(07:22):
financial issues or in debt, orI just man, things keep
happening and I just keep havingissues with money.
What are some other examplesthat come to your mind when you
think of contracted awareness?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, first of all, this is very interesting because
I feel I'm listening and almostinterviewing you on this topic
and I have a limited knowledgeof this individual, but I'm very
curious about this topic, soI'm glad we're talking about it.
But yeah, contracted awareness,what comes to mind is that the
narrow or channel vision orlimited reality and being
(08:02):
limited to what I believe, whatI see, and then just the world
ending there.
That's it, nothing beyond that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
It's when we feel stuck in something, it's when we
feel trapped or, like you said,our perceptions are narrowed
and restricted.
Our thoughts and emotions arejust keeping us into the level
of the problem.
So if you ever doubt, wait aminute, am I in contracted
awareness?
Right now, in doing group work,people would talk about their
(08:30):
problems and sometimes someonewould give them a perspective.
And then the first person hesaid man, I keep getting in
these toxic relationships and Idon't know why, or why do I
always pick these assholepartners?
And then someone might give aperspective or their experience,
and their first response isyeah, but that's not in this
(08:52):
case.
Or someone gives anotherperspective and they go.
I tried that.
Well, that won't work, becauseI know these are examples of no
matter what we do, no matterwhat action we take, we feel
like we're just digging a deeperhole, and that's definitely a
parameter of am I in contractedawareness?
Well, if you're frustrated andyou feel like you are doing
(09:16):
action and you feel like you'rejust digging a deeper hole, well
, that's an example ofcontracted awareness.
It sucks, we can feel that waywith we talked about it in terms
of relationships with work,with finances, with our mental
health.
Most people feel they're inthat stuck and that suck, with
(09:36):
anxiety or depression and, nomatter what I'm doing, I just
can't get out of this.
So I think we can all relate todifferent aspects of being in
contracted awareness.
We want to get out of the stuckand suck.
Deepak talks about shifting ourconsciousness from the level of
the problem to the level ofsolution.
So we want to go from the levelof the problem to a whole
(10:00):
different viewpoint.
He calls this expandedawareness.
The belief is we have to changethese five things and if we
change these five things, we'reable to go from problem to
solution.
You ready to hear them out?
Yeah, so we'll talk about thesefive things, we'll break them
down and then we go okay, andhow do we actually?
We know what these five thingsare and how do we make that
(10:21):
change?
So the five things that we movetowards expanded awareness,
perspective, assumptions,expectations, beliefs and
feelings, or mood or feelings.
So these things areinterconnected elements and if
we do that if we change thesefive things, then we go from
problem to solution.
(10:41):
Let's break them down.
What do you know aboutperspective?
What is a perspective?
Why is that important?
You talked about this already,oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, it is like my upbringing information that I've
received beliefs that are builtover the years, or basically,
unexamined beliefs that I neverquestioned.
So that's what comes to mindabout perspectives, a viewpoint
that was never really questioned, but also, at the same time,
(11:14):
it's not really my fault that Ihave this, because it's because
of all the information that weregiven to me up until this point
, which was never challenged.
That's that's what comes tomind about perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
If I'm in once again, let's all feel being in the
problem and that sucks.
If my perspective is you weredoing me wrong and dirty, well,
I don't have to takeaccountability.
If my perspective is youwronged me or I can't get out of
this, well, we're going to.
We're going to continue to fillthat perspective and put energy
(11:48):
towards that perspective.
Here's an example.
I do couples work and or familywork sometimes, and often with,
let's say, addictions.
We have a client that just gotout of treatment and we have a
family member or a husband or aspouse, and often there is an
argument and the argument is thespouse sees one thing and the
(12:12):
client sees another and earlyrecovery, and I begin to butt
heads.
Their perspectives aredifferent.
So often what I try to do is Igo a little time out, take a
little pause, we stop for asecond and I go Johnny boy,
you're here because you want toget sober, right?
No, okay, good, sally, may,you're here because you want to
(12:39):
take care of yourself and alsosupport his recovery, right?
Oh good.
So we have the same perspectiveon that that you want to get
sober and you want to supporthim and protect yourself in this
recovery process.
Everybody see eye-eye on thatGreat.
So there's a starting point interms of seeing out of a similar
lens.
Often when we're in the level ofthe problem you guys can't see
(13:01):
me at home, but it's like aracehorse with blinders my
perception is my reality.
So when my perception is you'rethe problem, when my perception
is it won't get better, well,it can be hard to change that if
we stay in that level ofconsciousness, stay in that
level of the problem.
Often I throw a book down onthe table and I ask someone
(13:24):
where's the front of that book?
And they say it's the cover.
And then someone might say,well, no, it's the top of the
book.
And someone might actually openup and say, well, this is the
front of the book, meaning what?
They're all right, but ifyou're stuck in your perspective
, then the other person's wrongand you don't have the
flexibility to change yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So problem to the solution.
I like what you're saying,especially because that makes me
appreciate conflicts andproblems, because when I have a
perspective and if things arejust going great with that, I
never challenge it.
But if there is a conflict inrelation to that perspective, it
becomes an opportunity for meto be like oh, is there a cost
(14:06):
to this?
What is this perspectivecosting me?
Am I losing my happiness?
Am I losing relationships?
Am I losing money?
Whatever it may be.
So it becomes like anopportunity to examine that
perspective.
Is it actually doing me anygood?
Maybe it has done me good sofar, but maybe it's time for me
to let it go or look at it froma different point of view.
(14:26):
So that's what I'm hearingabout perspective and I do want
to go back to like.
This is not really the theme ofit, but what I understand as a
Buddhist, in my Buddhist world,is just the fact that, from the
point of view of the karma, thatit's not my fault when I have
these perspectives, because itcan even dig into the deeper
hole that.
(14:46):
Why am I this way?
So, because in our traditionthere are like causes and
conditions.
I was talking to my mom aboutthis.
She's been taking someAbhidhamma classes, which is a
Buddhist philosophy or Buddhistpsychology classes, and we're
just talking and she was justmaking a comment about what
she's learned in the class isthat, let's say we were talking
(15:06):
and then she was like if youlook to a flower that you see,
like for that flower to comeinto your consciousness, to your
eyes, a lot of millions andmillions of factors get involved
for it to happen and thesesenses meet and it happens.
So same thing was true withthese perspectives that there
are just so many things that Ihave no control over which came
(15:28):
together for me to have thisperspective.
So in a way, I am kind of it'snot my fault that I come here,
but at the same time, I'mresponsible to challenge that if
it's causing me more problemsthan not.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, well said.
And one of the things that makechanging a perspective
challenging to change is thenext thing assumptions.
Now, I know English isn't yourfirst language, but have you
ever heard of the saying of whatthey say about assumptions?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What is?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
it.
Assumptions comes from the wordassume and if we do assumptions
it makes an ass out of you andme.
Gotcha play of words.
So play of words, but it's alegitimate one.
When do we make assumptions?
There's a reason in aphysiological.
(16:20):
Is it physiological?
There's a brain reason why wemake assumptions.
Why do we make assumptions?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, I don't know about the brain too much, but I
do know that brain has atendency to fill in the gaps.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
If it doesn't know, it just make it up, yep.
So one way to look at it is andwe've talked about this we have.
What separates us as a speciesin a lot of ways is this thing
in the front of our head calledthe cerebral cortex, which
literally means we get toforward think.
So we forward, think, just likeyou said, to fill in the gaps.
(16:56):
So when we're cavemen and Ihave to decide, do I have to
protect my kids and my fire fromthe saber tooth or this lion or
this bear, oh my.
So I have to make an assumption.
Now.
It's evolved over the years andwhen there's this level of
(17:17):
unknown, we fill in the gap,sometimes incorrectly.
Now we're in the level of theproblem.
If we're making assumptionsthat fuel the perspective of I
don't have the power that I'dlike to that.
It's Josh Moe's fault that Iwasn't wrong that you see what
I'm getting at.
(17:37):
Assumptions can fuel and haveunhealthy perspective.
Assumptions can keep the gap ofuncertainty in an unhealthy way
.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, it's not based on facts, but it's based on
opinions or projections,speculations, fear yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So we've got two things so far.
We've got when we're in thelevel of the problem.
We need to find a way to changeour perspective, our
assumptions, expectations what afun one Expectations.
In the recovery communityyou'll hear people say that our
expectations are inverselyproportional to our serenity,
(18:17):
meaning if I have lessexpectations on people, places
and things, the more peace ofmind, calmness of mind and
serenity I have.
The more expectations thataren't met, the less peace of
mind and serenity I have.
Any experience with that?
Yeah, lots Me too.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, yeah, it goes back to that thing again.
Like my existence in this world, my brain has a navigational
system to determine where I'm at.
So in a way it's functioned,but at the same time it comes
with some defects, someloopholes.
So if I think aboutexpectations, it comes from a
(18:56):
programming of what has happenedbefore.
So this has happened before, italways happened that way.
So I'm going to expect this tohappen, based on what has
happened before.
But at the same time thatbecomes like a fuel for that
contracted awareness, becauseI'm like limited to my past.
What has happened, so it'sgoing to be exactly the same way
, and I have expectations out ofthis.
(19:18):
But life is new every day.
It's not the same, even thebreath that.
I breathe, just now, in the nextmoment, everything's new.
So if I'm operating from thatexpectations and limited, I'm
kind of missing the beauty ofthe beauty of the life.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I think expectations can sometimes fuel
depression, anxiety, fear, a lotof these things.
I often break down expectationsin two forms positive
expectations and negativeexpectations.
So positive expectations arebased on desire, want, buddhist
language cravings.
Negative expectations are basedon fear, and me, as a
(20:00):
recovering alcoholic addict, Ithink I often ran with positive
and negative expectations at thesame time.
I want this to happen, in myfear that it's not going to
happen.
So I had like a double whammyof expectations which often led
to resentments.
What you can't read my mind.
You should know that I want youto bring home dinner tonight
(20:24):
and you didn't meet thatexpectation.
Because I didn't communicatethat, because I made an
assumption that you would know.
But that was just myperspective.
See what I'm getting at howthese things compound on each
other, so expectations can bechallenging for a lot of people
Knowing for you as long as Ihave, there's certainly a lot of
Buddhist principles that helpwith expectations.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
An example.
Are you asking for an example?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You do seem to have a lot of I called you the salt
and no serenity for a reason.
A couple of episodes back.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I'm a human being.
I struggle with expectations alot.
Yeah, that is for sure.
It has so much power over mywell-being negatively when I
have expectations, because it isas if I know, and I'm trying to
relate that with meditation andBuddhist principle.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
But that's really coming to mind.
I'll relate it to 12-stepprinciples.
The first three steps are awonderful way of counteracting
expectations.
Well, if I desire one something, whether it's drugs, alcohol,
whether it's sex, whether it's arace, whatever it is I can
(21:44):
control the things that I can.
But there's a lot of it that Iam powerless over.
If I've got a felony charge, Ihave a desire not to go to jail.
So I did the probation, I didthe treatment, I did all those
things, but I am powerless overwhat that judge decides to do.
Now I can go batshit crazy,worrying that I'm going to get
(22:07):
three months of jail time.
But step two says let me decideto turn our will in our life
over to the care of God as weunderstood him.
Well, what do I understand?
Step three I decide to turn itover, and if I do so I might get
some serenity out of the deal.
So I work backwards.
Step three says made a decisionto turn our will in our lives
(22:29):
over to the care of God as weunderstood him.
So if I turn my will, if I go,here's my expectations I turn it
over to the higher power.
I just turn it over.
Well, why do I do that Becauseit's going to help me with step
two, that I believe that thispower is going to restore me to
sanity and my favorite way ofdefining sanity is serenity
comes from my peace of mind.
(22:50):
Well, if my expectations arewhether it's fear of me going to
jail or fear of me or my desirenot to go to jail positive and
negative that okay, if I do mypart, I'll turn it over.
My higher power is going totake care of me and, whatever
the unmanageability andperilousness is with the legal
situation, I don't haveunhealthy expectations.
(23:11):
There's a difference betweenhealthy boundaries and
expectations, and I imaginethere's some people listening,
whether they're in the car ordriving home from work or
working out and going.
What's the difference betweenexpectations and healthy
boundaries?
Well, they can be the same.
Sure, let's look at this in away that's fueling contracted
awareness.
Let's look at this in terms ofwhat expectation or unhealthy
(23:36):
boundary is fueling the level ofthe problem, and that's what we
need to change.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, I don't want to jump ahead, but it's already
projecting towards what's coming, you know, because the
expectation, the best way totackle that, is that what do I
even know?
Like anything is possible.
Kind of feeling that because,yeah, it is true, right In your
situation, what you have saidabout the legal system and I
have multiple examples in my ownlife too, where, like, how am I
(24:04):
even sure that this is going tohappen?
Like because there are just somany factors that are unseen, so
anything is possible in thismoment kind of feeling is the
opposite.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I remember being in front of that judge, language
from the heart, speaking fromthe heart and just realizing I
did everything in my power thatI could for my health and my
recovery and I was looking atthree months of jail time.
But I had this calmness andpeace and I didn't have any
expectations and my lawyerbelieved that I was going to do
(24:37):
some jail time.
But I was open to whatever.
I didn't have any expectations.
I was at peace.
I didn't have it.
I wasn't run by desire or fear.
I was in a level ofquote-unquote, radical
acceptance.
I was at peace.
I didn't have a unhealthydesire or fear and I was okay
(24:58):
with the unmanageability in thatposition.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Luckily I didn't do any jail time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
All right, let's go to the next one.
So we've done perspective,assumptions, expectations, and
now we're on beliefs.
So the way I explain beliefs isI try to give it even more
depth, more meaning thateverybody has core beliefs.
And I'll say it in another waywhat I believe is is often
(25:29):
perceived as who I am.
So if you challenge my corebelief system, you're going to
piss me off.
That makes sense.
Yeah, and we see a lot of thatnow.
We see that divisiveness withpolitics and other things going
on now and people are reallygood at divisiveness and
(25:51):
separating and focusing on thedifferences.
And if you challenge my beliefsystem, I'm going to be angry at
you, because do you know what Imean by that?
What I believe is who I am.
Do you know what I mean by that?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, it's a form of identity.
Who?
do I think I am, yeah, and yeahI mean.
All these things are quiteinterconnected assumptions,
perspective, beliefs,expectations, which for me as a
Buddhist, goes back to thatconcept of anatta, which is the
absence of self.
If I start listing everything Ithink I am, the more I do that,
(26:28):
the more I realize that wait,who am I?
Really?
Kind of feeling.
But these beliefs are whatkeeps us in a society, who I
think I am, as an identity,national identity, religious
identity, whatever it is, but Ihold on to it because that's how
I exist, this is who I am, butit's also, at the same time, can
(26:48):
be costly, especially if thereis an event or a race, an event
or somebody who challenged that.
I get offended.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And I don't think I'm going out in a limb when I say
that everybody has prejudice.
Now, I am a social worker.
I was raised by a Methodistpreacher.
My dad and I have a beard andlong hair, but I promise you I'm
not Jesus.
But my point being, even thoughI was brought up in this, you
(27:22):
know, honest, open, loving,accepting people for who they
are, not as I would have them,type of environment and went
into a service-oriented field.
Every human being has prejudice.
And why is that important tobring up?
Because you know I've gotbelief systems that need to be
changed.
I'll give you a great example,being as if you've listened to
(27:45):
any episodes I'll have to bringup.
I was a former clinical directorof a treatment facility.
And then these people I'm oftendealing with, individuals that
have done six to eight tours inIraq, iran and Afghanistan, and
they come to this treatmentfacility and then they're there
for substance use and mentalhealth and there's this guy
sitting there that's tellingthem when to go, where to go,
(28:07):
except everything, except whento go to the bathroom.
And then we bring up the stepsand this person that's done six
to eight tours, who's verydecorated, and then he looks at
the steps.
That says you are powerlessover drugs and alcohol.
Your life had becomeunmanageable.
Surrender to win.
Do you think that's even in hisvocabulary?
Hell, no.
(28:30):
So he had an understandablebelief system that.
No, that's a negativeconnotation.
I don't know how you expect meto get sober through the steps.
Totally get it.
But it was neat because part ofthe perspective that the group
gave him.
He says man, we're not worriedabout the things that you can
manage Rock on, we're worriedabout the things that you can't
(28:55):
manage, the stuff that you notthe stuff that you have control
over and power over.
You keep that.
You keep that power andmanageability.
We want to help you with thestuff that you realize that you
don't have control over.
And it was just like one ofthose light bulb moments of oh,
(29:15):
I'm not waving the white flag inthe sense of, yes, you can have
all of me, good and bad, butI'm not giving you the things
that are rocking and rollinggood in my life, I'm just
turning over the parts that Ican't control the way I want to.
And it was just like thisfreeing moment for him his
(29:36):
perspective change all of asudden, the negative connotation
of unmanageability andpowerlessness and turning, is
you know, all of his will over.
And it was just a really neatexperience to see like, all of a
sudden, expectations, beliefs,all began to change a little bit
and he became open to 12 steps,just from other people's
experiences and other people'sperspectives.
It was, it was powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is a good topic and I do want to
mention, to kind of like puttingin, some Buddhist thoughts
about the fact that nothing isall or nothing, you know.
I have to step away from thatall or nothing kind of way of
thinking, because it's okay tohave these expectations,
perspectives, because it makesme function in the world.
(30:19):
You know In our that that driedout Buddhism called Abhidharma,
which has translated us thehigher teachings of Buddhism,
which is like a Buddhistphilosophy, psychology, and
there are some elements whichI'll just simplify is that
there's a conventional truth andultimate truth.
So it's very important toidentify those two, because
(30:39):
conventional truth, for example,can be like Luke, you will ask
me, how did you get here to theoffice?
I'll be like, yeah, I came herewith a car.
So that's a conventional truth.
When I say car because we had anagreement about car.
But then when you ask me, whatis the car?
Is it the wheel, is it thesteering, is it the engine?
There's no such thing as car.
But it helps me to communicateto you that, yeah, this is how I
(31:01):
got here.
But then if you ask me, like,what is the car?
I have no answer, you know.
But then the ultimate truth ismore of like gravity, that it
doesn't care if it's somebodyjumps off the really high
building.
It doesn't matter how tall,small, you know, what race, it
doesn't matter.
There's a ultimate truth to it,so just wanted to mention that.
(31:24):
I think we'll probably end uptalking about that when we get
to the expended awareness.
I feel like that's where thingsopen up.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, it's the belief systems that are fueling
contracted awareness.
It's the expectations that arefueling the problem and being
able to go or question and we'llbreak that down here in a
little bit Is this fueling theproblem?
We'll jump more on that in asecond.
And the last thing feelings.
(31:51):
I think don't think this is ahot take.
Maybe it is.
I think feelings are spiritual.
I'll ask it in this way too,zao, do you know what I mean and
do you believe feelings arespiritual?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, emotions, feelings, they're spontaneous,
so I would say spiritual, andalso they are unseen in a way.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
They come out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So I feel like that's what you mean by spiritual that
it is alive and it is electric.
There is charge to it.
That's how I think aboutemotions, feelings.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, we asked in the beginning does every problem
have a spiritual solution?
And the word spirituality canhave a thousand different
definitions.
Two potential definitions arethere's a rhyme or reason why
things happen the way they do,so, even though they're
spontaneous?
There might be a reason why wefeel the things we do.
(32:52):
I also believe that there'sthis level of in terms of
recovery, language powerlessnessbehind the initial feeling.
If you were to cuss me out andcall me an asshole, I might get
angry.
Now I might not be able to stopthat first emotion or that
(33:16):
second emotion Now notparallelist over the other
emotions, but that initialemotion or two.
Where is that coming from, thisintuitive piece that I'm
powerless over?
Some people say love isspirituality, Love is higher
power.
It's a powerful thing.
We can't control who we do anddon't love, blah, blah, blah.
(33:37):
But also when it comes tospirituality and feelings that
you could be feeling a certainway and you could try to hide it
, like you're wearing abulletproof Kevlar jacket.
And if you're feeling sad andnot show it any of it, we could
(33:57):
just talk about sports for fiveor 10 minutes and even though
you've got this angst or deepdepression and we don't talk
about it, I could walk out ofthis room and I could feel a
little different.
So we might call that empath orempathy, or we can feel we
don't even have to talk about it, but we can feel with someone,
(34:20):
or even at some level, whatsomeone else is feeling.
To me that's, yes, it's anemotional connection, but I
think that's a spiritualconnection.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, that's the thing about feelings is that we
make it worse, especially ifit's something negative, if we
suppress it.
That, to me, is why it isspiritual Isn't a way that it
cannot be hidden anyway, so ittakes more effort to hide it.
So I guess it also goes back tosome of the upbringing based on
an individual that if feelingsare not expressed in a family,
(34:52):
you don't feel comfortablesharing about it, but actually
you make it worse by trapping itall.
But it also goes back to thatthing about beliefs and values
by unexamined beliefs andunexamined values, because when
receiving some information solike when somebody curse, it
just sound, but then it passedthrough my belief system, my
(35:13):
linguistic skills and then, oh,that's offensive.
So it's just a bunch ofinformation passing through my
values and some kind of feelingsare created.
So, but yeah, based on theperson's background and trauma
or abuse, whatever it may be, Ithink the thing is not to be
lack of feelings but to respondappropriately, because I can
(35:34):
have a very extreme or sensitivebelief system that is finding
everything offensive, but Iwould rather have a belief
system that is more acceptingand also leaves room.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
So, yeah, so as we go over these five things the last
one being feelings, and werelate this to spirituality and
them being feelings, beingspiritual, we shift this from
change these things from problemto solution.
(36:12):
So Deepak says there's a way toactually change these things,
and it's an acronym and it canbe a powerful technique.
It's simple but it's.
I think it can be an effectiveway to guide us toward expanded
awareness.
I think we did a really goodjob of breaking down these
(36:33):
relatively simple words tochange.
Now let's, let's find out whatDeepak recommends.
So the word and it's ultimatelyan acronym is stop, s-t-o-p.
So the first S is yes, stop.
I don't know about you, but whenI'm in the level of a problem
(36:55):
or a significant problem, I'moften like a chicken with my
head chopped off, meaning I'mgoing everywhere but nowhere,
that I might be doing action,like we talked about at the
beginning of the episode.
Whatever action I take, I mightbe going in circles.
I'm just digging a deeper hole.
I'm saying I know, yeah, butthat won't work.
Well, if I'm, whatever I'mdoing is not working, I might as
(37:17):
well stop.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, stop to me also means pausing, like taking a
break.
That's why I secretly leavetime for my meditation.
You know, no matter, I have areally good discipline.
No matter what's happening,even if the situation is calling
my name, I'm like no, I needthis ten minute space where I
don't even move, sit in silenceand stillness.
(37:40):
And yeah, those are powerfulmoments for me to pause.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That stop that silence, that stillness is more
valuable than any action youcould take in those 10 minutes.
It seems like yeah, and it'sjust sometimes when we stop we
can realize we're in acontracted state.
We can realize, oh wait, I'mfacing these challenges.
Oh, there's just negativity.
I can take a moment and take alittle mental break, often the
(38:08):
form of mindfulness.
So, first S stop, then the T isto take three deep breaths.
Three deep breaths.
Why three deep breaths?
What does?
Our last episode was onBreathwork.
Thank you for that lovelyarticle.
If you haven't listened yet, goback to last week's episode and
(38:31):
enjoy.
Why take three deep breaths?
What happens when you takethree deep breaths?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, awareness, right.
Speaking of awareness that,yeah, it expands, because
breathing it grounds you intothe present moment and it's also
life, right?
So I don't know, there's alwayssomething powerful about
breathing.
So sometimes we're notbreathing, breathing affects our
mind.
(38:56):
So when somebody tells me,breathe deeply for three times,
that brings oxygen to my brain.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Zal, I can't tell you whether it's this office or
wherever I've worked and someonecomes in my office like a
chicken with their head choppedoff but is connected, and I say,
all right, let's take a breath,and they go.
No, take a breath.
So, listeners, as long asyou're not driving a car, what
I'd like you to do is be with ussymbolically in this room,
(39:28):
pause in the moment and takethree deep breaths with us.
Ready, Take a little bit deeperand one more.
Now, what I love about everytime I do this whether I've
(39:51):
demonstrated this in a group,often a group setting you feel
the energy in the room shift.
You feel a lighter energeticspace within yourself and within
the room, and it's amazing howit's happened.
Every time there's only two ofus here, but I'm curious to see
(40:13):
what people feel.
Go, man, I just took thesethree deep breaths and you're
right, when we take a deepbreath, we get oxygen to all of
our extremities, including ourbrain.
Now I'll give you anotherexample of breath.
We talked about this last weekin our breathwork episode.
(40:34):
The Latin word for breath isspiritus.
When I'm in the level of theproblem, I often need to be
inspired.
Spirit again, potentiallybreath spirit.
It gives us life.
When I pause and I take threedeep breaths, I let in maybe a
(40:58):
higher power, I let in thisenergy force for sure that keeps
me alive.
I pause.
And another T.
One belief is when we take thesethree deep breaths, I think
that's good enough, but he alsobelieves we should transform our
mood and think of one specificfeeling, and that word is love.
(41:20):
So when we take three deepbreaths, we think we inhale love
, we inhale light, we inhalethis energy, this power force
that transforms our mood.
I don't know about you, butwhen I feel love I don't feel
anger.
When I feel legitimate love, Idon't feel fear.
(41:42):
When I feel love, I don't feelanxiety.
So there's this level of andlove can be anything.
Our friend Harold Green, who didan episode on the 12
sub-principles in everyday life,outside of 12 step meetings he
(42:05):
talks about when he takes thesethree deep breaths, when he
meditates, when he sits andstops in silence.
His version of love is goingback when he was seven years old
in Atlanta, fishing in afishing pond.
That's his version of love.
Love can be children, it can behigher power, anything you want
.
But when we allow that in andpart of that breath.
(42:28):
I don't know if anyone else hasnoticed this.
When I take a deep breath itmight be the most millimicro
nano part of that second of thatbreath.
I am not thinking about a damnthing Now when I'm in the level
of the problem and my brain isracing a mile a minute and I'm
running around like chicken withmy head chopped off.
(42:49):
It might be so quick, I don'tnotice it, but at least in that
moment, as short or as quick asit is, I'm not thinking about
anything and I think that's verypowerful.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, this is too much, probably, of a
simplification, but I guess allfeelings fall into these two
umbrella of love and fear.
The thing about breath is that,well, the thing about worries
and anxieties come from a placeof fear that I'm not going to be
okay, I'm not okay, I'm notokay.
But when you take pause andbreathe, you're like, oh, I'm
(43:25):
safe.
There's a sense of safetybecause breath keeps me alive.
And when you're able to breathe, you are like, oh, I am safe
and I have everything that Ineed physically in this moment,
although my thoughts are sayingotherwise.
When you connect with breathing, your body realizes that, oh,
I'm alive and I'm safe.
The temperature is okay, maybeI need to eat, whatever.
(43:47):
Maybe you react as this wholesituation.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
It goes from negative expectation negative or
fear-based expectation to noexpectation, just observance.
Yeah, I did this one time for agroup of people 20, 25 people
and I said transform your moodand think of love.
And there was one client whosaid I don't know about you,
(44:12):
luke, but I haven't felt love ina very long time.
Oh, I felt that.
I felt that he felt that Ibelieve that he believed that
belief.
But the coolest thing happenedthe other 20, 23 people in that
group said brother man, it'sokay, we love you.
(44:33):
And he just broke down crying.
I get chills thinking about that.
He felt love.
His belief system that hehasn't felt love, can't feel
love, doesn't believe in it, allof a sudden gone.
That to me is spiritual, to me,that kind of connection.
(44:53):
You can't make that up.
So, whatever that love is,there's three deep breaths.
Stop, take three deep breaths,transform your mood, think of
love.
And then we, oh, we observe.
After we take these deepbreaths, we observe inward.
When I'm in contractedawareness, my muscles are tight,
(45:16):
my heart's beating, I'm tense,I'm like man.
Let me just relax.
Sometimes I take more thanthree deep breaths.
Let me relax my body, let meslow down and then, we begin to
be curious and observe thatinner landscape.
Man, why am I angry at Saulright now?
Why was my expectation he washere and it wasn't met?
(45:36):
Man, why is my?
And then we start looking atour perspective, our assumptions
, our expectations, ourunhealthy beliefs and all of a
sudden, my hand pointingoutwards goes and I begin to
notice the things about myselfand the unhealthy perspectives,
expectations, beliefs, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I mean, there probably is a very serious
intention behind that sequence.
Right, I cannot start with theobserving while I'm in it.
I need to pause first.
I need to take a deep breath.
Only then I can have anon-judgmental awareness point
of view of what's happening.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I might need that healthy, spiritual, inspired
something that is me, that wasblocked, to help me change those
things Absolutely.
And we begin to observe thosethings and all of a sudden we
might have that shift inconsciousness.
All of a sudden we might gofrom the level of the problem to
a level of solution.
(46:33):
And then P we proceed.
We proceed with kindness, loveand compassion.
Now, what I tell people is youmight not be getting kindness,
love and compassion back, butthere's no reason at Karma
episode Feel free to check thatout there's no reason why we
can't proceed with kindness,love and compassion even though
(46:53):
we believe we're not getting itin return.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, that reminds me of that famous prayer that I've
heard in the Tosta Fellowship Iguess it is a translation about
it's better to understand thanto be understood it is better to
love than to be loved.
It makes me think of that, thatwe are capable of all that, but
I'm more attracted to be lovedthan to be un.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, I want to be understood, I want to be loved.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
I don't want to be the one who loved in that moment
, but it gets returned down theline, Even if other people don't
return.
I return to myself when I comefrom a place of love.
I am love, so it's kind ofcrazy, how it's all internal,
which will probably lead us intothe open or expanded awareness.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Tell me.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Their perspective towards a more positive and
open-minded outlook.
We begin to be the change.
Like you said at the beginning,it's the unseen.
Sometimes I call it thenon-tangible.
It's not the.
I'm bumping my shin on thatpiece of furniture.
Let me just move that piece offurniture.
Sometimes my problems are that,but often my problems with
(48:03):
people work, relationship,finances are a more, shall I say
, spiritual way of looking atthings.
It's not always the tangiblethings that I can change in my
life or all of a sudden thingsopen up for me.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I like that Awareness is vast.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Embracing.
Expanded awareness leads toincreased clarity, intuition,
wisdom, decision-making, justthat ability to shift to whether
you call it your higher part ofself or this expanded awareness
, all of a sudden, because ourfeelings are different, our
belief systems not so rooted inthe problem but rooted in the
(48:45):
solution, we're more likely towalk on a solution path.
So what does that?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
sound.
How does that sound?
It sounds good.
Yeah, it sounds pretty good.
And that coincides with maybeI'm not sure if I haven't, I'm
not sure if I have mentioned itin the podcast, Maybe I've
mentioned it to clients andfriends and stuff like that
about what meditation does toour mind when we meditate,
especially when I have a problem.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
So like so you're saying the stop acronym happens
in meditation.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Maybe go ahead oh yeah.
So, like when I have a problemand when I meditate, it's not an
elimination of that problem,but I become aware of other
things.
That is outside of that problem.
So it's more about awareness.
Because we have very limitedinformation, we can choose to
just see these things, but thepausing, the stopping, the
(49:39):
observation, it makes us becomeaware of so many other things
that are happening already butI'm not paying attention to, you
know.
So when there is a problem,it's not about how do I solve
this, how do I know.
It's more about what else can Isee?
The truth of the situation hereand that's what I'm hearing
about the expanded awareness isthat what is actually going on
here.
What is it that I'm not seeing?
(50:00):
And then becoming aware of that.
Otherwise, I'm so channelvision that this is what's
happening and this is all I know.
The more I think about it, thebigger it grows.
You know about the problem, butthe trick or the solution,
which is more of spiritual innature, is that what is it that
I'm not seeing here?
What else can I see?
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's that mind-body connection, it's that mind-body
awareness.
But here's my oh wait, there'smore is all Third level?
There's a third level.
Yeah, tell me what's that?
Contracted, expanded.
And the third level, or thehighest level, awareness he
calls pure awareness.
So if we look at that word,pure purity not just that good
(50:43):
shit when it comes to drugs,purity is blemishless, it's no
faults.
This is a level where there areno problems exist.
Okay, let me change theperspective of verbiage for some
people.
Oh, of course there's problems.
I agree.
Every challenge is a creativeopportunity.
(51:03):
You feel completely alignedwith the forces of nature.
Your inner and outer worldsreflect each other without
confusion or conflict.
As solutions arise from thelevel of true self, they meet no
resistance.
All your desires lead to thebest result for you and your
surroundings.
As you move from level one tolevel three, life's challenges
(51:28):
become what they are meant to bea step closer to your true self
.
Now that I've had a description, what do you think of pure
awareness?
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, pure means originality, the origins of
things.
That's how I interpret it, Evento relate that with the breath
too.
This is actually from one of myfavorite American Buddhist
monks that I regularly listen to.
I think he just said itcasually, but it sticks with me.
About the fact that I'mrelating this to the purity is
(51:57):
that the reason why we payattention to the breath is that
everything else came later.
Breath came first.
My resentment, my belief system, my feelings, the way I view
the world, the only came later.
That is how it all began.
So that's how I relate withthat bliss or purity of
awareness is that this is whereeverything all came from.
(52:20):
It's available, it's pureawareness and it's just
non-judgmental.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
It's all good kind of feeling it's the way it's
supposed to be, it's acceptance.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
But I think it would be helpful to conclude it all to
maybe we've already mentionedit that we do have access to
that.
I don't know if we've deliveredthat message through this
episode that it is possiblethrough holistic approach,
meditation, therapy, whatever itis.
We do have access to that pureawareness.
But now we're like an instantgratification.
(52:55):
It's not like a button switch,but it takes practice and it
takes patience.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I'll say need I need other people's perspectives to
help me with this?
Am I always able to do this bymyself?
No, that's where I thinktherapy, meditation, support
groups are very helpful to getto this higher part of self.
That's how you want to look atit.
I joke and I say, okay, pureawareness, that might be Gandhi,
(53:25):
that might be Mother Teresa,that might be Buddha.
I'll settle for expandedawareness.
Thank you very much.
Well, yeah, I think it's a goodperspective on a way to find a
solution.
These can be parallel withspiritual principles, buddhist
(53:47):
principles, recovery principles.
They certainly align with a lotof things that we certainly
talk about on this podcast.
As I plugged a few otherepisodes throughout this episode
.
Yeah, let's do a conclusion,shall we?
As we end this transformativejourney, we hope that you the
most essential part of ourpodcast, you guys and gals that
(54:08):
are listening have gainedvaluable insights into this
essence of awareness and itsprofound impact on our lives.
Throughout this podcast, weexplored the levels of awareness
, from contracted to expandedand, ultimately, pure awareness,
and how they influence ourapproach to life's challenges.
The truth is, every problem weencounter is an invitation to
(54:29):
delve deeper into our spiritualselves.
By expanding our awareness, weopen ourselves up to a world of
possibilities, moving beyond thelimitations of fear, confusion
and struggle.
As we shift from contracted toexpanded awareness, we begin to
see solutions emerge, obstaclesbecome easier to overcome and
our vision extends beyond theconflicts that once held us back
(54:52):
.
Embracing expanded awareness isnot a mere abstract concept,
but a powerful tool for personaltransformation and growth.
Through mindfulness,self-reflection and a genuine
connection with our true selves,we can harness the energy of
pure awareness, where problemsdissolve into creative
opportunities and feel alignedwith life's natural flow.
Zal has shared insights fromthe Buddhist perspective,
(55:15):
highlighting the importance ofinner harmony and living in
alignment with the forces ofnature.
His wisdom reminds us thatembracing pure awareness makes
us free from resistance,effortlessly navigating life's
challenges with, hopefully,grace and wisdom.
As a therapist, I've witnessedthe incredible power of expanded
awareness in my client's lives.
Shifting from contracted toexpanded awareness can indeed be
(55:38):
a life-changing experience.
It empowers us to break freefrom limiting beliefs, overcome
fears and connect with ourdeepest desires.
So we encourage you to embracethe journey of awareness and
spirituality in your own lifeThrough mindfulness, meditate
and engage in self-reflection.
Cultivate a compassionate andloving relationship with
(55:58):
yourself and others.
By doing so, you'll unlock theimmense potential within you
leading to a moving, fulfillingand purposeful life.
But remember, every problem isindeed open to spiritual
solution and the journey towardsthe solution begins by
expanding your awareness,sometimes by stopping Together.
(56:18):
Let's embark on the path ofgrowth, love and transformation.
Thank you for joining us onthis remarkable journey.
We're grateful for yourpresence and look forward to
exploring more profound topicsin the world of awareness and
spirituality, and all things,health and wellness.
So until then, embrace theessence of awareness and may
your life be filled with peace,joy and boundless possibilities.
(56:42):
My name is Luke.
Thank you all for listening.
This is Zau.
See you next time.
Welcome to a therapist, a Buddhist and you,
brought to you by the recoverycollective in Annapolis,
maryland.
My name is Luke Duboy and I'mhere with Zalma, my co-host.
Hey, luke, what's going on?
Maybe we should say our co-host, because it's a therapist, a
Buddhist and you, yeah.
So we've got our our listenershere today.
So I want to explore.
Well, before we explore ourtopic.
(00:30):
Last episode I didn't reallytalk about people liking
subscribing, but now that weliterally have thousands of
lessons and downloads prettywild it's hard for me to wrap my
head around thousands.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I do want to go back to looking at some of the
statistics that almost 70% ofour listeners all are from Apple
.
So the neat thing about youApple listeners out there and
thank you for listening Again,we do appreciate it.
Apple has an advantage in termsof helping us with there's
(01:08):
these stars, and you can give usfour or five stars.
Five stars if you really likeus.
If you don't want to give usfive stars, just you know, fast
forward 10 seconds.
But Apple, unlike some of theother platforms, gives you an
opportunity to leave a customerreview.
So if, in your heart, you're sodesired to thank us in any way,
(01:32):
please give us a review.
And since 70% of you guys aredoing it in Apple and we have
thousands of listeners, we wouldlove to see a couple more
ratings and, most importantly,reviews.
And, of course, I think thebest thing you can do is, if
you've found some of the thingsthat we are saying and the
(01:52):
topics we're focusing on, aswe're talking about all things
health and wellness please shareit.
Please share this podcast withother potential listeners,
because that's how we've beenorganically growing to thousands
of listeners.
So we appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, it's great and yes, you've mentioned earlier,
before you started recording,that we've been doing this for
more than half a year.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, and we just sit just over the half a year mark.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I love it.
I love it in a way that this iskind of like part of my routine
now and I got a lot.
I get a lot out of this andit's also like unfolding very
naturally, which has been great.
I do listen to it just to likesee where we're.
At late night I usually have along drive after putting the
kids to sleep at theirgrandparents and I listen to it
(02:39):
and I'll say, oh, wow, you know,there's like a growth from
January to here and how weevolve and guess we've.
Yeah, it's quite, quiteremarkable.
So I'm really glad that we getto do this.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I've been hesitant.
We're getting more listeners isthe more we release episodes
and the topics we're talkingabout, and more and more people
are checking out their firstepisode.
What a therapist a Buddhist andyou can do for you.
Forget what the title is called, but I'm almost nervous to
listen to ourselves on thatfirst episode.
(03:11):
But I'll have to go back andlisten because people are
interested.
So thank you guys for listening,even if you don't leave a
review or a rating.
Thanks for listening and pleaseshare.
Please share, yeah, thank you.
So the topic today I'm going toask you a question and then
we'll go back to who has spokenon this topic, but kind of the
(03:33):
essence of what we're talkingabout is all do you believe that
every problem is open to aspiritual solution?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, that's a very good question and the answer is
yes for me, which comes with.
The premise is that in mybelief I don't know if this is
just my personal belief or aBuddhist belief, I'm not sure
but the scene world come fromthe unseen.
So the visible world comes fromthe invisible that I don't have
(04:04):
access to 100%.
So the other way is true, thatif there's a problem, it's
coming from the unseen world, sothat problem can be solved with
the spiritual solution.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I can resonate with that so much when you say the
answer can come from the unseen.
So often when I have a problem,it's not the tangible kind of
hey, there's a pothole, it's notfalling to the pothole, go
around it.
Yes, those things still happento me, but often my answers or
(04:37):
my solutions are from the unseen, which we'll talk about for
sure.
So there's this fella asspiritual in nature, I would say
, and his name is Deepak Chopra,for those of you who don't know
who he is.
He's certainly a prominentfigure in the field of holistic
health, alternative medicine,spirituality, meditation,
personal development and goes onand on and on.
(04:58):
And he's an Indian American,author, physician and really big
and influential, one of theinfluential voices in the mind
body wellness movement.
And that's certainly somethingthat we do here at the Recovery
Collective, with looking atindividuals integratively and
holistically, functionally, withthe mind, body and spiritual
(05:19):
connection.
So he believes there's threephases of awareness and we're
going to connect this tospiritual solutions potentially.
And the first level of awarenesshe calls it contracted
awareness.
Contraction, contractedawareness the visual I often
(05:42):
give people when they're in thislevel of awareness.
If I contract my bicep Rightnow, I'm making like a bicep
curl fist and I'm puttingresistance on my fist with the
other arm to make sure that mybicep's still contracted.
And if I hold this bicepcontraction for minutes,
(06:03):
potentially hours, you justobserving what's going to happen
to this contraction in my arm.
If I continue to stay incontraction, there's going to be
a strain.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yep At the bicep we're at.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yep, soreness, what else is going to happen?
Fatigue, yeah, not only withthe bicep, but I got all these
other muscles that are workingand stabilizing and are
beginning to contract too.
So even if I stop having itcontracted or Allah the problem
I'm going to feel it residuallyin other places, so much so if
(06:39):
it stays contracted for too long, even when I do get out of that
contraction, I might feel itfor days afterwards.
So that's a visible way to talkabout what we mean by
contracted awareness.
And another way I explain it.
It's that limited consciousnessand when someone comes, whether
it's a family member, whethersomeone comes to therapy,
(07:01):
someone at work and it's theexample I often give is man, I
keep that asshole boss.
No matter where I work, Ialways have an asshole boss.
Another example of contractedawareness could be gosh, no
matter how responsible I am withmoney, I keep getting in these
(07:22):
financial issues or in debt, orI just man, things keep
happening and I just keep havingissues with money.
What are some other examplesthat come to your mind when you
think of contracted awareness?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, first of all, this is very interesting because
I feel I'm listening and almostinterviewing you on this topic
and I have a limited knowledgeof this individual, but I'm very
curious about this topic, soI'm glad we're talking about it.
But yeah, contracted awareness,what comes to mind is that the
narrow or channel vision orlimited reality and being
(08:02):
limited to what I believe, whatI see, and then just the world
ending there.
That's it, nothing beyond that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
It's when we feel stuck in something, it's when we
feel trapped or, like you said,our perceptions are narrowed
and restricted.
Our thoughts and emotions arejust keeping us into the level
of the problem.
So if you ever doubt, wait aminute, am I in contracted
awareness?
Right now, in doing group work,people would talk about their
(08:30):
problems and sometimes someonewould give them a perspective.
And then the first person hesaid man, I keep getting in
these toxic relationships and Idon't know why, or why do I
always pick these assholepartners?
And then someone might give aperspective or their experience,
and their first response isyeah, but that's not in this
(08:52):
case.
Or someone gives anotherperspective and they go.
I tried that.
Well, that won't work, becauseI know these are examples of no
matter what we do, no matterwhat action we take, we feel
like we're just digging a deeperhole, and that's definitely a
parameter of am I in contractedawareness?
Well, if you're frustrated andyou feel like you are doing
(09:16):
action and you feel like you'rejust digging a deeper hole, well
, that's an example ofcontracted awareness.
It sucks, we can feel that waywith we talked about it in terms
of relationships with work,with finances, with our mental
health.
Most people feel they're inthat stuck and that suck, with
(09:36):
anxiety or depression and, nomatter what I'm doing, I just
can't get out of this.
So I think we can all relate todifferent aspects of being in
contracted awareness.
We want to get out of the stuckand suck.
Deepak talks about shifting ourconsciousness from the level of
the problem to the level ofsolution.
So we want to go from the levelof the problem to a whole
(10:00):
different viewpoint.
He calls this expandedawareness.
The belief is we have to changethese five things and if we
change these five things, we'reable to go from problem to
solution.
You ready to hear them out?
Yeah, so we'll talk about thesefive things, we'll break them
down and then we go okay, andhow do we actually?
We know what these five thingsare and how do we make that
(10:21):
change?
So the five things that we movetowards expanded awareness,
perspective, assumptions,expectations, beliefs and
feelings, or mood or feelings.
So these things areinterconnected elements and if
we do that if we change thesefive things, then we go from
problem to solution.
(10:41):
Let's break them down.
What do you know aboutperspective?
What is a perspective?
Why is that important?
You talked about this already,oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, it is like my upbringing information that I've
received beliefs that are builtover the years, or basically,
unexamined beliefs that I neverquestioned.
So that's what comes to mindabout perspectives, a viewpoint
that was never really questioned, but also, at the same time,
(11:14):
it's not really my fault that Ihave this, because it's because
of all the information that weregiven to me up until this point
, which was never challenged.
That's that's what comes tomind about perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
If I'm in once again, let's all feel being in the
problem and that sucks.
If my perspective is you weredoing me wrong and dirty, well,
I don't have to takeaccountability.
If my perspective is youwronged me or I can't get out of
this, well, we're going to.
We're going to continue to fillthat perspective and put energy
(11:48):
towards that perspective.
Here's an example.
I do couples work and or familywork sometimes, and often with,
let's say, addictions.
We have a client that just gotout of treatment and we have a
family member or a husband or aspouse, and often there is an
argument and the argument is thespouse sees one thing and the
(12:12):
client sees another and earlyrecovery, and I begin to butt
heads.
Their perspectives aredifferent.
So often what I try to do is Igo a little time out, take a
little pause, we stop for asecond and I go Johnny boy,
you're here because you want toget sober, right?
No, okay, good, sally, may,you're here because you want to
(12:39):
take care of yourself and alsosupport his recovery, right?
Oh good.
So we have the same perspectiveon that that you want to get
sober and you want to supporthim and protect yourself in this
recovery process.
Everybody see eye-eye on thatGreat.
So there's a starting point interms of seeing out of a similar
lens.
Often when we're in the level ofthe problem you guys can't see
(13:01):
me at home, but it's like aracehorse with blinders my
perception is my reality.
So when my perception is you'rethe problem, when my perception
is it won't get better, well,it can be hard to change that if
we stay in that level ofconsciousness, stay in that
level of the problem.
Often I throw a book down onthe table and I ask someone
(13:24):
where's the front of that book?
And they say it's the cover.
And then someone might say,well, no, it's the top of the
book.
And someone might actually openup and say, well, this is the
front of the book, meaning what?
They're all right, but ifyou're stuck in your perspective
, then the other person's wrongand you don't have the
flexibility to change yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So problem to the solution.
I like what you're saying,especially because that makes me
appreciate conflicts andproblems, because when I have a
perspective and if things arejust going great with that, I
never challenge it.
But if there is a conflict inrelation to that perspective, it
becomes an opportunity for meto be like oh, is there a cost
(14:06):
to this?
What is this perspectivecosting me?
Am I losing my happiness?
Am I losing relationships?
Am I losing money?
Whatever it may be.
So it becomes like anopportunity to examine that
perspective.
Is it actually doing me anygood?
Maybe it has done me good sofar, but maybe it's time for me
to let it go or look at it froma different point of view.
(14:26):
So that's what I'm hearingabout perspective and I do want
to go back to like.
This is not really the theme ofit, but what I understand as a
Buddhist, in my Buddhist world,is just the fact that, from the
point of view of the karma, thatit's not my fault when I have
these perspectives, because itcan even dig into the deeper
hole that.
(14:46):
Why am I this way?
So, because in our traditionthere are like causes and
conditions.
I was talking to my mom aboutthis.
She's been taking someAbhidhamma classes, which is a
Buddhist philosophy or Buddhistpsychology classes, and we're
just talking and she was justmaking a comment about what
she's learned in the class isthat, let's say we were talking
(15:06):
and then she was like if youlook to a flower that you see,
like for that flower to comeinto your consciousness, to your
eyes, a lot of millions andmillions of factors get involved
for it to happen and thesesenses meet and it happens.
So same thing was true withthese perspectives that there
are just so many things that Ihave no control over which came
(15:28):
together for me to have thisperspective.
So in a way, I am kind of it'snot my fault that I come here,
but at the same time, I'mresponsible to challenge that if
it's causing me more problemsthan not.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, well said.
And one of the things that makechanging a perspective
challenging to change is thenext thing assumptions.
Now, I know English isn't yourfirst language, but have you
ever heard of the saying of whatthey say about assumptions?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What is?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
it.
Assumptions comes from the wordassume and if we do assumptions
it makes an ass out of you andme.
Gotcha play of words.
So play of words, but it's alegitimate one.
When do we make assumptions?
There's a reason in aphysiological.
(16:20):
Is it physiological?
There's a brain reason why wemake assumptions.
Why do we make assumptions?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, I don't know about the brain too much, but I
do know that brain has atendency to fill in the gaps.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
If it doesn't know, it just make it up, yep.
So one way to look at it is andwe've talked about this we have.
What separates us as a speciesin a lot of ways is this thing
in the front of our head calledthe cerebral cortex, which
literally means we get toforward think.
So we forward, think, just likeyou said, to fill in the gaps.
(16:56):
So when we're cavemen and Ihave to decide, do I have to
protect my kids and my fire fromthe saber tooth or this lion or
this bear, oh my.
So I have to make an assumption.
Now.
It's evolved over the years andwhen there's this level of
(17:17):
unknown, we fill in the gap,sometimes incorrectly.
Now we're in the level of theproblem.
If we're making assumptionsthat fuel the perspective of I
don't have the power that I'dlike to that.
It's Josh Moe's fault that Iwasn't wrong that you see what
I'm getting at.
(17:37):
Assumptions can fuel and haveunhealthy perspective.
Assumptions can keep the gap ofuncertainty in an unhealthy way
.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, it's not based on facts, but it's based on
opinions or projections,speculations, fear yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So we've got two things so far.
We've got when we're in thelevel of the problem.
We need to find a way to changeour perspective, our
assumptions, expectations what afun one Expectations.
In the recovery communityyou'll hear people say that our
expectations are inverselyproportional to our serenity,
(18:17):
meaning if I have lessexpectations on people, places
and things, the more peace ofmind, calmness of mind and
serenity I have.
The more expectations thataren't met, the less peace of
mind and serenity I have.
Any experience with that?
Yeah, lots Me too.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, yeah, it goes back to that thing again.
Like my existence in this world, my brain has a navigational
system to determine where I'm at.
So in a way it's functioned,but at the same time it comes
with some defects, someloopholes.
So if I think aboutexpectations, it comes from a
(18:56):
programming of what has happenedbefore.
So this has happened before, italways happened that way.
So I'm going to expect this tohappen, based on what has
happened before.
But at the same time thatbecomes like a fuel for that
contracted awareness, becauseI'm like limited to my past.
What has happened, so it'sgoing to be exactly the same way
, and I have expectations out ofthis.
(19:18):
But life is new every day.
It's not the same, even thebreath that.
I breathe, just now, in the nextmoment, everything's new.
So if I'm operating from thatexpectations and limited, I'm
kind of missing the beauty ofthe beauty of the life.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I think expectations can sometimes fuel
depression, anxiety, fear, a lotof these things.
I often break down expectationsin two forms positive
expectations and negativeexpectations.
So positive expectations arebased on desire, want, buddhist
language cravings.
Negative expectations are basedon fear, and me, as a
(20:00):
recovering alcoholic addict, Ithink I often ran with positive
and negative expectations at thesame time.
I want this to happen, in myfear that it's not going to
happen.
So I had like a double whammyof expectations which often led
to resentments.
What you can't read my mind.
You should know that I want youto bring home dinner tonight
(20:24):
and you didn't meet thatexpectation.
Because I didn't communicatethat, because I made an
assumption that you would know.
But that was just myperspective.
See what I'm getting at howthese things compound on each
other, so expectations can bechallenging for a lot of people
Knowing for you as long as Ihave, there's certainly a lot of
Buddhist principles that helpwith expectations.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
An example.
Are you asking for an example?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You do seem to have a lot of I called you the salt
and no serenity for a reason.
A couple of episodes back.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I'm a human being.
I struggle with expectations alot.
Yeah, that is for sure.
It has so much power over mywell-being negatively when I
have expectations, because it isas if I know, and I'm trying to
relate that with meditation andBuddhist principle.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
But that's really coming to mind.
I'll relate it to 12-stepprinciples.
The first three steps are awonderful way of counteracting
expectations.
Well, if I desire one something, whether it's drugs, alcohol,
whether it's sex, whether it's arace, whatever it is I can
(21:44):
control the things that I can.
But there's a lot of it that Iam powerless over.
If I've got a felony charge, Ihave a desire not to go to jail.
So I did the probation, I didthe treatment, I did all those
things, but I am powerless overwhat that judge decides to do.
Now I can go batshit crazy,worrying that I'm going to get
(22:07):
three months of jail time.
But step two says let me decideto turn our will in our life
over to the care of God as weunderstood him.
Well, what do I understand?
Step three I decide to turn itover, and if I do so I might get
some serenity out of the deal.
So I work backwards.
Step three says made a decisionto turn our will in our lives
(22:29):
over to the care of God as weunderstood him.
So if I turn my will, if I go,here's my expectations I turn it
over to the higher power.
I just turn it over.
Well, why do I do that Becauseit's going to help me with step
two, that I believe that thispower is going to restore me to
sanity and my favorite way ofdefining sanity is serenity
comes from my peace of mind.
(22:50):
Well, if my expectations arewhether it's fear of me going to
jail or fear of me or my desirenot to go to jail positive and
negative that okay, if I do mypart, I'll turn it over.
My higher power is going totake care of me and, whatever
the unmanageability andperilousness is with the legal
situation, I don't haveunhealthy expectations.
(23:11):
There's a difference betweenhealthy boundaries and
expectations, and I imaginethere's some people listening,
whether they're in the car ordriving home from work or
working out and going.
What's the difference betweenexpectations and healthy
boundaries?
Well, they can be the same.
Sure, let's look at this in away that's fueling contracted
awareness.
Let's look at this in terms ofwhat expectation or unhealthy
(23:36):
boundary is fueling the level ofthe problem, and that's what we
need to change.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, I don't want to jump ahead, but it's already
projecting towards what's coming, you know, because the
expectation, the best way totackle that, is that what do I
even know?
Like anything is possible.
Kind of feeling that because,yeah, it is true, right In your
situation, what you have saidabout the legal system and I
have multiple examples in my ownlife too, where, like, how am I
(24:04):
even sure that this is going tohappen?
Like because there are just somany factors that are unseen, so
anything is possible in thismoment kind of feeling is the
opposite.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I remember being in front of that judge, language
from the heart, speaking fromthe heart and just realizing I
did everything in my power thatI could for my health and my
recovery and I was looking atthree months of jail time.
But I had this calmness andpeace and I didn't have any
expectations and my lawyerbelieved that I was going to do
(24:37):
some jail time.
But I was open to whatever.
I didn't have any expectations.
I was at peace.
I didn't have it.
I wasn't run by desire or fear.
I was in a level ofquote-unquote, radical
acceptance.
I was at peace.
I didn't have a unhealthydesire or fear and I was okay
(24:58):
with the unmanageability in thatposition.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Luckily I didn't do any jail time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
All right, let's go to the next one.
So we've done perspective,assumptions, expectations, and
now we're on beliefs.
So the way I explain beliefs isI try to give it even more
depth, more meaning thateverybody has core beliefs.
And I'll say it in another waywhat I believe is is often
(25:29):
perceived as who I am.
So if you challenge my corebelief system, you're going to
piss me off.
That makes sense.
Yeah, and we see a lot of thatnow.
We see that divisiveness withpolitics and other things going
on now and people are reallygood at divisiveness and
(25:51):
separating and focusing on thedifferences.
And if you challenge my beliefsystem, I'm going to be angry at
you, because do you know what Imean by that?
What I believe is who I am.
Do you know what I mean by that?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, it's a form of identity.
Who?
do I think I am, yeah, and yeahI mean.
All these things are quiteinterconnected assumptions,
perspective, beliefs,expectations, which for me as a
Buddhist, goes back to thatconcept of anatta, which is the
absence of self.
If I start listing everything Ithink I am, the more I do that,
(26:28):
the more I realize that wait,who am I?
Really?
Kind of feeling.
But these beliefs are whatkeeps us in a society, who I
think I am, as an identity,national identity, religious
identity, whatever it is, but Ihold on to it because that's how
I exist, this is who I am, butit's also, at the same time, can
(26:48):
be costly, especially if thereis an event or a race, an event
or somebody who challenged that.
I get offended.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And I don't think I'm going out in a limb when I say
that everybody has prejudice.
Now, I am a social worker.
I was raised by a Methodistpreacher.
My dad and I have a beard andlong hair, but I promise you I'm
not Jesus.
But my point being, even thoughI was brought up in this, you
(27:22):
know, honest, open, loving,accepting people for who they
are, not as I would have them,type of environment and went
into a service-oriented field.
Every human being has prejudice.
And why is that important tobring up?
Because you know I've gotbelief systems that need to be
changed.
I'll give you a great example,being as if you've listened to
(27:45):
any episodes I'll have to bringup.
I was a former clinical directorof a treatment facility.
And then these people I'm oftendealing with, individuals that
have done six to eight tours inIraq, iran and Afghanistan, and
they come to this treatmentfacility and then they're there
for substance use and mentalhealth and there's this guy
sitting there that's tellingthem when to go, where to go,
(28:07):
except everything, except whento go to the bathroom.
And then we bring up the stepsand this person that's done six
to eight tours, who's verydecorated, and then he looks at
the steps.
That says you are powerlessover drugs and alcohol.
Your life had becomeunmanageable.
Surrender to win.
Do you think that's even in hisvocabulary?
Hell, no.
(28:30):
So he had an understandablebelief system that.
No, that's a negativeconnotation.
I don't know how you expect meto get sober through the steps.
Totally get it.
But it was neat because part ofthe perspective that the group
gave him.
He says man, we're not worriedabout the things that you can
manage Rock on, we're worriedabout the things that you can't
(28:55):
manage, the stuff that you notthe stuff that you have control
over and power over.
You keep that.
You keep that power andmanageability.
We want to help you with thestuff that you realize that you
don't have control over.
And it was just like one ofthose light bulb moments of oh,
(29:15):
I'm not waving the white flag inthe sense of, yes, you can have
all of me, good and bad, butI'm not giving you the things
that are rocking and rollinggood in my life, I'm just
turning over the parts that Ican't control the way I want to.
And it was just like thisfreeing moment for him his
(29:36):
perspective change all of asudden, the negative connotation
of unmanageability andpowerlessness and turning, is
you know, all of his will over.
And it was just a really neatexperience to see like, all of a
sudden, expectations, beliefs,all began to change a little bit
and he became open to 12 steps,just from other people's
experiences and other people'sperspectives.
It was, it was powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is a good topic and I do want to
mention, to kind of like puttingin, some Buddhist thoughts
about the fact that nothing isall or nothing, you know.
I have to step away from thatall or nothing kind of way of
thinking, because it's okay tohave these expectations,
perspectives, because it makesme function in the world.
(30:19):
You know In our that that driedout Buddhism called Abhidharma,
which has translated us thehigher teachings of Buddhism,
which is like a Buddhistphilosophy, psychology, and
there are some elements whichI'll just simplify is that
there's a conventional truth andultimate truth.
So it's very important toidentify those two, because
(30:39):
conventional truth, for example,can be like Luke, you will ask
me, how did you get here to theoffice?
I'll be like, yeah, I came herewith a car.
So that's a conventional truth.
When I say car because we had anagreement about car.
But then when you ask me, whatis the car?
Is it the wheel, is it thesteering, is it the engine?
There's no such thing as car.
But it helps me to communicateto you that, yeah, this is how I
(31:01):
got here.
But then if you ask me, like,what is the car?
I have no answer, you know.
But then the ultimate truth ismore of like gravity, that it
doesn't care if it's somebodyjumps off the really high
building.
It doesn't matter how tall,small, you know, what race, it
doesn't matter.
There's a ultimate truth to it,so just wanted to mention that.
(31:24):
I think we'll probably end uptalking about that when we get
to the expended awareness.
I feel like that's where thingsopen up.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, it's the belief systems that are fueling
contracted awareness.
It's the expectations that arefueling the problem and being
able to go or question and we'llbreak that down here in a
little bit Is this fueling theproblem?
We'll jump more on that in asecond.
And the last thing feelings.
(31:51):
I think don't think this is ahot take.
Maybe it is.
I think feelings are spiritual.
I'll ask it in this way too,zao, do you know what I mean and
do you believe feelings arespiritual?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, emotions, feelings, they're spontaneous,
so I would say spiritual, andalso they are unseen in a way.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
They come out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So I feel like that's what you mean by spiritual that
it is alive and it is electric.
There is charge to it.
That's how I think aboutemotions, feelings.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, we asked in the beginning does every problem
have a spiritual solution?
And the word spirituality canhave a thousand different
definitions.
Two potential definitions arethere's a rhyme or reason why
things happen the way they do,so, even though they're
spontaneous?
There might be a reason why wefeel the things we do.
(32:52):
I also believe that there'sthis level of in terms of
recovery, language powerlessnessbehind the initial feeling.
If you were to cuss me out andcall me an asshole, I might get
angry.
Now I might not be able to stopthat first emotion or that
(33:16):
second emotion Now notparallelist over the other
emotions, but that initialemotion or two.
Where is that coming from, thisintuitive piece that I'm
powerless over?
Some people say love isspirituality, Love is higher
power.
It's a powerful thing.
We can't control who we do anddon't love, blah, blah, blah.
(33:37):
But also when it comes tospirituality and feelings that
you could be feeling a certainway and you could try to hide it
, like you're wearing abulletproof Kevlar jacket.
And if you're feeling sad andnot show it any of it, we could
(33:57):
just talk about sports for fiveor 10 minutes and even though
you've got this angst or deepdepression and we don't talk
about it, I could walk out ofthis room and I could feel a
little different.
So we might call that empath orempathy, or we can feel we
don't even have to talk about it, but we can feel with someone,
(34:20):
or even at some level, whatsomeone else is feeling.
To me that's, yes, it's anemotional connection, but I
think that's a spiritualconnection.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, that's the thing about feelings is that we
make it worse, especially ifit's something negative, if we
suppress it.
That, to me, is why it isspiritual Isn't a way that it
cannot be hidden anyway, so ittakes more effort to hide it.
So I guess it also goes back tosome of the upbringing based on
an individual that if feelingsare not expressed in a family,
(34:52):
you don't feel comfortablesharing about it, but actually
you make it worse by trapping itall.
But it also goes back to thatthing about beliefs and values
by unexamined beliefs andunexamined values, because when
receiving some information solike when somebody curse, it
just sound, but then it passedthrough my belief system, my
(35:13):
linguistic skills and then, oh,that's offensive.
So it's just a bunch ofinformation passing through my
values and some kind of feelingsare created.
So, but yeah, based on theperson's background and trauma
or abuse, whatever it may be, Ithink the thing is not to be
lack of feelings but to respondappropriately, because I can
(35:34):
have a very extreme or sensitivebelief system that is finding
everything offensive, but Iwould rather have a belief
system that is more acceptingand also leaves room.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
So, yeah, so as we go over these five things the last
one being feelings, and werelate this to spirituality and
them being feelings, beingspiritual, we shift this from
change these things from problemto solution.
(36:12):
So Deepak says there's a way toactually change these things,
and it's an acronym and it canbe a powerful technique.
It's simple but it's.
I think it can be an effectiveway to guide us toward expanded
awareness.
I think we did a really goodjob of breaking down these
(36:33):
relatively simple words tochange.
Now let's, let's find out whatDeepak recommends.
So the word and it's ultimatelyan acronym is stop, s-t-o-p.
So the first S is yes, stop.
I don't know about you, but whenI'm in the level of a problem
(36:55):
or a significant problem, I'moften like a chicken with my
head chopped off, meaning I'mgoing everywhere but nowhere,
that I might be doing action,like we talked about at the
beginning of the episode.
Whatever action I take, I mightbe going in circles.
I'm just digging a deeper hole.
I'm saying I know, yeah, butthat won't work.
Well, if I'm, whatever I'mdoing is not working, I might as
(37:17):
well stop.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, stop to me also means pausing, like taking a
break.
That's why I secretly leavetime for my meditation.
You know, no matter, I have areally good discipline.
No matter what's happening,even if the situation is calling
my name, I'm like no, I needthis ten minute space where I
don't even move, sit in silenceand stillness.
(37:40):
And yeah, those are powerfulmoments for me to pause.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
That stop that silence, that stillness is more
valuable than any action youcould take in those 10 minutes.
It seems like yeah, and it'sjust sometimes when we stop we
can realize we're in acontracted state.
We can realize, oh wait, I'mfacing these challenges.
Oh, there's just negativity.
I can take a moment and take alittle mental break, often the
(38:08):
form of mindfulness.
So, first S stop, then the T isto take three deep breaths.
Three deep breaths.
Why three deep breaths?
What does?
Our last episode was onBreathwork.
Thank you for that lovelyarticle.
If you haven't listened yet, goback to last week's episode and
(38:31):
enjoy.
Why take three deep breaths?
What happens when you takethree deep breaths?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, awareness, right.
Speaking of awareness that,yeah, it expands, because
breathing it grounds you intothe present moment and it's also
life, right?
So I don't know, there's alwayssomething powerful about
breathing.
So sometimes we're notbreathing, breathing affects our
mind.
(38:56):
So when somebody tells me,breathe deeply for three times,
that brings oxygen to my brain.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Zal, I can't tell you whether it's this office or
wherever I've worked and someonecomes in my office like a
chicken with their head choppedoff but is connected, and I say,
all right, let's take a breath,and they go.
No, take a breath.
So, listeners, as long asyou're not driving a car, what
I'd like you to do is be with ussymbolically in this room,
(39:28):
pause in the moment and takethree deep breaths with us.
Ready, Take a little bit deeperand one more.
Now, what I love about everytime I do this whether I've
(39:51):
demonstrated this in a group,often a group setting you feel
the energy in the room shift.
You feel a lighter energeticspace within yourself and within
the room, and it's amazing howit's happened.
Every time there's only two ofus here, but I'm curious to see
(40:13):
what people feel.
Go, man, I just took thesethree deep breaths and you're
right, when we take a deepbreath, we get oxygen to all of
our extremities, including ourbrain.
Now I'll give you anotherexample of breath.
We talked about this last weekin our breathwork episode.
(40:34):
The Latin word for breath isspiritus.
When I'm in the level of theproblem, I often need to be
inspired.
Spirit again, potentiallybreath spirit.
It gives us life.
When I pause and I take threedeep breaths, I let in maybe a
(40:58):
higher power, I let in thisenergy force for sure that keeps
me alive.
I pause.
And another T.
One belief is when we take thesethree deep breaths, I think
that's good enough, but he alsobelieves we should transform our
mood and think of one specificfeeling, and that word is love.
(41:20):
So when we take three deepbreaths, we think we inhale love
, we inhale light, we inhalethis energy, this power force
that transforms our mood.
I don't know about you, butwhen I feel love I don't feel
anger.
When I feel legitimate love, Idon't feel fear.
(41:42):
When I feel love, I don't feelanxiety.
So there's this level of andlove can be anything.
Our friend Harold Green, who didan episode on the 12
sub-principles in everyday life,outside of 12 step meetings he
(42:05):
talks about when he takes thesethree deep breaths, when he
meditates, when he sits andstops in silence.
His version of love is goingback when he was seven years old
in Atlanta, fishing in afishing pond.
That's his version of love.
Love can be children, it can behigher power, anything you want
.
But when we allow that in andpart of that breath.
(42:28):
I don't know if anyone else hasnoticed this.
When I take a deep breath itmight be the most millimicro
nano part of that second of thatbreath.
I am not thinking about a damnthing Now when I'm in the level
of the problem and my brain isracing a mile a minute and I'm
running around like chicken withmy head chopped off.
(42:49):
It might be so quick, I don'tnotice it, but at least in that
moment, as short or as quick asit is, I'm not thinking about
anything and I think that's verypowerful.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, this is too much, probably, of a
simplification, but I guess allfeelings fall into these two
umbrella of love and fear.
The thing about breath is that,well, the thing about worries
and anxieties come from a placeof fear that I'm not going to be
okay, I'm not okay, I'm notokay.
But when you take pause andbreathe, you're like, oh, I'm
(43:25):
safe.
There's a sense of safetybecause breath keeps me alive.
And when you're able to breathe, you are like, oh, I am safe
and I have everything that Ineed physically in this moment,
although my thoughts are sayingotherwise.
When you connect with breathing, your body realizes that, oh,
I'm alive and I'm safe.
The temperature is okay, maybeI need to eat, whatever.
(43:47):
Maybe you react as this wholesituation.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
It goes from negative expectation negative or
fear-based expectation to noexpectation, just observance.
Yeah, I did this one time for agroup of people 20, 25 people
and I said transform your moodand think of love.
And there was one client whosaid I don't know about you,
(44:12):
luke, but I haven't felt love ina very long time.
Oh, I felt that.
I felt that he felt that Ibelieve that he believed that
belief.
But the coolest thing happenedthe other 20, 23 people in that
group said brother man, it'sokay, we love you.
(44:33):
And he just broke down crying.
I get chills thinking about that.
He felt love.
His belief system that hehasn't felt love, can't feel
love, doesn't believe in it, allof a sudden gone.
That to me is spiritual, to me,that kind of connection.
(44:53):
You can't make that up.
So, whatever that love is,there's three deep breaths.
Stop, take three deep breaths,transform your mood, think of
love.
And then we, oh, we observe.
After we take these deepbreaths, we observe inward.
When I'm in contractedawareness, my muscles are tight,
(45:16):
my heart's beating, I'm tense,I'm like man.
Let me just relax.
Sometimes I take more thanthree deep breaths.
Let me relax my body, let meslow down and then, we begin to
be curious and observe thatinner landscape.
Man, why am I angry at Saulright now?
Why was my expectation he washere and it wasn't met?
(45:36):
Man, why is my?
And then we start looking atour perspective, our assumptions
, our expectations, ourunhealthy beliefs and all of a
sudden, my hand pointingoutwards goes and I begin to
notice the things about myselfand the unhealthy perspectives,
expectations, beliefs, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I mean, there probably is a very serious
intention behind that sequence.
Right, I cannot start with theobserving while I'm in it.
I need to pause first.
I need to take a deep breath.
Only then I can have anon-judgmental awareness point
of view of what's happening.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I might need that healthy, spiritual, inspired
something that is me, that wasblocked, to help me change those
things Absolutely.
And we begin to observe thosethings and all of a sudden we
might have that shift inconsciousness.
All of a sudden we might gofrom the level of the problem to
a level of solution.
(46:33):
And then P we proceed.
We proceed with kindness, loveand compassion.
Now, what I tell people is youmight not be getting kindness,
love and compassion back, butthere's no reason at Karma
episode Feel free to check thatout there's no reason why we
can't proceed with kindness,love and compassion even though
(46:53):
we believe we're not getting itin return.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, that reminds me of that famous prayer that I've
heard in the Tosta Fellowship Iguess it is a translation about
it's better to understand thanto be understood it is better to
love than to be loved.
It makes me think of that, thatwe are capable of all that, but
I'm more attracted to be lovedthan to be un.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, I want to be understood, I want to be loved.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
I don't want to be the one who loved in that moment
, but it gets returned down theline, Even if other people don't
return.
I return to myself when I comefrom a place of love.
I am love, so it's kind ofcrazy, how it's all internal,
which will probably lead us intothe open or expanded awareness.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Tell me.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Their perspective towards a more positive and
open-minded outlook.
We begin to be the change.
Like you said at the beginning,it's the unseen.
Sometimes I call it thenon-tangible.
It's not the.
I'm bumping my shin on thatpiece of furniture.
Let me just move that piece offurniture.
Sometimes my problems are that,but often my problems with
(48:03):
people work, relationship,finances are a more, shall I say
, spiritual way of looking atthings.
It's not always the tangiblethings that I can change in my
life or all of a sudden thingsopen up for me.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I like that Awareness is vast.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Embracing.
Expanded awareness leads toincreased clarity, intuition,
wisdom, decision-making, justthat ability to shift to whether
you call it your higher part ofself or this expanded awareness
, all of a sudden, because ourfeelings are different, our
belief systems not so rooted inthe problem but rooted in the
(48:45):
solution, we're more likely towalk on a solution path.
So what does that?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
sound.
How does that sound?
It sounds good.
Yeah, it sounds pretty good.
And that coincides with maybeI'm not sure if I haven't, I'm
not sure if I have mentioned itin the podcast, Maybe I've
mentioned it to clients andfriends and stuff like that
about what meditation does toour mind when we meditate,
especially when I have a problem.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
So like so you're saying the stop acronym happens
in meditation.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Maybe go ahead oh yeah.
So, like when I have a problemand when I meditate, it's not an
elimination of that problem,but I become aware of other
things.
That is outside of that problem.
So it's more about awareness.
Because we have very limitedinformation, we can choose to
just see these things, but thepausing, the stopping, the
(49:39):
observation, it makes us becomeaware of so many other things
that are happening already butI'm not paying attention to, you
know.
So when there is a problem,it's not about how do I solve
this, how do I know.
It's more about what else can Isee?
The truth of the situation hereand that's what I'm hearing
about the expanded awareness isthat what is actually going on
here.
What is it that I'm not seeing?
(50:00):
And then becoming aware of that.
Otherwise, I'm so channelvision that this is what's
happening and this is all I know.
The more I think about it, thebigger it grows.
You know about the problem, butthe trick or the solution,
which is more of spiritual innature, is that what is it that
I'm not seeing here?
What else can I see?
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's that mind-body connection, it's that mind-body
awareness.
But here's my oh wait, there'smore is all Third level?
There's a third level.
Yeah, tell me what's that?
Contracted, expanded.
And the third level, or thehighest level, awareness he
calls pure awareness.
So if we look at that word,pure purity not just that good
(50:43):
shit when it comes to drugs,purity is blemishless, it's no
faults.
This is a level where there areno problems exist.
Okay, let me change theperspective of verbiage for some
people.
Oh, of course there's problems.
I agree.
Every challenge is a creativeopportunity.
(51:03):
You feel completely alignedwith the forces of nature.
Your inner and outer worldsreflect each other without
confusion or conflict.
As solutions arise from thelevel of true self, they meet no
resistance.
All your desires lead to thebest result for you and your
surroundings.
As you move from level one tolevel three, life's challenges
(51:28):
become what they are meant to bea step closer to your true self
.
Now that I've had a description, what do you think of pure
awareness?
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, pure means originality, the origins of
things.
That's how I interpret it, Evento relate that with the breath
too.
This is actually from one of myfavorite American Buddhist
monks that I regularly listen to.
I think he just said itcasually, but it sticks with me.
About the fact that I'mrelating this to the purity is
(51:57):
that the reason why we payattention to the breath is that
everything else came later.
Breath came first.
My resentment, my belief system, my feelings, the way I view
the world, the only came later.
That is how it all began.
So that's how I relate withthat bliss or purity of
awareness is that this is whereeverything all came from.
(52:20):
It's available, it's pureawareness and it's just
non-judgmental.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
It's all good kind of feeling it's the way it's
supposed to be, it's acceptance.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
But I think it would be helpful to conclude it all to
maybe we've already mentionedit that we do have access to
that.
I don't know if we've deliveredthat message through this
episode that it is possiblethrough holistic approach,
meditation, therapy, whatever itis.
We do have access to that pureawareness.
But now we're like an instantgratification.
(52:55):
It's not like a button switch,but it takes practice and it
takes patience.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I'll say need I need other people's perspectives to
help me with this?
Am I always able to do this bymyself?
No, that's where I thinktherapy, meditation, support
groups are very helpful to getto this higher part of self.
That's how you want to look atit.
I joke and I say, okay, pureawareness, that might be Gandhi,
(53:25):
that might be Mother Teresa,that might be Buddha.
I'll settle for expandedawareness.
Thank you very much.
Well, yeah, I think it's a goodperspective on a way to find a
solution.
These can be parallel withspiritual principles, buddhist
(53:47):
principles, recovery principles.
They certainly align with a lotof things that we certainly
talk about on this podcast.
As I plugged a few otherepisodes throughout this episode
.
Yeah, let's do a conclusion,shall we?
As we end this transformativejourney, we hope that you the
most essential part of ourpodcast, you guys and gals that
(54:08):
are listening have gainedvaluable insights into this
essence of awareness and itsprofound impact on our lives.
Throughout this podcast, weexplored the levels of awareness
, from contracted to expandedand, ultimately, pure awareness,
and how they influence ourapproach to life's challenges.
The truth is, every problem weencounter is an invitation to
(54:29):
delve deeper into our spiritualselves.
By expanding our awareness, weopen ourselves up to a world of
possibilities, moving beyond thelimitations of fear, confusion
and struggle.
As we shift from contracted toexpanded awareness, we begin to
see solutions emerge, obstaclesbecome easier to overcome and
our vision extends beyond theconflicts that once held us back
(54:52):
.
Embracing expanded awareness isnot a mere abstract concept,
but a powerful tool for personaltransformation and growth.
Through mindfulness,self-reflection and a genuine
connection with our true selves,we can harness the energy of
pure awareness, where problemsdissolve into creative
opportunities and feel alignedwith life's natural flow.
Zal has shared insights fromthe Buddhist perspective,
(55:15):
highlighting the importance ofinner harmony and living in
alignment with the forces ofnature.
His wisdom reminds us thatembracing pure awareness makes
us free from resistance,effortlessly navigating life's
challenges with, hopefully,grace and wisdom.
As a therapist, I've witnessedthe incredible power of expanded
awareness in my client's lives.
Shifting from contracted toexpanded awareness can indeed be
(55:38):
a life-changing experience.
It empowers us to break freefrom limiting beliefs, overcome
fears and connect with ourdeepest desires.
So we encourage you to embracethe journey of awareness and
spirituality in your own lifeThrough mindfulness, meditate
and engage in self-reflection.
Cultivate a compassionate andloving relationship with
(55:58):
yourself and others.
By doing so, you'll unlock theimmense potential within you
leading to a moving, fulfillingand purposeful life.
But remember, every problem isindeed open to spiritual
solution and the journey towardsthe solution begins by
expanding your awareness,sometimes by stopping Together.
(56:18):
Let's embark on the path ofgrowth, love and transformation.
Thank you for joining us onthis remarkable journey.
We're grateful for yourpresence and look forward to
exploring more profound topicsin the world of awareness and
spirituality, and all things,health and wellness.
So until then, embrace theessence of awareness and may
your life be filled with peace,joy and boundless possibilities.
(56:42):
My name is Luke.
Thank you all for listening.
This is Zau.
See you next time.
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