Championing Change: Inside Angel Traynor's Recovery Advocacy

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SEAEON 2 PREMIER
New Episodes are released every other Monday!
Have you ever witnessed true transformation? Our latest episode features Angel Traynor, whose journey through the depths of addiction to becoming a beacon of hope in recovery advocacy is nothing short of miraculous. She opens up about her own battles and the critical work she does with Serenity Sistas Sober house and the Annapolis Substance Abuse Prevention Initiative. Prepare to be moved by her story and the invaluable lessons on how community support can ignite change in lives entangled with addiction.

Step into the heart of a community organizer leading the approach to getting things done for people in recovery. Angel's reflections remind us that triumph over addiction is not just a personal victory but a collective one. This episode explores how the initiatives she is a part of are rewriting the narrative of addiction, fostering understanding and camaraderie.

Join us in a profound conversation that goes beyond the statistics, bringing to light the human side of recovery. Angel shares her insights on mentorship, self-care, and the simple joys of a life free from substances. We confront the ongoing challenges of advocacy, from policy change to state-level understanding, as Angel casts her vision for a future rich in support and peace for those on the path to recovery. Tune in to discover the essence of becoming a 'recovery carrier' and the importance of building lasting connections to create a more compassionate society.

https://www.serenitysistas.org/
Home | Recovery Anne Arundel
Anne Arundel County Substance Abuse Prevention Coalitions (preventsubstancemisuse.org)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to A Therapist in Buddhist In you,
brought to you by the RecoveryCollective in Annapolis,
maryland.
In the world of addictionrecovery, few figures shine as
brightly as Angel.
Trainer, a beacon of hope, acatalyst of change and a
tireless advocate for thosenavigating the challenging path
to recovery.
Turn director of Serenity'ssister's soberhouse, coordinator
of recovery in a rundle and anintegral person of the new

(00:32):
recovery community center, notto mention a driving force
behind the Annapolis SubstanceAbuse Prevention Initiative and
I'm sure I'm missing much more.
However, angel wears many hats,each representing a commitment
to healing and community support.
This episode isn't just aboutAngel's impressive resume.
It's an invitation to witnessthe transformative power of

(00:53):
community advocacy and the vitalrole of recovery rep round
services.
Join us as we delve intoAngel's personal journey and the
pivotal impact of her work atthe community, private and even
government level.
Through Angel's experiences andwisdom, you'll discover the
profound difference thatcommunity advocacy can make in
the lives of those touched byaddiction.

(01:14):
Get ready for an inspiringconversation that illuminates
the way forward, fostering hopeand resilience in the heart of
recovery.
We do want to thank you guys forjoining us in season two.
We enjoyed the break aftergoing 52 plus weeks straight and
we're certainly excited to giveyou all kinds of episodes,
special guests and differentforms of content in 2024.

(01:34):
There are the usual podcastepisodes and articles that Zell
and I write, and we will beincluding some other awesome,
informative content that we'lltalk more about in the future.
So please like, comment andsubscribe Collectively.
We can do what we can't just doby ourselves.
Let's get into it with our veryspecial guest, angel.

(01:55):
Thanks for joining us for thefirst episode of season two.
Welcome, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know, when you were saying all that stuff about
me, I almost turned around tosee who you were talking about,
because it still doesn't feelreal.
I was 17 years into my recoveryprocess and it just blows me
away that I've come from where Iwas to where I am.
So thank you so much for havingme.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Thanks for being here .
So how?
17 years?
But how did you get involved inthis recovery advocacy?
When and how did it spark thisflame in you?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know, early in recovery I, like so many others,
I had no idea what to do withmyself, where I was going to go,
what I was going to do.
I was 46 years old and clueless.
And, you know, I surroundedmyself by a group of people and
they're like oh, you should getyour GED.

(02:53):
And my brain tells me I'm notsmart enough or funny enough or
I'm too old.
And they were like shh, shh, goget the GED.
And I did, when I got that,that same thing about college.
They're like you should go tocollege.
And I just never imaginedmyself being able to do anything

(03:14):
like that.
I mean, I started using when Iwas 12.
By the time I was 16, I had achild.
I mean, I just went through thegamut, right, with the things
that women do abuse ofrelationships, raising a baby
alone, never feeling good enough.

(03:34):
But I went to college reallybecause I didn't know what else
to do with myself, right?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, you knew what maybe not to do.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, yeah, by then right by then I knew what not to
do and I knew by then that Ididn't want to do those things
anymore.
And I went to the communitycollege up here Ann Amrundel and
gosh, I started classes to bean addictions counselor, because

(04:06):
I think that that's where somany people in early recovery
want to be.
Sure, there's that spark, Sure,and I'm like I'm going to be an
addictions counselor, this iswhat I want to do.
And I got hooked up with a work, study job and I worked for a
woman who interviewed me overthe phone.
I ended up in the office ofsubstance abuse prevention and

(04:33):
I'm like, oh my God, she cannever really know who I am
because, listen, I was an addict, an active addict, for 33 years
.
It doesn't say a lot aboutprevention, right?
Anyway, she hired me and I meansome days I was like, what am I
doing here?

(04:53):
Because I'm like making postersand cutting out construction
paper.
But other days she would takeme to places where I'm like, oh,
okay, okay, this is cool,Things.
Like she would take me intopolice stations and we would do
meetings there and that's.
I mean, listen, I come in.
I have a very colorful past,meaning there was a lot of law

(05:16):
enforcement involved, right, andI started doing those things
with her and I don't know.
In the three years that Iworked for her, I was exposed to
a lot of different things whilegoing to classes, still, and
one of my professors I don'teven remember what the

(05:36):
assignment was, but theprofessor was like oh, you're
going to work with women.
When you get out of here andI'm like you're nuts, I'm never
going to work with women.
No, and you know, she followedme through and she turned into a
mentor for me, that professor,and exposed me to some really
cool things when it comes toprevention and trauma crisis,

(06:02):
like all of those things.
So I was interested, but Ididn't, I didn't.
I still didn't believe that Iwas good enough or that I would
ever be able to do anything likethat.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
So that was like 2008-ish right 2008, 2009.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
2007, yeah, yeah, around 2009, I guess right.
That boss at the college sentme to a meeting one day.
She was like I can't go, needyou to stand in for me?
And by then I knew well enoughto say, okay, boss, whatever you
say.
And I went.
It was the health department upin Glenburne and I walk into

(06:40):
this room and there's like nineor 10 people sitting around the
table.
When I saw them it was a formerCO, a former PO, a former
addictions counselor, my veryfirst pretrial worker.
There's all of these people atthe table and I was petrified.

(07:00):
But I knew that if I didn't goin, you know she would be upset.
So I went in, kept my head low.
Maybe what kept me there was Ihave a very good friend, a
musician, here in Annapolis andhe was at the table and I was
like, all right, maybe I can dothis.
So that was at the time.

(07:20):
It was called recovery orientedsystem of care.
The health department took careof it and it's grown into much
more.
But what happened to me therewas I started to find my voice.
My personal belief is that whenwe are in active addiction or
early in recovery, we don't knowwhat our voice is.

(07:43):
We haven't experienced beingable to use it and I found that
During that time I picked upthat degree for addictions
counseling.
I picked up another humanservices, but I also picked up a
degree it was human serviceswith the social law, and that's
when I started learning aboutadvocacy and about how the world

(08:05):
really worked.
Sure.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
The red tape.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Policy, legislature, like all of that, and I was
hooked.
That happened during that time,like between 2009, 2012.
The recovery that Rosk iscalled recovery and a Rundle.
Now I became very involved withthat, which is deep in the
community, helping to reducestigma, highlight recovery.

(08:34):
I became very involved withthem the coordinator but we'll
get to that.
Well, I mean, I hold that atlike the highest honor in the
world, right.
But I was also introduced torecovery coaching at the time
and I started seeing thedifference between addictions

(08:55):
counseling and recovery coaching, right, and we're both guides.
But I'm like a thigh high inthe muck, let's get to it, kind
of girl and I went with therecovery coaching and I was
hooked.
I still have those degrees.
I've never, ever used them.
They hang very nicely on mymother's piece of paper yeah, my

(09:17):
mother's.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I'm familiar with pieces of paper I'm familiar
with a piece of paper.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Extra bedroom is a good time.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
So it's just interesting how you don't
realize that this is moldingyour eventual career
professionally, among otherthings.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah God, I've had some of the most amazing
experiences since then.
I'm from Annapolis, I'm ananti-polletin through and
through and I can tell you thatpre-recovery, a lot of the
officers on the force knew myname.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
They knew me by face and Annapolis is a small town
pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's pretty small.
It is pretty small right.
Once I entered into recoveryand I started doing community
work, I have been able to likerelink with some of those
officers and I get to see theother side right.
I was never one of those peoplethat when I was arrested I was

(10:16):
never a kicker or scratcher orspitter.
I never did any of that.
But I get to see the other sideright and understand that
there's a really important placefor that meeting in the middle
between law enforcement andthose of us in recovery.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
I just think it's so fascinating that so early
probably didn't look at it asyour career yet, but in your job
you saw police officers and ameeting.
Is it Providence?
Is it odd?
Is it God?
But whatever it was, it led toa spark.
So talk more about that.
What are some of the advocacythat?
Is it training?
Is it them understanding?

(10:52):
Where have you took that inyour advocacy?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
So First, I think that both sides need to see the
other side as human right,because we're all human.
One of the first officers thatI came into contact with I was
in a meeting with that boss.
There was a horrific and verytragic accident that happened on

(11:18):
Route 50 during that time andit was a carload of kids and it
was just.
It was terrible.
And I go into that meeting.
They start talking about thatbecause with substance abuse
prevention and working withyouth, which is one of the
things that I do today we talkabout binge drinking, underage
drinking, right, car relatedcrashes.

(11:39):
This big burly cop comes in,he's in a suit and he starts
talking about that accident andwe everybody in the room knew
about it because it reallyimpacted this area and he
started talking about the factthat he was chasing behind the

(12:03):
car of kids.
It was, they were going thewrong way on 50 and they
couldn't follow them too closelyand he couldn't stop what he
watched happen in front of him.
He could not stop it and hestarted crying and I was deeply
impacted by that because what Irealized is that he's just human

(12:24):
.
Today he's one of my closestfriends in law enforcement and
through everything that I'vebeen in my past life watching
them, thinking poorly of them,all of the things that come
along with the way we thinkabout law enforcement sometimes

(12:46):
but being able to work with themon the other side in the
community and understanding thatthey're just humans too right,
I think that that has a lot toit.
But they also get to see me ashuman right and I say this all
the time.
I mean with the officers that Iwork with, with the director of

(13:10):
crisis, with anybody at crisisthat I come into contact with.
Like I like giving them wins,right, because we don't get a
lot of wins when we're workingin this area and the wins is
what keeps us going.
So it's always an honor for meto work side by side with law

(13:31):
enforcement.
I was just actually put intothe position of being the
co-chair for the AnnapolisPolice Foundation and I'm like,
all right.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Full circle are we?

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Okay, full circle.
We like that.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Speaking of full circle.
I wanted to say that when I was, I think I was only a few
months in my recovery journeyand you were the speaker at that
popular or highly attendedmeeting.
This was like nine years agoand I remember you from there
because you had a color, somekind of color in your hair back
then and I really appreciatewhat you're saying about your

(14:14):
journey, which is an importantpiece for people who are
struggling with addiction, whichis about recovery is not about
just not doing, but doingsomething else that's meaningful
and purposeful.
Sounds like that's what youfound as well.
That kept you going.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
It is.
You're absolutely right, and Isay this all the time we have to
have something to do.
When we enter into recovery Inactive addiction, I was always
somebody's mom, somebody'scaseload, somebody's girlfriend.

(14:53):
I just didn't know what mypurpose was.
And what I have found over andover and over in almost 17 years
of working with individuals iswe have got to help them find
their purpose.
We have to help them find theirvoice, because once you find
your voice, if you use itproperly, it can make change,

(15:16):
and I know this.
I know this to be true becauseI've seen it happen.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
So you brought that up the Annapolis Police
Foundation, their mission tosupport the Annapolis Police
Department directly withresources and strengthen it and
augmented services to thecommunity.
So that's kind of where youroll in right.
Tell us about the AnnapolisPolice Foundation and some of
the work that you're doing withthem.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, for the first time in my life I had on a ball
gown Right, I'm not much of aball gown girl, you know.
If you look at me and now I'min sweat pants and sweatshirt
with no shoes, because I deeplydespise shoes.
But we did black tie anddiamonds with the Rotary Club

(16:03):
right To raise money to help thepolice department.
We want to buy a van right fortransporting kids to and from
some of the programs.
I mean, some of the programsare chess, volleyball, they do
after school studies, there's aboxing club, so really we're
there to support them in theinitiatives that they are doing

(16:24):
in the community.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
That's great.
You've been involved with thecounty for so long, from 10, 15
years ago to now.
What kind of education orinformation or perspective have
you helped give the policedepartment understanding
addiction and things related torecovery or active use?

Speaker 2 (16:49):
I have to say that it really started.
I used to sit on a panel, theNot my Child panel.
It started in 2015 when peoplestarted realizing that the
overdoses were going up and thatfatalities were going up and,
quite honestly, it startedhitting.

(17:10):
The opioid epidemic startedhitting families that you would
not.
People just wouldn't think it'sgoing to happen there.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Hence the name, the title oh well, that can happen,
but not my Child.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, not my Child.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
That wouldn't happen to my Child.
So the stigma, the denial,Absolutely that denial, that
denial's.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
That's something else .
Right, because I know for myown mother, who was a single mom
.
She raised me for a long timeand then she married a man that
became my stepfather for a lotof years.
But my mom, my own mother, whenshe had to look, really look at
my addiction when I was 44, 45,46 years old, she had to take a

(17:58):
look at herself.
Right, what did she do wrong?
Where did she go wrong?
Things like that and that, fora parent, is tough.
What I've had to teach my mom,help to educate her, is that
there's nothing wrong with her.
There was nothing wrong with me.
There was nothing wrong with me.

(18:19):
It's what happened to me, whathappened to me to make me go
down that route.
Right, what was the trauma?
So it's tough, right, withparents Like I understand that I
really do, but that not myChild panel.
We became like a family.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
And this is a panel that would be held at high
schools and ultimately middleschools, with, quote unquote
professionals, police officers,people in recovery that would
talk to clinicians.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Students and their parents.
We became like a family.
I mean, I don't know how manyof those sessions I did with
officers, with state's attorneys, with crisis, with all of those
people, and just taking thatinformation into the community
and educating.
It's all about education, right?

(19:10):
You cannot fault somebody fornot knowing something Correct
Once you educate them.
Now I can be like remember,remember that.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
That's right.
No, that's a choice.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
No, it's a choice, exactly so working with law
enforcement, it's just one of mygreatest pleasures.
It really is.
That is where.
So recovery and a Rundle.
And it started as that Roscoewas under the auspice of the
health department and thegentleman that headed it up was

(19:47):
smart enough to know that itbelonged in the hands of the
community, not the hands of thegovernment.
His name was George Phillips Jr, and George was all about like
getting the information out,reducing stigma.
We started the annual recoverywalk, so we're going into the

(20:12):
12th year for that and we'regoing along.
And it just hit me one day.
I'm like how do we expect toeducate people and let them know
that we do recover?
Right?
We're out there, we do recover.
Oddly enough, we recover and wevote right.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
And we thrive.
We're active.
We're active in addiction.
We do use that energy for goodwhen we're in the recovery
process.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
People in recovery are some of the most brilliant
people I've ever met in my life.
But I'm like how do we expectto just do one event and have
people remember us?
That doesn't work for me.
Again, listen, I recover outloud.
I found my voice.

(21:03):
I use it and I use it tomobilize people as well.
So I was like what about abasketball game between the
county police department and agroup of guys in recovery?
Like how cool is that?
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
So now they're competitive.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well, and it's weird, right, Because that first year
I'm like, hmm, how is thisreally going to work?
Like, are they going to getalong?
Like what's going to happen outthere?
I have never seen not much of asports girl, but I don't think
I've ever seen so muchtogetherness on a basketball
court.
Because they came together, man, because they're humans.

(21:48):
At the end of the day, they'rehumans, right?
We're going into our sixth yearof that event and both the
county police department and theguys in recovery love that
event.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
It's passionate, it's unity.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Thank God.
Well, and listen, I don't knowif you know this or not, but
people that are in recovery arelike highly competitive, highly
competitive.
And so we took the trophy lastyear, and this year the game is
in April, I think it's oddlyenough.
I think it's April the 20th, Idon't know what being that,

(22:25):
because I could be wrong.
But yeah, the police departmentis coming to get that trophy
back.
They want it back, that's right, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
So gosh, we just, we're, organically, we've hit.
We're going to do deeper, withMr George Phillips here in a
second.
But you've talked about theOffice of Substance Abuse
Education and the recovery walk,and that's an annual event
that's in downtown Annapolis toraise awareness.
You've talked about Rosk.

(22:56):
You haven't touched SerenitySys' yet.
Talk to us about that.
That started 2012-ish 2012,2013.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
I knew that there was a gap in housing for women.
I knew that there was nohousing in Annapolis for women.
The closest thing we had was achrysalis house, and sometimes
women didn't fit the criteriabecause they didn't have a child
or whatever the reason.
So I made the decision that Iwas going to open a recovery

(23:37):
house in Annapolis for women,and it's only through the grace
of everything that I am notRight.
It's only through the grace ofGod that it all came together.
I was literally a starvingcollege student, right.
I think the first batch ofmoney that I got I took out a

(24:00):
Pell Grant.
I'm probably still paying itoff, but it's fine.
It's fine right.
It's through the kindness of afamily whose son was in recovery
.
They rented me a townhouse.
They knew what we were doing.
They were behind us Layawayangels these are people that

(24:26):
like, go into Kmart or whereverthey do layaway.
I had put beds on layaway andlayaway angels went in and paid
it off.
Furniture was donated fromfamily and friends and it just
all came together.
For the first month I had onegirl there and she's like is

(24:50):
anybody ever gonna come and livewith us?
And I'm like they'll come.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
We're building it, they're gonna come, and I did
and how needed it is in everycommunity, especially for women
a safe cultural recovery, safeplace with a mindset I can live
here, I can put my head to bed,I don't have to worry about

(25:15):
anything but myself and mysafety and my recovery.
And the culture is good forthat to be lacking in so many
areas, especially.
Well, now it's and the Napoliis so rich in the recovery
community.
But the houses that you builtand created I'll say it this way
, you set up the conditions is ahuge reason why the recovery's

(25:39):
so rich here.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I believe in recovery .
I believe that everybody isworthy of recovery.
I believe that everyonedeserves a safe place to lay
their head and a safe place tolive right and to thrive right.
It's not just about survivingin recovery, it's about thriving

(26:02):
, that's right.
And house one came along.
14 months later, house two camealong, house three and it's
funny because that professorthat I told you about the one
that was like you're gonna workwith women and I'm like, no, not
.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
She's doing something in scenario.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
That first grand opening of that house, she
showed up and she laughed andshe laughed and she laughed and
she said I told ya, but I, justonce it all started, I knew that
I was in the right place and Iknew that I was doing the right
thing.
And that was probably the firsttime in a very long time that I

(26:47):
knew deep down inside that Iwas where I belonged.
And then all of a suddensomebody's like you should open
a men's house, and I'm like Idon't wanna work with men.
And then they're like youshould open a women and
children's house, and I'm likechildren are sticky.
But I did open a women andchildren's house and we opened

(27:09):
up a men's house and pre COVIDwe were up to seven locations
and COVID changed everything forall of us right?
I don't know one person thatwas not impacted by COVID.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Trying to figure it out in live real time was
looking back is going wow, wegot through that.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, and I think about that.
I mean, how many businesseswere shut down, how many people
couldn't go to work, how manypersons early in recovery were
back to isolation, which is theworst thing in the world you can
do for an addict.
Oh God, new and recovery.

(27:55):
That's a terrible time.
I say it all the time.
I've got some girls that gotclean on the screen right
Because of Zoom, but we wereimpacted and we were knocked
back right.
We were knocked down to fourlocations because somewhere in

(28:16):
there in all of that, somebodywas like oh, you should open up
a crisis stabilization location.
And I'm like I know I'm notclinical, I can't do that, but I
did.
We opened up a stabilizationlocation for safe stations and
everything.
Just, some people say to meyou're so lucky.

(28:39):
I'm like, hmm, it's divineintervention.
I mean, I believe that my pathwas laid long before.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Providence.
God has a path.
We can step off it, but God hasa path.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Oh yeah, I stepped off of it, rolled down a few
hills, I mean, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
It might be divine intervention, but it can also be
a labor of love.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, and then people are like you're so lucky and
I'm like, bro, you have no ideahow many phone calls I take at
two o'clock, three o'clock inthe morning, how many parents I
talk to that are just at the endof their rope.
And you know, I mean when Ileave you here today I am going
back home to do some billing,like it's not all glory, right,

(29:22):
and it's not all fame, and Imean it's all labor of love for
me, because I know this is whereI'm supposed to be.
So we've grown.
We've been kicked down a littlebit by COVID.
We're back to growing again.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Once again, we're organically just going to oh,
here's something else that Angelhas helped in the recovery
community and a crisisstabilization bed.
That's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, it's intense.
That's it, Crisis.
It's a gentle place.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Crisis stabilization is like hey, before someone
finds their place, where's asafe place for them to be until
an opening is going up forwhether it's a residential, a
detox, an inpatient, you name it.
I mean, that's a very what worddo I want to use?
Tough time for people.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, it's not a good time.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
It's the nightmare that the client and the family
are living in.
That's my language, right, butthat's the nightmare time for
family and they're in the attic.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
And definitely hearing an overarching theme in
your story, the way it hasunfolded, which is what you were
saying in the beginning aboutthe humanness that everybody's
human.
So like starting with your ownstory and then law enforcement
people are human, addicts arehuman, but also women are human,
and then men are human, andthen so like there's that theme
which really is the essence ofrecovery.

(30:46):
From my experience too, is that, as an addict or just as a
human being, sometimes whenwe're very selfish, I feel
invisible, or either I'minvincible, like there's a
disconnection from my humanness.
So like everything that you'vedescribed about thriving in
recovery is all about like thehuman connection and it's more
like a sustainable way ofstaying sober.

(31:07):
Otherwise, just like a tickingbomb.
I'm still not in tune with myhumanness, I still think
everybody else is selfish and Istill feel selfish.
There's that like wall inbetween.
So like it really and capturesthe whole essence of recovery
the way your story is unfoldingand it won't stop right.
Like you said, there is thatpower behind everything that is
making everything happen.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, I mean and it's the wins too, though it's the
wins I recently readmitted ayoung lady into one of our
female sober houses and I don'tget as much interaction with our
residents as I once did becauseI get to do the billing end and

(31:51):
all of that stuff, but I've gota great staff and one of my
staff called me and she was like, hey, you need to reach out to
her, she would like to tell yousomething.
So I called her and she said tome first of all, thank you for
allowing me to come back.
And she said to me I will never, ever forget you because you

(32:13):
took an Easter when I was.
The name of that crisis housewas the Hoyle house.
She said you took your Easterand I was at the Hoyle house.
I was the only person therebesides staff and you came and
you had dinner with me and yougave up time with your family
and I will never forget that.

(32:33):
That's the human.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
That's the grace, that's the connection.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, so it's things like that and it's I wanna be a
recovery carrier.
That's what I wanna do.
I wanna carry recovery.
So I try to teach it, like eachone of those people that I come
into contact with, that this iswhat it's all about.
This is where you find yourvoice.
This is how you can use yourvoice.
Recently, I was approached bythe county hey, you've been

(33:03):
really successful at running awomen and children's house,
right, Because we've done thatsince 2015.
They're like what about a men'shouse, a men and children's
house?
Now, I've known for years thatthat is an under non-served

(33:24):
population, right, and there area lot of dads out there, due to
the opioid crisis, now havetheir children because they have
to and I don't say that in acallous way, I'm saying mom's
not present and dad has thechildren and dad has to take
care of them.
And they're like how do youfeel about that?

(33:47):
And I said, well, I've beensaying it for years Like, let me
take a crack at it.
So Serendipistas will open upthe first men and children's
house in the state of Maryland.
So we're, you know it's.
All that stuff excites me.
I'm like all right, let's do it.
And we're also reopening HoyleHouse, but only for women.

(34:09):
I can't do Women and men no,thank you.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
After all these years , you've gained relationships
and collaboration with the cityof Annapolis and Ronell County
and others.
How, how did you get thesecollaborations, connections with
the county and city level?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
People say to me all the time oh my gosh, you're like
, you're so involved and I'mlike, no, I'm just real nosy.
I'm just really nosy, right,and I want to know.
But really the reason I want toknow those people is because I
want to help educate them.
And I learned that in 2015,when I was going through that

(34:54):
whole you know, the Not my Childpanel realizing how many of our
decision makers don't theydon't understand or they don't
know, or they have their ownfamily secrets that they don't
particularly want to talk about.
No doubt, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
And we're all affected.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
We, every single one of us.
I have not met one person yetthat has not been impacted by
substance misuse.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
And and throwing mental health on top of it, and
then it's compounded.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, I mean, we're all affected People either don't
want to talk about it, they'reafraid to talk about it, they're
afraid of judgment.
The stigma is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
And our own personal stigma as well.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Well, you're right, we stigmatize ourselves and we,
you know, even in the recoverycommunity you'll find it
sometimes.
But what really got me was Iwas working under an
administration and I, somebodybrought this house to me and
they're like, hey, you shouldtake a look at it.

(36:03):
It's in Pasadena, they call itthe compound, it's for sale.
You should go and look at it.
And I did and it was definitelya compound, but it was in a
community in Pasadena.
I'm like, all right, let's giveit a whirl.
I mean, I'm gonna give it awhirl for this.
Okay, somebody was angry withme and started going into the

(36:25):
community and saying that I wasgoing to open a rehab there.
I do not run rehabs, I am notclinical, I'm peer based.
And the community invited me infor a brief conversation Just
six to eight community membersand I'm like all right.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Sure, I'm an open book, it's easy, it's connection
, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
I'm an open book.
I'm like all right, I took oneof my employees and my mom, who
at the time was probably 70, 71.
And she's I mean my mother'sone of my biggest advocates
today, and she went and I walkedinto the room and there were,
oh, it was not six to eightpeople, there were 40 to 60

(37:10):
people there at least, and theywere angry, right, and I sat
there for 45 minutes literallytaking shots from the community
and some of the words that theythrew out that were just not
kind and oh, you're going tohave mother and children, our
children can't play with theirchildren.

(37:30):
And I'm like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Hard to have grace for that type of and.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I'm just trying to be nice and answer the questions
right, Because I don't want tobe perceived as that person,
because I quickly remember atthe deep down core of me I'm
still angel and I still havethat.
That can come out.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
What I had in the street.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
I still have that right and I know that about
myself and I don't want to beperceived.
I don't want to be that woman.
I was trying to answer theirquestions.
I was being very kind.
My poor mom I'm not going toanswer these better find because
she's watching her daughter andthis other girl takes shots
right, and it finally took theemployee to say to me how long

(38:20):
are you going to fucking sithere?

Speaker 3 (38:22):
and listen to this.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
And I'm like I snapped out of it.
What happened with that isthere was a delegate that was
there in the audience who, youknow, politicians have to remain
neutral.
They can't go on one side orthe other right.
So he was very neutral.
He lived in the neighborhood.
But there was also a womanthere from the county

(38:46):
executive's office who called methe next day In fact I think
Nick called me as well and theyboth said I am deeply, deeply
sorry for what happened to youlast night, what happened to
your employee, what happened toyour mom.
I'm very sorry.
Can we talk?
That's where I found my lovefor politics, and how do we

(39:10):
educate them in a way that we'renot called those people.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
It's the other side of advocacy.
That's the gap, the stigma, theresistance, the fear that comes
out in anger.
That's the other side ofadvocacy that I'm glad you
shared that with us because withall the I'll call it wins, but
positive forward momentum, thereare a lot of those stories in

(39:36):
your 10, 12, 15, 17 years.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Oddly enough, I end up in places where I'm like how
did I get here?
You know, I mean, how did I gethere?
And I get to go in, and I getto talk to our delegates today
and my senator and my countyexecutive, and it's so weird for
me because they'll be likeyou're the expert on this, and

(40:01):
I'm like again, I'm going tolook behind me and say, are you
talking to me?
Like I'm just a girl man, justa girl trying to stay sober
today.
You know, but it all comes fromfinding my voice and using my
voice in the right way.
That's really.
That's what it comes down to.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
So let's take that to a win, and I know you you hold
Mr George Phillips Jr in highregard.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit more about the upcoming
recovery community center in theworks?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Through COVID we found out that.
Well, we already know, right.
We already know that isolationis a terrible place to be for us
.
But there are those of us maybewho have been in the recovery
process longer to understand howslippery and how dangerous
isolation can be.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
I remember peak COVID lockdown.
I'm painting the wall of myhouse and going oh, I got to
show up on this zoom for thisperson celebrating because I
couldn't imagine having ananniversary on zoom.
You're a half leader still onzoom.
You know that isolation andtrying to find ways to connect.

(41:17):
So sorry to interrupt but keepgoing.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
No, that's okay though, because it's so true,
right.
What I saw in our houses wasyou know, now we've got jobs
have shut down, 12 step meetingshave shut down, we're told to
isolate, to stay in our homes,don't touch, don't touch anyone.
Listen, I am a hugger, right,and all of that like we're told

(41:44):
don't, don't, don't, don't.
So what I started to see was myown residents suffering, and I
knew that something had to bedone.
Wasn't sure how to get there.
Again, through a series ofevents, anne Arundel County at

(42:08):
one point was chosen, was one of15 communities chosen in the
United States to work withfacing addiction.
It was all technical assistance, but assistance right, how to
community organize?
I was still learning.
Then in Anne Arundel County wassupposed to come up with one
goal that we wanted toaccomplish.

(42:29):
We're super passionate here inAnne.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Arundel right, so we came up with two.
And one one was.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
You may have seen the accordion resource guide.
So we have an accordionresource guide and we came up
with that.
If you ever want something doneand you want it done
efficiently and quickly, findyourself some moms, because the
moms are the best man and thisgroup of moms.

(43:03):
They come up with this thingand it's.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
To date, we have distributed over 25,000 of those
little pamphlets right whenpeople struggle with resources,
referrals, continuum of careservices where do we look?
So that's so valuable.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
It's wallet-sized I'm sure I don't have one because I
give them out everywhere.
And then the second was arecovery community center, a
place that people could go toget wraparound services.
And when I say wraparoundservices, I mean we come in with
things like we don't have adriver's license, we need a

(43:42):
social security card, we don'tknow how to write a job resume,
life skill is like all of thosethings.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Right, it's not the drinking and drug in that
necessarily will get us torelapse.
It's the life.
Stuff is why so many peoplerelapse.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Absolutely, and how to handle that.
And talking about relapseprevention.
So we're like, okay, now wehave our goals, how do we get
there?
What do we do?
And we, a group of us I don't Ido nothing by myself.
I always have a group of peoplethat I collaborate with and a

(44:18):
grant came up through the stateof Maryland and it was a very
unique grant.
It was a brick and mortaracquisition which you very
rarely find those and a group ofus wrote this grant and we were
awarded the grant and thenCOVID hit.
So we have this money but wecan't really do anything with it

(44:40):
because, well, we're not doinganything.
And, like I said, that's when Ireally started to see our
residents suffering.
They were suffering.
Sometimes they didn't even knowthey were suffering, right,
they had no idea.
They just know that they've gotthis inner whatever it is
that's going on making me feelterrible about myself.

(45:01):
And we as a team atSerendipist's kicked it into
action, emptied out the lowerlevel of one of our houses of
beds, we put the beds in otherplaces and we opened up a pilot
project and we can only use itfor our residents, right, but

(45:22):
our residents could go there andget those things and it was
super successful.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
What wonderful clientele for a pilot program.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, it's just everything just worked out
really well.
We found the first location.
During all of this, I loved thebuildings.
It was two buildings connected.
They're on West Street.
My team is like those are firetraps.
I love this building andthey're like mm at COVID really

(45:53):
hit.
We lost some financial backingfrom private investors.
Anyway, then you know the storygoes on.
We found another place.
If you know Annapolis, you knowit's always parking right.
Parking's always tragic.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
It's good for horses, but not for.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, this city was like nope, you don't have enough
parking there.
And then we found the thirdbuilding.
We're right where we'resupposed to be right.
We got a great building.
It's in a great location.
We have backing from our olderwoman, we have backing from the
mayor, the county exec policechief, we have the backing from

(46:30):
the office of emergencymanagement.
We had to do some work.
Everything was slow because,again, we're talking about COVID
, so people are working remotely, which means the guy that
pushes the little inspectionthings you put in the window
he's not there, so it took time.
During all of that time we'remaking friends, right, that's

(46:53):
when I decide I need to makefriends with that senator and
some other people.
We struggled with the name.
What are we going to call it?
Community center, what are wegoing to call it?
I have a woman that I workreally closely with.
Jennifer Wheeler is just my.
She's my recovery wife, is whatI call her.

(47:15):
She has a whole other life overthere.
She's not really my wife, butwe work real close and we were
holding a recovery and a Rundlemeeting one day and another
woman that we knew walked in andI'm like what is she doing here
?
Like why is she here?

(47:35):
And she walked up to me duringthe meeting and she was like hey
, I want to remind you thattoday is the one year
anniversary of George PhillipsJr passing.
And it all came flooding back tome, george Phillips Jr, the

(47:56):
very first time that I wasincarcerated, that I was
arrested I'm going to datemyself.
And because you could stillsmoke at the detention center,
then you were in pods with barsand I woke up at like two in the
morning to somebody yelling myname trainer, need you down here
?
And I walked down there.
I'm like what time is it?

(48:17):
He's like it's 2am, ma'am.
And I'm like okay, how can Ihelp?
And there's this youngAfrican-American gentleman.
He's got a five gallon bucketturned upside down.
He's sitting on it with hislittle clipboard on his arm.
He's got his hat on backwards,which I've come to find out is

(48:38):
called a Kangol.
And George Phillips Jr, and Iam your pretrial worker, ma'am,
you will report to me.
And he was very Jovial abouthis job at two in the morning
and I'm like okay, whatever yousay, here's the crazy thing.
George was my first pre-childworker.

(49:01):
Right as I went downhill in myaddiction, I crossed paths with
George, who was on his way upthrough the health department
Pre-child worker.
He was a counselor for me atone point.
He was that guy that wassitting at the head of the Rosk

(49:22):
table and he was a smart man.
He was a great mentor.
He was not in recovery but heunderstood those that needed
that right.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Clearly had the passion for it.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, my God, I mean and these are the things that
have happened to me over andover in my lifetime, right?
That's how I know it's divine.
That's how I know that the walkthat I walk is divine.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
It's funny that you say that because he implemented
the programs walk, the walk.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
He did.
He absolutely did right.
When I first recovered and aRundle meeting, I was like I
wanted to cover my face right.
I kept my head down and I'mlike, oh my God, it's Mr
Phillips, of all people, mrPhillips.
And I went and I sat down.

(50:18):
I didn't say a thing for likethe first three months that I
was there and finally he walkedup to me after a meeting and he
was like Ms Trainer, and I'mlike, hi, mr Phillips, right,
and he's like, oh my God, youlook so different.
And I was like, well, and Iexplained to him I was a couple
of years into the recoveryprocess and he was like, thank

(50:39):
God you're here.
We need the voice of recovery.
And that's when I startedrealizing that what we have to
say can be useful.
So, going back to that meetingand that woman getting in my ear
and saying I just wanted to letyou know this is the one year
anniversary of George passing,it struck me right then and

(51:01):
there and I went to my goodfriend Jen after that meeting
and I'm like the whole group gottogether and we sent a video
message to George's wife and hisdaughters and I was like
there's a name, george Phillips,doing a recovery community
center.
It could never be namedanything but Beautiful, so

(51:23):
Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, switching gears a little bit or pausing a
little bit.
I'm really curious.
I think I must ask, as a personin recovery and also you being
in recovery you're very busy,you get involved.
Other things that you do foryourself, like how do you unwind
in your downtime?
I think that would be good forpeople who are in recovery
listening as well, because selfcare has been a big part of the

(51:45):
recovery journey as well, so Iwant to take space and talk
about that a little bit too.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Thank you, because we don't.
Sometimes I have to have myfriends remind me right To.
Why don't you calm down?
Just calm down, angel,definitely.
I give my hand at meditationevery single morning.
Not great at it, but I takethat time to sit with self.

(52:10):
I have a network of women in mylife that, both in recovery and
out of recovery, that know me,and I'll spend time with my
girlfriends.
Probably the biggest thing forme is all is music.
I'm an old dead head, been adead head for lots of years.
People are like oh, that's whyyou don't wear shoes.

(52:33):
And I'm like no, I'm just morecomfortable barefoot, right, I
feel more grounded when I'mbarefoot.
I'm an old dead head.
And when I entered recovery Ithought I'm never gonna be able
to go to another concert.
I'm just not ever gonna be ableto do those things.
And about three years into myrecovery I was telling one of my

(52:56):
normal friends this, who alsois an old dead head.
She was like Angel, you're adumb, dumb.
And I'm like that's what I'mtalking about, that's why I
can't do that.
And she was like don't you knowabout the Warfrats?
And I'm like no idea.
And she was like girl, you'venever seen the yellow balloons

(53:17):
at a show and I'm like, yeah,but that's not the kind of
balloon I was thinking it wasthough right.
I was thinking it was thatparking lot balloon.
And she was like no, there's awhole group of people at debt
shows that have a meeting atevery intermission and I'm like,
oh my God, and I found thatright, and I found my people at

(53:41):
that very first show that I wentto and what I've come to
realize is that a Warfrats we'reeverywhere.
Right, there are Warfratseverywhere and that's what they
call a dead headed recovery as aWarfrat.
But it's not just the dead thatI follow.
I follow a lot of other bandsand I do a lot of other live
music, and artists themselvesare either in recovery or they

(54:07):
recognize that we need a safespace.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
There's so much more vocal about it, right.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
So that right there tells me that stigma is
diminishing in that way, right,and that we're recognized.
And the biggest thing for me isthat we don't have to stay
secretive anymore.
Right, we recover out loud, yourecover out loud.

(54:35):
But that's a big part of myself-care.
Do not tempt me with a goodtime.
I will get into a plane, atrain or an automobile to get
live music.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Time work out then, after the episode, my brain's
getting going Go ahead, sal Imean that's important about like
, because everything that you'vesaid has been about empowerment
like empowering people who havelost their voices, lost their
feelings, lost their sense ofbelonging.
But then recovery is powerfulin terms of like finding our
true self and then like what Iyou know, having fun and being

(55:07):
sober are not mutually exclusive.
Like I can have fun and besober.
That's been the most likeexciting things that I've seen
in my own life in recovery andalso with people too.
And I feel like you know,because in addiction we put you
know, our behavior, ouraddiction first, as opposed to
things that I wanted to do.
So it's been always fun to likesee people reconnecting with

(55:27):
their hobbies, their creativeoutlets, things like that
finding more meaning and purpose.
So it's great that you shareabout music being something that
reaches for an A year.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, I mean it's something that we can do, right,
and I don't know, I mean Iwould have to say another part
of that self-care isreconnecting with my family.
I have my grandmother.
My mother's mother is 101 yearsold, sassy oh, she's sassy man,

(55:59):
she.
I mean.
Every morning my grandma getsup and she dresses herself and
makes her bed, makes her owncoffee.
She's in recovery, right?
So my grandmother got soberwhen she was 50.
And, like, being able toconnect with her and talk about
recovery and apparently housingruns in the blood, skips a

(56:24):
generation, because my motherdoesn't want anything to do with
it and nor does my son.
But my grandmother ran ahalfway house in Laurel,
maryland, you know, 50 years ago.
Wow, right, so it's just, it'sin the blood.
But that's I mean.
For me, that's part of self-careis being able to connect with
my aunts and my uncles and mymom and be able to heal that,

(56:47):
the trauma that I caused, right,my son, jonathan, is 46 years
old and it's taken, you know,it's taken years to like repair
that damage.
You know, I work with my menwho have had their children

(57:09):
taken from them and I'm like, ohmy God, like I don't know what
I would have done if my son hadbeen taken from me.
I mean, I have one biologicalchild, two foster sons, and I
raised a nephew.
I put those kids through hell.
I mean, what's worse like beingtaken away from your mother or

(57:33):
laying in your bed when the SWATteam comes through the door
yeah they're in imprintedwreckage, Right, I mean it's
just wreckage.
So I've had an opportunity toheal that and that's part that
healing is part of self-care forme.
You know that being at peace,right, Because I can be at peace
with the things that I did.

(57:54):
I know today that my addictiondoes not define me right.
My past does not define who Iam.
I'll never forget that part ofme, right, Because the minute I
lose that is the minute thatthis person in recovery is in
trouble, Really good, stinkingthinking.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yeah, I can't help to think.
You know me as a formerclinical director and always on
call, and it's all bringing upthe self-care, and you've
already given one answer, whichis a good support team and you
don't do anything alone.
So I might be answering it, buthow do you not take all of this
on yourself?

(58:34):
You've gone through COVID andyou're director with this and
the creator of that, and how doyou separate when you need to
separate?
Because part of what thisepisode's about is do your own
advocacy, no matter how big orsmall, no matter how big or
small.
So people are hearing this like, oh my God, how in the world

(58:55):
does she have enough time?
How do you separate that whenyou need to separate that and
not own it?

Speaker 2 (59:04):
So in the last couple of years I have learned to say
no, it's a sentence Right.
No, it's a complete sentence,man.
When I heard that, I'm like,really, it has a period after it
, all right, then I've learnedto say no.
I have definitely learned thatI am not invincible.

(59:30):
I think that for me anyway.
I came into recovery and I feltlike I had wasted so much time,
that I had so much to catch upon, right, I have so much to do,
so much to catch up on.
But over the last couple ofyears, like I've realized, like

(59:52):
my mortality, I'm 61, right, andalthough in my head I am still
17 sometimes.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, maybe 30,.
I would never would haveguessed 61, but hey, you got
enough energy for us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
We.
I don't know about anybody elsein this world, but I did not
take good care of my body when Iwas out there doing those
things, and so I'm waiting forthis hip replacement.
But I can tell you that for thefirst couple of years that it
started to really go bad, I waslike stop being a baby.
You're just stop being a baby,stop whining, go take some more

(01:00:28):
Tylenol.
You know what I mean?
Like not realizing that therewas truly something wrong.
Here's a sign.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Here's a symptom.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
But you know, I've learned a little bit more about
my mortality and I've learnedthat Mm-hmm and in cause it, I
can't cure it, damn sure can'tcontrol it, right.
I've learned all of that in thelast few years.
When it comes to this realm,that that I work and I live in

(01:01:07):
Now don't get me wrong I havehad my heart Absolutely
shattered into a million pieceswith some of the people that I
have lost on this journey.
If you had told me Almost 17years ago that I would be An

(01:01:29):
ordained minister, which means Icould marry people, that's
right.
But it also means that there'sa potential that I would bury
people right and that I wouldgive eulogies, and that, to me,
is of the highest honor that Iwill ever have put on me.

(01:01:50):
Right is for somebody to ask meto do a eulogy for a family
member, and I've just come torealize that with the, with the
very high highs, there are goingto be lows, and then I have to
try to remain in the middlesomehow.
So how do I do it?
I don't know.
Prayer there's a lot of prayerthere, and I mean those, those

(01:02:13):
deep, meaningful prayers for me,especially in the morning
Before I get out of bed, right,yeah, because once I hit the
floor, like I mean they're gonnahit the floor, that hips gonna
be in a lot of pain or I'm gonnahit the ground running, I don't
know.
But that's you know, that'sself-care and I push self-care.
I push self-care on myemployees.
Yeah, I mean how you know Imight.

(01:02:35):
I've got a great staff rightnow and they know that I'm
serious about that self-care.
If I see that they'restruggling at 12, 1 o'clock in
the afternoon, like get out.
I Need you know, because someof our single moms I don't care
about the money o'clock out at 4, get out now.
Yeah, go, take care of yourself, go, you know, whatever it

(01:02:56):
takes, take a drive whatever ittakes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
So Looking ahead, what are some of your hopes and
visions for the future ofrecovery, support and advocacy,
whether it's an Annapoliscommunity or or and more of a
meta macro level, take it whereyou want.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
So Annapolis, in my opinion, is very recovery rich.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
We were saying that we're so blessed, we're
fortunate, part of some of thethings that you have helped set
up the conditions for, but goahead.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
But even before that, like thinking, like thinking
back historically, we'rerecovery rich right, especially
when it comes to 12-stepmeetings and in all that, like
we've we've got that hereBecause I've traveled parts of
the country where they don'tsparse.
Have that right, you have todrive 90 minutes to get to a
meeting.
Yeah, so we're very recoveryrich here.

(01:03:50):
For that I am grateful.
There are things in this areathat we work in that I
Displeased me.
If it was just me that itaffected and displeased, I would
say what's wrong with you,angel?
Hmm, but I see injusticeshappening and so we work.

(01:04:12):
There's a group of us at workfor that.
Hmm, you know, whether it'sPoor housing conditions, poor
treatment of individuals who areat their very most vulnerable
stage of their life.
Yeah, there's a group of usthat that advocate right at the

(01:04:33):
policymaker level to make thingsright statewide.
If I personally could get themall into a room In and help to
educate them like that would,for me that would be the bees
knees right there.
You know, and again, I've beenin the room with mayors and

(01:04:54):
county executives and lieutenantgovernors and and things like
that but to really help them tounderstand this is bipartisan.
I Want, I want to scream outthe truth, but what I've learned
is that truth withoutcompassion is just cruel.

(01:05:17):
It's just cruel.
Yeah, you know you, I have tohave the compassion for them
that maybe they don't understand, or maybe they're fighting it
in their own family and they'reafraid to talk about it.
I don't know.
But if I could get the state Onthe same level, on the same
page, that would be great.

(01:05:38):
I work with the Marylandrecovery advocacy project to
help with those things.
I I have some of the mostamazing people in my life.
I have a woman who has lost twodaughters to this disease and
you know she's gone to thefederal level and might fought

(01:06:00):
the Sacklers, you know any means.
So I don't know, where do I seeit?
I just wish that the stigmawasn't there, that people were
more more understanding and thatreally, overall, that we lived
in a society that was a littlemore peaceful.
Not sure where that that'sgonna go, but all right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Thank you for doing your part for that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Great having you and again fullcircle, good to have you here
after so many years, and I'veseen you active in recovery.
As I'm active in recovery and Ilike the note that you're
ending on, which is compassion,which is also part of recovery
too.
One of the biggest prayer in 12step talks about it's better to

(01:06:46):
understand than to beunderstood.
I feel like that's a goodguiding principle too when
communicating the truth, and Iwant to see the truth, but then
I want to Understand the otherperson first before saying the
truth, otherwise it can be, yeah, like you said, cruel.
Yeah, but only if I understandother people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
The truth can be like Communicate it with compassion,
so yeah, that's a really goodnote to an all if you don't have
that truth, then you're bothlike if you're butted up against
each other Nobody hearsanything.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I cannot ask this for .
The final question Forindividuals both inside and
outside recovery that want tocontribute to community Advocacy
efforts, will be yourrecommendation for them that
want to get involved at somelevel?

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
The first thing I would say is that recovery and a
Rundle meets the firstWednesday of every month in
Annapolis at Heritage BaptistChurch.
The meeting is from 10 o'clockto 1130.
We feed you a great breakfast,there's a.
There's a huge amount ofnetworking that goes on there
and and I just encourage peoplelike, come on in man, and we

(01:07:51):
need new voices.
Right, we need to hear whatother people feel or or what are
their strengths.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
I like to look at people's strengths Anytime you
can.
You can find me atwwwsurrendicesorg, or you can
find me atwwwrecoveryannarundleorg, and
shoot me that quick email and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
We talked about probably 10 or 15 things that
angel is a part of and I'll makesure to put the links for all
the the local State Communityorganization, all the levels
that she's involved with.
I'll make sure that I'll putall those in the episode notes
as well.
So as we wrap up thisinsightful conversation with
Angel trainer, we extend ourheartfelt gratitude for her

(01:08:38):
openness and dedication to therecovery community.
Angel's journey from foundingSerenity Sisters soberhouse to
her role as a coordinator andadvocate showcases the
transformative power ofDe-stigmatizing addiction and
community advocacy in the realmof addiction recovery.
Angel has illuminated thecrucial role of the continuum of
care and recovery wrap-aroundservices in shaping the recovery
experience.
Her passion for bridging gapswithin the system highlights the

(01:09:00):
need for comprehensive supportservices tailored to address the
unique challenges individualsface when their recovery journey
.
As we navigate the complexlandscape of addiction and
recovery, angels advocacy servesas a beacon of hope,
emphasizing the collectiveresponsibility we all share in
supporting those on the path torecovery.
Let's carry forward the wisdomshared today, fostering a

(01:09:26):
community that uplifts andempowers each individual toward
lasting well-being.
How will you advocate?
We encourage you to engage inlocal advocacy efforts and
support recovery initiatives inyour community.
So until next time, stay welland stay connected, as
collectively we can do so much.
My name is Luke.
This is all.

(01:09:48):
We'll see you next time.
Thanks so much, you.