April 29, 2024 • 38 mins
Zaw and I honor National Mental Health Awareness Month with truths that many of us keep hidden. We peel back the layers of stigma that often prevent those struggling with mental health from seeking the help they need. Through our open dialogue, we unravel the complexities of recognizing and treating mental health issues early, sharing staggering statistics and our own personal battles. We draw strength from our vulnerabilities, knowing our experiences could be the lantern in the dark for someone feeling isolated in their fight.
Navigating the murky waters of dual diagnosis, Zaw and I get candid about addiction's interplay with mental health, and how sobriety doesn't magically resolve underlying issues. Our discussion offers an intimate look at the gap between who we are and who we may appear to be when grappling with these challenges. We highlight the importance of therapy, community support, and accepting oneself, no matter where you are in your mental health journey. It's a reminder that every step towards understanding and self-care is a step towards resilience and healing.
The episode wraps with a hopeful focus on the transformative power of self-worth and the latest advancements in neuroscience that could change lives. We emphasize that happiness and peace are not just aspirations but that everyone has a right to. We share insights into proactive approaches to mental health, assuring listeners that regardless of the struggle, support and treatments are available. Our heartfelt conversation is more than just talk – it's a call to action to embrace your worth and to remember that your battle with mental health does not define you, nor does it have to be fought alone.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey there, listeners.
Today we're diving intosomething near and dear to our
hearts.
May is National Mental HealthAwareness Month.
It's a time to stop and reflecton the importance of mental
well-being, not just forourselves, but for everyone in
our lives.
In this episode, we're notshying away from the tough stuff
.
We're here to have an honest,raw conversation about mental
(00:25):
health, including our mentalhealth, the highs, the lows and
everything in between, because,let's face it, life can be messy
and our minds are no exception.
But fear not, we're not justhere to dwell on the challenges.
We're also bringing you somepowerful insights, practical
tips and a whole lot of love andsupport.
So if you're ready to dive deep, laugh a little and maybe feel
a little, then stick around.
(00:46):
This isn't just a podcastepisode.
It's a reminder that you're notalone, that your struggles are
valid and that there's alwayshope on the horizon.
Zal, my esteemed colleague,friend and my favorite
practicing Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Luke Welcome Welcome.
Thank you and as you mightremember, zal and some of our
listeners that we did afour-part series last September
on National Recovery Month,which were episodes 34 through
37.
And we want to at least devoteone episode and most of you guys
will be listening in May, andMay is National Awareness Month
(01:25):
for Mental Health.
How does that sound?
Sounds good, let's do it.
So let's look at thesignificance and our collective
listeners.
Did you know that since itsinception in 1949, Mental Health
Awareness Month has been acornerstone of addressing the
challenges faced by millions ofAmericans living with mental
health conditions?
(01:46):
I like to call it a nationalmovement.
This is really dedicated toeradicating stigma, extending
support, fostering publiceducation and advocating for
much-needed policies thatprioritize the well-being of
individuals and familiesaffected by mental illness as
opposed to stigmatizing them.
(02:07):
How does that sound?
Huh, Sounds good.
Yeah, so I think I'm going togive you some staggering stats
to really underline why it'simportant for us to focus on
this topic today.
50% of all lifetime mentalillnesses begin by age 14.
And 75% of all mental illnessesbegin by age 25.
(02:33):
So it's not like a middle stageor late stage of life thing
that half of us get these mentalillness symptoms and experience
these things at 14.
Pretty young, yeah pretty young,trying to look at my teenage
years.
And it hasn't gotten easier for14-year-olds, that's for sure.
(02:57):
I'll give you another statisticthe average delay between onset
of mental illness symptoms andtreatment 11 years.
That's staggering to me, is all, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, it's alarming.
It makes me think about mindand body.
When you see a diagnosis in thebody, it's accepted, there's
treatment.
Let's get it treated.
When it comes to the mind, it'sa different story.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
In some ways it's harder to identify whether it's
from other people or ourselves.
I mean 11 years from first setof symptoms.
So mental illness, mentaldiagnosis we're talking
depression, anxiety, bipolarschizophrenia, you name it that
11 years to be with thesesymptoms.
(03:45):
Can you imagine, think aboutanother illness with a different
organ than the brain that ifyou're dealing with?
Can you imagine having just abroken bone for 11 years and
feeling the pain and affectingyour movement and your everyday
life and not getting treatmentfor it for 11 years?
(04:05):
Suffering, suffering, suffering.
One more statistic One in fourUS adults experience mental
illness each year and only halfof them receive treatment.
So 25% of us experience someform of a mental illness each
(04:27):
year.
It's a lot, and some of us mightnot seek treatment if we have
these symptoms for 11 totalyears.
You know and I say that toempathize, but in some ways I
can relate to it, and what Imean by that is I'm a mental
(04:51):
health therapist, a certifiedaddiction counselor, and one of
the things that we've talked onthis personally in this podcast
before is finding a diagnosisfor our two-year-old daughter
and I even was seeking treatment.
By that I mean I was with atherapist and even though I had
(05:15):
a therapist through identifyingthis rare genetic condition for
my daughter and there'scertainly I knew I was going
through grief and change andfear, but even with all that's
all, I didn't realize howdepressed I was and that's wild
to think about.
But it took, you know, eightmonths to a year later for me to
(05:39):
look back and even though I wasin therapy and I talked to you
about it and close friends, thatI didn't realize how depressed
I was.
So in some ways I canunderstand not even in a stigma
way, but I can understand thatit can be hard to even identify
(05:59):
these mental illness symptoms orchallenges that we have with
our our brain and and our mentaland emotional ability.
I mean, I love it daily, I helppeople with it daily and
talking to my wife was like wowoh, yeah, I think, uh, more,
(06:25):
more reasons for theconversations and the dialogues
to be available.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think that really is, uh, where the hope is.
You know, because it's almostlike a muscle memory or muscle,
like a built-in muscle, that forme, a big part of learning to
treat my mental health comesfrom the place of allowing, like
creating space for me to feelwhat I'm feeling, because
(06:55):
there's that knee-jerk reactionthat, oh, I'm not supposed to be
feeling this, you know.
And it adds more Because I canthink about my own mental health
, which is a long journey, butI'm in a much better place
compared to before.
But it comes from that place ofI should not be feeling this or
wait.
This feeling is wrong, you know, but when there is a space and
(07:16):
the time, that's which is why Ithink therapy is really
important.
And then recovery community isvery important, where you're
able to verbalize where you'reat without being shamed or
without being judged.
Other person like, yeah, me too, I know what you're feeling,
you know there's strength inthat.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and I think you make a good point that, whether
it's I shouldn't be feelingthis or I'm just now realize,
I'm feeling this is reallynothing to be ashamed of.
I'm feeling this is reallynothing to be ashamed of.
I mean, we might not seephysical symptoms of cancer
until it's spread all across ourbody.
(07:51):
We might not be able to realizeor listen to some of these
symptoms that may be very subtleat first or close to
nonexistent, or we look back inhindsight and go oh yeah, there
are some signs there of otherorgan conditions, let alone the
brain, right?
So in some ways it is a medicalproblem, just like heart
(08:15):
disease or diabetes.
Mental illnesses are healthconditions involving, like we're
talking about, changes in inemotion, thinking or behavior,
or a combination of those.
It can be associated withdistress or problems functioning
in social settings, work orfamily activities.
(08:35):
And then, to add to it I thinkyou mentioned this it can
commonly be accompanied bysubstance use commonly be
accompanied by substance use.
To add to it, why do you thinksubstance use is often
associated in the medicalcomorbidity or dual diagnosis
with mental illness?
Why is that so common?
(08:56):
I don't have a statistic forthat, but we know it's common.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The dual diagnosis is very common.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
The substance use.
Yeah, I mean it's the chickenor the egg is very common, the
substance use.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean it's the chicken or the egg kind of
situation in my story, buteither way, both are present.
But I think about it in termsof the easy way out.
So if I'm feeling something andif I want to change it, drugs
and alcohol gives that rightaway, especially if it's not
commonly accepted.
And if I'm not open to and ifI'm not open to treatment, or if
(09:26):
I'm like worried about certainthings, like I'm not going to
look for treatment but I'm goingto look for my own treatment
and that's because I havecontrol over it, as opposed to
going to a treatment center orlike sharing about with somebody
.
So that's why, in my experience, that's why substance abuse was
a real go-to and it also evenadded more to the actual symptom
(09:48):
.
So it's like feed off of eachother very negatively and take
it to the extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and if we look at this medically, if my
pancreas is dysfunctioning andnot making insulin, well, let's
compare it to the brain.
If my brain is not releasing alot of serotonin or dopamine,
which is feel good, I canself-medicate or pacify or
change the way I'm feeling,maybe to the level of feel good
or euphoria with drugs oralcohol.
So for a lot of people, it ischanging how I'm feeling, even
to the level of feeling good.
(10:28):
I think I have worked with orhave worked with many clients
over the years that abuse drugsand or alcohol addictively
alcoholically addictively.
But for a strong percentage ofthem, when their brain chemistry
(10:53):
gets a little bit more balancedand changed all of a sudden,
their obsession or theircompulsion to self-medicate goes
way down to maybe nothing andit's like oh man, I don't want
this or need this.
So that is true for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I did not grow up in this country but I
definitely fall under that.
Statistics that you mentionedMaybe it was more than 11 years
until it was probably treated,but it does make me think about
why alcohol and drugs were thetreatment.
Statistics that you mentionedmaybe it was more than 11 years
until it was probably treated,but it does make me think about
why alcohol and drugs were thetreatment, but also at the same
time, how adversely it affectedthe nature of the real symptom,
(11:36):
because it promotes theisolation, the drug use.
So that's why it makes theproblem even more problematic.
The more you use, you thinkyou're going out and then you're
socializing, but then yourworld becomes a lot more.
My world became a lot moresmaller, tiny little bit, and
then it created more problems.
So definitely they reallyaffect each other very
(11:58):
negatively.
That's why there's also so muchcommon.
The dual diagnosis is verycommon.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Can you give us a little bit more about whether
it's your story with substancesand how do you look back on
whether it's your depression orintrusive thoughts and the
mental illness part orchallenges you've had with that?
As opposed to addiction, howhas that journey been?
(12:32):
If you don't mind sharing?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I can share, yeah, but, like I mean, it all comes
down to not having any healthycoping skills.
Because life is challenging, Ithink everybody does suffer from
some kind of mental malady to acertain extent, but I think
there is some kind of a geneticor chemical disposition for
people like you know, addictsand alcoholics and mental health
(12:54):
problem.
But for me it was like a builtup of some little problem and
then dealing with dealing withthat in an unhealthy way over
and over again started creatingmore distance between my true
self and my created wrong self.
So for me that was like a setupfor drugs and alcohol created
(13:15):
wrong self.
So for me that was like thesetup for drugs and alcohol
because that was my coping skill.
I mean, for me to be morespecific, I struggle a lot with
like, uh yeah, self-image issue,like always afraid of things,
not being confident, likethere's always something
limiting, and then drugs andalcohol was like a coping skill
for that because it takes me outof it completely and I get to
be real in my head, you know,but that that didn't lead me to
(13:39):
a good place.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So yeah, yeah, it's good.
One example I see I don't knowif you called it like a
underlying cause or condition orusing substances as a solution
to that less than or thatself-image.
And it's not uncommon forpeople to seek therapy or
(14:01):
coaching after 5, 10, 15 yearsof sobriety because all of a
sudden the substance use and thebehaviors are gone.
But some of the whether youcall it a mental illness or just
mental health can be somepeople's lowest points and you
(14:21):
hear people say in the rooms allthe time man, I had a bottom in
sobriety, whether it's withdepression or apathy or lack of
motivation, or even for somepeople it's suicidal ideation
and that is gone the substanceuse piece and the direct
behaviors where substances isgone.
But I I've certainly seen manypeople with 5, 10, 15, 20 years
(14:46):
sober that go oh, I'm stillstruggling with something and I
don't know what, and and that'sin general mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, I think a big part of for me.
I think about solution, orthink about like teachings, or
like the most effective teachingor the most effective solution
is a living solution.
You know so, if I'm seeing anexample of a mentally healthy
person, I'm inspired by that.
You know so, if I'm seeing anexample of a mentally healthy
person, I'm inspired by that.
You know so, like that, I thinkthat's really is like hopefully
(15:19):
we'll get to that point in thefuture.
But like there's a lot ofemphasis on because body can be
seen.
So if I see somebody who'sreally fit, I feel inspired to
eat healthy, stay fit.
But then it's kind of different,like when I see somebody who's
mentally healthy, in a way oflike that person is so kind, I
love being around that person,very compassionate.
(15:40):
When that becomes like a goodexample, you feel more inspired
to take care of your mind,because mind cannot be seen in a
way, the body can be seen.
So I feel like if there is moreof the promotion or more
awareness of that, how importantit is to take care of the mind,
because you can just sense itby some examples that will be
more of like a strive for okay,I'm not feeling good.
(16:02):
Let me ask help for that by 14already.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I think one of the things that we will address
is the reality is that that canbe in flux, and what I mean by
that is, oh my gosh, I feel likeI'm doing all the right things
and I should be mentally healthyor not struggling with my
(16:26):
thoughts or my mood, but guesswhat?
It can still happen, which canpotentially create stigmas, and
I don't want to focus on stigma,but I want to focus on
acceptance and not just mentalhealth awareness.
(16:48):
I can be aware that I can setup the conditions for me to be
healthy physically, mentally,emotionally and spiritually and
I'm not going to be perfect inalways setting up the conditions
for my mental health andphysical health, and I'm not
always 100%.
I don't always give my 100%best, and I'm aware of that.
(17:08):
So it's not the awareness thatI necessarily struggle with.
So it's not the awareness thatI necessarily struggle with.
It's sometimes the acceptance,because I can be aware and it
doesn't call for action, and Ithink that's one of the things
that I'm hearing.
It's the attractive piece forme and, whether it's my recovery
(17:29):
or my health journey or mebeing, I think, a parent of
someone who has special needs,it's that there can be dips and
I can be aware of it.
But being aware doesn't alwayscall for action and a change in
behavior, of thinking, buttaking the acceptance with an
(17:50):
action, I think that's.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
yeah, I think that even makes that example even
more attracting right, I seesomebody struggling and I also
see somebody asking for help,you know, despite how great he
was doing earlier, you know.
So like that, I mean for methat really is the human nature
and that person is being realwhen he does that.
Otherwise it's just a posterchild kind of situation.
I'm just happy all the time.
(18:14):
There's no difficulty in mylife, as opposed to I was happy,
but now I'm facing somedifficulty and I'm asking for
help and respondingappropriately to the situation.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, I think one of our messages that we wanted to
get across today is how do wetake care of yourself, take care
of yourself, you know, andthere are numerous ups and downs
and some are solvable andsometimes they're not so much
solvable.
So, like when our mental healthacts up, hopefully we seek
(18:51):
support and treatment, likeyou're saying, and that's taking
care of ourself and one of ourcommon threads that's, I think,
a common message that we sharein this podcast and a collective
solution to health and wellnessis collectively, we can do
together so much more than wecan do individually.
(19:12):
Yeah, I do a lot better when Iget support to take care of
myself, and that's one of ourcommon threads that I think.
When we talk, I go oh, this isone of the messages that I'm
also getting from what we sharetoday.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah.
For me, community is a big partof taking care of myself, which
sounds kind of paradoxical.
I'm taking care of myself,which sounds kind of paradoxical
.
I'm taking care of myself bybeing involved in the community.
But I used to write, I used tojournal, write a lot, which
really helped.
But at the same time, incomparison, I think I wasn't a
good witness to my own situationby myself.
(19:53):
But, like when I'm stayingconnected with other people,
it's like a memory that I'vecreated because I'm, we're
forgetful people.
So the more I interact withpeople, the more identity that
I'm creating for myself.
So because what gets us goingis the meaning and the purpose,
because I went through lots ofdifficulty, lots of difficulties
(20:14):
going on family situation, mycountry military coup, losing
some friends.
When that happened I was likewhy am I alive?
And then that can create areally deep depression that wait
, what am I doing here?
I don't live in my country, I'mliving here, my family's here,
I have children.
What do I do?
But then when that happens,when you connect with the person
(20:36):
, the people you've been stayingin touch with, you get a
reminder of wait, there's apurpose for my living.
For me, that really is the keyof taking care of myself, where,
okay, my purpose is to show up,help others keep getting better
.
And then the good thing aboutrecovery community is that, even
if I cannot do anything, mypurpose is to stay sober.
(20:57):
That becomes like a really goodbuilding blocks for greater
things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And sometimes we just suffer in silence.
And part of another message andthanks for being transparent
about that is how do we takecare of our loved ones, how do
we check on friends and family?
And sometimes all people needis whether it's a shoulder to to
(21:23):
physically or metaphoricallycry on.
But you know, if that's a hugechapter in your life of change
and sadness and low mood andexistential understanding
understandable existentialismlike what, why, what is this all
about?
And just being present withsomeone and checking in on loved
(21:45):
ones is just huge for it.
Treating mental, mental healthreally is, really is it's a one.
I think that also feeds intotalking about it.
I can only imagine in thatchapter in your life you felt
(22:06):
isolated, but did you stayisolated with your own thoughts
and emotions during that time?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Not really.
No, I have conditions set upthat didn't allow me to stay
isolated.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
People kept reaching out.
I still have vocabularies forhow I was feeling, you know, and
, uh, there were routines, uh,meditation practice.
Like you know, mood followsaction is what I've learned from
that experience.
I just gotta keep doing it,even if I'm not feeling it.
So it was very helpful.
I did not feel isolated at all.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very involvedin the 12-step fellowship.
(22:45):
So I learned a lot from thatfellowship, which is universal
principles, from my Buddhistbackground too.
It's really about, yeah, likekind of keeping my selfishness
at bay, and the best way to dothat is to be helpful to others,
you know.
So for me, that really got megoing, because the more I talked
(23:08):
about it, the more I wasrelatable.
Other people relate to it and Ifelt more human.
You know, I felt more connectedto other people by being real.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So the more we talk about it, the more we normalize
it, the less we aren't justaware of it, but we can lead to
action and change.
You know, if you go to a doctorand you're having some pain,
what do they ask you every time?
How's your pain?
Your pain level is verysubjective and personable, no
(23:41):
one can deny that.
But there's a reason why adoctor says well, what is your
pain level?
How intense is that emotion?
Is that physical, mental,emotional feeling?
We're doing it with this organ.
What's going on?
The more we talk about it, themore we normalize it and we can
(24:03):
do something about it.
We can be aware of it, acceptit and lead to action and change
.
I think that's another thingthat's really important.
I do this for a living.
So when people have a strugglewith the organ of the brain
which affects how we think, howwe feel, how we act and react
(24:27):
which is one of the reasons whythere's a stigma and prejudice
and discrimination, because it'snot that you've got a pain in
your body it can lead tothoughts and emotions and
reactions which can affect otherpeople and they don't like that
, but people don't innately.
(24:48):
There's no training manual to gookay.
What kind of help do I need?
How can I get help for this?
Who do I trust?
What are my next steps?
Whether it's therapy, whetherit's an inpatient and outpatient
, whether it's medication,whether it's other treatment
modalities, there's a lot of thenext now.
(25:10):
In the next 20 years, there'sgoing to be a lot of different
modalities physiological,chemical and machinery, even to
help with mental illnesses.
So I'm going to encouragepeople to explore different
mental health treatments.
You're not an expert, soexplore.
(25:32):
Google search five differenttherapy styles for depression or
whatever you're going through,whether it's anxiety, whether
it's panic, whether it's voices,whether it's grief of being
married to someone that's anarcissist you name it.
Google search five differenttreatments for it.
(25:54):
Turn on a podcast.
There's a lot of wonderfulmental health therapy podcasts.
We touch upon that here Atherapist, a Buddhist and you.
There's the Happiness Lab, theMental Illness Happy Hour.
There's a podcast calledTerrible.
Thanks for Asking.
Therapy for black girls.
(26:15):
Right, that's important to go.
How do I relate to my issues,my depression, my anxiety, my
cultural things that areaffecting me?
There's Therapy Chat by LauraReagan, who's a wonderful local
therapist, who's been doing itfor years and she has a
wonderful podcast and a lot ofit's geared towards trauma.
(26:37):
There's YouTube videos, justexplore.
We have so many options that wecan begin to learn and begin to
feel understood in some ways.
Like I said, I didn't realize Iwas feeling depression.
What is going on here?
I process it with my therapistand my spouse.
(26:58):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I was feeling depression.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
What is going on here ?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I process it with my therapist and my spouse and oh,
oh boy.
You know, yeah, I'm still stuckon that thing about the delay.
You know from, yeah, that 11years.
Because in hindsight and I wantthis message across too that
these are challenges but thenalso like kind of blessings in
disguise too.
You know, because I've heard somany success stories where
(27:23):
almost like to the point of likethe chosen ones, where you have
these struggles, the earlieryou treat it, it's almost like a
superpower where you get totreat it and then get stronger
on the other side, other side,and that you're not only an
example but like can be usefulto other people if it's treated.
Because you know life isproblematic.
(27:43):
That's my buddhist belief,that's the first noble truth.
But then what coping skill am Icoming up with?
Like real solid coping skilland once I use that, like all
these challenges are dealt withand then they stay with you, the
coping skills, and then theybecome even stronger over the
years.
You know, so like, if only Icould treat everything that I
was suffering at the age of 14or earlier.
(28:06):
The earlier it is treated, thebetter, or the earlier it is
talked about, the better,because it gives you more
strength Very paradoxical.
You get strength by admittingyour weakness in a way you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, a collective solution to health and wellness,
not just treating a symptom butpotentially underlining causes
and conditions.
And what I mean by that is,yeah, a person is their thoughts
, their emotions, their feelings, their brain chemistry, and the
human is the most complexpuzzle that I can think of,
(28:43):
which is just phenomenal andscary and frightening and makes
mental health that much morechallenging.
But because we know that, Ithink that's one of the reasons
that we often see things from anEastern philosophy as opposed
to just a Western.
(29:03):
Here's a problem, here's asymptom, get rid of this symptom
but not really always see theunderlining causes and
conditions.
And that's kind of the approachthat we take on this podcast
and that the guests we bring onfrom the still-ate ganglion
block and the fight-or-flightresponse in people with trauma
(29:24):
and being able to stop thatresponse.
People can often do better withtheir trauma response and their
fight-or-flight response andchanges the neural pathways of
the brain.
Cool episode, check it out onSGB for trauma.
But that's part of what I hopemoving forward, what really
(29:45):
policies and procedures and whatwe understand the brain to be
and I say a version of this alot.
When it comes to a healthcondition, the brain comes with
the biggest stigma.
If you look at any other organ,like we said, the pancreas
(30:07):
stops producing insulin, peopledon't judge you and say you're
broken.
No, if your heart has to workharder and increases blood
pressure and is the precursor tofive blocked arteries in your
heart and you need a quintuplebypass surgery, they're not
going to say that you don'tdeserve the surgery.
Now I would also like for us toempower and going okay, get the
(30:33):
surgery, get the treatment, getthe insulin, but let's also,
whenever we begin to see thesesigns and symptoms, let's treat
the whole person.
And the stress, the environment, the nutrition, the physical,
the mental, the emotional thewhole part of the person can
(30:55):
directly or indirectly affectsomeone's mental health and
well-being.
And sometimes, with some of myclients that are very
(31:15):
anti-medication the physical,the things that they have
control over with the thoughtstopping, and the emotional and
coping strategies, and physicalhealth and emotional health and
they realize, man, there's stillthis chemical thing that I felt
like I controlled the thingsthat I could control and I'm
still struggling with dark,intrusive thoughts or this
(31:39):
depression that won't change.
And then they decide tointroduce a medication then, or
micro dosing or things that arenew in the past five, 10, 15
years and they go wow, I canfinally X, my brain can finally
exhale, or I don't have thesedark, deep, intrusive thoughts,
(32:04):
or I don't have this suicidalthoughts anymore, or, for the
first time since I was a littlegirl, I feel good about my
decisions and I feel like I canhave a conversation.
So it's looking at the whole ofthe person and sometimes it is
the brain chemistry that theydon't have enough serotonin or
(32:30):
dopamine, or a trauma responsehas adversely affected, or a
traumatic brain injury hasadversely affected someone's
ability to think, feel and actin a way that they used to and
they need help with.
There was a lot there, a littlebit of a rant, but what do you
think?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, I hope this podcast is helpful, because one
thing that comes to mind inconclusion is, uh, pretty much
the underlying thought that Iwant to cultivate which is
always true, and that I wanteverybody else to cultivate is
that, no matter who you are like, everybody is worthy of
(33:07):
happiness.
Everybody deserves, uh, a lifeof peace and happiness, you know
, and it is possible.
So, uh, but, like, that hopecan make a huge difference
because it's just an attitude.
You know, life sucks, thingsare difficult, but I know I
deserve to be happy.
You know, as soon as I am ableto switch my attitude to that,
(33:27):
like, what I do throughout theday is completely different from
like, oh, I'm just a victim,you know this, and that I'm just
going to sit and not doanything, you know, as opposed
to wait, I deserve to be happy.
So what can I do?
Go out, take a walk, make somecoffee, talk to a friend, you
know.
Make some healthy food, read,you know, play some music, you
(33:48):
know, whatever it is Like, youjust start doing things because
you believe that you are worthyof happiness and you start
making things happen.
So I really want to send amessage across about the fact
that, not only that you deserveto be happy, but, like that's
the underlying innate nature foreverybody, everybody's looking
for that same thing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And you know, zal, I've had more than a handful of
clients that brain chemistrythat's off, or the rewiring the
neural pathways, the physical,mental, emotional, spiritual
peace and and all of a suddenthey have that senseful it's
(34:34):
like.
And one individual I'm thinkingof said is this what normal
people feel all the time?
This is and this is bullshit.
If I felt this 30 of the time,I'd feel like I'd be a
functioning member of society.
I think one of my messages is Idon't want anyone to have to
(34:58):
suffer for that long movingforward.
And there's still so much,unfortunately, we don't know
about the brain and we'refinding out.
Now.
We're in the infantile stage,but just now there's been some
incredible findings with thebrain and what can help change
that chemistry in ways thatserotonin and SSRIs weren't
(35:22):
doing for some people and thephysical things that we are very
proponents of.
That you do have the power tochange these things for a large
percentage of people in theirmental health.
And if you're losing hope,reach out to someone.
There are other potentialsolutions.
(35:43):
And I think part of thefrustrating piece is and we see
this with substance use we don'twant to suffer, and the
continuous suffering can bereally challenging, so seek out
for help.
Seek out for help.
We'll provide a lot of servicesand the episode notes, and I
(36:06):
think this is why we have tohighlight that we don't want
anyone to suffer for 11 yearsbefore they seek treatment.
And eventually, one thing thatwe didn't provide statistics for
is how long does it take forthese symptoms to go away?
Well, you and I and the workthat we do here at the Recovery
Collective- we're very fortunate.
(36:26):
I think part of it because ofour philosophy is that we get to
see people, a lot of theirsymptoms go dormant or go away
and then they have a proactiveapproach for their whatever
their version of recovery is andtheir mental health and their
behavioral health is movingforward yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, thank you for bringing this topic up.
We can probably revisit itagain, because this is the main
thing that we do.
Yeah, mental health for me ishappiness, meaning you know
values in alignment with who Iam.
That's yeah, so I'm glad we didthis episode.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Thank you all for listening and, as we close
today's episode, we want toextend our deepest gratitude to
each and every one of you forjoining us in this really
important conversation aboutmental health.
Remember your mental healthmatters and it's okay to seek
support when you need it or whenyou want it.
I encourage you to share thisepisode with your friends,
(37:29):
family and community to helpspread awareness and support for
mental health.
Together, we can break thebarriers and create a world
where everyone feels safe,supported, understood and help
with our symptoms.
If you or someone you know isstruggling, please don't
hesitate to reach out for help.
There are resources availableand you're not alone.
Take care of yourselves andremember that there is always
(37:52):
hope and help available.
Thank you for listening andplease share with others Until
next time.
My name is Luke and this is Zal.
Take care, thank you.
Hey there, listeners.
Today we're diving intosomething near and dear to our
hearts.
May is National Mental HealthAwareness Month.
It's a time to stop and reflecton the importance of mental
well-being, not just forourselves, but for everyone in
our lives.
In this episode, we're notshying away from the tough stuff
.
We're here to have an honest,raw conversation about mental
(00:25):
health, including our mentalhealth, the highs, the lows and
everything in between, because,let's face it, life can be messy
and our minds are no exception.
But fear not, we're not justhere to dwell on the challenges.
We're also bringing you somepowerful insights, practical
tips and a whole lot of love andsupport.
So if you're ready to dive deep, laugh a little and maybe feel
a little, then stick around.
(00:46):
This isn't just a podcastepisode.
It's a reminder that you're notalone, that your struggles are
valid and that there's alwayshope on the horizon.
Zal, my esteemed colleague,friend and my favorite
practicing Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Luke Welcome Welcome.
Thank you and as you mightremember, zal and some of our
listeners that we did afour-part series last September
on National Recovery Month,which were episodes 34 through
37.
And we want to at least devoteone episode and most of you guys
will be listening in May, andMay is National Awareness Month
(01:25):
for Mental Health.
How does that sound?
Sounds good, let's do it.
So let's look at thesignificance and our collective
listeners.
Did you know that since itsinception in 1949, Mental Health
Awareness Month has been acornerstone of addressing the
challenges faced by millions ofAmericans living with mental
health conditions?
(01:46):
I like to call it a nationalmovement.
This is really dedicated toeradicating stigma, extending
support, fostering publiceducation and advocating for
much-needed policies thatprioritize the well-being of
individuals and familiesaffected by mental illness as
opposed to stigmatizing them.
(02:07):
How does that sound?
Huh, Sounds good.
Yeah, so I think I'm going togive you some staggering stats
to really underline why it'simportant for us to focus on
this topic today.
50% of all lifetime mentalillnesses begin by age 14.
And 75% of all mental illnessesbegin by age 25.
(02:33):
So it's not like a middle stageor late stage of life thing
that half of us get these mentalillness symptoms and experience
these things at 14.
Pretty young, yeah pretty young,trying to look at my teenage
years.
And it hasn't gotten easier for14-year-olds, that's for sure.
(02:57):
I'll give you another statisticthe average delay between onset
of mental illness symptoms andtreatment 11 years.
That's staggering to me, is all, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, it's alarming.
It makes me think about mindand body.
When you see a diagnosis in thebody, it's accepted, there's
treatment.
Let's get it treated.
When it comes to the mind, it'sa different story.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
In some ways it's harder to identify whether it's
from other people or ourselves.
I mean 11 years from first setof symptoms.
So mental illness, mentaldiagnosis we're talking
depression, anxiety, bipolarschizophrenia, you name it that
11 years to be with thesesymptoms.
(03:45):
Can you imagine, think aboutanother illness with a different
organ than the brain that ifyou're dealing with?
Can you imagine having just abroken bone for 11 years and
feeling the pain and affectingyour movement and your everyday
life and not getting treatmentfor it for 11 years?
(04:05):
Suffering, suffering, suffering.
One more statistic One in fourUS adults experience mental
illness each year and only halfof them receive treatment.
So 25% of us experience someform of a mental illness each
(04:27):
year.
It's a lot, and some of us mightnot seek treatment if we have
these symptoms for 11 totalyears.
You know and I say that toempathize, but in some ways I
can relate to it, and what Imean by that is I'm a mental
(04:51):
health therapist, a certifiedaddiction counselor, and one of
the things that we've talked onthis personally in this podcast
before is finding a diagnosisfor our two-year-old daughter
and I even was seeking treatment.
By that I mean I was with atherapist and even though I had
(05:15):
a therapist through identifyingthis rare genetic condition for
my daughter and there'scertainly I knew I was going
through grief and change andfear, but even with all that's
all, I didn't realize howdepressed I was and that's wild
to think about.
But it took, you know, eightmonths to a year later for me to
(05:39):
look back and even though I wasin therapy and I talked to you
about it and close friends, thatI didn't realize how depressed
I was.
So in some ways I canunderstand not even in a stigma
way, but I can understand thatit can be hard to even identify
(05:59):
these mental illness symptoms orchallenges that we have with
our our brain and and our mentaland emotional ability.
I mean, I love it daily, I helppeople with it daily and
talking to my wife was like wowoh, yeah, I think, uh, more,
(06:25):
more reasons for theconversations and the dialogues
to be available.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think that really is, uh, where the hope is.
You know, because it's almostlike a muscle memory or muscle,
like a built-in muscle, that forme, a big part of learning to
treat my mental health comesfrom the place of allowing, like
creating space for me to feelwhat I'm feeling, because
(06:55):
there's that knee-jerk reactionthat, oh, I'm not supposed to be
feeling this, you know.
And it adds more Because I canthink about my own mental health
, which is a long journey, butI'm in a much better place
compared to before.
But it comes from that place ofI should not be feeling this or
wait.
This feeling is wrong, you know, but when there is a space and
(07:16):
the time, that's which is why Ithink therapy is really
important.
And then recovery community isvery important, where you're
able to verbalize where you'reat without being shamed or
without being judged.
Other person like, yeah, me too, I know what you're feeling,
you know there's strength inthat.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and I think you make a good point that, whether
it's I shouldn't be feelingthis or I'm just now realize,
I'm feeling this is reallynothing to be ashamed of.
I'm feeling this is reallynothing to be ashamed of.
I mean, we might not seephysical symptoms of cancer
until it's spread all across ourbody.
(07:51):
We might not be able to realizeor listen to some of these
symptoms that may be very subtleat first or close to
nonexistent, or we look back inhindsight and go oh yeah, there
are some signs there of otherorgan conditions, let alone the
brain, right?
So in some ways it is a medicalproblem, just like heart
(08:15):
disease or diabetes.
Mental illnesses are healthconditions involving, like we're
talking about, changes in inemotion, thinking or behavior,
or a combination of those.
It can be associated withdistress or problems functioning
in social settings, work orfamily activities.
(08:35):
And then, to add to it I thinkyou mentioned this it can
commonly be accompanied bysubstance use commonly be
accompanied by substance use.
To add to it, why do you thinksubstance use is often
associated in the medicalcomorbidity or dual diagnosis
with mental illness?
Why is that so common?
(08:56):
I don't have a statistic forthat, but we know it's common.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The dual diagnosis is very common.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
The substance use.
Yeah, I mean it's the chickenor the egg is very common, the
substance use.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean it's the chicken or the egg kind of
situation in my story, buteither way, both are present.
But I think about it in termsof the easy way out.
So if I'm feeling something andif I want to change it, drugs
and alcohol gives that rightaway, especially if it's not
commonly accepted.
And if I'm not open to and ifI'm not open to treatment, or if
(09:26):
I'm like worried about certainthings, like I'm not going to
look for treatment but I'm goingto look for my own treatment
and that's because I havecontrol over it, as opposed to
going to a treatment center orlike sharing about with somebody
.
So that's why, in my experience, that's why substance abuse was
a real go-to and it also evenadded more to the actual symptom
(09:48):
.
So it's like feed off of eachother very negatively and take
it to the extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and if we look at this medically, if my
pancreas is dysfunctioning andnot making insulin, well, let's
compare it to the brain.
If my brain is not releasing alot of serotonin or dopamine,
which is feel good, I canself-medicate or pacify or
change the way I'm feeling,maybe to the level of feel good
or euphoria with drugs oralcohol.
So for a lot of people, it ischanging how I'm feeling, even
to the level of feeling good.
(10:28):
I think I have worked with orhave worked with many clients
over the years that abuse drugsand or alcohol addictively
alcoholically addictively.
But for a strong percentage ofthem, when their brain chemistry
(10:53):
gets a little bit more balancedand changed all of a sudden,
their obsession or theircompulsion to self-medicate goes
way down to maybe nothing andit's like oh man, I don't want
this or need this.
So that is true for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I did not grow up in this country but I
definitely fall under that.
Statistics that you mentionedMaybe it was more than 11 years
until it was probably treated,but it does make me think about
why alcohol and drugs were thetreatment.
Statistics that you mentionedmaybe it was more than 11 years
until it was probably treated,but it does make me think about
why alcohol and drugs were thetreatment, but also at the same
time, how adversely it affectedthe nature of the real symptom,
(11:36):
because it promotes theisolation, the drug use.
So that's why it makes theproblem even more problematic.
The more you use, you thinkyou're going out and then you're
socializing, but then yourworld becomes a lot more.
My world became a lot moresmaller, tiny little bit, and
then it created more problems.
So definitely they reallyaffect each other very
(11:58):
negatively.
That's why there's also so muchcommon.
The dual diagnosis is verycommon.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Can you give us a little bit more about whether
it's your story with substancesand how do you look back on
whether it's your depression orintrusive thoughts and the
mental illness part orchallenges you've had with that?
As opposed to addiction, howhas that journey been?
(12:32):
If you don't mind sharing?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I can share, yeah, but, like I mean, it all comes
down to not having any healthycoping skills.
Because life is challenging, Ithink everybody does suffer from
some kind of mental malady to acertain extent, but I think
there is some kind of a geneticor chemical disposition for
people like you know, addictsand alcoholics and mental health
(12:54):
problem.
But for me it was like a builtup of some little problem and
then dealing with dealing withthat in an unhealthy way over
and over again started creatingmore distance between my true
self and my created wrong self.
So for me that was like a setupfor drugs and alcohol created
(13:15):
wrong self.
So for me that was like thesetup for drugs and alcohol
because that was my coping skill.
I mean, for me to be morespecific, I struggle a lot with
like, uh yeah, self-image issue,like always afraid of things,
not being confident, likethere's always something
limiting, and then drugs andalcohol was like a coping skill
for that because it takes me outof it completely and I get to
be real in my head, you know,but that that didn't lead me to
(13:39):
a good place.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So yeah, yeah, it's good.
One example I see I don't knowif you called it like a
underlying cause or condition orusing substances as a solution
to that less than or thatself-image.
And it's not uncommon forpeople to seek therapy or
(14:01):
coaching after 5, 10, 15 yearsof sobriety because all of a
sudden the substance use and thebehaviors are gone.
But some of the whether youcall it a mental illness or just
mental health can be somepeople's lowest points and you
(14:21):
hear people say in the rooms allthe time man, I had a bottom in
sobriety, whether it's withdepression or apathy or lack of
motivation, or even for somepeople it's suicidal ideation
and that is gone the substanceuse piece and the direct
behaviors where substances isgone.
But I I've certainly seen manypeople with 5, 10, 15, 20 years
(14:46):
sober that go oh, I'm stillstruggling with something and I
don't know what, and and that'sin general mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, I think a big part of for me.
I think about solution, orthink about like teachings, or
like the most effective teachingor the most effective solution
is a living solution.
You know so, if I'm seeing anexample of a mentally healthy
person, I'm inspired by that.
You know so, if I'm seeing anexample of a mentally healthy
person, I'm inspired by that.
You know so, like that, I thinkthat's really is like hopefully
(15:19):
we'll get to that point in thefuture.
But like there's a lot ofemphasis on because body can be
seen.
So if I see somebody who'sreally fit, I feel inspired to
eat healthy, stay fit.
But then it's kind of different,like when I see somebody who's
mentally healthy, in a way oflike that person is so kind, I
love being around that person,very compassionate.
(15:40):
When that becomes like a goodexample, you feel more inspired
to take care of your mind,because mind cannot be seen in a
way, the body can be seen.
So I feel like if there is moreof the promotion or more
awareness of that, how importantit is to take care of the mind,
because you can just sense itby some examples that will be
more of like a strive for okay,I'm not feeling good.
(16:02):
Let me ask help for that by 14already.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I think one of the things that we will address
is the reality is that that canbe in flux, and what I mean by
that is, oh my gosh, I feel likeI'm doing all the right things
and I should be mentally healthyor not struggling with my
(16:26):
thoughts or my mood, but guesswhat?
It can still happen, which canpotentially create stigmas, and
I don't want to focus on stigma,but I want to focus on
acceptance and not just mentalhealth awareness.
(16:48):
I can be aware that I can setup the conditions for me to be
healthy physically, mentally,emotionally and spiritually and
I'm not going to be perfect inalways setting up the conditions
for my mental health andphysical health, and I'm not
always 100%.
I don't always give my 100%best, and I'm aware of that.
(17:08):
So it's not the awareness thatI necessarily struggle with.
So it's not the awareness thatI necessarily struggle with.
It's sometimes the acceptance,because I can be aware and it
doesn't call for action, and Ithink that's one of the things
that I'm hearing.
It's the attractive piece forme and, whether it's my recovery
(17:29):
or my health journey or mebeing, I think, a parent of
someone who has special needs,it's that there can be dips and
I can be aware of it.
But being aware doesn't alwayscall for action and a change in
behavior, of thinking, buttaking the acceptance with an
(17:50):
action, I think that's.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
yeah, I think that even makes that example even
more attracting right, I seesomebody struggling and I also
see somebody asking for help,you know, despite how great he
was doing earlier, you know.
So like that, I mean for methat really is the human nature
and that person is being realwhen he does that.
Otherwise it's just a posterchild kind of situation.
I'm just happy all the time.
(18:14):
There's no difficulty in mylife, as opposed to I was happy,
but now I'm facing somedifficulty and I'm asking for
help and respondingappropriately to the situation.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, I think one of our messages that we wanted to
get across today is how do wetake care of yourself, take care
of yourself, you know, andthere are numerous ups and downs
and some are solvable andsometimes they're not so much
solvable.
So, like when our mental healthacts up, hopefully we seek
(18:51):
support and treatment, likeyou're saying, and that's taking
care of ourself and one of ourcommon threads that's, I think,
a common message that we sharein this podcast and a collective
solution to health and wellnessis collectively, we can do
together so much more than wecan do individually.
(19:12):
Yeah, I do a lot better when Iget support to take care of
myself, and that's one of ourcommon threads that I think.
When we talk, I go oh, this isone of the messages that I'm
also getting from what we sharetoday.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah.
For me, community is a big partof taking care of myself, which
sounds kind of paradoxical.
I'm taking care of myself,which sounds kind of paradoxical
.
I'm taking care of myself bybeing involved in the community.
But I used to write, I used tojournal, write a lot, which
really helped.
But at the same time, incomparison, I think I wasn't a
good witness to my own situationby myself.
(19:53):
But, like when I'm stayingconnected with other people,
it's like a memory that I'vecreated because I'm, we're
forgetful people.
So the more I interact withpeople, the more identity that
I'm creating for myself.
So because what gets us goingis the meaning and the purpose,
because I went through lots ofdifficulty, lots of difficulties
(20:14):
going on family situation, mycountry military coup, losing
some friends.
When that happened I was likewhy am I alive?
And then that can create areally deep depression that wait
, what am I doing here?
I don't live in my country, I'mliving here, my family's here,
I have children.
What do I do?
But then when that happens,when you connect with the person
(20:36):
, the people you've been stayingin touch with, you get a
reminder of wait, there's apurpose for my living.
For me, that really is the keyof taking care of myself, where,
okay, my purpose is to show up,help others keep getting better
.
And then the good thing aboutrecovery community is that, even
if I cannot do anything, mypurpose is to stay sober.
(20:57):
That becomes like a really goodbuilding blocks for greater
things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And sometimes we just suffer in silence.
And part of another message andthanks for being transparent
about that is how do we takecare of our loved ones, how do
we check on friends and family?
And sometimes all people needis whether it's a shoulder to to
(21:23):
physically or metaphoricallycry on.
But you know, if that's a hugechapter in your life of change
and sadness and low mood andexistential understanding
understandable existentialismlike what, why, what is this all
about?
And just being present withsomeone and checking in on loved
(21:45):
ones is just huge for it.
Treating mental, mental healthreally is, really is it's a one.
I think that also feeds intotalking about it.
I can only imagine in thatchapter in your life you felt
(22:06):
isolated, but did you stayisolated with your own thoughts
and emotions during that time?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Not really.
No, I have conditions set upthat didn't allow me to stay
isolated.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
People kept reaching out.
I still have vocabularies forhow I was feeling, you know, and
, uh, there were routines, uh,meditation practice.
Like you know, mood followsaction is what I've learned from
that experience.
I just gotta keep doing it,even if I'm not feeling it.
So it was very helpful.
I did not feel isolated at all.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very involvedin the 12-step fellowship.
(22:45):
So I learned a lot from thatfellowship, which is universal
principles, from my Buddhistbackground too.
It's really about, yeah, likekind of keeping my selfishness
at bay, and the best way to dothat is to be helpful to others,
you know.
So for me, that really got megoing, because the more I talked
(23:08):
about it, the more I wasrelatable.
Other people relate to it and Ifelt more human.
You know, I felt more connectedto other people by being real.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So the more we talk about it, the more we normalize
it, the less we aren't justaware of it, but we can lead to
action and change.
You know, if you go to a doctorand you're having some pain,
what do they ask you every time?
How's your pain?
Your pain level is verysubjective and personable, no
(23:41):
one can deny that.
But there's a reason why adoctor says well, what is your
pain level?
How intense is that emotion?
Is that physical, mental,emotional feeling?
We're doing it with this organ.
What's going on?
The more we talk about it, themore we normalize it and we can
(24:03):
do something about it.
We can be aware of it, acceptit and lead to action and change
.
I think that's another thingthat's really important.
I do this for a living.
So when people have a strugglewith the organ of the brain
which affects how we think, howwe feel, how we act and react
(24:27):
which is one of the reasons whythere's a stigma and prejudice
and discrimination, because it'snot that you've got a pain in
your body it can lead tothoughts and emotions and
reactions which can affect otherpeople and they don't like that
, but people don't innately.
(24:48):
There's no training manual to gookay.
What kind of help do I need?
How can I get help for this?
Who do I trust?
What are my next steps?
Whether it's therapy, whetherit's an inpatient and outpatient
, whether it's medication,whether it's other treatment
modalities, there's a lot of thenext now.
(25:10):
In the next 20 years, there'sgoing to be a lot of different
modalities physiological,chemical and machinery, even to
help with mental illnesses.
So I'm going to encouragepeople to explore different
mental health treatments.
You're not an expert, soexplore.
(25:32):
Google search five differenttherapy styles for depression or
whatever you're going through,whether it's anxiety, whether
it's panic, whether it's voices,whether it's grief of being
married to someone that's anarcissist you name it.
Google search five differenttreatments for it.
(25:54):
Turn on a podcast.
There's a lot of wonderfulmental health therapy podcasts.
We touch upon that here Atherapist, a Buddhist and you.
There's the Happiness Lab, theMental Illness Happy Hour.
There's a podcast calledTerrible.
Thanks for Asking.
Therapy for black girls.
(26:15):
Right, that's important to go.
How do I relate to my issues,my depression, my anxiety, my
cultural things that areaffecting me?
There's Therapy Chat by LauraReagan, who's a wonderful local
therapist, who's been doing itfor years and she has a
wonderful podcast and a lot ofit's geared towards trauma.
(26:37):
There's YouTube videos, justexplore.
We have so many options that wecan begin to learn and begin to
feel understood in some ways.
Like I said, I didn't realize Iwas feeling depression.
What is going on here?
I process it with my therapistand my spouse.
(26:58):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I was feeling depression.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
What is going on here ?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I process it with my therapist and my spouse and oh,
oh boy.
You know, yeah, I'm still stuckon that thing about the delay.
You know from, yeah, that 11years.
Because in hindsight and I wantthis message across too that
these are challenges but thenalso like kind of blessings in
disguise too.
You know, because I've heard somany success stories where
(27:23):
almost like to the point of likethe chosen ones, where you have
these struggles, the earlieryou treat it, it's almost like a
superpower where you get totreat it and then get stronger
on the other side, other side,and that you're not only an
example but like can be usefulto other people if it's treated.
Because you know life isproblematic.
(27:43):
That's my buddhist belief,that's the first noble truth.
But then what coping skill am Icoming up with?
Like real solid coping skilland once I use that, like all
these challenges are dealt withand then they stay with you, the
coping skills, and then theybecome even stronger over the
years.
You know, so like, if only Icould treat everything that I
was suffering at the age of 14or earlier.
(28:06):
The earlier it is treated, thebetter, or the earlier it is
talked about, the better,because it gives you more
strength Very paradoxical.
You get strength by admittingyour weakness in a way you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, a collective solution to health and wellness,
not just treating a symptom butpotentially underlining causes
and conditions.
And what I mean by that is,yeah, a person is their thoughts
, their emotions, their feelings, their brain chemistry, and the
human is the most complexpuzzle that I can think of,
(28:43):
which is just phenomenal andscary and frightening and makes
mental health that much morechallenging.
But because we know that, Ithink that's one of the reasons
that we often see things from anEastern philosophy as opposed
to just a Western.
(29:03):
Here's a problem, here's asymptom, get rid of this symptom
but not really always see theunderlining causes and
conditions.
And that's kind of the approachthat we take on this podcast
and that the guests we bring onfrom the still-ate ganglion
block and the fight-or-flightresponse in people with trauma
(29:24):
and being able to stop thatresponse.
People can often do better withtheir trauma response and their
fight-or-flight response andchanges the neural pathways of
the brain.
Cool episode, check it out onSGB for trauma.
But that's part of what I hopemoving forward, what really
(29:45):
policies and procedures and whatwe understand the brain to be
and I say a version of this alot.
When it comes to a healthcondition, the brain comes with
the biggest stigma.
If you look at any other organ,like we said, the pancreas
(30:07):
stops producing insulin, peopledon't judge you and say you're
broken.
No, if your heart has to workharder and increases blood
pressure and is the precursor tofive blocked arteries in your
heart and you need a quintuplebypass surgery, they're not
going to say that you don'tdeserve the surgery.
Now I would also like for us toempower and going okay, get the
(30:33):
surgery, get the treatment, getthe insulin, but let's also,
whenever we begin to see thesesigns and symptoms, let's treat
the whole person.
And the stress, the environment, the nutrition, the physical,
the mental, the emotional thewhole part of the person can
(30:55):
directly or indirectly affectsomeone's mental health and
well-being.
And sometimes, with some of myclients that are very
(31:15):
anti-medication the physical,the things that they have
control over with the thoughtstopping, and the emotional and
coping strategies, and physicalhealth and emotional health and
they realize, man, there's stillthis chemical thing that I felt
like I controlled the thingsthat I could control and I'm
still struggling with dark,intrusive thoughts or this
(31:39):
depression that won't change.
And then they decide tointroduce a medication then, or
micro dosing or things that arenew in the past five, 10, 15
years and they go wow, I canfinally X, my brain can finally
exhale, or I don't have thesedark, deep, intrusive thoughts,
(32:04):
or I don't have this suicidalthoughts anymore, or, for the
first time since I was a littlegirl, I feel good about my
decisions and I feel like I canhave a conversation.
So it's looking at the whole ofthe person and sometimes it is
the brain chemistry that theydon't have enough serotonin or
(32:30):
dopamine, or a trauma responsehas adversely affected, or a
traumatic brain injury hasadversely affected someone's
ability to think, feel and actin a way that they used to and
they need help with.
There was a lot there, a littlebit of a rant, but what do you
think?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, I hope this podcast is helpful, because one
thing that comes to mind inconclusion is, uh, pretty much
the underlying thought that Iwant to cultivate which is
always true, and that I wanteverybody else to cultivate is
that, no matter who you are like, everybody is worthy of
(33:07):
happiness.
Everybody deserves, uh, a lifeof peace and happiness, you know
, and it is possible.
So, uh, but, like, that hopecan make a huge difference
because it's just an attitude.
You know, life sucks, thingsare difficult, but I know I
deserve to be happy.
You know, as soon as I am ableto switch my attitude to that,
(33:27):
like, what I do throughout theday is completely different from
like, oh, I'm just a victim,you know this, and that I'm just
going to sit and not doanything, you know, as opposed
to wait, I deserve to be happy.
So what can I do?
Go out, take a walk, make somecoffee, talk to a friend, you
know.
Make some healthy food, read,you know, play some music, you
(33:48):
know, whatever it is Like, youjust start doing things because
you believe that you are worthyof happiness and you start
making things happen.
So I really want to send amessage across about the fact
that, not only that you deserveto be happy, but, like that's
the underlying innate nature foreverybody, everybody's looking
for that same thing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And you know, zal, I've had more than a handful of
clients that brain chemistrythat's off, or the rewiring the
neural pathways, the physical,mental, emotional, spiritual
peace and and all of a suddenthey have that senseful it's
(34:34):
like.
And one individual I'm thinkingof said is this what normal
people feel all the time?
This is and this is bullshit.
If I felt this 30 of the time,I'd feel like I'd be a
functioning member of society.
I think one of my messages is Idon't want anyone to have to
(34:58):
suffer for that long movingforward.
And there's still so much,unfortunately, we don't know
about the brain and we'refinding out.
Now.
We're in the infantile stage,but just now there's been some
incredible findings with thebrain and what can help change
that chemistry in ways thatserotonin and SSRIs weren't
(35:22):
doing for some people and thephysical things that we are very
proponents of.
That you do have the power tochange these things for a large
percentage of people in theirmental health.
And if you're losing hope,reach out to someone.
There are other potentialsolutions.
(35:43):
And I think part of thefrustrating piece is and we see
this with substance use we don'twant to suffer, and the
continuous suffering can bereally challenging, so seek out
for help.
Seek out for help.
We'll provide a lot of servicesand the episode notes, and I
(36:06):
think this is why we have tohighlight that we don't want
anyone to suffer for 11 yearsbefore they seek treatment.
And eventually, one thing thatwe didn't provide statistics for
is how long does it take forthese symptoms to go away?
Well, you and I and the workthat we do here at the Recovery
Collective- we're very fortunate.
(36:26):
I think part of it because ofour philosophy is that we get to
see people, a lot of theirsymptoms go dormant or go away
and then they have a proactiveapproach for their whatever
their version of recovery is andtheir mental health and their
behavioral health is movingforward yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, thank you for bringing this topic up.
We can probably revisit itagain, because this is the main
thing that we do.
Yeah, mental health for me ishappiness, meaning you know
values in alignment with who Iam.
That's yeah, so I'm glad we didthis episode.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Thank you all for listening and, as we close
today's episode, we want toextend our deepest gratitude to
each and every one of you forjoining us in this really
important conversation aboutmental health.
Remember your mental healthmatters and it's okay to seek
support when you need it or whenyou want it.
I encourage you to share thisepisode with your friends,
(37:29):
family and community to helpspread awareness and support for
mental health.
Together, we can break thebarriers and create a world
where everyone feels safe,supported, understood and help
with our symptoms.
If you or someone you know isstruggling, please don't
hesitate to reach out for help.
There are resources availableand you're not alone.
Take care of yourselves andremember that there is always
(37:52):
hope and help available.
Thank you for listening andplease share with others Until
next time.
My name is Luke and this is Zal.
Take care, thank you.
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