June 19, 2023 • 30 mins
Can you imagine a world where everyone practices Metta, cultivating unconditional love, kindness, and goodwill towards themselves and others? Join us on this enlightening journey with Zaw Maw, a Buddhist practitioner, as we dive deep into the concept of Metta and its profound impact on our lives. From its roots in Pali and Burmese languages to its powerful effect on shifting our focus from negativity to love, Zaw guides us through Metta's mental, physical, and verbal aspects, sharing a traditional sutra for our practice.
As we explore Buddhist cosmology and its connection to loving kindness, we uncover the discipline and structure required in our practice, reminding ourselves that Metta is not a replacement for difficulty. Learn how to teach our children simple phrases to start their day and discover the emotional connection and visualization involved in cultivating compassion for ourselves and others. By the end of this episode, you'll feel that contagious loving energy, equipping you with the tools to improve your health and wellness through the power of Metta. So, tune in, and let's spread love and kindness together!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to A Therapist, myself a Buddhist,
zalmang, and you, the listener.
This evening, brought to you bythe Recovery Collective in
Annapolis, Maryland, it is apodcast where we embark on a
journey of self-discovery andcollective growth.
I'm your co-host, luke DeBoy,and joining me on this
enlightening adventure is myco-host, a Sultan of Serenity.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Wow, you just came up with these things.
I'm trying, you caught me bysurprise.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm trying As usual a wise and compassionate Buddhist
practitioner.
We will explore theintersections of psychology,
spirituality, health andwellness, offering practical
insights along the way.
Thanks for tuning in andjoining our community.
Please communicate with us andthe other listeners on Facebook,
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Feel free to check out thelinks in our episode notes If
(00:56):
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(01:18):
Remember it's through ourcollective efforts that we can
uncover solutions to all thingsrelated to health and wellness.
So for this episode's all,let's explore the concept of
meta as the practice ofcultivating unconditional love,
goodwill and kindness towardsoneself and others.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That sounds good Yeah .
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Meta, not that Facebook thing M-E-T-A, but the
M-E-T-T-A meta version.
That's what we're interested in.
What does it mean?
What is the root word of metafrom your understanding, Zou?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it is a Bali word which has also become a
Burmese word.
in our Burmese culture Thepronunciation in Burmese is mita
, which usually is translated asloving kindness in the Western
world.
But the original meaning prettymuch is friendliness, or meta
(02:19):
has to do with, i guess it comesfrom the word matria or matri
along those lines.
I don't know the exactlinguistic technicalities of it,
but it is around this realm offriendliness, goodwill, like you
said.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This is a Bali word, bali word.
What are the core principles,are the intentions behind this
word?
is it an action, is it a doing?
Often, i think as Westernerswere first introduced to the
word or the intention or theaction during a vipassana or
yoga session.
(02:56):
Give us a skinny on meta.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, i can share my experience and also I can share
how I practice it today.
I think that will be quitepractical And I don't know if
it's limited to a Buddhist worldor maybe just things in general
.
There are three kinds ofactions that we can take in this
worldly stage.
One is mental, which is throughthoughts.
(03:19):
Another is physical, throughactions, and the third one is
verbal, through words or throughwriting.
So meta can be practicedthrough those three means as
well And depending on because inthe Buddhist tradition it's not
really about what is, but it'sabout the intention behind it.
So you can have a very powerfulmental thought of meta and can
(03:41):
have a really positive effect onyour well-being.
But yeah, i mean, it all comesdown to that idea of everybody
is suffering.
So meta pretty much is thewording in terms of the verbal
practices May you be happy, mayyou be free from danger, may you
be free from any kind ofphysical suffering.
So it's also like a protectionfor yourself and for other
(04:05):
people as well.
The power of meta is that whenyou are in tune with that power
of kindness, you are protected,because that's what we need.
There is visible dangers.
There's also invisible dangersas well around us anytime.
Visible dangers can be likefire, accidents, fall slip,
sickness, all these things.
But the invisible dangers canbe like worries, like mental
(04:29):
dangers, grief, depression,sadness.
So infusing with lovingkindness is always a protection
against those dangers, andthat's how I was taught.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Let's break down those three categories, starting
with the mental grouping ofmeta.
The opposite of loving kindnessmentally can be stress, anxiety
, worry, concern related to metain terms of the mental category
.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So mental part is a little difficult because it
requires some meditative state.
But the way I was taught thiswas taught in Burmese high
school so it was easy for mebecause before we start classes
in the morning we had to chantand then part of the chant.
there's also this thing calledmeta sutra, which is a discourse
(05:17):
to live out by the Buddha.
traditionally It's like a twoand a half minutes sutra And
there's some wording from thesutra that were extracted out in
a Burmese translation and wehad to recite that.
I don't know there's somethingabout the words and the
verbalizing it, because thething from the sutra, if I'm
recalling and translating it,it's along the lines of may all
(05:39):
beings be happy.
may all beings, whether theycan be seen, they can be unseen,
they can be far, they can beclose, they can be big, they can
be round, they can be small.
There are just different kindsof categories of living beings.
May they all be happy, freefrom danger, free from anger.
That was a good start.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So that's one way, mentally, i guess, to shift your
focus when practicing mettaWith that example you gave in
the English translationconsciously shifting their focus
from negative or stressfulthoughts to positive intentions
of love and kindness, and that'sa mental way of looking at
(06:20):
metta.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, Yeah.
And then there's somethingtraditionally something about
the repetition.
It's also what is good aboutthe verbal recitation The more
you do it, it's the same thingover and over again, but the
intention behind that getsuncovered.
And it's also that discipline,the consistency that you do it
over and over again, And thenthe mental part overflows And
(06:42):
then physical also is overflow.
Once your mind is infused withloving kindness, you're just
kind throughout the day.
You just want to help people.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Said it before, where our intention goes, the energy
flows.
Yeah, so if you put that loveand kindness towards a thought
and an intention that can have apositive effect on your mental
well-being, if I focus on fearand negativity and worry and
resentment, well, guess what,i'm having a bad day.
Anything else with mental.
(07:13):
when it comes to metta Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I mean our minds are more prone to negative things,
especially untrained mind.
It's reactionary or moreattracted to resentment or
worries or hatred, differentkinds of mood, so it's kind of
like against the nature.
So that's why the disciplineand the practice is quite
(07:39):
important.
And then, traditionally what Iwas also taught was that and
this is also what I do withclients and the groups as well
that after a meditation practiceI usually conclude the session
with a loving kindnessmeditation, because by the end
of the session we've meditatedand we're in a calm state of
mind, which is not somethingthat we can have access to quite
(08:02):
easily.
So once we get there, let's usethis opportunity to radiate
loving kindness.
And it becomes more and that'sbeen my experience, and I think
that can be the listener'sexperience too that it's hard to
overcome a hatred thought witha loving thought.
in my own mind.
It can be quite difficult.
(08:22):
So I have to train my mindfirst.
only then I have the capabilityto replace a resentful thought
with a loving thought.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, these are some of the thought processes in
terms of therapy and ways tocultivate positive emotions,
whether it's gratitude lists,whether it's positive
affirmations.
cognitive behavioral therapy,identifying a more positive,
alternative based thought, canhelp cultivate this positivity.
I suppose the negativity, Yeah,it's good.
(08:52):
Okay, Yeah, I mean.
and then we're talking aboutself-compassion.
If I can give this lovingkindness to other people, meta
also focuses on ourself too whenit comes to loving kindness,
correct, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah.
And then the thing about themental, physical and verbal.
we're all interconnected.
in some groups people talkabout which I agree that mood
follows actions, right.
So sometimes I got to startfrom the action And that's been
my experience with sobriety toothat when I say may I be happy
in the beginning of the day, iwould set the intention, but
(09:30):
then the fact that I'm notdrinking and not using drugs,
that's an act of self-compassionthat I thought they were making
me happy, but I actually knowit was a dead end.
So the physical action,self-compassion can be as simple
, it can come with a thought, orit can come with a verbal
thought that may I be happy,which also means that what
(09:50):
action can I take today thatwill bring happiness to me, not
in like a selfish way, but justwhat are the kind self-care
things that I can do?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That can reduce stress, that can reduce cortisol
levels.
By doing that, so physical interms of the actual behavior, in
terms of the actions you do tocreate that love and kindness
but it also sounds the way I'mtaking it is physically your
(10:21):
body can be affected by a loveand kindness as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, there are also some visualization methods that
can be helpful as well, becausemeta has to do with the heart.
So like physically,location-wise, when you breathe
in and out of that heart, it'slike a feeling center.
So some visualization can behelpful, that you breathe in and
out of that heart center wherethere are emotions, and you can
(10:47):
infuse your heart with positivethoughts which is what we want
for everybody, like safety,health, well-being.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You just saying that connected to my heart and my
hope is there's at least ahandful of listeners that also
felt that, as you shared thatThat's physical, that's a
transfer of emotions in a loveand kindness, healthy kind of
way.
Well, i felt it.
Maybe the listeners did tooPhysical anything else when it
(11:19):
comes to that category.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, an act of kindness, which is there's no
shortage of that right, but inour tradition it can be,
especially when you're living ata monastery a meta act will be
sweeping the floor withoutletting anybody know or taking
the trash out.
These are all good, will actwithout any kind of expectations
, but the universe usuallycompensate or return multiple to
(11:46):
an act of kindness.
And again, it's more about theintention behind that, because
there are also some actions thatyou take for self-appraisal
that, oh yeah, look at me, i amdoing this kind thing.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I think of it physically in terms of enhancing
relationships, and what I meanby that.
When we cultivate these loveand kindness towards others, it
fosters loving relationships, itimproves interactions,
communication, understanding,promote forgiveness, reducing
conflicts, empathy andcompassion.
(12:21):
To me, that's physical.
That's a physical reaction thatwe can get from relationships.
Something as simple as sweepinga floor or opening a door can
have a physical, positive effect.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, it's all energy , you know, and I can be
vibrating at a negative energyand people can sense it, and the
opposite is true too.
But yeah, there's somethingvery helpful about the community
too.
So if we live in a community orif I have access to a community
that is spiritual, that's like aeasy access to practice loving
(12:58):
kindness.
But I do want to share aboutthe practice of loving kindness
in a way of something that weare capable of, but also
something that we don't have totry too hard to get there in a
way, so it's not like somebodyhas to teach me in detail how to
(13:20):
practice loving kindness.
It's something that is alreadyfamiliar to us.
So that's where that repetitioncomes in, because there are
also some visualizationexercises where you just have to
recall where an active kindnesswas done to you in your life,
and there is no shortage of that.
(13:40):
If I reflect on my ownexperience, there are teachers,
people who help me, who werejust like a very ideal act of
goodwill, and then I can haveaccess to it And we have that
memory.
So it's more like imitatingthat, reflecting that and then
doing that Which is not like outof reach, although it seems
that way when I'm in a veryresentful, worrisome, fear
(14:02):
driven place.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Have you ever seen the Grinch who's still Christmas
?
Yes, and he's always.
He's hard-end he's.
But then he saw this act oflove and kindness and then his
heart got bigger.
Yeah, that's an example ofgiving love and he stole all the
gifts He grew in Christmas, butthen this community still gave
(14:28):
him love and kindness And thenhis heart was just couldn't
avoid the love and kindness Andhe went from that negative
Grinch to this this.
Well, there's purity or it'smeta, it's love and kindness.
Yeah, are there any examples?
Like you said, it's a thought,it can be an a past experience
(14:51):
where you felt this, any othertechniques where someone can
incorporate this meta into theireveryday life?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, the first, most simple basic entry is through
verbal recitation, you know, Andthat's the one we're on.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, because you know, like it's just words
sounds, but it's not about thesounds or the words, but it's
about the intention, connectingwith the energy behind those
words.
So it's a simple phrase as likemay I be happy, like if I really
connect with the true intentionbehind that word, or may you be
happy, i can look into youreyes, look and then I can really
(15:33):
mean it and say it may you behappy, and you can sense it at
the heart and mind level.
So, yeah, that would be a goodplace to start.
And then there's also somethingthat is helpful, which is that
it's hard to like talk about it,because there's that concept of
self-compassion, which is great, which is different from
(15:56):
selfishness, right, because metaloving kindness has to do with
selflessness.
So, like when I say may I behappy, which is effective
wording, but more effectivewording is may I learn how to be
truly happy, or may I truly behappy or may I find true
happiness, and by true for meand my experience, that when I
(16:19):
say, may I be happy, i want todrink because I know that will
make me happy, i want to usethis drug because that will make
me happy, which is a very bigdifference between may I truly
be happy or may I learn how tobe truly happy, which will mean,
yeah, actually I'm going to besober and go help somebody, or
go help somebody or somethingyou know.
So there's a self-compassionaspect where we're looking for
(16:43):
the skillful action, not like aselfish that I need this instant
gratification to be happy.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So it's not ill intent, it's true.
I think that's the bestdescriptor True happiness.
I always call drugs and alcoholYeah, it's a high, it's a
happiness, but it's a numbinghigh.
It's a false sense of happinessand love or connection.
In terms of self-compassion, itcan be challenging, you know,
(17:16):
such as dealing with difficultemotions, self-judgment or
resistance towards certainindividuals.
What are your recommendationswith that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, probably a concept that people are already
familiar with, but I think it isworth emphasizing and repeating
.
Which is also part of lovingkindness Is that loving kindness
cannot come as a replacement tothe difficulty.
The first step is to acceptwhere I'm at.
So if I am suffering, if I'm ina very terrible place, i cannot
(17:48):
be like me.
I'd be happy, i skip everythingand then truly be happy.
But the first step is righthere, in this moment, i'm
suffering and that's okay.
I need to see it as it is, andthen everybody else go through
this.
I'm not alone.
And then that open store.
That's also what I was trying tosay earlier about the
simplicity and the familiarityof this.
(18:09):
I don't need to.
That's also the wording of whenI say me I be happy is not like
I am happy right now, which isnot true.
It's an intention being set.
But before that, there has tobe a point where I see things as
they are, a set.
And it can be true with whenyou're trying to be helpful to a
friend too, like when somebodylost a friend and he's grieving
(18:33):
and I'm having a conversationwith him and I cannot be like,
forget about it, you should behappy, but no, i feel you, i can
sense your grief, and then thatbecomes like a first step to
accept the situation.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
First, Yeah, I'm just absorbing that with all you
guys as well.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
But I do have some structure by just based on my
tradition, which has yeah, idon't want to go deep, too deep
into it, but it has to do with,like Buddhist cosmology and
everything, but for me it iseffective.
But it's more about thediscipline and then the
structure and the repetition ofthe phrases And that's how I was
(19:16):
taught, which is quitetechnical, but that's how I
practice it on a regular basis,and then I recite that metta
sutra And but yeah, i mean forthe listeners, those simple
instructions, starting the dayout with you know me, i've been
also teaching my kids as well,which kind of warms my heart.
(19:38):
There's some like Bali wordsthat I say they're simple to
them And they're kind of like Idon't know if it's just a phase
for them, but they're superexcited about that, like they
know the words already.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Hey it's energy man.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
And then by the end of it Iteach them those simple wording
in English of like may I behappy, may I be safe, may I be
free from danger.
And then my daughter, bysurprise the other day she said
she added one thing that I nevertaught.
She said may I be loved.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I was like yeah, that's, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
She knows what it's all about.
It's within us all.
Yeah, you spiked my interestwhen you said Buddhist cosmology
.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Buddhist cosmology Yeah, buddhist universe.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Give us that might be another episode in there.
Oh yeah, give us a little bitfor this one.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So there are 32 planes of existence in Buddhist
cosmology And then I think we'realso having a conversation
about this before this podcasttoo that like there's a kapas,
which is like eons and timestuff like that.
But what is helpful with theBuddhist cosmology when it comes
to loving kindness is thatwe're in this human realm, but
(20:50):
there are specific prayers thatwe always thought is that
radiating loving kindness indifferent directions, like East,
south, northwest, above, belowBut with the 32 planes of
existence is that they arehigher planes where they're more
like celestial being, but itdoesn't mean they don't suffer.
They also suffer.
(21:10):
They're in this cycle ofsuffering, samsara, but then
they're also like hell realm.
So like it opens so many newdoors where you start radiating
loving kindness not only to thevisible world but like all
beings that can or cannot beseen either celestial or hell
realm, it doesn't matter, youknow so it's.
It's more of like an infinitepossibilities of radiating
(21:32):
loving kindness.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
That's meta in a whole different way.
Meta in a macro way, which willgive us another episode in the
future, for sure.
But when it comes to this loveand kindness meta, some of my
takeaways, when it comes to someof the key aspects to that meta
is an intention, it's apractice.
(21:56):
There's mindfulness.
It plays a crucial role, beingmindful of being fully present
and aware of it.
That jumps out at me.
There's certain loving kindnessphrases.
It involves recitingpotentially specific phrases or
affirmations that can expresswell wishes for oneself or
(22:16):
others.
And what I'm getting from thisepisode that I really didn't
know or take away from previous,the visualization that can come
with it.
Can you give us another example?
Because I think that's that'sthe soul of this.
That's my takeaway thevisualization when it comes to a
loving kindness practice.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, that's really good.
We're, we're all vibrationalright.
So, like when it comes to theeffect, being produced by meta
is personal, but it's alsogeneral too.
But the way I think about it islike a calming, like really
soothing, cool water, and it's afeeling.
(22:57):
So when somebody is radiatingthat, you can sense it, and when
you're radiating it to otherpeople can sense it.
So it's more like a It's anattraction.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's to me in my words, what If I were to, in my
words, what you're saying?
it's an emotional connectionand it's cultivating a sense of
compassion for myself and others, and it's an energetic feel
that I think can be contagious.
like your daughter said love,she added it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, yeah, there's something very purifying about
that.
You know, it's not made up,it's not something that is
created, it's something that isuncovered and it's authentic.
So that's why it's so universal.
And yeah, i mean, like you said, it's also part of the
mindfulness practice too.
Right, you can go to areligious ground or you can
(23:52):
enter somebody's house and youcan just sense that peacefulness
.
You know it's very visceral.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
There's a physiological, like you said,
visceral thing that happens whenyou visualize it.
When it's happening, it doessomething different to the brain
, which does something differentto the physical and the
emotional and the verbal.
When we visualize it, whilewe're thinking it and feeling it
(24:21):
, it changes our brain chemistry, it changes the energy.
When we do it that way, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And then you know words and visualization can be
connected too.
One of the things that can behelpful is the wording of.
you know, there are somemeditation instructions where
you pay attention to the breath,and then there's the wording of
like softening or relaxing thejaw, the shoulders, your belly.
(24:48):
You know when you do that it'sa word but like it has that
visual effect too When youimagine relaxing your jaw you
know, when you imagine softeningyour belly and then when you
also imagine softening yourheart.
You know these are just wordsbut like they can have a very
powerful visual effect to it andthat loving kindness become
(25:10):
more accessible when you usethose descriptions to your heart
.
And then you can think aboutradiating or sending out love,
you know, which is like energy,a race of energy that you send
out.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, I've loved this conversation.
Anything else you want to sharewith our listeners before we
have our final?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
remarks.
Yeah, so the one practice whichI think is universal is the
directional meta radiating.
So, like I say, it is universalbecause we live in this
atmosphere.
Right, there's air we cannotsee, but it's everywhere.
(25:53):
We're surrounded by it.
Meta is like that too.
So there are some meditationpractices where I do, where I
start imagining, like all in theeast direction, all the way
across, may all beings in thisdirection, may they be happy,
healthy, free from danger, freefrom anger, and then it just
works, but like I can physicallysend out and receive, so that
(26:16):
can be a good practice forpeople who want to try it.
So like, just systematically,may all beings in this direction
.
So like northeast, or whenyou're sitting you can be in the
front, in the back, to the left, to the right, to the right
front or whatever you know, in10 directions.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think one way you've shared with me when we've
done you've done your groupmeditations is everyone in this
room and then everyone in thisbuilding and everyone on this
road, everyone in this town,everyone in this, and that
helped me just feel it expandoutwards and more vast and large
(26:54):
, guided me with thatdirectional feeling towards the
area.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, i think anything is perpetual.
So I do wanna give listeners achallenge or a practice where
begin your day with lovingkindness and then see where it
takes you.
And it can be a positivefeedback loop because, yeah,
there's something that isundeniably there when things
(27:23):
become experiential.
So for me, yeah, i connect withpeople at a deeper level when I
am coming from a place ofloving kindness And people sense
it too right, because when Ihave a resentment or separation,
it comes from that.
Oh, that person is different,that person doesn't know how I'm
(27:45):
suffering as if we aredifferent, but we're not.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, i've heard someone say that the first five
people in their day, when theyleave their house, they're just
gonna give a pass too, no matterwhat they do, tongue in cheek.
But you know what I mean.
But I like your example thatmuch more.
Let's say there's first fivepeople that you see, why don't
you give them that lovingkindness and that meta, not just
(28:11):
give them a pass, but give themthat visceral energy of loving,
kindness and compassion?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, i think that will be a good note to end on,
but I do also do wannadifferentiate one final thought
of like passionate love withattachment, because attachment
is not a good thing, likecraving, which is a different
kind of love, which is not whatwe're talking about.
But this is like a platonicloving kindness, in a way of
like I want nothing in return,because there's an idea of love
(28:40):
in terms of possessiveness.
I love this person, i want thisperson to be this way, that way
, yeah.
So I wanna differentiate thattoo, because I don't know if
it's a translation when you sayloving kindness, which is
different from like passionatelove or sexual love or romantic
love, yeah, the unconditionallove, the non-expectations that
we as humans often connect There.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Either love is or isn't right.
We put conditions on loveanyway.
Yeah, yeah.
I hope this was helpful.
Yeah, i mean.
At its core, meta involvesgenerating sincere well wishes
and positive intentions for allwell-beings, happiness and
safety of oneself and others.
It is a transformative practicethat aims to dissolve barriers
of separation, ego-drivendesires like we just said and
(29:26):
harmful attitudes, fostering adeep sense of connection,
empathy and understanding.
Meta is not limited to personalrelationships, where those who
are easy to love, but includeall beings, regardless of their
background, social status oreven perceived enemies.
The practice encouragespractitioners to develop a
boundless, all-embracing lovethat transcends boundaries,
(29:48):
biases and prejudices.
By regularly engaging in metameditation and integrating
loving kindness into daily life,individuals can cultivate a
compassionate heart, reducenegative emotions, enhance
emotional well-being and fosterharmonious relationships.
Ultimately, the practice ofmeta aims to create a more
(30:10):
compassionate and caring society, promoting peace, understanding
and genuine happiness for allbeings.
Beautiful.
Yeah Well, thanks, zal, this wasfun.
I feel the loving kindness inthis room it's buzzing.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Nice.
Yeah, I don't know where it'scoming from.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
It must be you, the listeners.
So thanks for giving it backAnd if you guys liked this
episode, please like, comment,subscribe and, most importantly,
share with others, ascollectively We can find a
solution to all things healthand wellness.
My name's Luke DeBoi.
This is Zal.
See you next time.
See ya.
Welcome to A Therapist, myself a Buddhist,
zalmang, and you, the listener.
This evening, brought to you bythe Recovery Collective in
Annapolis, Maryland, it is apodcast where we embark on a
journey of self-discovery andcollective growth.
I'm your co-host, luke DeBoy,and joining me on this
enlightening adventure is myco-host, a Sultan of Serenity.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Wow, you just came up with these things.
I'm trying, you caught me bysurprise.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm trying As usual a wise and compassionate Buddhist
practitioner.
We will explore theintersections of psychology,
spirituality, health andwellness, offering practical
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Thanks for tuning in andjoining our community.
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Feel free to check out thelinks in our episode notes If
(00:56):
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(01:18):
Remember it's through ourcollective efforts that we can
uncover solutions to all thingsrelated to health and wellness.
So for this episode's all,let's explore the concept of
meta as the practice ofcultivating unconditional love,
goodwill and kindness towardsoneself and others.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That sounds good Yeah .
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Meta, not that Facebook thing M-E-T-A, but the
M-E-T-T-A meta version.
That's what we're interested in.
What does it mean?
What is the root word of metafrom your understanding, Zou?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it is a Bali word which has also become a
Burmese word.
in our Burmese culture Thepronunciation in Burmese is mita
, which usually is translated asloving kindness in the Western
world.
But the original meaning prettymuch is friendliness, or meta
(02:19):
has to do with, i guess it comesfrom the word matria or matri
along those lines.
I don't know the exactlinguistic technicalities of it,
but it is around this realm offriendliness, goodwill, like you
said.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This is a Bali word, bali word.
What are the core principles,are the intentions behind this
word?
is it an action, is it a doing?
Often, i think as Westernerswere first introduced to the
word or the intention or theaction during a vipassana or
yoga session.
(02:56):
Give us a skinny on meta.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, i can share my experience and also I can share
how I practice it today.
I think that will be quitepractical And I don't know if
it's limited to a Buddhist worldor maybe just things in general
.
There are three kinds ofactions that we can take in this
worldly stage.
One is mental, which is throughthoughts.
(03:19):
Another is physical, throughactions, and the third one is
verbal, through words or throughwriting.
So meta can be practicedthrough those three means as
well And depending on because inthe Buddhist tradition it's not
really about what is, but it'sabout the intention behind it.
So you can have a very powerfulmental thought of meta and can
(03:41):
have a really positive effect onyour well-being.
But yeah, i mean, it all comesdown to that idea of everybody
is suffering.
So meta pretty much is thewording in terms of the verbal
practices May you be happy, mayyou be free from danger, may you
be free from any kind ofphysical suffering.
So it's also like a protectionfor yourself and for other
(04:05):
people as well.
The power of meta is that whenyou are in tune with that power
of kindness, you are protected,because that's what we need.
There is visible dangers.
There's also invisible dangersas well around us anytime.
Visible dangers can be likefire, accidents, fall slip,
sickness, all these things.
But the invisible dangers canbe like worries, like mental
(04:29):
dangers, grief, depression,sadness.
So infusing with lovingkindness is always a protection
against those dangers, andthat's how I was taught.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Let's break down those three categories, starting
with the mental grouping ofmeta.
The opposite of loving kindnessmentally can be stress, anxiety
, worry, concern related to metain terms of the mental category
.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So mental part is a little difficult because it
requires some meditative state.
But the way I was taught thiswas taught in Burmese high
school so it was easy for mebecause before we start classes
in the morning we had to chantand then part of the chant.
there's also this thing calledmeta sutra, which is a discourse
(05:17):
to live out by the Buddha.
traditionally It's like a twoand a half minutes sutra And
there's some wording from thesutra that were extracted out in
a Burmese translation and wehad to recite that.
I don't know there's somethingabout the words and the
verbalizing it, because thething from the sutra, if I'm
recalling and translating it,it's along the lines of may all
(05:39):
beings be happy.
may all beings, whether theycan be seen, they can be unseen,
they can be far, they can beclose, they can be big, they can
be round, they can be small.
There are just different kindsof categories of living beings.
May they all be happy, freefrom danger, free from anger.
That was a good start.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So that's one way, mentally, i guess, to shift your
focus when practicing mettaWith that example you gave in
the English translationconsciously shifting their focus
from negative or stressfulthoughts to positive intentions
of love and kindness, and that'sa mental way of looking at
(06:20):
metta.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, Yeah.
And then there's somethingtraditionally something about
the repetition.
It's also what is good aboutthe verbal recitation The more
you do it, it's the same thingover and over again, but the
intention behind that getsuncovered.
And it's also that discipline,the consistency that you do it
over and over again, And thenthe mental part overflows And
(06:42):
then physical also is overflow.
Once your mind is infused withloving kindness, you're just
kind throughout the day.
You just want to help people.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Said it before, where our intention goes, the energy
flows.
Yeah, so if you put that loveand kindness towards a thought
and an intention that can have apositive effect on your mental
well-being, if I focus on fearand negativity and worry and
resentment, well, guess what,i'm having a bad day.
Anything else with mental.
(07:13):
when it comes to metta Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I mean our minds are more prone to negative things,
especially untrained mind.
It's reactionary or moreattracted to resentment or
worries or hatred, differentkinds of mood, so it's kind of
like against the nature.
So that's why the disciplineand the practice is quite
(07:39):
important.
And then, traditionally what Iwas also taught was that and
this is also what I do withclients and the groups as well
that after a meditation practiceI usually conclude the session
with a loving kindnessmeditation, because by the end
of the session we've meditatedand we're in a calm state of
mind, which is not somethingthat we can have access to quite
(08:02):
easily.
So once we get there, let's usethis opportunity to radiate
loving kindness.
And it becomes more and that'sbeen my experience, and I think
that can be the listener'sexperience too that it's hard to
overcome a hatred thought witha loving thought.
in my own mind.
It can be quite difficult.
(08:22):
So I have to train my mindfirst.
only then I have the capabilityto replace a resentful thought
with a loving thought.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, these are some of the thought processes in
terms of therapy and ways tocultivate positive emotions,
whether it's gratitude lists,whether it's positive
affirmations.
cognitive behavioral therapy,identifying a more positive,
alternative based thought, canhelp cultivate this positivity.
I suppose the negativity, Yeah,it's good.
(08:52):
Okay, Yeah, I mean.
and then we're talking aboutself-compassion.
If I can give this lovingkindness to other people, meta
also focuses on ourself too whenit comes to loving kindness,
correct, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah.
And then the thing about themental, physical and verbal.
we're all interconnected.
in some groups people talkabout which I agree that mood
follows actions, right.
So sometimes I got to startfrom the action And that's been
my experience with sobriety toothat when I say may I be happy
in the beginning of the day, iwould set the intention, but
(09:30):
then the fact that I'm notdrinking and not using drugs,
that's an act of self-compassionthat I thought they were making
me happy, but I actually knowit was a dead end.
So the physical action,self-compassion can be as simple
, it can come with a thought, orit can come with a verbal
thought that may I be happy,which also means that what
(09:50):
action can I take today thatwill bring happiness to me, not
in like a selfish way, but justwhat are the kind self-care
things that I can do?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That can reduce stress, that can reduce cortisol
levels.
By doing that, so physical interms of the actual behavior, in
terms of the actions you do tocreate that love and kindness
but it also sounds the way I'mtaking it is physically your
(10:21):
body can be affected by a loveand kindness as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, there are also some visualization methods that
can be helpful as well, becausemeta has to do with the heart.
So like physically,location-wise, when you breathe
in and out of that heart, it'slike a feeling center.
So some visualization can behelpful, that you breathe in and
out of that heart center wherethere are emotions, and you can
(10:47):
infuse your heart with positivethoughts which is what we want
for everybody, like safety,health, well-being.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You just saying that connected to my heart and my
hope is there's at least ahandful of listeners that also
felt that, as you shared thatThat's physical, that's a
transfer of emotions in a loveand kindness, healthy kind of
way.
Well, i felt it.
Maybe the listeners did tooPhysical anything else when it
(11:19):
comes to that category.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, an act of kindness, which is there's no
shortage of that right, but inour tradition it can be,
especially when you're living ata monastery a meta act will be
sweeping the floor withoutletting anybody know or taking
the trash out.
These are all good, will actwithout any kind of expectations
, but the universe usuallycompensate or return multiple to
(11:46):
an act of kindness.
And again, it's more about theintention behind that, because
there are also some actions thatyou take for self-appraisal
that, oh yeah, look at me, i amdoing this kind thing.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I think of it physically in terms of enhancing
relationships, and what I meanby that.
When we cultivate these loveand kindness towards others, it
fosters loving relationships, itimproves interactions,
communication, understanding,promote forgiveness, reducing
conflicts, empathy andcompassion.
(12:21):
To me, that's physical.
That's a physical reaction thatwe can get from relationships.
Something as simple as sweepinga floor or opening a door can
have a physical, positive effect.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, it's all energy , you know, and I can be
vibrating at a negative energyand people can sense it, and the
opposite is true too.
But yeah, there's somethingvery helpful about the community
too.
So if we live in a community orif I have access to a community
that is spiritual, that's like aeasy access to practice loving
(12:58):
kindness.
But I do want to share aboutthe practice of loving kindness
in a way of something that weare capable of, but also
something that we don't have totry too hard to get there in a
way, so it's not like somebodyhas to teach me in detail how to
(13:20):
practice loving kindness.
It's something that is alreadyfamiliar to us.
So that's where that repetitioncomes in, because there are
also some visualizationexercises where you just have to
recall where an active kindnesswas done to you in your life,
and there is no shortage of that.
(13:40):
If I reflect on my ownexperience, there are teachers,
people who help me, who werejust like a very ideal act of
goodwill, and then I can haveaccess to it And we have that
memory.
So it's more like imitatingthat, reflecting that and then
doing that Which is not like outof reach, although it seems
that way when I'm in a veryresentful, worrisome, fear
(14:02):
driven place.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Have you ever seen the Grinch who's still Christmas
?
Yes, and he's always.
He's hard-end he's.
But then he saw this act oflove and kindness and then his
heart got bigger.
Yeah, that's an example ofgiving love and he stole all the
gifts He grew in Christmas, butthen this community still gave
(14:28):
him love and kindness And thenhis heart was just couldn't
avoid the love and kindness Andhe went from that negative
Grinch to this this.
Well, there's purity or it'smeta, it's love and kindness.
Yeah, are there any examples?
Like you said, it's a thought,it can be an a past experience
(14:51):
where you felt this, any othertechniques where someone can
incorporate this meta into theireveryday life?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, the first, most simple basic entry is through
verbal recitation, you know, Andthat's the one we're on.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, because you know, like it's just words
sounds, but it's not about thesounds or the words, but it's
about the intention, connectingwith the energy behind those
words.
So it's a simple phrase as likemay I be happy, like if I really
connect with the true intentionbehind that word, or may you be
happy, i can look into youreyes, look and then I can really
(15:33):
mean it and say it may you behappy, and you can sense it at
the heart and mind level.
So, yeah, that would be a goodplace to start.
And then there's also somethingthat is helpful, which is that
it's hard to like talk about it,because there's that concept of
self-compassion, which is great, which is different from
(15:56):
selfishness, right, because metaloving kindness has to do with
selflessness.
So, like when I say may I behappy, which is effective
wording, but more effectivewording is may I learn how to be
truly happy, or may I truly behappy or may I find true
happiness, and by true for meand my experience, that when I
(16:19):
say, may I be happy, i want todrink because I know that will
make me happy, i want to usethis drug because that will make
me happy, which is a very bigdifference between may I truly
be happy or may I learn how tobe truly happy, which will mean,
yeah, actually I'm going to besober and go help somebody, or
go help somebody or somethingyou know.
So there's a self-compassionaspect where we're looking for
(16:43):
the skillful action, not like aselfish that I need this instant
gratification to be happy.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So it's not ill intent, it's true.
I think that's the bestdescriptor True happiness.
I always call drugs and alcoholYeah, it's a high, it's a
happiness, but it's a numbinghigh.
It's a false sense of happinessand love or connection.
In terms of self-compassion, itcan be challenging, you know,
(17:16):
such as dealing with difficultemotions, self-judgment or
resistance towards certainindividuals.
What are your recommendationswith that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, probably a concept that people are already
familiar with, but I think it isworth emphasizing and repeating
.
Which is also part of lovingkindness Is that loving kindness
cannot come as a replacement tothe difficulty.
The first step is to acceptwhere I'm at.
So if I am suffering, if I'm ina very terrible place, i cannot
(17:48):
be like me.
I'd be happy, i skip everythingand then truly be happy.
But the first step is righthere, in this moment, i'm
suffering and that's okay.
I need to see it as it is, andthen everybody else go through
this.
I'm not alone.
And then that open store.
That's also what I was trying tosay earlier about the
simplicity and the familiarityof this.
(18:09):
I don't need to.
That's also the wording of whenI say me I be happy is not like
I am happy right now, which isnot true.
It's an intention being set.
But before that, there has tobe a point where I see things as
they are, a set.
And it can be true with whenyou're trying to be helpful to a
friend too, like when somebodylost a friend and he's grieving
(18:33):
and I'm having a conversationwith him and I cannot be like,
forget about it, you should behappy, but no, i feel you, i can
sense your grief, and then thatbecomes like a first step to
accept the situation.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
First, Yeah, I'm just absorbing that with all you
guys as well.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
But I do have some structure by just based on my
tradition, which has yeah, idon't want to go deep, too deep
into it, but it has to do with,like Buddhist cosmology and
everything, but for me it iseffective.
But it's more about thediscipline and then the
structure and the repetition ofthe phrases And that's how I was
(19:16):
taught, which is quitetechnical, but that's how I
practice it on a regular basis,and then I recite that metta
sutra And but yeah, i mean forthe listeners, those simple
instructions, starting the dayout with you know me, i've been
also teaching my kids as well,which kind of warms my heart.
(19:38):
There's some like Bali wordsthat I say they're simple to
them And they're kind of like Idon't know if it's just a phase
for them, but they're superexcited about that, like they
know the words already.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Hey it's energy man.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
And then by the end of it Iteach them those simple wording
in English of like may I behappy, may I be safe, may I be
free from danger.
And then my daughter, bysurprise the other day she said
she added one thing that I nevertaught.
She said may I be loved.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I was like yeah, that's, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
She knows what it's all about.
It's within us all.
Yeah, you spiked my interestwhen you said Buddhist cosmology
.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Buddhist cosmology Yeah, buddhist universe.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Give us that might be another episode in there.
Oh yeah, give us a little bitfor this one.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So there are 32 planes of existence in Buddhist
cosmology And then I think we'realso having a conversation
about this before this podcasttoo that like there's a kapas,
which is like eons and timestuff like that.
But what is helpful with theBuddhist cosmology when it comes
to loving kindness is thatwe're in this human realm, but
(20:50):
there are specific prayers thatwe always thought is that
radiating loving kindness indifferent directions, like East,
south, northwest, above, belowBut with the 32 planes of
existence is that they arehigher planes where they're more
like celestial being, but itdoesn't mean they don't suffer.
They also suffer.
(21:10):
They're in this cycle ofsuffering, samsara, but then
they're also like hell realm.
So like it opens so many newdoors where you start radiating
loving kindness not only to thevisible world but like all
beings that can or cannot beseen either celestial or hell
realm, it doesn't matter, youknow so it's.
It's more of like an infinitepossibilities of radiating
(21:32):
loving kindness.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
That's meta in a whole different way.
Meta in a macro way, which willgive us another episode in the
future, for sure.
But when it comes to this loveand kindness meta, some of my
takeaways, when it comes to someof the key aspects to that meta
is an intention, it's apractice.
(21:56):
There's mindfulness.
It plays a crucial role, beingmindful of being fully present
and aware of it.
That jumps out at me.
There's certain loving kindnessphrases.
It involves recitingpotentially specific phrases or
affirmations that can expresswell wishes for oneself or
(22:16):
others.
And what I'm getting from thisepisode that I really didn't
know or take away from previous,the visualization that can come
with it.
Can you give us another example?
Because I think that's that'sthe soul of this.
That's my takeaway thevisualization when it comes to a
loving kindness practice.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, that's really good.
We're, we're all vibrationalright.
So, like when it comes to theeffect, being produced by meta
is personal, but it's alsogeneral too.
But the way I think about it islike a calming, like really
soothing, cool water, and it's afeeling.
(22:57):
So when somebody is radiatingthat, you can sense it, and when
you're radiating it to otherpeople can sense it.
So it's more like a It's anattraction.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's to me in my words, what If I were to, in my
words, what you're saying?
it's an emotional connectionand it's cultivating a sense of
compassion for myself and others, and it's an energetic feel
that I think can be contagious.
like your daughter said love,she added it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, yeah, there's something very purifying about
that.
You know, it's not made up,it's not something that is
created, it's something that isuncovered and it's authentic.
So that's why it's so universal.
And yeah, i mean, like you said, it's also part of the
mindfulness practice too.
Right, you can go to areligious ground or you can
(23:52):
enter somebody's house and youcan just sense that peacefulness
.
You know it's very visceral.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
There's a physiological, like you said,
visceral thing that happens whenyou visualize it.
When it's happening, it doessomething different to the brain
, which does something differentto the physical and the
emotional and the verbal.
When we visualize it, whilewe're thinking it and feeling it
(24:21):
, it changes our brain chemistry, it changes the energy.
When we do it that way, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And then you know words and visualization can be
connected too.
One of the things that can behelpful is the wording of.
you know, there are somemeditation instructions where
you pay attention to the breath,and then there's the wording of
like softening or relaxing thejaw, the shoulders, your belly.
(24:48):
You know when you do that it'sa word but like it has that
visual effect too When youimagine relaxing your jaw you
know, when you imagine softeningyour belly and then when you
also imagine softening yourheart.
You know these are just wordsbut like they can have a very
powerful visual effect to it andthat loving kindness become
(25:10):
more accessible when you usethose descriptions to your heart
.
And then you can think aboutradiating or sending out love,
you know, which is like energy,a race of energy that you send
out.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, I've loved this conversation.
Anything else you want to sharewith our listeners before we
have our final?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
remarks.
Yeah, so the one practice whichI think is universal is the
directional meta radiating.
So, like I say, it is universalbecause we live in this
atmosphere.
Right, there's air we cannotsee, but it's everywhere.
(25:53):
We're surrounded by it.
Meta is like that too.
So there are some meditationpractices where I do, where I
start imagining, like all in theeast direction, all the way
across, may all beings in thisdirection, may they be happy,
healthy, free from danger, freefrom anger, and then it just
works, but like I can physicallysend out and receive, so that
(26:16):
can be a good practice forpeople who want to try it.
So like, just systematically,may all beings in this direction
.
So like northeast, or whenyou're sitting you can be in the
front, in the back, to the left, to the right, to the right
front or whatever you know, in10 directions.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think one way you've shared with me when we've
done you've done your groupmeditations is everyone in this
room and then everyone in thisbuilding and everyone on this
road, everyone in this town,everyone in this, and that
helped me just feel it expandoutwards and more vast and large
(26:54):
, guided me with thatdirectional feeling towards the
area.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, i think anything is perpetual.
So I do wanna give listeners achallenge or a practice where
begin your day with lovingkindness and then see where it
takes you.
And it can be a positivefeedback loop because, yeah,
there's something that isundeniably there when things
(27:23):
become experiential.
So for me, yeah, i connect withpeople at a deeper level when I
am coming from a place ofloving kindness And people sense
it too right, because when Ihave a resentment or separation,
it comes from that.
Oh, that person is different,that person doesn't know how I'm
(27:45):
suffering as if we aredifferent, but we're not.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, i've heard someone say that the first five
people in their day, when theyleave their house, they're just
gonna give a pass too, no matterwhat they do, tongue in cheek.
But you know what I mean.
But I like your example thatmuch more.
Let's say there's first fivepeople that you see, why don't
you give them that lovingkindness and that meta, not just
(28:11):
give them a pass, but give themthat visceral energy of loving,
kindness and compassion?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, i think that will be a good note to end on,
but I do also do wannadifferentiate one final thought
of like passionate love withattachment, because attachment
is not a good thing, likecraving, which is a different
kind of love, which is not whatwe're talking about.
But this is like a platonicloving kindness, in a way of
like I want nothing in return,because there's an idea of love
(28:40):
in terms of possessiveness.
I love this person, i want thisperson to be this way, that way
, yeah.
So I wanna differentiate thattoo, because I don't know if
it's a translation when you sayloving kindness, which is
different from like passionatelove or sexual love or romantic
love, yeah, the unconditionallove, the non-expectations that
we as humans often connect There.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Either love is or isn't right.
We put conditions on loveanyway.
Yeah, yeah.
I hope this was helpful.
Yeah, i mean.
At its core, meta involvesgenerating sincere well wishes
and positive intentions for allwell-beings, happiness and
safety of oneself and others.
It is a transformative practicethat aims to dissolve barriers
of separation, ego-drivendesires like we just said and
(29:26):
harmful attitudes, fostering adeep sense of connection,
empathy and understanding.
Meta is not limited to personalrelationships, where those who
are easy to love, but includeall beings, regardless of their
background, social status oreven perceived enemies.
The practice encouragespractitioners to develop a
boundless, all-embracing lovethat transcends boundaries,
(29:48):
biases and prejudices.
By regularly engaging in metameditation and integrating
loving kindness into daily life,individuals can cultivate a
compassionate heart, reducenegative emotions, enhance
emotional well-being and fosterharmonious relationships.
Ultimately, the practice ofmeta aims to create a more
(30:10):
compassionate and caring society, promoting peace, understanding
and genuine happiness for allbeings.
Beautiful.
Yeah Well, thanks, zal, this wasfun.
I feel the loving kindness inthis room it's buzzing.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Nice.
Yeah, I don't know where it'scoming from.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
It must be you, the listeners.
So thanks for giving it backAnd if you guys liked this
episode, please like, comment,subscribe and, most importantly,
share with others, ascollectively We can find a
solution to all things healthand wellness.
My name's Luke DeBoi.
This is Zal.
See you next time.
See ya.
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