January 15, 2024 • 29 mins
On this reflective voyage, we unravel the intricate tapestry that weaves together mindfulness, therapy, and recovery within the comforting embrace of a community destined for healing.
In the heart of our latest episode, we cast a light on the symbiotic relationship between a mindful existence and the road to recovery. Zaw recounts the significance of his ninth sobriety anniversary. This milestone echoes through the narrative of finding solace in meditation and the supportive arms of those who walk alongside us. Zaw enriches our dialogue with his expertise on how mindfulness creates a 'muscle memory' to combat cravings, charting a course for anyone navigating the stormy seas of addiction. Through shared stories and experiences, we celebrate the unique and personal quests we embark upon toward a life of balance and tranquility.
Visit our website!
Creating a Sustainable Recovery Plan: Mindfulness and the Power of Community — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Zaw Maw — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Luke DeBoy — Recovery Collective — Annapolis, MD (recoverycollectivemd.com)
Tuesday, January 16th: Live National Recording with Luke DeBoy: Recovery in America. (Link coming soon)
Saturday, January 20th: Workshop & Club 164: Rebuilding the Bridge, Therapy & Recovery. There's no need to sign up; it's a free event. See you there!
New Episodes are released every Monday.
Please send your questions to luke@recoverycollectivemd.com
Thanks for listening, and please subscribe/comment/review/follow/like; if you think others would benefit from the podcast episode, share with others, as COLLECTIVELY, we can find solutions to all things health and wellness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greetings, fellow seekers of mindfulness and all
forms of health and wellness,and welcome to another
captivating episode of ATherapist of Buddhist in you.
We are co-host Zalhan Luke, andtoday's exploration promises
you to be introspective andenlightening.
So all we're being brought toyou by the Recovery Collective
(00:22):
in Annapolis, maryland awonderful home for healing,
growth and change.
Go check out their link in theshow notes and if you want some
one-on-one counseling from Zal,that's also the place to go.
So go ahead and check out theRecovery Collective.
This episode is being releasedthe week of January 15th and it
is a fun and fruitful week, zal,for me and some of our local
(00:43):
listeners here in Annapolis,maryland, in this general area.
So Tuesday, which is January16th, at 7 pm at Club 164 in
downtown Annapolis area, I willbe presenting in an
award-winning your voice, yourfuture Town Hall series.
What do you think about that?
(01:04):
That sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm glad you will be there.
I appreciate that support andwe'll be live and nationally
televised to more than over 125television stations so,
depending on when you'relistening, I should be able to
put that link for the live eventif you want to watch it
streaming, or you might be ableto check out your TV station.
(01:31):
But the topic is Recovery inAmerica and we'll basically be
focusing on measures to assistpeople in recovery from their
addictions.
So it'll be a panel.
It'll be myself as the licensedtherapist and certified
addiction you know,quote-unquote I use this loosely
expert, but appreciate it BrockAnderson, who's the founder of
(01:53):
Club 164, which is a Soborecovery club, kind of one of
its first of its kind, and it'sit's we've done an episode with
Brock in the club, countyexecutive Stuart Pittman, and
then a recovering addict,alcoholic Chad Richie.
We'll all be on the panel andthen at the club there'll be
(02:17):
like 80 to 100 people andthey'll be asking questions and
when it comes to the topic andthe, we'll also get questions
from people streaming.
So I have it's not like I canexactly prepare for this because
it's a live event and it'sabout recovery in America, but
(02:38):
it's certainly a topic that I'mfamiliar with.
So if you have any interests,whether it's live or the
recording, I'll make sure to putthat in the show notes.
So yeah, and in addition, tothat that will be on the 16th
and, once again for those in thearea, saturday the 20th, I'm
(03:00):
doing a therapy and recoveryworkshop from noon to 5 pm, also
at the club.
This was set up before this TVthing that was working with
Brock gave me a call and they'redoing a lot of things, for you
know, this is a non-profit soberclub and yes, they have
(03:22):
recovery meetings, but theyoffer a lot of awesome services
and this year they're doing someresume building.
They're bringing some people inthat have the skill set to help
people with their resume.
They're having a lawyer that'sdonating his time that people
might have some legal issues andme, as a therapist, I'm going
to donate my time in the senseof from noon to 1 pm I'll be
(03:48):
talking about doinga live eventor a workshop on kind of the
role of therapy in all forms ofhealing.
So I'll talk about how therapycan augment your current
recovery if you're not intherapy, or how therapy can
augment your 12-step recoveryand vice versa.
A lot of times people may gothrough getting sober through
(04:11):
12-step recovery and they mayhave a stigma towards talk
therapy.
So that will be the first hourand then I'll do some breakout
sessions individually for peopleif they might feel more
comfortable to talk to them forabout 15-20 minutes on their
questions and therapy in general.
If they want some referrals,I'd be glad to help them with
referrals and I'll be doing thatfrom 1 to 5.
(04:34):
And the club wanted me todonate some therapy sessions, so
I try to find out how can Iclinically and ethically best do
that.
So I'm donating a handful ofsessions similar to like an EAP
amount of sessions and then, ifit's the person's appropriate,
I'm not gonna do a deep dive andcut them off after a handful of
(04:56):
sessions.
But yeah, so that will be onthe 20th.
So a lot going on next week forme and if you guys are
interested around the Annapolisarea, come join us.
Pretty interesting, huh.
So let's talk about what we'redoing next.
Huh, what are we doing?
I think in this episode we havethe privilege of delving into
(05:17):
the insightful mind of ourTheravada Life Recovery and
coach Zall, and I think todaywe're doing a how.
I don't think we've coined aterm yet, zall, but you continue
to write some awesome articlesthat people can can check out at
the Recovery Collective website, and it's a good one that
(05:41):
you're sharing with us today andwell, have you read it, and
then you're gonna expand on it,and then, if something jumps out
at me I know last time we didthis you just went right for it,
so we'll get right into it.
I've been talking too long, soyou take it from here.
Zall, thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Okay, yeah, sounds good.
I might not read the wholething or I might pause after
each thing.
I'll just tried to play it byear, but I want to thank the
website for me to have aplatform to.
I've always been interested inwriting, but it's good to have
that opportunity to write thingsthat are practical for people
and also reflecting on my owngenuine experience, so it's a
(06:25):
really good connection, so Iwant to express my gratitude for
that.
So let's dive in.
So the title of the block, as Iremember and it will appear on
the screen eventually as well, Ibelieve but it is creating a
sustainable recovery plan,specifically, mindfulness and
(06:46):
the power of community.
So I will be reading that.
And again, this comes from myexperience, which is original,
but things that I learned.
It's not original.
I learned everything frompeople, wise people before me,
(07:09):
both in recovery and in Buddhism.
So, yeah, so there are twoparts to it.
First is meditation part andthen the second is recovery,
community part.
So I'll expand more on that asI'm reading it.
So I'll just go ahead and startreading again the title.
But creating a sustainablerecovery plan mindfulness and
(07:34):
the power of community,self-awareness and solidarity in
recovery.
Every step is a delicatebalance between personal
introspection and the strengthfound in the support of others.
This path, while deeplyindividual, is enriched when
walked with others.
(07:55):
This block will explore theessence of the first foundation
of mindfulness according toBuddhism, where self-awareness
becomes our guide and the warmthof a supportive community our
steady companion.
Together, these elements weavea sustainable path towards
healing.
Let's discover how mindfulnessand the power of collective
(08:18):
wisdom can eliminate the road ofrecovery.
First part is the firstfoundation of mindfulness.
According to the sattipatana,which is translated as the four
foundations of mindfulness, is adiscourse, a Buddhist discourse
that specifically dive into thepractice of mindfulness.
(08:38):
And the first foundation, firstfoundation of mindfulness is
mindfulness of the body gayak-a-y-a, that's the body term.
So this is what I have written.
As we navigate the recoveryjourney, our first and most
intimate guide is our own body,the primary focus of the first
(08:58):
foundation of mindfulness.
This ancient practice, rooted inthe cultivation of
self-awareness, teaches us totune into our body's language,
understanding the signals andmessages as we move towards
healing.
Mindfulness of the body beginswith simple awareness.
It is about noticing the breathas it flows in and out, feeling
(09:22):
the subtle rise and fall of theabdomen or the sensation of air
passing through the nostrils.
This act of mindful noting canbe a powerful anchor bringing us
back to the present moment,especially in times of stress or
craving.
But it extends beyond thebreath.
(09:42):
In how we mindfully observe ouractions, whether eating,
walking, sitting, standing orresting, we learn to recognize
our body's responses todifferent emotions and thoughts.
This awareness is crucial inrecovery, as it allows us to
detect early signs of discomfortor unease, which are often the
(10:05):
precursors to cravings orrelapse.
This awareness practice helpsground us in the here and now,
providing a stable foundation aswe face the complexities of
recovery.
The beauty of the firstfoundation lies in this
simplicity and accessibility.
It is always available to us, aconstant and gentle reminder to
(10:29):
return to the present moment.
As we cultivate this awareness,we build a stronger, more
present self, better equipped todeal with the ups and downs of
recovery.
So I'll pause there really quickand share a little bit of my
thoughts as I'm reading it.
So what sparked me to do thiswriting comes from the fact that
(10:54):
I was talking to a friend andmy sobriety day came up, and
then my friend's response waslike oh, you have nine years
coming up, and it just caught meby surprise and it makes me
think about how has my recoverybeen sustainable for this long?
So it was like a pleasantsurprise.
(11:15):
And then I think about what'sbeen happening in my recent
recovery and also what's beenconsistent in my recovery since
from the beginning.
And it goes to these twofoundations meditation practice
and the relying and drawingenergy and the strength out of
the recovery community.
So that's a background story.
But to expand more on the firstfoundation, it does come from
(11:37):
the four foundations ofmindfulness.
But what I'd like to unpackmore on with this writing, with
this piece, is so there's thefour foundations of mindfulness,
which is satipatana forfoundations.
First is mindfulness of thebody, second is mindfulness of
the feelings, third ismindfulness of the mind and then
(11:59):
the fourth is mindfulness ofthe truth.
But interestingly, there's alsoanother expensive discourse
which is called anapati,anapanatati, which translates as
mindfulness of breathing, andit's really interesting and very
long because it expands eachfoundation into tetraths, so it
(12:24):
turns out to be 16 steps becauseeach foundation is spanned into
four steps.
So I like to talk more aboutthat and there are different
theories according to the canonthat some people say that only
if you complete all those 16steps, the path to liberation is
possible.
But there are also other schoolof thought where you can just
(12:46):
focus on one tetrath deeply andthen it can lead to liberation.
So I don't subscribe to eithernecessarily, or one over the
other, but I would like toexplore more into the first
foundation of mindfulness fromthat point of view.
So, without getting tootechnical, I do wanna share
about those four steps.
(13:06):
Which is very relevant forrecovery is that the first two
steps is quite simple, which hasto do with observation of the
breath.
So when somebody, when onebreathes in, if it's short, one
notes that that's a short breath, and when you breathe out, if
it's long, one notes that it's along breath.
And those are the two simpleinstructions.
(13:27):
But at the same time it can bea span it into.
That's a deep breath, that's ashallow breath, that's a
sensation of heat at the tip ofthe nose when I breathe out, or
that's a sensation of coolnessat the tip of the nose when I
breathe in.
Whatever it is, it has a lot todo with being present with the
body.
So it has to do with thebreathing, but it can be a span
(13:50):
it into the body too, which hasbeen very helpful for me,
especially for the past fewyears, since I started adding
yoga classes and practices to myrecovery journey as well.
So the body can be verygrounding when we're present
with it.
But then the third and thefourth step is where it gets
(14:10):
interesting, because after we'vegrounded being present, being
observant we can start usingthat as a tool.
So the third step is aboutbreathing in and you sensitize
your body.
So you breathe in and youbecome sensitive to different
feelings showing up in the body,which can be very helpful when
(14:33):
dealing with cravings or dealingwith stress.
And, as we know, you know, oras people in recovery know,
drinking or using it's just asymptom, it's a solution.
So it is as a result ofsomething that has already
occurred, when somebody relapsed.
There's also that term peopleuse called a pre-lapse.
You know it all starts in thethinking, and drinking or using
(14:55):
or going back to an old behavioris the byproduct of everything
that has already happened priorto that.
So mindfulness is very usefulbecause we can take action
before it's too late, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So yeah, do you want?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
to jump in.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, when you said that in that beginning paragraph
and this jumped out at me andyou were soon to be explaining
it.
This ancient practice, rootedin cultivation of self-awareness
and this is my favorite part sofar teaches us to tune into our
body's language, understandingits signals and messages as we
(15:33):
move towards healing.
So I'm thinking about that insomeone in early recovery or
long-term recovery, to yourpoint that, and I'll ask you, do
you have an example whetherit's for you or some of your
recovery clients that were theirexamples or your example of
what was your body language?
What was the signal for youthat your body was letting you
(15:57):
know, whether it was stress,anxiety or craving?
What was some of that body'slanguage that you were up?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, it is different for different people, but I
think there are also somegeneralization.
When it comes to fear, when itcomes to anxiety or insecurity,
sense of safety, things likethat.
But for craving in particular,for me, in my experience and
people that I've worked with,that the symptom can be noticed
(16:29):
in the breathing, like breathingfaster, or a little bit of
discomfort in the chest or forsome people it's in the stomach,
like some kind of intuitivefeeling, but for me usually at
least, into a relapse eventuallyanyway.
But the sensation in general isa little bit of like some kind
(16:52):
of a tanglement that needs to beuntangled, which also has to do
with the first step of thatfirst foundation, which I'll
share a little bit.
But it comes from that place oflike tightness that there is
something that is beingtightened, you know, and it
needs some release, you know.
So it can be any kind oftension that shows up in the
(17:15):
body.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I know over the years some of my clients they bite
the inside of their cheek or,before their anxiety level got
bad, where they noticed it washigh in anxiety, they might
twirl their hair or just rubtheir hairline and these were
signs that some of the bodylanguage overtly.
(17:41):
And I like your examples too,because it's almost like man if
we're present, with ourbreathing, the cadence, the
feelings, the entanglement, it'san awesome level of mindfulness
and awareness.
It's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And then a big part of recovery too is having the
ability to make choices.
You know that's also it's veryrelated to mindfulness, because
we're able to expand the gapbetween a thought and making a
decision.
You know, being an alcoholic oran addict means that there's
not much of a gap.
I have a thought and I do itright away.
You know there's acompulsiveness, impulsiveness,
(18:22):
but being aware of the bodyreally helps kind of slow down
the process and then doingsomething else as opposed to
things that our brain is wiredto do in addiction.
Also, to expand more on that too, I realized that I used to just
meditate, you know, just withthe mind.
(18:43):
But since I've started doingyoga, I also have this habit of
I do full lotus, you know, crosslike it over time, especially
if it's a long practice.
I self correct by looking atthe mirror in terms of like,
symmetry or alignment, and it'sreally amazing how even a minor
adjustment, like a microadjustment, can have an effect
(19:03):
on the mind, like some kind ofmisalignment, and when it's
corrected to be straight, like,the mind gets affected by it.
It's kind of amazing how mindand body are also connected, you
know.
So I will, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I keep thinking of your gosh.
Each one of these expands intofour more steps for the
teachings.
I can see why.
I can see why.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
So I like to connect the laststep, four step, of that first
foundation with the remainingpart of the writing, which I can
just summarize without havingto read it.
The whole thing is that thefour step is the again, that
ability to make a choice.
So the first two steps isobservation, and then the third
(19:55):
step is sensitizing, like beingin tune with what's actually am
I feeling in these parts of thebody.
And then the fourth step isthat I can use a breath and then
calm the body or release thetension or soften any kind of
tightness, so your body becomeslight, a meditation object that
(20:18):
you can work with in a way.
So that is what it is, but also, at the same time, to connect
with the collective wisdom.
Is that people who are connectedwith meetings and recovery
community really knows this,because the suggestion in the
recovery community, especiallyin 12-step community, they talk
(20:41):
about going to 90 meetings in 90days.
And there's power in that,because when we I guess it's
different during COVID, but whenyou go to a meeting or physical
gathering, it's your physicallybeing there and if you start
paying attention to how you'refeeling in the meeting or in the
(21:02):
group, there's something thatis being communicated.
It's almost like an electricalfield when you walk in, either
as a warmth or there is a senseof safety and something happened
physically in our psyche orsomething happened to our state
of being, and then the more youdo it, the more you get used to
it, and then I guess some kindof transfer of energy to when
(21:26):
you see people who've been soberfor like decades and then you
start kind of getting thatenergy, that vibe from them, and
then it creates room for safetyand then the possibility of
some kind of change.
So that's how I like to connectthe four step of like having
that ability to come and choosenot to drink or use, with the
(21:49):
help of the power of you know,the collective wisdom, or
relying on, or at least beingopen to, some ideas that I
haven't entertained before.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That's great.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, we only scratched thesurface.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
This is good.
Do you have any particularquestions that seem unclear or
something that jumped out to you, Luke?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I think that's a good starting off point, I guess.
What would you tell the?
What would you recommend to thelisteners as you gave them a
taste of that mindfulness ofthat body, that first foundation
?
What are you wanting them totake away or recommending for
(22:35):
someone that just received alittle tidbit from you?
Where can they go with this?
What should they practice intheir recovery practice when it
comes to the mindfulness of thebody, the first foundation?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, great question, and that gives me an
opportunity to express my, youknow, sincere mission, or
genuine mission, is I do believein the innate wisdom, or
intuitive wisdom, or intuitivekindness that is available
within each and every one of us.
So that's why I also am a bigproponent of silent meditation
(23:17):
and stillness.
So one thing that I can share isabout when we spend time with
our body and with our mind in avery intentional and mindful and
kind way, on a consistent basis, we end up becoming a good
friend to ourself, you know,which is a good antidote for,
(23:39):
you know, any kind ofdestructive or any kind of
addictive behavior, which to me,is a form of self abuse.
You know there is an abuse ofthe body or misuse of the
instincts and the body.
So, like getting in tune andbecoming familiar with how our
body responds to differentsituations or different emotions
(23:59):
.
It becomes like something thatyou're working with together,
you know, and the choiceshealthier diet, or healthier
lifestyle, exercising they allcome naturally as we start
listening to the body.
The body knows, you know thebody does a lot of things that
are like beyond our conception,you know, like digestion, or
(24:24):
being able to use water in avery proportional way, or like
minerals, like chemicals and allthese things that are happening
, and it has its ownintelligence going on.
So working together with thatis a great help.
I hope that answers yourquestion, or I hope that's yeah,
that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I want to give, let's say, the listener that either
is trying to get to a rural andearly recovery and they are,
have a craving and they're doingthat.
One of the coping skills inpeople's toolbox that we
recommend is to do a meditation.
(25:07):
Is there something that youwould recommend?
That might be a little bit, Iknow it's not often you go to,
but how would you guide themwhen it comes to the first
foundation with a meditation ifthey have a craving?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, breathing definitely is a good place, but
it can also be a littleoverwhelming for some people.
So any kind of walkingmeditation can be good to being
present with each step.
But if you already have accessto a recovery community, that
can be as simple as a meditationpractice like physically going
(25:47):
to a meeting and then making acommitment to stay for the whole
hour.
But it is meditation becauseyou don't leave you sit there
and there are people around youwhich is keeping you safe, and
that one hour, whether you knowit or not, is meditation.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, that you just saying that reminded me of
almost countless amount ofconversations I've had with
people when I worked attreatment facilities.
And they come into my office andthey have a very strong white
knuckling type of craving and Italk with them for whether it's
(26:25):
five minutes or 15 minutes,maybe 30 max, but usually that
15 minute mark is often thesweet spot and they come into my
office and they're shakingtheir leg and their heads down
and they're up and they're justbreathing hard and the shortness
of breath, but all those thingsand just full blown physical
(26:46):
craving and usually in 15minutes for the people watching
on video, they're back here andI asked them hey, do you notice,
Do you know how relaxed yourbody is?
And it's almost like a wholeshit moment.
That where they came in talkingto me and then a 15 to 30
(27:07):
minute mindful conversation.
I helped them realize wheretheir body is now and bringing
that mindfulness and awarenessto the cravings gone.
And your example of walking toa meeting, feeling your feelings
and feeling your body and ameeting can be a mindfulness
(27:28):
practice.
So thank you for reminding meof that, that it doesn't have to
be this yes, breathe this wayand exhale this no, mindfully
walk to a meeting, and it's it.
Thank you Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, it can just be an incremental collection of
even if it's like 0.001%, ofbelieving that everything's
going to be okay and it adds upand because, as an addict, we
know that when we're in thatwithdrawal place it's like we're
going to die if we don't dothat, we're going to die if we
don't use it.
But as we sit with it werealize that oh, actually I made
(28:07):
it.
So that becomes like a goodmuscle memory for next time and
over the years that's like amuscle that is being practiced,
which can be done.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's awesome.
Thank you, zao.
Thanks for shedding more lighton that to us and for the
listeners out there.
You may have read only 30 or50% of his articles, so if you'd
like to read the full thing,I'll leave a link in the show
notes as well.
As we conclude our explorationwith Zao today, remember that
(28:40):
the transferative power ofmindfulness and the strength
found in a sustainable recoveryplan Carry these insights into
your recovery, cultivatingself-awareness and fostering
connections.
Special thanks to Zao forsharing his wisdom and if you
found this inspirational, pleaselike, comment and or subscribe.
I can't say that enough, soplease do so.
(29:02):
Thank you and Jeff, two.
Healing is ongoing and yourjourney is uniquely yours.
Stay tuned for more enrichingconversations on mindfulness and
recovery.
Be mindful, be present andcontinue your journey toward a
balance and fulfilling life.
My name is Luke, this is Zao,and we'll see you next time.
Thanks, see ya.
Thank you.
Greetings, fellow seekers of mindfulness and all
forms of health and wellness,and welcome to another
captivating episode of ATherapist of Buddhist in you.
We are co-host Zalhan Luke, andtoday's exploration promises
you to be introspective andenlightening.
So all we're being brought toyou by the Recovery Collective
(00:22):
in Annapolis, maryland awonderful home for healing,
growth and change.
Go check out their link in theshow notes and if you want some
one-on-one counseling from Zal,that's also the place to go.
So go ahead and check out theRecovery Collective.
This episode is being releasedthe week of January 15th and it
is a fun and fruitful week, zal,for me and some of our local
(00:43):
listeners here in Annapolis,maryland, in this general area.
So Tuesday, which is January16th, at 7 pm at Club 164 in
downtown Annapolis area, I willbe presenting in an
award-winning your voice, yourfuture Town Hall series.
What do you think about that?
(01:04):
That sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm glad you will be there.
I appreciate that support andwe'll be live and nationally
televised to more than over 125television stations so,
depending on when you'relistening, I should be able to
put that link for the live eventif you want to watch it
streaming, or you might be ableto check out your TV station.
(01:31):
But the topic is Recovery inAmerica and we'll basically be
focusing on measures to assistpeople in recovery from their
addictions.
So it'll be a panel.
It'll be myself as the licensedtherapist and certified
addiction you know,quote-unquote I use this loosely
expert, but appreciate it BrockAnderson, who's the founder of
(01:53):
Club 164, which is a Soborecovery club, kind of one of
its first of its kind, and it'sit's we've done an episode with
Brock in the club, countyexecutive Stuart Pittman, and
then a recovering addict,alcoholic Chad Richie.
We'll all be on the panel andthen at the club there'll be
(02:17):
like 80 to 100 people andthey'll be asking questions and
when it comes to the topic andthe, we'll also get questions
from people streaming.
So I have it's not like I canexactly prepare for this because
it's a live event and it'sabout recovery in America, but
(02:38):
it's certainly a topic that I'mfamiliar with.
So if you have any interests,whether it's live or the
recording, I'll make sure to putthat in the show notes.
So yeah, and in addition, tothat that will be on the 16th
and, once again for those in thearea, saturday the 20th, I'm
(03:00):
doing a therapy and recoveryworkshop from noon to 5 pm, also
at the club.
This was set up before this TVthing that was working with
Brock gave me a call and they'redoing a lot of things, for you
know, this is a non-profit soberclub and yes, they have
(03:22):
recovery meetings, but theyoffer a lot of awesome services
and this year they're doing someresume building.
They're bringing some people inthat have the skill set to help
people with their resume.
They're having a lawyer that'sdonating his time that people
might have some legal issues andme, as a therapist, I'm going
to donate my time in the senseof from noon to 1 pm I'll be
(03:48):
talking about doinga live eventor a workshop on kind of the
role of therapy in all forms ofhealing.
So I'll talk about how therapycan augment your current
recovery if you're not intherapy, or how therapy can
augment your 12-step recoveryand vice versa.
A lot of times people may gothrough getting sober through
(04:11):
12-step recovery and they mayhave a stigma towards talk
therapy.
So that will be the first hourand then I'll do some breakout
sessions individually for peopleif they might feel more
comfortable to talk to them forabout 15-20 minutes on their
questions and therapy in general.
If they want some referrals,I'd be glad to help them with
referrals and I'll be doing thatfrom 1 to 5.
(04:34):
And the club wanted me todonate some therapy sessions, so
I try to find out how can Iclinically and ethically best do
that.
So I'm donating a handful ofsessions similar to like an EAP
amount of sessions and then, ifit's the person's appropriate,
I'm not gonna do a deep dive andcut them off after a handful of
(04:56):
sessions.
But yeah, so that will be onthe 20th.
So a lot going on next week forme and if you guys are
interested around the Annapolisarea, come join us.
Pretty interesting, huh.
So let's talk about what we'redoing next.
Huh, what are we doing?
I think in this episode we havethe privilege of delving into
(05:17):
the insightful mind of ourTheravada Life Recovery and
coach Zall, and I think todaywe're doing a how.
I don't think we've coined aterm yet, zall, but you continue
to write some awesome articlesthat people can can check out at
the Recovery Collective website, and it's a good one that
(05:41):
you're sharing with us today andwell, have you read it, and
then you're gonna expand on it,and then, if something jumps out
at me I know last time we didthis you just went right for it,
so we'll get right into it.
I've been talking too long, soyou take it from here.
Zall, thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Okay, yeah, sounds good.
I might not read the wholething or I might pause after
each thing.
I'll just tried to play it byear, but I want to thank the
website for me to have aplatform to.
I've always been interested inwriting, but it's good to have
that opportunity to write thingsthat are practical for people
and also reflecting on my owngenuine experience, so it's a
(06:25):
really good connection, so Iwant to express my gratitude for
that.
So let's dive in.
So the title of the block, as Iremember and it will appear on
the screen eventually as well, Ibelieve but it is creating a
sustainable recovery plan,specifically, mindfulness and
(06:46):
the power of community.
So I will be reading that.
And again, this comes from myexperience, which is original,
but things that I learned.
It's not original.
I learned everything frompeople, wise people before me,
(07:09):
both in recovery and in Buddhism.
So, yeah, so there are twoparts to it.
First is meditation part andthen the second is recovery,
community part.
So I'll expand more on that asI'm reading it.
So I'll just go ahead and startreading again the title.
But creating a sustainablerecovery plan mindfulness and
(07:34):
the power of community,self-awareness and solidarity in
recovery.
Every step is a delicatebalance between personal
introspection and the strengthfound in the support of others.
This path, while deeplyindividual, is enriched when
walked with others.
(07:55):
This block will explore theessence of the first foundation
of mindfulness according toBuddhism, where self-awareness
becomes our guide and the warmthof a supportive community our
steady companion.
Together, these elements weavea sustainable path towards
healing.
Let's discover how mindfulnessand the power of collective
(08:18):
wisdom can eliminate the road ofrecovery.
First part is the firstfoundation of mindfulness.
According to the sattipatana,which is translated as the four
foundations of mindfulness, is adiscourse, a Buddhist discourse
that specifically dive into thepractice of mindfulness.
(08:38):
And the first foundation, firstfoundation of mindfulness is
mindfulness of the body gayak-a-y-a, that's the body term.
So this is what I have written.
As we navigate the recoveryjourney, our first and most
intimate guide is our own body,the primary focus of the first
(08:58):
foundation of mindfulness.
This ancient practice, rooted inthe cultivation of
self-awareness, teaches us totune into our body's language,
understanding the signals andmessages as we move towards
healing.
Mindfulness of the body beginswith simple awareness.
It is about noticing the breathas it flows in and out, feeling
(09:22):
the subtle rise and fall of theabdomen or the sensation of air
passing through the nostrils.
This act of mindful noting canbe a powerful anchor bringing us
back to the present moment,especially in times of stress or
craving.
But it extends beyond thebreath.
(09:42):
In how we mindfully observe ouractions, whether eating,
walking, sitting, standing orresting, we learn to recognize
our body's responses todifferent emotions and thoughts.
This awareness is crucial inrecovery, as it allows us to
detect early signs of discomfortor unease, which are often the
(10:05):
precursors to cravings orrelapse.
This awareness practice helpsground us in the here and now,
providing a stable foundation aswe face the complexities of
recovery.
The beauty of the firstfoundation lies in this
simplicity and accessibility.
It is always available to us, aconstant and gentle reminder to
(10:29):
return to the present moment.
As we cultivate this awareness,we build a stronger, more
present self, better equipped todeal with the ups and downs of
recovery.
So I'll pause there really quickand share a little bit of my
thoughts as I'm reading it.
So what sparked me to do thiswriting comes from the fact that
(10:54):
I was talking to a friend andmy sobriety day came up, and
then my friend's response waslike oh, you have nine years
coming up, and it just caught meby surprise and it makes me
think about how has my recoverybeen sustainable for this long?
So it was like a pleasantsurprise.
(11:15):
And then I think about what'sbeen happening in my recent
recovery and also what's beenconsistent in my recovery since
from the beginning.
And it goes to these twofoundations meditation practice
and the relying and drawingenergy and the strength out of
the recovery community.
So that's a background story.
But to expand more on the firstfoundation, it does come from
(11:37):
the four foundations ofmindfulness.
But what I'd like to unpackmore on with this writing, with
this piece, is so there's thefour foundations of mindfulness,
which is satipatana forfoundations.
First is mindfulness of thebody, second is mindfulness of
the feelings, third ismindfulness of the mind and then
(11:59):
the fourth is mindfulness ofthe truth.
But interestingly, there's alsoanother expensive discourse
which is called anapati,anapanatati, which translates as
mindfulness of breathing, andit's really interesting and very
long because it expands eachfoundation into tetraths, so it
(12:24):
turns out to be 16 steps becauseeach foundation is spanned into
four steps.
So I like to talk more aboutthat and there are different
theories according to the canonthat some people say that only
if you complete all those 16steps, the path to liberation is
possible.
But there are also other schoolof thought where you can just
(12:46):
focus on one tetrath deeply andthen it can lead to liberation.
So I don't subscribe to eithernecessarily, or one over the
other, but I would like toexplore more into the first
foundation of mindfulness fromthat point of view.
So, without getting tootechnical, I do wanna share
about those four steps.
(13:06):
Which is very relevant forrecovery is that the first two
steps is quite simple, which hasto do with observation of the
breath.
So when somebody, when onebreathes in, if it's short, one
notes that that's a short breath, and when you breathe out, if
it's long, one notes that it's along breath.
And those are the two simpleinstructions.
(13:27):
But at the same time it can bea span it into.
That's a deep breath, that's ashallow breath, that's a
sensation of heat at the tip ofthe nose when I breathe out, or
that's a sensation of coolnessat the tip of the nose when I
breathe in.
Whatever it is, it has a lot todo with being present with the
body.
So it has to do with thebreathing, but it can be a span
(13:50):
it into the body too, which hasbeen very helpful for me,
especially for the past fewyears, since I started adding
yoga classes and practices to myrecovery journey as well.
So the body can be verygrounding when we're present
with it.
But then the third and thefourth step is where it gets
(14:10):
interesting, because after we'vegrounded being present, being
observant we can start usingthat as a tool.
So the third step is aboutbreathing in and you sensitize
your body.
So you breathe in and youbecome sensitive to different
feelings showing up in the body,which can be very helpful when
(14:33):
dealing with cravings or dealingwith stress.
And, as we know, you know, oras people in recovery know,
drinking or using it's just asymptom, it's a solution.
So it is as a result ofsomething that has already
occurred, when somebody relapsed.
There's also that term peopleuse called a pre-lapse.
You know it all starts in thethinking, and drinking or using
(14:55):
or going back to an old behavioris the byproduct of everything
that has already happened priorto that.
So mindfulness is very usefulbecause we can take action
before it's too late, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So yeah, do you want?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
to jump in.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, when you said that in that beginning paragraph
and this jumped out at me andyou were soon to be explaining
it.
This ancient practice, rootedin cultivation of self-awareness
and this is my favorite part sofar teaches us to tune into our
body's language, understandingits signals and messages as we
(15:33):
move towards healing.
So I'm thinking about that insomeone in early recovery or
long-term recovery, to yourpoint that, and I'll ask you, do
you have an example whetherit's for you or some of your
recovery clients that were theirexamples or your example of
what was your body language?
What was the signal for youthat your body was letting you
(15:57):
know, whether it was stress,anxiety or craving?
What was some of that body'slanguage that you were up?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, it is different for different people, but I
think there are also somegeneralization.
When it comes to fear, when itcomes to anxiety or insecurity,
sense of safety, things likethat.
But for craving in particular,for me, in my experience and
people that I've worked with,that the symptom can be noticed
(16:29):
in the breathing, like breathingfaster, or a little bit of
discomfort in the chest or forsome people it's in the stomach,
like some kind of intuitivefeeling, but for me usually at
least, into a relapse eventuallyanyway.
But the sensation in general isa little bit of like some kind
(16:52):
of a tanglement that needs to beuntangled, which also has to do
with the first step of thatfirst foundation, which I'll
share a little bit.
But it comes from that place oflike tightness that there is
something that is beingtightened, you know, and it
needs some release, you know.
So it can be any kind oftension that shows up in the
(17:15):
body.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I know over the years some of my clients they bite
the inside of their cheek or,before their anxiety level got
bad, where they noticed it washigh in anxiety, they might
twirl their hair or just rubtheir hairline and these were
signs that some of the bodylanguage overtly.
(17:41):
And I like your examples too,because it's almost like man if
we're present, with ourbreathing, the cadence, the
feelings, the entanglement, it'san awesome level of mindfulness
and awareness.
It's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And then a big part of recovery too is having the
ability to make choices.
You know that's also it's veryrelated to mindfulness, because
we're able to expand the gapbetween a thought and making a
decision.
You know, being an alcoholic oran addict means that there's
not much of a gap.
I have a thought and I do itright away.
You know there's acompulsiveness, impulsiveness,
(18:22):
but being aware of the bodyreally helps kind of slow down
the process and then doingsomething else as opposed to
things that our brain is wiredto do in addiction.
Also, to expand more on that too, I realized that I used to just
meditate, you know, just withthe mind.
(18:43):
But since I've started doingyoga, I also have this habit of
I do full lotus, you know, crosslike it over time, especially
if it's a long practice.
I self correct by looking atthe mirror in terms of like,
symmetry or alignment, and it'sreally amazing how even a minor
adjustment, like a microadjustment, can have an effect
(19:03):
on the mind, like some kind ofmisalignment, and when it's
corrected to be straight, like,the mind gets affected by it.
It's kind of amazing how mindand body are also connected, you
know.
So I will, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I keep thinking of your gosh.
Each one of these expands intofour more steps for the
teachings.
I can see why.
I can see why.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
So I like to connect the laststep, four step, of that first
foundation with the remainingpart of the writing, which I can
just summarize without havingto read it.
The whole thing is that thefour step is the again, that
ability to make a choice.
So the first two steps isobservation, and then the third
(19:55):
step is sensitizing, like beingin tune with what's actually am
I feeling in these parts of thebody.
And then the fourth step isthat I can use a breath and then
calm the body or release thetension or soften any kind of
tightness, so your body becomeslight, a meditation object that
(20:18):
you can work with in a way.
So that is what it is, but also, at the same time, to connect
with the collective wisdom.
Is that people who are connectedwith meetings and recovery
community really knows this,because the suggestion in the
recovery community, especiallyin 12-step community, they talk
(20:41):
about going to 90 meetings in 90days.
And there's power in that,because when we I guess it's
different during COVID, but whenyou go to a meeting or physical
gathering, it's your physicallybeing there and if you start
paying attention to how you'refeeling in the meeting or in the
(21:02):
group, there's something thatis being communicated.
It's almost like an electricalfield when you walk in, either
as a warmth or there is a senseof safety and something happened
physically in our psyche orsomething happened to our state
of being, and then the more youdo it, the more you get used to
it, and then I guess some kindof transfer of energy to when
(21:26):
you see people who've been soberfor like decades and then you
start kind of getting thatenergy, that vibe from them, and
then it creates room for safetyand then the possibility of
some kind of change.
So that's how I like to connectthe four step of like having
that ability to come and choosenot to drink or use, with the
(21:49):
help of the power of you know,the collective wisdom, or
relying on, or at least beingopen to, some ideas that I
haven't entertained before.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That's great.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, we only scratched thesurface.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
This is good.
Do you have any particularquestions that seem unclear or
something that jumped out to you, Luke?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I think that's a good starting off point, I guess.
What would you tell the?
What would you recommend to thelisteners as you gave them a
taste of that mindfulness ofthat body, that first foundation
?
What are you wanting them totake away or recommending for
(22:35):
someone that just received alittle tidbit from you?
Where can they go with this?
What should they practice intheir recovery practice when it
comes to the mindfulness of thebody, the first foundation?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, great question, and that gives me an
opportunity to express my, youknow, sincere mission, or
genuine mission, is I do believein the innate wisdom, or
intuitive wisdom, or intuitivekindness that is available
within each and every one of us.
So that's why I also am a bigproponent of silent meditation
(23:17):
and stillness.
So one thing that I can share isabout when we spend time with
our body and with our mind in avery intentional and mindful and
kind way, on a consistent basis, we end up becoming a good
friend to ourself, you know,which is a good antidote for,
(23:39):
you know, any kind ofdestructive or any kind of
addictive behavior, which to me,is a form of self abuse.
You know there is an abuse ofthe body or misuse of the
instincts and the body.
So, like getting in tune andbecoming familiar with how our
body responds to differentsituations or different emotions
(23:59):
.
It becomes like something thatyou're working with together,
you know, and the choiceshealthier diet, or healthier
lifestyle, exercising they allcome naturally as we start
listening to the body.
The body knows, you know thebody does a lot of things that
are like beyond our conception,you know, like digestion, or
(24:24):
being able to use water in avery proportional way, or like
minerals, like chemicals and allthese things that are happening
, and it has its ownintelligence going on.
So working together with thatis a great help.
I hope that answers yourquestion, or I hope that's yeah,
that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I want to give, let's say, the listener that either
is trying to get to a rural andearly recovery and they are,
have a craving and they're doingthat.
One of the coping skills inpeople's toolbox that we
recommend is to do a meditation.
(25:07):
Is there something that youwould recommend?
That might be a little bit, Iknow it's not often you go to,
but how would you guide themwhen it comes to the first
foundation with a meditation ifthey have a craving?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, breathing definitely is a good place, but
it can also be a littleoverwhelming for some people.
So any kind of walkingmeditation can be good to being
present with each step.
But if you already have accessto a recovery community, that
can be as simple as a meditationpractice like physically going
(25:47):
to a meeting and then making acommitment to stay for the whole
hour.
But it is meditation becauseyou don't leave you sit there
and there are people around youwhich is keeping you safe, and
that one hour, whether you knowit or not, is meditation.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, that you just saying that reminded me of
almost countless amount ofconversations I've had with
people when I worked attreatment facilities.
And they come into my office andthey have a very strong white
knuckling type of craving and Italk with them for whether it's
(26:25):
five minutes or 15 minutes,maybe 30 max, but usually that
15 minute mark is often thesweet spot and they come into my
office and they're shakingtheir leg and their heads down
and they're up and they're justbreathing hard and the shortness
of breath, but all those thingsand just full blown physical
(26:46):
craving and usually in 15minutes for the people watching
on video, they're back here andI asked them hey, do you notice,
Do you know how relaxed yourbody is?
And it's almost like a wholeshit moment.
That where they came in talkingto me and then a 15 to 30
(27:07):
minute mindful conversation.
I helped them realize wheretheir body is now and bringing
that mindfulness and awarenessto the cravings gone.
And your example of walking toa meeting, feeling your feelings
and feeling your body and ameeting can be a mindfulness
(27:28):
practice.
So thank you for reminding meof that, that it doesn't have to
be this yes, breathe this wayand exhale this no, mindfully
walk to a meeting, and it's it.
Thank you Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, it can just be an incremental collection of
even if it's like 0.001%, ofbelieving that everything's
going to be okay and it adds upand because, as an addict, we
know that when we're in thatwithdrawal place it's like we're
going to die if we don't dothat, we're going to die if we
don't use it.
But as we sit with it werealize that oh, actually I made
(28:07):
it.
So that becomes like a goodmuscle memory for next time and
over the years that's like amuscle that is being practiced,
which can be done.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's awesome.
Thank you, zao.
Thanks for shedding more lighton that to us and for the
listeners out there.
You may have read only 30 or50% of his articles, so if you'd
like to read the full thing,I'll leave a link in the show
notes as well.
As we conclude our explorationwith Zao today, remember that
(28:40):
the transferative power ofmindfulness and the strength
found in a sustainable recoveryplan Carry these insights into
your recovery, cultivatingself-awareness and fostering
connections.
Special thanks to Zao forsharing his wisdom and if you
found this inspirational, pleaselike, comment and or subscribe.
I can't say that enough, soplease do so.
(29:02):
Thank you and Jeff, two.
Healing is ongoing and yourjourney is uniquely yours.
Stay tuned for more enrichingconversations on mindfulness and
recovery.
Be mindful, be present andcontinue your journey toward a
balance and fulfilling life.
My name is Luke, this is Zao,and we'll see you next time.
Thanks, see ya.
Thank you.
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