October 9, 2024 • 32 mins
In Episode 2 of A Way Forward: Conversations on Mental Health, presented by Beem Credit Union, host Jessica Samuels is joined by Mike Gawliuk, CEO of CMHA Kelowna, for a discussion on housing and homelessness. This episode sheds light on the complex web of issues surrounding homelessness and highlights the importance of proactive community support and resources. The discussion examines the many pathways to homelessness, and how experiencing homelessness can significantly impact a person's mental wellness.
Resources and programs that can prevent individuals from becoming homeless, and that can support people to get back into housing are highlighted in this episode.
**Key Topics Discussed:**
- What It Means to Have a Home: The distinction between having a stable home versus temporary shelter, and why a secure place to live is critical to overall well-being.
- Pathways to Homelessness: Exploring the many factors—both individual and societal—that can contribute to housing instability and homelessness, from financial struggles, to personal crises, to mental health challenges.
- Prevention and Early Intervention: Mike shares insights on existing programs and services designed to intervene early, helping to prevent individuals from becoming homeless.
**Resources Mentioned:**
- Central Okanagan Rent Bank (Operated by CMHA Kelowna)
- BC Rent Bank (provincial entity)
- Boys and Girls Club (Shelter Diversion program)
- Metro Shelter Hub
**General Mental Health Resources:**
If you or someone you know is struggling, CMHA Kelowna's Find Help Now page has a list of emergency and non-emergency resources for individuals of any age. CMHA Kelowna - Find Help Now
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Samuels (00:00):
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
episode 2 of a way forwardpresented by Beam Credit Union.
Today, we're talking housing andhomelessness, not only the
individual, but also thesocietal factors that can lead
an individual to experiencingthis. I sit down with CMHA Clona
CEO, Mike Golik. Mike, glad tohave you here today as part of
(00:26):
this discussion.
It's huge. It's complex. Let'sjust say we're not going to get
to all of it. We're going to getto some of it, some key points
and factors. And so we'll diveright in housing, homelessness,
mental health.
I think that we all canunderstand if you don't know
where you're gonna sleep atnight, if you don't have a place
(00:47):
to call home, or you're worriedabout losing that, that's gonna
have a negative impact on yourmental health. And in fact, it's
like a core need of individualshaving housing.
Mike Gawliuk (00:59):
Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, housing is a basic human
need. It goes along with foodand water and Mhmm. Those things
that we ultimately, need tosurvive. It's been shown that
it's a basic social determinantof health.
Without it, people are certainlymore at risk of struggling with
health care concerns, mentalillness, substance use. It's
(01:24):
it's super significant andimportant, important enough that
the federal government in 2019enshrined housing as a human
right. Now there's a lot of workto be done, with that as we're
seeing in communities across thecountry, but there is no doubt
whatsoever that it is essential.And what I would say ultimately
(01:46):
is that that housing is healthcare. Without it, you don't have
as good of a chance of beingwell and being able to take care
of yourself.
Jessica Samuels (01:56):
We'll talk a little bit more about that
because you made two statements.You said without housing, you're
more susceptible to mentalhealth issues, possibly
substance use, some otherthings. And then you just said
housing is health care. Likedraw that, make a more direct
line for for those of us whothat like, that's an interesting
phrase to me.
Mike Gawliuk (02:14):
Well, I mean, again, I think it comes to the
basics. When you have a a roofover your head, when you have
some form of shelter, and youlook at how how say in Kelowna,
the weather from summer towinter, like there's an actual
physical risk. And every winterwe run into this, what are we
going to do? Because that riskbecomes, so significant that
(02:37):
someone, could ultimately passaway from that. I think for a
number of people who have bothmental health and are struggling
with homelessness, there arehealth care concerns that they
have, whether that's primaryhealth care, that ultimately in
the absence of a place to be,they're not going to recover
(03:00):
from.
And so at the end of the day,it's essential. Like it's basic.
Without that, we're
Jessica Samuels (03:08):
nowhere. Well, and I just think about so you're
speaking from the healthcarepiece, but without an address,
you can't get a job. You can'tget like there's also some
foundational elements of ofthriving and surviving and and
getting ahead, in our communitythat are associated with having
a home. Yeah. So what is a homethen?
Let's define that to thathousing idea.
Mike Gawliuk (03:30):
Well, and I'm gonna I'm gonna Okay. At one
point put this back to you, butI would say first of all, a home
is something everybody mightdefine differently.
Jessica Samuels (03:38):
Okay.
Mike Gawliuk (03:39):
I can say for me what home is, it's about,
safety. It's about stability.It's about family. It's about
connection. It's it's stability.
Yeah. I know it's here today,here tomorrow. So for me, that's
what home, when I think of itis. For you, it might be a
(04:01):
different response. What doeshome look like for you?
Jessica Samuels (04:05):
Yeah. That really resonates with me. I
mean, home is trying not tosound like I'm a slogan or
anything like that, but home iswhere the the family is. And I
but I think when when I think ofwhat family represents to me, it
is security. And family is myhusband, my dog, a place where I
can entertain.
But also, like, there'ssomething about that act of,
(04:26):
like, locking the door and goingand getting in my bed and having
the peace of mind that I amgonna be okay, and I'm gonna
wake up in the morning. And andI I think that is what home is
to me. I don't have to own it. Iactually only became a
(04:46):
homeowner, like 5 years ago. Butit's that sense of a place to
call my own.
Mike Gawliuk (04:54):
Well, and I think the other part of it, I think
when we talk about, like,shelter or housing, we talk
about built structures. Homelooks very different than 4
walls and a roof. And I thinkthat's important to consider
when we talk about this topic ofof of housing and homelessness
(05:15):
because it's not justhouselessness. Right? And home
means different things todifferent people.
Jessica Samuels (05:20):
Okay. And and then just to throw one more at
you then. So are you saying thatsomething that might be
categorized as shelter could infact be to that individual their
home?
Mike Gawliuk (05:40):
I think it could be.
Jessica Samuels (05:41):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (05:41):
I mean, I think when we look at shelter, in
particular the emergencyshelter, what it was designed
for, was an emergency response.Okay. It was a place for people
to go when they had nowhere elseto go and to move, move forward
and find stability in a shortperiod of time. Mhmm. I mean, I
(06:02):
think we've seen, over the pastnumber of years that, the
intended purpose of short stayin an emergency shelter has
shifted dramatically.
And so when you see people thatare there for extended periods
of time, it can become home tothem, whether that's connection
(06:23):
to staff or or other residents.It's possible. But I would say
it's also part of the challengebecause that's not what it's not
what it was designed for. Andit's something that we have to
continue to work towards toensure that we get to that place
where shelter is just that, anemergency response and not a
place that somebody lives or, isthere for an extended period of
(06:46):
time.
Jessica Samuels (06:47):
Right. And I'm not trying to belabor this point
too much, but I think, just intheir first part of your
response when you're saying thedefinition means different
things to different people. Andone of the things I know, that
I've learned, you know, mightsome people might not know, but,
not a surprise to many of thelisteners is I worked for CMHA
Kelowna for quite some time andreally seeing the human factor
(07:11):
of homelessness. And and, youdon't always have opportunity to
do that. You see it as anentity, tents on rail trails and
and what that may mean for you,but there's humans in there.
So just taking a moment to torecognize that there's humans,
and perhaps this is not theirideal situation. They didn't
wake up today and say, you knowwhat I wanna be? I wanna be
(07:33):
homeless, but they might bemaking the best of the current
situation.
Mike Gawliuk (07:38):
Today or any day. I mean, over the course of my
career, I have never met anybodythat said to me, their goal when
they they grew up was was to behomeless. Mhmm. That's simply
not a reality. And I think yourpoint is is well taken.
And as we really grapple withthese issues, and and there's
(07:59):
significant challenges wherethere's a number of things that
are bumping up against eachother. You know, certainly the
the drug the drug crisis, publicsafety, all those pieces. I
think it's harder to see thehumanity in that when it gets to
a level of frustration, and wedon't believe that things are
getting better or they'reworking. But I can tell you that
(08:21):
for every person who's outthere, everybody has a story and
everybody has a reason whythey're there. And I can think
of things as, you know, from,somebody who we worked with who
was a very successful businessowner and then, lost his wife
and and, and children in a caraccident.
(08:44):
And that was the factor thatflipped the switch for him. And
he he dove deeply into substanceuse to to to sort of try to numb
himself. And ultimately, it ledto the to him ending up
homeless. So behind each one ofthose, tents, behind each one of
those shopping carts, there arereal people with real stories.
(09:07):
And your point is absolutelyright.
It's easy to see a group andmake assumptions, but I think,
we can never lose the human sideof this issue.
Jessica Samuels (09:16):
Yeah. So important. You touched upon
something there, about thatindividual story. We talk about
there are many differentpathways to homelessness, and
maybe in a little bit, we'llwe'll get to that. What I've
been calling we've been callingthe chicken egg scenario.
So what role does mental healthand or substance use play in
(09:37):
either, in in an individual'shomelessness? So before or
after. But before we do that, sothen we had a discussion about
housing and shelter. So how arewe defining homeless? An
individual who's experiencinghomeless for the and and I think
that from a service provider,perspective, I think is
important, to to note here.
Mike Gawliuk (09:57):
Yeah. I mean, when I look at sort of the Canadian
definition of homelessness, andthis comes from the Canadian
Observatory on homelessness, itis a situation of an individual
or family without stable, safe,permanent, appropriate housing,
or the immediate prospect meansand ability of acquiring it.
Jessica Samuels (10:18):
Sable, stable, safe, permanent. Mhmm. That's
another thing that I forgot inmy definition.
Mike Gawliuk (10:24):
Sounds like home.
Jessica Samuels (10:24):
Yeah. Driving to the place that I know is
going to be there and will bethere tomorrow and the day after
and the day day after. Okay. Sothat's the definition of
homeless, and that resonateswell with what we've been
talking about so far. Let's talkabout the pathways to
homelessness and let's get backto that chicken and egg scenario
of so I have a belief that someof the some people as they're
(10:49):
looking at, the rail trail ortents in any I mean, in Kelowna,
we say the rail trail, but it'sit's really any community, in
North America and well beyondand across Canada, and see it as
a homogeneous group.
Tense. They're in our way. Thisisn't right. Let's get them out
of here. Recognizing as wellthat it is the municipality's
(11:12):
responsibility to provide accessto shelter as you defined, in
the if there's not anopportunity for housing.
So if they can't put them inmarket housing, then I mean,
municipality's responsibility isto provide like, an encampment.
That's that's kind of an idea.Not an idea. It is the
responsibility of amunicipality. So knowing that
(11:34):
that's not there necessarilybecause of punch people decided
to wake up in the morning and gotent on the rail trail.
What is the chicken and egg?What came first? And what are
the pathways when you considermental health and substance use
for people who are experiencinghomelessness?
Mike Gawliuk (11:55):
Well, I think I mean, there's really two sides
to that coin. The first thefirst side to that coin, and I
think there can be assumptionsthat are made that when you see
someone who's on the rail trailand maybe they're significantly
impacted by substances, theassumption that goes there on
the rail trail because ofsubstances. But when it comes to
(12:16):
mental health, when it comes tosubstance use, the reality is
that someone who lives with amental illness has a greater
chance of ending up homeless.There's really three factors for
that. One of the driving factorsthat you can't avoid in this
whole issue is poverty.
(12:38):
People with mental illnessdiagnosed tend to experience
poverty at higher rates.Secondly, social disconnection.
Then thirdly, increasedvulnerability. So there are
circumstances whereby, peoplethat have a mental illness, may
end up experiencinghomelessness. On the other side
(13:02):
of the coin, and I was involvedin a in a youth study a number
of years ago across Canada,where they talk to young people
who were experiencinghomelessness.
And one of the key themes thatcame out of this and it's not
that hard to understand is thatsome people develop a mental
illness. Some people, become,more involved with substances
(13:27):
due to the reality of the day today. Right? Being able to being
able to cope in some ways again,like I talked about that
individual being able to sort ofjust try and numb yourself out
from the fact that it isn'talways, a great situation. And
certainly, there's trauma thatcan happen.
(13:49):
There's lots of issues that cantake place while you're out
there. So for some people, thatmight be what leads them to the
experience of homelessness. Forother people, that might mean
that when they first end uphomeless, they develop issues
and concerns as a means oftrying to cope with, the
challenges of being outside.
Jessica Samuels (14:10):
Right. And I would presume that there are
some folks who are homeless whohave neither.
Mike Gawliuk (14:18):
Well and I think this is this is the reality. I
think if you say, not everybodywith a mental illness is
homeless and not everybody who'shomeless has a mental illness.
Mhmm. I I think I think it'sit's sort of easy to put people
into a certain basket, but evenwe talked about earlier when it
comes to the drug poisoningcrisis, like what you see
(14:43):
becomes reality. Yet we know, inin British Columbia, some of the
stats are very clear in terms ofwho's been most impacted by the
drug poisoning crisis.
And that's 30 to 50 year oldmales who end up overdosing and
dying in their own home.
Jessica Samuels (15:01):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (15:02):
So it's not a it's not a scenario where Right.
Like, it's it's just one oneperson and this is the path and
this is what it looks like.Again, we're talking about human
beings, human condition, andeverybody is different.
Jessica Samuels (15:17):
Mhmm. And sometimes folks who are you who
are using substances in theirown home as opposed to perhaps
someone who is using substancesin a shelter and encampment, are
looked upon differently. Andlet's be honest, are addressed
differently not only as asocietal aspect but within our
our health care system andacross the the various
(15:38):
organizations that serve thatpopulation.
Mike Gawliuk (15:40):
Oh, for sure. 100%. There's a certain, level
of inequity that exists when welook at access to health care,
substance use services. There'sno doubt about that.
Jessica Samuels (15:52):
Okay. So we talked about some of the
individual factors that can leadto an in person being without
housing housing or beinghomeless. There's also some
pretty heavy duty societalfactors that are at play here.
Mike Gawliuk (16:05):
Yeah. I mean, again, to reiterate reiterate,
like, poverty is a huge driverof homelessness. And as we've
seen, ultimately, and it's beenexacerbated after the pandemic,
is is rents gone up. Right? Itit costs more to live.
(16:29):
Those that don't have, access tonecessary income are at
significant risk of, fallinginto homelessness. The
availability of affordablehousing, You know, it's taken a
long time to get to this place.Mhmm. And there are certainly
(16:49):
lots of efforts being made atthis point in time to catch up
and in terms of building, moreaffordable housing for people.
But that's ultimately going totake time.
It doesn't just happenovernight. There are some
bright, brighter signs as wetalked about earlier today, you
know, Kelowna in terms ofdevelopments and the number of
(17:11):
rentals that are coming onlineis going to have a direct impact
on the vacancy rate, which willput some pressure on, rentals
going down.
Jessica Samuels (17:21):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (17:22):
I think other, you know, factors that, are
societal, certainly employmentand unemployment play into that.
There's no doubt, transitionsfrom specific, institutions. So
for example, transitions fromhospital transitions from,
(17:43):
criminal justice, systemtransitions of youth from the
child welfare system. Those areall points of like vulnerability
that are systemic fact factorsactually that place people more
at risk of ending up, homeless.So, there's a number of factors
that are outside of theindividual control of any one
(18:05):
person.
I think there's a mindset thathas existed over the course of
time too that, you know, one ofthe approaches to addressing
this issue is just, you know,pull up your bootstraps, which
may be easy to do, but how doyou do that when you don't have
a pair of boots? Mhmm. Right?So, that doesn't that doesn't
wash, anymore. And, and I thinkit's important to to understand
(18:28):
all of those realities and theinterplay that goes on between
them.
It certainly can feel a littlediscouraging because, like, what
can we do about that? Like, whatpossibly can we could we do to
change this? Right?
Jessica Samuels (18:40):
I actually have that for a question for you
later on. So just, you know,prepare your answer if you can.
But, you know, and and a littlebit of levity for a serious
situation, but because it's likeit feels impossible. So, before
we get to that, you were talkingabout that transitional housing.
And to me, that really playsinto that affordable housing
(19:01):
piece because, you know, I'msure your favorite line and my
favorite line for years isaffordable for whom?
Because when we talk about, theaverage cost of, of living in
Kelowna or anywhere right nowversus wages versus all of those
things, I mean, in terms of theaverage median household that,
(19:25):
folks have to have in order tobe able to afford a home and
afford all the other things andand, you know, cost of living is
is is another episode for ustoo. But affordable is is quite
a broad range. And so in thisinstance, when I hear you say
affordable, but then when you'realso talking about transitional
housing, that, you know, I guessI guess to put it directly,
(19:48):
that's lower down on theaffordability scale. I don't
mean lower priority. I mean, ithas to be really affordable.
So the rents and everything arereally affordable in order to
really impact the community.
Mike Gawliuk (20:00):
Yeah. You mean absolutely. And there's there's
market forces that are at playand then there's ultimately, you
know, issues related to, publicpolicy and and decisions that
government can make. I I willsay there are some things that
are happening in BritishColumbia are pretty unique and
somewhat innovative. There's therental protection fund that was
(20:25):
launched.
Yep. And the idea there was fornon profits to acquire buildings
that, are vulnerable torenovation, in the sense that
there may be buildings that arebuilt in the sixties, seventies.
Rents are at a lower rate, andand nonprofits can pick them up
(20:48):
as resources as a way to sustainthat affordability. And then,
ultimately, down the road,redevelop to ensure that you
could potentially have higherdensity and keep it at an
affordable rate as well. Sothat's that's a major piece of
the work that's been done.
There's been investments in thecommunity housing fund, which is
designed to build affordablehousing, for various groups and
(21:13):
and is certainly rolling outacross across the community and
it's and it's initiatives likethat. I think the reality is at
his heart, like I say, whereit's a financial issue, I think
there are some people that wework with that simply need an
economic intervention. And thatlooks like affordable housing.
(21:35):
That might look like a rentsupplement, in order for them
to, either prevent or end theirexperience of homelessness. And
then there's others whocertainly have poverty as an
issue.
And then on top of that areexperiencing other other
considerations. So that's wheremental illness comes in. That's
where substance misuse comes in.And I think the thing that we're
(21:58):
seeing currently at this moment,that's really showing up, is the
issue of how, you know, now sortof 8 years down the road with
this drug poisoning crisis, theother, outcome that we're seeing
is the increase of acquiredbrain injury in people and what
ultimately, what impact thatthat has. And that speaks to,
(22:20):
what kind of responses we needto address that.
And that goes far beyond simplyan economic intervention. That
goes to significant, wraparoundsupports and different types of
care for, people that arestruggling with those issues.
Jessica Samuels (22:35):
So what's the correlation between the drug
poisoning crisis and theacquired brain injury?
Mike Gawliuk (22:41):
So again, this has been going on for a period of
time, and there are people whohave overdosed and been brought
back. There are some who haveoverdosed multiple times and
been brought back. In somecases, when they're overdosing,
ultimately, the oxygen is cutoff to the brain and they can be
down for an extended period oftime. They may experience
(23:04):
multiple overdoses. But thereality is that without oxygen
to your brain, there's gonna besome damage that happens.
Jessica Samuels (23:13):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (23:14):
And I think I think that's now, as we've kinda
gone down field a little bit isone of the things that we're
seeing show up more, than it mayhave ultimately, you know, 5 or
6 years ago.
Jessica Samuels (23:26):
Okay. Right. Once again, many pathways to
homelessness and it's it's not aa set group where economic
intervention, medicalintervention, plus all of other
things that we didn't we didn'tdelve too much into. There's
also all kinds of groups.There's youth and and perhaps,
vulnerable groups that arefleeing difficult situations, in
(23:48):
existing homes, whether it'stheir their parents or
caregivers, whether it's their,spouses or partners and all of
that.
And so this is a population ofhidden homeless that perhaps are
sleeping on a friend's couch andjust trying to navigate other
crises in their life, as they'vehad to give up their homes.
Mike Gawliuk (24:08):
Yeah. I mean, ultimately, there are groups
that are more more vulnerable toexperiencing homelessness. One
of those groups is indigenouspeople. One of those groups is
LGBTQ2SI, individuals. And then,youth, as well are population
that's at significant risk.
(24:29):
In fact, 40% of people that endup experiencing homelessness
experience that before the ageof 16. Then we look at
racialized communities and thoseare also higher risk for
homelessness, across thiscountry.
Jessica Samuels (24:47):
We have established that there is a
housing, a homelessness crisisin our community. We've talked
about the drug overdose crisisand then the other impacting
factors and the many paths tohomelessness. You talked about
some interventions. And, we knowin in the mental health and
health community, earlyintervention when addressing
(25:08):
those factors are key. Whatwould be some ways to some
additional ways to addresshousing precarity?
Let's talk about that.
Mike Gawliuk (25:20):
Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (25:21):
Because there are some things a little further
upstream that if you're an anindividual who is nervous and
you're making these choicesbetween groceries, gas, car
payment, or not even bus fareand rent, What are some ways
that these can be addressed?
Mike Gawliuk (25:39):
Yeah. I think there's multiple ways. And
before I jump into those thoseelements, I also want to say
that we have to be careful inaddressing these issues that
we're not just looking for asilver bullet. Mhmm. Because the
reality is, there is no silverbullet.
(25:59):
And so it it takes a an approachthat's gonna it's gonna involve
housing. It's going to involvehealth care. It's going to
involve multiple sectors. So Ijust I just want to say that
because I think, sort of wherewe are currently, everybody is
looking for a silver bullet.We're looking for the thing that
is going to fix things.
There is no one thing. Now totie it into to your question, we
(26:24):
can intervene after the factwhen somebody has experienced,
homelessness, or we can try toprevent them from ending up
there in the first place. Thathas significant economic impact
as well as, major social impact.So certainly one example of that
(26:44):
is a program that we run,through CMHA, which is called
the Central Okanagan Rent Bank.And that program, has been
established for those peoplethat are really one paycheck
away from losing their home.
Last year, we had 511 peopleapply to Rent Bank for a loan,
(27:07):
loan grant combo or a grant. Wewere able to approve 259 people
to to be approved for that. Thatincludes, 80 children. And so
the number of families that havecome forward looking for
assistance is important. Thereality is, this is a needed
(27:29):
investment.
And for $1500 one time, ifsomeone's having a struggle with
employment or health, or maybethey're going through a
relationship, breakup. Andthat's the thing that can make
the difference between themkeeping the roof that they have
over their head or ending uphomeless. That is that is a wise
(27:49):
investment. I think, you know,across the community, we're
seeing different initiativesthat are focused around
prevention and diversion. One ofthe organizations, to do that is
certainly in the youth world isBGCO.
So Boys and Girls Club, theystarted a shelter diversion
program years ago. The goal wasto do whatever they could to
(28:13):
prevent someone from ending upin shelter, because we know for
young people that if they're inshelter, their risk level goes
up. So diverting them fromshelter or from the streets, and
oftentimes that can then looklike trying to engage them with
family or another option to to,try to ensure some stability and
(28:33):
prevent them from, going wherethey could go. And then I think
one that's recent, and, youknow, give full credit to Metro
as the host is a shelter hub,which is kind of the adult
version of what, BGCO has doneso that people can come in
(28:54):
before accessing shelter orexperiencing homelessness and
with the support oforganizations, and it's led by
Turning Points. We're a partnerin it as well as others.
Again, trying to divert peoplefrom ending up in shelter or on
the streets. And that mightmean, assisting with returning
(29:15):
to a home community and gettingreconnected with family. It can
look like different things, butthe goal ultimately is kind of
to try to turn the tap down alittle bit, so that there's less
people ending up out there, andmore people with a roof over
their head.
Jessica Samuels (29:32):
Great organizations that you
mentioned. Some of them arespecific here local to Kelowna.
Some of these, like BGC, you'llfind in other communities across
BC as well. And so folks cancheck out the programs that they
provide, in their specific totheir community. The one I do
wanna mention though is RentBank is a provincial entity, and
(29:52):
so it is run by, variousorganizations in the community.
So here, like as you mentionedfor the central Okanagan is
CMHA. So if there's folks whoare listening, who are outside
of Kelowna or the centralOkanagan, then really BC Rent
Bank and and and find the onethat's closest to you. And the
great thing about Rent Bank aswell is that the process to pay
back, it's a micro loan, andthere is some financial
(30:13):
literacy, embedded within theservices.
Mike Gawliuk (30:17):
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, Rent Bank sort of
started in the the lowermainland, with the support of
the Vancity Foundation and thenexpanded. And, now there's 18,
Rent Banks across BritishColumbia. And, certainly, as
time has gone on, there's becomemore financial support from, the
(30:40):
provincial government while aswell with the recognition and
acknowledgment that a little bitof investment now is way is
significant compared to how muchyou'd have to spend down the
road, trying to address theissue of homelessness.
Jessica Samuels (30:56):
Mike, thank you so much for having this
conversation with me today. It'sit's huge as complex as we set
off the top, but I so appreciateyour time. I appreciate our
sponsor, Being Credit Union, forallowing these conversations to
be possible. And one of the keyfactors is that you talked about
a lot of the resources, and wewill be including those in the
show notes so people can referback to them. But really, thank
(31:18):
you so much for being here.
Mike Gawliuk (31:20):
Thank you. And thanks to Beam. I mean,
ultimately, there are resourcesout there that people can get
access to. And certainly,hopefully, one of the things we
can do by having theseconversations is increase the
level of awareness about whereto turn when you're facing, some
challenges.
Jessica Samuels (31:36):
Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of
communities all across BC withover 50 branches and insurance
offices dedicated to supportingyour financial journey. Beam
understands financial wellnessmeans something different to
everyone, and they're here tohelp you achieve your unique
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big step, or just looking forpeace of mind, Beam Credit Union
(31:58):
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Union.
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
episode 2 of a way forwardpresented by Beam Credit Union.
Today, we're talking housing andhomelessness, not only the
individual, but also thesocietal factors that can lead
an individual to experiencingthis. I sit down with CMHA Clona
CEO, Mike Golik. Mike, glad tohave you here today as part of
(00:26):
this discussion.
It's huge. It's complex. Let'sjust say we're not going to get
to all of it. We're going to getto some of it, some key points
and factors. And so we'll diveright in housing, homelessness,
mental health.
I think that we all canunderstand if you don't know
where you're gonna sleep atnight, if you don't have a place
(00:47):
to call home, or you're worriedabout losing that, that's gonna
have a negative impact on yourmental health. And in fact, it's
like a core need of individualshaving housing.
Mike Gawliuk (00:59):
Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, housing is a basic human
need. It goes along with foodand water and Mhmm. Those things
that we ultimately, need tosurvive. It's been shown that
it's a basic social determinantof health.
Without it, people are certainlymore at risk of struggling with
health care concerns, mentalillness, substance use. It's
(01:24):
it's super significant andimportant, important enough that
the federal government in 2019enshrined housing as a human
right. Now there's a lot of workto be done, with that as we're
seeing in communities across thecountry, but there is no doubt
whatsoever that it is essential.And what I would say ultimately
(01:46):
is that that housing is healthcare. Without it, you don't have
as good of a chance of beingwell and being able to take care
of yourself.
Jessica Samuels (01:56):
We'll talk a little bit more about that
because you made two statements.You said without housing, you're
more susceptible to mentalhealth issues, possibly
substance use, some otherthings. And then you just said
housing is health care. Likedraw that, make a more direct
line for for those of us whothat like, that's an interesting
phrase to me.
Mike Gawliuk (02:14):
Well, I mean, again, I think it comes to the
basics. When you have a a roofover your head, when you have
some form of shelter, and youlook at how how say in Kelowna,
the weather from summer towinter, like there's an actual
physical risk. And every winterwe run into this, what are we
going to do? Because that riskbecomes, so significant that
(02:37):
someone, could ultimately passaway from that. I think for a
number of people who have bothmental health and are struggling
with homelessness, there arehealth care concerns that they
have, whether that's primaryhealth care, that ultimately in
the absence of a place to be,they're not going to recover
(03:00):
from.
And so at the end of the day,it's essential. Like it's basic.
Without that, we're
Jessica Samuels (03:08):
nowhere. Well, and I just think about so you're
speaking from the healthcarepiece, but without an address,
you can't get a job. You can'tget like there's also some
foundational elements of ofthriving and surviving and and
getting ahead, in our communitythat are associated with having
a home. Yeah. So what is a homethen?
Let's define that to thathousing idea.
Mike Gawliuk (03:30):
Well, and I'm gonna I'm gonna Okay. At one
point put this back to you, butI would say first of all, a home
is something everybody mightdefine differently.
Jessica Samuels (03:38):
Okay.
Mike Gawliuk (03:39):
I can say for me what home is, it's about,
safety. It's about stability.It's about family. It's about
connection. It's it's stability.
Yeah. I know it's here today,here tomorrow. So for me, that's
what home, when I think of itis. For you, it might be a
(04:01):
different response. What doeshome look like for you?
Jessica Samuels (04:05):
Yeah. That really resonates with me. I
mean, home is trying not tosound like I'm a slogan or
anything like that, but home iswhere the the family is. And I
but I think when when I think ofwhat family represents to me, it
is security. And family is myhusband, my dog, a place where I
can entertain.
But also, like, there'ssomething about that act of,
(04:26):
like, locking the door and goingand getting in my bed and having
the peace of mind that I amgonna be okay, and I'm gonna
wake up in the morning. And andI I think that is what home is
to me. I don't have to own it. Iactually only became a
(04:46):
homeowner, like 5 years ago. Butit's that sense of a place to
call my own.
Mike Gawliuk (04:54):
Well, and I think the other part of it, I think
when we talk about, like,shelter or housing, we talk
about built structures. Homelooks very different than 4
walls and a roof. And I thinkthat's important to consider
when we talk about this topic ofof of housing and homelessness
(05:15):
because it's not justhouselessness. Right? And home
means different things todifferent people.
Jessica Samuels (05:20):
Okay. And and then just to throw one more at
you then. So are you saying thatsomething that might be
categorized as shelter could infact be to that individual their
home?
Mike Gawliuk (05:40):
I think it could be.
Jessica Samuels (05:41):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (05:41):
I mean, I think when we look at shelter, in
particular the emergencyshelter, what it was designed
for, was an emergency response.Okay. It was a place for people
to go when they had nowhere elseto go and to move, move forward
and find stability in a shortperiod of time. Mhmm. I mean, I
(06:02):
think we've seen, over the pastnumber of years that, the
intended purpose of short stayin an emergency shelter has
shifted dramatically.
And so when you see people thatare there for extended periods
of time, it can become home tothem, whether that's connection
(06:23):
to staff or or other residents.It's possible. But I would say
it's also part of the challengebecause that's not what it's not
what it was designed for. Andit's something that we have to
continue to work towards toensure that we get to that place
where shelter is just that, anemergency response and not a
place that somebody lives or, isthere for an extended period of
(06:46):
time.
Jessica Samuels (06:47):
Right. And I'm not trying to belabor this point
too much, but I think, just intheir first part of your
response when you're saying thedefinition means different
things to different people. Andone of the things I know, that
I've learned, you know, mightsome people might not know, but,
not a surprise to many of thelisteners is I worked for CMHA
Kelowna for quite some time andreally seeing the human factor
(07:11):
of homelessness. And and, youdon't always have opportunity to
do that. You see it as anentity, tents on rail trails and
and what that may mean for you,but there's humans in there.
So just taking a moment to torecognize that there's humans,
and perhaps this is not theirideal situation. They didn't
wake up today and say, you knowwhat I wanna be? I wanna be
(07:33):
homeless, but they might bemaking the best of the current
situation.
Mike Gawliuk (07:38):
Today or any day. I mean, over the course of my
career, I have never met anybodythat said to me, their goal when
they they grew up was was to behomeless. Mhmm. That's simply
not a reality. And I think yourpoint is is well taken.
And as we really grapple withthese issues, and and there's
(07:59):
significant challenges wherethere's a number of things that
are bumping up against eachother. You know, certainly the
the drug the drug crisis, publicsafety, all those pieces. I
think it's harder to see thehumanity in that when it gets to
a level of frustration, and wedon't believe that things are
getting better or they'reworking. But I can tell you that
(08:21):
for every person who's outthere, everybody has a story and
everybody has a reason whythey're there. And I can think
of things as, you know, from,somebody who we worked with who
was a very successful businessowner and then, lost his wife
and and, and children in a caraccident.
(08:44):
And that was the factor thatflipped the switch for him. And
he he dove deeply into substanceuse to to to sort of try to numb
himself. And ultimately, it ledto the to him ending up
homeless. So behind each one ofthose, tents, behind each one of
those shopping carts, there arereal people with real stories.
(09:07):
And your point is absolutelyright.
It's easy to see a group andmake assumptions, but I think,
we can never lose the human sideof this issue.
Jessica Samuels (09:16):
Yeah. So important. You touched upon
something there, about thatindividual story. We talk about
there are many differentpathways to homelessness, and
maybe in a little bit, we'llwe'll get to that. What I've
been calling we've been callingthe chicken egg scenario.
So what role does mental healthand or substance use play in
(09:37):
either, in in an individual'shomelessness? So before or
after. But before we do that, sothen we had a discussion about
housing and shelter. So how arewe defining homeless? An
individual who's experiencinghomeless for the and and I think
that from a service provider,perspective, I think is
important, to to note here.
Mike Gawliuk (09:57):
Yeah. I mean, when I look at sort of the Canadian
definition of homelessness, andthis comes from the Canadian
Observatory on homelessness, itis a situation of an individual
or family without stable, safe,permanent, appropriate housing,
or the immediate prospect meansand ability of acquiring it.
Jessica Samuels (10:18):
Sable, stable, safe, permanent. Mhmm. That's
another thing that I forgot inmy definition.
Mike Gawliuk (10:24):
Sounds like home.
Jessica Samuels (10:24):
Yeah. Driving to the place that I know is
going to be there and will bethere tomorrow and the day after
and the day day after. Okay. Sothat's the definition of
homeless, and that resonateswell with what we've been
talking about so far. Let's talkabout the pathways to
homelessness and let's get backto that chicken and egg scenario
of so I have a belief that someof the some people as they're
(10:49):
looking at, the rail trail ortents in any I mean, in Kelowna,
we say the rail trail, but it'sit's really any community, in
North America and well beyondand across Canada, and see it as
a homogeneous group.
Tense. They're in our way. Thisisn't right. Let's get them out
of here. Recognizing as wellthat it is the municipality's
(11:12):
responsibility to provide accessto shelter as you defined, in
the if there's not anopportunity for housing.
So if they can't put them inmarket housing, then I mean,
municipality's responsibility isto provide like, an encampment.
That's that's kind of an idea.Not an idea. It is the
responsibility of amunicipality. So knowing that
(11:34):
that's not there necessarilybecause of punch people decided
to wake up in the morning and gotent on the rail trail.
What is the chicken and egg?What came first? And what are
the pathways when you considermental health and substance use
for people who are experiencinghomelessness?
Mike Gawliuk (11:55):
Well, I think I mean, there's really two sides
to that coin. The first thefirst side to that coin, and I
think there can be assumptionsthat are made that when you see
someone who's on the rail trailand maybe they're significantly
impacted by substances, theassumption that goes there on
the rail trail because ofsubstances. But when it comes to
(12:16):
mental health, when it comes tosubstance use, the reality is
that someone who lives with amental illness has a greater
chance of ending up homeless.There's really three factors for
that. One of the driving factorsthat you can't avoid in this
whole issue is poverty.
(12:38):
People with mental illnessdiagnosed tend to experience
poverty at higher rates.Secondly, social disconnection.
Then thirdly, increasedvulnerability. So there are
circumstances whereby, peoplethat have a mental illness, may
end up experiencinghomelessness. On the other side
(13:02):
of the coin, and I was involvedin a in a youth study a number
of years ago across Canada,where they talk to young people
who were experiencinghomelessness.
And one of the key themes thatcame out of this and it's not
that hard to understand is thatsome people develop a mental
illness. Some people, become,more involved with substances
(13:27):
due to the reality of the day today. Right? Being able to being
able to cope in some ways again,like I talked about that
individual being able to sort ofjust try and numb yourself out
from the fact that it isn'talways, a great situation. And
certainly, there's trauma thatcan happen.
(13:49):
There's lots of issues that cantake place while you're out
there. So for some people, thatmight be what leads them to the
experience of homelessness. Forother people, that might mean
that when they first end uphomeless, they develop issues
and concerns as a means oftrying to cope with, the
challenges of being outside.
Jessica Samuels (14:10):
Right. And I would presume that there are
some folks who are homeless whohave neither.
Mike Gawliuk (14:18):
Well and I think this is this is the reality. I
think if you say, not everybodywith a mental illness is
homeless and not everybody who'shomeless has a mental illness.
Mhmm. I I think I think it'sit's sort of easy to put people
into a certain basket, but evenwe talked about earlier when it
comes to the drug poisoningcrisis, like what you see
(14:43):
becomes reality. Yet we know, inin British Columbia, some of the
stats are very clear in terms ofwho's been most impacted by the
drug poisoning crisis.
And that's 30 to 50 year oldmales who end up overdosing and
dying in their own home.
Jessica Samuels (15:01):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (15:02):
So it's not a it's not a scenario where Right.
Like, it's it's just one oneperson and this is the path and
this is what it looks like.Again, we're talking about human
beings, human condition, andeverybody is different.
Jessica Samuels (15:17):
Mhmm. And sometimes folks who are you who
are using substances in theirown home as opposed to perhaps
someone who is using substancesin a shelter and encampment, are
looked upon differently. Andlet's be honest, are addressed
differently not only as asocietal aspect but within our
our health care system andacross the the various
(15:38):
organizations that serve thatpopulation.
Mike Gawliuk (15:40):
Oh, for sure. 100%. There's a certain, level
of inequity that exists when welook at access to health care,
substance use services. There'sno doubt about that.
Jessica Samuels (15:52):
Okay. So we talked about some of the
individual factors that can leadto an in person being without
housing housing or beinghomeless. There's also some
pretty heavy duty societalfactors that are at play here.
Mike Gawliuk (16:05):
Yeah. I mean, again, to reiterate reiterate,
like, poverty is a huge driverof homelessness. And as we've
seen, ultimately, and it's beenexacerbated after the pandemic,
is is rents gone up. Right? Itit costs more to live.
(16:29):
Those that don't have, access tonecessary income are at
significant risk of, fallinginto homelessness. The
availability of affordablehousing, You know, it's taken a
long time to get to this place.Mhmm. And there are certainly
(16:49):
lots of efforts being made atthis point in time to catch up
and in terms of building, moreaffordable housing for people.
But that's ultimately going totake time.
It doesn't just happenovernight. There are some
bright, brighter signs as wetalked about earlier today, you
know, Kelowna in terms ofdevelopments and the number of
(17:11):
rentals that are coming onlineis going to have a direct impact
on the vacancy rate, which willput some pressure on, rentals
going down.
Jessica Samuels (17:21):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (17:22):
I think other, you know, factors that, are
societal, certainly employmentand unemployment play into that.
There's no doubt, transitionsfrom specific, institutions. So
for example, transitions fromhospital transitions from,
(17:43):
criminal justice, systemtransitions of youth from the
child welfare system. Those areall points of like vulnerability
that are systemic fact factorsactually that place people more
at risk of ending up, homeless.So, there's a number of factors
that are outside of theindividual control of any one
(18:05):
person.
I think there's a mindset thathas existed over the course of
time too that, you know, one ofthe approaches to addressing
this issue is just, you know,pull up your bootstraps, which
may be easy to do, but how doyou do that when you don't have
a pair of boots? Mhmm. Right?So, that doesn't that doesn't
wash, anymore. And, and I thinkit's important to to understand
(18:28):
all of those realities and theinterplay that goes on between
them.
It certainly can feel a littlediscouraging because, like, what
can we do about that? Like, whatpossibly can we could we do to
change this? Right?
Jessica Samuels (18:40):
I actually have that for a question for you
later on. So just, you know,prepare your answer if you can.
But, you know, and and a littlebit of levity for a serious
situation, but because it's likeit feels impossible. So, before
we get to that, you were talkingabout that transitional housing.
And to me, that really playsinto that affordable housing
(19:01):
piece because, you know, I'msure your favorite line and my
favorite line for years isaffordable for whom?
Because when we talk about, theaverage cost of, of living in
Kelowna or anywhere right nowversus wages versus all of those
things, I mean, in terms of theaverage median household that,
(19:25):
folks have to have in order tobe able to afford a home and
afford all the other things andand, you know, cost of living is
is is another episode for ustoo. But affordable is is quite
a broad range. And so in thisinstance, when I hear you say
affordable, but then when you'realso talking about transitional
housing, that, you know, I guessI guess to put it directly,
(19:48):
that's lower down on theaffordability scale. I don't
mean lower priority. I mean, ithas to be really affordable.
So the rents and everything arereally affordable in order to
really impact the community.
Mike Gawliuk (20:00):
Yeah. You mean absolutely. And there's there's
market forces that are at playand then there's ultimately, you
know, issues related to, publicpolicy and and decisions that
government can make. I I willsay there are some things that
are happening in BritishColumbia are pretty unique and
somewhat innovative. There's therental protection fund that was
(20:25):
launched.
Yep. And the idea there was fornon profits to acquire buildings
that, are vulnerable torenovation, in the sense that
there may be buildings that arebuilt in the sixties, seventies.
Rents are at a lower rate, andand nonprofits can pick them up
(20:48):
as resources as a way to sustainthat affordability. And then,
ultimately, down the road,redevelop to ensure that you
could potentially have higherdensity and keep it at an
affordable rate as well. Sothat's that's a major piece of
the work that's been done.
There's been investments in thecommunity housing fund, which is
designed to build affordablehousing, for various groups and
(21:13):
and is certainly rolling outacross across the community and
it's and it's initiatives likethat. I think the reality is at
his heart, like I say, whereit's a financial issue, I think
there are some people that wework with that simply need an
economic intervention. And thatlooks like affordable housing.
(21:35):
That might look like a rentsupplement, in order for them
to, either prevent or end theirexperience of homelessness. And
then there's others whocertainly have poverty as an
issue.
And then on top of that areexperiencing other other
considerations. So that's wheremental illness comes in. That's
where substance misuse comes in.And I think the thing that we're
(21:58):
seeing currently at this moment,that's really showing up, is the
issue of how, you know, now sortof 8 years down the road with
this drug poisoning crisis, theother, outcome that we're seeing
is the increase of acquiredbrain injury in people and what
ultimately, what impact thatthat has. And that speaks to,
(22:20):
what kind of responses we needto address that.
And that goes far beyond simplyan economic intervention. That
goes to significant, wraparoundsupports and different types of
care for, people that arestruggling with those issues.
Jessica Samuels (22:35):
So what's the correlation between the drug
poisoning crisis and theacquired brain injury?
Mike Gawliuk (22:41):
So again, this has been going on for a period of
time, and there are people whohave overdosed and been brought
back. There are some who haveoverdosed multiple times and
been brought back. In somecases, when they're overdosing,
ultimately, the oxygen is cutoff to the brain and they can be
down for an extended period oftime. They may experience
(23:04):
multiple overdoses. But thereality is that without oxygen
to your brain, there's gonna besome damage that happens.
Jessica Samuels (23:13):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (23:14):
And I think I think that's now, as we've kinda
gone down field a little bit isone of the things that we're
seeing show up more, than it mayhave ultimately, you know, 5 or
6 years ago.
Jessica Samuels (23:26):
Okay. Right. Once again, many pathways to
homelessness and it's it's not aa set group where economic
intervention, medicalintervention, plus all of other
things that we didn't we didn'tdelve too much into. There's
also all kinds of groups.There's youth and and perhaps,
vulnerable groups that arefleeing difficult situations, in
(23:48):
existing homes, whether it'stheir their parents or
caregivers, whether it's their,spouses or partners and all of
that.
And so this is a population ofhidden homeless that perhaps are
sleeping on a friend's couch andjust trying to navigate other
crises in their life, as they'vehad to give up their homes.
Mike Gawliuk (24:08):
Yeah. I mean, ultimately, there are groups
that are more more vulnerable toexperiencing homelessness. One
of those groups is indigenouspeople. One of those groups is
LGBTQ2SI, individuals. And then,youth, as well are population
that's at significant risk.
(24:29):
In fact, 40% of people that endup experiencing homelessness
experience that before the ageof 16. Then we look at
racialized communities and thoseare also higher risk for
homelessness, across thiscountry.
Jessica Samuels (24:47):
We have established that there is a
housing, a homelessness crisisin our community. We've talked
about the drug overdose crisisand then the other impacting
factors and the many paths tohomelessness. You talked about
some interventions. And, we knowin in the mental health and
health community, earlyintervention when addressing
(25:08):
those factors are key. Whatwould be some ways to some
additional ways to addresshousing precarity?
Let's talk about that.
Mike Gawliuk (25:20):
Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (25:21):
Because there are some things a little further
upstream that if you're an anindividual who is nervous and
you're making these choicesbetween groceries, gas, car
payment, or not even bus fareand rent, What are some ways
that these can be addressed?
Mike Gawliuk (25:39):
Yeah. I think there's multiple ways. And
before I jump into those thoseelements, I also want to say
that we have to be careful inaddressing these issues that
we're not just looking for asilver bullet. Mhmm. Because the
reality is, there is no silverbullet.
(25:59):
And so it it takes a an approachthat's gonna it's gonna involve
housing. It's going to involvehealth care. It's going to
involve multiple sectors. So Ijust I just want to say that
because I think, sort of wherewe are currently, everybody is
looking for a silver bullet.We're looking for the thing that
is going to fix things.
There is no one thing. Now totie it into to your question, we
(26:24):
can intervene after the factwhen somebody has experienced,
homelessness, or we can try toprevent them from ending up
there in the first place. Thathas significant economic impact
as well as, major social impact.So certainly one example of that
(26:44):
is a program that we run,through CMHA, which is called
the Central Okanagan Rent Bank.And that program, has been
established for those peoplethat are really one paycheck
away from losing their home.
Last year, we had 511 peopleapply to Rent Bank for a loan,
(27:07):
loan grant combo or a grant. Wewere able to approve 259 people
to to be approved for that. Thatincludes, 80 children. And so
the number of families that havecome forward looking for
assistance is important. Thereality is, this is a needed
(27:29):
investment.
And for $1500 one time, ifsomeone's having a struggle with
employment or health, or maybethey're going through a
relationship, breakup. Andthat's the thing that can make
the difference between themkeeping the roof that they have
over their head or ending uphomeless. That is that is a wise
(27:49):
investment. I think, you know,across the community, we're
seeing different initiativesthat are focused around
prevention and diversion. One ofthe organizations, to do that is
certainly in the youth world isBGCO.
So Boys and Girls Club, theystarted a shelter diversion
program years ago. The goal wasto do whatever they could to
(28:13):
prevent someone from ending upin shelter, because we know for
young people that if they're inshelter, their risk level goes
up. So diverting them fromshelter or from the streets, and
oftentimes that can then looklike trying to engage them with
family or another option to to,try to ensure some stability and
(28:33):
prevent them from, going wherethey could go. And then I think
one that's recent, and, youknow, give full credit to Metro
as the host is a shelter hub,which is kind of the adult
version of what, BGCO has doneso that people can come in
(28:54):
before accessing shelter orexperiencing homelessness and
with the support oforganizations, and it's led by
Turning Points. We're a partnerin it as well as others.
Again, trying to divert peoplefrom ending up in shelter or on
the streets. And that mightmean, assisting with returning
(29:15):
to a home community and gettingreconnected with family. It can
look like different things, butthe goal ultimately is kind of
to try to turn the tap down alittle bit, so that there's less
people ending up out there, andmore people with a roof over
their head.
Jessica Samuels (29:32):
Great organizations that you
mentioned. Some of them arespecific here local to Kelowna.
Some of these, like BGC, you'llfind in other communities across
BC as well. And so folks cancheck out the programs that they
provide, in their specific totheir community. The one I do
wanna mention though is RentBank is a provincial entity, and
(29:52):
so it is run by, variousorganizations in the community.
So here, like as you mentionedfor the central Okanagan is
CMHA. So if there's folks whoare listening, who are outside
of Kelowna or the centralOkanagan, then really BC Rent
Bank and and and find the onethat's closest to you. And the
great thing about Rent Bank aswell is that the process to pay
back, it's a micro loan, andthere is some financial
(30:13):
literacy, embedded within theservices.
Mike Gawliuk (30:17):
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, Rent Bank sort of
started in the the lowermainland, with the support of
the Vancity Foundation and thenexpanded. And, now there's 18,
Rent Banks across BritishColumbia. And, certainly, as
time has gone on, there's becomemore financial support from, the
(30:40):
provincial government while aswell with the recognition and
acknowledgment that a little bitof investment now is way is
significant compared to how muchyou'd have to spend down the
road, trying to address theissue of homelessness.
Jessica Samuels (30:56):
Mike, thank you so much for having this
conversation with me today. It'sit's huge as complex as we set
off the top, but I so appreciateyour time. I appreciate our
sponsor, Being Credit Union, forallowing these conversations to
be possible. And one of the keyfactors is that you talked about
a lot of the resources, and wewill be including those in the
show notes so people can referback to them. But really, thank
(31:18):
you so much for being here.
Mike Gawliuk (31:20):
Thank you. And thanks to Beam. I mean,
ultimately, there are resourcesout there that people can get
access to. And certainly,hopefully, one of the things we
can do by having theseconversations is increase the
level of awareness about whereto turn when you're facing, some
challenges.
Jessica Samuels (31:36):
Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of
communities all across BC withover 50 branches and insurance
offices dedicated to supportingyour financial journey. Beam
understands financial wellnessmeans something different to
everyone, and they're here tohelp you achieve your unique
goals. Whether you're saving forthe future, planning your next
big step, or just looking forpeace of mind, Beam Credit Union
(31:58):
is by your side. GFCU Savings,Gulf and Fraser, Interior
Savings and North Peace Savingsare trade names of Beam Credit
Union.
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