November 6, 2024 • 37 mins
In Episode 4 of A Way Forward: Conversations on Mental Health, presented by Beem Credit Union, host Jessica Samuels is joined by Mike Gawliuk, CEO of CMHA Kelowna, for a discussion on men's mental health and suicide rates. Acknowledging the cultural and societal expectations surrounding masculinity, they explore how these norms contribute to the struggles men face when seeking help. This episode sheds light on alarming statistics, personal experiences, and the urgent need for more open conversations.
Key Topics Discussed
- The Silent Crisis: An overview of the suicide rates in Canada, where approximately 75% of the 4,000 annual suicides are men.
- Gender Paradox: Discussion of why men are more likely to die by suicide despite women attempting it more frequently.
- Cultural Expectations of Masculinity: How societal norms dictate that men should be strong and self-reliant, making it difficult for them to express vulnerability or seek help.
- Personal Experiences: Mike Gawliuk shares his journey with depression and the societal pressures that discouraged open conversations about mental health.
- The Role of Social Connections: The importance of having supportive relationships and how they differ between men and women.
- Impact of Life Events: How unemployment, relationship breakdowns, and parenting challenges can significantly affect men's mental health.
- Resources for Men: Introduction of various resources such as Heads Up Guys and He Changed It, aimed at providing support and information for men's mental health.
- Workplace Culture: The stigma surrounding mental health in the workplace and how it can prevent men from seeking help.
- Community Awareness: The need for increased awareness and conversation around men's mental health, particularly in light of the current drug crisis affecting men disproportionately.
Important Statistics
- 75% of suicides in Canada are by men.
- 77% of deaths from unregulated drugs in British Columbia are male.
- 80% of these drug-related deaths occur indoors, highlighting issues of isolation.
Takeaways
- Encouragement to Seek Help: Mike emphasizes the importance of reaching out and having conversations about mental health.
- Community Action: Individuals can play a role in fostering community discussions and reducing stigma around mental health issues.
- Resources and Support: Awareness of available tools and websites can help men recognize when they need help and how to access it.
**Additional Resources**
He changed it
ingoodcompany.menshealthresearch.ubc.ca
**General Mental Health Resources:**
If you or someone you know is struggling, CMHA Kelowna's Find Help Now page has a list of emergency and non-emergency resources for individuals of any age. CMHA Kelowna - Find Help Now
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Samuels (00:00):
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
episode 4 of A Way Forwardpresented by Beam Credit Union.
I'd like to acknowledge that weare on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Nation, Sillix
people. Today's topic is men'smental health and suicide. My
guest is CMHA Kelowna CEO, MikeGolick, and we talk about how
(00:23):
societal expectations and normsaround masculinity really impact
whether or not men get help fortheir mental health issues.
Mike, this is being referred toin many countries as the silent
crisis. Men are struggling. Imean, when we look at the 1,000,
(00:46):
I think it's 4,000 suicides thattake place, and this is a
Canadian number, so that takeplace in Canada. You know, 75%
of those each year are men.That's the rate 3 times higher
than women.
I, you know, it's it's it'sheartbreaking because I just
(01:07):
wonder, could we be doing more?Like so we'll discuss what more
we could be doing and and kindof what brought us here. But I
I'm just really interested tohave this discussion with you
because this is something thatreally needs to be looked at and
addressed in our community. Andso what are your thoughts on why
this is so high and why men areseem to be and are struggling in
(01:32):
this way?
Mike Gawliuk (01:33):
Well, I mean, I'm going to share some of my own
lived experience and certainlywhat, you know, the data say.
The Canadian stat tends to holdout when you go to other
countries. You know, one of thethings that's been talked about
is a gender paradox in thatwomen attempt suicide more
(01:58):
frequently, but men die bysuicide. Again, the stat in
Canada is 3 out of every 4. Andwhen you start to look at why, I
mean there's a whole lot offactors that play into this.
At a simple level before we talka little bit further about those
factors, when men die bysuicide, it tends to be a more
(02:26):
lethal approach. There may bemore impulsivity in men, which
can also align with alcohol useand substance use ultimately.
And the reality that men areless likely to talk about what's
happening for them. And I thinkthat goes deeper into society,
(02:49):
the definition of masculinity,what that means. And when I
think, I mean, I certainly comefrom a certain generation and in
my own life I mean I'vestruggled with depression
probably since I was a youngadult.
Growing up it wasn't somethingthat was talked about. Certainly
(03:11):
wasn't something that I wasaware of and I certainly didn't
get even getting into thisfield. I've learned more for me
personally when I look at myhistory and I look back to my
twenties, for me, like there wasthere were signs and things that
(03:35):
would show up. I knew I didn'tfeel right. For me, that would
show up as I'd get a little bitmore irritable in terms of
losing energy and focus andthose different pieces.
But coming forward and talkingabout that, that wasn't
something that you did becausecertainly traditional views of
(04:03):
masculinity are that talkingabout these issues, being
vulnerable is a sign ofweakness. Like what it means to
be a man in society is aboutbeing strong, trying to, you
know, just work through it.
Jessica Samuels (04:24):
Is this was this is this nature and nurture?
Is this a learned behavior? Isit you were told not to? Because
I think as as as individuals,you kind of look around and say,
well, if no one else is talkingabout it, should I? But did you
also have experience where youtried to express it and it was
(04:46):
said, like, hey, man.
Like, you know, put on your bigboy pants or whatever the the
comment is.
Mike Gawliuk (04:52):
Yeah. I mean, I mean, ultimately, it wasn't
recognized when you talk aboutnature versus nurture. I think,
you know, the family of origin,you know, growing up, what
you're exposed to within yourfamily sets the stage for what
it is okay to talk about and notokay to talk about. I think
(05:12):
again in from a generationalperspective, mental health
wasn't something that was talkedabout in school. And I think if
anybody were to speak to whatthey were they were
experiencing, they're gonna beostracized and marginalized and
looked at as weird or there wassomething wrong or, it just it
(05:35):
wasn't something that a) wastalked about, and just knew it
was inherently not somethingthat was really safe to talk
about because of the judgmentthat would come with that.
Jessica Samuels (05:47):
And that's not what a man is supposed to do
because, I mean and and let'sand I really appreciate you
sharing your story and and whereyou're coming from a personal
level here, and and I and Iunderstand the the weight that
comes with it. And I think it'speople like yourself sharing
those stories, and I think it'simportant to talk about the
(06:09):
weight of what it means to be aman in society and, how that can
really play on your emotions andand and play on how you conduct
your day to day. So let's startwith what I what what does it
mean when you were growing up?What did it mean to be a man?
Mike Gawliuk (06:32):
Well a man was someone who provided for their
family. A man was someone whowas strong, who would work hard.
Jessica Samuels (06:46):
Physically strong and emotionally strong.
Mike Gawliuk (06:48):
Yeah. That's ultimately what that looked
like. Right? And so, you know,the reality is you're trying to
live up to those expectationsand you're not in a place where,
(07:10):
again, societally that's beingtalked about much, right? And
then there's a lot of pressuresthat come and again when you
look at the data and I certainlylook at my own experiences like
there's significant pressuresthat impact men's mental health.
From a provider perspective,when unemployment rates go up,
(07:34):
suicide rates go up. When arelationship ends, how that
relationship ends and what thatlooks like impacts a man's
mental health significantly. Sowhen you look at divorce, you
know, the stability that comeswith a relationship is pulled
(07:55):
out from under your feet. And ifthere are children involved,
What that looks like is, interms of the relationship that a
man has with their children, isanother excessive point of
pressure and can be somethingthat negatively impacts a man's
mental health.
Jessica Samuels (08:13):
Is part of that also, I wonder the expectation
that as a man, you're notsharing your vulnerability and
your emotionality around thosesituations. So as you're you're
you're you're talking to me andwe're talking
Mike Gawliuk (08:31):
and
Jessica Samuels (08:31):
and I'm divorced. I I don't have
children. I'm divorced, and I'mI'm thinking, yes. You know,
that was horrible time in mylife, And I had a network of
people and family, and I couldcry or yell or swear and move
on. And and you're right.
It takes a big toll on theemotional health. So talk about
(08:54):
how that's different for a
Mike Gawliuk (08:57):
man. Well, again, in my experience, you know, as a
couple, as a family, there'ssocial relationships that you
have. When a split happens,those social relationships may
no longer exist. The socialconnections and friendships that
(09:18):
you have is really dependentupon whether it's safe to talk
about those things. I thinkoftentimes other things that,
you know, men experience and andhow they try to address these
issues is, you know, avoidingthrowing themselves into work or
(09:40):
some other pursuits, notspeaking into it, not in some
cases, not understanding thatsome of the symptoms that
they're experiencing areactually related to their mental
health.
And I think the same thing canplay out as far as, you know,
when you go through a split,you're facing all these things.
(10:04):
You might look to cope. That'swhere self medicating can come
in. Certainly, that's where ahigher risk of people as far as
suicide attempts and death bysuicide. There's a lot of
factors that play out with thatand, and and then there's just
(10:26):
not knowing what's going on.
Right? If you're not aware ofmental health, you're not aware
of some of the signs and thesymptoms. If it's showing up as
physical symptoms whether it'spain or you're having stomach
problems or racing heart and yougo to the to the doctor, you're
going there potentially to talkabout the physical symptoms that
(10:47):
you're experiencing. And sosometimes in the in, you know,
the medical profession, thefocus then becomes on treating
those physical symptoms. Andthere may not be a further look
into what is behind thosephysical symptoms and and what
else might be at play here.
Mhmm. And, I I think that'simportant to understand as well.
Jessica Samuels (11:09):
It is. And I do wanna come back to that in a
minute, but I want I wonder aswell, we've talked about before
in this on this podcast aboutsocial connection and and
having, those, you know, formalor informal, connections. Is
what role does that play inthis? Because, know, as a woman,
(11:29):
it will be easy for me to sithere and say, well, you don't
talk to your friends the way Italk to my friends. And and so
when we you just gave an exampleof symptoms.
Oftentimes, we say if yourmental health is not the same,
you're not doing well. You know,maybe your friends around you
will say, hey. Are you okay?Mhmm. Hey.
(11:50):
You know, what's going on? Youwent through this breakup.
Before we get to the doctor, youknow, what is the impact of not
having these these socialconnections in the same way that
women have social connections?
Mike Gawliuk (12:05):
I mean, it's it's, it's major. Right? Because those
social connections, and thequality of those social
connections can be thedifference between having
conversations and not havingconversations. And I think I
mean, when we talk about some ofthe things that can ultimately
(12:25):
be done in regards to thisconnections, conversation, and
community are absolutelyessential to men who are
struggling and need anopportunity to have the same
(12:46):
sorts of conversations that mayhappen with others. And and and
again, I think I look at it andI think about, you know,
historically I look about againwhere it was safe as we've, you
know, become more knowledgeablearound these issues.
I look back and I look at, youknow, for example, the
workplace. Here you are again ina role with this expectation
(13:10):
that you're gonna provide. And Iremember a time when I was
pretty stressed out. I waspretty burnt out and I was
looking to take some time off.And people were suggesting to me
it was time to take some timeoff.
I really struggled with thedecision to actually do that
(13:33):
because I was concerned aroundwhat would people think of me.
Employers at that point in time,that wasn't something that was
accepted or supportednecessarily and certainly could
be something that was looked atquite negatively. That's
(13:56):
changing, but it is still afactor that absolutely impacts
and plays itself out in terms ofadmitting, opening up and taking
steps towards, you know, gettingbetter when, when you're not
doing well.
Jessica Samuels (14:15):
Right. Because men are also less likely to seek
out help. So then that kind ofgoes back to that that medical
piece that you were talkingabout before. So they're they're
not opening up to their socialconnections or they don't have
the social connectionsnecessarily for that. They're
not asking for help in amedical, kind of situation.
I do really appreciate how youbring in the workplace because
(14:39):
we spend a lot of time at work.Right? Oh, absolutely. And the
role that workplaces play andcolleagues and employers and and
the people and culture team playin saying, hey, are you okay?
And it's interesting, to me asI'm sitting here and I'm and I'm
(15:00):
listening to you share yourstory.
And I think it's important tonote that, this won't be the
first time I've said this toyou. You are a white male. Yes.
Mike Gawliuk (15:11):
I am.
Jessica Samuels (15:12):
I'm not sure if you knew that. And thinking
about the struggles that youhave had speaking up and out
about your mental health, and weknow that, indigenous males in
this community and individualswho are within the queer
community also experience higherrates of, mental health issues,
(15:33):
mental illness, and, attemptingto attempting suicide. And so,
really, we think about all thethe factors that roll into
speaking up and out. And youjust wonder how can possibly
there be the infrastructure tosupport men in this way?
Mike Gawliuk (15:54):
Well, that's a I mean, that's a really good
question. I think, when we lookat sort of what's available.
Right? Mhmm. You know, I I I andin preparing for our discussion
today, take a look at like whatresources are out there.
Right? And what resources areout there specifically for men
(16:16):
who may want to be become moreinformed? I mean, there's a
number of websites. One iscalled Heads Up Guys. And, you
know, looking at that website, Imean, it provides a ton of
information.
(16:36):
It also has, like, embeddedtools within it so you can take
a test to assess where you'reat. There's resources for people
in the man's life in terms ofhow to talk about these things.
There's information aboutdifferent mental health concerns
(16:57):
and and how to how to managethat. And I I mean and I think
we're seeing, like, there'sthere's more of that. There's a
number of other, you know,websites available.
Right?
Jessica Samuels (17:10):
I'm thinking even one that's local to the
Okanagan. There's He Changed It,which is an, an app and a
podcast and really that that thegenesis of that came out of, the
individual's own personalexperience with mental health as
well.
Mike Gawliuk (17:25):
Absolutely.
Jessica Samuels (17:25):
Yeah. Yeah. So and and now number of resources
that you mentioned, all greatthings. And and I know that even
some of the, movements thathappen like, I know, Movember
kind of went from I think beforeit was it was kind of focused on
prostate cancer, and then nowit's kind of moved into that
(17:45):
mental wellness sphere. And thatmight be one that folks are more
familiar with.
Mike Gawliuk (17:51):
Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (17:52):
When I was also preparing for this, you know, I
just wondered, how not that youyou can really say, like, it's
it's it's a balanced scale orwhatever, but do you think that
in societally speaking, so inthe medical community, are we
paying enough attention to this?So we we just mentioned a few
(18:14):
resources. Right? We just talkedabout a few things that people
could do. But I think if youlook up, you know, women's
mental health or other, issuesthat are specific to women or
women also face.
I'm just gonna generally throwit out there. I just feel like
you're gonna see a lot more, andthere's a lot more of a movement
(18:35):
behind it. And so from yourperspective, which might be a
little skewed because you're inthe industry, what do you think
about that? Are we paying enoughattention?
Mike Gawliuk (18:46):
Well, I think it goes back to the reality of
we're not having that meaningfulconversation. Right? The reality
still exists that this is whatit means to to be a man, to be
masculine. And are we doingenough? I would say we
(19:07):
absolutely need to do more.
I think, you know, how, youknow, how men are viewed
societally is also somethingthat impacts the ability to have
conversations or or to bringthis piece forward. What I do
know for me, as I've continuedto, you know, go on my journey,
(19:34):
I mean, what's made a differenceis having decent friends that I
can talk to and that it's safeto share about this. People in
my life that say, hey, I'venoticed, you know, yeah. You
seem a little bit different andhow are you doing? Which then
(19:55):
allows the opportunity for thatconversation and and to be able
to talk about what's takingplace.
And certainly then, again,accessing support and accessing
help seems a little bit easier.And and the decision to seek
(20:15):
help, I know for myself, therewas just a certain level of
relief in that. You're, youknow, you're trying to hold on.
You're trying to be strong andyou're struggling and and having
those connections and havingpeople that care about you and
check-in and say, how are youdoing, makes all the difference
(20:37):
in the world. And so when wetalk about a movement absolutely
when it comes to women's health,that that's that's more of a I
would say just
Jessica Samuels (20:47):
We're more so we talked about it more. We are
we from from a young age, weare, encouraged, allowed,
whatever. There's more space forus to be vulnerable slash
emotional and talk about ourfeelings.
Mike Gawliuk (21:03):
Yeah. 100%. And and and that hasn't necessarily
been the case. And so when yousay paying more attention to it,
I think the level of awarenessaround the impact, some of the
data that we talked about, youknow, when we dive into things
(21:26):
like the current drug crisisthat's taking place across our
province, some reallyinteresting data that was
released at the end of last weekfor the 1st 9 months of this
year. And and the people thathave died from an unregulated
drug supply, 77% are male.
(21:51):
When we look at the data from2023 around where people are
dying of unregulated drugs, 80%happens indoors. 47% of that is
in people's homes. Certainly,when we consider 77% of men and
(22:16):
dying at home alone that to mespeaks to something as well. I
mean there's recreational druguse. That's likely not something
that's going to happen whenyou're by yourself.
That's something that happens ina social setting and the rest of
it. And so I would query thelink between, mental health and
(22:40):
the data that's showing up sofar, as far as, that, crisis
that we're experiencing in ourprovince.
Jessica Samuels (22:48):
I mean, those stats really painted a a a a
really heartbreaking, imagethere of of of men alone and and
and and using drugs. And then asyou mentioned, it's a
unregulated supply. Is part ofthat is there data around, or do
(23:08):
we know are men more likely toturn to drugs in order to
address our substances in orderto address maybe their their
mental health issues?
Mike Gawliuk (23:21):
Yeah. I mean, absolutely. One of the ways that
mental health challenges show upin males is increased use of
alcohol. It's and again that'sseen consistently self
medicating ultimately. You mightknow something's wrong, but
(23:42):
again accessing help might notbe something that you know to
do, or feel comfortable to do.
And so there absolutely is alink. I think the other thing
that those stats speak to and Ithink it's something that
absolutely our community, ourprovince, and ultimately the
country needs to understand.There's the perception of who is
(24:07):
doing what. Who uses drugs? Andit's really easy to go to
thinking of places like theDowntown Eastside, going to tent
city in Kelowna.
Yet what the data show usactually is that 20% of the
deaths due to unregulated drugsupply happen outdoors for
(24:28):
unhoused populations. And theperception of that and certainly
we saw the frustration come outwhen our provincial coroner left
the post is that we need to beable to talk about this,
understand this, and make itokay. Like substance use is
(24:54):
still absolutely the moststigmatized area. Mental health
is, you know, continues to haveits, you know, the movement
forward as far asdestigmatization. But that's an
area that we absolutely have toget our heads around because
it's not.
It is people outside. It issometimes those that, you know,
(25:19):
society might assume are. Butagain, the data is saying
something to us. And ultimately,when you say, is there more that
we need to do? I think that dataspeaks specifically to the
answer that, yes, actually, wedo.
Jessica Samuels (25:33):
So what? You had to know that was coming.
Mike Gawliuk (25:38):
Well, I think, I mean, part of it, you know, you
go back to the simple part of ofraising awareness, part of
having conversations, providingopportunities for men to get
together. And I think there'sultimately roles that absolutely
(26:00):
organizations like ours, theCanadian Mental Health
Association, plays. And I mean,last year we sponsored an event
on men's mental health. As withany societal change, there has
to be awareness. There has to beconversation and and there has
(26:21):
to be the building of communityto get to the place where this
is something that's okay to totackle.
I mean, I'm concerned in a worldright now that's pretty divided.
The concept of community is anabsolute challenge. And so
there's a lot of work to bedone. I think what can
(26:43):
individuals do?
Jessica Samuels (26:44):
Individuals
Mike Gawliuk (26:47):
can go to some of those resources to just check it
out. Individuals can armthemselves with information and,
you know, for themselves or forpeople in their lives that they
care about, start aconversation. Notice. Those are
the first steps in terms ofgetting help. And I think, you
(27:12):
know, at a community level, weneed to talk about this way
more.
It isn't something that we talkabout a whole bunch for a number
of the reasons that we'vealready spoken about. That
hopefully can unlock some doorsand provide opportunities for
(27:34):
people to be okay with not beingokay, and seeking out the help
that might be available.
Jessica Samuels (27:43):
Few points I wanna make just coming off that
is, is we talked a little bitabout how mental health issues
show up could show updifferently in men. So when we
talk about if somebody's doingthat self assessment or they're
assessing a loved one, There's,you know, there's there's the
kind of the framework that welook at. Are they, you said, you
(28:03):
know, drinking more, sleepingmore, behaviors a little bit,
different. You know, in in insome individuals, it might be
quiet. It might be, moreirritable.
In men, sometimes it's even moreso. So, going from irritable to
angry. Also, some physicalsymptoms, which you brought up
earlier. Yeah. So it could bephysically manifesting, and
(28:27):
there could be part of theproblem, but these could also
be, some mental health concerns.
So what are some other thingsthat people can look for in
themselves or, at the men intheir lives?
Mike Gawliuk (28:38):
I I think another factor is is the ability to
concentrate, focus,restlessness. If you see a
difference, that can be anindicator. Low energy, certainly
when it comes to depression,When you notice again a
significant change when somebodyjust doesn't have, I would say,
(29:01):
the gas to get up and and and,you know, live, that's another
factor that comes intoconsideration when we're looking
at men's mental health. I thinkagain one of the things around
irritability, aggression, andultimately sometimes
(29:23):
unfortunately abuse is in someway again societally that seems
to be a more acceptable way fora man to behave. It's expected
that.
Right? And so those are thoseare factors that ultimately need
to be looking at and consideringin in this as far as when
(29:48):
there's concerns and andpotential risks and you need to
take a closer look at what'shappening.
Jessica Samuels (29:55):
I think if you're an individual who's
observing this in in someoneelse in your life, whether it's
a man or or anyone, there's ahesitant. I have heard there's a
hesitancy to ask because you'reworried that you won't know what
to do with the information ifthe person shares with you.
Either you're gonna give themwrong information, you don't
(30:17):
know what to say. And, you know,one of the terms that that I
learned in my time here at CMHAKelowna is be present, listen
Mike Gawliuk (30:27):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (30:28):
And hold space for that individual. And you
don't always have to have theanswers, but you can be there
for them and you can help themto find the answers. And I think
that is the responsibility forthe folks that are around men as
well.
Mike Gawliuk (30:43):
Abs 100%. And there is a concern sometimes
that having the conversationmight open a can of worms and
because don't understand mentalhealth that that could do more
harm than good.
Jessica Samuels (30:57):
Or if you bring it up, you're gonna trigger
something that maybe wasn'tthere.
Mike Gawliuk (31:01):
Yeah. Those things that you talk about, be present,
listen, show concern andcompassion. Those are things
that are essential and and it'sit's not going to be the mistake
that you make. I think themistake that you make is when
(31:23):
people don't have thoseconversations, when they're not
noticing what's taking place,those opportunities for
connection and the ability thento support. And and and whether
someone seeks out professionalhelp or not, it's being there in
(31:44):
their lives.
It's noticing if you haven'theard from somebody in a while.
Should I check-in and and justsee how they're doing? Right? So
having a conversation, it's okayand it's necessary. Mhmm.
And it's part of what anybodycan do to help support, in these
(32:05):
circumstances.
Jessica Samuels (32:07):
One question back to you personally I have
for you. You shared, your yourown journey with mental health
today, And, you know, it it hasstruck me that you have been in
this space for a very long timein in youth mental health and
homelessness and all of that.How how does your day to day
(32:32):
work? I mean, this is heavywork. I don't think there's
anybody out there listening orwho knows or who works at any of
the other wonderfulorganizations that we have in in
the Okanagan and across thisprovince.
This is heavy work, and youreally have to make sure that
you are in check. How how hasthat been for you? Like, how do
(32:57):
how do you do the work, goingthrough some of the things that
that you've shared with us heretoday?
Mike Gawliuk (33:03):
Well, it's a challenge. Again, I think,
having been involved in the workand understanding mental health
a little bit more, I have a Ihave a level of self awareness
that I didn't have before. Thereare things that I do to to take
care of myself whether thatincludes taking medication, I
(33:27):
see a therapist. Then there'sthose things that I know I
should do that sometimes arechallenging to do, like eat
right, exercise, all of thosethings that we know that are
important for mental health. Soit certainly can be a challenge.
Again, having people in my lifewho will ask and in some cases,
(33:53):
challenge me a little bit makesa huge difference towards
sometimes pointing out, hey, youknow, you maybe need to take a
look at things. And for me togo, okay, I think it's probably
time to book an appointment withwith my therapist. I think, you
know, I better get out and hopon my bike and and go for a
(34:17):
ride. And sometimes that canfeel really heavy when you're
struggling, finding the energyto do that, and and and knowing
that it can little steps areokay, knowing sometimes it feels
overwhelming and you don't haveto take care of it all just a
(34:38):
little bit. Those are all thingsthat, I mean, I look at and, you
know, we talk about, like,mental health versus mental
illness and wellness.
Right? And you might not have amental illness and still be
(35:02):
struggling. Exactly. And you mayhave an mental illness and be be
functioning. Right?
It's it's what we do to takecare of ourselves. It's those
some of those things that I'vespoken to, and everybody's gonna
have their own path and theirown journey to that ultimately.
(35:22):
When you're struggling, I wouldsay ultimately, again have that
conversation and find what worksfor you. And that's that's
important. If it's getting tothe point where you need to look
at accessing health within thesystem.
(35:45):
Again, if you have a GP, that'sa place to start. If you don't,
there's urgent primary carecenters where you can go.
Depending on, you know,employment whether or not
there's a benefit plan attachedto your work, accessing
(36:05):
resources through there. Someemployers are doing health
spending accounts which allowyou to get access to different
activities and things that mightsupport you to be healthy. And
then if it's to the point where,again assistance is required,
There is also the public systemin Interior Health that provides
(36:26):
mental health and substance useservices and a number of
community organizations as wellthat provide supports including
ours in the form of virtualcounseling, which is free and a
single session, low barrieropportunity to to talk to
somebody.
And you might start theconversation and you may have
(36:46):
another. But those are the stepsto take when things are becoming
a point of concern and, youknow, it's time to seek out a
different level of support.
Jessica Samuels (37:00):
Right. Don't wait until you're in crisis. Get
help sooner.
Mike Gawliuk (37:04):
Yeah. And and and hopefully, those conversations
allow you to have a plan and tohave a network, and how how
essential that is to mentalhealth and mental wellness for
men.
Jessica Samuels (37:18):
Thank you, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk (37:19):
Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (37:21):
Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of
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Union.
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
episode 4 of A Way Forwardpresented by Beam Credit Union.
I'd like to acknowledge that weare on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Nation, Sillix
people. Today's topic is men'smental health and suicide. My
guest is CMHA Kelowna CEO, MikeGolick, and we talk about how
(00:23):
societal expectations and normsaround masculinity really impact
whether or not men get help fortheir mental health issues.
Mike, this is being referred toin many countries as the silent
crisis. Men are struggling. Imean, when we look at the 1,000,
(00:46):
I think it's 4,000 suicides thattake place, and this is a
Canadian number, so that takeplace in Canada. You know, 75%
of those each year are men.That's the rate 3 times higher
than women.
I, you know, it's it's it'sheartbreaking because I just
(01:07):
wonder, could we be doing more?Like so we'll discuss what more
we could be doing and and kindof what brought us here. But I
I'm just really interested tohave this discussion with you
because this is something thatreally needs to be looked at and
addressed in our community. Andso what are your thoughts on why
this is so high and why men areseem to be and are struggling in
(01:32):
this way?
Mike Gawliuk (01:33):
Well, I mean, I'm going to share some of my own
lived experience and certainlywhat, you know, the data say.
The Canadian stat tends to holdout when you go to other
countries. You know, one of thethings that's been talked about
is a gender paradox in thatwomen attempt suicide more
(01:58):
frequently, but men die bysuicide. Again, the stat in
Canada is 3 out of every 4. Andwhen you start to look at why, I
mean there's a whole lot offactors that play into this.
At a simple level before we talka little bit further about those
factors, when men die bysuicide, it tends to be a more
(02:26):
lethal approach. There may bemore impulsivity in men, which
can also align with alcohol useand substance use ultimately.
And the reality that men areless likely to talk about what's
happening for them. And I thinkthat goes deeper into society,
(02:49):
the definition of masculinity,what that means. And when I
think, I mean, I certainly comefrom a certain generation and in
my own life I mean I'vestruggled with depression
probably since I was a youngadult.
Growing up it wasn't somethingthat was talked about. Certainly
(03:11):
wasn't something that I wasaware of and I certainly didn't
get even getting into thisfield. I've learned more for me
personally when I look at myhistory and I look back to my
twenties, for me, like there wasthere were signs and things that
(03:35):
would show up. I knew I didn'tfeel right. For me, that would
show up as I'd get a little bitmore irritable in terms of
losing energy and focus andthose different pieces.
But coming forward and talkingabout that, that wasn't
something that you did becausecertainly traditional views of
(04:03):
masculinity are that talkingabout these issues, being
vulnerable is a sign ofweakness. Like what it means to
be a man in society is aboutbeing strong, trying to, you
know, just work through it.
Jessica Samuels (04:24):
Is this was this is this nature and nurture?
Is this a learned behavior? Isit you were told not to? Because
I think as as as individuals,you kind of look around and say,
well, if no one else is talkingabout it, should I? But did you
also have experience where youtried to express it and it was
(04:46):
said, like, hey, man.
Like, you know, put on your bigboy pants or whatever the the
comment is.
Mike Gawliuk (04:52):
Yeah. I mean, I mean, ultimately, it wasn't
recognized when you talk aboutnature versus nurture. I think,
you know, the family of origin,you know, growing up, what
you're exposed to within yourfamily sets the stage for what
it is okay to talk about and notokay to talk about. I think
(05:12):
again in from a generationalperspective, mental health
wasn't something that was talkedabout in school. And I think if
anybody were to speak to whatthey were they were
experiencing, they're gonna beostracized and marginalized and
looked at as weird or there wassomething wrong or, it just it
(05:35):
wasn't something that a) wastalked about, and just knew it
was inherently not somethingthat was really safe to talk
about because of the judgmentthat would come with that.
Jessica Samuels (05:47):
And that's not what a man is supposed to do
because, I mean and and let'sand I really appreciate you
sharing your story and and whereyou're coming from a personal
level here, and and I and Iunderstand the the weight that
comes with it. And I think it'speople like yourself sharing
those stories, and I think it'simportant to talk about the
(06:09):
weight of what it means to be aman in society and, how that can
really play on your emotions andand and play on how you conduct
your day to day. So let's startwith what I what what does it
mean when you were growing up?What did it mean to be a man?
Mike Gawliuk (06:32):
Well a man was someone who provided for their
family. A man was someone whowas strong, who would work hard.
Jessica Samuels (06:46):
Physically strong and emotionally strong.
Mike Gawliuk (06:48):
Yeah. That's ultimately what that looked
like. Right? And so, you know,the reality is you're trying to
live up to those expectationsand you're not in a place where,
(07:10):
again, societally that's beingtalked about much, right? And
then there's a lot of pressuresthat come and again when you
look at the data and I certainlylook at my own experiences like
there's significant pressuresthat impact men's mental health.
From a provider perspective,when unemployment rates go up,
(07:34):
suicide rates go up. When arelationship ends, how that
relationship ends and what thatlooks like impacts a man's
mental health significantly. Sowhen you look at divorce, you
know, the stability that comeswith a relationship is pulled
(07:55):
out from under your feet. And ifthere are children involved,
What that looks like is, interms of the relationship that a
man has with their children, isanother excessive point of
pressure and can be somethingthat negatively impacts a man's
mental health.
Jessica Samuels (08:13):
Is part of that also, I wonder the expectation
that as a man, you're notsharing your vulnerability and
your emotionality around thosesituations. So as you're you're
you're you're talking to me andwe're talking
Mike Gawliuk (08:31):
and
Jessica Samuels (08:31):
and I'm divorced. I I don't have
children. I'm divorced, and I'mI'm thinking, yes. You know,
that was horrible time in mylife, And I had a network of
people and family, and I couldcry or yell or swear and move
on. And and you're right.
It takes a big toll on theemotional health. So talk about
(08:54):
how that's different for a
Mike Gawliuk (08:57):
man. Well, again, in my experience, you know, as a
couple, as a family, there'ssocial relationships that you
have. When a split happens,those social relationships may
no longer exist. The socialconnections and friendships that
(09:18):
you have is really dependentupon whether it's safe to talk
about those things. I thinkoftentimes other things that,
you know, men experience and andhow they try to address these
issues is, you know, avoidingthrowing themselves into work or
(09:40):
some other pursuits, notspeaking into it, not in some
cases, not understanding thatsome of the symptoms that
they're experiencing areactually related to their mental
health.
And I think the same thing canplay out as far as, you know,
when you go through a split,you're facing all these things.
(10:04):
You might look to cope. That'swhere self medicating can come
in. Certainly, that's where ahigher risk of people as far as
suicide attempts and death bysuicide. There's a lot of
factors that play out with thatand, and and then there's just
(10:26):
not knowing what's going on.
Right? If you're not aware ofmental health, you're not aware
of some of the signs and thesymptoms. If it's showing up as
physical symptoms whether it'spain or you're having stomach
problems or racing heart and yougo to the to the doctor, you're
going there potentially to talkabout the physical symptoms that
(10:47):
you're experiencing. And sosometimes in the in, you know,
the medical profession, thefocus then becomes on treating
those physical symptoms. Andthere may not be a further look
into what is behind thosephysical symptoms and and what
else might be at play here.
Mhmm. And, I I think that'simportant to understand as well.
Jessica Samuels (11:09):
It is. And I do wanna come back to that in a
minute, but I want I wonder aswell, we've talked about before
in this on this podcast aboutsocial connection and and
having, those, you know, formalor informal, connections. Is
what role does that play inthis? Because, know, as a woman,
(11:29):
it will be easy for me to sithere and say, well, you don't
talk to your friends the way Italk to my friends. And and so
when we you just gave an exampleof symptoms.
Oftentimes, we say if yourmental health is not the same,
you're not doing well. You know,maybe your friends around you
will say, hey. Are you okay?Mhmm. Hey.
(11:50):
You know, what's going on? Youwent through this breakup.
Before we get to the doctor, youknow, what is the impact of not
having these these socialconnections in the same way that
women have social connections?
Mike Gawliuk (12:05):
I mean, it's it's, it's major. Right? Because those
social connections, and thequality of those social
connections can be thedifference between having
conversations and not havingconversations. And I think I
mean, when we talk about some ofthe things that can ultimately
(12:25):
be done in regards to thisconnections, conversation, and
community are absolutelyessential to men who are
struggling and need anopportunity to have the same
(12:46):
sorts of conversations that mayhappen with others. And and and
again, I think I look at it andI think about, you know,
historically I look about againwhere it was safe as we've, you
know, become more knowledgeablearound these issues.
I look back and I look at, youknow, for example, the
workplace. Here you are again ina role with this expectation
(13:10):
that you're gonna provide. And Iremember a time when I was
pretty stressed out. I waspretty burnt out and I was
looking to take some time off.And people were suggesting to me
it was time to take some timeoff.
I really struggled with thedecision to actually do that
(13:33):
because I was concerned aroundwhat would people think of me.
Employers at that point in time,that wasn't something that was
accepted or supportednecessarily and certainly could
be something that was looked atquite negatively. That's
(13:56):
changing, but it is still afactor that absolutely impacts
and plays itself out in terms ofadmitting, opening up and taking
steps towards, you know, gettingbetter when, when you're not
doing well.
Jessica Samuels (14:15):
Right. Because men are also less likely to seek
out help. So then that kind ofgoes back to that that medical
piece that you were talkingabout before. So they're they're
not opening up to their socialconnections or they don't have
the social connectionsnecessarily for that. They're
not asking for help in amedical, kind of situation.
I do really appreciate how youbring in the workplace because
(14:39):
we spend a lot of time at work.Right? Oh, absolutely. And the
role that workplaces play andcolleagues and employers and and
the people and culture team playin saying, hey, are you okay?
And it's interesting, to me asI'm sitting here and I'm and I'm
(15:00):
listening to you share yourstory.
And I think it's important tonote that, this won't be the
first time I've said this toyou. You are a white male. Yes.
Mike Gawliuk (15:11):
I am.
Jessica Samuels (15:12):
I'm not sure if you knew that. And thinking
about the struggles that youhave had speaking up and out
about your mental health, and weknow that, indigenous males in
this community and individualswho are within the queer
community also experience higherrates of, mental health issues,
(15:33):
mental illness, and, attemptingto attempting suicide. And so,
really, we think about all thethe factors that roll into
speaking up and out. And youjust wonder how can possibly
there be the infrastructure tosupport men in this way?
Mike Gawliuk (15:54):
Well, that's a I mean, that's a really good
question. I think, when we lookat sort of what's available.
Right? Mhmm. You know, I I I andin preparing for our discussion
today, take a look at like whatresources are out there.
Right? And what resources areout there specifically for men
(16:16):
who may want to be become moreinformed? I mean, there's a
number of websites. One iscalled Heads Up Guys. And, you
know, looking at that website, Imean, it provides a ton of
information.
(16:36):
It also has, like, embeddedtools within it so you can take
a test to assess where you'reat. There's resources for people
in the man's life in terms ofhow to talk about these things.
There's information aboutdifferent mental health concerns
(16:57):
and and how to how to managethat. And I I mean and I think
we're seeing, like, there'sthere's more of that. There's a
number of other, you know,websites available.
Right?
Jessica Samuels (17:10):
I'm thinking even one that's local to the
Okanagan. There's He Changed It,which is an, an app and a
podcast and really that that thegenesis of that came out of, the
individual's own personalexperience with mental health as
well.
Mike Gawliuk (17:25):
Absolutely.
Jessica Samuels (17:25):
Yeah. Yeah. So and and now number of resources
that you mentioned, all greatthings. And and I know that even
some of the, movements thathappen like, I know, Movember
kind of went from I think beforeit was it was kind of focused on
prostate cancer, and then nowit's kind of moved into that
(17:45):
mental wellness sphere. And thatmight be one that folks are more
familiar with.
Mike Gawliuk (17:51):
Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (17:52):
When I was also preparing for this, you know, I
just wondered, how not that youyou can really say, like, it's
it's it's a balanced scale orwhatever, but do you think that
in societally speaking, so inthe medical community, are we
paying enough attention to this?So we we just mentioned a few
(18:14):
resources. Right? We just talkedabout a few things that people
could do. But I think if youlook up, you know, women's
mental health or other, issuesthat are specific to women or
women also face.
I'm just gonna generally throwit out there. I just feel like
you're gonna see a lot more, andthere's a lot more of a movement
(18:35):
behind it. And so from yourperspective, which might be a
little skewed because you're inthe industry, what do you think
about that? Are we paying enoughattention?
Mike Gawliuk (18:46):
Well, I think it goes back to the reality of
we're not having that meaningfulconversation. Right? The reality
still exists that this is whatit means to to be a man, to be
masculine. And are we doingenough? I would say we
(19:07):
absolutely need to do more.
I think, you know, how, youknow, how men are viewed
societally is also somethingthat impacts the ability to have
conversations or or to bringthis piece forward. What I do
know for me, as I've continuedto, you know, go on my journey,
(19:34):
I mean, what's made a differenceis having decent friends that I
can talk to and that it's safeto share about this. People in
my life that say, hey, I'venoticed, you know, yeah. You
seem a little bit different andhow are you doing? Which then
(19:55):
allows the opportunity for thatconversation and and to be able
to talk about what's takingplace.
And certainly then, again,accessing support and accessing
help seems a little bit easier.And and the decision to seek
(20:15):
help, I know for myself, therewas just a certain level of
relief in that. You're, youknow, you're trying to hold on.
You're trying to be strong andyou're struggling and and having
those connections and havingpeople that care about you and
check-in and say, how are youdoing, makes all the difference
(20:37):
in the world. And so when wetalk about a movement absolutely
when it comes to women's health,that that's that's more of a I
would say just
Jessica Samuels (20:47):
We're more so we talked about it more. We are
we from from a young age, weare, encouraged, allowed,
whatever. There's more space forus to be vulnerable slash
emotional and talk about ourfeelings.
Mike Gawliuk (21:03):
Yeah. 100%. And and and that hasn't necessarily
been the case. And so when yousay paying more attention to it,
I think the level of awarenessaround the impact, some of the
data that we talked about, youknow, when we dive into things
(21:26):
like the current drug crisisthat's taking place across our
province, some reallyinteresting data that was
released at the end of last weekfor the 1st 9 months of this
year. And and the people thathave died from an unregulated
drug supply, 77% are male.
(21:51):
When we look at the data from2023 around where people are
dying of unregulated drugs, 80%happens indoors. 47% of that is
in people's homes. Certainly,when we consider 77% of men and
(22:16):
dying at home alone that to mespeaks to something as well. I
mean there's recreational druguse. That's likely not something
that's going to happen whenyou're by yourself.
That's something that happens ina social setting and the rest of
it. And so I would query thelink between, mental health and
(22:40):
the data that's showing up sofar, as far as, that, crisis
that we're experiencing in ourprovince.
Jessica Samuels (22:48):
I mean, those stats really painted a a a a
really heartbreaking, imagethere of of of men alone and and
and and using drugs. And then asyou mentioned, it's a
unregulated supply. Is part ofthat is there data around, or do
(23:08):
we know are men more likely toturn to drugs in order to
address our substances in orderto address maybe their their
mental health issues?
Mike Gawliuk (23:21):
Yeah. I mean, absolutely. One of the ways that
mental health challenges show upin males is increased use of
alcohol. It's and again that'sseen consistently self
medicating ultimately. You mightknow something's wrong, but
(23:42):
again accessing help might notbe something that you know to
do, or feel comfortable to do.
And so there absolutely is alink. I think the other thing
that those stats speak to and Ithink it's something that
absolutely our community, ourprovince, and ultimately the
country needs to understand.There's the perception of who is
(24:07):
doing what. Who uses drugs? Andit's really easy to go to
thinking of places like theDowntown Eastside, going to tent
city in Kelowna.
Yet what the data show usactually is that 20% of the
deaths due to unregulated drugsupply happen outdoors for
(24:28):
unhoused populations. And theperception of that and certainly
we saw the frustration come outwhen our provincial coroner left
the post is that we need to beable to talk about this,
understand this, and make itokay. Like substance use is
(24:54):
still absolutely the moststigmatized area. Mental health
is, you know, continues to haveits, you know, the movement
forward as far asdestigmatization. But that's an
area that we absolutely have toget our heads around because
it's not.
It is people outside. It issometimes those that, you know,
(25:19):
society might assume are. Butagain, the data is saying
something to us. And ultimately,when you say, is there more that
we need to do? I think that dataspeaks specifically to the
answer that, yes, actually, wedo.
Jessica Samuels (25:33):
So what? You had to know that was coming.
Mike Gawliuk (25:38):
Well, I think, I mean, part of it, you know, you
go back to the simple part of ofraising awareness, part of
having conversations, providingopportunities for men to get
together. And I think there'sultimately roles that absolutely
(26:00):
organizations like ours, theCanadian Mental Health
Association, plays. And I mean,last year we sponsored an event
on men's mental health. As withany societal change, there has
to be awareness. There has to beconversation and and there has
(26:21):
to be the building of communityto get to the place where this
is something that's okay to totackle.
I mean, I'm concerned in a worldright now that's pretty divided.
The concept of community is anabsolute challenge. And so
there's a lot of work to bedone. I think what can
(26:43):
individuals do?
Jessica Samuels (26:44):
Individuals
Mike Gawliuk (26:47):
can go to some of those resources to just check it
out. Individuals can armthemselves with information and,
you know, for themselves or forpeople in their lives that they
care about, start aconversation. Notice. Those are
the first steps in terms ofgetting help. And I think, you
(27:12):
know, at a community level, weneed to talk about this way
more.
It isn't something that we talkabout a whole bunch for a number
of the reasons that we'vealready spoken about. That
hopefully can unlock some doorsand provide opportunities for
(27:34):
people to be okay with not beingokay, and seeking out the help
that might be available.
Jessica Samuels (27:43):
Few points I wanna make just coming off that
is, is we talked a little bitabout how mental health issues
show up could show updifferently in men. So when we
talk about if somebody's doingthat self assessment or they're
assessing a loved one, There's,you know, there's there's the
kind of the framework that welook at. Are they, you said, you
(28:03):
know, drinking more, sleepingmore, behaviors a little bit,
different. You know, in in insome individuals, it might be
quiet. It might be, moreirritable.
In men, sometimes it's even moreso. So, going from irritable to
angry. Also, some physicalsymptoms, which you brought up
earlier. Yeah. So it could bephysically manifesting, and
(28:27):
there could be part of theproblem, but these could also
be, some mental health concerns.
So what are some other thingsthat people can look for in
themselves or, at the men intheir lives?
Mike Gawliuk (28:38):
I I think another factor is is the ability to
concentrate, focus,restlessness. If you see a
difference, that can be anindicator. Low energy, certainly
when it comes to depression,When you notice again a
significant change when somebodyjust doesn't have, I would say,
(29:01):
the gas to get up and and and,you know, live, that's another
factor that comes intoconsideration when we're looking
at men's mental health. I thinkagain one of the things around
irritability, aggression, andultimately sometimes
(29:23):
unfortunately abuse is in someway again societally that seems
to be a more acceptable way fora man to behave. It's expected
that.
Right? And so those are thoseare factors that ultimately need
to be looking at and consideringin in this as far as when
(29:48):
there's concerns and andpotential risks and you need to
take a closer look at what'shappening.
Jessica Samuels (29:55):
I think if you're an individual who's
observing this in in someoneelse in your life, whether it's
a man or or anyone, there's ahesitant. I have heard there's a
hesitancy to ask because you'reworried that you won't know what
to do with the information ifthe person shares with you.
Either you're gonna give themwrong information, you don't
(30:17):
know what to say. And, you know,one of the terms that that I
learned in my time here at CMHAKelowna is be present, listen
Mike Gawliuk (30:27):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (30:28):
And hold space for that individual. And you
don't always have to have theanswers, but you can be there
for them and you can help themto find the answers. And I think
that is the responsibility forthe folks that are around men as
well.
Mike Gawliuk (30:43):
Abs 100%. And there is a concern sometimes
that having the conversationmight open a can of worms and
because don't understand mentalhealth that that could do more
harm than good.
Jessica Samuels (30:57):
Or if you bring it up, you're gonna trigger
something that maybe wasn'tthere.
Mike Gawliuk (31:01):
Yeah. Those things that you talk about, be present,
listen, show concern andcompassion. Those are things
that are essential and and it'sit's not going to be the mistake
that you make. I think themistake that you make is when
(31:23):
people don't have thoseconversations, when they're not
noticing what's taking place,those opportunities for
connection and the ability thento support. And and and whether
someone seeks out professionalhelp or not, it's being there in
(31:44):
their lives.
It's noticing if you haven'theard from somebody in a while.
Should I check-in and and justsee how they're doing? Right? So
having a conversation, it's okayand it's necessary. Mhmm.
And it's part of what anybodycan do to help support, in these
(32:05):
circumstances.
Jessica Samuels (32:07):
One question back to you personally I have
for you. You shared, your yourown journey with mental health
today, And, you know, it it hasstruck me that you have been in
this space for a very long timein in youth mental health and
homelessness and all of that.How how does your day to day
(32:32):
work? I mean, this is heavywork. I don't think there's
anybody out there listening orwho knows or who works at any of
the other wonderfulorganizations that we have in in
the Okanagan and across thisprovince.
This is heavy work, and youreally have to make sure that
you are in check. How how hasthat been for you? Like, how do
(32:57):
how do you do the work, goingthrough some of the things that
that you've shared with us heretoday?
Mike Gawliuk (33:03):
Well, it's a challenge. Again, I think,
having been involved in the workand understanding mental health
a little bit more, I have a Ihave a level of self awareness
that I didn't have before. Thereare things that I do to to take
care of myself whether thatincludes taking medication, I
(33:27):
see a therapist. Then there'sthose things that I know I
should do that sometimes arechallenging to do, like eat
right, exercise, all of thosethings that we know that are
important for mental health. Soit certainly can be a challenge.
Again, having people in my lifewho will ask and in some cases,
(33:53):
challenge me a little bit makesa huge difference towards
sometimes pointing out, hey, youknow, you maybe need to take a
look at things. And for me togo, okay, I think it's probably
time to book an appointment withwith my therapist. I think, you
know, I better get out and hopon my bike and and go for a
(34:17):
ride. And sometimes that canfeel really heavy when you're
struggling, finding the energyto do that, and and and knowing
that it can little steps areokay, knowing sometimes it feels
overwhelming and you don't haveto take care of it all just a
(34:38):
little bit. Those are all thingsthat, I mean, I look at and, you
know, we talk about, like,mental health versus mental
illness and wellness.
Right? And you might not have amental illness and still be
(35:02):
struggling. Exactly. And you mayhave an mental illness and be be
functioning. Right?
It's it's what we do to takecare of ourselves. It's those
some of those things that I'vespoken to, and everybody's gonna
have their own path and theirown journey to that ultimately.
(35:22):
When you're struggling, I wouldsay ultimately, again have that
conversation and find what worksfor you. And that's that's
important. If it's getting tothe point where you need to look
at accessing health within thesystem.
(35:45):
Again, if you have a GP, that'sa place to start. If you don't,
there's urgent primary carecenters where you can go.
Depending on, you know,employment whether or not
there's a benefit plan attachedto your work, accessing
(36:05):
resources through there. Someemployers are doing health
spending accounts which allowyou to get access to different
activities and things that mightsupport you to be healthy. And
then if it's to the point where,again assistance is required,
There is also the public systemin Interior Health that provides
(36:26):
mental health and substance useservices and a number of
community organizations as wellthat provide supports including
ours in the form of virtualcounseling, which is free and a
single session, low barrieropportunity to to talk to
somebody.
And you might start theconversation and you may have
(36:46):
another. But those are the stepsto take when things are becoming
a point of concern and, youknow, it's time to seek out a
different level of support.
Jessica Samuels (37:00):
Right. Don't wait until you're in crisis. Get
help sooner.
Mike Gawliuk (37:04):
Yeah. And and and hopefully, those conversations
allow you to have a plan and tohave a network, and how how
essential that is to mentalhealth and mental wellness for
men.
Jessica Samuels (37:18):
Thank you, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk (37:19):
Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (37:21):
Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of
communities all across BC withover 50 branches and insurance
offices dedicated to supportingyour financial journey. Beam
understands financial wellnessmeans something different to
everyone, and they're here tohelp you achieve your unique
goals. Whether you're saving forthe future, planning your next
big step, or just looking forpeace of mind, Beam Credit Union
(37:44):
is by your side. GFCU Savings,Gulf and Fraser, Interior
Savings, and North Peace Savingsare trade names of Beam Credit
Union.
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