142. Navigating Relationships: What Women Get Wrong About Men Ft. Jeanell Greene

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the A Word to
the Wise podcast, a space wherewe curate conversations around
mind, body, spirit and personaldevelopment.
I'm your host, jumi Moses.
On the show today is JanelleGreen.
Janelle is a relationship coachand marriage expert, and she is
well known for saving countlessmarriages from loneliness and

(00:21):
divorce, while also addressinggenerational trauma within
families that hold us back fromwhat we truly want, and that is
true connection and love.
Her passion lies in rekindlingthe best friend dynamic for
couples, allowing them torediscover profound love, peace
and fun partnership.
Janelle has a background thatincludes overcoming childhood

(00:44):
trauma, infidelity and divorce,and Janelle now thrives in a
beautiful 17-year marriage thatonce seemed like a pipe dream,
which has inspired a commitmentto help families heal and thrive
.
Janelle firmly believes thatself-love and forgiveness are
necessary to be in a happy andhealthy relationship and that

(01:07):
couples can attain the marriagethey've always desired by
embracing healing, growth andchange.
About men in relationships andhow trauma plays a role in our
relationships, when it's time tolet go of a relationship, and

(01:29):
why the word narcissist isoverused in romantic discourse,
and much more.
I really enjoyed myconversation with Janelle and I
think you guys will as well.
Let's get into the show.
Janelle, welcome to A Word tothe Wise.

(01:59):
Thank you so much for beinghere today.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm really excited to speak with you Same Thanks,
jimmy.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
I want to start off by asking you what is your life
motto?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I have a few.
I think you know there's.
I would say there's three.
I think the first one iseverything happens for a reason
and it's perfect.
The second one would be make itcount.
I think we live a life where wethink we have all the time in
the world and we're going tolive forever.
So every day I try to makeevery moment count.

(02:32):
And the third one I wrote is bethe change.
Be the change you wish to seein the world.
Don't wait for other people tolead.
Be the leader.
So those are the three that Ireally picked out for myself.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Those are great mottos and it kind of I mean
just hearing you talk about iteverything happens for a reason
be the change you want to see inthe world, coupled with the
work that you do as a life coachand a relationship coach.
So do you feel like thosemottos have kind of shaped you
into the career that you'vechosen for yourself and the work

(03:05):
that you do?
I know we're not constantlywalking through life thinking
like I want to embody this motto, yeah, but do you feel like you
know these mottos have kind oftranslated into the work that
you do as a life andrelationship coach?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
A hundred percent.
I think you know, as humans weare not really wired for growth.
I think we're wired more forprotecting and survival, and I
believe that's why the world andmental health and family in
general are not, are broken andnot working, because we have

(03:47):
many of us have not been giventhe nurturing, the role, the,
the, the teachers in our livesto show us the way.
And so I think it's reallyabout stretching ourself,
getting uncomfortable, but alsoloving who we are and where
we've been, because we cannotget to a place of love and joy

(04:10):
and connection and fulfillmentwhen we're stuck in this world
of fear and resentment and allthese low vibrations.
And so I think it's really upto us to really challenge
ourselves and realize that we'rehere for a reason.
We're not here just to take upspace and we're kind of just
waiting for that day to comeuntil, you know, god calls us.

(04:32):
But it's like you know, Iimagine myself, you know, when I
turned 40, and this was kind ofthe moment when I decided to
leave corporate and do somethingway more heart centered I was
turning 40 and I was sitting onmy couch and I thought about the
last 40 years of my life and mybackground is executive
software sales.
In that industry they pay you alot of money, they send you on a

(04:55):
lot of really amazing trips.
I had just won a trip to Rome,and the year before that I won a
trip to Bermuda, thinking thatthat was going to make me feel
like worthy and that I'm likeproving myself.
And coming back from those tripsI realized like okay, but now
what?
And so I pictured myself at thepearly gates of heaven at the

(05:18):
end of my life and St Petersaying to me, janelle, like what
did you do with your life?
And as extraordinary as my lifehas been like I've been able to
sing in front of Maya Angelou,I have met the Queen of England,
like spoke to her, got apicture with her, like I've
lived a pretty extraordinarylife and it was all about me.
And I really wanted the secondhalf of my life to be about

(05:42):
others, because I knew that I'mon this planet for a very
specific purpose.
And I think a lot of us gothrough life trying to figure
out what that is, and I thinkthe other half of us don't even
think about it.
We're just kind of, we're numb,we're like coasting through
life, we're on default and wejust react to life rather than

(06:05):
creating and being reallyintentional about where we're
going.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, I agree, I, you know, I work in tech as well,
not in sales.
I'm more on the marketing sideof things, but I interface with
sales a lot and as you weretalking about the different
opportunities that come withworking in sales, for tech and
traveling et cetera, I couldrelate to that by proxy, I

(06:36):
should say.
But I do admire that you kindof took a look at your life at
40 after working in corporatefor so long and you wanted to do
something more heart-centeredand, you know, pay it forward
and not just focus on thingsthat align, not just focus on
you but to share your gifts andfocus on other people.

(07:00):
So why specifically life andrelationship coaching?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Well.
So when I was nine, my dadcheated on my mom with my mom's
best friend who lived in ourbasement, and got her pregnant,
and that was when my lifecompletely got rocked right.
And even though my parents didget back together again and my
mom, you know and this is whereI really experienced forgiveness

(07:27):
at a whole other level Irealized that even though we got
our happy ending, I still had alot of trauma from that
experience and I knew how it wasshowing up, like.
I saw the impact, but Icouldn't get to the bottom of.
Why was I the way I was?

(07:48):
Why was I?
Why did I self-sabotage?
Why did I feel like I wasunworthy?
Why did I choose men that wereterrible, the ones I couldn't
bring home, the ones my parentswere like I don't think so the
ones that would cheat on me, theones that would lie, the ones
that would abuse me, like thoseones.
And so I took a really hardlook at myself and I hired a

(08:09):
coach to help me figure this out, and she was also helping me
with what is my life purpose,and it just completely
transformed my life in a veryshort amount of time and I got
to that level of it's almostlike Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz
, where we go from like blackand white to technicolor.

(08:29):
And so I really saw the powerof coaching in that experience
and I got to heal that littlegirl, that little nine-year-old
within me who, what I laterdiscovered, decided three things
and I'm sure a lot of peoplecan relate to this.
But I decided three things andI'm sure a lot of people can
relate to this.
But I saw that I created that,or I believe that I was
unlovable because I was adaddy's girl and like, why would

(08:52):
dad leave me?
Right, I can't trust men, Ican't trust people, I can't
trust myself and, thirdly,everybody I love will leave me.
So of course I'm going to gothrough life not really wanting
to find the perfect man becauseI'm like, well, he's going to
leave anyway.
So of course I'm going to gothrough life not really wanting
to find the perfect man becauseI'm like, well, he's going to
leave anyway.
But of course this was all inthe subconscious and so I've
been really interested insubconscious work and hypnosis,

(09:15):
in coaching.
And you know again, with mysales background and being able
to win all these differentawards, I have a really strong
background in goal setting andaccountability and that's that
sort of rigor.
So it's no surprise that mostof my clients are men or couples
.
But the other thing I would sayis I've also been divorced and

(09:38):
now I live in the mostincredible, epic love affair
with my husband, who is God'sgift to me.
He is my angel, he is myplaymate, he is my cook, he is

(09:59):
my cheerleader, he's my muse,and we just laugh a lot.
We play a lot of music.
He's a guitarist, I'm a singer.
We just have this amazing,romantic, very soulful and
vulnerable relationship that Icould have never imagined was

(10:19):
possible for me, and I don'tthink would have been possible
for me had I not done the workto heal all that stuff from
before, including my divorce andthe stuff with my dad and, of
course, all the other thingsthat come up when we're a kid
right, like even the positivestuff, like my mom is my hero.
And yet I see now standing back.
How you know, being raised by astrong mother who never cried,

(10:44):
who never asked for help, whonever complained, who always
said yes to everybody else,doesn't actually always work,
especially for me, and so it waslike trying to be someone that
I wasn't.
And when I finally started toask for help, when I finally
allowed myself to cry, when Iallowed myself to be in this

(11:06):
thing what we call quote unquoteweakness, which isn't even
really weakness but when I gotto shift that mindset and just
embrace who I am authenticallynow I could really step into my
power and that's why I think I'msuch a powerful coach.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Just listening to you talk, I'm really fascinated by
what you said relating to thesubconscious, Because I do
believe that a lot of us havesubconscious programming based
on trauma that we've endured,based on things that we've seen,
and a lot of times we're notaware of those subconscious
programming.
It becomes a self-fulfillingprophecy.
So I think that when you weretalking, it kind of reminds me

(11:46):
of you know.
A lot of people are inrelationships, whether romantic
or friendship, or evenrelationships with their
coworkers.
We're constantly navigatingdifferent types of relationships
and there's a story we tellourselves as we go from, you
know, as we interact in theserelationships.
And I think what you're reallytalking about, what you had a

(12:07):
breakthrough in while goingthrough coaching yourself, was
kind of realizing well, why am Iattracting these things to me?
Or why do I keep maybe datingthe same person with different
faces?
And I was listening to a podcastthat you were on where you were
talking about your firsthusband and how you were so
frustrated in that relationshipand you felt like he just was

(12:30):
not holding up his end of thebargain.
You felt like you were marryinga certain person and you were
so frustrated and I believe yousaid that one day you had an
epiphany when you realized that,wait a minute, what is my?
How can I hold myselfaccountable in this relationship
and how I show up that there'snothing wrong with this man.
He's just not the one for me.

(12:50):
And then you guys had aconversation and parted ways
amicably.
So can you talk about that alittle bit more, and a little
bit more of the subconsciousmind, and how, if we're not
aware and if we don't holdourselves accountable, we might
end up operating inrelationships that are not
self-serving to us?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, it is so easy to put the blame on everybody
and everything else because wedon't have to be responsible, we
don't have to do anything, wedon't have to change, we don't
have to look at ourselves.
It's like showering.
We don't have to be responsible, we don't have to do anything,
we don't have to change, wedon't have to look at ourselves.
It's like showering we don'thave to, but we choose to, but

(13:31):
we don't have to.
If we were really lazy, we justdon't brush our teeth and wash
our faces, but there's an impactto that.
And again, I didn't know it.
I had no idea that what wasgoing on.
All I could see was this manwho, if I said left, he said
right.
If I said good, he said bad,and it was like he resisted me
at every level and I'm like man.

(13:52):
And then, of course, trying toget him to take responsibility
for anything was impossible andI just kept getting so
frustrated and I started tobecome someone that I didn't
like.
I got really mean, if I'mreally honest.
I just got the ugliness of mecame out and he just, yeah, he

(14:13):
pulled that out of me.
And so when I did this trainingaround transformation, I
remember when they said that I'mactually responsible, like not
me, but like the group as awhole was responsible.
I got mad.
I was like, what Me?
I'm the victim how dare you saythat?
But then I really just it, justlike when I actually let my ego
go and really just sit with it.

(14:35):
I was like, oh, because, yeah,I could choose to blame him, but
where would that get me?
That would get me, first of all, jaded around marriage and he
would hold the power of my life,just like what happened with my
dad held the power of myworthiness.

(14:56):
And again, it's so easy to justblame other people, our past,
especially our parents, so easyto blame our parents.
But if we truly, truly want alife by design, by choice, with
freedom and joy, we have to bewilling to first of all forgive,
which is something that mostpeople don't even know the

(15:19):
meaning of and also to actuallystep into someone who we've
never been before.
And that is scary because thatis so foreign.
When I think about Janelle 2.0and this badass boss lady who is

(15:40):
impacting the planet I'm on TVshows, people are knocking down
my door I realize who I am nowand that woman.
There is a gap, and it's ascary gap because I'm like I
don't actually know what that'sgoing to be like.
And so I think so many of us,even though we want to lose that
40 pounds, even though we wantto find that perfect man, we

(16:01):
almost self-s self sabotage thatbecause it's so uncomfortable.
But here's the thing, guys likegrowth is uncomfortable, right,
and so I think we need toactually learn to be okay with
discomfort.
And you know, I I'm stilllearning this, because sometimes
, being an entrepreneur, I'mlike there's these moments where

(16:23):
I'm like man times.
Being an entrepreneur, I'm likethere's these moments where I'm
like man who thought this was agood idea, like I could have
just sat back, collected mybeautiful paychecks in sales,
did this job, like with my handtied behind my back, like in my
sleep.
And here I am like, stepping up, dealing with myself, dealing
with my ego, dealing with mytrust issues, dealing with my

(16:44):
not enough, dealing with my notenough, dealing with my who do
you think you are?
All those things that havestopped me in the past.
But then I remind myself thisisn't about me and I am robbing
the world of my gift if I allowthis to be about me.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yes, I think one of the hardest things for us as
people to do is turn the mirroron ourselves and take a look at
ourselves.
I think there is something thatshould be validated in the
experiences that we've had thathave led to trauma and us
developing some of thesesubconscious thoughts.
But at some point we have totake accountability and figure

(17:27):
out okay, why am I taking stufffrom the past?
Why am I taking other people'sstuff, like, aka, our parents,
for example, or our friends,whoever has had some sort of
impact on us?
Why am I taking their stuff andstill walking around the world
with it on my back and then, youknow, seeking out the same

(17:47):
experiences that were negativeand trying to prove to myself
again like, yeah, this is whyI'm who, I am Right.
So, speaking about, you know,with your ex-husband just him
bringing that side out of youand then you kind of realizing
his actions have nothing to dowith you.
It's more about how you'reshowing up in the relationship
and what you're choosing toaccept or what you're trying to

(18:10):
force yourself to align with,that actually no longer aligns
with you or you actually have togrow and move forward.
And I have an example.
You know I'm really close toone of my sisters and we are
just very different in terms ofhow we handle things.
She's the type of person thatwhen she's upset it just shows
on her face.
And you know, growing up thathas always been a point of

(18:33):
contention between her and I,because I would interpret that
as she's just making thingsdifficult and people have to
bend towards her and she's, youknow, affecting the energy of
the room and so that would justtrigger me so much.
And recently I had thisepiphany where I had to take a

(18:55):
step back and not necessarilylook at her actions but look at
why I was so triggered by themand the story I was telling.
Right, and we had aconversation where we both held
ourselves accountable.
But I also realized from thatthat it's okay for people to
have uncomfortable emotions andthe reason why I'm so

(19:17):
uncomfortable is because I can'tsit in discomfort when other
people are upset.
And I trace that back to, youknow, witnessing adults.
You know in my life whetherthey could be teachers or aunts
and uncles or family members.
Whenever they were upset as ayoung child I felt like it was
my responsibility to fix it.
So anytime I'm around a lovedone or anytime I'm around

(19:39):
someone who is emotionallyuncomfortable, it's a trigger
for me.
I internalize it as oh, it'sbecause I did something, et
cetera.
But yeah, I agree with you Ifwe don't face our stuff, it
could, you know, stop us fromactually being our true,
authentic selves are the bestversions of ourselves and the

(20:01):
selves that are sharing ourgifts with the world.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, everybody.
I believe that everybody is ourmirror, kind of to your point,
right, it's like for me, theexample that I can think of
right now is my husband.
My husband is very sensitive,like he is, he's intuitive, he's
sensitive, he's just asoft-hearted man, you know.

(20:25):
And growing up again, you know,I had a very strong mother and
so whenever my husband would getreally like sensitive with me
and when I say sensitive, not atme, but like he's just feeling
all his feelings right, and I'mnot used to that I'd be like I'd
try to shut it down.
I'd be like, oh my God, you'rebeing too emotional.
But Ariel's like, oh yeah,that's my, he is showing me how,

(20:47):
like you said, I'muncomfortable with men showing
emotion, like I have it that menshould be have put together and
yet I am not allowing thisperson to feel what they're
feeling.
And I think that's a reallygreat point in relationships is
that we try to fix each otherand we do this when we feel like

(21:10):
we need to fix ourselves.
But I've discovered that themore I love myself, the more I
practice compassion for myself,the more I can have that and
give that to others.
But if I don't do it for myself.
It's going to show up in theway I behave and show up in my
other relationships, and so,rather than being like, can you

(21:32):
please stop being emotional,it's really.
I've shifted that to now.
Hey, honey, like you can feelwhatever you want to feel, and
I'm not and I still love you andI, I got your back and I'm here
to support you.
I think, at the end of the day,that's what people need to hear.
But what we do is we go and fixand try to change and make them

(21:53):
feel better, or give themsolutions or tell them they
shouldn't feel that way, and weinvalidate them, which then
actually makes them feel worse.
But we don't realize thatbecause we're just like hey, I'm
just trying to help you.
But.
But we don't realize thatbecause we're just like hey, I'm
just trying to help you.
But at the end of the day, it'slike I don't need your help, I
just need you to sit with me,empathize with me, be my friend
and just get my communication,just like see me.
And this is really whatintimacy is, is into me, you see

(22:17):
but.
I feel like so few of usactually love ourselves enough
and are emotionally intelligentenough to realize that.
But what I'm feeling reallyhopeful about is I think it's
since COVID people are startingto wake up and I have, like I
said earlier, most of my clientsare men who are doctors,

(22:41):
lawyers, first responders, whohave very masculine if you want
to call them jobs, and they cometo these calls and they're like
yeah, I'm broken and I want towork on myself.
I'm like this is amazing.
And these men cry to me likewithin the first one or two
phone calls because they havenever allowed themselves or

(23:01):
someone in the people in theirlife have not made them feel
safe enough to be with all thosefeelings.
And so I find it such aprivilege and an honor to be
with men in those moments andalso the trust that they show
within the conversation to bereally authentic about their

(23:24):
emotions, because I think aswomen, we think men don't have
emotions.
Oh, abs, I would attest thatmen have more emotions than
women do.
We're just a lot more verbalabout it and very sort of
outwardly about it.
But these men, they suffer andmost of them have no permission
to feel what they feel or wetell them to man up and they

(23:48):
just feel so lost and broken,and so I think for me, it's
really just empowering them tosay listen, this is good, this
is good that you feel, and ifyou truly want to feel connected
to your partner and to who youare as a man, you got to be able
to learn to feel things beforeyou can heal things.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Ooh, I like that.
You have to learn how to feelthings before you can heal
things, and I actually pulled aquote from one of your blogs,
one of your more recent blogs.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
I love how you did research.
No one ever tells me this.
This is like I'm kind offlattered right now.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Oh, I have to.
I was really excited to speakwith you and also I want to get
the best out of our conversation.
And in one of your blogs youwrote emotions are human, not
male or female, which I thinkresonates or ties into what you
were just talking about.
And I also think it's veryinteresting that you said a lot
of your clients are men.
I was listening to anotherpodcast with a relationship

(24:45):
coach I'm forgetting his name,but he was saying that a lot of
his clients were also men and Iused to have this perception
that when it came torelationships or seeking out
life coaching, I just always hadthis impression that women
would seek that out more, justbecause we tend to be a little

(25:06):
bit more in tune, like you said,with our emotions and wanting
to get better in terms ofunderstanding our emotional
world, etc.
So the men that are coming toyou are they coming to learn
more about themselves so theycan show up better in their
relationships?
What are they seeking out whenthey actually come to you?
Because I find that veryinteresting.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, they come from for all sorts of reasons.
Obviously, the first one is howdo I win my wife back?
Or how do we work, how can Iwork with my wife better so that
we can get to this place?
Because usually, you know, mostof them come from divorced
parents or dysfunctionalfamilies and they're at this

(25:51):
point now that they're talkingabout divorce and they really
don't want to do that becausethey don't want to repeat the
past.
I have one client right nowwho's a lawyer, who's married to
another lawyer, and he's atthis point in his life that he's
like I just don't want to bewith her anymore.
It's not like anything's wrong,I'm just not happy and I've
done all the and we've done thework to make sure that it's not

(26:13):
about him and he's just like,yeah, she's just not my person
anymore.
And so he's been dealing withguilt and the shame of that,
because they've got kids and, ofcourse, being someone that's a
very high profile you know bothof them being very high profile
there's some, you know someconsiderations that they have to
make about, like what is theperception of us in this

(26:35):
industry?
And then I've got other clientsthat you know their wife has
left or said you know, I justwant to be friends, or I want to
date other people, and they aretrying to figure out who, they
are trying to love themselvesagain and not be so attached to
her coming back, because at theend of the day, they don't know.

(26:55):
And so I really give them thetools and the support to really
create a life that, regardlessif this person is in it or not,
is something they can get reallyexcited about and get their
confidence up.
And what happens is they startattracting women Like this.

(27:17):
You know, one of my clients islike, oh my gosh, all these
women are calling me and textingme and asking me for my number
and wanting to take me to bedand like this is crazy.
I don't even know what I'mdoing, but it's just like his
way of being.
His energy is so beautiful,right, but when he came to me he
was absolutely broken.
So, yeah, they come to me forall all different reasons.

(27:39):
Sometimes it's infidelity.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I get my wife to forgiveme and trust me again after
I've done this thing?
So, yeah, everything under thesun, which is so fun for me
because then it's not always thesame conversation.
But at the same time, you know,some people think I'm psychic

(27:59):
and I'm like I'm not psychic.
I just realized that we're notas different as we think we are.
We're all motivated by the samething and so it's not as
complicated like at theobviously in a very basic level,
like obviously there's otherstuff.
But yeah, there's times whenpeople are like, oh my God, how

(28:20):
did you know that you must bepsychic?
I'm like no Sure.
If you want to say that, fine,but no, I'm not.
I just see the patterns and Ican feel, and I'm also very
intuitive, so I can feel what'sgoing on and I can put words,
especially for men who can'tfind the words.
But as they're sharing, I'mlike here's what I'm hearing,

(28:47):
and they're like, yes, that'sexactly how I feel.
So I really help them get thevocabulary and get connected to
that.
So it's, it's so amazing and I,I love this work so much.
It's so much better thanselling software, I bet.
And you know to your pointabout them being like how?

Speaker 1 (28:57):
how do you know that?
I figured you know to yourpoint about them being like?
How do you know that?
I figured you know you've beendoing this for about two decades
now.
So I'm sure you can kind ofpick up on certain patterns and
just kind of understand howcertain conversations or certain
feelings or emotions that arecoming up could be tied into

(29:17):
certain feelings or actions etc.
So I could see that as well ontop of your intuition.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, you know what, if I'm going to be really honest
with you, it is really afunction of the experiences I
have had.
It's not even about myeducation, it's not even I mean,
yes, of course, experience, butI would definitely say it's
because I've been there.
I'm not that other person onthe other side that goes oh yeah
, I understand, I understand.

(29:44):
No, you don't, you've neverbeen there, but I've had so much
of life happen to me.
I've been bullied, I've beenmolested, I've been cheated on.
I've had so much.
And so when a client comes tome, there's very few times that
I cannot relate to them, and Ithink it's energetic too.
I think we just attractnaturally attract people that

(30:09):
are aligned with what we'redoing, and so usually, by the
time a client gets to me on aconsult, I would say 90% of them
have gone through somethingthat I've gone through, and I
think, at the end of the day,the end of the day, what I see
my job is and what people truly,truly are looking for, is to

(30:30):
feel gotten to know they're notalone and to validate their
existence, because we spend somuch time resisting who we are.
I should be skinnier, I shouldbe richer, I should be happier.
I should, should, should,should, should, right, and to
just have them be like, hey, whoyou are right now is perfect.

(30:50):
The fact that you're strugglingright now is perfect, the fact
that you know it's all perfect.
And when we can get to thatlevel of peace and acceptance,
and when we can get to thatlevel of peace and acceptance
now we can discover this thingcalled happiness.
But I think that very few of ushave the tools and the know-how

(31:11):
how to be able to find our wayout of it.
And, to be honest, when we'reinside of it and we're in the
thick of it, it doesn't matterhow many thousands of books and
courses we've done.
Our survival mechanisms and ourdefense mechanisms and our
stress coping mechanisms willshow up.
But it's okay.
When I get there, you know, Imight spend a few minutes like
dealing with my humanity, butthen, once I get out of that,

(31:34):
I'm like, okay, I need to gointo my toolbox.
What do I need right now that'sgoing to have me move through
these emotions as quickly aspossible?
And or is this this momentwhere I just need to be with the
discomfort and just like sit init, and I usually give myself a
certain amount of time.

(31:54):
I might you know if it's a bigthing which I went through a
couple of weeks ago.
I promised myself okay, janelle, you'll give yourself till
tomorrow.
You can cry, you can dowhatever you need to do, feel
your pity party, and thentomorrow you get back up.
So I, you know, I allow myselfthat grace and space and that's,
I think, what I provide to myclients.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, it really sounds like you do that, and you
said a couple of things thatsparked my curiosity, especially
with the coach Sorry,especially with the client, who
has gotten to the point where heno longer feels that spark with
his wife or he feels like he'soutgrown her and he's feeling
guilt about that.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
And when we think about marriage, when a lot of
people think about marriage,they go into it with the
intention of till death, do uspart, and I think that's also
why a lot of people are soscared of being vulnerable and
opening up to someone andgetting married and having it
end.
So I want to ask you, and I'mgoing to ask you down the line

(33:01):
when is it time to walk away orwhen do you think it's okay to
give yourself permission toleave a relationship?
But I want to start off byasking you first what do you
think people get wrong aboutromantic relationships?
Because I feel like sometimespeople might be in the clouds
and have this sense ofeverything is supposed to be

(33:24):
perfect if you find your personand nobody wants to deal with
the difficulties.
Some people leave earlier thanthey should, some people stay in
it longer than they should.
So again, what do you thinkpeople get wrong about the
nature of romantic relationships?
And that's a loaded question.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I know I'm like, oh my God, where do I even begin?
I would say the first thing isself-love.
They go into relationshipssaying I don't love myself, so
I'm gonna go find someone tolove me and fill that gap.
But that is not the otherperson's job.
The other person doesn't knowwhat you need.

(34:04):
They got their own stuff goingon right, and we put so much
expectation on other people tomake us happy.
But let's be straight the onlyperson who knows what's going to
make us happy is us.
But most people don't do thework to figure out what that is
Like.
When I meet with clients, they,you know, they start just

(34:25):
telling me all the things theydon't like about their life.
Right, all the things they wantto change.
I'm like, okay, great, so tellme what do you want?
And they look like I just askedthem something in Chinese, you
know they're like huh, and theydon't even know their value
system.
So how can you set boundarieswith people or even yourself, if

(34:45):
you don't even know your valuesystem?
And so when I went through myif you want to call it midlife
crisis or transition, that wasthe first place my coach got me
to look is like what are myvalues, because what I realized
like I thought that money andsuccess was high on my value
system, but when I had that, itdidn't matter.
So I had to really, really lookat okay, what really is it that

(35:07):
I value?
So that's one thing.
I think the other thing is thatwe have to be able, again,
going back to self-love, we haveto be able to heal the parts of
us that need to be healed.
Otherwise, our partner, theother person, is going to be the
target, if you will, or thefocus of our own unhappiness.

(35:30):
And I think the third thing isthat we have been programmed by
social, especially social media,that it's all about protecting
yourself.
And I think that although, yeah, you know, sure, that's
important, but how can youexperience true passion and

(35:54):
vulnerability and intimacy whenall you're trying to do is keep
everyone away from you and toreally know who you are?
And I think that's whyvulnerability is so powerful.
And if we can shift the ideathat vulnerability is weakness
to a place like no,vulnerability is the key to

(36:14):
intimacy.
And being with my husband, thisman who just has his heart on
his sleeve and just pours loveinto me 24-7, like I get the
power of that and also theresponsibility of that, of
having a man who just hasnothing going on about any of my
flaws and just wants to love meand be my partner and create

(36:41):
this beautiful life together.
That's all he wants from me.
But if I'm not careful, I'lleither take advantage of that or
I'll get into my head and I'llstart focusing just on work and
I forget that here's this manwaiting for me downstairs and
I'm working till 11 o'clock atnight and then he wants some
action from me.

(37:01):
But I'm too tired.
And now, knowing that his lovelanguage is physical touch, and
now I'm rejecting him, notbecause of him but because I'm
tired, now that's going to startcreating stories for himself
and reiterating his childhoodtrauma of being rejected, and
the more I do that, the morethat's going to be reaffirmed.

(37:23):
So we have to be really carefuland very present in our
relationships and again, if wehaven't done the work, it's so
easy to go there.
And then I would say the fourththing is expectations.
I think we, especially women,we have expectations of how a
man, a real man, should be basedon our dad, our social media,

(37:49):
disney movies, and we think thatif it's hard work, that that's
bad and that it should justmagically come together.
And yeah, sure, you know thefirst three to six, maybe year
together.
It's easy because we're socommitted to creating that
connection.
But then what happens?
When you've been together for20, 30, 40 years, there's no

(38:12):
more kids.
You've gone through like theups and downs of life.
That's really, really hard, andI think one of the problems I
see in when I'm coaching peopleis that we you know back to what
I said 20 minutes ago is thatwe expect our partner to know
exactly what to say to us,exactly what we need, and that
we shouldn't have to ask, likewe have this belief that if he

(38:35):
loved me, he should just know myneeds.
And so I'll coach a woman.
I'll say, okay, well, you sayyou want reassurance and you say
that he doesn't appreciate you,but he's trying and it hasn't
worked.
So let me ask you what is itthat you actually need from him
specifically?

(38:55):
What do you need him to say?
What do you need him to do?
Like what?
And she can't answer my questionand she keeps deflecting and
being like well, he should justfigure it out.
Well, guess what?
He's tried to figure it out andyou've squashed that, and you
are setting him up for failure,so let's set him up to win.
And then her response is well,then it's inauthentic.

(39:16):
Yeah, but his authenticresponse is not good enough for
you.
So what do you want?
So we have to be responsiblefor that.
And again, I think it's justthese beliefs that we ingrained
were somehow from somewhere, Idon't know where.
But to get responsible, likeokay, well, what if that wasn't
true?
And what if it?
If the shoe was on the otherfoot?
How would I feel about that?

(39:37):
I would feel pretty dangfrustrated.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, you said so much there.
Oh, my God, I don't even knowwhere to start from.
Okay, I know where to startfrom, actually, and I think you
hit the head on the nail whenyou said this, and I heard this
from a TikTok therapist.
Obviously, tiktok is it's likewhere I get so much information
from, but I was also feelingthis way after going through my

(40:02):
own personal journey and stufflike that.
You know, a lot of times, whenit comes to relationships,
people are always talking aboutattachment theory, what a man is
supposed to do, what a woman issupposed to do, how you're
supposed to show up in arelationship and healing and all
that stuff, and that stuff isvalid.
But you said something whereyou were like a lot of people
don't love themselves, and Ithat was.

(40:23):
You hit that right on the headbecause I do think that is an
important piece that a lot ofpeople are not aware of.
And somebody might ask what doesit mean to love yourself?
Loving yourself at least I'mstill learning is understanding
that you're this human beingthat is flawed and you're always

(40:44):
evolving and you're trying yourbest and you also have a level
of self-respect for yourself,not in a way that you're
condescending to other people,but you respect yourself to
recognize when someone is nottreating you correct and you
respect yourself enough to notdemean or indignify someone

(41:04):
else's experience or personhood.
That's what I'm understandingself-love is all about, and so
much more.
I'm sure I'm missing a lot ofstuff there, but I do think a
lot of people don't lovethemselves and they enter
relationships hoping theirpartner can heal a lot of the
void that they feel withinthemselves.
I know that some of the moredifficult relationships that

(41:26):
I've navigated throughromantically have come from a
point of feeling like somethingwas missing within me and
looking for someone else to feelthat and literally running
crazy when I felt like theperson wasn't adhering to my
needs or saying the right things.
Because the truth of the matteris we're not always going to

(41:47):
say the right things.
That's just what it is.
We're human beings, again, likewe're flawed.
So I really loved that you saidthat, because when we love
ourselves, then we're notputting everything on our
partner.
I think a lot of people youknow put so much on their
partners unintentionally.

(42:07):
They want their partner to betheir best friend.
And not saying that this isimpossible, because I do think
some people are fortunate enoughto have very wholesome, loving
relationships where theirpartner is like their best
friend and all that good stuff.
But, like you said, it takestime to get to that point.
Sometimes it takes intentionalwork, lots of conversations,

(42:28):
understanding each other,growing together, et cetera.
So everything you said was spoton, but that one really stuck
out to me and I don't know ifyou want to add anything else to
that.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Just like you were saying,someone said to me hey, Janelle,
do you love yourself?
I've been like, yeah, sure, whynot?
Right?
But as I go through what I gothrough as an entrepreneur, as a
woman who is really trying tobe, quote unquote, enlightened
and, you know, a healer, the onething that I saw that was

(43:01):
missing for me, that was nevertaught to me, was
self-compassion.
I am, you know, a lot of women.
We are high achievers, we areperfectionists, we are people
pleasers, we want to besuperwoman.
And the thing that I noticedfor myself is I would beat
myself up.
You know, let's say my goal was$10,000 for the month.

(43:26):
That's my goal, okay, I'm goingto hit that, I'm going to hit
that, and then I only hit $6,000.
And then I would beat myself upabout it.
I would make myself wrong.
I'd be like, hey, what am Idoing wrong?
I would pray to God, god, whatam I doing wrong?
This shouldn't be so hard andnot acknowledging I made $6,000.
And I'm helping six new peoplewhose lives are now transformed

(43:51):
because of the work we're doingtogether.
But I was a competitive dancersince I was four.
I did Royal Conservatory ofMusic since I was six, I
graduated Honors High School,university and Royal
Conservatory.
Like, I've always lived thisvery high expectation type of
life and it really as amazing asthat is there was very little

(44:16):
space for my own failures, formy own failures, for my own
humbleness and just being okaywith that.
Oh my gosh, I'm not perfect.
Oh, okay, so that so, and I'mstill lovable.
So I think that's a lot.
You know, when I work withwomen, that's the kind of women

(44:37):
that I attract, the ones thatare just like beating themselves
up because they don't, they'renot perfect 110% of the time.
And so you know, one of you know, when I think about my values
or when I, when I really thinkabout them, my values that I
discovered is it's fun freedom,family, faith and flow.

(45:00):
So it's like when I getfrustrated, when I feel
overwhelmed, when I get anxious,I stop and I go.
Okay, am I in integrity with myvalue system?
And it's always a no.
And I think a lot of times weget stuck in the doing this like
it's a very masculine energy.

(45:20):
Second, the doingness like it'sa very masculine energy, and we
need to be able to pause, getback into our feminine energy
and that is in the beingness,the energy that flows from
within.
That then dictates how we dosomething, rather than just the
doing right, like having sex,you could just go and physically

(45:41):
do it, but for me, before youknow, before that happens, I
really work on my being, I workat getting to my feminine, I
work on going into my gratitude,I go into appreciation and I
get present to the awesomenessof my husband so you know, the

(46:02):
action is still the same, butthe beingness that propels that
action is completely different.
So I'm going to show up very,very differently.
And so I think that's what alot of people forget is that you
could go through life doingthese things.
But what if you could gothrough life doing these things
from a way of being?
That would then be superpowerful and, honestly, a lot

(46:26):
more genuine, rather than this,like I have to do this, I have
to, so it's all force andobligation, rather than a
genuine, authentic place of loveand service.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yes, I think.
Yes, you said that perfectlyand just to make sure I'm fully
understanding you, I think whatyou're saying part of that
self-love is allowing yourselfto not be perfect and giving
yourself freedom to do thethings that align with your
value systems and your interests.
Rather than I have to do this,I have to show up this way, I
value systems and your interests.
Rather than I have to do this,I have to show up this way.

(47:05):
I have to, I have to, I have to.
And the more we feel like wehave to do something, the
further away we're drifting frombeing ourselves really.
And I think real self-love isgiving yourself permission to
not be perfect.
That doesn't mean don't striveto be better.
It just means that being betteris also making sure that you're

(47:29):
aligned with what is better foryou, not what you think is
supposed to be better for you.
So I kind of want to go alittle bit deeper and get into
the whole marriage topic.
Right, because I said that Iwas.
I had mentioned about 10 minutesago that I was curious about

(47:50):
your client who was at a pointwhere he outgrew his
relationship.
Nothing was really nothingwrong or crazy is going on, but
he just feels like she's nolonger his person.
Crazy is going on, but he justfeels like she's no longer his
person.
So when we talk about marriage,do you feel like marriage
should be lifelong?
How should people think aboutmarriage when they choose to

(48:14):
embark on it?
Because I know there are a lotof divorces but nobody really
wants to get to that point and Ithink that's what your client
is struggling with as well thatguilt of we're married, we have
a family, but now I want toleave it, even though there's
nothing wrong.
But I just know that they'renot my person.
So can you speak to that alittle bit?

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, well, you know, I think there's two
distinctions.
I think there's what I thinkmarriage is about and I think
then there's what my clientsthink marriage is about.
I really don't.
I'll share my point of view,but I don't expect my clients to
have the same moral beliefsthat I do.

(48:54):
And this guy actually said tome he's like Janelle, I know you
save marriages, but how aboutme?
And I just said to him I saidlistenelle, I know you save
marriages, but how about me?
And I just said to him I saidlisten, I just want you to have
an extraordinary life.
That's what this is reallyabout.
And if having an extraordinarylife is, you see, that without
her, and you've really done thework, you've looked, you've made

(49:16):
the effort, you've takenactions, you've been accountable
, you've, you know, doneeverything you can possibly do
to try to bring it back to thatpoint, and it hasn't worked.
And if you know, in your gutand I think that's the big thing
is, we don't listen to our gut,we listen to what everybody

(49:37):
else says we should do, if yourgut says you're done, because
he's been feeling this way for acouple of years, it's not like
it just happened last week.
And I said if you truly feeldone, and when you think about
the future and you think aboutit without her, you're excited
and you're happy and you get tofeel authentically you, because
that was part of it.

(49:58):
He's like I don't feel like Iget to be me around her, and
which is a big thing, right, youknow.
And so he's done it.
But what's so cool is that youknow, through coaching him,
because his biggest fear waslike how do I minimize the car?
He calls it the carnage.
I said consider it doesn't haveto be carnage.
Consider that if you include her, be vulnerable with her, share

(50:22):
with her what you're doing, whatyou're dealing with, what
you're grappling with, that, ifyou do choose to leave, that she
doesn't feel like it's abouther.
She knows that it has nothingto do with her and everything to
do with you and just thechoices that you want to make in
your life.
And so he made this move lastweek and he's like Janelle, I
did it and he's, like you know,did it.

(50:45):
And he's like you know, she wasupset but she got it and I he's
like I expected her to justlike be freaking out and crying,
but because I've been sharingwith her this whole journey of
what I'm up to, she's able toaccept where I'm at and we're
now able to work on thiscompletion as a team, rather
than this ugly, messy thing andI think that's part of it is

(51:06):
like you know, society tells usthat marriage has to be ugly and
messy and dramatic and you knowand all these things, and it
doesn't.
It's really in the way weconduct ourselves.
But again, it takes a wholelevel of.
I honestly don't know howpeople will do it without a
third person.
I think you need that, thatneutrality, that that person to

(51:28):
be in the middle of it, without,without judgment and without
bias, to really support them inthat process.
So I'm so like inspired by that.
But back to your question.
I think you know people ask meall the time Janelle, can I save
my marriage?
And my answer is always alwaysyes, if you are both committed

(51:55):
to it.
But if one person is and theother person isn't, well, it's
gonna be really, really hard.
Now, it's not impossible,because I've worked with couples
where one person wants to.
Well, it's going to be really,really hard.
Now, it's not impossible,because I've worked with couples
where one person wants to.
And then what I realized indoing the work privately is that
they got work to do.
And when they shift theirenergy, when they get
responsible, when they stopbeing the victim, all of a

(52:17):
sudden the other person startsto come back, starts to feel
comfortable, starts to feel safe, starts to feel comfortable,
starts to feel safe, starts tocommunicate more, starts to
support and all of a sudden theyhave this whole new
relationship.
That was not possible before,just because one person was the
change and that energy shiftedthe energy of everything else

(52:40):
around them and that energyshifted the energy of everything
else around them.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
That was brilliant, thank you.
It's interesting.
You said something about yourclient, about he didn't feel
like he could be himself aroundher, wanting to do it the right
way and seeking out yourcoaching, rather than just, you
know, pulling the carpet fromunderneath her and having

(53:08):
conversations with her andtaking a couple years to think
about it, because I think youknow it shows how much he had a
lot of love for her, yeah, andwanting to still protect that
relationship, even though itwould be taking on a different
form and not husband and wife,but probably co-parenting and
friends.
So I really applaud how he wentabout that but also kind of

(53:30):
understood and acknowledged.
You know, I can't really fullybe myself around this person and
I do think it's important thatyou know when you're with a
long-term partner, you should bewith someone who you can be
yourself around, even on yourworst days and on your good days
.
I mean, I don't know everysingle thing about the
intricacies of his life.

(53:51):
Obviously, this is just anexample, but I do think that
that's important.
And to your point about ittakes two to tango If a
relationship should work, ittakes two people wanting to make
it work.
But to your point too thatthere's sometimes there's one
person in the relationship,unfortunately, that tends to be
more of an aggressor and has aheavier energy.

(54:13):
That is actually putting a hugestrain on the relationship.
So once that person switchestheir energy, then their partner
is able to come around and belike okay, this is a safer
environment for me to work in,to kind of fix this relationship
as well.
So I also like that perspectiveand, you know, in general it
makes me want to ask you I feellike there's this like gender

(54:38):
war going on or at least that'swhat it seems like online a lot
of times where it's like menagainst women but we want to
date each other.
But there's this level ofintolerance on both sides or
narratives that are, you know,spread often that I think keep
people afraid of, like you said,opening up, being vulnerable

(54:59):
and finding the right partner.
So what is your take on thegender war?
Do you perceive it that way?
And also, what do you thinkwomen get wrong about men and
what do you think men get wrongabout women?

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, those are really great questions.
I think I alluded to it earlierabout the expectation.
I think that's a big one.
The one, the number onecomplaint of men about women and
I agree with this is that and Ithink I talked a little bit

(55:33):
about it earlier was just thatthere's so much expectation to
be perfect and to know exactlywhat there is to do and men are
emasculated.
Men will do what they don't,are not naturally known to do
and instead of being appreciatedfor it, they get criticized and

(55:54):
judged and put down and so.
And then we wonder why our menstop doing those things.
And you know, when I talk toguys, guys are like well, why
would I go do that?
She's going to tell me I did itwrong anyway.
So I'm just going to savemyself the disappointment and
rejection and just not do it.
I think fear is a big piece.

(56:15):
We have three or four reallycore fears fear of being alone,
fear of being judged core fears,fear of being alone, fear of
being judged, fear of rejectionand fear of failure.
And I think, until we canreally understand that fear does
not have to limit us that isjust a thought, it's not like in

(56:36):
reality and that we can takeaction despite a fear, like this
guy right who wanted to, didn'twant to leave his wife, but
kind of did.
He's like, you know, I'm scaredwhat she's going to do.
I'm scared of what she's goingto say.
I'm scared she's going to cry.
I'm scared she's going to beangry.
I'm like, yeah, and guess whatshe probably will.
And if you just not resist itand just go into it knowing that

(56:59):
she's totally allowed to feelthat way and just honor that,
maybe you can actually still,regardless of those fears, do
what there is to do.
And that's what he did.
But it took, you know, it took acouple of weeks for him to get
the guts to finally say so,cause he's a kind of a very soft
man, he's a very he's a peoplepleaser and she's very strong

(57:24):
like alpha woman, and so hewould say something like I'm
unhappy, or I don't know if thismarriage is going to work.
She's like, no, no, no, no,that's not happening.
No, you're just, you're justmaking it up.
You're, you know, you're justhaving a midlife crisis.
There was just a lot, of, a lotof justification and excuses
she created to invalidate howhe's feeling, and so then he

(57:45):
would question himself.
He's like, oh, maybe I am justhaving a midlife crisis, oh,
maybe I do need to go tocounseling.
But he's like I don't want togo to counseling, though.
Like I don't see how couplestherapy is going to make me
change my mind.
But because he was afraid tosay no to her, he was just like,
oh, okay, maybe, like no, justsay no, right.
So I think that's part of it.

(58:07):
I think what else?
So women, okay.
So we talk about how we all wantto feel appreciated, and so
I'll say to a woman okay, goappreciate.
If you want appreciation,here's your assignment.
Go and appreciate your husband.
And they get upset with me.
Why should I do that?

(58:28):
He doesn't do anything for me.
Why does he have to do anythingfor him to be appreciated?
Like, why can't you justappreciate him for the person
that he is?
You appreciate your kids.
Your kids don't do anything.
They're just, they make a mess.
They eat your kids.
Your kids don't do anything.
They're just.
They make a mess.
They eat your food, they spendyour, they spend your money, but
you appreciate them.
So why is that different fromfor a man?
And I think you know if I'mreally honest, I think that's

(58:50):
been.
The secret ingredient to myhusband being this extraordinary
husband is that I acknowledgethe crap out of him, because I
know his love language is verbalaffirmations.
I know that when he was a kidhe got bullied because he was
really fat.
He got rejected.
He was insecure.
Girls would laugh at him whenhe would ask them out, and so

(59:15):
for me to be like hey, you knowwhat?
You're an amazing human being,for no reason other than that
you just are.
He gets to feel validated andguess what?
He lost a hundred pounds.
This man is buff and ripped andgorgeous.
He cooks, he cleans and I don'thave to ask anything.

(59:36):
He does it all because he wantsto, and I think it's because I
appreciate him.
And I think that's what'smissing in marriages a lot,
because, at the end of the day,honestly, men just want to make
us happy.
Like when I get people to fillout, like what are your goals
for our work together?
Women are like I want my husbandto do this, I want him to

(59:56):
support me, I want him to do, do, do, do, do.
Men, I just want to feelappreciated, that's all.
And I just my heart, just likeoh, I get it, I get it.
And it's so simple and yet sodifficult.
But again, like this is thepower of coaching when I can
just keep reiterating that andthey see that I'll just say to
them just try it, just for thisweek, just try what I'm saying

(01:00:19):
to you, and all of a sudden theycome back.
They're like, oh my God, myhusband's a totally different
man.
Yeah, it's not that hard.
But again, I think we are just,we're so chintzy I don't know
if that's a bad word but we'rejust so chintzy when it comes to
appreciation, because we'relike someone should do something
really big in order to gain myquote, unquote appreciation.

(01:00:44):
So now we're training peoplethat they have to be or do
something in order to bevaluable in this world.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yeah, and what do you think men get wrong?

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
about women.
I think the simple one is thatemotions are bad and that the
other thing, too is men alwaysthink it's their fault, right,
and that's why this wholecriticism and judgment thing is
is very, very tedious is that wereally need to be able to
change the way we communicateand Like, even if he gets it

(01:01:15):
wrong, say you know what, thanksanyway, like I appreciate the
effort and can I just show you abetter way to do things Right?
It's not like thiscondescending tone.
And I think for men, you know,I imagine especially men when
they come to me as littlefive-year-old boys who just say
can you please just love me?

(01:01:36):
Right, they just want to makeus happy, they just want to be
like good boy, and I don't meanthat in a condescending way, but
let's think about it Like thelittle part of us just wants to
be loved, just wants to beaccepted, just the way we are,
right, and I think for menthat's even more more so.
So, yeah, I would say thatthat's the number one thing, is

(01:01:59):
the communication, the emotions,and that it's not their fault
and that they have to listen.
So here's one distinction thatI would teach.
I would say consider that underevery complaint is a desire, so
don't listen to the complaint.
You want to listen, for what isit that they actually want?

(01:02:20):
Now, that's coming from a veryempowered place versus the oh
crap, I screwed up, she doesn'tlove me.
She's telling me I'm not goodenough.
She's telling me I'm a terriblefather.
She's telling me I'm a terriblehusband.
No, she has a desire that she'sasking, and she's just
communicating it in a way thatmaybe doesn't work.
But if you know how to listen,you're not going to get

(01:02:40):
triggered, because then whathappens is then now the walls go
up, now he goes into his caveand he shuts down, he numbs out,
goes to play video games orwhatever he does to numb out,
and that's what we don't want.
And so we need to learn how to,first of all, get responsible
about how we communicate, andthen, secondly is like how do we

(01:03:01):
bring respect and communicationinto it so that we actually
both get what we want?

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, I think you said the perfect words respect
and communication.
I think for a lot of women, Ithink there are just certain
things that we tend to be alittle bit better at than men,
like sometimes, for example,when it comes to planning.
So we might end up beingnitpicky about how certain
things are done.
But, to your point, I think menneed to recognize that as a

(01:03:32):
strength and not necessarilyyou're not good enough, you
don't know how to handle this,et cetera.
But I also think that for a lotof women, I think it's in our
nature to be nurturing.
But I think that there's been ahistory of where I think, just

(01:03:52):
because of how the world was,you know, very patriarchal.
Uh, you know, men are theproviders, women are the
nurturers.
So we kind of found ourselveshaving to do that.
It comes off like anexpectation, it's in our nature,
but sometimes it comes off likean expectation.
So I think women get reallyfrustrated when their partner

(01:04:17):
you know, the man that they'rewith does not acknowledge that
part of them.
So it feels like they're notbeing appreciated, Right, kind
of like the same way you'retalking about that.
You know, a man doesn't have todo anything for them to be
appreciated, and I think mostwomen want to be with a man that

(01:04:38):
allows them to fully be them.
They're fully, you know,immerse themselves in their
feminine energy, because thatman is really honoring them as
well and acknowledging andtreating them well.
Right, like when you talk aboutyour husband and how well he
treats you.
I think it's, you know, granted, you love him so much he

(01:05:00):
doesn't have to do that for youto love him.
But I'm sure that helps, right,you know, with with how well he
treats you and how well hetakes care of you.
You know you automaticallybuild that level of respect and,
you know, adore him because ofhow nicely he's treating you.
Right, I also think about, youknow, I'm my dad, right, he's a

(01:05:23):
girl that, and he's very muchlike you know, when he comes to
see me, he's like, what do youneed me to do?
Like, do you need to hang thisup on your wall?
Have you looked at your car?
And he's my dad.
He doesn't need to do that forme to love him.
It's just kind of built in me,but it makes me love him so much
more, it makes me respect himso much more, and I think a lot
of women sometimes getfrustrated, especially when they

(01:05:44):
have children, and it's like,well, I'm, you know,
breastfeeding, I'm doing all ofthis and you're just kind of
chilling on on the couch andit's Valentine's day and you
couldn't even get me flowers,right?
So it's like, how can Iappreciate you when there are
opportunities for you to kind ofappreciate me?
And I'm not talking foreveryone, right, it's not like a
man versus woman, but I'm justtrying to speak for the women

(01:06:07):
who might have that frustrationand be like you know.
So that was a lot of that was arant but I'll stop and have you
here's, yeah, here's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Here's the issue I come up up against.
There is no communication aboutthe expectation.
That's the problem.
There has to be communicationand an agreement about what is
required and needed.
Listen, my husband didn't comeout like this out of the box.
You know, when we first starteddating, I was very clear, like
here's what I expect, here aremy values, here's what I think a

(01:06:39):
man and a woman or marriageshould look like, here's what
you can expect from me, here'swhat I expect from you.
And so I think our relationshipis so easy because we
completely know what is expectedof each other.
And when there's a breakdown,it's not from a place of wrong
making or blame, it is reallyfrom, like, a team effort.

(01:07:01):
It's like, okay, we have thisbreakdown and here's what I can
get responsible for.
I assumed that you were goingto go do that and I did not.
I did not communicate or checkin with you of that.
So next time I'm.
So this is, this is ourconversation.
It is always and this is thefunny and the cute thing about
us we both take over, like we'reoverly responsible.

(01:07:22):
So he'll take responsibilityfor things that are mine and
I'll take responsibility forthings that are his.
And so we're actually fightingabout whose responsibility it is
and I'm like, honey, no, no, no, that was me.
And he's like no, no, no, baby,that was me, like I should have

(01:07:46):
you know, and it's just, it'sso opposite of, like most
couples.
But I think again back to mypoint is there exists in
communication, not just anycommunication, in this
empowering, not demanding, notnagging, not passive, aggressive
, like really from a place ofmaturity.
And I think you know back towhat we talked about in the
first few minutes, it's like wehave these assumptions of how

(01:08:07):
men should treat us, how theythink about.
I tell my husband baby, when I'mupset, I need you to look at me
, I need you to turn the TV off,I need you to just shut your
mouth and listen.
Don't try to fix me, don't tryto change me, don't give me
advice.
And when I'm done, I need a hug, I need you to tell him you

(01:08:28):
love me and I need you to go getme some ice cream.
And so every single time heknows exactly the formula, that
he needs to follow theinstruction manual, so that at
the end of it I'm like, oh, baby, thank you.
That was exactly what Iexpected from you.
But I set him up to win and Ithink a lot of people don't I

(01:08:53):
would say 99.9% of people do nothave that conversation before
things happen.
So, like if we have areoccurring argument that sounds
very familiar and there's likethis, this, this, this, this
consistent back and forth, we'llactually talk about it.
So it's like, you know, one ofthe conversations is about when

(01:09:15):
you know and this hasn'thappened.
Honestly, we haven't had afight in like 10 years.
But there's this thing where hewould talk and I would get
frustrated and I would say, hey,honey, I'm getting really
frustrated, this conversationisn't going anywhere and I need
to go for a walk, I need atimeout.
And he would not let me have mytimeout.

(01:09:36):
He would keep talking andtalking and I would say, honey,
if you don't stop, I'm going toget really upset and I'm
probably going to say somethingreally mean, because that's my
way of defending myself, right,I get really mean.
Kept going, kept going.
So that's what happened and itkept happening over and over
again, and so I had to just havethis conversation with him and

(01:09:56):
I'm like you need to give me myfive minutes.
And he said to me like he wasso honest.
He's like babe, the reason Idon't give you that five minutes
is I'm scared that you're goingto leave and you're not going
to come back.
And I'm like no, honey, I justneed that to come back from my
crazy brain to think like anormal person and to just get

(01:10:18):
out of my, out of my emotions sothat I could actually have a
rational conversation with anadult, like with me.
And he's like oh, okay, so nowthat we have this understanding,
it never happened ever again.
And when I say I need a timeout and honestly I don't even
need timeouts anymore because weare so good at communicating
things and we're such a teamLike again we probably haven't

(01:10:46):
had an argument in like 10 yearsit's so easy, but yeah, it
takes work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Yeah, oh, I love that level of communication because
there's like self-awarenessbaked into that.
I think a lot of times peopleare communicating but they're
not even self-aware about what'sdriving them.
I love that your husband waslike I'm scared you're going to
leave.
Like, if you take that fiveminutes, you're going to come
back and be like, oh deuces, I'mout of here and you're just
kind of like, no, I actuallyneed that.
So I don't, you know, bite yourhead off.

(01:11:08):
So that level of self-awarenessto communicate so tactfully, I
think is really important and Ithink a lot of people don't have
right and we're all a work inprogress and you know the term
oh, that's toxic, you're in atoxic relationship is thrown out
so much.
Yeah, that whenever people runinto a season of having lots of

(01:11:31):
uncomfortable arguments andconversations, they're like, oh,
this is so toxic.
This is not my person and youknow I'm.
There's a part of me thatbelieves that relationships
shouldn't be that hard.
If you're two people who wantthe relationship and you want to
work towards it and you'reself-aware and you know how to
communicate, I don't think itshould be that hard.
But I also know that there's athere's another part where you

(01:11:52):
have to get to, you know, learneach other.
So how can someone tell when,okay, this is not the
relationship for me?
Because, honestly, sometimesyou get to a point where it's
like, no matter how much youcommunicate, you just kind of
realize like we're not actuallyas compatible versus like no,
there's something here thatshould be worked out.
It's not necessarily toxic.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Yeah, well, I think, before I even answer that, I
think one of the things that wehave to remember and this is I'm
going to point to the ego for aminute we have to remember that
it's not about us how peoplebehave, it's not about us, it's
about them, and we take thingsso personally.
We think, you know, oh, they'renot talking, they're in a weird
mood, it must be something I'mdoing.

(01:12:34):
You know, oh, they're nottalking, they're in a weird mood
, it must be something I'm doing.
You know, and you know, talkingabout self-awareness in that
last conversation, you know I'msuper again communication with
my husband.
I'm like, babe, just so, youknow, like I'm totally dealing
with myself right now and I'mkind of in a crappy mood.

(01:12:55):
So, just so you know, like I'ma little grumpy because X, y, z
happened today and I just wantyou to get it's not about you
and I'm just working on myself,and so he doesn't have to read
into anything, he doesn't haveto ask me am I okay?
Every five minutes and samething with him.
Like if I can feel his energyfunky, I'll check in with him
once or twice.
I'll be like, hey, everythingokay.
He's like, yeah, baby, I'm just.

(01:13:16):
You know I'm dealing with workstuff.
Okay, great, don't have tothink about it, don't have to
make it personal.
I can go and do my own thingand not have to worry about him.
But I think sometimes we justtake things so personally and we
think everybody else's behavioris because of us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
We did something wrong.
Yes, that used to be my problem.
I would love to think that, oh,I'm this like super self-aware
person.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
I'm getting better and better every single day and
I always try my best to show upthe best you know in all of my
relationships, whether romanticor, you know, friendships or
family relationships.
But one of my weakest pointswas taking people's stuff and
making it about me, because Ialso have this savior complex

(01:14:03):
which I'm actively workingthrough all the time.
Yeah, so I used to be like, ohmy God, what did I do?
Is it me Like?
Wasn't I fun enough?
Wasn't I like happy?
enough myself and I always feltlike how I would show up in
relationships was in directcorrelation with how someone
should feel, and sometimes, alot of times, most times, it has

(01:14:27):
nothing to do with you at all.
So that was a great point.
I used to just take it sopersonal all the time and I
always.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
I used to always think everybody was talking
about me.
Like as soon as I would seepeople like whispering,
especially like in elementaryschool, and I just saw two
people doing this, Iautomatically thought they were
talking about me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Wow, I don't know why yeah, no, and you know it's so
funny.
Even when people tell me it'snot about you, I'm just upset, I
would still think you're lyingbecause you've been upset
forever and some people are justupset.
I think it's an ego thing, toofeeling like I had.
So much power, I'm so importantand it's like a backwards kind

(01:15:14):
of ego thing.
But yeah, it's so funny thatyou said that, because I just
recently, a couple months ago,realized like, oh my God, this
is what I'm doing, you know, andwhy certain interactions are so
uncomfortable for me, more thanthey actually need to be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
So, yeah, and it really helps us to remind
ourselves.
Because here's the thing, whenwe are in judgment mode, we are
not in love mode, right, and sowhen we automatically have that
ego or even the lack ofself-love for us, we're always
like we're anxious and we'reparanoid and we think everyone's

(01:15:53):
out to get us or nobody lovesus.
What we're not doing is we'renot being present, we're not
being connected, we're not beingauthentic.
It's all, again, all aboutsurvival and again, this is, I
think, why the world, families,marriages, relationships break
down.
There's just theseself-awareness gaps that we have

(01:16:18):
and sometimes, no matter howmany books or seminars you do,
you sometimes can't see your own.
Well, no, I should say,sometimes you can never see your
own blind spot.
You need someone to be like hey,do you notice?
You do this thing, and I dothat for my clients, and I have
to train them right in thebeginning that this is not about

(01:16:39):
me nitpicking you or making youwrong.
This is about me showing youwhere your suffering is coming
from, so that you can getfreedom from it, because you
don't even realize that you'veput yourself in this prison
until I say to you do you notice?
You're in a prison right nowRight, but they're like what?
So I think that's it, and andagain, it's all the ego.

(01:17:00):
And if we've lived a life thathas been very, you know,
embedded in trauma and rejectionand abandonment, then that's
just like, and guilt guilt is abig one that we're just like.
It's so hard to escape what weit's like.
It's like a fish realizing thatthey're in water, like they've
just always been in water.

(01:17:20):
They don't know they're inwater, they just that's just
their environment.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
and until someone says, do you realize that you're
swimming in water, you're likeoh, I didn't even know that yeah
, you're so right and I knowwe've been talking for a while,
but the the question I had askedand this is our final question
before we wrap it up was justkind of like the difference
between being in a toxicsituation when you kind of
realize like, okay, you knowwhat, no amount of communication

(01:17:46):
here is going to work becausethere's a gap versus actually
there is promise here, and it'snot necessarily a toxic
situation, because I feel likepeople just throw that out so
much.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Yeah, I think we just need to stop using the word
toxic, I think, because here'sthe thing Toxic is just a label,
and labels make us small, and Ithink we just need to deal with
what's so like, the what so ofit.
So what I when I mean the whatso of it is like what are my

(01:18:22):
value systems?
What are your value systems?
Do I want kids?
Do you want kids?
How do I perceive?
What does an actual marriagelook like?
Or what does a wife look like?
Or what does a husband looklike?
It's like that clear, right.
I think, though, there aredefinitely ways of being like.
I think, for men I don't knowwhat it is about men they love

(01:18:44):
to lie.
It's a thing that's like a kneejerk reaction, and women are
like why do you need to lie?
But men are always afraid toget in trouble, so they would
just.
That's just what they do, isthey lie, and so for a lot of
people, that could be thedefining moment.
It's like I just can't be withsomeone who lies, and it's not
like they're a bad person, it'sjust this knee-jerk reaction

(01:19:07):
they do, but that could occur asbeing toxic.
But I think again, I think weneed to just strip away the
labels and just deal with thewhat so?
They're not honest, they don'tkeep their promises.
We don't have the same valuesystem.
It is absent of judgment.
It is just in the what so Iwant kids.

(01:19:30):
You don't.
I go to.
You know, god is reallyimportant to me.
It's not to you, right?
But the word toxic creates thislike again, this barrier, this
judgment, this limitation, soany of those kind, even like the
word narcissist.
I don't use that word.
I'm like, okay, what's so isthat they, they don't hear your

(01:19:51):
feelings.
What's so is that they shutdown and they don't, you know,
like whatever the, the symptomsare.
But I again, I really try tostay away.
Even words like respectful,like what does that even mean
From?
You know, respect is means onething to a person which means
something different to someoneelse.
So even that's a label.
So it's like, tell me the what.
So what is it that they say?
What is it that they do?

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Yes, I think you're spot on.
I think people overuse the wordnarcissism because on some
level, sometimes when I read thecharacteristic traits.
I'm like I have at least one ofthese.
I might not have all 20, but Ithink we all have narcissistic
traits.
Are there malignant narcissistsout there, people who genuinely

(01:20:34):
have a problem and really doaffect people?
Absolutely, but I don't thinkthe majority of people are
narcissists.
I think the majority of humanbeings are flawed.
That's kind of part of ourprogramming.
So I agree with you, I reallylike that what's so perspective,
and I also think there's anelement to also doing what works
for you and not looking foryour relationship to look like

(01:20:56):
everyone else's.
I was listening to somethingwhere a woman said that her
husband does not care to go towork events.
But she would show up at theseevents and her friends would be
like oh, where's your partner?
And she started to feel badabout her husband, her partner,
not coming to these events.
But deep down she genuinely didnot care.
She was like he doesn't like it.

(01:21:16):
Okay, I'm not going to forcehim to be there.
So she had to kind of take astep back and realize well, he
doesn't like it, I don't reallycare that he's not there.
So I need to make sure thatwhenever people are projecting
onto me, that's their stuff, Idon't.
I don't need him to be there,it doesn't really bother me.
So I think that's also a goodpoint too, because I think
people have their expectationscome from the outside world and

(01:21:40):
they use that to judge theirrelationship exactly, yeah,
exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
And I think that's again back to why we have to
know who we are, why we are theway we are, love the way we are,
but also be really clear aboutokay, where is the area of focus
for me to grow in order tobecome the person that I want to
become?
And you know, in this society wespend so much time doing

(01:22:05):
busyness aka Netflix or whateverthat we do to use up our time
and we don't invest enough timegoing inwards, because sometimes
we don't like what we see or wejust don't know what to do with
that thing that we see, whichis why, again, it's so important
to have someone to support youin the right ways to accomplish

(01:22:28):
that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Absolutely.
That's a great way to end theconversation.
I feel like everything kind ofcame back full circle.
Yeah, janelle, you are a breathof fresh air.
You have so much wisdom.
I really enjoyed speaking withyou.
I have to ask for final wordsof wisdom.
You dropped so many gems.
So if you have any final wordsof wisdom that you kind of keep

(01:22:49):
in your back pocket as you gothrough life that you'd like to
share with the audience, yeah,I'm going to say this is usually
the first thing I tell myclients when they start with me.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
That's kind of the basis of the work.
Pain and suffering only existwhen you resist what is so.
Pain and suffering only existwhen you resist what is so.
What that means is that whenyou have it like I shouldn't be
this way, he shouldn't be thisway, my parents shouldn't be

(01:23:20):
this way, my body shouldn't bethis way, that resistance is
what first of all drains us ofenergy, of love, of everything
beautiful, and we just focus onwhat's wrong and we avoid and we
resist.
But what if we just got the hey, my life is the way it is right

(01:23:42):
now, my finances are the way itis right now, my partner is the
way and it's okay.
So you know, when I get stuck onsomething, I ask myself what am
I resisting?
Am I resisting theircommunication?
Am I resisting the way I'mfeeling about their
communication?
Am I making it mean somethingabout myself?
And when I can just get that,maybe that's just a trigger I

(01:24:04):
have and I'm just going to goand work on that, or maybe it's
like, maybe I just need to be.
I need to work on my self-loveright now and just be okay with
where I'm at, I feel like, andthen bringing in forgiveness
into that, into the mix.
When we can start to strengthenthese, I guess emotional muscles

(01:24:26):
, if you will, or mental muscles, then we can really start to
create something that is sobeyond what we even see is
possible for our lives.
And so I, you know.
And so when my clients come andlike, here's my problem, about
my weight, my this, and I say,okay, pain and suffering only
exists when you resist.
What's so, when you can justlove your body the way it is and

(01:24:49):
say you know what I'm beautifuland you know what.
My husband might not be perfect, but you know what he's pretty
darn good, and you know what.
The world isn't perfect, but Ican see the beauty and the
potential that there is and Ican see the goodness in the
world.
Now we're in this mode ofacceptance, of gratitude and

(01:25:14):
peace wow, that was.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
That was so good, that was so good.
Pain and suffering persist whenyou resist what is.
Oh, that's a bar, and that isso true.
I think the moments in my lifewhere I've been able to forgive
myself and forgive others and bein a state of peace was when I
accepted what is.
That doesn't mean accept andnot try to work towards being
better, but I think it allowsyou to be in the present moment

(01:25:44):
and be like okay, this is whatit is.
I love that.
Pain and suffering persist whenyou resist what is.
You resist what the reality ofsituations are.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Because we're such control freaks.
And if we can just let go of thehandlebars a little bit and if
you're a spiritual person, trustthat where you are right now,
what you're dealing with, is foryour benefit, for your highest
good, that there is an actualopportunity, not a challenge,
not a burden, not a curse, right.

(01:26:19):
That it is actually perfect,there's nothing wrong.
And the more I do this work,the more I really step into my
new relationship with God andseeing him as my co-pilot, you
know, I can really just start tolet go and be like, hey, you
know what it is what it is, andif this client is a yes, great.

(01:26:39):
If a client is a no, that'sperfect too, because I trust
that who is meant to be in mylife and who I'm supposed to be
in whose life is perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Trust.
Trust is the big word there, Ahthis is so good.
I feel like you and I we couldprobably talk for like five
hours, but where can people findyou if they want to follow you
for more content, learn moreabout you and kind of get into
the work that you do?

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I'm on Facebook, butyou know my website is
JanelleGreencom.
Or you can go toSaveOurMarriageca and I usually
workshops going on, or I have mylatest podcast that I post in
there, but you can see picturesof me and my hubby.

(01:27:25):
But you know, I think that's agreat place to start to get to
know me, and seeing if you knowwhere you're at in your life is
something that I can reallysupport you with Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Thank you so much, janelle, for stopping by A Word
to the Wise Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Thank you so much, janelle for stopping by A Word
to the Wise.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Yeah, my pleasure.
You can follow A Word to theWise on Instagram and TikTok at.
A Word to the Wise Pod.
We're also on YouTube at A Wordto the Wise Podcast.
Please be sure to subscribe Ifyou are enjoying the show.
Please rate, leave a review,share and subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
Till next time, peace and love,always, always, always.

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