July 2, 2025 • 46 mins
Well the title says it all. Today I'm talking to Susan Bower about her wonderful group of ladies (a few men too) all over 70+ The Old Ladies Against Underwater Garbage. They are cleaning up the lesser known but amazing underwater worlds of ponds all over Cape Cod and beyond. And get this, they work for cookies!!!!!
Join me as I talk to those "amazing people turning their Actions 2 Impact all over the world. #BE THE CHANGE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hi there, everyone.
I'm Gwen Jones and welcome toseason one, episode one of the
Action to Impact podcast.
For all my friends who havefollowed me since 2019 of the
I'm a Rotarian podcast, thankyou so much.
But just like Darwin said, theonly thing that's constant is
(00:21):
change and change is here.
So that's why I started thiswhole thing off by saying season
one, episode of the Action toImpact podcast with me, Gwen
Jones.
It's going to be fun.
We're going to introduce you tofolks all around the world that
are turning their actions intoimpact.
(00:44):
So join me, won't you?
It's a whole new ballgame thisweek on the Action to Impact
podcast.
And I am so happy, as always,that you joined us.
Welcome back, new year, newshow, new name, everyone.
(01:06):
Welcome to the inauguralepisode, inaugural, such a word,
inaugural episode of the Actionto Impact podcast.
We loved you, the I'm a Rotarianpodcast, but we are moving on.
And what that does is it opensus up to interview Rotarians,
(01:28):
non-Rotarians, but mostimportantly, people in our world
that are turning their actionsin to impact.
And what better place to startthan old ladies against
underwater garbage?
That is right.
That is their name.
And I think that that has got tobe one of the coolest names I
(01:49):
have ever, ever come across.
Susan Bauer is here with metoday.
And we're going to learn, ladiesand gentlemen, they's and them's
all over the world about the oldladies.
I know there's some old men, butthey're not included today.
The old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
Susan, welcome to the Action toImpact podcast.
(02:11):
podcast.
It's wonderful to have you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Thank you, Gwen.
I'm pleased to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
So First and foremost, how old do you have to
be to be an old lady?
I mean, I'm going to be 59 thisyear.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Is there?
No, no, no, no.
Oh, my God.
Spring chicken.
No, you have to be.
It depends on who you talk to.
But 64, 65.
I'm 85.
And I don't really want to bemore than 20 years older than
the youngest one.
So age range is sort of creepingup.
It was 64.
Now it's 65.
(02:45):
But it really is old
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
ladies, old ladies again.
Against old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
Well,
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
So I'm too young to join.
Okay.
All right.
Well, so I know that wasprobably not the first question
you were expecting, but I'mlike, I'm feeling a little
younger already.
Let's, let's keep going withthis podcast.
What is the old ladies betterknown as, as old.
What was the name?
Oh, log.
(03:12):
So.
Oh, log old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
What is it?
Does the name kind of say itall?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
no, in a way it doesn't.
The name scratches the surface.
We're a group, we're now about30 women.
We're a group of women betweenthe ages of 65 and 85 who seem
to do one thing, but in fact doa bunch of other things.
Okay.
So the thing that we seem to doand do is to remove trash from
(03:42):
the bottoms of ponds.
I live on Cape Cod.
Eastern Massachusetts, we have aton of ponds, like 860,
something like that.
Wow.
Now, not all of those are bigand not all of those are
swimmable, but they all havetrash.
From the surface, looks like anempty bowl of water.
(04:03):
And when we approach homeownersassociations or pond
associations, we say, hey, we'rewilling to clean your pond.
quite a few of them say, oh,thank you, but we don't need it.
Take a look.
It's beautiful.
And we say, we've alreadyscouted your pond.
We know that there is trash.
(04:23):
We know what it is, and we knowwhere it is, because we're not
going to jump into a body ofwater without knowing what's in
there.
And they're often quitesurprised.
And they'll even say, this isone of the cleanest ponds on
Cape Cod.
And then we pull out five tires,an Adirondack chair, part of a
(04:44):
boat, golf balls, just aboutthat number of Bud Light beer
cans, nips, fishing rods,fishing lures, dog toys, the
occasional bikini part, like ithappens.
But we will get one or 200pounds of trash, depending on
(05:05):
the stuff that we get, buthundreds of pieces from just
about every pond that we've beenin.
There's a variation.
Wow.
So that's what we're sort ofknown for, this bunch of old
ladies and old Trust me, we'rereally fit.
We come in different sizes andshapes.
(05:27):
You
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
can say that's the first thing.
Is it kind of ageism when thisfabulous, you said you're in
your 80s, when you walk up tothe homeowners association or
whatever and say, we're here toclean your pond?
Do they kind of look at you andsay, oh, isn't that sweet?
Let me help you cross the road.
You know, I mean,
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
do they think no way?
No, they don't.
they don't because especially ifwe're in our bathing suits that
that shoulder muscle um becausewhen you're going to do tryouts
you're going to do you're goingto have to swim a half a mile in
under 30 minutes and then you'vegot to complete the mile and if
you are looking at a group ofwomen who swim distance in cold
(06:05):
water um they don't i mean thisis what 85 looks like but That's
not what they're used to.
So nobody looks at us and says,are you sure you can do this?
You don't show up
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
in walkers, in other hand.
But you're not there withwalkers and saying, we'd like to
clean your pond.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Right.
And sometimes they'll say, well,is there a charge?
And we say, well, yes, you haveto.
bake us cookies.
So we work for cookies, that'sour economy.
And so we want to interact withthe people who live around the
pond because we want them to seewhat is in their pond.
(06:47):
We want them to get a littleupset if possible, that we find
a hundred golf balls there andthey know who's put them in
there.
And we teach them about whathappens to golf balls, maybe not
the first year, But after 20years, after 30 years, not good
stuff comes out of the gluethat's part of golf balls,
(07:09):
especially spent fireworks withjust leaking perchlorates.
So there's some trash thatprobably wouldn't hurt to leave
in the pond.
Glass is pretty inert, althoughit does break.
But the chemicals, the fishhooks, the treated lumber that
is leaching arsenic and othermetals.
So we take those out of the pondand that's ostensibly what we
(07:37):
do.
But when you really look into itand you say, what is the
response to this?
In many environmental agencies,you get a response that's
admiration.
Oh, good for you.
What a good job.
What a good thing to do.
How did you ever come up withthat?
Instead of being told that we'readmired, we're loved.
(08:02):
People will come up to me in thegrocery store or to other
members and just say, we loveyou.
You give us hope.
We love you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Which is better than cookies.
I mean, respectfully.
Even better than cookies,wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
Oh, man, that's so hard because I really like
cookies.
So, yeah.
My bad.
Okay, I can just
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
bear with it.
All right, the whole humanconnection thing.
All right, all right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, the human connection thing.
Well, I spent a lot of timealone underwater, but cookies,
oh, wow.
Anyway, a huge part of what wedo is to inspire women and men
over 50, over 60 to keep activebecause they look at us and they
(08:50):
say, you guys are freaks ofnature.
You know, how do you, I rememberstanding next to some onlookers
at a beach and the wife says,I've never seen anything except
a bandaid in this pond.
And the husband says, this pondis a mile long.
(09:10):
You ladies going to swim to theend and back?
Well, yeah.
Yeah, we are.
Not all of us, but some of uscan handle two miles without any
problem.
And so we do a tremendous amountof inspiring older people to
keep active because we aren'tunusual.
We're sort of unusual, but thisis what life is like if you keep
(09:36):
walking, keep running, keepreading, keep, you know,
mentally and physically fit.
it's a lot more interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
So it's funny, Susan.
So we're talking about, and youeven gave us some different
topics to talk about before wecame on today.
But what I think is funny isthat the pawns are really just
like one bit.
The cookies are really one bit.
The ageism is really one bit.
(10:05):
The active at an older age isreally one bit.
Did this, start off as that isthe plan or is that just kind of
you know metamorphosed into thisfabulous butterfly of all these
different things you're activeyou're cleaning ponds you're
getting cookies you're breakingthe myths but did it start off
(10:29):
of we just wanted to clean ponds
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
um It started off definitely without any plan at
all, because that's the way Iwork.
I back into everything.
I'm a retired psychologist, evendegrees and husbands and stuff
like that.
Oh, what am I doing?
So I spent a lot of timeswimming in ponds.
(10:52):
And there's a story behind that.
But I swam alone and I swam inthe evening because that's when
I would see turtles.
The turtles I was interested inare crepuscular.
They only come out like at sixin the morning, six at night.
And I would swim through theshadows and I would...
see these turtles so often, muskturtles and snapping turtles,
(11:15):
that finally they got to knowme, I got to know them.
And I'd give them names.
I'd say, oh, there's the onewith the spot on it, or there's
Mr.
Pear because he always loves theladies, and there's Silver
Patches because he has silvermarkings, or Goiter Guy.
And pretty soon I'd swim downthe length of a pond, and on my
(11:37):
way back, One turtle afteranother would come and visit me
and they'd tap me on the netmask.
I have a dive mask that has acamera in it.
And I would hold out my handsand they'd sit in my hands and I
could take their picture.
And I began writing littlechildren's books about the
turtle sisters and to teach kidsabout ponds.
(11:58):
And at first, I reallyappreciated the trash.
I was happy to have the trashbecause I was so scared swimming
through this dark water in theevening with a muddy floor that
I never knew where I was.
And if I would see that golfball, oh good, there's that golf
ball.
So you knew where you were?
(12:18):
I knew where I was.
These were markers on a watermap.
And so then I would go to the tothe drowned chair or I would go
to the drowned tree orsomething.
And I even took to putting somewhite rocks or something and I'd
drop them down.
There, I've got some markers.
But after about 10 years ofthat, I thought, I am tired of
(12:45):
seeing more and more markers.
I don't need the markersanymore.
You needed one or two,
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
not 20.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And so I didn't need...
10 golf balls lying on thebottom with their little
puckered tops looking likepoison mushrooms trying to
sprout and proliferate.
So one day I was just swimmingwith a couple of friends, which
was rare, but I did swim withfriends sometimes.
(13:12):
And I said, hey, let's just...
See if we can pick out this.
I've seen sunglasses and allthese golf balls.
Let's get them out of the pond.
And we grabbed a person who wasin a kayak, popped a laundry
basket in there and said, followus.
And we got like a bushel oftrash.
We thought that was terrific.
(13:32):
Now we would hardly bother witha bushel of trash.
We get, you know, at least agarbage, a couple of garbage
cans of trash because no one'sever cleaned these ponds before.
And the stuff's been going infor 200 or 300 years.
So we get bottles, you know,blue bottles that were
hand-blown that haven't beenmade in 150 years and that kind
(13:56):
of stuff.
So we got this guy and hefollowed us and we cleaned that
pond.
And one of us said, wow, we're abunch of old ladies against
underwater garbage.
And the name stuck.
And then nothing happened.
Okay.
That was 2018 and we did onemore in 2019 and then the
(14:22):
pandemic hit and suddenly allsocializing has to be outside.
That's the only thing you cando.
So then we did a couple morecleanups And then it wasn't
until 2023 that we heard from somany people, can I join, can I
(14:45):
join, that we held tryouts.
And somehow we understood thatthe only protection we had
against liability, the only waywe could keep these people safe
was to really try.
make them select just the bestswimmers.
So we had these very carefultryouts.
SPEAKER_01 (15:05):
So let me, let me, let me stop you there if I can,
Susan, because I think, I thinkpeople are so, cause there's two
different things you've talkedabout.
You've given us, we were, wewere, everybody was listening to
was swimming with the turtles.
I think so.
I was, I was like, Oh, I gottago.
I gotta go swim with someturtles.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
Fascinating is that I think, I don't want to skip
over the fact that I can't justgo down to my pond and start
this, that these people areactually, are they trained as
well as have to try out to be apart of this group?
I mean, there's this veryangelic part that you've told us
(15:44):
about, but let's not skip overthat.
You can't just go into a pondand do this.
You actually should get trainedand or be physically fit for it.
Is that a fair statement?
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Not quite.
Not quite.
Fair enough.
Okay.
What I thought you were going tosay is you can't just go down to
a pond and expect turtles tocome to you.
Well, no,
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
you can't.
That's a regional thing, too.
UNKNOWN (16:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
But no, once in 2023, sorry, we held tryouts,
and we went from five people to21.
Okay.
Wow.
So these are all physically fit.
But all we did was to find outthat they could swim.
find out that they could use amask and snorkel, find out that
(16:27):
they could dive at least toeight feet, sometimes more.
And then it was turn them loose.
So I would say, here's a map.
You're going to go here.
You're going to go there, sendthem all in teams.
And sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
That's okay.
A little, a little, a littledrink is always good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
It's allergy season.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Well, Let me ask you one other question, because one
thing you've said also is thatyou've gone to these, quote,
homeowners associations, yousaid, and you said that you knew
where the ponds were and whatwas in those ponds.
How did you know that?
I mean, knowing where they are,that's easy enough.
I can Google map where a pondis.
(17:13):
But because these people seemvery shocked with what's coming
out of their ponds.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
We scout every pond that we clean.
We don't get them.
show up and launch this hugeeffort with the kayakers coming
and the garbage truck coming andthe cookies, the cookies coming.
We scout the ponds.
And when I leave you today, it'sraining and it's 63 degrees and
(17:41):
I will be in two different pondsthis afternoon with a bunch of
other people seeing, is thereenough garbage?
Where is it?
What kind is it?
What do we need?
So on the basis of that, I will,for my dives, the ones I'm in
charge of, I pick the number ofswimmers.
I pick the routes.
And this year will be the firsttime that other people besides
(18:05):
myself will have organized thesedives.
We have 20 in a season.
And Wednesday, I will beswimming for another, for OLAG,
but for another team.
And I will have to do what I'mtold.
And that's a challenge.
It's okay.
You can do it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
You've talked to turtles.
You can be aware.
So you scout these ponds.
And these are my words as I askthis, but are ponds kind of like
secret garbage cans?
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
No, they're like secret gardens that have a
problem.
And our job is to restore themto their secret gardens.
Because they're all kind of the
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
ecosystem, aren't they?
Ponds are like their own littleecosystem, right?
Their
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
own little ecosystem, exactly.
And everything in there works asclosely as the parts of our body
work together.
They are fantastic.
And they don't need a gallon ofwater.
windshield wiper fluid and theydon't need a car battery and
they don't need rotting tires.
(19:17):
So we take those out and restoreit to a secret garden.
I love that.
I think of them as the lasttruly wild places, the last
fragments of natural beauty onCape Cod because no roads, no
farming, no trails, no picnictables, no graffiti.
(19:38):
But that's our job is to makesure that there's No blemishes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
So this is a legit question, but how big is a pond
before it becomes a lake?
In other words, how big arethese ponds that you're
cleaning?
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
The difference technically between a pond and a
lake is that anybody of waterthat is so shallow that a plant
can grow all the way across is apond.
And that's maybe 30 feet deep.
Whereas if...
light can't get to the bottombecause it's 60 feet deep.
It turns into a lake.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Okay.
Because I know there's somebodyout there who's listening to
this going, I never knew thatbecause you got creeks and you
got lakes and you got, you know.
People call
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
local bodies of water are called whatever the
people around them want to callthem.
Touche.
On Cape Cod, Our 860 pondsinclude a 750-acre lake.
So we've got two gigantic ones,and we have hundreds of
(20:47):
four-acre, six-acre ones.
We tend to do the sort of30-acre and up.
Okay.
So I would say three-quarters ofa mile around to...
Seven miles around.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
So these are decent-sized lakes.
I mean, excuse me, ponds.
Excuse me.
These are decent-sized ponds.
But let's just say I'm anaverage homeowner.
I have a dear friend of mine whohas a pond in his backyard that
he's always complaining he getsalgae or he always complains.
But that algae, what you'resaying, or that algae or that
(21:26):
muck, his words, not mine,That's kind of its own little
ecosystem.
That's like we need to keepthat.
Is that correct?
It's the tires we want out.
It's the but the the naturalgrowing of a pond is what you
ladies are trying to save.
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
That's true.
You also, if you have a pondwith a whole lot of houses
around it and they have septicsystems, that fertilizer from
the septic system is going tosupercharge those ponds.
That's not good either.
It's very natural, but it meansthat the algae could be
cyanobacteria, could be justnormal algae and the water
(22:06):
lilies and the pond weed and thequillwort, that's all going to
grow much faster than it should.
So all ponds try to becomefields.
They try to become swamps andthey try to become fields.
It's nice if we can let thathappen very, very slowly so we
can enjoy them for swimming foras long as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
So you're saying respect the pond.
Cause I don't think a lot of, Ithink, I think as soon as a pond
becomes a lake, which happens todo with depth as we just
learned, you know, somehow alake gets respect the ocean gets
respect but a pond yeah that'sjust frogs and turtles which I
happen to like both of thosecritters but I'm just saying no
(22:51):
you're right ponds don't pondsare a pond you know so you
ladies are to re-educate us oneven the beauty of a pond
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yes, yes.
We raise awareness about a lotof things.
And one is the, I'm going to useyour term, the hidden garden.
These are the hidden gardens ofCape Cod.
And they are simply beautiful.
At the same time, I'm perfectlyhappy that most tourists go to
the beach and the ocean anddon't go to my ponds.
(23:23):
Okay.
But.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Well, yeah.
Okay.
So, so.
There's a couple things that wewanted to touch on.
First of all, I think you guysare great.
And from 65 to 85 is the yearsof the ladies that you have.
How many ladies make up the oldladies right now?
30.
30.
Do you ever want to expand?
(23:47):
I mean, because there's pondseverywhere,
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
not just in Cape Cod.
We have five states that wantchapters and two countries.
So Sweden, Belgium...
Texas, Illinois, Nevada,Florida, New Hampshire,
Connecticut.
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
Well, let me tell you, Florida has a lot of ponds.
I have family in Florida, andthey could use some TLC.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
And they have alligator snappers, so I'm not
going to lead the training downthere.
I'm scared enough of the ones.
We've got 50 and 60-poundsnapping turtles here, and it
used to be my job to swim outahead and alert people to the
snapping turtles, but...
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Well, that is a very interesting question.
So I have two questions for you.
First of all, what are thecritters that you have to come
across?
I know I went tubing one time inMaryland and there was a
absolutely beautiful and thankgoodness, very far away
rattlesnake lounging on a rockin the middle of a place.
UNKNOWN (24:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
What is some of the most interesting animals you've
come across, and what is some ofthe most interesting things
you've dug out of these ponds?
SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
I'll start with the latter because it includes the
former.
The most interesting thing wedug out was an 80-pound blue
toilet.
Okay.
Found the toilet, and it wasreally hard.
We had to lasso the tank, and wecouldn't re-find it, but we
found it on the scouting.
(25:20):
And that...
Actually, that's one hell of atoilet.
That made...
And as we lifted it up for thispicture, and we'd re-found the
thing, and we'd gotten it in, wewere so happy.
Out comes a full-sized eel rightfrom the throat of the toilet.
You know, like, whoa! Um...
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Wow.
So that's the most unusual forsure.
I mean, you did mentionsomething as elegant as
100-year-old blue glass when wefirst started this interview.
And you want to find somethinggreat.
We
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
found a couch.
Yeah, we found futons, a sink, acrib bumper, rugs.
No
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
mafia bodies like up at Lake Tahoe and stuff, or Lake
Mead, I think, here inCalifornia.
They found all kinds of...
They solved some interestingmurders from way back in the
70s.
Thank
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
goodness nothing like that.
We are waiting for that day.
We have found a sealed garbagecan down there.
We can't re-find it, but wewonder what's in that.
And we found a bone once, butwe're hoping it was from a deer,
not from a person.
But of course, every how Youknow, I want to go and buy one
(26:39):
of those hands made out ofbones, except the person who
would find it would have ananeurysm and then it would be my
fault.
So I better not.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
Yeah.
I mean, you guys are you guysare up there.
Let's not push it.
You guys are doing great
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
at your age.
Right.
And they're very territorial,and especially in May and June,
they don't want you in yourterritory.
And we've learned, you know, youdon't go between a snapping
(27:14):
turtle and deep water.
That's their escape route.
You go way behind them and thissort of thing.
It's interesting, though, what Ihear most about from the women,
and of course they've got eyesonly for trash, is that...
They are really very moved whenthey swim through a 36-foot
(27:37):
school of baby perch or whenthey see an enormous bass with a
hook still in its mouth or alittle jaunty fish with a hook
that is in its body still andit's swimming around, you know.
And so there are many things.
things that we see that thatwe're moved by the beauty we're
(27:59):
we're moved by the sadness umand we're of course uh moved by
righteous indignation to get thetrash out so there's a
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
figure if the bass can make it with a hook in its
mouth you can make it one morestep and clean up a pond ah
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
You think there ought to be a better way, you
know, either catch him or, youknow, I mean, this was it looked
like one where it was catch andrelease and the guy couldn't get
the hook out.
So he just cut it.
And I say a guy, but it could bea woman.
The fisher person.
The fisher person.
Yeah.
(28:39):
There's no free lunch, and youcan see that underwater.
Everything that we do toentertain ourselves has a cost
to the natural world, and we seethat when we dive, as well as
just the pure beauty.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
Which, again, I think people think of ponds, and
I think they perhaps, and I willthrow myself under the bus here,
perhaps I even forget.
the beauty of a pond.
I mean, the ocean can take mybreath away, but I can't tell
you when was the last time Iwent, what a beautiful pond.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
That's because we haven't gone underwater.
That's where the action is.
You've got to go down into thegarden.
You can't just stop at the wall.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
So I know you had talked about, before we came on,
that you had written a book.
So is the book about...
some of these adventures.
What is your book about?
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
The book is about, it's swimming with the turtles
of Wonderland, how wonderreconnects us to the natural
world.
And it's about the 18 years thatI swam by myself, probably
covered about 1500 miles allseasons and swam with these
turtles and how close I was ableto get to them and began
(29:58):
realizing that they wereindividuals, that they had
different personalities.
And still figured that I was thesuperior being and I was taking
notes on these turtles.
And then one day I was lookingat the turtles and I know how to
wiggle my fingers and get themto come up to me.
And this male turtle wasswinging back and forth and back
(30:19):
and forth and just not doingwhat a turtle was supposed to
do.
He disappears.
And in an instant, I feel theselittle pinpricks coming up the
back of my wetsuit and theturtle disappears.
grabbed onto my shoulder.
I'm freaking out, so I'm tryingto swat him off, but before I
could get there, he gives me apoke, jumps into the water in
(30:42):
front of me, and suddenly Irealize I see this big bulge in
his tail, and male turtles keeptheir private parts in their
tails.
I was being hit on by a turtle.
He found me irresistible, and Iwas shocked and delighted, and
all of a sudden, I just,everything turned.
(31:03):
It just, my concept of lifereally turned around and I
realized that everything inlife, every tree, every blade of
grass, every butterfly and birdand turtle was an individual and
was as intent on living foreveras I wanted to be, as I was.
Wow.
And I waded out of that pondinto a much larger world that
(31:28):
day.
And the book is about theexperience of what wonder, what
enchantment, what awe, what thatdoes to a person over time and
how it does it.
And being a retiredpsychologist, I could do some of
the research as well as livingit so I can get it from both
(31:49):
sides.
So
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
basically, a turtle turn on is what took you to a
different level ofunderstanding.
Yes.
Yes, that is exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
I love it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
love it.
A turtle turn on.
Hey, you know, I hope he still Ihope he came a little closer
with something maybe more of ashell next time, but it still
made an impact in the world.
Absolutely.
It
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
certainly did.
That was.
Yeah, I suppose he's my coauthor.
SPEAKER_01 (32:21):
Well, I love it.
So, okay.
Well, then you've got to tell usthe name of the book and it
isn't called Turtle Turn On.
What is the name of your book?
No, it's Swimming with theTurtles of
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Wonderland.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
Swimming with the Turtles of Wonderland.
So, and like I say about mypodcast, when I say to people,
you can get my podcast whereveryou get your podcast.
Can we say that about your book?
We can,
SPEAKER_00 (32:43):
where can we find your book?
Okay.
It's being published by theUniversity of Massachusetts
Press and they will...
Put it in independent bookstoreswherever there are ponds.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
Wherever there are ponds.
I love it.
Hey, you know, turtles.
Who knew they were so frisky?
Quite frankly, I had no idea.
I had no idea.
Oh, they have harems.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Well, you know what?
There's like a whole bunch ofharems.
to go do my research.
I had no idea male turtles weresuch gigolos.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
my God.
Well, females turtles can holdsperm live for a year.
So rather than having a matingseason and then gestation and
then eggs, it's mating seasonall the time, except when they
hibernate.
And up here, they hibernate inNovember, December, and they
(33:40):
hold their breath until March.
So there is no animal on theplanet that holds its breath as
long as a pond turtle in NewEngland.
And you'd say, I used toteach...
turtle stuff to kids.
And I would say, these areanimals.
They breathe.
They come up to the top of thesurface and they breathe.
(34:02):
They need air.
They have lungs.
How do you live for five monthswithout taking a breath?
And then I told them the onefact that they will remember,
the one, that they will rememberthe rest of their lives.
And that is that snappingturtles do something called butt
breathing.
They pull water in and out oftheir butts and have little
(34:23):
sacks that are able to getenough oxygen out of the water
that just barely keeps themalive.
So who knew turtles were sointeresting?
SPEAKER_01 (34:35):
All right.
So for everybody who's drivingin their car and listening to
this podcast, we have gone fromcleaning pods to butt breathing
in about 10 minutes.
And you're hearing this right.
And I think we all should giveturtles like a little bit of our
time.
as they are really fascinating.
(34:56):
Ponds are secret gardens.
Turtles are a heck of a lot morefascinating than we thought, to
the point that, you know, I'malmost going to have to put an X
rating on this show.
But I'm sure your mission ismore than just cleaning ponds
and loving turtles.
What's the overall mission forOld Ladies Against Underwater
(35:19):
Garbage?
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
What I think, you know, we've...
had a lot of publicity.
And so I've had the opportunityto talk to people who talk to
environmentalists.
And I always turn the questionaround.
And I will turn the questionaround to you.
And I say, you've interviewedall these people.
What motivates them?
(35:42):
And I've done these these radioprograms and TV programs and
podcasts all over the world.
And what I get back is that ifyou're talking to the United
States, the motivation is, Ineed a purpose in my life.
I want to do something good.
Let's help the planet.
Okay.
If you are up in Europe orAfrica or United Arab Emirates,
(36:09):
It's fear and guilt.
Look at the mess we've made.
It's our responsibility to cleanit up or holy crap, the train's
coming down the track of climatechange and pollution and we are
going to get badly, badly hurt.
We better do something beforeit's too late.
UNKNOWN (36:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
None of those, not righteousness, not the need to
do good, not fear, not guilt,none of those are easy to scale
up.
They all cost.
It's hard to get people to cleantrash at the side of a highway.
It's hard to get people to planta thousand trees.
(36:52):
Whereas we've got a waiting listof 45 women who Wherever we go,
people want to join us.
So what's the difference?
And the difference is that weare motivated by joy.
And that doesn't mean we justdecide that we're going to be
happy.
When we're underwater, we are insomething called,
psychologically, it's called theflow or the zone.
(37:14):
When you are physicallychallenged, you're a body,
you're climbing a rock face,you're swimming in freezing ice
water, you're...
Cleaning a pond.
Trying
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
to step through things you can't necessarily
see.
You
SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
are so challenged right up to your max that you
have no space in your head foryour own concerns.
You are liberated from your ownconcerns.
podcast and chatter and stuffthat goes on in your head.
And for an hour, you are setfree from the cage of yourself
(37:52):
and you go through and you arejust a body alive doing
something very hard well.
And you come out of the water.
We are pumping our fists.
We are smiling ear to ear.
And everybody who sees us says,what are they smoking?
Where do I get that?
(38:12):
How can I join?
We've got a way of doing goodthat helps us as much as it
helps the pond.
And that's easy to scale up.
And that, to my mind, is theanswer.
That is the next chapter for allenvironmentalism.
Figure out how to get people inthe flow.
(38:33):
It's not easy and you can't doit all all the time.
But then you can't stop them.
from doing good.
We need that around the world.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
We do.
We do.
In fact, it's interesting.
I do talks around the UnitedStates and around the world
about finding your why.
Why do you get up and do thisthing?
Why do you join Rotary?
Why do you do these things?
So I think finding that joy,finding that why, finding that
zone are so important to Thatthen when we're out of that
(39:05):
zone, it doesn't seem so badbecause we know we can get back
to that why.
We know we can get back to thatjoy.
It's there.
It hasn't gone anywhere.
We just got to get to a pond.
SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
It's like rain and sun.
You cycle through life.
But once you understand that andonce you understand that joy is
as likely as will return asinevitably as sorrow, then you
become more patient.
So are you a better person?
Hell yeah.
(39:37):
And I would say that all of usweighed out of a pond a better
person.
We feel stronger.
We feel kinder.
We feel more ready to help.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Wow.
Well, you ended that.
You said the last words weremore ready to help.
I know you get paid withcookies, which is great.
However, this has to...
costs something.
I mean, the first thing I thinkof is, and I don't know, maybe
my mom raised me to worry toomuch, but I mean, a snapping
(40:12):
turtle, they snap.
I mean, injuries could happen.
Things could happen.
Worry
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
about that.
We worry about that.
Nice of you to ask.
Really, It doesn't take much.
People have their own kayaks.
We have our own bathing suits.
It doesn't take much to clean apond.
What about insurance or thingslike that?
Liability insurance.
Liability insurance.
Okay.
All right.
And so we have a website, whichis olog-ma.com.
(40:43):
And we have a donation page.
But personally, I am lookingfor...
three organizations.
I found one.
I need two more who will donatelike 700 bucks a year to us
because our liability insurancecosts 2000 a year and we don't
have dues.
We, you know, and if we couldfind three organizations that
(41:06):
would, would donate 700 bucks ayear to us, we would know that
we can just keep on buyinginsurance and we can keep on
creating chapters because wecan't do that without the
insurance.
So what's your vision then?
My
SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
vision is not just the 700 bucks.
Cause if anybody's hearing ourvoice right now, and if you want
to give straight up the 2000 inyour chapter, um, no, no, The
old ladies against underwatergarbage are not I'm not getting
a kickback from the show.
This is a straight up.
If you wish to participate inthe wonders, that is this this
(41:46):
wonderful organization, theywould love the insurance.
That all being said, let's saythat's already been manifested
for the next, I don't know, 10years.
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
My what is your what's your vision?
Oh, I want a chapter in notevery zip code, but I want five
chapters in every state that hasponds.
Which is all 50 states, isn'tit?
Does everybody have ponds?
I would say there are a coupleof states that don't have many
ponds.
(42:15):
Maybe Arizona.
Yeah, more like.
But anyway, oh my gosh, sorryabout that.
It's okay.
Anyway, yeah, I would like a tonof chapters because I think it's
because, not so much of thetrash even, it's because we
(42:37):
become so much better people, somuch kinder people, so much more
ready to help.
My group goes on to dowastewater and urine diversion
and pond coalitions, but they'reso happy.
If we can hapify, joyify, youknow, 5,000 women, women over,
(43:00):
Margaret Mead said there is nopower in the world like the zest
of a postmenopausal woman.
If we can empower thousands ofthem, the world will be a better
place.
SPEAKER_01 (43:14):
Find more zest.
Is that what you're saying?
Find more zest, protect morepawns.
and be an active person and gethappy.
I don't think that's, thatsounds like pretty good.
So Susan, you have this awesomebook.
You have this awesome mission.
We need three clubs for$700.
(43:35):
We're going to manifest that allof those things happen and are
wonderful and hold this visionof a magical pond existence
around the world.
Does that sound good?
SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yes, yes, it sure does.
I
SPEAKER_01 (43:52):
think that does sound good.
So from the bottom of my heart,Susan Bauer, thank you so much.
And please give our absolutebest to all the old ladies
against underwater garbage.
Please be safe and please keeptelling people that just because
you're 65 or older, you ain'tdead.
(44:12):
You ain't dead, Susan.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Nope, nope.
Action to, action to impact.
Action to impact.
That's so weird.
Thank you so much.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
Thank you, Susan and all the members of the Old
Ladies Against UnderwaterGarbage.
I love the name.
I will forever love the name.
And hey, if you're hearing myvoice and you want to help them
out, Google them.
They are easy to get a hold ofand Susan really, really needs a
(44:44):
little help with the insurance.
And hey, next time you go by apond or do you have a local pond
in your community, remember,Susan said way at the beginning
of this interview that peopleare always surprised by what's
in their pond.
And for all the geeks out there,now you officially know the
difference between a lake and apond.
(45:08):
But I still don't know what acrick is, but I'll work on that
for a later podcast.
Alright then, let's see.
If you want to get in touch withmy more musical side, check me
out on Rotary Radio UK.
And if you want to listen toanother great pod Then check out
this one next week, the Actionto Impact podcast, where I
(45:29):
introduce you to those amazingpeople turning their actions
into impact.
Until next week, everybody, thesend-off is still the same.
Take care of yourself and theworld around you, and we'll hear
you next time.
Remember, on the Action toImpact podcast.
I know, it'll take a littlegetting used to, but you'll get
(45:50):
the hang of it.
Hear you next week, everybody.
Take care.
Hi there, everyone.
I'm Gwen Jones and welcome toseason one, episode one of the
Action to Impact podcast.
For all my friends who havefollowed me since 2019 of the
I'm a Rotarian podcast, thankyou so much.
But just like Darwin said, theonly thing that's constant is
(00:21):
change and change is here.
So that's why I started thiswhole thing off by saying season
one, episode of the Action toImpact podcast with me, Gwen
Jones.
It's going to be fun.
We're going to introduce you tofolks all around the world that
are turning their actions intoimpact.
(00:44):
So join me, won't you?
It's a whole new ballgame thisweek on the Action to Impact
podcast.
And I am so happy, as always,that you joined us.
Welcome back, new year, newshow, new name, everyone.
(01:06):
Welcome to the inauguralepisode, inaugural, such a word,
inaugural episode of the Actionto Impact podcast.
We loved you, the I'm a Rotarianpodcast, but we are moving on.
And what that does is it opensus up to interview Rotarians,
(01:28):
non-Rotarians, but mostimportantly, people in our world
that are turning their actionsin to impact.
And what better place to startthan old ladies against
underwater garbage?
That is right.
That is their name.
And I think that that has got tobe one of the coolest names I
(01:49):
have ever, ever come across.
Susan Bauer is here with metoday.
And we're going to learn, ladiesand gentlemen, they's and them's
all over the world about the oldladies.
I know there's some old men, butthey're not included today.
The old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
Susan, welcome to the Action toImpact podcast.
(02:11):
podcast.
It's wonderful to have you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Thank you, Gwen.
I'm pleased to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
So First and foremost, how old do you have to
be to be an old lady?
I mean, I'm going to be 59 thisyear.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Is there?
No, no, no, no.
Oh, my God.
Spring chicken.
No, you have to be.
It depends on who you talk to.
But 64, 65.
I'm 85.
And I don't really want to bemore than 20 years older than
the youngest one.
So age range is sort of creepingup.
It was 64.
Now it's 65.
(02:45):
But it really is old
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
ladies, old ladies again.
Against old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
Well,
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
So I'm too young to join.
Okay.
All right.
Well, so I know that wasprobably not the first question
you were expecting, but I'mlike, I'm feeling a little
younger already.
Let's, let's keep going withthis podcast.
What is the old ladies betterknown as, as old.
What was the name?
Oh, log.
(03:12):
So.
Oh, log old ladies againstunderwater garbage.
What is it?
Does the name kind of say itall?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
no, in a way it doesn't.
The name scratches the surface.
We're a group, we're now about30 women.
We're a group of women betweenthe ages of 65 and 85 who seem
to do one thing, but in fact doa bunch of other things.
Okay.
So the thing that we seem to doand do is to remove trash from
(03:42):
the bottoms of ponds.
I live on Cape Cod.
Eastern Massachusetts, we have aton of ponds, like 860,
something like that.
Wow.
Now, not all of those are bigand not all of those are
swimmable, but they all havetrash.
From the surface, looks like anempty bowl of water.
(04:03):
And when we approach homeownersassociations or pond
associations, we say, hey, we'rewilling to clean your pond.
quite a few of them say, oh,thank you, but we don't need it.
Take a look.
It's beautiful.
And we say, we've alreadyscouted your pond.
We know that there is trash.
(04:23):
We know what it is, and we knowwhere it is, because we're not
going to jump into a body ofwater without knowing what's in
there.
And they're often quitesurprised.
And they'll even say, this isone of the cleanest ponds on
Cape Cod.
And then we pull out five tires,an Adirondack chair, part of a
(04:44):
boat, golf balls, just aboutthat number of Bud Light beer
cans, nips, fishing rods,fishing lures, dog toys, the
occasional bikini part, like ithappens.
But we will get one or 200pounds of trash, depending on
(05:05):
the stuff that we get, buthundreds of pieces from just
about every pond that we've beenin.
There's a variation.
Wow.
So that's what we're sort ofknown for, this bunch of old
ladies and old Trust me, we'rereally fit.
We come in different sizes andshapes.
(05:27):
You
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
can say that's the first thing.
Is it kind of ageism when thisfabulous, you said you're in
your 80s, when you walk up tothe homeowners association or
whatever and say, we're here toclean your pond?
Do they kind of look at you andsay, oh, isn't that sweet?
Let me help you cross the road.
You know, I mean,
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
do they think no way?
No, they don't.
they don't because especially ifwe're in our bathing suits that
that shoulder muscle um becausewhen you're going to do tryouts
you're going to do you're goingto have to swim a half a mile in
under 30 minutes and then you'vegot to complete the mile and if
you are looking at a group ofwomen who swim distance in cold
(06:05):
water um they don't i mean thisis what 85 looks like but That's
not what they're used to.
So nobody looks at us and says,are you sure you can do this?
You don't show up
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
in walkers, in other hand.
But you're not there withwalkers and saying, we'd like to
clean your pond.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Right.
And sometimes they'll say, well,is there a charge?
And we say, well, yes, you haveto.
bake us cookies.
So we work for cookies, that'sour economy.
And so we want to interact withthe people who live around the
pond because we want them to seewhat is in their pond.
(06:47):
We want them to get a littleupset if possible, that we find
a hundred golf balls there andthey know who's put them in
there.
And we teach them about whathappens to golf balls, maybe not
the first year, But after 20years, after 30 years, not good
stuff comes out of the gluethat's part of golf balls,
(07:09):
especially spent fireworks withjust leaking perchlorates.
So there's some trash thatprobably wouldn't hurt to leave
in the pond.
Glass is pretty inert, althoughit does break.
But the chemicals, the fishhooks, the treated lumber that
is leaching arsenic and othermetals.
So we take those out of the pondand that's ostensibly what we
(07:37):
do.
But when you really look into itand you say, what is the
response to this?
In many environmental agencies,you get a response that's
admiration.
Oh, good for you.
What a good job.
What a good thing to do.
How did you ever come up withthat?
Instead of being told that we'readmired, we're loved.
(08:02):
People will come up to me in thegrocery store or to other
members and just say, we loveyou.
You give us hope.
We love you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Which is better than cookies.
I mean, respectfully.
Even better than cookies,wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
Oh, man, that's so hard because I really like
cookies.
So, yeah.
My bad.
Okay, I can just
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
bear with it.
All right, the whole humanconnection thing.
All right, all right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, the human connection thing.
Well, I spent a lot of timealone underwater, but cookies,
oh, wow.
Anyway, a huge part of what wedo is to inspire women and men
over 50, over 60 to keep activebecause they look at us and they
(08:50):
say, you guys are freaks ofnature.
You know, how do you, I rememberstanding next to some onlookers
at a beach and the wife says,I've never seen anything except
a bandaid in this pond.
And the husband says, this pondis a mile long.
(09:10):
You ladies going to swim to theend and back?
Well, yeah.
Yeah, we are.
Not all of us, but some of uscan handle two miles without any
problem.
And so we do a tremendous amountof inspiring older people to
keep active because we aren'tunusual.
We're sort of unusual, but thisis what life is like if you keep
(09:36):
walking, keep running, keepreading, keep, you know,
mentally and physically fit.
it's a lot more interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
So it's funny, Susan.
So we're talking about, and youeven gave us some different
topics to talk about before wecame on today.
But what I think is funny isthat the pawns are really just
like one bit.
The cookies are really one bit.
The ageism is really one bit.
(10:05):
The active at an older age isreally one bit.
Did this, start off as that isthe plan or is that just kind of
you know metamorphosed into thisfabulous butterfly of all these
different things you're activeyou're cleaning ponds you're
getting cookies you're breakingthe myths but did it start off
(10:29):
of we just wanted to clean ponds
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
um It started off definitely without any plan at
all, because that's the way Iwork.
I back into everything.
I'm a retired psychologist, evendegrees and husbands and stuff
like that.
Oh, what am I doing?
So I spent a lot of timeswimming in ponds.
(10:52):
And there's a story behind that.
But I swam alone and I swam inthe evening because that's when
I would see turtles.
The turtles I was interested inare crepuscular.
They only come out like at sixin the morning, six at night.
And I would swim through theshadows and I would...
see these turtles so often, muskturtles and snapping turtles,
(11:15):
that finally they got to knowme, I got to know them.
And I'd give them names.
I'd say, oh, there's the onewith the spot on it, or there's
Mr.
Pear because he always loves theladies, and there's Silver
Patches because he has silvermarkings, or Goiter Guy.
And pretty soon I'd swim downthe length of a pond, and on my
(11:37):
way back, One turtle afteranother would come and visit me
and they'd tap me on the netmask.
I have a dive mask that has acamera in it.
And I would hold out my handsand they'd sit in my hands and I
could take their picture.
And I began writing littlechildren's books about the
turtle sisters and to teach kidsabout ponds.
(11:58):
And at first, I reallyappreciated the trash.
I was happy to have the trashbecause I was so scared swimming
through this dark water in theevening with a muddy floor that
I never knew where I was.
And if I would see that golfball, oh good, there's that golf
ball.
So you knew where you were?
(12:18):
I knew where I was.
These were markers on a watermap.
And so then I would go to the tothe drowned chair or I would go
to the drowned tree orsomething.
And I even took to putting somewhite rocks or something and I'd
drop them down.
There, I've got some markers.
But after about 10 years ofthat, I thought, I am tired of
(12:45):
seeing more and more markers.
I don't need the markersanymore.
You needed one or two,
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
not 20.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And so I didn't need...
10 golf balls lying on thebottom with their little
puckered tops looking likepoison mushrooms trying to
sprout and proliferate.
So one day I was just swimmingwith a couple of friends, which
was rare, but I did swim withfriends sometimes.
(13:12):
And I said, hey, let's just...
See if we can pick out this.
I've seen sunglasses and allthese golf balls.
Let's get them out of the pond.
And we grabbed a person who wasin a kayak, popped a laundry
basket in there and said, followus.
And we got like a bushel oftrash.
We thought that was terrific.
(13:32):
Now we would hardly bother witha bushel of trash.
We get, you know, at least agarbage, a couple of garbage
cans of trash because no one'sever cleaned these ponds before.
And the stuff's been going infor 200 or 300 years.
So we get bottles, you know,blue bottles that were
hand-blown that haven't beenmade in 150 years and that kind
(13:56):
of stuff.
So we got this guy and hefollowed us and we cleaned that
pond.
And one of us said, wow, we're abunch of old ladies against
underwater garbage.
And the name stuck.
And then nothing happened.
Okay.
That was 2018 and we did onemore in 2019 and then the
(14:22):
pandemic hit and suddenly allsocializing has to be outside.
That's the only thing you cando.
So then we did a couple morecleanups And then it wasn't
until 2023 that we heard from somany people, can I join, can I
(14:45):
join, that we held tryouts.
And somehow we understood thatthe only protection we had
against liability, the only waywe could keep these people safe
was to really try.
make them select just the bestswimmers.
So we had these very carefultryouts.
SPEAKER_01 (15:05):
So let me, let me, let me stop you there if I can,
Susan, because I think, I thinkpeople are so, cause there's two
different things you've talkedabout.
You've given us, we were, wewere, everybody was listening to
was swimming with the turtles.
I think so.
I was, I was like, Oh, I gottago.
I gotta go swim with someturtles.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
Fascinating is that I think, I don't want to skip
over the fact that I can't justgo down to my pond and start
this, that these people areactually, are they trained as
well as have to try out to be apart of this group?
I mean, there's this veryangelic part that you've told us
(15:44):
about, but let's not skip overthat.
You can't just go into a pondand do this.
You actually should get trainedand or be physically fit for it.
Is that a fair statement?
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Not quite.
Not quite.
Fair enough.
Okay.
What I thought you were going tosay is you can't just go down to
a pond and expect turtles tocome to you.
Well, no,
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
you can't.
That's a regional thing, too.
UNKNOWN (16:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
But no, once in 2023, sorry, we held tryouts,
and we went from five people to21.
Okay.
Wow.
So these are all physically fit.
But all we did was to find outthat they could swim.
find out that they could use amask and snorkel, find out that
(16:27):
they could dive at least toeight feet, sometimes more.
And then it was turn them loose.
So I would say, here's a map.
You're going to go here.
You're going to go there, sendthem all in teams.
And sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
That's okay.
A little, a little, a littledrink is always good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
It's allergy season.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Well, Let me ask you one other question, because one
thing you've said also is thatyou've gone to these, quote,
homeowners associations, yousaid, and you said that you knew
where the ponds were and whatwas in those ponds.
How did you know that?
I mean, knowing where they are,that's easy enough.
I can Google map where a pondis.
(17:13):
But because these people seemvery shocked with what's coming
out of their ponds.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
We scout every pond that we clean.
We don't get them.
show up and launch this hugeeffort with the kayakers coming
and the garbage truck coming andthe cookies, the cookies coming.
We scout the ponds.
And when I leave you today, it'sraining and it's 63 degrees and
(17:41):
I will be in two different pondsthis afternoon with a bunch of
other people seeing, is thereenough garbage?
Where is it?
What kind is it?
What do we need?
So on the basis of that, I will,for my dives, the ones I'm in
charge of, I pick the number ofswimmers.
I pick the routes.
And this year will be the firsttime that other people besides
(18:05):
myself will have organized thesedives.
We have 20 in a season.
And Wednesday, I will beswimming for another, for OLAG,
but for another team.
And I will have to do what I'mtold.
And that's a challenge.
It's okay.
You can do it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
You've talked to turtles.
You can be aware.
So you scout these ponds.
And these are my words as I askthis, but are ponds kind of like
secret garbage cans?
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
No, they're like secret gardens that have a
problem.
And our job is to restore themto their secret gardens.
Because they're all kind of the
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
ecosystem, aren't they?
Ponds are like their own littleecosystem, right?
Their
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
own little ecosystem, exactly.
And everything in there works asclosely as the parts of our body
work together.
They are fantastic.
And they don't need a gallon ofwater.
windshield wiper fluid and theydon't need a car battery and
they don't need rotting tires.
(19:17):
So we take those out and restoreit to a secret garden.
I love that.
I think of them as the lasttruly wild places, the last
fragments of natural beauty onCape Cod because no roads, no
farming, no trails, no picnictables, no graffiti.
(19:38):
But that's our job is to makesure that there's No blemishes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
So this is a legit question, but how big is a pond
before it becomes a lake?
In other words, how big arethese ponds that you're
cleaning?
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
The difference technically between a pond and a
lake is that anybody of waterthat is so shallow that a plant
can grow all the way across is apond.
And that's maybe 30 feet deep.
Whereas if...
light can't get to the bottombecause it's 60 feet deep.
It turns into a lake.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Okay.
Because I know there's somebodyout there who's listening to
this going, I never knew thatbecause you got creeks and you
got lakes and you got, you know.
People call
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
local bodies of water are called whatever the
people around them want to callthem.
Touche.
On Cape Cod, Our 860 pondsinclude a 750-acre lake.
So we've got two gigantic ones,and we have hundreds of
(20:47):
four-acre, six-acre ones.
We tend to do the sort of30-acre and up.
Okay.
So I would say three-quarters ofa mile around to...
Seven miles around.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
So these are decent-sized lakes.
I mean, excuse me, ponds.
Excuse me.
These are decent-sized ponds.
But let's just say I'm anaverage homeowner.
I have a dear friend of mine whohas a pond in his backyard that
he's always complaining he getsalgae or he always complains.
But that algae, what you'resaying, or that algae or that
(21:26):
muck, his words, not mine,That's kind of its own little
ecosystem.
That's like we need to keepthat.
Is that correct?
It's the tires we want out.
It's the but the the naturalgrowing of a pond is what you
ladies are trying to save.
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
That's true.
You also, if you have a pondwith a whole lot of houses
around it and they have septicsystems, that fertilizer from
the septic system is going tosupercharge those ponds.
That's not good either.
It's very natural, but it meansthat the algae could be
cyanobacteria, could be justnormal algae and the water
(22:06):
lilies and the pond weed and thequillwort, that's all going to
grow much faster than it should.
So all ponds try to becomefields.
They try to become swamps andthey try to become fields.
It's nice if we can let thathappen very, very slowly so we
can enjoy them for swimming foras long as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
So you're saying respect the pond.
Cause I don't think a lot of, Ithink, I think as soon as a pond
becomes a lake, which happens todo with depth as we just
learned, you know, somehow alake gets respect the ocean gets
respect but a pond yeah that'sjust frogs and turtles which I
happen to like both of thosecritters but I'm just saying no
(22:51):
you're right ponds don't pondsare a pond you know so you
ladies are to re-educate us oneven the beauty of a pond
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yes, yes.
We raise awareness about a lotof things.
And one is the, I'm going to useyour term, the hidden garden.
These are the hidden gardens ofCape Cod.
And they are simply beautiful.
At the same time, I'm perfectlyhappy that most tourists go to
the beach and the ocean anddon't go to my ponds.
(23:23):
Okay.
But.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Well, yeah.
Okay.
So, so.
There's a couple things that wewanted to touch on.
First of all, I think you guysare great.
And from 65 to 85 is the yearsof the ladies that you have.
How many ladies make up the oldladies right now?
30.
30.
Do you ever want to expand?
(23:47):
I mean, because there's pondseverywhere,
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
not just in Cape Cod.
We have five states that wantchapters and two countries.
So Sweden, Belgium...
Texas, Illinois, Nevada,Florida, New Hampshire,
Connecticut.
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
Well, let me tell you, Florida has a lot of ponds.
I have family in Florida, andthey could use some TLC.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
And they have alligator snappers, so I'm not
going to lead the training downthere.
I'm scared enough of the ones.
We've got 50 and 60-poundsnapping turtles here, and it
used to be my job to swim outahead and alert people to the
snapping turtles, but...
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Well, that is a very interesting question.
So I have two questions for you.
First of all, what are thecritters that you have to come
across?
I know I went tubing one time inMaryland and there was a
absolutely beautiful and thankgoodness, very far away
rattlesnake lounging on a rockin the middle of a place.
UNKNOWN (24:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
What is some of the most interesting animals you've
come across, and what is some ofthe most interesting things
you've dug out of these ponds?
SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
I'll start with the latter because it includes the
former.
The most interesting thing wedug out was an 80-pound blue
toilet.
Okay.
Found the toilet, and it wasreally hard.
We had to lasso the tank, and wecouldn't re-find it, but we
found it on the scouting.
(25:20):
And that...
Actually, that's one hell of atoilet.
That made...
And as we lifted it up for thispicture, and we'd re-found the
thing, and we'd gotten it in, wewere so happy.
Out comes a full-sized eel rightfrom the throat of the toilet.
You know, like, whoa! Um...
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Wow.
So that's the most unusual forsure.
I mean, you did mentionsomething as elegant as
100-year-old blue glass when wefirst started this interview.
And you want to find somethinggreat.
We
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
found a couch.
Yeah, we found futons, a sink, acrib bumper, rugs.
No
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
mafia bodies like up at Lake Tahoe and stuff, or Lake
Mead, I think, here inCalifornia.
They found all kinds of...
They solved some interestingmurders from way back in the
70s.
Thank
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
goodness nothing like that.
We are waiting for that day.
We have found a sealed garbagecan down there.
We can't re-find it, but wewonder what's in that.
And we found a bone once, butwe're hoping it was from a deer,
not from a person.
But of course, every how Youknow, I want to go and buy one
(26:39):
of those hands made out ofbones, except the person who
would find it would have ananeurysm and then it would be my
fault.
So I better not.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
Yeah.
I mean, you guys are you guysare up there.
Let's not push it.
You guys are doing great
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
at your age.
Right.
And they're very territorial,and especially in May and June,
they don't want you in yourterritory.
And we've learned, you know, youdon't go between a snapping
(27:14):
turtle and deep water.
That's their escape route.
You go way behind them and thissort of thing.
It's interesting, though, what Ihear most about from the women,
and of course they've got eyesonly for trash, is that...
They are really very moved whenthey swim through a 36-foot
(27:37):
school of baby perch or whenthey see an enormous bass with a
hook still in its mouth or alittle jaunty fish with a hook
that is in its body still andit's swimming around, you know.
And so there are many things.
things that we see that thatwe're moved by the beauty we're
(27:59):
we're moved by the sadness umand we're of course uh moved by
righteous indignation to get thetrash out so there's a
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
figure if the bass can make it with a hook in its
mouth you can make it one morestep and clean up a pond ah
SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
You think there ought to be a better way, you
know, either catch him or, youknow, I mean, this was it looked
like one where it was catch andrelease and the guy couldn't get
the hook out.
So he just cut it.
And I say a guy, but it could bea woman.
The fisher person.
The fisher person.
Yeah.
(28:39):
There's no free lunch, and youcan see that underwater.
Everything that we do toentertain ourselves has a cost
to the natural world, and we seethat when we dive, as well as
just the pure beauty.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
Which, again, I think people think of ponds, and
I think they perhaps, and I willthrow myself under the bus here,
perhaps I even forget.
the beauty of a pond.
I mean, the ocean can take mybreath away, but I can't tell
you when was the last time Iwent, what a beautiful pond.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
That's because we haven't gone underwater.
That's where the action is.
You've got to go down into thegarden.
You can't just stop at the wall.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
So I know you had talked about, before we came on,
that you had written a book.
So is the book about...
some of these adventures.
What is your book about?
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
The book is about, it's swimming with the turtles
of Wonderland, how wonderreconnects us to the natural
world.
And it's about the 18 years thatI swam by myself, probably
covered about 1500 miles allseasons and swam with these
turtles and how close I was ableto get to them and began
(29:58):
realizing that they wereindividuals, that they had
different personalities.
And still figured that I was thesuperior being and I was taking
notes on these turtles.
And then one day I was lookingat the turtles and I know how to
wiggle my fingers and get themto come up to me.
And this male turtle wasswinging back and forth and back
(30:19):
and forth and just not doingwhat a turtle was supposed to
do.
He disappears.
And in an instant, I feel theselittle pinpricks coming up the
back of my wetsuit and theturtle disappears.
grabbed onto my shoulder.
I'm freaking out, so I'm tryingto swat him off, but before I
could get there, he gives me apoke, jumps into the water in
(30:42):
front of me, and suddenly Irealize I see this big bulge in
his tail, and male turtles keeptheir private parts in their
tails.
I was being hit on by a turtle.
He found me irresistible, and Iwas shocked and delighted, and
all of a sudden, I just,everything turned.
(31:03):
It just, my concept of lifereally turned around and I
realized that everything inlife, every tree, every blade of
grass, every butterfly and birdand turtle was an individual and
was as intent on living foreveras I wanted to be, as I was.
Wow.
And I waded out of that pondinto a much larger world that
(31:28):
day.
And the book is about theexperience of what wonder, what
enchantment, what awe, what thatdoes to a person over time and
how it does it.
And being a retiredpsychologist, I could do some of
the research as well as livingit so I can get it from both
(31:49):
sides.
So
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
basically, a turtle turn on is what took you to a
different level ofunderstanding.
Yes.
Yes, that is exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
I love it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
love it.
A turtle turn on.
Hey, you know, I hope he still Ihope he came a little closer
with something maybe more of ashell next time, but it still
made an impact in the world.
Absolutely.
It
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
certainly did.
That was.
Yeah, I suppose he's my coauthor.
SPEAKER_01 (32:21):
Well, I love it.
So, okay.
Well, then you've got to tell usthe name of the book and it
isn't called Turtle Turn On.
What is the name of your book?
No, it's Swimming with theTurtles of
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Wonderland.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
Swimming with the Turtles of Wonderland.
So, and like I say about mypodcast, when I say to people,
you can get my podcast whereveryou get your podcast.
Can we say that about your book?
We can,
SPEAKER_00 (32:43):
where can we find your book?
Okay.
It's being published by theUniversity of Massachusetts
Press and they will...
Put it in independent bookstoreswherever there are ponds.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
Wherever there are ponds.
I love it.
Hey, you know, turtles.
Who knew they were so frisky?
Quite frankly, I had no idea.
I had no idea.
Oh, they have harems.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Well, you know what?
There's like a whole bunch ofharems.
to go do my research.
I had no idea male turtles weresuch gigolos.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
my God.
Well, females turtles can holdsperm live for a year.
So rather than having a matingseason and then gestation and
then eggs, it's mating seasonall the time, except when they
hibernate.
And up here, they hibernate inNovember, December, and they
(33:40):
hold their breath until March.
So there is no animal on theplanet that holds its breath as
long as a pond turtle in NewEngland.
And you'd say, I used toteach...
turtle stuff to kids.
And I would say, these areanimals.
They breathe.
They come up to the top of thesurface and they breathe.
(34:02):
They need air.
They have lungs.
How do you live for five monthswithout taking a breath?
And then I told them the onefact that they will remember,
the one, that they will rememberthe rest of their lives.
And that is that snappingturtles do something called butt
breathing.
They pull water in and out oftheir butts and have little
(34:23):
sacks that are able to getenough oxygen out of the water
that just barely keeps themalive.
So who knew turtles were sointeresting?
SPEAKER_01 (34:35):
All right.
So for everybody who's drivingin their car and listening to
this podcast, we have gone fromcleaning pods to butt breathing
in about 10 minutes.
And you're hearing this right.
And I think we all should giveturtles like a little bit of our
time.
as they are really fascinating.
(34:56):
Ponds are secret gardens.
Turtles are a heck of a lot morefascinating than we thought, to
the point that, you know, I'malmost going to have to put an X
rating on this show.
But I'm sure your mission ismore than just cleaning ponds
and loving turtles.
What's the overall mission forOld Ladies Against Underwater
(35:19):
Garbage?
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
What I think, you know, we've...
had a lot of publicity.
And so I've had the opportunityto talk to people who talk to
environmentalists.
And I always turn the questionaround.
And I will turn the questionaround to you.
And I say, you've interviewedall these people.
What motivates them?
(35:42):
And I've done these these radioprograms and TV programs and
podcasts all over the world.
And what I get back is that ifyou're talking to the United
States, the motivation is, Ineed a purpose in my life.
I want to do something good.
Let's help the planet.
Okay.
If you are up in Europe orAfrica or United Arab Emirates,
(36:09):
It's fear and guilt.
Look at the mess we've made.
It's our responsibility to cleanit up or holy crap, the train's
coming down the track of climatechange and pollution and we are
going to get badly, badly hurt.
We better do something beforeit's too late.
UNKNOWN (36:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
None of those, not righteousness, not the need to
do good, not fear, not guilt,none of those are easy to scale
up.
They all cost.
It's hard to get people to cleantrash at the side of a highway.
It's hard to get people to planta thousand trees.
(36:52):
Whereas we've got a waiting listof 45 women who Wherever we go,
people want to join us.
So what's the difference?
And the difference is that weare motivated by joy.
And that doesn't mean we justdecide that we're going to be
happy.
When we're underwater, we are insomething called,
psychologically, it's called theflow or the zone.
(37:14):
When you are physicallychallenged, you're a body,
you're climbing a rock face,you're swimming in freezing ice
water, you're...
Cleaning a pond.
Trying
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
to step through things you can't necessarily
see.
You
SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
are so challenged right up to your max that you
have no space in your head foryour own concerns.
You are liberated from your ownconcerns.
podcast and chatter and stuffthat goes on in your head.
And for an hour, you are setfree from the cage of yourself
(37:52):
and you go through and you arejust a body alive doing
something very hard well.
And you come out of the water.
We are pumping our fists.
We are smiling ear to ear.
And everybody who sees us says,what are they smoking?
Where do I get that?
(38:12):
How can I join?
We've got a way of doing goodthat helps us as much as it
helps the pond.
And that's easy to scale up.
And that, to my mind, is theanswer.
That is the next chapter for allenvironmentalism.
Figure out how to get people inthe flow.
(38:33):
It's not easy and you can't doit all all the time.
But then you can't stop them.
from doing good.
We need that around the world.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
We do.
We do.
In fact, it's interesting.
I do talks around the UnitedStates and around the world
about finding your why.
Why do you get up and do thisthing?
Why do you join Rotary?
Why do you do these things?
So I think finding that joy,finding that why, finding that
zone are so important to Thatthen when we're out of that
(39:05):
zone, it doesn't seem so badbecause we know we can get back
to that why.
We know we can get back to thatjoy.
It's there.
It hasn't gone anywhere.
We just got to get to a pond.
SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
It's like rain and sun.
You cycle through life.
But once you understand that andonce you understand that joy is
as likely as will return asinevitably as sorrow, then you
become more patient.
So are you a better person?
Hell yeah.
(39:37):
And I would say that all of usweighed out of a pond a better
person.
We feel stronger.
We feel kinder.
We feel more ready to help.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Wow.
Well, you ended that.
You said the last words weremore ready to help.
I know you get paid withcookies, which is great.
However, this has to...
costs something.
I mean, the first thing I thinkof is, and I don't know, maybe
my mom raised me to worry toomuch, but I mean, a snapping
(40:12):
turtle, they snap.
I mean, injuries could happen.
Things could happen.
Worry
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
about that.
We worry about that.
Nice of you to ask.
Really, It doesn't take much.
People have their own kayaks.
We have our own bathing suits.
It doesn't take much to clean apond.
What about insurance or thingslike that?
Liability insurance.
Liability insurance.
Okay.
All right.
And so we have a website, whichis olog-ma.com.
(40:43):
And we have a donation page.
But personally, I am lookingfor...
three organizations.
I found one.
I need two more who will donatelike 700 bucks a year to us
because our liability insurancecosts 2000 a year and we don't
have dues.
We, you know, and if we couldfind three organizations that
(41:06):
would, would donate 700 bucks ayear to us, we would know that
we can just keep on buyinginsurance and we can keep on
creating chapters because wecan't do that without the
insurance.
So what's your vision then?
My
SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
vision is not just the 700 bucks.
Cause if anybody's hearing ourvoice right now, and if you want
to give straight up the 2000 inyour chapter, um, no, no, The
old ladies against underwatergarbage are not I'm not getting
a kickback from the show.
This is a straight up.
If you wish to participate inthe wonders, that is this this
(41:46):
wonderful organization, theywould love the insurance.
That all being said, let's saythat's already been manifested
for the next, I don't know, 10years.
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
My what is your what's your vision?
Oh, I want a chapter in notevery zip code, but I want five
chapters in every state that hasponds.
Which is all 50 states, isn'tit?
Does everybody have ponds?
I would say there are a coupleof states that don't have many
ponds.
(42:15):
Maybe Arizona.
Yeah, more like.
But anyway, oh my gosh, sorryabout that.
It's okay.
Anyway, yeah, I would like a tonof chapters because I think it's
because, not so much of thetrash even, it's because we
(42:37):
become so much better people, somuch kinder people, so much more
ready to help.
My group goes on to dowastewater and urine diversion
and pond coalitions, but they'reso happy.
If we can hapify, joyify, youknow, 5,000 women, women over,
(43:00):
Margaret Mead said there is nopower in the world like the zest
of a postmenopausal woman.
If we can empower thousands ofthem, the world will be a better
place.
SPEAKER_01 (43:14):
Find more zest.
Is that what you're saying?
Find more zest, protect morepawns.
and be an active person and gethappy.
I don't think that's, thatsounds like pretty good.
So Susan, you have this awesomebook.
You have this awesome mission.
We need three clubs for$700.
(43:35):
We're going to manifest that allof those things happen and are
wonderful and hold this visionof a magical pond existence
around the world.
Does that sound good?
SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yes, yes, it sure does.
I
SPEAKER_01 (43:52):
think that does sound good.
So from the bottom of my heart,Susan Bauer, thank you so much.
And please give our absolutebest to all the old ladies
against underwater garbage.
Please be safe and please keeptelling people that just because
you're 65 or older, you ain'tdead.
(44:12):
You ain't dead, Susan.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Nope, nope.
Action to, action to impact.
Action to impact.
That's so weird.
Thank you so much.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
Thank you, Susan and all the members of the Old
Ladies Against UnderwaterGarbage.
I love the name.
I will forever love the name.
And hey, if you're hearing myvoice and you want to help them
out, Google them.
They are easy to get a hold ofand Susan really, really needs a
(44:44):
little help with the insurance.
And hey, next time you go by apond or do you have a local pond
in your community, remember,Susan said way at the beginning
of this interview that peopleare always surprised by what's
in their pond.
And for all the geeks out there,now you officially know the
difference between a lake and apond.
(45:08):
But I still don't know what acrick is, but I'll work on that
for a later podcast.
Alright then, let's see.
If you want to get in touch withmy more musical side, check me
out on Rotary Radio UK.
And if you want to listen toanother great pod Then check out
this one next week, the Actionto Impact podcast, where I
(45:29):
introduce you to those amazingpeople turning their actions
into impact.
Until next week, everybody, thesend-off is still the same.
Take care of yourself and theworld around you, and we'll hear
you next time.
Remember, on the Action toImpact podcast.
I know, it'll take a littlegetting used to, but you'll get
(45:50):
the hang of it.
Hear you next week, everybody.
Take care.
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