July 2, 2026 • 52 mins
I joined Zahra Sethna of Collapse Life to discuss the various "predictive programming" efforts we see across popular culture including movies, TV shows and music.
One particular show we highlighted is the 2019 BBC/HBO miniseries "Years and Years".
We also discussed the topic of infiltration in the Independent Media space and how people can discern and navigate this increasingly complex space.
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One particular show we highlighted is the 2019 BBC/HBO miniseries "Years and Years".
We also discussed the topic of infiltration in the Independent Media space and how people can discern and navigate this increasingly complex space.
Show notes
Watch you YouTube
Watch on Rumble
Visit the website for more content and sign-up to the newsletter to have all investigations, articles, videos and podcast episodes delivered to your inbox as they are published.
Also check the private community and official merch store.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Forget about legacy media, but you also have to be
very very discerning when you listen to supposedly alternative media.
And the key thing to understand, just like with legacy media,
it's exactly the same who is funding them?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Where's the money coming from? Like, who's funding them? Right?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
If they take money from like you know, people with
certain agendas, right, like you know, like the Wellness company
or certain people who want to push multipolarism and say that,
like you know, China are the good guys now or
maybe they're not the good guys or who knows what
you know?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hello and welcome. I'm Zara Setna and this is Collapse Life.
Please make sure you're subscribed to this channel to get
notifications about all our latest interviews. If the last decade
have taught us anything it's that the boundary between fiction
and reality is becoming increasingly blurred. From dystopian films to
viral Netflix shows. We often see ideas like digital currencies,
(00:51):
biometric ideas, and AI driven governance appear in fiction years
before they show up in policy discussions. So are these
works of fiction simply creative storytelling or are they part
of a broader ecosystem of narrative shaping and mind control.
Today we're joined by Michael Ginsburg. He's a contrarian thinker,
technologist and founder of Actionable Truth and independent media platform
(01:13):
in Australia. Michael, Welcome. We've still been looking forward to
speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, Zara, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It's great to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Just for those in our audience who aren't familiar with
you in your work, do you want to give a
really quick summary of your background?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, okay, So my background is in technology.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Did a lot of basically work my ti adult life
in technology, did a lot of roles including technology consulting,
worked for two of the big four consulting firms. So
really was like, you know, in the belly of the beast.
Before obviously I realized that there is a beast, so
so been around in that space for for a long time.
I had, I guess, an awakening, my own awakening moment
(01:55):
during COVID that kind of came quite late, came towards
the mid middle of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Uh And and.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Once I've had that, it's kind of like, you know,
one of the things that I found personally lacking for
me for my own personal needs was kind of like
a solution based uh, independent media.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So basically like instead of like.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You know, telling me, okay, well we're all going to
be a slave, We're all gonna be that, we're all
gonna die.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
See you next week. Okay, well what are we gonna do?
Like how can we stop this? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So that's kind of where the idea for my my
own platform came came from, because I just couldn't find content.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Uh that kind of served my my needs in that space.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And that's why it's called actionable truth, right, So I
always and to focus on on the actionable part and
obviously make sure that it is the truth. Uh. And
that's kind of kind of how I got into this space.
So when I guess, when I had when I started,
when I launched the platform, so I did a two
part series where I explained kind of my own personal
journey to awakening, right, Uh, two pretty pretty detailed articles
(02:54):
people can go and read.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It's the oldest ones on my website. Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And and the second part of that, right, I kind
of touched into a lot of I guess, the predictive programming,
the the the narrative management that has been happening really
for years like you know, decades in pretty much all
like you know, mass media be like you know, music,
big TV, big movies, like I mean, Hollywood is like
(03:22):
you know, d like you know, the top thing, the
top dog when it comes to that sort of stuff.
So I kind of like, you know, that was kind
of really my big realization that what it's been happening
has kind of been foretold for a very very long time,
and in quite a like in your face kind of way.
We just, I guess, until it actually happens in real life,
(03:43):
you don't realize that they've been telling you that this
is coming right and and very much in your face.
So yeah, that that's kind of I guess brings us
to the topic of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Perfect. First of all, I love your work.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I think it's great, and I do love the you
focus on solutions or that's that's at the heart of
why you started your platform, because even though Collapse Life
sounds a little bleak, that's also our motivation is to
help people understand what's going on, because you can be
more in control when you're actually aware of things, and
we always try to focus our conversations around what people
(04:19):
can do actionable steps that people can take. And it's
getting harder and harder to ask those questions in these
interviews because you know, we're in it now, and more
and more people are like, well, I'm not sure if
there's any more we can do. But funnily enough, on
a live stream just a couple of days ago, somebody
typed in a comment where they accused us of being
toxically optimistic.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So I don't know. I don't know if maybe people
are actually to.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Be optimistic, they're toxically optimistic than pessimistic. But the most
important thing is to also be a realist, right we
need to, And that's what I kind of try and
mentioned in a lot of the other interviews that I've
done on pretty much every topic.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It doesn't matter. I always comes to the same point.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
If we don't get our shit together right and actually
start doing what is necessary to stop the agenda, it's
not gonna stop. If all we're gonna do is just
like you know, pray and argue almost ourselves, then things
are not gonna change. And and and and like you know,
if if we think that things are pretty bad now,
we haven't seen nothing yet, right, so so we the
(05:22):
optimistic side is we can absolutely stop that, absolutely without
a shad over doubt. But we need to do the
right thing, and we need to do it now. The
window of opportunity is closing. And if we continue on
the path that we are on, and I'm talking about
we as India way, I'm not even talking about like
you know, the NORMI is that you know, the brain
(05:43):
a booster, forget about them. But if we continue with that,
with what we're doing, on the path that we are
on right now and fighting among ourselves over nonsense and
focusing on things that don't matter right now, things are
gonna be really bad and there is really no to
be optimistic about it.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So back to our topic at hand, in terms of
predictive programming, I wanted to have.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You maybe just define your view on what.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That is because a lot of people who may hear
that term may immediately start thinking, oh, here's a bunch
of conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And then the next thing that kind of popped up
in my mind, and they're sort of related, is once
you started seeing this pattern, do you ever look back
at sort of classic movies now and say, what were
they trying to tell us with the Wizard of Oz
or the Manchurian candidate so over to you.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah. So, so.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I'm not going to use like, you know, the the
the the dictionary definition anyone can look that up or
like you no, predictive programming. Here's here's one way, and
I'm gonna use like a movie to explain that, which
I think I think is kind of fits in our conversation.
Think about Inception, right, if any you want to see
the movie Inception. Predictive programming is inception, except of, like,
(07:05):
you know, it's not like people who like, you know,
hack your brain, Well, it's not yet, right and and
and literally forcefully plant an idea in your head and
make it make you believe that it is your own idea, right,
That's what happens in Inception.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's the kind of like, you know, present an idea.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
To you, right, and and and it's an idea that
is repeated, like the repetition is the key here, right,
So it's.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Repeated again and again and again in multiple.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Ways to multiple angles, right, to make you kind of like,
you know, uh, come around to the idea that this
is within the realm of possibility or maybe this is
even a good idea, or maybe this is a desired outcome.
I mean, like you know, simple example would be like
you know, the alien agenda, right, I mean that's been
going on since like in a world of the world,
(07:52):
and like, you know, I don't know when was that,
like you know, the thirties, the forties.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right, uh And and I mean that was that was
at the time. It wasn't even prettive programming.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It freaked people out when like you know, the actual
radio broadcast came out, Like people started running. They thought, like, literally,
we're being invaded for Mars, like you know for Mars,
and and obviously age you well's it's like, you know,
he's made you major globalist.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So they've been doing it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So I guess the best way for people to understand
I guess my take on predictive programming is think inception
without the guys.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
That like you know, go into your brain and.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Hack it, right, So just dropping hints, telling stories. That
is it to just prime us to normalize a thing
or is it to make us.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Look another way?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Because if we actually see something in real life that
we've seen in fiction, we may say I don't know.
That can't be real because I saw it in a
movie sometimes like or is it the opposite that, like
that must be real because I saw it in a movie.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah. So so there's two aspects of that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So for a long time I always thought that, like
I thought that like you know, uh uh, predictive programming
was the primary thing or sorry, it's the only thing, right,
And I still think it is the primary thing, right,
it is the primary thing. But there's another element once
I started like in researching, because the other side, like
(09:15):
not the enemy, like the real enemy as I like
to refer to them. They have their own belief system
religion if you want to call it, right, I mean,
uh uh, you know, if people want to, like, you know,
look more into that, i'd recommend like in the series
by Bill Cooper, Mystery of Babylon, where it goes to
like you know, that's where it really goes back as
far back as it goes. But one of the core
(09:38):
beliefs or dogmas that they have within their religion, and
we're talking about like really the all those oldest people,
like you know, the ones we've been doing it, you
know since the Dawn of Men is revelation of the method. Now,
what is the idea behind the revelation of the method?
There is like you know, from their perspective, there's a
deep spiritual religious aspe back to that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
And what what is the aspect they believe that there they.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Will be protected like they have they will have karma
protection or their karma will be they will be protected
from karma. Right if they indicate in advance what they
are planning to do right now. As their religion evolved
over the years, it wasn't it didn't like it evolved
(10:28):
from just being a nice thing to do or like
an important thing to do. It is mandatory, right, It's
It's as mandatory as like you know, Jews and Muslims
are not.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Allowed to eat pork. It is mandatory.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So you must tell your victim what you're gonna do
to them before you do it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
But you're allowed to use symbology. You're allowed to use
like you know, hints, you don't just.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Correct subliminal methoding, so you don't have to come out
and say straight away.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And then what happens. There's two options.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Either your victim understands what they're planning, what you're planning
to do, and stops you. If they don't understand or
understand but fail to stop you, well that's on them, right,
So they're protected because then they're fulfilled literally their religious obligation.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
To reveal the method.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So that's the other aspect that is very very important
for that and all the mass media, right, especially entertainment
industry in all its forms, but especially like you know,
TV and movies.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
This is what it's useful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Right, So I say, now, like you know that Hollywood,
the primary objective of Hollywood is not entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's not even to make money. The primary objective why Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Was created, the reason why it was created is to
fulfill that religious obligation.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Interesting, so by that definition, then and everything is predictive
in some form or conditioning in some form. Because if
if everything that's being produced in Hollywood is some form
of revelation of the method, then all stories that are
calming out are.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You being used for conditioning?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So yeah, okay, so here's the thing. So I said
the primary purpose, okay, would be only purpose?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It almost becomes a little bit more diabolical then, because
then it's up to you to decide which ones, which.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
One, which ones are not and.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Sorry, go ahead, yet just one thing.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
So when you mentioned revelation of the method, I was thinking, suddenly,
on social media, I'm seeing a lot of videos and
they're across YouTube and they're years old, but suddenly I'm
seeing them. These so called magicians or lists or you know,
(13:02):
really like master influencers doing these videos where they show
people how you can be subliminally influenced. So we just
saw one recently with Ben Stiller and he's playing basketball
and the person he's playing with is asking him a
bunch of questions and then they have these cards on
(13:22):
the court and when they flip them over, it's all
the answers that he gave off the top of his head.
There's another one where they're bringing a woman through a
toy store in London and then they ask her a
bunch of questions and they show then how there were
all these things along the way from the minute she
(13:43):
walked into that store that conditioned her or primed her
to give the answers that she gave, which was, you know,
giraffe and the number sixty one or whatever. I'm making
this up, but these are all videos that show and
when you watch them, you go you're Oh my goodness,
look at that. Look how that subliminally influenced. But they're
(14:03):
telling you how it's done in a way.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
What we need to understand, right, So there's two aspects
of it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
The first aspect is definitely predictive programming, like they have
to normalize like certain things that are about to happen
because they know that they're about to happen. So it's
like you know, shifting the overturned window, right, But.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That's another thing.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So that's the more I guess the primary reason because
I guess not everyone on the other side has the
same religion or belief system. Like, no, they're not all Satanists,
they're not all Masons. There's definitely all those people there,
but they're not all the same. And there's some people who,
like you know, they don't they don't have any belief
system or like you know, or any religion. They're just
(14:42):
like you know, opportunists, right, Like they're like you know,
low level operators, Like I mean, I doubt that, like
you know, Bill Gates, right, has any like you know,
religious views on anything or any spirituality whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Right, So, so so.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
What we need to understand that, like you know, the
most important thing is definitely predictive to programming to move
the overturned window. But there's other people, like I guess,
the more higher levels, the ones that you know, you
don't know their names, the ones that you don't talk
about like you know every day, the ones who've been
added for a long time. You know, there's different names.
People use black nobility for that. Some people it doesn't
(15:18):
really matter, right, They actually do have a belief system
and they use all this mechanisms that they've created over
like you know years centurism, and you can go as
far back you you can say that, like you know,
the first attempt to do that was the printing press,
right to basically create this to fulfill this religious obligation
(15:40):
that they have to protect their own comma from la
you know, from you know, uh, getting punished for what
they've done or what they're about to do or they
plan to do what they want to do, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So so.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that
this thing is been going on for a long time.
But with the advancement of technology, right mass media, the internet,
they can reach a lot more people, right, and for them,
this is this is a lot more important because they
can influence the entirety of society, the entirety of body
(16:19):
politics a lot quicker. Right, time, time does matter, right,
That's what I'm saying, Like, I mean, it's not just
that we need to do the right thing, we need
to do the right thing on time before like you know,
the window of opportunity closes and we're all in the
digital Google again, it doesn't really matter what we do
or what we think, or do we like each other
or not?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Right, So that that's kind of where where I'm going
with that.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, you mentioned the term overton windows. So just for
anyone who's watching who doesn't know what that is or
isn't familiar with the concept, do you want to just
quickly explain your perspective of it.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, so I guess, I guess again, I'm not going
to use any Addictionary definitions.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
But the idea of the overturne window.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Is you make an idea before that was unacceptable or
unthinkable even to something that is kind of normalized.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, so now, like you know, we we can discuss
like you know, anything, like you know, starting from like
you know, virus no virus. The Nazis were bad, the
Nazis were good, like you know, communism, Like now that
there's a thing that's really started on Twitter since really
late last year, all about like and I'm about to
(17:27):
publish an article about it, all about multipularity, and all
of a sudden, like these accounts popped out of nowhere
where they basically present China.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
As the model.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, look, everyone is friendly, the sweets are clean, they're
like advanced, they're more advanced by decades. They have these
amazing trains, and they have these amazing robots, and they
have this technology.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
They're living in twenty fifty okay, right, and then then
claud Shwarp says, yeah, China is the model.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So this is obviously another attempt to switch the overtone window.
And some of them like they literally say it in
your face, like they say, well, if them is so bad,
fine I saw advanced or streets are so clean?
Speaker 5 (18:13):
What?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, I've seen those videos over the window.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Absolutely, it's a perfect example.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I've seen those videos as well, and I've also been
thinking about writing an article about it. But yes, all
of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's influencers, both the
kinds of influencers that you and I might watch, and
others who a whole different audience might watch, and they're
all parroting the exact same line, exactly the same thing.
(18:42):
Look at these high speed trains. What if we had
high spreed trains like this in North America or in Europe?
Or look how clean everything is. There's social credit score. No,
not really, it's certainly not national.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It's a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Right, yeah, very very interesting that that's happening. And it's
happening all of a sudden, all at once, like you know,
all almost coordinated.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And because it's social media, you don't even know like
whether these accounts are even human, right, I mean, you
have no idea, like you spoken out of nowhere, have
like hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter, you don't again,
you don't know how many of those followers are real.
So like you can create that like in two seconds,
I can tell you, like you know, as a tech guy,
I mean, you can create those accounts like you know,
by the bucket loads. Put each of them with three
million followers. You willn't know anything any better, right, and
(19:34):
they've been created literally two hours ago, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, I think it might be fun maybe to use
some other recent examples that people might be aware of
or might not be in and might go back and look,
But what are some things that, now that you have
this kind of awareness, what are some things that you've
seen on TV or in movies or even in AD
campaigns that really stuck out to you as being perfect Actually.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That campaigns, I actually have something like that, really really
good about it. And that's related directly to the age
verification legislation that kicked it in Australia December last year.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
December ten, Australia was the first.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Obviously, since then it has happened pretty much everywhere else.
And and I guess, so this is an ad right
that was released by the Each Safety Commissioner, which is like,
you know, the the government agency that enforces this age
verification mandates in Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And and I guess before I played.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
The interesting thing about it is how similar the talking
points are to what was used during COVID.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But during COVID it was like you know, protect the NHS,
protect grammar, protect the vulnerable in our society. Here it's
protect the children, right, and you know, for the better,
like you know, for for for the common good, right.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
For the good of Kirsty, for the good of Lucy
and Anya, for the good of Sam, for the good
of Holly, for the good of Noah, for the good
of their well being. From December ten, people under the
(21:25):
age of sixteen will no longer have access to social
media accounts. It's part of a new law to help
keep under sixteen safer online. For more details and to
help you prepare, go to e safety dot gov dot
au authorized by the Istralan government.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Camera you understand how it's done. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So Michael, if you oppose age verification on social media,
you obviously hate Kirsty.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
You could exactly what.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Exactly I want to expose your children to, like, you know,
predators and pedophiles, right that that's hey, because how can
you appoll protecting the children, right?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How can you oppose to protecting the inn they chance?
How can you oppost to protecting Grandma? I mean, come on,
what kind of a human are you? Right? So you
know what I mean? So this is not I mean,
this is an extreme example.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
This is not really predictive programming, because the idea with
predictive program is to do it over time, and you know,
shifting the overturn window is a process that takes a
long time. But this is like boom in your face.
It's just like before that you thought, oh this is unacceptable,
and I think, oh, well, you know, maybe maybe that's
the right thing to do. But they just want to
make that shift in one go because this is important.
(22:34):
They need to introduce it now. It's being introduced in
two weeks, and they need they need buying from the
people instead of pushback.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So they're gonna go boom, They're gonna.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Go hard, and they're giving people almost ammunition for anyone
who opposes it. You know, if you're riding on a
bus and you hear someone say it, you could say, well,
obviously we need to do this.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
We need to protect the children.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It's bad for children, it's dangerous, and don't you care
about childre It puts puts it into the perfect frame,
and it's just easily delivered into their hands. Yeah, so
it's not predictive programming. It's emotional manipulation. But they run
across the same spectrum.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And I guess a very extreme example and that was,
I mean something that really contributed all to my own
personal awakening. So that's why I like mentioning it is
the Freedom Convoy in Canada, right, oh you know Trudeau,
and obviously he's like, you know, he's just a puppet.
But Freeland was really running the show Christia Freeland, right,
I mean, they presented those people as neo Nazis, an
(23:34):
extreme ride far right, and like you know, they want
to overthrow the government. They want to like you know,
create a fascist dictatorship something like that. And okay, well
there's like Indian people there, and there's like you know, Muslims,
and there's like people of all walks of life.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You see like you know, you see a sea guy
with a turban. I'm far right, okay, you know you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
It's cosy castles and hot cocoa.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I mean, it's not exactly what you picture when you
picture a fascist far right movement exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And they needed to do it fast why because the
trackers were there, they were already in the capitol, and
it was gaining traction.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And obviously people realized, hey, this is like this is serious.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And especially when like you know, this very heavy handed
response from the government came, people even like complete like
you know, normally.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Is like realizy this.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This is the point where I definitely realized that something
else was going on, right, so they needed.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
To act fast. So this is I guess. I guess.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I don't know if that's a good example, because that's
a very in your face, not like you know, that's
not shifting the overturned window gradually, but like dragging it,
kicking and screaming in two seconds.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, and you recognize it now because you're more sensitive
I think, to reading under the subtext or reading under
under the surface and reading the subject and knowing why
things are being framed in a certain way. But it
hits you like a punch in the face, and others
may just go yeah, of course, course, of.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Course, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So I guess a more refined example, and I mean
I can provide a lot, but a more I guess
gradual example of or I guess predictive programming will be.
I would refer to that as predictive programming. I'm not
gonna take too much.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I don't know. If you've seen the show.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Before, do you want to know what happens next?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It was released on Amazon at the beginning of twenty twenty.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
Your father created a world changing, not world ending, A
world changing, world improving omnivirus, right, and we have taken
that virus and embedded in the vaccine of the S
TURNS flu.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So I don't know if you've seen that before. I
don't know if the audience have seen that before, but
I mean.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
No, you got me on that one. Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah. So that's a show. It's Amazon original. It's called You.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I believe it was made in twenty nineteen, but was
released in early twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
M not marking D.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Except I guess to say that that narrative of like
you know that the population, infertility, population collapse and all
that sort of stuff, it's not actually that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
New at all. Right, So if you want another example
of the same thing, but.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I want to let me pause you on this one
for one second because it brings up a thought for me.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
So the guy is there, he's.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Telling this group of people about this thing that they've done.
They're horrified. They obviously don't think that what he's telling
them is a good thing.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So he's portrayed as the bad guy.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
So if you're watching this in twenty nineteen, before the pandemic,
let's say you're going to relate more to the people
in the room, not the guy sitting on the cap
telling about this evil plot.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So how how does that work psychologically?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Because then when it really does happen in real life,
all those people standing in the room are.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
The same people who are like, oh, we all got
to go get.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Our shots because we got to you know, protect our community.
So how does that switch happen that the very same
people who are watching this show on Netflix would be horrified,
but when it happens in real life they roll up
their arms.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Excellent question. Excellent question. So, the way I think about it,
two things.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think the primary purpose of this particular show is
revelation of the method for this is to provide the
luck you know, the comic protection. Right that that is
definitely the primary purpose of that, and not a prominent
example I think for revelation of them or where that's
the primary purpose is the Matrix series, especially the first one, right,
(28:05):
So so that that that is the primary thing.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
The secondary thing, I guess is to kind of like
you know.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Think that like you know, not shift the overturn window,
but kind of to indicate to people that there are
some people who think that, like you know, human reproduction
is bad like you know, humans, humans are a disease.
They are like a plague on the earth, right, So
that that's kind of like you know, where people don't
necessarily have to agree with that, But the way it
works is like repetition, right, repetition, repetition, repetition, And even
(28:37):
if you don't agree with the idea, it starts kind
of like entering your head.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So this is like inception. The whole idea with inception
is like you know, I mean if if you've seen the.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Movie, it's not to like put ideas in the guy's
head that he's like you know, is agreeing with it,
is to put ideas in his head that are against it,
like you know, best interest, but he make it think
that it was his ideas right, right, So I put
an idea in your head, but you don't realize that,
like you know, someone hacked your.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Brain and put an idea in your in your head.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You think, oh, I came up with that, but you're
okay with it because it was your idea, right, But
that that's.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
You rationalize yourself around it, even if you start to think, oh,
maybe I was wrong, maybe I'm made a mistake.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
You you we have.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
This amazing ability, unbelievable ability to be able to rationalize
things and go no, no, no, no. I needed to do
this because of that. And therefore and there you know,
and you you you make yourself very quickly comfortable with
the decision that you made, because it's easier than going
back and admitting that you were wrong necessarily exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And I'm not gonna play that. But I mean, this
is from a movie. Right.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
There is this famous interview with Dennis Meadows, right, one
of the founders of the Club of Rome, right, where
he says that like, you know, I mean, are humans,
like you know, a lock will need to die, like
you know, if we do you're bright.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Like maybe a million will die, you know, or like
I want to do it in a peaceful.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Way, like you know, not violent, but like I want
I want it to happen without violence, but I want
most of you to die. Like he says that it
is not a movie, this is a real interview. Yes, right,
So this is not like an idea, So this is
a movie. Okay, people, Oh this is just an Amazon movie.
But there's a guy and this is not just some guy, right,
I mean, this is the guy who like on a
(30:23):
co author The Limits to Growth, Right, I mean this
is this is a major like you know, globalist like
you no thinker, right on the level of I don't know,
you've a right, maybe even more so.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
He's telling you to your face this is like, you know,
there's too many of you. We need to do something.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, right, yeah, So this is.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
This is I mean, you can say this is shifting
the overturn we do, but it's primarily like you know,
say like, look we can, We're gonna do this.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And so the one that you just showed, Utopia, I
haven't seen it, but even just from that short clip
that you just played, it seems pretty clearly written in
terms of the sort of black and white narrative that
most people can understand when they're passively watching TV. There's
(31:10):
another example that both you and I wrote about on
our respective platforms called Years and Years, which is a
multi part series that also came out I think in
twenty nineteen. I typically don't watch these things ever, or
certainly not at the time that they come out, so
this one came to me a couple of years later.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
But I remember.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
One scene that I had seen a clip of around
the time it came out where there's a young woman
who wants to have a conversation with her parents. She
just so has be biracial, which is just another this series.
We'll talk about it. It's so much more subtle than
the Utopia. There's so many things going on. Some of
(31:59):
them are in your face, some of them are really subtle.
So this young biracial teenage girl wants to have an
uncomfortable conversation with her parents. The parents are preparing themselves
for it, and they think that she's going to come
out and say she's gay, and they're okay with that,
and we love you and we still accept you, okay. Yeah,
(32:21):
And it turns out she doesn't want to. She just
doesn't want to be human anymore. She's she wants to
become transhuman.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, if you want, I can play that or we
can do okay, all right.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
I'm not comfortable with my body, so I want to
get rid of it, this thing, or the arms and
legs and every single bit of it. I don't want
to be flesh. I'm really sorry, but I'm going to
escape this thing have become digital.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, and I mean this is this is definitely not
so much revelation of the method, but definitely more on
the predictive programming shifting the overturn window thing, because I
know that people are aware of that, but like getting
rid of like you know, the flesh, like you know
the human body, Like that's that's a real thing, right,
(33:12):
and that's in transhumanism, like for real, this is like
the endgame, Like this is the utopia. And there's a
name for that. They have a name for it. It's
called this embodiment. The reason why it is the utopia.
There's a few people. I think there's I think a
lady by the name of maybe Jennifer Bilek.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think she wrote about it.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
She's that she's been on clubs Life. Yeah, she's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So she she wrote extensively about like explaining like it
is a proper idea, like they genuinely believe in that,
like you know Ari's book Homodure, Like you know a
man who is like gold. Why why are they like gold?
Because they never die? They live in the cloud. This embodiment,
it's a real thing, right. I Mean you can also
(33:59):
say that transgender agenda tizing to that, because once you
get rid of like you know, the differences between a
man and a woman, and you don't know what a
man and a woman and just.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Thirty genders will then just get rid of the whole
thing together. The body doesn't matter, will make babies and testubes.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
The other little hint that they dropped there is one
day there'll be clinics in Switzerland where you can do this. Well,
today there already are clinics in Switzerland for a different purpose,
for euthanasia. And that's another topic that has now become
squarely in the Overton window. We can talk about it,
(34:36):
and in fact, opposing it in many countries is again
you know, you're considered heartless and.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Stuck in the past.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
If you think that people shouldn't be able to choose
to have medically assisted dying. So that really kind of
leap frogs because as you watch that, if you put
yourself back into twenty nineteen, before we started having all
of these conversations, if you put yourself in twenty nineteen,
you would watch that there was a little bit of
(35:06):
futurism in there where she has this filter that she
can switch on in real life, not just on her
phone app, but the viewer very much identifies with the
parents who are just trying to keep up and be
compassionate and am I using the right words here?
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And I still love you?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And you know you really feel for the parent who
is just struggling to cope and be a good person
in this And this is I think in just the
early episodes of this series, which goes along and it
waxy with so many different narratives at once, bank rushes, populism,
(35:46):
the migrant issue, gay marriage.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Disabilities. I mean, it's just right, you can make a list.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, So, I mean that's why I said I think
I said in my post and I still believe that
so so years and Years is an extreme example.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's kind of like the matrix. Right.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Years and Years is an extreme example because it is
not just predictive programming or revelation of the method.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It is an.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Actual program of work that has been dramatized. So basically,
you take a document from the Rockefeller Foundation, right, assign
it in like roles, put actors, put a director, put
a writer. In this case, his name is Russell T. Davis, Right,
the same guy who's like behind doctor who just for
so people understand, right, and basically presented because nobody's going
(36:39):
to read a document, right, they're not going to fulfill
their obligation, right, and they're not going to normalize that
by someone reading like a dry like a report, fifty
page report from the Rockefeller Foundation, right, so they dramatize
it to you. They tell you, ind they tell you
exactly what they're gonna do. They tell you that in
the order that is going to happen, like literally the
(37:00):
six episodes, and you can tell like you know exactly
what's happening in each episode, right the UK. Literally right now,
they are towards the end of episode two and the
start of episode three, and I can I can show
you look what's happening, what's happening at the beginning of
episode three if you want, m all right, let's do that.
Tensions are high, with the major parties keeping an eye
(37:22):
on the full style parties.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Wild can't vote.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I think it might be a little bit tipsy.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
I haven't even voted yet. I'll be squiffy. I'll probably
take the wrong box.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
This is British wine for British people, and what it.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Deserves is tax breaks and subsidized transports.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
You can't raise taxes.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I'll impose a tariff on wines from abroad. Let them
pay false facts every day?
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Do you know where you can find the truth?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Right here? Fast start channel. God help us. We're the
only ones.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
God help us indeed now So I mean, I don't know,
some people really need things to be spelled out for
them because they just don't get it right. So four
Star Party right could be any I mean, initially I
thought it was reformed. Reform is obviously self destructing, right,
(38:18):
so it's obviously like I mean farage and all that,
that's a farce right any any Like, I mean I
think most people were like, we're even planning to vote
for them, They're kind of move on from that, right.
It's basically a Torris Live or Toys b or whatever.
So now you have this new pair, both of them
heavily supported by Elon Mask right also supported the AfD
(38:39):
party in Germany, so you.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Have uh uh.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Restore Britain right, and the other one was Ben Habib,
so basically he has Initially it was.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I thought that he would be like the leading role,
but it's obviously now like you know, Rupert Law right
the head Restore Britain. That's viv, Yeah, that is viv.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
If you guys don't get it, now she has her
own TV station. Now Rupert doesn't have his own TV station,
but the people who run him, right, which is an
entity called Legatum. Right, if people want to look into that,
I've done a pretty a detailed interview on the Dogmatic
podcast together with my colleague Ursula Agington, who's like, really,
she's the expert on Legatum, Like I mean, I would
(39:26):
say she's the world authority on the topic. Right, And
people can go and check this out and understand what
this entity is. Hm. They have this thing, this TV
channel that all of a sudden emerged as a pandemic
started called GIBB News.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Right, that's the four style live, right.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I need to do it because I realized that people
don't get it, Like even if it's like relatantly obvious
in your face, people don't get it. Now, just to
finish that point, so you know how in Utopia, right,
this guy said people are upset by they need to
know what happens next? Would you like to know what
happens next? Again for the benefit of people? Again from
(40:05):
like you know, years and years, but that's I believe
episode four. So do you want to know what happens next?
Let me show you what happens next.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
As twenty twenty nine begins, the charter for the British
Broadcasting Corporation has been withdrawn.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
The BBC is now closed.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
Sage, thank you, good night and good luck.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
A journalist has been from Journey Street. After challenging the
Prime Minister.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
It said that Russia have been funding the Four Star Party.
Great news every time records of sexual harassment within four
Star headquarters. Packie is heavily implied that the voting was raised.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
You are the enemy of the people.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Is there are questions about your income tax retires.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
This is why journalism is dying.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
Missus Rucas also a million pounds to the fight against
monkey flu.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
The epidemic continues to rage or an estimated one thy
two hundred dead.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So this is this is an extreme example.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
This is this is this is serious, like someone has
obviously put a lot of effort into that.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay, this is this is and obviously the hired like
you know, uh huh, like.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
A happy hitter in like you know, in British television.
I mean, like I'll just read briefly is bio on IMDb.
So that's that's the writer Russell T. Davis, often described
as a genius.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Russell T.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
David is one of the leading British television writers of
his generation, who specializes in emotional drama, frequently with gay
and sex related adult themes. After graduating from Oxford University,
initially took a BBC Television's director course in the nineteen
eighties and briefly moved in front of the camera to
present a single episode of the BBC version of Play
(41:45):
School in nineteen eighty seven, before deciding his abilities laying
production rather than presenting blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Right, So that's Thompson and the Thompson is no small
potatoes either exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
And and I think I don't know her name.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I just I could probably look it up, but uh,
the grandma, like you know, the old lady there. I
think she's she's a pretty heavy hitter in British television
as well. Uh so, yeah, I mean this is only
only only six episodes because they tell you like fast,
like you know, Foster threat, what they're gonna do. And
I'm not gonna like it. I'm not gonna mention what
(42:20):
happens on episode six. People are gonna can go and
watch for themselves. But this is a program of work.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
This is not just predictive programming.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
They they brought a white paper to life in this
six episode series, and people really do need to watch it.
Watch it on instead of on double speed, which we
watch most videos faster. You need to slow this one
down and analyze every scene and what's happening and as
you said, the little details, the little subliminal notes, because
(42:50):
there is so much packed into these six episodes, and
people like me didn't even know what was happening because
I don't really watch this stuff. But you're right, it
tells us exactly what has already happened, what's happening now,
and what's going to happen in the very near future.
We could keep going on, and I would love to say, Michael,
(43:12):
that we should do this as a live stream so
that we can have an interactive discussion one day soon.
But I think we're coming to the close of an hour,
and since we mentioned already that your solutions oriented, I
wanted to turn as we start to close towards some
discussion about what people can do. Are there signals that
(43:35):
people can look for when they're seeing narratives, whether they're
in fiction or in ad campaigns or in the news,
the so called news.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
What signals can people be looking for to.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Indicate that they're being conditioned towards accepting something?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, look, I mean within you it's pretty simple, right,
just don't watch it, right, simple as that, just lack
legacy media.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
I do have you mentioned also doing this context that
Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than that, right, I
thought it would just forget about legacy media, look for
independent media, and everything is anky, Dori. Unfortunately that's not
the case. That is that is certain without a shread
over doubt. So uh, I think I think you had
you had David Hues on your show a couple of
weeks ago, and he has this framework of like you
(44:20):
know the three camps, right, so camp one, Camp two,
Camp three. So Camp one is obviously legacy media. Camp
two is you know, what we call the mainstream alternative media,
or like you know the big names in this space,
which are basically exactly the same like legacy media. Right,
they're like literally in many cases funded by the same people. Right,
I mean a lot of the platforms that are supposedly
(44:41):
alternative media are funded by the same people. Primary examples
for that would be Rumble in substack. Rumbo has the
same corporate shareholder. Rumble is a publicly listed company. Now
they have exactly the same shareholders as Alphabet, exactly the
same people, go and look it up, right, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
The same owners. It's like pepsinco. Right. Subseack is a
bit more complicated.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I've done a lot of like you know, discussions about that,
and people can go and have a look.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I've got an article on my website as well.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So you need to understand forget about legacy media, but
you also have to be very very discerning when you
listen to supposedly alternative media. And the key thing to understand,
just like with legacy media, it's exactly the same who
is funding them?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Where's the money coming from? Like who's funding them? Right?
Speaker 1 (45:25):
If they take money from like you know, people with
certain agendas, right, like you know, like the Wellness company
for certain people who want to push multipolarism and say
that like you know, trying are the good guys now
or maybe they're not?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Are the good guys? Or who knows what you know?
So so people need to be very very legacy media
forget about it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
But I would say, you need to be as equally
discerning when you listen to alternative media, and you always
need to look at, Okay, who is funding them, because
that's where the truth lies. Right when they say they
are independent, are they really if they have advertisers? Okay,
who First of all, by definition they're not one percent dependent,
(46:05):
and then look at.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Who their advertisers are. Right. If the advertisers are.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
The wellness company, well, I don't know, maybe, like look
at what the wellness company is.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
And there's a lot of material about that, right, uh
so you need to look at that. Right if they
have investors, which is.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
A little bit more complicated to discern because obviously they're
not going to be talking about them on air, there's
also another thing that is important for people to understand.
So ultimately, look, ultimately everything boils down the ultimate solution.
You have to think for yourself and you have to
check what people are telling you because they may be lying,
(46:41):
and maybe they may be lying even unintentionally, unwillingly, maybe
even unknowingly.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
But you have to go and verify things for yourself.
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Right, there's a there's a there's a there's a documentary, right,
I think it's called Europa or you or something like that.
It's like a kind of like a neo Nazi propaganda.
A movie that came I think it's like six Hours,
came out a couple of years ago. It did a
lot of rounds in the alternative media space, right, and
like straight up the bed, I said, look, I'll keep
(47:14):
an open mind. I'll keep an open mind. Let's see,
there's a lot of stuff that I don't know as well.
But within the first twenty minutes, like I mean, there's
so like many blatantly inaccurate, like patently false things that
they're saying.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Okay, all right, thanks guys, So you need to do that.
Just because it's like you know, alternative and it's counter
narrative doesn't mean that it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So that's what people need to think about now when
it comes to movies and TV shows.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Look, by all means, enjoy yourself, no problem, but keep.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
In mind that you maybe, like you know, they may
be trying to put ideas in your head. Same thing
goes for your children, same thing goes for like you know,
like you know, the children.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
You can be whatever you want to be.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You can be if you're a girl and you don't
like it, you can be a boy.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
If your boy you don't like it, you can be
a girl. Whatever you want to be.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
It doesn't matter, right, all colors of the rainbow. So
people need to be aware of that. And if they
consume that, like you know, it's like it's like eating
eating junk food.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Right, When you eat junk food, you know it's bad
for you, right, so you can still eat it in moderation,
but you know it's bad for you.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Right, So as long as you understand that in most cases,
Hollywood definitely, definitely almost everything they put out, especially now
since like you know, since twenty twenty, everything they put
out now is to try and condition you to something
something right, one of the aspects of the globalist or
again the technocracy, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Right, as long as you understand that, you still want
to consume that, knock yourself.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Out by all means, but just be aware and don't
let the inception that they're trying to do to succeed.
And even worse, don't like, you know, think for a
second that maybe it is actually oh, it was actually
my idea.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I realized that by myself. Oh I'm not so smart.
I came to this realization by myself, But.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I understand when you're being played that that's the actable
thing that I would say from that.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yeah, absolutely understand when you're being played and understand that
narratives are being shaped and those narratives are shaping us.
So yeah, it's it's not always easy, and the easy
way out is to just be passive and go with
the flow. But I don't think that anyone who's reading
your work, or listening to you or watching this interview
(49:32):
is looking for the easy way out.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
So Michael, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
As I said, I would love to continue this conversation
and use more of these examples and have an interactive
discussion and involve our audiences. So maybe we can work
on that in the coming weeks.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Sure, I've got plenty more where that came from.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
I know you do. I know you do.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Before we let you go this hour, just remind people
how they can find you and follow your work and
more importantly, support your work.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Sure, so the best place to go is my website.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I'm no longer on substack, like I do post notes
from time to time, but if you actually want to
follow my work, go to my website, Actionable Truth dot Media.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
You can sign up there.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
There's also a lending page that you can sign up
if that's more convenient, So it's Sendfox dot com forward
such actionable truth, right, you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Can go there.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
You can also there's like a little bit of an
archive there and obviously there's a full archive on my website.
That way you will be across everything that I'm doing.
Like you know, as far as support, so my website
has two pay tiers. I have a private community that
has a free tier and two pay tiers as well.
I've got a merch store, so that's from the merch store,
(50:41):
so there's multiple ways that you can support my work.
I do not take sponsors. I do not take investors.
That is a non negotiable for me, right and obviously
limits to a loge extent my output and what I
can do. But for me, this is a non negotiable
for exactly the reasons that we've discussed today.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
And yeah, that's basically me.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Well, I'm so glad to have you on Collapse Life. Finally,
we've been following your work for a long time and
I hope that this is the first of many appearances.
Thanks for having me Sar, Thanks so much, and thanks
to everyone who's been watching for tuning in today. If
you are enjoying these conversations, please consider subscribing to Collapse
(51:23):
Life so you don't miss any upcoming interviews or live discussions.
We are building a community of people who are paying
attention not just to what's happening, but to how it's
being presented, framed, and understood, and thinking seriously about how
to navigate within that landscape. Head over to collapselife dot
com to join us by subscribing, and if you like
to support our work, you can do so more directly
(51:45):
by upgrading to a paid subscription or making a one
time contribution via the donate link at the top of
our homepage. Like Michael, we do not have any sponsors
or any investors. We are homegrown and we intend to
keep it that way. We will be back next week
with another the conversation, and until then, be sure to
pay attention to the stories stories you see around you
and the space around them, and don't forget to keep
(52:07):
your chin up. It's only collapse.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
See you soon.
Forget about legacy media, but you also have to be
very very discerning when you listen to supposedly alternative media.
And the key thing to understand, just like with legacy media,
it's exactly the same who is funding them?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Where's the money coming from? Like, who's funding them? Right?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
If they take money from like you know, people with
certain agendas, right, like you know, like the Wellness company
or certain people who want to push multipolarism and say that,
like you know, China are the good guys now or
maybe they're not the good guys or who knows what
you know?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hello and welcome. I'm Zara Setna and this is Collapse Life.
Please make sure you're subscribed to this channel to get
notifications about all our latest interviews. If the last decade
have taught us anything it's that the boundary between fiction
and reality is becoming increasingly blurred. From dystopian films to
viral Netflix shows. We often see ideas like digital currencies,
(00:51):
biometric ideas, and AI driven governance appear in fiction years
before they show up in policy discussions. So are these
works of fiction simply creative storytelling or are they part
of a broader ecosystem of narrative shaping and mind control.
Today we're joined by Michael Ginsburg. He's a contrarian thinker,
technologist and founder of Actionable Truth and independent media platform
(01:13):
in Australia. Michael, Welcome. We've still been looking forward to
speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, Zara, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It's great to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Just for those in our audience who aren't familiar with
you in your work, do you want to give a
really quick summary of your background?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, okay, So my background is in technology.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Did a lot of basically work my ti adult life
in technology, did a lot of roles including technology consulting,
worked for two of the big four consulting firms. So
really was like, you know, in the belly of the beast.
Before obviously I realized that there is a beast, so
so been around in that space for for a long time.
I had, I guess, an awakening, my own awakening moment
(01:55):
during COVID that kind of came quite late, came towards
the mid middle of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Uh And and.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Once I've had that, it's kind of like, you know,
one of the things that I found personally lacking for
me for my own personal needs was kind of like
a solution based uh, independent media.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So basically like instead of like.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You know, telling me, okay, well we're all going to
be a slave, We're all gonna be that, we're all
gonna die.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
See you next week. Okay, well what are we gonna do?
Like how can we stop this? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So that's kind of where the idea for my my
own platform came came from, because I just couldn't find content.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Uh that kind of served my my needs in that space.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And that's why it's called actionable truth, right, So I
always and to focus on on the actionable part and
obviously make sure that it is the truth. Uh. And
that's kind of kind of how I got into this space.
So when I guess, when I had when I started,
when I launched the platform, so I did a two
part series where I explained kind of my own personal
journey to awakening, right, Uh, two pretty pretty detailed articles
(02:54):
people can go and read.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It's the oldest ones on my website. Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And and the second part of that, right, I kind
of touched into a lot of I guess, the predictive programming,
the the the narrative management that has been happening really
for years like you know, decades in pretty much all
like you know, mass media be like you know, music,
big TV, big movies, like I mean, Hollywood is like
(03:22):
you know, d like you know, the top thing, the
top dog when it comes to that sort of stuff.
So I kind of like, you know, that was kind
of really my big realization that what it's been happening
has kind of been foretold for a very very long time,
and in quite a like in your face kind of way.
We just, I guess, until it actually happens in real life,
(03:43):
you don't realize that they've been telling you that this
is coming right and and very much in your face.
So yeah, that that's kind of I guess brings us
to the topic of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Perfect. First of all, I love your work.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I think it's great, and I do love the you
focus on solutions or that's that's at the heart of
why you started your platform, because even though Collapse Life
sounds a little bleak, that's also our motivation is to
help people understand what's going on, because you can be
more in control when you're actually aware of things, and
we always try to focus our conversations around what people
(04:19):
can do actionable steps that people can take. And it's
getting harder and harder to ask those questions in these
interviews because you know, we're in it now, and more
and more people are like, well, I'm not sure if
there's any more we can do. But funnily enough, on
a live stream just a couple of days ago, somebody
typed in a comment where they accused us of being
toxically optimistic.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So I don't know. I don't know if maybe people
are actually to.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Be optimistic, they're toxically optimistic than pessimistic. But the most
important thing is to also be a realist, right we
need to, And that's what I kind of try and
mentioned in a lot of the other interviews that I've
done on pretty much every topic.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It doesn't matter. I always comes to the same point.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
If we don't get our shit together right and actually
start doing what is necessary to stop the agenda, it's
not gonna stop. If all we're gonna do is just
like you know, pray and argue almost ourselves, then things
are not gonna change. And and and and like you know,
if if we think that things are pretty bad now,
we haven't seen nothing yet, right, so so we the
(05:22):
optimistic side is we can absolutely stop that, absolutely without
a shad over doubt. But we need to do the
right thing, and we need to do it now. The
window of opportunity is closing. And if we continue on
the path that we are on, and I'm talking about
we as India way, I'm not even talking about like
you know, the NORMI is that you know, the brain
(05:43):
a booster, forget about them. But if we continue with that,
with what we're doing, on the path that we are
on right now and fighting among ourselves over nonsense and
focusing on things that don't matter right now, things are
gonna be really bad and there is really no to
be optimistic about it.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So back to our topic at hand, in terms of
predictive programming, I wanted to have.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You maybe just define your view on what.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That is because a lot of people who may hear
that term may immediately start thinking, oh, here's a bunch
of conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And then the next thing that kind of popped up
in my mind, and they're sort of related, is once
you started seeing this pattern, do you ever look back
at sort of classic movies now and say, what were
they trying to tell us with the Wizard of Oz
or the Manchurian candidate so over to you.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah. So, so.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I'm not going to use like, you know, the the
the the dictionary definition anyone can look that up or
like you no, predictive programming. Here's here's one way, and
I'm gonna use like a movie to explain that, which
I think I think is kind of fits in our conversation.
Think about Inception, right, if any you want to see
the movie Inception. Predictive programming is inception, except of, like,
(07:05):
you know, it's not like people who like, you know,
hack your brain, Well, it's not yet, right and and
and literally forcefully plant an idea in your head and
make it make you believe that it is your own idea, right,
That's what happens in Inception.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's the kind of like, you know, present an idea.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
To you, right, and and and it's an idea that
is repeated, like the repetition is the key here, right,
So it's.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Repeated again and again and again in multiple.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Ways to multiple angles, right, to make you kind of like,
you know, uh, come around to the idea that this
is within the realm of possibility or maybe this is
even a good idea, or maybe this is a desired outcome.
I mean, like you know, simple example would be like
you know, the alien agenda, right, I mean that's been
going on since like in a world of the world,
(07:52):
and like, you know, I don't know when was that,
like you know, the thirties, the forties.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right, uh And and I mean that was that was
at the time. It wasn't even prettive programming.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It freaked people out when like you know, the actual
radio broadcast came out, Like people started running. They thought, like, literally,
we're being invaded for Mars, like you know for Mars,
and and obviously age you well's it's like, you know,
he's made you major globalist.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So they've been doing it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So I guess the best way for people to understand
I guess my take on predictive programming is think inception
without the guys.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
That like you know, go into your brain and.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Hack it, right, So just dropping hints, telling stories. That
is it to just prime us to normalize a thing
or is it to make us.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Look another way?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Because if we actually see something in real life that
we've seen in fiction, we may say I don't know.
That can't be real because I saw it in a
movie sometimes like or is it the opposite that, like
that must be real because I saw it in a movie.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah. So so there's two aspects of that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So for a long time I always thought that, like
I thought that like you know, uh uh, predictive programming
was the primary thing or sorry, it's the only thing, right,
And I still think it is the primary thing, right,
it is the primary thing. But there's another element once
I started like in researching, because the other side, like
(09:15):
not the enemy, like the real enemy as I like
to refer to them. They have their own belief system
religion if you want to call it, right, I mean,
uh uh, you know, if people want to, like, you know,
look more into that, i'd recommend like in the series
by Bill Cooper, Mystery of Babylon, where it goes to
like you know, that's where it really goes back as
far back as it goes. But one of the core
(09:38):
beliefs or dogmas that they have within their religion, and
we're talking about like really the all those oldest people,
like you know, the ones we've been doing it, you
know since the Dawn of Men is revelation of the method. Now,
what is the idea behind the revelation of the method?
There is like you know, from their perspective, there's a
deep spiritual religious aspe back to that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
And what what is the aspect they believe that there they.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Will be protected like they have they will have karma
protection or their karma will be they will be protected
from karma. Right if they indicate in advance what they
are planning to do right now. As their religion evolved
over the years, it wasn't it didn't like it evolved
(10:28):
from just being a nice thing to do or like
an important thing to do. It is mandatory, right, It's
It's as mandatory as like you know, Jews and Muslims
are not.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Allowed to eat pork. It is mandatory.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So you must tell your victim what you're gonna do
to them before you do it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
But you're allowed to use symbology. You're allowed to use
like you know, hints, you don't just.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Correct subliminal methoding, so you don't have to come out
and say straight away.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And then what happens. There's two options.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Either your victim understands what they're planning, what you're planning
to do, and stops you. If they don't understand or
understand but fail to stop you, well that's on them, right,
So they're protected because then they're fulfilled literally their religious obligation.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
To reveal the method.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So that's the other aspect that is very very important
for that and all the mass media, right, especially entertainment
industry in all its forms, but especially like you know,
TV and movies.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
This is what it's useful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Right, So I say, now, like you know that Hollywood,
the primary objective of Hollywood is not entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's not even to make money. The primary objective why Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Was created, the reason why it was created is to
fulfill that religious obligation.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Interesting, so by that definition, then and everything is predictive
in some form or conditioning in some form. Because if
if everything that's being produced in Hollywood is some form
of revelation of the method, then all stories that are
calming out are.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You being used for conditioning?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So yeah, okay, so here's the thing. So I said
the primary purpose, okay, would be only purpose?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It almost becomes a little bit more diabolical then, because
then it's up to you to decide which ones, which.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
One, which ones are not and.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Sorry, go ahead, yet just one thing.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
So when you mentioned revelation of the method, I was thinking, suddenly,
on social media, I'm seeing a lot of videos and
they're across YouTube and they're years old, but suddenly I'm
seeing them. These so called magicians or lists or you know,
(13:02):
really like master influencers doing these videos where they show
people how you can be subliminally influenced. So we just
saw one recently with Ben Stiller and he's playing basketball
and the person he's playing with is asking him a
bunch of questions and then they have these cards on
(13:22):
the court and when they flip them over, it's all
the answers that he gave off the top of his head.
There's another one where they're bringing a woman through a
toy store in London and then they ask her a
bunch of questions and they show then how there were
all these things along the way from the minute she
(13:43):
walked into that store that conditioned her or primed her
to give the answers that she gave, which was, you know,
giraffe and the number sixty one or whatever. I'm making
this up, but these are all videos that show and
when you watch them, you go you're Oh my goodness,
look at that. Look how that subliminally influenced. But they're
(14:03):
telling you how it's done in a way.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
What we need to understand, right, So there's two aspects
of it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
The first aspect is definitely predictive programming, like they have
to normalize like certain things that are about to happen
because they know that they're about to happen. So it's
like you know, shifting the overturned window, right, But.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That's another thing.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So that's the more I guess the primary reason because
I guess not everyone on the other side has the
same religion or belief system. Like, no, they're not all Satanists,
they're not all Masons. There's definitely all those people there,
but they're not all the same. And there's some people who,
like you know, they don't they don't have any belief
system or like you know, or any religion. They're just
(14:42):
like you know, opportunists, right, Like they're like you know,
low level operators, Like I mean, I doubt that, like
you know, Bill Gates, right, has any like you know,
religious views on anything or any spirituality whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Right, So, so so.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
What we need to understand that, like you know, the
most important thing is definitely predictive to programming to move
the overturned window. But there's other people, like I guess,
the more higher levels, the ones that you know, you
don't know their names, the ones that you don't talk
about like you know every day, the ones who've been
added for a long time. You know, there's different names.
People use black nobility for that. Some people it doesn't
(15:18):
really matter, right, They actually do have a belief system
and they use all this mechanisms that they've created over
like you know years centurism, and you can go as
far back you you can say that, like you know,
the first attempt to do that was the printing press,
right to basically create this to fulfill this religious obligation
(15:40):
that they have to protect their own comma from la
you know, from you know, uh, getting punished for what
they've done or what they're about to do or they
plan to do what they want to do, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So so.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that
this thing is been going on for a long time.
But with the advancement of technology, right mass media, the internet,
they can reach a lot more people, right, and for them,
this is this is a lot more important because they
can influence the entirety of society, the entirety of body
(16:19):
politics a lot quicker. Right, time, time does matter, right,
That's what I'm saying, Like, I mean, it's not just
that we need to do the right thing, we need
to do the right thing on time before like you know,
the window of opportunity closes and we're all in the
digital Google again, it doesn't really matter what we do
or what we think, or do we like each other
or not?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Right, So that that's kind of where where I'm going
with that.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, you mentioned the term overton windows. So just for
anyone who's watching who doesn't know what that is or
isn't familiar with the concept, do you want to just
quickly explain your perspective of it.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, so I guess, I guess again, I'm not going
to use any Addictionary definitions.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
But the idea of the overturne window.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Is you make an idea before that was unacceptable or
unthinkable even to something that is kind of normalized.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, so now, like you know, we we can discuss
like you know, anything, like you know, starting from like
you know, virus no virus. The Nazis were bad, the
Nazis were good, like you know, communism, Like now that
there's a thing that's really started on Twitter since really
late last year, all about like and I'm about to
(17:27):
publish an article about it, all about multipularity, and all
of a sudden, like these accounts popped out of nowhere
where they basically present China.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
As the model.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, look, everyone is friendly, the sweets are clean, they're
like advanced, they're more advanced by decades. They have these
amazing trains, and they have these amazing robots, and they
have this technology.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
They're living in twenty fifty okay, right, and then then
claud Shwarp says, yeah, China is the model.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So this is obviously another attempt to switch the overtone window.
And some of them like they literally say it in
your face, like they say, well, if them is so bad,
fine I saw advanced or streets are so clean?
Speaker 5 (18:13):
What?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, I've seen those videos over the window.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Absolutely, it's a perfect example.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I've seen those videos as well, and I've also been
thinking about writing an article about it. But yes, all
of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's influencers, both the
kinds of influencers that you and I might watch, and
others who a whole different audience might watch, and they're
all parroting the exact same line, exactly the same thing.
(18:42):
Look at these high speed trains. What if we had
high spreed trains like this in North America or in Europe?
Or look how clean everything is. There's social credit score. No,
not really, it's certainly not national.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It's a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Right, yeah, very very interesting that that's happening. And it's
happening all of a sudden, all at once, like you know,
all almost coordinated.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And because it's social media, you don't even know like
whether these accounts are even human, right, I mean, you
have no idea, like you spoken out of nowhere, have
like hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter, you don't again,
you don't know how many of those followers are real.
So like you can create that like in two seconds,
I can tell you, like you know, as a tech guy,
I mean, you can create those accounts like you know,
by the bucket loads. Put each of them with three
million followers. You willn't know anything any better, right, and
(19:34):
they've been created literally two hours ago, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, I think it might be fun maybe to use
some other recent examples that people might be aware of
or might not be in and might go back and look,
But what are some things that, now that you have
this kind of awareness, what are some things that you've
seen on TV or in movies or even in AD
campaigns that really stuck out to you as being perfect Actually.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That campaigns, I actually have something like that, really really
good about it. And that's related directly to the age
verification legislation that kicked it in Australia December last year.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
December ten, Australia was the first.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Obviously, since then it has happened pretty much everywhere else.
And and I guess, so this is an ad right
that was released by the Each Safety Commissioner, which is like,
you know, the the government agency that enforces this age
verification mandates in Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And and I guess before I played.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
The interesting thing about it is how similar the talking
points are to what was used during COVID.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But during COVID it was like you know, protect the NHS,
protect grammar, protect the vulnerable in our society. Here it's
protect the children, right, and you know, for the better,
like you know, for for for the common good, right.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
For the good of Kirsty, for the good of Lucy
and Anya, for the good of Sam, for the good
of Holly, for the good of Noah, for the good
of their well being. From December ten, people under the
(21:25):
age of sixteen will no longer have access to social
media accounts. It's part of a new law to help
keep under sixteen safer online. For more details and to
help you prepare, go to e safety dot gov dot
au authorized by the Istralan government.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Camera you understand how it's done. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So Michael, if you oppose age verification on social media,
you obviously hate Kirsty.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
You could exactly what.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Exactly I want to expose your children to, like, you know,
predators and pedophiles, right that that's hey, because how can
you appoll protecting the children, right?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How can you oppose to protecting the inn they chance?
How can you oppost to protecting Grandma? I mean, come on,
what kind of a human are you? Right? So you
know what I mean? So this is not I mean,
this is an extreme example.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
This is not really predictive programming, because the idea with
predictive program is to do it over time, and you know,
shifting the overturn window is a process that takes a
long time. But this is like boom in your face.
It's just like before that you thought, oh this is unacceptable,
and I think, oh, well, you know, maybe maybe that's
the right thing to do. But they just want to
make that shift in one go because this is important.
(22:34):
They need to introduce it now. It's being introduced in
two weeks, and they need they need buying from the
people instead of pushback.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So they're gonna go boom, They're gonna.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Go hard, and they're giving people almost ammunition for anyone
who opposes it. You know, if you're riding on a
bus and you hear someone say it, you could say, well,
obviously we need to do this.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
We need to protect the children.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It's bad for children, it's dangerous, and don't you care
about childre It puts puts it into the perfect frame,
and it's just easily delivered into their hands. Yeah, so
it's not predictive programming. It's emotional manipulation. But they run
across the same spectrum.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And I guess a very extreme example and that was,
I mean something that really contributed all to my own
personal awakening. So that's why I like mentioning it is
the Freedom Convoy in Canada, right, oh you know Trudeau,
and obviously he's like, you know, he's just a puppet.
But Freeland was really running the show Christia Freeland, right,
I mean, they presented those people as neo Nazis, an
(23:34):
extreme ride far right, and like you know, they want
to overthrow the government. They want to like you know,
create a fascist dictatorship something like that. And okay, well
there's like Indian people there, and there's like you know, Muslims,
and there's like people of all walks of life.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You see like you know, you see a sea guy
with a turban. I'm far right, okay, you know you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
It's cosy castles and hot cocoa.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I mean, it's not exactly what you picture when you
picture a fascist far right movement exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And they needed to do it fast why because the
trackers were there, they were already in the capitol, and
it was gaining traction.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And obviously people realized, hey, this is like this is serious.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And especially when like you know, this very heavy handed
response from the government came, people even like complete like
you know, normally.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Is like realizy this.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This is the point where I definitely realized that something
else was going on, right, so they needed.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
To act fast. So this is I guess. I guess.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I don't know if that's a good example, because that's
a very in your face, not like you know, that's
not shifting the overturned window gradually, but like dragging it,
kicking and screaming in two seconds.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, and you recognize it now because you're more sensitive
I think, to reading under the subtext or reading under
under the surface and reading the subject and knowing why
things are being framed in a certain way. But it
hits you like a punch in the face, and others
may just go yeah, of course, course, of.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Course, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So I guess a more refined example, and I mean
I can provide a lot, but a more I guess
gradual example of or I guess predictive programming will be.
I would refer to that as predictive programming. I'm not
gonna take too much.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I don't know. If you've seen the show.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Before, do you want to know what happens next?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It was released on Amazon at the beginning of twenty twenty.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
Your father created a world changing, not world ending, A
world changing, world improving omnivirus, right, and we have taken
that virus and embedded in the vaccine of the S
TURNS flu.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So I don't know if you've seen that before. I
don't know if the audience have seen that before, but
I mean.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
No, you got me on that one. Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah. So that's a show. It's Amazon original. It's called You.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I believe it was made in twenty nineteen, but was
released in early twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
M not marking D.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Except I guess to say that that narrative of like
you know that the population, infertility, population collapse and all
that sort of stuff, it's not actually that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
New at all. Right, So if you want another example
of the same thing, but.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I want to let me pause you on this one
for one second because it brings up a thought for me.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
So the guy is there, he's.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Telling this group of people about this thing that they've done.
They're horrified. They obviously don't think that what he's telling
them is a good thing.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So he's portrayed as the bad guy.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
So if you're watching this in twenty nineteen, before the pandemic,
let's say you're going to relate more to the people
in the room, not the guy sitting on the cap
telling about this evil plot.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So how how does that work psychologically?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Because then when it really does happen in real life,
all those people standing in the room are.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
The same people who are like, oh, we all got
to go get.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Our shots because we got to you know, protect our community.
So how does that switch happen that the very same
people who are watching this show on Netflix would be horrified,
but when it happens in real life they roll up
their arms.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Excellent question. Excellent question. So, the way I think about it,
two things.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think the primary purpose of this particular show is
revelation of the method for this is to provide the
luck you know, the comic protection. Right that that is
definitely the primary purpose of that, and not a prominent
example I think for revelation of them or where that's
the primary purpose is the Matrix series, especially the first one, right,
(28:05):
So so that that that is the primary thing.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
The secondary thing, I guess is to kind of like
you know.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Think that like you know, not shift the overturn window,
but kind of to indicate to people that there are
some people who think that, like you know, human reproduction
is bad like you know, humans, humans are a disease.
They are like a plague on the earth, right, So
that that's kind of like you know, where people don't
necessarily have to agree with that, But the way it
works is like repetition, right, repetition, repetition, repetition, And even
(28:37):
if you don't agree with the idea, it starts kind
of like entering your head.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So this is like inception. The whole idea with inception
is like you know, I mean if if you've seen the.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Movie, it's not to like put ideas in the guy's
head that he's like you know, is agreeing with it,
is to put ideas in his head that are against it,
like you know, best interest, but he make it think
that it was his ideas right, right, So I put
an idea in your head, but you don't realize that,
like you know, someone hacked your.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Brain and put an idea in your in your head.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You think, oh, I came up with that, but you're
okay with it because it was your idea, right, But
that that's.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
You rationalize yourself around it, even if you start to think, oh,
maybe I was wrong, maybe I'm made a mistake.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
You you we have.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
This amazing ability, unbelievable ability to be able to rationalize
things and go no, no, no, no. I needed to do
this because of that. And therefore and there you know,
and you you you make yourself very quickly comfortable with
the decision that you made, because it's easier than going
back and admitting that you were wrong necessarily exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And I'm not gonna play that. But I mean, this
is from a movie. Right.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
There is this famous interview with Dennis Meadows, right, one
of the founders of the Club of Rome, right, where
he says that like, you know, I mean, are humans,
like you know, a lock will need to die, like
you know, if we do you're bright.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Like maybe a million will die, you know, or like
I want to do it in a peaceful.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Way, like you know, not violent, but like I want
I want it to happen without violence, but I want
most of you to die. Like he says that it
is not a movie, this is a real interview. Yes, right,
So this is not like an idea, So this is
a movie. Okay, people, Oh this is just an Amazon movie.
But there's a guy and this is not just some guy, right,
I mean, this is the guy who like on a
(30:23):
co author The Limits to Growth, Right, I mean this
is this is a major like you know, globalist like
you no thinker, right on the level of I don't know,
you've a right, maybe even more so.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
He's telling you to your face this is like, you know,
there's too many of you. We need to do something.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, right, yeah, So this is.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
This is I mean, you can say this is shifting
the overturn we do, but it's primarily like you know,
say like, look we can, We're gonna do this.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And so the one that you just showed, Utopia, I
haven't seen it, but even just from that short clip
that you just played, it seems pretty clearly written in
terms of the sort of black and white narrative that
most people can understand when they're passively watching TV. There's
(31:10):
another example that both you and I wrote about on
our respective platforms called Years and Years, which is a
multi part series that also came out I think in
twenty nineteen. I typically don't watch these things ever, or
certainly not at the time that they come out, so
this one came to me a couple of years later.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
But I remember.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
One scene that I had seen a clip of around
the time it came out where there's a young woman
who wants to have a conversation with her parents. She
just so has be biracial, which is just another this series.
We'll talk about it. It's so much more subtle than
the Utopia. There's so many things going on. Some of
(31:59):
them are in your face, some of them are really subtle.
So this young biracial teenage girl wants to have an
uncomfortable conversation with her parents. The parents are preparing themselves
for it, and they think that she's going to come
out and say she's gay, and they're okay with that,
and we love you and we still accept you, okay. Yeah,
(32:21):
And it turns out she doesn't want to. She just
doesn't want to be human anymore. She's she wants to
become transhuman.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, if you want, I can play that or we
can do okay, all right.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
I'm not comfortable with my body, so I want to
get rid of it, this thing, or the arms and
legs and every single bit of it. I don't want
to be flesh. I'm really sorry, but I'm going to
escape this thing have become digital.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, and I mean this is this is definitely not
so much revelation of the method, but definitely more on
the predictive programming shifting the overturn window thing, because I
know that people are aware of that, but like getting
rid of like you know, the flesh, like you know
the human body, Like that's that's a real thing, right,
(33:12):
and that's in transhumanism, like for real, this is like
the endgame, Like this is the utopia. And there's a
name for that. They have a name for it. It's
called this embodiment. The reason why it is the utopia.
There's a few people. I think there's I think a
lady by the name of maybe Jennifer Bilek.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think she wrote about it.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
She's that she's been on clubs Life. Yeah, she's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So she she wrote extensively about like explaining like it
is a proper idea, like they genuinely believe in that,
like you know Ari's book Homodure, Like you know a
man who is like gold. Why why are they like gold?
Because they never die? They live in the cloud. This embodiment,
it's a real thing, right. I Mean you can also
(33:59):
say that transgender agenda tizing to that, because once you
get rid of like you know, the differences between a
man and a woman, and you don't know what a
man and a woman and just.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Thirty genders will then just get rid of the whole
thing together. The body doesn't matter, will make babies and testubes.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
The other little hint that they dropped there is one
day there'll be clinics in Switzerland where you can do this. Well,
today there already are clinics in Switzerland for a different purpose,
for euthanasia. And that's another topic that has now become
squarely in the Overton window. We can talk about it,
(34:36):
and in fact, opposing it in many countries is again
you know, you're considered heartless and.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Stuck in the past.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
If you think that people shouldn't be able to choose
to have medically assisted dying. So that really kind of
leap frogs because as you watch that, if you put
yourself back into twenty nineteen, before we started having all
of these conversations, if you put yourself in twenty nineteen,
you would watch that there was a little bit of
(35:06):
futurism in there where she has this filter that she
can switch on in real life, not just on her
phone app, but the viewer very much identifies with the
parents who are just trying to keep up and be
compassionate and am I using the right words here?
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And I still love you?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And you know you really feel for the parent who
is just struggling to cope and be a good person
in this And this is I think in just the
early episodes of this series, which goes along and it
waxy with so many different narratives at once, bank rushes, populism,
(35:46):
the migrant issue, gay marriage.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Disabilities. I mean, it's just right, you can make a list.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, So, I mean that's why I said I think
I said in my post and I still believe that
so so years and Years is an extreme example.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's kind of like the matrix. Right.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Years and Years is an extreme example because it is
not just predictive programming or revelation of the method.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It is an.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Actual program of work that has been dramatized. So basically,
you take a document from the Rockefeller Foundation, right, assign
it in like roles, put actors, put a director, put
a writer. In this case, his name is Russell T. Davis, Right,
the same guy who's like behind doctor who just for
so people understand, right, and basically presented because nobody's going
(36:39):
to read a document, right, they're not going to fulfill
their obligation, right, and they're not going to normalize that
by someone reading like a dry like a report, fifty
page report from the Rockefeller Foundation, right, so they dramatize
it to you. They tell you, ind they tell you
exactly what they're gonna do. They tell you that in
the order that is going to happen, like literally the
(37:00):
six episodes, and you can tell like you know exactly
what's happening in each episode, right the UK. Literally right now,
they are towards the end of episode two and the
start of episode three, and I can I can show
you look what's happening, what's happening at the beginning of
episode three if you want, m all right, let's do that.
Tensions are high, with the major parties keeping an eye
(37:22):
on the full style parties.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Wild can't vote.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I think it might be a little bit tipsy.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
I haven't even voted yet. I'll be squiffy. I'll probably
take the wrong box.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
This is British wine for British people, and what it.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Deserves is tax breaks and subsidized transports.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
You can't raise taxes.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I'll impose a tariff on wines from abroad. Let them
pay false facts every day?
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Do you know where you can find the truth?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Right here? Fast start channel. God help us. We're the
only ones.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
God help us indeed now So I mean, I don't know,
some people really need things to be spelled out for
them because they just don't get it right. So four
Star Party right could be any I mean, initially I
thought it was reformed. Reform is obviously self destructing, right,
(38:18):
so it's obviously like I mean farage and all that,
that's a farce right any any Like, I mean I
think most people were like, we're even planning to vote
for them, They're kind of move on from that, right.
It's basically a Torris Live or Toys b or whatever.
So now you have this new pair, both of them
heavily supported by Elon Mask right also supported the AfD
(38:39):
party in Germany, so you.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Have uh uh.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Restore Britain right, and the other one was Ben Habib,
so basically he has Initially it was.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I thought that he would be like the leading role,
but it's obviously now like you know, Rupert Law right
the head Restore Britain. That's viv, Yeah, that is viv.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
If you guys don't get it, now she has her
own TV station. Now Rupert doesn't have his own TV station,
but the people who run him, right, which is an
entity called Legatum. Right, if people want to look into that,
I've done a pretty a detailed interview on the Dogmatic
podcast together with my colleague Ursula Agington, who's like, really,
she's the expert on Legatum, Like I mean, I would
(39:26):
say she's the world authority on the topic. Right, And
people can go and check this out and understand what
this entity is. Hm. They have this thing, this TV
channel that all of a sudden emerged as a pandemic
started called GIBB News.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Right, that's the four style live, right.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I need to do it because I realized that people
don't get it, Like even if it's like relatantly obvious
in your face, people don't get it. Now, just to
finish that point, so you know how in Utopia, right,
this guy said people are upset by they need to
know what happens next? Would you like to know what
happens next? Again for the benefit of people? Again from
(40:05):
like you know, years and years, but that's I believe
episode four. So do you want to know what happens next?
Let me show you what happens next.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
As twenty twenty nine begins, the charter for the British
Broadcasting Corporation has been withdrawn.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
The BBC is now closed.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
Sage, thank you, good night and good luck.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
A journalist has been from Journey Street. After challenging the
Prime Minister.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
It said that Russia have been funding the Four Star Party.
Great news every time records of sexual harassment within four
Star headquarters. Packie is heavily implied that the voting was raised.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
You are the enemy of the people.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Is there are questions about your income tax retires.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
This is why journalism is dying.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
Missus Rucas also a million pounds to the fight against
monkey flu.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
The epidemic continues to rage or an estimated one thy
two hundred dead.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So this is this is an extreme example.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
This is this is this is serious, like someone has
obviously put a lot of effort into that.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay, this is this is and obviously the hired like
you know, uh huh, like.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
A happy hitter in like you know, in British television.
I mean, like I'll just read briefly is bio on IMDb.
So that's that's the writer Russell T. Davis, often described
as a genius.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Russell T.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
David is one of the leading British television writers of
his generation, who specializes in emotional drama, frequently with gay
and sex related adult themes. After graduating from Oxford University,
initially took a BBC Television's director course in the nineteen
eighties and briefly moved in front of the camera to
present a single episode of the BBC version of Play
(41:45):
School in nineteen eighty seven, before deciding his abilities laying
production rather than presenting blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Right, So that's Thompson and the Thompson is no small
potatoes either exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
And and I think I don't know her name.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I just I could probably look it up, but uh,
the grandma, like you know, the old lady there. I
think she's she's a pretty heavy hitter in British television
as well. Uh so, yeah, I mean this is only
only only six episodes because they tell you like fast,
like you know, Foster threat, what they're gonna do. And
I'm not gonna like it. I'm not gonna mention what
(42:20):
happens on episode six. People are gonna can go and
watch for themselves. But this is a program of work.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
This is not just predictive programming.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
They they brought a white paper to life in this
six episode series, and people really do need to watch it.
Watch it on instead of on double speed, which we
watch most videos faster. You need to slow this one
down and analyze every scene and what's happening and as
you said, the little details, the little subliminal notes, because
(42:50):
there is so much packed into these six episodes, and
people like me didn't even know what was happening because
I don't really watch this stuff. But you're right, it
tells us exactly what has already happened, what's happening now,
and what's going to happen in the very near future.
We could keep going on, and I would love to say, Michael,
(43:12):
that we should do this as a live stream so
that we can have an interactive discussion one day soon.
But I think we're coming to the close of an hour,
and since we mentioned already that your solutions oriented, I
wanted to turn as we start to close towards some
discussion about what people can do. Are there signals that
(43:35):
people can look for when they're seeing narratives, whether they're
in fiction or in ad campaigns or in the news,
the so called news.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
What signals can people be looking for to.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Indicate that they're being conditioned towards accepting something?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, look, I mean within you it's pretty simple, right,
just don't watch it, right, simple as that, just lack
legacy media.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
I do have you mentioned also doing this context that
Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than that, right, I
thought it would just forget about legacy media, look for
independent media, and everything is anky, Dori. Unfortunately that's not
the case. That is that is certain without a shread
over doubt. So uh, I think I think you had
you had David Hues on your show a couple of
weeks ago, and he has this framework of like you
(44:20):
know the three camps, right, so camp one, Camp two,
Camp three. So Camp one is obviously legacy media. Camp
two is you know, what we call the mainstream alternative media,
or like you know the big names in this space,
which are basically exactly the same like legacy media. Right,
they're like literally in many cases funded by the same people. Right,
I mean a lot of the platforms that are supposedly
(44:41):
alternative media are funded by the same people. Primary examples
for that would be Rumble in substack. Rumbo has the
same corporate shareholder. Rumble is a publicly listed company. Now
they have exactly the same shareholders as Alphabet, exactly the
same people, go and look it up, right, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
The same owners. It's like pepsinco. Right. Subseack is a
bit more complicated.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I've done a lot of like you know, discussions about that,
and people can go and have a look.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I've got an article on my website as well.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So you need to understand forget about legacy media, but
you also have to be very very discerning when you
listen to supposedly alternative media. And the key thing to understand,
just like with legacy media, it's exactly the same who
is funding them?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Where's the money coming from? Like who's funding them? Right?
Speaker 1 (45:25):
If they take money from like you know, people with
certain agendas, right, like you know, like the Wellness company
for certain people who want to push multipolarism and say
that like you know, trying are the good guys now
or maybe they're not?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Are the good guys? Or who knows what you know?
So so people need to be very very legacy media
forget about it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
But I would say, you need to be as equally
discerning when you listen to alternative media, and you always
need to look at, Okay, who is funding them, because
that's where the truth lies. Right when they say they
are independent, are they really if they have advertisers? Okay,
who First of all, by definition they're not one percent dependent,
(46:05):
and then look at.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Who their advertisers are. Right. If the advertisers are.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
The wellness company, well, I don't know, maybe, like look
at what the wellness company is.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
And there's a lot of material about that, right, uh
so you need to look at that. Right if they
have investors, which is.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
A little bit more complicated to discern because obviously they're
not going to be talking about them on air, there's
also another thing that is important for people to understand.
So ultimately, look, ultimately everything boils down the ultimate solution.
You have to think for yourself and you have to
check what people are telling you because they may be lying,
(46:41):
and maybe they may be lying even unintentionally, unwillingly, maybe
even unknowingly.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
But you have to go and verify things for yourself.
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Right, there's a there's a there's a there's a documentary, right,
I think it's called Europa or you or something like that.
It's like a kind of like a neo Nazi propaganda.
A movie that came I think it's like six Hours,
came out a couple of years ago. It did a
lot of rounds in the alternative media space, right, and
like straight up the bed, I said, look, I'll keep
(47:14):
an open mind. I'll keep an open mind. Let's see,
there's a lot of stuff that I don't know as well.
But within the first twenty minutes, like I mean, there's
so like many blatantly inaccurate, like patently false things that
they're saying.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Okay, all right, thanks guys, So you need to do that.
Just because it's like you know, alternative and it's counter
narrative doesn't mean that it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So that's what people need to think about now when
it comes to movies and TV shows.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Look, by all means, enjoy yourself, no problem, but keep.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
In mind that you maybe, like you know, they may
be trying to put ideas in your head. Same thing
goes for your children, same thing goes for like you know,
like you know, the children.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
You can be whatever you want to be.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You can be if you're a girl and you don't
like it, you can be a boy.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
If your boy you don't like it, you can be
a girl. Whatever you want to be.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
It doesn't matter, right, all colors of the rainbow. So
people need to be aware of that. And if they
consume that, like you know, it's like it's like eating
eating junk food.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Right, When you eat junk food, you know it's bad
for you, right, so you can still eat it in moderation,
but you know it's bad for you.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Right, So as long as you understand that in most cases,
Hollywood definitely, definitely almost everything they put out, especially now
since like you know, since twenty twenty, everything they put
out now is to try and condition you to something
something right, one of the aspects of the globalist or
again the technocracy, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Right, as long as you understand that, you still want
to consume that, knock yourself.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Out by all means, but just be aware and don't
let the inception that they're trying to do to succeed.
And even worse, don't like, you know, think for a
second that maybe it is actually oh, it was actually
my idea.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I realized that by myself. Oh I'm not so smart.
I came to this realization by myself, But.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I understand when you're being played that that's the actable
thing that I would say from that.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yeah, absolutely understand when you're being played and understand that
narratives are being shaped and those narratives are shaping us.
So yeah, it's it's not always easy, and the easy
way out is to just be passive and go with
the flow. But I don't think that anyone who's reading
your work, or listening to you or watching this interview
(49:32):
is looking for the easy way out.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
So Michael, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
As I said, I would love to continue this conversation
and use more of these examples and have an interactive
discussion and involve our audiences. So maybe we can work
on that in the coming weeks.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Sure, I've got plenty more where that came from.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
I know you do. I know you do.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Before we let you go this hour, just remind people
how they can find you and follow your work and
more importantly, support your work.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Sure, so the best place to go is my website.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I'm no longer on substack, like I do post notes
from time to time, but if you actually want to
follow my work, go to my website, Actionable Truth dot Media.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
You can sign up there.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
There's also a lending page that you can sign up
if that's more convenient, So it's Sendfox dot com forward
such actionable truth, right, you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Can go there.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
You can also there's like a little bit of an
archive there and obviously there's a full archive on my website.
That way you will be across everything that I'm doing.
Like you know, as far as support, so my website
has two pay tiers. I have a private community that
has a free tier and two pay tiers as well.
I've got a merch store, so that's from the merch store,
(50:41):
so there's multiple ways that you can support my work.
I do not take sponsors. I do not take investors.
That is a non negotiable for me, right and obviously
limits to a loge extent my output and what I
can do. But for me, this is a non negotiable
for exactly the reasons that we've discussed today.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
And yeah, that's basically me.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Well, I'm so glad to have you on Collapse Life. Finally,
we've been following your work for a long time and
I hope that this is the first of many appearances.
Thanks for having me Sar, Thanks so much, and thanks
to everyone who's been watching for tuning in today. If
you are enjoying these conversations, please consider subscribing to Collapse
(51:23):
Life so you don't miss any upcoming interviews or live discussions.
We are building a community of people who are paying
attention not just to what's happening, but to how it's
being presented, framed, and understood, and thinking seriously about how
to navigate within that landscape. Head over to collapselife dot
com to join us by subscribing, and if you like
to support our work, you can do so more directly
(51:45):
by upgrading to a paid subscription or making a one
time contribution via the donate link at the top of
our homepage. Like Michael, we do not have any sponsors
or any investors. We are homegrown and we intend to
keep it that way. We will be back next week
with another the conversation, and until then, be sure to
pay attention to the stories stories you see around you
and the space around them, and don't forget to keep
(52:07):
your chin up. It's only collapse.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
See you soon.
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