June 27, 2025 • 27 mins
In this conversation with Leah Dempsey, Shareholder at Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck, Washington's regulatory landscape is undergoing seismic shifts that credit unions can't ignore. The CFPB under Acting Director Mark Calabria has transitioned from addressing Biden-era regulatory holdovers to implementing proactive policy changes that could benefit the credit union industry. This includes potential revisions to decade-old mortgage rules and modifications to the controversial public complaint database that has long frustrated financial institutions.
Meanwhile, the reconciliation process faces significant hurdles as the Senate parliamentarian recently struck down several key provisions championed by Banking Committee Chairman Tim Scott, including an attempt to zero out CFPB funding. With a July 4th deadline looming, lawmakers face intense pressure to complete the package despite these setbacks and emerging geopolitical concerns in the Middle East potentially shifting priorities.
Most significantly for mortgage lenders, the Supreme Court's recent Hobbs Act ruling threatens to upend established compliance frameworks for member communications and lending programs. Like last year's landmark Loepper decision that ended Chevron deference, courts may give less weight to interpretations from agencies like the FCC, HUD, and USDA. For credit unions navigating the complex TCPA requirements or offering government-backed mortgage programs, this could create a challenging patchwork of judicial interpretations that vary by jurisdiction.
While Congress's immediate focus remains on reconciliation and stablecoin legislation, the second half of 2023 promises deeper engagement on housing and consumer finance issues more directly relevant to credit unions. These developments underscore the critical importance of staying informed and engaged with regulatory changes that will shape mortgage lending operations for years to come.
Sponsored by Loan Vision
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of ACUMA, its board of directors, its management staff or its
members.
The podcast discussionpresented is conversational in
nature and for generalinformation only.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to Act as On Point podcast, the
policy series where we focus onpolicy issues impacting the
credit union mortgage industry.
I'm your host, peter Benjamin.
Before we go to our episode,just a quick word from our
sponsor Before we go to ourepisode just a quick word from
our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This episode is being brought to you by Loan Vision.
Is your credit union looking toturn your accounting department
into a profit driver?
Loan Vision can helpno-transcript Transform your
(01:09):
cost centers into revenuegenerators by equipping your
team with the tools needed tobetter serve your members.
And don't miss our monthlywebinar series, where we share
key strategies and bestpractices to help credit unions
optimize their mortgageoperations Register today at
(01:36):
wwwloanvisioncom under ourupcoming events page.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's a little bit earlier here, but I've been up
since like 5 am and it's a sunny, nice day here, so everything's
going well.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean I'm sure it's probably a little bit cooler
than it is here in the DC area,Temperatures are rising.
What's going to be close to 100degrees today, you know.
I think that's a good segue anda good almost analogy for the
climate that's happening in DCright now, for the climate
that's happening in DC right now.
So, to that point, let's diveinto the latest and greatest
(02:10):
that's happening in Washington.
We have three great topicstoday.
We have the CFPB, we have thereconciliation and we have the
Hobbs Act, which we're going toexpand on, and this has been a
topic that we talked about inthe past in a different form,
but we're going to dive into ita bit more.
(02:31):
I think there's some things thathappened in the past week that
you're going to expand on.
The attorney in you is going tomost certainly dive into it for
us.
But let's start with the CFPB.
What is happening with the CFPB?
Cfpb what is happening with theCFPB?
We'll call it the.
I don't know if we want to callit the saga or the soap opera
(02:52):
with the CFPB.
I think they both play well.
But what's happening with theCFPB?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, yeah, I mean, it's a busy time over there and
we've obviously been followingsince beginning of the year when
there's been lawsuits aboutchanging the size of the staff,
there was a nominee that waspulled Jonathan McKernan.
But you know, despite a lot offlurry of activity and different
(03:19):
kind of changes happeningthrough litigation and other
avenues, they've kind of, Ithink, settled into some
policymaking finally and they'vebeen active, I think, in a very
productive way for creditunions.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And happy to talk a little bit more about that.
No, let's dive into that a bitBecause I think you know,
obviously, you, obviously theCFPB is, for all intents and
purposes, outside of the a bit.
(04:02):
You know most credit unionsalmost fear that point in time
when they kind of break overthat.
You know that $10 billiondeposit threshold.
You know they start ramping upstaff, they start really
(04:23):
doubling down on compliance.
They start ramping up staff,they start really doubling down
on compliance.
They start questioning orasking a lot of questions from
other credit unions or peergroups about what it's like
being under the CPB's purview.
Now, does that change, now thatwe're in this new era of CPB
oversight or makeup of the CPBin this new administration?
(04:44):
I don't necessarily know if Ican call it new administration
anymore, since we're halfwaythrough the first year, but I
think it's important for us todive in a bit more because it
does impact credit unionssignificantly.
So if you could, let's dive ina bit.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Sure.
Well, that's a great point anda great question.
Some of what we've seen earlyon in the CFPB, when Mark
Calabria and his team kind oftook over as detailees from the
OMB, is, you know, first reallyaddressing a lot of the
rulemakings and lawsuits thatwere kind of an overhang from
the Biden administration.
(05:18):
They've pretty much gonethrough that list.
For the most part They'veaddressed credit card late fees.
They addressed overdraft.
They are in the middle oflitigation addressing the
medical debt credit reportingpiece that we've talked about
many times on the podcast.
And now at this point we'restarting to see some proactive
(05:39):
policymaking.
We have seen multiple thingsnoticed in the Federal Register
in recent weeks.
They submitted to OIRA forreview some of the mortgage
rules and we're not 100% surewhat that's going to entail yet,
but it seems to indicate thatthe CPB is moving towards
(06:01):
reopening and reexamining someof the regulations from the past
decade.
Plus the mortgage rules, asmost listeners on this podcast
know, were some of the firstrules that the CFPB worked on.
Some of that was because theystatutorily had timelines where
they had to.
So I very much expect that overthe next several months we're
(06:24):
going to continue to see changesand deregulatory efforts.
The CBP is also, I believe,going to be looking at things
like the complaint database.
They mentioned that in theirwithdrawal of the guidance
pieces that they were going towithdraw, the consumer
narratives related to thecomplaint database and
(06:44):
potentially the fact that it'spublic.
In general For credit unions,the complaints at NCUA are
received by the agency but notmade publicly available works
(07:08):
well in identifying bad actors,without having the many problems
that are associated with acomplaint database that is
public, where people look atcertain products or services and
they think, for instance, I'lltalk about debt collection.
That's an area where there'salways a significant number of
complaints.
Many of those complaints arenot complaints, they're
(07:31):
inquiries because people aretrying to learn more about what
is happening with that account.
A lot of them in recent monthshave been generated by AI and
credit repair organizations.
So there's a lot of problems, alot of issues, and it's
something that the industry hasbeen flagging for a long time.
(07:52):
There seems to be some appetiteunder the CFPB to finally
address maybe some of thoseconcerns that credit unions have
.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I do have a ton.
It's kind of a random question.
You know, with the triggerleads bill, that's kind of
moving through the hill right.
Would oversight of that fallback on the CPB?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, I don't believe that legislation provides any
additional oversight to the CFPBthat I'm aware of.
But it's a timely questionbecause that bill is listed this
week as something that could beconsidered on the House floor,
(08:37):
not clear whether it's going tothey're going to get to that or
not.
They have a lot on their platethis week but it's a you know,
it's legislation that thisCongress has been moving much
quicker than we've seen it inany other Congresses and seems
to be some bipartisan support onthat issue.
So that could be something thatwe see in the next few weeks
(09:01):
actually moving forward,something that we see in the
next few weeks actually movingforward.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Because, if I know I'm catching you off guard and I
know this wasn't part of ourlist of things we had to talk
about, but I mean, I know thatit's on the plate and I know
it's moving through the Houseand it's already gone through
the Senate and it's already gonethrough, obviously, the House
Financial Services Committee.
But while we were talking abouteverything that's happening
with the CFPB, that was onequestion I did have was okay,
well, who's really going to bemonitoring the trigger leads
(09:30):
bill?
I guess it could be the FCC,right?
Or it really could be the CFPB.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, and you know what.
To clarify your point, so theCFPB does have jurisdiction over
the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
So they oversee theimplementation of any
regulations related to the FairCredit Reporting Act and they
have enforcement authority overthe Fair Credit Reporting Act.
So to that extent it would fallunder the CFPB's jurisdiction.
(10:04):
My point was just that itdidn't necessarily give them any
new authorities in that area orcall for any type of rulemaking
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay, good deal, good deal, all right.
So, moving on past the CFPB,thank you very much for updating
us on that.
Again, this is I don't want tocall it a moving target, but
there's still a lot unravelingwith the CFPB.
And I guess, one final questionon that, with us heading into
(10:33):
the July 4th holiday and reallythis I don't want to call it a
summer break because you neverknow what's going to happen.
You know, in the next few weeks, especially with things that
have recently transpired in theMiddle East, but you know
whether or not you know the Hillis going to be working or
(10:55):
whether or not they're going tobe taking a break.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
You know, is there any possibility that the CFPB
really sees any type of directorchange or, as we're just
assuming, that he's just thetemporary director for the time
being?
That's a great question and Iwill tell you personally, I
would love to see Dr Calabriastay over there.
Unfortunately I do not get tovote, but I think he's doing a
fantastic job and someone whoreally has great experience in
these issues.
But I think we will, we itreally could go either way.
(11:51):
I haven't necessarily heardthere's been some articles that
different names have beenfloated there, but there is
precedent for leaving an actingdirector in a position for quite
a while and then, you know, atsome point Director Vaught I
(12:13):
believe there's a time periodfor when he can be an acting
director.
So at some point they wouldhave to switch it to another
Senate-confirmed Republican tobe the acting director, and that
person could pretty much do thesame thing if they wanted to
and have the OMB detailees stayin that role, or they could
(12:37):
nominate someone and they couldmove forward with that process.
It really isn't totally clearyet, and I think to your point,
with just everything going onwith the Middle East and
everything going on with the bigbeautiful bill and
reconciliation.
It's probably not top of thelist for President Trump himself
(12:59):
, even though to us in thefinancial services industry this
is like a number one issue.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, you know it is a number one issue, but you
know, I mean you hinted at acouple of things.
Right, it's the big beautifulbill, reconciliation, you know.
The Middle East, you know allthese things have the
possibility of impacting our dayto day in the financial
services industry.
Right, historically speaking, awar in the Middle East has the
potential to drive down interestrates.
(13:28):
No one wants a war in theMiddle East.
No one wants lives lost.
But you have to question what'sgoing to happen with the
priorities of the BBB and thereconciliation and the
priorities of thisadministration now that we are
entering into a wartime.
(13:49):
But we're not here to talkabout that.
We're not here to debatewartime in the United States.
We're here to talk about CBB,reconciliation and the Hobbs Act
.
So let's move forward with theone big beautiful bill and
reconciliation.
So what is again?
(14:09):
This is an interesting dialogue.
It kind of bring us up to speedon everything that's happening
with.
You know, reconciliation, ifyou could.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Sure.
Well, I mean there's a lotgoing on.
There's a lot of moving pieces.
Late last week the Senateparliamentarian started taking a
closer look at several piecesof the bill, including the
Senate banking provisions, anddid strike down a number of
provisions.
I think most notably to us onthis podcast is that Senator Tim
(14:47):
Scott, the Senate bankingchairman, attempted to zero out
the funding of the CFPB and theparliamentarian basically said
that's not going to pass musterfor the birdbath and struck that
.
Also struck a provision thatwould have transferred the
public company accountingoversight board back to this
(15:08):
Securities and ExchangeCommission and also a section
related to pay of FederalReserve staff.
So this was kind of seen as ablow to Senate Republicans on
the banking committee that anumber of these provisions were
struck down.
I know that they're, as oftoday, taking a look with fresh
(15:30):
eyes of where cuts may be ableto be made that do pass muster
of the birdbath.
There is a section related to1071 that passed through the
parliamentarians' tests for thebirdbath.
So I think by the end of theweek we will have more clarity.
They are trying to get thingsdone by the 4th of July.
(15:54):
That's been the Trumpadministration's stated goal.
There's a lot of pressure onthe Senate and the House to do
that, but it's starting to.
Particularly after some ofthese things were struck down
late last week.
It's starting to look a littlebit more questionable whether
that time frame is going to beworkable, but there's a lot of
(16:16):
pressure to get this done assoon as possible.
Like you said earlier on in thepodcast, we're halfway through
the first year.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Time is really ticking away at this Congress
and they really kind of need toget this done.
Yeah, I mean, but not only that, I mean that timeline was also
not factoring in.
Again some recent developments,right?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Exactly yeah.
Although I think some of themcould have been.
I think there was a thoughtprocess that there was probably
a 50% chance of some of thesemaking it through and I think
Senate Banking Chair Scott kindof swung for the fences, knowing
it might be a tough uphillbattle on some of these, but
(17:00):
that was the approach he took.
Be a tough uphill battle onsome of these, but that was the
approach he took.
So people are surprised, butnot shocked, and probably very
likely have a plan B pretty muchlined up to go pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
All right, so I'm looking at my calendar.
You know here we are.
You know roughly, you know whenwe're when we are recording
this.
You know we are approximatelytwo weeks out from the 4th of
July and if it's not done by the4th of July, do they just go
home or do they stay till it'sdone?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I think the threat is they stay until it's done,
which is a big motivator,because I think all of us like
to take the 4th of July off.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And no one wants to be in DC on the 4th of July.
I mean it is insane.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
It is 100 million degrees.
And there's 2 billion peopledowntown, so it's a pretty good
motivator.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, I get it.
So no one.
A pretty good motivator.
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, I getit.
So no one wants to be there.
Again, it's humid, it's amiserable temperature and, yes,
everyone flocks to DC for thefireworks on the National Mall.
So, yeah, you have to do it atleast once in your life.
But yeah, still, okay, okay.
(18:18):
So anything else onreconciliation, or do you want
to move on to the Hobbes Act?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I mean there's a lot, but yeah, let's just move on
for now and see where we are.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Okay, I'm sure, reconciliation.
I hate to say it, but we'llprobably talk about it next
podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, you said it, not me.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I put it out into the universe.
I put it out into the universe,all right.
So what's going on with theHobbes Act and if you could
provide us a quick you know twosecond history of the Hobbes Act
and how it relates to you know?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
recent events, somewhat recent events leads to,
you know, recent events,somewhat recent events?
Sure, yeah, and so the HUBBSAct is a special law that is
related to final agency ordersthat only applies to certain
agencies, and so some of theagencies that it applies to are
(19:15):
the Federal CommunicationsCommission, the Department of
Housing and Urban Development,department of Agriculture,
department of Transportation andthen a few others, so it's kind
of a select few agencies thatit applies to.
Relevant is when we saw theLoeber decision last year, that
(19:41):
really changed the way thatagency regulations were
considered by courts.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And when you say the Loeber decision, you're
referring to Chevron right.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yes, yeah.
So the Chevron line of casesand the big decision that we got
last summer that basically said, you know previously that if a
statute or a law was unclearthere was deference to agencies
to interpret that and Loeberstruck that down and since then,
(20:10):
you know, agencyinterpretations have been given
less weight, which really alignswith a lot of the work of the
Supreme Court and now at thispoint the Trump administration
and Doge so been a big effort onthat front over the last year.
So this case that came downfrom the Supreme Court last week
(20:30):
dealt with it was a TCPArelated case that dealt with the
Hobbs Act and really a similarquestion to the Chevron-Loper
(21:09):
line of cases where it looked atsome of the FCC's orders
related to the TCPA and Loeppersaying that even with the Hobbs
Act, the court can can weightthat less than it has been
previously, which really is kindof a big deal because there are
a number of FCC orders relatedto the TCPA which impacts credit
(21:31):
unions and the calls that theyare making, the calls and texts
that they are making to members.
As we've talked about manytimes, there's a lot of
litigation on the TCPA andcredit union world.
There's a lot of class actions.
Even with some of the improvedprecedent that was out there, we
still continue to see cases onthis.
(22:02):
Well, here we are now.
We have, um, the supreme courtsaying you know, if you're
relying on something like whatthe FCC said about prior express
consent, the court may or maynot give that as much weight as
they did prior to this decision.
Um, so we don't know what.
We don't know exactly yet whatthat means.
We don't know what courts aregoing to say, but we know that
(22:23):
the plaintiff's bar loves thetcpa and loves to come up with
new legal theories to get thoseum five hundred dollars per call
damages and to bring classactions where you can make a ton
of money as a plaintiff'sattorney.
And this potentially throws awrench into what was previous.
(22:44):
What you know what kind of wasa clearer landscape for
following the TCPA.
After the Facebook decision fromthe Supreme Court, we now have
this decision, which we thinkwill probably prompt some
challenges at the district courtlevel, which may you know, we
don't know exactly how they'regoing to come down, but may
(23:05):
create a new patchwork ofdifferent types of decisions
related to things like consentthat could vary depending on
which court you are in aroundthe country, which is a problem,
as you know.
If you're a credit union, ifyou're Navy Federal, for
instance, and you have branchesin every state in the country
(23:28):
and courts come down on thisissue differently in different
circuits, it's pretty hard todevelop a compliance program
about consent that takes intoeffect.
It takes into account all thosedifferent decisions.
So very new just came out onFriday.
We're not sure where this willlead yet, but we think it could
(23:51):
open a can of worms and, as Imentioned, also relevant to
Acuma members is that HUD isalso covered by this.
So, even though the case wasspecific to the FCC and the TCPA
, it creates precedent for HUDregulations as well.
So that you know.
Similarly could open a numberof issues that we may not even
(24:14):
be thinking about yet.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
A number of issues that we may not even be thinking
about yet.
Well, I mean, it's not justthat.
You mentioned USDA, right?
So I mean we originate USDAloans all the time, so at least
our industry does.
So I mean you referenced FCC,hud and USDA, all of which have
potential to impact housing USDA, all of which have potential to
(24:42):
impact housing.
So it is very interesting tosee how these types of laws have
the potential to havelongstanding repercussions on
our industry and how we go aboutour day-to-day.
So it's very fascinating.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
It's how it just all unravels, and I would say maybe
just on the flip side of thatthere may be some upside as well
.
When you know, in the Bidenadministration the chairwoman of
the FCC was not a fan of,necessarily, industry arguments
related to the TCPA, so arguablyshe could have put out a TCPA
(25:17):
order that was reallyproblematic for callers and for
credit unions.
She didn't do that, but afuture FCC could do that,
someone that's more aligned with, like the NCLCs of the world.
So I guess in that regardthere's a little bit of a
protection for the businessindustry that an FCC chairperson
(25:39):
that wants to make life moredifficult for business can't do
that as easily.
But kind of like we talkedabout with the Loper decision
and the Chevron decision,there's upsides and downsides to
these decisions.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Okay, good to know.
And before we close out, isthere anything else that you
want to hit?
Speaker 4 (26:00):
I think those are the big things.
We will see what happens beforethe 4th of July.
I'm looking forward toreconciliation wrapping up and,
you know, honestly, thestablecoin legislation that
debate may be wrapping up thisweek.
They're really pushing to movethe Genius Act forward.
Trump called for that.
(26:21):
That issue does impact creditunions but it's not their number
one issue.
So I'm kind of looking forwardto when we get past those two
areas of the House FinancialServices Committee and then
maybe digging into more of thehousing issues and the consumer
finance issues that may be ofmore interest to us and really
(26:41):
credit union world once we getinto the second half of the year
.
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well, leah, as always .
Thank you very much for yourtime.
It's always great talking toyou and to everyone over at
Brownstein.
We appreciate your support andalways educating the Acuna
community.
Thank you, and, to close out,thank you again to Loan Vision
for sponsoring today's episodeand to all of you.
We know your time is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuna's On
(27:08):
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma On Point podcast.
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The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of ACUMA, its board of directors, its management staff or its
members.
The podcast discussionpresented is conversational in
nature and for generalinformation only.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to Act as On Point podcast, the
policy series where we focus onpolicy issues impacting the
credit union mortgage industry.
I'm your host, peter Benjamin.
Before we go to our episode,just a quick word from our
sponsor Before we go to ourepisode just a quick word from
our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This episode is being brought to you by Loan Vision.
Is your credit union looking toturn your accounting department
into a profit driver?
Loan Vision can helpno-transcript Transform your
(01:09):
cost centers into revenuegenerators by equipping your
team with the tools needed tobetter serve your members.
And don't miss our monthlywebinar series, where we share
key strategies and bestpractices to help credit unions
optimize their mortgageoperations Register today at
(01:36):
wwwloanvisioncom under ourupcoming events page.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's a little bit earlier here, but I've been up
since like 5 am and it's a sunny, nice day here, so everything's
going well.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean I'm sure it's probably a little bit cooler
than it is here in the DC area,Temperatures are rising.
What's going to be close to 100degrees today, you know.
I think that's a good segue anda good almost analogy for the
climate that's happening in DCright now, for the climate
that's happening in DC right now.
So, to that point, let's diveinto the latest and greatest
(02:10):
that's happening in Washington.
We have three great topicstoday.
We have the CFPB, we have thereconciliation and we have the
Hobbs Act, which we're going toexpand on, and this has been a
topic that we talked about inthe past in a different form,
but we're going to dive into ita bit more.
(02:31):
I think there's some things thathappened in the past week that
you're going to expand on.
The attorney in you is going tomost certainly dive into it for
us.
But let's start with the CFPB.
What is happening with the CFPB?
Cfpb what is happening with theCFPB?
We'll call it the.
I don't know if we want to callit the saga or the soap opera
(02:52):
with the CFPB.
I think they both play well.
But what's happening with theCFPB?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, yeah, I mean, it's a busy time over there and
we've obviously been followingsince beginning of the year when
there's been lawsuits aboutchanging the size of the staff,
there was a nominee that waspulled Jonathan McKernan.
But you know, despite a lot offlurry of activity and different
(03:19):
kind of changes happeningthrough litigation and other
avenues, they've kind of, Ithink, settled into some
policymaking finally and they'vebeen active, I think, in a very
productive way for creditunions.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And happy to talk a little bit more about that.
No, let's dive into that a bitBecause I think you know,
obviously, you, obviously theCFPB is, for all intents and
purposes, outside of the a bit.
(04:02):
You know most credit unionsalmost fear that point in time
when they kind of break overthat.
You know that $10 billiondeposit threshold.
You know they start ramping upstaff, they start really
(04:23):
doubling down on compliance.
They start ramping up staff,they start really doubling down
on compliance.
They start questioning orasking a lot of questions from
other credit unions or peergroups about what it's like
being under the CPB's purview.
Now, does that change, now thatwe're in this new era of CPB
oversight or makeup of the CPBin this new administration?
(04:44):
I don't necessarily know if Ican call it new administration
anymore, since we're halfwaythrough the first year, but I
think it's important for us todive in a bit more because it
does impact credit unionssignificantly.
So if you could, let's dive ina bit.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Sure.
Well, that's a great point anda great question.
Some of what we've seen earlyon in the CFPB, when Mark
Calabria and his team kind oftook over as detailees from the
OMB, is, you know, first reallyaddressing a lot of the
rulemakings and lawsuits thatwere kind of an overhang from
the Biden administration.
(05:18):
They've pretty much gonethrough that list.
For the most part They'veaddressed credit card late fees.
They addressed overdraft.
They are in the middle oflitigation addressing the
medical debt credit reportingpiece that we've talked about
many times on the podcast.
And now at this point we'restarting to see some proactive
(05:39):
policymaking.
We have seen multiple thingsnoticed in the Federal Register
in recent weeks.
They submitted to OIRA forreview some of the mortgage
rules and we're not 100% surewhat that's going to entail yet,
but it seems to indicate thatthe CPB is moving towards
(06:01):
reopening and reexamining someof the regulations from the past
decade.
Plus the mortgage rules, asmost listeners on this podcast
know, were some of the firstrules that the CFPB worked on.
Some of that was because theystatutorily had timelines where
they had to.
So I very much expect that overthe next several months we're
(06:24):
going to continue to see changesand deregulatory efforts.
The CBP is also, I believe,going to be looking at things
like the complaint database.
They mentioned that in theirwithdrawal of the guidance
pieces that they were going towithdraw, the consumer
narratives related to thecomplaint database and
(06:44):
potentially the fact that it'spublic.
In general For credit unions,the complaints at NCUA are
received by the agency but notmade publicly available works
(07:08):
well in identifying bad actors,without having the many problems
that are associated with acomplaint database that is
public, where people look atcertain products or services and
they think, for instance, I'lltalk about debt collection.
That's an area where there'salways a significant number of
complaints.
Many of those complaints arenot complaints, they're
(07:31):
inquiries because people aretrying to learn more about what
is happening with that account.
A lot of them in recent monthshave been generated by AI and
credit repair organizations.
So there's a lot of problems, alot of issues, and it's
something that the industry hasbeen flagging for a long time.
(07:52):
There seems to be some appetiteunder the CFPB to finally
address maybe some of thoseconcerns that credit unions have
.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I do have a ton.
It's kind of a random question.
You know, with the triggerleads bill, that's kind of
moving through the hill right.
Would oversight of that fallback on the CPB?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, I don't believe that legislation provides any
additional oversight to the CFPBthat I'm aware of.
But it's a timely questionbecause that bill is listed this
week as something that could beconsidered on the House floor,
(08:37):
not clear whether it's going tothey're going to get to that or
not.
They have a lot on their platethis week but it's a you know,
it's legislation that thisCongress has been moving much
quicker than we've seen it inany other Congresses and seems
to be some bipartisan support onthat issue.
So that could be something thatwe see in the next few weeks
(09:01):
actually moving forward,something that we see in the
next few weeks actually movingforward.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Because, if I know I'm catching you off guard and I
know this wasn't part of ourlist of things we had to talk
about, but I mean, I know thatit's on the plate and I know
it's moving through the Houseand it's already gone through
the Senate and it's already gonethrough, obviously, the House
Financial Services Committee.
But while we were talking abouteverything that's happening
with the CFPB, that was onequestion I did have was okay,
well, who's really going to bemonitoring the trigger leads
(09:30):
bill?
I guess it could be the FCC,right?
Or it really could be the CFPB.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, and you know what.
To clarify your point, so theCFPB does have jurisdiction over
the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
So they oversee theimplementation of any
regulations related to the FairCredit Reporting Act and they
have enforcement authority overthe Fair Credit Reporting Act.
So to that extent it would fallunder the CFPB's jurisdiction.
(10:04):
My point was just that itdidn't necessarily give them any
new authorities in that area orcall for any type of rulemaking
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay, good deal, good deal, all right.
So, moving on past the CFPB,thank you very much for updating
us on that.
Again, this is I don't want tocall it a moving target, but
there's still a lot unravelingwith the CFPB.
And I guess, one final questionon that, with us heading into
(10:33):
the July 4th holiday and reallythis I don't want to call it a
summer break because you neverknow what's going to happen.
You know, in the next few weeks, especially with things that
have recently transpired in theMiddle East, but you know
whether or not you know the Hillis going to be working or
(10:55):
whether or not they're going tobe taking a break.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
You know, is there any possibility that the CFPB
really sees any type of directorchange or, as we're just
assuming, that he's just thetemporary director for the time
being?
That's a great question and Iwill tell you personally, I
would love to see Dr Calabriastay over there.
Unfortunately I do not get tovote, but I think he's doing a
fantastic job and someone whoreally has great experience in
these issues.
But I think we will, we itreally could go either way.
(11:51):
I haven't necessarily heardthere's been some articles that
different names have beenfloated there, but there is
precedent for leaving an actingdirector in a position for quite
a while and then, you know, atsome point Director Vaught I
(12:13):
believe there's a time periodfor when he can be an acting
director.
So at some point they wouldhave to switch it to another
Senate-confirmed Republican tobe the acting director, and that
person could pretty much do thesame thing if they wanted to
and have the OMB detailees stayin that role, or they could
(12:37):
nominate someone and they couldmove forward with that process.
It really isn't totally clearyet, and I think to your point,
with just everything going onwith the Middle East and
everything going on with the bigbeautiful bill and
reconciliation.
It's probably not top of thelist for President Trump himself
(12:59):
, even though to us in thefinancial services industry this
is like a number one issue.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, you know it is a number one issue, but you
know, I mean you hinted at acouple of things.
Right, it's the big beautifulbill, reconciliation, you know.
The Middle East, you know allthese things have the
possibility of impacting our dayto day in the financial
services industry.
Right, historically speaking, awar in the Middle East has the
potential to drive down interestrates.
(13:28):
No one wants a war in theMiddle East.
No one wants lives lost.
But you have to question what'sgoing to happen with the
priorities of the BBB and thereconciliation and the
priorities of thisadministration now that we are
entering into a wartime.
(13:49):
But we're not here to talkabout that.
We're not here to debatewartime in the United States.
We're here to talk about CBB,reconciliation and the Hobbs Act
.
So let's move forward with theone big beautiful bill and
reconciliation.
So what is again?
(14:09):
This is an interesting dialogue.
It kind of bring us up to speedon everything that's happening
with.
You know, reconciliation, ifyou could.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Sure.
Well, I mean there's a lotgoing on.
There's a lot of moving pieces.
Late last week the Senateparliamentarian started taking a
closer look at several piecesof the bill, including the
Senate banking provisions, anddid strike down a number of
provisions.
I think most notably to us onthis podcast is that Senator Tim
(14:47):
Scott, the Senate bankingchairman, attempted to zero out
the funding of the CFPB and theparliamentarian basically said
that's not going to pass musterfor the birdbath and struck that
.
Also struck a provision thatwould have transferred the
public company accountingoversight board back to this
(15:08):
Securities and ExchangeCommission and also a section
related to pay of FederalReserve staff.
So this was kind of seen as ablow to Senate Republicans on
the banking committee that anumber of these provisions were
struck down.
I know that they're, as oftoday, taking a look with fresh
(15:30):
eyes of where cuts may be ableto be made that do pass muster
of the birdbath.
There is a section related to1071 that passed through the
parliamentarians' tests for thebirdbath.
So I think by the end of theweek we will have more clarity.
They are trying to get thingsdone by the 4th of July.
(15:54):
That's been the Trumpadministration's stated goal.
There's a lot of pressure onthe Senate and the House to do
that, but it's starting to.
Particularly after some ofthese things were struck down
late last week.
It's starting to look a littlebit more questionable whether
that time frame is going to beworkable, but there's a lot of
(16:16):
pressure to get this done assoon as possible.
Like you said earlier on in thepodcast, we're halfway through
the first year.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Time is really ticking away at this Congress
and they really kind of need toget this done.
Yeah, I mean, but not only that, I mean that timeline was also
not factoring in.
Again some recent developments,right?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Exactly yeah.
Although I think some of themcould have been.
I think there was a thoughtprocess that there was probably
a 50% chance of some of thesemaking it through and I think
Senate Banking Chair Scott kindof swung for the fences, knowing
it might be a tough uphillbattle on some of these, but
(17:00):
that was the approach he took.
Be a tough uphill battle onsome of these, but that was the
approach he took.
So people are surprised, butnot shocked, and probably very
likely have a plan B pretty muchlined up to go pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
All right, so I'm looking at my calendar.
You know here we are.
You know roughly, you know whenwe're when we are recording
this.
You know we are approximatelytwo weeks out from the 4th of
July and if it's not done by the4th of July, do they just go
home or do they stay till it'sdone?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I think the threat is they stay until it's done,
which is a big motivator,because I think all of us like
to take the 4th of July off.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And no one wants to be in DC on the 4th of July.
I mean it is insane.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
It is 100 million degrees.
And there's 2 billion peopledowntown, so it's a pretty good
motivator.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, I get it.
So no one.
A pretty good motivator.
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, I getit.
So no one wants to be there.
Again, it's humid, it's amiserable temperature and, yes,
everyone flocks to DC for thefireworks on the National Mall.
So, yeah, you have to do it atleast once in your life.
But yeah, still, okay, okay.
(18:18):
So anything else onreconciliation, or do you want
to move on to the Hobbes Act?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I mean there's a lot, but yeah, let's just move on
for now and see where we are.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Okay, I'm sure, reconciliation.
I hate to say it, but we'llprobably talk about it next
podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, you said it, not me.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I put it out into the universe.
I put it out into the universe,all right.
So what's going on with theHobbes Act and if you could
provide us a quick you know twosecond history of the Hobbes Act
and how it relates to you know?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
recent events, somewhat recent events leads to,
you know, recent events,somewhat recent events?
Sure, yeah, and so the HUBBSAct is a special law that is
related to final agency ordersthat only applies to certain
agencies, and so some of theagencies that it applies to are
(19:15):
the Federal CommunicationsCommission, the Department of
Housing and Urban Development,department of Agriculture,
department of Transportation andthen a few others, so it's kind
of a select few agencies thatit applies to.
Relevant is when we saw theLoeber decision last year, that
(19:41):
really changed the way thatagency regulations were
considered by courts.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And when you say the Loeber decision, you're
referring to Chevron right.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yes, yeah.
So the Chevron line of casesand the big decision that we got
last summer that basically said, you know previously that if a
statute or a law was unclearthere was deference to agencies
to interpret that and Loeberstruck that down and since then,
(20:10):
you know, agencyinterpretations have been given
less weight, which really alignswith a lot of the work of the
Supreme Court and now at thispoint the Trump administration
and Doge so been a big effort onthat front over the last year.
So this case that came downfrom the Supreme Court last week
(20:30):
dealt with it was a TCPArelated case that dealt with the
Hobbs Act and really a similarquestion to the Chevron-Loper
(21:09):
line of cases where it looked atsome of the FCC's orders
related to the TCPA and Loeppersaying that even with the Hobbs
Act, the court can can weightthat less than it has been
previously, which really is kindof a big deal because there are
a number of FCC orders relatedto the TCPA which impacts credit
(21:31):
unions and the calls that theyare making, the calls and texts
that they are making to members.
As we've talked about manytimes, there's a lot of
litigation on the TCPA andcredit union world.
There's a lot of class actions.
Even with some of the improvedprecedent that was out there, we
still continue to see cases onthis.
(22:02):
Well, here we are now.
We have, um, the supreme courtsaying you know, if you're
relying on something like whatthe FCC said about prior express
consent, the court may or maynot give that as much weight as
they did prior to this decision.
Um, so we don't know what.
We don't know exactly yet whatthat means.
We don't know what courts aregoing to say, but we know that
(22:23):
the plaintiff's bar loves thetcpa and loves to come up with
new legal theories to get thoseum five hundred dollars per call
damages and to bring classactions where you can make a ton
of money as a plaintiff'sattorney.
And this potentially throws awrench into what was previous.
(22:44):
What you know what kind of wasa clearer landscape for
following the TCPA.
After the Facebook decision fromthe Supreme Court, we now have
this decision, which we thinkwill probably prompt some
challenges at the district courtlevel, which may you know, we
don't know exactly how they'regoing to come down, but may
(23:05):
create a new patchwork ofdifferent types of decisions
related to things like consentthat could vary depending on
which court you are in aroundthe country, which is a problem,
as you know.
If you're a credit union, ifyou're Navy Federal, for
instance, and you have branchesin every state in the country
(23:28):
and courts come down on thisissue differently in different
circuits, it's pretty hard todevelop a compliance program
about consent that takes intoeffect.
It takes into account all thosedifferent decisions.
So very new just came out onFriday.
We're not sure where this willlead yet, but we think it could
(23:51):
open a can of worms and, as Imentioned, also relevant to
Acuma members is that HUD isalso covered by this.
So, even though the case wasspecific to the FCC and the TCPA
, it creates precedent for HUDregulations as well.
So that you know.
Similarly could open a numberof issues that we may not even
(24:14):
be thinking about yet.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
A number of issues that we may not even be thinking
about yet.
Well, I mean, it's not justthat.
You mentioned USDA, right?
So I mean we originate USDAloans all the time, so at least
our industry does.
So I mean you referenced FCC,hud and USDA, all of which have
potential to impact housing USDA, all of which have potential to
(24:42):
impact housing.
So it is very interesting tosee how these types of laws have
the potential to havelongstanding repercussions on
our industry and how we go aboutour day-to-day.
So it's very fascinating.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
It's how it just all unravels, and I would say maybe
just on the flip side of thatthere may be some upside as well
.
When you know, in the Bidenadministration the chairwoman of
the FCC was not a fan of,necessarily, industry arguments
related to the TCPA, so arguablyshe could have put out a TCPA
(25:17):
order that was reallyproblematic for callers and for
credit unions.
She didn't do that, but afuture FCC could do that,
someone that's more aligned with, like the NCLCs of the world.
So I guess in that regardthere's a little bit of a
protection for the businessindustry that an FCC chairperson
(25:39):
that wants to make life moredifficult for business can't do
that as easily.
But kind of like we talkedabout with the Loper decision
and the Chevron decision,there's upsides and downsides to
these decisions.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Okay, good to know.
And before we close out, isthere anything else that you
want to hit?
Speaker 4 (26:00):
I think those are the big things.
We will see what happens beforethe 4th of July.
I'm looking forward toreconciliation wrapping up and,
you know, honestly, thestablecoin legislation that
debate may be wrapping up thisweek.
They're really pushing to movethe Genius Act forward.
Trump called for that.
(26:21):
That issue does impact creditunions but it's not their number
one issue.
So I'm kind of looking forwardto when we get past those two
areas of the House FinancialServices Committee and then
maybe digging into more of thehousing issues and the consumer
finance issues that may be ofmore interest to us and really
(26:41):
credit union world once we getinto the second half of the year
.
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well, leah, as always .
Thank you very much for yourtime.
It's always great talking toyou and to everyone over at
Brownstein.
We appreciate your support andalways educating the Acuna
community.
Thank you, and, to close out,thank you again to Loan Vision
for sponsoring today's episodeand to all of you.
We know your time is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuna's On
(27:08):
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma On Point podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a
five-star rating For more greatepisodes and information.
Be sure to visit us online atacumaorg and to get the latest
updates.
Head over to our LinkedIn page.
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