June 25, 2025 • 42 mins
What if the annual HMDA filing you've treated as a compliance burden is your most powerful strategic tool? In this eye-opening conversation with Laird Nossuli, CEO of iEmergent, we explore how credit unions can transform their relationship with mortgage data from reluctant obligation to competitive advantage.
Laird shares her passionate perspective on how HMDA data provides a comprehensive blueprint of lending patterns that can inform decision-making across your organization. From identifying gaps in your geographic coverage to spotting opportunities for product innovation, this consistently collected data offers insights beyond regulatory compliance.
The conversation is particularly compelling when we discuss how HMDA analysis can help credit unions build trust in historically underserved communities. By understanding the patterns of loan denials and addressing specific barriers to homeownership, credit unions can establish themselves as trusted partners in communities where banks have fallen short. As Laird explains, this trust extends beyond individual borrowers to entire families and neighborhoods, creating networks of loyalty that drive sustainable growth.
Perhaps most importantly, we challenge the conventional wisdom about mortgage lending being primarily driven by interest rates. "Interest rates don't buy mortgages. People buy mortgages," Laird notes, emphasizing that life events will always create demand regardless of rate environments. Credit unions can develop mortgage programs that thrive in any market by focusing on relationship-building rather than rate-chasing.
Sponsored by Consolidated Analytics.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board of directors, its management staff or its
members.
The podcast discussionpresented is conversational in
nature and for generalinformation only.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Actors On Point podcast, a
series focused on sharing thestories of people who are making
a positive impact in the creditunion mortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Before we get to our episode,just a quick word from our
sponsor.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This episode is brought to you by Consolidated
Analytics, helping credit unionsmake smarter mortgage decisions
, from origination to servicingand beyond.
With expert valuation, riskmanagement and compliance
solutions, they provide theinsights you need to protect
your members and grow yourportfolio with confidence.
Whether it's due diligence or acollateral risk assessment,
(01:04):
they help you navigate themarket with ease.
Learn more atconsolidatedanalyticscom.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Welcome to the second episode of our Compliance
Summer miniseries, where eachepisode will feature an intimate
conversation with people who Iconsider to be experts in their
field and supporters of thecredit union movement.
As a reminder, with each ofthese episodes, it's our goal to
take a deep dive into variouscompliance topics that are
(01:30):
impacting and reshaping thecredit union mortgage industry.
Our next guest in theCompliance Miniseries is Laird
Nusuli, CEO with IE.
Merchant Laird, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I am good.
How are you, Peter?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I am good.
How are you, peter?
I am fantastic.
I'm excited for ourconversation today for a couple
reasons, and we talked aboutthis and I always sandbag, but
we talked about this topic andthe topic is Hamda, and I'm
always sandbagging a little bit,but it's a topic that I've
grown to better appreciate in myas my time as as president of
(02:12):
Acuma and I'm a.
That's all I'm going to giveaway for now, but I'm excited
that I brought you here, becauseI consider you to be one of the
foremost experts on the topic.
on the subject, on the act andso thank you very much for being
(02:34):
here.
You're very welcome, I'm happyto be, and so, before we get to
the meat and potatoes of theconversation, let's bring Justin
in, like we always do.
Justin the hawk, how are youdoing today?
And please tell us what is thelatest and greatest happening
over at Acoma?
I'm good, peter.
How are you Living the dream?
Thank you very much, awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
So I mean over here we finished up the first.
I like to say it's the firsthalf of the year for our
in-person events.
So, all of our workshops aredone, our summits are done,
annual registration I mean it'sbeen open since April.
It's not like it's a secret,but it has officially launched
again.
We do that in June every year,so relaunched a couple weeks ago
(03:19):
, so we're really excited.
The agenda we have, thespeakers that are lined up I
mean it's absolutely amazing, Ithink.
The after party.
I was listening to one of ourrecent episodes not too long ago
and the whole after partyconversation just had me
cracking up, because I don'tthink we've come up with another
name for it yet, I think.
(03:41):
I think we're still calling itthe after party.
That's happening on.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I don't know if we're going to call it anything
besides a pre after party.
I still like the idea of atailgate, but it's not a
tailgate because there's no cars.
But anyways, we'll figuresomething out.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
That's something that we could do.
Bring out the grills and stuff,like, have everybody have a pit
boss or something come out anddo some barbecue, yeah, but we
can't do that in Vegas, though.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I mean in Vegas.
We probably can get fun Like wecan do.
The Fountain Blue next year hasan awesome pool, so maybe do
like a pool party.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
There's something.
See, the wheels are turningwe're already planning 2026 and
we're not even, we haven't evenhad 2025 yet let's do it, but
annuals coming up.
It's going to be September 21stto the 24th.
It's going to be in Denver,colorado, so if you haven't
already, go to the websiteregister.
Come make your mark with us.
(04:43):
It's going to be a spectacularevent that you're not going to
want to miss lots of surprises Imean anybody's ever met you,
they know that you have sometricks up your sleeve always.
I mean, there there are somekiller surprises this year the
only, the one surprise I'm goingto say that we're very sad we
didn't do is you come riding inon a horse that would have been
(05:07):
epic.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So, laird, we tried, you know.
So the Broncos have like a realhorse.
They do what's it calledThunder, Thunder, thunder.
We tried getting Thunder thehorse, and the more we went down
the path it just seemed like areally bad idea and so we
(05:29):
stopped going down that path.
So, yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Yeah, so just to give everybody that idea.
If that was one surprise, justimagine what else we have in the
store.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, what were you?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
saying I was gonna say that would have been my
son's dream.
He's a broncos fan and you knowwe're horse people.
Um he, he if, bernard, if thathad materialized, that would
have been the most excitingthing to my son ever.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Thunder huh thunder, yeah, yeah well, if you can't
make it to annual, which will bevery sad if you don't make it
to annual, but if you can't makeit, don't, don't worry, we have
plenty of other things going on.
We have our marketing networkq3 meeting that will be coming
up next month uh, so be onlookout for information on that.
And then we have our webinarseries, our fast tracks and
(06:22):
inside tracks.
Those are happening year round.
And then then, lastly, ourfavorite, the on point podcast,
which just helps keep the funand learning going all year
round.
Awesome, thank you, justin.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Thank you All right, laird.
So again, as I mentioned, we'regoing to talk about HMDA.
But before we do that, I alwaysmention this and I always talk
about this, and we have to staywith the roots of the podcast
before we dive into humda.
This pod is based off of apeople piece and so, before we
even dive into humda, it's aboutsharing the stories of people
(06:59):
who are making a positive impactin the credit union mortgage
industry.
I consider you to be one ofthose people, and so the first
question out of the gate isalways the same, the last
question out of the gate isalways the same or to leave the
gates always the same, and thepodcast is always the same.
So first question is who islayered?
(07:20):
So that's the first questionbefore we get into Hamda, before
we get into the realconversation.
But the first question is whois Laird?
If you could, for those whodon't know, you share your story
.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Okay, I can do that.
So, laird Nasuli, I am the CEOof iEmergence founder, and I am
a passionate, purpose-drivenperson specifically around
closing the home ownership gap,and I inherited, along with my
(07:57):
husband, who is our COO, bernard, the company when my dad had a
lung transplant and,unfortunately, fought a lot of
challenges, and we lost him in2016.
With that being said, though,we've changed the focus of
iEmergent and have grown a lotwith information and data and
(08:18):
technology that really hasallowed us to reach out to
lenders of all sizes types,absolutely loving working with
credit unions because of themission-driven mentality.
Me, besides that, I have twochildren.
They're 12 and 15.
And I'm an avid, avid, avidequestrian, but I love data.
(08:42):
I love data not as much as myfamily or my horses, but I
really love the data.
So is that enough information?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I can, I can that's perfect, and you forgot to
mention that that Bernard is afellow commander's fan and I
appreciate that very much abouthim.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yes, I bet he appreciates that about you as
well.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, yes, I I I always appreciate a good
Commanders fan, especially whenI run into them, because I feel
like it's been a long time sincewe have something to be proud
of and we finally have somethingto be proud of.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Because there aren't enough Commanders fans in
Maryland already.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
There aren't, though.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I mean there are now, I mean now there.
I mean now there are, but nowthere are yeah everybody came
out of load works.
I mean, I've been, you know,commanders fan my whole life and
or you know whatever they usedto be called.
But the thing is is that Iremember going to games and
(09:46):
there were more fans of theopposing team at that stadium
and it was just heartbreaking.
Now, when you go to games,there's more commanders fans and
that is a good thing to see.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Anyways, did you know that we named our dog rigs
after john riggan?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
that is awesome.
That is awesome, that, that'samazing.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
That's good, good, good name good yeah, big part of
bernard's background in lifeand um.
I think he would have felt yourpain, but it's certainly
experiencing your joy right now.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Where is it?
Hold on, you can't see itbecause it's not a good
signature Um Daryl green.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Oh, oh, that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And for those, and obviously this is an audio only,
but I just held up like a mini,mini Redskins helmet, you know
old school Redskins helmetthat's signed by Daryl green, so
, um, anyways, I digress.
So where?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
yes.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Focus on the conversation of Hamda.
So you and I talked about thispre-recording and so the reason
why we selected this topicbecause, yes, hamda's been
around for a very long time andHamda is just one of those
things that we do on an annualbasis.
But here's the thing I've cometo appreciate HMDA during my
(11:29):
time here as president of Acuma,more and more every single year
, and I think it's for moreattention brought on credit
unions by big banks, communitybanks, for various reasons.
If you think about the taxexemption for credit unions, I
(11:54):
think you could easily tie itback to HMDA.
Hmda very much holds hands withfair lending.
If you look at recent redliningcases, you could easily tie it
back with HMDA.
And so I've come to appreciatethe need to understand HMDA,
your data, more and more.
And for me, having sat in ourlisteners' about almost three
(12:21):
and a half years ago just shy ofthree and a half years ago you
know, for me, you know the needto file HMDA on an annual basis.
It was just a necessary evilthat we filed and we forgot
about to the following year,that's all it was Just.
Oh great, it's March again.
Let's follow our HMDA and let'sdo it and get it off our plate
(12:45):
and let's get back to closingloans.
Right, there was no analysis,there was no deep dive, there
was nothing about us looking atthe actual data.
Not only that, it wasn't justmortgage.
There was nothing from thecompliance department.
There was nothing that therewas no look back from a fair
(13:06):
lending review Nothing.
And I'm going to take it onestep further Again.
I said this before Hindsight's20-20.
Hindsight's 2020.
Thinking back to my communitybank days, you know, I wish I
would have shown moreappreciation for my compliance
officers time when she pulled meinto her office, because I was,
(13:32):
you know, the head of ops for amortgage division for a
community bank, and whenever wedid that fair lending review,
which is really based off ofHamda, I really wish I would
have shown her more appreciationwhen she would just kind of
walk us through our fair lendingreview, because I just sat in
(13:55):
her office and just rolled myeyes and basically said what do
you want me to do?
Like, the data is the data and Iwould just pretty much be
snarky the whole time.
Right, but there's so much wecan learn from this data and I
truly think as though,regardless of size.
I truly think as though,regardless of size, credit
(14:24):
unions can learn a lot from ourdata, and we're not leveraging
enough.
Not only that, we're not usingit to our advantage, and people
are using it against us, andpeople are using it against us,
and so that's why we're havingthis conversation on HMDA,
because it's such a vital toolfor us.
So, but before we talk abouthow we can leverage this tool,
(14:45):
let's talk about HMDA itself.
So you're the expert.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So walk us through HMDA.
So HMDA Home MortgageDisclosure Act data really is
(15:20):
the deliverable that resultedfrom a law, like you said,
consistent data at a loan levelor actually an application level
for all residential mortgageapplications and originations,
and it's changed a bit over theyears.
We've been working with itsince 1999 is actually the first
year that we have data and Iwill say that in 2018, the data
became far more robust,reporting really improved and
(15:41):
your abilities or the abilitiesof institutions to use it.
Not only you know kind of likeyou said, peter, to you know a
half-do and a protection youknow as a sort of a shield.
It can be used as a swordbecause it is actually really
great, even though it'sretroactive looking.
It is really great for lookingat and setting goals for the
(16:03):
future, but part of that isbetter now because of the
robustness of the data.
So really it tracks a number ofthings on the loan.
It's focusing on the loanitself.
You know what's the rate spread, what's the application I
should say Rate spread, lender,loan size, points collected so
(16:27):
you really get a completepicture of what a loan looks
like and you get a relativelygood picture about what the
borrower looks like relativelygood picture about what the
borrower looks like.
And when you put all of thattogether in the LAR which is
like the raw data set, is calledthe LAR, which is the loan
application record when you lookat that data at an aggregate
(16:48):
basis whether it's for just youknow if you have a small
footprint for the US, for aparticular census tract you
really learn about lenders,products and you learn about
markets, and that market pieceis one of the ones that I think
has been left off the table.
You know so often what HMDA is.
(17:09):
The analysis is how are wedoing compared to our peers?
And it ends with that.
That is where I think there'sthat loss of really valuable
information.
To, in a sense, take thatconversation you had with your
compliance person and unify itwith sales, and it's really in
(17:30):
how you look at all of the dataon its own as its own great
source, because one of thethings about it because it is
collected annually and it iscollected in a very you know,
completely consistent mannerit's clean data.
As far as data go, I mean wecould.
There is data out there fromrecorder's offices where you can
find out, you know, informationon loans, but it has none of
(17:54):
the rigor around it ofconsistency that HMDA does, and
that is what is so criticalabout it, for so many different
reasons.
But the other piece that itadds, again away from the peer
group look at compliance.
It also adds if you look at itover time, even though it's
(18:17):
retroactive, and I can talkabout how it retroactively
influences the data that wecreate or provide that's
proactive, that's a forecast.
But if you look at itretroactively, you can see
patterns in it.
You know, for us, we look atpatterns.
In every census tract, in everymarket has a pattern.
(18:38):
And what's interesting is, eventhough we think we can't
predict mortgages or whereoriginations will be, we can
predict those patterns.
And when you take thosepatterns and you use what you've
learned from HMDA and you tiethat with demographic data, you
do get a better idea about whatthe future could look like.
That with demographic data, youdo get a better idea about what
(18:59):
the future could look like.
But that again, what is sovaluable about Humdell looking
backward is it really is a youknow time series.
I guess it's a blueprint forwhat is happening competitively
and how the industry is changing.
And since it's relativelysticky because you only get it
annually.
It has enough consistency thatreally start informing a
(19:23):
baseline just a baseline thoughfor strategy moving forward.
You know it is.
It's not easy to collect.
I'm sure that you know, peter,that's probably part of the
reason you rolled your eyes.
I mean it's to collect.
I'm sure that you know, peter,that's probably part of the
reason you rolled your eyes.
I mean it has to be veryspecific.
It's reported by nearly alllenders.
There are lenders that areexempt and they just raised the
(19:44):
threshold.
I think it's a hundredtransactions now, and so you
also don't get any informationfrom brokers on it, because it's
really reported by the lenderboth the correspondent and the
broker lender but it is thelender that's recording it.
So you get a lot of informationat a market level.
(20:05):
You get a lot of informationabout trends at a sort of an
industry level, you get a lot ofinformation about your own
institution and you get a lot ofinformation from Hamda on the
competitive landscape.
Those things together make itvery valuable internally.
On the external side, though,it really is what helped
(20:25):
maintain transparency.
As you said, this informs fairlending practices.
That was its whole point.
It does that well.
Also, you know, forinstitutions that have CRA
responsibilities.
It's also a fantastic way to totrack it and, again, part of
that is, even though it's a lotof work, it has tremendous value
(20:47):
because it's so structured andconsistent.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, so it's.
It is a lot of work, right, buthere's the thing and I'm not
trying to pause for dramaticeffect or anything like that,
but it's a lot of work, right.
But for me, just looking andagain, I'm looking in from afar,
(21:13):
right, I'm not part of theprocess.
I'm looking in from afar, right, I'm not, I'm not part of the
process, I'm not part of amortgage operations right now,
right, but a lot of creditunions, let's be honest,
volume's not up, right, volume'sdown, right.
Yes, if you look at what FreddieMac is saying, mba is saying
(21:37):
you know a lot of economists aresaying you know we should end
the year better than 2024.
So 2025 should be better thanlast year, right, but still
volume's down.
You know, if you have enoughtime to implement a new
technology?
You still not.
I'm sorry, not every single oneof your resources within your
(21:57):
mortgage department is atcapacity, right.
You still have time to look atthe data, right, and I think you
can agree that if you just getinto the routine of doing it,
the routine comes easier themore you do it.
(22:19):
For sure, Right, you knowwhether you're looking at.
You know the public data dataset or your internal data set.
I don't mean, I guess theinternal data set is probably
better for your, for your ownreview, because there's a lot
more information, Right, but whywouldn't you want to go down
(22:46):
that path?
I mean, it's if it's, if it's adaily routine or a monthly
routine or something like that.
I mean, why wouldn't you wantto go down that path?
I mean, if it's a daily routineor a monthly routine or
something like that.
I mean why wouldn't you?
I mean because you know whatyour competitors you know bank
lobbyists are using your publicdata set against you.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Why wouldn't you want to get into the routine,
regardless of size?
Why wouldn't you want to knowthat right?
I?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
think a lot of it comes from the fact that there's
so many data points that peopledon't know where to start.
They don't know which datapoints matter, how to use it.
It's all there, and in our workwe so often have to show people
what they should be looking at.
So I think that's part of thewhy, wouldn't you?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But you know it's a couple of things, right?
Yes, hmda can help you figureout.
Okay, where am I lending, right?
Where and who am I lending to?
Am I lending equitably acrossthe board, across the spectrum?
Right.
But also, am I lending in myfootprint, right?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And if I'm not OK, I need to make some strategic
decisions to start movingtowards that footprint right.
I think that's the mostimportant thing right.
And I think, if you look at themost recent redlining case, I
(24:22):
think that's a perfect exampleof how the data wasn't being
leveraged.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
For that exact purpose, right, or am I off base
?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
No, you're absolutely right.
I mean, the location of it isso important.
You know we map it.
It's very, very easy to seebecause, even though the public
data set doesn't have a dot, youknow a point it doesn't have an
address.
It has a census tract.
If you're looking at your data,you have the address, so you
can plot it on a map, but youget a visual representation of
(24:56):
whether you're representing yourfootprint.
It's a very good way, justvisually, to start looking at
concerns ahead of time about youknow fair lending and redlining
ahead of time about you knowfair lending and redlining.
But the piece that I think getslost is that you are looking at
your data to see what you'recovering, but by looking at who
(25:17):
isn't being served, for example,if you look at the market and
you look at the applicationsthat are denied, withdrawn or
incomplete mainly the denials,though and you do more of a deep
dive, you can get some greatideas for products, because it's
also showing you where there'snot untapped need, but need
(25:38):
that's there.
If someone went to the extentthey think they're close enough
on the home buyer journey tohave an application, but they
were denied.
If we get a sense of why theywere denied and we start looking
at solutions that wouldovercome that one denial or two
denials I mean, it's thepatterns of that.
Then you start thinking, hey,you know there's nobody here
(25:58):
that's able to lend to this withthis like program for this.
You know this type of borrowerand I think that's what's one of
the things that's lost.
The same thing, time is, if youlook and you use that beginning
idea of are we lending in ourfootprint, and you find what we
call gaps in coverage, like bigholes, whether it's a segment
hole or it's a actual geographichole.
(26:22):
The data give you a startingpoint for saying why and you can
look at, well, what productsare we using.
You know what are the again,what are the patterns that we're
seeing.
You can use the public datafrom HMDA.
You can use your data in realtime and then you can figure out
how to use your real data thatyou're going to submit to HMDA
(26:43):
with some of the more currentcounty property data, and that
mix of all of those togetherpaints a very clear picture
about you know what are thepatterns, what's the opportunity
been, what opportunity did Imiss and what opportunities do I
have for the future?
(27:04):
And it's when lenders are ableto make that switch to the
future that they start gettingexcited about it, because it's
no longer an eye roll, it's a.
This is my strategy for growth,whether that be growth first in
mortgage, but also growth withmembers.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Right, and I think you brought up several key
points right.
This is not just a mortgagething.
Yes, yes, it's Home MortgageDisclosure Act right, and I
fully respect that.
But the entire credit union canleverage this right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
You can back in If you look at this data report and
you map it out and you look atthe census traction.
In many ways you could reverseengineer where you need to open
a branch.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
A hundred and thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Not only that.
You know marketing shouldleverage this for strategic
initiatives.
Right, you know complianceshould use this in everything
that they do.
Right, mortgage, obviously,product development, I mean you
name it.
I mean so, right now you havebranch operations, you have
(28:15):
marketing, you have compliance,you have mortgage.
I mean everyone within thecredit union basically has a
stake in this reporting.
But all too often, again, thecredit unions are not looking at
this.
I mean it's just all right.
Well, again, let's just file itand be done with it.
(28:36):
And it's not worth it.
And I don't get it whatever,it's not worth my time.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But I think it goes back to that.
You know, what does it tell meabout?
Like that, you know, I thinkyou've heard me say that it's
the.
We're running a sprint in amarathon and we need past,
present and future data.
Like again, I say, it's likepeople, markets and in this
industry, it's like a personit's what's happened influences
what's happening today, but thefuture is also influencing
(29:07):
what's happening today.
So you can't separate.
You have to have this continuum.
And the way you start with thatbaseline, where you start using
it and starting to make adifference, is with that pattern
, historical data.
But it allows you to.
It's a complete enough data setthat it allows you to start
setting goals, and that could bea goal for the institution, it
could be a goal for a loanofficer, but it gives a starting
(29:30):
point and that's something ingeneral.
Lenders haven't beenparticularly forward-thinking
because they thought there's noway to predict interest rates,
so you can't predict what'sgoing to happen.
The data, when you look at it,are not suggestive.
That's why we have our forecast.
But when you look at that ideaof what happened what did we
(29:51):
miss and how can we make sure wedon't miss it for the future
you start thinking about goalsand people like goals because it
helps them identify of acertain borrower type, an actual
location or a particularproduct segment.
(30:16):
You have so many paths.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right, but interest rate only takes you so far.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Right so being able to predict interest rates?
We can't solve for far.
Absolutely Right.
So being able to predictinterest rates, you know we
can't solve for that.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right, you know we can.
You know we can solve forinventory, we can solve for the
availability of products, we cansolve for theability of the
individual loan, right.
But we can't solve for interestrates, right?
(30:55):
So what we can do is go into adiverse community, we'll say
predominantly Hispanic community, because that's what the census
tract tells us.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Right and build a relationship within that
community, an area that wehaven't had a relationship with
in the past.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
One that we should do better in, regardless of
interest rate, and build arelationship and we lend and you
know what?
The fact that we're in therebuild a strong relationship.
They'll come to us Because wehave a strong relationship and
we build trust.
We make again, we're notsolving for interest rate, but
(31:42):
we're making it affordable andwe are making it.
We're helping them solve forthe inventory issue Again
affordability, access andinventory.
We're solving those threethings and we build that trust.
That's it, we're done.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you hit the four gaps that we
trust.
Education, credit and inventoryare the four major gaps and the
barriers that come.
You know, you said somethinginteresting about we can't solve
for credit or we can't solvefor interest rates, and that's
true.
But if you look historically,you know my dad wrote an article
this was 25 years ago and weupdated it.
(32:21):
We hardly had to change anywords.
That's how little things havechanged and it's that interest
rates don't buy mortgages.
You know particular financialindicators don't buy mortgages.
People buy mortgages andregardless of the interest rate,
people change jobs, they move,they have families.
So there's always going to be apurchase market.
(32:43):
The size of the purchase marketis going to be and who is
buying is going to be influencedmore by rate, but it's going to
be there.
Refi yeah, I think you're goingto see that with refi, but even
now there's so many more waysto leverage the equity in your
home for other financialpurposes that I don't.
You know.
Again, rate matters, but itdoesn't matter the way people
think it does, because you'realways.
(33:06):
You know life happens and whatyou said is so critical,
specifically with diverse andhistorically underserved
communities.
They have not built trust withbanks and if and I've seen this
with so many of my clients andI've seen it on the ground
working with you know, potentialhome buyers, if you are the
lender, the partner, thefinancial partner that comes to
(33:27):
the table listens and even ifthat's a you know, the financial
partner that comes to the tablelistens and even if that's a,
you know I'm going to, you'regoing to ready to have a loan in
six months, or it's a two year,three year plan, if you're that
lender, then you are going tohave a partner and then they
will have built trust thatwithin that community though,
the loyalty is incredible.
So you are not just building therelationship with the person
(33:49):
that's going to potentially buya home in the next six months.
You're building with thefamilies, you're building with
the communities, because theysay finally, hey, you know this
credit union, let's say I'll useBoeing, boeing, we can trust
them, you can trust them, theygot me the dream of home
ownership.
So this ends up becoming youknow you invest this much time
(34:13):
and you get, you know, fivetimes that back.
But you're still right that thattrust piece is huge.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And Boeing's a good example.
I mean, you know, the team overat Boeing has done an excellent
job of diversifying.
You know their entire lendingpractice.
Right, I think you and Rogerpresented you know, one event
you know it was fascinating whatthey've done Right, just
expanding to a more diversecommunity.
(34:40):
But anyways, I would love to,you know, go into more of that
and I feel like we probablycould.
But just for the sake of time,we have to stop Right, but we
have to start transitioning.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
No, we don't have to, Are you sure I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
we, we, we do, we do, we do.
But before we do last question,it's always the last question.
Actually, in the second to lastquestion I'm going to second to
last question Any finalthoughts on HMDA and the
importance and what creditunions should be doing or,
better yet, how credit unionscan leverage HMDA to their
(35:17):
success.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
So I think and I'm going to be clear here, and if
any IMBs, independent mortgagebanks are listening to this, you
should listen really hard,listening to this, you should
listen really hard.
I think that with lending theway it is now, with the change
in the regulatory environment,credit unions and community
banks have an incredibleopportunity to grow.
(35:40):
And I say take share, but Idon't mean it in that like we're
just going to fight to grow thepie, okay.
And here's why I think, if thatdata is used and that data is
used to find and fill gaps andcoverage, to better understand
who is and isn't being served,and then to set that path
forward, I think in the next twoto five years, it's an
(36:01):
incredible opportunity,specifically for credit unions,
because people need to bethinking about the whole person,
the whole household, the wholehousehold, and nobody does that
better than credit unions do.
So I encourage this not as acompliance strategy, as the
central growth strategy to usedata, whether it's start with
(36:22):
HMDA, then bring in these otherpieces, the demographics.
There's so many data piecesthat you can bring in and
develop strategies.
After that, you will seesuccess, I guarantee it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Okay, I love it.
Great final thoughts.
All right, real last questionoh no, no, no, this is an easy
one, all right.
So what keeps you going?
What keeps you motivated Again?
Going back to the people pieceagain, the podcast is all about,
you know people make a positiveimpact, but what keeps you
going?
What keeps you driving day in,day out?
(36:53):
What keeps you going?
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Equity, housing equity, the vision of my dad.
But it's really kind of like Iget to work with so many
wonderful practitioners andthrough that, you know, we meet
potential homebuyers,practitioners, and through that,
you know, we meet potentialhomebuyers.
Being a changemaker andwatching people really start to
achieve what they've hoped for,that keeps me going.
(37:18):
But mainly other practitioners,particularly practitioners who
are people of color the way thatthey get up out of bed, the way
that they don't complain, theway that they color, the way
that they get up out of bed, theway that they don't complain,
the way that they you know achallenge is put up.
We go around it.
I'm starting to be driven by myfellow changemakers and, just
at the end of the day, community, community is probably the
(37:40):
biggest thing you know.
I home ownership is that buthealthy communities just make
everybody's in that communityworld better.
And you know that's really whatit is Lots of pieces.
I get pretty emotional talkingabout it, so I think I'll stop
with that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Love it, absolutely love it.
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
Well, laird, it's time that wetransition to the second segment
of our podcast and for oursummer miniseries, we're just
sticking with the fan favoriteof dad jokes.
This is the most requestedsegment that we do.
We might as well just call itthe dad joke segment and forget
(38:19):
Jeopardy.
I think Justin would probablylike that we just dropped
Jeopardy, because he's like thechamp of losing.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
No, I still like.
I still like Jeopardy.
I mean, I like my five wins.
Don't take those from me yet.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Five wins out of all the episodes that we played.
Jeopardy has five wins, youknow, I think there's only been
six episodes.
That's not true.
There's been like 30 episodesof Jeopardy and he's only won
like five times.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
You know like, let me at least look good once.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, that's fair.
Alright, try, you know like,let me at least look good once.
Okay, all right, fine, allright.
So we're gonna do the mostrequested episode, most
requested segment of dad jokes.
So, lair, prior to therecording, I asked you to come
prepared with two to three dadjokes, but for the sake of time,
we're gonna stick with the two.
So here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna do you do two,justin does two, and then I'll
wrap up with two and then we'llclose out.
Sound good.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Perfect Fire away.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
First one my dog ate all the tiles in my Scrabble
game.
Last night I took him to thevet.
No word yet.
The other one is I'm going toget this one wrong.
A salesman approached me aboutbuying my coffin.
(39:33):
I told him I wasn't interestedbecause that's the last thing I
need.
That's what I got, that's good.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Good delivery Laird Thank you, you were worried
about it, you were worried aboutit.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It was good.
It was good delivery, laird,you were worried about it.
You were worried about it, itwas good.
Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
All right, justin hit it uh, why doesn't the sun need
to go to college?
Why, because it already hasmillions of degrees he's like,
that's important, I like thatall right's good.
Come on, that was a good one.
What's the only thing that canruin a Friday?
What, remembering it's Thursday.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
That's good.
That's good.
All right, I'll wrap up.
I started telling everyoneabout the benefits of eating
dried grapes.
It's all about raisingawareness, okay.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
The puns are the best .
Speaker 2 (40:35):
They sure are.
Which one, which one, which one?
Okay, why would a pig dressedin black never get bullied?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Because Batman has always sworn to protect Gotham.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Good ones.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Thanks, all right.
Well, that wraps up thisepisode's version of Dad Jokes
Laird.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do for for
Acuma and, of course, sharingyour valuable insights on Humda
and, of course, sharing yourvaluable insights on HMDA and I
would be remorse if I didn'tmention that.
You know IE Mergent.
It was a valuable member ofAcuma Services and Acuma members
(41:18):
receive an amazing discounts onthe services that you provide.
So again, thank you for being apartner in that.
Love it.
So again, thank you very muchfor being an amazing guest on
our summer mini series.
Love the conversation.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Likewise.
Thank you so much for having me, Peter.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Of course.
And Justin, thank you, Ofcourse.
My pleasure Absolutely.
And to close out, thank youagain to Consolidated Analytics
for sponsoring today's episodeand to all of you.
We know your time is valuable.
Thank you for tuning into thelatest episode of Acuma's On
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma On Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a
five-star rating For more greatepisodes and information.
Be sure to visit us online atacumaorg and to get the latest
updates.
Head over to our LinkedIn page.
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board of directors, its management staff or its
members.
The podcast discussionpresented is conversational in
nature and for generalinformation only.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Actors On Point podcast, a
series focused on sharing thestories of people who are making
a positive impact in the creditunion mortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Before we get to our episode,just a quick word from our
sponsor.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This episode is brought to you by Consolidated
Analytics, helping credit unionsmake smarter mortgage decisions
, from origination to servicingand beyond.
With expert valuation, riskmanagement and compliance
solutions, they provide theinsights you need to protect
your members and grow yourportfolio with confidence.
Whether it's due diligence or acollateral risk assessment,
(01:04):
they help you navigate themarket with ease.
Learn more atconsolidatedanalyticscom.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Welcome to the second episode of our Compliance
Summer miniseries, where eachepisode will feature an intimate
conversation with people who Iconsider to be experts in their
field and supporters of thecredit union movement.
As a reminder, with each ofthese episodes, it's our goal to
take a deep dive into variouscompliance topics that are
(01:30):
impacting and reshaping thecredit union mortgage industry.
Our next guest in theCompliance Miniseries is Laird
Nusuli, CEO with IE.
Merchant Laird, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I am good.
How are you, Peter?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I am good.
How are you, peter?
I am fantastic.
I'm excited for ourconversation today for a couple
reasons, and we talked aboutthis and I always sandbag, but
we talked about this topic andthe topic is Hamda, and I'm
always sandbagging a little bit,but it's a topic that I've
grown to better appreciate in myas my time as as president of
(02:12):
Acuma and I'm a.
That's all I'm going to giveaway for now, but I'm excited
that I brought you here, becauseI consider you to be one of the
foremost experts on the topic.
on the subject, on the act andso thank you very much for being
(02:34):
here.
You're very welcome, I'm happyto be, and so, before we get to
the meat and potatoes of theconversation, let's bring Justin
in, like we always do.
Justin the hawk, how are youdoing today?
And please tell us what is thelatest and greatest happening
over at Acoma?
I'm good, peter.
How are you Living the dream?
Thank you very much, awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
So I mean over here we finished up the first.
I like to say it's the firsthalf of the year for our
in-person events.
So, all of our workshops aredone, our summits are done,
annual registration I mean it'sbeen open since April.
It's not like it's a secret,but it has officially launched
again.
We do that in June every year,so relaunched a couple weeks ago
(03:19):
, so we're really excited.
The agenda we have, thespeakers that are lined up I
mean it's absolutely amazing, Ithink.
The after party.
I was listening to one of ourrecent episodes not too long ago
and the whole after partyconversation just had me
cracking up, because I don'tthink we've come up with another
name for it yet, I think.
(03:41):
I think we're still calling itthe after party.
That's happening on.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I don't know if we're going to call it anything
besides a pre after party.
I still like the idea of atailgate, but it's not a
tailgate because there's no cars.
But anyways, we'll figuresomething out.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
That's something that we could do.
Bring out the grills and stuff,like, have everybody have a pit
boss or something come out anddo some barbecue, yeah, but we
can't do that in Vegas, though.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I mean in Vegas.
We probably can get fun Like wecan do.
The Fountain Blue next year hasan awesome pool, so maybe do
like a pool party.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
There's something.
See, the wheels are turningwe're already planning 2026 and
we're not even, we haven't evenhad 2025 yet let's do it, but
annuals coming up.
It's going to be September 21stto the 24th.
It's going to be in Denver,colorado, so if you haven't
already, go to the websiteregister.
Come make your mark with us.
(04:43):
It's going to be a spectacularevent that you're not going to
want to miss lots of surprises Imean anybody's ever met you,
they know that you have sometricks up your sleeve always.
I mean, there there are somekiller surprises this year the
only, the one surprise I'm goingto say that we're very sad we
didn't do is you come riding inon a horse that would have been
(05:07):
epic.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So, laird, we tried, you know.
So the Broncos have like a realhorse.
They do what's it calledThunder, Thunder, thunder.
We tried getting Thunder thehorse, and the more we went down
the path it just seemed like areally bad idea and so we
(05:29):
stopped going down that path.
So, yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Yeah, so just to give everybody that idea.
If that was one surprise, justimagine what else we have in the
store.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, what were you?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
saying I was gonna say that would have been my
son's dream.
He's a broncos fan and you knowwe're horse people.
Um he, he if, bernard, if thathad materialized, that would
have been the most excitingthing to my son ever.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Thunder huh thunder, yeah, yeah well, if you can't
make it to annual, which will bevery sad if you don't make it
to annual, but if you can't makeit, don't, don't worry, we have
plenty of other things going on.
We have our marketing networkq3 meeting that will be coming
up next month uh, so be onlookout for information on that.
And then we have our webinarseries, our fast tracks and
(06:22):
inside tracks.
Those are happening year round.
And then then, lastly, ourfavorite, the on point podcast,
which just helps keep the funand learning going all year
round.
Awesome, thank you, justin.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Thank you All right, laird.
So again, as I mentioned, we'regoing to talk about HMDA.
But before we do that, I alwaysmention this and I always talk
about this, and we have to staywith the roots of the podcast
before we dive into humda.
This pod is based off of apeople piece and so, before we
even dive into humda, it's aboutsharing the stories of people
(06:59):
who are making a positive impactin the credit union mortgage
industry.
I consider you to be one ofthose people, and so the first
question out of the gate isalways the same, the last
question out of the gate isalways the same or to leave the
gates always the same, and thepodcast is always the same.
So first question is who islayered?
(07:20):
So that's the first questionbefore we get into Hamda, before
we get into the realconversation.
But the first question is whois Laird?
If you could, for those whodon't know, you share your story
.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Okay, I can do that.
So, laird Nasuli, I am the CEOof iEmergence founder, and I am
a passionate, purpose-drivenperson specifically around
closing the home ownership gap,and I inherited, along with my
(07:57):
husband, who is our COO, bernard, the company when my dad had a
lung transplant and,unfortunately, fought a lot of
challenges, and we lost him in2016.
With that being said, though,we've changed the focus of
iEmergent and have grown a lotwith information and data and
(08:18):
technology that really hasallowed us to reach out to
lenders of all sizes types,absolutely loving working with
credit unions because of themission-driven mentality.
Me, besides that, I have twochildren.
They're 12 and 15.
And I'm an avid, avid, avidequestrian, but I love data.
(08:42):
I love data not as much as myfamily or my horses, but I
really love the data.
So is that enough information?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I can, I can that's perfect, and you forgot to
mention that that Bernard is afellow commander's fan and I
appreciate that very much abouthim.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yes, I bet he appreciates that about you as
well.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, yes, I I I always appreciate a good
Commanders fan, especially whenI run into them, because I feel
like it's been a long time sincewe have something to be proud
of and we finally have somethingto be proud of.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Because there aren't enough Commanders fans in
Maryland already.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
There aren't, though.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I mean there are now, I mean now there.
I mean now there are, but nowthere are yeah everybody came
out of load works.
I mean, I've been, you know,commanders fan my whole life and
or you know whatever they usedto be called.
But the thing is is that Iremember going to games and
(09:46):
there were more fans of theopposing team at that stadium
and it was just heartbreaking.
Now, when you go to games,there's more commanders fans and
that is a good thing to see.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Anyways, did you know that we named our dog rigs
after john riggan?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
that is awesome.
That is awesome, that, that'samazing.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
That's good, good, good name good yeah, big part of
bernard's background in lifeand um.
I think he would have felt yourpain, but it's certainly
experiencing your joy right now.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Where is it?
Hold on, you can't see itbecause it's not a good
signature Um Daryl green.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Oh, oh, that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And for those, and obviously this is an audio only,
but I just held up like a mini,mini Redskins helmet, you know
old school Redskins helmetthat's signed by Daryl green, so
, um, anyways, I digress.
So where?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
yes.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Focus on the conversation of Hamda.
So you and I talked about thispre-recording and so the reason
why we selected this topicbecause, yes, hamda's been
around for a very long time andHamda is just one of those
things that we do on an annualbasis.
But here's the thing I've cometo appreciate HMDA during my
(11:29):
time here as president of Acuma,more and more every single year
, and I think it's for moreattention brought on credit
unions by big banks, communitybanks, for various reasons.
If you think about the taxexemption for credit unions, I
(11:54):
think you could easily tie itback to HMDA.
Hmda very much holds hands withfair lending.
If you look at recent redliningcases, you could easily tie it
back with HMDA.
And so I've come to appreciatethe need to understand HMDA,
your data, more and more.
And for me, having sat in ourlisteners' about almost three
(12:21):
and a half years ago just shy ofthree and a half years ago you
know, for me, you know the needto file HMDA on an annual basis.
It was just a necessary evilthat we filed and we forgot
about to the following year,that's all it was Just.
Oh great, it's March again.
Let's follow our HMDA and let'sdo it and get it off our plate
(12:45):
and let's get back to closingloans.
Right, there was no analysis,there was no deep dive, there
was nothing about us looking atthe actual data.
Not only that, it wasn't justmortgage.
There was nothing from thecompliance department.
There was nothing that therewas no look back from a fair
(13:06):
lending review Nothing.
And I'm going to take it onestep further Again.
I said this before Hindsight's20-20.
Hindsight's 2020.
Thinking back to my communitybank days, you know, I wish I
would have shown moreappreciation for my compliance
officers time when she pulled meinto her office, because I was,
(13:32):
you know, the head of ops for amortgage division for a
community bank, and whenever wedid that fair lending review,
which is really based off ofHamda, I really wish I would
have shown her more appreciationwhen she would just kind of
walk us through our fair lendingreview, because I just sat in
(13:55):
her office and just rolled myeyes and basically said what do
you want me to do?
Like, the data is the data and Iwould just pretty much be
snarky the whole time.
Right, but there's so much wecan learn from this data and I
truly think as though,regardless of size.
I truly think as though,regardless of size, credit
(14:24):
unions can learn a lot from ourdata, and we're not leveraging
enough.
Not only that, we're not usingit to our advantage, and people
are using it against us, andpeople are using it against us,
and so that's why we're havingthis conversation on HMDA,
because it's such a vital toolfor us.
So, but before we talk abouthow we can leverage this tool,
(14:45):
let's talk about HMDA itself.
So you're the expert.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So walk us through HMDA.
So HMDA Home MortgageDisclosure Act data really is
(15:20):
the deliverable that resultedfrom a law, like you said,
consistent data at a loan levelor actually an application level
for all residential mortgageapplications and originations,
and it's changed a bit over theyears.
We've been working with itsince 1999 is actually the first
year that we have data and Iwill say that in 2018, the data
became far more robust,reporting really improved and
(15:41):
your abilities or the abilitiesof institutions to use it.
Not only you know kind of likeyou said, peter, to you know a
half-do and a protection youknow as a sort of a shield.
It can be used as a swordbecause it is actually really
great, even though it'sretroactive looking.
It is really great for lookingat and setting goals for the
(16:03):
future, but part of that isbetter now because of the
robustness of the data.
So really it tracks a number ofthings on the loan.
It's focusing on the loanitself.
You know what's the rate spread, what's the application I
should say Rate spread, lender,loan size, points collected so
(16:27):
you really get a completepicture of what a loan looks
like and you get a relativelygood picture about what the
borrower looks like relativelygood picture about what the
borrower looks like.
And when you put all of thattogether in the LAR which is
like the raw data set, is calledthe LAR, which is the loan
application record when you lookat that data at an aggregate
(16:48):
basis whether it's for just youknow if you have a small
footprint for the US, for aparticular census tract you
really learn about lenders,products and you learn about
markets, and that market pieceis one of the ones that I think
has been left off the table.
You know so often what HMDA is.
(17:09):
The analysis is how are wedoing compared to our peers?
And it ends with that.
That is where I think there'sthat loss of really valuable
information.
To, in a sense, take thatconversation you had with your
compliance person and unify itwith sales, and it's really in
(17:30):
how you look at all of the dataon its own as its own great
source, because one of thethings about it because it is
collected annually and it iscollected in a very you know,
completely consistent mannerit's clean data.
As far as data go, I mean wecould.
There is data out there fromrecorder's offices where you can
find out, you know, informationon loans, but it has none of
(17:54):
the rigor around it ofconsistency that HMDA does, and
that is what is so criticalabout it, for so many different
reasons.
But the other piece that itadds, again away from the peer
group look at compliance.
It also adds if you look at itover time, even though it's
(18:17):
retroactive, and I can talkabout how it retroactively
influences the data that wecreate or provide that's
proactive, that's a forecast.
But if you look at itretroactively, you can see
patterns in it.
You know, for us, we look atpatterns.
In every census tract, in everymarket has a pattern.
(18:38):
And what's interesting is, eventhough we think we can't
predict mortgages or whereoriginations will be, we can
predict those patterns.
And when you take thosepatterns and you use what you've
learned from HMDA and you tiethat with demographic data, you
do get a better idea about whatthe future could look like.
That with demographic data, youdo get a better idea about what
(18:59):
the future could look like.
But that again, what is sovaluable about Humdell looking
backward is it really is a youknow time series.
I guess it's a blueprint forwhat is happening competitively
and how the industry is changing.
And since it's relativelysticky because you only get it
annually.
It has enough consistency thatreally start informing a
(19:23):
baseline just a baseline thoughfor strategy moving forward.
You know it is.
It's not easy to collect.
I'm sure that you know, peter,that's probably part of the
reason you rolled your eyes.
I mean it's to collect.
I'm sure that you know, peter,that's probably part of the
reason you rolled your eyes.
I mean it has to be veryspecific.
It's reported by nearly alllenders.
There are lenders that areexempt and they just raised the
(19:44):
threshold.
I think it's a hundredtransactions now, and so you
also don't get any informationfrom brokers on it, because it's
really reported by the lenderboth the correspondent and the
broker lender but it is thelender that's recording it.
So you get a lot of informationat a market level.
(20:05):
You get a lot of informationabout trends at a sort of an
industry level, you get a lot ofinformation about your own
institution and you get a lot ofinformation from Hamda on the
competitive landscape.
Those things together make itvery valuable internally.
On the external side, though,it really is what helped
(20:25):
maintain transparency.
As you said, this informs fairlending practices.
That was its whole point.
It does that well.
Also, you know, forinstitutions that have CRA
responsibilities.
It's also a fantastic way to totrack it and, again, part of
that is, even though it's a lotof work, it has tremendous value
(20:47):
because it's so structured andconsistent.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, so it's.
It is a lot of work, right, buthere's the thing and I'm not
trying to pause for dramaticeffect or anything like that,
but it's a lot of work, right.
But for me, just looking andagain, I'm looking in from afar,
(21:13):
right, I'm not part of theprocess.
I'm looking in from afar, right, I'm not, I'm not part of the
process, I'm not part of amortgage operations right now,
right, but a lot of creditunions, let's be honest,
volume's not up, right, volume'sdown, right.
Yes, if you look at what FreddieMac is saying, mba is saying
(21:37):
you know a lot of economists aresaying you know we should end
the year better than 2024.
So 2025 should be better thanlast year, right, but still
volume's down.
You know, if you have enoughtime to implement a new
technology?
You still not.
I'm sorry, not every single oneof your resources within your
(21:57):
mortgage department is atcapacity, right.
You still have time to look atthe data, right, and I think you
can agree that if you just getinto the routine of doing it,
the routine comes easier themore you do it.
(22:19):
For sure, Right, you knowwhether you're looking at.
You know the public data dataset or your internal data set.
I don't mean, I guess theinternal data set is probably
better for your, for your ownreview, because there's a lot
more information, Right, but whywouldn't you want to go down
(22:46):
that path?
I mean, it's if it's, if it's adaily routine or a monthly
routine or something like that.
I mean, why wouldn't you wantto go down that path?
I mean, if it's a daily routineor a monthly routine or
something like that.
I mean why wouldn't you?
I mean because you know whatyour competitors you know bank
lobbyists are using your publicdata set against you.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Why wouldn't you want to get into the routine,
regardless of size?
Why wouldn't you want to knowthat right?
I?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
think a lot of it comes from the fact that there's
so many data points that peopledon't know where to start.
They don't know which datapoints matter, how to use it.
It's all there, and in our workwe so often have to show people
what they should be looking at.
So I think that's part of thewhy, wouldn't you?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But you know it's a couple of things, right?
Yes, hmda can help you figureout.
Okay, where am I lending, right?
Where and who am I lending to?
Am I lending equitably acrossthe board, across the spectrum?
Right.
But also, am I lending in myfootprint, right?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And if I'm not OK, I need to make some strategic
decisions to start movingtowards that footprint right.
I think that's the mostimportant thing right.
And I think, if you look at themost recent redlining case, I
(24:22):
think that's a perfect exampleof how the data wasn't being
leveraged.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
For that exact purpose, right, or am I off base
?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
No, you're absolutely right.
I mean, the location of it isso important.
You know we map it.
It's very, very easy to seebecause, even though the public
data set doesn't have a dot, youknow a point it doesn't have an
address.
It has a census tract.
If you're looking at your data,you have the address, so you
can plot it on a map, but youget a visual representation of
(24:56):
whether you're representing yourfootprint.
It's a very good way, justvisually, to start looking at
concerns ahead of time about youknow fair lending and redlining
ahead of time about you knowfair lending and redlining.
But the piece that I think getslost is that you are looking at
your data to see what you'recovering, but by looking at who
(25:17):
isn't being served, for example,if you look at the market and
you look at the applicationsthat are denied, withdrawn or
incomplete mainly the denials,though and you do more of a deep
dive, you can get some greatideas for products, because it's
also showing you where there'snot untapped need, but need
(25:38):
that's there.
If someone went to the extentthey think they're close enough
on the home buyer journey tohave an application, but they
were denied.
If we get a sense of why theywere denied and we start looking
at solutions that wouldovercome that one denial or two
denials I mean, it's thepatterns of that.
Then you start thinking, hey,you know there's nobody here
(25:58):
that's able to lend to this withthis like program for this.
You know this type of borrowerand I think that's what's one of
the things that's lost.
The same thing, time is, if youlook and you use that beginning
idea of are we lending in ourfootprint, and you find what we
call gaps in coverage, like bigholes, whether it's a segment
hole or it's a actual geographichole.
(26:22):
The data give you a startingpoint for saying why and you can
look at, well, what productsare we using.
You know what are the again,what are the patterns that we're
seeing.
You can use the public datafrom HMDA.
You can use your data in realtime and then you can figure out
how to use your real data thatyou're going to submit to HMDA
(26:43):
with some of the more currentcounty property data, and that
mix of all of those togetherpaints a very clear picture
about you know what are thepatterns, what's the opportunity
been, what opportunity did Imiss and what opportunities do I
have for the future?
(27:04):
And it's when lenders are ableto make that switch to the
future that they start gettingexcited about it, because it's
no longer an eye roll, it's a.
This is my strategy for growth,whether that be growth first in
mortgage, but also growth withmembers.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Right, and I think you brought up several key
points right.
This is not just a mortgagething.
Yes, yes, it's Home MortgageDisclosure Act right, and I
fully respect that.
But the entire credit union canleverage this right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
You can back in If you look at this data report and
you map it out and you look atthe census traction.
In many ways you could reverseengineer where you need to open
a branch.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
A hundred and thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Not only that.
You know marketing shouldleverage this for strategic
initiatives.
Right, you know complianceshould use this in everything
that they do.
Right, mortgage, obviously,product development, I mean you
name it.
I mean so, right now you havebranch operations, you have
(28:15):
marketing, you have compliance,you have mortgage.
I mean everyone within thecredit union basically has a
stake in this reporting.
But all too often, again, thecredit unions are not looking at
this.
I mean it's just all right.
Well, again, let's just file itand be done with it.
(28:36):
And it's not worth it.
And I don't get it whatever,it's not worth my time.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But I think it goes back to that.
You know, what does it tell meabout?
Like that, you know, I thinkyou've heard me say that it's
the.
We're running a sprint in amarathon and we need past,
present and future data.
Like again, I say, it's likepeople, markets and in this
industry, it's like a personit's what's happened influences
what's happening today, but thefuture is also influencing
(29:07):
what's happening today.
So you can't separate.
You have to have this continuum.
And the way you start with thatbaseline, where you start using
it and starting to make adifference, is with that pattern
, historical data.
But it allows you to.
It's a complete enough data setthat it allows you to start
setting goals, and that could bea goal for the institution, it
could be a goal for a loanofficer, but it gives a starting
(29:30):
point and that's something ingeneral.
Lenders haven't beenparticularly forward-thinking
because they thought there's noway to predict interest rates,
so you can't predict what'sgoing to happen.
The data, when you look at it,are not suggestive.
That's why we have our forecast.
But when you look at that ideaof what happened what did we
(29:51):
miss and how can we make sure wedon't miss it for the future
you start thinking about goalsand people like goals because it
helps them identify of acertain borrower type, an actual
location or a particularproduct segment.
(30:16):
You have so many paths.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right, but interest rate only takes you so far.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Right so being able to predict interest rates?
We can't solve for far.
Absolutely Right.
So being able to predictinterest rates, you know we
can't solve for that.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right, you know we can.
You know we can solve forinventory, we can solve for the
availability of products, we cansolve for theability of the
individual loan, right.
But we can't solve for interestrates, right?
(30:55):
So what we can do is go into adiverse community, we'll say
predominantly Hispanic community, because that's what the census
tract tells us.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Right and build a relationship within that
community, an area that wehaven't had a relationship with
in the past.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
One that we should do better in, regardless of
interest rate, and build arelationship and we lend and you
know what?
The fact that we're in therebuild a strong relationship.
They'll come to us Because wehave a strong relationship and
we build trust.
We make again, we're notsolving for interest rate, but
(31:42):
we're making it affordable andwe are making it.
We're helping them solve forthe inventory issue Again
affordability, access andinventory.
We're solving those threethings and we build that trust.
That's it, we're done.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you hit the four gaps that we
trust.
Education, credit and inventoryare the four major gaps and the
barriers that come.
You know, you said somethinginteresting about we can't solve
for credit or we can't solvefor interest rates, and that's
true.
But if you look historically,you know my dad wrote an article
this was 25 years ago and weupdated it.
(32:21):
We hardly had to change anywords.
That's how little things havechanged and it's that interest
rates don't buy mortgages.
You know particular financialindicators don't buy mortgages.
People buy mortgages andregardless of the interest rate,
people change jobs, they move,they have families.
So there's always going to be apurchase market.
(32:43):
The size of the purchase marketis going to be and who is
buying is going to be influencedmore by rate, but it's going to
be there.
Refi yeah, I think you're goingto see that with refi, but even
now there's so many more waysto leverage the equity in your
home for other financialpurposes that I don't.
You know.
Again, rate matters, but itdoesn't matter the way people
think it does, because you'realways.
(33:06):
You know life happens and whatyou said is so critical,
specifically with diverse andhistorically underserved
communities.
They have not built trust withbanks and if and I've seen this
with so many of my clients andI've seen it on the ground
working with you know, potentialhome buyers, if you are the
lender, the partner, thefinancial partner that comes to
(33:27):
the table listens and even ifthat's a you know, the financial
partner that comes to the tablelistens and even if that's a,
you know I'm going to, you'regoing to ready to have a loan in
six months, or it's a two year,three year plan, if you're that
lender, then you are going tohave a partner and then they
will have built trust thatwithin that community though,
the loyalty is incredible.
So you are not just building therelationship with the person
(33:49):
that's going to potentially buya home in the next six months.
You're building with thefamilies, you're building with
the communities, because theysay finally, hey, you know this
credit union, let's say I'll useBoeing, boeing, we can trust
them, you can trust them, theygot me the dream of home
ownership.
So this ends up becoming youknow you invest this much time
(34:13):
and you get, you know, fivetimes that back.
But you're still right that thattrust piece is huge.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And Boeing's a good example.
I mean, you know, the team overat Boeing has done an excellent
job of diversifying.
You know their entire lendingpractice.
Right, I think you and Rogerpresented you know, one event
you know it was fascinating whatthey've done Right, just
expanding to a more diversecommunity.
(34:40):
But anyways, I would love to,you know, go into more of that
and I feel like we probablycould.
But just for the sake of time,we have to stop Right, but we
have to start transitioning.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
No, we don't have to, Are you sure I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
we, we, we do, we do, we do.
But before we do last question,it's always the last question.
Actually, in the second to lastquestion I'm going to second to
last question Any finalthoughts on HMDA and the
importance and what creditunions should be doing or,
better yet, how credit unionscan leverage HMDA to their
(35:17):
success.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
So I think and I'm going to be clear here, and if
any IMBs, independent mortgagebanks are listening to this, you
should listen really hard,listening to this, you should
listen really hard.
I think that with lending theway it is now, with the change
in the regulatory environment,credit unions and community
banks have an incredibleopportunity to grow.
(35:40):
And I say take share, but Idon't mean it in that like we're
just going to fight to grow thepie, okay.
And here's why I think, if thatdata is used and that data is
used to find and fill gaps andcoverage, to better understand
who is and isn't being served,and then to set that path
forward, I think in the next twoto five years, it's an
(36:01):
incredible opportunity,specifically for credit unions,
because people need to bethinking about the whole person,
the whole household, the wholehousehold, and nobody does that
better than credit unions do.
So I encourage this not as acompliance strategy, as the
central growth strategy to usedata, whether it's start with
(36:22):
HMDA, then bring in these otherpieces, the demographics.
There's so many data piecesthat you can bring in and
develop strategies.
After that, you will seesuccess, I guarantee it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Okay, I love it.
Great final thoughts.
All right, real last questionoh no, no, no, this is an easy
one, all right.
So what keeps you going?
What keeps you motivated Again?
Going back to the people pieceagain, the podcast is all about,
you know people make a positiveimpact, but what keeps you
going?
What keeps you driving day in,day out?
(36:53):
What keeps you going?
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Equity, housing equity, the vision of my dad.
But it's really kind of like Iget to work with so many
wonderful practitioners andthrough that, you know, we meet
potential homebuyers,practitioners, and through that,
you know, we meet potentialhomebuyers.
Being a changemaker andwatching people really start to
achieve what they've hoped for,that keeps me going.
(37:18):
But mainly other practitioners,particularly practitioners who
are people of color the way thatthey get up out of bed, the way
that they don't complain, theway that they color, the way
that they get up out of bed, theway that they don't complain,
the way that they you know achallenge is put up.
We go around it.
I'm starting to be driven by myfellow changemakers and, just
at the end of the day, community, community is probably the
(37:40):
biggest thing you know.
I home ownership is that buthealthy communities just make
everybody's in that communityworld better.
And you know that's really whatit is Lots of pieces.
I get pretty emotional talkingabout it, so I think I'll stop
with that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Love it, absolutely love it.
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
Well, laird, it's time that wetransition to the second segment
of our podcast and for oursummer miniseries, we're just
sticking with the fan favoriteof dad jokes.
This is the most requestedsegment that we do.
We might as well just call itthe dad joke segment and forget
(38:19):
Jeopardy.
I think Justin would probablylike that we just dropped
Jeopardy, because he's like thechamp of losing.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
No, I still like.
I still like Jeopardy.
I mean, I like my five wins.
Don't take those from me yet.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Five wins out of all the episodes that we played.
Jeopardy has five wins, youknow, I think there's only been
six episodes.
That's not true.
There's been like 30 episodesof Jeopardy and he's only won
like five times.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
You know like, let me at least look good once.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, that's fair.
Alright, try, you know like,let me at least look good once.
Okay, all right, fine, allright.
So we're gonna do the mostrequested episode, most
requested segment of dad jokes.
So, lair, prior to therecording, I asked you to come
prepared with two to three dadjokes, but for the sake of time,
we're gonna stick with the two.
So here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna do you do two,justin does two, and then I'll
wrap up with two and then we'llclose out.
Sound good.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Perfect Fire away.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
First one my dog ate all the tiles in my Scrabble
game.
Last night I took him to thevet.
No word yet.
The other one is I'm going toget this one wrong.
A salesman approached me aboutbuying my coffin.
(39:33):
I told him I wasn't interestedbecause that's the last thing I
need.
That's what I got, that's good.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Good delivery Laird Thank you, you were worried
about it, you were worried aboutit.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It was good.
It was good delivery, laird,you were worried about it.
You were worried about it, itwas good.
Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
All right, justin hit it uh, why doesn't the sun need
to go to college?
Why, because it already hasmillions of degrees he's like,
that's important, I like thatall right's good.
Come on, that was a good one.
What's the only thing that canruin a Friday?
What, remembering it's Thursday.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
That's good.
That's good.
All right, I'll wrap up.
I started telling everyoneabout the benefits of eating
dried grapes.
It's all about raisingawareness, okay.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
The puns are the best .
Speaker 2 (40:35):
They sure are.
Which one, which one, which one?
Okay, why would a pig dressedin black never get bullied?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Because Batman has always sworn to protect Gotham.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Good ones.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Thanks, all right.
Well, that wraps up thisepisode's version of Dad Jokes
Laird.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do for for
Acuma and, of course, sharingyour valuable insights on Humda
and, of course, sharing yourvaluable insights on HMDA and I
would be remorse if I didn'tmention that.
You know IE Mergent.
It was a valuable member ofAcuma Services and Acuma members
(41:18):
receive an amazing discounts onthe services that you provide.
So again, thank you for being apartner in that.
Love it.
So again, thank you very muchfor being an amazing guest on
our summer mini series.
Love the conversation.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Likewise.
Thank you so much for having me, Peter.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Of course.
And Justin, thank you, Ofcourse.
My pleasure Absolutely.
And to close out, thank youagain to Consolidated Analytics
for sponsoring today's episodeand to all of you.
We know your time is valuable.
Thank you for tuning into thelatest episode of Acuma's On
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma On Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a
five-star rating For more greatepisodes and information.
Be sure to visit us online atacumaorg and to get the latest
updates.
Head over to our LinkedIn page.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com