May 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Digital transformation starts with people, not technology. Emma Roloff, Director of North American Property and Casualty Sales, shares her journey from aspiring teacher to insurance technology leader. She emphasizes a people-first approach to digital transformation, advocating for technology to enable process improvements rather than dictate them.
Emma discusses the challenges carriers face, such as balancing backend system improvements with customer-facing experiences, and provides practical advice on engaging stakeholders, choosing the right technology partners, and fostering digital literacy. Her insights on change management highlight the importance of converting skeptics into advocates to accelerate adoption.
Season 9 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This rebroadcasted episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Sam Neer, Group Product Manager with Berkley Alternative Market Technology (BAMTECH).
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkleyindustrial.com.
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg Hamlin (00:14):
Hello everybody and welcome to Adjusted.
I'm your host, Greg Hamlin,coming at you from Sweet Home,
Alabama and Berkeley IndustrialComp.
And I'm excited to share withyou this rebroadcast.
This episode is with my friend,Emma Roloff, who I met at a
technology conference a numberof years ago and we had a great
(00:35):
discussion about how technologyis transforming the industry and
how does a carrier or a leadermap out the process that takes
your company from where it isnow to a new level through
technology and the importance ofgaining cooperation with the
employees, gaining buy-in,thinking through all of the
(00:57):
steps so that we don't havebumps along the way.
I really enjoyed our discussiontogether and I hope you do as
well.
Way, I really enjoyed ourdiscussion together and I hope
you do as well.
Remind you to like, follow andshare this podcast and love it
if you could go on to favoriteplatform and leave us a
five-star review so that otherscan find their way to this
(01:18):
podcast and enjoy the samecontent you're enjoying.
So, with that, I'll remind youto do right, think differently
and don't forget to care andenjoy.
Welcome to Adjusted.
I'm your host, Greg Hamlin,coming at you from beautiful
Birmingham, Alabama and BerkeleyIndustrial Comp.
And with me is my co-host today, Sam Neer.
(01:40):
Sam, do you want to introduceyourself today, hey?
Sam Neer (01:42):
everybody, sam Neer, coming from Raleigh, north
Carolina, where it's gotten waytoo hot, way too fast, group
product manager with BerkeleyAlternative Markets Tech and
really excited about today'sconversation.
Greg Hamlin (01:53):
Yeah, it's going to be fun.
We had Sam on as a guestrecently and since today we're
going to be talking aboutdigital transformation, I
thought I'd bring him on to beour expert co-host.
So he's here today and with us.
We have our special guest today, emma Roloff.
She's the director of NorthAmerican Property and Casualty
Sales and host of her ownYouTube series called Leading
(02:16):
Change.
So, emma, we're glad to haveyou here.
Ema Roloff (02:19):
Thank you for having me, guys.
I'm excited for theconversation.
Greg Hamlin (02:22):
Well, I am too.
I had the opportunity to do ashort interview with you on your
podcast, so I thought it wastime to turn the tables, so glad
to have you.
I always like to start byasking this question how did you
end up in the industry?
Because I'm guessing, like whenyou were in your career day, in
like second grade, you weren'tlike this is it?
I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to be in theinsurance space, am I right?
Ema Roloff (02:48):
You are right.
I wish that I was one of thelike.
I've met a couple of peoplethat actually do have those
stories and now I'm almost alittle jealous of them because
it's like so much more uniquethan everybody else who kind of
stumbled their way in.
But you're right.
So I actually, back to thosesecond grade days, was planning
on being a teacher and went toschool for education.
So I actually have acertification to teach sixth
(03:10):
through 12th grade socialstudies, okay, and I started
that down that path and wasplanning to do that and really
truthfully, it was because Ireally enjoyed public speaking
and liked kids.
And you know, that was kind ofthe initial like this is a great
career for you, go for it.
And so that was just kind oflike my operating assumption for
(03:31):
a long time.
And then again, kind of liketwisty, windy to get me here,
but I ended up taking a positionout of college as a corporate
trainer.
So I had done a couple ofinternships while I was
finishing out my studentteaching and realized like hey,
I actually kind of like businessand there's a lot of stuff
that's applicable to what I doin the classroom.
(03:51):
It's just bigger people thatyou're teaching.
Now I was like, okay, I kind oflike this, and it's not
necessarily that I just lovekids, I like people.
And so that was kind of myfirst step into the business
world.
And I did that for a couple ofyears and then was ready for a
change and wanted to get intotechnology.
And I always joke that myhusband, my father-in-law and my
(04:12):
husband's uncle sat me down foran intervention one year at
Thanksgiving and they told me togo into sales.
And at the time that wassomething that sounded like
really not appealing to me.
But they were like, if you findsomething that you're
passionate about and you'reactually helping people solve
problems while you're in sales,you're going to really enjoy it
and you can do all of the thingsthat you're good at from like
(04:34):
your other positions and yourother jobs that you've had in
the past.
And so I applied to one salesjob to get them to be quiet and
ended up finding a verywonderful company that was
focused on process automationand enterprise software
implementations and I was withthem for about 8 years and
really caught the bug fortransformation and technology.
(04:58):
And finally, this really windypath to lead us into insurance
when I was like 24 years old,just took this job, brand new to
tech, brand new to sales.
They said you know what?
There's a big need for processautomation within the insurance
industry, but we don't haveanybody that's a specialist in
that area.
Would you like to learn aboutit?
And the answer to that is like,well, you're giving me an
(05:20):
opportunity.
So, yeah, I'm going to take itand I'll figure it out.
From here and over the courseof the last handful of years, I
would say that the insuranceindustry has done what it does
to a lot of people.
It's pulled me in Again myaffinity for people.
There's so many wonderfulpeople and the business is so
relationship driven that I feellike now I'm stuck and I'm just
not going to make my way out.
Sam Neer (05:41):
You can't get out you can't get out.
That's a lot like your story,sam too, because I think you
kind of got pulled in sidewaystoo.
Yeah, very much.
So again it wasn't like again,my podcast a few episodes ago
wasn't like I grew up thinkingabout insurance, but again you
start getting in here and youstart getting the people, you
get seeing the change that'sbeing affected and, like you
said, emma, it's you know, onceyou're in you can't see yourself
going anywhere else, which isthe exciting part about it.
(06:03):
It so love the journey to getthere Right.
And the one application, justthe one application, and then
the rest is history correct.
Ema Roloff (06:09):
Yep exactly.
Greg Hamlin (06:11):
So the big topic for today is digital
transformation, and I know thatthe concept of digital
transformation is being talkedabout all the time and I don't
know if a lot of our listenerseven know what that is or what
that means in relation to theinsurance industry, so I thought
maybe we just start there.
What do you define digitaltransformation as, and where is
(06:34):
it fit in the insurance industry?
Ema Roloff (06:36):
Yeah, so I would say my definition when you Google
it.
Part of the reason that it'sthis big, ambiguous buzz term is
if you look at Wikipedia, itjust says process optimization
through the use of technology,which is a great place to get
started.
But where I really look at itand I'll give you the soundbite
(06:57):
definition and then dive in alittle bit further into why I'm
so passionate about the way thatI phrase this so to me it is
making your people moreefficient and improving your
processes through technology andI lead with people in process,
because those should ultimatelybe the area of focus and we're
(07:17):
enabling them with technology.
And when you start to kind ofagain unpack this idea of people
and process tied to it, thereason that I think it gets so
fuzzy is because we start tobring in these really big
intangible ideas like improvingour culture or customer
experience, again through thislens of how do we improve it
(07:40):
with technology, and thosethings are kind of buzz terms in
their own right as well, and soit gets really muddy when you
start to think about it throughthat lens of like we're enabling
these big, intangible thingsthrough technology, and that's
why I always like to bring itback to people first and
foremost in all of it, andbecause we get tricked by the
(08:03):
use of digital on the front ofthe term.
So we opt directly towardstechnology.
But if you go with asolution-led approach, you're
going to lose sight of the factthat your people or your
technology is being used bypeople.
Your customers are people, youremployees are people, your
partners and I can go on and onand on.
The people that are deployingit are people.
(08:24):
So it all comes back to thatidea and it's enabling that all
through technology and the toolsare there.
I promise that there'swonderful, and I mean maybe I
shouldn't say this as a softwaresalesperson, but there's a lot
of platforms that will meet yourneed if you focus on the people
and the process side of itfirst and you know what you're
(08:44):
actually trying to enable.
But if you lead on the peopleand the process side of it first
and you know what you'reactually trying to enable, but
if you lead with the technology,you forget about that other
stuff and then you getfrustrated that it didn't do
what you wanted it to do becauseyou started it with the wrong
part.
Sam Neer (08:55):
Yeah, I love that, emma.
I think it's really the idea ofextension beyond the software,
right, it's the idea of it's notjust you can all get saying the
program, the code, the lines ofcode, the product as a product
manager myself, it's like lookat the cool button and look what
they can do.
But how you go beyond that nextstep in the people-centered
approach or the human-centeredapproach, I think is really
awesome.
I think the build on that afollow-up question maybe is is
(09:19):
there anything else that extendsbesides the software?
I know you mentioned people andprocess, but have you found
anything else that helpscomplement the technology that
most people wouldn't think ofoff the bat?
Ema Roloff (09:30):
That's a good question.
I obviously just went on mymonologue about people, but,
coming from my starting point,within a process consulting
company, I cannot stress theimportance of also tying your
technology implementation toprocess improvement at the same
time, to your point again, wecan opt towards like look at
(09:51):
what this really cool button cando, but are we building a
button to do a step that'sunnecessary in the first place?
And I think that that questionsometimes gets sped past too.
And within the insuranceindustry, I guess I didn't
address this part of thequestion at the beginning of how
does it relate to our industry.
But when you look at theinsurance industry, we have this
(10:13):
concept that what we do is socomplex that there's no way we
can simplify it, and we havethis propensity to use that, I
think, as an excuse to keep usfrom asking the hard questions
of why are we doing it that wayanyhow, and is there a simpler
way for us to manage this?
Now don't get me wrong.
(10:33):
There are so many layers andthere is complexity.
We can't escape that, and partof that complexity comes from
things like regulation and allof the rest of that.
But I can't tell you how manytimes I've been in a meeting
where I've asked the question oflike okay, so why are we doing
it that way?
And someone will start to tellyou a story about like well, 25
(10:55):
years ago.
And you're like okay, well, Iget that, but have you thought
about maybe doing it differentlynow?
And so I mean again, I went onmy big people conversation, but
I also can't stress howimportant it is for you to
really truly stop and thinkabout what's the most effective
way that we should be managingthis and then bringing in the
(11:16):
technology to enable thatefficient process.
Greg Hamlin (11:19):
I couldn't agree more, emma, and what you said
really stood out to me in thatone of the employers that I
worked for in a different life.
I remember that people were somarried to a certain way we used
to do things.
The example I always gave islike if you had done everything
in Word and then I gave youExcel and then you tried to take
(11:40):
everything that was in thatWord document and put it in one
cell and you were frustratedthat it wasn't working the way
that you wanted it to.
It's like well, that's actuallynot how this tool works and
we're so married to doing itthis one way.
We're not even looking at thepossibility.
So I think that's hard forpeople to do, just in general,
as we get comfortable with howwe do things and then thinking
(12:02):
about it a different way can behard.
From your experience, where doyou think digital transformation
can make the largest impact?
Ema Roloff (12:09):
So I think, within again, going back to like kind
of where we're at within theinsurance industry, I think a
lot of carriers and this is notsaying that this is the wrong
approach, but a lot of carriersfelt intense pressure to improve
their customer experience.
And we're still seeing thattoday.
A lot of the conversations thatI'm having, whether it's
(12:31):
speaking at conferences ortalking to customers during
discovery and that kind of thing, it's this idea that we have to
have a digital first approachto customer experience and I
think that many carriers have atleast some component of a
digital experience on the frontend of how they're interacting
with their customers, becausethey were told that that was the
(12:52):
ultimate spot to start.
The Amazon effect is real.
We're all used to dealing withtechnology and if you didn't do
that, you'd probably be in a lotof trouble.
But where I think many, manycompanies have an opportunity
right now is on the back end andfixing what those processes
look like and improving theiremployee experience to
(13:12):
ultimately impact the customerexperience down the line.
Because, again, if you've doneall of this work and it's
massive lifts in many scenariosto build the digital experience
and integrate it back to theback end but if you're not also
in tandem looking at are weupdating those core systems that
are in the background ofeverything?
Do we have the appropriateintegrations and connections to
(13:36):
make this as seamless aspossible for our employees to be
effective?
There's still a lot of room foryou to improve that customer
experience by shortening yourclaims lifecycle with how you
manage things in the backend.
So I think that that is goingto be something that we start to
see, also tied to many of thethings that are just kind of
happening.
At a macro level.
I think we're out of the greatresignation but that mentality
(14:00):
of workers really seeking adifferent experience from their
jobs, whether that's remote workbut also inefficiencies.
I see a lot of stuff popping upand we could maybe go into a
different, but I do a lot onTikTok.
I create a lot of content there, I see comments there and then
also interacting with peoplewhen it's not tied to their
employer, and being in thatmanagement leadership side of
(14:21):
TikTok is very interestingbecause there's a lot of
conversations about people in mygeneration having zero ability
to deal with inefficiency andjust getting angry and deciding
to leave jobs because they can'thandle inefficient processes,
and so I think as we start tosee those younger generations
that are used to those seamlessexperiences as customers coming
(14:43):
into leadership positions.
We're going to see a shifttoward that seamless employee
experience being more importantas well.
Sam Neer (14:50):
Yeah, to really double-click on something you
said there, emma, I really likedwhat you said around, not just
the shiny veneer, not the Again.
Digital front-ends and thecustomer-first experience is
important we all agree on that,but sometimes what I'll say is
the non-scintillating way is thebackend right?
So the data processes, the APIs, the data transfers right, but
that's really what can impactthe things that you do think
(15:12):
about with speed Right now.
Again, we're blessed to be ableto have websites that load like
that.
So if you're waiting for liketwo seconds, or going back to
your TikTok example, if you'rewaiting, and it's waiting like
three seconds, the short formcontent this is a lifetime right
.
So it's sometimes the importanceof not necessarily having hey,
we've got the cool front end,which everyone likes to see, but
then if you hear it's takingtoo long or it's not integrating
(15:33):
, and now you have five of thesesystems, it all really does tie
together.
So I really liked what youdouble-clicked on that area.
Greg Hamlin (15:40):
What are some of the challenges of a digital
transformation?
I think you fit on a few ofthose, but I know that if you're
creating a roadmap as anorganization, realizing we need
to do some things different fromyour perspective.
What are some of the pitfallsor challenges that you've seen
that carriers go through?
Ema Roloff (15:56):
So I would say the first piece is maybe lacking a
strong vision at the leadershiplevel.
Now, that's not like into all ofthe details of exactly how we
execute on our digitaltransformation strategy, but
even just that clear vision fromyour leadership team of these
(16:18):
are the most important thingsand how we're going to enable
them through the use oftechnology, in a way that gives
each and every department leaderand each and every person in
the company a trendle to pullfrom of.
We're all steering in thisdirection and some companies do
that really, really well, andother companies will have the
(16:41):
imperative to digitallytransform.
Or we're going to become adigital carrier or we're going
to.
But that's too vague in the waythat it doesn't help your team
prioritize what's going to bemost important for you and it
doesn't help your team pull outtheir own individual initiatives
and then down to thatindividual level to make sure
(17:01):
everyone's going in the samedirection.
And if you just have a veryvague vision, what's going to
happen is everyone's going tointerpret that their own way and
each department is going tostart innovating in a silo, and
then what you're going to get?
Going back to a little bit ofthat conversation of lack of
integration and lack ofcontinuity, you're going to have
everybody going in these samedirections and then, just even
(17:24):
coming down to the IT level ofit, they might not even know all
the systems that are being used.
They might not even know what'shappening and that nasty little
shadow IT thing starts to pop up.
And so I think that all bubblesback up to that vision at the
top and it needs to be specificenough where everybody can use
it to start heading in the samedirection.
(17:46):
And then I would say that'sclosely tied to and already
ranted about people.
So here I go again.
But I think change managementis another piece that I'm very,
very, very passionate aboutbeing a part of a transformation
strategy and that ties reallyclosely to that vision.
So part of the reason that Ifeel so passionate about that
(18:08):
vision being something thatpeople can latch on to is your
team, every single person onyour team, needs to understand
what's in it for them if they'regoing to support an initiative,
and they can't do that if theydon't have the end vision in
mind and if they don't know howthat relates back to their job
and how it's going to improvetheir job, make their job easier
(18:35):
, help them, make more.
Whatever that what's in it forme statement is for that
individual, and I feel likeeverybody knows change
management is important andeverybody knows that they should
be focusing on how to helptheir people adapt.
But even just like theconversation that you were
having with like Word versusExcel that's attached to we have
a thought process, we'recreatures of habit and we're
(18:58):
scared of change because wedon't know what it means.
And if that change feelsthreatening, we're going to
resist it.
If that change feels like amandate, we're going to resist
it.
And so there's all of thesedifferent directions that if you
don't manage that changeappropriately across your team,
suddenly you're going to startto see all of these behaviors
(19:20):
and it's really easy to chalkthose behaviors up to like oh,
our team is so unwilling tochange when it's like well,
really, if you just did thepiece of making sure that they
understood where you're going,why you're going there as a
company, and then help themfigure out how it was going to
impact them, you probablywouldn't have this issue, and we
overcomplicate changemanagement sometimes too.
(19:41):
So I think it can be thatvision that why having a strong
communication strategy and thencelebrating small wins along the
way so that they know yourecognize the work that they're
doing, and just that can helpyou get so much more adoption
towards your transformation asyou're going through the process
.
Sam Neer (19:59):
I love that, especially with the recognition
right, it's the first step torecovery, as everyone says.
So again, silos, changemanagement, clear leadership
really connect with a lot ofthat, Emma.
But sort of taking this to thenext step is we as carriers and
insurance organizations can't dothis all of ourselves right.
As much as we want to solveworld hunger, we can't be
specialists at everything.
So I think that leads to maybebuilding off the idea of
(20:20):
challenges.
I think that leads to maybebuilding off the idea of
challenges.
How do carriers successfullychoose who to partner with, who
to assist with this process?
Because it always seems easy,you know it's like, hey,
everyone just plug and play,It'll just be a quick spin up.
But I think there's more thanmeets the eye in regards to that
partnership.
So, building off the challenges, how do you know who to work
with at a broad level?
Ema Roloff (20:42):
Well, I would say one thing very frankly, and I
will tell my customers this tooTransformation is not easy, it's
not for the faint of heart, andif somebody is telling you that
something is going to be likeso easy, don't worry about it.
There's likely somethinglurking under the covers.
So I mean, when I'm talking tomy customers, I will regularly
(21:04):
say, like well, you know, weneed to dive into that a lot
more detail to understand.
Like, in theory, we should beable to use an API to integrate
there, or we've integrated inthis capacity in the past.
But I don't know enough aboutyour environment and I don't
know enough about, like, whatendpoints you're going to have
have, because everybody'senvironment is different and
there's unique challenges thatcome with every organization.
(21:27):
If you're not hearingacknowledgement of what those
potential challenges could beand hearing the things that you
need to hear to know thatthey're going to work through
challenges and not just be therewhen it's like the happy path,
then I think that that might bea signal to you that you need to
dig deeper into thatrelationship to understand what
(21:47):
it's going to be like ifsomething doesn't go according
to plan.
No salesperson is ever going tosay you know, of course, this
is going to be like the worstexperience of your life, and so,
like that's not, a realisticthing and I would never say that
to a customer, because younever want that to be the
scenario.
But they should be willing totalk through with you like, okay
(22:09):
, so if we run into a challenge,what does your mediation
process look like?
Or what would be potentialpitfalls that you see, based off
of our timeline and our scopethat we're talking about?
They should be comfortabletalking through that with you.
So that again, it's kind oflike a marriage.
You shouldn't get marriedwithout talking to them, like
(22:30):
your spouse, about how you'regoing to work through conflict
and what that's going to looklike and figuring out how to
communicate effectively with oneanother.
When you're going in, especiallyfor something like a core
transformation or a really bigproject, you almost have to go
through that due diligence oflike, okay, what do our
communication strategies looklike?
What are our cadence forcheck-ins going to be?
(22:50):
How do we escalate on both ends?
So if you're not getting whatyou need from us, you know who
to go to and vice versa.
And just working through someof those components I think can
be really important.
Of those components, I thinkcan be really important, but I
also think part of it is likeculture of the carrier and
culture of the company thatthey're partnering with.
There's going to be softwarecompanies that work really well
(23:14):
with a specific culture of acarrier but might not mesh well
with another.
So you also kind of have to behonest with yourself, of like,
who are you as a company andwhat does your culture look like
, and who are the vendors thatyou've seen be effective from a
cultural fit in that perspective, and how do you replicate that
with other relationships?
Greg Hamlin (23:35):
I think that's great and I think one of the
things you hit on is making surethat you are picking the right
partner and planning for thingsthat might not go right, and
making sure you have the opencommunication channels.
Things are going to go sideways.
Change is hard.
Some of the places or carriersthat I've talked to think of
(23:56):
trying to do it all themselves.
So there's always that approachright, like well, we'll build
it ourselves, which is great ifyou have the resources to do
that.
I often think that we're in theinsurance space and that's
where we're experts at.
So when we try to be experts ateverything, it doesn't go well.
So when you're thinking about apartner, let's say you've
gotten to the point where yourealize, okay, we can't do this
(24:17):
all ourselves.
We do need somebody else tohelp us with that.
What's the danger in seeking asingle partner for that, opposed
to looking at, maybe, multipledifferent partners for different
solutions?
Ema Roloff (24:27):
Are we talking like implementation, thought process,
or like one software solutionto rule them all, so to speak?
Greg Hamlin (24:35):
I'd say maybe both, but I was thinking more along
the lines of one softwaresolution.
Ema Roloff (24:40):
So I mean there is there, just like anything in
life.
We'll start with the softwareside.
There are benefits anddrawbacks to either approach.
So when you're looking at likea software solution suite to
bring in and there are economiesof scale that come with having
(25:01):
one platform and extending itinto multiple areas as long as
it has those capabilities, butno software platform is going to
be the best of breed acrossevery single category.
That's just not realistic toexpect that.
So you do have to almost 80-20it in your mind to realize that
(25:23):
they might have 80% of whatyou're looking for and there
might be something that you'regoing to feature,
functionality-wise, potentiallyneed to be willing to make
sacrifices on if you want oneplatform to go across everything
.
So that would be kind of likethe drawback.
The benefit of that is like youwere talking about, like from a
(25:43):
resourcing perspective, from atraining perspective.
You have the ability, if you'vegot one platform, to specialize
in that platform and figure outhow to use that platform
incredibly effectively, to maybeeven make up for some of that
20%.
That didn't have all of thebells and whistles that you were
looking for from a feature andfunctionality perspective and
(26:04):
your team can support thatplatform with a lot more ease
than if you go kind of best ofbreed approach and bring in a
collection of differentsolutions.
The other benefit that comesfrom having that one solution as
we continue to talk about thistheme of an integrated
experience If you're buying fromone provider, they better have
(26:26):
that integration figured outbetween their components of
their solution and so youminimize the risk that comes
with that communication back andforth between those different
components of the solution.
Now, on the flip side, if yougo with the collection of
software platforms, you'relikely going to be able to go
out and I mean it's a biggertime investment for you to
(26:49):
search out that best of breedcapability in every category and
bring in those platforms.
But then you do haveintegrations across the board
the board, even if they, youknow again, even if it's like an
accelerator or something thatsomeone's done before, there is
a gray area on what that'll looklike and the effort that it
could take for you to stringthose applications together.
(27:11):
But also, integrations aren'tone and done, and that's, I
think, something that peopleforget sometimes, and so you
need to have the bandwidth onyour team to keep those
integrations up to date, soevery time that something
upgrades, you need to be able todo regression testing to make
sure that that integrationdidn't break.
And if you've got multipleplatforms, you're almost always
(27:33):
going through something alongthat spectrum of updating.
And then your team has to bedangerous enough against each
one of those platforms to beable to keep up with that
maintenance that's in place.
Or you have to havepartnerships and solution
integrator relationships thathave the bandwidth to be able to
(27:54):
keep up with that, which comeswith additional cost as well.
So I don't think that there's aright or a wrong answer, and
typically what I would see isthat larger carriers who have
that bandwidth and have thatbudget will opt towards that
best of breed approach becausethey have the appetite for it.
But then mid-tier to smallercarriers recognize that they
(28:16):
might not get all of the bellsand whistles of those best of
breed, but it's going to be moremanageable for them on the
long-term scale.
Sam Neer (28:25):
Yeah, as someone who deals with a variety of
different vendors, emma, it'sreally that trade-off Because,
again, it's a great idea of onesize fits all and have one
person to go to one set ofcontacts, but at the same time
you can sometimes be boxed inthere.
For instance, we've all had workdone on our houses or
apartments where there's thegeneral contractor who can do
literally everything, but thenthey're great at half of what it
(28:45):
is, and then you see later, ohmy gosh, what the heck was this?
And while it's great to getspecialists in each area, but
then you've got the nightmare ofcoordination and I've got to
call and where's the plumberversus where's the roof guy,
right?
So again, I think it's fighting, like you've talked earlier,
about your culture of yourorganization.
What's your culture?
Do you prefer just have the onepoint of contact in the old
school let's pick up the phoneand call this one person or is
(29:06):
it okay having a variety ofcontacts and being able to get
the best of breed?
So I do like that idea of beingable to mesh how your culture
fits with what you're lookingfor there and then, like you
said, also size considerationsas well.
Greg Hamlin (29:19):
Yeah, from my end, I think one of the things I've
seen from the claims perspectiveis, when there is change, when
the frontline employees and Ithink you talked about this a
little bit, about the importanceof vision when they have
unrealistic expectations of howthings are going to work, it can
cause a lot of tension betweeneither your vendor and the
(29:40):
company or from, if you have anIT department of some kind, them
and your staff, as expectationsare not realistic.
So, emma, have you seen thatplay out, and what's the best
way to avoid getting down a pathwhere there are unrealistic
expectations which will followwith frustration?
Ema Roloff (29:58):
So another area that I would say I'm pretty
passionate about is this idea ofbuilding digital literacy
within an organization, and Ithink that that is the best way
to combat unrealisticexpectations and also to help
spur what the art of thepossible is.
Going back to that conversationthat we had before to start to
(30:18):
get people to be able to thinkin different paradigms than they
have before before, to start toget people to be able to think
in different paradigms than theyhave before, and so when I say
digital literacy, I mean a basicunderstanding of what is
possible with technology andwhere are the bounds in which
it's going to offer us benefitto the business.
And that's not to say that yourexecutives or every single
(30:40):
person working in your claimsdepartment needs to learn how to
code or needs to learn how tobe a technical resource.
I don't think that that'sappropriate and I don't think
that that's the right path.
But you do have to understandhow technology works at at least
a foundational layer or level,to be able to set the right
(31:00):
expectations for your team, tobe able to understand what is
realistic from a businessoutcome perspective, to be able
to set the right timelines andthe right budgets and all of the
rest of that comes from havingthat basic understanding of,
again, that category that I calldigital literacy.
(31:21):
And if you are spending time,even if it's a small amount of
time, learning about emergingtechnologies, going to
conferences and learning aboutwhat other carriers are doing
and having conversations whereyou're just understanding that
digital landscape at a betterlevel, then you're going to be
able to come back and then workwith your experts that you have
(31:42):
in-house to start to ask theright questions, to set the
right expectations, because Idon't think it's intentional
that we don't set the rightexpectations.
I think we're overly optimisticand we don't know how to ask
the right questions, to setourselves in the right lane, and
so that's why I'm so passionateabout the executive team and
(32:04):
leaders within an organizationlearning that but then also
building those skills on yourteam so that they can support
your digital initiatives Again,kind of all rowing in that same
direction.
Back to your vision again.
Greg Hamlin (32:16):
That's great.
I think you know that's one ofthe things I've seen in my own
staff different places that I'veworked is just if they can
understand what's coming andthey have enough of an
understanding of how it getsdone.
You don't have to be experts,like you said.
But if you don't know how itgets done, then it makes it
really hard.
And I can even think of timeswhere we've had somebody suggest
well, why can't we have abutton that if I click it'll do
(32:38):
this, and then we talk aboutokay, we could do that,
anything's really possible.
But do you realize how much timethat would take?
Let's talk about, if we were tospend this much time doing that
, what other things could we bedoing for you that might benefit
you more in understanding thatpiece, because I think for a lot
of frontline employees they maylook at the technology side as
(32:59):
almost wizardry, right, likesomebody is waving a wand back
there and just making it happen,and they don't understand that.
Like, well, that ask ispossible, but we would have to
sacrifice some other thingsbecause there's going to be
trade-offs in how much time wehave to make the magic happen
Anything.
You want to add to that, sam,you're on that other side.
Sam Neer (33:17):
Yeah, and again, it's like we wish we had our magic
wands.
I wake up every morning wishingfor the genie and just asking
for a magic wand for productdevelopment, and then my wife
would say you should probablyget better wishes next time.
All that to say is from thetechnology side.
It's like expectation settingis so important.
I love what you said, emmanuel.
You as well, greg is we need topick apart these items.
The big red button that solvesmy world hunger.
(33:38):
Well, maybe you don't knowabout the regulatory reporting
component underneath that.
Maybe you don't know.
Hey, downstream vendors rely onthis step to be able to fill in
this field.
And maybe, greg we talked aboutthis when I was on the podcast
maybe there's 11 steps, maybe wedon't need all 11, but maybe we
still need these three, right?
So sometimes we think aboutabsolutes, like it has to be an
(33:59):
all or nothing, but can we pickit apart just to try to get
underneath the surface there?
So, sort of building on this, Iwould sort of ask, like
selfishly, I'm very interestedto think is are there any
practical ways that you can useto ensure this user adoption?
Right, like again, it's likeyou know there's, everyone wants
it, everyone says, yeah, I'm onboard.
But then you know when rubbermeets the road.
(34:19):
Sometimes there's a big gapbetween everyone verbally buying
in and then actually making thecommitment to do so.
So have you seen anythingthat's worked in the past to be
able to actually rally aroundthat idea of actually putting
boots on the ground and gettingher done?
Ema Roloff (34:35):
So again, I kind of mentioned that there's a couple
of things from a changemanagement perspective that I
boil it down to and I've saidthose before and I can dive into
specifically where I thinkthey'll support this idea.
So again, it's having thatclear vision and a why behind
the change, and that is going tobe, honestly, I think that
(34:55):
that's the biggest piece.
And as an executive, you setthat vision.
You are not solely responsiblefor making sure that that why
gets down to every level, and soyou have to have tight
alignment with your leaders andyour managers within your
business to help make sure thatthey're doing the work to get
that why actually down to everyindividual within the company.
(35:16):
And so once you have that again, you've got that why.
Then the communication piece isagain where I think the rubber
hits the road in terms of how totruly make sure that you're
getting that adoption.
And I always say you have tocommunicate the good, the bad
and the ugly along the way, andI don't think you can
over-communicate during animplementation.
(35:38):
And I think part of thatcommunication has to be
bi-directional communication asyou're going through an
implementation.
That's not to say because it'snot realistic to have every
employee provide their feedback.
It's not realistic to say thateverybody's in design meetings,
because we know that you'd neverget anything done if that was
the case.
But where I do think that youneed to be thoughtful is as
(36:20):
you're working with departmentspulling key people in that you
know have that kind of like.
We all know that person in thedepartment that everyone goes to
to ask questions that has allof this institutional knowledge
and knows the why behindeverything, and we all know who
that person is in a departmentand they're usually also a big
part of getting adoption.
So if you can get that personthat has that institutional
knowledge and has all of thatgold inside of their mind into
the engagement in some capacity,even at like a testing or
(36:42):
planning you know, planningsessions, whatever portion of
that process that you can bringthem into and genuinely take
their feedback not everythingyou don't have to, like you know
, do exactly what they'retelling you, but genuinely take
their feedback, hear it andadopt some of that into the
solution, then you have the mostimportant advocate for adopting
(37:04):
that solution on your side.
And the reason that I say thatthis is so effective is that
sometimes those people are thepeople that are the hardest to
win over to the change becausethey're the ones that are used
to the way that it's done.
They don't want it to change.
They don't want their status asthat knowledge source to be
(37:24):
questioned or taken away, andthat can be a scary thing.
But if they feel like they'vebeen a part of shaping that
solution, some of that fearstarts to dissipate and again
it's kind of like the leader ofthe pack all of a sudden starts
to see the value in it and then,once they feel that the
solution is going to make theirjob easier and that it's
developed in a way that's goingto help, all of a sudden starts
to see the value in it.
And then, once they feel thatthe solution is gonna make their
job easier and that it'sdeveloped in a way that's gonna
(37:47):
help them be effective, they'regoing to adopt it and they're
gonna tell other people why theyshould do it and they're going
to help you get that whycommunicated across the
department far more effectivelythan you ever could as a leader,
without living and breathing intheir shoes every day.
So that communication, thatbi-directional communication, I
think is the most important part, but then also kind of going to
(38:09):
that celebrating small winsalong the way, celebrate the
fact that they were involved inbeing a part of shaping the
solution, thank them for thetime that they put forward into
making it something that's goingto be really effective for the
rest of the team.
Forward into making itsomething that's going to be
really effective for the rest ofthe team and use that as an
additional communicationmechanism to get people to know
(38:30):
that you didn't do it in a siloand that you had that
bi-directional communication tomake sure that you were ending
up with the best product thatyou could.
And it sounds really Again, tome it sounds kind of easy.
It's not necessarily easy to do, but it's also not the most
difficult part of yourtransformation that you're going
to have.
And when you can win over thosehard personalities, it makes
the rest of it so much easier.
Greg Hamlin (38:51):
I think you're spot on.
Each place that I've gone towork, I've had to come in and
part of the reason I was broughtin was to make change.
And each time and maybe not onthe digital side, but each time
there's some real challengeswith that and I think you hit on
.
One of the keys that has helpedme is you do have to find that
really knowledgeable skeptic andget that knowledgeable skeptic
(39:14):
on your side.
And I can remember a couple oftimes.
I remember one specific time wehad laid out the vision of what
things were going to change tomake things easier for people.
So they had time and theyweren't so overloaded and they
weren't so overworked.
And this one particularemployee came into me and she
was like she looks so mad andshe was waving her finger at me,
going I'm going to hold youaccountable that this is going
(39:36):
to happen.
And I said I want you to, Iwant you to come in my office
each week and let's talk aboutit.
And it was amazing to see ittook time, because these things
don't get fixed overnight.
But when she started to feellike you know what it is
changing and it is happening andI'm part of that things got a
lot better.
Ema Roloff (39:53):
I like that.
She waved her finger at you.
Oh yeah.
Sam Neer (39:58):
We all know that Finger pointing.
Greg Hamlin (40:01):
I remember thinking , oh boy, what have I got myself
into?
But it it.
Things got tremendously betterafter that time.
But you know, there there doesneed to be some trust.
That has to be built and forchange to be successful.
So I think we've talked aboutthis a lot already, but just
maybe to to top it off, we'vetalked about what makes change
hard versus easy, and I thinkwe've we've hit that pretty
(40:23):
pretty well.
But I wanted to end eachepisode this year talking about
something that people aregrateful for.
I'm really a big proponentabout putting good vibes in the
universe.
I feel like there's so muchnegativity out there, and so if
the one little thing that Gregcan do is to make sure we put
something good out there everycouple of weeks, I want to do it
.
So I wanted to ask you thatquestion what's something that
(40:46):
you're really grateful for?
Ema Roloff (40:48):
Well, I mean, I could give like the really
obvious answer of my family,which I hope everyone knows is
also a part of my gratefulnesspractice, but I so this is going
to sound a little woo woo, butagain, going back to putting
good into the world, right, I amreally thankful for a TikTok
(41:08):
that I found a couple of monthsago.
That was about like kind oflike this idea of manifestation
and gratefulness wrapped intoone, and I made a post about it
on LinkedIn and a TikTok andit's called lucky girl syndrome,
okay, and it was this TikTokthat these like college girls
made and it became a trend ononline.
That was this idea of like ifevery day, you say to yourself,
(41:31):
I'm the luckiest girl in theworld, or guy or whatever phrase
you want to use for yourself,but like, I'm the luckiest
person in the world and thingsare always working out for me,
even if I don't realize that theway that you see the world
changes.
And just even saying thatstatement, when you say that
statement, you immediately startto reflect on the things that
you're very grateful for in theworld and it just like starts
(41:53):
your day off in the rightdirection and then also just
kind of manifesting that beliefthat things will come back to
you in a positive matter andthat mindset is something that,
like I would say, has been inplace for the last couple of
months and it just makes youappreciate the things that are
happening in your life.
It makes you see opportunitywhere you might not have seen it
(42:14):
in the past and it makes youagain kind of going back to that
idea of what you're gratefulfor.
It gives you a reminder everysingle day on why you're the
luckiest person in the world andif you can reprogram your brain
to think that way, I think it'sa really powerful thing.
So when I'm thinking about that, immediately what pops into my
head every day is my family, andthen it goes to something
really positive that happenedthe day before, or people that I
(42:38):
have relationships with, thatin the industry that I know
building me up, friendships thatI've had for years.
You know, each day your brainwill go in a slightly different
direction, but it's just thislike really nice mindfulness
activity, and my husband thinksit's really funny because I go
for a walk around ourneighborhood and I say it out
loud.
(42:59):
I'm not being a crazy persontalking to myself.
Greg Hamlin (43:02):
No, I think it's so important.
What we say out loud and how wethink about the world changes
who we are, and that's why I'm areally big proponent of trying
to put those good things outthere.
One of the people I interviewedin a podcast oh, it's been a
couple of years ago is a partialpolygic quadriplegic and helps
people deal with pain, and theone thing she said and I don't
(43:24):
know if she came up with it orgot it from somewhere else, but
I've thought about it so manytimes since then is that which
we focus on, we enlarge andempower, and I really believe
that.
So if you're going to focus onpain, you're going to make that
pain bigger.
If we're going to focus on thethings we're grateful for, we're
going to blow those things upand make them bigger, and so I
love that idea of being theluckiest person in the world.
So I might try that, See howthat goes.
Sam Neer (43:46):
I'll say luckiest guy I'm going to stop stealing that
as well, trust me.
There's a lot of good mileageon that one.
Greg Hamlin (43:57):
Well, emma, thank you so much for spending some
time with us.
Sam, thank you for co-hostingwith me today.
I think this is a great topicand we were able to talk about
some things that are reallyimportant in the industry.
Just remind people to do right,think differently and don't
forget to care.
And that's it for this one.
Thanks everybody.
(44:45):
Thank you.
Hello everybody and welcome to Adjusted.
I'm your host, Greg Hamlin,coming at you from Sweet Home,
Alabama and Berkeley IndustrialComp.
And I'm excited to share withyou this rebroadcast.
This episode is with my friend,Emma Roloff, who I met at a
technology conference a numberof years ago and we had a great
(00:35):
discussion about how technologyis transforming the industry and
how does a carrier or a leadermap out the process that takes
your company from where it isnow to a new level through
technology and the importance ofgaining cooperation with the
employees, gaining buy-in,thinking through all of the
(00:57):
steps so that we don't havebumps along the way.
I really enjoyed our discussiontogether and I hope you do as
well.
Way, I really enjoyed ourdiscussion together and I hope
you do as well.
Remind you to like, follow andshare this podcast and love it
if you could go on to favoriteplatform and leave us a
five-star review so that otherscan find their way to this
(01:18):
podcast and enjoy the samecontent you're enjoying.
So, with that, I'll remind youto do right, think differently
and don't forget to care andenjoy.
Welcome to Adjusted.
I'm your host, Greg Hamlin,coming at you from beautiful
Birmingham, Alabama and BerkeleyIndustrial Comp.
And with me is my co-host today, Sam Neer.
(01:40):
Sam, do you want to introduceyourself today, hey?
Sam Neer (01:42):
everybody, sam Neer, coming from Raleigh, north
Carolina, where it's gotten waytoo hot, way too fast, group
product manager with BerkeleyAlternative Markets Tech and
really excited about today'sconversation.
Greg Hamlin (01:53):
Yeah, it's going to be fun.
We had Sam on as a guestrecently and since today we're
going to be talking aboutdigital transformation, I
thought I'd bring him on to beour expert co-host.
So he's here today and with us.
We have our special guest today, emma Roloff.
She's the director of NorthAmerican Property and Casualty
Sales and host of her ownYouTube series called Leading
(02:16):
Change.
So, emma, we're glad to haveyou here.
Ema Roloff (02:19):
Thank you for having me, guys.
I'm excited for theconversation.
Greg Hamlin (02:22):
Well, I am too.
I had the opportunity to do ashort interview with you on your
podcast, so I thought it wastime to turn the tables, so glad
to have you.
I always like to start byasking this question how did you
end up in the industry?
Because I'm guessing, like whenyou were in your career day, in
like second grade, you weren'tlike this is it?
I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to be in theinsurance space, am I right?
Ema Roloff (02:48):
You are right.
I wish that I was one of thelike.
I've met a couple of peoplethat actually do have those
stories and now I'm almost alittle jealous of them because
it's like so much more uniquethan everybody else who kind of
stumbled their way in.
But you're right.
So I actually, back to thosesecond grade days, was planning
on being a teacher and went toschool for education.
So I actually have acertification to teach sixth
(03:10):
through 12th grade socialstudies, okay, and I started
that down that path and wasplanning to do that and really
truthfully, it was because Ireally enjoyed public speaking
and liked kids.
And you know, that was kind ofthe initial like this is a great
career for you, go for it.
And so that was just kind oflike my operating assumption for
(03:31):
a long time.
And then again, kind of liketwisty, windy to get me here,
but I ended up taking a positionout of college as a corporate
trainer.
So I had done a couple ofinternships while I was
finishing out my studentteaching and realized like hey,
I actually kind of like businessand there's a lot of stuff
that's applicable to what I doin the classroom.
(03:51):
It's just bigger people thatyou're teaching.
Now I was like, okay, I kind oflike this, and it's not
necessarily that I just lovekids, I like people.
And so that was kind of myfirst step into the business
world.
And I did that for a couple ofyears and then was ready for a
change and wanted to get intotechnology.
And I always joke that myhusband, my father-in-law and my
(04:12):
husband's uncle sat me down foran intervention one year at
Thanksgiving and they told me togo into sales.
And at the time that wassomething that sounded like
really not appealing to me.
But they were like, if you findsomething that you're
passionate about and you'reactually helping people solve
problems while you're in sales,you're going to really enjoy it
and you can do all of the thingsthat you're good at from like
(04:34):
your other positions and yourother jobs that you've had in
the past.
And so I applied to one salesjob to get them to be quiet and
ended up finding a verywonderful company that was
focused on process automationand enterprise software
implementations and I was withthem for about 8 years and
really caught the bug fortransformation and technology.
(04:58):
And finally, this really windypath to lead us into insurance
when I was like 24 years old,just took this job, brand new to
tech, brand new to sales.
They said you know what?
There's a big need for processautomation within the insurance
industry, but we don't haveanybody that's a specialist in
that area.
Would you like to learn aboutit?
And the answer to that is like,well, you're giving me an
(05:20):
opportunity.
So, yeah, I'm going to take itand I'll figure it out.
From here and over the courseof the last handful of years, I
would say that the insuranceindustry has done what it does
to a lot of people.
It's pulled me in Again myaffinity for people.
There's so many wonderfulpeople and the business is so
relationship driven that I feellike now I'm stuck and I'm just
not going to make my way out.
Sam Neer (05:41):
You can't get out you can't get out.
That's a lot like your story,sam too, because I think you
kind of got pulled in sidewaystoo.
Yeah, very much.
So again it wasn't like again,my podcast a few episodes ago
wasn't like I grew up thinkingabout insurance, but again you
start getting in here and youstart getting the people, you
get seeing the change that'sbeing affected and, like you
said, emma, it's you know, onceyou're in you can't see yourself
going anywhere else, which isthe exciting part about it.
(06:03):
It so love the journey to getthere Right.
And the one application, justthe one application, and then
the rest is history correct.
Ema Roloff (06:09):
Yep exactly.
Greg Hamlin (06:11):
So the big topic for today is digital
transformation, and I know thatthe concept of digital
transformation is being talkedabout all the time and I don't
know if a lot of our listenerseven know what that is or what
that means in relation to theinsurance industry, so I thought
maybe we just start there.
What do you define digitaltransformation as, and where is
(06:34):
it fit in the insurance industry?
Ema Roloff (06:36):
Yeah, so I would say my definition when you Google
it.
Part of the reason that it'sthis big, ambiguous buzz term is
if you look at Wikipedia, itjust says process optimization
through the use of technology,which is a great place to get
started.
But where I really look at itand I'll give you the soundbite
(06:57):
definition and then dive in alittle bit further into why I'm
so passionate about the way thatI phrase this so to me it is
making your people moreefficient and improving your
processes through technology andI lead with people in process,
because those should ultimatelybe the area of focus and we're
(07:17):
enabling them with technology.
And when you start to kind ofagain unpack this idea of people
and process tied to it, thereason that I think it gets so
fuzzy is because we start tobring in these really big
intangible ideas like improvingour culture or customer
experience, again through thislens of how do we improve it
(07:40):
with technology, and thosethings are kind of buzz terms in
their own right as well, and soit gets really muddy when you
start to think about it throughthat lens of like we're enabling
these big, intangible thingsthrough technology, and that's
why I always like to bring itback to people first and
foremost in all of it, andbecause we get tricked by the
(08:03):
use of digital on the front ofthe term.
So we opt directly towardstechnology.
But if you go with asolution-led approach, you're
going to lose sight of the factthat your people or your
technology is being used bypeople.
Your customers are people, youremployees are people, your
partners and I can go on and onand on.
The people that are deployingit are people.
(08:24):
So it all comes back to thatidea and it's enabling that all
through technology and the toolsare there.
I promise that there'swonderful, and I mean maybe I
shouldn't say this as a softwaresalesperson, but there's a lot
of platforms that will meet yourneed if you focus on the people
and the process side of itfirst and you know what you're
(08:44):
actually trying to enable.
But if you lead on the peopleand the process side of it first
and you know what you'reactually trying to enable, but
if you lead with the technology,you forget about that other
stuff and then you getfrustrated that it didn't do
what you wanted it to do becauseyou started it with the wrong
part.
Sam Neer (08:55):
Yeah, I love that, emma.
I think it's really the idea ofextension beyond the software,
right, it's the idea of it's notjust you can all get saying the
program, the code, the lines ofcode, the product as a product
manager myself, it's like lookat the cool button and look what
they can do.
But how you go beyond that nextstep in the people-centered
approach or the human-centeredapproach, I think is really
awesome.
I think the build on that afollow-up question maybe is is
(09:19):
there anything else that extendsbesides the software?
I know you mentioned people andprocess, but have you found
anything else that helpscomplement the technology that
most people wouldn't think ofoff the bat?
Ema Roloff (09:30):
That's a good question.
I obviously just went on mymonologue about people, but,
coming from my starting point,within a process consulting
company, I cannot stress theimportance of also tying your
technology implementation toprocess improvement at the same
time, to your point again, wecan opt towards like look at
(09:51):
what this really cool button cando, but are we building a
button to do a step that'sunnecessary in the first place?
And I think that that questionsometimes gets sped past too.
And within the insuranceindustry, I guess I didn't
address this part of thequestion at the beginning of how
does it relate to our industry.
But when you look at theinsurance industry, we have this
(10:13):
concept that what we do is socomplex that there's no way we
can simplify it, and we havethis propensity to use that, I
think, as an excuse to keep usfrom asking the hard questions
of why are we doing it that wayanyhow, and is there a simpler
way for us to manage this?
Now don't get me wrong.
(10:33):
There are so many layers andthere is complexity.
We can't escape that, and partof that complexity comes from
things like regulation and allof the rest of that.
But I can't tell you how manytimes I've been in a meeting
where I've asked the question oflike okay, so why are we doing
it that way?
And someone will start to tellyou a story about like well, 25
(10:55):
years ago.
And you're like okay, well, Iget that, but have you thought
about maybe doing it differentlynow?
And so I mean again, I went onmy big people conversation, but
I also can't stress howimportant it is for you to
really truly stop and thinkabout what's the most effective
way that we should be managingthis and then bringing in the
(11:16):
technology to enable thatefficient process.
Greg Hamlin (11:19):
I couldn't agree more, emma, and what you said
really stood out to me in thatone of the employers that I
worked for in a different life.
I remember that people were somarried to a certain way we used
to do things.
The example I always gave islike if you had done everything
in Word and then I gave youExcel and then you tried to take
(11:40):
everything that was in thatWord document and put it in one
cell and you were frustratedthat it wasn't working the way
that you wanted it to.
It's like well, that's actuallynot how this tool works and
we're so married to doing itthis one way.
We're not even looking at thepossibility.
So I think that's hard forpeople to do, just in general,
as we get comfortable with howwe do things and then thinking
(12:02):
about it a different way can behard.
From your experience, where doyou think digital transformation
can make the largest impact?
Ema Roloff (12:09):
So I think, within again, going back to like kind
of where we're at within theinsurance industry, I think a
lot of carriers and this is notsaying that this is the wrong
approach, but a lot of carriersfelt intense pressure to improve
their customer experience.
And we're still seeing thattoday.
A lot of the conversations thatI'm having, whether it's
(12:31):
speaking at conferences ortalking to customers during
discovery and that kind of thing, it's this idea that we have to
have a digital first approachto customer experience and I
think that many carriers have atleast some component of a
digital experience on the frontend of how they're interacting
with their customers, becausethey were told that that was the
(12:52):
ultimate spot to start.
The Amazon effect is real.
We're all used to dealing withtechnology and if you didn't do
that, you'd probably be in a lotof trouble.
But where I think many, manycompanies have an opportunity
right now is on the back end andfixing what those processes
look like and improving theiremployee experience to
(13:12):
ultimately impact the customerexperience down the line.
Because, again, if you've doneall of this work and it's
massive lifts in many scenariosto build the digital experience
and integrate it back to theback end but if you're not also
in tandem looking at are weupdating those core systems that
are in the background ofeverything?
Do we have the appropriateintegrations and connections to
(13:36):
make this as seamless aspossible for our employees to be
effective?
There's still a lot of room foryou to improve that customer
experience by shortening yourclaims lifecycle with how you
manage things in the backend.
So I think that that is goingto be something that we start to
see, also tied to many of thethings that are just kind of
happening.
At a macro level.
I think we're out of the greatresignation but that mentality
(14:00):
of workers really seeking adifferent experience from their
jobs, whether that's remote workbut also inefficiencies.
I see a lot of stuff popping upand we could maybe go into a
different, but I do a lot onTikTok.
I create a lot of content there, I see comments there and then
also interacting with peoplewhen it's not tied to their
employer, and being in thatmanagement leadership side of
(14:21):
TikTok is very interestingbecause there's a lot of
conversations about people in mygeneration having zero ability
to deal with inefficiency andjust getting angry and deciding
to leave jobs because they can'thandle inefficient processes,
and so I think as we start tosee those younger generations
that are used to those seamlessexperiences as customers coming
(14:43):
into leadership positions.
We're going to see a shifttoward that seamless employee
experience being more importantas well.
Sam Neer (14:50):
Yeah, to really double-click on something you
said there, emma, I really likedwhat you said around, not just
the shiny veneer, not the Again.
Digital front-ends and thecustomer-first experience is
important we all agree on that,but sometimes what I'll say is
the non-scintillating way is thebackend right?
So the data processes, the APIs, the data transfers right, but
that's really what can impactthe things that you do think
(15:12):
about with speed Right now.
Again, we're blessed to be ableto have websites that load like
that.
So if you're waiting for liketwo seconds, or going back to
your TikTok example, if you'rewaiting, and it's waiting like
three seconds, the short formcontent this is a lifetime right
.
So it's sometimes the importanceof not necessarily having hey,
we've got the cool front end,which everyone likes to see, but
then if you hear it's takingtoo long or it's not integrating
(15:33):
, and now you have five of thesesystems, it all really does tie
together.
So I really liked what youdouble-clicked on that area.
Greg Hamlin (15:40):
What are some of the challenges of a digital
transformation?
I think you fit on a few ofthose, but I know that if you're
creating a roadmap as anorganization, realizing we need
to do some things different fromyour perspective.
What are some of the pitfallsor challenges that you've seen
that carriers go through?
Ema Roloff (15:56):
So I would say the first piece is maybe lacking a
strong vision at the leadershiplevel.
Now, that's not like into all ofthe details of exactly how we
execute on our digitaltransformation strategy, but
even just that clear vision fromyour leadership team of these
(16:18):
are the most important thingsand how we're going to enable
them through the use oftechnology, in a way that gives
each and every department leaderand each and every person in
the company a trendle to pullfrom of.
We're all steering in thisdirection and some companies do
that really, really well, andother companies will have the
(16:41):
imperative to digitallytransform.
Or we're going to become adigital carrier or we're going
to.
But that's too vague in the waythat it doesn't help your team
prioritize what's going to bemost important for you and it
doesn't help your team pull outtheir own individual initiatives
and then down to thatindividual level to make sure
(17:01):
everyone's going in the samedirection.
And if you just have a veryvague vision, what's going to
happen is everyone's going tointerpret that their own way and
each department is going tostart innovating in a silo, and
then what you're going to get?
Going back to a little bit ofthat conversation of lack of
integration and lack ofcontinuity, you're going to have
everybody going in these samedirections and then, just even
(17:24):
coming down to the IT level ofit, they might not even know all
the systems that are being used.
They might not even know what'shappening and that nasty little
shadow IT thing starts to pop up.
And so I think that all bubblesback up to that vision at the
top and it needs to be specificenough where everybody can use
it to start heading in the samedirection.
(17:46):
And then I would say that'sclosely tied to and already
ranted about people.
So here I go again.
But I think change managementis another piece that I'm very,
very, very passionate aboutbeing a part of a transformation
strategy and that ties reallyclosely to that vision.
So part of the reason that Ifeel so passionate about that
(18:08):
vision being something thatpeople can latch on to is your
team, every single person onyour team, needs to understand
what's in it for them if they'regoing to support an initiative,
and they can't do that if theydon't have the end vision in
mind and if they don't know howthat relates back to their job
and how it's going to improvetheir job, make their job easier
(18:35):
, help them, make more.
Whatever that what's in it forme statement is for that
individual, and I feel likeeverybody knows change
management is important andeverybody knows that they should
be focusing on how to helptheir people adapt.
But even just like theconversation that you were
having with like Word versusExcel that's attached to we have
a thought process, we'recreatures of habit and we're
(18:58):
scared of change because wedon't know what it means.
And if that change feelsthreatening, we're going to
resist it.
If that change feels like amandate, we're going to resist
it.
And so there's all of thesedifferent directions that if you
don't manage that changeappropriately across your team,
suddenly you're going to startto see all of these behaviors
(19:20):
and it's really easy to chalkthose behaviors up to like oh,
our team is so unwilling tochange when it's like well,
really, if you just did thepiece of making sure that they
understood where you're going,why you're going there as a
company, and then help themfigure out how it was going to
impact them, you probablywouldn't have this issue, and we
overcomplicate changemanagement sometimes too.
(19:41):
So I think it can be thatvision that why having a strong
communication strategy and thencelebrating small wins along the
way so that they know yourecognize the work that they're
doing, and just that can helpyou get so much more adoption
towards your transformation asyou're going through the process
.
Sam Neer (19:59):
I love that, especially with the recognition
right, it's the first step torecovery, as everyone says.
So again, silos, changemanagement, clear leadership
really connect with a lot ofthat, Emma.
But sort of taking this to thenext step is we as carriers and
insurance organizations can't dothis all of ourselves right.
As much as we want to solveworld hunger, we can't be
specialists at everything.
So I think that leads to maybebuilding off the idea of
(20:20):
challenges.
I think that leads to maybebuilding off the idea of
challenges.
How do carriers successfullychoose who to partner with, who
to assist with this process?
Because it always seems easy,you know it's like, hey,
everyone just plug and play,It'll just be a quick spin up.
But I think there's more thanmeets the eye in regards to that
partnership.
So, building off the challenges, how do you know who to work
with at a broad level?
Ema Roloff (20:42):
Well, I would say one thing very frankly, and I
will tell my customers this tooTransformation is not easy, it's
not for the faint of heart, andif somebody is telling you that
something is going to be likeso easy, don't worry about it.
There's likely somethinglurking under the covers.
So I mean, when I'm talking tomy customers, I will regularly
(21:04):
say, like well, you know, weneed to dive into that a lot
more detail to understand.
Like, in theory, we should beable to use an API to integrate
there, or we've integrated inthis capacity in the past.
But I don't know enough aboutyour environment and I don't
know enough about, like, whatendpoints you're going to have
have, because everybody'senvironment is different and
there's unique challenges thatcome with every organization.
(21:27):
If you're not hearingacknowledgement of what those
potential challenges could beand hearing the things that you
need to hear to know thatthey're going to work through
challenges and not just be therewhen it's like the happy path,
then I think that that might bea signal to you that you need to
dig deeper into thatrelationship to understand what
(21:47):
it's going to be like ifsomething doesn't go according
to plan.
No salesperson is ever going tosay you know, of course, this
is going to be like the worstexperience of your life, and so,
like that's not, a realisticthing and I would never say that
to a customer, because younever want that to be the
scenario.
But they should be willing totalk through with you like, okay
(22:09):
, so if we run into a challenge,what does your mediation
process look like?
Or what would be potentialpitfalls that you see, based off
of our timeline and our scopethat we're talking about?
They should be comfortabletalking through that with you.
So that again, it's kind oflike a marriage.
You shouldn't get marriedwithout talking to them, like
(22:30):
your spouse, about how you'regoing to work through conflict
and what that's going to looklike and figuring out how to
communicate effectively with oneanother.
When you're going in, especiallyfor something like a core
transformation or a really bigproject, you almost have to go
through that due diligence oflike, okay, what do our
communication strategies looklike?
What are our cadence forcheck-ins going to be?
(22:50):
How do we escalate on both ends?
So if you're not getting whatyou need from us, you know who
to go to and vice versa.
And just working through someof those components I think can
be really important.
Of those components, I thinkcan be really important, but I
also think part of it is likeculture of the carrier and
culture of the company thatthey're partnering with.
There's going to be softwarecompanies that work really well
(23:14):
with a specific culture of acarrier but might not mesh well
with another.
So you also kind of have to behonest with yourself, of like,
who are you as a company andwhat does your culture look like
, and who are the vendors thatyou've seen be effective from a
cultural fit in that perspective, and how do you replicate that
with other relationships?
Greg Hamlin (23:35):
I think that's great and I think one of the
things you hit on is making surethat you are picking the right
partner and planning for thingsthat might not go right, and
making sure you have the opencommunication channels.
Things are going to go sideways.
Change is hard.
Some of the places or carriersthat I've talked to think of
(23:56):
trying to do it all themselves.
So there's always that approachright, like well, we'll build
it ourselves, which is great ifyou have the resources to do
that.
I often think that we're in theinsurance space and that's
where we're experts at.
So when we try to be experts ateverything, it doesn't go well.
So when you're thinking about apartner, let's say you've
gotten to the point where yourealize, okay, we can't do this
(24:17):
all ourselves.
We do need somebody else tohelp us with that.
What's the danger in seeking asingle partner for that, opposed
to looking at, maybe, multipledifferent partners for different
solutions?
Ema Roloff (24:27):
Are we talking like implementation, thought process,
or like one software solutionto rule them all, so to speak?
Greg Hamlin (24:35):
I'd say maybe both, but I was thinking more along
the lines of one softwaresolution.
Ema Roloff (24:40):
So I mean there is there, just like anything in
life.
We'll start with the softwareside.
There are benefits anddrawbacks to either approach.
So when you're looking at likea software solution suite to
bring in and there are economiesof scale that come with having
(25:01):
one platform and extending itinto multiple areas as long as
it has those capabilities, butno software platform is going to
be the best of breed acrossevery single category.
That's just not realistic toexpect that.
So you do have to almost 80-20it in your mind to realize that
(25:23):
they might have 80% of whatyou're looking for and there
might be something that you'regoing to feature,
functionality-wise, potentiallyneed to be willing to make
sacrifices on if you want oneplatform to go across everything
.
So that would be kind of likethe drawback.
The benefit of that is like youwere talking about, like from a
(25:43):
resourcing perspective, from atraining perspective.
You have the ability, if you'vegot one platform, to specialize
in that platform and figure outhow to use that platform
incredibly effectively, to maybeeven make up for some of that
20%.
That didn't have all of thebells and whistles that you were
looking for from a feature andfunctionality perspective and
(26:04):
your team can support thatplatform with a lot more ease
than if you go kind of best ofbreed approach and bring in a
collection of differentsolutions.
The other benefit that comesfrom having that one solution as
we continue to talk about thistheme of an integrated
experience If you're buying fromone provider, they better have
(26:26):
that integration figured outbetween their components of
their solution and so youminimize the risk that comes
with that communication back andforth between those different
components of the solution.
Now, on the flip side, if yougo with the collection of
software platforms, you'relikely going to be able to go
out and I mean it's a biggertime investment for you to
(26:49):
search out that best of breedcapability in every category and
bring in those platforms.
But then you do haveintegrations across the board
the board, even if they, youknow again, even if it's like an
accelerator or something thatsomeone's done before, there is
a gray area on what that'll looklike and the effort that it
could take for you to stringthose applications together.
(27:11):
But also, integrations aren'tone and done, and that's, I
think, something that peopleforget sometimes, and so you
need to have the bandwidth onyour team to keep those
integrations up to date, soevery time that something
upgrades, you need to be able todo regression testing to make
sure that that integrationdidn't break.
And if you've got multipleplatforms, you're almost always
(27:33):
going through something alongthat spectrum of updating.
And then your team has to bedangerous enough against each
one of those platforms to beable to keep up with that
maintenance that's in place.
Or you have to havepartnerships and solution
integrator relationships thathave the bandwidth to be able to
(27:54):
keep up with that, which comeswith additional cost as well.
So I don't think that there's aright or a wrong answer, and
typically what I would see isthat larger carriers who have
that bandwidth and have thatbudget will opt towards that
best of breed approach becausethey have the appetite for it.
But then mid-tier to smallercarriers recognize that they
(28:16):
might not get all of the bellsand whistles of those best of
breed, but it's going to be moremanageable for them on the
long-term scale.
Sam Neer (28:25):
Yeah, as someone who deals with a variety of
different vendors, emma, it'sreally that trade-off Because,
again, it's a great idea of onesize fits all and have one
person to go to one set ofcontacts, but at the same time
you can sometimes be boxed inthere.
For instance, we've all had workdone on our houses or
apartments where there's thegeneral contractor who can do
literally everything, but thenthey're great at half of what it
(28:45):
is, and then you see later, ohmy gosh, what the heck was this?
And while it's great to getspecialists in each area, but
then you've got the nightmare ofcoordination and I've got to
call and where's the plumberversus where's the roof guy,
right?
So again, I think it's fighting, like you've talked earlier,
about your culture of yourorganization.
What's your culture?
Do you prefer just have the onepoint of contact in the old
school let's pick up the phoneand call this one person or is
(29:06):
it okay having a variety ofcontacts and being able to get
the best of breed?
So I do like that idea of beingable to mesh how your culture
fits with what you're lookingfor there and then, like you
said, also size considerationsas well.
Greg Hamlin (29:19):
Yeah, from my end, I think one of the things I've
seen from the claims perspectiveis, when there is change, when
the frontline employees and Ithink you talked about this a
little bit, about the importanceof vision when they have
unrealistic expectations of howthings are going to work, it can
cause a lot of tension betweeneither your vendor and the
(29:40):
company or from, if you have anIT department of some kind, them
and your staff, as expectationsare not realistic.
So, emma, have you seen thatplay out, and what's the best
way to avoid getting down a pathwhere there are unrealistic
expectations which will followwith frustration?
Ema Roloff (29:58):
So another area that I would say I'm pretty
passionate about is this idea ofbuilding digital literacy
within an organization, and Ithink that that is the best way
to combat unrealisticexpectations and also to help
spur what the art of thepossible is.
Going back to that conversationthat we had before to start to
(30:18):
get people to be able to thinkin different paradigms than they
have before before, to start toget people to be able to think
in different paradigms than theyhave before, and so when I say
digital literacy, I mean a basicunderstanding of what is
possible with technology andwhere are the bounds in which
it's going to offer us benefitto the business.
And that's not to say that yourexecutives or every single
(30:40):
person working in your claimsdepartment needs to learn how to
code or needs to learn how tobe a technical resource.
I don't think that that'sappropriate and I don't think
that that's the right path.
But you do have to understandhow technology works at at least
a foundational layer or level,to be able to set the right
(31:00):
expectations for your team, tobe able to understand what is
realistic from a businessoutcome perspective, to be able
to set the right timelines andthe right budgets and all of the
rest of that comes from havingthat basic understanding of,
again, that category that I calldigital literacy.
(31:21):
And if you are spending time,even if it's a small amount of
time, learning about emergingtechnologies, going to
conferences and learning aboutwhat other carriers are doing
and having conversations whereyou're just understanding that
digital landscape at a betterlevel, then you're going to be
able to come back and then workwith your experts that you have
(31:42):
in-house to start to ask theright questions, to set the
right expectations, because Idon't think it's intentional
that we don't set the rightexpectations.
I think we're overly optimisticand we don't know how to ask
the right questions, to setourselves in the right lane, and
so that's why I'm so passionateabout the executive team and
(32:04):
leaders within an organizationlearning that but then also
building those skills on yourteam so that they can support
your digital initiatives Again,kind of all rowing in that same
direction.
Back to your vision again.
Greg Hamlin (32:16):
That's great.
I think you know that's one ofthe things I've seen in my own
staff different places that I'veworked is just if they can
understand what's coming andthey have enough of an
understanding of how it getsdone.
You don't have to be experts,like you said.
But if you don't know how itgets done, then it makes it
really hard.
And I can even think of timeswhere we've had somebody suggest
well, why can't we have abutton that if I click it'll do
(32:38):
this, and then we talk aboutokay, we could do that,
anything's really possible.
But do you realize how much timethat would take?
Let's talk about, if we were tospend this much time doing that
, what other things could we bedoing for you that might benefit
you more in understanding thatpiece, because I think for a lot
of frontline employees they maylook at the technology side as
(32:59):
almost wizardry, right, likesomebody is waving a wand back
there and just making it happen,and they don't understand that.
Like, well, that ask ispossible, but we would have to
sacrifice some other thingsbecause there's going to be
trade-offs in how much time wehave to make the magic happen
Anything.
You want to add to that, sam,you're on that other side.
Sam Neer (33:17):
Yeah, and again, it's like we wish we had our magic
wands.
I wake up every morning wishingfor the genie and just asking
for a magic wand for productdevelopment, and then my wife
would say you should probablyget better wishes next time.
All that to say is from thetechnology side.
It's like expectation settingis so important.
I love what you said, emmanuel.
You as well, greg is we need topick apart these items.
The big red button that solvesmy world hunger.
(33:38):
Well, maybe you don't knowabout the regulatory reporting
component underneath that.
Maybe you don't know.
Hey, downstream vendors rely onthis step to be able to fill in
this field.
And maybe, greg we talked aboutthis when I was on the podcast
maybe there's 11 steps, maybe wedon't need all 11, but maybe we
still need these three, right?
So sometimes we think aboutabsolutes, like it has to be an
(33:59):
all or nothing, but can we pickit apart just to try to get
underneath the surface there?
So, sort of building on this, Iwould sort of ask, like
selfishly, I'm very interestedto think is are there any
practical ways that you can useto ensure this user adoption?
Right, like again, it's likeyou know there's, everyone wants
it, everyone says, yeah, I'm onboard.
But then you know when rubbermeets the road.
(34:19):
Sometimes there's a big gapbetween everyone verbally buying
in and then actually making thecommitment to do so.
So have you seen anythingthat's worked in the past to be
able to actually rally aroundthat idea of actually putting
boots on the ground and gettingher done?
Ema Roloff (34:35):
So again, I kind of mentioned that there's a couple
of things from a changemanagement perspective that I
boil it down to and I've saidthose before and I can dive into
specifically where I thinkthey'll support this idea.
So again, it's having thatclear vision and a why behind
the change, and that is going tobe, honestly, I think that
(34:55):
that's the biggest piece.
And as an executive, you setthat vision.
You are not solely responsiblefor making sure that that why
gets down to every level, and soyou have to have tight
alignment with your leaders andyour managers within your
business to help make sure thatthey're doing the work to get
that why actually down to everyindividual within the company.
(35:16):
And so once you have that again, you've got that why.
Then the communication piece isagain where I think the rubber
hits the road in terms of how totruly make sure that you're
getting that adoption.
And I always say you have tocommunicate the good, the bad
and the ugly along the way, andI don't think you can
over-communicate during animplementation.
(35:38):
And I think part of thatcommunication has to be
bi-directional communication asyou're going through an
implementation.
That's not to say because it'snot realistic to have every
employee provide their feedback.
It's not realistic to say thateverybody's in design meetings,
because we know that you'd neverget anything done if that was
the case.
But where I do think that youneed to be thoughtful is as
(36:20):
you're working with departmentspulling key people in that you
know have that kind of like.
We all know that person in thedepartment that everyone goes to
to ask questions that has allof this institutional knowledge
and knows the why behindeverything, and we all know who
that person is in a departmentand they're usually also a big
part of getting adoption.
So if you can get that personthat has that institutional
knowledge and has all of thatgold inside of their mind into
the engagement in some capacity,even at like a testing or
(36:42):
planning you know, planningsessions, whatever portion of
that process that you can bringthem into and genuinely take
their feedback not everythingyou don't have to, like you know
, do exactly what they'retelling you, but genuinely take
their feedback, hear it andadopt some of that into the
solution, then you have the mostimportant advocate for adopting
(37:04):
that solution on your side.
And the reason that I say thatthis is so effective is that
sometimes those people are thepeople that are the hardest to
win over to the change becausethey're the ones that are used
to the way that it's done.
They don't want it to change.
They don't want their status asthat knowledge source to be
(37:24):
questioned or taken away, andthat can be a scary thing.
But if they feel like they'vebeen a part of shaping that
solution, some of that fearstarts to dissipate and again
it's kind of like the leader ofthe pack all of a sudden starts
to see the value in it and then,once they feel that the
solution is going to make theirjob easier and that it's
developed in a way that's goingto help, all of a sudden starts
to see the value in it.
And then, once they feel thatthe solution is gonna make their
job easier and that it'sdeveloped in a way that's gonna
(37:47):
help them be effective, they'regoing to adopt it and they're
gonna tell other people why theyshould do it and they're going
to help you get that whycommunicated across the
department far more effectivelythan you ever could as a leader,
without living and breathing intheir shoes every day.
So that communication, thatbi-directional communication, I
think is the most important part, but then also kind of going to
(38:09):
that celebrating small winsalong the way, celebrate the
fact that they were involved inbeing a part of shaping the
solution, thank them for thetime that they put forward into
making it something that's goingto be really effective for the
rest of the team.
Forward into making itsomething that's going to be
really effective for the rest ofthe team and use that as an
additional communicationmechanism to get people to know
(38:30):
that you didn't do it in a siloand that you had that
bi-directional communication tomake sure that you were ending
up with the best product thatyou could.
And it sounds really Again, tome it sounds kind of easy.
It's not necessarily easy to do, but it's also not the most
difficult part of yourtransformation that you're going
to have.
And when you can win over thosehard personalities, it makes
the rest of it so much easier.
Greg Hamlin (38:51):
I think you're spot on.
Each place that I've gone towork, I've had to come in and
part of the reason I was broughtin was to make change.
And each time and maybe not onthe digital side, but each time
there's some real challengeswith that and I think you hit on
.
One of the keys that has helpedme is you do have to find that
really knowledgeable skeptic andget that knowledgeable skeptic
(39:14):
on your side.
And I can remember a couple oftimes.
I remember one specific time wehad laid out the vision of what
things were going to change tomake things easier for people.
So they had time and theyweren't so overloaded and they
weren't so overworked.
And this one particularemployee came into me and she
was like she looks so mad andshe was waving her finger at me,
going I'm going to hold youaccountable that this is going
(39:36):
to happen.
And I said I want you to, Iwant you to come in my office
each week and let's talk aboutit.
And it was amazing to see ittook time, because these things
don't get fixed overnight.
But when she started to feellike you know what it is
changing and it is happening andI'm part of that things got a
lot better.
Ema Roloff (39:53):
I like that.
She waved her finger at you.
Oh yeah.
Sam Neer (39:58):
We all know that Finger pointing.
Greg Hamlin (40:01):
I remember thinking , oh boy, what have I got myself
into?
But it it.
Things got tremendously betterafter that time.
But you know, there there doesneed to be some trust.
That has to be built and forchange to be successful.
So I think we've talked aboutthis a lot already, but just
maybe to to top it off, we'vetalked about what makes change
hard versus easy, and I thinkwe've we've hit that pretty
(40:23):
pretty well.
But I wanted to end eachepisode this year talking about
something that people aregrateful for.
I'm really a big proponentabout putting good vibes in the
universe.
I feel like there's so muchnegativity out there, and so if
the one little thing that Gregcan do is to make sure we put
something good out there everycouple of weeks, I want to do it
.
So I wanted to ask you thatquestion what's something that
(40:46):
you're really grateful for?
Ema Roloff (40:48):
Well, I mean, I could give like the really
obvious answer of my family,which I hope everyone knows is
also a part of my gratefulnesspractice, but I so this is going
to sound a little woo woo, butagain, going back to putting
good into the world, right, I amreally thankful for a TikTok
(41:08):
that I found a couple of monthsago.
That was about like kind oflike this idea of manifestation
and gratefulness wrapped intoone, and I made a post about it
on LinkedIn and a TikTok andit's called lucky girl syndrome,
okay, and it was this TikTokthat these like college girls
made and it became a trend ononline.
That was this idea of like ifevery day, you say to yourself,
(41:31):
I'm the luckiest girl in theworld, or guy or whatever phrase
you want to use for yourself,but like, I'm the luckiest
person in the world and thingsare always working out for me,
even if I don't realize that theway that you see the world
changes.
And just even saying thatstatement, when you say that
statement, you immediately startto reflect on the things that
you're very grateful for in theworld and it just like starts
(41:53):
your day off in the rightdirection and then also just
kind of manifesting that beliefthat things will come back to
you in a positive matter andthat mindset is something that,
like I would say, has been inplace for the last couple of
months and it just makes youappreciate the things that are
happening in your life.
It makes you see opportunitywhere you might not have seen it
(42:14):
in the past and it makes youagain kind of going back to that
idea of what you're gratefulfor.
It gives you a reminder everysingle day on why you're the
luckiest person in the world andif you can reprogram your brain
to think that way, I think it'sa really powerful thing.
So when I'm thinking about that, immediately what pops into my
head every day is my family, andthen it goes to something
really positive that happenedthe day before, or people that I
(42:38):
have relationships with, thatin the industry that I know
building me up, friendships thatI've had for years.
You know, each day your brainwill go in a slightly different
direction, but it's just thislike really nice mindfulness
activity, and my husband thinksit's really funny because I go
for a walk around ourneighborhood and I say it out
loud.
(42:59):
I'm not being a crazy persontalking to myself.
Greg Hamlin (43:02):
No, I think it's so important.
What we say out loud and how wethink about the world changes
who we are, and that's why I'm areally big proponent of trying
to put those good things outthere.
One of the people I interviewedin a podcast oh, it's been a
couple of years ago is a partialpolygic quadriplegic and helps
people deal with pain, and theone thing she said and I don't
(43:24):
know if she came up with it orgot it from somewhere else, but
I've thought about it so manytimes since then is that which
we focus on, we enlarge andempower, and I really believe
that.
So if you're going to focus onpain, you're going to make that
pain bigger.
If we're going to focus on thethings we're grateful for, we're
going to blow those things upand make them bigger, and so I
love that idea of being theluckiest person in the world.
So I might try that, See howthat goes.
Sam Neer (43:46):
I'll say luckiest guy I'm going to stop stealing that
as well, trust me.
There's a lot of good mileageon that one.
Greg Hamlin (43:57):
Well, emma, thank you so much for spending some
time with us.
Sam, thank you for co-hostingwith me today.
I think this is a great topicand we were able to talk about
some things that are reallyimportant in the industry.
Just remind people to do right,think differently and don't
forget to care.
And that's it for this one.
Thanks everybody.
(44:45):
Thank you.
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