April 28, 2025 • 34 mins
In this heartfelt episode of "Adjusted," we explore life after catastrophic injury with Julie Greer, Senior Catastrophic Claims Specialist at Berkley Industrial Comp, and Steve Ehretsman, the late founder of Shamrock Prosthetics. When Steve lost his leg following a workplace accident, he identified a critical gap in the recovery process: the lack of coaching for the mental and physical challenges of adapting to life as an amputee. This experience, combined with his coaching background, inspired him to establish Shamrock Prosthetics, where his team adopts a unique approach to supporting amputees.
Julie and Steve share their insights on reconstructing lives after workplace amputations through innovative prosthetic solutions and empathetic claims management. Their collaboration highlights how listening to injured workers' goals and providing real-world functional testing can lead to better outcomes than standard prosthetic protocols.
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Season 9 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and Matthew Yehling.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg Hamlin (00:01):
This episode is dedicated to Steve Eritzman.
The world lost a special personon March 25th 2025.
Steve's personality was as bigas his heart.
After becoming an amputee,steve spent his life committed
to improving the lives of otherswith the same challenges.
We hope this episode givesthose who knew him a chance to
remember the passion he had forloving and serving others.
(00:22):
We miss you, Steve.
Hello everybody and welcome toAdjusted.
(00:42):
I'm your host, greg Hamlin, andI'm coming at you from
beautiful Birmingham, alabama,where spring has arrived, and
with me I have my co-host, mattYaling.
Matt, if you could say hello toeverybody.
Matthew Yehling (00:52):
Hello everybody .
This is Matthew Yaling.
I'm with Midwest Employers,Casualty, and I'm joining Greg
from St Louis, Missouri, alongthe banks of the mighty
Mississippi.
Looking forward to speaking toour two guests today.
Greg Hamlin (01:05):
Thank you, matt, and we do.
We have two guests today, soI'll let them each introduce
themselves.
Let's start with you, steve.
Steve Ehretsman (01:12):
Steve Ertzman, founder and CEO of Shamrock
Prosthetics, Two offices in thestate of Georgia, hailing out of
the Atlanta office where it'snice and warm down in the South.
Greg Hamlin (01:24):
Yeah, that's the best part.
I grew up in the Midwest, sothis time of year I'm always
grateful.
Now when we get to August andSeptember it kind of switches.
But you got to stay inside acouple months, no matter where
you live, unless you're inCalifornia, Correct?
So also with us is Julie.
Julie, if you could go aheadand introduce yourself.
Julie Greer (01:42):
Yep, I'm Julie Greer and I'm a senior
catastrophic specialist and I'mdown here, as I always say, in
the great state of Texas.
Greg Hamlin (01:50):
Thanks, Julie, Glad to have you.
Everything's bigger in Texas,right, Absolutely so.
I want to start this episodewith a question or a thought, I
guess, and that's for ouraudience.
Did you know that there areapproximately 20,000 workplace
amputations in the US each year,according to Bureau of Labor
Statistics?
When I saw that, I was actuallykind of blown away.
(02:14):
In the industry that we're in,we see these kinds of things
happen from time to time, andprobably a little bit more with
us, since we focus on highhazard industries but I think we
forget how life-changing anevent like that can be.
And so today, with my guests,we're going to talk through what
comes after that, what comesafter that kind of a
catastrophic loss, what's theprocess forward and what can we
(02:36):
do as carriers and providers tomake sure that their experience
on the other side is an amazingone with lots of opportunities.
So I wanted to start, Julie,with you and have you talk a
little bit about what's a life?
You're on our catastrophic teamhere at Berkeley.
What is a life in catastrophicclaims like for you?
(02:58):
A day in the life?
A?
Julie Greer (03:00):
day in the life.
Well, I'm actually just freshoff of two new cat claims this
past week and I think the bestway to describe it is organized
chaos.
You know, unlike our non-catclaims, you know where there's
more of a steady rhythm.
You know to the process thatyou can expand over a few days
or a few weeks.
With a cat claim there are alot more moving parts and you
know timing of the informationis just.
(03:21):
It's just exponentially morefast-paced and beyond the usual
investigation and obtainingdetails.
You know, surrounding loss, youknow there's this really urgent
need to determine the extent ofthe injuries, what are the
medical needs, and you have todo it really quickly and it's
oftentimes before I have any ofthe facts of the case you know
have even been determined.
And I think what helps is it'simperative that you know to have
(03:42):
an experienced team to helpnavigate the complexities.
And I do rely heavily on ourrisk managers.
You know they help partner withour customers from an
investigation standpoint.
And then my internal nursemanager.
She not only gains informationas to the loss and extent of
injuries, but she's the one thathelps coordinate with our
vendor partners.
You know, especially the fieldnurse manager who's going to be
instrumental in ensuring thatthe injured worker is getting
(04:04):
the best care possible.
In addition, I have a familythat needs support and guidance
to make sure they feel confidenttheir loved ones are getting
appropriate care and try toalleviate their fears as to what
they can expect as their familyembarks on this journey of
recovery.
Matthew Yehling (04:19):
Sure, I think that's an important thing, and a
lot is thrown at you from thatcatastrophic claim that's coming
in and most injured employeeshave no experience, or very
little experience, with workers'compensation right, so they
don't know all the benefits andwhat's going to be the process.
And each jurisdiction, eachstate, has an administrative
(04:42):
process for this and what you'reobligated to do and what you're
not obligated to do so.
A lot of times they hearsomebody say you should go get
an attorney, you should do thisbefore they've even spoken with
you.
So how do you approach that?
How do you get in front of thefamilies?
What's your goal when you'retrying to help someone navigate
this from the get-go?
Julie Greer (05:02):
I find it helps walking the family through not
only the treatment plan but thebenefits.
You know how work comp works.
I think that's really important.
They're very stressed aboutfinancial.
I mean, I think any of us thathave gone through any kind of
medical procedures you alwaysthink about the financial aspect
of it.
How are you going to afford it?
What are deductibles, that typeof thing?
So it's my job to walk themthrough work comp and how it's
(05:22):
different from health insurance.
You know as well as the type ofsupport.
You know the injured worker andfamily can expect from me or
nurse, case managers or anybodyelse that's partnering on the
file.
You know, with my experience,I'm able to share some key
things that'll help the injuredworker and the family, you know,
understand potential timelines,the types of treatment
available, and I think byunderstanding their concerns I'm
(05:43):
able to determine, like, if ashift of care might need to
occur.
And I think the thing I can'tstress enough, though, is
listening.
I think listening is key.
Not only is the injured workergoing through a very stressful
time, it's the family sometimesthat's impacted even more.
You know the injured worker hasa medical team around them.
That is there, that you knowthey can ask questions to, but
it's the family sometimes thatis out there without the kind of
(06:05):
support that the injured workermight have.
So it's very important that I'mthere, that I can alleviate
some of those uncertainties whenthey're dealing with this
catastrophic loss, and it's myjob to make sure that the
injured worker and family arecomfortable with how things are
progressing.
Greg Hamlin (06:19):
Julie, I love what you said about listening.
You know that's one of thethings I'm super passionate
about is empathy in workers'compensation, and I think
sometimes we get ourselves a badreputation.
Probably some of it unfair andsome of it fair, depending on
what our industry has done inthe past, but to me I feel like
that's so key.
We even did an internaltraining for our department.
(06:41):
We actually brought an expertin listening to work with our
adjusters because I feel thatpassionate about it.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up.
When you're dealing with thesechallenges in workers'
compensation, especially whenthere's been limb loss, what are
some of the things that youhave to work through for an
injured worker to make sure theyunderstand and actually I know
(07:03):
you've had several one that mayor may not end up in an
amputation and previous onesthat have and we'll get into
that a little bit more withSteve here in a minute.
But how do you navigate that?
Julie Greer (07:14):
Well, yes, part of it is, you know, if they are
going to have an amputation,it's you know.
What does that new normal looklike for them?
How do I help the injuredworker?
You know, basically reinventthemselves.
I mean, they're going to haveto overcome these obstacles.
What do they have to face?
And, you know, maybe get tothat point where they feel
valued and are once againcontributing in a way that makes
them feel whole again.
I think the piece that'scritical is that they feel that
(07:35):
there is that partnership, thatthey are going to have that kind
of support through the entireprocess and, you know, answer
the questions and make sure thatthey're prepared, not only
before they go through alife-altering surgery like this,
but what they can expectfollowing it when it comes to
the prosthetics and what theiroutlook on life might be.
And it's my job to make surethat I'm there to remove any of
(07:56):
those obstacles so they canfocus on getting better.
Matthew Yehling (07:59):
I think Steve introduced himself and I know
you guys have a background onhow you met.
But I think Steve introducedhimself and I know you guys have
a background on how you met.
But you know, maybe this wouldbe a little bit of time for
Steve to kind of explain how hegot into the industry, how
workers comp impacted his life,how he kind of turned around
some of that.
So you know, it's a long storythere, but maybe condense that
into like what makes youuniquely situated and we'll get
(08:21):
into how Julie and Steve kind ofcame upon each other in a
couple cases that we referencedalready.
But Steve, why don't you giveus a little background on you
and how you founded Shamrock?
Steve Ehretsman (08:33):
of 2001,.
It was a workplace incident.
I was walking into a fast foodrestaurant and a young kid was
learning how to drive.
He stepped on the gas insteadof the brake and smashed me in
another vehicle.
Subsequent a year and 13surgery later.
I didn't do well.
The last surgery wasn't belowthe knee amputation.
But the year is what I want tokind of focus on and that is
(08:56):
that I didn't really haveanybody I was really inspired by
or coached.
So the bad thing is, since itwas a workplace incident, I had
access to a vat of opioids andas a single guy, my mom came
down a couple of times fromCleveland, ohio.
(09:17):
But I didn't do well on themental aspect at all but when
you're not functional yourquality of life doesn't increase
, it decreases.
So, with both legs beingimpaired, you're on the couch,
you're in your bed and you'renot really getting around.
(09:39):
And I let the opioids I thoughtthey were Skittles and I was
chewing them way too much andway too often and it really, you
know, those only had more of anegative effect on my kind of
outlook.
That led me to really look atthe whole prosthetic space and
it's my lens as a patient, iswhat I created in purpose.
(10:01):
You know, with ShamrockProsthetics it's basically my
story personified into a companyand there are four other
amputees on staff that aren'tprosthetists, along with myself.
And you know we mentally coachpatients even before surgery or
right after.
And I go back to the coachingside because coaches are
(10:22):
motivators, they'redisciplinarians, but they can
really have that player or thatpatient in this case, see beyond
themselves and see a moreoptimistic way.
So Julie said one of our threewords that we is there, three
leaves in a shamrock.
The most important one is thereinvention side.
That is the last leaf in ourshamrock.
(10:44):
The first two are hope andinspiration.
But we've got to give thatpatient a new sense of hope
because they have a total newnormal of life.
Matthew Yehling (10:54):
Steve's really modest too, because you know he
has a background in sports andathletics and he has history of
coaching and you know he's sixfoot six foot six I don't know.
So he's got a history incoaching and basketball and this
will probably air in MarchMadness so.
But maybe just give us aglimpse of that, like who you
were before the injury and someof that Cause.
(11:15):
I think that's definitelyrelevant to your story too.
Steve Ehretsman (11:17):
Yeah, so worked in different sales and
marketing capacities for someworldwide beverage companies and
you know it was totallydifferent than what I'm, what
I'm doing on a daily basis as oftoday, or started the company
almost 10 years ago.
Greg Hamlin (11:33):
That's awesome, steve.
You know I grew up in Indiana,so, as a Hoosier, basketball is
in my DNA, so this is the timeof year I love and one thing
I've learned and I think we'reabout to have a coaching change
in my school but one thing I'velearned is that a great coach
can inspire and motivate and getmore out of people and help
them see a vision of an end goal, and one of the things that's
(11:55):
really challenging in thehealthcare industry is sometimes
that piece is missing.
I've talked a lot on otherepisodes.
I think the United Stateshealthcare system is fantastic
in many ways, but it really is ado it for you approach or a do
it by yourself approach.
There really isn't a whole lotof do it with you and there's a
desperate need for that,especially when we see our
(12:17):
injured workers who arestruggling through something
that they need somebody to walkalongside them.
Julie, talk to us a little bitabout how you introduced our
injured worker to Steve and whyyou went down that path.
You know, just as somebackground, this particular
state we don't direct care.
The injured worker is allowedto go where they please and we
(12:37):
have to authorize that.
So sometimes in these kinds ofscenarios.
As adjusters, we kind of checkthat box.
Okay, there's nothing I can do.
So, julie, kind of talk throughhow you approach this situation
and where Steve entered.
Julie Greer (12:50):
Well, I have an injured worker.
He's actually pretty amazing.
He's tackled his recoverypretty aggressively and has been
really focused, you know, onreturning to his pre-injury work
and activities, which is kindof atypical, especially when you
have a catastrophic injury, youknow.
Mind you, this injured worker,he was a crane operator and his
focus has been on returning tothat industry, which is, you
know, which is a remarkableattitude for him to have,
(13:12):
considering his injury, you know.
But during one of ourdiscussions he, you know he had
expressed his frustration withthe capabilities of his
prosthetic.
And you know we were gettingready to look at moving from the
body power to a mile electric.
And you know he'd been given acatalog to look through and you
know I was asking him about it.
He said, well, some of theattachments looked really cool,
but he didn't have any ideawhether any of those would even
(13:33):
meet his needs.
And I just, you know it wasreally unfortunate, but I really
sensed this resignation in histone.
Like this was it?
He was just going to have todeal with the ineffectiveness of
what he was given.
And it just so happened thatSteve had spoken at a conference
and it was pretty evident thatSteve's outlook is more outcome
focused, not profit oriented,and how he approached things was
(13:54):
really well aligned with withBerkeley's core values, you know
, particularly in that sense oflike, empowerment and community.
And you know like, while I canempathize with the interworker
regarding his injury, I reallydon't know what he's going
through.
I really felt like I couldlisten, but there's not a lot I
could other than what I knew of.
You know the medical and theprosthetics and what I knew
(14:15):
based on my experience.
But I can only empathize.
I've not been through it and Ireally thought that the injured
worker could connect with notonly Steve but his team, you
know, to kind of help them feelbetter about his future and get
the kind of expertise that mightactually get him what he needed
to get back to his pre-injuryjob.
So I reached out to Steve and Isaid, look, if nothing else, if
you could just speak with himand just make sure he has the
(14:39):
best that there is out there forhim to get back to where he
wanted to be, if nothing else,it'll be somebody that our
injury worker could connect withthat had been through what he
had been through.
Matthew Yehling (14:49):
So, steve, maybe this would be a good time.
When you speak to a newlyinjured, maybe know, maybe they
haven't lost their leg yetthey're being suggested that or
that's an option, or they'renewly amputated, like you know.
What are the steps you take inthat process?
How do you approach that from,you know, your historical
perspective, from the shamrockperspective?
You know, maybe close that gap,what Julie kind of identified,
(15:11):
sure, so I think it's importantto understand the individual.
Steve Ehretsman (15:14):
Julie kind of identified, sure.
So I think it's important tounderstand the individual.
I don't walk in or my otheramputees don't walk into the
room and say, matt, look, I'm anamputee, that's about them.
Or if it was me and I walked inand I said, matt, look at my
leg, that's about me.
And it's actually the patientthat is the most important
person in the room.
If you're going into a hospitalroom, they're the most
(15:42):
important person.
And really what we often do iswe often were asking a lot of
intrusive questions and you know, one of the first ones is,
first thing that came to yourmind when that PA or MD walked
in your room and said, matt,you're going to lose your leg or
your arm, because it'simportant to know where the
mental state is and if they'reseeing darkness or if they're
seeing any bit of light.
And I think a lot of otherquestions stem from that.
(16:04):
It typically goes on for 15, 20, 30 minutes and typically we're
walking around the room, sothey're seeing us kind of in a
functional way, but they haven'tseen our leg or our arm.
And I think the criticaljuncture is really the aha
moment is when we do reveal,when we do exhaust a lot of
(16:26):
questions and when we do revealthat, hey, I'm an amputee now,
it creates a whole differentconversation.
It creates a whole differentconversation because a lot of
the times they're answering in avery reserved way and they're
thinking that, okay, why is thisguy asking me all these
intrusive questions?
But then when they see theauthenticity of it, then they
look and go, okay, can we goback through those questions
(16:48):
again, because I want to answerthem in a truthful way.
Greg Hamlin (16:51):
So, steve, with our injured worker, when you had
that phone call with him, I knowone of his big goals was he
wanted to go back to driving andoperating heavy equipment and
he really felt like quite a bitof discouragement in that
process as he was trying tofigure out how to utilize a
prosthesis to be able to achievethat.
(17:12):
So how did you approach thatsituation to meet his unique
needs of a desire to return towork?
Steve Ehretsman (17:21):
Yeah.
So I think the initial call wehad and I'm going to include
Blake, who's one of myprosthetists we had a Zoom call
with said injured worker, who'sseveral states away, and it was
more of a you know, get to knowand really not talk about
prosthetics, you know, for thefirst 15, 20 minutes Because,
(17:42):
again, even if Julie said, heylook, I want you to go to
Shamrock, knowing it's severalstates away, I think there was a
little bit of hesitation fromthe beginning but we kind of
quickly turned that around.
So that initial phone call ledto more of a discovery phone
call, talking about shamrock andwhy, and this individual
(18:03):
already did some research on us.
And then we set up a second onewhere we really drilled down as
to what he's really wanting todo with this MyoElectric and
what different options he has.
So we had different demos andthen we really broke down what
the week is going to look like.
We have fabrication on site sowe can do things very quickly.
(18:27):
And he really wasn'tunderstanding that because there
were significant delays as towhere he was going prior to.
So he thought that was thenormal, normal thing and when we
were talking about you'd have atest socket within the first
day after getting casted, he waslike I you know true story If I
don't really like this or ifit's not going really well by
(18:49):
Wednesday, can I go home?
And I said, absolutely CertainlyI don't think it'll be that way
, but absolutely Well, by theend of the first day he looked
at me and he said this place isamazing on what you've already
done in a day, versus theseveral months that I had to go
(19:10):
through at a previous facility.
The selection and having him bea part of what I find in the
industry, in the O&P industry,that should not happen is the
prosthetist basically says okay,Greg, this is the device you're
getting.
The car industry doesn't workthat way, so why can't the
patient be a part of 50% of whatthe answer is and what the
(19:30):
patient is going to get?
So we pride ourselves in that.
On having a dual dialogue andhaving the patient be really
part of the decision you hit onthere.
Greg Hamlin (19:47):
I think that's really important is that
everybody knows workers' comp.
We pay at rates that a lot ofothers don't, and if it's
accepted claim, we're generallystuck with paying whatever that
number is.
And I know Julie's seen thisand I've seen this where we've
spent a whole lot of money onsome very, very expensive
processes that are socomplicated.
They sit on a shelf and theinjury worker doesn't use them,
which is sad because the wholepoint is to give them back their
(20:10):
life.
We want to do that.
So in this particular scenario,while we didn't have to take
these extra steps I know, julie,talk a little bit about what
you did for the injury workernow that he had decided you
wanted to pursue this further.
Obviously this was not in hisbackyard decided you wanted to
pursue this further.
Obviously this was not in hisbackyard.
So there were some steps youhad to take to make this
consultation happen, julie whatdid you do in that this
(20:37):
circumstance?
Julie Greer (20:37):
Well, the first step I mean he was very
skeptical and his wife was.
She was a pretty activeparticipant in his care, so I
had both of them and they wereopen to it.
But I could tell that they werevery skeptical.
And I think the first, thefirst key thing was actually
Steve's team meeting with bothhe and his wife and getting that
connection first, and fromthere it was what I told him I
would do, because they're a fewthousand miles away, is you know
(20:59):
?
I set it up where I knew whatSteve and his team would need as
far as time wise, his team seteverything up and I paid for
both of them to go to Atlanta tospend the entire week with
Steve's group, and it was againthe same thing reassuring them
that if it didn't gel, theyweren't seeing what they were
hoping to see, that that wouldbe the end of it.
But I really wanted him to atleast be open to that experience
(21:21):
and hopefully give him thatsupport that I feel like he had
been missing.
And one of the cool things and Idon't know, steve, if you do
this as a normal routine, butthe interworker on his own had
been going to union facilitiesto practice using the prosthetic
, that he did have operatingequipment.
He has some heavy equipment ofhis own on his property that he
(21:43):
was practicing.
But, steve, walk through whatyou did with him during the week
and where you took him, becauseI think the key is that he was
able to use his prosthetic inreal time and your team was
right there with him while hewas doing it to make the
adjustments.
And I think, if you can givesome of the details on that,
because I wasn't there but Iknow it makes for a really good
story.
On the whole week wasn't justbeing fitted for a prosthetic
Correct, the whole week wasn'tjust being fitted for a
(22:03):
prosthetic Correct.
Steve Ehretsman (22:04):
You know.
So, when Blake and I and thewhole clinical team when we were
kind of brainstorming okay,let's lay out the schedule, but
how do we have him use, you knowreal time, some of this very
heavy equipment, excavators, etcetera and it was probably the
best cold call I've ever donewhere I literally couldn't get
(22:24):
these folks to call me back andI wish I could give the name of
the company and they're treatedus fantastic, but couldn't get
anybody to call me back.
And so I just drove over about30 minutes away and walked in
and told them who I was and whatwhat I needed, kind of quickly
looked at me and was like, oh,you need to talk with this guy.
Okay.
So had a great meeting withthis gentleman and, you know,
(22:48):
set it up where, on day two,that injured worker and Blake on
my team we drove over to thisheavy machinery facility and
literally they rolled out thered carpet for us.
They had a simulator that weinitially were using.
Then we this injured workerjumped right into I think three
or four vehicles or machineryand was playing and literally
(23:12):
Blake was riding kind of withhim almost in the cab so we
would be able to see what hereally needs to have from my
electric hand.
And do we need to do anythingdifferent?
Do we need to tweak anythingfrom my electric hand and do we
need to do anything different?
Do we need to tweak anything?
And literally after thatafternoon probably three or four
hours of playing in the dirt hesaid I've never seen anything
(23:33):
like this and I'm so glad thatI'm here.
Matthew Yehling (23:36):
Yeah, I love that story.
I mean, I can't believe youjust didn't give him a catalog
to pick what devices he thoughtwould work best for him.
Not at all, not at all, not atall, not at all.
Yeah, you know, unfortunately,the reality is we can't get, you
know, everyone down to shamrock.
So are there some tips, like tohelp identify decent
prosthetics, or you know whatare good prosthetists, or how?
(23:58):
And then maybe, like, how areyou working with this individual
, like when he gets back to hishome, you know, is there a
prosthetist you can help sendhim to when he gets back?
Or, you know, do thosecontinued Zoom calls, like I
know there's some follow-upactivities, you know, on the
device and occupational therapyand all that?
So, a, like if I'm an analystor an adjuster somewhere, like
how do I identify who's going tobe able to work with my injured
(24:21):
employee the best?
And B, like you know, how do Ifollow up on that, that care and
that therapies that they needto ensure that they're using the
device properly there?
You know it's functional forthem and they're, you know, not
given something too soon that isgoing to end up in the closet
or on that shelf that we alludedto earlier.
So are there some tips that youcan help?
You know, and I know the answeris you know Shamrock's going to
(24:41):
be in all 50 states eventually.
Right, I'm just joking, I don'tknow, but you know like, or we
can send everybody down to you.
But what are some tips, maybefor the folks listening to this?
Steve Ehretsman (24:52):
I might kind of push that answer to Julie first
.
Julie Greer (24:56):
Well, in this particular case it's as an
adjuster.
I have to look financiallywhat's the most cost effective
way to manage my fall, and youknow we talk about the
prosthetic itself.
I already got that coveredthrough Shamrock.
The follow-up though is, youknow you got to price that in.
Obviously there's the annual.
You know sometimes that theyand it happened in this
particular case either theprosthetic malfunctions or
(25:18):
breaks, but Steve's group wasable to cover that.
So in this, in this particularcase he broke, steve was able to
get a temporary and then getthe one he had fixed pretty
quickly.
As far as local like those arethings I can coordinate.
You know, if he's going to haveyou know, kind of OT PT
following like a new, if he hashad revision surgery or if he's
getting a new prosthetic and heneeds some time to adapt to it
(25:40):
again, there's clearly reallygood facilities across the
country that can be managedlocally.
I don't think it's an issue froma logistics standpoint, working
with Shamrock, even though it'smany states over.
I mean an annual trip toShamrock to fine tune things.
You know we're talking a flightand maybe a day or two hotel
stay.
So in the scheme of things, itjust it makes financial sense
(26:03):
and you have to do that costbenefit analysis, though In the
long run I know I'll get abetter outcome the way I have it
set up now.
In fact, I'm looking at itagain for another soon to be
amputee up in Pennsylvania andSteve maybe talk through like
what you did for him with theprosthetic that he did get from
you brand new and he broke it, Ithink two weeks later or within
.
I think he just jumped right Iand he broke it, I think two
(26:25):
weeks later or within, I thinkhe just jumped right.
Steve Ehretsman (26:26):
I don't know what kind of equipment he was on
.
Yeah, so I think, matt, I'll goback and answer a little bit of
your question too.
I think, given O&P providersadvice, you know, I guess the
biggest thing that I would sayis imagine if it were you as a
patient, and instead of justpushing something to the patient
(26:59):
and not coaching them or notgiving them really all of the
insight and training to thedevice whether it be with my
great clinical team, I know thatwe can get a great outcome we
also have to make sure weeducate the patient to use it.
The last thing I would want isa call from Matt, julie or Greg
saying we just spent X amount ofthousands of dollars on a
(27:23):
device and it's sitting on ashelf.
So we really go through a lotof that, especially for our
upper extremity patients on theacceptance and understanding on
the education side of how to usethe device.
He immediately became a veryhigh end user and, look, things
are going to happen.
You're going to have a flattire in your car and you know
(27:44):
I've had a foot break off in abasketball game.
So things are going to happenand we knew that we had a we had
a good relationship with theactual manufacturer that that
made the hand and we got aloaner in right away send it to
him you know we're on virtuallywith him and got him up and
running.
So I applauded him when hebroke it, because it was
(28:10):
actually with the hand.
It wasn't our actual device andI'm not pushing the blame to
the manufacturer, but it issomething where they have now
actually made a better product,an attachment.
So hopefully that won't happenagain and if it does, then we'll
get it repaired again.
Matthew Yehling (28:27):
Yeah, and most of these devices have that right
manufacturer warranty for somelevel of time, you know.
And what about the fittings andsome of that stuff?
That where it's like maybe not,as, like you know, conducive to
have that flight back next, youknow where it's like.
Okay, can we get a sleevelocally versus fitting, you know
, are there tips around that?
There's a lot that goes intothese.
(28:47):
I think everyone thinks of likejust the device itself.
But, right, there's annualmaintenance on not just the
device but sleeves and fittingsand ointments, you know, in
physiological changes too.
Steve Ehretsman (28:58):
Yeah, I mean if , if he gains weight or loses
weight, that would potentiallychange what that that limb does.
And we've again.
That's that's part of theconsistent talk.
I mean he, he's now turned intoa great friend of mine.
He texts me during verydifferent programs on the
weekend If I'm watching golf,cause he knows I'm a golfer,
(29:19):
which he hates, but I think justdifferent things in keeping
Blake and Blake is always askinghim hey, how's everything?
I think on the small things,you know, matt the from a
fitting side, if in three months, let's say, he lost weight and
he's not hitting the electrodesinside of a socket, then we were
(29:40):
always in contact with them, soit's not something that we're
not made aware of.
And then I think that'ssomething that I go back to
Julie and say, okay, we need toplan to have him back out for a
week and get him refit.
The biggest thing that is thebiggest challenge also is
consistent communication, and Ialways make sure that we better
(30:02):
be on the front end of theconsistent communication with
our patients.
Greg Hamlin (30:05):
I love that and I feel like both you and Julie
have shown how important that isin this episode.
You know we don't get thesekinds of results without a lot
of listening, a lot ofcommunication, a lot of buy-in.
I see a lot in the industry orI know there's a practice
sometimes I call it the claimshammer which is if you don't do
X, then I'm going to stop yourbenefits, or if you don't do Y,
(30:27):
I'm going to do this to you.
And I think in this exampleit's the exact opposite of that.
It's showing empathy, it'sshowing gaining buy-in for the
best outcome and understandingthat if the injured worker's
outcome is fantastic, everybodywins.
Here.
The insurance carrier is goingto win because we're going to
pay less, because we're notgoing to be redoing stuff.
The injured worker is going towin and the prosthetic company
(30:51):
that's working with them isgoing to win.
And finding those partnershipsis where the magic really
happens in workers' comp.
And I would certainly encouragepeople who are listening, look
for those providers who arewilling to do those things and
look for those adjusters who arewilling to do those things,
because that's where the specialstuff happens and one of the
(31:11):
things, as we're wrapping thingsup.
That I've wanted to do on everyepisode is just talk about
gratitude.
I really feel like in the worldthat we live in, gratitude is
something we can't overlook, andif we put good I would say, if
you put good vibes out in theuniverse, good stuff comes back.
I just believe that to my core.
So one of the things I've triedto do with every episode is end
(31:33):
with something each person'sgrateful for.
So, steve, I want to start withyou, and it can be anything you
want, and then we'll go toJulie.
Steve Ehretsman (31:42):
Well, I've got to be a smart businessman and
say you know, I'm I'm gratefulfor Berkeley industrial comp.
That's number one, me too.
And I've got to give kudos toJulie.
I mean, if I work with a lot ofadjusters and man, if I had, if
everyone you know treated theirinjured worker like like Julie
has boy, it would be a lot lessstress, you know, on the body.
(32:03):
So big, big kudos to her.
And I got to give thanks to theman above and I've got to also
thank for my staff.
They're the ones.
I mean Blake had the pressureon him when the injured worker
was coming in and I'm sure hehad a little bit less sleep than
many but he performedoutstanding and overall
(32:24):
experience with that engineworker.
Greg Hamlin (32:26):
I'm very grateful for also Love that Steve,
Absolutely love that June.
Julie Greer (32:31):
You know I always say this.
You know I tell you all thetime, greg, I'm really grateful,
you know that I work for acompany like Berkeley.
You know that just it lets mecolor outside the lines and, you
know, do what's right, even ifit doesn't fit into that
jurisdictional box.
And you know, and along the wayyou know, I get to meet
exceptional people, people likeSteve and his team, and maybe
make a positive impact onsomeone's life.
(32:51):
And, you know, if we're lucky,we have a really successful
story to share with everybody.
Greg Hamlin (32:55):
I love that, Julie.
Well, I share both of yoursentiments in that I really do
feel like I have a lot ofgratitude for the people I get
to work with.
I really do feel like I have alot of gratitude for the people
I get to work with.
I work with some amazing peoplewho are doing really great
things, and I'm appreciative ofBerkeley of allowing me the
freedom to do that.
So we're in a great space and Iwould just encourage everyone.
(33:16):
One don't forget to be grateful.
Something as simple as livingin an age with hot showers is
pretty amazing, and if you canfill your life thinking about
those things, everything elsegoes a little bit easier.
And I also just remind ourlisteners it would mean a lot to
me and to each of us.
If you would like and sharethis episode, as well as
(33:36):
subscribe to future episodes, wewould love it if you would
leave a five-star review.
It helps other people find thispodcast, and so go over to your
preferred platform, whetherthat's Apple Podcasts or Spotify
.
Leave us a five-star rating anda positive review.
And again, we reminded ourlisteners to do right, think
(33:57):
differently and don't forget tocare.
And that's it for this episode,and we'll catch you in two
weeks.
Thanks, everybody.
This episode is dedicated to Steve Eritzman.
The world lost a special personon March 25th 2025.
Steve's personality was as bigas his heart.
After becoming an amputee,steve spent his life committed
to improving the lives of otherswith the same challenges.
We hope this episode givesthose who knew him a chance to
remember the passion he had forloving and serving others.
(00:22):
We miss you, Steve.
Hello everybody and welcome toAdjusted.
(00:42):
I'm your host, greg Hamlin, andI'm coming at you from
beautiful Birmingham, alabama,where spring has arrived, and
with me I have my co-host, mattYaling.
Matt, if you could say hello toeverybody.
Matthew Yehling (00:52):
Hello everybody .
This is Matthew Yaling.
I'm with Midwest Employers,Casualty, and I'm joining Greg
from St Louis, Missouri, alongthe banks of the mighty
Mississippi.
Looking forward to speaking toour two guests today.
Greg Hamlin (01:05):
Thank you, matt, and we do.
We have two guests today, soI'll let them each introduce
themselves.
Let's start with you, steve.
Steve Ehretsman (01:12):
Steve Ertzman, founder and CEO of Shamrock
Prosthetics, Two offices in thestate of Georgia, hailing out of
the Atlanta office where it'snice and warm down in the South.
Greg Hamlin (01:24):
Yeah, that's the best part.
I grew up in the Midwest, sothis time of year I'm always
grateful.
Now when we get to August andSeptember it kind of switches.
But you got to stay inside acouple months, no matter where
you live, unless you're inCalifornia, Correct?
So also with us is Julie.
Julie, if you could go aheadand introduce yourself.
Julie Greer (01:42):
Yep, I'm Julie Greer and I'm a senior
catastrophic specialist and I'mdown here, as I always say, in
the great state of Texas.
Greg Hamlin (01:50):
Thanks, Julie, Glad to have you.
Everything's bigger in Texas,right, Absolutely so.
I want to start this episodewith a question or a thought, I
guess, and that's for ouraudience.
Did you know that there areapproximately 20,000 workplace
amputations in the US each year,according to Bureau of Labor
Statistics?
When I saw that, I was actuallykind of blown away.
(02:14):
In the industry that we're in,we see these kinds of things
happen from time to time, andprobably a little bit more with
us, since we focus on highhazard industries but I think we
forget how life-changing anevent like that can be.
And so today, with my guests,we're going to talk through what
comes after that, what comesafter that kind of a
catastrophic loss, what's theprocess forward and what can we
(02:36):
do as carriers and providers tomake sure that their experience
on the other side is an amazingone with lots of opportunities.
So I wanted to start, Julie,with you and have you talk a
little bit about what's a life?
You're on our catastrophic teamhere at Berkeley.
What is a life in catastrophicclaims like for you?
(02:58):
A day in the life?
A?
Julie Greer (03:00):
day in the life.
Well, I'm actually just freshoff of two new cat claims this
past week and I think the bestway to describe it is organized
chaos.
You know, unlike our non-catclaims, you know where there's
more of a steady rhythm.
You know to the process thatyou can expand over a few days
or a few weeks.
With a cat claim there are alot more moving parts and you
know timing of the informationis just.
(03:21):
It's just exponentially morefast-paced and beyond the usual
investigation and obtainingdetails.
You know, surrounding loss, youknow there's this really urgent
need to determine the extent ofthe injuries, what are the
medical needs, and you have todo it really quickly and it's
oftentimes before I have any ofthe facts of the case you know
have even been determined.
And I think what helps is it'simperative that you know to have
(03:42):
an experienced team to helpnavigate the complexities.
And I do rely heavily on ourrisk managers.
You know they help partner withour customers from an
investigation standpoint.
And then my internal nursemanager.
She not only gains informationas to the loss and extent of
injuries, but she's the one thathelps coordinate with our
vendor partners.
You know, especially the fieldnurse manager who's going to be
instrumental in ensuring thatthe injured worker is getting
(04:04):
the best care possible.
In addition, I have a familythat needs support and guidance
to make sure they feel confidenttheir loved ones are getting
appropriate care and try toalleviate their fears as to what
they can expect as their familyembarks on this journey of
recovery.
Matthew Yehling (04:19):
Sure, I think that's an important thing, and a
lot is thrown at you from thatcatastrophic claim that's coming
in and most injured employeeshave no experience, or very
little experience, with workers'compensation right, so they
don't know all the benefits andwhat's going to be the process.
And each jurisdiction, eachstate, has an administrative
(04:42):
process for this and what you'reobligated to do and what you're
not obligated to do so.
A lot of times they hearsomebody say you should go get
an attorney, you should do thisbefore they've even spoken with
you.
So how do you approach that?
How do you get in front of thefamilies?
What's your goal when you'retrying to help someone navigate
this from the get-go?
Julie Greer (05:02):
I find it helps walking the family through not
only the treatment plan but thebenefits.
You know how work comp works.
I think that's really important.
They're very stressed aboutfinancial.
I mean, I think any of us thathave gone through any kind of
medical procedures you alwaysthink about the financial aspect
of it.
How are you going to afford it?
What are deductibles, that typeof thing?
So it's my job to walk themthrough work comp and how it's
(05:22):
different from health insurance.
You know as well as the type ofsupport.
You know the injured worker andfamily can expect from me or
nurse, case managers or anybodyelse that's partnering on the
file.
You know, with my experience,I'm able to share some key
things that'll help the injuredworker and the family, you know,
understand potential timelines,the types of treatment
available, and I think byunderstanding their concerns I'm
(05:43):
able to determine, like, if ashift of care might need to
occur.
And I think the thing I can'tstress enough, though, is
listening.
I think listening is key.
Not only is the injured workergoing through a very stressful
time, it's the family sometimesthat's impacted even more.
You know the injured worker hasa medical team around them.
That is there, that you knowthey can ask questions to, but
it's the family sometimes thatis out there without the kind of
(06:05):
support that the injured workermight have.
So it's very important that I'mthere, that I can alleviate
some of those uncertainties whenthey're dealing with this
catastrophic loss, and it's myjob to make sure that the
injured worker and family arecomfortable with how things are
progressing.
Greg Hamlin (06:19):
Julie, I love what you said about listening.
You know that's one of thethings I'm super passionate
about is empathy in workers'compensation, and I think
sometimes we get ourselves a badreputation.
Probably some of it unfair andsome of it fair, depending on
what our industry has done inthe past, but to me I feel like
that's so key.
We even did an internaltraining for our department.
(06:41):
We actually brought an expertin listening to work with our
adjusters because I feel thatpassionate about it.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up.
When you're dealing with thesechallenges in workers'
compensation, especially whenthere's been limb loss, what are
some of the things that youhave to work through for an
injured worker to make sure theyunderstand and actually I know
(07:03):
you've had several one that mayor may not end up in an
amputation and previous onesthat have and we'll get into
that a little bit more withSteve here in a minute.
But how do you navigate that?
Julie Greer (07:14):
Well, yes, part of it is, you know, if they are
going to have an amputation,it's you know.
What does that new normal looklike for them?
How do I help the injuredworker?
You know, basically reinventthemselves.
I mean, they're going to haveto overcome these obstacles.
What do they have to face?
And, you know, maybe get tothat point where they feel
valued and are once againcontributing in a way that makes
them feel whole again.
I think the piece that'scritical is that they feel that
(07:35):
there is that partnership, thatthey are going to have that kind
of support through the entireprocess and, you know, answer
the questions and make sure thatthey're prepared, not only
before they go through alife-altering surgery like this,
but what they can expectfollowing it when it comes to
the prosthetics and what theiroutlook on life might be.
And it's my job to make surethat I'm there to remove any of
(07:56):
those obstacles so they canfocus on getting better.
Matthew Yehling (07:59):
I think Steve introduced himself and I know
you guys have a background onhow you met.
But I think Steve introducedhimself and I know you guys have
a background on how you met.
But you know, maybe this wouldbe a little bit of time for
Steve to kind of explain how hegot into the industry, how
workers comp impacted his life,how he kind of turned around
some of that.
So you know, it's a long storythere, but maybe condense that
into like what makes youuniquely situated and we'll get
(08:21):
into how Julie and Steve kind ofcame upon each other in a
couple cases that we referencedalready.
But Steve, why don't you giveus a little background on you
and how you founded Shamrock?
Steve Ehretsman (08:33):
of 2001,.
It was a workplace incident.
I was walking into a fast foodrestaurant and a young kid was
learning how to drive.
He stepped on the gas insteadof the brake and smashed me in
another vehicle.
Subsequent a year and 13surgery later.
I didn't do well.
The last surgery wasn't belowthe knee amputation.
But the year is what I want tokind of focus on and that is
(08:56):
that I didn't really haveanybody I was really inspired by
or coached.
So the bad thing is, since itwas a workplace incident, I had
access to a vat of opioids andas a single guy, my mom came
down a couple of times fromCleveland, ohio.
(09:17):
But I didn't do well on themental aspect at all but when
you're not functional yourquality of life doesn't increase
, it decreases.
So, with both legs beingimpaired, you're on the couch,
you're in your bed and you'renot really getting around.
(09:39):
And I let the opioids I thoughtthey were Skittles and I was
chewing them way too much andway too often and it really, you
know, those only had more of anegative effect on my kind of
outlook.
That led me to really look atthe whole prosthetic space and
it's my lens as a patient, iswhat I created in purpose.
(10:01):
You know, with ShamrockProsthetics it's basically my
story personified into a companyand there are four other
amputees on staff that aren'tprosthetists, along with myself.
And you know we mentally coachpatients even before surgery or
right after.
And I go back to the coachingside because coaches are
(10:22):
motivators, they'redisciplinarians, but they can
really have that player or thatpatient in this case, see beyond
themselves and see a moreoptimistic way.
So Julie said one of our threewords that we is there, three
leaves in a shamrock.
The most important one is thereinvention side.
That is the last leaf in ourshamrock.
(10:44):
The first two are hope andinspiration.
But we've got to give thatpatient a new sense of hope
because they have a total newnormal of life.
Matthew Yehling (10:54):
Steve's really modest too, because you know he
has a background in sports andathletics and he has history of
coaching and you know he's sixfoot six foot six I don't know.
So he's got a history incoaching and basketball and this
will probably air in MarchMadness so.
But maybe just give us aglimpse of that, like who you
were before the injury and someof that Cause.
(11:15):
I think that's definitelyrelevant to your story too.
Steve Ehretsman (11:17):
Yeah, so worked in different sales and
marketing capacities for someworldwide beverage companies and
you know it was totallydifferent than what I'm, what
I'm doing on a daily basis as oftoday, or started the company
almost 10 years ago.
Greg Hamlin (11:33):
That's awesome, steve.
You know I grew up in Indiana,so, as a Hoosier, basketball is
in my DNA, so this is the timeof year I love and one thing
I've learned and I think we'reabout to have a coaching change
in my school but one thing I'velearned is that a great coach
can inspire and motivate and getmore out of people and help
them see a vision of an end goal, and one of the things that's
(11:55):
really challenging in thehealthcare industry is sometimes
that piece is missing.
I've talked a lot on otherepisodes.
I think the United Stateshealthcare system is fantastic
in many ways, but it really is ado it for you approach or a do
it by yourself approach.
There really isn't a whole lotof do it with you and there's a
desperate need for that,especially when we see our
(12:17):
injured workers who arestruggling through something
that they need somebody to walkalongside them.
Julie, talk to us a little bitabout how you introduced our
injured worker to Steve and whyyou went down that path.
You know, just as somebackground, this particular
state we don't direct care.
The injured worker is allowedto go where they please and we
(12:37):
have to authorize that.
So sometimes in these kinds ofscenarios.
As adjusters, we kind of checkthat box.
Okay, there's nothing I can do.
So, julie, kind of talk throughhow you approach this situation
and where Steve entered.
Julie Greer (12:50):
Well, I have an injured worker.
He's actually pretty amazing.
He's tackled his recoverypretty aggressively and has been
really focused, you know, onreturning to his pre-injury work
and activities, which is kindof atypical, especially when you
have a catastrophic injury, youknow.
Mind you, this injured worker,he was a crane operator and his
focus has been on returning tothat industry, which is, you
know, which is a remarkableattitude for him to have,
(13:12):
considering his injury, you know.
But during one of ourdiscussions he, you know he had
expressed his frustration withthe capabilities of his
prosthetic.
And you know we were gettingready to look at moving from the
body power to a mile electric.
And you know he'd been given acatalog to look through and you
know I was asking him about it.
He said, well, some of theattachments looked really cool,
but he didn't have any ideawhether any of those would even
(13:33):
meet his needs.
And I just, you know it wasreally unfortunate, but I really
sensed this resignation in histone.
Like this was it?
He was just going to have todeal with the ineffectiveness of
what he was given.
And it just so happened thatSteve had spoken at a conference
and it was pretty evident thatSteve's outlook is more outcome
focused, not profit oriented,and how he approached things was
(13:54):
really well aligned with withBerkeley's core values, you know
, particularly in that sense oflike, empowerment and community.
And you know like, while I canempathize with the interworker
regarding his injury, I reallydon't know what he's going
through.
I really felt like I couldlisten, but there's not a lot I
could other than what I knew of.
You know the medical and theprosthetics and what I knew
(14:15):
based on my experience.
But I can only empathize.
I've not been through it and Ireally thought that the injured
worker could connect with notonly Steve but his team, you
know, to kind of help them feelbetter about his future and get
the kind of expertise that mightactually get him what he needed
to get back to his pre-injuryjob.
So I reached out to Steve and Isaid, look, if nothing else, if
you could just speak with himand just make sure he has the
(14:39):
best that there is out there forhim to get back to where he
wanted to be, if nothing else,it'll be somebody that our
injury worker could connect withthat had been through what he
had been through.
Matthew Yehling (14:49):
So, steve, maybe this would be a good time.
When you speak to a newlyinjured, maybe know, maybe they
haven't lost their leg yetthey're being suggested that or
that's an option, or they'renewly amputated, like you know.
What are the steps you take inthat process?
How do you approach that from,you know, your historical
perspective, from the shamrockperspective?
You know, maybe close that gap,what Julie kind of identified,
(15:11):
sure, so I think it's importantto understand the individual.
Steve Ehretsman (15:14):
Julie kind of identified, sure.
So I think it's important tounderstand the individual.
I don't walk in or my otheramputees don't walk into the
room and say, matt, look, I'm anamputee, that's about them.
Or if it was me and I walked inand I said, matt, look at my
leg, that's about me.
And it's actually the patientthat is the most important
person in the room.
If you're going into a hospitalroom, they're the most
(15:42):
important person.
And really what we often do iswe often were asking a lot of
intrusive questions and you know, one of the first ones is,
first thing that came to yourmind when that PA or MD walked
in your room and said, matt,you're going to lose your leg or
your arm, because it'simportant to know where the
mental state is and if they'reseeing darkness or if they're
seeing any bit of light.
And I think a lot of otherquestions stem from that.
(16:04):
It typically goes on for 15, 20, 30 minutes and typically we're
walking around the room, sothey're seeing us kind of in a
functional way, but they haven'tseen our leg or our arm.
And I think the criticaljuncture is really the aha
moment is when we do reveal,when we do exhaust a lot of
(16:26):
questions and when we do revealthat, hey, I'm an amputee now,
it creates a whole differentconversation.
It creates a whole differentconversation because a lot of
the times they're answering in avery reserved way and they're
thinking that, okay, why is thisguy asking me all these
intrusive questions?
But then when they see theauthenticity of it, then they
look and go, okay, can we goback through those questions
(16:48):
again, because I want to answerthem in a truthful way.
Greg Hamlin (16:51):
So, steve, with our injured worker, when you had
that phone call with him, I knowone of his big goals was he
wanted to go back to driving andoperating heavy equipment and
he really felt like quite a bitof discouragement in that
process as he was trying tofigure out how to utilize a
prosthesis to be able to achievethat.
(17:12):
So how did you approach thatsituation to meet his unique
needs of a desire to return towork?
Steve Ehretsman (17:21):
Yeah.
So I think the initial call wehad and I'm going to include
Blake, who's one of myprosthetists we had a Zoom call
with said injured worker, who'sseveral states away, and it was
more of a you know, get to knowand really not talk about
prosthetics, you know, for thefirst 15, 20 minutes Because,
(17:42):
again, even if Julie said, heylook, I want you to go to
Shamrock, knowing it's severalstates away, I think there was a
little bit of hesitation fromthe beginning but we kind of
quickly turned that around.
So that initial phone call ledto more of a discovery phone
call, talking about shamrock andwhy, and this individual
(18:03):
already did some research on us.
And then we set up a second onewhere we really drilled down as
to what he's really wanting todo with this MyoElectric and
what different options he has.
So we had different demos andthen we really broke down what
the week is going to look like.
We have fabrication on site sowe can do things very quickly.
(18:27):
And he really wasn'tunderstanding that because there
were significant delays as towhere he was going prior to.
So he thought that was thenormal, normal thing and when we
were talking about you'd have atest socket within the first
day after getting casted, he waslike I you know true story If I
don't really like this or ifit's not going really well by
(18:49):
Wednesday, can I go home?
And I said, absolutely CertainlyI don't think it'll be that way
, but absolutely Well, by theend of the first day he looked
at me and he said this place isamazing on what you've already
done in a day, versus theseveral months that I had to go
(19:10):
through at a previous facility.
The selection and having him bea part of what I find in the
industry, in the O&P industry,that should not happen is the
prosthetist basically says okay,Greg, this is the device you're
getting.
The car industry doesn't workthat way, so why can't the
patient be a part of 50% of whatthe answer is and what the
(19:30):
patient is going to get?
So we pride ourselves in that.
On having a dual dialogue andhaving the patient be really
part of the decision you hit onthere.
Greg Hamlin (19:47):
I think that's really important is that
everybody knows workers' comp.
We pay at rates that a lot ofothers don't, and if it's
accepted claim, we're generallystuck with paying whatever that
number is.
And I know Julie's seen thisand I've seen this where we've
spent a whole lot of money onsome very, very expensive
processes that are socomplicated.
They sit on a shelf and theinjury worker doesn't use them,
which is sad because the wholepoint is to give them back their
(20:10):
life.
We want to do that.
So in this particular scenario,while we didn't have to take
these extra steps I know, julie,talk a little bit about what
you did for the injury workernow that he had decided you
wanted to pursue this further.
Obviously this was not in hisbackyard decided you wanted to
pursue this further.
Obviously this was not in hisbackyard.
So there were some steps youhad to take to make this
consultation happen, julie whatdid you do in that this
(20:37):
circumstance?
Julie Greer (20:37):
Well, the first step I mean he was very
skeptical and his wife was.
She was a pretty activeparticipant in his care, so I
had both of them and they wereopen to it.
But I could tell that they werevery skeptical.
And I think the first, thefirst key thing was actually
Steve's team meeting with bothhe and his wife and getting that
connection first, and fromthere it was what I told him I
would do, because they're a fewthousand miles away, is you know
(20:59):
?
I set it up where I knew whatSteve and his team would need as
far as time wise, his team seteverything up and I paid for
both of them to go to Atlanta tospend the entire week with
Steve's group, and it was againthe same thing reassuring them
that if it didn't gel, theyweren't seeing what they were
hoping to see, that that wouldbe the end of it.
But I really wanted him to atleast be open to that experience
(21:21):
and hopefully give him thatsupport that I feel like he had
been missing.
And one of the cool things and Idon't know, steve, if you do
this as a normal routine, butthe interworker on his own had
been going to union facilitiesto practice using the prosthetic
, that he did have operatingequipment.
He has some heavy equipment ofhis own on his property that he
(21:43):
was practicing.
But, steve, walk through whatyou did with him during the week
and where you took him, becauseI think the key is that he was
able to use his prosthetic inreal time and your team was
right there with him while hewas doing it to make the
adjustments.
And I think, if you can givesome of the details on that,
because I wasn't there but Iknow it makes for a really good
story.
On the whole week wasn't justbeing fitted for a prosthetic
Correct, the whole week wasn'tjust being fitted for a
(22:03):
prosthetic Correct.
Steve Ehretsman (22:04):
You know.
So, when Blake and I and thewhole clinical team when we were
kind of brainstorming okay,let's lay out the schedule, but
how do we have him use, you knowreal time, some of this very
heavy equipment, excavators, etcetera and it was probably the
best cold call I've ever donewhere I literally couldn't get
(22:24):
these folks to call me back andI wish I could give the name of
the company and they're treatedus fantastic, but couldn't get
anybody to call me back.
And so I just drove over about30 minutes away and walked in
and told them who I was and whatwhat I needed, kind of quickly
looked at me and was like, oh,you need to talk with this guy.
Okay.
So had a great meeting withthis gentleman and, you know,
(22:48):
set it up where, on day two,that injured worker and Blake on
my team we drove over to thisheavy machinery facility and
literally they rolled out thered carpet for us.
They had a simulator that weinitially were using.
Then we this injured workerjumped right into I think three
or four vehicles or machineryand was playing and literally
(23:12):
Blake was riding kind of withhim almost in the cab so we
would be able to see what hereally needs to have from my
electric hand.
And do we need to do anythingdifferent?
Do we need to tweak anythingfrom my electric hand and do we
need to do anything different?
Do we need to tweak anything?
And literally after thatafternoon probably three or four
hours of playing in the dirt hesaid I've never seen anything
(23:33):
like this and I'm so glad thatI'm here.
Matthew Yehling (23:36):
Yeah, I love that story.
I mean, I can't believe youjust didn't give him a catalog
to pick what devices he thoughtwould work best for him.
Not at all, not at all, not atall, not at all.
Yeah, you know, unfortunately,the reality is we can't get, you
know, everyone down to shamrock.
So are there some tips, like tohelp identify decent
prosthetics, or you know whatare good prosthetists, or how?
(23:58):
And then maybe, like, how areyou working with this individual
, like when he gets back to hishome, you know, is there a
prosthetist you can help sendhim to when he gets back?
Or, you know, do thosecontinued Zoom calls, like I
know there's some follow-upactivities, you know, on the
device and occupational therapyand all that?
So, a, like if I'm an analystor an adjuster somewhere, like
how do I identify who's going tobe able to work with my injured
(24:21):
employee the best?
And B, like you know, how do Ifollow up on that, that care and
that therapies that they needto ensure that they're using the
device properly there?
You know it's functional forthem and they're, you know, not
given something too soon that isgoing to end up in the closet
or on that shelf that we alludedto earlier.
So are there some tips that youcan help?
You know, and I know the answeris you know Shamrock's going to
(24:41):
be in all 50 states eventually.
Right, I'm just joking, I don'tknow, but you know like, or we
can send everybody down to you.
But what are some tips, maybefor the folks listening to this?
Steve Ehretsman (24:52):
I might kind of push that answer to Julie first
.
Julie Greer (24:56):
Well, in this particular case it's as an
adjuster.
I have to look financiallywhat's the most cost effective
way to manage my fall, and youknow we talk about the
prosthetic itself.
I already got that coveredthrough Shamrock.
The follow-up though is, youknow you got to price that in.
Obviously there's the annual.
You know sometimes that theyand it happened in this
particular case either theprosthetic malfunctions or
(25:18):
breaks, but Steve's group wasable to cover that.
So in this, in this particularcase he broke, steve was able to
get a temporary and then getthe one he had fixed pretty
quickly.
As far as local like those arethings I can coordinate.
You know, if he's going to haveyou know, kind of OT PT
following like a new, if he hashad revision surgery or if he's
getting a new prosthetic and heneeds some time to adapt to it
(25:40):
again, there's clearly reallygood facilities across the
country that can be managedlocally.
I don't think it's an issue froma logistics standpoint, working
with Shamrock, even though it'smany states over.
I mean an annual trip toShamrock to fine tune things.
You know we're talking a flightand maybe a day or two hotel
stay.
So in the scheme of things, itjust it makes financial sense
(26:03):
and you have to do that costbenefit analysis, though In the
long run I know I'll get abetter outcome the way I have it
set up now.
In fact, I'm looking at itagain for another soon to be
amputee up in Pennsylvania andSteve maybe talk through like
what you did for him with theprosthetic that he did get from
you brand new and he broke it, Ithink two weeks later or within
.
I think he just jumped right Iand he broke it, I think two
(26:25):
weeks later or within, I thinkhe just jumped right.
Steve Ehretsman (26:26):
I don't know what kind of equipment he was on
.
Yeah, so I think, matt, I'll goback and answer a little bit of
your question too.
I think, given O&P providersadvice, you know, I guess the
biggest thing that I would sayis imagine if it were you as a
patient, and instead of justpushing something to the patient
(26:59):
and not coaching them or notgiving them really all of the
insight and training to thedevice whether it be with my
great clinical team, I know thatwe can get a great outcome we
also have to make sure weeducate the patient to use it.
The last thing I would want isa call from Matt, julie or Greg
saying we just spent X amount ofthousands of dollars on a
(27:23):
device and it's sitting on ashelf.
So we really go through a lotof that, especially for our
upper extremity patients on theacceptance and understanding on
the education side of how to usethe device.
He immediately became a veryhigh end user and, look, things
are going to happen.
You're going to have a flattire in your car and you know
(27:44):
I've had a foot break off in abasketball game.
So things are going to happenand we knew that we had a we had
a good relationship with theactual manufacturer that that
made the hand and we got aloaner in right away send it to
him you know we're on virtuallywith him and got him up and
running.
So I applauded him when hebroke it, because it was
(28:10):
actually with the hand.
It wasn't our actual device andI'm not pushing the blame to
the manufacturer, but it issomething where they have now
actually made a better product,an attachment.
So hopefully that won't happenagain and if it does, then we'll
get it repaired again.
Matthew Yehling (28:27):
Yeah, and most of these devices have that right
manufacturer warranty for somelevel of time, you know.
And what about the fittings andsome of that stuff?
That where it's like maybe not,as, like you know, conducive to
have that flight back next, youknow where it's like.
Okay, can we get a sleevelocally versus fitting, you know
, are there tips around that?
There's a lot that goes intothese.
(28:47):
I think everyone thinks of likejust the device itself.
But, right, there's annualmaintenance on not just the
device but sleeves and fittingsand ointments, you know, in
physiological changes too.
Steve Ehretsman (28:58):
Yeah, I mean if , if he gains weight or loses
weight, that would potentiallychange what that that limb does.
And we've again.
That's that's part of theconsistent talk.
I mean he, he's now turned intoa great friend of mine.
He texts me during verydifferent programs on the
weekend If I'm watching golf,cause he knows I'm a golfer,
(29:19):
which he hates, but I think justdifferent things in keeping
Blake and Blake is always askinghim hey, how's everything?
I think on the small things,you know, matt the from a
fitting side, if in three months, let's say, he lost weight and
he's not hitting the electrodesinside of a socket, then we were
(29:40):
always in contact with them, soit's not something that we're
not made aware of.
And then I think that'ssomething that I go back to
Julie and say, okay, we need toplan to have him back out for a
week and get him refit.
The biggest thing that is thebiggest challenge also is
consistent communication, and Ialways make sure that we better
(30:02):
be on the front end of theconsistent communication with
our patients.
Greg Hamlin (30:05):
I love that and I feel like both you and Julie
have shown how important that isin this episode.
You know we don't get thesekinds of results without a lot
of listening, a lot ofcommunication, a lot of buy-in.
I see a lot in the industry orI know there's a practice
sometimes I call it the claimshammer which is if you don't do
X, then I'm going to stop yourbenefits, or if you don't do Y,
(30:27):
I'm going to do this to you.
And I think in this exampleit's the exact opposite of that.
It's showing empathy, it'sshowing gaining buy-in for the
best outcome and understandingthat if the injured worker's
outcome is fantastic, everybodywins.
Here.
The insurance carrier is goingto win because we're going to
pay less, because we're notgoing to be redoing stuff.
The injured worker is going towin and the prosthetic company
(30:51):
that's working with them isgoing to win.
And finding those partnershipsis where the magic really
happens in workers' comp.
And I would certainly encouragepeople who are listening, look
for those providers who arewilling to do those things and
look for those adjusters who arewilling to do those things,
because that's where the specialstuff happens and one of the
(31:11):
things, as we're wrapping thingsup.
That I've wanted to do on everyepisode is just talk about
gratitude.
I really feel like in the worldthat we live in, gratitude is
something we can't overlook, andif we put good I would say, if
you put good vibes out in theuniverse, good stuff comes back.
I just believe that to my core.
So one of the things I've triedto do with every episode is end
(31:33):
with something each person'sgrateful for.
So, steve, I want to start withyou, and it can be anything you
want, and then we'll go toJulie.
Steve Ehretsman (31:42):
Well, I've got to be a smart businessman and
say you know, I'm I'm gratefulfor Berkeley industrial comp.
That's number one, me too.
And I've got to give kudos toJulie.
I mean, if I work with a lot ofadjusters and man, if I had, if
everyone you know treated theirinjured worker like like Julie
has boy, it would be a lot lessstress, you know, on the body.
(32:03):
So big, big kudos to her.
And I got to give thanks to theman above and I've got to also
thank for my staff.
They're the ones.
I mean Blake had the pressureon him when the injured worker
was coming in and I'm sure hehad a little bit less sleep than
many but he performedoutstanding and overall
(32:24):
experience with that engineworker.
Greg Hamlin (32:26):
I'm very grateful for also Love that Steve,
Absolutely love that June.
Julie Greer (32:31):
You know I always say this.
You know I tell you all thetime, greg, I'm really grateful,
you know that I work for acompany like Berkeley.
You know that just it lets mecolor outside the lines and, you
know, do what's right, even ifit doesn't fit into that
jurisdictional box.
And you know, and along the wayyou know, I get to meet
exceptional people, people likeSteve and his team, and maybe
make a positive impact onsomeone's life.
(32:51):
And, you know, if we're lucky,we have a really successful
story to share with everybody.
Greg Hamlin (32:55):
I love that, Julie.
Well, I share both of yoursentiments in that I really do
feel like I have a lot ofgratitude for the people I get
to work with.
I really do feel like I have alot of gratitude for the people
I get to work with.
I work with some amazing peoplewho are doing really great
things, and I'm appreciative ofBerkeley of allowing me the
freedom to do that.
So we're in a great space and Iwould just encourage everyone.
(33:16):
One don't forget to be grateful.
Something as simple as livingin an age with hot showers is
pretty amazing, and if you canfill your life thinking about
those things, everything elsegoes a little bit easier.
And I also just remind ourlisteners it would mean a lot to
me and to each of us.
If you would like and sharethis episode, as well as
(33:36):
subscribe to future episodes, wewould love it if you would
leave a five-star review.
It helps other people find thispodcast, and so go over to your
preferred platform, whetherthat's Apple Podcasts or Spotify
.
Leave us a five-star rating anda positive review.
And again, we reminded ourlisteners to do right, think
(33:57):
differently and don't forget tocare.
And that's it for this episode,and we'll catch you in two
weeks.
Thanks, everybody.
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