January 10, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode we talk about the many ways we could have came home from the Pirate Ship! Effective vs efficient! And what does it mean to us! When do we prioritize efficiency over effectiveness? Mass marketing, being better texters and yes we can take the entire family! Find this and many other episodes by category on our website! https://adultingdecrypted.com/episode-search/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dad (00:00):
Effectiveness versus efficiency.
(00:03):
Have you guys ever thought muchabout those two differences?
We get into 2024 and we'regetting ready to set our goals
and plan what we want to do forthis coming up year.
(00:40):
Interesting situation happenedtonight as we were coming home,
pirate ship.
We went and saw it.
We were on a pirate shiptonight.
Arrgh.
We were still in Cabo.
So the question that I had askedmyself on our walk home, there
was two ways to get home.
There's three ways to get home.
(01:00):
Probably.
We could have taken a car,, wecould have rented a taxi.
How else could we have got home?
Ashton (01:07):
Could've rented a private jet.
Swam.
Dad (01:11):
Okay.
There's, so, there's more thanthree ways we could've got home.
Okay, there's, there's tht two,there's three obvious ways we
could've came home when wecould've taken a car, when we
could've walked on the mainroads.
Or third, we could have walkedon the beach.
Which way did we choose to walk?
(01:31):
I believe we chose to walk onthe beach.
Okay, so that brings up thetopic for today that I'd like to
discuss.
Effectiveness versus efficiency.
Have you guys ever thought muchabout those two differences?
We get into 2024 and we'regetting ready to set our goals
and plan what we want to do forthis coming up year Gene, you're
(01:52):
starting college.
Exciting time.
Ashton, as you're running yourdrumline programs.
And Gideon, as you're gettingready to finish your senior
year, thinking abouteffectiveness versus
efficiencies.
Gene (02:07):
I've thought about this a little bit, so I'm interested to
hear your take on it.
But for me, the main time Istarted thinking about it was on
my missionary service.
I'd like to look at a task andbe like, okay, is this task
effective?
And then the next question I'dask is, okay, is it efficient?
(02:31):
The mission can help me.
Define the
Dad (02:33):
two a little differently Yeah, going to go into some
depth for those who don't knowthe difference between efficient
and effective okay, so
Gene (02:41):
for me when I think of Effectiveness, it doesn't get
the job that you want to done.
So how effective if you'retrying
Dad (02:53):
to talk to people is
Gene (02:55):
Doing a certain task effective at doing that is
walking around on the streets aneffective way to talk to
somebody It can be to likeanother one's like, it's sitting
at your home effective at doingit.
Not really, because you're notreally seeing anybody new.
You can do calls, call peopleup.
(03:18):
I mean, we do that all the time.
It's effective at what it does.
But then efficient is howquickly
Dad (03:25):
does it do the thing?
Yep.
How
Gene (03:28):
quickly do you get through those different phone calls?
Is it an effective time?
Versus just well, that time iseffective, but is it efficient
Dad (03:39):
at being effective?
Good.
Thank you.
I think that's some goodexamples.
Because as I think on todayexactly this morning, somebody
wasn't feeling well in ourfamily, so we decided to drive
to where we were going.
And then tonight, we were aboutthe same location, we decided to
walk home.
Both of them were effective.
(04:01):
Right walking got us there andgot us home driving got us there
and got a got us home where theyboth effective Which one was
most efficient depends whataspect you're focusing on you're
going right where I'm thinking
Gene (04:17):
if you're working on like The cost of it walking home is
easily the more Efficient ifyou're talking about speed the
car is easily more efficient
Dad (04:30):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Nature of the task, any resourceconstraints, time sensitivity,
balancing act, and themeasurement for success.
I know that feels like a lotwhen you're looking at a
decision whether am I gonna makean effective decision or if I'm
gonna make an efficientdecision?
(04:50):
Sometimes they don't have to bemutually exclusive, ironically
enough, right?
In my, in my business world.
My goal has always been to focuson efficiencies, it's like, how
do I do that same thing faster?
How do I get there faster?
How do I get it done faster?
(05:12):
But what I forget is sometimes Ihave to be the effective.
Is it effective?
Especially as it pertains topeople, right?
If I wrote you an email or atext asking, is that.
Efficient.
Yeah.
Is it always effective?
No.
(05:32):
Because I suck at
Ashton (05:33):
texting.
Please call me.
Well,
Dad (05:36):
that, that's, that's the point I'm driving at on that,
right?
So the nature of the task.
So when do you prioritizeeffectiveness?
What, what task would you think,hey, I really want to be
effective at this?
I'm
Ashton (05:51):
thinking on some of the stuff that I've talked about
earlier with managing a newdrumline program.
One of the aspects that isimportant is recruiting.
And you can be very efficient oryou can be very effective.
Simply put, I can probably bebetter at both next year.
Because you can efficiently talkto as many people as you want to
(06:14):
recruit.
But it's harder to effectivelyrecruit people, I think, and so
the fastest solution or the moreefficient solution is not always
the most effective
Dad (06:27):
solution.
Great, that's a great task.
Ashley, especially when you talkabout it being your first year,
you kind of have to look at itand go, okay was it effective?
Did I get the desired result?
And then now that I've got thatdesired result, can I become
more efficient at it?
Gideon, I think you're spendingquite a bit of time at EmTech
working on this concept, aren'tyou?
(06:48):
A little bit as far as marketingcampaigns.
Is it getting the results that Iwant it to?
I think so.
So I would think effectivenessis if the task is long term,
involves significant decisionmaking there's some processes
involved in it, but thenefficiency should be done for
(07:12):
routine tasks or processesEfficiency actually becomes
critical on some of the stuff wedo in a daily basis Based on
time.
one minute shower is probablypretty effective and pretty
efficient, yeah But do youalways want to make that task
just a task?
(07:34):
No, because I know it's
Gene (07:35):
about the experience.
At least, I know sometimes forme, it's relaxing to be in the
shower, and I'll just like sitthere and be like, and then I
can let my mind wander and thinkabout a bunch of different
things.
That's right.
And so then it's effective, but
Dad (07:47):
for a different purpose.
That's right.
Because it helps you sometimeswith the mind unwinding, right?
That's when you pull out theearbud and instead of listening
to music in the shower or listento something else You might let
your mind drift and you come upwith new ideas new concept new
ideas.
Okay, good any other thoughts onthe tasks?
Nature of the task.
Was that pretty clear liketonight the nature of the task
(08:09):
was what get home?
Was it or was it fence spendfamily time?
It's both
Ashton (08:16):
Because we did want to end up here at the end of the
night.
Agreed.
Dad (08:21):
But we didn't have to prioritize efficiency.
No.
But the process was stilleffective.
Yeah.
We still got home to your point.
We're not wandering on thebeach.
Well,
Ashton (08:33):
and I think another way to think of like the task is
like How dirty is your laundrybecause you can put it into the
wash and speed wash it reallyquick But if you've been hiking
in jeans knee deep in mud It'sprobably better to do a deep
wash while first rinsing it offwith a hose in the backyard you
(08:56):
know, so when it comes to tasksYeah, but yeah, you have to
consider what all has to bedone.
Dad (09:04):
It Wouldn't be effective just to throw it right in the
wash, which, which is somethingI'd be prone to do.
I'd be like, Oh, it's efficient.
Throw it in, but because I neverrinsed him, it wasn't even
effective.
Does that make sense?
I like that analogy.
Yeah.
Cause
Gene (09:22):
it can be efficient at getting your clothes out
quickly, but it's not, it's notefficient at getting it
Dad (09:30):
clean.
That's right.
Yep.
Now, if you're trying tocomplete a task to make your mom
happy, you're like, yeah, Iwashed my clothes.
But it wasn't a vision at all.
I did the task, but I wasn'tgood at it.
What resource constraints needto be considered?
And, and why would that be?
So, on the mission,
Gene (09:51):
one of the resource constraint we had was miles that
we could drive
Dad (09:55):
on a car.
Hmm, interesting.
And so we can Ashton's overthere shaking his head.
He remembers those days.
I do remember those.
And so
Ashton (10:02):
it's like, you
Gene (10:03):
get let's just say a good solid number of a thousand miles
to drive the car in this month.
And it could be more effectiveor more efficient to drive these
different places.
Cause the point is to get frompoint a to point B, but you can
budget your resources better.
(10:26):
So it's like, okay, it would bemore to, for speed, this would
be more effective or efficient,but because we need these for
something else.
Biking is going to be moreefficient for us later on so
that we can do this task and notbe constrained on
Dad (10:48):
our other tasks.
Yep.
I like it.
That limited resource.
I mean, that limited resource issomething we probably all have
to think about.
I think of one of these is timebecause we don't treat it as a
limited resource.
Sometimes it really is based onthe day that you've got a big
(11:11):
task to deliver.
You've promised something andyou're like, it doesn't.
I've got a very limitedresource.
I'm going to be very efficientwrite this paper because I'm
down to minutes now to get itdone.
But sometimes you get to be onthat paper because it might not
have been as effective as itneeded to be.
I got to be,
Ashton (11:28):
that's awesome.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm
Dad (11:30):
down for that.
You had classes, right?
C's get degrees.
But it doesn't lead to deeperlearning all the time.
So, so I think college is a realinteresting study of efficiency
versus effectiveness, but enoughabout that.
So if you have an abundance ofresource, effectiveness might
(11:50):
take precedence.
That's, that's relationships,right?
So tonight we had plenty oftime.
So effectiveness, being able tospend time together, look at
Orion's belt with mom, you know,take some pictures, laugh about
you guys.
Getting splashed or you guyslaughed at us.
I can't know when both wayseverybody got wet except Sabrina
(12:11):
Serena saw it coming I jumpedout of the way Okay, so resource
constraints time sensitivitytimes an interesting one because
Sometimes we we get very wrappedup in how fast we can get
something done But we don't takethe time to step back and go.
(12:31):
Okay.
Is this effective?
It might be an effective in themoment Am I even being, you
know, because before you candecide that you have to step
back and say is, is what I'mtrying to do going to be
effective.
Trying to think of an example ofthat right off the top of my
head.
Anybody got anything they couldhelp the listener with?
(12:52):
Something I thought of
Gene (12:53):
was, if you're trying to invite a bunch of new people to
a gathering.
Say like, hey, we want to get asmany people as we can to this
spot.
It can be really Effective atgiving every single person the
exact same thing You just haveto type the number one and it
(13:13):
entered it autofills everythingthat you need to send to them.
It's a giant Robotic responsesto everything that they have.
It's very efficient you onlyhave to type one letter on the
keyboard and it'll be all done,but It may not be a very
effective because some peoplecould look at that and be like,
well, it seems very robotic notvery personable It's
Dad (13:37):
It's not effective for me.
Yeah, I like that, Gene, becausereally what you did is you mass
invite, and everybody sees thatinvite, but they don't feel
special.
So they don't necessarily comeand, and join your party.
And that's where I think some ofthat social media targeting,
getting that you're working on,and trying to figure out, How do
I target a specific group to notonly be efficient, because I
(14:00):
don't want to run a ton of ads,but how can I be effective as
well?
Is that a fair observation withwhat you're studying?
Yeah,
Gideon (14:08):
that's fair.
I loved your example, Jean, butI think sometimes it's also
important to think about yourgoal with the action that you
want.
So it's it's effective if itdoes what you want it to do.
I know that sounds super simpleand it is, it really is.
But like, you don't need tospend a whole bunch of time on
(14:29):
something.
If it's not necessarily directlyconnected with what you want to
achieve.
If what you want to achieve isgetting people to come to your
seminar, which is what the emailinvite that June was talking
about.
If that's what you want andsending an auto respond email to
everybody gets you your 30percent that you wanted out of
(14:51):
that to come to, your seminar,then it's enough, then it's
effective.
So I think it.
It could be important tohighlight the differences in
that
Dad (15:01):
as well.
Yeah.
And that leads into we want totalk about is that balancing
act.
Because both are a lot of timesnecessary, right?
I don't believe, right?
I'm kind of biased here.
I don't believe that you canhave an effective process.
Excuse me.
(15:21):
I don't believe that you canhave an efficient process that
isn't effective.
Because in a business, if Ibuilt an efficient process, but
it didn't lead me to what Iwanted it to, then is it really
an efficient process or am Ijust wasting more time?
Is that where you're leadingwith that?
Ashton (15:41):
I have a story for this.
Please.
It's very short.
I was the most efficient mopper.
At Watergarden Cinemas inPleasant Grove when I worked
there.
Only after I had quit and to goto school and I come back and
visited and was saying hi to allmy manager friends.
(16:03):
Did one of the managers be like,bro, no one's allowed to mop
like you.
And I was like, why is that?
He's like, cause you always gotdone so fast, but there was a
reason why.
Because I had figured out how todunk the mop and mop basically.
Half the theater three or fourrows of the theater without
having to re dump the mopbecause if you don't wring it
(16:26):
out you just go across that toprow the water starts all going
downhill and so you can getthrough four or five rows really
really pretty quick and I had apretty good mopping motion so I
was very very efficient at itbut he didn't let anyone else
mop like that because
Dad (16:43):
They'd, they'd
Ashton (16:43):
prefer people just to take forever, I guess.
Dad (16:45):
I don't know.
But, but, really was iteffective?
Did it get the skew off theground?
Ashton (16:51):
I think so.
There was a couple, there was acouple opportunities where
people disagreed.
Dad (16:56):
In his view, you might have had an efficient, and you were
saving him, me, you were savinghim money.
Right.
But you weren't necessarilyeffective.
Right.
Good example.
I do think it is a balancingact, right?
You need to know how can I beefficient and how can I be
successful.
And then Gideon, I think youcould spend a few more minutes
on measuring success.
(17:18):
Give us some thoughts onmeasuring success.
Gideon (17:21):
I think it's just more of, of what I talked about.
The way you measure success isif it did what you want it to
do.
Shout out to Alex, my marketingteacher, cause that's really the
whole basis of marketing.
If what you are trying to do, asin get people to your website,
(17:42):
if the action that you take getspeople to your website, it does
not necessarily matter whataction that you take.
'cause it got your goal done.
So,
Dad (17:53):
Well, did you, I, I would consider that to be an outcome
focused metrics.
You're, you're looking, you'relooking at an outcome, like,
what was my outcome?
Yeah, because
Gideon (18:07):
an example that he has taught us is at a company
They're redesigning their logoand the CEO really loves this
one design Maybe he createdmaybe like his daughter or
something drew it up But heloves this design and then
another person makes anotherdesign and they do a B testing
(18:29):
Which is where they send some toone person Like one group of
people, the other two, anothergroup of people and see which
they like better.
And even though the CEO reallyloves this one design, the
people like the other one andthe other one is more effective.
(18:53):
So it's not necessarily focusedon what you want, but like you
said, the
Dad (18:57):
outcome, right?
So on an outcome focused metricseffectiveness.
It is the most important part.
In my opinion.
It goes back to what Gene'ssaying.
He goes, hey I want to getpeople in seats.
I want people to my invite.
Effectiveness.
(19:17):
I A B tested it.
Is that efficient?
Not necessarily.
But is it effective?
Yeah, because it allows you tohit your audience.
Gideon (19:25):
Is this pretty much a conversation about quantity over
quality?
Dad (19:29):
No.
I don't think so because I'm notsaying you have to throw a bunch
of stuff at them.
But you're taking the time andyou're looking at strategy and
you're contemplating.
How can I make this work thebest, so you're willing to take
the time energy and effort
Ashton (19:44):
well, I was gonna say another another thing I think
about versus that makes it notquality over quantity is part of
the challenge when you teach inEnsemble these percussion
ensembles that I teach that arecompetitive is the season lasts
You three four months at mostand a lot of the ensembles that
(20:09):
I work with you are teachingkids that are brand new to music
or very inexperienced and so youhave to get them the instruction
that they need in order to playat the level they need to play
at to be competitive And if youthrow too much at them, nothing
sticks if you give them all thisamazing quality Like deeply
(20:33):
thought out slow taughtinstruction to be very effective
You're not gonna get far enoughto get where you need to be.
So you kind of have to find thebalance Between what's the most
effective of instruction I cangive in the most efficient way
So that I can merge these twoideas in college we spend
(20:55):
forever talking about like thedeepest technical, you know, how
you play this thing, what'shappening to your pointer finger
as you're playing this whateverthe heck.
And when you go to teach highschool kids, it's what is your
hand doing to hold the stick.
Great.
Think of it in two parts, ratherthan, you know, all five fingers
(21:17):
sort of stuff.
And there's just differentstrategies that I've started to
figure out work quickly.
But also teach like the truecore principles effectively
Dad (21:28):
you're hitting on measuring success.
You went back to balancing,right?
The balancing of the two and howyou do it.
But on an outcome focusedmetrics, you're still looking at
effectiveness.
okay, is what I'm teaching themgoing to work?
Is this working?
Am I working?
Is it making sense?
But then when you have to go toprocess focused measurements.
(21:53):
This, this is totally dependenton if success is measured by how
well a task are executed andresources are utilized.
Efficiency becomes a focalpoint.
So warm ups, you probably drivefor efficiency.
You're like, okay, look, I knowthey're effective because they
work.
Now, how fast can I get it done?
(22:13):
Can I get through my warmups infive minutes, 10 minutes, six
minutes, 3.8 minutes?
Drill that to where you go.
Okay.
Now I've, I've effectively usedmy time.
We're not wasting time inbetween examples.
We're not wasting time in mycadence, we're getting in, we're
getting started.
Now I can go to the outcomefocus metrics, which is where I
can teach them and take the timeto go through the effectiveness.
(22:37):
So getting your point on.
The ABC testing and some ofthose processes, you're going,
Hey, it's going to be effectivewhen we launch it, but then when
we're ready to go through andjust deliver that, we're going
to fly through this and we needto make sure that we utilize all
of our resources.
(22:58):
We need to hit all of our links.
We copy and paste what we can.
We modify very little.
Right?
We blitz this out.
Is that, is that clear to you?
Does that make a little bit moresense as we've talked through
it?
Yeah, I think so.
And then the human side isalways an interesting part
because I truly believe that thehuman experience Yeah, there's
(23:22):
time that efficiency matters,but I truly believe that
effectiveness is the mostimportant part Is you're working
with on your relationships into2024.
It's not all, and I'm guilty,right?
How many texts have I sent youguys that was just garbage?
I mean, maybe one?
(23:42):
Maybe,
Ashton (23:42):
maybe two at most.
Dad (23:44):
I don't want to be hyper.
I haven't texted you guys at allsince we're out of cell service
most of the time right now.
Yeah, I was going
Gene (23:49):
to ask, what's the time period?
Is this like one day, a
Dad (23:53):
week?
Well, the best one was, I think,getting ready for this trip, I
texted something about, yes, Iremember this text message, no
family gifts, you were
Ashton (24:03):
telling us not to do family gifts.
Dad (24:05):
Yeah.
But the way I wrote it is prettycomical, atrocious this is what
I wrote.
Hey, I was thinking no family.
Yes.
Cause we're in Mexico.
Is that what ever, ever, whateveryone's thinking?
Then we can just do nice stufffor each other there.
The last sentence was great.
And, and Sabrina said what doyou mean by no family?
(24:26):
I still want to keep my familyand hang out with you guys.
And then mom in one sentencesolved the whole problem.
He meant no family gifts forChristmas.
Effective and efficient is whatmom delivered on that.
So sometimes you have to stop,take a breath, think about
(24:47):
effective and efficient to besuccessful.
Gene (24:52):
Those points, it's about not just is it effective or
efficient in one of the areas,you want to see how efficient it
is in pretty much all of thoseareas is when it gets to the,
some of those more real lifethings.
Say it's just a sheet of mathhomework.
(25:15):
You could do it as.
efficient as possible, just havelike a huge screen with a bunch
of different answers on it, andthen just write it out and boom,
it's done.
But it wasn't really efficientat helping you learn it.
It wasn't really efficient atsaving the resources to help you
(25:36):
actually learn the concept.
And so it really was okay, I wasefficient in this small
minuscule area, but it wasn'treally efficient overall.
Which goes back to how youmeasure the success, which goes
back to the balance, which meanstime and resources.
Dad (25:56):
Thank you, Gene.
Effectiveness versus efficiency.
(00:03):
Have you guys ever thought muchabout those two differences?
We get into 2024 and we'regetting ready to set our goals
and plan what we want to do forthis coming up year.
(00:40):
Interesting situation happenedtonight as we were coming home,
pirate ship.
We went and saw it.
We were on a pirate shiptonight.
Arrgh.
We were still in Cabo.
So the question that I had askedmyself on our walk home, there
was two ways to get home.
There's three ways to get home.
(01:00):
Probably.
We could have taken a car,, wecould have rented a taxi.
How else could we have got home?
Ashton (01:07):
Could've rented a private jet.
Swam.
Dad (01:11):
Okay.
There's, so, there's more thanthree ways we could've got home.
Okay, there's, there's tht two,there's three obvious ways we
could've came home when wecould've taken a car, when we
could've walked on the mainroads.
Or third, we could have walkedon the beach.
Which way did we choose to walk?
(01:31):
I believe we chose to walk onthe beach.
Okay, so that brings up thetopic for today that I'd like to
discuss.
Effectiveness versus efficiency.
Have you guys ever thought muchabout those two differences?
We get into 2024 and we'regetting ready to set our goals
and plan what we want to do forthis coming up year Gene, you're
(01:52):
starting college.
Exciting time.
Ashton, as you're running yourdrumline programs.
And Gideon, as you're gettingready to finish your senior
year, thinking abouteffectiveness versus
efficiencies.
Gene (02:07):
I've thought about this a little bit, so I'm interested to
hear your take on it.
But for me, the main time Istarted thinking about it was on
my missionary service.
I'd like to look at a task andbe like, okay, is this task
effective?
And then the next question I'dask is, okay, is it efficient?
(02:31):
The mission can help me.
Define the
Dad (02:33):
two a little differently Yeah, going to go into some
depth for those who don't knowthe difference between efficient
and effective okay, so
Gene (02:41):
for me when I think of Effectiveness, it doesn't get
the job that you want to done.
So how effective if you'retrying
Dad (02:53):
to talk to people is
Gene (02:55):
Doing a certain task effective at doing that is
walking around on the streets aneffective way to talk to
somebody It can be to likeanother one's like, it's sitting
at your home effective at doingit.
Not really, because you're notreally seeing anybody new.
You can do calls, call peopleup.
(03:18):
I mean, we do that all the time.
It's effective at what it does.
But then efficient is howquickly
Dad (03:25):
does it do the thing?
Yep.
How
Gene (03:28):
quickly do you get through those different phone calls?
Is it an effective time?
Versus just well, that time iseffective, but is it efficient
Dad (03:39):
at being effective?
Good.
Thank you.
I think that's some goodexamples.
Because as I think on todayexactly this morning, somebody
wasn't feeling well in ourfamily, so we decided to drive
to where we were going.
And then tonight, we were aboutthe same location, we decided to
walk home.
Both of them were effective.
(04:01):
Right walking got us there andgot us home driving got us there
and got a got us home where theyboth effective Which one was
most efficient depends whataspect you're focusing on you're
going right where I'm thinking
Gene (04:17):
if you're working on like The cost of it walking home is
easily the more Efficient ifyou're talking about speed the
car is easily more efficient
Dad (04:30):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Nature of the task, any resourceconstraints, time sensitivity,
balancing act, and themeasurement for success.
I know that feels like a lotwhen you're looking at a
decision whether am I gonna makean effective decision or if I'm
gonna make an efficientdecision?
(04:50):
Sometimes they don't have to bemutually exclusive, ironically
enough, right?
In my, in my business world.
My goal has always been to focuson efficiencies, it's like, how
do I do that same thing faster?
How do I get there faster?
How do I get it done faster?
(05:12):
But what I forget is sometimes Ihave to be the effective.
Is it effective?
Especially as it pertains topeople, right?
If I wrote you an email or atext asking, is that.
Efficient.
Yeah.
Is it always effective?
No.
(05:32):
Because I suck at
Ashton (05:33):
texting.
Please call me.
Well,
Dad (05:36):
that, that's, that's the point I'm driving at on that,
right?
So the nature of the task.
So when do you prioritizeeffectiveness?
What, what task would you think,hey, I really want to be
effective at this?
I'm
Ashton (05:51):
thinking on some of the stuff that I've talked about
earlier with managing a newdrumline program.
One of the aspects that isimportant is recruiting.
And you can be very efficient oryou can be very effective.
Simply put, I can probably bebetter at both next year.
Because you can efficiently talkto as many people as you want to
(06:14):
recruit.
But it's harder to effectivelyrecruit people, I think, and so
the fastest solution or the moreefficient solution is not always
the most effective
Dad (06:27):
solution.
Great, that's a great task.
Ashley, especially when you talkabout it being your first year,
you kind of have to look at itand go, okay was it effective?
Did I get the desired result?
And then now that I've got thatdesired result, can I become
more efficient at it?
Gideon, I think you're spendingquite a bit of time at EmTech
working on this concept, aren'tyou?
(06:48):
A little bit as far as marketingcampaigns.
Is it getting the results that Iwant it to?
I think so.
So I would think effectivenessis if the task is long term,
involves significant decisionmaking there's some processes
involved in it, but thenefficiency should be done for
(07:12):
routine tasks or processesEfficiency actually becomes
critical on some of the stuff wedo in a daily basis Based on
time.
one minute shower is probablypretty effective and pretty
efficient, yeah But do youalways want to make that task
just a task?
(07:34):
No, because I know it's
Gene (07:35):
about the experience.
At least, I know sometimes forme, it's relaxing to be in the
shower, and I'll just like sitthere and be like, and then I
can let my mind wander and thinkabout a bunch of different
things.
That's right.
And so then it's effective, but
Dad (07:47):
for a different purpose.
That's right.
Because it helps you sometimeswith the mind unwinding, right?
That's when you pull out theearbud and instead of listening
to music in the shower or listento something else You might let
your mind drift and you come upwith new ideas new concept new
ideas.
Okay, good any other thoughts onthe tasks?
Nature of the task.
Was that pretty clear liketonight the nature of the task
(08:09):
was what get home?
Was it or was it fence spendfamily time?
It's both
Ashton (08:16):
Because we did want to end up here at the end of the
night.
Agreed.
Dad (08:21):
But we didn't have to prioritize efficiency.
No.
But the process was stilleffective.
Yeah.
We still got home to your point.
We're not wandering on thebeach.
Well,
Ashton (08:33):
and I think another way to think of like the task is
like How dirty is your laundrybecause you can put it into the
wash and speed wash it reallyquick But if you've been hiking
in jeans knee deep in mud It'sprobably better to do a deep
wash while first rinsing it offwith a hose in the backyard you
(08:56):
know, so when it comes to tasksYeah, but yeah, you have to
consider what all has to bedone.
Dad (09:04):
It Wouldn't be effective just to throw it right in the
wash, which, which is somethingI'd be prone to do.
I'd be like, Oh, it's efficient.
Throw it in, but because I neverrinsed him, it wasn't even
effective.
Does that make sense?
I like that analogy.
Yeah.
Cause
Gene (09:22):
it can be efficient at getting your clothes out
quickly, but it's not, it's notefficient at getting it
Dad (09:30):
clean.
That's right.
Yep.
Now, if you're trying tocomplete a task to make your mom
happy, you're like, yeah, Iwashed my clothes.
But it wasn't a vision at all.
I did the task, but I wasn'tgood at it.
What resource constraints needto be considered?
And, and why would that be?
So, on the mission,
Gene (09:51):
one of the resource constraint we had was miles that
we could drive
Dad (09:55):
on a car.
Hmm, interesting.
And so we can Ashton's overthere shaking his head.
He remembers those days.
I do remember those.
And so
Ashton (10:02):
it's like, you
Gene (10:03):
get let's just say a good solid number of a thousand miles
to drive the car in this month.
And it could be more effectiveor more efficient to drive these
different places.
Cause the point is to get frompoint a to point B, but you can
budget your resources better.
(10:26):
So it's like, okay, it would bemore to, for speed, this would
be more effective or efficient,but because we need these for
something else.
Biking is going to be moreefficient for us later on so
that we can do this task and notbe constrained on
Dad (10:48):
our other tasks.
Yep.
I like it.
That limited resource.
I mean, that limited resource issomething we probably all have
to think about.
I think of one of these is timebecause we don't treat it as a
limited resource.
Sometimes it really is based onthe day that you've got a big
(11:11):
task to deliver.
You've promised something andyou're like, it doesn't.
I've got a very limitedresource.
I'm going to be very efficientwrite this paper because I'm
down to minutes now to get itdone.
But sometimes you get to be onthat paper because it might not
have been as effective as itneeded to be.
I got to be,
Ashton (11:28):
that's awesome.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm
Dad (11:30):
down for that.
You had classes, right?
C's get degrees.
But it doesn't lead to deeperlearning all the time.
So, so I think college is a realinteresting study of efficiency
versus effectiveness, but enoughabout that.
So if you have an abundance ofresource, effectiveness might
(11:50):
take precedence.
That's, that's relationships,right?
So tonight we had plenty oftime.
So effectiveness, being able tospend time together, look at
Orion's belt with mom, you know,take some pictures, laugh about
you guys.
Getting splashed or you guyslaughed at us.
I can't know when both wayseverybody got wet except Sabrina
(12:11):
Serena saw it coming I jumpedout of the way Okay, so resource
constraints time sensitivitytimes an interesting one because
Sometimes we we get very wrappedup in how fast we can get
something done But we don't takethe time to step back and go.
(12:31):
Okay.
Is this effective?
It might be an effective in themoment Am I even being, you
know, because before you candecide that you have to step
back and say is, is what I'mtrying to do going to be
effective.
Trying to think of an example ofthat right off the top of my
head.
Anybody got anything they couldhelp the listener with?
(12:52):
Something I thought of
Gene (12:53):
was, if you're trying to invite a bunch of new people to
a gathering.
Say like, hey, we want to get asmany people as we can to this
spot.
It can be really Effective atgiving every single person the
exact same thing You just haveto type the number one and it
(13:13):
entered it autofills everythingthat you need to send to them.
It's a giant Robotic responsesto everything that they have.
It's very efficient you onlyhave to type one letter on the
keyboard and it'll be all done,but It may not be a very
effective because some peoplecould look at that and be like,
well, it seems very robotic notvery personable It's
Dad (13:37):
It's not effective for me.
Yeah, I like that, Gene, becausereally what you did is you mass
invite, and everybody sees thatinvite, but they don't feel
special.
So they don't necessarily comeand, and join your party.
And that's where I think some ofthat social media targeting,
getting that you're working on,and trying to figure out, How do
I target a specific group to notonly be efficient, because I
(14:00):
don't want to run a ton of ads,but how can I be effective as
well?
Is that a fair observation withwhat you're studying?
Yeah,
Gideon (14:08):
that's fair.
I loved your example, Jean, butI think sometimes it's also
important to think about yourgoal with the action that you
want.
So it's it's effective if itdoes what you want it to do.
I know that sounds super simpleand it is, it really is.
But like, you don't need tospend a whole bunch of time on
(14:29):
something.
If it's not necessarily directlyconnected with what you want to
achieve.
If what you want to achieve isgetting people to come to your
seminar, which is what the emailinvite that June was talking
about.
If that's what you want andsending an auto respond email to
everybody gets you your 30percent that you wanted out of
(14:51):
that to come to, your seminar,then it's enough, then it's
effective.
So I think it.
It could be important tohighlight the differences in
that
Dad (15:01):
as well.
Yeah.
And that leads into we want totalk about is that balancing
act.
Because both are a lot of timesnecessary, right?
I don't believe, right?
I'm kind of biased here.
I don't believe that you canhave an effective process.
Excuse me.
(15:21):
I don't believe that you canhave an efficient process that
isn't effective.
Because in a business, if Ibuilt an efficient process, but
it didn't lead me to what Iwanted it to, then is it really
an efficient process or am Ijust wasting more time?
Is that where you're leadingwith that?
Ashton (15:41):
I have a story for this.
Please.
It's very short.
I was the most efficient mopper.
At Watergarden Cinemas inPleasant Grove when I worked
there.
Only after I had quit and to goto school and I come back and
visited and was saying hi to allmy manager friends.
(16:03):
Did one of the managers be like,bro, no one's allowed to mop
like you.
And I was like, why is that?
He's like, cause you always gotdone so fast, but there was a
reason why.
Because I had figured out how todunk the mop and mop basically.
Half the theater three or fourrows of the theater without
having to re dump the mopbecause if you don't wring it
(16:26):
out you just go across that toprow the water starts all going
downhill and so you can getthrough four or five rows really
really pretty quick and I had apretty good mopping motion so I
was very very efficient at itbut he didn't let anyone else
mop like that because
Dad (16:43):
They'd, they'd
Ashton (16:43):
prefer people just to take forever, I guess.
Dad (16:45):
I don't know.
But, but, really was iteffective?
Did it get the skew off theground?
Ashton (16:51):
I think so.
There was a couple, there was acouple opportunities where
people disagreed.
Dad (16:56):
In his view, you might have had an efficient, and you were
saving him, me, you were savinghim money.
Right.
But you weren't necessarilyeffective.
Right.
Good example.
I do think it is a balancingact, right?
You need to know how can I beefficient and how can I be
successful.
And then Gideon, I think youcould spend a few more minutes
on measuring success.
(17:18):
Give us some thoughts onmeasuring success.
Gideon (17:21):
I think it's just more of, of what I talked about.
The way you measure success isif it did what you want it to
do.
Shout out to Alex, my marketingteacher, cause that's really the
whole basis of marketing.
If what you are trying to do, asin get people to your website,
(17:42):
if the action that you take getspeople to your website, it does
not necessarily matter whataction that you take.
'cause it got your goal done.
So,
Dad (17:53):
Well, did you, I, I would consider that to be an outcome
focused metrics.
You're, you're looking, you'relooking at an outcome, like,
what was my outcome?
Yeah, because
Gideon (18:07):
an example that he has taught us is at a company
They're redesigning their logoand the CEO really loves this
one design Maybe he createdmaybe like his daughter or
something drew it up But heloves this design and then
another person makes anotherdesign and they do a B testing
(18:29):
Which is where they send some toone person Like one group of
people, the other two, anothergroup of people and see which
they like better.
And even though the CEO reallyloves this one design, the
people like the other one andthe other one is more effective.
(18:53):
So it's not necessarily focusedon what you want, but like you
said, the
Dad (18:57):
outcome, right?
So on an outcome focused metricseffectiveness.
It is the most important part.
In my opinion.
It goes back to what Gene'ssaying.
He goes, hey I want to getpeople in seats.
I want people to my invite.
Effectiveness.
(19:17):
I A B tested it.
Is that efficient?
Not necessarily.
But is it effective?
Yeah, because it allows you tohit your audience.
Gideon (19:25):
Is this pretty much a conversation about quantity over
quality?
Dad (19:29):
No.
I don't think so because I'm notsaying you have to throw a bunch
of stuff at them.
But you're taking the time andyou're looking at strategy and
you're contemplating.
How can I make this work thebest, so you're willing to take
the time energy and effort
Ashton (19:44):
well, I was gonna say another another thing I think
about versus that makes it notquality over quantity is part of
the challenge when you teach inEnsemble these percussion
ensembles that I teach that arecompetitive is the season lasts
You three four months at mostand a lot of the ensembles that
(20:09):
I work with you are teachingkids that are brand new to music
or very inexperienced and so youhave to get them the instruction
that they need in order to playat the level they need to play
at to be competitive And if youthrow too much at them, nothing
sticks if you give them all thisamazing quality Like deeply
(20:33):
thought out slow taughtinstruction to be very effective
You're not gonna get far enoughto get where you need to be.
So you kind of have to find thebalance Between what's the most
effective of instruction I cangive in the most efficient way
So that I can merge these twoideas in college we spend
(20:55):
forever talking about like thedeepest technical, you know, how
you play this thing, what'shappening to your pointer finger
as you're playing this whateverthe heck.
And when you go to teach highschool kids, it's what is your
hand doing to hold the stick.
Great.
Think of it in two parts, ratherthan, you know, all five fingers
(21:17):
sort of stuff.
And there's just differentstrategies that I've started to
figure out work quickly.
But also teach like the truecore principles effectively
Dad (21:28):
you're hitting on measuring success.
You went back to balancing,right?
The balancing of the two and howyou do it.
But on an outcome focusedmetrics, you're still looking at
effectiveness.
okay, is what I'm teaching themgoing to work?
Is this working?
Am I working?
Is it making sense?
But then when you have to go toprocess focused measurements.
(21:53):
This, this is totally dependenton if success is measured by how
well a task are executed andresources are utilized.
Efficiency becomes a focalpoint.
So warm ups, you probably drivefor efficiency.
You're like, okay, look, I knowthey're effective because they
work.
Now, how fast can I get it done?
(22:13):
Can I get through my warmups infive minutes, 10 minutes, six
minutes, 3.8 minutes?
Drill that to where you go.
Okay.
Now I've, I've effectively usedmy time.
We're not wasting time inbetween examples.
We're not wasting time in mycadence, we're getting in, we're
getting started.
Now I can go to the outcomefocus metrics, which is where I
can teach them and take the timeto go through the effectiveness.
(22:37):
So getting your point on.
The ABC testing and some ofthose processes, you're going,
Hey, it's going to be effectivewhen we launch it, but then when
we're ready to go through andjust deliver that, we're going
to fly through this and we needto make sure that we utilize all
of our resources.
(22:58):
We need to hit all of our links.
We copy and paste what we can.
We modify very little.
Right?
We blitz this out.
Is that, is that clear to you?
Does that make a little bit moresense as we've talked through
it?
Yeah, I think so.
And then the human side isalways an interesting part
because I truly believe that thehuman experience Yeah, there's
(23:22):
time that efficiency matters,but I truly believe that
effectiveness is the mostimportant part Is you're working
with on your relationships into2024.
It's not all, and I'm guilty,right?
How many texts have I sent youguys that was just garbage?
I mean, maybe one?
(23:42):
Maybe,
Ashton (23:42):
maybe two at most.
Dad (23:44):
I don't want to be hyper.
I haven't texted you guys at allsince we're out of cell service
most of the time right now.
Yeah, I was going
Gene (23:49):
to ask, what's the time period?
Is this like one day, a
Dad (23:53):
week?
Well, the best one was, I think,getting ready for this trip, I
texted something about, yes, Iremember this text message, no
family gifts, you were
Ashton (24:03):
telling us not to do family gifts.
Dad (24:05):
Yeah.
But the way I wrote it is prettycomical, atrocious this is what
I wrote.
Hey, I was thinking no family.
Yes.
Cause we're in Mexico.
Is that what ever, ever, whateveryone's thinking?
Then we can just do nice stufffor each other there.
The last sentence was great.
And, and Sabrina said what doyou mean by no family?
(24:26):
I still want to keep my familyand hang out with you guys.
And then mom in one sentencesolved the whole problem.
He meant no family gifts forChristmas.
Effective and efficient is whatmom delivered on that.
So sometimes you have to stop,take a breath, think about
(24:47):
effective and efficient to besuccessful.
Gene (24:52):
Those points, it's about not just is it effective or
efficient in one of the areas,you want to see how efficient it
is in pretty much all of thoseareas is when it gets to the,
some of those more real lifethings.
Say it's just a sheet of mathhomework.
(25:15):
You could do it as.
efficient as possible, just havelike a huge screen with a bunch
of different answers on it, andthen just write it out and boom,
it's done.
But it wasn't really efficientat helping you learn it.
It wasn't really efficient atsaving the resources to help you
(25:36):
actually learn the concept.
And so it really was okay, I wasefficient in this small
minuscule area, but it wasn'treally efficient overall.
Which goes back to how youmeasure the success, which goes
back to the balance, which meanstime and resources.
Dad (25:56):
Thank you, Gene.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.