July 23, 2025 • 29 mins
On this episode of advocacy talks we catch up with Bobbie Hickey, who recently wrote a really interesting article for the Irish Times. With this month being disability pride month, what does it mean to be proud of something that so many people fear?
Bobbie also discusses her journey seeking support, and why it’s important to ensure you feel in control when doing so.
Want to get in touch with the advocacy team? Send an email now to campaigns@VI.ie
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Advocacy Talks, a podcast from the
advocacy team at Vision Ireland.
Here's what's coming up on thisepisode.
SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
I'm not embarrassed about it anymore.
I'm not ashamed about it.
You know, there's, I think, farmore interesting things about me
other than my disability, butit's not a topic that I'm shying
away from.
It's not something that I kindof avoid talking about, whereas
previously in my own experiencesand my own journey that I've
gone on, I would have beenreally offended.
And if someone called medisabled or blind, I would have
(00:33):
taken that as an insult.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
And now here's Madeleine McNamara.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Hello everybody, Madeleine here and you're very
welcome to Advocacy Talks withVision Island today and thank
you so much for joining meagain.
On our last podcast, I had afascinating conversation with
Titi Matsunen, who is actuallythe president of the European
Blind Union.
And we had a great conversationabout her role, but also about
(01:00):
what it's like living in Finlandas a person who is blind or
vision impaired.
So I have to apologize that thesound quality on that on her
side is not very good, but it'snot her fault.
It was totally down to technicalissues at our end.
So apologies for that.
But if you can bear to give it ago and listen, it was really
worth listening to because shewas a very fascinating lady.
(01:21):
Well today I'm joined by anotherfascinating lady.
I'm joined by Bobbi Hickey whoworks in the equality, diversity
and inclusion space.
She's also a service user ofVision Ireland and is completely
blind.
So welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me Madeleine, I
appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
Oh, you're very welcome.
You're an amazing lady.
I see you all over the place inLinkedIn, putting up amazing
things there.
But recently you had an articlein the Irish Times.
SPEAKER_03 (01:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I fell victim to the LinkedInbug.
I previously wasn't a big fan,but I've gotten a little bit
better at it now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Well, I think you're very good.
You're definitely getting theword out.
And, you know, you're an amazingadvocate, I think, in the space.
But just saying, how did thearticle in the Irish Times come
about?
SPEAKER_03 (02:17):
Yeah, thank you.
So I previously in about 2018, Iwould have been a part of a
column series in the Irish Timescalled the Platform Series and a
basically kind of.
put a spotlight on what it'slike living with a disability in
Ireland, growing up in Irelandwith a disability and everyone's
different journeys and differentexperiences.
And I would have gotten thatopportunity actually through
Vision Ireland or NCBI at thetime.
(02:39):
So to be honest with you, thatlasted about a year.
And ever since then, I kept theeditor's email.
So I can't just tend to send himmy little drafts or my diary
entries and see how far I get.
So in fairness to him is DamienCullen is his name.
And he's the editor of theHealth and Family Supplement.
And he's really good.
(03:00):
He's very supportive.
So in fairness, that's how I didit.
A little bit cheeky of me.
But if you don't ask, you'llnever get.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Absolutely.
You have to be proactive inthese things.
And I It's certainly a reallyinteresting article.
And for those people who may nothave seen it, maybe you could
just tell us a little bit aboutwhat you were saying there.
I mean, it was about being proudof disability, I think, of your
disability, but also, you know,the different ways that people
react to the fact that you'reblind.
SPEAKER_03 (03:28):
Yeah, I think I was telling someone about my article
and the content of it, and theyturned around to me and they
were like, but are you proud ofyour disability?
And for me, the main thing is,I'm not embarrassed about it
anymore.
I'm not ashamed about it.
You know, there's, I think, farmore interesting things about me
other than my disability, butit's not a topic that I'm shying
(03:49):
away from.
It's not something that I kindof avoid talking about, whereas
previously in my own experiencesand my own journey that I've
gone on, I would have beenreally offended.
And if someone called medisabled or blind, I would have
taken that as an insult.
So in my own journey, that'sjust something that I'm really
proud of.
myself and the kind of the timesthat I've been through that I'm
no longer embarrassed and Idon't run away from it anymore.
(04:11):
The article was about thatjourney and the kind of the
times that I've been through andthe experiences that have led me
to where I am today.
And also, I suppose over thelast two years, I've lost all of
my sight due to a series ofunfortunate events, we'll call
it to keep it simple.
But now it's pretty much allgone.
So I now I'm fully blind for thefirst time.
(04:33):
And I suppose it's about my kindof narrative I have in my head
of, yes, I am proud of beingblind, but also the efforts that
I go to to not come across asblind because of society's norms
and the ideas that people haveabout people with disability in
their heads and how we'repainted out to be less than
(04:54):
sometimes.
I go to massive lengths to makesure I don't look like a poor
blind person, if that makessense, because whenever I tell
people that I'm blind they'realways oh my god I didn't
realise you were blind as injeez I didn't realise someone
could be well dressed and blindI didn't realise blind people
were allowed out on their ownyou know what I mean I didn't
realise blind people likecocktails like all these things
(05:15):
that are just part of normallife but for whatever reason
they're just not seen to be partof having a disability.
So the article was abouttackling that stigma that we all
have, like we all haveunconscious biases.
You know, like just because I'ma person with a disability
doesn't mean that I don't havebiases towards other people.
It's part of being a human.
But I suppose the article wasabout tackling that and through
(05:37):
no fault of our own, it exists.
So it's just about the kind ofinner dialogue that I would
have.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, and it's a huge pressure then on you and on
people know other people whohave disabilities but you know
particularly we're talking todayabout people who are blind or
vision impaired so that's a hugepressure that you have to feel
you know that you don't want tolook blind and and i can
identify with that certainly umin my younger years um i'm also
you know vision impaired i dostill have some some useful
(06:05):
sight but would be um kind of ata level that's counted as blind
but i have sight so you know umbut certainly i know that in my
in my young days no i did notwant anyone to know I couldn't
see.
So I wouldn't use a cane, asimple cane or anything, and
just got out there and didn'twant people, didn't want anyone
(06:25):
to know.
You just want to be likeeverybody else.
But it is that kind ofcompetition is in a way in your
head, isn't it?
That on one hand, I found anywaythat I didn't want people to
know I was blind, but I stillwanted people to give me help if
I needed it.
You know, you want people torecognize
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
in some ways as well.
It's almost like you want to...
We'll talk about it when it'srelevant, but then as soon as
it's not relevant anymore, okay,that's fine.
Enough now.
You know what I mean?
We never had that conversation.
And I think it's just about...
like something that I findfascinating is when people
realize that I'm blind, it'salmost like, OK, now I just have
(07:03):
to make sure they still think ofme the same way they thought of
me before.
Just as, you know, a girl likeat the dog park, for example,
just sitting there, her dog'splaying, whatever.
Like when I bring Josie to thedog park, everyone's always
like, oh, are you walking herfor your blind friend?
No, if I was doing that, shewouldn't be in the harness.
You know what I mean?
So it's just about kind ofkeeping up that same level of of
(07:27):
respect, expectation, and Isuppose just common decency when
it comes to people thinking thesame of you when they realize
that you have a disability.
I find it so insane that peopledon't think I'm blind.
I suppose for a perspective, myeyes do look different.
(07:47):
I would think they're quiteobviously different.
I obviously can't see them, butone is quite big and one is
really small.
So I kind of look like an emoji.
So it's quite obvious.
And like, that's fine.
It doesn't bother me.
I wear sunglasses when I'moutside anyway, purely for
protection purposes.
So people often assume that I'mnot blind, but that's hilarious
(08:08):
because I'm completely blind.
And I know people that have alittle bit more sight than me
are still legally blind, butthey have a little bit more
sight than me.
And people are like, oh, yeah,they're definitely blind.
And I wonder then, is it a thingof the people that have a little
bit more sight than me, but arestill blind?
Are they trying to use theirobviously their usable sight
that they have, which is great.
(08:29):
But then I suppose.
it's a little bit morechallenging to do that so maybe
that makes them look more blindand I'm just like well there's
no point in trying so I'll justI'll just ignore the fact that I
have the eyes you know
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
yeah it's a tricky one because yeah my eyes would
look very different as well andso when I was younger I didn't
have any kind of glasses oranything like that so you I
think it was fairly obvious butto me I I didn't I suppose
wasn't so aware of that and Ijust went on as if nobody could
tell you know but then now Ihave I have glasses and the the
funny thing is that I think insome ways that doesn't that
(09:00):
makes me look not blind becausemy eyes are very small and so
without the glasses it's veryobvious but of course the
glasses are so the magnificationon them is so huge that I think
it probably makes my eyes lookmore normal do you know yeah
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
so I think glasses are so normal now anyway though
like like glasses are so commonblindness is so common obviously
legally blind that's that's astep that's a bigger well I
think it's that
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
It's that weird thing that glasses are so
common, but I think blindness isnot so common.
And what I find interesting isthat people assume that if you
wear glasses, it must fix it.
You know, so because you'rewearing glasses, you must be
able to see fully.
And I think that is what peoplefind difficult, that, no, I have
glasses, but I still only have10% sight.
You know, so it's like, oh.
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Like when I was younger and Iwould wear glasses and they were
just for protection.
And everyone, oh, like you wearglasses, so can you see the
board in school with theglasses?
And I was like, no, no.
I didn't realise that peoplewould wear glasses, you know, to
help their sight.
Now, that was when I was veryyoung, like we're talking like
seven or eight.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
But
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
I didn't realise that actually glasses had like a
function that could be toactually help your eyesight.
Whenever I was younger, everyonewas like, oh, like, you know,
what's wrong with your eyes orwhatever, and they would
automatically assume it's a lazyeye.
And obviously, yes, they'relazy, but not in the way you
think.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, exactly.
I think it's a really daftmedical term for an eye
condition, I think, lazy eye,because I don't think anybody's
I don't know.
It's very literal.
It is.
It is.
It is very much so.
But then you get the reversethen when people come in a group
(10:41):
of people and people will besaying, oh, gosh, I'm totally
blind.
You know, I can't see anything.
You know, when I get up and Ican't find my earrings and I
can't find my bloody blah.
But then they put the glasses onand they've got 20-20 vision.
And it's just like thedisconnect.
And they're sitting there andI'm in the group and they know
that I have, you know, problems.
And there's just that.
Just total lack of recognitionof the difference between them
(11:04):
struggling first thing in themorning to find their glasses
and me not being able to seewell the whole time.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
that's very interesting.
And like, obviously, when peopleare insensitive about it, that's
a different story.
But I have found the oppositethat way.
a lot of people that I wouldspeak to would be quite awkward
about using the word see in asentence like oh see you later
oh sorry I didn't mean see Imeant I'll talk to you soon and
it's like oh my god can we calmdown please I was walking the
other day like last week um andobviously obviously no sight so
(11:36):
I kind of geolocate with my earsum and there was a group of
people in front of me and Josiehad stopped walking and you know
you're going to find the way andthere's no way so she's just
stopped and there's a group ofpeople there and they're minding
their business having aconversation blocking up the
entire path but that doesn'tmatter um and I was just stood
there and one of the women againwith Josie in the harness one of
(11:58):
the women turned around and justwent are you okay and then I was
like oh yeah like I'm Grant andin the same sentence she saw
Josie and went oh Jesus sorryI'm blind as a bat and then just
no apology and usually whenpeople say that to me they're
like oh my god I'm so sorry andI was kind of like I appreciated
just the normality of thatsentence.
(12:19):
And I don't mean that she wasbeing insensitive because she
wasn't, but that's a normalthing to say.
You know what I mean?
Like that just comes out ofpeople's mouths in the same
ways.
Oh, see you later.
Like I say, see you later.
I say, oh, I'm going to go tothe cinema, see that movie.
Like, no, I'm not.
You know what I mean?
But it just gets too difficultto be entirely politically
correct all the time.
And I appreciated how normal shewas and how she didn't other me.
(12:42):
if that makes sense.
She was just, oh, blind as abat, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
No, I think that's a really interesting story
actually.
It does highlight that becausepeople can get so wound up on
language and it is a veryimportant thing and the language
that we use can be crucial andwe do need to be mindful in many
circumstances of the language weuse to describe things or to be
mindful of how people want to beaddressed.
But at the same time, yes, thatkind of normal patterns of
(13:09):
speech that we have, as you say,I don't want to be made to feel
different.
I don't want people to stopsaying C or any of those things
because it just makes you stickout.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
no, exactly.
And again, I'm not talkingabout...
You know, there are parts oflanguage that are to do with
respect and dignity of others.
I'm not talking about that.
And this person was not beingdisrespectful at all.
It was just a turn of phrase.
And loads of people, if they hadsaid it to me before, they would
have been terrified that theywould offend me.
Like, if you offend me, youdeserve an award.
(13:41):
It takes a lot.
It's not going to happen.
And I think that's the same foranyone who I've met who is
extremely, like, outwardlycomfortable with their
disability.
At the same time, it would takea lot to offend them.
So chances are, you know, you'renot going to be rude.
It's not, you know, that's adifferent thing.
But just ask if you're if you'renervous.
(14:02):
And if you if you do feel likeyou made a mistake, then make a
joke about, you know, jokes onyou, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah, I think humor for me is often my go to, you
know, it would be my way of if Ifeel like, you know, because you
do feel embarrassed if you dosomething wrong.
that you feel is stupid.
It is not stupid.
You couldn't see you didsomething, but you, you did
something and you feel daft andwhatever.
And my go-to was to make it likejoke of it.
Oh, you know?
Um, so I think that it is a verypowerful, powerful tool and I
(14:30):
think it can help other peopleto not feel awkward as well.
Um, that, that you're okay withit and therefore they can be
okay with things.
And I, and I think that that's,but it, but it's can be
difficult for some, you know,not everyone is able to do that.
And I, I think this is, Alwaysthe problem with everything,
isn't it, that everyone is sodifferent.
(14:51):
There is no two people the same.
And the way people feel aboutthemselves and about their
disability and all of that, itchanges as well.
You know, so certainly for me,when I was very young, I didn't
want anyone to know I couldn'tsee properly.
and still wouldn't use a caneand then now that I'm a bit
older so shall we say a bit moremature I do now use a simple
(15:16):
cane and I'm okay with itwhereas I would not have been
okay when I was in my 20s so Ithink it's interesting but now I
kind of recognise what does itmatter if people can tell I
can't see now it's an advantagebecause occasionally they offer
me a seat on the train or youknow I might not get run down by
the car when I'm crossing theroad So, you know, I think it is
(15:39):
an interesting one.
SPEAKER_03 (15:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think everyone'sexperiences, and like you were
saying, Madeline, about people'sfeelings towards their
disability, they change all thetime.
Like when I was growing up, myparents, sight has never been
fantastic.
It was a lot better than what itis now, obviously.
But when I was growing up, I wasin and out of the doctor's
office all the time.
Surgery was a very big part ofmy life and still is.
So it was in one way, it wasextremely obvious to me that I
(16:07):
couldn't see.
But it was like I would leavethe doctor's office and go,
that's that now.
I can stay there.
And I go to school and go to myswimming or whatever, horse
riding, whatever it was that Iwas doing.
And I just live my life.
And, you know, it would I can'tremember if it was at the back
of my mind or not.
I presume it was to an extent,again, because of all the
(16:28):
surgeries.
Like, I'm talking every sixweeks.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Wow, so very frequent.
SPEAKER_03 (16:32):
Yeah, so, like, that's going to be in the back
of your head.
But, like, it wasn't to theextent that I developed feelings
towards it, other than thefeeling of hatred.
And then when I was 16, I wasvery stubborn walking in to do
my junior cert exam and And Iwas crossing a massive road and
I got knocked down by a cyclist.
(16:54):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I remember I went home lateron that day back to my mom
expecting sympathy.
And my mom straight away wasjust like, where was your cane?
And I was like, in my room, likewhere it should be.
You know what I mean?
Tucked away.
Oh, the poor cyclist.
And I was like...
hello like did you hear both ofmy shoes came off I was airborne
(17:17):
like what um but obviously youknow she was right at the time
because your mom had no ideawhat was going on and now I feel
bad for him because he didnothing wrong you know it was it
was actually me that was in thewrong because how was he meant
to know that I couldn't see itfrom his point of view I walked
straight out in front of himyeah um so ever since then I I
used the cane I used the canefor five years and then got
Josie which is he was a lotcuter than the cane um and I
(17:41):
found the cane to be a socialdeterrent, like it was
horrendous.
And that's just my experience.
I know loads of people that havehad really positive experiences
with it.
It's a personal thing.
But my whole life changed when Igot Josie.
But I suppose at that moment,then I was like, well, I have no
choice now.
You know, I've been so stubbornup until that point.
But it was then obviously asafety hazard.
Like, thank God it was a bike.
(18:03):
So then at that point, I startedto acknowledge it more, think
about it more.
And within two years, I hadreally...
really kind of grabbed it andyou know like made it a brand as
such um and and tried to workwith it as best as I could and
there were obviously aspects ofit that I was still stubborn
(18:24):
towards like I was allergic toscreen readers up until two
years ago when I lost all mysight and I found myself in the
exact same position I went okaywell if I want to continue to
work I need to learn to use howto like how to use a computer um
so I need to use screen readerand shameless plug I would not
have been able to do thatwithout Vision Ireland like they
were absolutely incredible theVI Labs team were amazing like
(18:48):
there's no way that I'd be doingwhat I'm doing today without
them and I said to them Dorianwas the guy who gave me my first
lesson and I said look This isreally stressing me out.
Like, you don't understand howstressful this is.
I need to go so slow.
I am having a heart attack.
And he was like, we haven't eventurned on the computer.
Like, what's going on?
But Dorian and the rest of themas well, patients of a saint.
(19:10):
And so they really supported meand got me through that.
So even though I had developedsuch positive feelings towards
it, I still was so stubbornabout it.
And I think it's thatinternalized feeling.
ableism that a lot of peoplewith disabilities have no I will
not use a screen reader I don'twant to be the one whose
computer talks to me you know Ican read I will use the eyes
that I have um which to anextent yeah if you still have
(19:32):
workable vision 100% takeadvantage but also my life would
have been so much easier I wouldhave been so much more efficient
if I did take advantage of thescreen readers um that I use
today so yeah it's a mixed bag Ithink everyone goes through
their own journey
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
They do.
And I think that, you know, thatstubbornness, you know, although
in some ways you'd say was, youknow, a disadvantage, you could
have done things better, but italso gave you determination that
you did still get on and do.
And it's kind of trying to getthat balance right, I think,
between, you know, not...
It can be very...
It's a slightly different thingthan using the screen readers,
but it can be very easy to letsomeone do things for you.
(20:08):
And rather than trying to do ityourself, you know what I mean?
It's kind of like that in a way.
So it's sort of...
You know, not giving in, Iguess, isn't it?
A bit.
But knowing when the time isthat you need to take on that
extra bit of support, whether itbe a screen news or whatever.
I actually think another reallyimportant thing is the people
(20:32):
around you, the people in yourlife.
You know, and you're talkingabout your mum there and her
attitude.
And it sounds like, you know,your family was just so
wonderful in the sense that theydidn't wrap you up in cotton
wool.
and stop you from doing things.
And I think that's so importantbecause if we don't get that
kind of, you know, I have hadsight loss since I was a child
(20:55):
and I was very lucky to besurrounded by people who, again,
just sort of, you know, yeah,you just get on and do things.
You're in the family and youhave to do the washing up and do
whatever the other thingseveryone else is doing.
And I think that that is soimportant because it gives
people that belief and itdoesn't make them feel
different.
And because we can, you know, wemay have to do things in a
(21:17):
slightly different way.
But there's most of things thatanyone else can do.
Someone with sight loss can do,too.
SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
One hundred percent.
And my family have been amazing.
There's no way that I would be.
I would have the same attitudethat I have and the same
perseverance and everything thatI have without my family.
They've been amazing.
instrumental in developing thatresilience and developing that
need and the desire to do more,achieve more, get up every day
(21:43):
and do life.
You know, it's not that I wantto achieve more than anyone
else, but also when you do havea disability, I think there is
this feeling of a race thatyou're always trying to keep up
or sometimes overtake yourpeers.
And sometimes that's reallyhard.
Sometimes it's possible.
Sometimes it's not possible.
But it is about leaning on thepeople in your support network
(22:04):
that you have, but also whilemaintaining that slight level of
control.
And what I mean by that is Ididn't go to Dorian for those
tech lessons until I needed to,until I wanted to.
You know, I was in control ofwhen I started that.
And then that's not to say, youknow, obviously going forward
then when I was, okay, I'veacknowledged that I'm doing this
(22:26):
now.
I'm in this journey.
I'm going to work with Dorianand his schedule.
But the key is that I startedwhen I was ready.
And there are loads of differentways that you can do that.
Like that's about the techsense.
But like when you have to askfor help for whatever it may be,
what helps me is justmaintaining that slight level of
control.
Not to the point like you otherpeople might not realize that
(22:47):
you're doing it, but just inyour head, you know what's going
on.
You have a plan and you know whyand what you need from what
you're doing and why you'redoing it.
That's really important.
But the people in your life arewhat keep you going they're what
build you up um and they're whatknock you down a few pegs when
you need that too that's good ifyou get two big
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
people exactly like like everyone else no i think
that that's a really good pointyou know as you say having
having the control and knowingwhat when it's right for you uh
because you know we're all thatyou know telling people saying
to people you should be doingyou know why don't you use the
cane or why don't you whateverbut if they're not ready you're
not ready And I think there'sjust so much built into all of
(23:29):
that, isn't there?
As you said, it's aboutacceptance, I think, a lot of
the time, isn't it?
As to what you're ready for interms of your journey.
And that's just so importantthat that is down to the
individual.
And we can give people adviceand support, but at the end of
(23:50):
the day, it's their choice.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
That's the thing.
And it's not to say, you know,Take control, be controlling.
I'm not saying that obviouslythat has a negative connotation
to it.
I'm not saying that you need togo around being a controlling
person because you're not goingto get very far doing that.
What I am saying, though, is inyour head, you need to go on
that journey and go on that kindof open up that conversation in
(24:14):
your mind so that you realizewhy you're doing this.
what you want out of it and howyou would like things to proceed
and when you have thatunderstanding in your head and
you develop the actual desire todo it all of a sudden if someone
goes actually i can't do it thatway but i can do it this way
that level of control that youthought you have it might
dwindle a little bit but becauseyou've developed the urge and
(24:36):
the passion for it it doesn'tmatter so much but it's about
developing that real want anddesire to do it in the first
place um and i think that's themost important thing because a
lot of people with disabilitieswould find that their minds are
made up for them, that theirvoices are taken away by others
in the room who say, no, no,sure.
She won't do that.
Or even like when you're out,um, and you're ordering
(24:58):
something at a restaurant, forexample, and the person is
taking the order and they lookat your person who you're with
and they go, what does she want?
She goes, actually, I'll tellyou what I want, thank you.
So that's what we come upagainst and that's what we're so
afraid of.
So that's what I mean by takingback the control in your head.
It's not to be a verycontrolling, abrupt individual
because that's not nice.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
But
SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
it's important to develop that autonomy in your
head.
And then all of a sudden whensomeone goes, I can't do it that
way, but how about we do it thisway?
Okay, yeah, no problem, becauseI now really want to learn how
to use a computer.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's so important.
So, I mean, what would you saywould be your message to the
sighted community, if you like,in terms of how they should
interact with somebody they comeacross who's blind or vision
impaired?
SPEAKER_03 (25:45):
I, that's a big question.
I don't know what the, there'slots of messages, I think,
depending on the time of day.
It's only awkward if you makeit.
Yeah.
And it's only as big a deal asyou make it.
A lot of the times people whoare blind or visually impaired
will know what they need.
to get them through thesituation or so that they can be
(26:07):
the most productive.
In work, I know what supports Ineed so that I can be the most
efficient and the mostproductive for the company that
I work for.
When I'm in a social situation,a lot of the time I don't need
any extra accommodations.
That might be different forsomeone else.
But if you say, hey, we're aboutto go into a place, the lighting
is really low and the tables arereally high.
Would you prefer if we satoutside or what works better for
(26:29):
you?
The person who's blind orvisually impaired is going to
have an answer to that, and thatmight be, it makes no
difference, or I'll give it a goinside, and we might go outside
if it doesn't suit.
You have to remember, and I madethis joke a few weeks ago, that
a lot of the time, depending onour age and how long we've had
our visual impairment for, Icall myself a professional blind
person.
I've had 20 years experience, 26years experience, and I've never
(26:52):
taken a day off.
So I know what I need in a lotof situations.
If I don't know what I need, themore information that you can
give me about the situation, thebetter.
But a lot of times, from mypoint of view and in my
experience, this might not bethe same for everyone, but I
have found that the people thatdon't have any disabilities are
always more stressed than thepeople with disabilities.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Yeah, interesting.
And again, I
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
don't know if that's a sweeping statement and I'm
aware of that.
It might not be everyone'sexperience, but that's my point
of view from it sometimes.
And if you think about itlogically, I'm not going to put
myself in a situation where Idon't think I'm going to thrive.
If I don't think I'm going tothrive in a situation, chances
are I'm going to have a lot ofpeople around me that I know I
can rely on and ask for supportso that if I do feel like I'm
(27:39):
crashing and burning, I can getout of there before the fire
starts, you know?
So...
Trust us and trust that it'sonly as awkward as you make it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
I think that's a very good, very good advice.
And I think if we can get thatmessage out there, that would be
job well done.
Absolutely.
Easy peasy.
Easy peasy.
Exactly.
Easy peasy.
Well, thank you so much.
It's been really fascinatingtalking to you today, Bobby.
I really do appreciate it.
And, you know, Bobby alluded tothe services that she's availed
(28:10):
of in Vision Island.
So if, you know, anything isgoing to touch a chord there
with you and you feel that youneed support from Vision Island,
you can always look on ourwebsite which is www.vi.ie or
you can call our informationline on 1-800-911-250 that's
1-800-911-250 well thank youvery much for listening everyone
(28:38):
and we'll talk to you next timebye bye
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Welcome to Advocacy Talks, a podcast from the
advocacy team at Vision Ireland.
Here's what's coming up on thisepisode.
SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
I'm not embarrassed about it anymore.
I'm not ashamed about it.
You know, there's, I think, farmore interesting things about me
other than my disability, butit's not a topic that I'm shying
away from.
It's not something that I kindof avoid talking about, whereas
previously in my own experiencesand my own journey that I've
gone on, I would have beenreally offended.
And if someone called medisabled or blind, I would have
(00:33):
taken that as an insult.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
And now here's Madeleine McNamara.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Hello everybody, Madeleine here and you're very
welcome to Advocacy Talks withVision Island today and thank
you so much for joining meagain.
On our last podcast, I had afascinating conversation with
Titi Matsunen, who is actuallythe president of the European
Blind Union.
And we had a great conversationabout her role, but also about
(01:00):
what it's like living in Finlandas a person who is blind or
vision impaired.
So I have to apologize that thesound quality on that on her
side is not very good, but it'snot her fault.
It was totally down to technicalissues at our end.
So apologies for that.
But if you can bear to give it ago and listen, it was really
worth listening to because shewas a very fascinating lady.
(01:21):
Well today I'm joined by anotherfascinating lady.
I'm joined by Bobbi Hickey whoworks in the equality, diversity
and inclusion space.
She's also a service user ofVision Ireland and is completely
blind.
So welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me Madeleine, I
appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
Oh, you're very welcome.
You're an amazing lady.
I see you all over the place inLinkedIn, putting up amazing
things there.
But recently you had an articlein the Irish Times.
SPEAKER_03 (01:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I fell victim to the LinkedInbug.
I previously wasn't a big fan,but I've gotten a little bit
better at it now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Well, I think you're very good.
You're definitely getting theword out.
And, you know, you're an amazingadvocate, I think, in the space.
But just saying, how did thearticle in the Irish Times come
about?
SPEAKER_03 (02:17):
Yeah, thank you.
So I previously in about 2018, Iwould have been a part of a
column series in the Irish Timescalled the Platform Series and a
basically kind of.
put a spotlight on what it'slike living with a disability in
Ireland, growing up in Irelandwith a disability and everyone's
different journeys and differentexperiences.
And I would have gotten thatopportunity actually through
Vision Ireland or NCBI at thetime.
(02:39):
So to be honest with you, thatlasted about a year.
And ever since then, I kept theeditor's email.
So I can't just tend to send himmy little drafts or my diary
entries and see how far I get.
So in fairness to him is DamienCullen is his name.
And he's the editor of theHealth and Family Supplement.
And he's really good.
(03:00):
He's very supportive.
So in fairness, that's how I didit.
A little bit cheeky of me.
But if you don't ask, you'llnever get.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Absolutely.
You have to be proactive inthese things.
And I It's certainly a reallyinteresting article.
And for those people who may nothave seen it, maybe you could
just tell us a little bit aboutwhat you were saying there.
I mean, it was about being proudof disability, I think, of your
disability, but also, you know,the different ways that people
react to the fact that you'reblind.
SPEAKER_03 (03:28):
Yeah, I think I was telling someone about my article
and the content of it, and theyturned around to me and they
were like, but are you proud ofyour disability?
And for me, the main thing is,I'm not embarrassed about it
anymore.
I'm not ashamed about it.
You know, there's, I think, farmore interesting things about me
other than my disability, butit's not a topic that I'm shying
(03:49):
away from.
It's not something that I kindof avoid talking about, whereas
previously in my own experiencesand my own journey that I've
gone on, I would have beenreally offended.
And if someone called medisabled or blind, I would have
taken that as an insult.
So in my own journey, that'sjust something that I'm really
proud of.
myself and the kind of the timesthat I've been through that I'm
no longer embarrassed and Idon't run away from it anymore.
(04:11):
The article was about thatjourney and the kind of the
times that I've been through andthe experiences that have led me
to where I am today.
And also, I suppose over thelast two years, I've lost all of
my sight due to a series ofunfortunate events, we'll call
it to keep it simple.
But now it's pretty much allgone.
So I now I'm fully blind for thefirst time.
(04:33):
And I suppose it's about my kindof narrative I have in my head
of, yes, I am proud of beingblind, but also the efforts that
I go to to not come across asblind because of society's norms
and the ideas that people haveabout people with disability in
their heads and how we'repainted out to be less than
(04:54):
sometimes.
I go to massive lengths to makesure I don't look like a poor
blind person, if that makessense, because whenever I tell
people that I'm blind they'realways oh my god I didn't
realise you were blind as injeez I didn't realise someone
could be well dressed and blindI didn't realise blind people
were allowed out on their ownyou know what I mean I didn't
realise blind people likecocktails like all these things
(05:15):
that are just part of normallife but for whatever reason
they're just not seen to be partof having a disability.
So the article was abouttackling that stigma that we all
have, like we all haveunconscious biases.
You know, like just because I'ma person with a disability
doesn't mean that I don't havebiases towards other people.
It's part of being a human.
But I suppose the article wasabout tackling that and through
(05:37):
no fault of our own, it exists.
So it's just about the kind ofinner dialogue that I would
have.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, and it's a huge pressure then on you and on
people know other people whohave disabilities but you know
particularly we're talking todayabout people who are blind or
vision impaired so that's a hugepressure that you have to feel
you know that you don't want tolook blind and and i can
identify with that certainly umin my younger years um i'm also
you know vision impaired i dostill have some some useful
(06:05):
sight but would be um kind of ata level that's counted as blind
but i have sight so you know umbut certainly i know that in my
in my young days no i did notwant anyone to know I couldn't
see.
So I wouldn't use a cane, asimple cane or anything, and
just got out there and didn'twant people, didn't want anyone
(06:25):
to know.
You just want to be likeeverybody else.
But it is that kind ofcompetition is in a way in your
head, isn't it?
That on one hand, I found anywaythat I didn't want people to
know I was blind, but I stillwanted people to give me help if
I needed it.
You know, you want people torecognize
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
in some ways as well.
It's almost like you want to...
We'll talk about it when it'srelevant, but then as soon as
it's not relevant anymore, okay,that's fine.
Enough now.
You know what I mean?
We never had that conversation.
And I think it's just about...
like something that I findfascinating is when people
realize that I'm blind, it'salmost like, OK, now I just have
(07:03):
to make sure they still think ofme the same way they thought of
me before.
Just as, you know, a girl likeat the dog park, for example,
just sitting there, her dog'splaying, whatever.
Like when I bring Josie to thedog park, everyone's always
like, oh, are you walking herfor your blind friend?
No, if I was doing that, shewouldn't be in the harness.
You know what I mean?
So it's just about kind ofkeeping up that same level of of
(07:27):
respect, expectation, and Isuppose just common decency when
it comes to people thinking thesame of you when they realize
that you have a disability.
I find it so insane that peopledon't think I'm blind.
I suppose for a perspective, myeyes do look different.
(07:47):
I would think they're quiteobviously different.
I obviously can't see them, butone is quite big and one is
really small.
So I kind of look like an emoji.
So it's quite obvious.
And like, that's fine.
It doesn't bother me.
I wear sunglasses when I'moutside anyway, purely for
protection purposes.
So people often assume that I'mnot blind, but that's hilarious
(08:08):
because I'm completely blind.
And I know people that have alittle bit more sight than me
are still legally blind, butthey have a little bit more
sight than me.
And people are like, oh, yeah,they're definitely blind.
And I wonder then, is it a thingof the people that have a little
bit more sight than me, but arestill blind?
Are they trying to use theirobviously their usable sight
that they have, which is great.
(08:29):
But then I suppose.
it's a little bit morechallenging to do that so maybe
that makes them look more blindand I'm just like well there's
no point in trying so I'll justI'll just ignore the fact that I
have the eyes you know
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
yeah it's a tricky one because yeah my eyes would
look very different as well andso when I was younger I didn't
have any kind of glasses oranything like that so you I
think it was fairly obvious butto me I I didn't I suppose
wasn't so aware of that and Ijust went on as if nobody could
tell you know but then now Ihave I have glasses and the the
funny thing is that I think insome ways that doesn't that
(09:00):
makes me look not blind becausemy eyes are very small and so
without the glasses it's veryobvious but of course the
glasses are so the magnificationon them is so huge that I think
it probably makes my eyes lookmore normal do you know yeah
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
so I think glasses are so normal now anyway though
like like glasses are so commonblindness is so common obviously
legally blind that's that's astep that's a bigger well I
think it's that
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
It's that weird thing that glasses are so
common, but I think blindness isnot so common.
And what I find interesting isthat people assume that if you
wear glasses, it must fix it.
You know, so because you'rewearing glasses, you must be
able to see fully.
And I think that is what peoplefind difficult, that, no, I have
glasses, but I still only have10% sight.
You know, so it's like, oh.
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Like when I was younger and Iwould wear glasses and they were
just for protection.
And everyone, oh, like you wearglasses, so can you see the
board in school with theglasses?
And I was like, no, no.
I didn't realise that peoplewould wear glasses, you know, to
help their sight.
Now, that was when I was veryyoung, like we're talking like
seven or eight.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
But
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
I didn't realise that actually glasses had like a
function that could be toactually help your eyesight.
Whenever I was younger, everyonewas like, oh, like, you know,
what's wrong with your eyes orwhatever, and they would
automatically assume it's a lazyeye.
And obviously, yes, they'relazy, but not in the way you
think.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, exactly.
I think it's a really daftmedical term for an eye
condition, I think, lazy eye,because I don't think anybody's
I don't know.
It's very literal.
It is.
It is.
It is very much so.
But then you get the reversethen when people come in a group
(10:41):
of people and people will besaying, oh, gosh, I'm totally
blind.
You know, I can't see anything.
You know, when I get up and Ican't find my earrings and I
can't find my bloody blah.
But then they put the glasses onand they've got 20-20 vision.
And it's just like thedisconnect.
And they're sitting there andI'm in the group and they know
that I have, you know, problems.
And there's just that.
Just total lack of recognitionof the difference between them
(11:04):
struggling first thing in themorning to find their glasses
and me not being able to seewell the whole time.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
that's very interesting.
And like, obviously, when peopleare insensitive about it, that's
a different story.
But I have found the oppositethat way.
a lot of people that I wouldspeak to would be quite awkward
about using the word see in asentence like oh see you later
oh sorry I didn't mean see Imeant I'll talk to you soon and
it's like oh my god can we calmdown please I was walking the
other day like last week um andobviously obviously no sight so
(11:36):
I kind of geolocate with my earsum and there was a group of
people in front of me and Josiehad stopped walking and you know
you're going to find the way andthere's no way so she's just
stopped and there's a group ofpeople there and they're minding
their business having aconversation blocking up the
entire path but that doesn'tmatter um and I was just stood
there and one of the women againwith Josie in the harness one of
(11:58):
the women turned around and justwent are you okay and then I was
like oh yeah like I'm Grant andin the same sentence she saw
Josie and went oh Jesus sorryI'm blind as a bat and then just
no apology and usually whenpeople say that to me they're
like oh my god I'm so sorry andI was kind of like I appreciated
just the normality of thatsentence.
(12:19):
And I don't mean that she wasbeing insensitive because she
wasn't, but that's a normalthing to say.
You know what I mean?
Like that just comes out ofpeople's mouths in the same
ways.
Oh, see you later.
Like I say, see you later.
I say, oh, I'm going to go tothe cinema, see that movie.
Like, no, I'm not.
You know what I mean?
But it just gets too difficultto be entirely politically
correct all the time.
And I appreciated how normal shewas and how she didn't other me.
(12:42):
if that makes sense.
She was just, oh, blind as abat, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
No, I think that's a really interesting story
actually.
It does highlight that becausepeople can get so wound up on
language and it is a veryimportant thing and the language
that we use can be crucial andwe do need to be mindful in many
circumstances of the language weuse to describe things or to be
mindful of how people want to beaddressed.
But at the same time, yes, thatkind of normal patterns of
(13:09):
speech that we have, as you say,I don't want to be made to feel
different.
I don't want people to stopsaying C or any of those things
because it just makes you stickout.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
no, exactly.
And again, I'm not talkingabout...
You know, there are parts oflanguage that are to do with
respect and dignity of others.
I'm not talking about that.
And this person was not beingdisrespectful at all.
It was just a turn of phrase.
And loads of people, if they hadsaid it to me before, they would
have been terrified that theywould offend me.
Like, if you offend me, youdeserve an award.
(13:41):
It takes a lot.
It's not going to happen.
And I think that's the same foranyone who I've met who is
extremely, like, outwardlycomfortable with their
disability.
At the same time, it would takea lot to offend them.
So chances are, you know, you'renot going to be rude.
It's not, you know, that's adifferent thing.
But just ask if you're if you'renervous.
(14:02):
And if you if you do feel likeyou made a mistake, then make a
joke about, you know, jokes onyou, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah, I think humor for me is often my go to, you
know, it would be my way of if Ifeel like, you know, because you
do feel embarrassed if you dosomething wrong.
that you feel is stupid.
It is not stupid.
You couldn't see you didsomething, but you, you did
something and you feel daft andwhatever.
And my go-to was to make it likejoke of it.
Oh, you know?
Um, so I think that it is a verypowerful, powerful tool and I
(14:30):
think it can help other peopleto not feel awkward as well.
Um, that, that you're okay withit and therefore they can be
okay with things.
And I, and I think that that's,but it, but it's can be
difficult for some, you know,not everyone is able to do that.
And I, I think this is, Alwaysthe problem with everything,
isn't it, that everyone is sodifferent.
(14:51):
There is no two people the same.
And the way people feel aboutthemselves and about their
disability and all of that, itchanges as well.
You know, so certainly for me,when I was very young, I didn't
want anyone to know I couldn'tsee properly.
and still wouldn't use a caneand then now that I'm a bit
older so shall we say a bit moremature I do now use a simple
(15:16):
cane and I'm okay with itwhereas I would not have been
okay when I was in my 20s so Ithink it's interesting but now I
kind of recognise what does itmatter if people can tell I
can't see now it's an advantagebecause occasionally they offer
me a seat on the train or youknow I might not get run down by
the car when I'm crossing theroad So, you know, I think it is
(15:39):
an interesting one.
SPEAKER_03 (15:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think everyone'sexperiences, and like you were
saying, Madeline, about people'sfeelings towards their
disability, they change all thetime.
Like when I was growing up, myparents, sight has never been
fantastic.
It was a lot better than what itis now, obviously.
But when I was growing up, I wasin and out of the doctor's
office all the time.
Surgery was a very big part ofmy life and still is.
So it was in one way, it wasextremely obvious to me that I
(16:07):
couldn't see.
But it was like I would leavethe doctor's office and go,
that's that now.
I can stay there.
And I go to school and go to myswimming or whatever, horse
riding, whatever it was that Iwas doing.
And I just live my life.
And, you know, it would I can'tremember if it was at the back
of my mind or not.
I presume it was to an extent,again, because of all the
(16:28):
surgeries.
Like, I'm talking every sixweeks.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Wow, so very frequent.
SPEAKER_03 (16:32):
Yeah, so, like, that's going to be in the back
of your head.
But, like, it wasn't to theextent that I developed feelings
towards it, other than thefeeling of hatred.
And then when I was 16, I wasvery stubborn walking in to do
my junior cert exam and And Iwas crossing a massive road and
I got knocked down by a cyclist.
(16:54):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I remember I went home lateron that day back to my mom
expecting sympathy.
And my mom straight away wasjust like, where was your cane?
And I was like, in my room, likewhere it should be.
You know what I mean?
Tucked away.
Oh, the poor cyclist.
And I was like...
hello like did you hear both ofmy shoes came off I was airborne
(17:17):
like what um but obviously youknow she was right at the time
because your mom had no ideawhat was going on and now I feel
bad for him because he didnothing wrong you know it was it
was actually me that was in thewrong because how was he meant
to know that I couldn't see itfrom his point of view I walked
straight out in front of himyeah um so ever since then I I
used the cane I used the canefor five years and then got
Josie which is he was a lotcuter than the cane um and I
(17:41):
found the cane to be a socialdeterrent, like it was
horrendous.
And that's just my experience.
I know loads of people that havehad really positive experiences
with it.
It's a personal thing.
But my whole life changed when Igot Josie.
But I suppose at that moment,then I was like, well, I have no
choice now.
You know, I've been so stubbornup until that point.
But it was then obviously asafety hazard.
Like, thank God it was a bike.
(18:03):
So then at that point, I startedto acknowledge it more, think
about it more.
And within two years, I hadreally...
really kind of grabbed it andyou know like made it a brand as
such um and and tried to workwith it as best as I could and
there were obviously aspects ofit that I was still stubborn
(18:24):
towards like I was allergic toscreen readers up until two
years ago when I lost all mysight and I found myself in the
exact same position I went okaywell if I want to continue to
work I need to learn to use howto like how to use a computer um
so I need to use screen readerand shameless plug I would not
have been able to do thatwithout Vision Ireland like they
were absolutely incredible theVI Labs team were amazing like
(18:48):
there's no way that I'd be doingwhat I'm doing today without
them and I said to them Dorianwas the guy who gave me my first
lesson and I said look This isreally stressing me out.
Like, you don't understand howstressful this is.
I need to go so slow.
I am having a heart attack.
And he was like, we haven't eventurned on the computer.
Like, what's going on?
But Dorian and the rest of themas well, patients of a saint.
(19:10):
And so they really supported meand got me through that.
So even though I had developedsuch positive feelings towards
it, I still was so stubbornabout it.
And I think it's thatinternalized feeling.
ableism that a lot of peoplewith disabilities have no I will
not use a screen reader I don'twant to be the one whose
computer talks to me you know Ican read I will use the eyes
that I have um which to anextent yeah if you still have
(19:32):
workable vision 100% takeadvantage but also my life would
have been so much easier I wouldhave been so much more efficient
if I did take advantage of thescreen readers um that I use
today so yeah it's a mixed bag Ithink everyone goes through
their own journey
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
They do.
And I think that, you know, thatstubbornness, you know, although
in some ways you'd say was, youknow, a disadvantage, you could
have done things better, but italso gave you determination that
you did still get on and do.
And it's kind of trying to getthat balance right, I think,
between, you know, not...
It can be very...
It's a slightly different thingthan using the screen readers,
but it can be very easy to letsomeone do things for you.
(20:08):
And rather than trying to do ityourself, you know what I mean?
It's kind of like that in a way.
So it's sort of...
You know, not giving in, Iguess, isn't it?
A bit.
But knowing when the time isthat you need to take on that
extra bit of support, whether itbe a screen news or whatever.
I actually think another reallyimportant thing is the people
(20:32):
around you, the people in yourlife.
You know, and you're talkingabout your mum there and her
attitude.
And it sounds like, you know,your family was just so
wonderful in the sense that theydidn't wrap you up in cotton
wool.
and stop you from doing things.
And I think that's so importantbecause if we don't get that
kind of, you know, I have hadsight loss since I was a child
(20:55):
and I was very lucky to besurrounded by people who, again,
just sort of, you know, yeah,you just get on and do things.
You're in the family and youhave to do the washing up and do
whatever the other thingseveryone else is doing.
And I think that that is soimportant because it gives
people that belief and itdoesn't make them feel
different.
And because we can, you know, wemay have to do things in a
(21:17):
slightly different way.
But there's most of things thatanyone else can do.
Someone with sight loss can do,too.
SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
One hundred percent.
And my family have been amazing.
There's no way that I would be.
I would have the same attitudethat I have and the same
perseverance and everything thatI have without my family.
They've been amazing.
instrumental in developing thatresilience and developing that
need and the desire to do more,achieve more, get up every day
(21:43):
and do life.
You know, it's not that I wantto achieve more than anyone
else, but also when you do havea disability, I think there is
this feeling of a race thatyou're always trying to keep up
or sometimes overtake yourpeers.
And sometimes that's reallyhard.
Sometimes it's possible.
Sometimes it's not possible.
But it is about leaning on thepeople in your support network
(22:04):
that you have, but also whilemaintaining that slight level of
control.
And what I mean by that is Ididn't go to Dorian for those
tech lessons until I needed to,until I wanted to.
You know, I was in control ofwhen I started that.
And then that's not to say, youknow, obviously going forward
then when I was, okay, I'veacknowledged that I'm doing this
(22:26):
now.
I'm in this journey.
I'm going to work with Dorianand his schedule.
But the key is that I startedwhen I was ready.
And there are loads of differentways that you can do that.
Like that's about the techsense.
But like when you have to askfor help for whatever it may be,
what helps me is justmaintaining that slight level of
control.
Not to the point like you otherpeople might not realize that
(22:47):
you're doing it, but just inyour head, you know what's going
on.
You have a plan and you know whyand what you need from what
you're doing and why you'redoing it.
That's really important.
But the people in your life arewhat keep you going they're what
build you up um and they're whatknock you down a few pegs when
you need that too that's good ifyou get two big
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
people exactly like like everyone else no i think
that that's a really good pointyou know as you say having
having the control and knowingwhat when it's right for you uh
because you know we're all thatyou know telling people saying
to people you should be doingyou know why don't you use the
cane or why don't you whateverbut if they're not ready you're
not ready And I think there'sjust so much built into all of
(23:29):
that, isn't there?
As you said, it's aboutacceptance, I think, a lot of
the time, isn't it?
As to what you're ready for interms of your journey.
And that's just so importantthat that is down to the
individual.
And we can give people adviceand support, but at the end of
(23:50):
the day, it's their choice.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
That's the thing.
And it's not to say, you know,Take control, be controlling.
I'm not saying that obviouslythat has a negative connotation
to it.
I'm not saying that you need togo around being a controlling
person because you're not goingto get very far doing that.
What I am saying, though, is inyour head, you need to go on
that journey and go on that kindof open up that conversation in
(24:14):
your mind so that you realizewhy you're doing this.
what you want out of it and howyou would like things to proceed
and when you have thatunderstanding in your head and
you develop the actual desire todo it all of a sudden if someone
goes actually i can't do it thatway but i can do it this way
that level of control that youthought you have it might
dwindle a little bit but becauseyou've developed the urge and
(24:36):
the passion for it it doesn'tmatter so much but it's about
developing that real want anddesire to do it in the first
place um and i think that's themost important thing because a
lot of people with disabilitieswould find that their minds are
made up for them, that theirvoices are taken away by others
in the room who say, no, no,sure.
She won't do that.
Or even like when you're out,um, and you're ordering
(24:58):
something at a restaurant, forexample, and the person is
taking the order and they lookat your person who you're with
and they go, what does she want?
She goes, actually, I'll tellyou what I want, thank you.
So that's what we come upagainst and that's what we're so
afraid of.
So that's what I mean by takingback the control in your head.
It's not to be a verycontrolling, abrupt individual
because that's not nice.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
But
SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
it's important to develop that autonomy in your
head.
And then all of a sudden whensomeone goes, I can't do it that
way, but how about we do it thisway?
Okay, yeah, no problem, becauseI now really want to learn how
to use a computer.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's so important.
So, I mean, what would you saywould be your message to the
sighted community, if you like,in terms of how they should
interact with somebody they comeacross who's blind or vision
impaired?
SPEAKER_03 (25:45):
I, that's a big question.
I don't know what the, there'slots of messages, I think,
depending on the time of day.
It's only awkward if you makeit.
Yeah.
And it's only as big a deal asyou make it.
A lot of the times people whoare blind or visually impaired
will know what they need.
to get them through thesituation or so that they can be
(26:07):
the most productive.
In work, I know what supports Ineed so that I can be the most
efficient and the mostproductive for the company that
I work for.
When I'm in a social situation,a lot of the time I don't need
any extra accommodations.
That might be different forsomeone else.
But if you say, hey, we're aboutto go into a place, the lighting
is really low and the tables arereally high.
Would you prefer if we satoutside or what works better for
(26:29):
you?
The person who's blind orvisually impaired is going to
have an answer to that, and thatmight be, it makes no
difference, or I'll give it a goinside, and we might go outside
if it doesn't suit.
You have to remember, and I madethis joke a few weeks ago, that
a lot of the time, depending onour age and how long we've had
our visual impairment for, Icall myself a professional blind
person.
I've had 20 years experience, 26years experience, and I've never
(26:52):
taken a day off.
So I know what I need in a lotof situations.
If I don't know what I need, themore information that you can
give me about the situation, thebetter.
But a lot of times, from mypoint of view and in my
experience, this might not bethe same for everyone, but I
have found that the people thatdon't have any disabilities are
always more stressed than thepeople with disabilities.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Yeah, interesting.
And again, I
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
don't know if that's a sweeping statement and I'm
aware of that.
It might not be everyone'sexperience, but that's my point
of view from it sometimes.
And if you think about itlogically, I'm not going to put
myself in a situation where Idon't think I'm going to thrive.
If I don't think I'm going tothrive in a situation, chances
are I'm going to have a lot ofpeople around me that I know I
can rely on and ask for supportso that if I do feel like I'm
(27:39):
crashing and burning, I can getout of there before the fire
starts, you know?
So...
Trust us and trust that it'sonly as awkward as you make it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
I think that's a very good, very good advice.
And I think if we can get thatmessage out there, that would be
job well done.
Absolutely.
Easy peasy.
Easy peasy.
Exactly.
Easy peasy.
Well, thank you so much.
It's been really fascinatingtalking to you today, Bobby.
I really do appreciate it.
And, you know, Bobby alluded tothe services that she's availed
(28:10):
of in Vision Island.
So if, you know, anything isgoing to touch a chord there
with you and you feel that youneed support from Vision Island,
you can always look on ourwebsite which is www.vi.ie or
you can call our informationline on 1-800-911-250 that's
1-800-911-250 well thank youvery much for listening everyone
(28:38):
and we'll talk to you next timebye bye
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
Thanks for listening and see you next time.
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