Dr. Sylvain Charlebois - Unpacking Grocery Costs, Quebec's Culinary Revolution, and... Texas? - Afternoon Pint

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh yeah, it's got like a huge dashboard.
No, it looks like it's good,cool, all right.
Well, cheers, all right, cheers, all right.
Welcome to the Afternoon Pint.
I am Matt Conrad and I am herealone because Mike is recovering
from surgery and I swear dry.
January probably did it to him,I think, probably.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Probably.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
So we are here with our first three-peat, that's
right, our first three-peatguest Listen.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm honored.
I'm honored, in fact, I thinkyou'll recall Matt.
Every time you invite me, Irespond very quickly.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
You do yes.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
You know what?
Listen, I think it's great.
I think we talked a little bitabout this the first time we had
you on.
I've been listening to youspeak for a long time now,
probably since you said you'vebeen here 10 years, so probably
10 years, and at one point it'sone of those things where that's
just a guy on the news andthat's a guy who talks.

(00:58):
It's a name that you hear allthe time and you recognize his
voice and all that stuff.
And then, sure enough, here weare drinking beers for the third
time, have each other onFacebook and all that stuff, and
now I kind of know you on apersonal level, which is really
kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I think that's the magic about Afternoon Pint, I
think, because it's verypersonable, very authentic, and
I think that's probably whyyou're having a whole lot of
success.
I mean, you've had some great,great, great guests over the
last few years.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, I I really appreciate that and your, your
podcast is actually reallytaking off.
You know, the food professor,we were talking before we
started recording that.
Uh, you know you just renewedwith your, uh, with your, your
sponsor, and you're on fiveyears now.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yep Five years.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
And going strong and talking about a lot of great
things.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Our game is Harvard MIT McKinsey, and so people
listen to us more than HarvardMIT McKinsey in Canada.
That's our game, so we're verypleased with results.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
And it's so funny because you've been like I kind
of feel like you've been doingthis.
I mean five years seems like awhile anyway, and it's funny
that you just got the sponsor,so you kind of just I think it's
been six months or somethinglike that, maybe eight months, a
year and a half.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Actually, is it a year and a half?

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, because the last time we sat here and talked
, I think.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, it might be coming up to a year actually, so
maybe my time is just being.
We've had another sponsor andthat sponsor was replaced by
cattle, our current sponsor.
We had a one-year contract andthey just renewed, so we've
actually had a sponsor foralmost two years now okay, yeah,
all right okay yeah, so it wascattle.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So that's good.
So the uh yeah.
So there we, we have it likeit's, it's um right now, I mean,
we're in january but you knowthis is coming out in february,
so yeah um, we, uh, by the timethis airs, um, we are.
Oh, actually, you know what?
And I meant to congratulate youbecause you actually were named
, uh, in the top five for applepodcast as well was I?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
yeah, really yeah.
I didn't know that it's's on.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
LinkedIn.
I think your producer put it up, oh maybe yeah, you were number
four for our Apple Podcastsunder a particular category.
So Apple Podcasts Canada.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Well, that's under management, so that's why.
So, when we actually compareour podcast with others, because
yours is much more open, Ithink yeah, because you're out
there entertaining people, youwant to inform people that's
right we're about, you know,connecting with the food
industry that's right, it's allabout food for us and so we we
look at that ranking veryclosely and we actually reached

(03:34):
number three this year for thefirst time.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
So oh, wow, okay, so it looks like year end.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
You ended at number four, which is pretty awesome
yeah, now, for some reason, indecember, people are bored with
their eggnog.
Well, you know what it's?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
it's it's christmas time and I think you know uh,
budgets and things like thatfood budgets go out the door oh
my god, what am I gonna do?
My turkey exactly.
Yeah, it's all it's it's, andyou know we can even talk a
little bit about that too, like,but uh, it's, it's it, things
go out the door, it's true.
But uh, you know, we, and?
But I know that you just cameout with the food process.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, is Turkey going down?
I think that's when you invitedme back.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, it was when we saw that, so
that's a big reason why we wantto talk about it.
But you have so much stuffthat's happened since we put the
invite out by the time thisairs the tax holiday is gone and
we're going to get to all thatstuff trump will be in, trump
will be in and all the fun stuffthat's going to go along with
that but the uh it I don't knowabout, like I don't know if it's

(04:33):
true or not, but like ourturkey's going down in price
because my turkey was cheaperthis year it was I bought two
turkeys it was.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
yeah well, you're a savvy shopper because, because a
lot of people always oh my God,sylvain, things are more
expensive, more expensive.
I got to say you're not lookingaround.
And, frankly, what I'm noticingis that people are way smarter.
When they go out and groceryshop, they leave the home with
information.
Listen, matt 10, 15 years ago,most people left their homes to

(05:04):
go to a grocery store withoutreally knowing how much they
should be paying for carrots.
Fair enough For turkey.
Internet's probably helped withthat, though, right.
Just to know, but I think peoplestarted to feel the pain at the
grocery store.
100%.
They had less money to spend onfood because of interest rates,
mortgages and debt, and sopeople got really savvy about

(05:28):
their finances and so when theywent to the grocery store this
is why the Loblaw thing kind offaded away, because I love some
people felt you know, ifsomething's too expensive, walk
away.
You have that power and peoplestart to walk away.
Yeah, which is why you'reseeing sobeys and loblaws

(05:49):
deploying different kind ofstrategies to cater to a more
frugal market, and that's kindof what we're seeing right now.
I mean, in ontario, loblaw justopened up three no-name stores.
No-name stores are like dollarstores okay, for so.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
would they be better than the?
What are they called the noFrills?

Speaker 2 (06:12):
It's 10,000 square feet.
Oh, so they're smaller, yeah,basically it's kind of the size
of a little bit larger than thesize of this brewery.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
And yeah, just for that, we're actually at Great
Roads Brewery, just to let youknow, and we are drinking a very
, very fresh seven-day ipa.
Absolutely, it's very good.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I've never actually drank a fresh ipa before yeah,
it's very good it is.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Thank you the brewer.
Yeah, cheers there, cheers overthere.
So anyway, sorry, I cut you off, but yeah, so um what was I
saying?
You were talking about, uh, thesmaller stores that they're
opening.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's called no Name and no Name has no.
So imagine going to the grocerystore with no fridges.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
That's no Name and it's coming here.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
So they don't actually have any frozen foods
or anything like that they havefreezers.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
But they don't have coolers, they don't have fridges
and they a little fresh, nofresh.
So the inventory, tour,turnover, all the labor you need
, right, because when you gointo a grocery store people will
realize you know the inventory,uh in uh, vegetables with
fruits you have to turn liketwice a day.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, of course, yeah .
So it's a lot of work, it'sperishable A lot of labor, yeah,
and you have to deal with that.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
So you can actually operate a 10,000 square feet
store with about eight FTEs,eight full-time employees no way
, wow, okay, so costs are reallylow.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, costs would be really low.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, costs would be really low and at that point…
Ten years ago you wouldn't see astore like that in Canada.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
No, but now they have to.
So they would basically have noproduce and no meats and things
like that Little yeah, thingsthat last a long time, exactly
yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Exactly so you can see that really….
And it's the same with Sobeys,the same with Metro yeah,
they're really more careful.
And even Costco.
I mean a lot of people say, oh,go to Costco, everything's
cheaper.
No, not everything is cheaper.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
No, that's true.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Many things are cheaper.
Yeah, it's 4,000 SKUs, 15%.
That's their model.
But not all 4,000 SKUs arecheaper.
That's right, and people arestarting to realize.
I go to the meat counter atcostco, right?
Have you noticed?
Okay, prices are pretty high.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, okay, so I I actually have this right in here
.
So the talking about meat andthis is the thing I was talking
about how I noticed like turkeyswere cheaper.
I don't remember I bought theturkeys this year, but I bought
them and they were really kindof like.
I bought smaller turkeys thanusual because I always realized
we have too much turkey.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
How big were they?

Speaker 1 (08:48):
I don't know the weight, but I know I was paying
about $22 per turkey.
Five to seven kilos Probablysomething like that, yeah, so I
was like you know, normallyyou're paying like $30, $34,
whatever comes on it, it's $40,right.
And this was, you know, wholeturkey 22 bucks.
I think one of them was 20bucks and one was 22.

(09:08):
And we used the $22 turkey forthe Christmas dinner.
But we bought the $20 turkeybecause we were like, hey, you
know what, why don't we justhave turkey and have it right?
And you know, what we did isthat $20 turkey.
And if you want to be frugal, ifyou want to be smart with your
food and save on your groceries,we took that $20 turkey on a

(09:28):
Sunday and I roasted it Justlike I would for any other thing
, right, cooked the turkey up,basted it and all that stuff,
made it like it was really goodand cut it up.
Obviously, we had turkey fordifferent things.
I ground some of it up, I savedwhatever.
I made turkey soup Like we madewe, we ate.

(09:51):
It was only turkey for thatweek because I made so much in
fact I made so much that I justopened.
We had to freeze some of theturkey soup so, and we just had
some last week, um, but we madea ton of turkey soup like oh,
you can do a lot of oh, I thinkI made like eight liters of
turkey soup or something likethat, and um, and on top of that
, it, top of that, it was likeall the different types of
turkey, between grinding it upbecause I have a meat grinder
Right and slicing it up and allthat stuff, and we made a bunch

(10:13):
of different meals.
That was during the holidays,that was well.
We saved one for the holidaysand we had one that was like the
first week of December orsomething like that, and we just
had turkey that week, right,and it was like the first week
of december or something likethat, and we just had turkey
that week, right.
And it was one of those thingswhere, just, we made different
meals.
Yeah, every day it was somethingdifferent, a different texture
of turkey or whatever it may be.
And, uh, so I was sitting there, you know, and you're looking
at it's like you know what, evenif the turkey was 30 bucks, if

(10:38):
all I ate was turkey that week,for the turkey, that means my
protein for the whole week wasonly 30 dollars.
Yeah, and then you just get tobuy your veggies or if you have
rice, pasta or whatever you wantto mix it in and just be
creative with it.
Right, and we've been doing thatmore and more.
My wife and I have been justbeing more creative.
Now.
Some of it is thanks to thesmaller people in this in the

(11:01):
city.
Yeah, we have gateway.
Obviously it's known for, butI'm a big fan of Kingswood
Market.
Kingswood Market I don't knowwhat's going on there.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Gateway is extending.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, they're huge now.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
And there's still some lineups outside.
But that's why they'reexpanding, because there's more
demand.
But, uh, what you justdescribed me is is the consumer
of the 1970s, right, okay?
Okay we're just recreating,we're reliving because I

(11:35):
remember when I was a kid.
I'm 54 years old yeah yeah, whenI I remember seeing my mom do
everything you just described.
Right, and yeah, because that'show you did and because food
was expensive in those days andinflation was at 15 percent,
right, a lot of people werelooking for work and so it times
were tough and you would havebeen quebec.

(11:56):
So I mean like honestly, itwould have been a tough time in
the 70s in quebec, actually yeahmy, my, my family, my family
wasn't rich, and so we, just, wewent to the grocery store and
if they and if there wasn't rich, and so we, just we went to the
grocery store and if therewasn't a red tag on a food
product, meaning that it was onspecial, we didn't buy it.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know what?
It's a sign Like I mean, myfather-in-law, who has passed
away now and he was was olderthan you were, but you can see
that linger, right, he would goto, like the maxi and stuff,
like he would go to all thedifferent places looking for the
deals and things like that.
So it's ingrained in himbecause he lived through, you

(12:35):
know, the uh, the 60s and 70s ofquebec and this was back when,
you know, when they had thequiet revolution.
You know, when they had thequiet revolution, yeah, and
things changed a lot in quebec,right, yeah, it was.
Uh, to speak french at yourplace of work was like no go.
Yeah, right, like people don'trealize, like we're built
one-on-one and all that camefrom right, it's well the.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
The book I wrote about putin yeah, is goes back
in during the duplessis years oh, yes, and I actually argue in
the book that putin was kind ofcreated because of this division
between the Anglophones and theFrancophones in rural Quebec.
Oh yeah, no, the Anglos went toa restaurant where they spoke
English and the French went tothe well the shack.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
The fry shack.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
That's how it was and that's where poutine was
actually invented.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Get the poutine.
Get the gavode I love gavode.
It's, and that's where poutinewas actually invented.
Get the poutine, get thegalvode I love galvode.
Yeah, galvode, that's right,it's great, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
So, yeah, and I think I feel for millennials, I feel
for Gen Zs, because they'regoing through pretty much what
you know the well, not theboomers, but Xers, like I am in
the 80s and 70s and 80s, andit's not easy, but, uh, they'll,

(13:49):
they'll, they'll, they'll comeout of it and they'll be fine
and they'll do well, they'll dobetter.
So I'm not so.
A lot of people were, I feltlike a couple of years ago,
people were panicking and I wentyou know, if you just make some
adjustments and and what youdid with turkey is an adjustment
no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Mike, who will be listening to this?
I've been telling him for ayear because he's he keeps
saying like, oh you know, mywaistline's going up, and I keep
saying, actually, mine has beenactually going the other way.
I've been losing a little bitof weight in 2024 and all that
stuff, and you're hosting theafternoon and we're hosting and
we're drinking right, and sohe's blaming it on the beer.
I I need your recipe.
I need your secret, you knowwhat I keep telling it to Mike

(14:47):
Cut out the snacks.
Snacks I don't mean like a bagof carrots or something like
that, but snacks are expensiveand they're just kind of like
empty calories.
I'm not saying they're badfoods.
It's fine to have them once ina while.
I get a bag of chips here andthere.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
But if I a bag of chips here and there and say,
but if I get a bag of chips, I'meating a bag of chips, yeah, so
I just don't buy it.
Right, good strategy, right itjust it is what it is, because
the snacking industry if I wantto is going to uh, readjust to,
uh, I would say, a new era.
I'm not sure people appreciatehow big glp-1 drugs are right
now.
They're huge.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Ozempic.
You had something recentlyabout Ozempic.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
You know, last year in 2024, we actually released a
study on GLP-1s and I wanted torealize that there's probably
going to be anywhere between 2to 3 million Canadians on GLP-1s
by the end of 2025.
This year, wow.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's a lot of people and that's supposed to be
like a diabetic drug, right?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, it was designed for diabetics, basically type 2
.
Yeah, but they realized you canactually lose weight.
Type two, yeah, uh, but theyrealize you can actually lose
weight.
So we actually realized thatabout 30 on glp1s are actually
on glp1s to lose weight.
Yes, one of them is my, one ofmy students, actually graduate

(16:16):
students and I thought, wow.
So we released a study and wegot two phone calls from two
major cpg companies.
I won't tell you which one, Iwill tell you which one.
That's fine, yeah, but uh,these are companies you know,
and everyone knows yeah, andthey wanted a private session
with us.

(16:36):
Oh, what did you find out aboutglp ones?
These companies are nervousbecause snacking is a big deal
for them.
Impulse buying impulse eatingis a big deal for them, and so,
if you remember, in the fall of2024, nestle released

(16:57):
Ozambic-friendly food.
Oh, no way.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
I didn't know this.
See, ozambic honestly, itwasn't even on my radar until
maybe like six months ago.
And it, you know, startedpeople.
It might've been somewhere inthe back of my brain, cause you
see the commercials or somethinglike that, but that was kind of
like uh, I started peoplestarted saying like well, I'm on
Ozempic.
And like my wife was like, oh,everyone's onto Ozempic and I'm
like what the hell is ozempic?

(17:21):
And then I started doing somereading into it and I was like,
oh, okay, like it's a diabeticdrug, that the idea is,
hopefully the type 2 losesweight and therefore can maybe
get off medication, blah, blah,blah.
But then everyone else was likelike what every fat is like
when people go on keto oranything like atkins and things
like that, it's like I'm gonnatry it.
It's not for me, but it worksfor that person, so I to try it.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's not for me, but it works for that person, so
I'll try it too.
Kind of thing, right?
Yeah, absolutely so yeah, Imust say I'm really intrigued by
this phenomena because it'sgoing to change.
You see, when you talk to I'lljust name a few companies
Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Nestle,Mondelez when you talk to them
and I talk to them, they say, oh, Sylvain, we mandalese.

(18:07):
When you talk to them and Italk to them, they say, oh,
sylvanian, we provide healthyfood to people we have.
we provide healthy solutions tocanadians right and I'm going
okay, so why are you nervousabout glp-1s then?
Right because so they're seeingthe pharmaceuticals coming in
with solution that it's actuallyworking for a lot of people and
so if and if you talk tosomeone on glp ones, they'll
tell you salty can't do it.

(18:30):
Um, sugar can't eat it anymore.
I just don't crave it.
Alcohol no more than one beer.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
It's a problem really ill yes, so that's kind of, I
guess, how they kind of get so.
Does it so that me wonder, doesit actually help you lose
weight, or does it help you justfind those things that make you
gain weight Disgusting?

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, that's kind of well.
I'm not a medical doctor.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
No, I know, I know, that just makes me wonder, my
focus is on how this phenomenonwill impact the food industry.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, and clearly it is impacting the food industry.
So a month ago, cornellUniversity in the US yeah Okay.
Released a study showing thatdemand for food volume, not
sales in dollars volume is down6% in the US.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Because of GLP-1s?
No way, yes, six of GLP-1s.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
No way.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yes, 6%, that's a lot .

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, that is.
That's a huge amount.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
6% less food being bought because….

Speaker 1 (19:33):
That's billions of dollars, billions, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, so like 6% for us in Canada.
So retail food retail in Canadais worth about $160 billion.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
So 6% is probably about 160 billion dollars.
Yeah, so six percent isprobably about 10.
Yeah, nine, ten billion.
Nine, ten billion dollars offood by not not being bought
because people are on thesedrugs.
Wow, yeah so it's prettysignificant it's hard to see.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, I mean it's hard to say whether that's a
good thing or not if you'rerelying on these, because, I
mean, I don't know if it's agood thing or not I don't know
because a lot of people arearguing well, it's not natural
and and frankly, I've alwaysbelieved that lead a healthy
lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, that's the best thing.
Right and don't abuse like beer, for example exactly I have a
beer, you know, once in a whileit's great, great, exactly.
But I would say, with GLP-1sthere is some controversy.
There is some discussions aboutwhether or not this is a good
thing for society in general.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things that can
happen there when I think aboutit, right, I mean I don't get
too hung up on like what'snatural and what's not.
Everything's chemicals,everything is chemicals.
Right, that's the science ofthings, right?
So I don't too worried aboutthat, because there's lots of
man-made things that were greatand are perfectly fine and all

(20:56):
that stuff.
Like we talked before about howcorn, corn's GMO and it's
science, but everyone eats itand everyone's like there's no
such thing as organic corn.
Sorry, folks, that's right.
Right, so it's exactly so, it'slike things like that.
Like, I don't get too worriedabout that stuff.
What I worry a little bit aboutis that people rely on Ozempic
and, you know, all of a suddenit's like, well, I like to drink

(21:17):
Pepsi and uh, but if you'retelling me it makes them kind of
not crave it, that's a goodthing.
I don't know what Ozempic doeslong term to someone's body,
right, because we don't know, Iguess.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
You have to take it for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, this is the thing you have to keep doing, it
, right?

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And it's not cheap.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard, it's not cheap, it's not
cheap.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
It's about my understanding it's, uh, it can
cost you like in the thousandsper year.
So it's not, it's not foreveryone, and that rate just
right now, how it's designed,doesn't include so.
With the liberal ndp alliancethey wanted pharma care.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
It's not included yet right but I, I would argue we
have an election coming and sothey may not get what they want.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
No, but but any future governments, doesn't
matter who it is.
That's right.
I think there's.
There is a conversation thatwould need to be had here.
So are we?
Because I mean, I, I know ofthree or four people in my life.
Their quality of life hasvastly improved because of
GLP-1s, because they were older,65, 70.

(22:28):
They were obese, they couldn'tsleep well, they lost a ton of
weight.
Now, they sleep well, no sleepapnea, all that stuff.
They eat well, they walk.
They can actually go up thestairs without taking the
elevator.
There's lots of.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
so part of me saying I don't know, it doesn't feel
natural, but a part of me issaying, well, maybe it actually
can be helpful as well yeah, andI almost wonder if it can be
used as like a temporary thing,because I mean, I think the
hardest part when people aretrying to get healthy, I think
the hardest part is thebeginning, it's getting started.
It's like someone loses fivepounds.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Especially this time of year, especially this time of
year.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I mean we're going in like, like I said, this is
February, so this is beingreleased, so we have already had
the Super Bowl, that's right,and this is chicken wing season
and all this stuff.
Beer and chicken wing season.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
right, yeah, and so it is funny because, my, my, uh,
my son's girlfriend, she's amanager of a gym in halifax and,
uh, right now she's seeing aton of people.
Oh, that's this time of year,yeah, yeah, let's actually lose
a ton of weight, yeah, and she'sbeen manager for two years now.

(23:42):
Yeah, next month, half thepeople will disappear.
That's right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
But I think the thing is is I think what's hard is
that someone goes and they loselike five to seven pounds and
they're all energized and likeyes.
And then Super Bowl happens andthey eat chicken wings and have
beer and they gain that fivepounds back in, like one day,
and all of a sudden Five poundsin a day.
I don't know Matt.
Five pounds back in, like oneday and all of a sudden five
pounds in a day.
I don't know, matt, I don'tknow.
Maybe listen, if you eat enoughchicken wings, you're ambitious

(24:09):
, I can eat five pounds ofchicken wings, but it's like you
know.
You know what I mean though it'slike they have a bad weekend or
something like that, and theygain the weight back that they
of course whatever and all of asudden it's like what was I just
?
I lost seven pounds in a month,which is is a reasonable,
healthy amount of weight to losein a month, and then all of a
sudden it's like I took stepsback and now I feel like that

(24:31):
month was for nothing andinstead of picking themselves
back up again and going, theygive up.
They stop going to the gym.
They think I'm never going toget anywhere, kind of thing,
right, and I'm wondering ifthings, things like ozempic,
could help people likeespecially for nova scotia.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
I mean nova scotia.
Yeah, nova scotia is a uniqueprovince in that, while it has
the highest food insecurity rate, it has probably, I think, the
highest obesity rate as well.
I have a theory about that.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
What is it?
It's because a lot of peoplepoint to America about being,
like you know, the fattestcountry in the world, but you
know what the fast country inthe world is.
You might know it Cause you arethe guy who's in this industry.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, I'm not a nutritionist.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
No, I know, but like you're about beer, but the
fattest country in the worldlast I checked was Scotland,
probably.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, the weather, the weather, what we eat.
The.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
East Coast diet is a lot of fish and chips and deep
fried blah blah blah.
And the weather and deep friedblah blah, blah and like what.
And and the weather and uh,honestly, like we're a more mild
uh province compared to therest of canada, so we don't
really have like winter sports.
It's rains through pretty muchlike we're mad hockey was

(25:58):
invented in nova scotia yeah,global warming's a thing.
Though I can't, I can keep aring.
It was invented in Windsor, Iknow, I know.
But you know what we can't?
I can't.
Sidney Crosby?
Yeah, he did it inside right,and ice times are hard to come
by these days.
It's not like in Quebec.

(26:18):
Still, you would have grown upwith every neighborhood had a
hockey rink.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
And when I go back there to Quebec now, and I go up
there, every neighborhood has ahockey rink.
It's still minus 20, minus 30,minus 40 sometimes the weather I
mean.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I have to say I love Nova Scotia.
It's mild, eh, I love, butwinters suck, they do.
What do you do here, likethere's no we?
We came back from the cottage.
In in the laurentians there'ssnow.
Yep, I mean, you're on myfacebook page, you must have
seen.
I mean it's beautiful, you cando a lot of stuff absolutely

(26:53):
with ice, snowshoeing and allthis other stuff.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Here you can't do anything.
So I mean, we, you know, we sitaround and we're just kind of
like, wow, it's kind of rainyand gray.
It's like at least if it wassnowing out you could do
something in the snow I have asolution.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
All right, what's your solution?
We need to pay more carbontaxes oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Okay, that is a great segue, because I wanted to talk
about it was on your list it's100 on my list.
So carbon tax, let's just goright into it.
The topic of 2024, probably2025.
Oh yeah, it's going to be anelection Axe the tax, axe the
tax.
It's going to be a thing.
So carbon tax, yeah.
What does it actually do to theprices of food?

Speaker 2 (27:36):
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I am so happy you said that, because you know what
I don't like carbon tax.
I'll be completely honest withyou I don't love the fact that
I'm probably paying 23 centsmore.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Well, intuitively, why don't you like the carbon
tax?

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Okay, so I don't like it, because, don't you feel?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
better about the environment when you pay a
carbon tax?

Speaker 1 (27:54):
No, so and I like listen, I agree.
Like I already made the globalwarming joke, I I know like
global warming is a thing I'mnot a denier of that.
I think we should do thingslike that I think, I think we do
need to invest.
My thing is um, you know we payabout I think it's nova scotia.
It's about 24 cents extra perliter is what the carbon tax is

(28:17):
per gas and all that stuff.
So I know that that must impacteverything shipping and
everything.
The prices are inflated.
It has to be because they factorprices into shipping, food and
all those things.
It also directly impacts mebecause I've got to fill up my
car and I'd love for it to be 24cents less.
That's what I don't like aboutit.
But the reason that I don'tlike about it is that I don't

(28:42):
really trust that the money isbeing directly used to make
things better.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I believe we should be In that government black box.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, I believe we should be investing in renewable
energy.
I think we have the tides Likewe have the most powerful tides
Lots of energy there.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
We could probably have no tides.
We have the most powerful tides.
Lots of energy there.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
We could probably have no power bill.
I very rarely will look toSaudi Arabia and think let's
model ourselves after that,because they don't, but the
thing that I will say is thatthey harvest their natural
resources and their citizensdon't pay any taxes because
they're so wealthy citizensdon't pay any taxes because
they're so wealthy.
Yeah, if we had this unlimitedenergy that we're getting from

(29:26):
the.
You know and I understandamerica has to make money and
all that stuff.
But I say like let's just buyit back and take it over, right,
that's right, if we had controlover our energy.
We use the tides which couldprobably power this whole
province tenfold, and just notcharge anyone electricity
because we or maybe a smallamount to like for maintenance

(29:47):
costs and things like that orwhatever it may be, or it's just
taken out of our taxes.
Don't charge anyone any actual.
To me, that would be, um,obviously lowering.
Like you know, I wouldn't haveto pay the 350 a month that I
pay in electricity.
That would be great.
Um, and on top of that, we'renow not using coal that we use

(30:08):
now we, I believe in all of that100, I believe in all that.
I just don't trust that whenthey're taking carbon tax and
I've read some of the scienceand I'm I'm listen I'm not fully
like I'm not I don't understandit fully about, because a lot
of people say carbon tax worksin a lot of places and it's the
best method, but it's not thebest method when you don't trust

(30:28):
it's being used properly.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
So I'm just going to talk about the agri-food sector
which is the sector.
I know very well and I'vetestified in Parliament twice
about this and once at Senate.
Yeah and so to claim beyondreasonable doubt that the carbon

(30:51):
tax is impacting food prices isflawed.
You can't do it.
You go to a grocery store.
Prices are impacted by a lot ofdifferent things that's.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
That's 100.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I agree if it's sunny out and you go into a grocery
store, you'll buy differentthings than when it's raining or
it's snowing.
Yes, it affects your behavior,that's true, and that will
impact prices.
Yeah, you got loss leading, youknow you got promotions.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
So every economist out there trying to correlate
the carbon tax policy with orcarbon markets- or carbon
pricing with retail pricespresents a flawed methodology,
so that's why our work hasalways been on competitiveness
In your expert opinion, though,would you say that it probably

(31:42):
has more of an impact on foodprices in the wintertime than it
does in the summertime, though.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Overtime, overtime.
So what we've noticed in ourresearch is that the carbon tax
is impacting the sector'scompetitiveness.
So in the US we can actuallyeasily compare with the US,
because they don't have afederal carbon tax.
Right, exactly so when youcompare both.
In Canada, since 2019, when thecarbon tax federal carbon tax

(32:12):
was launched, our wholesale foodprices not retail wholesale
prices have gone up 40% morethan in the US.
Sale prices have gone up 40%more than in the US.
So if you're a sole base orLoblaw or Metro, and you're
looking at prices in Canada thatare more expensive, you're
going to go to the US.

(32:32):
You're going to go elsewherebecause prices are cheaper.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
You know it can increase your margins, right?
Yeah, so, and in our research,we actually did notice that one
of the factors that madewholesale food prices less
competitive is the carbon tax.
So I've always believed thatthe argument whether it's the
conservatives with the axeattacks or the liberals saying

(32:58):
absolutely not the carbon tax isnot impacting food prices at
all.
The truth is somewhere inbetween.
Fair, okay, and if you affectthe competitiveness of the
agri-food sector, you willeventually impact food
affordability and food securityin canada and and and.
So your point about in thewinter it's exactly that.

(33:21):
So if you actually impact thecapacity of an industry to
produce in the winter, wellobviously they're going to go
south or it's going to go west.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Well, I mean, we can't grow it here Exactly?
It's not like we can just go tothe valley and get strawberries
.
We now have to go to, like youknow, Florida, and this is the
one thing that the liberals havenever understood.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Because we have to heat barns here.
We have to actually produceheat in the winter to remain as
competitive as our counterparts.
If we're going to havegreenhouses and things like that
to grow like four seasons.
If food sovereignty is a veryimportant issue for you, you
shouldn't look at the carbon taxas the perfect solution.

(34:02):
I've always believed, and thisis my, this is my.
I'm like you, matt, I actually,I actually think that the
climate change, climate changeis a big issue for the agri-food
sector, for us to deal with,yep, and I think that most
canadians want us to dosomething about it.
I agree, okay.
So instead of using the stickapproach, the carbon tax.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I've always believed that we should actually use the
carrot approach, which to me iscap and trade.
And you know what?
Nova Scotia had a great system,I know, and unfortunately we
had to like we were kind offorced, and Ontario did the same
.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
But you know who actually has cap and trade
Quebec?

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Oh okay, still today, still today.
With California and if you goto the agri Quebec, like they
kind of like I wonder if itreally works for them because of
the hydro, though, because,like Quebec really focuses on,
they have the cheapestelectricity rates in the country
.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
They do they do, but at the same time it doesn't
really.
It gives organizations andcompanies options.
If you want to believe, if youwant to hummer, yeah, fine, pay
right.
But if you are, if you'reinvesting in green technologies,
if you want to reduce yourcarbon footprint as an
organization, you get creditsright and you take those credits

(35:16):
, you sell it to the market andyou can make money.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Right, the environment for the people who
want to right now the liberalsapproach is about penalizing.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yes, you pay a tax.
You pollute, you pay a tax.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I'm of the mind that, yes, if you pollute you should
pay.
Yeah, but if you actually dowell and pollute less, you
should get credits.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I like that and we had that for a long time, up
until about three years ago, andthen it was kind of the feds
kind of forced us.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I think it was a mistake.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
yeah, the feds forced us to take on In 2019?
.
Yeah, to take on a new,different approach, which was
unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Now again, I'm only looking at agri-food.
And I do believe that thecap-and-trade model is the best
one for the agri-food sector,because you're giving farmers,
you're giving processors, you'regiving everyone an option to
manage, mitigate risks andmanage their finances based on
their environmental stewardship.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Right, that's it, and then also to the flip side of
this too, because we're talkingabout, like you know, I don't
want to sound like we're the axe, the tax guys, but the more of
like, I guess, change.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Well, the axe, the tax campaign, comes from a place
, and this is as an academic.
I'm appalled.
Appalled by how the liberalshave actually financed and
bought academia.
You don't know that and mostpeople don't know this, but when
you look at the smartprosperity institute, when you

(36:45):
look at the cane climateinstitute, all these issues are
funded by environment.
climate change, canada right andthey have a bunch of academics
producing papers to tellcanadians you know what?
Don't worry.
The context is the best model.
But research is not like thatresearch.

(37:05):
You look, you're supposed to belooking at different options.
You're supposed to have debates.
There's no debates.
No, there's no debates.
And so when you when?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
that's what Pierre Poilievre is doing yeah with
this axe, the tax campaign he'sactually catering to a base, oh
and I think it's a large base atthis point, specifically axe
the tax.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
To a cane population that has been ill-informed.
We've never really had a good,solid debate about what can we
do with the environment?
How can we actually green oureconomy?
The best we can withoutpenalizing or compromising our
food security.
No one, we really didn't havethat debate yet, so it was

(37:51):
shoved into our throats thecarbon tax, and we were told
time and time again this is thecheapest way to actually green
our economy, right?
I think, there are other ways todo that.
There are other ways to greenour economy.
Right, I think there are otherways to do that.
There are other ways to greenour economy without penalizing
our farmers and distributors.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
One thing I know is like that I will be like kind of
you know anyone listening andbe weary about is just because
attacks or the you know the, theaxe attacks if it gets axed, I
I think people.
Obviously, if that happens, theimmediate thing that we'll see

(38:27):
is the pumps will go down.
We will see 24 cents drop offthe pumps and everyone will
probably initially be very happywith that.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Do you think that prices will drop?

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Well, okay, I'm leading to that.
So this is the thing.
I don't trust it no, I don'ttrust it I don't trust it.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
I don't.
The conservatives are saying topeople prices will drop if they
ask the tax.
It won't happen.
No, you know, that's howmarkets work.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
This is the thing.
So it's like.
This is what frustrates me alittle bit.
I agree with you and I even andyou could have sat here and
told me and said, yeah, you, youknow what, matt, if we ax the
tax, everyone's going to save10% off of their groceries.
If you told me that as a matterof fact, if you told me as a
matter of fact, you know what'sgoing to happen, I'm going to go
oh, that's great.

(39:14):
And then what's going to happenis, I think, because I don't
trust Loblaws and I don't trustSobeys and I don't trust anyone
major, I think they're all goingto go, they won't drop prices.
They won't drop prices.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
They're going to go.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Everyone's been used to paying this much for
groceries.
We're just going to keep.
We're just going to move our,we're going to make more money
in the oil companies and thetaxes and all this stuff won't
make it.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
We'll make it, so, so by the time this episode airs,
holiday, that's right.
So yeah, so 14 in nova scotia,I can bet you yes.
So that that's a dollar, that alot of a lot of retailers, a
lot of restaurants, actually,you know, wiggled, played around

(39:53):
with prices because taxes arelike the tide, right yeah when
you look at a dock, you'll knowwhat the high tide is, where the
tide tide is right, there's amark.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
It leaves a mark.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's what taxes do.
It leaves a mental mark.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
We still have taxes from World War II.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
So right now I can tell you a lot of restaurants, a
lot of retailers arereadjusting prices.
By the time we get to February15th, the GST will be slapped
back, or GHSD for us in NovaScotia will be slapped back on
higher prices.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
And so that's why it's called opportunistic
pricing.
Right Now I will say shout outto breweries, because man beer
was cheap this holiday season.
It was Holy smokes.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I couldn't believe it , because there's competition.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
There's competition, but the beer is heavily taxed,
and so Tim Houston, the PCgovernment here, also decided to
have a tax holiday as well, onsimilar things that the feds did
.
So the prices were the same andI remember I had to buy a bunch
of beer for like, for presentsand things like that, but also
for me and everything, and I'msitting there going like and I'm
looking at the price.
I'm like all these beers arelike five bucks each or whatever

(41:12):
.
yeah, and I was like I'm addingup my head and thinking like
this is how much it's going tobe.
And then I get up and it was.
I'm not kidding, it was likehalf.
It was 40% less than I thoughtit was going to be when I was
adding the prices in my head.
Wow, it was something like that.
It was crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
It's because beer is mostly taxed.
It's, you know, sin tax right,exactly, yeah, so it's a lot of
that.
And I'm telling you I wentthere because I mean we were
here at Great Roads and I boughta few others and I'm telling
you I spent $50 on beer and Ibought beer for three people.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
And I spent $50 on beer, which that would have been
honestly probably close to $100.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, normally.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
And I was like, oh okay, you know what Kind of like
that I was, like I could getused to that.
So I'll be sad when thisholiday is over.
Yeah, I could get used to that.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
So I'll be sad when this holiday is over?
Yeah, absolutely.
But the point I'm trying tomake here is that you can't
really assume that if you end atax impacting the entire supply
chain, it will actually have animpact on retail prices
eventually.
The GST holiday of courseaffects retail, Right, but you
saw, there were a few memos.

(42:22):
You probably missed it.
But PepsiCo and other companieshave said you know what, Our
systems won't accommodate it.
So right now you're dealingwith grocers that are still
paying a GST to their suppliersbecause they said F-U to Ottawa.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
They're so big.
Because they're so big.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
The law was.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
It's kind of like the Facebook thing, right?
Trudeau was like, hey, you'vegot to pay these independent
journalists for writing articles.
And Facebook was like, yeah,our GDP is the same as you.
The law was adopted by a Senatetwo days before the holidays.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
So a lot of companies said you know what, we're still
going to charge you.
I'm sorry, but we're stillgoing to charge you and so right
now, sobeys and Loblaws andMitchell are playing nice and
they're just not charging us,but they're still paying up the
food chain.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
No one feels bad for them.
No one feels bad for them.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Especially in light of what happened with the meat
scale.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Okay, did you see that?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I actually saw this today.
You had the thing, so we weretalking and this is the bunch of
stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
I had in there.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'm pissed off so before we go on to that, though,
the only thing I want to sayabout the tax holiday, the only
thing that I think was a bit ofa misconception and I think you
actually on beer and things likethat, and I went and bought
gifts and stuff like that, buton food again, unless you're
buying snacks or things that youprobably could just pass on,

(43:50):
the tax holiday didn't help you,because you're not taxed on
tomatoes and meat and thingslike that, so there was no
actual relief there.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, we actually calculated that the average
Canadian will save about $4.51over two months.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
For groceries At retail yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Now restaurants and beer.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
that's different, totally different.
I noticed a significantdifference there.
I did notice it there.
That was nice, yeah.
But when it first kind of gotlaid out it's like yes, it will
help at Christmas time, it won'thelp because it started to a
degree will help at christmastime.
It won't help because itstarted to a degree.
It'll help men like me who shoplate.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
but anyone who's you know better than I am, they've
already bought their stuff,right and seriously like yeah, a
tax rebate on video consolesright, yeah, no exactly but but
when you buy I, I don't know uhrunning shoes to run to fit, you
have to pay a tax.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I bought skis for my daughter for Christmas, I had to
pay a tax on it, I know.
But if I buy a Christmas treeor a video console, I don't pay
taxes on it.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, it was short-sighted.
Yeah, it was certainlyshort-sighted.
It was political.
It was political.
Short-sighted is what it isright.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
But if you want, people to lose weight and be fit
during the holidays.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
But I don't think that's what this was about,
though no, it wasn't.
I think it was specificallydesigned to hit the Christmas,
new Year's and Valentine's DayIn.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
December, I testified with David Dodge, the former
governor of the Bank of Canada,at Senate in Ottawa about the
GST holiday.
Both of us, we were against it.
We knew this was bad fiscalpolicy.
It was just a bad idea.
And I was of the mind you knowwhat, if you want to play around
with the GST, get rid of it.

(45:33):
Don't put taxes on food.
I am absolutely against taxingfood, even snacks.
No, I know, I agree with you,it's stupid.
I agree with you.
Let consumers decide.
Yep, and taxing food is immoral.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
I agree with you Immoral.
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
You mentioned snacks, but what about the ready-to-eat
section of the grocery store?
A lot of seniors, they don'twant to cook.
That's right, they can't cook.
No, I know.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
They want to cook.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
They don't have time to cook.
They can't cook, no, they can'tcut, they can't prepare food at
home.
So they go to that ready to eat.
Section of the grocery storeand they're taxed for caesar
salad.
Right exactly, does it?

Speaker 1 (46:10):
make sense.
No, no, no, you know what Iactually.
I agree with you on that.
You go there and you buy acaesar salad and you are taxed
on it, or even still, like youwalk around like tuna salad.
You know what?
Today I was walking around, waswalking around, I was at work
and I went over for lunch and Iwas like you know, I'm going to
go over and just grab somethingat the grocery store.
And so I walked over to it wasa superstore, loblaws, and I was
walking around and I waslooking at some stuff and it's

(46:32):
like some of the things thatthey have that you have to
basically like just throw in anoven.
Yeah, it's not bad.
Some of them are like $20, andit's yeah, there's like whatever
.
It could be like a lasagna orsomething, or a whole whatever.
Exactly, it's fine.
It's perfectly fine andrealistically, you could
probably feed a family for thatfor $20, right?

(46:53):
Because I was looking at theportion size a family of four,
if you divide it by four,equally, you could probably feed
that.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Those are probably.
You could probably feed that.
Those are fine, but they'retaxed.
Yeah, right, right now incanada, canadians pay about 1.2
billion dollars in taxes.
Yeah, on healthy foods at thegrocery store.
The other issue and this isgoing to piss you off
shrinkflation.
Yes, so some products, oh yeah,when they get shrink flated,
they become taxable because theybecome snacks.
According to the cra, no waycra yeah.

(47:25):
Four muffins not taxable, twomuffins, the same muffins,
that's taxable no freaking way,six granola bars in a box.
Yeah, not taxable.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Five, that's taxable, oh my and you know what I've
actually noticed that there isfive granola bars in a box.
Now it's not six, which drivesme nuts because it's not an even
number 14% and people don'tlook at their receipts.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Wow, it's disgusting.
We shouldn't tax food.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
No, I agree, we shouldn't tax food, yeah, Okay,
so let's move on, because youkind of alluded to like the
whole.
So this is the 10th anniversaryof the bread collusion that was
happening amongst the and youwrote about that.
I think that was might even achemo today.
I think that you wrote about itand you talked about.
Now there's like a meatcollusion or like a

(48:16):
misrepresentation or somethinglike that we talked about.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
if you want to boycott, loblaw any grocers,
yeah, that's a reason, that's agood reason.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
So okay, explain to the people listening like
because I couldn't believe this.
When I read the article fromyou today I was just kind of
like because you encouragepeople to actually go out and
buy a scale.
In your article you said go buy$15, buy a scale Amazon.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, we have one at home and so, yeah, absolutely,
this is disgusting.
And so Loblaw got in touch withme earlier this week and
explained no, they made amistake with scales.
They you know, because thepackaging changed and they

(49:06):
didn't actually program scalesbased on the new packaging.
So basically, people werebuying meat but they were paying
for the weight in relation tothe packaging as well, for a
while we don't know exactly howlong, but it lasted a while, and
not in just one store, over 80stores.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Oh, and that's at loblaws, at walmart, at soul
bays and you also talked aboutfat content too in your article
yes, because I mean that'sbecause I'm trying to, you know,
stir some, stir the pot alittle bit that's my job.
So because I want, because thesethings piss me off when I know
that consumers are being robbedtalk about shrink flation that's

(49:38):
right, because people will beno butflation in meat, because
if they pack a lot of fat in it,the fat just goes away and
everyone strains it.
So I mean it just goes away,right?
So you're getting smaller.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
So sometimes you'll actually buy extra lean and you
pay extra for it, right but it'snot extra lean, right?
Exactly, yeah, so the fatcontent should be no more than
11% according to the law, butsometimes it's more than that.
But who's going to check?
Who's going to?
Are you going to go home andmeasure how much fat there is?
I don't even think you canmeasure that, and you don't have

(50:11):
A lot of people don't havescale, but that's why I said if
by scale tests and if it'sbeyond 1% plus 1.5% more or less
yeah report it to measurementcanada or the cfia.
Yeah, they can, actually thereis there is a thing called
measurement canada.

(50:32):
Under industries canada it'sthe minister champagne's
ministry.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
So if you actually oh so, okay, so that's the guy who
actually we just found outtoday that he's actually
withdrawing from the liberalleadership race that he was
going to do For now, for thisone, for this one, yes, yeah,
exactly.
Doesn't want to be thesacrificial lamb.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I don't understand.
I mean, mark Carney is a smartman, but I mean, listen, he's
going to get clobbered.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Well, I mean, there's Carney, there's the guy from
Ontario, which I think that's a.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Chandra yes, who I met.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
You know what Huge mistake he made?
A comment, this is January.
So this is probably about theFrench.
Talk about short-sighted.
Talk about like oh my ChristyClark, I saw today she was.
She pulled herself.
She yeah.
And you know what?
I loved her comment.
She said my french is not at alevel where I would feel

(51:30):
comfortable being able tocommunicate to the francophone
canadians in order to run andrepresent them.
Talk about stand-up, like sheunderstands canada.
This guy who's like I don'tthink they'll care.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Just a bit of a story with him, chandra, I can't
remember his last name Arden.
I think his name is.
So I was testifying in Ottawawith a colleague from down,
samantha Taylor, so he's on thefinance committee.
I was testifying with her.

(52:04):
He came after my colleagueSamantha Taylor like very
aggressively to a point that Ihad to intervene.
Okay, I had a feeling that notonly he didn't like French, but
I think he had an issue withwomen.
Oh, okay, I'm just throwing itout there, but he was really

(52:24):
inappropriately aggressive withher.
Like I remember it was in themorning we were testifying for
two hours about credit cards,the use of credit cards, buying
food.
A lot of people buy food oncredit.
She's an accountant and he wasdisputing some of the stuff that
she was saying, but she wasmore about.
She was more like presentingideas to the committee.

(52:45):
So so mps can think about itand he was inappropriately
attacking her and I I never.
I hope he doesn't win like Ihope he doesn't win.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
I don't think he has a shot.
I mean like realistically, thatyou're gonna have some like
mark kearney's a bit of ajuggernaut in in terms of name
and all that.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Jamie Batiste from Nova Scotia is actually in Jamie
.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Batiste is running, so if he wins he would actually
be the first indigenous.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
He doesn't have the money yet.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
No, he doesn't.
That's a tall order.
But if he won he would be thefirst leader.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
I'm surprised by how little media attention he got
when he actually announced.
Yeah, I know, Like nationallythere was just zero attention.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
It was only Nova Scotia that talked about him and
he's indigenous and he couldand he would be the first.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
He would be the first indigenous.
He's one win away to become ourfirst prime minister indigenous
.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Not just first prime minister.
He could be the first partyleader.
That's indigenous, that's rightFederally.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, federal party leader.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
So like there's a lot of that.
I yeah, exactly, so there's alot of that.
I mean Freeland's going to run,we know that's pretty confident
.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
I met her in Ottawa, so we know that that's pretty
confident.
Her track record as Minister ofFinance.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I know, I know and you know what we're supposed to
be talking about food, but Ilove politics so I get really
caught up in it.
Well, there's a lot of politicsin food, because that's why I'm
often in Ottawa, and I actuallyhave questions political about
that, actually in terms of food,because my thing is the biggest
thing.
If I'm putting my strategic haton, I am like I'm nonpartisan,

(54:11):
right.
I'm just honestly putting myhat on as a strategic political
person and I think Kearney andFreeland so close to Trudeau and
I'm not someone who hatedTrudeau I honestly like I didn't
like certain things, but Ididn't dislike the guy either,
right, I actually found itadmirable that he was stepping

(54:31):
aside, knowing that hispopularity was low.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
It was too late, though.
It might have been too late,because right now we're in a
position where… I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
It was too late, but at least he surprised me that he
did it at all.
But at least what he was doingwhen he stepped aside is he's
giving Canadians another optionthat many weren't going to
consider because he was there.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
So at the very least there's people like me who
probably so you don't feel weshould have actually had an
election.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
No, no, no.
You know what I don't actuallyWith Trump and everything.
I know that's a big thing, butyou know what?
Because right?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
now you know.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Daniel Kahneman was in Florida.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Doug Ford will be in Washington soon.
You can feel that premiersright now are panicking because
we have a leaderless Ottawa.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
And that's the thing I mean.
I understand and totally agreewith all that.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Who's the prime minister of Canada right now?
I would say it's Daniel Smith,the premier of Alberta.
She's the one.
Really she's the one, becauseshe's got a lot to lose.
We got Melanie.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Joliet.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
There's many people that say Dominic LeBlanc is one
of the most powerful men inCanada, though but he's actually
dealing with the liberal mayhem, because the biggest issue we
have to face right now is theUnited States of America.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
What is Dominic?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
LeBlanc doing right now.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
No, they're in the middle of a leadership debate.
No, listen, you raise great.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
So he went to florida , yeah, with the prime minister
yeah and we came back with this51st state.
Don't even rhetoric.
That really pisses a lot ofpeople off yes that's what
happened.
He's daniel smith, went toflorida and we got a
conversation going, a a realconversation, because it's about

(56:26):
energy.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Okay, and so that's why I give a lot of credit to
Daniel Smith for stepping up,and Doug Ford also in Ontario.
Yeah, yeah, and my guess.
I mean, if Tim Houston were thepremier of a larger province, I
suspect he would be doing thesame.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Listen, and I don't hide anything, I'm a big Tim
Houston fan.
I think he would make a greatprime minister.
I would hate to lose him as thepremier of Nova Scotia because
I think he is Nova Scotiansfirst and he puts Nova Scotia
first.
So I'm a big fan of his.
Yeah, that's a whole othertopic, but I mean he'd be a
great person.
But I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
If he was a part, we need a rob another, robert
stanfield he could be the robert.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
He honestly could be the robert stanfield.
I think he's got charisma, hedoes, and you know what?

Speaker 2 (57:14):
he's just level-headed.
I don't know.
Does he speak french?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I don't know, he might not, so I mean that might
be the hard thing for him, rightI?
Don't know if he does, I uh Iwouldn't be surprised if he does
it wouldn't surprise me either,because a lot of his cabinet is
actually bilingual.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
So yeah, so the whole thing with politics is like
anyway, I was saying to you aswell, it's like Carney and
Freeland might be too close toTrudeau and we know that.
You know, polyev is probablygoing to say same person,
different face.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
He's already started to say it right, but in your
opinion, what can politicsreally do in a free market of
food?
What do you think that they cando?
Is there anything they can doto actually bring prices down?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I've always argued that the role of government is
to enable conditions to increasecompetition.
Yes, so make Canada attractive.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
And I would say that right now, over the last nine
years, I'm afraid to say it'sbeen the opposite.
Okay, we have a new tenant inthe white house, uh, and that
new tenant is making theamerican economy more
competitive, less bureaucratic.
Okay, energy costs are goingdown all the stuff we're not

(58:27):
seeing in Canada right now, yeah, okay.
So, if you want to make theagri-food sector more
competitive in Canada, reduceenergy costs as much as possible
, okay.
Make sure bureaucracy getseliminated, eliminate
inter-provincial barriers.
Okay, we just saw Albertaaccepting wine from BC.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Thank goodness Joining.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan.
Finally, we're still waitingfor Ontario and Quebec, but
anyways.
So there are so many barriersmaking Canada a hard place to do
business in.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Alcohol particularly too.
Alcohol particularly, yes, andback to that holiday beer got
the pass, but our last.
We had an episode in Januarywhen we talked to JD Shore and
their distillers and theyweren't too happy that they got
kind of snubbed during what theyfeel is their season.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah, and winemakers we have such great winemakers
and they can get included inthis kind of thing yeah, the,
the, the winemaking industry,the wine industry in nova scotia
, uh, should prosper even more.
Yeah, uh, if, if, you eliminatethese barriers.
So those are some of the things.
And and, like I said, taxingfood is just a bad idea, yeah,

(59:42):
and so there's lots of thingsthat governments can do to
actually make food moreaffordable, more competitive,
giving more choice, becauseright now, the irony is that
we're not seeing any newcompetitors coming into the
market in canada, while canadiangrocers are going to the us.
Okay, so loblaw just opened uptwo stores in the us this year

(01:00:03):
and we're not seeing any newplayers in canada that's a sign.
Okay, that's a sign meaning incanada we're not open for
business, we're penalizingbusiness and I guess I kind of
go back to it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Like you know, if politicians make these changes
and everything like, can weactually trust grocers to make
changes in the food, like forprices to go down, or are they
just going to be like you knowwell, they're used to it, right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I?
I don't think I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Trusting grocers is an oxymoron I mean, I think you
could trust the local.
It's not?
It's not so they'll.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
They'll focus on their consumer trust thing, yeah
, as a business, yeah, but.
But at the end of the day, it'sup to the government to decide
whether or not it wants to makeCanada a good place to invest.
I mean, I agree with you thereand, like I said, in the last
nine years I haven't seen any ofthat.

(01:00:57):
I mean, it's all about if youtalk to any groups farmer groups
, if you talk to any tradegroups, they'll tell you it's
been exhausting because you feelthat Ottawa is always after
business, attacking business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, that is a common.
Unfortunately, that is a commonthing, they're playing defense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
They've been playing defense for nine years.
They're exhausted.
All they want is some support,some acknowledgement, some
understanding.
But honestly, when you look atcabinet right now in Ottawa,
most people have never actuallyrun a business.
They don't understand businessat all and they don't want to.
The carbon tax.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Just one example.
You believe in the carbon tax?
Fine Measure its performance.
Stephen Guilbeault, theenvironment minister of canada,
acknowledged twice that hisdepartment is not even measuring
the impact of the carbon tax onthe environment.
Okay, okay, so we're askingpeople to pay billions of

(01:02:01):
dollars in taxes, but don't weeven know if it's actually
making a difference with climatechange and I think canes
actually would want to know that.
Yes, yeah you kind of knowyou're paying more at the pump,
yeah, and you'll feel okay, I'm,I'm paying more, but I'm doing
well for the environment I'mdoing something with the
environment are you fair enough?

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the thing, too is like
you know, because we mentioned acouple times, like we mentioned
some of the smaller grocerychains.
Like we mentioned Gateway I'm abig fan of, just because I'm
not on the Dartmouth side, I'mon the Halifax side, but I go to
Kingswood Market.
Oh yeah, like Kingswood Market,I don't think these are chicken
prices from 15 years ago.
Like anyone in chicken wingseason here, I bought 1.4 kilos

(01:02:50):
of chicken wings for $7.
That's insane.
Yeah, chicken breasts boneless,skinless chicken breasts I
bought.
It was like 1.5 kilos for $14.
That's amazing.
So I?
But how is it that?
Like no, I drove, I told youtoday I went to Superstore.
Yeah, is it that, like no, Idrove.
I told you today I went tosuperstore.
Yeah, I saw it was like justshy of six dollars a pound for

(01:03:11):
chicken breast.
Yeah, for the same thing that Ijust, and I got a kilo and a
half, so you know a lot more.
And this is almost six dollarsa pound, like 590 a pound.
It's like why can these?
At one point, buying power usedto mean that you could get
things for cheaper and thereforesell things for cheaper.
Why is it that these localfolks can sell chicken and beef

(01:03:35):
and all that stuff for waycheaper?

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
oh, well, so the, the gateways of the world.
Yeah, they actually managetheir supply chain very
differently.
They'll actually narrow down acouple of of suppliers, right,
and they'll just basicallynurture those relationships.
And they'll get phone calls andand they say, listen, I got, I

(01:04:00):
can't, I need to dump kilos ofthis.
Okay, that and that's they buy,that's how they offer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
But they're operating 365 days a year.
Yeah, so I mean like they, butthey have 1500 SKUs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
They don't have like 20,000.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
No, that's.
True, Fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
So it's easier.
And I mean, let's face it, whenyou walk into those stores
there's no lighting, smells theaesthetics.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I don't want that, though you don't want that.
I mean to a degree, you knowwhat, to a degree I say that you
know what?
When I go to Quebec, every timeI always have to go to an IGA,
because, man, I love IGAs,they're the best.
It's a labyrinth of smells andcolors, and it's different.
But you pay for that.

(01:04:48):
That's true.
Yeah, when I go to great way, Iyou know I walk in with my cart
and you fight with everybody,fight with everybody, and it's
great yeah that's.
That's the experience there anduh, but people are all there for
a reason to save money yeah,and the farm markets, like the
farmers markets, seem to bereally kind of helping out like
I'm fortunate enough, I live outin gate, or I live out in
prospect, and there's a placecalled mabel's farm market over

(01:05:09):
there and, uh, you know, I walkinto, I walk into no frills,
which is supposed to be thediscount right, and I walk in
there.
I walked in there a coupleweekends ago and I saw
cauliflower 488 for head ofcauliflower.
Every single time I walk intoMabel's, $2.99.
Not on sale, not a flyerspecial like it was for $4.88.

(01:05:30):
Every time I walk into thatplace, $2.99 for a head of
cauliflower.
I've gone there and I've boughta week's worth of groceries for
$26.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
I'm talking like we had salads three to four or four
to five days a week and you hadto eat healthy and you're
eating healthy.
And you spend 25 bucks.
So I go buy a turkey.
We'll say for 30 bucks or less,I guess $20 to $22.
And then I go buy $30.
It's like, are you telling me Ispent less than $60 and I'm
eating for a week?
Yes, the answer is yes, I'vedone it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
I have done it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
It?
Yes?
The answer is yes, I've done it.
I I have done.
It's possible.
It's possible now.
That's a privilege though.
I get to drive around, I get togo to the I'm a smart shopper
and I go to.
You know, I'm lucky that I havea farm market that's five
minutes from my house and I'mlucky that I can I have a car
that I can drive by and go tokingswood market on my way to
work, because it happens to be.
It's a privilege.
Like, yeah, the people who havethe least amount of money,

(01:06:28):
maybe not have a car, aren'tcommuting by places like this.
They have to go to the closestgrocery store to them, and
sometimes that closest grocerystore is Sobeys, and most of the
times that's more expensive.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
And that's kind of the unfortunate part when it
comes to that.
But you know, when I see thingslike chicken being two to three
times more, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
You were asking me what governments can do to
actually Property controls.
We need to end them.
There's plenty of them outthere and most people actually
don't see that.
See that, but when there's asobe's nearby, uh often they'll

(01:07:12):
actually there's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
There'll be some arrangements, not to have
another food retailer close by,you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
So they don't want competition, they don't want
competition, and and that's tome that that is wrong okay that
is wrong and there are a coupleof cases in alifax, to be honest
, in the HRM, and in smallertowns like in Bridgetown and
even Truro, I can tell you somegrocers have actually bought
land and they're not buildinganything because they don't want

(01:07:36):
the next guy, the other guy tobuild.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
That needs to end.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
So yeah, that's the thing.
There's this guise of like freemarket but like there's a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
That's not the federal government, it's
provincial and everything on theway down.
Yes, everyone.
If you have tim back on yourshow, ask him he'll come back.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
He told me actually, just you know what, like I said,
I'm a fan of tim, but actually,uh, you know, this is what.
You know what.
This is an example of whatmakes Tim a good premier, in my
opinion.
I mean, you can't do this toeverybody, but Tim called me on
my cell phone on the 23rd ofDecember to wish me and my
family a Merry Christmas.

(01:08:15):
Wow.
And I was like I didn't answerit because I was busy and was
working and all that stuff, andI didn't listen to the message
until I got home.
Home and I pick it up and allof a sudden I hear tim's voice
and I said to my wife is hold ona second?
I said this is the premier ofthe prophets.
I said I rewound it and saidlisten to this.

(01:08:36):
And he just yeah, I wish thishappy birth or happy and it's
not like a record recorded call.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
It was no, it was him saying, matt, I want to thank
you, he goes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
I'd love to come back on the podcast in 2025.
You know wishing you and yourmerry christ.
You know your family merrychristmas and you know thanks
for all you do in the community.
That's great lights out, likelike the dude.
I've heard other stories likethe guy goes out and campaigns
or whatever, like knocks ondoors alone.
Right, that's what makes himgreat, right.
And so I mean you know peoplecan with me saying that people

(01:09:08):
can paint me with a certainbrush, but the fact is that I
just like the guy, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
He could leave Tim Altman, he's in his cabinet.
Yeah, he lives close by towhere I live.
Yeah, he was at my house twiceduring the campaign.
I said, tim, you're wastingyour time here, exactly, but he
wanted to bring some volunteersso they can meet me.
Right, and it was so cute, itwas so cute, it was great.

(01:09:35):
There's a lot of people likethat surrounding Tim and I think
it kind of makes him feel thatway and he's very
community-oriented.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
So much.
So I mean, I've heard a lot ofthings.
You know what he, if you knowand if people want to say, oh,
you know, that makes mad a teamblue, um, it doesn't.
The fact is is that tim couldleave tomorrow and I probably I
wouldn't paint myself in bluebrush.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Right, it's the guy, and that's what I've seen and
what I've seen the improvementson, and all that well, most nova
scotians, what I've learned thelast 10 years most of the
scotian will want to vote forsomeone they actually like.
Yeah, yeah, beyond the colors,I agree.
On the colors, I agree.
And so steven mcneil, uh, whoyou will be interviewing, became

(01:10:25):
premier of the Sprouts probablybecause he was liked yeah at
one point At one point, at onepoint, yeah, exactly.
And let's be honest, tim, atsome point you'll you know, of
course it happens, it'sinevitable His tenure will end,
but I do think that he won hiselection because people liked
him Exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
So before we go on, so what we've been doing lately
is 10 questions, so we're goingto get to that in a minute, okay
, but before we do that, youknow you've been doing a lot of
traveling since we last spokeand I saw that you recently
shared because we're Facebookfriends, so you've shared that
you were in Ennsbruck, that youshared that it was 10 years
since you've come back inInnsbruck that you shared, that
it was 10 years since you'vecome back.
Yeah, that's right.

(01:11:07):
Yeah, and you see, but you'vebeen doing a lot of traveling,
Like you know.
You've been in Texas, as wetalked about, and all this other
stuff, like lots of traveling.
Yeah, you know, I know you saidthat you had, like you,
insinuated that on yourInnsbruck post.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
That there's.
You know, something's going tobe happening.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
That's right.
You have an announcement thateveryone is, you know, and many
people were like come on, man,Don't sit.
You know, have us sitting herewaiting.
But we talked about it and yousaid you're okay to talking
about it a little bit, thatyou're going to be taking a
little bit of a leave.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Well, I mean, we take leaves asprofessors.
Well, let me ask you a question, matt.
If you're, if you were to beasked by an ivy lee school in
the us to manage the number oneagribusiness program in the
country and number three in theworld, would you say yes?

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
yeah I mean well, hold on, let's say this no,
because I don't know anythingabout that, but I would probably
fail miserably.
Um, but that being said, like,yeah, if someone came to me and
offered me something that, uh,you know could be very
interesting, that's somethingthat I knew about, or whatever.
Yeah, it's hard to turn turndown.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Yeah yeah, so it's, it's texas a&m, and uh, and, and
, frankly, uh, my family and Iwere not willing to move.
We were very happy in alifaxbut I'll be commuting, I'll be
helping out with their master'sdegrees in agribusiness which is
the number one program in thecountry, number three in the
world great football school.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Like you know, I'm really jealous.
You know, if, uh, if you wantto, like you know, maybe bring
me down for a football game,like you know, I'd be open to
that yeah, maybe we could do apodcast recording we could do a
podcast recording, yeah maybe Ishould invite you down and talk
to the aggies hey, that would beby the

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
way, just a little anecdote.
So when I was teaching downthere, you know in november, uh,
I was teaching a seminar andone of my one of the professors
said you know what, if you wantthe attention of students, just
say howdy, okay, howdy, just how, howdy, just howdy, howdy, all
right.
And so because students wereactually working in groups and I

(01:13:11):
wanted to get their attentionRight, so I said howdy and
everyone said howdy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
All right, then it's the code, because you were just
there, like, just like, whateverit was, a couple months ago.
At this point it would be acouple months ago.
Yeah, because I remember Iwrote to you and said like you
got to go to a football game andyou were like I just missed it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Because the stadium is huge.
That's true Texas is football.
I mean, like it would be Wellyou go into every restaurant
they have the schedule of theAggies.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Wow, because you do not want as an adult, you do not
want to be close to the stadiumon game day, I might I'd want
to go.
You know what tailgating is?
Yes, people tailgate two daysbefore.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
I love this Again, and beer, ribs, chicken wings,
beer, all the things two daysand they have.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
They have, uh, poor potties like everywhere.
It's just unbelievable, but andthe place is clean, it's really
okay.
Oh, the campus there is justimmaculate, immaculate, the.
The one campus that reminds me,I mean in Nova Scotia, I must
say San FX is probably in myview, in my opinion the

(01:14:30):
best-looking campus we have inthis province.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
I agree with you.
My wife and I so my wife alsofrom Quebec we went there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
So Texas A&M?
It looks like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Does it?

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Yep, oh wow, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Because my wife and I we went there early on.
My wife's been living here forwhatever.
Well, she's been coming herefor 15 years and living here for
like 11 or 12.
And when I first time I tookher to St of X, we were on our
way to first trip to Cape Brightand everything.
And we drove around St of X andshowed her around and she was
like you know what she's likeI've been, she's like I've done

(01:15:01):
tours of Harvard.
And she was she's like I'vedone tours of Harvard.
She's like this place stands up.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Right, st Evans is a beautiful, beautiful school, so
if you're telling me it lookslike it, that's an incredible
looking school.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
It's just a beautiful place and I was impressed.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
I was impressed.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Tuition for their corporate MBA is $250,000.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
US for two years?
No way.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
$100,000 a year, or 125, 125, yeah, wow.
So it's just a different, it'sjust a different level yeah,
university is a different levelthere.
Yeah, it is, yeah, so so I knowwhat people uh texas, uh guns,
and that's not what I saw, likeI really like people are.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
That's not everything that they are they're.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
They're incredibly polite, super nice, uh, I mean
it's just yeah, there is.
I fell at home for real, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
I mean all all that texas barbecue and all that
stuff, like we need a lot ofmeat.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
The, the, the food professor I think they made sure
I wasn't a vegetarian.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Yeah, yeah, probably.
Food professor is probablygoing to be gaining a few pounds
in Texas, a little A littlescoop for you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
My Poutine Nation book is going to be published in
English, coming out this fall,october 25th.
Okay, so this actually isperfect, because I that's great,
because I actually the firstquestion question, so we have 10
questions.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
We've been having fun doing 10 questions.
We tried this right with thepremiere and we've just been
having fun with it ever since,so we got 10 questions.
Uh, I tried to stick foodrelated for you.
Okay, so have some fun.
So first question is don't airputoutine.
Yes, just yes.
Yeah, yes, no, which one?
Which one do you prefer?

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
oh, we gotta pick one like a place.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
No, no donair or poutine like which oh, donair or
poutine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Yeah, I thought you were saying donair, poutine, no,
donair or poutine.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
You gotta pick one.
Oh it's, it's poutine sorryfolks some of these.
You know what the first threequestions are going to be prying
at your.
Quebec and East Coast grounds.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
I'm going to be torn, you are.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Yeah, okay, so you're picking poutine for questions.
So question two Ragu bouletteor the pâté chinois, or
shepherd's pie?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Ragu boulette yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
I'm with you on that one man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Pâté chinois is it?
Oh my God, no.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
I mean, I like it.
I like shepherd's pie, don'tget me wrong.
Oh, it's not bad on a Mondaynight.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Oh, ragout boulette, Ragout boulette's for Christmas
and special events.
Yeah that's true, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah, okay, question number three Tortillette or
rappy pie?

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Tortillette.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Yeah, du Lac Saint-Jean.
Oh, I know, if you go up to LacSaint-Jean it's different, it's
square.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
There's more vegetables in there, sweets.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that's right, and there's
actually did.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
You know that there's Tortilla Poutine now no.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Yes, I do know yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
You eat tortilla and there's actually, and it's
stuffed in there, yes, in, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
Okay, so the tortilla I heard this rumor.
I don't know if it's true, Ididn't fact check it or anything
, but it's a Quebec rumor.
That tortilla, when it wasfirst invented up in the
Saguenay region, is where itcame from, and I heard it
originally came from a mixtureof beef and a particular bird.
And and I heard it wasoriginally came from a mixture

(01:18:27):
of beef and a particular birdand that the Quebecois ate that
bird into extinction.
And I don't know if that istrue or not, but it's a funny
little myth.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Honestly, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know either, butit's a good story.
It's a great story, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Okay, so you know what?
And the funny thing is like Iagree pretty much all Donair and
poutine, like that's the hardone for me.
Yeah, because I love donair andfrom here and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
It's just the sauce that doesn't work for me.
It's sticky.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Yeah, fair enough, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Actually my first donair I ate in front of a class
?
No way, yeah.
So I was teaching one night atDow, yeah.
And I said, yeah, teaching onenight at dow, yeah.
And I said, yeah, I never atedonair.
And people were looking at meyou never ate a donair, no, so
you have to eat a donair yeah ofcourse I mean.
And once you have to eat adonair in front of us?

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
oh no, okay, yeah, so they forced you I ordered a
donair for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
No way.
The next, the next class yeah,I ordered on there for everyone
and I ate that donair in frontof people, but when I was done I
had to wash my hands.
It was just so sticky.
Yeah, it's part of it.
It's fun Not when you're sober.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
It is, that's true, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Question number four so what is one restaurant that
you have eaten at the most,excluding fast food?
So what's a restaurant that'slike your go-to Excluding fast
food?
So what's a restaurant that'slike your go-to NHRM, anywhere?
I mean?
I assume it's probably NHRM inthe last few years.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Actually I would say the Bicycle Thief is a favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
And.
Café Lunette is our secondfavorite, also a great spot,
yeah, great spot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Those are two really great ones.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
I mean we're blessed with some really good
restaurants in HRM.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Much better.
When we moved 10 years ago itwas great, yeah, but it's really
gotten better.
It has.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
I mean we also have Bar Kismet, which is ranked 14th
best in Canada.
If we had a Michelin star inCanada, that would probably win
it yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
My personal favorite actually is the Press Gang.
I love the Press Gang.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
Oh my God.
You need a mortgage to eatthere.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
I mean, I know what you're saying, and to reserve
there you have to book a monthin advance.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
You do have to book a long time.
Yeah, it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
I mean I'd say once every two years, it's probably
been a couple of years sinceI've been there, but the last
time I had it was Burger Weekand I had the kangaroo burger.
Right, oh boy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
I'm a big fan of the boardwalk.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
That's true too.
They've done such a great job.
They have.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
So when you have a nice dinner with your wife and
friends, you want to have thatnice little walk yeah, I agree,
Right next to the water.
So that's why both Café Nunezand Bicycle those restaurants
work for us.
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
I like it.
Favorite dish all time.
What's your favorite?

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
dish all time.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
After poutine.
If that's it, no, it can bepoutine.
Yeah, that's fine.
I love oysters, I just, oh,okay, it's not a dish.
No, it's not.
It's not a dish, that's fine.
I love oysters too.
I would eat oysters all day.
So would I too.
I would eat oysters all day, sowould I.
And you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
particularly with uh paired with caesars yes I love
an oyster, like a bunch ofoysters with caesars yeah, no,
so uh, and and you should comeup with us, you know, and the
other thing I mean when I, whenI came to nova scotia, I I
realized how fish and chipsshould taste like oh yes, fish
and chips here.
I can't how fish and chipsshould taste like oh yes, fish

(01:22:06):
and chips here.
I can't eat fish and chipselsewhere than Nova Scotia.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
now, you know what.
So again, I spoke to him aboutmy father-in-law in the past
earlier in this episode and oneof his favorite dishes was fish
and chips and he used to go.
He loved the Magdalene Islandsand he used to go and get fish
and chips there and I rememberwe went there and got fish and
chips there and I was likealmost fell out of my chair
because this was in 2013, beforea bunch of prices increased and

(01:22:32):
for fish and chips it was $18for fish and chips there.
And I remember like falling offmy chair because I was like we
can get fish and chips for likeeight bucks in Halifax.
I mean now it's kind of gone upand caught up and everything I
hate chips for like eight bucksin halifax.
I mean now it's kind of gone upand caught up and everything.
I hate to see what the pricesare there now yeah, yeah, but
fish and chips, yeah, that isit's.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
It's pretty good it is pretty not all places are
good but, it's very tough tofind bad fish and chips here.
Yeah, yeah, they're pretty goodyeah, uh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
So question number six so give me one restaurant
recommendation that is thatyou've ever been to.
That is an absolute, like yougotta have before you die, type
of thing.
Like one restaurant, yeah,what's your, what's a restaurant
?
You were like you know what, ifyou could eat in one restaurant
, it be uh, I don't know, like I, you know I, I think I told you

(01:23:23):
the last show that I'm, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
I don't look at the menu when I know that's right.
Yep, you did tell me that so Ikind of I'm flexible like I when
I go to.
I did it on friday with somefriends uh at uh the whole henry
house oh, the the Henry Houseis awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
I love that place.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
I mean, is it a guilty pleasure?
Or I mean I actually love thatplace.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
First of all, hand-pumped beer yeah, so
authentic UK-style beer, I know.
And they have the UltimateBurger, which is a burger patty
with smoked meat, with likejalapenos, yeah, like it's, it's
very good, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
So my son actually lives close, like on tobin
street right there, right now,right there we meet each other
at the at that place.
I just love that place.
Listen for a last meal.
I'd settle for the old henryhouse to be honest Wow, that's
huge.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
That's a huge showdown oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
To me it's just so authentic.
You feel good when you're there.
Yeah, nobody's pretentious.
Yeah, the service is great.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
Agreed, yeah, yeah not only the fireplace.
There you go, yeah, so I canleave that place and die you
know what, honestly, I, I Ithought you were going to pick
something way different.
Like you know, like some youknow michelin star level
restaurant and that's an well.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
So my, my, podcast producer is a michelin kind of
guy yeah, so we go to wheneverwe meet in material or toronto
we gotta go to these expensiveplaces.
I don't care.
Fair enough, I don't care.
As long as the service is good,then I'm all good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
That's the best, yeah , okay.
So, speaking of kind of finedining in the city, the Five
Fishermen was a restaurant thatwas a morgue back when the
Titanic sunk what, yes, and theyactually brought a bunch of the
bodies from the Titanic thatthey actually were able to
recover and they were actuallylaid there.
It was the morgue there.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Yep, so it's a haunted restaurant.
So my question to the foodprofessor is do you believe in
ghosts?

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
No, and I've been to that restaurant a few times.
Yeah, that's a great one.
I'm not sure anymore if I'mgoing to go back Spooky.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
Exactly who's in the kitchen.
It's actually you know what.
You'll be safe.
It's actually the women'swashroom.
Apparently, you hear a littlegirl crying in the women's
washroom.
So you may be safe.
You may never have to deal withit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
You've listened to Harryry potter that, that movie
where?

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
oh that girl but it's not this.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
when you go to universal, yeah, and you go to
their washroom, you can actuallydo.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
They play like laughter or whatever in there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
No way, I was actually on my own and I go who
the hell is talking man all?
Right, I didn't know that.
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
I got a bizarre question for you, yeah you know,
I got a bizarre question foryou, so question number eight is
chicken, pork, beef and fishare kind of viewed as like the
big four in the protein world.
Right, there's also a big fourin sports, and that's hockey,
baseball, basketball, football.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
What protein would play which sport in your opinion
?

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Oh, okay, fish would be baseball.
Okay, yep, beef would befootball.
Okay, chicken basketball andpork hockey.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
All right, does that fit?
You know what?
I would agree with that If youwere to substitute pork for
football and beef with hockey.
I think that would have beenfine.
But I think that lines uppretty good, yeah, I don't know
what the logic of the questionis?
I don't know either.
It's just a question I thoughtof because I thought it was
funny and people can debateabout it in the comments section
.
Yeah, exactly, thought it wasfunny and you know people can

(01:27:33):
debate about it in the in thecomment section, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
so question number nine, if you could travel to one
country based on foodexperience only.
What country would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
japan.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Oh okay, I've never been to japan, I've never been,
and I, that's up there for metoo yeah, uh, I, my daughters,
actually want to go to japan,and but the problem is that it's
just it takes so darn long toget there, that's true, so for
spring break or Christmas, wejust don't have the time, so we
settle for the south or whatever.
We're going to New York forEaster, but for colony

(01:28:00):
experiences Japan.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
That's a pretty solid one.
So, last question, this iswhere we can end it on.
That's a pretty solid one, yeah, so last question, this is
where we can end it on.
It's the question of 2025 thatwe're asking everybody, and that
is what is one piece of advicethat you were given that you'd
like to give me, or the peoplelistening that you'd like to
pass on Live in the present.

(01:28:24):
Live in the present.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
I appreciate the present as much in the present.
Appreciate the present as muchas possible, like I'm
appreciating this moment, likeright now.
Yeah, a lot of people arealways worried, concerned about
what people think what's goingto happen tomorrow, yeah, and
there's a lot of that.
There's too much of that.
I love that.
Just focus, appreciate what youhave.

(01:28:47):
Yeah, and yeah, enjoy themoment.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
That's perfect.
There you go, yeah, so let'send it on that.
Cheers, cheers.
Sylvain Chalabois, my glassesare empty.
Thank you, yeah, they're emptynow, but thank you for the
three-peat we appreciate it.
And yeah, and yeah, we'll haveto figure out how we get you on
for the four-peat in Texas.
That's right, and say hello toMike.
For me, I will certainly.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much, take care.

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Dr. Sylvain Charlebois - Unpacking Grocery Costs, Quebec's Culinary Revolution, and... Texas?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dr. Sylvain Charlebois - Unpacking Grocery Costs, Quebec's Culinary Revolution, and... Texas?