Matt Thomson - Love trust and admiration - How to raise our kids and foster good company culture - Afternoon Pint

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
SPEAKER_02
Cheers.
Welcome to the afternoon pint.
I'm Mike Dobin.
I am Matt Conrad.
And who's with us today?

SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
I'm Matt Thompson.
Matt Thompson.
You might hear a little puppy inthe background.

S (00:26):
SPEAKER_02
Or Oxford Tap Room, yeah, yeah.
With Garrison.
And uh the dog O just left, so Ithink I might get a little quiet
now.

SPEAKER_03 (00:37):
SPEAKER_03
So yeah.
Um I I just right off the bat, Ihave to just address the one
thing that right away.
Matt, you had a light beer, youget the tall ship.
What did you get?
Yours is like an amber color.
Garrison red.
So it's right, okay.
And I got the moo, like thenitro stout.

SP (00:53):
SPEAKER_04
Well, that would be great.

SPE (00:55):
SPEAKER_03
like one of these is when I seean image like this on social
media, cold glasses, the threedifferent colors with a beer.
I never want to drink a beermore ever than when I see the
three different colors.
Oh, the three different coloursof beers, all that.
I'm just like, I want to go geta flight right now.

(01:16):
And that's all I thought aboutwhen we cheers right there.
So just had to get that out ofthe way.

S (01:21):
SPEAKER_02
Tell us about it.
We don't know anything aboutthat.

SPEAK (01:25):
SPEAKER_03

SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Welcome back to Oh Squirrel.
Um, yes, this is uh this kind ofa fun show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
So uh I mean, really quick, I met you yesterday um at
the NSFM event, uh, and I washere for work, and we just ended
up having a chat on our kind ofunder a break or whatever.
And uh come to learn that youknow, you you know, I recognize
your TEDx talk.
Um you just recently spoke atTEDx Halifax, and that was an
excellent talk, by the way.
It was awesome.

(01:52):
We're gonna get into that.
I showed it to you, and yousaid, like I showed you his
response, right, in real time.
He was pretty impressed by it.
So we're both really happy tohave you here.
And uh I think um, you know,given that you you you're
diagnosed ADHD, and Matt and Iare also in that very same club,
he he's the most recent of theADHD.
I'm the most recent, yeah.
Officially diagnosed club.
So congratulations, Matt.

SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
The TV show they're like a show, like a it could be
like, oh yeah.
That could actually be like adot dot dot oh yeah exclamation
mark.
Could be another show.

SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
So you might just be the perfect guest for today.
So thanks so much for coming by.
Um, but I wanted to maybe letyou talk a little bit on your
show, or our like what we shouldhead axe a belt, and uh, I guess
what got you there?

SP (02:37):
SPEAKER_00
I'm thinking at the end of thisepisode, we're gonna have 17
different threads that thismedia empire that you two are
building is gonna go down, andmaybe we'll get some content and
the Kool-Aid man will just breakthrough the brick wall behind
you.

SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
My wife my wife sent me a meme that that said that
simply said, I was supposed toclean the toilet, but I started
a company instead.

SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
I was I was telling Mike yesterday, I was like, my
for the last couple years, uhthe the running joke in the in
the home is we're not startingany new companies this year.
That's that's what that's that'swhat we're trying for.
Um so I'm gonna set the bar lowhere and say you you y'all have
been very um complimentary ofthe TED Talk.
Um it took me you 36 years uh tokind of build that, build

(03:21):
towards that.
It took me three months to writeit collaboratively, and I've had
24 hours since that conversationto prepare for today.
So set the bar low and don'texpect any jobs other than that.
Um but uh yeah, I guess thebackground for the TED Talk, I
mean, kind of funnily enough,the the way that I describe it
to people, it's kind of awhimsical look at stress,

(03:43):
suicide, and the meaning oflife.

SPEAKER_04 (03:45):
SPEAKER_04

SP (03:45):
SPEAKER_00
it.
Um uh because it deals with someyou know heavy issues.
It deals with with you know thestress that we all live under,
what the the society places uponus um in this day and age, but
um, but also um it's kind of youknow it's built on the
background or the uh the backingof of my journey through life as

(04:06):
uh feeling like I was lettingeverybody down around me and and
trying to overcompensate bybeing a codependent people
pleaser um and realizing that umwhat really matters is the you
know the seeds that you'replanting each and every day and
where you are right now in thepresence.

SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
So, Matt, yeah, so I mean your old approach was kind
of the the hustle lifestyle, ifyou agree, like you know, push,
go, go, go, work so hard.

SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
Like you were living that lifestyle, correct?
Yes, I the only correction I'dmake to make to that is uh the
old lifestyle as though I'vemoved beyond that.
It's a con it's a constantjourney to remind yourself not
to.

SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
You're still there, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But uh you're kind of your newphilosophy, I guess, in in a
sense here.
It's like um to leadcourageously towards love,
right?
I mean, what does that look likeon a Tuesday at 10 a.m.
when stuff needs to get done?

S (04:57):
SPEAKER_00
moment when I came to thatrealization.
I was actually uh on a retreatum at uh location that's now
called Acitulisk at the time.
It was uh Windhorse Farms in NewGermany, uh in the middle of
Nova Scotia.
And I was working with mybusiness coach um and uh and

(05:18):
some other folks at the time onidentifying our own values and
purpose in life and uh and andgoing through some iterations,
identifying, going through someprocesses, you're writing your
own eulogy, you're you'rethinking about you know
everything that's kind of builtyou up into what you are in that
moment.
Um, and uh I came to thisrealization that something that
has always sparked, inspired,and and and really motivated me

(05:41):
was to lead courageously towardlove.
And what does that actually meanto your point?
Well, I really had to like I I Istudied English and and history
uh in in university, and I andit so I really want to get into
like the etymology of the of thewords themselves, because like I
for a long time ran away fromlove.
I didn't tell people I lovedthem for a very long time.
Um and I was always I alwaysfelt like ashamed of even using

(06:03):
the words courage when I wastalking about myself.
But what I realized in lookinginto courage is the two
definitions of courage really,really strike a chord with me.
One is one of its roots iscourage, curr, living of the
heart.
Um, and the other is theopposite, the opposite of
courage is not cowardice, butcomplacency in its original

(06:23):
words.
So to answer your question abouton a Tuesday, um, it's doing
something.
It's doing something, it's it'sit's not leaning away from the
hard thing, it's having thecourage to act and turn the
having the courage to actauthentically, which for me is
acting in uh in a in a lovingmanner, which can sometimes feel
really vulnerable because um youknow you know the the the

(06:44):
concept of love is is sometimeschallenging for for some folks
and um and everybody has theirtheir own kind of unique uh
relationship with it.
I certainly did growing up, andum um for me it's just creating
a space uh where hopefullyeverybody can feel seen, heard.
Um, and to me that's like areally powerful act of love.

SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
That's great, man.
Like, how would you describelove now?

SPEAKER (07:07):
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
Probably in that way.
Like it, like the the wayactually, I was uh if we really
want to get into it, when I wasin therapy yesterday, um I was I
was uh I was I was talking aboutsome of the recent podcasts I
was listening to in some of thejournaling I was doing.
Um, and the way that I describelove now is the opportunity to
uh have light shone on thedeepest, darkest parts of

(07:30):
yourself and accept it.
And I think that that's that'ssomething for me that um uh I'm
I'm experiencing now for maybeeven the first time individually
from a self-love perspective.
Um, and also I'm lucky enough toexperience that in my
relationship as well.

SPEA (07:46):
SPEAKER_03
No, yeah.
The um it's uh it's interestingthat you you must find it
strange because when you go upthere and you have TED talks and
you kind of become like asubject matter expert, people
kind of look at you as like asubject matter expert.

(08:47):
How do you how do you like kindof reconcile with the fact that
you say that you're it's still awork in progress, it's still a
journey I'm going on, and yetyou have people who are coming
you coming to you for thatexpertise, guidance.

SPEAKER_00 (09:01):
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting one.
It it's uh it for a long time Ikind of you know um shied away
from it.
Um, but I think the approachthat I take now is is the
opportunity to ask questions.
Like I'd love to know what yourdefinitions of love are because
I think that there's you know uhyou know, there's another
definition of love is is justyou know uh living our everyday

(09:21):
life and seeing ourselves andothers.
Like there's there's so much,like, because when I shine the
shine light on on the deepest,darkest parts of myself to love
myself, the same is true from auniversal perspective for others
as well, right?
So um I I I like to think thatthere's just like
interconnectedness of us all.
And if I can if if I can if Ican um if I can create a space

(09:44):
where uh people can realize thatI am literally just uh an
authentic living, breathing,flawed human being um in the
same way that they are, then ummaybe they can take some of that
shine off, but recognize thatlike man, like we're all just
we're all just trying a human.
Um I'm I'm I'm not the subjectmatter expert nonsense is is not

(10:05):
something I'm comfortable with.
Because I think what it does isit can also create um like
there's so much impostersyndrome out there.
Because everybody thinks thateverybody has everything
together, I don't have anythingtogether, like I'm still trying,
man.
Like, you know, the more thatyou kind of rely on that like
curated image, um, the more of athe more you're kind of you know
feeding into that narrative thateverybody's got things together.

(10:25):
But I think uh if you can say,well, thank you for seeing what
I put out there, because it itit was a lot of work to put that
TED talk together, but also hereare all the things that you know
I'm trying and failing at.
Um, it can kind of humanize it alittle bit more and make it a
little bit more accessible.

SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Yeah, I think that that makes a lot of sense.
I mean for me, like kind of forme, like when I think about like
definition of love, I thinkthere's lots of things you can
talk about, but in my life, Iguess it's like I've always and
you can see you know yourthoughts on this would be
interesting, but is uh like Ialways feel and I think it's
biblical, but it's like uh youknow, to love is to serve has
always kind of been a thing forme.

(11:00):
Um you know, I always feel likedoing things and trying to leave
things better.
Um you know, it's sometimes likeyou know, it doesn't it means
doing sometimes hard work and itsometimes means doing things
that people might not understandin the moment, but just trying
to do things that and investinto something, whether it be
your community, your family,those around you, company,

(11:22):
whatever.
That's just kind of like for me,that's always been like that.

SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Like I think that's all I kinda understand it too.
Like I'm kinda kinda with you onthat.
Like, you know, it's a there's acertain loyalty, there's a
certain perseverance to it, andthere's a certain kind of uh uh
pushing.
You know, you gotta get youcan't give up.
Yeah, right, you know, and uhyou know it's enduring, you
know.
You know, it's also it's it'salso magnetic.
There's great parts about it,there's fun parts about it,

(11:48):
there's getting away with eachother, there's enjoying a moment
with somebody.
So there's a lot of differentthings about love, right?
Like it is comp comp complex.

S (11:56):
SPEAKER_03
Sure, right?
Like I think I just more uhrelate, like like my parents
have two very different lovelanguages uh in in terms of how
they show they care.
My mother is someone who likesto like give.
She's a very generous person.
But sometimes I'm like it, youknow, sometimes it's like eh,

(12:16):
you don't stop.
You don't have to give.
Like you don't have to displayyour love in like, here's this,
here's that.
Dad, I relate more to it, isdad's the type of guy that will
get up at five o'clock in themorning and go shovel the old
lady's uh driveway and uh notsay anything to anybody and just
go back to bed.
Right?

SP (12:35):
SPEAKER_00
service.
Those are the languages, yeah.
Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
Well, I think it's uh so a couple different I mean
I think I think a lot ofdifferent things.
First of all, I appreciate theanswers.
Um it's it there's there's athere's a little bit of like a
um love is in the eye of thebeholder answer that I would
give, which is um uh uh one ofthe things I've learned is just
because there's different lovelanguages, kind of like one of
the things that you said islike, well, you know, you don't

(13:02):
have to, you know, you know,there's enough gift giving.
I'd say you know, it's not youknow, thanks for that, mom.
Um but um but there's alsosomething really beautiful about
her like acting in a loving wayin in in the way that she
interprets it.
And and if you can see thatservice and you can see that
action beyond the gift itself,um then what a beautiful way to

(13:22):
kind of hear I love you.
Now, the way that I've had tointerpret it is like what you
know, my my mom um used to havea uh a puppet, she used to go to
elementary schools and she andshe had a puppet called the I
Care Cat.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
And that's kind of, you know, the biblical kind of
definition that you gave, Matt,is is is similar to that.
But what I had to learn withthat is I think there's
something beautiful about thatact of service, but that doesn't
necessarily always have to beoutward, it can also be inward.
And that's where I'm reallytrying to challenge myself these
days is to recognize that, youknow, um, you know, there's a
fine line or there's a directcorrelation between love as an

(13:59):
act of service and hustleculture.
Yeah if you don't also recognizethat you need to be of service
to yourself and you need to beof service to your values, you
need to be of service to yourlove language, and you need to
recognize that you can't begiving at the you know at uh at
the expense of everything thatyou are and everything that you
have.

S (14:16):
SPEAKER_03
we talk about hustle culture andthings like that, but like it's
um there's also that fine lineof like hustling for the life
that you want, which could it bethe end game being, you know,
the financial freedom for yourfamily, and hopefully, you know,
you can get wrapped up andobsessed with it, and then you

(14:37):
get lost in it.
But I mean, I hope at some pointyou can get to a point where all
of us can get to a point whereuh you know you've made enough
money where you're financiallyfree, and then you can start
really choosing to slow down.

SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
There's also that, like how how like any thoughts
on like how you balance that andI mean I don't know, man.
I was still trying to figure itout.
But like I I think I think youyou you mentioned one point,
kind of you know, you don't wantto lose yourself to it.
Yeah.
Um I think that what we need tobe really careful of these days
is making sure that we're doingit for us and for the right
reasons and not just becauseit's what we see or it's because

(15:14):
with what we see promoted, orit's because it's the noise
that's out there.
Yep.
So I think the more that you canlive authentically towards
whatever it is that you know, ifthat's if if if that's where
your values are and if that'swhat you want to live towards,
and you want to be able to to tohave that financial freedom,
then go out and do that, andthat's awesome.
Then it's it then you're nothustling for for others or or
for the projection of self.

(15:36):
You're just you're you're you'redoing it for yourself, and
that's an act of self-love rightthere.
But there, I feel, at least forme, there's a lot of like, well,
what am I actually doing thisfor?
Right.
Um, am I just doing this forbecause I feel like I have to,
because I feel like that's howI'm a value, maybe because I'm
doing it for other people.
So a lot of it just comes backto that introspection, that
self-reflection, to be like,well, what am I doing this for?

(15:57):
Like, how how can I actually umyou know truly feel like
fulfilled and challenged and andwhatnot?
Maybe that is through hustleculture, and maybe that is
through starting a record label.

SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
Something you just said there makes me think too.
I think if you go living a lifeof doing everything for everyone
else, you might eventually startto resent that a little bit
about yourself, right?
And then you might end uh startputting that guilt on others.
It's like, well, I did all thisfor you, right?
That's a valid point, you know.
And uh so to your point, right?

SPEAKER_00 (16:25):
Well, and and then you and then and then you expect
them to be like, Can you uh canyou acknowledge that?

S (16:29):
SPEAKER_02
And then you almost like, well,you know, that person, you've
done that for them and you'vegiven yourself that part to
them, but they might have noteven asked for that, right?
I think that that's a huge likeit's you know, it gets uh
confusing, yeah.
SPEAKER_03
year through like uh you knowyeah, thank you.
Um we uh I've learned that thatis a a kind of a component of

(16:55):
the ADHD is for a long time,like for the last 20 years, I'm
40 years old.
Since I've been about 19, 20years old, I've been doing a lot
of volunteer work.
And again, that kind of goesback to that love is the serve,
like I want to be involved in mycommunity, I want to do that
stuff.
But at one point I was sittingon like, no joke, like four
boards, and the you know,sitting on these boards, sitting
on these things that get done,and I mean, and over my time I

(17:16):
probably sat on like eight.
And a lot of it was like I Istruggle to say no, because I
feel like if I'm saying no, thenI'm like letting you know my
community down or whatever itmay be.
Uh but then it just got to apoint where it's like, oh my, I
just can't, I just can't dothis, and I had to scale way,
way, way back, right?
But there's something about whatyou were saying about how the

(17:37):
expectation is there, uh, youknow, trying to pleasing and all
that it totally resonates withme because at some point I I
think I got burnt out withvolunteering.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Well, I I and I, you know, for and you know, we can
get into the nonprofit sectorand and why and what that is and
the challenges that are faced,but I think what what's really
interesting about the hustleculture piece there is that like
it comes back to like are youlosing yourself?
Because if if you if you findyourself in a place where you're
creating animosity andresentment because you feel like
you're doing things for others,but you're not doing it for
yourself because you don't evenyou have the space to hear

(18:19):
yourself think, uh to hear tohear your own voice.
Like for for me, it's it's lessa matter of serving on boards,
but I'm at my best when I'm notingesting a ton of content, when
I'm holding space for myself toactually be bored and think and
hear my own voice.
Like there's this Jimmy Carr umquote where he talks about he's

(18:40):
a comedian, I think.
Oh, yeah, great comedian.
We saw him live.
Oh, yeah.
We just saw him live, yeah.
So so he he does this.
Like, I'm I'm a I'm a bigpodcast Jimmy Carr fan because I
think he's a really deepthinker.
Um, and one of the things hetalks about is trying to figure
out um, he started to to write aclass um so that comedy could be

(19:00):
taught in schools, which manycomedians feel like you can't do
that, you either have it or youdon't.
But what he realized in writingthat class was all he was doing
was creating a vessel in whichpeople can get to know their own
authentic voice because that iswhat the the way that's where
the funny comes from.
And his biggest fear is thatthere are so many people in this
world that will live and diewithout actually hearing their
own voice.

SP (19:21):
SPEAKER_02
like AA meetings.
Like they're not they're notfunny, dude.
Like they well, I mean they'refunny, but like what you're
trying to do is like everyonefirst has to kind of let
themselves know, write a littlebit about themselves, share a
bit about themselves.
And it starts with Luann, who'snever laughed in 20 years since
her since her cat died, right?
Like, you know, and it goes andit no, but seriously, though, it

(19:42):
goes and it goes deeper anddarker and darker, and you're
like, holy frig, right?
Like, what's out, you know,there's a you know a lot wrong
with everybody in this room,you're thinking, right?
At the beginning, and yourself,and uh then all of a sudden you
start finding the humor in that,making other people laugh with
that, and then it's it is areally cool way.
I I think comedy uh and comedyclasses should certainly be

(20:02):
taught in schools.
I think it's a great thing.
If yeah, if you can uh you justneed to realize what you're
you're not teaching knock-knockjokes to I think comedy needs to
be taught sometimes just sopeople understand it, and it can
be naturally be endearment andlove towards one another, and
it's not necessarily hate.

SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Uh yeah, actually, um Jimmy Carr actually is
someone who talks about thatbecause Jimmy Carr does a lot of
uh like charity comedy shows atuh hospitals where people are
terminal.
Yeah, yeah.
And he makes a he's a dark humorguy, and he makes a lot of dark
humor jokes, yeah, yeah,particularly at these people who
are dying.
Like he makes jokes about themand everything.

(20:37):
He's like, Oh, it's great to seethat couple faces return this
year, kind of thing, things likethat, right?
Like he's pretty dark and prettybut the thing is that he does it
because it's making those peoplelaugh.
And they you know, the same withthe saying goes, laughter's the
best medicine, right?
Yeah, and I think there issomething to be said.
I think people who have a darksense of humor, maybe I'm biased
because I do, but I think peoplewho have a dark sense of humor

(20:59):
are more mentally equipped tohandle really messed up things
in their life because of that.

SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I mean my partner, she'sa nurse, and like she'll she has
a crazy sick sense of humor, andthey all do, and so do uh
paramedics, right?
I mean, they all have reallydisturbing senses of humor and
police, uh, you'll find like alot of people in those
industries that see some of themost horrifying stuff.
Usually got the most warpedsense of humor you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Well, what's what's interesting about that is just
like the the concept of like Ithink laughter is also a uh like
universal.
Yeah, it's and it's such a it'ssuch a universal language where
where if we can if we can stripaway um you know, there are
things that we will all dealwith in life, right?
Uh and some of those arebeautiful and some of those are

(21:42):
terrible, but there's there'ssomething universal about that.
And if you can if you can findthe laughter and the joy, the
humor in that, um what abeautiful thing.

SPEAKER (21:51):
SPEAKER_03
Uh that's the thing.
And for me, like I'm someonewho's like nothing's really off
limits, right?
Um and I know I know I knowyeah, but like nothing's really
off limits for me.
And I'll like as long as it'sdelivered in the right way, and
and there you you know, there'sa lot of people.

SP (22:05):
SPEAKER_02
like you know, for me, it's ifit's good of good intentions, I
mean I'm all for anything,right?
That's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
I think it all comes down to intentions and things
like that.
Like, you know, I listen to yourTED talk.
I know you've had uh uh you hada close friend who uh ended up
end taking their own life, andyeah, uh I have a I had a close
cousin who did the same back in2008, um, and and I had another
cousin who unsuccessfullyattempted that as well.
And um you know, I am on myserious side, take that stuff

(22:36):
very seriously, and I you knowtry to make sure that I'm there
for people, and I've had thosemoments where I've had to like
you know, kind of haul peopleoff to the side and be like, you
you good, calm down, kind oflike let's talk, whatever,
right?
Um but at the same time, I willprobably laugh at a joke about
suicide because I just thinklike that like darkness in my

(22:59):
brain helps me with the havingto cope with the real life
things of those things too.

SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
Yeah, well it's it's uh well first of all, sorry you
had to you know go through that.
I think there are so many of usthat have, right?
Yeah, uh for for whether it'syou know close friends or
acquaintances or colleagues orour family members, right?
Um but uh yeah, like you know,there even even sometimes joking
about it uh is something that'shelpful.

(23:26):
Like I always say, you know, uhlike I say in the TED Talk, uh I
I found myself reading this bookafter Kinger died, and he was my
buddy, um, called The FiveRegrets of the Dying.
Um which was this book by umthis Australian palliative care
nurse who put 30 years of havingconversations with patients that
were going through palliativecare and and compiled it into
these five regrets.

(23:46):
Um and uh and and and the reasonI I got to that point was
because King always said hewanted to live a life of no
regrets.
And uh and those of us who knewhim knew that if anybody should
have regrets, it was that idiotbecause he did like there were
so many things that he shouldnot have done that he did.
Um and I and I and I joke aboutthat because in in in in life um

(24:08):
he was he brought so much joy,he brought so much humor, he
brought so much like nonsensicalridiculousness, and uh, and and
you know, we're talking aboutuniversal truths earlier.
Like the fact is, like, it wasyou know terrible and and and
sad what has happened.
Um uh and also in life, he wasone of the most like jovial
humans, and and it's importantto kind of keep that alive

(24:29):
through that laughter as well.

S (24:31):
SPEAKER_01
If you can kind of give us acouple takeaways from that book
you read.

SPE (24:35):
SPEAKER_00
far as the takeaway isconcerned, the wildest part for
me was how like platitudes aresometimes real, like the things
that you hear as a as a kidgrowing up, like like if I were
to give you 10 guesses, you'dprobably get four of the five

(24:56):
top regrets.
And and and and that really gotme thinking because I was like,
well, like if we know thesethings, why do they keep
happening?
Like, I wish I hadn't worked sohard.
Uh like like those types ofthings, right?
Um, I wish I'd stay closer withmy friends.
Like you guys have thisbeautiful thing where you where
you're you're you know you'reconnected through work, you're
connected through podcasts,you're connected through all
these boards, and I mean you'refucking sick of each other at

(25:17):
this point, but yeah, yeah, butuh you know.
Funny enough to not, but notreally.
SPEAKER_02
friends though, you miss otherconnections.
Like I got friends all the timethat I feel guilty about.
Yes.
I was telling you one that I'lltell everybody here because I
think it's a really goodexample.
I had uh I was invited tosomething this Saturday, and I
think you know what I'm like.
Um I like friends in a smallgroup setting, and as soon as it

(25:37):
gets too big, I usually I'm likebail.
But I never really knew why thatwas, I just thought it was
grouchy, and uh, you know,realized that too.
Well, it has a little bit to dowith anxiety, and I didn't
really know about that aboutmyself until this year doctor
diagnosed it, and I didn't evenbelieve it because I didn't
think I could have anxietybecause I'm like, I do all this
crazy shit.
What are you talking about?

(25:58):
Like I've I've I've you know, Ifelt then I've always kind of
ran into things almostfearlessly.
I've gone, I've been on stage asa comedian, as a rapper, as so
many different variations andversions of myself.
I'm like, I'm not I don't haveanxiety, but I mean I did I
always have get sickness anduncomfortableness when I had to
do something, you know.
I always uh dreaded it when itwasn't just those core people

(26:21):
that I trusted, and it was abunch of new faces, right?
And I'd have to interact withpeople on a more private level
and blend my private life intomy public life, you know what I
mean?
So I was feeling anxious aboutthat.
100%.
Yeah, yeah.
So like super anxious.
But the point that I just wantto do it, yeah, right.
So so uh a friend of mine thatI'm just gonna go and see this
weekend because he was like kindof piling more and more invites

(26:42):
on to his, you know, gettogether this Saturday, where I
bailed, like all them up thenext day and say, Hey man,
sorry.
And uh I want to let you knowI'm gonna come up Saturday
night, and this is why I waskind of bailing, and uh I
apologize, but I'm gonna see Ihaven't seen you in a long time,
I want to see your new house.

SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
You know, so so like that's a that like that's such a
beautiful story because it's anact of love, it's an act of like
self-awareness, but you're alsoyou know, one of the one of the
five regrets was I wish I'dstayed in closer touch with my
friends, yeah.
Right.
So so you like I think that whatwhat to answer your original
question or like the you knowthe takeaways from that, like
the well the one that I talkabout in the in the TED talk is

(27:17):
I wish I'd live a life that wastrue to myself and not the life
others expected of me.
And that one really hit home forme in in a big way.
And you know, we've gottenthrough three of the five, but
essentially what what my biggesttakeaway was was if these are
universal platitudes that wethat that we've all kind of
heard or inherently know andcould probably guess, then what

(27:37):
better way to honor those thathave lived their life with those
regrets than by making sure thatwe don't and we don't end our
life with those.
Maybe we'll have differentregrets.
I hope to God I have differentregrets.
My top five regrets are gonna bevery different than those five,
but um, but we owe it to those.
Like what a what a beautiful actof love towards those lives that
were that were that were lostwith with those regrets in their
hearts by being like, you knowwhat, I'm gonna I'm gonna learn

(27:59):
from that.
Yeah, and you did that.
Yeah, yeah.
You you reached out to thatfriend and said, What a
beautiful act.

SP (28:05):
SPEAKER_03
And the friends too, especially.
I mean, you know, we work, wehave families, yeah.
And we're you know, Mike and Iare trying to get this thing
like kind of growing constantly,kind of thing.
Friends do kind of fall in alittle bit of the wayside, and I
get I get a little bit guilty.
I feel guilty about thatsometimes.
Where sometimes when we're doingthings, I'll try to like invite
a friend.
So I'm just kind of like, heyman, you want to come along with

(28:27):
this?
It's like uh that's just mesaying, like, I have to do this
thing, but also I'd like to seeyou and hang out with you.
So you want to like come along?
Kind of thing?
Try to do it, right?
But yeah, there's times there'speople who I would see a lot
more often that I don't becausewe got this to do.
I have a family that I obviouslywon't spend as much time with,
and uh yeah, you know, we work.
SPEAKER_00

(28:48):
is the third wheel.
Uh let's invite somebody to bethe third wheel.
But but here's like with regardsto like calls to action, like
how cool would it be as it likehere's what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna leave this podcast,I'm gonna reach out to somebody
I haven't talked to in a coupleweeks just to say, hey, thinking
about you, man.
Yeah, like you do it.
Like just do it.
Like that that that kind of likerandom, beautiful message that

(29:09):
you hear from somebody, likethat can really change somebody.
You have no idea the level ofimpact they can have.

S (29:13):
SPEAKER_03
probably in the last year and ahalf, two years that has become
like a low-key kind of person Ilook up to, uh, is Adam Sandler.
Like, obviously, I've alwaysliked him, he's always been
funny, some of the funniestmovies ever.
But behind the scenes, did hebuy you a sports car by the way?

SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Because I hear that.

SPEAKER_03 (29:31):
Yeah, no, yeah, but seriously, you gotta get in a
movie or two first.
The thing is, is that that guymakes movies, he does what I
would like to do if I was in hissituation, which is like he
brings his family on set, heputs them in the movies, like he
puts his daughters and his wifein the movies, gives them a
part, makes sure his friends arealways working, things like
that, like checks in them allthe time.
I think it's like I mean, that'sthat's a real person in

(29:53):
Hollywood.
In a world full of fake people,that guy seems like he's 100%
real.

SPEAK (29:58):
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
As somebody who watched HappyGilmore one and two with my kids
this year, uh I thought twowasn't so bad, man.

SPEAKER_02 (30:06):
I just appreciated seeing the seeing his character
continue like what happened tohim.
I was just really didn't likewhat they did with his uh uh
wife.

SPEAKER_03 (30:14):
Yeah, we did we both didn't like that.
I didn't like how they killedher.

SPEAKER_02 (30:16):
Yeah, it was like I was like I was like, what the f
like?
I mean it was shocking.
It was shocking.
Yeah, I didn't know.
Ten minutes in.
Yeah, and I mean, you know, I'malso watching that show she's on
uh with Andrea, where that'slike our bedtime show right now.

SPE (30:27):
SPEAKER_03

SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
Modern Family, so we never started watching it until
this year, and uh yeah, so likeI thought she was a pretty
popular character, right?
To kind of kill off so quick.
I was like, oof, yeah, I didn'tsee that coming, but uh what do
I know?
Creative liberties, creativeliberties, yeah.
So we gotta go back to you,Matt, because we've been we've
been going all over the place,which which is awesome.
I love this.
So, like, uh, what do you do fora living, man?

SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
I have interesting conversations with interesting
people, yeah.

SPEAKER_0 (30:56):
SPEAKER_02
You you were in the corporateworld, right?
Stepped away from it uh becauseof a lot of the reasons you've I
think people could probably putthat together from all
everything we just talked about.
But you know, what's thebusiness that you started?
What are you doing now?

SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Yeah, so so uh eight years ago, kind of stepped away
from the corporate world umbecause of hustle culture,
because a lot of the stuff wetalked about, and and it's been
a journey ever since, butstepped into to uh uh wanted to
set my own hours, so started myown business because that's
easy, right?
It's uh it's that way it's youdon't work more hours that way.
Oh, what are you talking about?
Not like I had two kids andthird on the way and then like

(31:31):
oh quit quit the job.
Um, but essentially, um, likewhat it what it boils down to is
there was a couple differentkinds of things that came to
fruition.
Um the first was there was thisthing called the IVNY report
that came out in in Nova Scotia.
And it was all doom and gloom.
People are coming to Nova Scotiato retire and die.
Like, you know, nothing is gonnahappen.
Um, I had just moved back toNova Scotia with my wife to

(31:52):
start my family.
Um, and uh and and we're we'reseeing this, and it was all doom
and gloom, and we're like, well,like what can what like again,
courage.
Like the opposite of courage isnot cowardice, it's complacency.
So, what can we do to addresssome of these things?
And we recognize that there's anopportunity to um, you know, if
people are leaving Nova Scotiabecause they didn't see
opportunities, well, let's let'slet's create something where

(32:13):
people can see opportunities.
Um, and uh, and so we started towork with employers on being
able to kind of align them withtalent and and and seeing if we
could kind of attract and retainfolks into organizations.
Um, and and we realized, havinggone through the processes
ourselves, that oftentimes whenorganizations are hiring, it can
feel very transactional.

(32:33):
It can feel very chuck a resumeat a wall to see what sticks.
Um, and we recognized that likeholding space for people to feel
seen and heard, where you can beseen as a person and as opposed
to just uh, you know, whatyou've done, uh, or as opposed
to just like you know, words ona page, um really made a big
difference.
So we started working withorganizations on on revamping,

(32:55):
you know, like like we we domindfulness uh exercises um as
part of a of a pre-screen whenwe're doing interviews to be
able to to have folks be like,listen, like you know, we we
there's data out there that sayslike a quarter of the people
would rather have uh root canalsand go through a job interview.
Like, well, that's a low bar.
Like we can do better than aroot canal.
Like it's we could probably dobetter than that.

(33:16):
So we recognize that you know,if you can just hold like have a
conversation like you folks doon a regular basis in this
podcast format, where you canjust say, I'm genuinely
interested in who you are, thenyou can break down a lot of
those barriers, a lot of thosewalls, a lot of those things
that people try to project andsay that I've done this, I've
done this, and and and they maynot be right for the job.
You can actually have a realauthentic connection.

(33:38):
So we started doing that, anduh, and we've been doing that
for about eight years or so, andrecognize that working with
organizations through that andbeing able to um help kind of uh
create not only um theenvironment that helps bring
people in the door, but alsohelps support them once they're
once once you know theiremployees are through the door.
So we do things like uhworkshops, like um
organizational culture work.

(33:59):
Um uh there's a lot of speakingthat that we do as an
organization, just kind of builtaround uh creating environments
where where people want to beand people want to stay.
Um so placemaking 4G has had theprivilege of working with uh you
know with nonprofits or notnonprofits, with First Nations,
um with municipalities, um withuh with associations, with
colleges, with for-profits,nonprofits, everybody in between

(34:22):
across Atlantic Canada andacross the country, um, as we've
built up this kind of trying totake a more humanized approach
uh to the work that we do.

SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
I mean, there's two sides of me when I hear that,
and I mean it just hopefullythat other people can hear this
too for themselves.
Like, so one part of me reallyleans into that.
I understand mindfulness, likesomething I've really been
focusing on this year and lastyear, but this is very recent.
Two years ago, Mike would havebeen like that.
Sounds like a bunch of hippie,you know, baloney, and I'm not

(34:51):
interested in sitting there andgetting to know you intimately,
right?
I um I'm here to work, um, youknow, so you must see that in
other people in some sense, likeeven maybe on a more executive
level, or how do you feel likehow do people normally react to
this?
Because I'm sure not everybodyreacts holistically to it.

SPEAKER (35:10):
SPEAKER_00
Um, um, and even you know, we'rewe're talking about you know,
within that context, but also,you know, a couple weeks ago is
doing doing work withorganizations across Atlantic
Canada that are that are lookingto build and grow their export
businesses, and we did asix-minute-long mindfulness
exercise.
Um, um, so you know, it's it'syou know, to to to answer your

(35:32):
question, it you know, it'sacross the spectrum to who's
doing it.
Um less resistance than youwould think, but I think a lot
of that comes from um it's notforced, it's like it's it's
something that's a big part ofmy life, even just as far as
like we always you know makesure that that people understand
who we are first.
So I'm saying, you know, if I'mif I'm let's say I'm leading an

(35:53):
interview with you, you're gonnaget an introduction video to me
before we ever meet.
You're gonna get to know me,you're gonna get to know who I
am, what this process is allabout.
And you might be able to say,Well, this is gonna be a bit of
an interesting experience, buthere we go.
Um, and you know, the quote thatI often use from Oprah is when
you start in stillness,everything that comes from that
flows from a place of power andnot from a frenzied state.

SPEAKE (36:14):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAKER_00 (36:16):
Pretty good, yeah.
And and and so so likeoftentimes she's pretty
successful, she's too okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I think uh do we have a podcastsponsor?

SPEAKER_02 (36:25):
Do we want to uh if she wants to, if she wants a
spot, we'll see if we can fither in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
We'll fit her on the on the O network, yeah.
Yeah, um, but it butessentially, you know, what that
does is it it all it does is itjust creates a space where we
can be like still for a momentand then like hear our inner
voice, even if it's just at thebeginning of an interview
process where all you're doingis you're taking a couple deep
breaths.
Maybe you're buying into theprocess, maybe you're not, but
you're calm, you can maybe feelyour shoulders relax a little

(36:49):
bit, and then you can actuallyspeak authentically and not
pre-rehearse lines and not tryto project.
Um, so you know, I'm sure thatthere's different depths of of
of like uh of of impact that ithas on folks, but it's probably
the number one piece of feedbackthat we get back is how
important that process was onthat person's journey.

SPEAKE (37:08):
SPEAKER_02
people not to be authentic?
Because there's a lot of, youknow, there's a lot of um how do
I say, you know, ways you'resupposed to act.
Like, you know, ways you'resupposed to behave.
You might not be supposed to saythat question to that person or
make that criticism to thatexecutive or or whatever, right?
So it it it gets challengingbecause as soon as you kind of

(37:31):
let the uh creature out of thebox, or to speak, it can do wild
things, right?

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Like, you know, so it's like some people don't know
how to get over that.
Yeah, that's another thing.
If you have people who get hurtby that, hurt by it, but also
people some people who just likeonce you've burned an image of
who you are in their brain,that's it, that's all you ever
are.
And if it's someone who's aboveyou however many degrees, that
can be a problem.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
I had that happen to me literally.
I had a conversation withsomebody yesterday who came up
to me and was like, Man, Iwatched your TED talk and I did
not expect to feel so emotional.
He's like, I had this image ofyou, you were this was not at
all what I was like, what I wasexpecting.
And and so in that case, I likeI like to think it was a
positive change that uh thatthat like I do have the depth of

(38:16):
emotion to be able to bring thatout.
But dude, it's such aninteresting question, Mike,
because like one of the thingsthat used to give me, you know,
you're talking about anxiety,used to give me the most anxiety
is like, oh, so you run a firmthat does uh you know
organizational culture work andlike helps organizations with
recruitment and stuff.
So what's your advice uh goinginto job interviews?
And I say I always preface it bysaying, I can only provide you

(38:38):
with advice based on what I knowabout the processes that we run.

SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Because I don't want to set you up for failure and
saying it's like universallywhat happens out there, right?
Um so I think it's reallyimportant because you know you
have to feel safe to be able tofeel authentic, and safety is
different for everybody, andpsychological safety is not
something that happenseverywhere in the corporate
world, but there is movement.
So, for instance, there's thisbig shift that would like we've

(39:02):
been talking about it for eightyears, and it's there's articles
in Forbes dating back to theearly 2010s, and now people are
really starting to adopt it, islike this movement from fit to
contribution or from fit toalignment.
Yeah, and and and and that's anindication that don't you don't,
you know, essentially askingsomebody to fit something is
asking them to change who theyare in order to fit your vision

(39:24):
of of what culture should be,and then you end up with a very
transactional relationship.

SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAKER_00 (39:30):
And and so there's there's there's there's
movement, maybe not as fast asI'd like to see it at like the
corporate level where um wherewhere there is progress that's
being made, and it's importantto celebrate that.
And it could it be better?
Absolutely.
Um you know it can everybody goout and be like authentically
their their full selves in everyspace.
If they feel safe in doing so,then absolutely.

(39:52):
And if not, then no, put upthose, like put up those fences
to protect yourself if that'sthe if that's the case.
But what what's important to toknow is that there are people
like yourself, uh like whatwe're doing, that are looking to
kind of push that cultureforward to allow for those more,
you know, big ship big shipsturn slowly type of uh
environments to be able to allowfor folks to truly uh feel safe

(40:15):
being authentic.

SPE (40:16):
SPEAKER_03
things that I've come to come torealize is in my kind of working
life is you know, I've always uhoriginally kind of had like for
a long time I had this uhmentality is like, okay, well I
want to, you know, rise up tothe top.
I want to be, you know, the VPof something someday or
whatever.
And I think if I self-reflectmore and more of like, you know,

(40:38):
would I really truly like doingthat job?
Maybe, I don't know.
Um, but I think the my drivingfactor is that the higher you go
up, the bigger your umbrella isof who you can affect within the
workplace.
And a big part of why I likebeing a manager is I like to be
able to create a positiveworkplace and uh you know like

(41:00):
uh you have more control,obviously, when you have a team.
And then the higher you can goup, you have a bit, you know,
you can you can affect morepeople and how that goes.
So that's the thing, is like Ifind myself now in a situation
where it's like I'd like to bethe VP because I want to instill
my mentality on how peopleshould be coming to the
workplace, but I don'tnecessarily want to do all the

(41:24):
other stuff.
I don't necessarily want to betoo close to the sun, you know
what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 (41:29):
SPEAKER_05

S (41:30):
SPEAKER_02
That makes sense.
I mean, I mean the other thingthough, it's like I mean, you
know, I I I I can't I can't helpbut think that like with with
work culture, we still withlarger corporations have a thing
where it's like kind of keepyour head down, right?
You know, how do you besuccessful?
Keep your head down, do thework, right?
While the ones that aresuccessful are not doing that.

(41:53):
SPEAKER_00
of all, I haven't had a real jobin many years, so uh so I I
don't I don't know how accurateand I'm probably more prone to
be the Icarus uh flying tooclose to the sun, yeah, as you
mentioned.
Um I I I think that there is,but I think that honestly, a lot
of this just comes down to likeif if we just break down one

(42:14):
wall here and say that you know,I don't even know if it's like
corporate versus not, or like Ithink a lot of it is just like
the way that systems aredesigned right now, there's
systems that are designed tohelp promote this this like
weird fris facade.
And instead of, you know, as youmentioned, like if we can have
leaders emerge with curiosity,where like even you know, I'd

(42:36):
I'd be curious to know, like,you know, maybe it's less about
instilling what your vision ofwhat culture can be, but instead
of being curious to being ableto to ask folks, like, hey, what
do you want to see in thisworkplace, to being able to to
to help, you know, lean into alittle bit more co-creation, a
little bit more collaboration,um, as opposed to what these
systems that have been builttend to promote, I think that

(42:58):
can go a really long way.
And there are some really goodexamples of that too, even just
within this province.
Like, there's some reallyfantastic organizations and
leaders that are able to kind ofcreate this sense of safety and
evolution and growth as as as aswe're evolving, and and this
like this this tired old kind ofsense of like this doom and

(43:19):
gloom kind of corporate job, Ithink is going away.
But again, I haven't had a realjob in a few years, so you might
want to ask somebody who has.

SPEAKER_02 (43:26):
No, I think jobs are getting more creative and
there's more nuance, and there'scertainly some nuance to the
role that I have now.
I mean, I I I I appreciate it.
Like, you know, my professionaljob is I I actually love my job
right now, right?

SPEAKER_00 (43:37):
Because you get to create authentic relationships
with your client base, right?

SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, and they kind of yeah, and I kind of get to
work in my own way a little bit,right?
Which I which I really like,right?
You know, I don't like being putinto systems, you know.
But, you know, which greatsegue, AI, you know, is gonna
take a lot of those thosesystems and those difficult
things.
Uh I mean, you know, we we we wetalk both pog positively and
negatively about AI, but I meanI think it's a great time to

(44:01):
talk about this now.
I mean, in your role, um, how doyou see I AI uh uh playing uh
into this future?

SPE (44:09):
SPEAKER_00
like everything, really.
I mean, the the future of work,I mean, it like first of all,
it's a it's a nuancedconversation because even like
so I use AI quite a bit, and Ialso recognize that I have to um
like you almost want to thinkabout how you can have like
carbon offset credits for theamount of energy that it takes

(44:31):
for you know for things toprocess.
Like I was at an event the otherday where they were talking
about how um uh the the serverfarms in the US Um uh have more
energy consumption than a smallEuropean country, and that small
European country is Germany.
Whoa, that's gross.
So and that's just the so it'slike you know, there's there's

(44:53):
like again, there's like there'sduality of things.

SP (44:55):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Yeah, it it's wild.
But and then with that, you'regetting, you know, are there
clean energy sources?
Are there are there differentways to kind of power?

SPEAKER_03 (45:02):
I don't think people realize that.
Like, I honestly don't thinkpeople realize how much more
energy it takes.
I think people just generallythink like it's all just the
internet, yeah, but it's not.
It's like you know, AI is usingten times the amount of energy
to make than a than a simpleGoogle search to make an image
of you on a unicorn, yeah, youknow, yeah.
Like it's using so much energy,and I think that is one of the

(45:26):
handful of reasons of why I amnot afraid of AI.
What do you uh what about you?
You you worried what whatworries you about AI, if
anything?

SPEAK (45:33):
SPEAKER_00
I'll start with the positivesand say that I actually have
like so AI has really helped medo things like sometimes I
really have to talk through mythoughts before I can get to a
cohesive answer, as many of yourlisteners can say as they're
skipping through to be like,what's he actually trying to say
here?
Um but sometimes before I talkto my team, before I I I I you

(45:54):
know, if I'm trying to deal witha complex thought, I'll talk
through it um uh with my chatGPT agent, um, and it'll help me
kind of cohesively condense whatit is I'm trying to say in a way
that I can communicate itclearly to my team or or to
whoever I'm working with, andthat really helps.
I think it it in that way ithelps improve our communication.
I think there's an opportunityfor for AI in many different

(46:16):
ways to be able to take a lot ofthe administrative functions
away from the work that we do sothat we can hold more space for
each other to actuallycommunicate authentically and
take some of those um some ofthe paperwork off of our plates
and whatnot, um, which I thinkis fantastic.
And that's where we are now.
Like, who knows we're gonna bein one month, let alone a year,
let alone 10 years.
Yeah.
So, I mean, what frightens me, Imean, I don't know, the Matrix?
Like, like, hey, well, you know,you know, like let's let's let's

(46:40):
use a segue, okay?
So let's let's thoughtexperiment.
So uh right now, server farms uhin the US use more consumption
use more energy than Germany.
Um, you know, in The Matrix,they figured out what a great
battery source was, right?

SPEAKER_02 (46:56):
What a great energy source, the human mind, yeah,
yeah, the humans, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
So so I I mean I I think we're all living through
this time of like wild and rapidchange.
Um, and and I think it'simportant for us to approach it
with curiosity, um, with like ahealthy dose of skepticism, but
also like I like I I feel I Ifeel you know, in the same way
that I take a whimsical approachto stress, suicide, and the

(47:20):
meaning of life.
I think you can also take awhimsical approach to all right,
so let's let's figure out likewhere's the good in this?
Because I think there's somepretty good stuff that can
happen with this, it's notnecessarily all doom and gloom.
Um, and uh, and I say that assomebody who couldn't code to
save his life.
So maybe we're way further alongand down the rabbit hole that I
might actually.

SPEAKER_02 (47:41):
I was reading this morning, Elon Musk's plan is to
build a million robots rightnow.
A million.
He just became a trillionaire.
I just became a trillionaire onthat 10-year plan.
Yeah, but like with the caveatof building a million robots,
yeah, human service robots.

SPEAKER_00 (47:53):
Like, what the like that's crazy.
I mean, I don't know.
What would you like?
Okay, so here's a question.
What so let's so take a moment.
You're a trillionaire.
What are you gonna build?

SPEA (48:04):
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like, get me, yeah, get me thethe if it I see.

S (48:10):
SPEAKER_03
Like, I don't thinktrillionaires should exist.
Yeah, so well, yeah, no, no.
If someone came to me and waslike, hey, you have you know
billions of dollars, what areyou gonna do?
It's like I'm gonna give most ofit away.
Yeah.
Like 90% of it.
I'm gonna make sure that I'mextremely, extremely good, and
then other than that, I'm justgonna be like extremely good.
Well, I mean, you're gonna beset for like generational wealth

(48:31):
that my grandkids are good orwhatever, all that stuff.
But I mean, in his world, Idon't know.
You need like a hundred milliondollars and you're good for the
rest of the day.
SPEAKER_02
almost never good enough, right?
Because once you get to anextremely good level, the
hustle.
It was like, yeah, yeah, thehustle, the hustle, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (48:48):
The fight of like I have to be the richest person on
the internet.

SP (48:50):
SPEAKER_02
I don't think I had a chance totell you about this yesterday
when we met, but um I I hadrecently used Chat GTP because I
saw it, I saw this online, itwasn't my own idea.
Um, did I say it right?
Chat GTP?
GPT, Chat GT GPT, because Andreakeeps calling me out saying it
wrong, eh?
She's like, You said it wronglike three times in your podcast
last week.
I was like, whoops.
SPEAKER_00

(49:13):
We're landing on GPT, we'regood.

S (49:14):
SPEAKER_02
But, anyways, you can ask, and II encourage anyone listening to
try this because it is supercool.
Oh, you told me with I did this,by the way.
Did you do it?
The tech question experiment.
Did you agree that was supercool?
It's very cool.
Okay, where the heck is it?

SPEAKER_03 (49:28):
I I have to go back and remember what I wrote down.

SPEAKER_02 (49:30):
And if you want to know of how much I use this
thing, it's just like there's abillion things here.
I can barely find what I didlast week on it.
Um, but uh I guess basically youyou ask uh you ask it to um ten
questions about yourself, yeah.
Uh one question at a time tokind of learn who you are, uh
like really kind of like deeplyinside.

(49:51):
Um I I'll put the exactdescription on the thing.
If anybody wants a message us.
But uh, but anyways, it asks youone question at a time.
One of them are in your tenquestions, by the way, because I
loved the question.
Um, can we do 10 questions atthe end of this show?
Uh uh so it really puts thingsin perspective at the end of
your life what's gonna be themost valuable to you.

(50:11):
And I mean, for me, long storyshort, it was like hopefully
Andrea would still be around.
Did it say hopefully?
I said hopefully.
Oh, okay.
I don't know what could happen.
I'm just hoping.
Yeah.
Uh uh, and you know, maybe acat, right?
You know, and other than that,I'm kind of good.
Like, I don't really want a lot.
Like, you know, I like uh Iwould like a little house, I
would like it to be comfortable,I'd like to be maybe in nature.

(50:33):
That's where I am now.
I mean, but there's not reallymuch more that I want or need
than I actually have at thisgiven moment, right?
I just probably you know want tohold on to that, right?

SPEAKER_00 (50:43):
How how cool is that though?

SPEAKER_02 (50:44):
Isn't that kind of cool?

S (50:45):
SPEAKER_00
Andrew's around.
Now that you've got GPT, GTPthing sorted, I think we're
gonna be good.
GPT, we're good to go.
Andrew has got no reason.
Um, but like what like in thatcase, like of course there's so
much like complexity and and andbias and energy consumption and
stuff that's coming coming fromthis.
But if that tool can help youjust take a moment, moment's

(51:08):
reflection to be like, I think Ihave what I need right now.
It gave me the whole northernstar by the end of it.
It was unbelievable.
And then you can have thatperspective where like hopefully
what I would challenge you on isto recognize that those answers
are just a reflection of yourthoughts, and you are not
dependent on the AI algorithm tobe able to answer the questions

(51:28):
for you, and instead, it'ssomething that is echoing back
the feelings that you have.

SPEAKER_02 (51:33):
I gotta give you the Northern Star that it gave me.
Because this is from all thethings that I wanted to have and
be and do and who I wanted tobe.
So I said it said to me, itsaid, uh and I just as well say
this to our listeners, because Imean, you know, I would really,
really encourage you to trythis, you know.
So it's in ten questions.
What could you ask me aboutmyself that even I don't know?

(51:54):
Ask me the questions one at atime without telling me the
reasons for the questions.
And then it does its thing andasks you ten randos.
Yeah.
And then uh so, anyways, gettingto the bottom of this, I I'm not
going to go into my all myanswers here, but the North Star
vision, or I'll I'll even boilit down to a North Star phrase,
it said kindness first, creationwithout fear, and connection

(52:15):
always.

SPEAKER_03 (52:16):
That's pretty sweet.
I didn't get a North Star.
I got an insight.
Ask it for a North Star rightnow.
Well, I'll I will start here,but the insight it says for my
insight from the questions isyou're someone whose life is
guided by love, reflection, andindependence.
You hold deep emotions andaspirations, yet sometimes
practical or self-focus focusactions are deferred.
There's a tension betweenhumility and self-restraint, and

(52:38):
the urge to fully express yourpassions and impact.
Uh, the lifeline isintentionality.
You may not always actimmediately, but your choices
are deeply aligned with whatmatters most to you
relationships, purpose, andemotional authenticity.
Yeah, yeah, you got like a wholehoroscope there.
Yeah, I did, yeah.

SP (52:55):
SPEAKER_00
But like in both of the in theNorth Star and in the the
insight that you just got, like,we've already talked about some
of those things, right?
Like you know that you defer.
You you know, you like to doservice to others, but you
sometimes defer what your own,like, but those are things that
have been covered.
So what a wonderful mirror toreflect back what it is that is

(53:18):
your essentially North Star,your insight, right?
So so in that way, if you know,if if if the tool can allow for
us to have like a uh uh uh uhrelatively fearless way to be
able to get to know ourselvesbetter, I think that's a good
thing, is it not?

S (53:35):
SPEAKER_02
I made a joke with or I wasusing AI for uh uh something
else that you know we'llhopefully be able to bring up
next year.
Um but uh anyways, the project Iwas using is I uh asked AI to be
sarcastic, give a sarcasticanswer to this gentleman who was
very critical of it, right?
And put what he said in aboutit, you know, kind of destroying

(53:57):
the earth and destroyinghumanity and all these horrible
things.
And I wanted to have like get akind of a humorous response from
the AI to see what it would sayback.
Um, long story short, basicallysaid, I'm a mirror, so all the
terrible things you see in meare you.
Jeez like and I was like, Whoa.
Well, I mean that's pretty it'spretty sharp, and it was it was
meant to be satirical.

(54:18):
Um it's like if you want to seea better image, you know, work
on yourself, right?
And uh I was like, I was like,that's pretty brutal.

SPEAKER_00 (54:25):
Um and insightful.
And insightful.
And you're burying the lead alittle bit because I've got
gifts for you guys that are veryaligned with what really well I
listened, I listened to uh toSerena.
So Sr Serena Haynes.

SP (54:41):
SPEAKER_02

SPEA (54:42):
SPEAKER_00

S (54:44):
SPEAKER_02
heard it, please.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:46):
Uh so so she's the best.
Uh she she she did uh TEDxArgyle with me.
Um she I had the uh unenviabletask of going right after
Serena.
Um so I will I walked out onstage, and the biggest laugh I
got was when I went on stage andI was like, I feel like the
cigarette after sex right now.
Inappropriate.
Um so anyway, needless to say, Iknow that she brought uh she

(55:08):
brought goodies, differentgoodies.
Oh yes.
Um I'm not I'm not gonna that'snot that's not what I'm
bringing.
But uh anyway, just a big fan.
But anyway, part of part of thatthat uh gift bag is very related
to that uh chat GPT snarkyanswer that I gave.

SPEAK (55:25):
SPEAKER_02
There we go, cool.
Oh, I think I know what it is.
I know what it is.
Maybe I'll guess before you meanthe gift thing.
Okay, cool.
Um, where were we now?
I don't know.
We're talking about stuff.
Okay, we're talking about chat.
We're here still at the uhOxford on Garrison.
Uh oh it's now Tuesday.

(55:46):
But but uh but yeah, so anyways,I like I I guess the theme of
what we've just been saying isis is all this AI stuff is is a
tool.
And use it um if you use it as atool for kindness, empathy,
trying to find wings to bringpeople together as opposed to as
what we're obviously all doingnow seems to be is going in

(56:06):
other directions, um, it'dprobably be quite a useful tool.
And if you use it as a tool totry to save humanity, then yeah,
work with it, you might actuallyget that result.

SPEAKER_00 (56:16):
And imagine if like so so use it as a tool to save
yourself and get to knowyourself.
Because what if that that same,you know, that same snarky
remark to that same gentleman inthat thought experiment that you
had, where what would you say tothe person who doesn't like AI
um see that as somebody who hasdifferent political views of you
than you.
Yeah.
What you don't like in them ishow entrenched they are in their

(56:39):
political views, or howunbending they are, or how
unwilling to change orcompromise or listen.
Right.
Like there's there's there'sthere's lessons in that that I
think we can really apply towhat we're living through every
day.
So that we Especially now,right?

S (56:51):
SPEAKER_02
contents, com comments one wayor the other.
Uh and that's what brings us sofar apart because we're seeing
people almost activelydiscriminate against others.
Either you're on the right andyou might not, you know, oh
you're not intelligent, orsomething very hurtful, right,
is often said about the rightand and to the left uh could be
sometimes racist, even right?

(57:12):
Like, you know, it's it's veryhurtful on both sides, right?

SPEAKER_00 (57:14):
So if we if we can find our like shared like
universal language and universalhumanity, many and if chat GPT
can play a little role in that,I think that's a good thing.
Yeah.

SP (57:27):
SPEAKER_02
Some optimism with Chat GPT.
GTT P GPT.
I'll never get a run.

SPEA (57:35):
SPEAKER_00
We tried.

S (57:37):
SPEAKER_02
Uh we got 10 questions.
Are you ready to get into that?
SPEAKER_00
SPEAKER_02

SPEA (57:42):
SPEAKER_03
had a lot here, but I justwanted to just let him uh talk a
little bit about your book.
So uh because yeah, and thenwe'll move into the book.
Well, I wrote a book.
You wrote a book?

SPEAKER_04 (57:52):
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.

SPEAK (57:52):
SPEAKER_03
Or you know, did AI write thatfor you?

S (57:56):
SPEAKER_00
Uh it was well, it was before mymy awareness of AI.
Um, I guess so.
Here's what I'd say.
I threatened for years to writea book.
Um, and uh I my I tell my kidsevery night, I love you, I trust
you, I'm proud of you.
And what I did was I decided toturn that phrase into a story
that I can tell my kids uh andthat maybe everybody can tell

(58:19):
their kids because I recognizethat not everybody gets to hear
that at night.

SPEAKER_03 (58:22):
Um it's kind of your like I love you 3000 version of
that.
I don't know if you're familiarwith Iron Man or whatever, like
if you watch the Marvel movies,but um I'm not familiar with I
Love You 3000, but okay that'sthat's the thing in Iron Man is
his that's what that's what IronMan is.
No, it wasn't Stan.
Well it was MCU.
So it's Iron like Tony Stark inthe uh when you know before he

(58:43):
died and all that stuff in theendgame or whatever.
That was what he said to hislike his daughter, or that's
what his he and his daughtershared with each other.
I love you three thousand.
There you go.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
So let me just it's my I Love You 3000.
Um so essentially, uh so I I soI wrote this book and it's and
it's uh it's a story about a dadwho puts his kids to bed, and
and they're like, Oh, I know youtell us this every night.
And then they start pushing backand they say, Well, what if I do
this?
Or what if I look like this, orwhat if I make this decision, or
what if this happens?
And and the answer is always,well, you know, those are things

(59:12):
that you do or say or look like.
That's not who you are.
I love you for who you are.
Um, and uh, and and so writingthe book was this like fantastic
experience.
Um, but uh uh and you can reallyyou can buy it anywhere and you
can you go to my website or youcan get it on Amazon or Indigo
or anywhere.
Um, but uh one of the coolestthings that I've done now is uh

(59:34):
and in like in every aspect ofmy life is when you go and you
do a book reading at the RonaldMcDonald House and you get to
sit down and you get to justhang out with some kids that
might have just come out oftreatment, yeah, and you get to
just insert some whimsy, insertsome silliness, insert some real

(59:57):
life away from all of thatnonsense, away from all the
noise, away from all the tubes,away from all the tests, and you
get to just see them be kids fora little bit.
Yeah, and you get to read themthis story that sometimes they
laugh and sometimes they'relike, oh, that's heartfelt.
Um, and then you get to seetheir kid, their parents see
their kids be kids.
Yeah, like that's cool.
Like I walked out of that uhwhen I when I was able to do

(01:00:20):
that at the Ronald McDonaldHouse, and I was like, this is
this is this is what life is allabout right now.
So this is kind of come to comefull circle.
I felt like when I left thatmoment, when I left that
reading, or when I left thelibrary in the valley or in
Quebec or wherever I was when Iwas doing a reading, where you
get to see a kid really kind ofsink into that message, yeah,
that's leading courageouslytoward love.
Amazing, and that feels so inline with like my heart, my

(01:00:42):
soul, my purpose.
I love that, man.
That's really cool.

SPE (01:00:45):
SPEAKER_02

SP (01:00:46):
SPEAKER_00
get it.
What about those colors though?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:51):
No, the colors are gone.
Um, all right, just like theleaves on the trees.
Okay, Matt, do you want me to?
To lead these off, or do youwant to go?
Start start with one.
Okay.

S (01:00:59):
SPEAKER_00
these are from ChatGPT?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:02):
These are mostly by me full disclosure.
I started with ChatGPT and Istarted to kind of tailor them,
and then by the end of the hour,they were pretty much all
rewritten.
Okay, perfect.
But started with J uh the thing.
Yeah.
Started AR.
Just say AR.
I just don't want to say itanymore.
I'm just saying.
Okay.
So your recent TED Talk waslargely about bridging divides

(01:01:25):
between people.
Through some things.
Oh I didn't write them verywell.
Your recent TED Talk was aboutbridging divides between people.
Um so do you butter your toastbefore or after cutting it?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:43):
SPEAKER_00

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:44):
SPEAKER_02

SP (01:01:46):
SPEAKER_03

SPEAKE (01:01:47):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAK (01:01:48):
SPEAKER_03
Who the hell butters the toastafter cutting it?
Oh, I d I butter it before.
Yeah, of course.
Somebody might.
There's probably some afters outthere.

S (01:01:56):
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't affect me at all.
It doesn't affect something thatI would do.
I think it's weird, but I mean,like, it doesn't.

SP (01:02:03):
SPEAKER_03
If you want to have crappytoast, go for it, right?
You know, so so we're not goingto hate on people that.

SPEA (01:02:09):
SPEAKER_02
like cut their toast first,Matt?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:14):
That's the dumbest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:16):
The whole point of this was to not get too angry at
the people that choose to cuttheir toast first, Matt.
You missed, you missed the pointI missed.
You missed the whole point ofthis exercise.
We're trying to bridge peopletogether.

SP (01:02:26):
SPEAKER_00
watching audio, Matt who freakedout about the toast is not Matt
the guest who did the TED talk.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:35):
Yeah, like no, like as I said, do what you wish.
Do as you wish.
People can live their lives.
Just you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:43):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:45):
I have a better way.
Great.
Great, great.

SPE (01:02:48):
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you're building thatbridge.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:52):
SPEAKER_03

SP (01:02:52):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:55):
Uh so if uh if your company, uh P4G, had a cartoon
mascot, what would it be?

SPE (01:03:02):
SPEAKER_00
Oh really?
Yep.
Uh, and it is a uh lovable blueum humanoid style.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:13):
I did not see this.
I was I was researching too.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:15):
Oh, it's deep in the archives.
I think we had to uh so his nameis Namu.
Okay.
What is it?
Which is human back backwards.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:23):
SPEAKER_03

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:24):
Um we'll see if we can dig it up in the archives.
Uh we realize that I mean a lotof the work that we do is in the
we, you know, we call humandynamics what like the industry
calls human resources, and werealize that having a mascot
that doesn't have any pants on,like not in a sexual weird way,
but you know, yeah, having ano-pants uh mascot as a as a as

(01:03:44):
as an animated character isprobably not something that is
you know, appropriate from thatperspective.
So it's anyway, Namu, thewonderful blue, cuddly, uh
humanoid style thing.

SPEAKER_ (01:03:56):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
You wrote a children's bookcalled I Love You, I Trust You,
I'm Proud of You.
How do you think you couldtranslate this message so it
could be used in today'sworkplace?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:09):
Um Segway, can I do a segue to that?
Because I think I I think thatuh there is always an
opportunity for um somebody's uhconfidence, some somebody's
contribution to come when theyfeel that sense of of of
self-love.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:27):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:27):
Um so as far as how it can be translated into
today's world, I know that Imean I the podcasts that I
listen to are around an hour, anhour and fifteen.
So maybe we won't get to theactual gift giving component,
but full disclosure, you're bothgetting books, you're both
getting stickers, and you'reboth getting mirrors.
Stickers.
I knew we were getting mirrors.
That's the thing I guess.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:48):
About the mirror to yourself thing to me yesterday.
Exactly.
So so is that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:52):
Stuart Smiley on S NL.
Insider information.
Stuart Smiley on Saturday NightLive.
Remember that?
I don't follow.
No, sorry.
Stuart Smiley.
Yeah, for sure it was S NL.
I remember Stuart Smiley.
Yeah, and that was Mad TV,wasn't it?
Maybe he was mad TV.
Anyway, he was the guy who usedto sit in the mirror and he'd be
like, You're good enough, you'regood.
Gosh darn it, you're gonnawhatever, right?

SP (01:05:11):
SPEAKER_00
Love You 3000 and and StuartSmiley.
Everything's recycled.
But to answer your questionabout the workplace, I think if
people can uh can find their ownvoice through uh
self-reflection, through lookingin the mirror, through saying, I
love you, I trust you, I'm proudof you.
Yeah, you know, your your yourcontributions are worthy.

(01:05:32):
Speak up in that meeting,provide that uh provide that
insight.
Um, you can contribute toculture change, to impact to
growth, all those kinds ofthings.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
I like it.
All right, so question numberfour uh pick one fictional
character from television orfilm that you would love to have
on your team and why?

(01:05:55):
SPEAKER_00

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:59):
Um Mickey Mouse is though, because he has no pants.
Or no, he does have pants, orDonald Duck.
Donald Duck has no pants in it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:07):
Um okay, so uh I'm torn between so probably because
of the mustache uh and becauseof the general vibe, like the
Ted Lasso comes to mind.
Um I talked about Ted Lasso uhso just having you know Jason
Sadeikis as Ted Lasso or JasonSedeikas as Jason Sadeakis would
be amazing.
Um I'm gonna go deep cut and I'mgonna say um Isaac from Sports

(01:06:33):
Night.
Look it up.
He's Isaac uh I don't know whothat is, man.
I don't know who that is.
Sports Night is this like isthis old Aaron Sorkin show that
was around in the 90s for threeor four episodes, um and or
sorry, three or four seasonsrather.
And uh and Isaac is like the oldwise uh like senior producer, uh
I guess he's the executivedirector of of this like sports

(01:06:54):
night, which is like you know,it's it's third to ESPN and
whoever else is as far as theprogram is concerned.
Um, and he's uh he's lived somuch uh life, and anyway, he's
fantastic.
So I'm gonna go Isaac fromSports Night.
Look it up.
Cool answer.
I'll look it up then.

SP (01:07:08):
SPEAKER_03
All right, buddy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
If AI takes half of the jobs inthe workforce, should AI get a
vacation?
SPEAKER_00
buttered first?
And I was gonna be like, Yougotta stuff because butter stuff
me.
Um if AI gets half the jobs inthe workforce, should AI get a

(01:07:32):
vacation?
Um, no.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:34):
SPEAKER_02
So, okay, interesting.
So you don't think we shouldtreat the robots as human
eventually?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:40):
Um, well, I didn't I didn't say that, and not in
that, not in that aspect.
Not in that aspect.
Not in that aspect.

SPEAK (01:07:47):
SPEAKER_02

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:53):
I love you, I trust you, I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:55):
Go for uh you'll go for a little ride.
0011, 0011.
You guys are great.
All right, no, that was that wasa lose-lose question.

SPEAKER_ (01:08:05):
SPEAKER_03
We like number six.
Yeah, go on.
Uh so when you imagine yourselfvery old, sitting somewhere
quietly, what do you see aroundyou?

SPEA (01:08:24):
SPEAKER_00
Um I see like kids and familyand and uh community just you
know um laughing, playing.
Um I see a lot of love.

(01:08:46):
I actually it's funny because Iwas I was talking about this
recently.
I actually hear more than I see,I think.
So I hear um like laughter, joy,and love and and insert what
that imagery is.
I like that.

SPEAKER (01:09:02):
SPEAKER_04

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:03):
It's a good podcast.
That's a good podcast.

SPEAKE (01:09:06):
SPEAKER_03
like a really big thing, and wetalked a little bit about sounds
with uh with Jenny.
Jenny, yeah, Jenny Bovart.
And like and like the soundsthat kind of like bring back
certain things.

S (01:09:16):
SPEAKER_02
of a bicycle.
So she's uh she's visuallyimpaired, right?
And she just started in thefirst show where she was uh
starring as a visually impaireduh albino, which like a role
like that had never existedbefore, and she started a show
called Pretty Blind, which waspretty cool.
And uh, anyways, yeah, she wasuh favorite sound was the sound
of a bicycle chain going as shewas wishing down the street.

SP (01:09:37):
SPEAKER_00
brings like it's like it itcreates the foundation upon
which you build your ownimagery, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:44):
A certain nostalgia of freedom or whatever, right?

SP (01:09:47):
SPEAKER_03
I've come to re like the reasonwhy that hits so much for me
with Jenny is because I've cometo realize with having a
four-year-old who we don't allowhim to have screens, um we've
come to kind of really realizethe power of just listening to
things.
So instead of getting TV, he hasYoda, which they tells little

(01:10:08):
Marvel stories or Spider-Manstories and stuff like that, or
we'll play Spider-Man stories inthe car, and he doesn't watch
these things, he listens tothem.
And what we've learned is thathe's he's just his imagination
goes crazy, right?
And he's paying attention waydeeper than you'd ever think.
Like I remember one night heasked me, or I said something,
he said, like, oh, thissuperhero is gonna like beat
this bad guy.
Because I said, Oh, who wouldwin?

(01:10:29):
This superhero, this bad guy.
I was and I was and he told methe superhero said, Why?
And he says, 'Cause he has acloaking power.
And I said, does athree-year-old, four-year-old
know what cloaking is?
But he's paying attention sodeeply.
And he and I said, What doesthat mean?
What do you think that means,bud?
And he told me.
He told me he did defined it.
And I was like, and then Iwalked in and talked to my wife,

(01:10:52):
and I said, You know whatcloaking is?
She's like, No, I'm like, thatdoesn't count.
You're French.
It doesn't count.
Let me second.
I called my mother, who's in her60s.
You know what cloaking is?
No?
What's that?
Right?
The power of sound.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:05):
First of all, okay.
Les Français savent des foisqu'est-ce que sometimes French
people know what cloaking is.
Okay, so I'll apologize to yourwife for that one.
But um, but I but becausebecause the imagination is so
limitless, right?
If you can create that, I mean,same thing for my kids, like
reading stories, listeningstories.
Like my my kids are the uh likeoldest kids in in in Canada.

(01:11:26):
They they listen to StuartMcPain vinyl cafe stories and
they love them.
And it just like creates yourown imagery, right?
It create like you're you're youhave limitless capacity for
imagination.

SP (01:11:37):
SPEAKER_03
how it can like reset thingslike that.
I I learned through COVID thatboredom is a privilege.
Yeah, yeah.
Great point.
Awesome.
Me or you, uh we're on seven, soit's you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:48):
SPEAKER_02
Finish this sentence.
A truly inclusive workplacewould finally have belonging.
Oh, belonging.
That was quick.
That was very quick, and not ahumorous answer I was hoping
for.

unknown (01:12:00):
unknown

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:01):
SPEAKER_02
Unlimited sandwiches.
I'd be like, unbuttered andbuttered, halves of toast, is
that it?

SPEAKER_ (01:12:10):
SPEAKER_00
No, but belonging comes up,yeah.
Belonging comes up a lot.
It's the opposite of fit.
I mean, uh, like we talk aboutit, Brennan Brown talks about
it, everybody talks about it.
Um, but if you truly feel likeyou belong, you truly feel
accepted as a human, um, it'sbeing seen and heard.
Cool.
Love that.
Love the answer.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:24):
Okay, go ahead, man.

SPEAK (01:12:25):
SPEAKER_03
So uh where do you imaginehumanity will be a century from
now?

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:32):
Oh where will it be?
I think it's gonna be in abetter place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I really do.
I think uh I I think we're we'realways learning, growing,
evolving, um, and challengingourselves.

(01:12:54):
Um, I think that systems andstructures will very likely be
different.
Um, you know, I've got my ownthoughts on capitalism that is
you know shared in in a lot ofdifferent writings out there,
but I think that uh what we'rerecognizing is that um treating
each other kindly, um you know,kindness comes up again, right?
Um if if if if we're able torecognize that being there for

(01:13:16):
each other throughcollaboration, through kindness,
um is what's what's mostimportant for us, then maybe um
creating or or um allowing forsystems that previously existed
to re-emerge um would be cool.
So I think it's gonna be in abetter place.

SPEAKE (01:13:31):
SPEAKER_03
I I I I kind of think the same.
I think we're in a point ofmaybe that's just my optimism,
but I think we're at a point nowwhere just we're in like the
rough patch before things willget a lot better.

S (01:13:46):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:47):
SPEAKER_03
I think it's starting to, Ithink that tide is starting to
turn a little bit already.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:52):
Well, can so I'm I'm so like No no, we gotta wait.
So so uh like what one of thethings that I try to remind
myself of is I was watchingSeinfeld the other day, and
there was this whole episodearound uh around this answering
machine.
And you know how they it goes tobelieve it or not, George.
It actually wasn't no, it was adifferent episode about our
answering machine.
Oh, really?
For those of you listening athome who are under the age of

(01:14:14):
25, an answering machine wassomething that was connected to
your home phone, which was whyyou would go like this.
And uh so what was uh what wasso fascinating about it was he
did the stand-up bit and he wastalking about the sense of
adrenaline that you get when youwalk in the door and you see the
red light flashing on youranswering machine.
Right.
And oftentimes you have messagesfrom people who don't actually
want to talk to you, they justwant to let you know that they

(01:14:35):
were calling and they don't wantto, and then and then you know
the joke goes on from there.
But I realized that that's kindof the rush that you get from a
like on social media, and andand it's it's a it's a similar
thing where it's a similar likeperipheral relationship where
you get that adrenaline rush,and you know, uh so the reason I
bring that up is to say that Idon't know how rough the patch

(01:14:56):
is now compared to when thatjoke was written in the 90s,
compared to what was happeningin the 70s.
Yeah, yeah.
Like I don't necessarily thinkit like I think there's so much
that's going wrong in this inthe world right now that we can
see, but there's also alsothere's a bunch of shit that was
going wrong in the 90s and andpreviously.
That's true.
There is rapid change.
Yeah, yeah.

(01:15:16):
But I I I just I find greatsolace in that to be like, you
know what, maybe we aren't justlike we're we're not like the
first first ones to to take astep on the moon.
Like maybe maybe we're not asunique from that perspective.
Maybe there is a little bit ofhistory not repeating but
rhyming.

SPE (01:15:32):
SPEAKER_02
Uh, because it's November andyou have a great mustache, you
truly do.
Okay.
What what's one good practiceyou'd like to share about
mustache hygiene?

SPEA (01:15:47):
SPEAKER_00
Why German keeps coming up?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:52):
German face cream.

SPE (01:15:53):
SPEAKER_00
so W-E-L-D-A.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:58):
SPEAKER_01

S (01:15:58):
SPEAKER_00
So I get really dry in mymustache.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:03):
SPEAKER_04

SPEAKER_ (01:16:03):
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that's normal,yeah.
And uh, and so I use thismoisturizer called Velda.
Um and uh and it's fantastic.
It kind of smells a little bitlike grapefruit, I've been told.
Okay.
Um so and it's and it's and hey,you know what?
You can you can you canmoisturize and have a mustache
and and and still be a dude.
Um nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely.

(01:16:23):
You gotta be careful because italso is like uh it's a thing
about yay big.
Um, and I may or may not havehad a sleepover uh with my
nephews when they were over, andthey may or may not have
commented on how bad ourtoothpaste tasted, and they may
or may not have used thetoothpaste uh slash face case.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:40):
Yeah, so that's all does it taste like crepefruit?

SPEA (01:16:44):
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I'm so sorry for tellingthat story on a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:51):
Question number 10.
Uh, so band or artists.
Uh which band or artist wouldyou love to see in concert the
most, dead or alive?

SP (01:17:02):
SPEAKER_00
Uh, we were talking yesterdayabout Spotify and about how the
like I'm the same way withregards to music all over um the
spectrum.
Um I've gotten to see somereally cool bands.
Like, I like one of the coolestexperiences I got to see was um

(01:17:24):
um was uh The wall.
Uh and it and it's it was just awonderful experience.
So I I've gotten to see somereally big things, Peter Gabriel
and all kinds of like big bandsand stuff.
I'd love to see Coldplay, I'dlove to to like experience
something big like that, but I'mgonna bring it down to like the
most simplest thing, and I'mgonna say like a 1A and 1B.

(01:17:45):
Um 1A, John Batiste.
Okay, one B, Tom Waits.
Oh man, Tom Waits.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:52):
I'm a big Tom Waits fan.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:54):
In like a dingy jazz club bar, um along for the ride.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:02):
I think I'm more of a Tom Waits fan than a Tom Waits
music fan.
Oh, really?
I just the guy himself was justa character.
Oh man.
And every interview I ever sawwith him, I'm just kind of like,
man, that guy.
I would like to spend one nightwith that guy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:18):
Have you ever seen The Imaginarium of Dr.
Parnassus?
No, I haven't.
Oh my god.
So he's been other stuff.
He plays the devil.
Really?
So that was that was um uh soyou're you're a comic book guy.
So that was Heath Ledger's lastmovie.
Heath Ledger died making thatmovie, and uh, and they rewrote
the script and they brought inlike Colin Farrell and Jude Law

(01:18:40):
and stuff like that.
Like all these differentmirrored versions of and Tom
Waits plays the devil, which islike, of course, Tom Waits plays
the devil.
Yeah, and it's just it's it's atrip, it's great.
Uh we're heading into a longweekend, so maybe that's what
I'll be uh watching with Meganthis weekend.

SPEAK (01:18:57):
SPEAKER_01

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:57):
Great answers, man.
Awesome.
Well, that concludes our 10questions.
You did a great job.
That's the hardest part's over.
We have one last thing.
We just like to call it the lastcall.
So we ask every guest thisquestion what's one piece of
advice you were given in yourlifetime that you just like to
share with our listeners today?

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:15):
I already use that hands if helping thing for my
mom.
Um okay.
I'm gonna go with um uh luckyenough to have stumbled upon uh
a mentor, and uh she came in andspoke with our uh with myself

(01:19:41):
and our team a few years ago,and she said um she said that
she's looking around and shesaid, I see a lot of wide open
hearts in this room and a lot ofpeople who want to do really
good.
And what you need to remember isthat wide open hearts need big
fucking fences.

(01:20:02):
Whoa.
All right, I was not expectingthat quote from you, dude.
And that that that reallyresonated with me because I
recognize that some similar toyou and your and your AI agent,
um, that oftentimes you can youknow you can give so much that
you give yourself away, and youneed to recognize that you need
to love yourself and build thosefences to be able to protect

(01:20:24):
yourself in order to be yourbest self.

SPE (01:20:27):
SPEAKER_01

SPEA (01:20:28):
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
Thank you so much for having uha beverage with us and uh
hanging out.
Anything you want to just kindof plug for the last minute?

SP (01:20:37):
SPEAKER_00
to say that.
No, no, you don't.
This is like a hot ones thing.
Yeah, um, I just want to saythank you so much for doing what
you're doing, for being able tohave conversations with folks
and allow for them to have theirvoices heard, because I think
that's the best thing that wecan do.
It's what I strive to do in lifethrough work, through P4G, um,
through the book.

(01:20:57):
Um, watch the TED Talk, findsomething that inspires you.
Um, and uh, and and here's whatI'll plug.
If you made it to this far inthe episode, reach out to
somebody in the next hour ortwo.
Just say, hey, thinking aboutyou.
Cheers.
Yeah.

SPE (01:21:11):
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much.
Awesome episode.

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Matt Thomson - Love trust and admiration - How to raise our kids and foster good company culture

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Matt Thomson - Love trust and admiration - How to raise our kids and foster good company culture