November 12, 2025 • 25 mins
Want a culture where people speak up, solve problems, and actually enjoy working together? We sit down with Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller, TEDx speaker, EQ coach, and author of The Empathetic Leader, to show how empathy shifts teams from fear and friction to trust and momentum. Practical empathy that leaders can apply now to spark innovation, raise engagement, and grow profit.
Melissa shares a striking turnaround story: a mid-level director inherits a divided team with lagging engagement and chooses a simple route—show up daily, listen closely, and be human. Within weeks, ideas surface, workflows improve, and the profit needle finally moves. This isn’t about lowering standards; it’s about understanding context so you can use the right emotional intelligence tool at the right time.
Welcome to the Agency for Change podcast.
Connect with Melissa and EQ via Empathy at:
· Website – http://eqviaempathy.com/
· Get Melissa’s book, The Empathetic Leader: https://eqviaempathy.com/books/
· Get a free chapter of the book: http://eq-via-empathy.kit.com/6f8715f3c2
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (00:00):
Empathy is a practice, not a
performance.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from Kid Club
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunity.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:31):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lynn Weineman,president and chief strategist
at KidGlove.
Today's guest is on a missionto transform the way we all
think about leadership.
Dr.
Melissa Robinson Weinmiller isa TEDx speaker, she's an EQ
(00:51):
coach, and she's the author of abook called The Empathetic
Leader.
She has more than 20 years ofcross-industry experience where
she's helping leaders buildemotionally intelligent cultures
that not only feel better,here's the key, they perform
better.
She is here to talk to us aboutwhy empathy isn't just a soft
(01:13):
skill, it is the key to drivingreal results.
Dr.
Robinson Wine Miller, I cannotwait to dive into this topic
with you.
Welcome to the podcast.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (01:26):
Thank you so much for having me,
Lynn.
I mean, since we are the winewomen, right?
I love that.
Wine and the wine miller in thesame place.
Lyn Wineman (01:34):
This is exciting.
It is exciting.
And can I ask your permissionfor something?
Would it be okay since you andI are somewhat friendly?
Could I call you Melissathroughout this?
Yes, you can.
All right.
I want to honor that titlebecause I know how much work
goes into it and I know how howsmart and knowledgeable you are.
And I cannot wait to get intothis conversation.
(01:57):
I'd love to start by justhaving you tell us more about
your work and EQ via empathy.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (02:05):
You bet.
So I actually came to this umthrough a lot of personal
experience, through seeing someof the way leadership maybe
didn't empathize and connect andunderstand with their people
like they could have, and howthey were losing profit and
productivity innovation becauseof it.
I mean, that's that's reallythe crux of it, is they were
(02:25):
losing out because of what theyweren't doing.
Yeah.
And I had done some consultingin healthcare with my husband
before this.
And, you know, there was, I wasa musician for a long time.
I had seen it in that field,and it was just kind of like
there, there's a pattern here.
There's something that I needto look at.
So that's when I started kindof digging in and trying to
figure out how I could make thissomething that was skills-based
(02:48):
instead of just kind of thisfluffy puppies and rainbows
empathy kind of thing.
Lyn Wineman (02:53):
Okay, I love that you said that because I do think
sometimes that's what peoplethink.
And I feel like I've been inbusiness for quite a long time.
I got my start in the late 80sand early 90s.
I'm gonna date myself there.
But I was taught as a woman inbusiness to be tough, to be
smart, to be in control.
(03:15):
I worked very hard to do all ofthose things.
I think for 20 years, Iprobably didn't wear pink.
I didn't talk about my family.
I tried as hard as I could toespouse the opposite of empathy.
And I'm so glad that at thispoint in time, I get to talk to
(03:35):
leaders like you who are saying,you know what's important in
business?
Empathy and love.
And so I really love, because Iknow you have studied this
topic quite a lot and it's thesubject of your book, but why is
it so important to bringempathy into leadership at this
point in time?
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (03:56):
Because at the end of the day, all
organizations are about people,whether it's your employees,
whether it's your customers,whether it's your board,
whoever.
And what empathy really isabout more than feeling is
understanding and connection.
So if you really want to havean organization that's
supercharged for the future,connecting with your best
(04:17):
resource, which is people, iswhat's going to do that.
Lyn Wineman (04:20):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (04:20):
And the cool thing is, is you can
be tough, you can be, you know,driven, you can be intelligent
and still have empathy.
That's a myth that you can't.
Lyn Wineman (04:29):
So I mean, not that you bought into it, but some
people that's really that'sreally important because you
kind of think sometimes, and I'msure that I have been fooled by
that as well.
It's got to be an either or,but you're right.
Those those characteristics arenot mutually exclusive.
(04:51):
You can be empathetic and toughand smart, which, which I know
that you are, are those thingsas well.
So yeah.
Now, now, now now I know betterthan that.
So, so I'm really curious thenin your work, what are some ways
you've seen emotionallyintelligent leadership transform
(05:12):
organizations?
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (05:16):
Just with that connection, that
personal connection, I mean, itcan change culture.
It can change, it actually canlead to profit productivity and
innovation.
Lyn Wineman (05:25):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (05:25):
So let me give you an example of a
director that I was working withbecause I really like those
middle positions.
Yeah.
Because I get to lead both upand down.
Lyn Wineman (05:34):
Wow.
And they are in a toughposition too, I think.
Those middle positions, middlemanagers, that can be such a
lonely place.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (05:43):
Yes, it absolutely can, which is all
the more a reason whyconnection and understanding,
you know, which is what empathyis, really helps them out.
So I was working with thisdirector, and of course they're
like, well, come in and changeour culture.
Never mind that the culture wascoming down from the top, and
they're expecting him to changeit in the middle.
But, you know, the employeeengagement scores were terrible.
(06:04):
The department he was takingover, there'd been a lot of
friction.
There was some outlying um bitsof it that just had never felt
as part of it.
And so he's he's looking at meand he's like, Okay, what do I
need to do for this?
I'm like, you've got to connectwith your people, which means
they've got to know your actualhuman being that lives and
breathes and walks around.
So I want you to actually goout and see and be seen every
(06:25):
single day.
And I don't mean that you haveto go and do three-hour coffee
clutch, you just need to knowwho your people are and let them
know that you're someone thatcan be known, can be liked, and
can be trusted.
And he did.
And over a period of time, hispeople started coming to him.
And it didn't take very long,you know, because they had ideas
(06:47):
for better efficiencies becausethey live in it every single
day.
Lyn Wineman (06:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (06:53):
They've had these ideas for years and
nobody was listening.
But all of a sudden they hadsomeone that they knew and they
kind of liked, or at least theydidn't dislike.
Yeah, yeah, they were growingto trust.
So they bring him theseefficiencies, and you know, to
be able to create a bettercenter where he was at, to be
able to just clean up somelong-standing problems to do
that sort of thing.
(07:14):
And the next thing you know,these become innovations, right?
Through these innovations,because they're able to do their
job better, their productivitygoes up.
Plus, they feel they're beingheard, they feel they're being
understood, they're feeling likepart of a team.
It's helping with the loyalty,it's cleaning up some of the
goodwill issues that had beengoing on forever.
(07:35):
And it started to instill thisculture, even at the middle,
that this is what they do.
They listen and they work as ateam.
Lyn Wineman (07:43):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (07:44):
Next thing you know, the profit for
his center went up for the firsttime in years.
And now his higher-ups arelooking at him and going, How
did you do that?
Your employee engagement scoreswent from like the 50s to the
90s.
We've never seen it.
How did you do that?
Lyn Wineman (07:59):
Wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (07:59):
Yeah.
You know, and it was just amatter of actually connecting
with his people on a humanlevel.
That's all it took.
Lyn Wineman (08:06):
Wow.
Why is it so hard for humans tobe human, Melissa?
Like that is the question thatcomes to mind.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (08:17):
I I don't have an answer for that.
I don't know.
Because I have the sameresponse.
I'm like, why is this?
We're just we're asking you todo what humans do.
Lyn Wineman (08:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
As you were giving thatexample, and that is just such a
great example.
I heard you say three things,and then I heard you actually
repeat them in the storytelling.
And I'm curious if there's, youknow, any connection here.
When we read your book, will weread more about this?
But you said you advised thisleader to get out, walk around
(08:51):
so he could become known, becomeliked, and become trusted.
I'm guessing those are reallyimportant parts of the formula,
the connection here.
Can you can you tell us more?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (09:04):
Yeah.
So when you think about thesuper top leaders, right?
And and not necessarily becauseit's their fault, but they're
people that are usually closedup in their office.
Yeah.
That they don't get out.
Lyn Wineman (09:15):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (09:16):
That their people have no idea who
they are.
So they're just like a name.
And if they ever do come out oftheir office, everybody thinks
something's wrong.
Lyn Wineman (09:23):
Yeah, right, right.
Melissa Robinson-Wine (09:25):
Someone's getting fired.
Yeah, what's what's she doinghere?
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
But they're missing theopportunity for people to
actually get to know them humanto human.
So in our human brains, we justsee them as this figurehead
instead of being someone thatnot only we can give empathy to,
but can return it.
Yeah.
Because empathy, when it'sworking best, goes in both
(09:48):
directions.
Lyn Wineman (09:49):
Both directions.
All right.
Since you said that about bothdirections, there's another
question that I've rattling inaround in my head.
Do you have any thoughts onempathy towards self?
Oh, absolutely.
Self-empathy.
Yeah, right.
Like that's sometimes that'sthe hardest one.
When I interact with somebodywho's like very harsh and
(10:11):
outwardly judgmental, I oftenthink, wow, they must be, they
must really be hard onthemselves as well.
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (10:22):
Yeah.
And that's exactly what I seewith the leaders I work with
too.
Because usually they're veryambitious.
They're very highlyself-actualized.
They're driven.
I mean, these are these arepeople that are gunners.
They know what they want andthey know how to get there.
But in the process, they oftenlose track of themselves, which
is why leaders burn out at like35%.
You know, you end up withaddiction issues, you end up
(10:45):
with family issues, all of thisstuff.
And it's because they don'tknow how to show empathy for
themselves first.
Plus, if you can't show it foryourself, how are you going to
show it for anybody else?
Lyn Wineman (10:56):
Yeah.
Wow, that is that is goodstuff.
So, what do you say to peoplewho ask you or challenge you on
whether um having empathy,acting with empathy is actually
practical, right?
I mean, sometimes there is thatbelief that, you know, showing
(11:16):
empathy is going to mean thatyou get walked all over or it's
going to be expensive to showempathy, right?
Because maybe you're going to,I don't know, make some
adaptations or give people, youknow, more time off.
Or I don't know.
I'm just going through in myhead what all of those
objections towards practicalempathy might be.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (11:39):
So there was an Ernst ⁇ Young
survey that happened right afterthe end of the pandemic.
And it was specifically lookingat the great resignation.
And they surveyed leaders, theysurveyed employees, they
surveyed all of it.
And what they found was thatthe leaders that could actively
and effectively use empathyraised their productivity by
(12:01):
87%, their innovation by 86%,and their profit by 84%.
And this is not Melissa'sopinion.
This is Ernst and Young, whohave had their own problems in
the last couple of years, butall the same.
Lyn Wineman (12:16):
Right.
That's amazing.
I mean, because that numberimproving by 87%, 86%, 84%.
I mean, that's almost doubling,right?
And I think a lot of us wouldwalk the desert for a 20%
improvement, right?
And so just to know, likehaving understanding of people
(12:38):
and doing your three things tobe known, be liked, and trusted,
that can give you that kind ofresults.
Amazing.
I'm so happy that this surveyand this research and your work
is coming to light.
And I'm curious, Melissa, howdoes someone like you become an
(13:01):
empathy and EQ expert?
Right.
Like I'm really curious.
You mentioned you worked withyour husband, you were in
healthcare consulting, but youknow, that's a pretty big jump
to really like saying, I amgonna make this the focus of
what I'm doing.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (13:18):
So it actually started out before
then.
Okay.
I I was a musician, I was aFrench horizont.
Oh, I love that.
Oh, I got to tour in Rome, Igot to play with people like Ray
Charles and MannheimSteamroller, and these aren't
people that were in my orbit.
Yeah, those are big names.
We all know those names.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, butunfortunately, being a gigging
(13:41):
musician, I'm also hopelesslyaddicted to food, shelter, and
clothing.
So I knew that if I wanted tohave benefits and that kind of
thing, I was gonna have to getmy doctorate and probably be a
professor.
And that's what I did.
And I found a French hornprofessorship and I got it.
And I went out there and withinmy first semester.
Um, so like within months ofbeing there, I was assaulted by
(14:04):
one of my colleagues.
Lyn Wineman (14:05):
Oh wow.
I'm sorry.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (14:07):
Wow.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And the more I talk about this,actually, the more people come
forward and they go, Yeah, I hadstuff like that happen to me
too in a toxic workplace.
Lyn Wineman (14:16):
Wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (14:16):
And that's really what it comes
down to is this place was sosystemically broken that it was
completely toxic.
And I ended up losing my careerover it.
And I'm not the only one.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of people end upgoing through this.
The problem with being a Frenchhorn player is I got out kind
of in my mid-40s, and it's like,now what do I do?
I don't really know.
Lyn Wineman (14:37):
You probably weren't set for retirement on
the pay that you made as aFrench horn player, even though
you were very good and traveledwith big acts.
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (14:47):
Yeah.
No, it was it was fantastic,but I mean, you know, starving
musician is is what it is.
Yeah.
So I just but the thing is, isI lost a career I dedicated my
life to, and I just couldn't letit go.
I just kept coming back to whatwas the problem.
What was so broken that theywere fine taking this stuff
(15:08):
away, that they were finebreaking people and just leaving
them.
And I kept coming back to thislack of connection, which just
kept coming back to empathy.
And then after that, I wasdoing consulting with my
husband, and I was seeing thesame things over and over again,
you know, that that people werefine just not connecting and
(15:28):
not understanding and allowingthese horrible toxic situations
to just be because they didn'teven know how to begin
addressing it.
It was so huge, you know, evenif it's a small organization,
it's such a looming problem ofwhat do I do with this, assuming
they want to do anything aboutit at all.
Lyn Wineman (15:45):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (15:46):
So that's what got me on the track
of empathy.
And I started digging aroundand looking for a leadership
program, and I found the onethere at Creighton.
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (15:55):
Creighton is not far.
I'm based.
Most of you know I'm based inNebraska.
Kid Glove has an office inOmaha where Creighton is just a
wonderful school, a wonderfulmedical center, a great
community.
Yeah.
That's great.
You know, I'm really interestedas you talk about this in your
journey, um, because the musicindustry is really kind of known
(16:20):
for chewing people up andspitting them out.
I too work in an industryadvertising that, you know, if
you watch a lot of the shows onadvertising, known for chewing
people up and spitting them out.
And that's why our brand, KidGlove, is all about treating
people with kid gloves.
We wanted from our foundationto be the kind of place that
(16:42):
treats both people and brandswith great care.
So at the time we were foundedin 2010, I didn't really have
the words empathy.
I mean, I knew what the wordempathy meant, but we weren't
talking about empathy inbusiness at the time.
Just naming ourselves Kid Glovewas a little bit out there, but
I feel somewhat vindicated inthat, you know, what we thought
(17:05):
at the time is really coming tofruition.
And I think the world is goingto be a much better place as we
continue to do this work.
And so part of doing this workis let's look at this book that
you wrote.
It's a it's a fairly new book,The Empathetic Leader.
Can you tell us about it andwhat you hope the people who
(17:26):
read it will take away?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (17:28):
So I kind of wrote it like a
manual, you know, because weactually talk about the book
specifically zeroes in on howyou use empathy to connect with
emotional intelligence.
Lyn Wineman (17:38):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (17:39):
Because the first article on emotional
intelligence came out in 1990.
And then Daniel Goldman'sreally 95.
Lyn Wineman (17:46):
Wow.
It just wasn't like it wasn'tlike a big thing, right?
Like I remember the concepts ofleadership by walking around
and who moved my cheese was kindof a big one.
I mean, I think PatrickLencioni and the five
dysfunctions of a team was kindof becoming of age at that time,
but empathy was a little bit, alittle bit quieter.
(18:07):
It was a little bit morewoo-woo at the time, right?
Whereas I feel like it's comingmainstream now.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (18:13):
Well, it's always been lumped in with
emotional intelligence.
Ah, yeah.
You know, whereas I reallythink it has to come first.
I think you've got tounderstand and connect.
Because if you think ofemotional intelligence as a big
tool bag, right?
You got communication andmotivation, and you've got
hammers and saws and chisels andall this stuff in this tool
bag.
If you don't connect andunderstand with your people
(18:35):
first, you don't know when youreach into that bag if you want
a saw or a left-handedscrewdriver.
Announcer (18:41):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (18:42):
Yeah.
I, you know, I really think wehave to start with empathy.
And I think that may be wheresome of the disconnect is.
Lyn Wineman (18:48):
It's foundational, right?
If you jump straight to some ofthe other strategies, some of
the other tools without theunderstanding.
That makes so much sense,Melissa.
Like, I don't know if you couldsee or feel a light bulb going
off on top of my head, but it'slike, oh, that that what you
just said there connects thedots for me.
(19:10):
So where can we get this book?
Is it on Amazon?
Is it on your website?
Where can we find it?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (19:18):
You can get it on Amazon or Barnes
and Noble or any of the onlinereal tellers.
And right now we have ahardcover, a soft cover, and
Kindle.
And there will be an audiobookcoming out here, hopefully in
the next month or so.
Lyn Wineman (19:31):
Awesome.
You and I will have to talkbecause our book at Kid Glove,
Untangling Spaghetti, a brandingfable, that audiobook is
underway.
And I love audiobooks, so Ifeel bad that it's not out there
yet.
But audiobooks take a lot oftime to do, don't they?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (19:46):
Yeah, they do.
Lyn Wineman (19:47):
Are you are you and you're reading it yourself?
Yes.
I love an author-red audiobook.
So good for you.
We'll keep an eye out for that.
And we'll make sure to getlinks to that book in the show
notes.
So, Melissa, I do want to askyou a question.
I mentioned, and a lot ofpeople know, Kid Glove does a
lot of work in the brandingspace.
(20:08):
So I'm always curious aboutpeople's brands.
And I love that you have theword empathy right in your brand
name.
What does that EQ via empathybrand name mean to you?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (20:24):
So, what it means, it goes along
with the book that you'relooking at emotional
intelligence through the lens ofempathy.
So, you know, that's the EQ,because EQ is short for
emotional intelligence.
EQ via empathy.
Emotional intelligence has seenthrough the lens of empathy,
but a whole lot shorter.
Lyn Wineman (20:42):
All right.
I have a merchandising idea foryou.
I think empathy goggles shouldbe next on your list once that
audio book is done.
Empathy goggles, right?
I like that.
All right.
We'll see.
We'll see.
What other than empathygoggles?
What's on the horizon for youand EQ via empathy?
So I've already started on booktwo.
(21:03):
Wow.
I tell you what, so many peopleI know write that first book
and go, never again.
And you have already started.
Wow.
Well, tell us more.
What should we be looking outfor?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:16):
Well, the second one I want to
actually be for anybody.
This is going to be aboutempathy in daily life, empathy
with how people experience it,you know?
Yeah.
Rather than just targetingleaders, this one's going to be
pretty much for anybody.
Lyn Wineman (21:28):
So beautiful.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:30):
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (21:30):
I love it.
So for someone who wants tobring more empathy into the way
they lead, people who arelistening, what's one practical
first step you can recommend forthem?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:41):
Start with self-empathy.
Lyn Wineman (21:44):
Oh.
I love that.
Probably the hardest, too,right?
Yes.
Start with self-empathy.
I love it.
So for our listeners who arelistening, going to get excited
or are excited about this,actually, let me, this is a good
place for me too.
That was a bad start to thatquestion.
So, Melissa, for everyone who'sbeen listening who's really
(22:08):
excited about learning more, inaddition to the links to the
book, where can they mo findmore information about you and
EQ via empathy?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (22:19):
You can catch me at my website,
which is eqviaempathy.com.
Nice.
And yeah, there is a link forthe book.
And if you sign up for mynewsletter, I will send you a
free chapter of the book so youcan take a look and see what's
actually in there, you know, sothat you kind of you kind of
have an appetizer.
Lyn Wineman (22:36):
I love it.
My copy of the book is is inroute on the way, but I'm
definitely gonna go sign up forthat.
And we'll have that link in theshow notes as well.
All right, I'm gonna ask you afun question, and I'm sure as an
author, as a TEDx speaker, youare gonna have a great answer
for this.
But our listeners know I aminspired by motivational quotes.
(23:00):
And I would like an originalquote from you to inspire our
listeners.
So this is coming from themusician.
Oh that empathy is a practice,not a performance.
Wow, tell me more.
I think I know what you mean bythat, but I'd love to go
deeper.
It's such a beautiful quote.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (23:21):
So practice you do every day, every
day, every day.
If you're a performingmusician, I mean hours, every
day.
Even when you think you've gotit, you still go back and
practice it more.
And that's exactly what empathyis.
It's something you you do as askill every day and every day.
Performance is something you doone time and then you say,
okay, that's it.
And that's that's not, youdon't pull empathy out at the
(23:43):
once-a-year, you know, allorganization meeting and then
say you're done with it.
You practice it every day,every day.
Lyn Wineman (23:50):
Wow.
Empathy is a practice, not aperformance.
I've said this before, but Ifeel like I'd really love that
as a poster right behind myshoulder here.
Someday I'm gonna have my wholeoffice just wallpapered with
quote posters from this podcast.
But that is that is one of myfavorites.
So, Melissa, as we wrap up thisgreat conversation today, I
(24:14):
always have so much fun when Italk to you.
What is the most importantthing you would like our
listeners to remember about thiswork that you're doing?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (24:24):
I think the biggest thing,
especially on a personal level,is to remember that empathy and
judgment cannot exist in thesame space.
Lyn Wineman (24:33):
Oh, wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (24:35):
So if you're feeling judgment for
yourself, you're not gonna feelself-empathy.
If you're feeling judgment forsomeone else, you're not gonna
be able to give them empathy.
And I think that's a reallyimportant sign to just be aware
of.
Lyn Wineman (24:47):
Wow.
If I put your quote, empathy isa practice, not a performance,
uh behind me on up on myshoulder or on the wall behind
my shoulder.
I think I want to put thatempathy and judgment cannot
coexist, like right in front ofmy face here.
That is such good, good, goodadvice, practical advice.
(25:08):
Melissa, I'm sad that this iscoming to an end.
I'm gonna say that I fullybelieve the world needs more
people like you, more firms likeEQ via empathy.
And I just appreciate youtaking time to talk with us
today.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (25:26):
Well, thank you so much for having
me.
And I'm so excited with KidGlove that you're doing the same
thing with the marketingindustry.
Because if all of us keep doingit in our respective places,
people are gonna have to notice.
Lyn Wineman (25:39):
Yeah, they're gonna have to notice.
We are not going quietly intothe background, are we?
All right.
Melissa, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
This was such a pleasure, Lynn.
Announcer (25:54):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitkidglove.com at kidglov.com to
get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, feature to
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
(26:15):
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Empathy is a practice, not a
performance.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from Kid Club
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunity.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:31):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lynn Weineman,president and chief strategist
at KidGlove.
Today's guest is on a missionto transform the way we all
think about leadership.
Dr.
Melissa Robinson Weinmiller isa TEDx speaker, she's an EQ
(00:51):
coach, and she's the author of abook called The Empathetic
Leader.
She has more than 20 years ofcross-industry experience where
she's helping leaders buildemotionally intelligent cultures
that not only feel better,here's the key, they perform
better.
She is here to talk to us aboutwhy empathy isn't just a soft
(01:13):
skill, it is the key to drivingreal results.
Dr.
Robinson Wine Miller, I cannotwait to dive into this topic
with you.
Welcome to the podcast.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (01:26):
Thank you so much for having me,
Lynn.
I mean, since we are the winewomen, right?
I love that.
Wine and the wine miller in thesame place.
Lyn Wineman (01:34):
This is exciting.
It is exciting.
And can I ask your permissionfor something?
Would it be okay since you andI are somewhat friendly?
Could I call you Melissathroughout this?
Yes, you can.
All right.
I want to honor that titlebecause I know how much work
goes into it and I know how howsmart and knowledgeable you are.
And I cannot wait to get intothis conversation.
(01:57):
I'd love to start by justhaving you tell us more about
your work and EQ via empathy.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (02:05):
You bet.
So I actually came to this umthrough a lot of personal
experience, through seeing someof the way leadership maybe
didn't empathize and connect andunderstand with their people
like they could have, and howthey were losing profit and
productivity innovation becauseof it.
I mean, that's that's reallythe crux of it, is they were
(02:25):
losing out because of what theyweren't doing.
Yeah.
And I had done some consultingin healthcare with my husband
before this.
And, you know, there was, I wasa musician for a long time.
I had seen it in that field,and it was just kind of like
there, there's a pattern here.
There's something that I needto look at.
So that's when I started kindof digging in and trying to
figure out how I could make thissomething that was skills-based
(02:48):
instead of just kind of thisfluffy puppies and rainbows
empathy kind of thing.
Lyn Wineman (02:53):
Okay, I love that you said that because I do think
sometimes that's what peoplethink.
And I feel like I've been inbusiness for quite a long time.
I got my start in the late 80sand early 90s.
I'm gonna date myself there.
But I was taught as a woman inbusiness to be tough, to be
smart, to be in control.
(03:15):
I worked very hard to do all ofthose things.
I think for 20 years, Iprobably didn't wear pink.
I didn't talk about my family.
I tried as hard as I could toespouse the opposite of empathy.
And I'm so glad that at thispoint in time, I get to talk to
(03:35):
leaders like you who are saying,you know what's important in
business?
Empathy and love.
And so I really love, because Iknow you have studied this
topic quite a lot and it's thesubject of your book, but why is
it so important to bringempathy into leadership at this
point in time?
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (03:56):
Because at the end of the day, all
organizations are about people,whether it's your employees,
whether it's your customers,whether it's your board,
whoever.
And what empathy really isabout more than feeling is
understanding and connection.
So if you really want to havean organization that's
supercharged for the future,connecting with your best
(04:17):
resource, which is people, iswhat's going to do that.
Lyn Wineman (04:20):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (04:20):
And the cool thing is, is you can
be tough, you can be, you know,driven, you can be intelligent
and still have empathy.
That's a myth that you can't.
Lyn Wineman (04:29):
So I mean, not that you bought into it, but some
people that's really that'sreally important because you
kind of think sometimes, and I'msure that I have been fooled by
that as well.
It's got to be an either or,but you're right.
Those those characteristics arenot mutually exclusive.
(04:51):
You can be empathetic and toughand smart, which, which I know
that you are, are those thingsas well.
So yeah.
Now, now, now now I know betterthan that.
So, so I'm really curious thenin your work, what are some ways
you've seen emotionallyintelligent leadership transform
(05:12):
organizations?
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (05:16):
Just with that connection, that
personal connection, I mean, itcan change culture.
It can change, it actually canlead to profit productivity and
innovation.
Lyn Wineman (05:25):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (05:25):
So let me give you an example of a
director that I was working withbecause I really like those
middle positions.
Yeah.
Because I get to lead both upand down.
Lyn Wineman (05:34):
Wow.
And they are in a toughposition too, I think.
Those middle positions, middlemanagers, that can be such a
lonely place.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (05:43):
Yes, it absolutely can, which is all
the more a reason whyconnection and understanding,
you know, which is what empathyis, really helps them out.
So I was working with thisdirector, and of course they're
like, well, come in and changeour culture.
Never mind that the culture wascoming down from the top, and
they're expecting him to changeit in the middle.
But, you know, the employeeengagement scores were terrible.
(06:04):
The department he was takingover, there'd been a lot of
friction.
There was some outlying um bitsof it that just had never felt
as part of it.
And so he's he's looking at meand he's like, Okay, what do I
need to do for this?
I'm like, you've got to connectwith your people, which means
they've got to know your actualhuman being that lives and
breathes and walks around.
So I want you to actually goout and see and be seen every
(06:25):
single day.
And I don't mean that you haveto go and do three-hour coffee
clutch, you just need to knowwho your people are and let them
know that you're someone thatcan be known, can be liked, and
can be trusted.
And he did.
And over a period of time, hispeople started coming to him.
And it didn't take very long,you know, because they had ideas
(06:47):
for better efficiencies becausethey live in it every single
day.
Lyn Wineman (06:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (06:53):
They've had these ideas for years and
nobody was listening.
But all of a sudden they hadsomeone that they knew and they
kind of liked, or at least theydidn't dislike.
Yeah, yeah, they were growingto trust.
So they bring him theseefficiencies, and you know, to
be able to create a bettercenter where he was at, to be
able to just clean up somelong-standing problems to do
that sort of thing.
(07:14):
And the next thing you know,these become innovations, right?
Through these innovations,because they're able to do their
job better, their productivitygoes up.
Plus, they feel they're beingheard, they feel they're being
understood, they're feeling likepart of a team.
It's helping with the loyalty,it's cleaning up some of the
goodwill issues that had beengoing on forever.
(07:35):
And it started to instill thisculture, even at the middle,
that this is what they do.
They listen and they work as ateam.
Lyn Wineman (07:43):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (07:44):
Next thing you know, the profit for
his center went up for the firsttime in years.
And now his higher-ups arelooking at him and going, How
did you do that?
Your employee engagement scoreswent from like the 50s to the
90s.
We've never seen it.
How did you do that?
Lyn Wineman (07:59):
Wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (07:59):
Yeah.
You know, and it was just amatter of actually connecting
with his people on a humanlevel.
That's all it took.
Lyn Wineman (08:06):
Wow.
Why is it so hard for humans tobe human, Melissa?
Like that is the question thatcomes to mind.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (08:17):
I I don't have an answer for that.
I don't know.
Because I have the sameresponse.
I'm like, why is this?
We're just we're asking you todo what humans do.
Lyn Wineman (08:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
As you were giving thatexample, and that is just such a
great example.
I heard you say three things,and then I heard you actually
repeat them in the storytelling.
And I'm curious if there's, youknow, any connection here.
When we read your book, will weread more about this?
But you said you advised thisleader to get out, walk around
(08:51):
so he could become known, becomeliked, and become trusted.
I'm guessing those are reallyimportant parts of the formula,
the connection here.
Can you can you tell us more?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (09:04):
Yeah.
So when you think about thesuper top leaders, right?
And and not necessarily becauseit's their fault, but they're
people that are usually closedup in their office.
Yeah.
That they don't get out.
Lyn Wineman (09:15):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (09:16):
That their people have no idea who
they are.
So they're just like a name.
And if they ever do come out oftheir office, everybody thinks
something's wrong.
Lyn Wineman (09:23):
Yeah, right, right.
Melissa Robinson-Wine (09:25):
Someone's getting fired.
Yeah, what's what's she doinghere?
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
But they're missing theopportunity for people to
actually get to know them humanto human.
So in our human brains, we justsee them as this figurehead
instead of being someone thatnot only we can give empathy to,
but can return it.
Yeah.
Because empathy, when it'sworking best, goes in both
(09:48):
directions.
Lyn Wineman (09:49):
Both directions.
All right.
Since you said that about bothdirections, there's another
question that I've rattling inaround in my head.
Do you have any thoughts onempathy towards self?
Oh, absolutely.
Self-empathy.
Yeah, right.
Like that's sometimes that'sthe hardest one.
When I interact with somebodywho's like very harsh and
(10:11):
outwardly judgmental, I oftenthink, wow, they must be, they
must really be hard onthemselves as well.
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (10:22):
Yeah.
And that's exactly what I seewith the leaders I work with
too.
Because usually they're veryambitious.
They're very highlyself-actualized.
They're driven.
I mean, these are these arepeople that are gunners.
They know what they want andthey know how to get there.
But in the process, they oftenlose track of themselves, which
is why leaders burn out at like35%.
You know, you end up withaddiction issues, you end up
(10:45):
with family issues, all of thisstuff.
And it's because they don'tknow how to show empathy for
themselves first.
Plus, if you can't show it foryourself, how are you going to
show it for anybody else?
Lyn Wineman (10:56):
Yeah.
Wow, that is that is goodstuff.
So, what do you say to peoplewho ask you or challenge you on
whether um having empathy,acting with empathy is actually
practical, right?
I mean, sometimes there is thatbelief that, you know, showing
(11:16):
empathy is going to mean thatyou get walked all over or it's
going to be expensive to showempathy, right?
Because maybe you're going to,I don't know, make some
adaptations or give people, youknow, more time off.
Or I don't know.
I'm just going through in myhead what all of those
objections towards practicalempathy might be.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (11:39):
So there was an Ernst ⁇ Young
survey that happened right afterthe end of the pandemic.
And it was specifically lookingat the great resignation.
And they surveyed leaders, theysurveyed employees, they
surveyed all of it.
And what they found was thatthe leaders that could actively
and effectively use empathyraised their productivity by
(12:01):
87%, their innovation by 86%,and their profit by 84%.
And this is not Melissa'sopinion.
This is Ernst and Young, whohave had their own problems in
the last couple of years, butall the same.
Lyn Wineman (12:16):
Right.
That's amazing.
I mean, because that numberimproving by 87%, 86%, 84%.
I mean, that's almost doubling,right?
And I think a lot of us wouldwalk the desert for a 20%
improvement, right?
And so just to know, likehaving understanding of people
(12:38):
and doing your three things tobe known, be liked, and trusted,
that can give you that kind ofresults.
Amazing.
I'm so happy that this surveyand this research and your work
is coming to light.
And I'm curious, Melissa, howdoes someone like you become an
(13:01):
empathy and EQ expert?
Right.
Like I'm really curious.
You mentioned you worked withyour husband, you were in
healthcare consulting, but youknow, that's a pretty big jump
to really like saying, I amgonna make this the focus of
what I'm doing.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (13:18):
So it actually started out before
then.
Okay.
I I was a musician, I was aFrench horizont.
Oh, I love that.
Oh, I got to tour in Rome, Igot to play with people like Ray
Charles and MannheimSteamroller, and these aren't
people that were in my orbit.
Yeah, those are big names.
We all know those names.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, butunfortunately, being a gigging
(13:41):
musician, I'm also hopelesslyaddicted to food, shelter, and
clothing.
So I knew that if I wanted tohave benefits and that kind of
thing, I was gonna have to getmy doctorate and probably be a
professor.
And that's what I did.
And I found a French hornprofessorship and I got it.
And I went out there and withinmy first semester.
Um, so like within months ofbeing there, I was assaulted by
(14:04):
one of my colleagues.
Lyn Wineman (14:05):
Oh wow.
I'm sorry.
Melissa Robinson-Winemille (14:07):
Wow.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And the more I talk about this,actually, the more people come
forward and they go, Yeah, I hadstuff like that happen to me
too in a toxic workplace.
Lyn Wineman (14:16):
Wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (14:16):
And that's really what it comes
down to is this place was sosystemically broken that it was
completely toxic.
And I ended up losing my careerover it.
And I'm not the only one.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of people end upgoing through this.
The problem with being a Frenchhorn player is I got out kind
of in my mid-40s, and it's like,now what do I do?
I don't really know.
Lyn Wineman (14:37):
You probably weren't set for retirement on
the pay that you made as aFrench horn player, even though
you were very good and traveledwith big acts.
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (14:47):
Yeah.
No, it was it was fantastic,but I mean, you know, starving
musician is is what it is.
Yeah.
So I just but the thing is, isI lost a career I dedicated my
life to, and I just couldn't letit go.
I just kept coming back to whatwas the problem.
What was so broken that theywere fine taking this stuff
(15:08):
away, that they were finebreaking people and just leaving
them.
And I kept coming back to thislack of connection, which just
kept coming back to empathy.
And then after that, I wasdoing consulting with my
husband, and I was seeing thesame things over and over again,
you know, that that people werefine just not connecting and
(15:28):
not understanding and allowingthese horrible toxic situations
to just be because they didn'teven know how to begin
addressing it.
It was so huge, you know, evenif it's a small organization,
it's such a looming problem ofwhat do I do with this, assuming
they want to do anything aboutit at all.
Lyn Wineman (15:45):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (15:46):
So that's what got me on the track
of empathy.
And I started digging aroundand looking for a leadership
program, and I found the onethere at Creighton.
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (15:55):
Creighton is not far.
I'm based.
Most of you know I'm based inNebraska.
Kid Glove has an office inOmaha where Creighton is just a
wonderful school, a wonderfulmedical center, a great
community.
Yeah.
That's great.
You know, I'm really interestedas you talk about this in your
journey, um, because the musicindustry is really kind of known
(16:20):
for chewing people up andspitting them out.
I too work in an industryadvertising that, you know, if
you watch a lot of the shows onadvertising, known for chewing
people up and spitting them out.
And that's why our brand, KidGlove, is all about treating
people with kid gloves.
We wanted from our foundationto be the kind of place that
(16:42):
treats both people and brandswith great care.
So at the time we were foundedin 2010, I didn't really have
the words empathy.
I mean, I knew what the wordempathy meant, but we weren't
talking about empathy inbusiness at the time.
Just naming ourselves Kid Glovewas a little bit out there, but
I feel somewhat vindicated inthat, you know, what we thought
(17:05):
at the time is really coming tofruition.
And I think the world is goingto be a much better place as we
continue to do this work.
And so part of doing this workis let's look at this book that
you wrote.
It's a it's a fairly new book,The Empathetic Leader.
Can you tell us about it andwhat you hope the people who
(17:26):
read it will take away?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (17:28):
So I kind of wrote it like a
manual, you know, because weactually talk about the book
specifically zeroes in on howyou use empathy to connect with
emotional intelligence.
Lyn Wineman (17:38):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemi (17:39):
Because the first article on emotional
intelligence came out in 1990.
And then Daniel Goldman'sreally 95.
Lyn Wineman (17:46):
Wow.
It just wasn't like it wasn'tlike a big thing, right?
Like I remember the concepts ofleadership by walking around
and who moved my cheese was kindof a big one.
I mean, I think PatrickLencioni and the five
dysfunctions of a team was kindof becoming of age at that time,
but empathy was a little bit, alittle bit quieter.
(18:07):
It was a little bit morewoo-woo at the time, right?
Whereas I feel like it's comingmainstream now.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (18:13):
Well, it's always been lumped in with
emotional intelligence.
Ah, yeah.
You know, whereas I reallythink it has to come first.
I think you've got tounderstand and connect.
Because if you think ofemotional intelligence as a big
tool bag, right?
You got communication andmotivation, and you've got
hammers and saws and chisels andall this stuff in this tool
bag.
If you don't connect andunderstand with your people
(18:35):
first, you don't know when youreach into that bag if you want
a saw or a left-handedscrewdriver.
Announcer (18:41):
Yeah.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (18:42):
Yeah.
I, you know, I really think wehave to start with empathy.
And I think that may be wheresome of the disconnect is.
Lyn Wineman (18:48):
It's foundational, right?
If you jump straight to some ofthe other strategies, some of
the other tools without theunderstanding.
That makes so much sense,Melissa.
Like, I don't know if you couldsee or feel a light bulb going
off on top of my head, but it'slike, oh, that that what you
just said there connects thedots for me.
(19:10):
So where can we get this book?
Is it on Amazon?
Is it on your website?
Where can we find it?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (19:18):
You can get it on Amazon or Barnes
and Noble or any of the onlinereal tellers.
And right now we have ahardcover, a soft cover, and
Kindle.
And there will be an audiobookcoming out here, hopefully in
the next month or so.
Lyn Wineman (19:31):
Awesome.
You and I will have to talkbecause our book at Kid Glove,
Untangling Spaghetti, a brandingfable, that audiobook is
underway.
And I love audiobooks, so Ifeel bad that it's not out there
yet.
But audiobooks take a lot oftime to do, don't they?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (19:46):
Yeah, they do.
Lyn Wineman (19:47):
Are you are you and you're reading it yourself?
Yes.
I love an author-red audiobook.
So good for you.
We'll keep an eye out for that.
And we'll make sure to getlinks to that book in the show
notes.
So, Melissa, I do want to askyou a question.
I mentioned, and a lot ofpeople know, Kid Glove does a
lot of work in the brandingspace.
(20:08):
So I'm always curious aboutpeople's brands.
And I love that you have theword empathy right in your brand
name.
What does that EQ via empathybrand name mean to you?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (20:24):
So, what it means, it goes along
with the book that you'relooking at emotional
intelligence through the lens ofempathy.
So, you know, that's the EQ,because EQ is short for
emotional intelligence.
EQ via empathy.
Emotional intelligence has seenthrough the lens of empathy,
but a whole lot shorter.
Lyn Wineman (20:42):
All right.
I have a merchandising idea foryou.
I think empathy goggles shouldbe next on your list once that
audio book is done.
Empathy goggles, right?
I like that.
All right.
We'll see.
We'll see.
What other than empathygoggles?
What's on the horizon for youand EQ via empathy?
So I've already started on booktwo.
(21:03):
Wow.
I tell you what, so many peopleI know write that first book
and go, never again.
And you have already started.
Wow.
Well, tell us more.
What should we be looking outfor?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:16):
Well, the second one I want to
actually be for anybody.
This is going to be aboutempathy in daily life, empathy
with how people experience it,you know?
Yeah.
Rather than just targetingleaders, this one's going to be
pretty much for anybody.
Lyn Wineman (21:28):
So beautiful.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:30):
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (21:30):
I love it.
So for someone who wants tobring more empathy into the way
they lead, people who arelistening, what's one practical
first step you can recommend forthem?
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (21:41):
Start with self-empathy.
Lyn Wineman (21:44):
Oh.
I love that.
Probably the hardest, too,right?
Yes.
Start with self-empathy.
I love it.
So for our listeners who arelistening, going to get excited
or are excited about this,actually, let me, this is a good
place for me too.
That was a bad start to thatquestion.
So, Melissa, for everyone who'sbeen listening who's really
(22:08):
excited about learning more, inaddition to the links to the
book, where can they mo findmore information about you and
EQ via empathy?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (22:19):
You can catch me at my website,
which is eqviaempathy.com.
Nice.
And yeah, there is a link forthe book.
And if you sign up for mynewsletter, I will send you a
free chapter of the book so youcan take a look and see what's
actually in there, you know, sothat you kind of you kind of
have an appetizer.
Lyn Wineman (22:36):
I love it.
My copy of the book is is inroute on the way, but I'm
definitely gonna go sign up forthat.
And we'll have that link in theshow notes as well.
All right, I'm gonna ask you afun question, and I'm sure as an
author, as a TEDx speaker, youare gonna have a great answer
for this.
But our listeners know I aminspired by motivational quotes.
(23:00):
And I would like an originalquote from you to inspire our
listeners.
So this is coming from themusician.
Oh that empathy is a practice,not a performance.
Wow, tell me more.
I think I know what you mean bythat, but I'd love to go
deeper.
It's such a beautiful quote.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (23:21):
So practice you do every day, every
day, every day.
If you're a performingmusician, I mean hours, every
day.
Even when you think you've gotit, you still go back and
practice it more.
And that's exactly what empathyis.
It's something you you do as askill every day and every day.
Performance is something you doone time and then you say,
okay, that's it.
And that's that's not, youdon't pull empathy out at the
(23:43):
once-a-year, you know, allorganization meeting and then
say you're done with it.
You practice it every day,every day.
Lyn Wineman (23:50):
Wow.
Empathy is a practice, not aperformance.
I've said this before, but Ifeel like I'd really love that
as a poster right behind myshoulder here.
Someday I'm gonna have my wholeoffice just wallpapered with
quote posters from this podcast.
But that is that is one of myfavorites.
So, Melissa, as we wrap up thisgreat conversation today, I
(24:14):
always have so much fun when Italk to you.
What is the most importantthing you would like our
listeners to remember about thiswork that you're doing?
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (24:24):
I think the biggest thing,
especially on a personal level,is to remember that empathy and
judgment cannot exist in thesame space.
Lyn Wineman (24:33):
Oh, wow.
Melissa Robinson-Winemiller (24:35):
So if you're feeling judgment for
yourself, you're not gonna feelself-empathy.
If you're feeling judgment forsomeone else, you're not gonna
be able to give them empathy.
And I think that's a reallyimportant sign to just be aware
of.
Lyn Wineman (24:47):
Wow.
If I put your quote, empathy isa practice, not a performance,
uh behind me on up on myshoulder or on the wall behind
my shoulder.
I think I want to put thatempathy and judgment cannot
coexist, like right in front ofmy face here.
That is such good, good, goodadvice, practical advice.
(25:08):
Melissa, I'm sad that this iscoming to an end.
I'm gonna say that I fullybelieve the world needs more
people like you, more firms likeEQ via empathy.
And I just appreciate youtaking time to talk with us
today.
Melissa Robinson-Winemill (25:26):
Well, thank you so much for having
me.
And I'm so excited with KidGlove that you're doing the same
thing with the marketingindustry.
Because if all of us keep doingit in our respective places,
people are gonna have to notice.
Lyn Wineman (25:39):
Yeah, they're gonna have to notice.
We are not going quietly intothe background, are we?
All right.
Melissa, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
This was such a pleasure, Lynn.
Announcer (25:54):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitkidglove.com at kidglov.com to
get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, feature to
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
(26:15):
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com