March 20, 2024 • 26 mins
We're thrilled to have Rosie Siemer with us today, the Founder and CEO of FIVESEED, a leading research and strategy partner for arts, culture, and conservation organizations worldwide. With nearly a decade of experience, Rosie has spearheaded groundbreaking initiatives, and we’re chatting with her about FIVESEED's innovative strategies, her book on museum membership, and her unique approach to enhancing audience engagement in cultural organizations.
Rosie, with her rich background in museum membership and audience engagement, graces us with profound insights into how cultural organizations can forge stronger connections with their communities. Her narrative, from youthful museum wanderer to a professional beacon for arts enrichment, lays the foundation for our discussion on the transformative power of museums to inspire curiosity and bond us as humans.
Welcome to the Agency for Change podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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Rosie Siemer (00:00):
Follow your bliss and make your own luck.
Announcer (00:06):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchangemakers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall home.
Lyn Wineman (00:29):
Hey everyone, this is Lyn Wineman, president of
KidGlov.
Welcome to another episode ofAgency for Change podcast.
Today, I am thrilled to haveRosie Siemer with us.
She is the founder and CEO ofan organization called FIVESEED.
They're a leading research andstrategy partner for arts,
(00:52):
culture and conservationorganizations worldwide.
She has nearly a decade ofexperience spearheading
groundbreaking initiatives.
We're going to chat with herabout her innovative strategies
and her book on museummembership.
She literally wrote the book onmuseum membership.
(01:13):
Also, we're going to chat abouther unique approach to
enhancing audience engagement incultural organizations.
Rosie, I am eager to talk withyou today to talk about your
work.
Welcome to the podcast.
Rosie Siemer (01:28):
Thank you so much, Lyn.
I'm so excited to be here withyou.
Lyn Wineman (01:32):
I can't wait to have this conversation because I
think your work is sointeresting, Rosie, but I'd love
to start by having you tell usmore about FIVESEED and what you
do.
Rosie Siemer (01:47):
Sure, so we are a research and strategy
organization and we partnerexclusively with arts and
culture organizations and reallywhere our core strength is is
helping museums and culturaldevelop data-informed strategies
so that they can reach newaudiences, but also so that they
(02:08):
can deepen their relationshipswith their existing visitors,
members and donors.
Lyn Wineman (02:13):
Oh, I love that so much.
I love the idea of really beingintentional about creating and
building those relationships andI'm really interested in what
is your strategy and approachfor enhancing audience
engagement for these arts andcultural organizations?
Rosie Siemer (02:37):
Yeah, so we start all of our projects by asking
just a ton of questions.
You know, the answers to thosequestions are really what drive
the research methodology and howwe approach the strategy
development.
You know, each museum is verydifferent and their challenges
(02:59):
are unique, their opportunitiesare unique.
So we really are kind ofthinking about how can we create
the most comprehensive approachfor research and we really want
to be gathering insights tobetter understand who our
audiences are, what they careabout, how we can better meet
(03:21):
their needs.
And all of that really kind ofbacks up to those initial
questions that the organizationwants to answer.
And then we can from there goout and talk to the people and
find out, you know, when arethey visiting, why are they
visiting, why aren't theyvisiting, why are they members?
And so everything kind of flowsfrom those initial questions.
Lyn Wineman (03:46):
I really appreciate that, you know.
I think what's interesting isyou bring a lot of value to the
organizations you serve becauseyou understand museums, arts and
cultural organizations.
But assuming that they're allthe same would be a huge mistake
(04:06):
, wouldn't it?
Rosie Siemer (04:09):
Not only do we have museums that are different
disciplines, different sizes,but they have different cultures
, they have different goals,they're in different markets,
different communities, thatthey're serving different
priorities.
So, yeah, it really isimportant to take a couple steps
(04:29):
back and make sure that weunderstand the organization and
what their goals are before westart down any path for research
.
Lyn Wineman (04:38):
Yeah, Rosie, I'm really curious, what sparked
your interest in working withmuseums?
I mean, were you an eight yearold on a playground going, when
I grow up, I want to be a museumaudience engagement specialist.
Rosie Siemer (04:53):
You know, I have to say that I was very fortunate
just to kind of fall into thiswork.
Museums have always been veryimportant in my life.
When I was little, my mom, andstill to this day, is a member
of everything.
(05:14):
She's a member of the ScienceCenter and the Art Museum and
that was really how we as afamily got out and explored and
she always really instilled inme and my siblings this idea of
being curious and the fun oflearning, and so museums were
always just a special place.
And as an adult, I mean I thinkmuseums are incredibly
(05:39):
important for society and theyhave the potential to really
foster human connection.
I mean, my love of museums hasalways been there, but I found a
love of membership a littlelater in my career and now that
I found that I am justcompletely fascinated by
(06:00):
membership and I think I couldspend the rest of my life
working in that field and neverbe bored.
Lyn Wineman (06:06):
I love it.
Well, they say find work thatyou love and you'll never work a
day in your life right which Iknow that you work very hard for
your clients and for yourbusiness.
But when you love it and have apassion for the organizations,
that really makes it a lot moreexciting to get out of bed in
the morning to do the work thatwe're going to do.
(06:28):
Rosie, the first time you and Italked, you were sharing with
me about your member motivationstudy, and I was so fascinated
by that because I felt someparallels to the work that
KidGlov does and I just wantedto learn more.
And so, for our listeners,could you walk us through that
(06:50):
member motivation study andmaybe even share some high level
things that you discovered inthat survey?
Rosie Siemer (06:59):
Sure, so I will try to do this without the
visuals.
Lyn Wineman (07:03):
Okay.
Rosie Siemer (07:04):
So the big idea behind the member motivation
study is that ever since Istarted working in membership,
I've always been really curiousabout how social identity might
play a role in how people decideto become a member at a museum.
And I thought that you know, oneof the best ways for us to
(07:25):
investigate those kind of hiddenmotivations behind the decision
to join would be to conduct afield experiment, and so we
partnered with 30 organizations.
They represented all across thecountry, different size museums,
different disciplines and weset out to test what we divide
(07:48):
as the control, which in thiscase was the traditional batting
proposition of membership.
So that's typically talk aboutmembership, it's a way to visit
for free all year long, to getaccess to these benefits, and we
tested that control valueproposition against four
(08:09):
distinct social identity framedvalue propositions, and so those
included sense of belonging,being a facilitator, sense of
responsibility and what we callthe explorer, kind of this idea
of being a lifelong learner, andso those value propositions
were very distinct to those kindof big ideas, and we had the
(08:35):
museum send out to their emaillist this link that sent them to
one of those five messages andthen we measured the response
from there.
The email that went out was wasvery bland, not sexy marketing,
it was just enough to letpeople self identify that they
(08:58):
were at least interested inmembership and as soon as they
went, click that link, they theygot dropped into our study and
we can actually observe how theywere responded to those
messages.
Lyn Wineman (09:09):
I think that's so fascinating.
Now, I didn't hear in thedifferent options you had tote
bag was tote bag not, I alwaysthink of tote bag as being one
of those things you expect whenyou're a member.
Rosie Siemer (09:23):
So tote bag in this inaugural kind of initial
study did not make the cut and Ihave to hold up on its own.
But what I will say is that insome of our other research, we
have found that people arereally interested, some members
feel very strongly about beingable to display their support in
(09:48):
the organization, and so Ithink tote bags do a great job
of that.
And you know, we're still we'restill doing our research.
So this was just our first yearof the study and we have a lot
more to learn.
Lyn Wineman (10:03):
I love that.
I love the whole idea behindthe study.
So are there, I know you'restill, you know it's just the
first year, but are there some,a few big insights you could
share with us?
Rosie Siemer (10:16):
Yes, so I think the most important takeaway that
came out of this research isthat we have now empirical
evidence that we can be moreeffective, at least in some
contexts, by marketingmembership through this frame of
social identity.
So value propositions thatoutperformed the control at a
(10:42):
statistically significant levelincluded the sense of belonging,
and the explorer and also ourfacilitator served really well.
And then, depending on the typeof organization if it was a
history museum or a garden or anart museum we saw some
differences in which messageskind of resonated most but I
(11:06):
think you know the key for me isthat it just means, it doesn't
mean that we should stop talkingabout the kind of more
transactional benefits ofmembership, but instead we
really need to be integratingmore of this social identity
messaging into all of ourmarketing.
Lyn Wineman (11:25):
Yeah, I think it's so fascinating and I think that
it's got to be hard as a museumdirector or a museum marketer.
You're getting ready formembership drive.
You've got some very importantgoals you have to meet.
It's got to be hard to give upthe things that you've always
(11:45):
done, and so what I love aboutwhat you've done is you've found
out some really interestinginsights, but you've done it in
a way that's backed with data,so it gives people the
confidence to make some gooddecisions and try some new
things.
Would you say that's true aboutthe work from the survey?
Rosie Siemer (12:08):
Absolutely, and in fact, we've heard from a lot of
the participating organizationsand even some museums that
didn't participate in our studybut to have taken the findings
and are putting them to work.
They're doing some of their ownAB testing.
They're starting to put some ofthat messaging out on their
(12:29):
website and in their direct mail.
So, yeah, I think this is aboutnot stopping the things that
are working If it's working,keep doing that by all means but
that we can also optimize andstart thinking about how to
evolve and become even moreeffective as we're looking to
(12:54):
engage new audiences.
Lyn Wineman (12:56):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
You know, actually, in additionto your study, Rosie, you've
actually written the book onmuseum membership innovation,
right?
Can you tell us more about thebook?
Rosie Siemer (13:11):
Yeah.
So I mean, this book reallykind of came out of my
experience working with museumsfor the past 13 or so years and
it really kind of came fromseeing that museums were
struggling, that museums werelagging a bit, especially when
(13:33):
it comes to innovation and toembracing experimenting.
I really wanted to supportmuseum leaders in thinking about
how they can keep kind of doingthe things that are working but
also start to innovate and whatare some of the ways that you
(13:54):
can go about that.
And then also really bringingforward some things that have
been kind of top of mind for meas I was learning more about and
just my own research into whypeople join and realizing that
we have a big opportunity in themuseum field to build more
(14:17):
empathy and to our work, ourresearch and also just the way
that we are designing ourmembership programs, the way
that we are messaging ouraudiences, to just build
stronger relationships and moreloyalty.
Lyn Wineman (14:36):
I just am in love with you talking about empathy
and the idea of combining dataand empathy.
I think that is such a powerfuldual threat there.
Right, because having data toback up your decision making,
but really having anunderstanding for your audience
(14:57):
and I think even the differentunique niches within your
audience is so important, Rosie,so I love that that's part of
your framework.
Now I imagine, with all of thiswork and thinking about
innovation, you know we'reseeing a lot of change across
the board in marketing.
(15:19):
How do you see the landscape ofmuseum engagement evolving in
the future?
And two part question whatwould FIVESEED's role be in
helping museums innovate?
Rosie Siemer (15:33):
So I mean, first and foremost, I think museums
today have found themselves in ahighly competitive landscape
when it comes to options forleisure and education and kind
of creating shared experiences.
You know, museums are competingnot only with other museums and
(15:53):
other arts and cultureactivities.
They're competing with Netflixand YouTube and a lot of
for-profit immersive experienceslike Meow Wolf.
So I think museums really needto get better at understanding
audience needs and then meetingaudiences where they are.
(16:15):
So there's a lot of discussionin the museum field right now
about how the museum experiencemight need to change to better
meet folks where they are.
But from an engagementstandpoint, and when I'm
thinking about audiencedevelopment, I'm really thinking
(16:35):
about first seek to understand,and so we need to really be
listening deeply with not justour current audiences, but our
potential audiences, becausethat's one of the things that
museums are challenged withright now as well as reaching
out to people who maybe haven'tvisited yet.
(16:59):
And for those people who mightnot, you know, like, as an
example in one of the, there'ssome really great research out
there that some of the biggestbarriers to participation in
museums is not cost.
It's actually like time is ahuge barrier.
(17:19):
And then it's barriers liketransportation.
It's barriers like not feelingthat that place is for me.
Museums have a long way to go,I think, and being more
responsive to audience needs andas far as our role, I think we
(17:44):
are here to be a partner and afacilitator, to help encourage
museums to think differentlyabout how they might more
intentionally design theirofferings and then really kind
of bring that research forwardso that we are making decisions
based on data and we're not justmaking assumptions about who
(18:08):
our audiences are and what theycare about.
Lyn Wineman (18:10):
Wow, that makes a lot of sense.
You know, there's so muchinformation on the different
generations that I do think it'seasy to just assume that just
this generation or thatgeneration may or may not be
interested, or they may beinterested in certain things.
But when you really break itdown to your audience and you
(18:31):
have empathy for them, thatcould really change the game.
So I think it's fantastic thatyou're doing that.
You know, Rosie, we at Kid Glovwork with a lot of nonprofit
organizations, and some of thoseare museums and cultural
organizations, and sometimes weget some pushback that oh,
(18:55):
they're not really nonprofits.
Do you find that, and how doyou address that misconception,
if you do find it?
Rosie Siemer (19:03):
There's quite a bit of research out there that
shows not only does kind of thebroader general public not
necessarily know that museumsare nonprofits, but even
visitors and even some membersmay not know that a museum is a
(19:24):
nonprofit, and this is, I think,one of those fundamental
challenges that museums have.
It's how do we educate audiencesabout why we need their support
, how their donation or theirmembership, even their
visitation, makes a difference.
(19:45):
That's all about communicatingimpact, but there's a lot of
noise out there and I think formuseums it's becoming
increasingly difficult to cutthrough the clutter, to be top
of mind.
So I don't know that I have agreat answer just yet for how to
(20:09):
solve this, but I think at thefoundational level, it's about
communication and it's aboutmessaging and making sure that
we are not again not makingassumptions about what people
know, because we know we're veryclose to the organization and
(20:31):
so we don't always think abouthow our audiences may not just
be thinking about us day in andday out.
They may not know everything sowe have to do a better job of
educating.
I also like to encourage ourclients to think about how they
(20:56):
might set expectations forvisitors and members in a way
that we expect them to supportus.
We expect them to share withtheir friends and family about
the wonderful experience they'vehad.
We want to encourage thosetypes of behaviors.
Lyn Wineman (21:17):
That's great.
I think most people wouldprobably be blown away to really
know the cost that it takes tofacilitate a museum experience.
I think that sometimes, maybewhen we're paying the fee, we
feel like, oh, this is kind ofexpensive, but really for a live
(21:41):
type of cultural experience,that's not an easy thing to put
together.
So, Rosie, I love talking aboutyour research and your work and
your book.
For our listeners who'd like tolearn more, how can they find
information about FIVESEED andthe work that you're doing?
Rosie Siemer (22:04):
Yeah, so our website is currently under
development, but when thewebsite coming out soon at five
seed.
c om.
But in the meantime you coulddefinitely check out membership
innovationcom.
That's where we post a lot ofour research findings and
insights and things that areswirling in our heads.
(22:27):
And also for those who areinterested in getting more
involved in the museum community, you can always connect with me
and my broader team at Museumsas Progress.
This is a community of practiceand you can find us at
museumprogress.
com.
Lyn Wineman (22:47):
That's amazing.
We will put links to both ofthose websites in the show notes
for this on kidglov.
com, so anybody that wants tolink directly to those, we'll
get that in there.
And good luck on the newwebsite.
I know that's a big project andwhen it's done that will be
fantastic.
So, Rosie, I'm going to switchgears here and I'm going to ask
(23:09):
you my favorite question.
This episode, by the way, isour 190th episode of Agency for
Change.
Can you believe that?
Yeah, e're nearing into 200there, but I have always asked
this question because I'minspired by motivational quotes
(23:30):
and I would love to have a RosieSeamer original quote for our
listeners.
Rosie Siemer (23:38):
Okay, Well, I guess, okay, I guess my words of
wisdom quote might be somethingthat's a bit of a blend between
two ideas that have alwaysinspired me.
So I would say follow yourbliss and make your own luck.
Lyn Wineman (23:57):
Ooh, follow your bliss and make your own luck.
I love that.
That is fantastic, and sincewe're just about past St.
Patrick's Day, that seems likea good St.
Patrick's Day quote as well.
So, Rosie, as we wrap up thisgreat conversation and I'm so
interested in the work thatyou're doing I'd like to ask one
(24:20):
last question, and that is whatis the most important thing you
would like our listeners toremember about the work that
you're doing?
Rosie Siemer (24:30):
Oh gosh.
Well, I think I guess pushbackagainst conventional wisdom.
You know, really kind of maketime and space for
experimentation and challengingsome of your assumptions.
I think that's true in our kindof day-to-day membership
(24:52):
program management practice, butalso when we're thinking about
how we want to engage with ouraudiences, how we go about
hearing from them and reallyjust to think about how we can
be more intentional in designingexperiences and from my
(25:14):
perspective, membership can dothat.
You know, we can be moreintentional about what we want
our membership program to do forthe organization and also what
we want the program to feel likeand be for our members.
Lyn Wineman (25:31):
I think the idea of making time and space for
experimentation is a reallyimportant way of life so that is
just great advice, Rosie.
Rosie, I fully believe theworld needs more people like you
.
We need more museums, more artsand cultural organizations, and
(25:53):
I'm glad that you're out therehelping them on our behalf.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Rosie Siemer (26:01):
Thank you so much, Lyn.
It's been such a treat and I'mhonored to have a chance to
share a little bit aboutsomething that I care very
deeply about.
Lyn Wineman (26:10):
What a great conversation.
Thank you so much.
Announcer (26:16):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast To hear all ourinterviews with those who are
making a positive change in ourcommunities or to nominate a
changemaker you'd love to hearfrom visit kidglov.
com at k-i-d-g-l-o-v dot com toget in touch, as always.
If you like what you've heardtoday, be sure to rate, review,
subscribe and share.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Follow your bliss and make your own luck.
Announcer (00:06):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchangemakers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall home.
Lyn Wineman (00:29):
Hey everyone, this is Lyn Wineman, president of
KidGlov.
Welcome to another episode ofAgency for Change podcast.
Today, I am thrilled to haveRosie Siemer with us.
She is the founder and CEO ofan organization called FIVESEED.
They're a leading research andstrategy partner for arts,
(00:52):
culture and conservationorganizations worldwide.
She has nearly a decade ofexperience spearheading
groundbreaking initiatives.
We're going to chat with herabout her innovative strategies
and her book on museummembership.
She literally wrote the book onmuseum membership.
(01:13):
Also, we're going to chat abouther unique approach to
enhancing audience engagement incultural organizations.
Rosie, I am eager to talk withyou today to talk about your
work.
Welcome to the podcast.
Rosie Siemer (01:28):
Thank you so much, Lyn.
I'm so excited to be here withyou.
Lyn Wineman (01:32):
I can't wait to have this conversation because I
think your work is sointeresting, Rosie, but I'd love
to start by having you tell usmore about FIVESEED and what you
do.
Rosie Siemer (01:47):
Sure, so we are a research and strategy
organization and we partnerexclusively with arts and
culture organizations and reallywhere our core strength is is
helping museums and culturaldevelop data-informed strategies
so that they can reach newaudiences, but also so that they
(02:08):
can deepen their relationshipswith their existing visitors,
members and donors.
Lyn Wineman (02:13):
Oh, I love that so much.
I love the idea of really beingintentional about creating and
building those relationships andI'm really interested in what
is your strategy and approachfor enhancing audience
engagement for these arts andcultural organizations?
Rosie Siemer (02:37):
Yeah, so we start all of our projects by asking
just a ton of questions.
You know, the answers to thosequestions are really what drive
the research methodology and howwe approach the strategy
development.
You know, each museum is verydifferent and their challenges
(02:59):
are unique, their opportunitiesare unique.
So we really are kind ofthinking about how can we create
the most comprehensive approachfor research and we really want
to be gathering insights tobetter understand who our
audiences are, what they careabout, how we can better meet
(03:21):
their needs.
And all of that really kind ofbacks up to those initial
questions that the organizationwants to answer.
And then we can from there goout and talk to the people and
find out, you know, when arethey visiting, why are they
visiting, why aren't theyvisiting, why are they members?
And so everything kind of flowsfrom those initial questions.
Lyn Wineman (03:46):
I really appreciate that, you know.
I think what's interesting isyou bring a lot of value to the
organizations you serve becauseyou understand museums, arts and
cultural organizations.
But assuming that they're allthe same would be a huge mistake
(04:06):
, wouldn't it?
Rosie Siemer (04:09):
Not only do we have museums that are different
disciplines, different sizes,but they have different cultures
, they have different goals,they're in different markets,
different communities, thatthey're serving different
priorities.
So, yeah, it really isimportant to take a couple steps
(04:29):
back and make sure that weunderstand the organization and
what their goals are before westart down any path for research
.
Lyn Wineman (04:38):
Yeah, Rosie, I'm really curious, what sparked
your interest in working withmuseums?
I mean, were you an eight yearold on a playground going, when
I grow up, I want to be a museumaudience engagement specialist.
Rosie Siemer (04:53):
You know, I have to say that I was very fortunate
just to kind of fall into thiswork.
Museums have always been veryimportant in my life.
When I was little, my mom, andstill to this day, is a member
of everything.
(05:14):
She's a member of the ScienceCenter and the Art Museum and
that was really how we as afamily got out and explored and
she always really instilled inme and my siblings this idea of
being curious and the fun oflearning, and so museums were
always just a special place.
And as an adult, I mean I thinkmuseums are incredibly
(05:39):
important for society and theyhave the potential to really
foster human connection.
I mean, my love of museums hasalways been there, but I found a
love of membership a littlelater in my career and now that
I found that I am justcompletely fascinated by
(06:00):
membership and I think I couldspend the rest of my life
working in that field and neverbe bored.
Lyn Wineman (06:06):
I love it.
Well, they say find work thatyou love and you'll never work a
day in your life right which Iknow that you work very hard for
your clients and for yourbusiness.
But when you love it and have apassion for the organizations,
that really makes it a lot moreexciting to get out of bed in
the morning to do the work thatwe're going to do.
(06:28):
Rosie, the first time you and Italked, you were sharing with
me about your member motivationstudy, and I was so fascinated
by that because I felt someparallels to the work that
KidGlov does and I just wantedto learn more.
And so, for our listeners,could you walk us through that
(06:50):
member motivation study andmaybe even share some high level
things that you discovered inthat survey?
Rosie Siemer (06:59):
Sure, so I will try to do this without the
visuals.
Lyn Wineman (07:03):
Okay.
Rosie Siemer (07:04):
So the big idea behind the member motivation
study is that ever since Istarted working in membership,
I've always been really curiousabout how social identity might
play a role in how people decideto become a member at a museum.
And I thought that you know, oneof the best ways for us to
(07:25):
investigate those kind of hiddenmotivations behind the decision
to join would be to conduct afield experiment, and so we
partnered with 30 organizations.
They represented all across thecountry, different size museums,
different disciplines and weset out to test what we divide
(07:48):
as the control, which in thiscase was the traditional batting
proposition of membership.
So that's typically talk aboutmembership, it's a way to visit
for free all year long, to getaccess to these benefits, and we
tested that control valueproposition against four
(08:09):
distinct social identity framedvalue propositions, and so those
included sense of belonging,being a facilitator, sense of
responsibility and what we callthe explorer, kind of this idea
of being a lifelong learner, andso those value propositions
were very distinct to those kindof big ideas, and we had the
(08:35):
museum send out to their emaillist this link that sent them to
one of those five messages andthen we measured the response
from there.
The email that went out was wasvery bland, not sexy marketing,
it was just enough to letpeople self identify that they
(08:58):
were at least interested inmembership and as soon as they
went, click that link, they theygot dropped into our study and
we can actually observe how theywere responded to those
messages.
Lyn Wineman (09:09):
I think that's so fascinating.
Now, I didn't hear in thedifferent options you had tote
bag was tote bag not, I alwaysthink of tote bag as being one
of those things you expect whenyou're a member.
Rosie Siemer (09:23):
So tote bag in this inaugural kind of initial
study did not make the cut and Ihave to hold up on its own.
But what I will say is that insome of our other research, we
have found that people arereally interested, some members
feel very strongly about beingable to display their support in
(09:48):
the organization, and so Ithink tote bags do a great job
of that.
And you know, we're still we'restill doing our research.
So this was just our first yearof the study and we have a lot
more to learn.
Lyn Wineman (10:03):
I love that.
I love the whole idea behindthe study.
So are there, I know you'restill, you know it's just the
first year, but are there some,a few big insights you could
share with us?
Rosie Siemer (10:16):
Yes, so I think the most important takeaway that
came out of this research isthat we have now empirical
evidence that we can be moreeffective, at least in some
contexts, by marketingmembership through this frame of
social identity.
So value propositions thatoutperformed the control at a
(10:42):
statistically significant levelincluded the sense of belonging,
and the explorer and also ourfacilitator served really well.
And then, depending on the typeof organization if it was a
history museum or a garden or anart museum we saw some
differences in which messageskind of resonated most but I
(11:06):
think you know the key for me isthat it just means, it doesn't
mean that we should stop talkingabout the kind of more
transactional benefits ofmembership, but instead we
really need to be integratingmore of this social identity
messaging into all of ourmarketing.
Lyn Wineman (11:25):
Yeah, I think it's so fascinating and I think that
it's got to be hard as a museumdirector or a museum marketer.
You're getting ready formembership drive.
You've got some very importantgoals you have to meet.
It's got to be hard to give upthe things that you've always
(11:45):
done, and so what I love aboutwhat you've done is you've found
out some really interestinginsights, but you've done it in
a way that's backed with data,so it gives people the
confidence to make some gooddecisions and try some new
things.
Would you say that's true aboutthe work from the survey?
Rosie Siemer (12:08):
Absolutely, and in fact, we've heard from a lot of
the participating organizationsand even some museums that
didn't participate in our studybut to have taken the findings
and are putting them to work.
They're doing some of their ownAB testing.
They're starting to put some ofthat messaging out on their
(12:29):
website and in their direct mail.
So, yeah, I think this is aboutnot stopping the things that
are working If it's working,keep doing that by all means but
that we can also optimize andstart thinking about how to
evolve and become even moreeffective as we're looking to
(12:54):
engage new audiences.
Lyn Wineman (12:56):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
You know, actually, in additionto your study, Rosie, you've
actually written the book onmuseum membership innovation,
right?
Can you tell us more about thebook?
Rosie Siemer (13:11):
Yeah.
So I mean, this book reallykind of came out of my
experience working with museumsfor the past 13 or so years and
it really kind of came fromseeing that museums were
struggling, that museums werelagging a bit, especially when
(13:33):
it comes to innovation and toembracing experimenting.
I really wanted to supportmuseum leaders in thinking about
how they can keep kind of doingthe things that are working but
also start to innovate and whatare some of the ways that you
(13:54):
can go about that.
And then also really bringingforward some things that have
been kind of top of mind for meas I was learning more about and
just my own research into whypeople join and realizing that
we have a big opportunity in themuseum field to build more
(14:17):
empathy and to our work, ourresearch and also just the way
that we are designing ourmembership programs, the way
that we are messaging ouraudiences, to just build
stronger relationships and moreloyalty.
Lyn Wineman (14:36):
I just am in love with you talking about empathy
and the idea of combining dataand empathy.
I think that is such a powerfuldual threat there.
Right, because having data toback up your decision making,
but really having anunderstanding for your audience
(14:57):
and I think even the differentunique niches within your
audience is so important, Rosie,so I love that that's part of
your framework.
Now I imagine, with all of thiswork and thinking about
innovation, you know we'reseeing a lot of change across
the board in marketing.
(15:19):
How do you see the landscape ofmuseum engagement evolving in
the future?
And two part question whatwould FIVESEED's role be in
helping museums innovate?
Rosie Siemer (15:33):
So I mean, first and foremost, I think museums
today have found themselves in ahighly competitive landscape
when it comes to options forleisure and education and kind
of creating shared experiences.
You know, museums are competingnot only with other museums and
(15:53):
other arts and cultureactivities.
They're competing with Netflixand YouTube and a lot of
for-profit immersive experienceslike Meow Wolf.
So I think museums really needto get better at understanding
audience needs and then meetingaudiences where they are.
(16:15):
So there's a lot of discussionin the museum field right now
about how the museum experiencemight need to change to better
meet folks where they are.
But from an engagementstandpoint, and when I'm
thinking about audiencedevelopment, I'm really thinking
(16:35):
about first seek to understand,and so we need to really be
listening deeply with not justour current audiences, but our
potential audiences, becausethat's one of the things that
museums are challenged withright now as well as reaching
out to people who maybe haven'tvisited yet.
(16:59):
And for those people who mightnot, you know, like, as an
example in one of the, there'ssome really great research out
there that some of the biggestbarriers to participation in
museums is not cost.
It's actually like time is ahuge barrier.
(17:19):
And then it's barriers liketransportation.
It's barriers like not feelingthat that place is for me.
Museums have a long way to go,I think, and being more
responsive to audience needs andas far as our role, I think we
(17:44):
are here to be a partner and afacilitator, to help encourage
museums to think differentlyabout how they might more
intentionally design theirofferings and then really kind
of bring that research forwardso that we are making decisions
based on data and we're not justmaking assumptions about who
(18:08):
our audiences are and what theycare about.
Lyn Wineman (18:10):
Wow, that makes a lot of sense.
You know, there's so muchinformation on the different
generations that I do think it'seasy to just assume that just
this generation or thatgeneration may or may not be
interested, or they may beinterested in certain things.
But when you really break itdown to your audience and you
(18:31):
have empathy for them, thatcould really change the game.
So I think it's fantastic thatyou're doing that.
You know, Rosie, we at Kid Glovwork with a lot of nonprofit
organizations, and some of thoseare museums and cultural
organizations, and sometimes weget some pushback that oh,
(18:55):
they're not really nonprofits.
Do you find that, and how doyou address that misconception,
if you do find it?
Rosie Siemer (19:03):
There's quite a bit of research out there that
shows not only does kind of thebroader general public not
necessarily know that museumsare nonprofits, but even
visitors and even some membersmay not know that a museum is a
(19:24):
nonprofit, and this is, I think,one of those fundamental
challenges that museums have.
It's how do we educate audiencesabout why we need their support
, how their donation or theirmembership, even their
visitation, makes a difference.
(19:45):
That's all about communicatingimpact, but there's a lot of
noise out there and I think formuseums it's becoming
increasingly difficult to cutthrough the clutter, to be top
of mind.
So I don't know that I have agreat answer just yet for how to
(20:09):
solve this, but I think at thefoundational level, it's about
communication and it's aboutmessaging and making sure that
we are not again not makingassumptions about what people
know, because we know we're veryclose to the organization and
(20:31):
so we don't always think abouthow our audiences may not just
be thinking about us day in andday out.
They may not know everything sowe have to do a better job of
educating.
I also like to encourage ourclients to think about how they
(20:56):
might set expectations forvisitors and members in a way
that we expect them to supportus.
We expect them to share withtheir friends and family about
the wonderful experience they'vehad.
We want to encourage thosetypes of behaviors.
Lyn Wineman (21:17):
That's great.
I think most people wouldprobably be blown away to really
know the cost that it takes tofacilitate a museum experience.
I think that sometimes, maybewhen we're paying the fee, we
feel like, oh, this is kind ofexpensive, but really for a live
(21:41):
type of cultural experience,that's not an easy thing to put
together.
So, Rosie, I love talking aboutyour research and your work and
your book.
For our listeners who'd like tolearn more, how can they find
information about FIVESEED andthe work that you're doing?
Rosie Siemer (22:04):
Yeah, so our website is currently under
development, but when thewebsite coming out soon at five
seed.
c om.
But in the meantime you coulddefinitely check out membership
innovationcom.
That's where we post a lot ofour research findings and
insights and things that areswirling in our heads.
(22:27):
And also for those who areinterested in getting more
involved in the museum community, you can always connect with me
and my broader team at Museumsas Progress.
This is a community of practiceand you can find us at
museumprogress.
com.
Lyn Wineman (22:47):
That's amazing.
We will put links to both ofthose websites in the show notes
for this on kidglov.
com, so anybody that wants tolink directly to those, we'll
get that in there.
And good luck on the newwebsite.
I know that's a big project andwhen it's done that will be
fantastic.
So, Rosie, I'm going to switchgears here and I'm going to ask
(23:09):
you my favorite question.
This episode, by the way, isour 190th episode of Agency for
Change.
Can you believe that?
Yeah, e're nearing into 200there, but I have always asked
this question because I'minspired by motivational quotes
(23:30):
and I would love to have a RosieSeamer original quote for our
listeners.
Rosie Siemer (23:38):
Okay, Well, I guess, okay, I guess my words of
wisdom quote might be somethingthat's a bit of a blend between
two ideas that have alwaysinspired me.
So I would say follow yourbliss and make your own luck.
Lyn Wineman (23:57):
Ooh, follow your bliss and make your own luck.
I love that.
That is fantastic, and sincewe're just about past St.
Patrick's Day, that seems likea good St.
Patrick's Day quote as well.
So, Rosie, as we wrap up thisgreat conversation and I'm so
interested in the work thatyou're doing I'd like to ask one
(24:20):
last question, and that is whatis the most important thing you
would like our listeners toremember about the work that
you're doing?
Rosie Siemer (24:30):
Oh gosh.
Well, I think I guess pushbackagainst conventional wisdom.
You know, really kind of maketime and space for
experimentation and challengingsome of your assumptions.
I think that's true in our kindof day-to-day membership
(24:52):
program management practice, butalso when we're thinking about
how we want to engage with ouraudiences, how we go about
hearing from them and reallyjust to think about how we can
be more intentional in designingexperiences and from my
(25:14):
perspective, membership can dothat.
You know, we can be moreintentional about what we want
our membership program to do forthe organization and also what
we want the program to feel likeand be for our members.
Lyn Wineman (25:31):
I think the idea of making time and space for
experimentation is a reallyimportant way of life so that is
just great advice, Rosie.
Rosie, I fully believe theworld needs more people like you
.
We need more museums, more artsand cultural organizations, and
(25:53):
I'm glad that you're out therehelping them on our behalf.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Rosie Siemer (26:01):
Thank you so much, Lyn.
It's been such a treat and I'mhonored to have a chance to
share a little bit aboutsomething that I care very
deeply about.
Lyn Wineman (26:10):
What a great conversation.
Thank you so much.
Announcer (26:16):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast To hear all ourinterviews with those who are
making a positive change in ourcommunities or to nominate a
changemaker you'd love to hearfrom visit kidglov.
com at k-i-d-g-l-o-v dot com toget in touch, as always.
If you like what you've heardtoday, be sure to rate, review,
subscribe and share.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
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